Youtube comments of Jon Smith (@jonsmith5058).
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Vice Handler just to add to your ass whooping, who invented the internet you are using right now? The British.
Who invented the rockets that carry nukes, basically the Germans. Who discovered DNA, Crick and Watson, who discovered the theory of relativity, Einstein, evolution Darwin. Stephen Hawking was the most emminent scientist of our time (self quoted as being saved by socialism and socialised medicine). We can keep going and going.
The yanks have achieved stuff sure, but, just like in the Olympics half the reason they have any success is sheer population size meaning they are bound to stumble across talent. Really per capita, they should have achieved more, sort yourselfs out and get educated yanks.
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@hiyadroogs are you having a laugh? Where are you getting these lies from?
The pounds value dropped like a stone after the Brexit vote and never recovered, I personally lost around £14,000 because of it.
Business absolutely left in droves, EU businesses absolutely did not relocate, maybe a couple of isolated cases did but in general things moved to the mainland or didnt start in the UK.
Businesses also absolutely did close, go talk to some of those fishermen people used to care about, many went out of business because the red tape made it unsustainable and the supply chain went to shit.
You claim Trump ‘would have’ given us a trade deal, well he isn’t exactly reliable and it didnt happen, so we are back of the queue, we didnt get one.
Plus if we get a free trade deal with the US we defacto have to have a hard border either in Ireland or in the Irish sea as we cannot also have one with the EU. They are mutually exclusive.
So yeah… where are you getting your ‘facts’ from?
Did you really see Brexit as a success?
Besides, 49% of people voted against, their views shouldnt get veto’d, its fine to argue some pro EU stuff. A hard brexit wasnt a smart idea, we should have found a middle ground.
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@dragalochta4531 Your cognitive dissonance is astounding.
Firstly your definition of freedom is narrow. The UN bans a bunch of things, you couldnt own marujana until recently, flipping kinder eggs are banned for ‘child safety’.
So you arent free to own what you want at all.
Freedom is a complex, nebulous concept and by all scientific accounts the US is lacking in many many areas.
I live in a much freer, happier, safer country, we dont need guns to keep our politicians in check, we dont have rampant crime, people arent scared and exploited.
Besides your notion that more guns could’ve helped is absurd, firstly there are tons of self inflicted gun wounds. That would rise, more crazy kids could do impulsive things and more people would mistakenly shoot when they didnt need to.
No, research doesnt support your claim. More guns makes it worse. The USA has more guns than Europe, and way more gun crime and murder.
Your gun free zones dont work because they are on a small scale, voluntary basis meaning any bad actor can just wander in.
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@Bob Saunders Seriously? Seriously?
The whole Brexit campaign was built upon what if this and maybe that. Many of it proven lies.
The EU aren't commenting on it because its not their business, it would be diplomatically quite inappropriate for them to do so really, interfering with a sovereign states politics like that. Unionists would go apeshit at them. Would you, for example, think its at all appropriate for the UK to start saying openly 'Catalonia, if you leave we'll trade with you, provide this etc etc'? Of course not, it would incredibly inflammatory and inappropriate.
For the SNP not having a plan, if they don't have one when they have the referendum then I'll agree with you. For now its fine that there is no clear vision. Sturgeon I believe has said many times, there WILL be a plan. I actually think it makes sense to not get bogged down in debates like that until the referendum is planned to be honest as it would be an easy point of attack for Unionists who want to deflect, delay and confuse the issue.
So yeah, let them have the vote, if there is no plan, have a go. For now thats a lame duck excuse, as is the one about currency (since there already is separation and other countries have changed currency entirely, I live in one that did) and them having a 300 year history isn't relevant since ROI broke off and did fine.
The excuses you make for it being hard are fictitious or flimsy.
Even if its a mistake, its still their mistake to make. England should but its nose out let them figure it out for themselves. The EU didn't meddle in the UK's Brexit referendum, England shouldn't meddle in Scotland's, but it will cause it still wants to control it.
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@entropy5431 have you ever driven a boat buddy?
You can’t just throw a rope at another boat and take them where you want nor ‘block the road’ to stop them.
In practical terms the French can escort them, board them or sink them….
They are doing the most ethical thing by escorting them and helping if they are in distress.
If the boat sinks and the French take them onboard then take them to the UK then yeah, ok, thats an issue but show me that happening.
As for the EU just ‘letting in illegals’ um, no.
The EU had migration policies. The people you call ‘illegals’ are claiming refugee status, now some or many of these may be bogus claims and those people trying to illegal emmigrate in bad faith, BUT, under the Dublin convention (I believe) we need to offer them asylum and investigate their claim.
The UK has the same obligation and, like I said, gets far far less of these people than the rest of the EU. Germany takes the lions share already.
The UK should be ashamed of villifying these people. The ones who are discovered as illegal get sent home.
Others do not cause this evil social decline or cost as you claim.
Annecdotally, my ex partner was born in Iraq. Her family fled to Europe when she was a child, she grew up in Europe and became a human rights lawyer in the UN helping people, the stories of the desperate people she daily fought for were very moving. She is a better person than either of us here.
I also know some twins who each summer run a summer camp, its aimed for underprivledged kids and refugees.
They told me a story of one of their kids who would wake up each night screaming cause of her nightmares that Gadaffi was bombing her house. A kid thats about 9 years old shouldnt have to deal with that and we shouldnt treat them like leppers.
Your comment on the economic and social cost is ill informed.
Refugees do not cost us a significant amount and its a worthy cause, its sucks some illegals try to abuse it but it doesnt excuse our moral duty to help refugees. Most work hard and enrich the country and contribute more in taxes than they cost.
Likely you’ll be the type of person who bemoans things like ‘white people won’t be a majority’ and ‘Birmingham will be 70% Muslim’ or something.
Now I hear that concern of Islamic culture taking overa city. However look at where these people came from.
Thats not from boats of refugees, illegal immigrants or EU migration.
Its from external, legal migration the UK allowed. The UK always retained control of migration from outside the EU.
They let a bunch of people in who settled here and this is the effect. They are now British citizens and here to stay.
The UK caused the situation, not the EU.
Take responsibility if you don’t like it and stop blaming France for realistically, is a tiny tiny number of people.
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@colincampbell4261 people absolutely do.
I’ve found someone sleeping on my property (a boat) and after just 2 nights he’d broken a panel, been spitting all over the floor, stolen from the fridge, and damaged the floor. Thats just a personal annecdote.
There are plenty examples of squatters occupying a space, smashing doors and windows, ruining furniture, spray painting walls.
Literally just look online for videos.
The ‘Cant pay we’ll take it away’ show on channel 4 years back featured them removing some squatters from a school that got left empty for a month and they caused hundreds of thousands of pounds of damage.
There is clearly 2 types of squatters, some, like this crowd, who clearly care for their surroundings, and the other, more infamous kinds who are scumbags who trash it.
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@josephkerrigan733 maybe Hamas won’t listen, maybe they deserve to all die, but the question is how many innocent lives should be lost in the crossfire? 10 civilians for every Hamas killed? 100? Does the math change if Israeli kids are the collateral damage?
People calling for peace are pointing out that the death toll cannot be justified, even to kill Hamas, so the only humane option is to try to talk to them, its extremely distasteful but at some point, in war, some killings must go unpunished for peace. Consider the Americans nuking and firebombing the Japanese civilians, was that just? Should they be destroyed for the apalling loss of life and for revenge?
Palestinians need to be given hope, their choices are die by Israeli bombs and bullets, as they have for decades, or die fighting Hamas to get rid of their terrorist dictators. Why do you think any of them would eradicate Hamas when that puts them back under the blade of an Israeli sword ready to steal their homes and cut their throats.
Give Palestinians hope to have their nation back and live free and maybe they’d actually fight to remove Hamas themselves and forge a peaceful future, that relies also in Israel changing out of being a bloodthirsty vicious evil nation also.
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@dm0065 Nono, its way more insidious than that.
What they do is basically outsource certain things to private companies. Some of this isn't new, for example cleaning services have been outsourced for decades. A large company provides all the staff and services to clean the hospital. The hospital has zero responsibility for hiring, managing, supplies etc. To make more profit often the standards drop and staff are given too much to do at a decent standard. I've seen this first hand where our cleaners just didn't turn up because someone was off sick and they were just given someone elses workload ontop of theirs, they were always short staffed.
Same happened with maintenance and they have minimum costs for doing things, we actually migrated from an old Victoria hospital to a new PFI build and part of the PFI contract was all maintenance would be handled by the PFI owner (outsourced) so when I called up one of our maintenance guys (who uses to be in house) to drill a hole in the wall to hand a clock from he told me that we should find something else cause its gonna cost £85, the minimum callout charge. Previously he'd just pop over with his drill and sort it.
Now what is happening is they are also outsourcing medical services, things like elective surgeries, xrays etc etc. Private companies looooove this services because they are standardised, and standardised stuff is very easy to get efficient and maximise profit. They don't take over things like A+E because they are a black hole of money, you always need a bunch of staff there if there is an emergency and its so volatile it just sucks money in. Hospitals typically cover this costs by being funded more than they need per patient for things like elective stuff and running at a loss in places like A+E, the money is moved around and the hospital stays afloat, just about.
But when you outsource elective stuff to a private company they take those profits from elective surgeries and leave the A+E department to rot and the hospital to just go deep in the red.
They also do things like not provide adequate equipment or support for post surgery care, we used to get calls from Bupa patients who had a new knee or hip, had a lovely room and great food, but were sent home with nothing and couldn't even use the toilet. We'd then, for free since we couldnt get funding for them as they weren't treated by us, provide them equipment and assessments to make sure they could cope and not hurt themselves. This should be covered in the cost of a patient getting a new hip, but Bupa just took that as profit.
(Just incase you don't know how NHS funding works, a hospital is paid by the local health authority for every patient they treat, so lets say replacing a hip costs £10,000 then for each one the hospital does they get that amount of funding, this is what allows NHS hospitals to compete against each other for patients to drive standards up and give us the choice to go to the best hospital).
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@Conservator. Obviously one day that system will collapse, as all systems do. Within our lifetimes, much harder to say as the world has changed massively in a short time.
In the short term however, no, the UK will not change, the propaganda machine is hard there, they make out that society would collapse if there is a coalition to be discussed and that the parliament would become inept and constantly deadlocked as, without a majority, no party could get anything done and the only way to have a strong government is to have a single party in power.
Obviously thats all nonsense, but people lap it up and believe it strongly, the major parties who have the power to change this will never willingly do so as its within their interest to keep the system as it is, they'll loose alot of power and control with PR.
The only way I see it happening is an increasing erosion of the left (as the Labour party in the UK is a shambles) and then a leftist surge where the Tories don't get a majority and a number of smaller left parties get together and, because it is in their interest, change the system. That being said, they'd need to still persuade the public to do so. Its an uphill battle for sure.
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@d_dave7200 you’re still being arrogant and condescending. By saying things like charity is ‘not entirely the domain of religious people’ you are basically inferring religious people do charity and atheists just help.
Its frankly insulting. Especially since you think you have the high ground on conscience.
Charity is charity. Its done by all sorts of backgrounds and atheists arent doing it for a reward from a god. Its not the domain of religious people or not.
You want people who know about charity involved, cool, then lets get Lords in there that get their title based on running or helping great charity organizations with their faith or lack of not being part of the equation.
I’d argue the ‘conscience’ of the crusty old white anglican church members actually often can hold us back also, and issues such as gay rights, trans rights, womens rights, abortion rights and sexual health they are often stuck in an outdated mindset resulting pain and suffering in some of those groups.
As I said, represent a plurality of faiths but also representative of the population so it should not have too much influence.
Ego check yourself, religious people are not, by default, more moral than non-religious, or more charitable, or responsible for more good.
There are a great number of selfish, petty, arrogant and immoral religious folk around, same with atheists.
Stop thinking you are ‘better’ somehow, cause all you’ll do is piss the rest of us off with that condescension and we’ll put you in your place.
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@holypaladin4657 saying that the UK doesnt need the EU to prosper is like saying you dont need both legs to run a marathon. Its absolutely true but you’ve gone and made it much harder by lopping off your leg.
I think you are incredibly naive to the power the UK had in the EU and that funding we paid in, in turn benefited us. There is a huge deficit now in research grants and places like Cornwall are left with a huge lack of funding (they counted as an impoverished area so the EU gave them money).
The benefits of that trading bloc and frictionless trade were huge, just like having two legs in a marathon.
As for the argument of ‘but countries like Greece cost us’, well yes, true. However thats part of the deal is making a trading bloc, it only works from the bloc maintaining standards and all growing. It sucks sometimes that you need to give more help to a neighbour but keeping them healthy helps stop you from collapsing also.
Together ape strong, the Brexit argument is the UK is strong alone, which it never has been in its history, infact if you know your history you’ll see how the isolation ideas have been a disaster in the past and how in the late 40’s and 50’s Britain trying to ‘go it alone’ was awful.
You’ve been conned by the Brexit lies and the romantic ideas of a strong powerful independent Britain that was always a unicorn, the fact you claim the EU was spiteful when they basically bent over backwards to try to accomodate every possible Brexit that wouldnt violate their trade rules shows your dogmatic view on this rather than objective. The UK goverment kept asking for something impossible and tried to break international law, its a wonder any country still want to deal with us.
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@James-sh4zf I worked in the NHS from 2007 to 2015.
It would take too long to list all the jobs I had there and not sure why that is relevant?
As for moving on from Blair and Iraq, funny cause he’s back and promoting Starmer (didnt support Corbyn) and Starmer loves Blair and has basically brought all his politics back.
You arrogantly claim that I havent seen Starmers politics. I have, I watch it every day, I watch PMQs whenever they are on (meaning I can listen myself and decide) and listen to various political commentators to gain other perspectives.
The fundamental difference is you believe the lie that Starmer and Labour will save the NHS, its absurd, especially if you actually knew how collossal the damage was from 2007 to now. The amount of radical reform he’d need to do is impossible from him as its not just the NHS, its all the social services that were gutted forcing people into hospitals, without those back the NHS cannot recover.
So you see, we both know the Tories will continue to kill the NHS.
However I believe Labour, under Starmer, will placate many of you who think he’ll save the NHS but will still set it up to fail giving even more ammo to right wingers who want to abolish it by claiming even more money doesnt fix it also resulting its in death.
So I actually choose the third option, knowing neither party will save it and supporting other progressive parties to try to shift our politics away from apathy and tolerating the lesser evil and back to the aspirational, radical changes we had in 1945
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@Rachel_M_ listen boomer, you are ranting.
I already stated, I get the balance, I just reject your skew of it.
His funding of the NHS doesnt expunge war crimes.
You wanna talk about being there, I’ve been to Iraq, seen the damage done by that war, spoken to locals, have you?
I was also in the NHS during Blairs tenure, leaving a couple of years after the Tories cut funding.
Blair approved the funding, the NHS workers are the ones who actually battled those things though.
Why dont you get some perspective, writing checks doesnt mean you take credit.
You think Kennedy sent a man into space and to the moon or the NASA engineers and astronauts?
Why dont you get some perspective.
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@Bob Saunders Mate, people said the same of Brexit, there is too much integration, you can't just break away.
They can if they want to, at the end of the day big businesses will find a way to make it work, Scotland can find a way to thrive, maybe they will go the ROI and be a tax haven too. Thats up to them.
As for growing discontent on the continent. Hate the break it to ya buddy, but I'm an expat living on the continent, that anti-EU sentiment and the idea that the union is ripping at the seams and collapsing is propaganda brought to you by the hard right Brexiteers.
The EU is strong and remains so, Euroscepticism on a whole has been falling since 2015, there have been gains in hardcore right wing leave parties in countries like France for example, but I think thats more that they have a party to vote for now rather than its a more popular idea.
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@Bob Saunders Fine, ignore the example of the Romans.
How about the Irish? They split and financially are doing well, quality of life is good, they are happily part of the EU.
The ROI splitting from Ireland and the UK has worked well for them in general and thats despite the Troubles. Scotland wouldn't have something like that since they don't have a religious divide in that way.
If Ireland could split 100 years ago, when there were still banks, international trade treaties and taxes, shared currency etc, all these things you are claiming would be such a big problem, why can't Scotland do the same thing 100 years later?
As for planning before diving into the deep end, well how ironic, since if England hadn't done that with Brexit we likely wouldn't be having this independence debate right now. They planned nothing, got no consensus on what leave meant (would we still have freedom of movement or goods for example) and ran ahead with it.
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@Bob Saunders Gosh yes, imagine breaking up a Union that lasted 300 years, I mean the Romans cancelled the planned breakup of their Empire because it was so hard to imagine all those countries separating after 1,000 years right? Right.....?
Then of course there is Ireland, its a good job they cancelled the partitioning of Ireland into North and South back in 1921 and the subsequent leaving of the UK that the ROI would have done because they had been in the union for 200 years and have been one county as Ireland for what, maybe 500 years....
Oh wait, that happened, a country that had been in the Union for hundreds of years did leave, and look, they have coped pretty well. The main issue has been religious conflict, something that doesn't exist between Scotland and England.
What a stupid reason to think it won't happen as a country already did this within the last 100 years!! Stop listening to the 'we can't do it cause its too hard' propaganda, its nonsense.
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@TheRagdollrejects No, what I'm doing is asserting you are the type of person that doesn't give a shit if your neighbours house is on fire as long as you are fine aswell as removing yourself from any responsibility.
The UK is responsible, its a representative democracy, I was against the war too but my country did it and as a citizen I must accept that as a country we are responsible. Your selfish attitude towards asylum seekers says what it needs to, you only care about yourself. Someone needs to help them, but not me.
Its precisely that arrogant attitude that prevents any deal with the EU, which is the point. Far too many Brexiteers have this entitled attitude that they are the ones in charge, they are the ones who should have all the control, power and clout and other nations must help themselves.
Its contrary to the fundamental idea of the common marketplace which is about co-operating with each other for the greater good.
So no, the EU isnt making the UK capitulate. Its saying if you want to be part of this co-operation then co-operate. The UK is the one trying to make the EU capitulate by refusing to negotiate, running out the clock and using Ireland as a bargaining chip.
But sure, go on removing responsibility for fixing issues in the world and blaming the EU for everything wrong. I'm sure it makes it easier to have such a selfish mindset to lie to yourself so you can sleep at night.
I hope you're one of the boomers (since you have the attitude of one) so in a couple of decades we can stop having to deal with all your selfish attitudes and get on with fixing the world.
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@TheRagdollrejects Nah man, I'm explaining why the narrative of the UK wanting a 'fair deal' and the EU wanting them to 'capitulate' is nonsense.
The EU has a fair and reasoned position which I explained, they aren't trying to throw their weight around. Their goals and limitations are clear. The UK is demanding a unicorn, they don't want a fair deal.
You can try to ignore the damage the UK has done in the middle east, but you are in denial. We have a responsibility. But whats more, even if we had nothing to do with it we have responsibilities as humans, the Syrians fleeing to Europe are innocent. Trying to claim that there is mass rape etc is a cop out, the vast majority of asylum seekers are innocent, lets work on the crap ones doing that shit stuff and not throw out the rest.
Plus, again, if the EU could dictate to the UK about immigrants then they would have forced them to take their share and get them out of France across the channel, when I mentioned Germany taking more, thats per capita. Per capita the UK has taken a shameful amount. The UK controls its immigration and asylum cases already.
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@TheRagdollrejects Yeah sure, ignore my points about the EU being reasonable and how what the UK wants is unreasonable and spin with other topics like immigration, which the UK already has pretty much absolute control over.
Speaking of asylum seekers, the UK is shameful, they have contributed so much damage to the areas where many come from and take so few. Germany have taken far more of their fair share, the UK should have stepped up and taken responsibility.
These are innocent people displaced by war, and yeah I know something about it, my last partner was born in Baghdad and came to the Netherlands as an asylum seeker as a child, she's now a human rights lawyer for the UN and helps other refugees back in Iraq. She's a better person than you or me, the toxic attitude people like you have to immigrants disgusts me and you use false narratives like them using up the NHS so you don't feel like such a scumbag for dehumanising these people. There is zero reason to leave the EU when it comes to asylum seekers, if anything France has even less incentive to stop them crossing the channel now (France also shit the bed with them so don't start gaslighting that I support their handling of it).
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