Youtube comments of wvu05 (@wvu05).
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I ran for office in 2006 (WV House of Delegates). My district was pretty small (roughly 6500 voters in 24 precincts in part of one county). When you are in that campaign bubble, it is easy to convince yourself that you will win, because you won't encounter many who will flat out tell you they're voting against you, so I was confident of victory that night. When the polls closed, the candidates gathered at the courthouse waiting for the results. After the fourth batch of preceints came in, I knew that there weren't nearly enough votes left to make up the deficit (if they had said which precincts were coming in and I saw that I wasn't hitting my numbers, I would have known much sooner), and knowing that the last batch of results would come in soon, I told the press that I would make a statement and be available for interviews after all of the precincts came in. When the numbers came in, I congratulated my opponent and wished him the best of luck for the people of our county and our state. I gave a radio and newspaper interview where I freely conceded and only had good things to say about my opponent, even though we didn't agree on much of anything. I get more than most people here how hard a concession can be, but it is the right thing to do and your responsibility to the winner and to democracy. I have no respect for these spoiled brats who refuse. If I could at 27, what is your excuse?
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@tomfox6084 Clearly, it has been a while since you did. Snape was knocked unconscious before Sirius and Remus had the chance to reveal the truth. The Dementor's Kiss, while some argue may be worse than death, it is not execution. Based on what Snape knew at the time, he wanted to see an escaped serial killer and the person aiding and abetting that serial killer punished to the maximum extent of the law. Far different than "wanting to murder them," as you described, and he only revealed himself after Snape justified what he did to Snape 18 years earlier.
And, while when Snape was unconscious and being taken out of the Shrieking Shack, Sirius repeatedly and intentionally hit his head against the wall, when the situation was reversed, Snape (when no one was looking) gently and safely removed Sirius.
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@katec3963 I am not advocating that everyone makes the same money, but you seem to have a very unusual idea on what it means to make the money. The highest CEO to worker pay in the United States (not including Goodwill, which is a whole other level of messed up based on the way they get around minimum wage laws) is 6000:1. Do you honestly believe that any CEO does more for the company in one day than the average worker does in 16 1/2 years? That is the kind of thing that can be contained simply by making a rule capping how much a company can deduct a CEO salary/stock option package. The company can still make such a payment if it wants, but the government won't subsidize it. There could also be rules prohibiting executives from sitting on each other's boards to avoid conflicts of interest when setting compensation packages. Other countries do just fine without such disparities, and it is far worse in my country than yours, so why is such outrageous disparity justified?
Also, as to the alternatives, just because anyone can doesn't mean that everyone can. Someone will still have to be a janitor, or an orderly, or stock shelves, etc. Shouldn't work have the dignity of a livable wage to go with it? Shouldn't we value work?
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@jackhammer3423 If you have to pay or tax time off work to get it, it is absolutely a poll tax. If you allow someone to use a more exhaustive list including things like a lease, mortgage payment book, tax records, utility bills, etc., that is fine. In my adopted home state, when they pushed this law ten years ago (in the words of the then-House Majority Leader, so Romney could win the state), it was estimated that 9% of adults statewide and 18% in Philadelphia didn't have an acceptable ID... all to prevent something that they admitted they couldn't find any examples of.
Oh, and the most cruel provision of the law? Even disabled voters who were homebound were expected to go to the courthouse to show their ID in order to vote absentee. Do you agree with that?
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@LifeStrike2030 First of all, I have run for offiice (WV House of Delegates, 2006), so how many offices have you run for?
Second of all, Green Party organization is notoriously poor because of the obsession with getting to 5% to get that sweet, sweet matching fund cash. Never mind the fact that the only independent or third party movement to get 5% or more in successive elections was Perot, and he got less than half the vote the second time around. (The next closest was the Socialist Party going from 6.1% in 1912 to 4.9% in 1916.) Never mind that Greens have tried for over 50 years and never topped 2.74%
The Green Party is notorious for focusing its efforts on the top of the ballot at the expense of down ballot races, even when rules help them out. In Philadelphia, the Green Party ran a candidate in 2015 for at-large seats on city council. The logic was that voters only get to choose five, the top seven get elected, and everyone knows that the bottom Democratic candidate will more than double the top Republican, so use one of your votes to get us on City Council. The candidate got 11,000 votes, with 38,000 being the cut off. I only found out about it a few days before the election seeing a postcard at the train station explaining her strategy.
In 2019, several other third parties got the same idea, and a Working Families Party candidate finished in the running. Four years later, both Working Families candidates won, reducing Republicans to the third party on city council (14-2-1, with Republicans winning one seat in NE Philly). Where were Greens the last two municipal elelections? Nowhere to be seen. This should have been a layup, and they didn't even try. Funny how they try hardest in races where their efforts help Republicans.
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He stopped working on me when he came to the 2006 West Virginia Jefferson-Jackson Dinner, gave an underwhelming speech, and couldn't leave fast enough. I went to five of them before I moved to PA, and of the keynote speakers (Edwards, Mikulski, Albright, Mark Warner, and Obama), Obama was the only elected official who didn't have time for the people who paid for tickets or worked to set things up. He had time for the people who gave the maximum $1000 to the party, though. Then, to hear him running for President and complaining about money in politics, I knew that he wasn't who he said he was.
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@44hawk28 If there is evidence of all of this malfeasance, why do Trump's lawyers admit that there isn't when they are in a place where they can't lie? You can lie to Tucker Carlson with impunity, but not a judge.
And how could someone lose when they are several points ahead in several key states on Election Night? Let's use a little simple logic. Many states had Republican legislatures that refused to let counties begin the count of absentee and mail-in voting until Election Day (my adopted home state of Pennsylvania even had the governor ask the legislature to pass a law to allow them to open the ballots early to speed up the count, but they refused to even do that). One side is being encouraged to vote by mail, and the other side insists that voting by mail is a scam. Of course, the vast majority of those who vote by mail will be on that side (in Pennsylvania, where this was the first election with no excuse absentee voting, nearly 80% of all mail-in votes were for Biden, and he won mail-in votes in all 67 counties despite only winning 13 counties overall), and when that is nearly half of the vote, it's not a stretch of the imagination at all.
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@dcaseng What "Medicare for All movement"? What have you actually done to build support for Medicare for All? Facebook comments don't count.
And all those marches that were supposed to make this big splash? I am on multiple mailing lists for the sponsors in Philadelphia, and I never heard a thing about it until someone complained that Nina Turner would have an event ten days before her election, so now she's a sellout, too.
And AOC changed her position because she realized that it was counterproductive. She probably wasn't familiar with the tactic of Catch and Release, which completely invalidates show votes as a strategy. There were one of three possible results in relation to the sponsor list:
1) The list matched the vote and confirmed what we already knew.
2) The Soft Yes members become Hard No, thus meaning that we are now farther away from passage.
3) Catch and Release is invoked, and the members in lefty districts who oppose it vote Yes to fend off a primary challenge. Then, if it ever actually has a chance of becoming law, they'll vote No, thus meaning that you are opening yourself to snakes in the grass.
That's the difference between AOC and Dore. She learns and adjusts accordingly. And she didn't support the candidate who called Medicare for All "un-American" in an interview with Anderson Cooper multiple times in the same interview, so it was no slip of the tongue.
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@katec3963 As far as roads not getting fixed, that depends on where you go. As far as foreign aid, less than 1% of the federal budget goes to that purpose, but "All our money goes overseas."
Yeah, we liberals are retarded. We're so retarded that we think cutting taxes for rich people will lead to increased revenue and more money for poor people, even though the economy grew faster when taxes on the rich were higher. Oh, wait. That's conservatives. Well, we must have been the ones who voted for a TV billionaire with a history of not paying people in the hopes that he would cut tax on the poor, raise them on the rich, give healthcare to everyone for less money, all while not touching Social Security and Medicare only to find him doing or trying to do the opposite of all of those things. No, that's not us. We talk about how things were so much better 50 years ago, but then vote for the exact opposite. Not us. Oh, we must be the ones who vote for vote for people who insist that government doesn't work only to spend their time in office proving that it doesn't while enriching their donors and then think that no government can perform basic functions even though plenty do. No, that's not us. But, yeah, we're the dim bulbs.
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Andrew Yang got kicked off the Ohio ballot because he didn't bother to submit a sheet with his petition drive saying that what office he wanted to run for. Campaigning 101 will tell you that you must follow the rules to the letter to qualify.
I ran for office. West Virginia did not have a petition drive for major parties, but you had to pay a filing fee and fill out a form that included the phonetic spelling of your name so audio files could be created. I filed on the first day the window opened, and there was a bit of confusion about whether I filed at the Secretary of State's office because it was a state office (House of Delegates) or the County Clerk's office (because my district was entirely contained in part of one county). I filed with the Secretary of State, and a week and a half later, I found out that it needed to go to the County Clerk. So, I drove the 40 miles to the Capitol to get my refund and then drove to the County Clerk the next day to fix it. If you are prompt, make a good faith effort, and follow the rules, you will get on the ballot. They didn't follow the rules, and they know that the consequences of failing to do so was not getting on the ballot, so they did not earn their place on the ballot.
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Alabama Man 2.0 "Whatever small amount of power we have"
My God, you right wingers are pathetic. When you control the White House, both Houses of Congress, the Supreme Court, the majority of governorships, and the majority of state legislatures, "we only have a little power." Which is it, are you weak or are you strong?
"If we try to push through a Republican nominee in an election year, you can hold it against me." Lindsey Graham, 2016, before sticking his head of Trump's butt
Numbers are besides the point. I get that your party has no principles other than the pursuit of power for its own sake, but people would at least respect your honesty more if you just admitted it.
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@blaze556922 I never understood that at all. The baby boom generation was the first one whose parents actually made sure that they had the best they could afford. I am paying way more in rent than I otherwise would so my daughter can get a quality education, because I don't want her to get to high school age and have to go to a school with curtains falling off the rod because they're all torn and whatever the equivalent at the time will be of having an Apple II plus in a chemistry lab in 1998 or doing a computer class on an Apple IIe in 1992.
Then again, when I invite my parents and my niece to visit (my brother refused, saying that he didn't want to drive in the big city, even though I now live in the suburbs), my brother's girlfriend is furious that I take her to do fun things because she didn't get to. Well, I didn't get to do a lot of things that I wanted to do growing up, so I'm trying to make sure my daughter can. (Except she wants to go to Disney World, which I can't afford, but at least I take her to a lot of other attractions close by.) If those are things about your childhood that you didn't like, why force them on your child?
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@carlosb5523 They are talking about the fact that a large portion of the population was told that they didn't need to be productive because their needs would be met. The malaise that followed was what Betty Friedan described in The Feminine Mystique.
That being said, I think that you were replying to someone else, because my argument was about Yang wanting to destroy the existing social safety net.
And you can talk about automation all you want, but there are two things that I saw when my family visited last month that tells me that it might not be what Yang says it will be, and another as to why his solution is inadequate if he is correct.
First, the things that suggest the possibility that automation might not be the end of human labor: when my family came to visit, I took my daughter, my niece, and my parents to two different factory tours: Herr's Snack Factory and Visitors Center, and the Martin Guitar Factory Tour. Both places told something quite interesting: there were some places were human hands produced a bottleneck (a lacquer finish for the guitars, and peeling potatoes for the chips), and by automating those processes, they were able to hire more workers than they ever could have hired had those parts of the process been run by human hands. So, it is quite possible that other companies just might find that automation frees up more hands to be used in a more efficient way. After all, at one point in this country, 90% of the population worked on farms. Now, we produce more food than ever.
And why if Yang is correct, his answer will cause more problems: if he is right about 1/3 of the jobs being gone with no replacement, the fact that he also wants to get rid of the existing social safety net and use a regressive tax to pay for it means a very bleak future for most of the population.
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I know what you mean, Ana. I, too, fell for Tulsi's shtick three years ago, and even saw her as a likely successor to Bernie. Then, I saw videos on Peoples War (they have a lot of archival Bernie footage), and I was stunned. Admittedly, seeing her kiss Trump's ring seemed rather odd, so maybe it is a sign of her skill that I just saw that as an eccentricity rather than who she is. That is why, in my small way, I also try to point out that she isn't who people thought she was.
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@sargentpilcher The percentage is 5% among all adults, and senior citizens are nearly three times as likely as the general adult population to get diabetes. In the words of Principal Skinner, "your metabolism will change someday, too, young man." Even without that, there are people who still get it despite diet and exercise. My grandma was a skinny woman, and she got it in her 50s. My uncle knew this, and tried to avoid it. He keeps his weight under control, exercises, the whole deal, and he got it in his late 40s.
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People shouldn't have to choose. Yang calls it a "right of citizenship," but the poor and disabled have to choose. However, the rich don't. Here is an example: if someone gets a $10MM house with an $8MM mortgage and a 3% interest rate, we are talking about a mortgage interest of $240,000. With a top marginal rate of 37%, this means tax savings of $88,800. Why don't they have to choose?
Here's another example of how the "choice" can screw you if you are middle class. Imagine someone making $39,000/year who takes the "freedom dividend." He/she gets laid off. If this person hadn't taken Yang bucks, this person would have been eligible for biweekly unemployment of $900. Let's hope that person has his/her house paid in full, because mortgage could easily by over $700/month, so that person would be screwed, because he/she is limited to $1000. And that is yet another example of how cruel it is to construct a universal basic income that operates at the expense of the existing social safety net.
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I remember when I was in Iraq, and I was talking to someone while guarding the gate, and as we were talking, at one point, I said, "Jesus isn't a conservative, He is a socialist." A day or two later, he must have asked the chaplain about that, because the chaplain said, "Jesus isn't a liberal! 'If you don't work, you don't eat.'" I said, "Sir, if you'll remember, Paul said that, not Jesus, and I didn't say He was a liberal, I said He was a socialist." He was even more shocked and I pointed to the Rich Young Ruler and how the apostles lived after the church was founded with a passage in Acts 2. He said, "That wasn't about conservative or liberal or socialist, or anything, but about the needs of the people" (emphasis his). I responded, "Didn't Marx say 'From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs'?" He just kind of grinned a little as his way of admitting, "Well, you've got me there."
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I remember a few years ago when Manhunt devoted a seasom to how they found the Unabomber. In terms of making TV, they did a good job, but the writers did seem very sympathetic to Kaczynski. At one point, when the linguistic profiler (they focused mainly on the linguistics and the manifesto) meets Kaczynski, he says that the part where the manifesto clicked for him was when there was a red light, and even though no one was around, "I obeyed. I stopped." Really, there was no better way to show how technology enslaces us all than stopping at a red light? That sounds like something I'd expect to hear Sam tear someone apart for saying.
However, while in the middle of a true crime binge, I came upon a show that featured interviews with Kaczynski. Hearing him talk, you realize just what a psychopath he is. Also, the voice was very strange. Not what you'd expect from someone his size.
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@MrMagnaniman No, I just want people to act in accordance with what they say are principles. In my experience, a lot of the talk about "freedom" from libertarians rings hollow, because it often ignores competing claims of freedom or constantly sides with one side over the other, and it ain't working people (i.e., while I would consider Ron Paul a paleoconservative rather than a libertarian, he does use the same buzz words, and he is opposed to anti-trust laws under the Free Association Clause, but he sees no such protection in the First Amendment for workers who want to form a union), or people who want to reap the benefits of society without paying for them. I decided to forego unemployment benefits after my tour because I didn't need the money, while some of the anti-tax and anti-welfare people in my unit gleefully collected them. I also refused to take a housing allowance because I broke my lease when I got activated. Those two decisions probably cost me close to $10,000, but I did it because of a higher principle (don't take what you're not entitled to, and don't ask for what you don't need). Was that "hurting myself," or was that deciding that principles matter and being willing to pay the price?
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@belakthrillby That was as a negotiation to try to get a final package. And your idea is that the MSM will cover it and give it more publicity. The most overarching bill the House passed in the 116th Congress was HR 1, but did it get any press? I heard TMR talk about it far more than TRMS.
The difference of wasting whatever leverage that you have on a bill that you know will fail instead of, as the OP derisively mentioned, pushing for changes to committee assignments and chairs is that with the former, all you have created is bad will, and with the latter you actually gain power.
No, you don't delay it indefinitely. You do actual organizing, and you get more and more sponsors until it develops a critical mass. Then, if the Speaker does not want to put it up for a vote, you push a discharge petition, and once 218 members sign it, it has to come up for a vote. That is how Shays-Meehan (McCain-Feingold in the Senate) came up for a vote when Hastert didn't want it. They had the cards, and they played them. We don't. So, what have you yourself actually done to try to build actual support for the bill. In Philadelphia alone, my way got two more sponsors onto the bill.
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@alwayz247 What am I basing it on? They wrote a book (well, compiled their radars to be more accurate) stating that their goal was to get "left populists and right populists" to work together, "because we agree on almost everything." Even if you take any feint towards economic populism seriously from Saagar, does it affect his vote? No, because Bernie doesn't go after foreigners. He wanted to use the military to break up peaceful protests, and he supported a fascist. And he is a protege of Tucker Carlson.
Krystal Ball spent most of her time on Rising going after Democrats. In the primary, it was easier to hide her true motivations (although seeing her chum up to people like Andrew Yang and Tulsi Gabbard was clearly a red flag in retrospect). However, once the primary was over, she still spent all of her time going after Biden, and so did Saagar. It doesn't take a political scientist to see the end result of that.
She repeatedly sang the praises of Tucker Carlson and wanted to work with him, and she belittled anyone who pointed out the dangers of a coup attempt, even responding in sarcasm to 1/6. She is a disgrace. Just because she is pretty doesn't mean that she isn't doing something incredibly ugly.
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A lot of these people are classic examples of the old adage "born on third, and thinks he hit a triple." I remember one of my ex-wife's friends basically pulled the hating on people less fortunate than them because they were lazy and "didn't work hard like me." His family lived in a massive house and had more electronics than a TV station so he could tinker (when my brother tore an electronic toy or game apart to see how it worked and tried to put it back together, there was no money to replace it, for example), had parents who could fill the gap for his partial scholarship at a school where tuition alone was over $50,000/year, and then his dad gave him the money for a down payment on a house. When I remarked to my then-wife in our apartment, "It must be nice to have your dad have the money to buy a house," she insisted that it was only the down payment. The down payment is the biggest part! Other than that, you may be paying less on a mortgage than a lot of people pay in rent. Even when the privilege is obvious, some people miss it.
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@GenXGamez I am a proud union worker. I did the math. Between the employer and employee share, I pay 32.01% of my income in health insurance [27.6% employer, 4.41% employee]. Under Bernie's plan, that would drop to 8.58% [7% employer, 1.58% employee].
For the longest time, I looked at that gap of 23.43% and thought, "Well, my union might be able to use that savings to get me a raise." After his Workplace Democracy plan has released, this removes all doubt. So, would I rather pay the tax than the premium, knowing that I no longer have to pay deductibles or co-pays, and knowing that I would get a raise in either pay or benefits of over 20%? You bet, I would!
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@jones1618 Except Alaska doesn't have two in the final election. It has four. And a national primary has a whole host of other issues, such as some states having their order set in stone, primary vs. caucus states, and the fact that it would make the primary geometrically more expensive, because instead of focusing on small states (I'm not saying it has to he Iowa and New Hampshire, but small states) where retail skill and organization matter, then you immediately have to start plunking down hundreds of millions of dollars in ads. It would be much better to have a Presidential ranked choice voting with the nominees once that gets settled.
Re: Hillary and Biden winning the nomination, I wanted Bernie to win and I did everything I could to help him (not money or YouTube comments, but real world grassroots organizing), but like it or not, he didn't have the votes. If all it takes is a few well-timed endorsements to derail the effort, it was a pretty hollow lead. In all honesty, given the way the centrists tried to sabotage Biden, of all people, how do we know they wouldn't do it to Bernie and then say this was proof that his ideas failed? Bernie doesn't sit and whine about a raw deal. He uses his gavel to make good things happen. If it is his fate to be our Bryan instead of our FDR, he has done the work and cleared a path for the next generation to lead the movement.
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@CeceMack That's not how it works, especially in a state where Trump won by 39 points. The last non-Manchin Democrat to hold statewide office was John Perdue, who was actually popular for finding literally millions of dollars in unclaimed funds for West Virginians. He lost to Capito's nephew by 13 points in 2020. There are no statewide elections in 2022. The state is losing a Congressional seat, but no Democratic challenger has been within single digits of a Republican incumbent in Congress this century (the closest was 16 points). Republicans have supermajorities in both houses of the legislature. Where is someone going to "pop up and build a reputation"? Do you think that Jennifer Garner is going to move back to West Virginia and win on star power?
When Ben Nelson was in the Senate and actually had a voting record to the right of the most liberal Republican in the Senate for his first eight years in office (Chafee, 2001-07; Snowe, 2007-08), which has never been true of Manchin (Snowe, 2011-12; Collins, 2013-16; Murkowski, 2017-present), and Nelson represented a state where Republicans won by less than half of the margin Manchin has faced the last two cycles, no one gave him anywhere nearly as much grief. I want the most lefty candidate who can win. That is probably Gallego in Arizona. Sadly, it is definitely Manchin in West Virginia, and given that he barely held on against Morrissey in 2018 (who is a total charisma vacuum whose wife was a lobbyist for the leading manufacturer of Oxycontin), quite frankly it would probably take a miracle for him to survive in 2024.
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@janos6644 Congratulations! You have just given the most ridiculous take imaginable. As several others have said, if his plan added to those existing benefits and used a progressive tax to pay for it, there would be no objection.
You want scenarios? Here are just a few:
1) Single parent with two kids has SSI and SNAP. Those total $1300/month. That is more than $1000, so this is someone who will be hurt by paying a regressive tax to pay for benefits that he/she can't take.
2) Parents with multiple children in daycare. Daycare is very expensive, so this will definitely hurt them.
3) Someone makes $39,000/year ($1500 biweekly) and takes the "freedom dividend." That person gets laid off. Because he/she already took the "freedom dividend," that person can't get unemployment, which pays out at 60% of income ($900 biweekly). If that person is still paying rent or mortgage, chances are that this is someone who will be easily using over 70% of income to pay rent.
So, yes, it is true that very few programs benefit everyone, but the people who Yang hurts are the poor, the disabled, and those who lose their jobs, i.e., the people who need help the most. If his ideology and stealth libertarianism wouldn't be blocking him from helping those people, just maybe there wouldn't be so many complaints about who gets hurt.
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@jaredhouston4223 The Fed was started in 1913, so it was there long before FDR. It started because J. P. Morgan singlehandedly decided who would get bailed out in 1907 as a panic started, in order to avoid a depression. Before 1913, in the first 124 years of the Republic, we had five major panics/depressions (1837, 1857, 1873, 1893, 1907) and only one since (1929), with another close call in 2008, after banks were deregulated. If regulations made things worse, why do you think that the economy was so much more unstable before Glass-Steagall? And why did we almost have another great depression only nine years after its repeal.
Tech companies got so big that they became monopolies because the government didn't regulate them. If anti-trust laws were actually enforced, it would have never happened.
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@Badatallthis Stuff How did the second vote go for the Truman plan for health care? How about the Nixon plan? How about Hillarycare?
How does forcing a performative vote doomed to fail hurt Medicare for All? Okay, let's go through the logic. Let's say the vote is forced to "put people on the record," even though there is such a thing as sponsorship that does just that. So, you have a vote on the floor. One of three things happens:
1) The sponsor list matches the final vote, so you just wasted everyone's time.
2) The Soft Yes members become Hard No, and you're farther away from passage.
3) Pelosi allows Catch and Release, knowing the bill is 100 votes short. So, members in lefty districts how don't really support it vote Yes to avoid an Eliot Engel situation, but if it ever actually has a chance of passage, they'll show that their support was insincere and just to avoid a primary challenge (See also: Gabbard, Tulsi).
So, not only does it not help you get what you want, but it defeats its own stated goal. Not only that, but it was always a primary tactic, not about expanding the map at all. Funny how every Dore tactic is only about hurting Democrats.
Riddle me this, Batman, what have you personally done to build support for Medicare for All?
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@Jack Tharp Unemployment spiked because he tried to balance the budget. The reason is simple: the government is the spender of last resort. When the economy sinks, people cut back, causing a vicious cycle. You have to have some entity to step in, and businesses can't do it, because people aren't buying. By 1945, in part because millions were coming home and in part because price controls were lifted, there was pent up demand, and that's why the economy grew. Having learned the lesson of 1937, budgets in the 35 years after were only balanced in times of plenty (and not necessarily then), and the debt as a share of the economy shrank from 120% to 33%. When supply siders took over (and Democratic Presidents have not fully gone away from that consensus), even before the Great Recession the debt was over 80% of GDP.
See, that's what happens when you subscribe to an economic theory based in the real world rather than what you want the world to be: over the long run, your theory actually holds up.
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@alwayz247 Anti-war is not pro-peace. Sam Seder pointed out the truth about both Yang and Gabbard repeatedly. As far as the shine being off, the only people who supported Tulsi Gabbard were anti-anti-Trump types like Dore, Iversen, and House. Seder pointed out for years the dangers of the wrong kind of UBI, and pretty much everyone in his orbit pointed out how that Yang had the worst possible version of a UBI, because the poor and disabled still had to pay a tax for it but didn't get a penny. Clean campaigns is a far better model than democracy dollars, and if you honestly think that lobbyists and corporate interests won't just outspend the democracy dollars anyway, that is incredibly naive. While Pakman said that the idea for a UBI was interesting, he expressed a lot of concern with how Yang structured his version.
And again, "feuding with the MSM" (even at a time where she repeatedly acted as wing woman to Biden) shows the fatal flaw of defining yourself against something else. It allows awful actors like Yang and Gabbard to be seen as heroes. Well, the establishment hated Trump, too, and if you read their book, they praised Trump for that. Except the establishment hated him because he was a bigot. That is far different than hating someone who wants to increase their taxes and give workers more power in the workplace.
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@EverRae First of all, there was actual interference in the 2016 and 2020 elections to help Trump. Not ballot stuffing, and no one ever suggested that. It was there in plain sight, and people were convicted for their roles in it.
And, yes, it is lazy. You originally insisted that if one side did it the other side had to it, too. And, like it or not, there is a huge difference between pointing out that a propaganda campaign happened and storming the Capitol to try to overthrow the government. To make those remotely equivalent is not only lazy, but indescribably dangerous.
And you honestly don't see how it enables the worst actors to play both siderism enables the worst actors, just look at what you have posted. You are dismissing an armed insurrection because someone pointed out that bad things happened in another election. Democrats had a much stronger case in 2000, and no one stormed the Capitol to try to kill Denny Hastert. Al Gore shut down efforts to switch the results. To pretend that they are the same gives zero incentive to the worst actors to do better because "everyone does it." You seriously need to look in the mirror at yourself to see why you are refusing to call out a literal fascist coup attempt.
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@HispanicAt7heDisco You think it was a strong move? You do know that a) there is a sponsor list, b) they could only get 50 people to a national rally, and c) the media that most people actually watched was far more concerned with attempts by Republicans to challenge the Electoral College certification, right? No matter what, Pelosi was going to be Speaker. So, what would have happened with the vote?
1) The sponsor list was accurate, which would then be shoved in the face of everyone who tried to bring it back.
2) A lot of Soft Yes members become Hard No, and now you are farther away than before from passage.
3) Pelosi uses Catch and Release, and members in lefty districts vote Yes knowing it will fail, so they can avoid the fate of Engel.
So, where was the "strong move"? And what happened the second time around for the Truman health care plan? Or the Nixon plan? Or Hillarycare?
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@jessd4048 Who is Varn? Yes, I do think that there is some merit to giving someone some grace, but it should have been obvious at that debate, not a year and a half later, that Jimmy Dore was an unserious person who was only doing it for clicks and cash. Telling Sam "go easy on him" was in a sense saying not to expose the grift.
Yes, he started to get a bit quicker on the ball towards the end (he even let David and Nathan Robinson go on at length about their problems with Rising on his own show, even if he didn't want to join in himself, so I do think that had he lived a few more months even, he would have completed his acceptance of what they were doing), but at this point in time, we have seen the "how I left the left" grift so many times that we know its beats and rhythms pretty precisely. Michael was great at many things, but grifter spotting wasn't really one of them.
Then again, it would make an interesting question of how you handle an ethos of "kindness to people and ruthlessness to systems" when a grift is both slow motion and obvious at a certain point. A month or two ago, I was willing to say that this might be a one-off of an occasional bad take, but the fact that they have dug in so hard seems more and more like evidence that their former proteges didn't betray them as much as they showed them the path.
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@curiousabout1 She always had a horrible streak. Yes, in 2016,I thought that she was a worthy successor to Bernie, but once I heard her advocate torture I did everything I could to try to warn people about her, and I got so much grief from the tulcels about it. If someone innocently stumbled upon her and didn't know, that's one thing, but the people who were given the facts and ignored them (I'm not talking about the OP), have no such excuse. Even before she went fully mask off, she lobbied Der Orangefuhrer for a job as Secretary of State, she went to Syra on Assad's dime and spouted propaganda when she went home, she called single payer "un-American" twice in an interview with Anderson Cooper, and it was pretty obvious that her version of "peace" was isolationism with a younger, prettier face.
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@adaminfinity1733 Oh, look, someone who doesn't understand basic things saying, "I want answers!"
Here are your answers: no one ever said that the vaccine is 100% effective. The polio vaccine that the anti-vaccine crowd keeps bringing up to pretend to be reasonable? 61% effective. So, why don't you hear about people getting polio in this country? Because pretty much everyone gets the polio vaccine. When you have a third of the population that absolutely refuses to get the vaccine, the cumulative societal effect is lower, so the virus has a chance to mutate. The original coronavirus is pretty much dead by now. However, because of dummies who either didn't get it or want to spread misinformation, the virus continues to mutate, and there are only nine letters left in the Greek alphabet for variants. We had our chance to eradicate it, but stupid people had to ruin it for everyone.
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@Zach-ju5vi That makes no sense at all. In first past the post, people are far less likely to pick their first choice. If you have RCV, you can vote for who you really want first.
Let me give you an example. I lived in Philadelphia in 2015. The mayoral race was a six-person race. I really liked a lot of what I heard from Nelson Diaz, but he was only polling in the single digits. One of the other candidates was Anthony Hardy Williams, the voucher/charter king of Philadelphia. With a month or two out, he had the lead with a little over a third of the vote. I really didn't want him as the nominee, so I looked at who was second. It was Jim Kenney, who in the final pre-election polls led by a couple points. Not wanting to risk Williams, I voted for Kenney. Apparently, a lot of people did the same thing, because Kenney got an outright majority and beat Williams by over 20 points. Had Ranked Choice Voting been a thing, I could have voted my heart (Diaz) first, and voted my head (Kenney) second. Instead, I couldn't risk voting for who I really wanted because his polling was so low.
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@1369Stiles So, you give up before you start. And when did I say anything about Presidential primaries? And this is a long-term project. I grew up in what was the bluest state in America, but now it is one of the reddest. Virginia went red in every Presdiential election since 1964 until Obama won it (including dominance at the local level), and it hasn't gone red since. If you give up before you start, you'll never build anything, and you've already lost. Then again, vote forcing is admission of defeat, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
Oh, and the reddest state of all through 1988? Vermont. It had literally only voted for a Democrat once for President in its entire history (1964), it had only sent one Democratic Senator to Washington (Leahy), and was dominated at the state level as well. Realignments happen lots of times at the state and local level, but they require work.
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@DubhghlasMacDubhghlas It does, because if no one gets to 270, it goes to the House. Therefore, coalitions are encouraged by voters rather than parties. When there are close elections and a candidate becomes President without winning the popular vote, the winning margin comes from states where the President-elect got the electoral votes in states with a plurality of votes put him over the top, and third party voting made a key difference. In 2000, Bush got pluralities in states (including Florida) totaling 54 electoral votes. Based on how Nader voters would have voted had he not been on the ballot, Florida wouldn't have been close enough for the Supreme Court to steal it. Without those electoral votes, Bush only gets 217.
In 2016, Trump won pluralities in states totaling 108 electoral votes, meaning that without them he only gets to 198.
When people see how third parties help elect people whose views are farther away, fewer people vote third party the next time. In 2000, the total third party vote was 3.76% of the total. In 2004, it had fallen to 1.00%.
In 2016, third party voting was 5.83% of the vote. In 2020, it had fallen to 2.03%. When actual voters see the consequences of voting third party, they move toward the major parties again. Even if a third party candidate were to catch fire, the best he/she could hope for would be to throw the election to the House... where it will be decided by Democrats and Republicans. Our system has always gravitated to two major parties for a reason.
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@Janpre2001 It reminds me of a joke that I have heard in several churches, but never among fundamentalists. There's a flood, and a woman believes that God will rescue her from the flood. A bus comes along to offer her a ride to a shelter. She refuses the ride, saying "God will provide." The water rises to street level. Then, a boat comes along, offering her a ride, and she says, "God will provide." Then, the water rises and she goes to the roof. A helicopter comes and offers her a ride. She says, "God will provide."
Finally, she drowns. She sees God and says, "I thought You were going to save me," and God said, "I sent a bus, a boat, and a helicopter. What more did you need?"
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@maxwellmontgomery3421 A Supreme Court seat gets stolen when there is a vacancy on the Court and one party refuses to "advise and consent," doesn't even meet with the nominee, and promises to sit on it until they can fill it (during the election, Lindsey Graham said that he'd block anyone Hillary appointed, too). And when they say that it is too soon eight months before a Presidential election, but two weeks before is just fine, that shows that this was only about the pursuit of power, because other than raw power, tax cuts for the rich, and holding court seats, today's American right has no principles.
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@IvanDaGrVIII What have you actually done in this world to try to make a difference? Rather than backing a supporter of torture because she went on my show, I knocked on doors, made phone calls, served as a captain for a petition drive, and did a reading at a fundraiser for the only Presidential candidate who fully supported Medicare for All. I have written an opinion column, run for public office, and now work at a job where I help people get the help they need to make their lives better. Oh, and I don't grift to help right wingers, either, or simp for those who do. If it wasn't for people like me, the people whose names you know would be nowhere.
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@Jack Tharp We wouldn't have any sort of modern economy if we were bound by the amount of gold we own. That's why every modern economy abandoned the gold standard and it's more prevalent in Third World countries. Yes, both parties have had debts and deficits, but since people like to throw around the family analogy, going into debt to buy a house is a lot different than going into debt to buy a bunch of stuff on Amazon.
You are not getting how the phrase "spender of last resort" is used. It doesn't mean that the government never spends money, it means that there are times that it needs to spend when no one else will. There was also the government as employer of last resort. Not civil service positions, but temporary jobs to help remove the slack in the market.
Yes, let us look at the successes: we are having this discussion on the internet (defense project) with products that were shipped via trucks (roads built by the government), trains (tracks built by the government), ships (ports maintained by the government), and planes (air control administered by the government). If you are in a rural area, you have electricity because government stepped in when the free market deemed it cost infleffective. If you went to public school, government again. If your water is not polluted, the EPA made sure it isn't. If you ate food, the FDA inspected it to make sure that it wasn't poisoned. As Sam told another debater, you think you are standing suspended in mid air, but you don't see the building supporting you.
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Bernie lost because too many on the left are lazy and don't think long term. How many of the people calling Bernie weak actually did something to help him win? Not just sending a few dollars and thinking that was enough, but actually knocking on doors, making phone calls, talking to your neighbors and coworkers, working a petition drive, etc. When Barry Goldwater lost, the right decided to focus on local races and organize, slowly going for bigger and bigger fish in the pond. By the time Reagan came along 16 years later (in what was actually his third attempt at the nomination), they were unstoppable.
The last realignment for good in this country was the New Deal era (the Great Society was largely an extension of the New Deal, and it turned out to be a zenith rather than a horizon, so that doesn't count). Did people just wake up and say Screw Hoover, which convinced FDR to abandon balanced budgets? No, it was the result of 40 years of planting the seeds that began with the Populist movement and the Socialist movement. If you are ready to give up after five years, you are part of the problem.
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@whosays1977 I would say that the swing states are Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Arizona, Florida, North Carolina, Georgia, Minnesota, and New Hampshire, with the reach states being Texas, Ohio, and Iowa.
Thank you for all your work! I knocked on doors in PA starting in July with DSA, did a reading at a fundraiser, and was captain for a petition drive (if the primary wasn't over by the time it got here, I would have been a block captain). When I hear the keyboard warriors insist that they tried, only to find out that they didn't really do anything, it can be so maddening.
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@davidm1926 True, but they were also the one country that had its first known case the same day we did, so it offered the most direct comparison. Yes, we had our own failures that put us in league with the biggest blunders like Russia, India, and Brazil (even the UK wasn't quite in our league of awful response, and they were pretty bad). If people want to embrace American exceptionalism, then we need to look at the best of what is possible. Even with Japan botching its vaccine, they are still doing far better. Then again, funny how the Orange Crush always make excuses for how the country they said should be first and great again can't compete with places like New Zealand and Australia, either.
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@SportsZombie54 He also said that "Amazon would have to pay for every purchase," which was a ridiculous notion, because every study has shown that any consumption tax in any form gets completely passed onto the consumer. Do you consider books to be a luxury item? I don't. If it is only on luxury goods, it is by definition not a VAT, and it isn't enough to raise $2.5T. A VAT is a broad-based tax.
The existing social safety net should not be either/or. Making people give up their existing benefits is the very definition of a right-wing UBI. The key distinction is whether or not is in addition to or instead of the existing benefits. Robert Reich proposed one that doesn't take away what people already get. There are some needs that are specific and acute, and a UBI is wholly inadequate to address them. Why force people in that situation to choose?
Example: Of the few that he was willing to specify, Yang mentioned daycare subsidies. Imagine a single parent with two small children making $20,000/year. Since Yang doesn't support increasing the minimum wage, this is entirely feasible. Daycare for two kids is $1500/month. Therefore, it is either take the subsidy or quit the job. Since the former is clearly the best option, you are now making that person pay extra for goods, thus making his/her position worse in absolute dollars, and worse in relative dollars, because the friends from the job who don't have small children are now getting more money to spend. How is this progressive?
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@HansKeesom People should find ways, as opposed to the people who do little of the work, get all of the credit, and most of the pay? And I would say that anyone who argues that people are rich solely because they are intelligent and skilled are either rich and delusional, or poor and want to be rich someday, so they keep sucking up to rich people. The extent that you do it sounds like full on worship.
The Almighty Market used to say that factory jobs paid the least, and now they pay some of the highest for blue collar workers. Is that because they got new jobs skills, or is that because they realized that the boss needed them more than they needed the boss and demanded it?
"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves the much higher consideration." Abraham Lincoln
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@mayavox I don't care what caucus she sits on. Do you think Nancy Pelosi is a big lefty? After all, she was a member of the Progressive Caucus until very recently. What about Joe Kennedy III?
Really? I'm making it up that Tulsi Gabbard never used the sake talking points that John Delaney did about "choice" when it came to private insurance? Well, then what was this she said to Anderson Cooper?
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/8/3/1876429/-In-which-Tulsi-Gabbard-literally-calls-her-own-healthcare-bill-un-American-Seriously
[Excerpt]:
AC: Do you think those who are embracing taking away private insurance from people alternately, is that just politically/strategically a non-starter?
TG: I don't know about the politics of it, but I just think about it from the perspective of [...] thr American people... that if all of a sudden you are taking away their choice... that's not a very American thing in my opinion. [...] So, let's do our jobs, try to bring down the cost of healthcare in this country that's exorbitant, make sure people get the quality care they need, and if they still choose that that's not what they want, they can go get private insurance.
I didn't put those words in her mouth, and you can watch the video in the link starting at 3:32. The part that shows the flip is at 4:16. Checkmate.
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@peaceoutpeaceout4267 Wrong on so many levels. First, she used the same line as Delaney in saying that people with Cadillac plans can keep them. Her website even said "public option" on her Medicare for All page.
And as a veteran, I am sick and tired of Tulsi and her defenders hiding behind her veteran status to justify the indefensible. She was asked about torture, and her response opened by saying that she was conflicted (if you really oppose torture, there is no conflict on the question), she invoked a ticking time bomb scenario, and then said that she "would do whatever it takes to keep America safe." Of course, very few people are dumb enough to come out and openly support a war crime, so they speak in code. She used literally every part of the code that indicates support of torture. And her back track isn't because it is wrong to even in passing give even the slightest impression of supporting a war crime, but to say that she hadn't read the report (which was one in a series that says torture doesn't work) is a valid defense means that you think that she either never thought about the thing that the Army Field Manual and Geneva Conventions have been very clear is forbidden, or she was looking for a reason to support it. Both of which at unworthy of a would-be commander in chief.
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@youknow9092 Ah, yes, the "regulated didn't mean that" dodge. Jefferson wasn't at the Constitutional Convention. In fact, most of the people who you cite weren't there, nor were they in the First Congress that debated what ultimately became the Bill of Rights. And the Militia Act clearly defines what a militia does, as does Article I, Section 8, and Article II, Section 2. After all, how could the President call the entire citizenry to war? That seems like a pretty huge government right there. And contrary to this notion of taking down the government, one of the purposes of a militia is to put down rebellions, and it served this purpose in 1794.
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@sudoleone4159 That's not how it works. It is not based on dollar amount, it is based on a percentage of income. If you give a poor person an extra $1000/month, that will either be spent or used to pay off debts. If it goes into spending, it will only really be about $909/month, if that person spends it all. Given how much corporations hold in cash reserve, and how much of the tax cuts went to things like stock buyback, the rich already have more money than they know what to do with, so they most likely aren't going to do anything but stockpile that money, so it won't get taxed at all, and since Yang's vision is not big enough to either include a wealth tax or tax the unrealized capital gains on inherited stock (as it is now, if Bezos dropped dead tomorrow, his heirs could take their Amazon stock and cash it out tax free, which is obscene), that would be far superior to taxing the poor at a higher percentage of income than the rich.
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@AhsimNreiziev If you think that people haven't given reasons why a tax on consumption is regressive, you clearly haven't been paying attention. Lots of studies have shown that VAT gets passed to consumers, and consumption taxes are regressive because there are certain things people have to buy that are a much larger portion of income for the poor. Since Yang also refuses to list more than six or seven of the 125 programs that people have to forfeit if they take his money, and he won't provide any sort of guideline for what will be exempt (and when trying to court a left wing audience and falsely claiming Amazon will pay the tax, that implies that he thinks books are a luxury item), I have no reason to trust that it will be remotely fair. Oh, and my current home state has a flat tax on income and exempts groceries, clothing, diapers, and medicine, among others, from taxation, and we still have one of the most regressive systems in America. THAT is why I say his tax proposal is regressive. I did think harder, and that is when I realized how horrible most of his solutions really are.
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@MrGolov-te5eb Yes, because Pat Buchanan or Howard Phillips are the ones who drew 15,000 more Gore voters than Bush voters in Florida. eye roll
Like it or not, there is literally a zero chance that anyone other than a Democrat or a Republican will win a national election. Therefore, if you are closer to the Democrat ideologically and you don't vote for the Democrat, you are helping the Republican. You know how I know it is a zero chance? If by some miracle, a third party candidate arises, builds a substantial base of support, and either takes evenly from the two major parties or mobilizes a sufficient amount of new voters, if that candidate doesn't get to 270, the election goes to the House... where it is decided by Democrats and Republicans.
But, wait! What if this third party actually builds a grassroots and wins Congressional seats? Well, in order to actually sit on committees in Congress, you have to caucus with one party or the other, meaning that once they do get there, they become de facto Democrats and Republicans, anyway. Meanwhile, the Republicans move the judiciary so far that you get nothing past them of consequence. Great strategy!
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@brasshouse-fireball Okay. Let's follow your logic. You are aware that there are a list of sponsors, right? Unless anyone else has signed on between the beginning of the Congress 54 days ago and today that I haven't noticed, we are up to 118 & 13. It takes 218 & 50 (assuming you can get reconciliation) to pass. If you hold a vote, one of three things will happen:
1) The sponsor count is an accurate reflection of support, and the bill loses with less than 1/3 of the vote in each House. The bill goes nowhere, and bringing it up again does nothing.
2) The Soft Yes sponsors are angered by the tactic and vote No. It fails by an even worse margin and you have alienated potential supporters
3) Several people who fear a primary opponent on the left will vote Yes, but not nearly enough to pass the bill, and you have taken the heat off several members who, like when Republicans voted to repeal the ACA knowing it would fail who got cold feet when it was real, are not going to vote Yes when you need it.
Literally none of those end in passage, which tells me that either you listened to someone with no understanding of how politics works and didn't bother to think of step two, or you are trying to divide the left to help Republicans.
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@thomas2082 You've debunked nothing. All you did was say, "No, they didn't!" With thinking like that, no wonder you like Jimmy Dore.
Well, with your logic, you are defending Jimmy Dore, who endorsed someone who called Medicare for All un-American to Anderson Cooper. Twice. Someone who defended torture, compared the Iran nuclear deal to Munich, praised Sisi for killing protesters in Egypt, praised Modi repeatedly, made it harder for Syrian refugees to enter the United States, praised Putin for bombing civilians in Syria while complaining that Obama didn't, tried to get a job as Trump's secretary of state, and praised Trump for leaving the Kurds to the slaughter. If I go down, you're going down with me.
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@Jason MacNeil How will giving $1000/month to people not currently receiving benefits "take the boot off their neck"? Not that $1000/month is insignificant, but he has been saying that it is to help displaced workers. If it is that, $1000/month won't be nearly enough.
So, do you see this as a welfare program for the middle class? If so, that isn't universal, and it is misleading to call it universal basic income. Universal means everyone gets it, and he doesn't do that.
For someone who is supposedly so open to suggestions, there have been two main criticisms of his proposal from the left: it doesn't cover everyone, and the method of taxation. Has he moved an inch on either of those? Not that I've seen. Given his insistence that these major concerns are trivial, I don't trust him to come back and say, "I realized that it was a mistake to design this program in a way that the poor and disabled either don't get the maximum benefit or even benefit at all, so I will make my program truly universal and open it up to everyone no questions asked."
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@3ld919 I do mean a fake leftist all along. Greenwald is a libertarian, and when you look at the Snowden story and what they really believe, it is obvious that he is hardly a hero and (considering the fact that he has outlasted so many dissidents in Russia), possibly an agent.
I don't know if coordination is necessarily the correct term amongst the anti-anti-Trump crowd, but there is a lot of overlap. Probably the biggest gateway is caring more about being anti-establishment than any particular set of beliefs. I met Krystal Ball last year when she came to Philadelphia, and she is one of the most dangerous of all. It was at a DSA meeting, and she had the group eating out of her hand. I kept hearing her talking about how rewarding it was to write a book, and I waited in line and got my copy, as well as taking a picture with her and my then 4 1/2 year old daughter. When I got the book, I was shocked to find out that it was a brief essay about what I realized later was a red/brown alliance, and transcripts of the radars I can get for free online. I always thought it odd how often she went after Establishment Dems, but I just chalked it up to the nature of the primary, although her love for Yang and Tulsi suggested a blind spot. I still keep the picture and the book... as a reminder to always beware of possible grifters.
My guess is that like Dave Rubin before them, they realized the money was in dumping on the left. The people behind them, on the other hand, are probably coordinating.
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Harry Mann Jr You really don't tire of pretending that taxes are the only expense in the world, do you?
Okay, I will use simple round numbers for demonstration purposes. Let's take someone who makes $50,000/year. That person currently pays $5000/year in taxes, and $4000/year in health care costs. That person would have $41,000 after those two expenses.
Now, let's say that taxes go up $1000 (it would actually be $840, but again, I am just using round numbers, so the point is even stronger in real life). That means $6000/year in taxes and no out of pocket medical expenses, leaving that person with $44,000.
$44,000>$41,000, even with higher taxes.
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john Doe You're the one defending centrists, but giving the right wing points, so either you are trolling about centrists and showing your true right-wing self, or you are showing that the Republican Party has pushed things so far right, that Barry Goldwater would be "center" these days.
I didn't say failing economy, even though anyone with eyes can see that the economy stopped working for most people in this country around 1980. I said Republicans believe in a theory that has been proven not to work. For decades, Republicans have insisted that tax cuts pay for themselves, and every time they get the tax cuts, they turn out to be even more costly than the CBO thought.
As far as voter suppression, Republicans control the voting procedures in Florida, so you only proved my point.
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@jocksharerock7318 I think you are right, my friend. I did everything I could to help Bernie get elected in 2020 (my daughter was born in Nov. 2015 and there was the one car between me and my then-wife who usually got it because she was more likely to work nights and my job was closer to a continuous route for public transportation, which really limited my activism), but looking back, I think that he may be better off where he is, because with this or a similar partisan makeup, do they honestly think that he would have better luck moving Manchin and Sinema? Then, if he was ineffective, it would have been seen as proof that the left can't do anything. It would have made what the UK establishment did to Corbyn look mild in comparison.
What really amazes and saddens me is the laziness. We have the better ideas, and we're fighting to actually improve people's lives, but because Bernie lost, they want to give up. It took 16 years for the Goldwater wing to take over the Republican Party, and they had money. Giving up after five is proof that too many are lazy and expect it to fall to them. As much as it pains me to say it, if people aren't in it for the long haul, maybe we're getting what we deserve.
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@Zach-ju5vi GDP doesn't tell the whole story. If all the wealth gets concentrated at the top (and for the last 40+ years, instead of the long history of a relationship between productivity and wages, the time was severed and wages have remained stagnant, to the point where the average American would make $90,000/year if the wage and productivity relationship remained), and people have to pay more for things that used to be free, that doesn't benefit people. Daycare centers add to GDP, but does having to shell out five figures for someone to watch your kid while you work really make someone's life better?
And the reason why people prefer cheap things is because of wage stagnation. If we addressed poverty, then everyone would benefit, and they could afford to buy quality things, but because some people really do believe Ron Swanson's statement that capitalism is "God's way of showing who is smart and who is poor," instead of admitting that we are more interconnected than they think and that cooperation is better in the long run, we end up with a permanent underclass and millions whose potential gets squandered.
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@carlosb5523 So, Yang never said that. He never once let those words or a similar formulation come from his mouth? Then, riddle me this, Batman, what do you call this at the 4:11 mark?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Is2VWliq7Jg
Or this at the 2:35 mark?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eqin3ELGnU
Both of those sure sound to me like his long-term goal is to get rid of the existing social safety net, especially the one with Rubin. Or, as Grover Norquist put it, shrinking it to the size that it could be drowned in a bath tub.
You keep saying that people just need to do more research, but maybe the problem is that people have already done a lot of research about his program and realize that it is terrible. If someone gets more now and decides to keep what they already have, those people will be negatively affected by the method of taxation. Unless he thinks that he can get rid of disability, or parents needing to send their children to daycare, or poor people needing affordable housing (he doesn't even try on that front), then a lot of people will suffer from either eliminating those programs or not benefiting and having to pay the taxes for them. $1000/month isn't enough to live on now, let alone in the future when there are no new jobs if he is right.
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@robinsss How ironic that the libertarian finds a fee or a payment to the government he fully supports... by making it more difficult for the poor, the elderly, the disabled, and the urbanites to vote.
Let me make this as simple as possible: if you have to pay for a government ID, that is a tax. If you have to do so in order to vote, that is also a tax. If you are poor, elderly, disabled, or live in a city, you are less likely to drive, and thus less likely to have said government ID (and wanting people to have to have an ID also goes against your otherwise insistence on small government). In my adopted home state of Pennsylvania, people in Philadelphia are twice as likely to not have a government photo ID as the rest of the state. Therefore, you want those people to pay a tax in order to vote. Therefore, the proposed voter ID laws are poll taxes.
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@richardmetzger2574 276 is less than 291 (W), 364 (Clinton), a slower rate than 166 in half the time (Poppy), 381 (Reagan), 320 (Carter), a slower rate than 169 in 2.5 years (Ford), 346 (Nixon), 325 (LBJ), a slower rate than 214 in three years (JFK), 484 (Ike), 907 (Truman), 3728 (FDR), 968 (Hoover), etc. It's also a slower rate than 105 in two years (Trump). In raw numbers, he ranked 15th in executive orders, and there were six others who served less time who did it at a faster pace. Silly partisan.
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@MrMarket1987 The point is that when a bill for universal or near-universal health care fails, it kills any such legislation for a generation. Edward Kennedy learned that lesson when he killed the Nixon plan in 1971 because he wanted to hold out for something better. He spent 38 years trying and failing to get anything better. LBJ, arguably the most effective vote wrangler ever, knew this and only tried to get it for seniors, because he knew that was the best he could get.
If you look at the four major pushes for universal or near-universal health care in the United States, not only does it go away when it fails, but each version gets weaker (Truman in 1948, Nixon in 1971, Clinton in 1993-94, Obama in 2009-10). Failure leads to more failure, but success tends to create a toehold as legislation tends to improve after it is passed (for example: Social Security didn't originally cover domestic and farm work). Medicare itself has expanded over the years as well. The ACA was an exception to the rule because Mitch McConnell has basically broken the United States government. The last major health care bill that passed before the ACA was Medicare Part D, and it was a hot mess, but Democrats worked with Republicans to improve the bill and make it work better.
Besides, given the fact that literally one-seventh of the economy will rebel against this and throw everything they have at it, you don't need symbolic votes guaranteed to fail, you need a grassroots army mobilizing to educate and get people on board so they won't fall for the scare tactics of Harry and Louise. Given your username, I don't know if you remember them, but when those ads started, support for Hillarycare plummeted.
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@sergeikhripun So, you wanted them to waste their time to demand a vote that they knew would fail, and then what? No matter how many times you hold out, no one not named Nancy Pelosi was going to become Speaker, and there is already a sponsor list. This means one of three things would happen relative to that list.
1) The list is completely accurate, and the bill is 100 votes short, which then wastes that leverage for a failed vote because Pelosi can say, "See? Medicare for All is going nowhere and this was a waste of time."
2) The Soft Yes members become Hard No, and we're even farther away. You saw this even with the calls for Force the Vote when Dwight Evans, who sponsored the bill in the 116th Congress, is no longer a sponsor. Now, you're even farther away than before.
3) Pelosi uses Catch and Release, and allows a few members in lefty districts who would be vulnerable to an AOC or Bowman to vote Yes knowing that it will fail. Now, you have taken the air out of the primary challenge to the establishment that you claim to hate and those Yes votes would become No the instant there was a realistic chance of passage.
Congratulations, you have just advocated something that accomplishes absolutely nothing. If you want to engage in self-indulgence, get a room and some lube.
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@exiledhebrew1994 So, Russia, which has already conquered one province in 2014, invades a country and doesn't want them to join an alliance that will protect them? Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaking of agreements, the whole "NATO will never expand eastward" was discussed but dropped from negotiations as the Iron Curtain was falling, but Russia did say that they would respect territorial sovereignty of Ukraine if they got rid of their Soviet-era nukes, and they signed an agreement, but Putin invaded twice and said that Ukraine was never a real country, but an extension of Russia. Yes, he can really be trusted to make peace. /s
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Cenk, some of your analysis is quite disappointing because it misses basic facts:
1) with proportional representation, it pretty much always involves a coalition government. Not counting the 2001 election which was only for PM, here were the number of seats by the winning party in this century, with 61 required for a majority: 2003 (Likud), 38; 2006 (Kadima), 29; 2009 (Likud), 27*; 2013 (Likud), 31; 2015 (Likud), 30; 2019 (Likud), 35+
*Kadima had 28 seats, but were not given the opportunity to form a government, in part because Liberman finished third with 15 seats and said he would only work with Likud
+tied with Blue and White, unable to form coalition
2) Netanyahu didn't want a new election. Israeli rules state that the president (similar to the speaker in the UK) selects the party that gets an opportunity to form a government. If that party cannot form a government, either another party gets a shot at it, or the president calls for a new election. Yes, Netanyahu sucks, and it seems like racism is his only move lately, but this election was forced on him because the president didn't think Blue and White could get majority. Well, I guess they will get their chance.
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@elbruces It depends on the area. It might make it easier for a third party that actually organizes rather than focusing on a doomed Presidential election chasing matching funds* then they might have some strength. Its main draw is getting rid of the spoiler effect, but if the third parties understood this and did the work, they might be more competitive. I don't think that it's a coincidence that the last third party to win a significant number of Congressional seats focused on local organization, won races, and proved their competency to voters. It's how Sewer Socialism became a thing.
*as an example, in my native state [one that I left 15 years ago], all it takes to get ballot access statewide is 1% of the vote in the previous gubernatorial election, the Mountain Party [originally started as a statewide party, now affiliated with the Green Party] and the Libertarian Party both qualified, and in 2020, out of a possible 117 legislative seats (where all it takes to qualify as a candidate, you need a filing fee of $100 for the House and $200 for the Senate), each party only fielded five candidates.
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@jones1618 Bernie narrowly lost Iowa and had a massive win in New Hampshire. However, Hillary got a very big win in South Carolina and had a huge lead going into Super Tuesday. Bernie won four of the 11 states and was trying to play catch up after that.
In 2020, Biden basically gave up on the early states. Bernie was in a very close won in Iowa, won in New Hampshire but not by enough to get more delegates, had a big win in Nevada, and lost big in South Carolina. Bernie led by about four delegates going into Super Tuesday. Buttigieg and Klobuchar had virtually zero support from black voters, and they dropped out before Super Tuesday and endorsed Biden. Biden got a big win on Super Tuesday and never looked back. Bernie always had trouble in the southern states, but he had a shot in Texas and Tennessee. Losing both of those proved to be fatal.
Had Ranked Choice Voting been a thing, it may not have made a difference. The Warren voters resented the fact that Bernie got what they saw as their lane, so it wouldn't have been as clear cut as people think. By the time Bernie dropped out in April, he needed 2/3 of the remaining delegates to win, but he was only getting half that.
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@jones1618 The 2016 race was down to three candidates by Iowa, but O'Malley was such a non-factor that he dropped out that night.
Yes, there was an effort to coalesce around one candidate in 2020, but quite frankly, Klobuchar should have dropped out after finishing fifth in Iowa (which didn't happen because all of the problems of Iowa took center stage, and outside of a surprise third in New Hampshire, she did nothing in Nevada and South Carolina, so the real question was how she even made it as far as she did) and Warren should have dropped out after New Hampshire (she is the only candidate from a neighboring state to ever lose, and she had a pitiful 9% and a fourth place finish but no delegates) and she stayed in past Super Tuesday. In that sense, it definitely hurt Bernie that she stayed in as long as she did, and he may have won Texas and Tennessee without Warren and Gabbard on the ballot. The usual function of the early states is to narrow the field.
The only candidate who could have made a case for staying in longer was Buttigieg. Ironically, the 2020 race was more decided by people staying in too long rather than getting out too early. The reason why I mention stuff like that is because a lot of the so-called Bernie or Busters have continued this myth that is completely counter to what happened. Bernie got 44% of the vote in 2016, and 32% of the vote in 2020 before he dropped out. It was a remarkable showing, but it just wasn't enough, and in all honesty, given that his 2020 campaign was running based on the flawed strategy that the non-Bernie candidates wouldn't coalesce around one and this huge field would stay in place to the point where 30% would be enough, that proved to be a fatal mistake. Focusing on perceived slights keeps us from doing the necessary work. Two weeks ago, I got to see Bernie in action. To borrow a phrase from Edward Kennedy, the dream will never die.
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@brentnoury7626 Catch and Release is a legislative strategy that was pioneered by Tom DeLay in the 1990s. The theory behind it was that the vote total didn't matter nearly as much as the final result. (In his first Congress as House Majority Whip in 1995-96, he was either 300-3 or 301-2 on bills he pushed.) So, realizing this, he let moderate Republicans rotate the bills that they would support, but he wouldn't let any of them actually vote against him until he had the votes to pass. A decade later, Barney Frank summed up the best I've heard it: "There is no such thing as a moderate Republican. They say that they vote with the President 70% of the time, but they vote with him 100% of the time when he needs their votes."
So, given this strategy, and that the whole theory behind Force the Vote is that it will expose members so they can be challenged in primaries (ignoring that there is a thing called a sponsor list), and that the bill is 100 votes shy of passage if the sponsor list is remotely accurate, what would keep Pelosi from allowing members in lefty districts to vote Yes knowing that they will a) extinguish support for a primary challenge to their left so they don't suffer the same fate as Crowley, Engel, or Klay, and b) that they will never vote for Medicare for All when it actually has a chance of passage?
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@NoWay1969 Well, he does talk about it as something that everyone can get, but then he says that it's optional for people who get governmental assistance. As I and others have pointed out, this is a huge problem with his version of UBI. Since not everyone gets it, it's not even accurate to call it UBI.
Another consequence of the Freedom Dividend is that it may very well keep wages down. "After all, you get an extra thousand bucks a month tax free, so why should I pay you so much?" This is why those on the left have argued that any effective UBI a) has to actually be universal, rather than reverse means tested like Yang's proposal, and b) be high enough that someone could actually live off of that amount to give workers leverage.
As far as funding, if that is his answer for why consumption should be taxed instead of income or wealth, if he really is worried about companies avoiding taxes, why not get rid of the loopholes that help them avoid taxes in the first place? The more I hear about Yang, the more I think that he's a libertarian stalking horse.
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@NoWay1969 Indeed, but a lot of the details that I have seen don't really address poverty (because the payment is too small to do that) or inequality (because he refuses to tax the wealthy on order to pay for it). I do worry that he does see it as a way to phase out or drastically reduce existing benefits, because the either/or nature of his plan is one of the ways that he plans on paying for it, because on his website, he mentions reduced payments on existing benefits as one of the ways that he plans to pay for it.
In one interview, he talks about it as a way to help people start a business, but I have had long stretches of unemployment while in grad school (where I was ineligible for most assistance programs because I was in school), and that kind of money wouldn't have done such a thing for me, because it would have been going toward basic expenses. I could also point to the deep, deep flaws in his proposal on college tuition, because he doesn't adjust it for things like the poverty level, so it would actually be worse than some existing repayment programs.
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Here's an answer where you get stuck at 14:20 From 1932-1996, when liberalism was mostly defined in economic terms, no state voted Democratic more often than West Virginia (14-3, with the exceptions being 1956, 1972, and 1984, with popular Republican incumbents). Not that it will suddenly turn blue, but the only chance for places like that is to embrace full-throttled economic populism (the real kind, not the fake right-wing version of it). Going along with all of the social issues and sucking up to business will only speed the decline, because as Truman reminded us, if given the choice between a Republican and a Republican, people will vote for the Republican every single time.
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@blasphimus True, but I think that too many people eschew electoral politics. Even if you lose, you can either a) have an impact on what people are talking about, or b) help people develop a muscle memory for voting for Democrats. In 2006, I ran for a seat in the WV House of Delegates (won the nomination unopposed, and got 38% in the general election). At one point, an elected official lamented why there were so few pro-choice legislators (even in a body that was 68-32 Democratic at the time, only about a quarter were reliable pro-choice voters). The reason? West Virginians for Life not only gave money, but ran ads on behalf of their candidates. WV Free, the leading pro-choice group in the state was a 501c3, so it couldn't give money or run ads for candidates. The rationale? "We can raise more money as a non-profit that is tax deductible." Yeah, but a fat lot of good that does you if you hardly have any allies in the Legislature.
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@JamesBond-st4qu So, you've done nothing? I've voted for good candidates, volunteered for the one candidate who supported Medicare for All in the Presidential election, and I worked with others in Philadelphia (my particular action was with DSA and Philly for Bernie, but many others did so and deserve praise such as Neighborhood Networks, and Health Care for All) to gather petitions and get others to contact their representatives, and thanks to our efforts, two members of Congress (Dwight Evans and Brendan Boyle) signed onto the bill, so yeah, I think that I have the right to point out that you have done nothing.
What does your puffery and non-action have to do with whether or not Jimmy Dore is right? Well, the mere fact that you think you have done things when you really haven't means that your energy is wasted and not going towards something that will actually get closer to your stated goal of Medicare for All. Hashtag activism is not activism.
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@Dan0TheMano She was not the point person for Bernie for five years. She was the point person for one year, and then they parted ways once she pulled this Never Biden nonsense. Then, she made the accelerationist argument to Noam Chomsky, so if she had gotten her way, Donald Trump would have won a second term.
If you have a vote, it doesn't end up the way that she thinks it will. She does a great many things well, but if your underlying theory is one of accelerationism that has been proven false time and time again, the other assumptions that you make that spring from that will also be wrong. Demanding a floor vote will be worse than nothing, because Pelosi can then say that she gave you what you wanted, and it failed, so now it's time to shut up. And exit polls are completely unreliable on Medicare for All, because it all depends on the wording. I have seen it anywhere from 37-73%. There is a way to build support, and it doesn't involve meaningless message votes. It involves doing actual work. So, what have you personally done to fight for Medicare for All and build support?
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@Badatallthis Stuff Well, you are one of the few advocates of this goofy strategy who has actually done some of the actual work, so I salute you for that.
How could you hold Republicans accountable? Work to defeat them in the general election. If Republicans become the majority in Congress, do you honestly expect a vote on Medicare for All? When they held Congress, they tried to take away health care for tens of millions.
If such big majorities support Medicare for All, why did only 21% vote for it in 2016 in Colorado? Why did Biden not lose an ounce of support after saying he wouldn't sign it in March 2020? Why do majorities think that it means you can keep private insurance, with even bigger majorities thinking that who support Medicare for All? When you dig deeper, people like the idea of universal health care, but it is clearly not an indicator of support for the bill. We have a lot of work to do, and saying things like that leads people to think that our work is done.
So, given that Catch and Release is a thing, how is having a vote really going to hold anyone accountable? It makes it easy for people to fake it only to abandon it once it has an actual chance to pull the rug out.
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8:32 Actually, there were exit polls that did for some reason lump Johnson and Stein voters together. They were asked, if their chosen candidate was off the ballot, would they support Hillary, Trump, another third-party candidate, or not vote at all. To my surprise, despite Libertarians more than tripling the Greens, Hillary was their overwhelming choice. If you add the net percentage who supported Hillary in the H2H (i.e., if they would have been 50-30 for Hillary, add 20% to her total), and she would have won Michigan and Wisconsin. Pennsylvania would have been very close, so I'm not sure if Hillary would have won, but it would have been awfully close.
Why did more Johnson voters prefer Hillary? Probably because they were suburbanites who didn't like Trump or Hillary and saw Johnson as a safe place to go.
That being said, the argument that Bernie cost Hillary is ridiculous, because that was the primary and he didn't cost her one vote.
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@TimeBandit2007 That's not quite how Supreme Court replacements work. Unless someone dies on the bench, it is his/her decision when to retire, so chances are Kennedy would have stayed on the bench. Instead, you might have had RBG retire so we don't have to worry about whether or not Trump gets to name her replacement. As of right now, Roberts is the "swing" Justice. If RBG dies between now and when Trump leaves office, then you have to convince Roberts and one other right-wing Justice not to do something awful.
As far as Obama locking kids up, did I say "locking kids up"? No, I said kidnapping. Obama didn't separate children from their parents, he didn't adopt those kids out, and he didn't send a two year old in court to defend herself without a lawyer to defend herself. If you can't tell the difference between the two, either you are very, very unaware of the worst abuses that he is doing, or you are trying to salve your conscience because of the very real consequences of what you advocated on this front.
As far as TPP, if Hillary was elected, Democrats probably would have controlled the Senate by a 50-50 margin (with a swing in PA & WI). Given that Republicans would have done everything possible to spite her, and people like Bernie and Warren wouldn't have gone along, TPP would have been DOA.
We would still be in the Paris Accords, we wouldn't have destroyed our reputation in the world, we wouldn't have been playing nuclear chicken with North Korea and then emboldened Kim to thumb his noses at us after dangling the disarmament carrot in our faces, we wouldn't have a President with a long history of scaremongering on vaccines, and maybe these severe measles outbreaks wouldn't be happening. We would have had a bloc of five Justices who wouldn't be trying to turn our country back to the 19th century (with only one right-wing Justice over the age of 65) to the point that minimum wage and overtime, worker safety laws, child labor laws, civil rights, and voting rights wouldn't be in danger for the next 30-40 years. Even President Cruz or President Pence wouldn't have the chance to do more than a like-for-like switch on the Supreme Court, so they couldn't do their damage.
And I heard the "No Republican for a generation" after Bush, and that didn't work. No party has won more than three consecutive terms since the 22nd Amendment, so I won't hold my breath. Instead, we have someone in office who we have to legitimately worry might not leave if he is defeated in 2020. But, yes, Hillary wouldn't have given you everything you want, so instead you decided to pout and throw everything away for a generation as though it would suddenly have this great awakening. I heard that argument about 2000/2004, and how did that work out? What makes you think that this time will be any different?
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As far as the motivation, I was a delegate to the WV Young Dems state convention five times (three representing WVU, two at-large [basically college graduates in a county that didn't have its own chapter]), and I spent three of those years (2005-07) on the Resolutions Committee. In that time, I got eight resolutions to the floor (Social Security, Patriot Act, single payer, living wage, global warming, public financing of campaigns, the Iraq War, and "a conversation on guns"). Guess which one of those was the only one to fail to pass?
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When I paid off my credit card last year, my daughter was about to start kindergarten, so I moved to an area with a high-performing school district. (I was going to move anyway, but this definitely was a factor in where I moved.) My income is fairly close one way or the other to the national median, but the median income of the school district is nearly twice the national level. When dealing with even the upper-middle class, there can be a certain level of cluelessness as well. My daughter wanted to have a playdate with another girl. I tended to suggest places to go that were free (parks, libraries, etc.), but the other girl's mom always wanted to suggest places that cost money, and I knew they were moving, and she casually mentioned someone offering cash at $40K above the asking price. Considering that I live in a 2 BR apartment, definitely not the kind of windfall I can expect. She was never mean or bragging, but I don't think that she honestly understood how not everyone has such good luck.
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@miscaccount9438 I must say that I find it highly amusing that you consider simply asking what you are doing to organize "a personal attack." I guess maybe "I try to get people to think differently" is your admission that you think commenting online is the same as organizing.
So, let's think of the consequences of "refusing to be a part of evil," as though that's not a personal attack on anyone who votes for the major-party nominee, especially when those people live in swing states. In 2000 and 2016, we got Presidents who were put there despite pluralities supporting other candidates in no small part because of third party candidates. It was very obvious in 2000, because Nader got over 150 times the margin of "victory" in Florida. In 2016, the exit polling shows that third party voters preferences would have definitely made the difference to swing Wisconsin and Michigan to Trump, and possibly Pennsylvania as well. That got us the Iraq War and over a million dead because of a pandemic.
But, wait! There's more. Between the two of them, they put five Justices on the Supreme Court, who provided the deciding margin in the Citizens United case (gutting campaign finance laws), Shelby (gutting the Voting Rights Act), and Dobbs (overturning Roe). So, you can pretend that you're above it all, but I will look at the real-world consequences and remember every time my adenoids are so swollen that I can barely breathe or I get really bad headaches.
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@FuddlyDud Oh, okay. I get where you're coming from now. I agree with you that some consumer products, especially technology, have gotten cheaper. However, there are other things that we either have to pay for now that people didn't have to pay for 50 years ago, or didn't have to pay much for. 50 years ago, you could work a summer job and pay college tuition (or, if you were in California, get it for free). One spouse's income (I don't care which spouse, but one income) was enough for a family to live on, which meant no daycare expenses. Yes, some things have gotten cheaper, but on the aggregate, the actual things we have to pay for have increased, which is why it is a net negative. That being said, you can't isolate and reregulate in a vacuum (you also have to figure out which things worked [like phones] and which didn't [like planes and banks]), you have to have an agenda that actually supports workers' rights. I come from a poor state, and things are cheaper there, but go to a place where you're in relatively the same station, and you'll understand why deflation is bad.
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@FuddlyDud It's not about not having good ideas or not, but I have heard or read each of these ideas before. I don't think the pre-1980 era was a golden era with no problems, but I do think that the economy worked for more people then that it does now. I have heard many on the right argue against higher taxes because people should enjoy the fruits of their labor, but wouldn't decades of stagnating wages despite massive increases of productivity be a perfect example of someone not getting to enjoy the fruits of his/her labor?
Re: daycare/childcare; I don't know what you would consider "affordable" or "quality," but here in PA, even the lower end of daycare if you don't really care about quality runs $150/week. Do the math, and that's $7800/year. That's hardly cheap, and that's also not enough on a larger scale to have daycare workers who are well paid. It seems like a lot of the things you advocate result in everyone at the bottom scrimping at the Dollar Tree because they can't afford to shop elsewhere while the owners are billionaires. (I have bought things at Dollar Tree, so I'm not making any statements about people who shop there, the same way I get angered by Shoppers of Wal-Mart as mocking the wrong person.)
Re: medical costs; we are the only industrialized country without universal coverage. We also spend far more than any other. If you think that is coincidental, what do you think explains this difference?
Re: college tuition; I think this is a question of which event serves as the Big Bang. You seem to think it is student loans, but I would argue that it is the decision to say that the UC system was no longer tuition free under Reagan. I would argue that supporting evidence for my case is the VA. When they started having a nominal fee for prescriptions (I haven't gone to the VA in 11 years, because I am only allowed treatment for things related to my tour of duty because of the decision to emphasize reserve components in our current wars without providing benefit parity, but when I did, I tested out), it was touted as "only a couple bucks a month," but it kept going up. Now, it's $700/year. Not as high as private insurance, sure, but hardly the free care we were promised when we served. A small nominal fee doesn't end there, because people internalize the idea that they have to pay for what was once free that the idea of making it free again is seen as radical.
Re: taxes; here in PA, we have flat taxes on income mandated by the state constitution at 3.07%. What are the results? Well, the PA Turnpike is always at or near the top of the list of worst roads in America, there is a direct correlation between the richest parts of the state and the best performing public schools, and cities that suffer because of suburban flight where people in the metro area get the advantages of the cities but don't have to pay, and a party where 66 of the counties use one as a punching bag for political points at home in hopes of gaining office but with the effect of our biggest city crumbling faster. Not exactly a triumph.
Re: wasteful spending; I am confused by your argument. Is the argument that stagnating wages aren't bad because goods are cheap, or that people should be content with their lot of making a few people very rich instead of trying to enjoy what they made? These arguments seem contradictory to me. That being said, how many actually poor people own a $1000 phone? Android has over 85% market share, and very few who buy Apple buy every new model.
I do give you credit for engaging issues honestly and respectfully. I hope I have also been as respectful to you, and I can assure you that I have tried my level best to look at your ideas. I think there is a lot of value in the Eisenhower-Rockefeller Conservatism, but I just think supply side has run its course and not worked as well as it was supposed to.
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@65minimom I guess you're one of these people who don't understand how the rules work, and then you get mad when you don't understand, and rather than learning, you take out your anger on other people. I will explain this as simply as I can, but no simpler than I need to:
1) The OP thought that there was some conspiracy by the DNC to deny Bernie the nomination by splitting money so many different ways that he can't clean up yet.
2) In the Democratic primary, delegates are awarded proportionally to "viable candidates," defined by the DNC as receiving 15% statewide or in a Congressional district as decided by the state.
3) Anti-Bernie votes are fairly fixed and finite.
4) More candidates receiving votes from the same size pool dilutes the strength of that vote.
5) With a dozen or so candidates in the centrist wing, splitting up that percentage of votes means that it is less likely for any one candidate to clear 15%.
6) If Bernie clears 15% and no other not-Bernie candidate does, Bernie gets all of the delegates in that state.
7) If the DNC is trying to encourage as many candidates to run as possible to screw Bernie over, this will backfire spectacularly.
Do you follow me now? Or, are you still going along with some conspiracy theory that is about as well thought out as any libertarian caller into the Majority Report?
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@meltedsnowman9637 You can include them, but he doesn't. It was on his website. Social Security Disability (which part of RSDI, and based on payment) was allowed, SSI (which is need based) is not. I gave the example of a single parent making $20,000/year with two kids in daycare. At that income level, probably also getting SNAP, WIC, and LIHEAP, and maybe a housing subsidy. The total package is easily worth $2000-2500/month. You tell me which is a bigger "hassle," filling out the forms once or twice a year, or having to suddenly pay a 10% VAT?
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@TheBushdoctor68 A vote that will go absolutely nowhere is the textbook definition of a symbolic vote. The bill has 118 sponsors, so it does not have nearly the votes to get passed.
So, let's say that they demand Pelsoi has a vote, and then it fails, then what happens? Then, it is dead on the table, and it will be dead for another decade to come, and Pelosi will say that she gave us what we wanted, but it is an unpopular bill that can't pass, so that is yet another excuse to ignore us. If we are going to demand leverage, it is much better to demand it for something that actually has a chance. Great plan!
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@TheNastyTank Except he didn't "solve" the issue of producing greenhouse gases through transportation. The electric car existed long before he was even a gleam in his father's eye. (Ed Begley Jr. has been driving one since the early 1970s.) The problem would only be solved if you could mass produce the Tesla, but there just aren't enough minerals to do so. He (or more accurately his engineers) would need to figure out how to make a battery that could be produced at a level well beyond what exists now. Using smaller numbers for demonstration purposes and math, 1.2% of all vehicles sold are electric. So, if you assume for demonstration purposes that there are one million cars, then 988,000 are still going to be internal combustion. If we only had the raw materials to make 100,000 cars, then the problem still exists. Not that the Tesla isn't an improvement, but at this point, its main accomplishment is to make people feel better when the problem still exists. That doesn't even go into how durable they are. There isn't enough lithium to fit every car on the road now. Ultimately, the solution may have to be fewer cars, which means that consumerism is taking us backwards. The market can't give us high density affordable housing and work close enough to that high density housing to reduce demand.
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@reav3rtm Catch and Release is a strategy perfected by Tom DeLay. It involves letting members appear to not go along fully with his agenda, while making sure that everything gets passed. As Barney Frank put it in 2005, "There are no moderate Republicans in Congress. They say that they only vote with the President 70% of the time, but they vote with him 100% of the time when he needs their votes."
So, given that strategy, and the fact that if the sponsor list is remotely accurate, Pelosi could easily allow people in lefty districts to vote for Medicare for All in order to weaken a primary challenger, only to see that member "change his/her mind" and vote No if there was ever a realistic chance if the bill passing. It's why Republicans could vote over and over to repeal the ACA, but it didn't pass when they had unified control of government. Therefore, Force the Vote doesn't "expose" anyone. It protects the worst actors, because they can pretend to support it in a cost-free vote.
Yes, Jimmy Dore cares about Medicare for All. So much so that he supported a candidate in 2020 who called it un-American in an interview with Anderson Cooper.
My plan is to do the actual grassroots organizing. If your member isn't a sponsor, you knock on doors, sign petitions, and make calls. If that member still won't sign on, you primary him/her. If your member is on the list, go to a neighboring district and help others doing the same thing. Then, once you get to 218 & 50, you put the pressure on every sponsor to make sure that he/she is a Hard Yes by pushing for a discharge petition if the Speaker and Majority Leader won't schedule a vote.
What have you actually done to get Medicare for All?
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How does it prevent people from "changing their votes"? If anything, a first past the post system means that fewer people want to be a spoiler.
I'll give you a personal example. In 2015, when I lived in Philadelphia, I really liked a lot of what Nelson Diaz was saying in his campaign. He was way behind, but I usually try to follow the logic of "vote your heart in the primary and your head in the general." Then, I saw the polling, and with a month or so to go, Anthony Hardy Williams, the voucher/charter king, was leading in the polls. This was a candidate I considered totally unacceptable. So, I started checking the polls to see if he still had the lead or if a Not Williams would emerge and make a competitive race. Jim Kenney ultimately did, with polls a week or so out showing them separated by a few points. Diaz was only polling at about 5%, so I voted for Kenney. On Election Night, Kenney won an outright majority and beat Williams by over 20 points. While I was relieved, I was annoyed that such a move turned out to be unnecessary, although chances are a lot of lefties made the same move I did of voting against Williams. If Ranked Choice Voting was a thing in Philadelphia, I could have voted Diaz as my first choice and maybe he would have had a fighter's chance, and i could have used my second vote to make the strategic decision and vote for Kenney in case he was the most likely to beat Williams.
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This past fall, I went to the National Apple Harvest Festival with my daughter. She wanted to get something from a certain vendor, but as soon as I saw not only his Trump shirt at the back, but his T-shirt showing vitriol towards Democrats, I told her we weren't getting it. For me, I'm not really going to look for the ideology of the business, but if they show it off, I won't go there. Admittedly, if I lived in a red area, I understand that such decisions would be very difficult (like I don't give people grief in certain areas for doing most of their shopping at Wal-Mart because it's the only game in town), but ultimately it is up to each of us to decide our line and respect the judgment of others as they truthfully examine their consciences about it.
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@pinkwolf2537 Well, it should be based on actual losses. You don't just throw out some random number that, oh by the way, would make you the most funded candidate of all, and then there would be a question of whether or not that would violate campaign finance laws. When I ran for a legislative seat, I was splitting the cost of a venue for a debate with my opponent. He wanted to give me the money to cover his half, but the Secretary of State said that if the money went through my campaign at all, it was considered a contribution. So, I had to pay my half, and he had to pay separately. Admittedly, different sets of rules, but I just don't see how that amount of damage is viable, and she should be using campaign finds to reach out to voters instead of paying legal fees.
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@Cameron_Merrill If it's only about media coverage, why did Bernie rise so highly the last time around? With the billions of free media Trump got, why did he never lead in the national popular vote poll? The polls broke late, as often happens, and the polls were within the margin of error nationally (Hillary +3.5 vs. +2.1) and in all but two states (PA & WI), the latter of which wasn't polled after September.
It is true that there is a bit of a Catch-22 in getting attention, but if a candidate is getting less than the margin of error consistently, and it takes 15% of the vote in a state or Congressional district to get delegates, and failure means that votes go into the ether, the odds of someone doing anything other than not getting delegates, thus wasting everyone's time, is increased. Again, if someone isn't getting 2% now (and that's not even the average, but in four of literally dozens of polls), what makes you think that person will get to 15%? And if you like the rapid fire debates where you can't dig deep, then encourage everyone to stay in by all means, but I would rather actually see substance.
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Donald Smith And where did you mention doing the actual hard work required of taking over the party? How many people are actually running for spots on their local executive committee, or running for spots on city council, school board, or state legislature? Our Revolution was encouraging people to do that, but I have seen the sour grapes section of the left insist that they worked hard for this campaign (or even both of Bernie's Presidential campaigns), but since he lost, that "proves" that electoral politics doesn't work, when all it proves is that there wasn't enough infrastructure for it to be a success. It took 16 years for the right to remake American politics after the defeat of Goldwater, and it took 40 years for the Populist movement and Socialists movements to get the New Deal. Any plan that doesn't show that degree of commitment is too lazy to beat the establishment. I, for one, don't want to see it made impossible to change anything because six or seven of the ten most right-wing Supreme Court Justices since 1900 are all there at the same time.
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@OwentheKingofDudes Look up who is affected by the policies. When PA passed a voter ID bill, the then-House Majority Leader (now Speaker) Mike Turzai said, "Voter ID, so Mitt Romney can win our electoral votes. Done." Statewide, 9% of the population did not have photo ID, but 18% didn't in Philadelphia, the biggest Democratic stronghold in the state. It ultimately got overturned because its advocates could not find one example of in-person voter fraud, but demographically and ideologically, they knew who they were targeting.
Or, look at NC-9, where all those absentee ballots got tampered with. Yeah, Republicans never did that at all.
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@estherc.5559 He told Dave Rubin that his ultimate goal was to end the existing social safety net, but he saw this as a politically palatable way to do so. Funny how when talking to lefty opponents of Yang, you Yang Gang bangers insist that he never said what he clearly did.
And why is "choice a bad thing"? Because everyone else gets both/and. Why does some millionaire get every penny of a deduction for a mortgage on a mansion (which is way more than $12,000/year) while the poor and disabled have to choose? Now, why is this a bad deal to make it either/or? Imagine a single parent making $20,000/year. This parent has two small children who need daycare, or else the parent can't work at all. The average daycare subsidies in this situation far exceed what the Freedom with 125 Strings Attached Dividend has to offer. So, not only does this single parent not get a penny, but he/she now has to pay more for purchases because Yang used a VAT. And did I mention that someone with that income level is probably also getting WIC and SNAP, and possibly housing subsidies?
And this response about companies not raising prices is just wishful thinking, which is what is required to make the numbers work. Funny how a guy who liked to wear a MATH pin lied about his math repeatedly.
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@bru1016 I would if he called it single payer, because keeping competing private insurance is, by definition, not single payer. Medicare for All is a single payer system that expressly prohibits competing health insurance. Tulsi Gabbard said that was un-American. Play the video.
As I said to the other tulcel, I look at the principle involved rather than the person, so you're argument that I am going to jump up and down and support something just because Bernie says it shows that you don't understand the point at all.
Is a public option preferable to what we have now? Yes, it is. Is it Medicare for All? No, it is not. "Choice" is the exact word that John Delaney tried to shove down people's throats in his bid to protect his stock value, I mean for President. Tulsi Gabbard embraced that framing when talking about health insurance. Therefore, she abandoned Medicare for All. Either that, or she is incredibly stupid when it comes to politics, and I don't think she is stupid.
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@TheBigShaun100 14 years ago, at a Young Dems event, I said, "If we don't stop going halfway when Republicans keep pulling the political spectrum farther to the right, before you know it, Newt Gingrich will be considered a liberal." People laughed, and I said, "That might seem funny now, but Barry Goldwater is already considered a moderate." In 2012, Gingrich got in trouble for supporting the Republican alternative to Hillarycare (aka, the framework for the ACA) until 2009, and supporting action on global warming. I wasn't wrong.
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@ECisvotersuppression It depends on what you mean by cheat. They clearly put their thumbs on the scales by burying the debates when no one would watch them and violating neutrality rules, but going from name recognition lower than the margin of error to 44% of the vote was pretty miraculous. If you would have asked most Bernie supporters in the summer of 2015 if they would have taken that result, they absolutely would. (My "optimistic scenario" at the time was that Bernie got 25% in an early state and used that momentum to keep fighting all the way.)
However, that does not mean that if the DNC would have been completely neutral that Bernie would have gotten to a majority. His own campaign, and the candidate himself, didn't expect him to win, but wanted to pull Hillary to the left when he started. If you look at his Senate schedule, he clearly didn't think he had a chance to win until it was too late to get the needed infrastructure in place. That being said, if he got a majority of pledged delegates, he would have won the nomination, just like in the other two scenarios that I presented, Obama and Kerry got the majority of superdelegates in the end.
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@sherlyn.a My dear God! What is with the people who cannot tell the difference between "lose" and "loose"? The former is the opposite of win, and the latter is the opposite of tight.
Oh, poor Jeff Bezos lost half of his money because he got divorced. Cry me a river. No one forced him to cheat on his wife.
And, no one is going to make a million dollars and spend 80% in cash to buy a house. And Gates wouldn't have to give up shares to the government. He could, but he wouldn't have to. Let's just say that the strictest wealth tax proposal went through, the one that Bernie proposed. He is married, so he would pay 1% on assets over $32MM, 2% on assets over $50MM, 3% over $250MM, 4% over $500MM, 5% over $1B, 6% over $2.5B, 7% over $5B, and 8% over $10B. Since marginal rates only apply to the level above the bracket, this means $180,000 for the first bracket, $4MM for the 2% bracket, $7.5MM for the 3% bracket, $20MM for the 4% bracket, $75MM for the 5% bracket, $150MM for the 6% bracket, $350MM for the 7% bracket, and (assuming a total fortune of $100B even to make the math round for demonstration purposes), $7.2B for the top bracket, for a total tax of a little bit over $7.8B. Here's a secret: this tax wouldn't even get to the average for stock market growth since 1929, so he would still get to keep his obscene fortune that was gained through underpaying workers, stealing ideas from competitors, and using basic government research to get started, not to mention government infrastructure to move his products, a military that insures that we won't be invaded, and a relatively steady economy so that he could build. Anyone who claims to be self-made is someone who thinks he/she is floating through the air without seeing the building he/she is standing on.
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If you want to understand Manchin, I actually knew him at one point. I ran for WV House of Delegates in 2006 while he was governor, and even a year after the campaign was over, he recognized me by name and face. With that background, here is what you need to understand: with few exceptions, Manchin will go just as far to the left as he needs to go to defeat any primary challenge, and not an inch farther.
There have been exceptions, but something has to stir him in order for that to happen. I can think of two (when he raised the state minimum wage, there was a lot of pressure there, so he got in front of it): after two coal mine explosions in the first two weeks of 2006, Manchin closed every mine in the state until full safety audits were completed and a mine safety bill was passed. It took three days. The other was after Sandy Hook where he pushed the background check bill. He lost his A rating from the NRA with that one, and I am sure that cost him in the general. Either appeal to his emotions or his calculations, but he can be moved.
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@brasshouse-fireball Here in Philadelphia, several groups (I did it with DSA and Philly for Bernie, but others such as Health Care 4 All PA and Neighborhood Networks played a role as well) did just that, and we got two members of Congress to sponsor the bill (Dwight Evans and Brendan Boyle). It can be done, because it has been done.
And again, forcing a vote in hopes that a primary challenge would defeat them ignores the fact that Biden won the nomination while saying that he wouldn't sign the bill. If your theory of the case was accurate, Biden would have lost.
You can hold your breath and have tantrums all you want, but if you are too lazy to do the actual work (which is what Force the Vote is an admission of), you'll never be able to do that much work to defeat 104 incumbents in primaries. And forcing the vote will ruin any goodwill for getting it passed. Your way is like saying, "It takes too long to put the car engine back together, so I want to put it on the road right now."
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@jordanwirth3738 I think I can answer that question (although, if anyone you know had a pre-existing condition and can now get it, or anyone between the ages of 22 and 26 who were able to stay on their parents' plans, or women with gynecological issues, they benefited even if they didn't see it). Basically, there are four ways to get to universal or near universal coverage. Going from left to right, they are nationalization (think the NHS or the VA), single payer (think Canada or Medicare), managed competition/public option (Hillarycare in the 90s and the early drafts of the ACA), and universal mandate (what the ACA became). The full name of what many call Obamacare is The Affordable Care and Patient Protection Act of 2010. Something Sam Seder said that I think was very accurate about it was that it was undersold on the patient protection part and oversold on affordability, which is partly why many people tend to think of the ACA as only the exchanges.
However, its ultimate shortcoming is that it was designed with the assumption that people can just be "smart shoppers" when it comes to health care, so market forces really can't do as much to lower prices. After all, nobody will know what emergencies will befall you over the next year. Since you can't really say no to treating a heart attack, market forces of competition don't lower prices. The market incentive for private insurance is to deny care, because that is cutting costs. The market incentive under a single payer or nationalized plan ends up spreading the risk over everyone and gives incentive to ask for lower prices, like a massive bulk discount. That's why it is a more efficient approach than the ACA.
Republicans haven't been able to come up with an alternative to the ACA in ten years of yelling "repeal and replace" because a) what became the ACA was imagined as their alternative to Hillarycare, and b) there's nowhere they can go to the right of the ACA and still offer anything remotely near universal coverage. This is why their repeal attempt in 2017 would have resulted in 24-32MM people losing their health insurance according to the CBO.
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@xaqbennett You can say that nobody wants to all you want, but when someone says "the disabled won't benefit from my plan," I take him at his word. When someone says that he wants to ultimately get rid of the existing social safety net by letting it wither on the vine, I believe him.
As far as "the perfect being the enemy of the good," never mind that this is often an excuse that I have heard from elected officials who do nothing, the ultimate question is who benefits. If I take your estimate at face value that 70% will benefit, that sounds good at first, but when the 30% that don't are the most vulnerable in society, and those 30% will have to pay a regressive tax to pay for something that won't benefit them, then I think this is a net negative. If it was the 30% who needed help the least who didn't benefit, then that is far different than what you are talking about. As FDR reminded us, society should be judged by how we treat the poorest, not how much the rich get.
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@afrodinho Yes, Chile is a fascist regime.
Again, you are conflating authoritarian regimes with fascism. If you notice, I used the word "authoritarian regimes." And, I know several Iranians, and fascist isn't the word they used. Maybe because they were graduate level and actually understood definitions of word. Again, I posted a link that lists 14 very specific characteristics of fascist regimes. I am not saying that it means right wing authoritarian, because it is once again a subset. If you made a Venn diagram, it would be inside, but it would not occupy the same space. If you meet a few of the criteria, you're probably not a fascist, but a different strain of authoritarian. You probably think that if someone has breast cancer, that person also has prostate cancer.
I am from the United States. I learned that you don't insist that the second definition (that also says "colloquial" is not the definition that is accurate when plenty of people keep telling you that it's not) os correct when it is not the formal one. Do you think it's accurate when people use "literally" when they mean "figuratively," even though it is literally the exact opposite? Or is that a bridge too far?
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The biggest irony is how many people insist that her father, one John Sidney McCain III, got where he did on merit, and the apple fell far from the tree. Well, he was a legacy admission to the Naval Academy (whose father and grandfather were admirals), graduated next to last in his class, and crashed five planes. And he is the one who told his captors that his father was the commander of the Pacific fleet (which is why he got the offer to go home early), far more than name, rank, and serial number. Oh, and he made it to captain. Nothing to sneeze at, but not an admiral. So, it looks like he also got where he was because "John McCain is my father." The only difference is that he was smart enough not to constantly say it, and he at least accomplished things other than being the child of his father.
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@blazedones She never said that it is morally wrong in all situations, it is a war crime, and she was wrong to even suggest that it might ever be acceptable. I saw the interview, and (after Jimmy's flippant response of trying to "get it out of the way" and breathing a sigh of relief after her initial no without explanation, that doesn't show that he was an honest broker on that question and just wanted to hear the magic phrase) she insisted that she was being misrepresented, because who are we going to believe, her or our lying eyes and ears? On Status Coup, she said that she hadn't yet read a 2014 report that said it didn't work. On this issue, there can be no equivocation. Since her statements as to why she now says she opposes it all have to do with its efficacy, that tells me that another report might get her to change her mind yet again on torture, so until she apologizes for the 2014 interview rather than dismissing it, and opposes torture on moral grounds, I will not trust her on torture.
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@alexanderthered5603 Well, then we need to figure out how wrongful death lawsuits against someone acquitted plays into this. According to the law, he is not guilty, but he is liable (or, as Dave Chappelle put it through a white woman singing, "OJ didn't do it... Yeah, he probably did it"), which seems like a mixed message to me. My point as far as the burden of proof is that the vote isn't for guilty or innocence, but whether or not the state is able to prove guilt. The state didn't prove guilt, and the defense didn't prove his innocence, either.
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@matthewrobinson7379 Oh, I have known some fundamentalists like that in my day, which reminds me of a joke.
Peter was taking someone through the pearly gates of heaven. Soon, they come to a building, and Peter says, "These are the Baptists. Make sure to be quiet as we pass by." Then, he comes to another building, and says, "These are the Methodists. Make sure to be quiet as we pass by." Then, he comes to another building, and says, "These are the Presbyterians. Make sure to be quiet as we pass by." Finally, the guy asks him why he keeps telling him not to say anything, and Peter says, "Because they think they're the only ones here."
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@carlosb5523 What has Yang done for the past decade? Well, after making his fortune on test-prep software and trying his hand at making lightning strike twice, Yang started a non-profit organization in 2011 that he said would lead to 100,000 jobs by 2025. All the while, he went on the TED talk circle and was feted about how much of a difference maker he really was, but in reality, after an initial splash, the number of applicants plummeted, there are fewer than 400 jobs more than halfway to the deadline, and half left the communities he sent them to for greener pastures:
https://www.vox.com/recode/2019/6/13/18637853/andrew-yang-venture-for-america-jobs-record
No, thanks. One businessman who became President vastly overstates his accomplishments is more than enough for a lifetime.
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@TowelReady Well, I gave an example. And what do you mean by "support"? Just running some lefty, especially one who lets ego get in the way when a group that supports her sees the writing on the wall and puts its emphasis on a candidate who has an actual chance of winning at the end (the documentary that includes Swearingen and AOC, among others, expected to end with losses for all, so AOC winning changed its entire narrative), then it's not going to work. The fact that people keep mentioning Ojeda tells me that those people don't know WV politics. The 70-80 years of taking power for granted followed by inaction once that power was lost is not something that can be fixed in one cycle. It will take time. I ran for office in WV in 2006 (House of Delegates, but I moved out of state and still have family and friends there), and I remember hearing long-term elected officials worried that they had to run on issues when they never had before, so they weren't sure how to do that. WV Can't Wait will take time to work, but something like it is the only chance in the end.
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@anonymouszebra1239 You are so right. I think that another thing that hurts us is that too many people have given up on labor and class issues after the ascendancy of Bill Clinton. People tend to forget this, but from 1932-96, no state voted Democratic in Presidential elections more often than WV (14-3 [1956, 1972, 1984 being the exceptions]: Massachusetts and Minnesota tied for second with 13-4). If people want to blame racism, note that this is both before and after the Southern shift in the 1960s and '70s.
However, I think that some talk of white privilege is alienating, because if you tell a poor person in Appalachia that he/she is inherently advantaged, that person will say, "If this is privilege, what is hardship?" I am not saying who has it harder, but when you talk privilege to people who are suffering, that only leads to resentment.
And, because of the focus on cultural issues, some want to give up on rural voters altogether. I was at an election night party at the union hall in November, and someone asked me why I thought we started losing in places like WV, and how to get them back. I laid out my theory of full-throttled left-wing (or real) populism, and someone was offended, insisting that these were racists who were irredeemable. Well, white conservatives talk down to black liberals and wonder why they won't vote Republican, so why would rural white people. That's also why I never, ever give thumbs up to anyone who talks about inbreeding when badmouthing Trump voters. When we figure out who the real enemy is, and we help rural America understand who we are fighting, they will come running back.
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@GormTheElder What is your evidence that a majority supports Medicare for All? Do not say polls, because even if people agree with you on an issue, it doesn't mean a thing if it doesn't affect how people vote.
In 2016, Colorado had a ballot initiative for Medicare for All. It got 21%.
In 2020, Biden said that he wouldn't sigh Medicare for All during the beginning of the pandemic (since the Force the Vote people love to use that as a talking point) and his polling numbers in the primary didn't move, so it doesn't sound like a vote over a year out is going to have the desired effect if the sponsor list more or less is accurate and defeat over 100 incumbents.
The poll that the Force the Vote people love to point out to insist that all they need is the vote to garner public support shows some much more discouraging things below the headline question. A majority think that Medicare for All will allow people to keep their private insurance (and a higher percentage of supporters think that), and support drops below 50% when asked if they support a single payer system. I have done the actual organizing work, and I have heard similar responses several times. So, you have to do the actual work to make sure that support is not really for a public option and that it will actually move people at the ballot box.
No, this is not a video game, but that applies in ways that help my argument rather than yours, because it requires that people to get off their butts and do the actual work. And given that all of the talk is about going after members of the party where a majority in the House have sponsored the bill and none of it is targeting the party where literally zero members support it, that tells me that there is no strategic thought at all to this plan. Organizing isn't about instant gratification or a willy waving contest. It is about going to your neighbors and making your representation know what you want.
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@SacredGrovesCorner Which party did Strom Thurmond belong to in 1964? That is the key turning point: from 1964 on, Republicans nominated candidates nine times who were on the record on the Voting Rights Act, and Democrats did four. All four (LBJ, HHH, McGovern, and Mondale) publicly supported it. Five times (Goldwater, Reagan twice, Bush twice) Republicans nominated opponents of the Civil Rights Act, and nominated supporters four times (Nixon twice, Ford, and Dole). Not even a winning record.
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@davidclawson4733 You are so right, David! I voted Bernie, and I wasn't happy that Hillary was the nominee, but I live in a swing state, so there was no doubt in my mind who was the less bad candidate, and thus who I would vote for.
I have voted third-party on down ballot questions before. Strategic example: Philadelphia has seven at-large city councillors, but you can only vote for five. Knowing the Democrats run way, way ahead of Republicans, I used one of my five votes for the Green candidate. In 2004, I lived in WV, and I voted for Jesse Johnson, the Mountain Party candidate. Manchin won in a landslide, but if the race was close (the final margin ended up being 63-34-3), would I have voted for Manchin to keep a literal slumlord out of the governor's office? You bet I would!
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@ubuu7 So, you want a VAT to redistribute wealth, but the rich pay a lower effective tax rate, and the poorest are forced to choose between their current benefits and his plan?
If Yang was really interested in the redistribution of wealth, he would support progressive taxes instead of something that screws over the poor and is the equivalent of hitting the gas and the brakes at the same time for most of the population.
And let's just say for the sake of argument that Yang is right about automation. And that, instead of giving workers actual power or requiring businesses to act in the interest of the stakeholder rather than the shareholder, the only way to do that is through the freedom with 125 strings attached dividend and a regressive tax. It turns out that he also told Ben Shapiro that "the magic of a thousand bucks a month is that it is below the poverty level for one person, so it forces people to work if they want any life of meaning." So, he is opposed to increasing it and wants to keep it as a program that is universal nor basic income. And if there aren't any jobs left in the future, we will end up with a few trillionaires and everyone else scraping by on less than the poverty level for one person. Great plan!
Oh, and there are different levels of annoyance. Yours rises to the level of leaving out the asterisk. The worst are the ones who literally don't understand basic terms no matter how many times they are presented.
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@keirenle You know what the beauty of a progressive income tax is? Unlike a tax on consumption, it is possible to make a system of, in the words of the lead sponsor of the Sixteenth Amendment Cordell Hull, "no tax on the amount needed to live, with a graduated tax above that level."
My state exempts groceries, clothing, medicine, and diapers, and has some excise taxes, including luxury items. This is who actually pays:
https://itep.org/whopays/pennsylvania
If you are fine with a system where the poorest 20% pay nearly ten times what the richest 1% do as a percentage of income, that is your right, but don't pretend that it is anything other than a ridiculously regressive system that hurts the poor.
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@TheClayCoKid I voted for Bernie, and I actually did the work. However, Bernie did not get the most votes. Coalescing around one candidate is something that people do to win elections. It's called being smart. If Elizabeth Warren wasn't controlled opposition, she would have dropped out after New Hampshire and endorsed Bernie. If he had a showing as poor as hers in New Hampshire, he would have done so, because he is an honest person. Maybe if lefties would have coalesced around a candidate in MA-4, we wouldn't be stuck with such a horrible candidate.
If you think that is the equivalent of kidnapping children, forced sterilization, stormtroopers kidnapping peaceful protesters, and ignoring the effects of coronavirus, you clearly have your priorities all wrong, and are just fine with people suffering because you didn't get your way. Maybe you don't understand me because I'm not a psychopath.
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@tommccarthy3052 It reminds me of the saddest and most shameful political statistic I have ever heard: even though he lost the run-off in a landslide, if it was solely up to white voters, David Duke would have been elected governor of Louisiana in 1991. At the time, most of the Republican establishment condemned him, and Poppy Bush even endorsed the Democrat, but despite all that, a majority of white voters in Louisiana were fine with the unrepentant former head of the KKK to lead their state.
Speaking of Goldwater, since his landslide loss, the high water mark for Democrats among white voters was 45% by Carter in 1976 and Obama in 2008. And I actually heard people say that it's a mark against Democrats for not getting a majority of white voters in decades. Well, maybe if more white voters were ready to look at the honest truth instead of pandering and scapegoating, that wouldn't be the case. Republicans are scared because this is the only group they've got, and they don't even try to win over a majority of voters anymore.
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@tommccarthy3052 And Republicans insist on people forgetting that in order to win over white voters who aren't so comfortable with such obvious racism (see: the infamous Lee Atwater interview where he talks about what you can say in 1954 that you can't by 1968). I remember Knowing Better did a great video about that. In order to get to the deeper truth when Republicans brag (accurately, but misleadingly) about having higher percentages as a party voting for the Civil Rights Act of 1964, he broke it down by party and by region (basically, did your state try to leave the Union a century earlier), and in both chambers, Southern Democrats voted for the bill in a higher percentage than Southern Republicans (it was either 0 or 1 total voting for it for the latter, although I'm pretty sure it was the former), and the Northern Democrats voted for the bill in a higher percentage than the Northern Republicans. It's just that the Solid Democratic South was still largely a thing, and that distorts the national picture. You can also look to the fact that, of the nine times Republicans nominated someone for President who voted or took a public position on the CRA, five were opponents (Goldwater, Reagan twice, Bush twice); whereas of the five people Democrats nominated with a vote or public statement on the bill, all supported it (LBJ, HHH, McGovern, Mondale, Dukakis). Ignorance and cherry picking are needed in order to get away with the switch.
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@Toad2943 I have been saying this for quite some time, and I will keep repeating it until people understand the rules. Splitting votes by having a dozen candidates would backfire spectacularly if the goal is to keep Bernie from getting a majority of pledged delegates.
Here is why. A candidate has to get 15% statewide or in a Congressional district, depending on the rules in each state. If you have, say, eight establishment candidates still in the race who do not meet that threshold who get 30% of the vote, that vote goes into the ether. If Bernie wins a state with 40% of the vote, but only 60% of the vote goes to viable candidates, Bernie will get 2/3 of the delegates. A lot of establishment candidates makes it easier for Bernie to win, not harder, because the longer it takes them to coalesce around one or two candidates, the longer they will be defeating themselves.
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@j.israelsson Yeah, that's a pretty big asterisk that you didn't include in the first post. Even granting that, there were a lot of people in Michigan and Wisconsin who thought their state surely would hold in 2016 (probably PA, too, but the numbers were always fairly close). There were also people in Georgia who didn't think they had a shot in 2020. Surprises and realignments happen all the time. The bluest state from 1932-1996? West Virginia. The reddest state in American history before 1992? Vermont.
But, let's assume that you're right and nobody inadvertently makes it easier for Trump to win. You've played it smart, and voted for a candidate who isn't actually doing any organizing (I'm on her e-mail list because I gave her a dollar to get on stage in 2019, and she pretty much disappeared for three years, whereas Bernie focused on his job, kept people going about issues, and endorsed down ballot candidates) and she gets maybe 5% of the delegates if she's really lucky, and West doesn't play spoiler, and he even gets the Green Party matching funds, what exactly does that accomplish? Maybe you missed the part of the video where the last third party to get matching funds fell from 8.5% in 1996 to 0.43% in 2000, and was basically dead by the next election cycle. In American history, only Perot ever got 5% in consecutive elections, and he fell from 19% without matching funds to 8.5% with them.
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@j.israelsson There is, but third-party Presidential campaigns ain't it. Any movement worth anything starts from the ground up, but it takes time, and it takes work, and any time I ask the people who say they gave up after Bernie didn't become President what they did, with one exception, I either get silence or excuses. It took the right 16 years after Goldwater lost to take charge, and they had money on their side. If people are truly committed to their ideals and making things better, they need to stop being so lazy. I did everything I could to help Bernie win in 2020, and in 2022, I came back to help a friend try to win a state senate seat and this year tried to help a mayoral candidate. This fall, I might be helping a township council candidate.
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@schumanhuman Yes, Yang made it either/or, but his long-term goal was the elimination of the current social safety net. And this is incredibly problematic. Take a single parent with two young kids. That parent makes $20,000/year. Daycare for two costs over $1500/month, so this subsidy is worth over $1000/month, so you are looking at telling that single parent that either he/she can give up the subsidy and have to give up the job in order to get the $1000/month, or turn it down and see costs increase.
Re: land tax, so you want to punish the rural poor? It's no wonder this idea came from an urban dweller who didn't understand how that would effect people in rural areas. For example, my brother bought a tract of land that is 29 acres because he wanted the trailer on the land, but you can't develop the land, because most of it is nowhere near a road, and it had an old cemetery on it. A lot of people in rural area own plots of lands that can't be developed or would completely kill the whole point of living in a rural area in the first place.
Re: rent control, if it distorts the market and inflates housing costs, why did Toronto see its homelessness quintuple within five years of Ontario abolishing it? Not the theory, the actual effects of the policies.
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@emileconstance5851 Thank you for your appreciation. You and others in your situation are why I do the work I do. Yes, I would appreciate a more generous system. The last four years, our church has had a program where we agree to reduce our food spending during Lent to the SNAP limit and donating the difference between that and our regular spending to an anti-hunger charity (we have picked Heifer International each year). This year, there was a 15% increase in SNAP benefits, and the difference was night and day. I get that it doesn't fully capture the experience because I know that it ends on Easter, but the previous amounts were ridiculously low, and then you have the people wisecracking about how expensive it is, but they wouldn't last a week, let alone a month and a half or permanently.
After a while, I came to realize that the real Yang came out to right wing audiences, because there was no benefit in pandering to people who couldn't vote for him.
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@rowanlees9779 First of all, when someone complains that someone else isn't holding someone accountable, don't join in the feeding frenzy.
Second, and more important is to understand that 1) building the grassroots movement necessary to complete a realignment takes a long time (the last one took 16 years and had big money on its side), and 2) always be building. Once there is a concrete need, call your elected officials, write letters, sign petitions, and encourage others do the same. And keep doing that to hold the people who win to the fire whether you voted for them or not. Don't be a jerk about it, but be firm and polite in calls and letters. Sooner or later, the people who answer those calls will know who you are. That is the only way that shoe leather can beat wallet leather.
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@GLORYNEVADASMITH So, they are part of the conspiracy, too? The theory has been quite obvious for a while: peak at the right time. Harris made her move at the first debate, and look at where she is. Any candidate who made their move early is already crumbling, and even the MSM has begun to realize that he is peaking at the right time.
So, let me get this straight, you have no ability to do anything like talking to other people in order to try to help a once in a lifetime candidate win, but you have all of this energy and ability to organize a flash mob if he doesn't? [In Dr. Evil voice]: Riiight.
Well, since you want to talk about skills, here is mine: I am very good at finding the logical inconsistencies and contradictions in just about every argument. So, f you want to come at me with excuses, make sure that they are at least something where the most basic debater or lawyer wouldn't be able to do a flow sheet and see the obvious problems.
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@marci.abraham Well, I would suggest that seeing what it is based on and the actual evidence is vital. When Bernie supporters insist that the field is so big not because a) a lot of people who probably should have run the last time who were afraid of the Clinton machine and b) people who thought, "if Trump could win, so can I," it greatly affects our credibility. Running 15 candidates mist likely means over 20% of the vote goes into the ether, thus making it easier for viable candidates to get delegates.
Saying "it is impossible for Bernie to win the nomination on the first ballot, so go protest" dampens enthusiasm, which is why it so angers me when I hear "the DNC won't let Bernie win." If they deny him the nomination no matter what, why are we giving up our weeknights and Saturdays to go do the work to get him to 1990? If people want to help Bernie, then they should help. If they think that this conspiracy is real, then provide better evidence than something that disregards the threshold for winning pledged delegates. If others see that such despair is counterproductive, even if the person I am talking to doesn't, then I would argue that it was beneficial to draw out the hypothesis and test it.
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@sps000111 I will make it as simple as possible. Here are the numbers for South Korea, Japan, and the United States.
South Korea: deaths, 1959; population, 51.71MM (1 per 26,396 people)
Japan: deaths, 12,926; population, 126.3MM (1 per 9771 people)
United States: deaths, 609,767; population, 331MM (1 per 543 people)
Even their worst is better than our best, because we clearly mishandled this "benign virus" in the beginning and they didn't. Both countries have much greater population density, and they still did much better overall. I can point to plenty examples of countries that did it right and didn't see nearly as many deaths.
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@Airola I freely concede that ratings were dropping, but in all honesty, David Lynch never really had mainstream sensibilities, anyway, except for maybe The Elephant Man. It amazes me that the same network that had the TGIF line-up also took a chance on Twin Peaks, and at least for a little while, it was huge. Even if you didn't watch it (I was 10-11 during it's original run, so I was too young for it), you at least heard something about it, and when they were about to reveal the killer, it was in the voice over to pretty much every show credits. Then again, maybe it was never built to last. My point was that I don't fault Lynch for thinking that more could have been done had they let the mystery stay alive. He may have been right, he may have been wrong, but I don't blame the man for having a vision.
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@brentnoury7626 You are defending Jimmy Dore and his strategy. He is the one pushing MPP.
And why are Republicans more effective at getting things done than Democrats? Well, because they are and have been since at least the 1910s, a much more ideologically consistent party than the Democrats. Like it or not, the people who elected Joe Manchin want different things than the people who elected AOC, so there are always limits. That, and since all Republicans really want are tax cuts for the rich and judicial appointments, they are just fine gumming up the works.
People point to FDR and LBJ, but what they forget is that they both had much larger majorities when they got stuff done (which meant they had a margin for error), and they didn't have to face a silent filibuster that one party has taken to mean that everything requires a supermajority to pass the Senate, either. It's not enough to say that you want things, it takes a strategy, and anyone who is advocating a third party strategy rather than taking over the Democratic Party has a strategy that is doomed to fail.
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@5675492 The candidate with the most money doesn't always win. As someone who has actually run for office, I would argue that anything over and above getting your name out, mobilizing voters, and talking about issues is wasted. (In my race, I ended up raising $3400 for a seat in the WV House of Delegates, but looking back, it probably would have taken $8000-$9000 to run a solid campaign to get the word out.) Yes, getting money out of politics is the reform that makes all other reforms possible, but people can still decide that they don't want what people are selling. Sadly, I think that what 2020 showed is that probably a third of Bernie's vote in 2016 was from people who were more against Hillary than for him. While we can complain about the tactics used to clear the field, voters still let it happen.
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@5675492 Before he went all MAGA and just wrote about how crazy the workplace is, I remember reading something by Scott Adams that I thought did an excellent job of explaining corruption in politics. He said that it could either be that politics attracted corrupt people (which he didn't see as likely), honest people enter politics and get corrupted (which he didn't think was very likely, but I can see how it is possible when you get in that bubble), or that people were corrupt, and we just notice it more often in politicians. He thought it was the last of the three. I have been around long enough to have personally known some pretty cynical people in politics personally or somewhat superficially behind closed doors, but probably no more than the population as a whole. That being said, I think that money in politics is what makes the corruption worse. There has to be a way of fighting the government to K Street pipeline.
It often comes up in these conversations, but I don't like term limits because I think that people should vote people out or keep them in. When I still lived in WV, I wanted to give Byrd a ninth term. After I moved to PA, I wanted to deny a sixth to Specter. Both should have been my right.
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@madcow1998 Are any of those things protected Constitutional rights, or are those things that are voluntary purchases? Why not just finish the out of touch bingo and mention airplane tickets while you're at it? If you are poor, elderly, or live in a major metropolitan area, you are less likely to drive, and less likely to have a photo ID. When my adopted home state of Pennsylvania tried it nine years ago (before it was struck down by a court), about 9% of adults statewide didn't have an ID that was acceptable under the law, but 18% didn't in Philadelphia. Texas had a voter ID law that allowed gun licenses to count, but not college ID. Requiring an ID for absentee ballots (a la Georgia) and not allowing others to drop off the ballot for you (Florida) also make it more difficult. Then again, one side knows that it can't win in a democracy, so rather than adapting (which every political party did), they are trying to kill democracy.
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@vincesmith2499 When you had your way about the minimum wage, poverty was much higher. And, yes, if you are a business owner, and you insist that every penny earned is yours, you tend to give workers as little as you possibly can. Once you work with other businesses to keep wages low (since you don't believe in antitrust laws or doing anything to help anyone who isn't already rich and/or propertied), poverty goes up, interfering with my freedom to not starve.
Personally, I don't think that an existence that is cold, nasty, brutish, and short is very free at all.
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@onepartyroule Yeah, so you didn't see what was clearly reading off a teleprompter? Of course, they have to backtrack after allowing an assault to take place during their event.
Re: the worse thing to do, last I checked, assault and battery was a crime. Telling jokes about hair loss isn't. Even if he knew that she had alopecia, this was not an appropriate response. How many bald jokes has Will Smith made over the years, but as a character and as himself? Not an episode of The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air went by without a bald and/or weight joke about Uncle Phil, and most included short jokes about Carlton. Well, James Avery really was bald and stocky, and Alfonso Ribiero really is short, so those are about the person, not the character.
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@cosmicgiraffe4071 Gore specifically said in 2002 that the Iraq War made no sense. Had he been President, the Afghanistan War could have also been much, much shorter.
It's not enough to "harness discontent." You have to also have the credibility to mobilize and get votes. Not only did Nader directly make a difference in Florida and possibly New Hampshire, but his campaign gained a lot more traction in Washington, Oregon, and Wisconsin, which forced Gore to put more effort there to shore up his support.
Nader is not the only example. In 2016, Johnson and Stein both got more support from Clinton than Trump. (Exit polling which combines Johnson and Stein shows a huge preference for Clinton, and Johnson got three times the support Stein did, so it's obvious he also drew support from Clinton.) It was definitely enough to make the difference in Michigan and Wisconsin, and possibly enough to make the difference in Pennsylvania. Again, it's not just about states that spoilers directly affect, it is also about the shifting of resource that harms efforts in other close states.
Trump undercut any effort to get coronavirus under control and pushed quack "cures." He deserves zero credit for his response to coronavirus.
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@DavidRichardson153 In addition to the issues that Susi raised, some people get more than $1000/month now. Given that Yang never gave a full list of the 125 programs that would be either/or, based on the few that he did specify (TANF, SNAP, WIC, SSI, LIHEAP, daycare subsidies, housing subsidies), here are some examples:
1) SSI is $841, and SNAP for one person is $250. People who get the former almost always get the latter.
2) New Hampshire has TANF of over $1000, with Alaska, New York, and California over $700. You have to have a kid to get TANF, and SNAP for two people is $459.
3) Daycare for two children is over $1500/month.
4) Housing subsidies can easily he worth $1000 in high rent areas, and people who qualify for that usually qualify for other things as well.
Not only do those people not get more money, but now they have to pay a regressive VAT, which means that they have to stretch that money even farther.
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@alwayz247 Either you are mistaken, or you are lying. At the time, I heard people say that they equally go after both sides, so I looked at their radars for samples, and every single time, I had to wade through several going after Biden and Democrats to find one going after Trump and Republicans.
The dynamic was as follows:
KB: Democrats are bad, so don't vote for then.
SE: Democrats are bad, so vote for Republicans.
And don't go to how great Krystal Ball is, because as stated in their book, their goal is to work together to find a new political coalition. You have to look at their entire body of work, and red/brown alliances never work out for the left.
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@highneedforcognition9660 She clearly did not, because she then gave the ticking time bomb scenario, and said that any leader "will do whatever it takes to protect the people," and "some analysts said it was effective."
If she was "thinking on her feet," then she was clearly willing to allow that there was a circumstance where it would be acceptable if it worked. Never mind that studies had repeatedly shown that it didn't work before that, she was willing to have it overturned. Or, just maybe, this is yet another example of her trying to play both sides and sounding like a triangulator straight out of the 90s, which is not what I'd expect from the "most progressive on foreign policy."
So, if my interpretation is correct, she needs to apologize for the prior position. If yours is correct, then she needs to apologize for being willing to abandon her opposition, but the fact that she said in the Status Coup interview that "a study said that torture doesn't work" as the reason she didn't support torture rather than the moral and legal questions tells me that if another one said it did, she would accept it in a heartbeat.
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@highneedforcognition9660 Bernie, for one. Anyone who supported the Iran nuclear deal, which I think is pretty much everyone who went on the record on the question. Anyone who didn't cheer on Russia attacking civilians in Syria in order to prop up Assad, which I think is everyone else running not named Donald Trump.
As far as her taking her time and coming to a decision, the evidence was there that the torture program was counterproductive as early as 2005, which means there was no reason for her to be on the fence nine years later. I could also point to the fact that the Army Field Manual opposes torture and has for decades, and considering that she uses her military service as a justification for everything like a real-life Walter Sobchack, she should have known.
But this is the big thing that I, and others concerned by that interview, have been trying to say: torture is not a question of whether or not it works like the movies, but whether or not it is ever morally justifiable. If the answer to that question is not an emphatic no, you lose your lefty foreign policy card.
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@highneedforcognition9660 First, she's an officer, not enlisted. (I was a sergeant, and believe you me, there is a huge difference to anyone in the military between the two.) Besides that, the Obama Administration discontinued the policy, so she wouldn't run afoul of such laws. And if she was so worried about that, why did she keep going on Fox to complain about Obama not saying "radical Islamic terror"? And why, three years later, did she condemn the bombing of Syria? That argument is pretty weak sauce.
Second, the question was clearly about torture, not about "making suspects uncomfortable." The Army Field Manual does a pretty thorough job of defining torture, and to conflate putting someone in handcuffs with sticking a rag over their head and pouring water over their face to make them think they will drown is shocking.
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@highneedforcognition9660 First of all, do you think that "enhanced interrogation techniques" are torture? Second, that is disqualifying for them in a primary ballot as well.
Getting those things out of the way, as I pointed out, torture is spoken of in euphemism. "Whatever it takes" when you are asked about torture is code for "I support torture." Therefore, in that interview, she supported torture. If you can find one case where you find torture acceptable, you support torture. End of sentence.
That is not to say that people can't realize that they are wrong. However, if I am to believe that that person sees it that way, "a CIA report had come out that said that torture doesn't work, so I now oppose it in all circumstances" is not the same as, "I was wrong. Torture is never acceptable. Even if it might work, it is immoral and illegal." I would rather support someone who got it right the first time. Yes, someone who eventually got it right but for the wrong reasons would be preferable to someone who still doesn't get it right, but it's not the same thing as someone who did get it right. I have said before that I think that her statement on gay rights is enough for me that I don't rake her over the coals for her past statements and voting record. Given her tendency to play both siderism (i.e., the wall), she has to show me that she has changed on that issue, but even if she did, there are still more things, but to me, opposing torture for moral reasons is my threshold.
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@highneedforcognition9660 It is entirely possible that I am reading too much into it, but the torture debate has always relied on euphemism and coded language, so when I hear the phrase "if we're in a situation where our family, our community, our state, or our country is in a place where, let's say, in an hour a nuclear bomb or attack will go off unless this information were found, I believe that, if I were President of the United States, that I would do everything in my power to keep people, the American people safe" when asked about the acceptability of torture, where she then follows up and says "there are those who are in the position of carrying on these interrogations, some of them say it does work" I would say that I have just heard as plain an endorsement of torture as I will ever hear.
If Tulsi Gabbard didn't know what that loaded phrase meant in that formulation, then she needs to say so, but she didn't. She could have apologized and said that she didn't express herself well, but she just blamed it on waiting for the results of a study, as if it would be okay if it worked, and the only difference between the two is that now she says it doesn't. Because that's what she does so many times: she gives plausible deniability so that she can literally be whatever anyone wants to hear. It bugged me when Obama did it, it bugs me when Beto does it, and it bugs me when Tulsi does it. And until she says that her cursory statements about suffering versus her detailed statements about the imminent danger were wrong, I will not give her a pass.
As far as the other foreign policy issues, I listed them above.
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@highneedforcognition9660 As promised, here are some of the points about Tulsi and other foreign policy issues that I brought up earlier and didn't see your response or get the chance to provide evidence.
As far as Tulsi supporting bombing in Syria, that opens this post about her problematic issues there:
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2019/01/tulsi-gabbards-syria-record-worse-think
So, this is her supporting Assad's biggest supporter bombing what turned out to be rebel strongholds regardless of whether they were ISIS hotbeds or just places where Assad faced strong opposition. She was on the wrong end of a 392-3 vote that condemned "unlawful violence against civilian populations in Syria."
This article goes into great detail about her lengthy history of supporting dictators, often under the guise of fighting terrorism:
https://www.thenation.com/article/tulsi-gabbard-president-foreign-islam/
Excerpt:
"Yet it would be a mistake to place Gabbard in the lineage of internationalist, anti-war American leftism that seeks, among other things, to help emancipate and defend the oppressed. In fact, Gabbard's public record points in a much different direction, toward an 'America first' Trumpism of the left that would restore the Middle East's dictators club as long as it benefits the United States. On closer analysis, hers is a foreign policy that favors authoritarianism cloaked as counter-terrorism, nationalism cloaked as anti-interventionalism, and Islamophoboa barely cloaked at all."
For her taking a trip to Syria supported by fascists:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/tulsi-gabbards-fascist-escorts-to-syria
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@jojosmith1097 Warren Buffett also takes advantage of monopolies, with a lot of his money (not the bulk, but not an insubstantial amount, either) in private utility companies, and he refuses to invest in companies with union workers. Not to mention that he got his first billion by charging fees that would make today's hedge fund managers blush (25% of everything over 6% gain).
Bill and Melinda Gates exploited a monopoly, as evidenced by the fact that Microsoft lost an antitrust case in 1999, only to have the Bush Administration not carry through on a penalty.
Tom Steyer was a hedge fund manager, so unless he only invested in companies in a way that would qualify him as socially conscious, that doesn't count, either, and given how much of his money was made from fossil fuels, he is another example of what Anand Giaradaras (sp?) described in his excellent book "Winners Take All" where he described how so much of the billionaire class actually caused the problems that they are now claiming to solve. Maybe their consciences wouldn't need to be salved if they wouldn't have fought so hard for the system that makes their ten figure net worths possible. In 1980, there were only about a dozen billionaires, and our economic system and innovation worked out just fine.
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@meoff7602 It doesn't have to be that way. Two years ago, my parents niece came to Philadelphia to visit me and my daughter. Among other things, while they were here, we went on two factory tours (Herr's Snack Factory Tour in Nottingham, and the Martin Guitar Factory Tour and Museum in Nazareth). Each one found that human hands caused a bottleneck in production (finding rotten potatoes at the former, lacquering at the latter), and having machines do those things increased the number of employees, and at the Martin factory, everyone in the Lacquer Department was retrained so that no one lost any jobs. If we had Workplace Democracy in place, automation could lead to more leisure.
That being said, if Yang gets his way about how to deal with automation, and he is right that all of the jobs will be gone, he will leave us a world where we have a few trillionaires and everyone else scraping by on less than the poverty level. No thanks.
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@lucaswilliams8572 Okay, I have tried to explain the objection, but you keep responding with "nuh uh!" and just repeating the same thing over and over again without even bothering to address the issue that I and others have had with his proposal. I will lay it out one more time. I will make it as simple as I possibly can. If you still don't understand what I am saying after this, you are either a bot, someone who cannot internalize any objection to this proposal because you are brainwashed, or you have reading comprehension problems. Here is why people on current disability programs that he does not allow to stack are harmed by his proposal:
1) People who are disabled already get more than $1000/month in most cases.
2) Those people will not get any more money.
3) Even those who do get more money will not get the full $1000, because they will have to give up their existing benefits.
4) Those people will still have to pay taxes to fund this program that they don't get. Therefore, they will have to stretch their dollars farther. So, they have a net loss in after-tax dollars.
5) Even if that loss is mitigated, that still doesn't help people whose rent will go up when Yang said "use your UBI to absorb the blow, because rent control is a local issue."
6) As "Inequality for All" demonstrated, if the absolute dollars are the same, but the rings above you get farther apart, it is more difficult to climb the economic ladder.
So, if you just go back to your talking points without substantively addressing those issues, I am done, because there is nothing left to say.
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I don't think Bernie said a woman couldn't win at all. Given Warren's propensity for lying and exaggeration, here is what I think really happened.
Warren: Do you think a woman can beat Trump?
Bernie: I do. I do think that Trump will try to use gender against a woman. He'll use my age and Jewish heritage against me. He will use whatever he thinks will work.
13 months later:
Warren: Bernie said that a woman can't win.
If she is the nominee, I will vote for her, because I live in a swing state (Pennsylvania), but she will get none of my weekends, and I will not defend her when people bring her up. A Presidential campaign doesn't build character, it reveals it, and Warren just showed that she let the One True Ring taint her. She will never get my active support for anything ever. I don't want her as VP unless it is literally the only way to get the nomination (say, Bernie were to get 1800 delegates and she has 600, and she only releases them to Bernie in exchange for the number two spot), I don't want her in a Bernie Cabinet, and I don't want her to be Senate Majority Leader. She has proven herself once and for all to be a complete fraud.
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@titaniumismagical8643 The United Kingdom has all that, and it's not a republic. My point was that they are different categories. You can be an authoritarian republic (China) or a democracy with a monarch (UK, Spain, Norway, Sweden, etc.), because they ask different questions. Republic asks if there is a monarch, and democracy asks if the people get a say, either directly (Athens) or through representation (pretty much every modern democracy with more than a few thousand people).
I agree that the problem is that we have minority rule. We should also abolish the Electoral College while we're at it. Another example of the "republic, not a democracy" to show how ridiculous it is would be, "It's not paint, it's white."
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@EarlHayward What is the source, so we can all see the calculations that they used?
And regulations didn't cause rent to get jacked up to the level that they have been. It's not like there was a huge surge in housing regulations at the same time regulations were decreased everywhere else in the ecomomy.
No, what drives the increase in the economy is greed, because most of the new jobs in this country are in a few metropolitan areas. I have seen areas boom and see rent go up accordingly, and not because of property taxes, but because speculators are buying up most of the houses, which reduces supply, which forces more people into apartments, which increases demand.
Riddle me this, Batman. If it's regulation rather than greed causing rent to go up, why do so many places increase their rent by the maximum allowable by law?
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@EarlHayward Property taxes are directly tied to the cost of property. Considering that Proposition 13 is a thing in California, meaning that they can't increase property taxes by more than 1.25% per year regardless of the purchase price (Warren Buffett said in 2003 that he paid less in property taxes for a house he bought in San Francisco than his house in Omaha, despite the former being valued so much higher), what do you think causes their rental increase? I would argue that the evidence bears out much more that the rent is based much more on supply and demand. Here in Pennsylvania, sometimes I randomly check rent and home purchase prices in a few different counties, and the Philadelphia metro area sees rent go up far more than the rest of the state.
Re: rent control driving up costs, I've heard people say that, but the evidence suggests otherwise. In 2002, I went to Toronto for a spring break mission trip. We did some volunteer work in soup kitchens, a food reclamation center, and low-income schools. A few years before, the Tories had won control of the Ontario Parliament. One of the first things they did was abolish rent control. In the next five years, the average rent skyrocketed, and homelessness quintupled. The reason my rent in the Philadelphia apartment was so much higher than the previous tenant was because rent control was changed to say that, barring a major renovation, rent could be increased by up to 5%. Without fail, once a building fills up, they get that 5%. Here in Montgomery County, good luck finding a 2 BR apartment for less than $1000/month. I looked out of curiosity a few months ago in Lancaster County, and there were several 3 BR apartments under that rate.
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@3ld919 Oh, I don't disagree that a second Trump term would be a horrible blow to our country, and I will vote for Warren if she is the nominee, but "pragmatism" has really screwed us. What it has really led to is labor getting shortchanged, and the Democraitc Party relying on a charismatic leader in the White House (Clinton and Obama) while hemorrhaging down ballot so there is no one left to help along the agenda.
Yes, Warren has a reputation as someone fighting Wall Street, but why do you think that Wall Street has suddenly softened their views of her? Unless there's something I'm missing, they must be confident that she won't actually do anything against them in office, any more than Obama did to help unions after sponsoring card check as a Senator and promising to walk the picket lines.
Instead, Wall Street bonuses were "sacred contracts" and UAW members "had to make sacrifices." Last time I checked, union workers at auto assembly plants aren't the ones who put us on the brink of another Great Depression.
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@jalite1991 The Nation article mentions the funding for the trip and its ties to Assad. I'm at work right now, so my ability to do deep research is limited. I can either pull up the quote or find a link on my lunch break.
That being said, I don't care how annoyed someone is at an interview, you still answer the questions. Unless I missed it, "it's possible" was actually a move forward from "we don't know if it was Assad or rebels." If you are in negotiations with a hostile foreign power and they know that you are susceptible to things like that, they will be able to roll you in negotiations. When Bernie gets agitated, he still talks about what he thinks is important and why he thinks the question is trivial. Tulsi Gabbard positioned herself as the foreign policy candidate, so it's only fair that people scrutinize her foreign policy and statements. She has a long and varied history of chasing money and hiding those associations, so until she is more transparent, it is her responsibility to prove those accusations false. While I am no fan of Joe Scarborough (I will watch from time to time just to know what the establishment is thinking so I don't get caught unawares), but he didn't force her to take that funding, he didn't force her to meet Assad and not the rebels, and he didn't force her to take his word initially on the question of chemical attacks.
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@avidanrev If you are against monopolies and corporations, what do you want to actually do about it? And in regards to my prior point about natural monopolies, that is something that occurs when there is a system that, by its very nature, there can really only be one owner. An example of that is a local power grid. At that point, there are three things that can happen: 1) it can do whatever it wants, 2) it gets heavily regulated, 3) it becomes publicly-owner. Based on your statements, we can agree that the first one is bad, and the second one clearly isn't working, so public ownership is the only option left.
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@mike1134 "have seen support for non major party candidates in prime minister elections"
I looked it up. Excluding two periods of 22 and 39 days, Australia hasn't had a PM outside of the Liberal Party or the Labor Party since 1929. Except for En Marche, the Fifth Republic of France has always had a conservative PM, or a socialist PM, even if the party's names have changed.
Yes, there are more than two parties in those countries. That is because they have Parliamentary systems instead of a Presidential system. And even then, they end up either on the sidelines or supporting one of the two major parties. Functionally, there isn't a whole lot of difference. The main advantage of Ranked Choice Voting is that it gets rid of the spoiler effect.
And, riddle me this, Batman. If "the duopoly refuses to allow Ranked Choice Voting," why did Maine, Alaska, and NYC approve it?
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@mike1134 Re: ballot access, sometimes third parties are far more lazy than they are willing to admit (then again, maybe the whole trying to get money rather than actually win elections and build a movement plays a role). In my native state, any party that gets 1% in a gubernatorial election gets an automatic ballot line for the next four years. In 2016, both the Mountain Party (started as a state party, but now affiliated with the Green Party) and the Libertarian Party meet that threshold.
Of the 117 seats up in the state legislature (all 100 in the House of Delegates and half of the 34 in the State Senate), the Mountain and Libertarian Party each had five House candidates, and the Libertarian Party had two State Senate candidates to one for the Mountain Party. Once again, these are automatic ballot lines. In 2018, the Mountain Party didn't even bother to run a single candidate for State Senate. Yeah, it's those evil major parties keeping them from running those races.
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@sharifsalem Again, to use the example of someone who looks like a woman externally, but has testicles instead of ovaries, how should they be treated? And intersex does not mean "biological male."
Now, I don't think that just saying "I'm a woman" should be sufficient. (For example, the Boston Marathon took people at their word, but given how unscrupulous that some people can be, and that women of the same age get an extra 30 minutes to qualify compared to men, and they will bump you if you are marginally qualified but others have applied who are farther under the cutoff than you.) However, to insist that everyone born a man shouldn't be allowed to compete goes too far the other way. For example, I was reading a book that was a collection of essays from Runners World. One of them included a MTF athlete. As John, he tended to have an age-graded performance of around 75% (a score of 100% would be equivalent to the world record based on your age and gender, and 50% would be twice as long as the world record based on age), but after fully transitioning, Jane also got age-graded performance scores of around 75%. Thus, she slowed down roughly the same as the difference between men and women her age.
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@jonfklein The fact that you don't seem to get that people actually get to vote, and don't have to go along with what the elites want, shows that, for someone who talks about using magical thinking to overthrow the two-party system as though it will lead to some grand utopia (ask Israel how their multi-party system is working) shows that you don't understand the real power that you have. Well, maybe not you personally, because you would rather chase a fantasy than actually use it (or work with others to make it come to pass and not give up after one or two bites at the apple).
And THAT is why the third-party movement will continue to fail. I mean, the best that a third party can really hope for is to get its ideas co-opted by one or both of the major parties (See: People's Party, 1892-96; Perot, Ross).
And I am no Biden volunteer. Other than demonstrating the bankruptcy of politics as underpants gnomes, I am making no effort. I know that I won't convince you, but I am showing anyone who reads it what is down the rabbit hole.
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@bigbrocook2119 UBI is neither left nor right. Everything depends on how it is structured, and he made it as right wing as possible, both by excluding the poor and disabled, and by using a regressive tax to pay for it. And, yes, he talked about automation, but he also wanted to do nothing about it other than give people what he described to Ben Shapiro as "the magic of a thousand bucks a month because it is below the poverty level for one person, which means that people will have to work in order to live any life of meaning." But, if there's no job in the future, how can that happen? He was a grifter all along, and any examination of what he said on right-wing shows was the real Andrew Yang.
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@kalaba360 So, a person getting $200,000/year has to get it or it isn't really UBI, but people getting any one of 125 programs, seven of which he only bothered to specify (TANF, SNAP, WIC, LIHEAP, SSI, daycare subsidies, housing subsidies) not getting it without giving up those benefits for life is just fine? [In Dr. Evil voice] Riiight.
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@kalaba360 Yeah, your statement shows that you still don't understand how progressive and regressive taxation works. It is based off the percentage of income. Someone making 100K does not need to spend as high a percentage of income as the poor in order to survive. Saving is a luxury. If you save, you aren't paying the tax. In my adopted home state of Pennsylvania, we exempt staple goods from our sales tax such as groceries, clothing, medicine, and diapers. End result? The poorest 20% pay nearly ten times what the richest 1% do as a percentage of income. Therefore, it is a regressive tax, and the single parent with two small children making $20,000/year and almost certainly also getting SNAP, WIC, and LIHEAP has to pay the tax and gets nothing. The person making $100K pays the tax and gets something for it.
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@kalaba360 Well, then you did very poor research because "stacked" means both/and in this context, and 125 of the existing programs are either/or, and Yang only ever bothered to mention seven by name that he didn't later backtrack: TANF, SNAP, SSI, WIC, LIHEAP, housing subsidies, and daycare subsidies. However, we know it was 125 because Yang said 126 before he changed his mind about RSDI and then said 125 after. The mere fact that you are defending the idea that it isn't both/and shows the cognitive dissonance by those who support this while trying to make arguments for the left: the things that you say that "make it work" are the exact opposite of what Yang wanted to do, yet you actually defend his proposal.
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@kalaba360 The criticism is that it is a regressive benefit with a regressive tax to pay for it, and the person advocating it wants to ultimately get rid of the existing social safety net, which means that if people's circumstances change, it will lead to a lot of devastation. Because he refuses to give the full list of the 125 programs, people have no way of knowing ahead of time whether or not they are affected by the either/or nature of the plan. If it was both/and, paid for by a progressive tax, and societal issues were addressed, that would be another story, but it isn't, so those are three strikes, and three strikes means you are out.
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@kalaba360 In my example, the working parent makes $20,000/year. The daycare subsidies are already about $1500/month, and the SNAP for three people at that level is close to $700/month, and WIC is probably another $100-150/month. So, that person clearly would be better off with what we have now. Because of that, this person suddenly has to pay a VAT so some millionaire can get a little bit of extra money.
Either people who support this approach know exactly what they are doing and are purposely trying to hurt the poor and disabled, or they don't know and would unwittingly do so, and Yang specifically mentioned daycare subsidies as one of the 125. Since you "did the research," you should know this, so why are you lying?
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@dirkdiggler7277 So, you have no problem with a party that reserves the right to overturn an election and take the decision away from the election boards? Yeah, that's not going to have a problem.
It all depends on how the question is worded. My adopted home state tried to enact a poll tax, I mean voter ID law, in 2012. The then-House Majority Leader admitted that it was done to try to throw the election to Romney, and the state was unable to find any examples of impersonation voter fraud. A Supreme Court that was majority Republican at the time threw it out.
And why do I not want to move because of this alleged potential for fraud? Well, the mere fact that it would have left 1 in 11 voters without the necessary documentation to vote, with disproportionate numbers of poor, elderly, and urban voters, it's not hard to see the real intent of these laws.
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@MyBrainVent Oh, yes, it is a conspiracy to keep Yang down. A C-O-N...spiracy. Someone is paying me to point out that there are negative effects in a regressive tax and forcing poor and disabled people to choose between their current benefits and a universal basic income that is neither universal nor basic income. All to keep someone getting 1% at the polls from opening all of eyes. Yang could get rid of all of the criticism on the left very easily: apologize for telling Dave Rubin that his ultimate goal is to get rid of the existing social safety net, say that he will increase taxes on the wealthy (repeal Trump tax cuts, a new millionaire bracket, a wealth tax, increasing the estate tax, taxing capital gains at the same rate as ordinary income, you name it), and literally everyone gets it. No exceptions or opting in. If he makes his plan a good one, people like me will stop pointing out how bad it is because it is the watered-down version of Friedman's proposal, not King's.
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@luperamos7307 Krystal Ball is every bit the grifter Jimmy Dore is. The main difference is that she is pretty and doesn't scream. If you ever find the book she co-wrote with Saagar Enjeti (actually, it's more accurately a collection of radar transcripts, which is why I got so annoyed that she and Saagar kept talking about "the writing process," because the only thing new was a brief introduction) advocating a red/brown alliance. On Rising, she never criticized a Republican without also finding a way to turn it to a Democrat. I must admit that I fell for it early on, because I thought she was focusing on centrist Democrats because of the primary dynamic. Her weird "anti-establishment" praise of Tulsi and Yang was always off-putting. Eventually, I realized that that is who she hates the most, because she blames them for losing her sweet, sweet MSNBC gig.
At this point, I think that anyone who is still there is either not online at all, or they are in for the grift, too. It was painful seeing the Graham Elwood debate, because you could see in real time someone who realized that he didn't know one of his best friends after all. It would be amusing if Sam were able to call in with something to distort his voice, but sadly, Jimmy Dore doesn't take calls.
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@bluesrockfan36 Bernie adds to Medicare. Yang subtracts from existing programs. The 94% figure is false. It assumes that everyone gets the full thousand. And unless Yang has flip-flopped AGAIN, he has specifically said that housing and daycare subsidies are either/or. You don't get to $600B in cost savings unless you are going after pretty much every needs-based program out there.
How is it regressive, aside from the fact that not everyone gets it? (And before you repeat the nonsense of how much better it is, the amount is already lower than the poverty level to the point that Yang has to pretend that the extended family is back or that living with your buddies is an attractive option for anyone other than poor college students.) Well, he says "every Amazon purchase." This means that he isn't talking about luxury items, but perhaps exempting some staples, although Amazon does sell groceries, so even that is iffy. My state exempts groceries, clothing, medicine, and diapers from the sales tax, and the poorest 20% pay nearly ten times what the richest 1% do as a percentage of income:
https://itep.org/whopays/pennsylvania
AT BEST, it is putting your feet on the gas and the brakes at the same time, and you don't know what will happen then.
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@bluesrockfan36 So, the poverty level for one person is higher, Yang doesn't want people to get any more benefits, it is much higher than that for single parents, and he will not give any more for children, and he was insistent to Ben Shapiro that he won't expand the benefit, and it will eliminate poverty completely? Yeah, sure.
And there have actually been studies about different versions of UBI. Ones that are below the poverty level (the study defined it as €1100 for every man, woman, and child, so about $1200) and eliminates other anti-poverty programs. The end result? Poverty and wealth and income inequality get worse:
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/01/universal-basic-income-switzerland-finland-milton-friedman-kathi-weeks/
For someone who went to the research place that every Yang Gang banger eventually goes, the irony is that I am actually documenting more of my research.
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@CloneDaddy I truly feel for you. Sometimes, I watch James O'Brien clips, and the thing that is so exasperating is that people say that Brexit needs to happen no matter what "to respect the vote," but when he asks them what Brexit means to point out that there is no consensus on what Brexit means, and no one seems to know (the most ridiculous was that fish and chips will start being wrapped in real newspaper again) what it means, so how can you enact that? Then, when Corbyn actually has a strategy to acknowledge that (have a negotiation, and then say either approve this or we are going to cancel Brexit), he is treated as indecisive. Well, here's hoping that Labour can either get to 326 or build a governing coalition.
Speaking of which, I have been trying to figure this out for some time now. Why does Sinn Fein run for Parliament if they refuse to sit when they win?
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@synnbol Either term limits or public financing would require a Constitutional amendment given the Citizen's United case for the latter. So, if we are going to talk about the heavy lifting, why not do so for something that is an unmitigated good?
How is it "a waste of their investment" if there is higher turnaround? If anything, in the short term, incumbents would be even more protected, because if you passed and ratified it as the Twenty-eighth Amendment tomorrow, given rules about ex post facto laws, incumbents would have to be exempt from those term limits. It is why Truman was eligible to run in 1952, and why Jerry Brown was able to run for governor of California in 2010. When Lindsey Graham decided to run for the Senate in 2002, he remarked "this seat only opens once every half century." He's 65, so he can stick around for a long time. And it's also not a "wasted investment" because the face doesn't matter to the corporate interests. It is all about having someone in their corner.
Sadly, I think a lot of us never imagined either the despths of the crazy or how many people were willing to embrace it.
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@FuddlyDud Never forget.
I apologize for the delay. I got hit with a couple of major projects at work and didn't have the mental energy to give your reply that I felt it deserved. Here goes.
Some agreement! How do you think education funding should be restructured? I want to see your starting point to see how much the common ground extends to solutions on this one.
What does the Bill of Rights have to do with why health care is so expensive and doesn't cover everyone? Unless your arguing that the Second Amendment as understood in the Heller case is contributing to the costs.
Standard of living refers to the mean, not the median. If you look at a distribution chart since 1980, you will see just how deceptive mean can be.
Also, you keep talking about cost of living going down. Which is it? You didn't "disprove inflation." If you look up an inflation calendar, it will tell you that something that cost a dollar in 1980 will cost $3.06 today.
You also said the pie is getting bigger and everyone benefits. That is completely contradictory both to external facts and your previously stated logic. The economy grew at a much faster rate from 1945-1980 than it has since 1981, and more people shared in the increases back then. Also, which is it, everyone gets more, or don't worry that you're not getting more, because everything is cheaper, anyway. Your remark about $1000 phones clearly contradicts the notion of things getting cheaper (btw, my phone cost $150, so I'm not exactly chasing the expensive trends). You talk about the Tenth Commandment, but what about the Eighth? Or Matthew 19 or 25, for that matter?
You said private solutions are better than every public solution I have advocated. The main two I have argued here are education and health care. Studies have repeatedly shown that, as a whole, private schools do not outperform public schools, and we pay more and cover less than any country that lets the government fund and either insure or provide health care.
If you want these things to be state run, how will that solve education disparities between rich states and poor states?
As far as converting, I have discussed these issues with people for decades, and Solomon is right. I honestly don't come into these things trying to convert anyone. If they do, great, but to me it's about exchanging ideas and being willing to listen and understand. There might be things where I think, "That is a good point," (example: I was running for state legislature in my native state 12 years ago, and some people kept complaining about too much regulation. The one concrete example someone gave, too much red tape for billboard approval, made a lot of sense, but generic complaints didn't persuade me of anything on regulations. Some are good, and some are bad.) but my basic worldview is informed from 39 years of observation, discussion, and trying to learn.
Looking forward to the follow up! Hopefully, you'll be less pressed for time than I was ;-)
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@FuddlyDud Sorry it took so long. I usually responded before during down periods at work, but I haven't really had those. Here are some responses to points above.
Public vs. Private Education: My point when I said "on the whole" wasn't that their was no outstanding private schools or bad public schools. There are good and bad of both. I could point out that in academic competitions in my county growing up, the public school students regularly beat the students from the biggest private school (it was still relative, because there were 129 in my graduating class, and I'm pretty sure that was close either way to their size for K-12), and most people who went to both told me they preferred the public schools. That being said, most private schools are not Andover Prep. Private schools can also skew their results by not admitting students with special needs, whereas public schools take everyone.
Funding: I haven't seen the specifics, but there is an idea Republicans have been floating in PA and I definitely like the basic idea of it. They are proposing eliminating the education portion of property taxes and shifting to income taxes to allow for a more equitable distribution of funds. As long as it is adequately funded, I can definitely get behind this.
Innovation: One thing that studies have shown does make a difference in performance is the presence of public magnet schools. This is more difficult to have in smaller or rural areas, because the commute time would be too great, but having schools with different emphases (including for high academic performers) has worked very well, and I think they should be implemented wherever it is feasible.
Money Trap: I don't think it's about simply throwing more money at education (although I could point to just how much the elite schools really spend), but there are some things that studies have shown time and time again make a huge difference that do require more money. One is class size. Studies have shown that class size is one of the biggest determining factors in quality education, and that means that you simply must pay out enough money to have enough teachers to keep class sizes to a desirable level. The second is related: teacher quality. As the last few decades have shown, if you don't pay enough, quality people will go where the money is, which disproportionately affects poor districts and results in higher turnover. The low tax ideology plays out in fights over bond levies. The year I ran, down ballot, there was a school bond levy to fund repairs and reconstruction of several schools for the cost of $15.5MM. The low tax crowd complained about taxes, and only 26% voted for it. When I went to school, WV was middle of the pack. Now, they're 48th in performance (only MS and AL fare worse), so it clearly takes enough money.
Accountability: I couldn't agree with you more that we should change how we determine academic success. I'm not sure what ways we can change that, other than less of an emphasis on standardized tests. No one knows like someone who has told college freshman that they have to do a 6-10 page research paper the flaws of that emphasis when it comes to developing critical thinking skills. I think we should emphasize more writing in junior high and high school, but other than that, I'd like to hear what ideas you have.
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@mbd6054 The labels are there for sociological reasons because there is a legitimate generation gap culturally. I don't hate Baby Boomers. What I do hate is the mentality among far too many that seems to assume that those of us in subsequent generations (I am Generation X) had the same advantages they did, and that a lot if that age cohort voted in the group that undid most of the advantages that their parents gave them. I think OK Boomer is stupid, but I will criticize certain attitudes when I see them regardless of age, such as when people don't do the actual work and then whine that it didn't happen. I knocked on hundreds, if not thousands, of doors for Bernie, made calls, participated in a fundraiser for a local Bernie group, attended meetings, and served as captain for a petition drive. All of this as a single parent. Then, I hear people insist that giving Bernie a few bucks was enough.
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@mbd6054 Thank you. It is incredibly frustrating to me when people say that they tried, but when you ask a follow up, they didn't do much at all. If a parent to a small child can make it happen, so can they. (She was an infant during the 2016 campaign, so I admit that is a little different, but if the child is potty trained, there is usually someone who can offer childcare.) In some ways, I think that is the double edged sword of social media. You can reach out to people half a world away or be exposed to more information, but what feels like "doing something" is really just staying in an echo chamber and doing nothing.
At the campaign stuff I went to, there will people of just about all ages. Yes, support for Bernie tended to tail off for people born before 1975, but I think some of that might have to do with Cold War scare tactics. Still, I was able to win over a Trump voter in North Philly, so it is possible. Even if Bernie turned out to be the Moses rather than the Joshua, giving up now would be a slap in the face to everything he fought for in both of his Presidential campaigns. The fact that he got as far as he did was impressive given everything he had working against him.
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@Strongflower1 Here in Philadelphia, the Green Party actually figured out a rule so that they could try to gain power. We have seven at-large city council seats, but each party is only allowed to nominate five candidates and voters can only pick five, guaranteeing two seats for the minority party. They finally realized, "Nothing says that has to be a Republican" in 2015, and tried to run one candidate. The cut off to win a seat was nearly 40,000 votes and the Green Party candidate got 11,000. They didn't bother to publicize this strategy until a week or two before the general election. In 2019, they didn't even get a candidate qualified for the ballot (it only takes 250 signatures, and groups like A Better Philadelphia and Term Limits Philadelphia met this hurdle), and the Working Families Party got one of the two seats. Even when the rules help, the Green Party is too lazy or incompetent to get the job done.
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@turboaram1970 Well, then it is clearly a method of eliminating the current social safety net. While some want to do it faster, he admitted to Dave Rubin that his ultimate goal is to let it wither on the vine.
Okay, so someone getting current benefits that help the poor have to choose, but someone could get an $8MM loan at 3% interest on a $10MM house. The mortgage interest deduction has no cap, so that is $240,000 in interest. With a top marginal rate of 37%, that means a deduction of $88,800. So, that is just fine for collecting an extra $1000/month, but someone who is disabled and getting $1200/month not only can't, but now has to pay an extra 10%? Yeah, that's fair.
And your preferred candidate talks of it as a "right of citizenship" when he insists that the rich should still get, but the poor don't. Does that mean that Andrew Yang sees the poor and disabled as somehow less than?
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@Devinchi_Art At a certain point, I have to wonder if I am speaking a different language. Let me just use a hypothetical situation that will spell it out. Imagine someone who gets $1200/month when all benefits are calculated. If this were truly a humane thing trying to actually lift people out of poverty, Yang woukd say, "Okay. You get an extra thousand, so your new grand total is $2200." That way, they would get an increase, because it would actually be about helping people rather than a stealth attempt at gutting the existing social safety net. However, because it is a stealth attempt at gutting the existing social safety net, people can only get one, but not both.
By forcing people to choose, he will also screw over people who cannot see the future. If someone is making a middle class income, let's say $39,000/year for the sake of math. That works out to a biweekly pay of $1500. That person gets laid off. Unemployment pays 60% of income, or $900 biweekly. But, this is someone who took the "freedom dividend." Oh, no! No unemployment for you. Let's just hope that you paid off your house before you lost your job, because your rent or mortgage will eat up most of the "freedom dividend." Some freedom!
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@Bolivian654 Thank you for your response. People amassed power before they amassed capital. There was always some arbiter of wealth. There will be some sort of exchange of goods and services, so how do you ensure that someone isn't able to acquire them again without some larger power making sure that they don't?
There are also questions of distribution. For me, the most Underpants Gnomes part of The Conquest of Bread was the idea that given that there would be no more private property, and thus no private farms, that in order to ensure that people had enough food that with no organizing force, people would take field trips to farm land for two days out of the year, that you wouldn't have a fight for the glamor jobs, that you'd have no problem finding someone to muck the stables, and that there would be a sufficient rotation for everything to get done. So, with no organizing force, with no taxation, with no money (and thus no bonuses for the people who do the dirty work that nobody else wants to do), other than hoping there are enough Hufflepuffs willing to do the job, how do people get fed?
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Exit polls beg to differ. In 2000, Nader voters were asked who they'd vote for if Nader wasn't on the ballot. Gore had a net of 16% (37-21) to 26% (44-18) over Bush, with the rest saying other third party or they wouldn't vote at all. If you add 16% of Nader's total to Gore, he has a lead of 15,000 votes, meaning that he made it possible for the Supreme Court to steal it.
So, if he wasn't on the ballot, there would be no Iraq War, no Citizens United, no gutting of the Voting Rights Act or the right of public workers to organize. Of course, he admitted that this was his goal at the time, so we shouldn't be surprised.
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After watching The Mighty Macs about the early days of women's college basketball, I told my six-year-old daughter that I would take her to see a game since Immaculata is about 20 minutes away. She was so excited that she said she wanted to go there someday. I told her that she has to study hard to get a scholarship, because it wasn't cheap. I looked it up, and tuition alone was $26,900/year. Then, I started wondering about state schools, and Penn State is $19,000/year. The system is broken.
I remember as an undergrad that a lot of people from PA, NY, and NJ came to WVU because out-of-state tuition there was cheaper than in-state tuition in their native states. I was shocking to see this in action. (When I graduated, in-state tuition at WVU was $3600/year.)
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@15jamorris How much effort do they really do in comparison to what they do for President and matching funds? They have been at it for over 50 years and never once won a Congressional or statewide election. I hear the Green Party over and over talk about the importance of the matching funds (fun fact: Perot did better without them than with them), and while there is lip service to building at the grassroots level, I never actually see it. The highest-elected Green is, depending on how you look at it, a state legislator or a mayor of a mid-sized city. Running for President should be the last thing that a third party does if its goal is to build for the long term.
An example of Greens dropping the ball: in Philadelphia, the minority party is guaranteed two at-large city council seats because there are seven total and each party can only nominate (and voters cab only pick) five candidates. In 2015, a Green Party candidate actually had the good idea of "nothing says that the minority party has to be a Republican, and the lowest Democrat more than doubles the top Republican, so use one of your five for me." It didn't work, but other third-party candidates got the idea in 2019. The Green Party was nowhere to be seen, and the Working Families Party got one of the two seats in 2019, and both in 2023. Even when the rules benefit the Green Party, they frequently drop the ball.
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@15jamorris Sorry it took so long to reply. There were several points and I wanted to look at it on a computer screen rather than a phone so I wouldn't have to make a separate reply to every point.
1) Cheri Honkala wasn't the person who started the revived Poor People's Campaign, Bill Barber was. It's bad enough to work behind the scenes to help people whose stated goals are pretty much the opposite of yours, but to take credit from the people who actually started it is pretty low.
2) Nader was and remains the high-water mark for Green Party Presidential campaigns, so it is perfectly fair to point to him as an exemplar of Green Party thinking. I remember after the 2004 election that a lot of GP people were furious that David Cobb kept his word (unlike Nader) and focused on safe states rather than swing states in an effort to not be a spoiler. But let's just say for the sake of argument that it's really not fair to point to Nader and his plans to sabotage Democratic candidates because it was too long ago.
Okay, then, let's look at your most recent party standard bearer. The campaign for Howie Hawkins was so incompetent that it filled out the paperwork wrong and didn't qualify for the Wisconsin ballot, even with the Wisconsin Secretary of State giving them notice to correct the issue. So, what did the Hawkins campaign do? They waited until two weeks after the decision to work with a Republican law firm to sue for ballot access all while claiming that their exclusion was an affront to democracy. Because of their lawsuit, several large counties such as Dane had to pause printing their ballots and nearly missed the deadline to mail overseas absentee ballots, which the Wisconsin Supreme Court ruled must be returned by Election Day no ifs, ands, or buts. If they had won their challenge and those ballots would have had to have been scrapped (not very environmentally friendly for a party that labels itself Green), and tens of thousands would have had no time to get their ballots in for the election. Does that sound like a good faith actor or does that sound like a willing stooge for the Republican Party?
3) I have run for office, and I have worked in the field for literally dozens of campaigns (both paid and volunteer, and both electoral and issue) over the space of 20+ years. You might think that condescension is the correct response, but I've probably done way more in grassroots organizing than you have.
"ended up helping a third party campaign in the long run"
So, you've just admitted that it was a scam. You also contradicted yourself that there weren't any complaints from donors. If the recount was a legitimate effort, and not an excuse to raise money for the Green Party, it should have been in a separate account for those express purposes. Just because something is legal doesn't mean that it is ethical.
You think Bad Faith offers a good strategic perspective? BJG is a grifter who refuses to take yes for an answer. She's the one who led the chorus in 2020 making the Sanders campaign insisting that Bernie could win the primary with 30-35% of the vote because the field would never coalesce around an alternative. Anyone who thinks that in a field where you have to get 50% Plus One of pledged delegates to win (because it was very obvious that the superdelegates weren't going to give it to Bernie if he won a plurality but not a majority) doesn't have the first clue about winning. Her goal is to make money by always saying that nothing is ever good enough, not to actually win.
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@15jamorris "No such thing as spoilers"
Okay, let's look at the rules for how a President is elected. In order to win the Presidency, a candidate has to win an absolute majority in the Electoral College. If no candidate does so, the election goes to the House... where it is decided by Democrats and Republicans.
Therefore, there is literally zero chance of a third-party candidate winning (Ross Perot initially dropped out in 1992 because he knew he couldn't win if the election was thrown into the House, which was almost certainly the best-case scenario for him). The Green Party not only knows that there is no chance of winning, but they don't even really try to win. Their goal is to get to 5% of the national popular vote and get their hands on that sweet, sweet matching fund cash.
Therefore, if they have no chance of winning, the only role that they actually have in the campaign is to make it harder for one of the two candidates who actually do have a chance to win to do so. At the top level, they know this very well, which is why they repeatedly and regularly ally themselves with Republicans for things like petition drives and ballot access lawsuits. The Republican Party gets what they want out of the deal (more power), but the Green Party gets the exact opposite of what it claims to desire in terms of policy. State and local elections are a different story, because the rules are different, but if you live in a close state, any vote for a third party candidate is (and always will be as long as we have the rules that we do) voting for the spoiler effect.
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@darrenfaber2334 There are 125 programs that people have to forfeit if they take his money. However, Yang only ever bothers to specifically list a few (TANF, SNAP, WIC, LIHEAP, housing subsidies, daycare subsidies). And, yes, people have to give something up. Yang has made it very clear that you can't get both.
And "a full-time job"? Here in PA, daycare for multiple children is over $1500/month. Do you really think that applying for that is "practically a full-time job"? At a certain point, you Yang Gang bangers keep resorting to try to using words in a different way in order to try to make it sound better than it is.
Because we don't know what the programs are that are either/or In the freedom with 125 strings attached dividend, there are a lot of people who might end up worse or surprised to find out that they have to choose at all. And there is also the question of how long taking the freedom with 125 strings attached dividend disqualifies someone from other benefits. You might think that you're in a place where you are better off taking the thousand, but, boom, you are expecting twins or triplets. Now, the funding model changes dramatically. Or, you might find out that the EITC is no longer available. Or maybe you went to grad school in a field that doesn't pay very well, but is vital, and you have to choose between the Student Loan Forgiveness Program and this money. And if you keep your current benefits, how long does that mean that you can't take the freedom with 125 strings attached dividend?
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@MyBrainVent But the sick, injured, disabled, etc., don't get the whole thousand under his proposal. Therefore, as he told Dave Rubin, it is a Trojan horse to eliminate the existing social safety net, even though for some people (for example, nursing homes have bills that are hundreds of dollars a day), that social safety net is literally a matter of life and death, and such things cannot be foreseen or planned for.
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@assiduous2011 No business taxes for 25 years is "not a bad economic policy"? How many businesses do you think will actually last 25 years?
And defending $2B in corporate welfare for a company owned by the richest man in the world that already knew that it wanted to come to NYC anyway, but just wanted to push poor people out of their neighborhood? It looks like Amazon didn't need that office with the helicopter pad after all.
Corporate welfare is what made Cuomo's initial handling of the coronavirus so bad that NYC is the disease epicenter of the world. And don't give me big population, because Mexico City and Sao Paolo have much bigger populations, and they didn't get it nearly as bad. South Korea has Seoul, a big metropolitan area, and they did a much better job. And, in the middle of this, he wants to cut Medicaid, which you are defending. It's obvious that you want a New York of, by, and for the rich, so I have to ask, is it because you are rich yourself, or is it because you hope to be rich one day and don't want Albany or Washington to take your money but don't realize that such a philosophy means that you'll never get rich?
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Donald Smith How many times did the ACA go to Court? Yes, the Court is conservative now, but a 6-3 majority is far different than a 5-4 majority. With a 5-4 majority, all that has to be done is convince Roberts to use stare decisis. However, even the decisions that he did go along with (such as upholding the ACA), he often gets a huge pound of flesh. For example, the ACA was upheld only as a tax under the explicit insistence that the Commerce Clause get weakened in the process.
You can say that Medicare for All has an ironclad case, but if you get a 6-3 conservative majority, or a 7-2 majority, then it doesn't do any good to convince Roberts, because you are still one short. And if the business community once it, the majority as it is now doesn't care about how solid the decision is. They used the Lochner case to gut workers rights, which is the equivalent of using Plessy v. Ferguson to decide a civil rights case. Do you honestly expect Sox Federalist Society Justices not to find a justification? Heck, I wouldn't put it past them to even get rid of Medicare period whole they're at it.
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Donald Smith And, once again, Ford didn't win. He lost in 1976, but several Reagan acolytes have said that his narrow loss in 1976 is what made it possible, because no Republican would have won that year in the shadow of Watergate, so realignment was only possible in 1980. Political change for good or ill almost never happens all at once. And, if you look, probably the biggest sign of things to come was Proposition 13 in 1978, which had a lot of grassroots energy.
And who is Candidate X? Candidate X has to be legion by definition. Why, it might even have to be you. Or, you would need to get involved with some group that actually is trying to make such changes at the local level, and organize for that candidate.
And how does a vote for Biden play into this strategy? I think pretty much everyone can agree that the winner of the election will get to name the successor to RBG, and it is starting to look like the Senate has a good chance of going blue. If that happens, we get Garland or better on the Supreme Court. If Trump wins, he almost certainly gets the Senate, too, which means that he can pick whoever he wants, and the strategy of picking off one Justice is gone, so we can forget good things happening. So, voting for Biden is also part of that long-term strategy, because you need the Supreme Court, too.
Other places where it will matter? Roberts seems content to nibble around the edges of Roe, but another Justice means that it will be overturned and go to the states at best or ruled in a way that makes every single miscarriage in this country a criminal investigation at worst.
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Donald Smith No, my argument is that the big tent pole cases that take most of the effort of a legislative session will go to the Supreme Court, and having a Court that will overturn that legislation will discourage voters, who will say, "Why bother? The Supreme Court will just kill it, anyway." Or, they will be like you and think incorrectly that it is simply a matter of Presidential will in order to get things passed instead of realizing that there are some things that need other people. Speaking of which, are you now ing to admit that this was a ridiculous take?
And the reason why staying within the party matters is there are a lot of people who care about party loyalty. There were a lot of people who will hold that against them. While a lot of people were being disingenuous with the Bernie isn't a real Democrat stuff, it actually does resonate with some people. Example: when I was running for the House of Delegates in 2006, there was a Congressional candidate who switched from a Republican the year before. His policy positions didn't really change, but the first question that the party elders asked every time was "Why did you change parties?" If the left flank is seen as disloyal, it will be that much more difficult to take things over. Using the example that I gave before about a political realignment that worked, voting for Nixon and Ford made it possible because it made it easier for people to win the down ballot and party committee races needed to do the things that they wanted to do.
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Donald Smith What makes you think that the Court acts the way it does to make things politically popular? The most influential member of the Federalist Party to hold public office wasn't Washington, Adams, or Hamilton, it was John Marshall. And what is so significant about that? John Marshall got his position after the Federalist Party was thoroughly defeated at the national level. Marshall ended up putting a Federalist stamp on quite a bit of stuff in his 30+ years. And do you honestly think that Republicans won't try to kill Medicare for All? Their wunderkind of ten years became that for the very simple reason that he was trying to kill Medicare.
And you have said that it would be more likely that there would be a dissenting vote for Medicare for All. Well, since you clearly think that a 6-3 majority is no different than a 5-4 majority, you are forgetting that, if Trump gets a second term, it will take two or three dissenting votes to get a majority. I have very little doubt that you could get Roberts to uphold Medicare for All if his vote will do it, but he won't walk that plank if he knows that there are still five Justices who are going to kill it. The best you can hope for in that situation is that he can twist himself into enough of a pretzel to allow Medicare for seniors to remain on the books.
And, what honestly makes you think that a case like that would die in circuit court? The groups that want to kill Medicare for All have very deep pockets, and they are good at finding courts to give contrary opinions. And you are forgetting that it only takes four Justices to agree to hear a case. If the ACA has gotten to the Supreme Court twice, you can bet that Medicare for All will get there at least once. Since Roberts has already demonstrated that he won't use the Commerce Clause for medical issues, he may very well approve it with some sort of ticking time bomb that Republicans can detonate later on so that he can say, "Well, this doesn't qualify," or he could approve Medicare for All, but get rid of the provision that bans competing plans. If that happens, it's a totally different ball game.
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Donald Smith Okay, at this point, I think that you are being willfully dishonest. When confronted with the most blatant things, you will walk them back, but you are now trying to wall right up to the edge to see how dishonest you can be without getting called on it. The point was never about Congress, but it was about the Supreme Court. Because you want to ignore the impact of your actions, you have convinced yourself that the Roberts Court, when given another right-wing Justice (and, btw, your original comment was "a dissenting Republican," as evidenced by the sloppy syntax when you tried to change it when I pointed out that one is not enough) will not hesitate to do whatever it wants for ideological reasons. We are not talking about the legislative process at all. At this point, I think the saddest lies are the ones you tell yourself to assuage your conscience.
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fa q No, it means that they aren't going to run at all. At a certain point, if you want to sound informed, you should actually know the basics.
Yes, it is true that it doesn't mean that Republicans will lose every seat. However, it does make it more difficult for Republicans to hold those seats. Of the five, the most likely for pickups are Pennsylvania and North Carolina. Missouri is the least likely unless the former governor who was forced out for sexual harassment wins the primary. However, it does give an indication of how Senate Republicans feel about their chances to regain control of the Senate. And if Democrats gain seats, the votes of Manchin and Sinema are not necessary.
So, you don't understand what it means to control the Senate, and you don't understand what it means when all of the retirements are on one side, so what else don't you know that misinforms you?
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@claudeabraham2347 Yes, it is bad. It is bad that wages have stagnated (before 1980, wages were very closely tied to productivity increases, but despite productivity nearly doubling since then, wages have only gone up 11%) because that means that people have less money for other things, while more things have been added to the expense sheet. For example, women started entering the marketplace en masse not in the liberated 1970s, but in the 1980s when one income stopped being sufficient to pay for a family's needs. (I am not saying that the wife should stay at home, but that one income, and I don't care which spouse, should be enough.) Now, that means that you have to worry about childcare. Since now it's practically a crime to leave children unattended, that means that parents have to now pay for daycare. Oh, and instead of having free (or mostly free that could be paid for with Pell Grants) college tuition, now more and more students start behind the eight ball in terms of net worth. Let's not forget the rising cost of health insurance (double that of overall inflation), and add those up, and you now have a generation for whom home ownership is mostly an illusion. But, hey, at least their boss's salaries exploded and they can buy cheap toys that break easily.
Most of those in nations that are supposed to be our peers also don't have to pay out of pocket for nearly as many things as we do. Funny that you want to compare to Third World Countries. Is that what group you want to be a part of?
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@michaelfranco6244 Why would they "have" to? There is no reason other than ideology to put people in that position. And, since Yang hasn't provided that full list, given the number of people who get other benefits who say that they get no assistance, you may be wrong.
And we also don't know how long the decision lasts. What if the freedom with 125 strings attached dividend means that a recent college graduate has to choose between the Student Loan Forgiveness Program and the freedom with 125 strings attached dividend? Does that person forfeit it on an annual basis? Monthly? Or is it that the instant you take it you are forever giving up other benefits? If you end up with twins or triplets, daycare will cost a lot more than $1000/month, and the way Yang described it as "keeping people out of the inefficient current system," it sure does sound like it is a one-time decision, and if your circumstances change, it sucks to be you. I, for one, will oppose any such program.
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@patricktuorto I have been critical of the Electoral College for over 25 years. If you like the Electoral College, either it's because you think it helps you, or you don't like democracy. Don't give me this line about "every state being heard," because no one goes to places like Wyoming, Vermont, Alaska, Hawaii, etc. Heck, in 2012, the election was fought over a whopping nine states. Yeah, that really makes sure everyone gets a voice!
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@jessea5044 You don't know what that means? Coca-cola, IBM, and Ford (among others) had friendly business relationships with Nazi Germany before and during the war (Fanta was invented due to a sugar cane embargo). Before WWII started, several prominent business leaders, including but not limited to Rockefeller and Koch, tried to install a fascist dictatorship led by Smedley Butler, but luckily for us, they picked the wrong general and he exposed the plot.
Yes, FDR wrote that letter, and he did what he could at all times against the Nazi government, but there was enormous pressure against the war until Pearl Harbor. Right wingers have even spread the nonsensical lie that he let his guard down in order to justify entering the war. Projection is a powerful thing for some.
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@MistahJigglah What did they get? Two Supreme Court Justices. Once again, funny how you completely gloss over the Supreme Court and the fact that, thanks to pretending that there is no difference between the two, we will have a hard right majority backing the campaign finance laws that you decry for decades. And before you say, "Well, they could expand the Court," the instant Republicans get unified control, they can expand it even farther, leading to a never-ending judicial arms race.
Ralph Nader ran in 2000 with the explicit goal of throwing the election to Bush. Well, given that exit polls show that he took anywhere from 16-26% more votes from Gore than Bush, 16% of Nader's total is 15,587, and if you add that to the certified count, Gore wins by 15,050 votes despite the shenanigans of Jeb! and Harris, and we don't get an Iraq War. And Nader responded to people putting the obvious dots together (multiple members of his 2000 exploratory committee said that he promised that he wouldn't go to swing states) by denying it once his support dried up, but he relied almost entirely on Republicans to collect signatures for his 2004 campaign, and he has since been trying to convince people that it will take Michael Bloomberg or Rand Paul to save us all. Smart hill to die on.
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@billyconnelly3568 Can't get rid of the Senate. The Constitution specifies that changing the Senate representation rules would require ratification by every state.
As far as the Electoral College goes, because every time it has screwed over Democrats and all but the first favored Republicans, it won't get the votes for outright repeal, but there is a way to effectively neuter it. There is a movement called the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact. The way it works is, if enough member states join to equal the majority of the Electoral College, member states will award their electoral votes to the winner of the national popular vote instead of the state popular vote. Article II gives states a lot of leeway in how they decide to award the winner (in theory, they could all decide to just award their votes based on any other standard as long as they do so ahead of the election), and at this time, states totaling 215 electoral votes have joined, so we're getting close. While it's not perfect (you can't deal with the spoiler effect), it will be a massive improvement over the election being irrelevant in over 49 states.
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@tjmul3381 Here is a article written a week before the election talking about Nader's intentions, his statements, and his actions (if his real goal was to get to 5%, he would have actually gone to safe states like California, New York, and Texas, instead of camping out in close states like Florida, Washington, Oregon, and Wisconsin):
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2000/11/ralph-the-leninist
So, let's look at the argument: if voters on the left stay home and a race narrowly goes the other way, the Democratic Party will come to their senses and vote a hardcore lefty in. There are two case studies, 2000 and 2016. Instead of Gore, we got Kerry. Instead of Hillary, we go Biden. Sitting elections out doesn't "scare the party," it angers the party, and it marginalizes the people who make it.
And what has Nader done since? Tried to shove billionaires and Rand Paul down our throats. If that is your true blue believer, then you don't understand politics.
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"My views haven't changed, so where is the pivot?"
Jimmy Dore, 2017
Cenk Uygur, 2025
The grift never starts with changing positions. The grift always starts with emphasis. The both siderism is a huge part of it, and the followers who agree with the original position will say, "Well, we know Trump is corrupt, so we need to hear it about Democrats." Then, over time, suddenly the left is "worse" on some issue no matter how obvious it is not the case (for Dore, it was pretending that Dear Leader was the anti-war candidate).Then, your guests become more and more right wing. Eventually, they are indistinguishable from the right whether they admit they're on the right or not.
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@Nick-gp9et So, you did the organizing, but you didn't answer the question. See, when people ask me the question, I have a ready answer because I have done the work, and as a result of the efforts of thousands like me, we get two members in Philadelphia to sign on to the bill.
What is my step two? We keep doing the work until we get to 218. If someone is an obvious ideologue in the way (and that is not a given, because Evans had a primary challenge in 2018 over his advocacy of vouchers and charter schools, and Boyle is a moderate who represents the suburbs and the least Democratic part of Philadelphia) or in a key position to do the most damage, we concentrate our efforts on that person in the primary. Then, we fight hard to win every vacant seat and gain Republican seats. And, then, once we get to 218, if the Speaker refuses to allow a vote, we file a discharge petition. Which means that there is actually enough support for it to pass. You want to throw away any possible goodwill on anything for something that is guaranteed to fail and think that you will get the same person who didn't want to do it in the first place (who controls the calendar, btw) to just keep letting you have votes that will fail. My prediction? Doing that will alienate members, and that will mean fewer sponsors, which means that we are farther away from passage. Thank you very much.
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@BobbyU808 First, it is lose (the opposite of win), not loose (the opposite of tight). Sorry, but that is my grammar pet peeve.
Second, if I supported something for 25 years, I wouldn't support the candidate who is doing the least to make it a reality.
Third, Dave Chappelle was a huge get, but if you want to compare endorsements, Donald Glover isn't anywhere near the best Glover endorsement. That would be Danny, who has a long record of fighting for the people, and Bernie has him. And, quite frankly, if Elon Musk endorsed my chosen candidate, I wouldn't brag, I would be embarrassed.
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@BobbyU808 No, it won't increase the purchasing power for 94% of Americans, because Yang forces the poor and the disabled to choose between their current benefits and his plan. He has a lost of 125 programs that people have to forfeit if they take his money, but he has only mentioned seven, so a lot of people will find out that, not only aren't they getting anything, but now they have to pay a VAT. Example: daycare subsidies is either/or, and daycare for two children is over $1500/month, so you are now telling a single parent making $20,000/year that he/she now has to pay a VAT and get no benefits.
And how is the freedom with 125 strings attached dividend "tax free"? Everyone has to buy things, so everyone will pay taxes. If it was structured with the slightest hint of concerned with ability to pay, then it would be incredibly easy to structure a UBI that is actually tax free.
So, a UBI that is neither universal nor basic income is better than Medicare for All? The biggest cause for bankruptcy isn't purchasing power, it is medical expenses. And there are so many things that need to be done that are societal rather than individual: health care, housing, dealing with the climate crisis in a bigger way than just giving people a little bit of money to move to higher ground, funding education, and repairing our crumbling infrastructure. Then, we can start looking at individual, especially considering the problem that. as many have noticed, at this time you cannot make a UBI that is both universal (such as taking other benefits away) or basic income (enough to be above the poverty level). Yang does neither.
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@BobbyU808 The Iowa caucuses are more about organizing than personal appeal. Yang couldn't get on the Ohio ballot because his campaign didn't bother to include a sheet for their petition drive saying who it is for and what office is being sought, so this is not a good reflection on their ability to organize. It wasn't about signatures, because you only need 50 per Congressional district. The Yang campaign insisted that it was a violation of the First Amendment and poorly written, even though every other campaign could figure out the rules.
And as someone else pointed out when talking about other candidates, the greatest organization in the world cannot overcome fundamentals. And, as is fairly common, candidates who are not viable tend to lose about 2/3 of their support by the time the night is over. If Yang ends up at 1-2% in Iowa, his support will crater. Yeah, sure, he will have the money to go to Super Tuesday, but barring this being the most inaccurate poll in American history, he won't be able to build on anything and he will be just running out the money.
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@BobbyU808 Well, I talked to a few Yang Gang bangers out and about who said, "Is Bernie going to give me free money?" and as soon as I or the person I was with said, "What will you do with that thousand dollars if you have a medical emergency?" That was the end of the support for Yang. And if you know all these things as to why you can't put too much stock in either thing, why bring them up at all? The time for rallies was months ago. And after Joe Rogan endorsed Bernie, that will almost certainly help among a type of voter that is very hard to get. Two weeks ago, he said that all but two candidates could eat something not disgusting, Yang was not one of the two. And the path for hoping for Iowa to shoot you to relevance is a lonely one indeed. In 2008, Richardson was hoping for his big breakthrough in Iowa, and was in the high single to low double digits in the polls (he peaked at 12). Long story short, 7% of voters walked in supporting Richardson, he ended the night with 2%, and his campaign was dead a week later after only getting 4% in New Hampshire.
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@BobbyU808 You assumed that it was a young person. And you say that Bernie's ideas are outdated, but I would call not pushing to have the United States join the rest of the world in not having tens of millions uninsured or underinsured, half a million medical bankruptcies, and tens of thousands dying every year from a lack of health insurance an idea whose time has come. I didn't give up on the idea a few years ago (despite claiming to support it for 25 years, you either clearly gave up on it or it just isn't a priority), because you can say #HumanityFirst all you want, but if that isn't a priority, there is a human-shaped whole in your #HumanityFirst.
And you can say that young people don't care about health care, but talk to a young person who is sick, or someone who has lost coverage because his/her boss decided to go for a sham no-frills plan. They will care deeply about health care. Tell someone whose landlord raises the rent on a fairly regular basis that rent control isn't necessary to avoid eating up a sizable amount of the thousand. Tell the single parent scraping by at the poverty level that, because Mr. Humanity First doesn't want him/her to get both the thousand and the daycare subsidies that now everything at the store costs 10% extra that this will improve that family's lives.
And if you want to let a few big companies get to control what automation looks like, they will get to keep all of the power. People aren't stupid. When they hear that someone both says that we need his plan because there won't be any jobs left in the future, and that he is keeping it too low to actually live on and wants to keep it that way to force people to work, that is a bleak idea.
"So, what do I say to that? [Pause] I say that I'm holding out for something better." Matt Damon, "Good Will Hunting"
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Quite frankly, this election has proven to me why Republicans win. Too many on the left are lazy. Of course, someone will read this and say that I am "shaming" people. Well, they can like it or not, but after Goldwater got hammered in 1964, the right didn't whine about how they would stay home to spite Nixon, they worked hard and won party committee seats, precinct and ward jobs, school boards, city council and state legislative seats, so that by 1980 they were unstoppable. Quite frankly, from a political standpoint, they deserved to win, and if we aren't willing to do the work and go vote, they deserve to lose. Kyle Kulinski encouraging people not to vote is the equivalent of saying, "I tried for four years, and now I'm giving up."
I think you're right that it makes more sense if Jimmy Dore is a Republican plant. Sadly, I am starting to worry that Krystal Ball is also going down that road, because she seems to be going far harder against establishment Dems than Trump, who is objectively worse. I am 40 with a four-year-old daughter, and I will NOT see her future destroyed over some tantrum.
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@MrGolov-te5eb Nader ran with the explicit purpose of throwing the 2000 election to Bush. If he really wanted to get 5% (his stated goal), he would have gone to California (the source of nearly 1/5 of his 1996 vote), New York, and Texas. He didn't. Given that his vote in Florida was 180 times the official margin for Bush, and exit polls showed him taking a net of 16-26% more votes from Gore than Bush, had he not run, Gore would have had a net gain of over 15,000 votes in Florida and won the election. Given his opposition to the Iraq War, and the fact that he wouldn't have put Roberts on the Court (so no Citizens United, Shelby, or Janus rulings), Nader did a lot of harm in running in 2000. And he knew it, which is why he has spent the last 20 years denying what he did, despite having nearly all of his petition drive in 2004 coming from Republican operatives, and spending the time since his repeated runs for President trying to convince people that Michael Bloomberg or Rand Paul will save us all.
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@MrGolov-te5eb I just gave you examples. Al Gore opposed the Iraq War, and George W. Bush started it. That alone is enough. Also, Rehnquist died in office, so Gore would have named his successor instead of Bush, so we would still have a robust Voting Rights Act, public employees wouldn't all be switched to right to work for less laws, and there would be no Citizens United. Stevens would have almost certainly retired in Gore's second term, and Souter would have also retired during a Democratic Presidency, so these two would be unchanged. If Trump isn't President, RBG is not succeeded by Barrett, so you don't have the Texas abortion bounty law allowed to stand for any amount of time. The so-called Partial Birth Abortion law gets overturned, and any number of horrible decisions never happen. And if some other lefty down the road can get Medicare for All through Congress, it will actually stand a chance of survival.
So, at this point (never mind the fact that the first few examples were me repeating myself), either you don't know who your real enemies are, or you really think that all of those things that the Bush and Trump Presidencies wrought are actually good.
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@aquatictrotsky1067 Thank you for replying. If there is evidence that at one point we had a more or less tribal and communal system, clearly somewhere along the way, we went a different path. There may be some basic needs that can be shared, but as long as someone has the idea of "mine," I just don't know how to avoid it. In agricultural societies, it was the ability to produce a surplus. In others, it was livestock. Given the way communal farms failed in places like Russia and China, I'm just not sure what would be different if private property was abolished. Yes, it is true that Native Americans largely didn't have a concept of private property, but a lot of times, those places have been overrun. I am not saying one is better, but I just don't know how to deal with what we know about human nature to make it work. Ultimately, someone will say, "I worked for this, and this is mine," and I don't see what will restart the cycle.
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@aquatictrotsky1067 I get that there is some theory involved, and to a certain extent, there always will be because there isn't really an example of this on a large scale today (and intentional communities and communes aren't the same thing, because it is totally voluntary membership, which is quite different than everyone being in a system).
However, I just don't see how Pandora's Box can be closed again and greed will be eliminated. As long as someone wants to, there is always a way to hoard wealth, and if someone does, regardless of what wealth will look like, it just seems to easy for me to see a world where left-wing libertarianism has a similar problem that right-wing libertarianism does. If there is something I am missing, I would be glad to hear it.
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@od_bo Oh, look. Someone using the wrong denominator in order to try to make it look less severe than it is.
Now, I don't know if this is because you don't understand how statistics work for things like that, or if it is a willful distortion, but you go by the number of cases. The number of cases is 66.5 million. Given that deaths are a lagging indicator and a million people a day are getting infected, expect that number of deaths to go way up. That shows a fatality rate of 1.27%, or 1 in 78 (when I did the math last three weeks ago, it was 1.34%, but that was before the latest spike in cases). Still, the number that you think is not a big deal is an incredibly big deal. 1 in 400 Americans dying from a virus in two years is off the charts.
And with the denialists like you clogging the hospitals, it also indirectly killing people who have heart attacks or strokes or car accidents who can't be treated because the people who don't trust medical science go begging for help when they find out that they are wrong.
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@beepboopbeep5456 Like who? Which crazy ones have been rebuked? The fascist who attempted a coup is the leading candidate for President. Said coup leader's biggest co-conspirator in Congress just got nominated by the party to be Speaker. Greene, Boebert, and Santos are still in good standing.
In 1991, Poppy Bush endorsed the Democratic nominee for governor in Louisiana to help defeat David Duke (speaking of which, the previous nominee for Speaker once called himself "David Duke without the Baggage"), but in 2016, Trump pretended not to know who David Duke was when he endorsed him for President (but he left the Reform Party in 2000 because he didn't want to be associated with David Duke).
So, being against democracy doesn't get you shunned, being a hate monger doesn't, looking the other way at sexual assault doesn't, so what does? The only thing I can think of is working with Democrats to avoid a government shutdown.
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@T. Meyer As to mentioning it, from an efficacy standpoint, I think it's better to let things like that speak for themselves, except if mentioning how a different background can bring a new perspective and what that looks like. Think of how Obama was very oblique when mentioning it. Usually, if that is a primary emphasis, it will backfire. Case in point: the top three candidates in the 2004 WV Secretary of State Democratic primary were Ken Hechler (held the office from 1984-2000 and was the only sitting member of Congress to march in Selma in 1965), Natalie Tennant (a morning TV personality) and Mike Oliverio (a state senator who finished third in the 2000 primary). Hechler was born in 1914. Tennant (born in 1968) always spoke highly of Hechler, but argued that it was "time for a new generation of leadership." Oliverio paid for a sticker on the biggest newspaper in the state saying, "Mike Oliverio, candidate for Secretary of State. I'm not 89 years old." Guess which candidate finished third. Unfortunately, all that dummy did was pave the way for his Republican opponent to run ads about the "tired, old West Virginia politics" where she hit those two words so hard that it was impossible to miss what she was saying.
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@cmack17 1) My apologies. It was HR 1829 in a previous Congress. It's HR 1976 now.
2) But they weren't in Congress before, were they? You need to get to 218 & 50, and getting them in Congress gets you closer.
3) And what will your vote accomplish?
4) You contacted your member of Congress. I guess that's better than the absolute nothing I usually get when I ask that question of FTV people. Did you follow up in any way? Did you try to organize anyone else to do the same, or did you just think, "My job here is done"?
5) Just saying it's a bad analogy doesn't make it so. Why do you think that it's a bad analogy?
6) First of all, you've accomplished nothing. Second of all, Catch and Release is a legislative strategy first used by Tom DeLay. It was originally done to allow supposed moderates to keep their veneer while voting for a right wing agenda. It is a way of allowing people to cast votes that ensures the desired result. This is why Force the Vote is useless.
7-8) "We will get the society we want when we are willing to plant trees whose shade we'll never be able to sit under."
There is no timeline. It's done when we do the actual work, get 218 & 50 Yeses, and then we apply the pressure to make them Hard Yeses. Riddle me this, Batman, how is a vote that is guaranteed to fail going to move the ball down the field at all?
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@cmack17 1) Oh, okay. So, you're a jerk who wants to nitpick and then get mad when someone acknowledges making an error. Got it.
2) Once again, none of those people were in office. She helped them get into office. If you can't understand this basic concept, no wonder why you think Force the Vote will get results.
3) Then, why did you ask basically the inverse of it to me?
4) If your representative "claims to support M4A," what about your Senators? What about friends or family who live in states/districts of those who don't support the bill? Re: "no need to 'follow up,'" I'd hate to see you if you were in a movement that literally took years or decades to come to fruition.
5) So, it's terrible because you say it's terrible? Got it.
6) What a shock. You don't understand the basic reason why your proposed strategy won't work. I can give an example of someone your boy Jimmy Dore saw as a hero to the point that she won his endorsement in 2020. Tulsi Gabbard claimed to support Medicare for All and supported Bernie Sanders in 2016. Both conveniently cut off the oxygen from primary challenges to her left. However, once she started running for President and had to answer questions about specifics, not only did she not support it, but she called one of its key provisions "un-American" in an interview with Anderson Cooper. Twice. Jimmy Dore saw this as "a smart strategy" at the time.
7-8) When all you've done to try to move the needle for Medicare for All is make one phone call to your representatives, you have no room to talk about inaction.
The abolition of slavery in the UK took over 50 years. So did women's suffrage, and one of its most important supporters, Susan B. Anthony, died 14 years before it was won. Would you have said these people were wasting their time?
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@rajashashankgutta4334 1) Saying that it isn't good for the economy because the rich won't have an incentive to get even richer is defending trickle down theory.
2) That was never the effective rate because there were plenty of lower rates along the way where they paid. A simple example with round numbers to demonstrate how this works: say someone has $50,000 of taxable income and is subject to a bracket of 10% for the first $10,000 and 20% for everything above that, the total taxes are not $10,000, but $18,000, because each dollar is taxed at the rate for that bracket. And, yes, people did hit that top bracket. Reagan loudly complained for years about having to pay it and said that he became a conservative because of it. He insisted that there were other actors who limited their work because they hit the top marginal rate. So, again, if nobody paid it, why did the conservative patron saint say that he did? You keep ignoring that question.
3) And when rich people get all of the money, the economy stagnates. When they have less incentive to keep it all, the money goes where it circulates. Like water, a river is healthier than a pond when it comes to money. People still innovated when the average CEO made less in a year than what his/her average employee made in a week, as opposed to today where many make more in a day than the average employee does in a year.
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@rajashashankgutta4334 1) Because they would still have plenty of money before those tax rates kicked in. Do you honestly think that more billionaires is helpful to society? Do you honestly not see the connection between the concentration of wealth and stagnant wages?
2) So, nobody paid those rates because there were plenty of loopholes that prevented it, but having tax rates that high prevented people from getting rich in the first place? Do you honestly not see the inherent contradictions in your argument?
3) So, you're not arguing for trickle down theory, but you are defending supply side? You are aware those are exactly the same thing, right? Yes, I am perfectly aware of the dangers of focusing only on demand. However, after decades of focusing on supply to the detriment of demand, demand is the primary issue that needs to be addressed.
4) If you know about it, why keep repeating the falsehood that nobody paid a 90% tax. No one is saying that the rich paid a 90% tax. The argument is that they paid it on income above a certain level. All of the evidence shows that people did pay at that level, but because you believe in an economic theory that ignores reality, you keep pretending that they didn't.
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@rajashashankgutta4334 Some of your responses had multiple points, so I'll break each up into its own response so it doesn't get unwieldy.
1) This shows the problem of working backwards when it comes to questions about taxation. You have decided from the beginning that certain rates are inherently unfair and immoral, so you try to work backwards to find ways to prove that it is ineffective and completely irrelevant to the question of wealth and income inequality. Like a fundamentalist trying to find the text in your holy book that proves your doctrine correct.
I am not saying that we need a top tax rate of 90%. I do believe that it should be significantly higher than 37%, though. Even Art Laffer, who drew the curve on a cocktail napkin that birthed the theory that you espouse, admitted in the paper where he explained the curve that he didn't put numbers on his curve because the optimal level can vary greatly. He went on to say that the top rate of 94% during WWII was justified.
And no one is saying that there should be a limit to how much people make. If I was saying that, I would be arguing for a full Share Our Wealth program with a maximum net worth and a 100% marginal rate above a certain amount. What I am arguing is that it should be much higher than at above a certain rate. As far as whether or not I would be outraged if I had to pay that much in taxes, I'll go back to something Larry King said in a conversation with Bill Press. He opened by saying that he paid over five million in taxes the year before. Rather than complaining about how much the government charged, he said, "This means I had a really good year. I hope I have an even better year so they take more next year."
Look at the great fortunes of the 20th century. Most were created in years where there was a much higher tax rate. When Buffett started, the capital gains rate was twice what it is now. When Gates started, the top tax bracket was 70%. George Romney became the first Presidential candidate to release his taxes in 1967, and he released 12 years of taxes to show that it wasn't a fluke. His effective rate was higher than the top marginal rate now.
As far as things being legal, you are also ignoring that those with great fortunes lobby the government to make their unsavory practices legal.
And you mention all of these other factors that you say were the bigger drivers of stagnant wages, but it was Reagan busting the air traffic controllers union that put those things into place. The reason why higher taxes are part of the puzzle for wealth and income inequality is that the rich will be less likely to give themselves as high of a salary, and when corporate taxes are higher, that gives more incentive to invest in the company and in higher wages so that can be deducted from their income, which stimulates the economy.
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@rajashashankgutta4334 2) Oh, no. I got your point, but your point came from your own butt (or someone else's butt whom you are repeating) without any evidence. Again, George Romney released 12 years of taxes in 1967. That means that he released them for the years 1955-66, only the last three of which were after Johnson cut the top rate to 70% in exchange for cutting loopholes, including strengthening the requirements for something to be eligible for long term capital gains, which got cut in the decades since. (The Johnson bill required assets be owned for two years to be treated as long term capital, now it is only one.) So, I have actual evidence to back up my argument that people paid it, and you don't.
But, because you are in fundamentalist land, you don't understand that saying that no one ever actually got to the top bracket completely defeats your argument that having a top bracket that high is inherently unfair.
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@rajashashankgutta4334 1) That doesn't answer the basis of what makes it immoral. That says why you don't like it, but it doesn't underlie any moral principle, i.e., questions about social obligation and whether or not it is moral to make billions off the backs of poverty.
A) No, you can't perform exact experiments in economics, but you do have 75 years of data in the post-WWII period to go by in order to use to determine conclusions, and B) the indisputable truth is that the economy grew faster and saw more people benefit in the 35 years where the top marginal rate never dropped lower than 70% than in the 40 years since when it was never higher than 50%.
Speaking of the morality of taxes, there are far more and bigger speculative bubbles when taxes are lower because that encourages the rich to pay themselves more, which then leads to a lot of money to burn chasing paper wealth, which makes everyone suffer. If anything, I would argue that the greater moral hazard comes when taxes on the richest among us are too low.
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@rajashashankgutta4334 1) No, that's an assertion, not a moral foundation. A Marxist (I am not one, but I am just pointing out a competing argument) would point out that renters and employees don't really have much control at all over the fruits of labor, so by that logic, they would say that this should lead you instead to supporting workers' rights and allow either the abolition of private property or to allow everyone to have his/her own parcel of land. Heck, over the last 3 1/2 years, I've paid over $31,000 in rent, and because I want my daughter to go to a decent school (and I picked a relatively cheap place to live before that to try to deal with debt largely built up by my ex-wife), that rate is going to go up even further.
2) Don't Scandinavian countries have top tax rates of over 50%? You just defeated your own argument.
3) Okay, then. Name one person who consistently argues for lower taxes in American politics who wants to increase regulation on business. Those are almost always a package deal.
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@rajashashankgutta4334 What specific tax loopholes in the 1950s existed that were eliminated by Johnson in 1964, Reagan in 1986, or any other time that were so much more egregious than the ones that exist today? It's a nice story that the tax code was more riddled with loopholes back then, but considering that you initially thought that "nobody paid the top rate," even though I provided evidence of people who did, I want actual evidence.
Why would it have been less beneficial then, when the richest 400 families paid an effective rate nearly twice that as today? Let us count the ways: 1) more income came in the form of salary than stock options, thus subjecting it to the income tax; 2) publicly-traded companies paid a lot more dividends back then (read The Intelligent Investor by Benjamin Graham, Warren Buffett's mentor, and you will see that it wasn't uncommon for companies to have dividends of as much as 1/3 of company profits), which was treated as income; 3) interest rates were much higher then, which again was treated as ordinary income; and last, but not least 4) the IRS was far better funded, and virtually every form with income over a certain level was pored over with a fine tooth comb, so it was much easier to find improper deductions at that time, this making the likelihood of getting caught much higher, thus making it far less worthwhile to pursue policies that skirted the line between legal avoidance and illegal evasion.
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@rajashashankgutta4334 So, you're not an Enlightened Centrist, but you argue like one, and you want to not only make massive tax cuts for the richest of estates (the top bracket is currently 40%), but you want to take a tax that only effects the richest 0.3% of estates and apply it to far more people? Or maybe you make the Enlightened Centrist/libertarian move of spending your time focusing on The Way Things Ought to Be. And, just a hint: arguing from the right to start a conversation only to then insist that the right don't really like your positions is a classic move of the Enlightened Centrist. Pretending that positions that are well within the mainstream of most industrialized countries is "too extreme" is a classic move of the Enlightened Centrist. You might not think you are one, but your rhetoric sounds like one.
And where is this evidence that taxes above 55% mean that people won't be productive? Bill Gates started his company when the top rate was 70%. Ross Perot started his when the top rate was 91%. Warren Buffett started his when the capital gains rate was twice what it is now. Plenty of great American companies were formed when corporate income taxes were 32% of all federal government revenues. I know you think that, but in the world of The Way Things Really Are, it just doesn't work the way you say it does.
Saying that something is immoral doesn't make it so. Saying what you think the effects are doesn't, either. Even if your argument was correct, that still isn't a question of morality, but using heavy handed rhetoric to try to jump steps in your argument.
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2:13 Exit polls in Florida showed that Nader voters preferred Gore to Bush by 26 (43-17 with the rest not voting) or 16 (37-21 with the rest not voting). Even if you use the smaller amount and add 16% of Nader voters to Gore's Florida totals, even with all of the sabotage, he still wins the state hy 15,050 votes. If Nader was really serious about his stated goal of getting 5% to qualify the Greens for federal funding, he would have concentrated on large safe states like California, New York, and Texas instead of swing states like Florida, Wisconsin, and Oregon. Several of his supporters like Michael Moore and Ani DiFranco eventually realized what he was doing and told people that if they lived in swing states and worried about throwing the election to Bush to vote for Gore.
Needless to say, Nader didn't like that. And if you look at who he has supported after he stopped running for President (Bloomberg and Rand Paul), that should tell you how fake he is, and why Public Citizen removed his name from their masthead.
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@justr6982 Most of what Biden was offering was "I'm not the one who botched the pandemic," so that's hardly "giving people want they want." Bernie tried to do that, and he got a lower percentage in 2020 than in 2016. I did everything I could to try to help him win the nomination, but it doesn't change the fact that voters made another choice.
But the problem is that you have one group that for all of their many faults actually does show up to vote every time, to the point that they keep winning even though the people disagree with them on almost everything. On the other side, you have people who insist that they need to be wooed, and almost because they have this weird amnesia and forget how bad Republicans are at governing, periodically they think they can ignore their duty and that things don't matter. However, because of how finely tuned one side has been in weaponizing the judiciary, there is no time where such a move is safe. We suffer every time this happens, and I refuse to pander to egomaniacs who insist that they're above it all like Homer Simpson bragging that he voted for Kodos.
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thesparitan Tell me where Bernie said white people becoming less tha 50% of the United States population is bad. I can show you where Yang said it. That is the difference. You take it as inherent that this is a bad thing (assuming that Hispanics won't go the way of Italians, Jewish people, and Irish, and start counting as white, but that's a question for another day). Speaking of motivated reasoning, I said that it was good that Yang said what he did about white working people, but just because I didn't get his phrasing exactly right, you're saying that is what I criticized, when it is not. I will say it again: I am critical that Yang said that it would be a dangerous time when white people are less than half of the US population. Yang said it, Bernie didn't. I don't know how much clearer I can make it, but the fact that you're not arguing against my critique doesn't help your case.
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thesparitan Okay, you want honesty? You want context? Yang wrote about minority majority status on the same day that he wrote about the Tree of Life Synagogue shooting. I did not see the time stamp, only the date stamp, so if he came back hours later, I will apologize, but the thread (and you can't tell where one ends and the other begins because he does no 1/, 2/, etc.) starts with two tweets expressing sorrow for the shooting, then minority majority status, then two or three tweets about UBI. All of those were from the same day. Even if your interpretation is correct, and I am reading too much into his statement about it being "socially dangerous," do you honestly and truly believe that the time to say it is right after people are killed in a synagogue, before making a segue into a pitch for UBI? Worst case scenario, he's playing a dangerous game of dog whistle politics. Best case scenario, he is extremely insensitive to the suffering of others, using a tragedy as a jumping off point for saying that it will get even worse in 27 years, but not if people adopt his one proposal. On an absolute scale of 10, that's going from a -10 to a -9.
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thesparitan There are lots of things that racists will use as an excuse to do racist things. White people being less than 50% of the US population (ignoring the fact that lots of people who are considered white now weren't in our past, that there are already light-skinned Hispanics who are identifying as white, that even according to the US Census Hispanic is not a race but an ethnicity), and since White is a social construct anyway, that there is a real possibility that by that point Hispanic people may very well be considered white, so there is no need to get the vapors about such possibility. I see it as not positive or negative, but something that may very well be.
As to his second point, there are some who exploit economic anxiety, but the instigators and the leaders of extremist groups are rarely poor. So, I would say that the answer to the second question is mixed.
As far as the context question, let's just say that, for the sake of argument, that he didn't know that anxiety over minority majority status is a common dog whistle among white supremacists (i.e., "Jews will not replace us" chants in Charlottesville), and it really was an innocent comment, do you really think that mentioning it as a follow up to expression of sympathy after a hate crime is really the best time? To me, the most charitable explanation is that he's as tone deaf as Yoko Ono.
As far as "I could have resolved this sooner," if you hadn't seen the link or it didn't work for you, you could have simply told me that you couldn't see the link. Defending someone on semantics when you don't know the quote is the height of intellectual dishonesty. I don't go into discussions trying to defend or attack people, I go in trying to get answers, and while you might not have agreed with my interpretation, at least I was honest enough to examine the evidence rather than blindly defend someone.
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thesparitan There is no evidence that minority majority status is used as a dog whistle?
That said, I think it's interesting that you said that it was after a white person shot "brown people." They were Jewish. Usually, someone of Jewish descent is considered white in America. I guess that might bolster your point that people acting with racial motives won't start to consider Hispanic people to be white but a) we're talking about a quarter of a century from now, so who knows what people will accept, and b) if most people start to consider Hispanics white (the way they did Irish, and Italians, and Jewish people), the Census won't release a report that minority majority status is here. That was my point.
I blindly defended nothing. I saw the context, and the context didn't seem to help in my opinion. You, however, defended Yang's statement while not having read it. What's next, are you going to say that I'm the one who defended the libertarian version of UBI?
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@ajmooretap They don't? How much did Amazon pay in taxes again? GE? Is there a cap on the mortgage interest deduction that I am unaware of (even though there is a cap on the student loan interest deduction)? Look up the book Get the Rich Off Welfare.
As far as your statements about welfare and disability, I am a caseworker, so I think I have a good idea of how benefits work.
The problem with the difference between the two is that he uses that example to suggest that everyone gets it, but it's only when he is questioned or that someone digs deeper that it becomes obvious that everyone doesn't. I was floored to find out that it didn't. I had been telling everyone nice things about him until I realized that I had been had, so now I tell people the truth that his is a libertarian plan masquerading as a leftist one, and there are an awful lot of people who will be hurt by it. If he wanted to make it universal, he could apply it to everyone instead of excluding the poor and making it opt in. If he didn't want criticism for the method of taxation, he wouldn't have used a consumption tax to pay for it. If he didn't want to be seen as someone who is using his universal-but-not-really basic income in a way that doesn't challenge the ones who are causing the wealth inequality, he wouldn't be against college tuition and lying about the proposal of the candidate who wants all public education to be free. If he didn't want to be seen as not caring about working people and just giving up, he wouldn't oppose increasing the minimum wage. These are not "tiny details," these are things that make something that can be a good idea into a terrible idea.
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@stopplayingthegame The establishment has who they want, but things are different than in 2016. Bernie had a name ID lower than the margin of error when he started. To get from there to 44% was miraculous. This time, the others have to at least pay lip service to his ideas, but people didn't like New Coke, and they won't like Wannabe Bernie.
As far as Tulsi in Congress, it has been said that there are two kinds of members, show horses and work horses. She is the latter. Give me a work horse any day of the week. As for her ideas. Look at what she had to say about torture, and her justifications for that statement today. They will make your blood run cold. As a veteran who was put in charge of a few POWs while they were waiting to be transported (not by myself, but my unit was, and I took a few shifts as the sergeant in charge), anyone who ever says that it is justified is a non-starter for me. I didn't have to treat people cruelly, and if she thinks anyone does or thought that it could work, that is not someone I want making policy.
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I definitely get the notion that there are good bad movies and awful movies. A few years ago, I saw Atlas Shrugged Volume I at the library. I wasn't expecting much, but after about the sixth or seventh time of hearing, "Who is John Galt?" I started screaming at the screen, "Nobody cares! Just end this monstrosity now." The most ridiculous bit of actual dialogue, though, was the guy who owned the process for steel, and when he insisted that this was the one thing that he wanted to keep (because in this world, the evil dystopia is that conglomerates aren't allowed and no one can own more than one business, which I guess means no stock market), he responded, "Because it's MINE." Now, I understand why so many teenage boys love that nonsense.
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@joekopsick1540 Voting third party won't make a lick of difference, especially given the obsession with the Presidency. Let's say that a third party comes around and somehow doesn't take votes disproportionately from one of the two major-party nominees to hand it to the other side on a platter. And then, let's say that candidate builds broad support. If that candidate does not get an absolute majority in the Electoral College, it goes to the House... where it is decided by Democrats and Republicans.
Even still, let's assume that somehow, all the third party people can get united enough to win the Presidency. Then, they have to try to pass their legislative agenda... in a body comprised of Democrats and Republicans.
But, wait! You say, let's actually build a grassroots movement and build from the ground up. Well, once you get to Congress, you want a committee seat so you can actually do things for your district... which means you have to work with Democrats or Republicans.
So, please tell me exactly how this "break up the duopoly" is supposed to change the fundamental rules that gave us two parties in the first place.
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@davidlafleche1142 No, but people who misuse the Bible often are.
"Not everyone who says to me 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in Heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' and then I will declare unto them, 'Depart from Me, I never knew you!'" (Matt. 7:21-23) So, you might want to look deep down and see who you are really worshipping.
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@rbda87 Okay, let's look. We have clearly seen that the Neoliberal consensus collapsed electorally in 2008. Unfortunately, Obama accepted it, and he tried to maintain that framework.
Bernie, on the other hand (unlike Yang, and apparently you based on your red baiting), never accepted it in the first place. And he understands that activism is how you get pressure on reluctant officials, based on his efforts as part of the movement to integrate housing in Chicago.
So, Manchin can talk a good game, but he only got 70% in the primary against someone who he outspent 100:1, and he only won re-election by three points after alienating the left by voting for Kavanaugh. If he supports a primary opponent, and will make sure that candidate gets support, Manchin will think twice before voting No. And, if Bernie wins, it is because of high turnout and excitement, so Democrats will get the net gain of three or more in the Senate, meaning that he can push Medicare for All using budget reconciliation, needing 50 votes instead of 60, and there is nothing the Minority Leader can do about it.
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@garysmokesmeat Another example of evil regulations. In 1906, San Francisco had a major earthquake. Lots of buildings collapsed, and 3000 people died. So, the evil government made a regulation that buildings in San Francisco had to be built to better withstand the force of an earthquake. The next major earthquake in San Francisco came in 1989, and 63 people died. Oh, the horror! Those survivors were slaves to regulation.
Haiti has no such regulations. 220,000 people died. Once again, your utopia is a world that is cold, nasty, brutish, and short. (In case you were wondering, I'm quoting Hobbes, who is especially relevant in any discussion with a libertarian given how many, when you dig deeper under the surface, really want the war of all against all.)
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@garysmokesmeat "capitalists would let that worker keep ALL of that money"
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hold on a minute. Let me catch my breath.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
First of all, you are literally praising the idea of someone giving you crumbs. Second of all, and perhaps more importantly, the capitalist has plenty of ways to separate you from that money, and you defend them all.
Third, I answered your question. Just because you don't like the fact that there is no blanket answer to the question (and, no, there is not a blanket answer for how much of GDP the government should spend, either), that's a you problem. The algorithm thanks you for not understanding that, though, and drawing more people to see the video where yet another libertarian gets flummoxed, and the defenders in the comments section live in Fantasyland.
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@garysmokesmeat "I don't know how every single problem would be solved."
And this is where pretty much every single discussion with a libertarian leads. Some insist that such issues are "a distraction," but they are literally life and death.
"There would literally be hundreds of thousands of different ways to solve those problems."
And, yet, you give up and can't even name one.
And, yes, many of those problems did occur despite government oversight, but do you know what happened before government oversight? Literally nothing was thrown out from a meat processing plant. If someone should lose a hand, an arm, or even fall into the machinery, pack it up and send it out. You know the meat is rotten? Put some extra seasoning on it and send it out. If the private sector could do such a good job of preventing such things, why didn't it do such things?
Personally, I appreciate not inadvertently becoming a cannibal.
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@gorillaguerillaDK I was there for the second war in Iraq. I agree that there are times when you must fight a war, but that doesn't mean becoming Team America: World Police, either. You can't really force a democracy on other people, because it is a contradiction in terms. In all honesty, I think that there should have been a more federalistic approach to Iraq, with the provinces getting a little bit more power in their government. Treating it as more or less a unitary system was never going to be sustainable. And as soon as you say "majority rule," the group that actually is a majority knows that all they have to do is stick together. This is part of why there were efforts to make a 2/3 majority necessary for any government functions.
For me, one of the key questions about whether or not to get involved is if the group in question is contained. Yes, Putin is awful, but if he kept his awful confined to Russia, it's the place of the Russian people to address it.
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@jd0604 Yeah, and let's look at some of Jimmy Dore's predictions:
1) Der Orangefuhrer would never get two or three Supreme Court picks (the exact phrase was that it was as likely as "the moon falling into Lake Michigan")
2) and if he did, it wouldn't really change anything,
3) that Democrats could filibuster the Supreme Court seat Mitch McConnell stole and that he wouldn't get rid of the filibuster for the Supreme Court,
4) and that such a cause would lead to Democrats taking over the Senate,
5) and then we'd get someone good "like Elizabeth Warren" as the Democratic nominee in 2020,
6) and the Republican Party would implode.
Literally nothing he said that day happened. He also tried to convince people that Tulsi Gabbard was the One True Lefty and that her Medicare Choice was "smart politics," and then a year later saying that forcing a vote would magically give us health care. Then, there's the anti-vaccine stuff and bashing teachers unions and the coronavirus denialism. But yeah, he's "been right about everything." Right wing, maybe, but not correct.
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@stephenbailey9969 And when Congress actually tried to enforce the Fifteenth Amendment with the Voting Rights Act, the Roberts Court decided that racism was over, and unless something explicitly made it more difficult to vote based on race, it passed Constitutional muster, never mind that the biggest weapons against allowing black people to vote (the poll tax, the literacy test, and the Grandfather Clause [in this case, allowing people to vote if their grandfathers were on the voting rolls]) did not explicitly mention race, and the first two affected a lot of poor white people, too, but the powers of the day were fine with that as long as black people also couldn't vote.
The Fourteenth Amendment guarantees equal protection, and a lot of the social issues that you are saying should be left to the states are questions of discrimination. You can pretty it up all you want, but your argument is the descendant of John C. Calhoun.
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@michaelburke4048 If you look at the economy, before 1980, wages went up roughly in step with productivity, but they have been relatively flat ever since. If the median annual income had kept up with productivity since then, it would be over $90,000. It's a little over 50. And income grew for the bottom half faster than the top 1% when they paid their fair share and knew they were more likely to get audited. Oh, and before I forget, the average CEO made 20 times what the average worker did. Today, it is over 380. Do you honestly believe that the average CEO works more in a day than the average worker does in a year?
It's the marginal utility of income at work. If you increase taxes on the rich, society invests that money into better infrastructure. If you cut it, they horde it, and we're paying them in the form of interest on the debt. The former is a virtuous cycle and the latter is a vicious cycle.
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@bru1016 Well, then, you support torture. How is that any different from what Bush & Co said after 9/11? And I don't care if 99% of Americans would support it, it will still be wrong, and so would they.
You can call me a moralizer all you want, but when I was in Iraq, there were some POWs who came to our base. I, and the other sergeants in our unit, all made sure that they were treated humanely, given food and exercise, time to pray if they so desired, etc. There were no war crimes committed on my watch. Period. After we were done, someone told me that I treated them too well, for doing things like giving them extra blankets and giving them a few extra minutes to sleep. Well, none of them ever told me no at any time. I am proud of honoring the rule of law, and most of us did not commit war crimes. Anyone who did, or anyone who advocates it, tarnishes the vast majority of us who didn't.
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@AW-nb5dt Again, not forced to join. Apparently, your lack if knowledge knows no bounds. And Taft-Hartley is not the Constitution, therefore, it can't be used to argue that something is unconstitutional. When it comes to questions of business, the Interstate Commerce Clause almost always beats the Tenth Amendment. If the Chamber or the Business Roundtable or ALEC or any other union busters are paying you, they should arm you with material that is fresher than a two-year old gallon of milk.
Oh, and another hint, if you want to cite something that contradicts the idea that union workers get paid more, GDP is irrelevant to average income. For that matter, since the union busters started getting their way and unionization started to plummet in the 1980s, productivity isn't, either.
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@gregmattson2238 Gee, what a shock! A Yang Gang banger who says that a critic from the left has to think harder, and that said critic will come around in time because of the unmitigated brilliance of Yang and his gang.
So, the public option will be better because it will allow for more innovation? Yes, because apparently England, France, and Canada have no medical innovations whatsoever. Is that the kind of deep thinking that is supposed to win me over to keeping a parasitic middleman that makes its money by denying care?
As far as rich threatening to pass on the consumer, and Amazon supposedly being investigated for fraud, did I say that they would jack up their prices 50%? Even if they did, there is nothing that Yang or anyone really could do. However, the profit margin of retail, especially high-volume retail, is far lower than the 10% that Yang is proposing for a VAT. And brick and mortar competitors have a higher margin per item, but it is still lower than 10%. So, is this the kind of deep thinking that will convince me that using a regressive tax is better than simply getting rid of corporate tax loopholes?
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@gregmattson2238 I think you for that expression. As far as autocomplete, my larger point was that there have been so many times where the conversation devolves into, rather than what a normal conversation would be where people disagree of A makes point, B provides objection, and A responds to specific points in the discussion and brings new points to bolster the argument, and so on and so forth until either one realizes that his/her argument is wrong or they come to a deadlock but with a greater understanding of each point of view, but too many times it gets stuck at A repeats the points.
As far as your point, I honestly saw that as a secondary argument. I personally do not consider novelty to be a great argument. I would prefer to go with something that, in literally every place that it has been tried, is more cost effective and covers every single person. There is not one study that I have seen that says that everyone will get covered by a public option, which is why it is unacceptable to me. An improvement, yes, but not the best path. When your mom almost died when you were 11 because she had a gangrenous gallbladder because it took eight months to get the surgery because your brother broke his arm three weeks earlier and doctors dragged their feet with the gallbladder surgery, you don't ever want that to happen to anyone. Ever.
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@robertprice9052 And you are proving my point yet again. You don't want to give workers any credit for the increase in productivity, and I would argue that in a period where productivity nearly doubled over 40 years, real wages have gone up 11%, and pay at the top has tripled, it's obvious who is served by that lie.
One of the anti-union stooges insisted that he didn't need any union because his pay went up 92% over the course of 25 years. Looking it up, adjusted for inflation, it was 6%. In my first five years at my union job, adjusted for inflation, my wages went up 11%. But, yeah, no one needs to unionize because of benevolent bosses like you who get forced by the government to have some minimum standards that wouldn't be there if it wasn't for the unions demanding it at that time.
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@joebrandon8750 No, you are being contradictory. You like those Justices because you like what they did.
However, you have this complaint that you love to make that if the person doing the nomination ahead of time says that the nominee will be part of a group, that therefore makes them invalid. Well, Reagan said in 1980 and Trump said in 2020 that they would pick women and Bush said he'd pick a black candidate before they made the pick. Therefore, by your logic, they were "picked because they were part of a group, not because of their qualifications."
Nobody on the left complained that those Presidents (or in Reagan's case, nominees, because he wasn't elected yet) would do so. While O'Connor was relatively smooth sailing, the case against Thomas and Barrett had nothing to do with the fact that they were going to be part of a group. However, you keep complaining that Ketanji Brown Jackson is part of a group that Biden said that he'd select from. Therefore, your argument about an affirmative action pick is hypocritical. If you want to argue the merits, argue the merits, but all you've done is complained that Biden said ahead of time that he'd pick a black woman.
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@whyamimrpink78 The one trying to justify police killing people with impunity calling someone else a racist is especially rich.
Let's just take everything that you say at face value for the sake of argument. Let's just say that George Floyd was a junkie who was about to die, anyway. If you don't have a pulse, you are physically incapable of moving your muscles in a way that makes you a threat to anyone. Therefore, if you keep someone in that chokehold after you know that person is incapacitated, and you refuse to allow someone else to intervene, you are ensuring that he cannot be resuscitated. Therefore, you are killing him. So, even if what you supposed is the reason that he died was because of the drugs is true, the fact that Chauvin made sure that Floyd was dead means that he is responsible for the death. If you want to argue to which degree, have at it, but Chauvin is guilty.
I get that when you hate other people and want to justify their death that it is frustrating to be called a racist, but that doesn't make it any less true, or the reverse automatically true. I am against any abuse of power to kill people. Funny that the so-called libertarian isn't.
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@awake3607 Assuming that you are not the person making the original reply, let's look through the thread of conversation, shall we?
OP: Ron Johnson ran for a third term, so we should have term limits.
My reply: It's not the term limits, because voters in Wisconsin elected Ron Johnson to a third term.
Reply to me: It's unfair to blame voters in Wisconsin for Ron Johnson, because the state is the most gerrymandered in America.
My reply: Gerrymandering has nothing to do with the US Senate.
Reply to me: But Wisconsin is very gerrymandered.
And, yes, voters in Wisconsin currently have one Democrat and one Republican in the US Senate. They also re-elected Tony Evers as governor at the same time they re-elected Ron Johnson. None of that changes the fact that if more voters had voted for Mandela Barnes, Ron Johnson would be out or the Senate, and gerrymandering doesn't let them off the hook, because the entire state voted for US Senate.
The context clue comes from the reply saying that it is unfair to blame voters for Ron Johnson because the state is so gerrymandered. Since you are so determined to try to save yourself or the person who replied to me (many times on this channel, people have used multiple usernames to agree with themselves, so I can't rule it out), tell me exactly how being the most gerrymandered state in America when it comes to legislative districts absolves people in a statewide election who voted for an awful Senator.
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@kurtzFPV For the first decade of this century, HR 676 (the predecessor to the current bill written by Bernie in the Senate and Jayapal in the House which was written by Dennis Kucinich and John Conyers) never had more than 70 or 80 sponsors. The current version has 117. Failed votes aren't going to change that fact, except either to make it worse because the Soft Yes will be alienated.
Colorado tried to get it statewide through a ballot initiative because of the polls that showed that it was popular. It got 21%. Polls show that a majority of people who talk about Medicare for All are really talking about a public option. I dealt with several people in petition drives who were obsessed with the idea of "not taking away people's health care" or "denying choice" (which is part of the reason why I think "support reproductive rights" is a better slogan than "pro-choice").
You don't see the votes come about a second time because health care legislation is by definition a lengthy process, and failing is going to lead a lot of time lost, and that is why it doesn't come back. It's not as simple as having a vote.
Yes, Bernie showed that he could raise a lot of money, but the level of spending for a general election is completely different than a primary. Bernie raised hundreds of millions, but the general cost billions.
I am all for putting more attention on state and local raises (as someone who raised all of $3400 in my campaign compared to my opponent's $20,000). However, that is clearly a long-term strategy to get things passed, and Force the Vote is a short-term strategy. A long term solution is what we need, because ignoring the mountain that we face is just going to leave people discouraged and reluctant to try again when it does fail.
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@LarryKach Warren has terrible political instincts. She didn't run at a time when she could have easily won the nomination and probably the election because she was actually a more popular figure at the time rather than someone who had been eclipsed. Then, instead of using them as a cautionary tale of what not to do, she followed the advice of the people who lost the last time. Then, when her campaign was sinking, she made up a ridiculous story that the person who begged her to run in 2016 told her that a woman couldn't win. Then, her tendency to exaggerate or lie reared its ugly head when she changed being the only candidate to beat an incumbent in 25 years to 30, and when that "loser" accurately noted that he had done just that within the last 30 years, the candidate who was supposed to be about plans and having a solid head for math and economics suddenly tried in an embarrassing way to do 2020-30=1990 in her head on live TV.
That's not to start going into her attempts to go just this side of Rachel Dolezal to make up ridiculous stories about her Native American ancestry and her father's profession to the point where her brothers angrily defended their father and people found evidence of her trying to use her exaggerated heritage to advance her legal career or lying about getting fired for being pregnant (she didn't have credentials and was given a temporary job and never finished getting her qualifications in order for a permanent job), she had a veil of phoniness that would have doomed her. And, yes, a lot of people will talk about how we have some Native ancestry, but most of us know better than to check a box claiming a race that we have no cultural ties to and take a DNA test to prove it (unaware of just how sensitive the topic of blood quantum is among the actual people, and thus never enough to prove her ancestry to the people who questioned it), plagiarize a recipe from The New York Times for a book called Pow-wow Chow, or let our boss call us the first person of color hired in order to help that department avoid making a diversity hire. She would have never survived the gauntlet because she didn't have the mettle.
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@cartermclaughlin2908 I also have a job and a kid, and being a single parent complicates my activism to the point where the first thing I have to ask if it is a weekend with my daughter is if there is any sort of childcare available. (Philly DSA had a canvass in January, and you can see my daughter on the website in the picture because they always take pictures of everyone at grassroots events so that people will be inspired to come out the next time.)
That being said, you're asking the right questions. This is a good thing. Any attempt at activism needs to go out to the people, because the real organizing is making sure that other people show up. If you want to go more into detail without giving too much away, what kind of area do you live in? I ask because it is a lot easier to organize in metropolitan areas. When I ran for the WV House of Delegates in 2006, even wearing a suit and a sticker with my name on it and holding a clipboard and pamphlets, someone called the cops on me. (It's practically a rite of passage in the world of door-to-door canvassing.) Still, that was the one precinct where I was able to find every single door, and it was the home of my best performance in the district. I say this not to scare you off, but just to let you know that as long as you're not selling anything, you are perfectly entitled to do so, and most cops will let you be on your way.
The next step is to find the cause that most interests you. A lot of my Medicare for All volunteer work was inspired by Bernie, and I just happened to meet some Philly DSA people in my neighborhood and they told me about what they were doing. If you are in a union, that is another good way to get some activism going, but there may be some pushback from the people who like to play small ball.
If there isn't an active group that is already doing the work in your area, there is probably a national group doing something in that vein, and many would love to have someone in your area. In college, I started a group affiliated with Americans United for Separation of Church and State on campus, and they literally mailed me a bunch of booklets, pamphlets, etc., to give away. Once we got recognized by the university, I got a booth at the MountianLair once a month and got to it. If you have any other questions about how to get started in grassroots organizing, let me know or feel free to ask anyone who mentions experience with it, and we will be glad for more hands to lighten the load.
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@RJG7203 I'm not canceling anybody. Did you see me call for a boycott? No, you saw me say that I made a personal decision to unsubscribe to a channel that I have watched less and less and this was the last straw. Is he as bad as Rising? No. Does he have a horrible strategic blind spot that does more harm than good? Yes.
Oh, my God, with all of this weakness and handwringing about "vote shaming." Never mind just how many are bad actors there are for a minute, if someone doesn't like the consequences of their actions pointed out, then maybe they should think things through before coming on a public forum and trying to enable fascism, because that is what they're doing.
And if people want to come here and lie or be useful idiots, they will be called out so others can see how bad their take really is. The Green Party has been an arm of the Republican Party for 20 years, getting money and volunteers in close elections. If someone is going to lie about what actually happened in Wisconsin, they deserve to be called out. If someone falls for those lies, that person is too stupid for me to follow as a commentator.
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@Quartermaster_Veteran I just now noticed that you responded to the Syrian refugees question. So, you think that the Republican Party, which went along with the Muslim ban, only cared about an "orderly refugee process"? How much more orderly do you need? Oh, and given that she said that she wanted to give preference to "religious minorities" (read: non-Muslims), she took an unconstitutional position. Well, she also entertained war crimes, so I guess I can't be surprised.
As far as her position on Iran, you don't have to take my word for it:
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2019/01/yes-tulsi-gabbard-iran-deal-war-hawk
As far as her support of Russia, here is her praising Putin for bombing civilians in Syria and criticizing Obama for not doing so:
https://twitter.com/TulsiGabbard/status/649458891168714752
And this is the problem with pretending that Tulsi Gabbard has any sort of principle: if you are looking for evidence of her support of a position, both before and after her supposed shift to port, or her opposition, you will find it. That's a lot harder for someone like Bernie.
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@TheBanshee90 The Louis CK ones don't bother me, because they're generic enough that they could be written by anyone, and the only one of the three that was really on the nose was a joke that they both stole from Cosby.
The difference between the accusation of stealing from Louis CK and the accusation of stealing from Demetri Martin is that for the former, the jokes were similar, but still different; whereas the Demetri Martin joke is almost exactly the same verbatim. The only real difference is that Demetri Martin wanted a 10 and Dane Cook wanted a 12. In both of their jokes, the salesperson even came back with a 9. That is too close to be a coincidence.
Re: one minute out of an hour special, so why put it in to start with? His fans would have loved to see him walk across the stage and repeat himself over and over again with jokes that weren't someone else's. Heck, he could have just repeated the punchline a few more times on one of his other jokes, and he would have filled in the two minutes (the original is less than a minute, though, because Demetri Martin only says the punchline once) just like that. That is the "just the tip" defense basically.
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@troypropes1182 Let's talk automation. This past summer, my parents and niece came to visit. Among other things, we went on two factory tours while they were here (Herr's Snack Factory and Tour in Nottingham, Martin Guitar Factory Tour and Museum in Nazareth). In each one, they found that human hands caused a bottleneck in production (finding rotten potatoes at the former, lacquering at the latter), and by having machines do the work, they were able to increase the number of employees, and everyone in the lacquer department was retrained so that no jobs were lost. And these are not co-ops, but family owned companies with long ties to their communities (over 70 years for Herr's, over 180 for Martin). If workers had more control over how automation works, they would benefit. Maybe, for example, they could double their wages and cut their hours in half so they get leisure time.
Yang is giving up and letting tech companies decide how it will happen, and if he gets away on how automation works, and he is right on there being no jobs in the future, he will create a world with a few trillionaires and everyone else scraping by on less than the poverty level. Oh, and the cost if living is going to skyrocket because we now have a consumption tax at the federal level. I think I'll pass.
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@cooloutac Four dollars more an hour, free college tuition, student loan forgiveness, health care, affordable housing with rent control and cleaner air, and increased Social Security and SNAP benefits. All of the sudden, that thousand looks pretty puny, especially when you factor in that Yang wants to get rid of the existing social safety net.
If you are a single parent with two kids making $20K/year, daycare subsidies alone are worth $19K/year. Add in WIC and SNAP, and that person is much better off with the current system. Not only does he/she get nothing, but now that person has to pay a VAT. Now, Yanf is actively hurting that person.
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@cooloutac I see that you are repeating the Big Lie from Yang that everybody gets it no strings attached. People have to give up other benefits in order to get that money. That sounds like a string to me. He has 125 programs in mind, but he has only listed seven (TANF, SNAP, SSI, WIC, LIHEAP, housing subsidies, and daycare subsidies). If Art Garfunkel has a list on his website of every book he has read since 1968 (which is about 1400), then it should be nothing for Andrew Yang to list 125 programs. Then again, maybe he doesn't do that because that list will cover a lot more people than the Yang Gang bangers think, and they won't be getting anything. Funny that the rich don't have to give up their mortgage interest deduction.
And Bernie realizes that there are some programs that have specific needs, and other programs that should be universal. Yang claims to want universal programs, but he opposes a real Medicare for All. Keep painting with your brush if desperation. Non-viable candidates tend to lose about 2/3 of their entering votes in Iowa, so if he's in the 1% range when all is said and done, the notion that he is going to suddenly rise to power will all go away.
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@SuperCroc69 1) I meant to say "incarnation," but autocorrect changed it and I didn't notice.
2) The Vice President Elect has no vote and also had her own proposal that could more accurately be described as Medciare Advantage for All.
3) Oh, dear God, how much more do you not know about the history of attempts at universal health care in this country? The individual mandate with subsidies and penalties was an idea first floated by the Heritage Foundation in 1989. It was the basis for the Republican alternative when Clinton offered Hillarycare, and he threatened to veto it. It was also the basis for what Massachusetts passed under Romney in 2006.
4) There is a certain degree of political will required. It took almost a year to get the ACA when going through committees. Apparently, you think that bills magically get through with very little opposition, especially something so major, that is almost as bad as arguing that Republicans might get on board.
5) Even if public support has increased (and no one can ever really know for sure because support can be cut in half depending on how the question is asked), if the public isn't going to do the work to organize, that doesn't mean a thing. All that matters is if you get to 218 & 50. We're at 118 & 13, and the President Elect said he wouldn't sign it. So, what are you actually doing to move the needle?
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@chuletaization What experts? There were hundreds who signed off that it was. She specifically said "he was guilty," and that is why she wouldn't vote No. The line about "partisan impeachment" is ridiculous if you just think for two seconds, because that means that if one side acts in bad faith and refuses to ever, ever, ever turn on their own, every impeachment vote would be "partisan." No, what takes courage is to take a stand. Anybody can refuse to take a stand. If she thought he was guilty, she should have voted Yes. If she didn't, she should have voted No. Censure isn't in the Constitution. Impeachment is.
She almost certainly thought that it would play better than it did, as evidenced by so many people at her event the night of the debate asking about impeachment, and her decision to cancel several events over the next few days. She has an instinct for publicity, and she was learning the hard way that not everyone appreciates masking cowardice in courage. Go read Profiles in Courage. All of the examples of the book were people who took a stand, not people who appealed to some vague notion of centrism or compromise.
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@anaeusrex2014 Not a Pelosi or McConnell fan, just someone who understands basic math. I will continue to do what those of us in Philadelphia did as part of a grassroots movement to build support for the bill. (I did my effort with DSA and Philly for Bernie, and other groups such as Health Care 4 All PA and Neighborhood Networks played a part.) You call and write your elected officials, sign petitions, and then go to your family, friends, and neighbors and get them to di the same. Our efforts led to two members (Dwight Evans and Brendan Boyle) signing on to the bill. Reminding people of just how far we have to go, and probably making the list useless because either a) the Soft Yes members will be alienated, or b) a lot of opponents who are vulnerable to a primary threat will vote for it to try to stave off that threat knowing that it won't pass. Did you not notice how many people thought Tulsi Gabbard was a lefty hero after endorsing Bernie even after her 2020 campaign where she ran to the right of every Democratic candidate not named Michael Bloomberg?
In order to get it to pass, you need 218 & 50. We're at 118 & 13. What makes you think that if you "force the vote" you'll get the 100 votes in the House, the 37 in the Senate, and the signature of a President who said he wouldn't sign it? A proposal straight out of the Underpants Gnomes won't get there.
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@tannermcnabb4836 The standard term limit proposal is 12 years. Even if you went with 20, that still forces her into retirement at age 49. Now, tell me how this is reasonable.
If you like Bernie and AOC, why propose something that would kick him out of office and something that would force her out at a young age? Or did you just maybe stop to think that blanket solutions to "I don't like who other people vote for, so I want to make it so that no one can ever vote for someone like that person ever again"?
And, ultimately, that's what age an term limits is: changing the rules because you don't like who wins. Yes, people vote for familiar names, but incumbents lose all the time. If people really want someone else, they'll vote out the incumbent. AOC is there because she beat not only an incumbent, but an incumbent in leadership who was being groomed to take over. Saying "it's too hard" isn't a reason to get rid of the actual good people.
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@ubuu7 For someone who opened by talking about enjoying seeing someone seethe in anger, you sure do show an awful lot of anger. To quote Walter Sobchack, I'm calmer than you are.
So, just a tiny sliver are getting one or more of the 125 programs that people have to forfeit if they take his money? And what are you basing that on, since Yang has only mentioned six (TANF, SNAP, WIC, LIHEAP, daycare subsidies, housing subsidies), you don't know, and there are probably a lot of people who would be quite shocked to see themselves on that list.
So, you support regressive taxes? Instead of basing it on the ability to pay, you are just fine with making the poor pay a higher percentage of income?
But, I thank you for demonstrating the stereotypical Yang Gang banger who doesn't care who gets hurt, as long as you get $1000/month. I couldn't have done it better myself.
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@ubuu7 TANF is decided at the state level, as are the levels for daycare subsidies, but a lot of the funding comes from the federal government.
And, perhaps you forgot about the ruling that allowed the ACA to survive, but it gave states the right to set their own benefit levels for programs like TANF and SNAP, among other things. So, Yang could say, "pretty please adjust your benefits to compensate for the VAT" all he wants, but they don't have to.
And given the fact that TANF is one of the few programs that Yang has mentioned by name, and TANF is awarded on the basis of having children, so if someone is getting something from the list of 125 programs (which I guarantee has to be pretty expansive and affect a lot of people in order to get the count that high), the household probably isn't getting anything either.
Apparently, you don't seem to understand the point that I was making. It was not that everyone wants to keep what they have, but there are plenty of examples now of the benefits being over $1000/month now just based on the programs mentioned. Since you want to talk high rent, those areas have housing subsidies that are worth way more than $1000. So much for saving to move out!
But the point was that there is no reason to use a regressive tax to pay for it other than ideology. You could avoid all of these issues by using a progressive tax to pay for it, and not forcing the poor to choose. The rich get to keep their welfare, so why do the poor have to give up theirs in order to get this "right of citizenship," unless Yang sees them as second class citizens to begin with?
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JB JG In addition, if workers had more of a say in how automation was done, it wouldn't have to be that way at all.
This summer, my parents and my niece came to visit. While here, we took a couple of factory tours (Herr's Snack Factory and Visitors Center in Nottingham, and the Martin Guitar Factory Tour and Museum in Nazareth). At each one, they found that human hands caused a bottleneck in production (finding rotten potatoes at the former, lacquering at the latter), and using a machine to do it increased jobs, and lacquer workers at Martin were retrained to a new job, so no one lost a job. It helped that these were family owned and each has long ties to their communities (Herr's for over 70 years, and Martin for over 150), but if companies were required to act for stakeholders rather than just shareholders, and employees had a say, automation might mean doubled wages and half the hours, so people actually get leisure time and the same amount of money. The Yang Gang bangers are just accepting defeat.
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@chriscurlett4548 No, it would not be regressive, because of how it is taxed. Instead of consumption, it is taxed on income, with a 7% employer payroll tax (proportional) and a 4% employee payroll tax that exempts the first $29,000 of income (progressive). Before you say that Yang exempts staple goods, my state exempts groceries, clothing, medicine, and diapers, and here is who actually pays:
https://itep.org/whopays/pennsylvania
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@keirenle This is because people have a lack of possibility and too easily give up. There is nothing that says that companies have to act only in the interests of shareholders and that workers get no say.
This summer, my parents and my niece came to visit. While here, we took a couple of factory tours (Herr's Snack Factory and Visitors Center in Nottingham, and the Martin Guitar Factory Tour and Museum in Nazareth). While there, we were told how human hands caused a bottleneck in production (finding rotten potatoes at the former, lacquering at the latter), and by having a machine do that, they were able to increase the number of employees, and the workers who did lacquer at Martin were retrained to a new job so no one lost a job. Now, these are family owned and operated, and they have long ties to their communities (over 70 years for Herr's, and over 150 for Martin), and they were able to do it. If workers had a say, or companies were obligated to consider stakeholders, it wouldn't have to be that way.
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@ebreshea1337 He certainly tried his best to filibuster in the debate last month. As far as not wanting to answer anything about Trump, like it or not, Trump is the elephant in the room. If they ignore him, he wins the nomination. I don't know if you are a fan of distance running, but this field reminds me of those running against Mo Farah in his day. Everyone knew that he had the best kick, but in championship races, everyone was afraid to push the pace early, for fear that they would be too tired to make their move, and they ended up losing to him when he ran his race. Only Chris Christie, and to a lesser extent Asa Hutchinson and Mike Pence have even tried to make a move, but if no Not Trump is willing to make that sacrifice (and it might be the case that eventually those not fully on board would respect someone who did so enough to give that person a chance), the race will not change.
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@ebreshea1337 They all say that they have no interest in being VP. But just in this century, John Edwards, Joe Biden, and Kamala Harris disprove that notion.
People might say that they hate negativity, but like it or not, an election is about contrasts. If you are nearly 50 points down, your only chance is to bring the leader down. The reason why Trump is extremely likely to be the nominee is that his opponents keep hoping that someone else will take care of Trump for them, but given the timetable for the trials, the earliest moment would be after he won enough delegates for the nomination and then a brokered convention.
As far as the online comments, President Paul, President Sanders, and President Yang can tell you how representative comment sections are of the voting population at large.
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@leonscott543 And how exactly is throwing the election to Trump going to change things? In 2000, Nader insisted that Bush winning would scare the Democratic Party into giving them the things they wanted. Bush took office, and we got the Iraq War, Roberts, and, Alito. In 2016, I kept hearing the same thing about throwing it to Trump, and we got a million dead from coronavirus, an attempted fascist coup, Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, and Barrett. I don't think we can stand too many more of your lessons.
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@jessestreet2549 "HRC won the popular election but lost the ec because of Repubs grabbing important state government seats"
For someone who talks about "the civics lesson" at the end of this post, it's amazing how basic understanding of how things work eludes you. The Electoral College is decided in 48 states and DC by the result of the popular vote within the state, and in the other two states, the statewide winner gets two electoral votes and each Congressional district gets one vote. State lines are not gerrymandered. Hillary Clinton lost the deciding three states because she took them for granted and focused on running up the margin in places like Chicago and New Orleans instead of making more of an effort in Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, and State College in Pennsylvania; in Madison and Milwaukee in Wisconsin; and in Detroit, Lansing, and Ann Arbor in Michigan. If you have every state go statewide with their vote, it affects things by one electoral vote in 2016, and they cancel each other out in 2020. It is not gerrymandering, but the concentration of Democratic voters in urban areas, that makes it possible for Republicans to win the Electoral College despite even trying to win over a majority of voters.
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John Doe The right wants power, and they don't care what they will do to get it. Oh, I get what they tell themselves, but it doesn't stand up to the least bit of scrutiny. Surely, Lindsey Graham knew that there was a real chance of someone on the Supreme Court dying in 2020, but he still confidently said in 2018 that he absolutely would never have a hearing (something he could stop as the committee chairman) so close to the election. When you say things are principles and then you ignore those principles constantly, it is going to get scorn and it deserves it. If the record gets tied in the time between vacancy and confirmation, we are literally talking two days before the election.
We have a party that called using an executive order for prosecutorial discretion "tyranny" while supporting someone who is ordering child kidnapping and forced sterilization of women. Yes, you can say that I'm "contributing," but I really don't care. Democracy is at stake, and this is no time for both siderism. Both sides are not equally bad. Period.
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@recklart8592 Actually, hundreds of billions, if not trillions, have been repaid. Remember about ten years ago when the Chicken Little crowd insisted that we were headed for catastrophe because the SSTF took in less than it paid out? That was because some of the Treasury bonds were redeemed in order to make Social Security payments. When Social Security was established, it had two rules that made it different from all other government spending: 1) it had to be paid for by separate funds from Social Security payroll taxes, and 2) the money would be kept in a fund separate from the general fund.
Whether you agree with the basic mechanism or not, the rule changes with the Greenspan Commission worked as intended (except they underestimated wealth concentration since 1983, which meant that instead of 90% of all earned income being subject to the tax, it's closer to 82% now, which would have made it fully solvent until 2063 if that were still the case), because the idea was to take in way more than needed at the time when there were far more workers to retirees, and use that money to weather the storm as that ratio shrinks and the baby boomers start to collect.
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@solenstyle That is not my understanding at all. My understanding is that assistance should be used to alleviate poverty. The amount that he proposes won't do that.
Another big issue is wealth and income inequality. This does not mean that everyone makes exactly the same or has the same, but that once those differences get so vast, the rungs get so far apart that climbing the ladder becomes virtually impossible. The absolute/relative question reminds me of an experiment. (Robert Reich talks about it in one of his lectures.) Two people were offered a total of $100. However, one person was supposed to come up with a way of dividing the total. The other could take it or leave it. If the other person turned it down, no one got anything. Some people split it 50/50, but others wanted more. The researchers found that the offer had to be at least $25 to get someone to accept. Using the logic of your post, people should take anything above zero. After all, it was money they didn't have coming into the deal. People didn't take it because they saw it as unfair. In other words, the relative effects are also important.
As far as Yang saying that other things should matter besides GDP, I agree. However, that doesn't change the fact that his proposal does nothing to alleviate poverty, does nothing to address inequality, and because of the way it is funded might actually make both problems worse.
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@TheColdrush22 If she doesn't care about refugees, why was she one of only 16 Democrats to vote with Republicans to make it harder for Syrian refugees to enter the United States? 18 levels of verification aren't enough for her? A vote that, by the way, she still defends. Why did she praise Putin for bombing rebel strongholds in Syria? Why is she so noncommittal on whether or not Assad used chemical weapons (on The View, she said he did, but denied it on Morning Joe)?
Do you consider it a significant answer to her previous defense of torture that she was waiting to read a 2014 report that said it didn't work when there was a previous report in 2007 that said the exact same thing? Is it acceptable that she was willing to consider a war crime, even if she now says she opposes it on practical grounds rather than moral ones? Are you confident that another report wouldn't change her mind?
If she wanted to make peace by "meeting with people," why did she only go to Assad strongholds in Syria and then say that he had broad support? If she doesn't support Sisi, why did she praise him for "stopping terrorists" after a brutal crackdown on protestors? If she doesn't support Modi, why does she continue to say such nice things about him and deny his role in demonizing Muslims?
Finally, how many big things does someone have to apologize for past opinions and positions held before you start to ask whether or not she's building on a foundation of sand?
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@falllinemaniac As she points out, she did it in the Obama years. This was before her trip to Syria. She still defends that vote today.
Putin was not interested in getting "terrorists" in Syria. He was only interested in propping up the regime. And this idea of Assad as the "elected leader" of Syria, who was his opponent? Oh, that's right, elections in Syria are a show.
If Assad didn't use chemical weapons, why did Tulsi admit it on The View? If she is honest, why did she then say he didn't on Morning Joe?
Tulsi is not pro-peace. She is an isolationist along the orders of the America First Committee.
Finally, she is not the only peace candidate since Dennis Kucinich. I was a supporter of his in 2004. I met him several times when he came to my native state. I asked him questions. He actually did support peace, and quite frankly, his spiritual heir on foreign policy, because I saw her town hall, and she wants to bolster the State Department to negotiate and increase actual peace. Tulsi wants to abandon the world.
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@falllinemaniac The question of the legitimacy of the Syrian elections, Assad didn't have any opposition in any election until 2014, and in that election, he only put ballots in areas that were loyal to him. Oh, yes, that is democracy:
https://www.macleans.ca/news/world/5-things-to-know-about-tuesdays-presidential-election-in-syria/
At a certain point, I have to ask why you continue to cite the party line of Syria regardless of actual information. If Trump doesn't let anyone in the Pacific time zone vote, would you consider that a legitimate election? The questions of his legitimacy have to do with a foreign power putting its thumb on the scales and an antiquated system of counting votes. Not that there aren't problems with American voting, but if you honestly think that Assad's election is the same as American elections, I have to ask whether your understanding is willful, based in a reflexive anti-American sentiment, or an intentional effort to provide cover for the murder and displacement of millions.
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@falllinemaniac Secular governments have done all kinds of bad things in the Middle East. The question isn't secular or fundamentalist, as Tulsi Gabbard would have you believe, but dictator or democracy. Saddam Hussein was secular. So is Erdogan. So was Gaddhafi. I find it interesting that you didn't include the Kurds. At this point, I have to wonder if the Assad government is paying you for every nice thing you say about him, because you are more reluctant to criticize Assad than Trump is to criticize Putin.
As far as supporting efforts to remove Assad, I think that it has to be done internally, and through free and fair elections, with real opposition candidates and no threat of violence for supporting them. And he has to stop the civil war. The United States should practice humanitarian aid, and we should protect the Kurdish people. That should be the limits of our direct involvement. Sanctions, if targeted to actually affect those committing the human rights abuses, or similar activities, is acceptable to me.
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@falllinemaniac When will you start being honest about this "only" stuff? Not only did Bernie call Trump out on Yemen, but unlike Tulsi, he actually did something about it. Who was the lead sponsor of the bill that he vetoed? Who helped organize the coalition that voted in favor of the bill? You complain when I call out Tulsi for her words, but that is all I can go by since Bernie has actually done things on these fronts.
I hope I get a candidate who meets my standards, too, but the primaries are the time to push for the best, and the general is the time to see who is the better or less bad who can win. I live in one of the three states that decided the last election, I am a pu]blic worker who got screwed over in a scenario that Jimmy "McConnell won't get rid of the filibuster" Dore said wouldn't happen, and I am a veteran of the war Bush pushed us into and Gore opposed, so every time my upper back acts up or my sinuses act up, I am reminded of the importance of knowing when to be ideal and when to be practical.
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@maximyles 250 miles a week is obscene unless you are an ultramarathon runner going extremely slowly. The typical elite 10,000 meter runner (Lindgren's event) typically runs anywhere from 80-140 miles per week. Swimming is far less of a cardiovascular exercise than running, so those aren't comparable. The human body can only withstand so many hard miles (Frank Shorter and Bill Rodgers, who propelled the American running boom in the early to mid 1970s, were elite marathon runners and neither are capable of running a marathon today), and being burned out by the time you're 19 means that something was wrong.
Also, Lindgren and Ryun weren't never-was. They were both world record holders, and Ryun was an Olympic silver medalist as his downhill began. Part of the reason he won silver instead of gold was because he contracted mono and couldn't train for several months in the spring leading up to Mexico City, a disease that is a symptom of overtraining in endurance athletes.
For comparison in terms of when an athlete should peak, here are the ages of the dominance or the greatest performances of other all-time great distance runners: Paavo Nurmi, 27; Emil Zatopek, 29; Ron Clarke, 27; Lasse Viren, 23: Abebe Bikila, 28; Said Aouita, 25; Peter Snell, 23-25; Haile Gebrselassie, 23-27; Kenenisa Bekele, 26; Hicham El Guerrouj, 26; David Rudisha, 24. Any endurance athlete who peaks at 19 or 20 is being done wrong. Since you are familiar with boxing, I will paraphrase one of the greatest movies ever made with a former boxer as the main character: their coaches should have been taking care of them. They should have been looking out for them instead of taking the short end money meets.
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@johnhand46 My point is that even if "the DNC" wants to get rid of her, it's really up to voters. As far as "useful" goes, if the Democratic Party were to remove them, there wouldn't be a majority, and voters would revolt. People keep acting like we live in a Parliamentary system or miss the point that in this country, the party is the people. If voters wanted rid of her, she would be gone. If enough voters wanted Bernie as the nominee, he would be President now. The days of the smoke-filled room are long over. If they were still here, I gah-ron-tee that Trump would have never won the Republican nomination, let alone the election. Yes, they have been spineless since, but it was ultimately Republican voters that stuck us with him.
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@johnhand46 Again, you seem to keep using "the DNC" like the establishment boogeyman. Dole outspent Clinton, and that race was so far gone that people later admitted that Dole picked the venues he did for his 96 hour marathon final campaign push to try to help down ballot candidates so Republicans could hold Congress. And Bernie held the lead in fundraising through February 2020 in the Democratic primary. Yes, money helps, but anyone who has actually either been a candidate, run a campaign, or worked on a campaign can tell you, it is not raising the most money that gets you victory. You have to raise enough money to get your message out there.
As others have pointed out on this thread, there was a lot of boots on the ground and signs for Omar's opponents. Participate in enough electoral politics, and you get on plenty of e-mail lists. I saw plenty from Our Revolution asking for funds to save Omar, but I don't remember any from the DNC or the DCCC. The latter is there to protect incumbents first and foremost, so they aren't going to tout her opponent, but they clearly weren't giving her the help of other endangered candidates like Engel. You want to invoke conspiracies, but you bristle at that when I say that is what you are doing.
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roccorostagno What an interesting response that manages that blend of condescension and missing the facts. Let's start by the premise that you said that Republicans have moved to the center.
1) Taxes: Reagan raised taxes 11 times to rein in the deficit. Poppy did the same thing in 1990. Grover Norquist likes to brag that no Congressional Republican has voted to raise taxes since. I'd argue that is moving to the right.
2) Civil rights: Let's talk history. For its first 110 years, the Republican Party had an admirable record on civil rights. However, after the Civil Rights Act of 1964, Democratic Presidential nominees who were on the record on the bill in 1964 were 4-0 (Johnson, Humphrey, McGovern, Mondale) in support of the bill, while Republicans who won the Presidential nomination had a record of 4-5 (Nixon [twice], Ford, and Dole in favor: Goldwater, Reagan [twice], and Poppy [twice]) against.
3) Voting rights: which court gutted the Voting Rights Act? Oh, that's right! It was the Roberts Court, with the five conservatives voting in the majority. Democrats aren't for non-citizens voting, we're against poll taxes.
4) Civil liberties: which party has taken the lead on fighting civil forfeiture?
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roccorostagno Well, which is it, is it a good thing that Republicans haven't raised taxes since Poppy, or is the national debt a bad thing? You can't have it both ways.
Re: the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act, interesting that you can't actually engage the substance of the question. As far as Byrd goes, I am a Christian, and I believe in redemption and repentance. For the last 40 years of his life, he supported civil rights, and for the last 50+ years of his life, he apologized for his past, so I would say that he definitely strived for redemption and proved that he wasn't the same man he was at the age of 24. That doesn't excuse what he did, but that shows that he knew it was wrong.
Vouchers are not a civil rights issue. If you cared so much about poor inner city schools, you wouldn't be supporting something to take money away from the schools that a majority use to give to schools that don't perform any better on the whole, but your no-tax ideology means gutting those schools even more.
As far as money and politics, of course nothing can be done with that attitude. Public financing of campaigns is the reform that makes all other reforms possible.
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@xemy1010 So, you think Milton Friedman was a leftist? Yang is not doing both/and (leftist UBI), he is doing either/or (libertarian UBI). He forces people receiving 125 programs to choose between their current benefits and his plan, but rich people get to keep all of their tax deductions, and he uses a regressive tax to pay for it. Hardly a leftist plan.
He also opposes increasing the minimum wage, regulating or breaking up tech monopolies, making it easier for workers to organize, student loan forgiveness (other than something that is even worse than what public sector workers get now), paid college and vocational tuition, affordable housing, and raising taxes on the rich at all. That is a lefty to you?
And as far as the whole "slaving away at a job," he told Ben Shapiro that he won't index the freedom with 125 strings attached dividend to inflation. So, if he is right that there won't be any jobs left in the future, the end result will be a massive underclass expected to live off $12,000/year in perpetuity. Some gift!
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@Kyle Jones No, it is saying that in addition to RT and Sputnik loving Tulsi, Jill Stein is a Russian asset. The "also" refers to the Russian asset. The question was about Republicans encouraging Tulsi to run third party: "So he [Trump]'s going to try and drive the people not to vote for him but just to say, 'You know, you can't vote for them, either.' And that seems to be, I think, to the extent that I can divine a strategy, their key strategy right now."
"Well, I think there's going to be two parts, and I think it's going to be the same as 2016: 'Don't vote for the other guy. You don't like me? Don't vote for the other guy [...]
"They're also gonna do third party again."
You're forgetting an awful lot of stuff before the quote that the "they" is the Trump campaign. And if you don't think Tulsi is the favorite Democratic Presidential candidate of Russia, how do you explain the positive RT coverage and the way that she keeps lining up with their objectives, to the point of praising Putin for bombing civilians in Syria while complaining that Obama didn't?
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@himynameisrev And automation all depends on how it is done. A couple years ago, my parents and my niece came to visit me and my daughter. Among other things, while they were here, we went on two factory tours (Herr's Snack Factory and Tour in Nottingham, and the Martin Guitar Factory Tour and Museum in Nazareth), and at each one, they found that human hands caused a bottleneck in production (finding rotten potatoes at the former, lacquering at the latter), and having robots do it led to an increase in employment, and everyone at the Lacquer Department was retrained, so nobody lost any jobs at Martin.
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In Money Makeover, he argued that lower debts should be paid off first regardless of the interest rate, and against any investment until debt could be paid off. It seems like he started by borrowing from David Bach, and now he's borrowing from Suze Orman.
Oh, and his advice on spending down once you retire was ridiculous, saying "the market grows at 12%, and inflation is 4%, so you can spend 8% a year and be fine." Maybe if you don't expect to live 10 years after retirement, and the S&P average is 9%, which would be even lower with his advocacy of high-load mutual funds, and that bad idea is all him.
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@Qossuth Looking at the numbers in the early states, I think that this could very well be a momentum thing like Kerry in 2004 (and, why I said at the time that Hillary knew she needed to win Iowa at all costs), where he won early and couldn't be stopped. No candidate has ever won the Iowa/New Hampshire double (Carter, Gore, Kerry) and lost the nomination. If he wins the double, he wins Nevada, and if he gets close in South Carolina, he will beat expectations (and he actually has the most endorsements from state legislators in the Palmetto State, so he might still pull it off). He already has the lead in California and other Super Tuesday states, so he can get quite a head of steam by the end of Super Tuesday and steamroll to victory.
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@sergeikhripun Oh, okay. I'm not dealing with a liar, I'm dealing with an idiot. I guess the object of your admiration meant that one went without saying as far as the latter. If you want me to answer your question, I just want to figure out if I am dealing with someone who is dishonest, someone who is your garden variety stupid, or someone who is genuinely cognitively limited.
Show me where you find someone else, anyone else, using your definition of supermajority? Since you claim that you are using "the political definition" and I am using "the dictionary definition," are you not aware that the reason why the term supermajority exists is because some things cannot pass with a simple majority, and there needed to be a distinction so that people understand why things fail with a majority?
And I don't know where you are getting your numbers, but did you not notice that for all this talk from Angry Leader that the vote was planned to fail in the first place? Did you not notice that Biden's numbers didn't move when he said that he wouldn't sign Medicare for All in the primary? Apparently, you missed that the people of Colorado had a referendum for Medicare for All a few years ago and it only got 21% of the vote. You probably also didn't read below the actual top line of the poll and find out that a majority wrongly think that Medicare for All allows competing private insurance. Thank people like Jimmy's object of affection Tulsi Gabbard who insisted that she supported Medicare for All while saying that the thing that actually made it work is "un-American."
You probably haven't done the actual organizing work and talked to people who said that they liked Medicare for All while angrily insisting that you can't "take away people's choice for insurance."
I have actually done the work, and because of me and others like me, Brendan Boyle is a sponsor of the bill.
You also missed the point where I said that the Democratic Party is not an ideological party in the way the GOP is. It is a coalition. Party control is irrelevant to the question of Medicare for All having a chance of passage given that only half of the Democrats in the House and a quarter of Democrats in the Senate sponsor the bill. You know what percentage of Congressional Republicans support Medicare for All? Zero. So, what have you personally done to build support for Medicare for All?
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@NoWay1969 He said that the current programs are bad, and the freedom with 125 strings attached dividend will make it less likely for people to get caught in the system. However, this shows a total misunderstanding of how these programs work. The vast majority are off within two years. You will never eliminate the need for the existing social safety net, because there will always be disability and frictional unemployment and poverty. And Yang envisions a future with 1/3 of the population unemployed. His freedom with 125 strings attached dividend is already below the poverty level now, and I can think of several situations where it pays out well over $1000:
1) Single parent with two kids who gets SSI and SNAP gets over $1300/month.
2) TANF in New Hampshire is over $1000/month.
3) Housing subsidies.
4) Daycare subsidies with multiple children in daycare.
With nothing else to fall back on because those programs have been eliminated or for fear of losing what they currently get, his proposal would increase poverty if his worst-case scenario comes true, and create a permanent underclass.
And he won't provide a list of the 125 programs that people have to forfeit if they take his money, so we don't know if unemployment is one of them. We also don't know how long taking his money will keep someone locked out of the existing social safety net. Unemployment has a cap, but it pays about 60% of income. So, if someone is making $39K/year and takes the freedom with 125 strings attached dividend, that person would be giving up biweekly unemployment of $900. I hope that person has his/her house paid off, because Yang is opposed to actually doing anything about affordable housing.
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@NoWay1969 How do we know it doesn't include unemployment if he won't provide the list? Mother Jones asked for it back in April, his spokeswoman implied that he didn't have a final list (even though he had a count long before then) and they promised to update the story if he did, and it hasn't been updated yet. I have heard people say both. Because of his opacity, I don't have trust that it won't be.
And you seem not to understand how it works. There are a lot of situational things, and not only do those people not get benefits while everyone else around them does, thus exacerbating inequality (and wages have kept up with inflation over the last 40 years, so that shows why just staying the same isn't sufficient when the rungs get farther apart on the economic ladder), but they now have to pay a VAT because Yang refuses to even try to address wealth and income inequality. So, in both an absolute and relative way, they are worse off than before.
And the Yang Gang bangers seem not to understand that there is often more than one program that people will qualify for, which is why it is dishonest to only mention one program to try to pretend that it is better.
Yes, it makes things a lot worse. If we only have the $1000/month, that won't be enough, and that is why it will be a permanent underclass. I keep hearing that we can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, but a program that hurts the most vulnerable in society and lets the rich keep every single tax loophole is not a good, it is a bad, if not an evil.
And Bernie proposed things that are far better. His was similar to what Richard Wolff proposed of, instead of letting the monopolies and big corporations get most of the benefits, use the benefits of technology to force increased wages and decreased hours to increase quality of life and make room for more people to work. You can scoff at that idea if you'd like, but why do you think we have overtime laws?
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@NoWay1969 You still don't understand how progressive and regressive taxes work, and why a VAT is regressive even with the freedom with 125 strings attached dividend fits. So, I will explain one final time, and use the example that you gave. The person who you mentioned making $24,000/year and getting an extra 12 will still probably spend it all or close to it. That means an extra $3272 in taxes, or 13.63% of income in taxes. If you say, "Yes, but that person got a third of their income," the freedom with 125 strings attached dividend is not treated as a tax rebate. If it were, it would not affect existing programs, which again shows that he doesn't understand how the machinery of policy works.
Someone who is rich doesn't spend all of their money. So, let's take your person making $240,000/year. That person will only spend about half of income, because they invest the rest. They won't spend that extra money except to offset the taxes. So, that person will pay taxes of $12,000, or 5% of income. 5 is a lot less than 13.
That is the fundamental flaw in literally every single argument that tries to insist that a consumption tax can ever possibly be progressive: it forgets the fact that the rich have far different spending habits, because there are plenty of things that are needed, and those things are a much larger portion of income for the rest of us. You can give your hypotheticals all you want, but the fact that 45 states have overall regressive taxes and they rely more heavily on consumption than the federal government betrays your argument and proves mine. At a certain point, you can talk hypotheticals all you want, but I have actual proof of what happens when you tax consumption rather than income or wealth.
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@NoWay1969 "All we can do is repeat what the stated policies are."
And this is the irony of someone who supports someone whose slogan is Make America Think Again saying to just trust him at his word and not actually look at the implications, whether or not someone actually has the authority to do something that he/she says, or whether or not it is contradictory with other things that are said.
You said that you trust him, despite the fact that he has said several contradictory things about his proposals, especially between right-wing and left-wing audiences.
And if you can't understand that making someone forfeit current benefits in order to get his money is a string attached, then you either have an understanding of it that no one else does, being intentionally dishonest, or being willfully ignorant. I don't know which, and at this point, quite frankly, I don't care.
Now, let's look at your proposal for just how easy it would be to give someone an EBT card to cover the VAT. Well, benefit levels for most programs are determined at the state level, and the Supreme Court has already said that the federal government can't force them to change benefit levels, so that's out. So, it would clearly have to be done at the federal level. So, the federal government would have to start keeping records of how many benefits people get, and calculate the "rebate." Oh, and someone also has to keep track of who gets the other benefits in the first place. Far from getting rid of bureaucracy, this creates a new one.
And you keep saying that the VAT is not regressive, when you have to add something else to try to not make it so. Do you know what would not be a regressive tax? Taxing capital gains to pay for it, because poor are less likely to own stock. Or, you could have a tax on income above a certain level. See, if you use an actual progressive tax, you don't have to use the benefit to insist that the tax is not regressive.
Finally, at another point, you said that $24,000/year was poor. I don't think you realize just how much you undercut your own arguments. If that is poor, then half that is clearly insufficient. If that is the case, then making people give up what they have in order to get that money is clearly wrong.
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@Prague3203 Yang is not for increasing the minimum wage. Why do you have to lie? His argument wasn't that the minimum wage at the federal level is too one-size-fits-all (putting aside the irony of that from a man who insisted that this will revitalize rural communities because he said that people will move to where houses are cheap, ignoring that people live where they do because that is where the jobs are), his argument was that any increase in the minimum wage will lead to job loss and "$1000/month for everyone is worth more than $15/hour."
And this talk about "increased bargaining power" is little more than an incantation to try to make the counterargument go away. Who is going to have this "bargaining power"? Only 6% of the private sector and 32% of the public sector workforce is unionized, so if you aren't one of the fortunate ones like me, who is doing the negotiating? And don't give me "if people get $1000/month, they can turn down the job," because Yang himself gave the game away when he told Ben Shaprio that it's only $1000 so people still have to work, and he specifically called that amount magical. I guarantee that, for most workers, the best case scenario would be their bosses telling them "you just got an extra thousand dollars a month, so why do you need a raise from me?" if not an outright cut in wages. Your statements are based on wishful thinking rather than how employers actually treat their workers. Their goal is to keep costs down as much as possible, or else the topic of robots wouldn't even be a thing.
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@Prague3203 So, I am supposed to believe that the person who lied about his goals for the existing social safety net, who lied about his support for Medicare for All, who lied about his support for Bernie in 2016 (he neither voted, volunteered, nor contributed to the campaign), who lied about having a post-work economy, who lied about who would pay the tax, and who lied about giving it to "every adult, tax free, with no strings attached" is suddenly telling the truth? When someone lies that often, I need that person to admit that he lied, especially given his tendency to be honest about his motivations to right-wing sources.
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@Prague3203 I actually ran for office, and I didn't lie about my positions. Yes, Horseshoe Theory is a thing for some issues. This wasn't about "reaching everyone," because if it was, it was wasting his time talking to people who couldn't vote for him. You must be new to politics, because you would know that it would come back to burn you if you are saying one thing to one audience and the exact opposite to another. That is not "politics," that is lying.
And it's interesting that you bring up Horseshoe Theory in this instance, because there is a left-wing and a right-wing version of UBI. The key difference? Ones on the left are meant to supplement existing benefits (with the possible exception of TANF), and ones on the right are meant to replace it. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see which side his is on. He invoked Martin Luther King, but his policy is Milton Friedman, made worse by paying for it with a regressive tax.
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@mbburry4759 Well, did you ever stop to think that Georgia designed it in such an awful way because they wanted it to fail and resented the federal government telling them to do it? In Pennsylvania, the first car is exempt, and pretty much the only things where assets factor in at all are TANF and Medicare Buy-in or nursing home programs. And the "nearly dollar for dollar" is by definition not the case for SNAP because, for example, the maximum payout for one person is $234, and I guarantee that the income ceiling is not $234 in any state.
So, your answer is, because some states design it poorly, to take it away from everyone who needs it? Using an example about it "punishing people and making it impossible to work," daycare subsidies is something that Yang would put on the chopping block, and by definition, it is there to help people be able to work. For two children, daycare alone is easily over $1000/month without the subsidies, and for one child, you are looking at anywhere from $600-800 depending on where you live. If someone is receiving the daycare subsidy, that person is probably also receiving other programs, too, such as SNAP, which puts him/her over $1000. If you've got someone making $20,000/year (and Yang doesn't support raising the minimum wage, so it is still a thing in his world), he wants to take away the thing that makes work possible in order to give someone less than his/her job is paying, or he wants to give that person nothing and force him/her to pay a regressive tax for benefits that he/she will not receive. It sounds like the Freedom with 125 Strings Attached Dividend is actually more guilty of what you think the existing social safety net does than the one we have now.
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@Prague3203 Okay, let's just hypothetically assume that you are correct, and that Yang didn't really want the right-wing version of UBI (even though, by definition, he did), and he really just wanted to lie to right-wing audiences so he could "make it law" instead of lying to left-wing audiences, as I have argued.
Well, in that case, you and your hero don't know the first thing about trying to make things law because you have to get elected before you make something a law. Emphasizing the right-wing nature of the bill is going to alienate voters in the Democratic primary, and how well did that work? I'd say that not getting more than 5% in either early state and zero delegates shows just how effective it really was.
And I've had friends who wildly overpromised things, too. They were still my friends, but I learned that I couldn't trust a single thing that they said about their capabilities, and and overestimating the capabilities of a program by over 50 times (remember, this was only going to be about jobs in poor cities, so by definition the people who went to boomtowns didn't accomplish what they set out to do) tells me that this is someone who tends to run with something that sounds good and overestimate his ability to deliver. If someone is that off on that, it makes me question how right he is about a lot of his projections.
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@graceg3250 No, because he said there were 125 programs that he wanted to make either/or, and housing subsidies were one if them, and so was LIHEAP, which he referred to as "heating subsidies." He only ever specified a few, though: TANF, SNAP, WIC, SSI, LIHEAP, housing subsidies, and daycare subsidies. He also walked back two others (RSDI and VA Disability), but the mere fact that he put those two on the list in the first place is highly suspect. Then again, he never did give a full list of the 125, so it would have been impossible for people to make an informed decision about his proposal when he was running.
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@crumbtember You are correct. In many of the occasions where it was tried, it became a matter of "meet the new boss, same as the old boss." I also think that greed is something that ultimately prevents the Marxist vision from ever taking hold. When I read The Conquest of Bread, I kept thinking, "but who will organize these field trips to the farm with no taxation and no government?" and when Jamie was still on the show, I kept thinking, "with no government, who is going to stop someone from seizing wealth and property and starting the cycle all over again?"
There is also the troubling fact that, outside of Allende, I can't think of a single Marxist head of state who tried to put ownership of the means of production more into the hands of the people without committing human rights abuses or stifling dissent. And Morales and Lula don't count, because they've largely governed as social democrats. I'm all for the idea of making it easier for workers to control their business, but I think that it has to be their decision to go that route.
If I could see those things being overcome (and people who identify as socialists, even the non-tankie variety, wave off human rights abuses), then I'd gladly sign up.
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@1massboy Yea, if you look at historical patterns, most states tend to be consistent, but there are often states that end up being a surprise. From 1032-1996, no state went blue more often than West Virginia, and it hasnt gone blue since. Going into 2008, Virginia was tied for the longest red streak in America, and it hasn't gone red since. Before 1992, the reddest state in America (only going Democratic once in its entire history [1964]) was Vermont. It has been blue ever since. Delaware and Illinois used to be swing states. California went red every election from 1968-1988 before going blue. Would any of those have happened if the people in the state had said, "Well, it's a afe state, so why bother?"
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@1massboy I'm losing nothing, because I'm not the one who doesn't seem to understand that surprise results happen all the time at the state level. And as far as those "warning signs," switching for a Presidential election is often (not always, but more often than not) the first sign of political realignment at the state level, not the last. When West Virginia went red for only the fourth time in the last 70 years and the first time for a non-imcumbent Republican since 1928 (the three times it went red from FDR to Clinton were 1956, 1972, and 1984, with popular incumbents who won re-election in a landslide), the Democratic Party held every statewide office, every Congressional seat but one (who won a very close race that year and was the daughter of a popular former governor), and controlled both Houses of the Legislature by margins of 75-25 and 25-9. Does that really look like a state that's about ready to flip? If Republicans hadn't seen an opportunity there, Florida would have been irrelevant, so even if 40+ states are safe, there is usually some outlier that nobody expected to see on the list, and this goes both ways.
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@crazyoldworld7946 Well, the reason why it started in the 1980s is because the right didn't whine about how they were going to stay home after getting slaughtered in 1964 and seeing establishment candidates win the nomination three times in a row after that. They organized. They ran for stuff down ballot: party committee spots, precinct and ward chairs, school board seats, city council and state legislature members, and then by 1980, they became unstoppable. If they are going to spend 16 years fighting to hurt people, why are so many giving up in the fight to help people?
Republicans and centrists win because, quite frankly, too many on the left are lazy. I remember last week talking to someone who was insisting that Bernie should run on the Green Party, and I pointed out that sore loser laws don't allow it. Then, she accused me of being a Hill Shill from the last cycle. When I pointed out all I did to work for Bernie this time and asked her what she did, stony silence. I can't help but appreciate the irony that the people who believe government doesn't work always show up to vote, but it's true. It should be those of us who see its potential.
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@davidvenegas6401 Did I say "put kids in cages"? No, I did not. I said kidnapping children. As many faults as Obama had, kidnapping children is not one of them. He didn't order children separated from their families without keeping track of the parents, then send the children thousands of miles away. If you think that is the same as "putting kids in cages," then I don't know what to tell you.
And you are missing my point completely. For one, usually when I hear the word "shaming," it tends to be whining about someone saying something critical, as though someone can ignore the consequences of their actions. If you live in a swing state and don't want to vote for Biden, have at it. However, those of us who live in a swing state do not have that luxury. Like it or not, Joe Biden or Donald Trump will be President at noon on January 20.
And one thing I noticed that you didn't address at all was the Supreme Court. Four of the five members of the conservative bloc are there because they were appointed by Republican Presidents who most Americans rejected in favor of another candidate who snuck in via the Electoral College at least in part because people insisted that there was no difference between the major-party nominees and wanted to "teach the Democratic Party a lesson and force them to pick a lefty the next time." (Admittedly, this played a much more obvious role in 2000 than 2016, where there was some ambiguity over whether or not that was enough.) One of the Justices on the liberal bloc is 87 and has had multiple bouts of cancer. Another turns 82 in August. If Trump gets to name the replacement for one or both of them, we may very well see labor unions abolished. (Even before Kavanaugh, they cited a decision that was overturned that struck down child labor laws. This would be like using Plessy v. Ferguson to decide a civil rights case.) Even before this round of right-wing Justices, the Voting Rights Act was gutted. If you want to ignore the consequences of those things, I will not aide and abet your guilty conscience. And unless a plane carrying Roberts, Thomas, Alito, Gorsuch, and Kavanaugh crashes while a Democratic President and Senate are in office.
This election is not about the next four years. It is about whether any good things can be accomplished in forty years. I actually went out and did the work to try to help Bernie win the nomination. I knocked on thousands of doors, did a reading at a fundraiser, made dozens of calls, and served as a captain on a petition drive. What did you do? Did you do the work, or did you sit on the sidelines and complain?
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@davidvenegas6401 Did you knock on doors? Did you make phone calls? I knocked on doors, I made calls, did a reading for a fundraiser, and I was the captain of a petition drive to get Bernie on the ballot. This on top of giving money. Oh, and I'm a single parent, so I brought my four-year-old daughter along while doing several of these things. Everyone has something that they can use an excuse to say that they can't do the work.
And, yes, Republicans blocked Garland. But guess what? That means that you have to make sure that Mitch McConnell isn't the Senate Majority Leader anymore. And if Biden wins, it takes a net of three to make sure Turtle is irrelevant. Jones in Alabama is probably a goner, so let's say four. There is a real chance to win seats in Arizona, Colorado, Maine, Iowa, Montana, and North Carolina. Win four of six, and we get someone like Sotomayor or Kagan on the bench, so that way a generation doesn't have to worry about the abolition of child labor laws, civil rights laws, and environmental laws.
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@gamingislife3332 See, the difference between me and advocates of term limits is that I don't talk about The Way Things Ought to Be, I look at the way things really are. Several states have enacted legislative term limits. Did it happen the way you think it would? No, it resulted in more control by donors (if you know you're only there for 8 or 12 years, you're going to look for a place to land) and unelected staffers (who understand the nuts and bolts of government in a way that the transients don't).
My native state of West Virginia wanted to give Robert C. Byrd a ninth term in 2006, and we did. My adopted home state of Pennsylvania didn't want to give Arlen Specter a sixth term in 2010, and we didn't. If you don't like that people get re-elected, that's up for the people to decide. I ran to try to deny someone a fourth term in the WV House of Delegates in 2006 and failed. Fourteen years later, someone else beat that person in the State Senate primary. I would have liked to have served, but the people didn't vote for me, and I accepted it. I was depressed about it for a couple days, but I accepted it as soon as I saw that my opponent's lead was far too great to overturn, and I conceded. That's democracy.
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@compactinfinity So, the answer is to just give up, let corporations get all of the say in what automation will look like even though it can be done in a way that actually benefits workers (more below), gut the existing social safety net, and force people to live on a pittance meaning a world with a few trillionaires and everyone else scraping by on less than the poverty level for one person?
Explanation of automation working for workers: this summer, my parents and my niece came to visit. We went to a couple of factory tours (Herr's Snack Factory and Visitors Center in Nottingham, and the Martin Guitar Factory Tour and Museum in Nazareth) and it turns out that human hands caused a bottleneck in production (finding rotten potatoes at the former, lacquering at the latter), and letting machines take care of these caused and increase in jobs, and at Martin, every single person who worked on lacquer was retrained to a new job, and there was not one person who lost a job. If workers had a say in how automation was done, and/or companies looked at stakeholders as well as shareholders (it probably helped that each company is still family owned and has a lot of ties to each community, with over 70 (Herr's) and 175 (Martin) years in the community, why can't other companies do that? Why can't they raise wages and cut hours to actually give people more leisure time?
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@compactinfinity What are you basing that assumption on? Does he have a track record? Does he have any consistency at all on how he talks about these things? In fact, based on the few programs that we know, there are a lot of people who won't get any benefits from his program:
1) TANF in New Hampshire is over $1000. It is $923 in Alaska, and over $700 in New York and California, which means that with SNAP, it will be over $1000.
2) Daycare for two children is over $1500 in Pennsylvania, so I am guessing that applies in plenty of other states.
3) Housing subsidies are easily worth more than $1000 compared to market prices in many high rent areas.
So, no only do those people not get any money, but now they have to pay a VAT, which means that they will suffer. Any proposal that hurts the poor and doesn't affect the rich is horrible, and it deserves all of the criticism it gets.
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@inspectortanzi No, she asked about his "initial support for FTV." Sam never supported FTV. He said that the squad and the CPC should try to "use some leverage, but I'm not sure that this is it." This is what he said in real time, and this is what he told Gray. After a day or two, he was unequivocal that this particular usage of "leverage" was a bad idea, and it wouldn't get us any closer to Medicare for All. Then, after a week, he realized that Jimmy Dore and his ilk were using it as an excuse to go after the Squad, which he wholeheartedly rejected. She asked his position, he told her, and she kept lying and said that he supported it until he heard that Jimmy Dore did. The title of her show was very apt.
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Adept HNIC Archives Apparently, you don't understand the legislative strategy of catch and release, and why forcing the vote was a stupid strategy that wouldn't have gotten us any closer to Medicare for All (and given his support of Tulsi Gabbard, who called Medicare for All "un-American" in an interview with Anderson Cooper, not once but twice just in case people thought it was an accident). There are exactly three things that could have happened relative to the sponsor list and a vote on Medicare for All:
1) the vote would have exactly matched the sponsor list, and it would have been a total waste of time;
2) a bunch of people who put their name on the list would have voted No, and you would have seen a demoralized base;
3) knowing that the vote was doomed to fail, people in lefty districts who were didn't want Medicare for All would have voted Yes to fend off primary challengers, knowing that they would never vote Yes if it actually had a chance of passage.
And either way, Nancy Pelosi becomes Speaker. So, what exactly would forcing the vote accomplish?
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ppm120667 Well, radiologists policed themselves, and their premiums plummeted. When my brother was in third grade, the doctor set his forearm upside down after it was broken. If that would have been my son instead of my brother, he wouldn't have ever had to worry about money again. As long as fields refuse to deal with those bad apples (which spoil the whole bunch), they are endangering patients, so that is why they need to pay premiums. Cinsidering how that the worst actors could never actually pay the settlements, there is a good reason why malpractice insurance exists. Then again, considering your lack of understanding in one area where your Dunning Kruger is kicking in, I can't be surprised that it kicks in other places, too.
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AUTONOMEN LX I wrote, made calls, and signed petitions to get Medicare for All, and I supported the one candidate who actually supported Medicare for All in the Presidential race. As part of a larger effort in Philadelphia (I did mine with DSA and Philly for Bernie, but other groups such as Health Care 4 All PA and Neighborhood Networks played a role as well), I personally knocked on hundreds, if not thousands of doors and got others to sign petitions, call their member of Congress, and do the same thing I was doing, and we got two members of Congress (Dwight Evans and Brendan Boyle) to sign on.
And yes, I used a first person that didn't include the Force the Vote crowd, because when I ask what you have done, I either get silence, people who think that hashtag activism is activism, or excuses. Considering the fact that you tend to think that demanding a vote and "holding people to their word" when if people actually followed their word would be 100 votes shy in the House and 37 in the Senate shows a lack of understanding of how to accomplish anything.
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@TheAcousticgrace I have watched enough of Jimmy Dore to know what I saw. If anyone else had invoked 24 to justify torture, he wouldn't have said, "You don't really support torture do you?" "Okay, good. Now we've got that out of the way."
The votes simply are not there, so what good will having a vote do? It will do worse than nothing, because it will discredit the movement as wasting time on a bill that was 100 votes shy.
I care because stuff like this distracts from the necessary work, and it is done to discredit those people who actually are doing the work. You said "if not now, when?" The answer is when the work is done and we get 218 & 50. Every attempt at universal or near-universal health care that failed in this country meant that any effort would lie dormant for at least a decade, and the next one would be weaker than the last. Why do you think this time would be any different? If it is what you really want, do you really want to see it fail only for a public option vote more than 10 years away to follow? If Force the Vote isn't going to Do the Work, why do you think that you would be successful in primarying 104 incumbents?
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@DemonDante1000 You're not "part of a coalition that can't be taken for granted and has to be listened to." How well did that work out after 2000? Or 2016? You're not part of any coalition as long as you are Green, except for with Republicans given how much they help you out with ballot access and lawyers when you're too incompetent to fill out a petition form properly and you can gum up the works to make it harder for everyone else to vote like in Wisconsin the last time.
No, you didn't answer the question. You just insist that by helping Republicans win that you are the power breakers. Well, Democrats won plenty of elections without you. With that less than 1% Greens get in most elections, you're barely an afterthought. Oh, but this one, where you openly say that you want the would-be fascist dictator to win, will be the one where Democrats do what you want. You didn't answer because the first step to your plan has happened twice, and instead of the leftist utopia you promised, we got the Iraq War, the Roberts Court, and an attempted coup. Great plan!
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@DemonDante1000 No, wait. I just woke up, and my brain is just now seeing it. Here is what it means that enough people tried it your way: at one point, you specifically said that WHEN (caps yours) Trump wind in November, then Democrats will have no choice but to listen to you. Well, in 2000, the number of Nader voters in Florida were nearly 200 times the number Bush "won" by. And did a hardcore lefty win the nomination in 2004? No, Kerry did. In 2016, exit polls showed that Johnson and Stein voters overwhelmingly favored Hillary to the point where it definitely made the difference for Trump in Michigan and Wisconsin and possibly in Pennsylvania. So, using the accelerationist argument that you made in that sentence, the Democrats should have done what you wanted, but Bernie got a lower percentage of the vote the second time out. And Bush and Trump nominated five members of the Supreme Court.
So, Step One of your Underpants Gnomes theory if political change not only didn't bring the leftist utopia you claim to want, but it brought us to the brink of a fascist dictatorship.
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@DemonDante1000 Re: what the American people want, how many Americans have you actually talked to to try to organize to get the world that you claim to want? I'm guessing my number is higher than yours. In some of those conversations, I was working with the DSA to help Bernie and to build support for Medicare for All to pressure members of Congress in the Philadelphia area to sign on to Bernie's bill. In several conversations, I noticed that there were a lot of people who actually wanted a public option when mentioning Medicare for All. The Kaiser Family Foundation poll showed that a majority who supported Medicare for All were vaguely talking about universal coverage. (This was no doubt helped along with grifters like Yang calling his proposal Medicare for All when it wasn't even a public option, and Buttigeig with Medicare for All Who Want It.) So, when the needle didn't move despite Biden saying he wouldn't sign Medicare for All, once I was removed enough from the bubble of a campaign, I realized that was because those numbers didn't mean what we thought we did. So, to apply this to your argument, if Americans really wanted a third party, we'd have one, but the fact that none has gotten 5% since Perot, only one third party or third-party candidate has gotten 5% or more in successive elections (Perot, although the Socialists just missed that in 1916 after getting 6% in 1912), and every third party that has gotten 5% has gotten far less votes the second time around says that maybe, just maybe, Americans don't want a third party long term, especially if one or both of the major parties will adopt their proposals if they actually prove to be popular enough.
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UBI is one of these programs where the details are very important. The two most important are what to do with existing programs and how it is taxed.
The worst forms of UBI that must be avoided are those that are intended to replace the existing social safety net. The best programs act as a supplement, and the worst act as a replacement. Looking at the latter, Friedman saw it as a way to get rid of existing programs, and Yang made his version either/or, and refused to say which programs people would have to forego in order to receive benefits except to say that it was a total of 125 programs with only six mentioned: TANF, SNAP, LIHEAP, SSI, daycare subsidies, and housing subsidies. So, if you're part of the other 119, you end up finding out that you get less than you expected or nothing at all.
As far as payment goes, the best would be things like taxing profit from those who benefit from automation. The absol worst is a consumption tax, because that disproportionately affects the poor, which means that at best you are hitting the gas and brakes at the same time, and at the worst you are increasing wealth inequality. The most regressive forms of taxation are consumption-based, such as sales or a VAT. If you are also finding ways to make sure that "everyone" doesn't include the poor, it's the worst of both worlds.
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@hydratanksamari I don't know if the OP is being sincere or trolling, but expanding the child tax credit helps pay bills, but we need construction (including public housing) so people can actually buy a house, and we need to do things that our capitalist system will not crack down on when it comes to who can buy a home.
In order to get a home loan, banks tend to say that you can't borrow if the house to income ratio is greater than 4:1. In 1950, the median house was less than twice the median income. Today, that ratio is closer to 8. And it's harder to save because rent is so high, so the down payment is that much lower, which means that mortgage payments are higher and people have to pay mortgage insurance. If you can somehow manage to overcome all this and still find a house, shell purchasers will offer to pay above the asking price and in cash, so good luck competing with that. Then, the shell purchasers turn around and put a For Rent sign up, and because way too many people who should be in the housing market are forced into the rental market, prices go sky high, meaning that you can't save, and the cycle gets worse and worse.
Housing is in a death spiral at this point, and everyone except for renters benefits from higher prices (landlords get to charge higher rent, sellers get more money, real estate gets its cut, local governments get more revenue from property taxes, which means schools are better, and homeowners get to show off how rich they are), so there is no market incentive to address the problem.
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@nicholasrapose196 I agree that he's incredibly frustrating. When I lived in West Virginia, I voted for other candidates as a protest, because he was never in any close races. (Had I stayed longer, I would have voted for him in the 2008 primary because his primary opponent ran to his right.) However, I would have voted for him in a heartbeat if those races were close. But what do you expect from someone in a state where Trump won by 42 and 39 points? Maybe if we mobilized ourselves more in close races in Maine and North Carolina, we wouldn't be in this situation in the first place. I get the frustration, but we shouldn't take it to self-destructive places. I'm all for anything to embarrass him as long as he does awful stuff like this and won't vote in a way that helps his constituents more often. (In all honesty, I think he's going to retire, because he used to be much better at threading the needle to avoid completely alienating the left, and when he was the deciding vote, he didn't torpedo legislation in the past, just wanted to water it down.)
Now, Sinema on the other hand, hers is just baffling. Her state went blue in 2020, barely went red in 2016, and there is another Senator to her left in the state who is far more popular.
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@nodnarbeht9505 Yes, because autocorrect forgets that there are two Virginias all the time. I've had autocorrect change words, but I've literally never seen it delete words when you spell out an entire word that fits the contexts and works as a state.
And you want to know what helps Republicans get into power? They celebrate every accomplishment no matter how small, and if we get 90% of what we want, we spend all of our time complaining about the 10% that we didn't get. That, and the fact that too many of our voters are a) lazy (won't bother to vote), and/or b) have no sense of strategy (think that voting third party is a viable strategy to get what you want). I dealt with tons of people who whined that the stimulus check was $1400 instead of $2000, and others who complained that because they didn't have kids, they didn't get the child tax credit.
Then again, I'm not the one who wants to literally hand power to Mitch McConnell and think that's going to suddenly help. Pro tip: the American people don't really care who controls Congress. If things don't happen, they blame the President's party, and you want to guarantee that literally nothing will happen for the next year, which will guarantee that literally nothing will for the next two.
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@ravendawnhead97 Yang doesn't just want to cut SSI and SNAP. He wants to cut a total of 125 programs, but he has only listed seven that he didn't walk back because they were politically unfeasible: TANF, SNAP, WIC, SSI, LIHEAP, daycare subsidies, and housing subsidies. Just to use an example about people "not needing it," imagine a single parent making $20,000/year. That parent has two young children. Daycare for two children is well over $1000/month, so either that person will have to give up the benefits that make his/her job possible (and someone at that income level is almost certainly also on SNAP and WIC), or get nothing and have to pay an extra 10% on everything that Yang doesn't deem essential.
And your talk about making it more generous and including children is rebutted by Yang himself who told Ben Shapiro that he wouldn't increase it because the "magic of a thousand bucks a month is that it is below the poverty level for one person, so people would need to work in order to have any life that motivates them" (emphasis his). He doesn't want a more expensive program. He wants to destroy the existing social safety net. There will always be poor and disabled people, and there will always be frictional unemployment. Ignoring that is totally callous.
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@OfficialSeth Heck, yeah! I, too, was one of the Draft Warren people, although I gave up by the summer of 2015. I remember seeing Bernie on The Ed Show (sadly, the last consistent voice for workers on major American TV to this day), and Bernie kept saying, "If no one will run to stand up against Wall Street greed, I will!" Looking back, I think that he was probably one of the people behind the scenes begging hard for her to run, but sometimes in life, fortune favors the brave. Now, her proposals seem disappointing in comparison.
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@IceMetalPunk The term began less than a month after the election. Why should the people be deprived of representation because of bad luck in the system. In the example in the video, Mel Carnahan died a month before the election, and the governor had already said that he would appoint his widow to seat if he won. The vast majority of the time, it tends to be a relative, widow(er), or top staffer.
In states that do it the way you want, there is an incredible advantage for the living candidate. In 2002, Paul Wellstone died in a plane crash less than two weeks before the election. He was leading in the polls before his death, but Minnesota required a living candidate to be on the ballot, so Democrats nominated Walter Mondale about a week before the election. Mondale lost narrowly. If Minnesotans wanted to vote for Wellstone in tribute, that should have been their right.
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@IceMetalPunk That's the theory, but it's not the reality. The main difference between left and center is that the left realizes that very few people will climb the ladder, so the desire is to make things better for the most people. The center (which accepts the right's fundamental argument about hierarchy) just wants to make it easier for the chosen few to climb the ladder. Do you think it's a good thing that five schools (Yale, Penn, Harvard, Columbia, USNA) have had such dominance in national elections for nearly 50 years?
And you know why a good mechanic is a different question than a good area of governance? Because one is very specialized, and the other is not. You didn't even have a response to the basic flaw in using percentages as a metric for determining who gets to run your Ministry of Medicine (which also has Peter Principle problems written all over it, because while Ben Carson is a great surgeon, his goofy answer on Medicaid shows that he doesn't have the first clue about administration) is that it ultimately reinforces the ridiculous notion that this is God's way of determining who is smart and who is poor, except Ron Swanson is a caricature meant to be funny.
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Kommisar 1) In the book, Kropotkin does the math to figure out how much work it would take for each person to do the work to produce enough food for everyone. While he didn't use the term field trip, his idea was that it would be a fun excursion of two or three days a year for people to produce food.
2) I am well aware that we don't live in an agrarian society. The point is that with no money, no government, and no organization, distributing the food that gets produced becomes a lot less efficient. I could also ask who is going to maintain the roads so that the supply chain can continue to get the food to people.
3) You completely sidestepped the question of the accumulation of wealth. There will always be some way to measure the exchange of goods and services. Some people are better at managing the same amount. Therefore, those people will end up with a surplus. Eventually, someone who is not as good at handling money (I am using it as a general term for whatever society uses as the measurement for goods and services, even if not cash as we know it, so I am not talking about a semantic argument) or has some misfortune fall will need assistance. If there is no government, and over time the people who are really good at handling money are able to accumulate (and no government means no taxation or way to confiscate such wealth) to the point where people come to them. The cycle repeats itself. You cannot stop the accumulation of wealth without a government, period. Unless you want everyone to barely have enough to survive, but based on your response to the second point, you clearly don't.
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@marconapolitano2821 I'm sorry, based on your initial comment on a video decrying tax shelters for the obscenely wealthy and the pseudo-populist tone of your other comment, I thought I was dealing with an anarcho-socialist. I now realize that I responded to the wrong type of Underpants Gnomes thinking and that you are a right-wing libertarian. This will make me more informed about what I am responding to.
1) The Conquest of Bread is a famous book in anarchist circles. When mentioning his ideal society, the author says that most work will be unnecessary, as would be the divide between rural and urban. He uses some basic math to figure out how much work it would take per person in order to provide enough food for the population and insists that such work would be joyful, but call it a hunch, I don't think many will volunteer for shoveling manure. Since I initially misread you, that's what I was responding to.
2) And how does charity work on the aggregate? Before the New Deal, 2/3 of Americans over 65 lived in poverty, and this was fairly constant. With Social Security, senior poverty is now 10%. The begging everyone on GoFundMe does not provide all of our needs.
3) And what was the literacy rate and the percentage of the adults who graduated high school when private companies controlled schools? How long did it take to drive across the United States when private companies built roads, and what was their state of repair?
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Kommisar At least I know a) the difference between embarrasses and embarrassing, b) that right wing talking points don't get lefties to say "you're right, I should never post again" on a lefty channel, and c) I have actually read The Conquest of Bread, so I know what I'm criticizing. Apparently, you don't seem to understand when someone is critical of something, either.
And again, the projected shortfall is easy to overcome. If the cap were doubled, it would be eliminated. If it were eliminated completely, it would more than double the projected deficits (which are based on a moderately pessimistic version of economic growth, anyway). I, for one, and confident that we can average over half of the GDP growth that we have averaged over the past 75 years, and that is where the projected shortfall estimates arise.
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@AcmePotatoPackingPocatello You said $4 for 300 miles and $97 from LA to Seattle and back for the electricity. Now, I initially miscalcluated in based it on 400 miles instead of 300 miles, but that would mean that one dollar of fuel is 75 miles. 75×97 is actually closer to 7300 miles, and I knew that there was no way that a round trip could be that far, because that is Boston to LA territory.
Also, I am well aware of the effects of CO2. My point was that you said that your car is "carbon neutral." It isn't. Never mind the question of where your electricity comes from, the actual production of the car causes a lot more pollution, including greenhouse gases, than conventional cars. Hence, the notion that you would have to own that car for a long time to break even compared to a conventional car. It's not that your intentions are bad (far from it), but thinking that any car is carbon neutral is incorrect. So, if you buy another one relatively quickly, you are actually causing more pollution than just keeping a conventional compact or sub-compact for a very long time.
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@HTownCharlieBrown When Manchin was governor and there were two coal mine explosions within as many weeks in 2006, he ordered every single mine in the state closed until safety audits could be conducted and a stronger mine safety law passed. It took three days.
That same year, he passed an increase in the state minimum wage.
After Sandy Hook, he led the effort to strengthen background checks on gun purchases. He usually goes just far enough left to avoid a primary defeat, and not an inch farther, but this was his true profile in courage moment.
He got his seat by defeating someone who wanted to abolish Social Security, Medicare, and the minimum wage. He has done a lot to be angry about, but he is literally the only Democrat who can win statewide in WV right now. Doug Jones got some slack for being in a state that Trump won by 25, but Manchin has managed to hold on in a state Trump won by 40. Call out the bad stuff, but have some perspective.
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@Xianfaquanli Ah, yes. The old right-wing talking point about how you don't oppose increasing wages for workers because you are anti-worker, but because you are really pro-worker and don't want to see workers lose jobs. Well, besides the fact that it is phased in over several years (Bernie's plan is four, the House bill that passed was seven), and the states and municipalities that increased it to $15 did not see an increase in unemployment or inflation relative to the surrounding areas that didn't do it, what opposing increasing the minimum wage wage really tells me is that a lot of people who claim to care about working people are just fine with poverty and starvation wages.
And I think you missed my entire point. First of all, I don't care if they get one book at all, that is a tax that still harms them. Second, there are plenty of things that people do buy that may very well be considered a "luxury" under this definition that they will pay. Third, if he had made his proposal both/and and actually wanted to use a progressive tax to pay for it instead of continuing his streak as the I Give Up candidate, then there would be no chance of imagining a scenario where his plan hurts the poor and disabled. Finally, in your "not hurting them," you are forgetting how inequality works. The complaint about wages isn't that they have gone down, but that they have stagnated relative to inflation, and as the rungs get farther apart on the economic ladder, that harms the people at the bottom, so if everyone gets benefits but them (and the ones who currently get benefits that are less than $1000/month don't get the full benefit because they have to give up what they currently get in order to get his money), they will suffer and income inequality will get worse. Great plan!
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@digitalperson108 The Electoral College exists for two reasons:
1) the Founders didn't trust the people to decide (See also: United States Senate)
2) the slaveholders wanted to be able to use slaves (who they thought of as subhuman except when it came to raping the women to get more property) to leverage greater power.
That being said, let's talk about its rarely spoken effect on democracy: it encourages lower vote turnout. This is because the number of electoral votes is fixed, and there are times when fewer people vote in states with more say. Not a lower percentage, fewer people. Here are some examples:
Maine (4 EV): 819,461 total votes
New Hampshire (4 EV): 806,182 total votes
West Virginia (5 EV): 794,731 total votes
Oregon (7 EV): 2,374,321 total votes
Kentucky (8 EV): 2,136,768 total votes
Minnesota (10 EV): 3,277,171 total votes
Wisconsin (10 EV): 3,298,041 total votes
Tennessee (11 EV): 3,053,851 total votes
So, tell me, how is this fair again? I get that you are trying to pretty up opposing democracy, but tell me why states where fewer people voted should get a larger absolute say in who gets elected.
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@AdamSmith-gs2dv The leaders per capita within the last week were Idaho, Montana, West Virginia, Georgia, Florida, Wyoming, Alabama, South Carolina, Kentucky, North Dakota, and Pennsylvania. In other words, you have to go through nine red states and a state with a Republican governor shunning such mandates before finding a blue state with a Democratic governor, and that governor lost a lot of his power of emergency declarations when the Legislature took it to the people that they could override any emergency declaration after 21 days.
In the rolling per capita count, New Jersey is 44th, being led by Maine, Connecticut, Massachusetts, New York, Kansas, and Rhode Island. So, either blue states or states with a Democratic governor.
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@aliamjon2550 I do have a child. Then again, the fact that I am not a selfish jerk tells me that I should feel sorry for the life lessons that you are teaching your children.
No, why I feel that way is because when I was younger, my family didn't have health insurance. My dad worked harder than just about anyone I know, but he didn't make much money and worked a job that didn't offer it. My brother broke his arm when I was in fifth grade and he was in third, and three weeks later, my mom found out that she needed her gallbladder removed, but no one would do it because of a nearly $5000 outstanding bill. Finally, after eight months, a bank gave him a loan for a down payment on the surgery, and the gallbladder became gangrenous. My mom nearly died because of selfish jerks like you whining about "long lines." I'm not teaching my daughter to fail on the lessons of basic humanity like you did and do.
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@robinsss No, that is not the issue. Things are owned privately and publicly, and there are things that are for public use and not for public use. If either or both are public, you are not allowed to discriminate. The fact that you want anything that is for public use to be allowed to be discriminatory is appalling.
Aside from my example of travelers not being able to use public highways due to discrimination by restaurants, gas stations, and hotels is shameful, and you want to go back to the days where such things are possible, there are also small rural towns with only one grocery store. If that store suddenly decides that it wants to discriminate (which you want them to be allowed to do), you are in effect making that town unlivable for those who are discriminated against. Once again, libertarian thought is based on self-centeredness and callousness, because you don't care about how your beliefs affect others.
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@robinsss No, it is your job to prove you care, when your actions show indifference to people and you insist that you actually do care. The effect on people never seems to matter at all in libertarian thought.
I get that you want to pretend that you're engaging in the issue, but I have answered your question about the difference between a private club and a business that is open to the public many times. When you open your business to everyone, you are bound by certain rules in how you treat the public.
Re: government owned grocery stores and gas stations, I never said that it was inherently good or bad. There's a town in Florida that bought its grocery store when the Almighty Market said that it was too small to be profitable and threatened to turn them into a food desert, and they're doing just fine. You're the one who has no problem with people doing business using public infrastructure to discriminate against people to the point where you pretend that you are compassionate by saying that you'd make an exception if it was life or death, but the Texas abortion ban proves how hollow those exceptions are, because those who want to ignore the exception will insist that it's not really a life or death situation after all. And you getting mad when I point out the effect of discrimination in gas stations and grocery stores, especially in isolated areas, seems more like someone mad that he got called out than someone who actually cares about how it affects people.
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In 2006, I ran against Carmichael when he was in the House of Delegates. Even though the district (most of Jackson County) is not a coal producing area, when I pointed in our debate out that coal will run out and demand for renewables will grow, so we should be ready and put wind and tidal turbines in the county, he went hysterical and said that I was trying to put coal out of business, never mind that I never said anything of the kind about shutting down companies for anything other than safety violations (I was endorsed by the UMWA, he was endorsed by the WV Coal Association). A few days after the debate, I was knocking on doors in Ravenswood when a coal miner saw me, said that he was in the debate, and he thanked me for telling the truth. Sadly, some people will always chase the dollar instead of fighting for the worker. Thank you, Richard Ojeda, for being on the side of working people!
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@vincesmith2499 "Then GET property. It's not that hard."
Do you know anything about the real world, or is everything a hypothetical for you? The usual rule of thumb in order to get a loan is a debt to income ratio of no more than 4:1. In 1950, the median house in America cost a little less than twice than the median income. Today, that ratio is over 7:1. Still, if you somehow manage to save up enough to make a down payment and make a bid even though rental costs are through the roof (since you want landlords to be able to charge whatever they want, obviously that isn't going to change), then you have to deal with fronts for private equity firms bidding way over market price (a friend of my daughter had to move a couple years ago when her dad got a job out of state, and someone bid $40K over asking price in cash), and a few months later, the For Sale sign gets replaced with a For Rent sign, with astronomical rates that cause a ripple effect throughout the market, both increasing demand for rent (which increases the price) and reducing the supply for buyers (which increases price). All things that your belief system encourages, or at the very least does nothing to rein in. How does it feel to be a 21st-century Marie Antoinette?
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@definitiveentertainment1658 I think of it this way: you don't get a dollar by asking for a quarter. Obama tried to get the public option, which was already a compromise, and we ended up with the Republican alternative to Hillarycare that Bill said didn't go far enough. If Bernie tries and fails for Medicare for All and has to settle for a public option, I can live with that, but if we start with a public option, we're doomed from the start.
I think there is also the Overton Window effect. In 1981, Reagan was considered radical for dropping the top marginal tax rate to 50%. Now, asking for a top rate of 50% is seen as radical on the left. Even if Bernie doesn't get all of what he wants, he'll get some, and that's good enough for me, because instead of the last three Democratic Presidents each having a legitimate claim to the title Most Conservative Democratic President Since Grocer Cleveland. Bernie will stop that streak, and maybe be Most Lefty President Since Franklin Roosevelt, or maybe he won't even need the qualifier.
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@1MarkKeller You started by saying "be careful about Vote Blue No Matter Who," and you gave Manchin as the example and how he tries to appeal to Republicans. Well, like it or not, if we are going to win races in red states, they might have to get a little slack. (And before you point out that Bernie won WV in 2016, that was obviously a case of people voting against Hillary. Heck, an incarcerated felon got 41% against Obama in 2012.) Then, you pivoted to Ryan "appealing to Republicans." Well, assuming turnout more or less matches 2020, he needs his base to be 15% of Republicans to get over the top. Manchin needs his to be at least 40% Republican. Can you see the difference between the two? What am I missing?
I, for one, follow the adage of "the farthest candidate to the left who can win." Like it or not, that is Manchin in West Virginia. (Or was, because he burned a lot of bridges on BBB, and since he barely beat Morrissey in 2018 and will be 77 at the end of his term, I doubt that he'll run again.)
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@Nekulturny So true about meeting your heroes. When I was four, I was big a fan of George Jones. My parents found out that he was doing a show about an hour from our house, and we were supposed to get to meet him. Not only did that not happen, but his bodyguards were quite hostile (and I didn't remember all of the details because I was four, but my mom who stands all of 4'8 was trying to get a picture of the concert, and said bodyguard "moshed" where we were standing right into her and when she got the pictures, every single one was blurry.) The next day, I said, "I don't think I like George Jones anymore," and 38 years later, I've never voluntarily listened to his music since.
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I get the feeling, since Iowa was never really close until 2016 (Obama won by seven, Kerry won by six, Gore won by 29, Harkin won by 72, Gephardt won by four, Mondale by 33, Carter won by 15 the first time and 28 the second time, and Muskie won by 13), close enough was all they thought they needed since the real vote was delegates to the county convention which came later. Not defending it at all, but this is an example of the margin of error exceeding the margin of victory, and you'd think they would have been ready, but you would be wrong.
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I got a MyPillow about seven years ago, before realizing how crazy he was, and two or three years later, I got one for my young daughter, because she kept wanting to use mine. Howecer, it gets a lot flatter quicker than it used to. It's still under warranty, but I don't want him knowing my new address. It's a struggle between the not wanting waste money side or myself and the not wanting bombarded with stuff from a crazy rught winger (I wpuld fairly reguarly get mailers, maybe one or two at a month for a while, but then I got flooded in the fall of 2020). If he would have just not sold dangerous conspiracy theories, he probably would have been remembered as someone who turned his life around and hired local people, but his hubris did him in.
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@beanabovethefrank1499 Indeed. Then again, how is that any different than what they're doing now? Jack Ciattarelli is already insisting that the election isn't over once it become obvious that Phil Murphy beats him. If he wants to wait until the certification to make a final statement, so be it, but this is usually how it starts.
I get the pain of losing an election. I ran for a legislative seat 15 years ago and lost big. Admittedly, I knew when there were five precincts were left that the lead was insurmountable (there were 24 total in the district), and I told the press that I knew I lost, and I would formally concede after the final votes were in, but they understood, waited the 20 minutes or so until the last few precincts came in, let me privately congratulate my victorious opponent, and then I got to bow out with dignity. I didn't love saying that I lost, but I congratulated my opponent, wished him, the district, and the state all the best over the next two years because it was the right thing to do.
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A Oh And as long as we are talking about personal experiences, my parents and my niece came to visit, and while here, we went on a couple of factory tours (Herr's Snack Factory and Tour in Nottingham, and the Martin Guitar Factory Tour and Museum in Nazareth), and in each case, human hands caused a bottleneck in production (finding rotten potatoes at the former, lacquering at the latter) where having a machine do it caused an increase in employment, and everyone in the lacquer department was retrained so no one lost a job. Automation can be done in a way to benefit the few, or the many, and giving up and just saying "take away all of our jobs and give us a little bit of money" is not going to benefit anyone.
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@bluesrockfan36 "We progressives" don't support regressive taxation and a version of the UBI that was descended from Milton Friedman and Charles Murray that was designed to get rid of the existing social safety net. The difference between the two is that they wanted to get rid of it right away, which made it more obvious what they were doing, but Yang wants to do it gradually. Yes specifically told Dave Rubin that this was his ultimate goal. He told Ben Shapiro that he wouldn't increase it because "the magic of a thousand bucks a month is that it is below the poverty level for one person, which means that people have to work if they want any life of meaning" (emphasis added).
Now, just like the other people who think they have crunched the numbers, you are forgetting one thing: a lot of poor and disabled people won't get jack squat. Here are some examples, based on the six programs of the 125 that Yang has mentioned that will force people to give up in order to get his money:
1) TANF in New Hampshire is over $1000
2) TANF in Alaska is $923 (and they don't forfeit their oil reserve fund, either), and it is over $700 in New York and California. Once you add SNAP, they are over $1000. And those families are probably also getting LIHEAP.
3) Daycare for two children in PA is over $1500/month, and those families will almost certainly get WIC.
4) Housing subsidies is well over $1000 in high rent areas.
So, you want some poor single parent who is working to get nothing and then have to pay a VAT? That is the lefty objection to the freedom with 125 strings attached dividend. It doesn't help poor people, it hurts them.
You think that techno-libertarian is a dog whistle? You're funny. It refers to a lot of Silicon Valley types who like to present themselves as lefties, but when you dig into their politics and their business practices, they are as libertarian as they come. So, what did you think I meant?
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@lenas6246 Indeed. The other day, my dad was telling me that, instead of spending $1000-1500 on a family fun vacation, I should have saved that money to buy a house. I'm sorry, but if you bought a house in the 20th century or in an economically depressed area (he did both, but for an example of the latter, my brother bought a house for $25K and my aunt bought one for $20K in my hometown in the past few years), you really don't understand what people are up against. Quite frankly, if I want my daughter to get a decent education, because this country has the goofy notion of paying for education with property taxes and didn't see the vicious cycle that would so obviously cause once education became more important, that means that a sheriff's sale is probably the only way someone born after 1970 can afford a house in a place with quality schools. Heck, every time I turn around, I see a For Sale sign and a month or two later, it gets replaced with a For Rent sign and some obscene price tag that makes my obscene rent seem affordable and cheap by comparison.
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@timn5008 I'm just asking what you did. You're the one who implied that I was a Biden backer in the primary. And I didn't say "what did you give?" I said "what did you do?" I knocked on doors, made phone calls, served as a petition drive captain, and did a reading for a fundraiser. I will not have someone who doesn't understand how math works or building a majority works.
And I work and am a single parent, and I managed to find the time to actually do things. Then again, I actually did those things because I supported Bernie, not because I opposed someone else, which sounds like what you did with your ageist remarks. Bernie did more for you than just about every other political figure in your life, and because he understands math and you don't, you have the nerve to call him weak? His slogan was "Not Me, Us" for a reason.
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@coreysaylor4736 Yeah, that happened in 2000 and 2016. How did that work out? The only way that these sort of things work is to take over from the inside. People who make that argument seem to forget that, looking at the last realignment that took place, establishment Republicans won in 1968 and '72 and had a narrow miss in '76. Instead of taking our ball and going home, which only makes the establishment more hostile to us and leading too many voters to be so worried about who is there that they don't dare to dream, we need to run down ballot. People need to run for school board, city council, state legislature, and state and local party committees. This way, we get to take over from the establishment. Otherwise, you have to start over from scratch on hostile territory every time.
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@buddygrimfield7954 When was this supermajority? Are you talking about the whole seven months when Democrats held 60 Senate seats and one of those Senators was very sick and could only come to the floor when his vote was essential to the result? Because before that, you have to go all the way back to the Johnson Administration to see at least 60 Democratic Senators and unified control of elected government.
"Most (I would think) people consider it crazy to vote only against people rather than for them."
Well, other than those who insist on the wooing and wondering why they get nothing, that's a pretty common thing, and ignoring it can have tragic consequences. Imagine how world history would have changed if the DKP and the SPD agreed to form a coalition in 1933 rather than the former insisting that the Nazzty threat was a temporary one. The only thing Blue and White could agree on was that Netanyahu had to go.
To see the difference in your strategy vs. the one that I advocate, look at the Green Party vs. the religious right. Which group actually got any of the things that it wanted this century, the group that said it was above it all and that people shouldn't vote for the lesser evil, or the people who complained about several of their nominees but who always showed up to vote? They didn't gain that control because they sat back and whined about how much they hated the Rockefeller Republicans. They did the grassroots organizing, took over school boards, took over local parties, and by the time they were ready to flex their muscles, they dominated American politics for a generation. The left atrophied in the 1970s and 80s to the point where you had people trying to do something, anything, to win. And then, by the turn of the century, you had the people who decided that they were above it all and didn't want to get their hands dirty wondering why they always lost. The candidates I have worked or volunteered for over the years may have a record that would get a coach fired, but at least I am fighting and trying to move that Overton Window over. And, yes, a lot of those candidates lose, but sometimes it's like a vending machine. You can't knock it over with one push. You have to keep going. It took the Socialists and the Populists 40 years to see many of their ideas come to fruition with FDR. If they're willing to fight, who are we to give up?
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@vibefrequencyable In the national polling average, she is eighth. In no early state is she higher than fifth or sixth. Quite frankly, if you look at actual polls, Bernie was not the beneficiary of the Harris attack, it was Warren. But in a deeper sense, the bigger beneficiary was and continues to be Biden, because he was the one getting attacked when Tulsi decided to change the subject. She defended Biden on busing and Iraq. The latter should prove once and for all that she isn't the peace candidate she claims to be.
How much more evidence do you need that she is helping Biden? She isn't viable anywhere, so if her votes would have otherwise gone to Bernie, that hurts him. If you argue that you want to see her in the debate, so be it, but if you didn't notice, her attack on Buttigieg totally backfired. She is losing her mojo.
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@alienzenx Bill Clinton was impeached, but he was not removed from office. If you want to talk about this, maybe brush up on Article I so you can make informed comments. Three Presidents have been impeached (Andrew Johnson, Clinton, Trump), but none have been removed. Nixon resigned before he could be impeached, because Barry Goldwater told him that there were enough votes to remove him.
And, again, if you think that violating the Emoluments Clause is not a crime, you are woefully uneducated. If you want me to comment further, show that you actually understand basic terms.
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@timmarshall7292 I only saw the second response, so it makes more sense to answer the first. That's why I deleted it, because I came to realize that it was a response to something different entirely. As far as the Democratic Party solving all of society's ills, I don't think any individual or any party can do that. However, I think that, on the whole, the Democratic Party is the better of the two major parties in terms of its goals and what has happened when it has been the dominant party. I think it's interesting that you keep referring to "30-40 years," because that has been a time of dominance of the right.
Yes, it is good business to do right by employees, but there is a lot of evidence that some cheaters do prosper, especially when given a free rein as they have been for decades. Watch what happens to a company's stock when it announces layoffs or outsourcing: prices go up, because it is seen as cutting expenses. There are a lot of members of the Fortune 500 that rely on sweatshop labor.
As far as "make yourself more valuable," there is nothing in any job that makes its value inherent now and for always. At the turn of the 20th century, factories had some of the lowest pay rates and worst working conditions in the world. When it became unionized, those became the best jobs for blue-collar workers.
As far as worshipping the King of Kings, did He not say that you cannot worship both God and Money? And, just to clarify, I'm not a socialist. Probably, the closest to my economic beliefs would be an updated version of Populism, the real kind, not this fake right-wing version that tries to divide and belittle workers. That, and a healthy mix of Keynes, the only economic theorist I've ever seen to actually to try to look at the real world instead of his ivory tower when formulating his ideas, and when we were closer to them, the economy grew faster and more people reaped those benefits than when we went to laissez faire.
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@Schmidty1 Well, then, if it is supposedly fake, why did Tulsi say it was real on The View?
I am aware that you can't just go anywhere in a foreign country, but if your trip is for "fact finding," and you are only getting a tour of the places they want you to go, a lot of things can be hidden. If the mission is "diplomacy," how can you practice diplomacy by only talking to one side?
Regarding his popular support, you don't know what is legitimate and what isn't in a brutal dictatorship. Saddam Hussein got 100% of the vote in 2002. And you don't know how much "popular support" now is "we tried, but we lost. Please, don't kill us!"
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@Schmidty1 She did praise Putin. She praised him for "getting tough on terror when Obama won't" when he bombed Syria.
You are being incredibly inconsistent in your argument. You said that she was there to encourage a diplomatic resolution, but the instant that I point out that no such thing can be had with only one side, then you say, "Well, she's not Secretary of State." Then, other than giving good publicity to Assad, what was she there for? You seem to have given up the ghost on the original stated reason (fact finding).
Maybe it's not that I am reaching to "smear" her, or The Nation, Jacobin, Rolling Stone, Michael Brooks, Sam Seder, David Pakman, et al, but looking at the actual evidence, and seeing that maybe people like Steve Bannon, David Duke, and Ron Paul like her for a reason, which isn't what any lefty would see and say, "Yes, I like what I am seeing."
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My family did not have health insurance until my dad got a union job as a saw mill worker when I was 16. When I was in fifth grade, my brother broke his arm, and we got harassed every day for months right at dinner time because the hospital felt that he wasn't paying the bill quickly enough (even though Democrats were still in charge in WV at the time, and it was the law that hospitals had to take any payment no matter how small, as long as you were making an effort to pay). Three weeks later, my mom was told that she needed her gallbladder removed. No hospital would do it without a down payment. Finally, eight months later, she got her surgery, but the gallbladder had become gangrenous. By the grace of God, she is still here. No 11 year old should ever have to worry about his mom dying, and no mother should have to worry about leaving a widower with an 11- and 9-year-old because of a lack of health insurance. This is why I straight up loathe anyone who talks so blithely about how either the free market doesn't kill people who aren't covered or pretend that it is trivial. It's not trivial when it's your family.
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@MrEboxez Indeed. A few years ago, some guys at work asked me why I cared so much about universal health care. I told them about growing up without health insurance until I was 16, and the time I was in fifth grade and my brother was in third, and he broke his arm (two days before my dad got paid so he could get the insurance that covered us on school property), and how we got harassed by creditors for months because they felt that he wasn't paying them fast enough. Then, I told them how a few weeks later, my mom found out that she needed her gallbladder removed, but no hospital would do so for months while my dad tried to get the money together for a down payment on the surgery. In the seven months that it took for him to succeed (he literally had to get a bank loan), her gallbladder became gangrenous, and there but for the grace of God she didn't became a statistic, and they responded with silence. None of them ever did change their position on the issue to my knowledge.
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@joesnake100 Except the false things against Bernie were easily proven, and those of us who support him don't have to contort ourselves into pretzels to defend his record. As far as Tulsi not being friendly to advertisers, see her political courtship of Sheldon Adelson. The last time I checked, I see plenty of ads for casinos on TV. You can "choose to believe" all you want, but when it results in putting your fingers in your ears and singing loudly just because you have a good feeling about her, all while ignoring the massive criticism on the left and massive love on the right, you won't be effective for your candidate. As far as it "helping Tulsi because people don't see through it," she never gets above 2%, and is often under 1. At this point, I'll be shocked if she gets a single pledged delegates.
As far as trying to bring her down in a corporate conspiracy, so The Nation, the Guardian, Jacobin, the Intercept, etc., are all a part of a centrist plot? Look up a David Pakman video that explains the difference between conspiracy theories and conspiracism.
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@joesnake100 If you think Pakman is a Biden supporter, you are ripping away any shred of any intellectual credibility. I specifically mentioned a video about conspiracism which is a frame of mind where one makes assertions without evidence. This is different from conspiracy theories, because at least their advocates try to look at data and evidence.
Speaking of which, you never did explain how Bernie was supposed to win over a group of people who didn't like him and would sooner have held out for a long deadlock to give a new candidate the nomination than give it to someone who got fewer pledged delegates.
You keep saying that Tulsi is opposed to corporations while ignoring her servitude to a casino magnate.
You insist that she is far more popular than 1-2% in the polls even though she didn't get to the fundraising debate threshold until nearly three months after she announced even though Bernie pulled it off in eight hours. Yeah, people like you bombard YouTube comments, but her view counts and subscriber totals are quite low, or is that a conspiracy, too?
You look at politics like a fundamentalist looks at religion. Evidence doesn't matter and the troubling aspects or paradoxes get ignored. You insist that she is the candidate of the left, but you talk about her appeal to the right. Well, the right doesn't cast very many votes, and courting the support of Sheldon Adelson, Steve Bannon, Joe Rogan, and Ron Paul won't help her get the nomination one bit.
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@joesnake100 So, let me get this straight. Joe Rogan, David Duke, Steve Bannon, and Ron Paul are on the left, and people with a long track record of supporting Medicare for All, a living wage, civil rights, voting rights, women's rights, gay rights, and workers rights are really on the right? You are either a troll or the dumbest person on the internet.
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@joesnake100 This is what cult thinking looks like. Bernie and Tulsi will win, but even if they don't, no big deal. Yes, because apparently, they are going to take support equally from Biden and Trump instead of Trump's cult of 40% staying steadfast with the 5% who are not part of the cult but will never vote for anyone to the left of Goldwater will suddenly vote for Bernie Sanders. And, then, let's hypothetically say that they do get some traction rather than mostly take from one side (Google 1912 presidential election), and they get a decent amount of electoral votes, even the most. But they don't get to 270, so it gets decided in the House... where it gets decided by Democrats and Republicans.
And if you think there is no difference at all between Biden and Trump, I have two words for you: Supreme Court. But then again, you don't engage or listen to actual evidence, and I am done wasting my time dealing with someone so fundamentally dishonest.
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@Johnny-h7v1f Date of show and timestamps. You know why? Because there are these things called variations, and the vaccine was so effective against the original virus and the early mutations that, had people have gotten the vaccine in late 2020 and early 2021 and taken it seriously for just a few more months, the virus would have never mutated, and Delta would have never become a thing. As a matter of fact, the original, the Alpha, and the Beta variants? They're pretty much gone. Maddow never said it would happen, she said it could happen, and that was the case before the anti-vaccine crowd insisted on endangering themselves and others. You see, in science, there are these things called data points, and when they change, often the conclusions change as well. A third of the population refusing to get vaccinated or practice any mitigation factors? "Watch me spread and change!"
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@ricardocabeza6006 1) Oh, look. Someone who doesn't understand what a militia is. What a shock! The militia is now known as the National Guard. Article I, Section 8 says that one of the purposes of a militia is to put down rebellion. Article II says that the President is Commander in Chief of "the Army and Navy of the United States and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States." So, when would those LARPers out in the woods be called into service? And anyone who has the paperwork when he/she enlisted in the National Guard can tell you that the oath is to the Governor before the President.
2) A fetus is not the same as a five year old. Ironically, the people who claim to care about life care far more about the former than they do the latter.
3) There are plenty of things in the Constitution that don't have to be explicitly spelled out to be a right therein. One of the initial arguments against the Bill of Rights was to say that some would say that if a right wasn't explicitly spelled out in the Bill of Rights that meant that such a right didn't exist. Considering the people who insist that there is no right to privacy or to vote, their fears were not entirely unwarranted.
4) And you have proven the fault in your own logic. While you insist that the right to vote is there, you clearly support making it more difficult to vote. People who live in cities are far less likely to have such paperwork. Ditto the poor and the elderly. When Pennsylvania tried to enact a poll tax, I mean voter ID bill, the state Supreme Court struck it down because a) even its proponents conceded that they could find no examples of impersonation voter fraud in the state, and b) people in Philadelphia were literally twice as likely as the rest of the state to not have such ID. It also didn't help that the House Majority Leader at the time was caught bragging that such a move was explicitly done to throw the election one way. Now, there was a compromise that Manchin offered last year to the Voting Rights Bill that I thought was interesting, because it expanded the list of acceptable identification to include things like utility bills and leases in order to try to solve that problem. Of course, these voter restrictions aren't about election integrity nearly as much as they are about trying to distort the electorate.
Speaking of which, the Constitution doesn't spell out that those who don't own property can vote. Would you support a return to that standard? After all, it's what the Founders wanted.
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@ricardocabeza6006 1) For someone who claims to know the definition, you show no understanding of how these things work. How are those LARPers going to get called into service?
2) So, I take it that you are also a pacifist and opposed to the death penalty? And you don't think that policies that literally increase poverty and make life more difficult for the poor don't end human life?
3) And, yet, here you are making the argument that unless a right is specifically spelled out, it is "legislating from the bench."
4) Re: I-9 forms, it is entirely possible to meet the qualifications without having a photo ID. Therefore, having an ID is not the same thing as having one that is required to vote for those who advocate poll taxes. I even remember what may have been the most ridiculous part of the PA law that got stricken: if someone requested a mail-in ballot, that person had to literally go to the county courthouse to present an ID in order to be allowed to vote. Good luck getting invalids there, especially if they had breathing machines. I did an internship at a nursing home, and a lot of those people would have been denied their right to vote.
It's not about proving the person is who he/she claims to be. For example, Texas allows hunting licenses as acceptable ID, but not student IDs. My veteran's ID card wasn't considered valid under the PA law because it doesn't have an expiration date. I oppose any voter ID law that makes it harder for people to vote in order to correct a nonexistent problem, regardless of where it happens. However, because there are only so many hours in a day, I focus my attention on the most egregious examples.
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@unevilGenius Okay. You didn't answer the question about Catch and Release. It was a tactic pioneered by Tom DeLay. It involves making sure that you get the desired result while allowing members a chance to keep up appearances. In his case, it was about letting "moderate" members appear to be. Barney Frank famously described it as "There is no such thing is a moderate Republican. They might say that they vote with the President [Bush at the time] 70% of the time, but they vote with the President 100% of the time when he needs their votes."
So, there are one of exactly three possible results relative to the sponsor list.
1) The sponsor list is accurate, and the bill falls 100 votes short, killing any possible momentum.
2) The Soft Yes members become Hard No, and now you're even farther away than when you started (considering that at least one sponsor in the 116th who is still in the House isn't on the list in the 117th, this may have already happened).
3) Pelosi uses Catch and Release to let a few members in lefty districts to vote Yes in order to avoid another AOC/Bowman, so you have deflated the momentum against someone like Hakeem Jefferies, and now you have someone who'll never vote Yes if it really is possible.
Tell me, please, how any of these are good if your goal is to actually get to 218 votes in the House?
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@donnewton7858 No, I don't mean age limits. He was 50 when he first got elected. His second term ended on Jan. 20, 1941. Therefore, he couldn't have served as President during WWII.
So, you want to talk about the present? Bernie would have been forced out in Jan. 2019 (after being forced out of the House in Jan. 2003). AOC would be forced out at the age of 41. Barbara Lee would have been forced out in Jan. 2011. Every member of the House that you like in his/her seventh term or more, and ecery Senator you like in his/her third term would be gone.
Those people who you don't like would, if anything, be replaced by someone even worse. The people who you like wouldn't be replaced by someone as good, because they are going to be looking for a soft place to land after their term expires, so they will be even more beholden to corporations, because they won't be nearly as a accountable to the people, and the power will shift to unelected staffers who we can't vote out. Is that really what you want, or do you just support term limits because it sounds good?
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@TheHuxleyAgnostic Yeah, and I don't like age limits for judges, either. When it was put to the voters of PA five years ago to increase the age limit, I supported it. I would have rather eliminated it altogether, but sometimes you take what you can get.
And looking at the Bernie example, he ran for office for the first time at the age of 31, got elected for the first time five months before his 40th birthday, and got elected to Congres at the age of 49. Your "maybe he would have gotten started quicker" counterfactual is ridiculous on the face of it. If you insist on both age limits and candidates with relevant experience, you'll get the worst kind of careerism, because the only people who can get through the gauntlet are people who have never done anything else or tried anything else in their lives. I don't want people to be denied the chance just because they didn't decide to seek higher office as soon as they turned 18. I want people with a wide variety of experiences in the public sphere. If you are talking about cognitive tests where the results are publicized, I am all for it, but I am not and will never be for ageism.
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@Red Leader Okay, now you have just shown what a liar you really are. I don't care if his running mate moved four houses down the road, the rules say that all information has to be accurate on the form. Someone noticed the address discrepancy and Wisconsin sent the Green Party an affidavit they could fill out to correct the error. They didn't do it, so the Elections Board proceeded without the Hawkins/Walker ticket. Municipal clerks did their jobs and went forward with the full list. Then, two weeks later, the Wisconsin Green Party files a lawsuit. They only wanted to gum up the works, and you present this as onerous.
Andrew Yang got kicked off the ballot in the Ohio primary because his campaign didn't bother to include a page saying what office he was running for in his petition. Like you, his campaign went on and on about what an affront to democracy this was, but those rules hadn't changed at all. They were there for all to see. If you are that incompetent, that proves that you are not ready to be President.
If you want to defend such stupidity, that's your business, but the fact that you feel the need to lie about it shows who you really are.
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@standupguy12 Except Yang refuses to provide a full list of the programs that people have to forfeit if they take his money. He has listed a few (TANF, SNAP, WIC, LIHEAP, daycare subsidies, housing subsidies). Based on what we know, there are already people who get more than $1000/month:
1) TANF in New Hampshire is over $1000. In Alaska, it is $923, and New York and California are over $700. With SNAP maxing out for two people above $350, people in those states get more on those programs alone, and they will almost certainly get LIHEAP, too.
2) Housing subsidies
3) Daycare subsidies with multiple children in daycare (and they are probably getting WIC, too)
Those people pay VAT on dollar one, so they will be worse off.
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@standupguy12 *This offer does not apply to the poor who don't get it and have to pay more in taxes.
There, I fixed it for you by putting the asterisk that Yang Gang bangers so conveniently forget. Oh, yes, the Almighty Market will reduce rental costs. Other than a depressed economy, when has the Almighty Market EVER seen an overall reduction in rent? Rent will go up, not by the full thousand, but it will go up. When it does, people won't be able to save for their down payment, and if Yang is right that there won't be any jobs left, and no one can get other benefits, you are creating a world with a few trillionaires and everyone else scraping by on $12,000/year.
The reason why I can't go by what you Yang Gang bangers mean is because you support someone who is so fundamentally dishonest that I have no way of knowing whether or not you really think that or just conveniently always phrase things in a way that makes it sound more generous than it is, like your initial assertion that people have to spend $120K to lose out, even though there are people who won't see any extra money at all and now have to pay a tax.
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@standupguy12 I asked about rent, and you never provided an example of rent going down.
So, let's look at your argument that the freedom with 125 strings attached dividend will let people be mobile. Never mind the inherent contradiction of pimping the extended family in order to make the benefits look more generous, or moving in with friends (which only sounds like a good idea to a poor college student), yes, some people who are close to retirement will be able to move to cheaper land and retire. In my native state, a lot of people from the DC area started to realize how much cheaper the Eastern Panhandle was than the inner metro area and moved out there. End result? Yes, there was economic growth, but rent skyrocketed and homeless tripled from 1980-2005. So, when people have tried your theory, it didn't work. Your candidate opposes rent control, so rural homelessness will increase. It takes a far smaller influx of people to drive up housing costs in a down of two thousand than in a city of two million.
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