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Pinned post for Q&A :)
Justin has written a small annotated bibliography to go along with this video:
Before I start, I must again thank QAZ, Trent Telenko, and Military Aviation History for their assistance with this video. Trent provided a great deal of information on aircraft radios, HF static, and American early warning systems on Guadalcanal. Military Aviation History double-checked my non-Japanese aircraft information. QAZ backed up my poor Japanese language skills and provided me with additional source material that is not otherwise available in English.
Please note this annotated bibliography is not meant to be exhaustive, not even close. Rather, I have chosen to highlight a few works that together serve as a good introduction to the Zero. Unfortunately, there isn't a single book I can point to that is THE reference on the Zero. Instead there are a multitude of works, each with strengths and weaknesses.
Dunn, Richard L. Exploding Fuel Tanks: Saga of Technology that Changed the Course of the Pacific Air War. 2011. This is the only history of the Pacific War focused on aircraft protection. It is eye-opening to say the least, given the amount of gross oversimplification and mythmaking around the subject.
Dunn, Richard L. ZERO-SEN Model 21 Performance: Unraveling Conflicting Data. http://www.j-aircraft.com/research/rdunn/zeroperformance/zero_performance.htm. Accessed February 2, 2020. This is a great article that discusses some of the conflicting data around the A6M2 (Model 21)’s top speed. At the very least, it conclusively throws out several low-end figures, such as that in Mikesh’s book. As an aside, J-aircraft and its forum are an excellent resource generally.
Francillon, René J. Japanese Aircraft of the Pacific War. 2nd ed. London: Putnam Aeronautical Books, 1979. This is still the best single-volume reference book on Japanese aircraft of the Pacific War in English. However, it is now quite old and not without its fair share of errors. The Zero chapter still serves as a good introduction to the aircraft.
Goodwin, Mike and Peter Starkings. Japanese Aero-Engines, 1910-1945. MMP Books, 2017. This is the best single-volume reference on Japanese aero-engines available in English. Naturally, there is a great deal of information related to the engines that powered the various models of the Zero.
Horikoshi, Jiro. Eagles of Mitsubishi: The Story of the Zero Fighter. Trans. Shojiro Shindo and Harold N. Wantiez. Seattle: University of Washington Press, 1981. This book was written by the lead designer of the Zero and is an absolute must-read. It provides a lot of insight into the design of the Zero in particular, but very little on tactics or operations.
Lundstrom, John B. The First Team: Pacific Naval Air Combat from Pearl Harbor to Midway. Annapolis: Naval Institute Press, 1990. This book is a masterpiece. One of the best air power and naval histories ever written. Even over three decades later, The First Team’s central focus (naval air combat) is unsurpassed. Lundstrom’s attention to detail, knowledge of aviation, and use of Japanese as well as English sources set it apart. It is without a doubt one of the best books to read to gain a real understanding of how the Zero fought, and how its opponents fought back.
Lundstrom, John B. The First Team and the Guadalcanal Campaign: Naval Fighter Combat from August to November 1942. Annapolis: Naval Institute Press, 2005. The second volume of Lundstrom’s The First Team series. All of my praise carries over to this work. This picks up in the aftermath of the Battle of Midway, when the air and naval war in the Pacific enters what in my view is the most interesting period: the period of balance (roughly July 1942 through December 1943).
Mikesh, Robert C. Zero: Combat & Development History of Japan’s Legendary Mitsubishi A6M Zero Fighter. Motorbooks International, 1994. I have seen parts of this book and it looks excellent. However, I haven’t read it cover-to-cover yet as it is out-of-print and I only recently ordered a used copy. Mikesh was one of the best historians of Imperial Japanese aviation writing in English.
Millman, Nicholas. Aircraft of the Aces 137: A6M Zero-Sen Aces, 1940-42. Oxford: Osprey Publishing, 2019. Nicholas Millman is an excellent historian of Imperial Japanese aviation and his brand-new and brief introduction to the first two years of the Zero’s service is handy.
Peattie, Mark R. Sunburst: The Rise of Japanese Naval Air Power, 1909-1941. Annapolis: Naval Institute Press, 2001. Mark Peattie’s excellent history of the development of Japanese naval aviation is a must-read. I harped on a lot about context in my video, and this book provides a good amount of it. If I have to state a criticism, his grasp of the finer points of aviation technology is weak in parts. This book is at its best when dealing with the broader points rather than technical minutiae.
Ruffato, Luca and Michael J. Claringbould. Eagles of the Southern Sky: The Tainan Air Group in WWII. 1 vol. Ed. Lawrence Hickey and others. Tainan Research & Publishing, 2012. This is the most detailed history of a Japanese fighter unit currently available in English, making extensive use of both Japanese and English sources.
Sakai, Saburo, Martin Caidin and Fred Saito. Samurai! Annapolis: Naval Institute Press, 1991. While there is a plethora of first-hand accounts from Japanese fighter pilots in Japanese, there is shockingly little available in English. That makes Sakai’s memoir a must-read for those looking for a pilot’s-eye view. However, as with any memoir, one must not accept everything within at face value. Sakai, as with all fighter pilots, overclaimed significantly (which makes it into his memoir) and many dates and critical details are factually incorrect. The hand of Caidin also must be noted, as he was heavily involved in the writing of Samurai! There are some events that appear to have been added by Caidin for this English language work that are entirely fictional.
Tagaya, Osamu. Imperial Japanese Naval Aviator, 1937-45. Oxford: Osprey Publishing, 2003. Tagaya is one of the best historians of Imperial Japanese aviation writing in English. This book is an excellent summary of Japanese Navy aircrew training.
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03:31:31 - What led to the development of the Type XXI boats by the Kriegsmarine in 1943?
03:37:20 - How did Allied ships evade Long Lance torpedoes, since they were often launched from tens of thousands of yards away and often at night? (Once they stopped underestimating them or denying their existence, of course.)
03:39:52 - Machine guns on British battlecruisers?
03:41:53 - Operation Downfall decoy fleet?
03:44:30 - Why did the IJN split into so many forces?
03:49:07 - How soon after Midway were the American carrier torpedo squadrons replaced with TBF/TBMs? Was there a time period where the carriers were without any torpedo squadrons whatsoever?
03:51:14 - Naval mental healthcare?
03:59:07 - Please can you give a brief explanation of how the Royal Navy assigned pennant numbers to its vessels
04:04:13 - War brides in WW2?
04:06:05 - How was U.S torpedo protection after WW1 and how did it improve? Looking at battleships in general.
04:11:54 - Times when penetrations of the armored citadel wasn't severe, but penetrations outside of it were serious or potentially fatal.
04:14:32 - In the lead up to WWII did the US let the IJN transit the Panama Canal and if so what was the last IJN ship to cross the Canal prior to the outbreak of war?
04:16:02 - Why no millitary hydrofoils in the 1930's?
04:20:16 - Who invented breaking the line of battle?
04:26:20 - In 1940, the German-Soviet commercial agreement provided the USSR with a lot of German Naval information, including the plans and blueprints for the Bismarcks, an incomplete Hipper class cruiser, and documentation about German naval tests. How much is of this information was passed on to the allies when relations between Germany and the USSR went sour in 41?
04:28:50 - Invergordon naval base
04:30:56 - Coal to oil infrastructure transition?
04:34:37 - Italian 15" AP penetration?
04:37:35 - Observers and enforcement of the naval treaties?
04:44:03 - Naval Boarding action
04:47:54 - How did they make ships waterproof?
04:50:41 - Did the British send any ships to reinforce Pearl Harbor immediately after the attack? If not how long did it take before significant British naval power deployed to work with the Americans?
04:53:15 - The late 19th and early 20th centuries saw massive technological advancements in regards to naval warfare. Could you give an example of a new technology from that period that seemed like a good idea on paper but turned out to be underwhelming in practice?
04:58:58 - How different were the Manila Galleons from their contemporaries? Did their difference in size, location of construction, or building materials lead to interesting engineering problems or important developments in naval architecture?
05:03:01 - No-casualty commerce raiders?
05:04:40 - After the battle of the Denmark Strait Bismarck could be argued to already have been mission killied due to beeing hit in the fuel bunkers.
Did the commanding officers at the time see it that way and if yes, why didn't they break off the mission and sail back to Norway instead of trying to reach a french harbour?
05:08:08 - What technologies drove improvements between the small water tube boiler & turbine designs of the end of WW1/early 20's and the 40's high pressure machinery?
05:10:39 - French pre-dreadnought era cruisers?
05:15:20 - Head into the waves or away from them in a storm?
05:20:58 - With improvements in technology and release of official records over time, what naval mysteries, unknowns, or incomplete histories do you think might be explained in the next decades?
05:25:53 - Recalling that East Indiaman's would paint their hulls with fake gun ports to deter would be attackers. Would it make sense to build decoy warships from 1875 to 1915?
05:30:12 - Is there a plausible scenario where Germany can build her High Seas fleet without alienating the British?
05:36:33 - Was there anyone in Napoleon's Navy; even if they had died a few years before Trafalgar or were promoted to a high command rank a few years after Trafalgar, who you think could have been a real challenge for Admiral Nelson?
05:42:53 - Charges for AP and HE shells on the Iowa's?
05:46:31 - Why no crash-course fleet oiler program?
05:51:28 - Early torpedo development sources?
05:54:27 - What exactly was wrong with Japanese ASW efforts?
06:00:47 - Side-launching Avengers?
06:04:12 - What were Fisher's thoughts on the loss of the 3 battlecruisers at Jutland, the outcome of said battle, etc?
06:07:02 - During the time where the USS Enterprise was the only battle ready US aircraft carrier in the Pacific, how accurate was the phrase "Enterprise vs Japan"?
06:11:03 - High pressure boilers in Hiyo and Junyo?
06:16:20 - Would Bismarck stand a 50:50 of better chance against Rodney if she had her steering back?
06:21:12 - 2 gun vs twin gun turrets?
06:26:14 - Strategically, was it wise for the United States to mount the Guadalcanal invasion?
06:28:31 - WW2 amphibious operations improvements?
06:31:57 - Was Japan aware of the issues with the Mk14 torpedp?
06:33:50 - When do you fire the guns in an age of sail passing engagemant?
06:37:08 - How was USS Laffey (DD 742) able to survive multiple Kamikaze and bombs hits?
06:39:15 - Channel Admin / America Trip Schedule
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03:02:46 - Over-penetration of shells in battle?
03:04:56 - Wood planking on dreadnoughts sides
03:07:49 - How effective was the U.S. Civil Air Patrol both to morale and combat effectivenes?
03:08:37 - Palliser conversion method for old guns
03:15:11 - Italian jet boats
03:17:44 - Why so many changing camo patterns in WW2?
03:20:38 - How did the four-stacker destroyers compare to their contemporaries?
03:23:14 - What did the Allies do when Engima wasn't broken?
03:26:38 - Intel and engineering contributions to the pre-WW1 naval arms race?
03:32:32 - Remote control torpedo bomber?
03:36:45 - Short notice harbour defence?
03:39:13 - Why did the Germans get the drop on the British at the Battle of Sept-Îles?
03:41:51 - How else could the Scharnhorsts be rearmed?
03:46:46 - In the Age of Sail, how did ships have a flame to light match cord, lanterns, and ovens? Did ships have a special perpetual flame lantern or did they just break out the flint and steel.
03:49:19 - Why was the USN the only nation to stick triple turrets on their treaty and ww2 heavy cruisers? Every other nation except japan seems to use 4 twin turrets.
03:54:44 - Why did late 19th century warships still carry solid shot?
03:59:48 - At it's height during the late American Civil War, how did the Union Navy compare to the traditional European naval powers?
04:07:33 - Late war dive vs torpedo bomber casualties?
04:12:34 - USS Montana and other cursed battleship names
04:17:13 - What was the first warship vs warship fight?
04:22:12 - What was the practical value of calling ships like South Dakota "code names" such as "Battleship X"?
04:24:58 - Which ship or ships have the biggest gulf between how effective/well designed they were and how much you like them?
04:28:52 - Do you believe that the minor refit and addition of the 40mm bofors to the USS Enterprise before the battle of Santa Cruz had any real effect in the battle or were they less effective due to being new systems and the crew still getting used to using them over the original Quad 1.1 inch mounts?
04:36:59 - Why were the Ironclads, well, Ironclads instead of Steelclads?
04:42:10 - Differences in US commanders at Guadalcanal?
04:47:13 - No IJN sailors picked up at Midway?
04:50:23 - Destroyer, Destroyer Escort, Frigate, Corvette, Sloop. Why were there so many different designations for WWII escort ships? What were the practical differences between ships of the different types and the roles they played?
04:54:01 - When is a battle not a battle?
04:56:32 - Depth charge shortages?
05:00:32 - Did navigational aids such as range markers and light houses remain active during the two world wars?
05:02:44 - Neutrality stripes in the late 1930's?
05:05:08 - Last Japanese carrier planned?
05:08:32 - What couldn't Japan build for itself in WW2?
05:10:51 - Were 'the guns of Malta' much of a threat?
05:12:35 - Tudor era 'great ships'?
05:18:17 - Fake debris from U-Boats?
05:21:20 - Would HMS Tiger would have made a better and cheaper "Alaska" than the Alaska?
05:25:41 - B5N's with converted AP shells at Santa Cruz?
05:27:37 - Are there any specific individuals in the various government or private design bureaus that stood out for their skill, influence, etc?
05:29:51 - Although the treaty system was obsolete by the time she was laid down, did HMS Vanguard technically comply with the escalator clause limit of the Second London Naval Treaty?
05:30:37 - What's the deal with the stories of sailors having to chip away paint from brand new ships because the paint was a firehazard. Why was the paint applied in the first place if its dangerous?
05:32:45 - In the Age of sail what were Iron canon treated with to preserve them? Were they blued, blacked, or just oiled daily or something else entirely?
05:34:42 - Common seaman and banking prize money
05:39:23 - Why did US ships of the line look different?
05:42:57 - Dangers of sailing against or into the wind?
05:48:31 - With the Mark 14 hampering American submariner efforts in the pacific, were there many British submarines in the area getting much greater success in the early parts of the pacific war with their non faulty torpedoes?
05:51:00 - What were the fastest warships that were commissioned, by class; Destroyer, Cruiser, Battleship, Aircraft Carrier?
05:53:06 - Would you describe the army navy rivalry of Japan as a distinct phenomenon, above and beyond that in other countries, or is it more just a reflection on the particularly chaotic nature of the Japanese armed forces?
05:55:39 - What were the expansions to naval infrastructure for the USN from the Naval Act of 1916 and how much did they influence the USN ability to build up their fleet during the Second World War and in the pre war build up?
05:58:34 - Had displacement not been as restrictive in the interwar naval treaties, would the US navy continue to use and develop turbo-electric propulsion on large warships leading into World War II and beyond?
06:01:15 - How does the position of the sun affect long range naval gunnery, until the invent of radar based gunnery?
06:05:15 - Gyroscopes and fire control
06:10:49 - Were the admirals right that the US was over relying on the questionable B-36 for nuclear deterrence and that the Navy should have a role to play in it as well, or was it just a case of the Navy’s pride being injured due to ship cancellations, budget cuts and armed forces unification?
06:13:20 - Channel Admin
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03:00:45 - The Nemi ships and ancient construction
03:04:35 - Is Dazzle camouflage as applied to HMS Tamar still relevant given the advances in non-line of sight spotting of a target?
03:07:23 - No British 6" AP in WW2?
03:13:08 - A number of carrier conversions, for example Kaga, had funnels that directed smoke downward from the hull. What were the major disadvantages of this system and why was it adopted?
03:16:30 - Why do some digrams show armour 'the nearest 1/8th inch"
03:20:53 - What single radio communication, had it happened, could have made the biggest difference to Jutland?
03:27:36 - Ships that, in your opinion, would have been better off with fewer, bigger guns, or more, smaller guns?
03:30:48 - Whats the history behind the Brazilian River Monitor? How come a ship that was launched and entered service in the 1930's is still in active service?
03:33:46 - If you could have given HMS Rodney a full modernisation just before WW2 what would you have done?
03:38:26 - Were there any unorthodox tactics Somerville could have employed at Mers El-Kebir to deescalate the situation after it became clear to him that Gensoul was not acting in good faith?
03:44:34 - What, if anything did merchant ships bring back along the various convoy routes; primarily UK>US and the Arctic routes from the USSR?
03:47:23 - Usefulness of secondary batteries?
03:51:19 - Jeune Ecole but with submarines?
03:54:54 - Is there any realistic way the Germans could’ve actually starved out the British through submarine warfare in either world war as they planned? Or was it always just an unobtainable goal?
03:57:54 - When did towing ships boats stop being standard practice?
04:01:36 - What was it that made the 15" MK1 naval gun such a good design?
04:08:46 - Why did they put torpedo tubes on Battleships? Why did they keep putting them after WWI? And most importantly why underwater tubes on surface ships? Aren't they just weak points and liability as unnecessary openings in the hull below waterline?
04:14:33 - Could you explain the differences between fleets, flotillas, squadrons, task forces, task groups, etc.? And if the usage of these has changed throughout the years
04:21:26 - Changes in naval uniform in the 18th century
04:26:27 - Were there any notable examples of heroic or otherwise noteworthy service by NAAFI staff members on board Royal Navy vessels during WW2?
04:30:30 - TF14 attacks the IJN at Wake Island?
04:36:03 - Food in long battles?
04:38:42 - Rocket-propeller artillery on ships?
04:41:20 - Was HMS Repulse's dodging and weaving expected or outstanding?
04:45:03 - What exactly happened to USS South Dakota for it to lose all electrical power at Guadalcanal, and where there any lessons learned?
04:52:47 - How many 15"/42 guns were in service at any one time?
04:58:05 - Could a German battleship survive what sank Svent Istvan?
05:03:53 - Pre-Whithead torpedoes in Austria-Hungary?
05:06:26 - Renown's instead of Revenges?
05:15:18 - Are there any advantages to inefficiently large ships?
05:21:08 - Did the Japanese adherence to the code of Bushido cause them unnecessary losses in their command ranks in the form of experienced captains choosing to go down with sinking ships they could have otherwise have been saved from?
05:23:57 - 'Magnum' rounds for battleships?
05:29:57 - Illicit stills aboard ships
05:33:29 - Torpedo or cruise missile as the end of the battleship?
05:41:00 - Was anything the allied navies learned from post-war analysis of the Kriegsmarine incorporated into future designs?
05:44:03 - Ships surgeons position in a ship?
05:49:49 - Machine tools used in construction of naval ships and aircraft
05:51:47 - Spanish Armada: Anglo or Anglo-Dutch victory?
05:56:23 - Premature detonation of Long Lance torpedoes?
05:59:08 - Were there any examples in the Royal Navy or Kriegsmarine where poor damage control tactics or equipment led to the unnecessary loss of a ship?
06:03:18 - Channel Admin
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03:01:22 - Could the Danish Navy by 1864 be considered the 6th most powerfull in the world?
03:04:01 - Shore bombardment seems to be a relatively "boring" duty for warships during war, but did the crews manning these ships think it was boring? Were there differences in opinion between gunnery crews, other crews, and the command staff?
03:05:42 - What was the first warship to accommodate all it's crew in bunks instead of hammocks?
03:08:02 - WW2 sonar ping?
03:11:10 - What are your top 3 moments of "Haven't those muppets learned anything?" in ship design from 1918 on?
03:15:13 - In movies, there is often a scene in which a ship, submarine or in particular spaceship pushes the reactor, engines etc. above 100% - so 110% etc. Was this done and if so how often?
03:20:38 - If the USN had gone with the 14" gun for the Florida's like proposed how would that effect all follow on BBs up to the Colorado if at all?
03:24:33 - Was the decision by Admiral Pye to ultimately pull back from sending assistance to Wake Island by the carrier task force justified, in your opinion?
03:28:10 - Howl's Moving Castle battleships
03:32:57 - It is generally held that the WNT helped roadblock another very expensive arms race and possibly even a war in the 20s. What are some other examples of, the often justifiably, maligned politicians, getting something right? A program that they cut due to cost or for being overly aggressive.
03:38:11 - KGV's fitted 'for but not with' 15" guns?
03:43:02 - If you could take a camera on one trip with a time machine what event, person, or ship from naval history would you choose to photograph?
03:44:19 - How many ships could the UK build at once during WW2? How many slipways did the UK have that could build battleships/carriers, cruisers, destroyers and smaller ships? And how many larger (say about Liberty/Victory ship size) merchant ships did the UK build during the conflict?
03:49:47 - We all know how deadly Typhoon Cobra was to lightly-ballasted destroyers, but in how much peril were the capital ships?
03:55:11 - US Battleships beyond Montana?
03:58:46 - Fletcher decks and USS Iowa Turrent No.2 explosion
04:00:54 - Are there any other cases you know about where crews took the letter designations of a ship and twisted time for humorous reasons, dark humor or otherwise?
04:03:32 - How is the propellant in guns using bag charges discharged?
04:05:05 - Rats on Naval Vessels
04:08:23 - How exactly does a Reduit ship differ from a Barbette ship, Central Battery ship, or other type of pre-turreted (as in Fully Armored Barbette type we are familiar with now) in the ironclad era?
04:10:32 - Would did Plan X and Y look like before PLan Z?
04:12:29 - Submarine-carrying battleships?
04:14:44 - During the age of sail, were there tenders sent out by the RN Admiralty for cannon and shot. If not, how did procurement for these materials work exactly?
04:16:06 - Why did the British supply ships to anti-Spanish rebels in the early 19th century?
04:25:03 - Operation Downfall decoy fleet?
04:27:18 - Small WW1/2 navies showing up in unexpected locations?
04:29:26 - What were Italy's plans to respond to naval build up in the 1930's?
04:35:02 - Project HARP and naval uses?
04:37:31 - Would the Alaska's be better with 6x16" guns?
04:44:54 - What impact did the invention of the gatling gun have upon naval warfare design considerations if any? Were they used in any navies before being made obsolete by the invention of the machine gun?
04:46:42 - I've heard that the black hulls on coal powered ships such as Titanic and the Victorian peace time colours was to hide the mess from coal dust. Is this true? Were any other aesthetic standards originally for some functional purpose like that?
04:51:09 - Would the Dunderberg/Rochambeau have lasted longer in service if she'd been built with her original turrets?
04:55:17 - How does Nevada compare to the German WW1 and Interwar Capital Ships?
05:00:56 - How often was there more than one carrier docked at Pearl Harbor throughout 1941?
05:01:58 - Why does there appear to have been suction when Hood sank but not Titanic?
05:10:17 - For the Nelson Class why was B turret the super firing one?
05:12:51 - S.S. Great Eastern, If we took the same design with more modern steel (1910-1930's) how would she compare to vessels of that period? How was her design so robust?
05:20:31 - Boarding action in the Age of Sail
05:25:05 - What was the Royal Navy's transition from Imperial to Metric units like?
05:28:51 - What motors or similar devices are on tugboats to enable towing, and do warships used for towing their 'sisters' have the same types of equipment?
05:35:08 - In past Drydocks you've stated that the Royal Navy tried to develop a dual-purpose 5-inch gun akin to the US 5" 38, but that effort failed. What went wrong?
05:41:27 - Why did the US Marines become closer to the phrase the US Navy's army rather than other marine forces such as the British Royal Marines being closer to Special Forces ?
05:47:51 - What’s with the inclusion of underwater torpedo tubes on battleships designed/constructed immediately after WW1?
05:53:13 - Special ops against enemy ships in the age of sail?
05:58:43 - What, if any, equipment and procedures were there for rebalancing ammunition between the magazines on a ship in the age of dreadnaughts while she was at sea?
06:02:49 - How or what seems to be the deciding factor of if a ship is sunk or just damaged (so a decisive conclusion or not) where the engagement cannot be avoided especially in the Dreadnaught era and on?
06:08:41 - Channel Admin
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@WilliamJones-Halibut-vq1fs 1) No, the escalator clause for gun calibre wasn't invoked until 1937, a year after the Bismarck was laid down, and the escalator clause for displacement wasn't invoked until 1938, two years after Bismarck was laid down. Given Bismarck's design was finalised in 1935, two years before even the gun calibre clause was invoked, it's design was in complete violation of the naval agreements. 2) All-or-Nothing was invented in America, not the UK. 3) No 24 inch torpedoes were fired at Bismarck, the only torpedo close to that size which hit was the one from HMS Rodney. The Swordfish torpedoes were 18" and the destroyer and cruiser torpedoes were 21". 4) Bismarck's armour scheme was very badly designed for anything except taking a long time to sink, for protecting her as a combat-effective unit, it was awful. It also meant the ship was unique amongst dreadnoughts in that you could sink it without ever penetrating the citadel.
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02:03:03 - Battleship rate of fire?
02:10:02 - What were the biggest prisoner hauls that resulted from single naval engagements, say in the period of 1900-1950?
02:11:54 - Being such powerful ships, why were battleships phased out so quickly after WW2?
02:15:40 - Most useful French ships for the Allied cause?
02:20:34 - How lucky were the stern hits on battleships by torpedoes?
02:22:48 - Were any surviving Imperial Japanese warships retained and adopted into the nascent Japanese Maritime Defense Force?
02:24:50 - Why did the Allies think the Yamato's had 'only' 16-inch guns?
02:29:34 - HMS Rodney and sheep?
02:30:59 - Polar Exploration ships and their evolution?
02:34:45 - What was japanese naval warfare like during the sengoku jidai period?
02:36:29 - Why weren't British shell fuses picked up as an issue after Jellicoe was promoted?
02:41:37 - Dye packs in naval shells
02:45:39 - Tube on KGV superstructure?
02:46:53 - Special fuel on late-model U-Boats?
02:48:54 - 'One in a million' events in naval battles?
02:53:16 - Massive errors successfully resolved?
02:55:48 - Greyhound questions
02:58:40 - In your opinion who has the best naming convention for ships and why is the naming Convention for the Royal navy so different between classes?
03:06:50 - Battle of Cap Bon?
03:08:31 - Georgios Averoff tactics?
03:12:32 - Upgrading the Standards inter-war?
03:16:31 - Triple turret QE's?
03:17:59 - What strategies have best worked out for the underdog?
03:26:08 - How good (or how bad) were the German pre-dreadnoughts and armored cruisers, and how did they compare to their British counterparts?
03:39:44 - What do you consider the biggest side-effect of the Great Kantō earthquake in WW2, Amagi being replaced by the slower Kaga or the lessons the USN learned from the Honda Point Disaster?
03:42:06 - Are there noteworthy examples of improvised or ad-hoc armour fitted to warships?
03:43:38 - Much is made about how the triple screw design of Bismarck was a design flaw and was a significant factor in her loss because she was unavailable to maneuver. If Bismarck had four propellers and suffered the same damage with one rudder locked in a hard turn, do you think she could actually have gotten away?
03:46:52 - Do you think it would have been possible from a fuel and/or any other perspective to send one or two Unryu's out in conjunction with Yamato in operation Ten-Go? If so, if they were spaced far enough from Yamato, do you think Yamato would have gotten in range of the American invasion force given the American disposition to target the carriers and Unryu's potential to attract American strike aircraft?
03:51:29 - US fast fleet oiler dispositions?
03:54:01 - I-400 vs Surcouf with one do you think was better construction and had more potential to impact future of submarines designs?
03:56:15 - When an armor piercing shell strikes an enclosed space such as a conning tower or turret, even if it does not penetrate or spall splinters off of the interior it is going to make a very loud clang. Just how badly would the crew inside the space be affected by the noise?
04:01:31 - I saw the movie "Greyhound" recently and was surprised at how much voice communications over radio was used. Could you, in brief, describe when tactical use of voice communications between ships became the norm and if the portrayal in Greyhound was accurate?
04:04:57 - It seems that most navies settled on the same size torpedoes by WW2. Did all that happen by purely accident or was there more to it?
04:07:17 - Ocean Liners speed and evading subs
04:12:44 - Why did the Kriegsmarine struggle to build decent light cruisers?
04:15:49 - What decides whether to go with smaller, fast-turning screws or larger, slow-turning screws?
04:19:51 - Of the completed ships scrapped under the naval treaties, were there any that would have been useful to their respective nations in World War II had they instead been retained and modernised?
04:25:08 - To hit a ship a 20 000 yeards, you need to train you turret with a resolution (and more important repeatability) of better than 0.8°. How do you do this with a multi 100 ton structure that is subjeted to massive off centric recoil (e.g. if only the two left guns of a quad turret fires)?
04:28:06 - What's your favorite "Hold my beer" moment in Naval history?
04:29:52 - How do submarines find targets?
04:32:31 - How much less effective was the 11 inch Dahlgren with its standard charges at Hampton Roads than with its later increased? How much did this increase the guns armor penetration by?
04:36:53 - Channel Admin / US Trip Meet and Greet
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First, thanks for taking the time to write out so much detail.
With regards to the damage Seydlitz suffered at Jutland, the source for Seydlitz's condition after fighting 5th BS comes from the Royal Navy Museum, Portsmouth, and a lecture conducted there a couple of years ago by a panel of naval historians that I was able to attend and also from Tarrant's book on the German perspective of Jutland. By 2100 she'd had two hours to pump out water since the withdrawal from the BCF/5th BS fight, whereas her own crew attest that of the remaining unbreached sections of the ship, a hit that opened any single one would've doomed them c.1900-1930. It's condition was somewhat recovered by later in the battle due to damage control efforts.
With regards to the Seydlitz sinking, it was brought back into port only with the assistance of other ships aiding in the pumping out. Once those ships left it settled in harbour, as it had been unable to keep up with the flooding on its own for quite a while. Thus it 'sank', albeit in a perfectly recoverable position.
With regards to the damage sustained at Dogger Bank, Seydlitz did have anti-flash doors prior to the battle, but they were designed and added to in the aftermath. The video doesn't contradict Campbell's account and indeed is based on it.
With regards to the BCF safeties being removed and their relevance to the loss of the ships, there was a full report made after Jutland apart from the train of correspondence you indicated, and that report goes into fair detail about the reasons for losses and the procedures that needed to be taken. Every formal report the RN made in regards to the matter is fairly consistent on this subject and as a weight of evidence is fairly convincing.
Lion survived the battle, which in itself is a vindication of it's superior safety procedures, as no safety system is 100% proof against damage, but exist to mitigate the effects to a point where ultimate disaster can be averted. Additionally, the safety systems took the brunt of the original hit (similar to that which killed the other lost BC's) and preserved the ship in that circumstance, which vindicates the procedures when followed correctly. The later fire flare-up was an example of other procedures (surrounding the forward storage of ammo) not being followed correctly.
As regards the concentration on Queen Mary, it was not the arrival of 5th BS that enabled this, I was simply noting that the concentration of fire occurred at around the time 5th BS arrived.
As for whether the German BC's count as fast battleships, as you say, difference of opinion there.
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The biggest issues on the Nelson class guns were associated with the roller mounts, which had been built less massively and with lighter (and weaker) materials compared with the G3 spec. That's not to say there would not have been teething troubles, but I don't think they would have been as pronounced as they were on the Nelsons.
With range, I tend to head towards the RN's way of thinking. Yes the IJN and USN practiced in peace-time for longer range engagements, but practically speaking in WW2 most engagements happened in the low 20k's of yards and down when they resulted in hits. Even relatively ideal training conditions with radar FCS an Iowa in late WW2 could only managed less than 3% accuracy at 30k yards against a target it's own size that was broadside on. Whereas at 20k yards it's just over 10%. In battle, hit rates would be even lower, but even by those results you're talking maybe one hit every 4-5 salvoes vs 1 hit per salvo.
From the reports I've read on the Bismarck there were no findings of 16" shells not penetrating the belt, there are some 14" bounces from the turret/barbette area but all recorded 16" hits did considerable damage. Additionally, Bismarck was disabled at considerably longer range, the Rodney closed in to finish the ship at ~3k yards only after the main battery had been disabled. The primary issue was not the lack of the 16" effectiveness, but rather that the hits primarily came in at a shallow angle due to their speed, so most of the damage occurred above the waterline, which is very good for crippling a ship but not so good for sinking it.
Note that even in a peacetime exercise the USS Iowa was unable to sink the USS Nevada by gunfire.
It would appear that by WW2 most capital ships required either a magazine explosion or torpedoes to send them to the bottom. Note that every battleship sunk purely by gunfire in WW2 was a WW1 vintage ship, usually with relatively minimal armour by even late WW1 standards. :)
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There's an awful lot of detail that would cover an in-depth response, but whilst the UK did take part in the slave trade on a large scale, the impression that the British were main drivers is more pop culture than fact.
The industrial slave trade across the Atlantic was in fact started by Spain when their death-camp-like treatment of the locals meant they started running out of them.
Drake and Hawkins turned against Spain when the Spanish tried to keep them out of that trade by force.
As the British became dominant at sea and started setting up plantations they got in on the slave trade, but the Dutch, French, Danes, Spanish and Portuguese all were setting up their own colonies and shipping in slaves. Portuguese slavers actually outnumbered the British.
Beyond that, you also have to look at flags of convenience. By flag of ship the British accounted for 35-40% of the slave trade at its height, but come 1807 many of those simply switched flag.
That is not to say Britain didn't make a lot of money from the slave trade, it certainly did, and it took a big part in it as well. But the Atlantic slave trade was not setup by, not dominated by, the British, in the way pop-culture would have you believe.
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@GrouchierBear on the larger frigates there was proportionally more space, and the crew would be almost entirely or entirely volunteers, which the USN could afford with a smaller navy.
However, when it comes to overall conditions and gunnery training, it's variable based on the Captain. Of course, with a smaller navy the US could be much more picky about its Captains but a good RN Captain would drill just as much or more, and ensure accommodations were just as good. However, with a much larger navy there was also scope for a far larger range of quality.
Couple that with a lot of the best ships being stationed on French blockade duty, the average RN ship off the US coast was likely not as efficient as the average US ship, but there were some vessels like Endymion and Shannon that were really good.
Arguably Java was also pretty well handled, albeit her gunners seemed to be a little less accurate than Constitutions, but with the size and firepower advantage the US ship had, even entirely equal crews would still have heavily favoured the US ship.
You could think of it like a fight between HMS Renown and USS Washington, both ships are at the peak of their game, but materially the US ship is superior, which makes the British ship winning an uphill struggle. And then factor for not every British ship is as well crewed as Renown.
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Hello, and thanks for the extensive post, please allow me to respond. :)
1) I used British since, although the Act of Union was some ways off, the King was in charge of England and Scotland, with Scottish men and officers in his service, so the realm was effectively 'British' at that point.
2) The abbreviation HMS was used later, but in the period of the Medway Raid ships were already referred to as "His Majesties Ship" in full, the abbreviation is just helpful in shortening references.
3) I did mention the deliberate sinking of many RN warships to prevent their capture.
4) I specifically mentioned the losses of other major RN ships at the Four Days Battle etc in the early part of the video. I also noted that the losses and the remaining small force of large ships was a major problem and tipped the war in favour of the Dutch.
5) Line ahead had been used by ships going back to 1500 in places, however, use of the tactic was sporadic and actual effective use of the tactic along with ships designed to exploit it's advantages was still a new and untested thing by the time of the 2nd Anglo-Dutch War.
6) I specifically noted that after the disaster of disorganised and fractious command in the Dutch forces was recognised, they were quick to get their act together and act much more effectively.
7) Whilst there was heroic defence in places, including some rushed crews, the simple fact is that many ships were 'in ordinary' and uncrewed, or practically so.
8) Indeed bit out of the detailed scope of the video :)
9) The Dutch reaction to the loss of the merchant fleet, it's cargo and warehouses was significant, it collapsed the Dutch stock market and caused riots, whilst the Dutch had many ships, the fleet lost represented a significant number of the larger ocean going merchant's as opposed to the much more numerous coastal traders that made up the majority of the Dutch trade fleet. I don't think this raid can be dismissed as a medium scale event, not least because the Dutch themselves at the highest levels considered it a very heavy blow.
10) The idea of the channel isn't to give every single detail of every single aspect of the subject being covered, otherwise each video would be twenty hours long or more. The idea is to give a relatively detailed overview which informs those who would like simply to know roughly what happened, and to inspire others to look in more detail at the finer points of the history surrounding the event. :)
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I understand that obviously differences in opinion will arise and this action is one of the most controversial of the war. Hence why I tried to ensure that when I was expressing my opinion, I was clear that is was my subjective opinion, with the facts stated separately.
That said, what it comes down to for me is less the 'strategic' side of things, who was justified in what, who was overly aggressive, what was and wasn't a surprise etc. Because there are so many arguments back and forth there that many arguments can be advanced that all have facts to back them up but arrive at different conclusions.
Instead, I prefer to look at the practical 'tactical' side of how things could have gone differently once the situation was at hand. At the end of the day, politicians can create all sorts of situations but someone on the frontline has ultimately to pull the trigger or not.
From that perspective, the rights or wrongs of the grander situation are less important than the fact the situation is happening regardless. (And as I believe I said, in hindsight the attack was a mistake, but also justified given what they knew at the time).
For example, when the IJN showed up at Pearl Harbour, the practical man grabs a gun and shoots back, not stands there yelling at the Vals, Kate's and Zeros that they haven't formally declared war yet.
Likewise when Hood was hit, the fact it was a one in a million shot doesn't mean they get a rerun and ignore the result, they still have to deal with the fact the magazines detonated. Etc etc
Thus, in my analysis, whatever rights and wrongs of the politics, Gensoul had a situation to deal with, he had a duty to preserve his fleet and his men to the benefit of his country, or if they had to fight and die, to ensure they could acquit themselves well. He had chances for either option and screwed up both. In the end, his actions did not serve France, the Marine Nationale or his officers and men well at all.
Whilst it's true Somerville could also have changed the way it went, he mostly took advantage of the opportunities presented to try and resolve matters peacefully and most other options had real operational constraints on them, whereas Gensoul seemed to invent restrictions out of thin air and almost deliberately make things more difficult, thus not really running up against any operational barriers.
Hence, I focus most of my ire on him as the one person who could've done the most to change the outcome relative to what happened.
I hope that helps clarify my position somewhat. :)
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Most of it was available from just after WW2 when the results of the salvage and the ships crews interviews and reports became known. But as with a lot of things from this period the most flashy bits about the fight get emphasized at the expense of the detail. For example, many accounts of the battle will mention that the ship was low on ammo, or make a deal about the large amount of superficial damage (eg to the secondary and anti-aircraft battery). But since the overall loss of speed and the destruction of the fuel processing equipment don't tie into the outcome of the battle itself, they get ignored by basic and pop-history. (The Graf Spee would have had to have fought through the night and into the next day for the fuel situation to become critical and the ships guns and armour meant the relative loss of speed was somewhat irrelevant as long as the British chose to fight, save for perhaps making it easier to aim torpedoes).
It's also a case of death by a thousand cuts, no one issue save for running out of ammo would've made it impossible to get home, even if the fuel system was wrecked if the engines were still working and there wasn't a hole in the bow they probably could've made a run for a friendlier port, etc. So unless you go into the fine details of the battle these smaller issues don't really get talked about.
As for internment, the primary issue was that the government was friendly to the British, getting interned in Montivideo would've basically meant the British could have had agents aboard within hours of the crew being escorted off. Hence why they were thinking about making a run for Germany-friendly Argentina, which would not have let that happen, but Langsdorff evidently did not think the ship would survive a fight with Renown, which the Graf Spee could not have shaken or fought off even in new condition.
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@WilliamJones-Halibut-vq1fs You've just done the same mistake I pointed out earlier to others, you're reading off figures for the 15" gun using WW1 era shells and charges. (32.5k yards at just over 30 degrees with WW2 shells, 36.5k yards if also using super-charges).
Moreover, as I also pointed out, ranges of 30k+ yards are largely irrelevant figures since nobody could actually hit anything at those ranges (even the Iowa's 16"/50 guns in peacetime conditions against a broadside target using radar and late-war FCS could only manage 2.7% hit rates, with the expectation that this would be substantially less in wartime).
Scharnhorst did not receive the Fumo 26 radar until about 2 years after the action against Renown, and when it did the antenna fitted was substantially smaller than the one on Tirpitz so is not relevant to that particular action, and by the time it was fitted,
As per the above, even late and post-war in practice conditions it did not prove possible to accurately hit at ranges much beyond the low-20k's of yards. In theory an ultra-long-range hit would be mathematically possible, but nobody was ever able to actually do so, again, even in peacetime exercise conditions.
There is a major factor in long range fire calculations that many seem to miss. At ranges of around 35k yards, the shell flight time is about a minute, during that time a fast ship like a Renown or a Scharnhorst can move about a kilometer in a wide arc. Anyone finding themselves under such long range fire and worried about being hit would be able to simply do what HMS Rodney did in the early part of the exchange with Bismarck, change course slightly every time a salvo is fired by the enemy. Even if your fire solution was 100% accurate at the time of firing, you still wouldn't hit anything because the target ship would have moved a significant distance in a direction different to that which it was heading in when you fired.
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@VersusARCH the reason I ruled out some others was as follows, the Russo-Japanese War was a systemic failure, the Admiral most proximate to the disaster did his best with an impossible mission and managed to get at least some of his ships into a position that they could fight effectively. He failed to fulfilling his mission but short of refusing few others would have done better. The Armada again as constrained by strategic issues, Medina Sidonia didn't want to be in command but was overruled, but still did a decent job of keeping his fleet together and intact until the fireship attack and the intervention of the weather. Again, he led the fleet to disaster but there are not that many other ways he could've done it given the circumstances. Parma being unready was not something he could change.
Sluys was in part the result of definite operational failings by the French commanders, but on the mitigating side they were using tactics suitable for one sort of medieval bmsea battle, but not the one they encountered, thus their failure is less egregious than others.
Chesma is in some ways like the Nile, the Ottomans set up as ostensibly decent defence, but were undone by an unusual number of ships catching fire and this spreading.
In Sluys and Chesma, although the consequences were grave, I'd argue the Admirals chose incorrect tactics as opposed to flat out wrong tactics. By comparison, the Admirals I chose went with tactics that would not have worked in any conceivable engagement or circumstance.
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@Ozgur72 I took account of the defences, but I also took account of the potential use of assets not historically used but available, like the minesweeping fitted destroyers, which would've been far more capable of dealing with the mines, as well as the fact that you don't have to destroy forts and guns to pass the Straits, at minimum you can suppress them temporarily, which did happen, plus of course the best way to deal with them is landing parties as they'd done earlier. Essentially, they tools to effect a successful passage were available, but for various reasons most of them either weren't used at all or were poorly handled.
I mentioned the opinions of officers at the time for context as to what they thought, not that they were precisely correct in their evaluation given the situation at hand and the resources that had been brought up on the actual day in history.
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1) He claimed he couldn't turn back because the wind was against him, at the time he got off the sandbar he had a clearly marked pilot boat channel which (up to that point) had guided him true. Thus, he had a clear route back and more to the point, the wind recorded by multiple ships not far from him was coming from an entirely different direction. Additionally, if he wanted a speedy escape, but the wind was as he claimed, he sailed in entirely the wrong direction. But he did sail in the right direction to maximise speed if the wind direction was as recorded aboard Tenedos, Pomone, Endymion and Majestic.
2) The key factor is that in the subsequent chase both in high and light winds, President showed decent ship handling and a remarkable turn of speed, neither of these is likely to be possible with significant underwater damage below, especially the kind that creates drag.
3) The big problem with Decatur's accounts is that his own accounts disagree with themselves quite dramatically depending on which one you read, whereas most of the independent accounts from the ship all broadly agree. So if half a dozen officers from separate parts of the ship all recall roughly the same thing, and one guy writes half a dozen conflicting versions of the event, what is a reasonable conclusion?
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@ThatZenoGuy near misses have caused similar damage (Bismark for example knocked out Rodney's AA fire control director, Scharnhorst crippled most.of Sheffields powerplant) to other ships, but they are never credited as hits. Some sources, including a number written nearer the time, note that IJN cruisers, which were significantly closer, were also firing six gun salvos and some of those were also firing on the US ships at the time. As a result, they credit the cruisers with the near-miss.
Thus, for me to come down to two things:
1) A damaging near miss has never been counted as a hit in any other naval engagement, so why would an exception be made here? (Iowa got a bunch of near misses on a small IJN ship at long range, but these are not credited as hits, rather as misses)
2) From the various sources I've seen, the idea that this particular shell came from Yamato is plausible but by no means the academic consensus at the moment. Of course, that may change.
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@535phobos with water depth it's very dependant on precise depth conditions. There are known areas where hydrodynamic effects make ships of certain drafts and displacement faster by a knot or two, min the early years of destroyer construction Thornycroft and Yarrow were notorious for testing their ships in one or two particular areas that gave them an artificial leg up. Of course those areas wouldn't help a battlecruiser, due to their different dimensions and displacement, but there were known 'sweet spot' areas where many of them were run that give an artificially high result.
It's cumulative, so if you ship is designed for 25knots, better powerplant performance might give you 0.5-.75knots, an elite crew might buy 0.5knots, good coal might buy 0.5-0.75 knots over average, light loading might but around 1 knot and the right depth of water might but 0.5-1knot.
Put together, and your 25knot ship is suddenly making 28.5knots.
But go into wartime and the only thing you'll have from that is your good powerplant and suddenly you can maybe hit 26knots at a push.
With Goeben, she was designed for 0.5knots more than her pursuers, and with a partial engine clean vs the chasing ships somewhat less clean systems her pulling ahead is fairly predictable, but the flip side is her contemporary was Lion, and Lion would've run her down.
Coal quality also helped, albeit that in the first few hours good as bad coal would give maybe 1-1.5knots difference from standard, where it really hurt was the amount of smoke bad coal made and how quickly it clogged the boilers. For example at Jutland by the time the night actions began bad coal meant some German destroyers were down to pre-dreadnought speeds thanks to choked boilers and grates that needed cleaning.
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There is just so much wrong here...
The Dutch had barely any large ships use to the shallow nature of their coastal waters, the fact the British had heavy ships and the Dutch didn't was a significant factor in the early Anglo-Dutch Wars.
The 80-gun Two Decker's of Spain and France were less agile than the British ships but generally faster due to having a greater length to beam ratio.
The razees came about largely to disposed of 64's no longer useful in the line of battle, the main ship of the line for the RN in the Napoleonic era was the 74.
Victory was noted by all sides as an especially faster sailer for a first rate ship of the line. British ship construction was on par with French and Spanish, the difference was the British built squatter more agile ships suited to long operations at sea. Many French and Spanish ships were faster due to greater length but could not operate at sea for as long before needed refits and repairs. Captured ships were favoured by British captain's for their speed, but had to be sent back to port much earlier when on blockade duty.
If you look at 1690-1800 the Royal Navy built 12 three deck 1st rates, the French built 16, the Spanish built at least 11.
At Trafalgar the British had 7 three Decker's to the Franco-Spanish 4, but all four of those were first rates, only three British ships were, the other four were second rates, and the British having more three Decker's was unusual at Trafalgar compared to the usual Napoleonic era fleet battle.
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With regards to the Two South Dakota vs the Two Bismarck's, South Dakota electrical faults were a one-off systems failure that isn't representative of the ship or the class in WW2 normal operational circumstances. If the question was what if Bismarck replaced Kirishima then this would factor in but in a generic match-up it doesn't.
With regards to fire control, you can't hide the sensors from enemy fire, this is true, however, the cables that connect the sensors ultimately to the turrets can be protected, and on British and American ships they were. On the Bismarck, whilst the feed from the secondary stations had such cable connection protection, the primary fire control station had no such protection which makes that feed vastly more vulnerable to shrapnel and blast damage, which is part of why Bismarck's ability to fire back was crippled so quickly despite primary fire control not taking a direct hit.
With that taken in account, you have the South Dakota with an extra gun each, and 16" shells vs 15" shells (with the German shells having a fairly high dud rate).
You also then have the American ships with better protected fire control, and better radar directed fire control systems in the first place (the fire control tech and radar fitted to the American ships is superior to that on the Bismarck's even before we get to the German tendency to knock out their own radar with their gun blast) as well as an armour scheme that will protect the ship better at the typical medium ranges the engagement is likely to take place in.
Therefore, the South Dakotas are likely to hit first, hit harder, take hits better in terms of overall durability and fire control survivability. Hence they should have a definite advantage.
Hope that clears things up a bit.
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@thibaudduhamel2581 Hello, thankyou for your extensive response, I would like to address the points you raised here:
1) Admiral d'Argenlieu only managed to reach de Gaulle 3-4 days before the attack took place, after the planning for the Operations was already complete. He was also at this point still of inferior rank to Gensoul, only attaining Admiral rank a year after the attack. As such, it's unlikely the British even knew who he was or that he was around at the time. Additionally, whilst Captain Holland was a British Captain, this afforded him certain courtesies and protections that a French officer would not have received, Gensoul could simply have arrested any Free French officer as a traitor.
2) With regards to Gensouls actions, he cannot reasonably have thought himself safe except temporarily, he was fully aware of what the armistice terms said and he also said he was determined to maintain them. As I covered, these meant that most of the French fleet would have to sail into German custody, supposedly to be disarmed. If he truly meant to obey the armistice then he would lose his ships anyway. If he did not intend to obey it, then he cannot have been honest in saying he would, nor in refusing the British options because of consequences to France, since if he intended to disobey and preserve his ships then those consequences would come anyway.
3) All of the French ships present had the range and were in a fit state to make an Atlantic crossing, they had minor refit and repair needs due to wartime operation, but all were seaworthy.
4) I do not believe Gensoul took the most reasonable option, hence my opinion of him. He knew his choice would lead directly to being attacked, he'd been told that repeatedly. He made multiple choices that ended with "or be fired upon", I can't see willingly taking that last option as reasonable.
5) I did not accuse Darlan of lying or being unreliable, except when he tried to deceive the British with a false copy of the treaty. In fact I noted that his intention to preserve the fleet appears to have been genuine. What I explained was why the British government of the time THOUGHT he was lying and unreliable.
6) With regards to Vichy France and potential alternate timelines, given the Vichy government collaborated to the point of handing over Frances Jewish population I doubt they were especially radicalised by the incident, it maybe gave them an excuse, but the Petain government was already on the record as strongly anti-British from it's earliest days. As such, a larger French fleet in North Africa (assuming the Germans allowed it) would just have meant more fighting when Torch arrived.
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Hi, thanks for the comment. The main thing from my perspective is the role that the ship was designed for. the Invincible's were designed to replace the armoured cruiser, like the Dreadnought replaced pre-Dreadnoughts, the armoured cruisers mission was to kill enemy cruisers and in larger navies they had no place in the battleline, but some role in the fleet screen.
That's the role the Invincible's were built for, which is similar to the Alaska's. The 'battle-line' role for the Invincibles was retroactively placed on them, but later ships were designed with the idea of taking on their own kind and some battle-line role, these I would argue are the true 'battlecruisers', with the term retro-fitted to the Invicibles for expedience.
The comparison between heavy cruisers and armoured cruisers was not meant to imply one led to the other, but rather that the protected/armoured cruiser pairing mirrored the light/heavy cruiser pairing in roles in the two world wars. Hence the Invicibles growing out of the AC's is similar to the Alaska's growing out of CA's.
Basically it's an argument that the Alaska's role is similar to the role the Invincibles were designed and initially named to do, as opposed to the role and designation they were later retro-fitted to. Hope that makes sense.
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@saschawagner5167 the albacores were certainly capable, the Victorious' attack on Bismarck was already done in low light/night conditions. In the worst case scenario for the IJN they already have a bearing to search down due to the first two carriers calling for help.
As for radar vs night training, the RN practice of the period accounted for both not all ships having radar and enemy training.
The tactic was that the ship or ships with radar, eg Warspite, would lead, closing in with all ships training on the relayed target positions until the first signs of being spotted were detected, at which point everyone would light off their searchlights (also dazzling enemy crew), make final corrections to range and open fire. It gives the RN several minutes of surprise before the the enemy can physically respond, and with a relatively close range and being unmolested in that time, they can rapidly start scoring hits.
As far as the ships being together, the R's were apart because they couldn't make themselves ready in time to sail with Force A, since the Two most extreme plausible scenarios are best/worst cases, it was assumed that these issues were either not encountered or overcome and they sailed with the rest of the fleet, although to be honest even Warspite and it's escorts could put down the IJN's CarDiv 2 whilst everyone else caught up.
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Basically the accounts show that all the American frigates got shot through in their engagements, at point blank an 18lb broadside will go through a wooden side unless there's also a frame and the planking is ship of the line grade.
But where better wood and heavier construction make the difference are at angles and range. Opening broadsides could be effective enough to decide a fight, and something like Constitution could resist longer range fire, angled fire and the lighter upper deck guns much better than the average frigate.
In turn, thus means fewer casualties and guns knocked out before the range closes to point blank, which in turn means the American salvo at that range is likely to be nearly full strength, whilst the opponents, even weight of guns aside, will have fewer operational weapons at the point where it's almost impossible to miss.
Finally, as double shorted broadsides often opened engagements but were lower velocity than single shot salvos, the combination of lower mv, longer range and stronger sides would resist this fire especially well.
A shot can bury itself into wood up to around half it's diameter and still fall out once it's lost energy, which from inside will still look like a 'bounce'.
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@stephenduffy5406 oh I agree, however as I said previously by that point he was in full damage control mode (bear in mind he spent some time as a prisoner, then more time being raked over the coals by the media of the time before the court martial, by which point the ship was conveniently in enemy hands).
You can trace the shift in tone and version of what happened between the actual event and the court martial. During and immediately after the battle, up until roughly when the Presidents crew are landed in Bermuda, you have a version that everyone who was there agrees on.
From there, Decatur starts to write accounts that differ from the ones he wrote first, which start to play up the issues he had, and eventually start to invent new ones.
As time goes on, and the American press are roasting him for losing the President, he becomes more and more defensive and more and more issues start to appear in his accounts.
By the time of the court martial his accounts are entirely at odds with what he is recorded as saying and what all accounts agree he actually did as recorded during and immediately after the battle.
The RN examinations of the ship at Bermuda and when breaking it up also show that significant portions of what he said at the court martial were flat out lies.
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@MrArtbv There are a number of issues with the 'pedal to the metal' approach. Firstly, assuming the ships reverse course, at full speed with the amount of fuel they have left they're going to be coming in with barely any fuel in the tank, and this assumes optimal course without having to make evasive actions to avoid other ships like KGV and Victorious or air strikes.
Additionally, running at speed at night is a huge risk that they are extremely unlikely to take, race home or not, there is no benefit to opening yourself up to a situation where you may well have a flotilla of destroyers come onto radar at about the same time as they are ready to drop torpedoes onto you, which is throwing away your ship for no reason. Running at flank during the day assuming good visibility is certainly possible, but not at night, it's just bad tactics and Lindemann is not going to throw his ship away like that.
My point about night recon of Scapa (or the surrounding area) is that by the time Luftwaffe recon is even possible, any RN force that left overnight is going to be somewhere within about a 60,000 square mile area depending on the various possible courses. And every hour that search goes on adds 7-8k square miles to that. You need a lot of aircraft and to get lucky and to not have any intercepted or go down with mechanical issues. Possible, but no way guaranteed.
As I mentioned in the answer, there is still a reasonable chance Bismarck makes it back intact, hence why I rounded out with it being joined up with Tirpitz, Scharnhorst etc, but there are a number of major obstacles it had to overcome to do so, most of which are flying the White Ensign.
Both sides have chances to roll double 6 or double 1, but the RN has more dice to roll in this scenario.
The big problem the IJN has in a no-Greece scenario is that they're running out of resources like oil and they're also running out of time in terms of force balance. They have to either give up on China or go to war with everyone in the area at some point in late '41 or early '42 or they're stuffed.
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@Caratacus1 The gun crews were designed to account for casualties reducing numbers and other factors such as rough weather or fatigue. You can fight a gun pretty effectively with around half a dozen people, but you will wear them out a lot faster and casualties in a fight will drop those number below operational levels pretty quickly. Accounts from the period show it could be done for a short period with high effectiveness, for example at Cape St Vincent the RN line was able to deliver rapid broadsides against both the weather and lee formations of the Spanish ships. On the other hand it also meant you were being fired on by two or more ships. Thus, whether or not placing yourself in a position to have to fight both sides of the ship or not was situational. In a drawn out fight like the Nile, it would be a disaster, and more generally is was bad because you were being shot at by twice the guns, but in a short sharp engagement where you would gain a tactical advantage as a result, such as at Cape St Vincent it was a risky, but valid, strategy. Also, when you significantly outmatched your enemies, this could be effective.
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Because Phillips had orders to try and attack the Japanese invasion, which he tried to do with the forces on hand. It went dramatically wrong, partially due to Phillips mistakes, partly due to technological malfunctions, partly due to strategic errors in sending Force Z in the first place, and partially due to nobody guessing just how capable the Japanese aircraft were.
Conversely, Halsey had a job, to guard the Leyte invasion, fell for a decoy and only avoided failing his orders by sheer luck and the stubbornness of Taffy 3. And then, he managed to lead his fleet into typhoons unnecessarily not once, but twice, in each case causing damage and losses that could've been easily avoided.
The question wasn't who was in charge for the worst disasters, but who was the worst Admiral. An Admiral can command an utter disaster for their fleet and not be a bad Admiral if other factors simply overwhelm them, and at the same time you can be on the winning side and still be a bad Admiral when you make major unforced errors that get people killed.
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I personally feel that going overboard in criticism weakens arguments in two way, firstly, it means parts of your criticism can be proven factually wrong and that calls into question the rest. Secondly, it dilutes the times genuine criticism is warranted. The RN has plenty of outright failures, HMS Captain, the Courageous class as gun-vessels, Beatty, keeping far too many old ships around in the late 19th century, the Indefatigable class, most of the 5.25" guns career, the FAA being absorbed into the RAF for most of the inter-war period, etc, etc. And those should be brought up and rightly examined.
But then going and trying to pretend that all British BC's and fragile tinderboxes, that all British carrier aircraft were unadulterated rubbish, that the pom-pom or HACS was a complete failure etc is not only factually incorrect, it falls into the same problem as talking down your enemy. IE, "If the British were that bad, how on earth did they win?"
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It sounds like you are thinking of Typhoon Cobra, which affected mainly light carriers, the typhoon I was referring to was a later one when the British Pacific Fleet was present, that one did damage a number of US fleet carriers, see the link for what happened to USS Hornet (Essex class) (https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/zIRHvyb.jpg).
Whilst US aircraft could carry a heavy bomb payload (much higher than average for carrier aircraft), they typically did not use this entire payload, usually taking a single 1,000lb bomb or sometimes more 500lb bombs (see Midway, where most of the hits on the IJN carriers were 500lb bombs). Very rarely if ever did they carry their full payload capacity. Torpedo's weighed more, but that's why torpedo bombers were generally bigger and slower and didn't engage in dive bombing attacks.
With regards to the air-group, the use of aircraft is relevant to the overall strike power, a ship that carries many spares but can't fly them at the same time as the operational aircraft needs to have that noted, otherwise there are sudden apparent discrepancies between aircraft carried and aircraft used in a strike. In this context it's important to note because the lack of armoured flight decks meant in turn US hangers could be taller which is what allowed them to carry the spares in the first place, which is an advantage to their air group capacity.
Pretty sure I did mention the Essex had an armoured hanger deck, I mentioned it whilst explaining why it's sectional density was similar to the British carriers whilst Yorktowns was so much lighter.
The 'near misses' by bombs are relevant because they also caused damage to the ships affected, which in turn would affect the time they needed for repairs, the information is included so as not to present a potentially misleading idea of a certain number of direct hits only causing a given amount of time in dock for repairs.
Light weapons such as the 20mm were useful during most of the war but considered as obsolete towards the end of the war since their range and hitting power was not considered sufficient to down kamikazes etc far enough out, with a lot of ships trading in 20mm for more 40mm wherever possible in 1944/45.
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With Franklin I found many conflicting accounts, some say the attacker was a Judy, some say a Val, some say the aircraft escaped, others say it was shot down, still others say it followed it's bombs into the ship (whether intentionally or not). It's quite difficult to sort through them all to establish anything beyond "was attacked by aircraft, was hit, big explosion."
With regards to the British carriers, there isn't much of any evidence I can find that the ships had underlying structural issues after the war. There were some issues caused by rushed repairs, ships being worn out through use and in Illustrious' case recurring vibration issues as mysterious as Warspites random steering problems throughout its life after Jutland, but nothing that was out of the ordinary that couldn't have been fixed with the appropriate amount of funding allocated (money of course being the main problem). Certainly nothing indicating the ships were permanently warped or crippled due to their design.
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Hello, thanks for the long reply!
With regards to AA armament, the examination at that point was related to the design and concept behind each type of ship. As such, the designed AA suite is the fair comparison, later additions in wartime refits reflect only on later responses to threats, and don't have a bearing on the design and concept behind each type of carrier.
And in any case, both types of carrier received many Oerlikon and Bofors mounts during that war, often varying in number and balance on a per carrier basis.
The analysis of the pom pom vs Bofors was due to the lack of tracer in the formers ammo locker at the time, not overall ability to down aircraft, in that respect the USN themselves found the 2lb pom pom almost as good as the Bofors when tested against each other.
With regards to bomb types, the decks of the British carriers were rated against SAP and AP bombs up to a give weight, which thus covers the vast majority of comparable scenarios. It should be noted that even 'mere' kamikaze GP loadouts were capable of getting through to the hangers of American carriers.
A number of British carriers were hit with strike waves ready on deck, yet their damage was not as severe, and whilst Formidable was left with few aircraft, many US carriers hit were left with fewer or none as well as hundreds dead. Formidable was also the only armoured carrier scrapped immediately after the war, due to a range of wear and damage, not just the kamikaze attacks. It was still repairable, it just wasn't economic at the time. Focusing on it would be like arguing the Yorktowns were failures because two were sunk and Enterprise was likewise scrapped right after the war.
Torpedo damage is a separate issue to the armoured deck design hence why it wasn't covered in this video. Also, the number of armoured carriers that were torpedoed is... Small... Making a comparison somewhat difficult.
Fuel and range again is outside the scope on analysing the armoured deck concept, although I'd note as per the video that the Essex class were both significantly larger and newer designs, so direct comparison in those terms is like comparing the P-51 and the P-36.
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Yorktown was estimated to need 3 months to fully repair (initial estimates were 2 weeks, she was given 2 days and analysis undertaken during those 2 days reckoned some of the damaged engine parts would need complete replacement rather than patching), she was rushed back out for Midway but without her engines fully operational and thus repairs not yet complete.
The Yorktown was, at the time of the torpedo attack, still limited in speed and unable to use the full length of the flight deck, however, due to the location of the bomb impact (adjacent to the rear of the island) she was still able to launch fighters from the forward part of the deck, but she wasn't able to conduct full spectrum take off and landing of all aircraft (including torpedo bombers and dive bombers) at the time to the IJN torpedo strikes because of her limited speed and the damage to the deck (which was being patched).
After the IJN aerial torpedo strike the ship was out of power, heavily listing, water was entering at hanger deck level and the crew abandoned ship under orders from the captain who had come to the conclusion the ship was doomed. Although she was brought under tow the next day, the efforts made after she remained afloat overnight only reduced her list from 26 to 24 degrees, she was pretty much a loss at that point, the torpedoes from the sub the next day basically sealed her fate, but she wasn't (in my opinion) going to make it anyway.
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@jetdriver I think there's a bit on confusion as to the layers of planning, Spruance had to have an idea of what he wanted to do before he sailed, you don't come up with this kind of thing on the fly, and at that point Yorktown was still very much an unknown quantity. So he would've had an attack plan before Yorktowns ability to follow was known.
Then we have strategic and tactical planning, overall positioning was indeed mostly Nimitz, and as I noted in the video once Fletcher arrived he gave further detailed position orders both relative to Midway and for the two TF's relative to each other.
Again there seems to be some confusion on the levels of planning, Fletcher can order to attack upon detection, but as TF16 was the one in a position to attack, it is still down to Spruance to calculate the distance and bearing to see if such an attack is feasible to launch or if the ships need to move. If the IJN was spotted 400miles away, blindly immediately launching just because the enemy had been spotted would be a suicide mission. Note that I'm not trying to retell Midway in the video as a whole battle, moreso from the position of Spruances point of view and his responsibilities.
Once Yorktown was out of action, command responsibility would fall to the next most senior officer capable of exercising it by default, that would be Spruance. Fletcher was then not in a position to be in charge of anything much until he reached a ship from which he could communicate properly, in this case the Astoria. At that point, and much to his credit since running a carrier battle from those limited facilities would be foolhardy at best, he then signals Spruance to effectively take over operational command of the battle.
In naval tradition, you conform to the movements of the fleet commander, so while Fletcher still is head of TF17, by such a signal he has effectively flipped his and Spruances positions, both have their respective TF's but Spruance is now in overall command, so after that it is appropriate to speak of the whole US fleet present as Spruances, much as how Nelson and Collingwood led their columns at Trafalgar but the fleet overall is Nelsons. But when Nelson was incapacitated command fell to Collingwood.
I'm absolutely not trying to take anything away from Fletcher here, but as I mentioned this video is looking at Spruances point of view and actions, hence why there is also very little mention of Yorktown and her struggle, as that is more appropriate to a larger video on Midway as a battle.
Hope that makes sense :)
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@billboth4814 Well, there are two parts to it, firstly the RN took a precise survey of the ship when they took it apart a few years later and that was meticulous in surveying the ships form and its damage (which had been repaired but the areas of repair obvious). This was needed to build a copy of the ship, it doesn't show a broken keel.
Secondly, the ship, after capture, was taken to Bermuda and on the way was hit by a severe storm (possibly a hurricane), then with patched hull and rigging sent to the UK for more extensive repair. A ship with a broken back almost certainly would not have survived that storm, it would have worked itself apart. And a ship with a broken keel that somehow survived that would definitely not have made it across the Atlantic. Further, the bill of repairs for the ship in both Bermuda and the UK makes no mention and shows no trace of the kind of massive work that would be needed to fix such an injury or make the repairs to other damage sailing on such a keel would've caused.
Thus, given that the surveys were the means by which the dockyards justified the bills which in turn meant they got paid, they can be viewed as pretty neutral sources on the ships condition. Omitting that level of damage and its subsequent cost would've ruined the yard in most cases simply through financial loss, even if the ship by some miracle made it there in the first place.
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How much damage President suffered going aground is highly debatable. At the time, the damage was not seen as serious, by the time of the court Martial, it had grown significantly in the recounting. However, the Royal Navy does not seem to back up the more outlandish claims, the ship (after the fight) would survive a hurricane without significant further damage, and when it was broken up a few years later a detail survey of the ship and it's damage was taken, and is notably lacking in any broken keel etc. IE the ships actions and the survey of it after the action appear to disprove many of the claims made about it in the court Martial.
Some damage likely occurred, but there isn't any evidence of significant performance impairing damage when the ship is in British hands. At best, it's possible anti fouling sheets were dislodged and slowed the ship, but given the speed of Endymion and the rate of closure being so slow, there is a potential question mark even there.
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The US 74's built post-1812, along with other American line ships of the period, were armed with a weird mix of 32lb guns, long 32lb'ers lower down, short barrel 32lb'ers on the middle deck and 32lb carronades further up.
In theory this gives them a broadside weight similar to a first rate, but the range of the guns decks varies wildly, assuming approximately equal crews, the American ship would have a slight advantage in close range combat assuming Victory doesn't serve up a 64lb carronade bashing like it did to Bucentare, but with a near-full battery of long-guns, the Victory would have a significant advantage in a longer range firefight, so a lot would depend on who had the weather gauge and the faster ship.
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Unfortunately the accounts of the battle at the time do not support this version of events, which is what the Presidents captain changed his story too after some time back in the US.
The logs of all involved ships at the time and statements of captains and crew on both sides taken from the time of the battle and immediately after are very specific that President fought Endymion, lost, stuck it's colours (by hoisting a later, the accepted version at night).
Endymion saw this, ceased fire, and pulled away slighltyl to address damage to the rigging as the Constitution did after its fights. Seeing this, President tried to sneak away in the darkness, Pomone showed up, fired on the undamaged side, President immediately 're-surrendered' but the almost the first statement it's captain made when the boarding party arrived was that he had surrendered earlier to Endymion alone, which was coming up after fixing some of the rigging.
As I mentioned to another commentator, there was nothing in the Royal Navy assessment of ship after capture or several years later at its breaking up that mentions anything about damage to the keel, which would be a major issue. The survival of the ship in the storm after its capture also points against this.
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So the principle that navies at the time were exploring was if a 'softer' Class B style steel was better because it would flex and give way in the face of a shallow angle hard tipped shell, which could result in it being 'skipped' back out, almost like trampoline. Conversely, if the shell managed to 'bite' then this type of armour provides less resistance.
On the other hand, face-hardened armour provides more resistance in principle, but precisely because of that, the shell is more likely to 'bite' and then upend toward a more perpendicular line of attack, improving it's penetration chances.
So essentially what I'm trying to do is get two sheets of metal one significantly soft than the projectile, one quite hard and rigid, and shoot them at a variety of shallow angles to see what effects they have.
The problem of course is that if one of them does work, the projectile is going to go flying off into the sky :D
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@Winterx69 I'm afraid I must once again disagree, the 35kt limit was initially brought in during the WNT and carried forward into LNT, and the AGNA clause I mentioned and you cited here specifically mentioned the existing system of max tonnage and armament limitations for vessels, which at the time was LNT, which incorporated WNT's 35kt limit.
Clause 2(d) also commits the German government to future treaties with these limits (LNT2) unless those treaties do not include limits, at which point negotiation would be needed.
As such, the KGV's and Bismark's were both laid down in a period where the UK was signed up to LNT2 and Germany had agreed to abide by this as well (as it was a future general treaty with limitations). The ships commission date is not relevant to if they are treaty breaking as broadly speaking the ships displacement is largely speaking fixed at the design stage (bar a few hundred tons for changes to equipment during build).
Displacement: You are using the KGV's and Bismmark's deep load displacement, which is not what was regulated by treaty, what was regulated by treaty was Standard Displacement, which is a known measurement and one to which the KGV's adhered (their standard displacement was just a fraction over 35kt) but the Bismark's did not (standard displacement c.42kt).
Additionally, nobody considered the LNT obsolete or voided because of the AGNA, the LNT2 conference was held because LNT had an expiry date of the end of 1936 and needed replacing. None of the powers you list launched treaty-breaking ships in 35/36, and you appear to be taking deep-load displacements of ships as the unit of measure, whereas, as above, this was not the case for measuring treaty compliance.
Thus, the Bismarck's were treaty breaking in at least one major respects, their standard displacement was ~7kt more than treaty limitations (displacement escalator clause was not invoked until 2 years after they started construction).
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The destroyers were accounted for, however, the USN wasn't wasteful, at Samar the DD's attacked because they had to, when more suitable ships are available, the USN doesn't throw smaller ships away for no good reason.
And the radar figure you quote are simply wrong, no radar on any of 7th Fleets ships was capable of giving accurate fire control data out to 47k yards, nor were the guns physically capable of that kind of range.
Historically, there were a mix a radars with different ranges and capabilities present aboard the US ships, whose capabilities were reflected in this scenario. As was realistic battle range, it does no good if you can shoot out to 30k yards if there is minimal chance of actually hitting anything.
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@jamesadamo2784 Well for a start, Lee's ship at minimum and likely the rest of his unit would be crack gunnery ships, the cruiser and destroyer force with them is numerically inferior to the Japanese in cruisers but superior is destroyers. Given USS Johnston's 'hide in rain squalls and hit with radar directed gunfire' trick, which the larger US ships could pull off as well if they want, making return IJN fire less of a problem, the basic issue is that any of the US battleships in TF34 is more than a match for Kongo or Haruna, and also comfortably superior to Nagato for the most part. The only problem is Yamato, but even if Yamato beats a US battleship as fast as the US ships would beat the Kongo's, that leaves Yamato facing a 2 vs 1 and soon likely a 3 vs 1 once Nagato dies, not accounting for the fact the USN destroyers will likely be cutting through their IJN counterparts to deliver torpedo strikes.
As such, even optimistically for the IJN they might get two battleships in exchange for being wiped out, possibly none.
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@DundeeDazza Except your first post is not acting as a critic, it's just acting like a douche. A critic would say something like "Why did you use a photo of H24 at timestamp when you're still talking about K Boats?', you did not, you instead expressed faux incredulity and made unfounded assertions.
In any case, the 4th of August 1916 commission date for K3 comes from several sources, but for example it is recorded in 'The K Boats', page 39, and 'British Submarines of the Great War', page 209, the RN in this time period has a habit of commissioning first-in-class ships long before trials are completed, and there was a rush on getting the K's into service, which may explain why 'commission' and 'completion' dates are adrift.
Both books relate the Prince Albert/KGV dive as occurring before January 1917 but don't specify a date, only a location (Stokes Bay).
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@HaVoC117X this is incorrect, South Dakota lost electrical power to it's systems as a result on an on-board electrical fault during the initial skirmish with the IJN destroyers. Atago and Takao engaged the ship later when it's systems were already down, and despite this later battering was able to reestablish some it's systems later in the engagement. This is why it's unrepresentative of the class in general, the fault was caused by human error and training and the underlying issue was rectified after the battle.
With Bismarck, the guns remaining operational after the main fcs lines were cut meant little as without that data their ability to hit the enemy was badly degraded, allowing the enemy to get even more shots in, included penetrating hits, the most spectacular being the destruction of Bruno turret to a penetrating hit by Rodney. Conversely, the crew of the secondary fcs stations largely survived, with their equipment demolished later in the battle by direct penetrating hits.
Sensor loss is of course a problem but the sensors are a fairly small target on a battleship, the cables run across much more of the ship and are much more likely to take damage, and if not protected are also much easier to damage, a hit nearby can knock out unprotected cables with shrapnel, whereas the actual FCS sensors usually require a direct impact to get rid of.
And with regards to German gunnery, their hitting first is something of a myth in capital engagements. At Lofoten they score hits simultaneously with Renown, at Denmark Strait it's Prince of Wales that scores the first hit, in it's last battle Bismarck was still establishing range when Rodney scored the first hits. At North Cape the British scored the first hits against Scharnhorst, not the other way around, and that's pretty much all the major capital ship actions the Germans took part in.
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@dwightlooi yes, but in exactly the same battle, despite all six battleships having radar, Maryland ended up having to range visually by splashes, Mississippi missed with it's only salvo and Pennsylvania couldn't even find a target and didn't open fire. (These all had older radars)
Further, despite having the same equipment as West Virginia, neither Tennessee nor California scored first salvo hits.
As I said, numerous factors come into play radar helps, but it guarantees nothing.
Look at the radar-guided Iowa's ranged firing tests in the late war, perfect conditions and no return fire, radar still couldn't guarantee hits at long range.
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Two parts of the Anglo-German Naval Agreement indicate Germany is bound by the same tonnage/calibre limits as everyone else by signing it:
(d)The German Government favour, the matter of limitation of naval armaments, that system which divides naval vessels into categories, fixing the maximum tonnage and/or armament for vessels in each category, and allocates the tonnage to be allowed to each Power by categories of vessels. Consequently, in principle, and subject to (f) below, the German Government are prepared to apply the 35 per cent. ratio to the tonnage of each category of vessel to be maintained, and to make any variation of this ratio in a particular category or categories dependent on the arrangements to this end that may be arrived at in a future general treaty on naval limitation, such arrangements being based on the principle that any increase in one category would be compensated for by a corresponding reduction in others. If no general treaty on naval limitation should be concluded, or if the future general treaty should not contain provision creating limitation by categories, the manner and degree in which the German Government will have the right to vary the 35 percent. ratio in one or more categories will be a matter for settlement by agreement between the German Government and His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom, in the light of the naval situation then existing.
(g) Since it is highly improbable that the calculation of the 35 per cent. ratio should give for each category of vessels tonnage figures exactly divisible by the maximum individual tonnage permitted for ships in that category, it may be necessary that adjustments should be make in order that Germany shall not be debarred from utilising her tonnage to the full. It has consequently been agreed that the German Government and His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom will settle by common accord what adjustments are necessary for this purpose, and it will be understood that this procedure shall not result in any substantial or permanent departure from the ratio 35:100 in respect of total strengths.
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@espadajusta4380 as I said, I would appreciate either a link to reputable academic article or the name of a book or two for research, I'm aware of both the abuses of natives elsewhere in other countries colonies, and of the laws passed by Spain for the Spanish colonies. However, from what I learned whilst in Bolivia, those laws were regarded by the local colonial government as trash from Spain they were never going to follow, for example in the silver mines they leveraged the old Inca labour tax system to feed natives into the dangerous roles nobody sane would ever do, until when the death rates got too high they started feeding in Africans instead.
As I said, Spain isn't unique it it's mistreatment of natives, but I have not yet seen a decent source on them being somehow much better than anyone else either, if you have one please feel free to link me to it as above.
I don't especially hate the Spanish, but I don't have any particular affection for their colonial era people either.
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As I understand them, the idea of uptake vents is to create miniature versions of a ships funnel from an enclosed space, with the idea of the overall system being to try and create a slight overpressure in the ship section, with the idea being that the fumes (which rise) would then be forced out the vents, and once the flow gets going the funnel effect helps sustain efforts to clear the fumes out and introduce clean air.
The key to it all is getting the vents correctly sized, proportioned and positioned, and ideally the hanger designed to best exploit the effect. Likewise with the blowers. Thus, a refit to a ship previously without them or lacking sufficient systems will always be less effective that purpose built systems incorporated into the design, all other factors being equal.
But due to the funnel effect it also needs some complex modelling and understanding of fluid dynamics to get right.
Along with the US's generally good R&D they also has the somewhat unique circumstance of a number of Essex class being turned into firestorms and surviving, so they had the best possible way to see how things should work and develop their designs, whereas the British didn't have any fleet carriers burn anywhere near as bad and all the Japanese ones that did ended up sinking. :)
Hope that helps.
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@EVANGELOSS54 So, part of this is going to be because I'm attempting a speed-run of half a century of Greek politics in about 15 mins, which leads to some one-sentence summations of very complex issues. However, the sources I listed do support what I put in the video, else there would be little point in listing them, more specifically the books listed.
With that said;
a) Otto does have a long list of issues with his reign, he may have done some popular/good things as well, a revolt against absolute monarchy in 1843, you say he transformed Greece, he did this by giving into the demands of people directly opposed to what he was trying to do. The 1862 coup I've seen described in numerous sources as a culmination of Greek popular dissatisfaction, not some grand conspiracy by the British. He's been described as "neither ruthless enough to be feared, nor compassionate enough to be loved, nor competent enough to be respected." by one historian. So it sounds like we both know of the same incidents but have very different takes on their causes.
b) You seem to have completely misunderstood the time period and duration I was referring to, I was talking about the first 25 years of George I's reign, where there are 42 recorded changes of the head of the government from 1862-1887, when Charilaos Trikoupis managed to make his 4th go at the job stick a bit longer than before.
c) That statement about the cockroaches is taken directly from the memoirs of Prince Christopher, the youngest of George I's sons, so he should know about the conditions he grew up in. Conditions were bad enough that the same account records Andrea catching typhoid at least once from the poor state of the plumbing, and that the place had been ransacked in the aftermath of Otto's departure.
d) Except for Charles I basing himself out of Oxford and not Nottingham (although that is where he raised his standard at the start of the war), your summary would be in essence correct if short. Likewise while as you list there is a lot more to it, again this isn't a video on details of Greek political history, it's a speed-run through it to set context for the life of Philip, who isn't even born at this stage, and the basic facts that Venizelos proclaimed a government in opposition to the King, using Salonika as their based of operations, is in essence correct, if short.
e) Withe regards to the war in 1921/22, again, this video is not the place for a full history of that war, but the part I was referring to was the latter stages of the campaign where, having secured the western coast of Asia Minor, the Greek Army went off into the interior chasing down the Ottomans/Turks, which is why I made the Xenophon allusion as he famously marched across land to the sea and that element of the Greek plan seemed to be marching from the sea across the (arid) land. This is the part of the campaign I was talking about.
f) Regardless of personal valour in battle, charisma or popularity with the troops etc, Plastiras was one of the main, if not the main, ringleaders of a coup that toppled the King, lionise him all you want for other things, but a military overthrow of a government because you don't like the way a war is going is a pretty extreme form of action no matter which way you look at it.
g) This seems to be historical revisionism to the extreme, Andrew did not fleet the front, he tried to resign, was refused, but later was granted leave. He left the front, yes, but in an entirely authorised way. Andrew himself testified that he was taken from Corfu on the alleged basis of giving evidence at the special court martial that would become known as the 'Trial of Six', even if this was a ruse to get him to 'come quietly', it is what he was told. Theodore Pangalos was in charge of the inquiry and personally asked Andrew how many children he had, when told, he replied ‘Poor things, what a pity they will soon be orphans.’ which is about as open a death threat as you can get without straight up saying 'we are going to kill you', again this is from Andrew's own testimony.
h) This section was noted in the video to be the perspective of George V given events both in Greece and abroad that had recently transpired. Moreover, the idea of Andrew being sentenced to death was reported quite widely as possible at the time, however, given that the British had threatened to break off diplomatic relations if the eight men on trial were executed (as six were) and then did so immediately after the executions, plus Talbot's behind-the-scenes negotiating on Andrew's behalf, likely gives the reason as to why Andrew was not eventually sentenced to death. The coup leaders likely valued the shield of the largest power in the world against the worst of Turkish agression more than revenge against an officer some of them had personally not gotten along with.
i) the specific quote, that Talbot "‘knew more about the tortuous channels of Greek politics than most Greek politicians’, comes directly from a period source. The part about "The Prince will be tried on Saturday and sentenced probably to penal servitude or possibly to death." comes directly from a British diplomatic cable, I'm quote directly again from a communication written at the time, the same as the death threat from Pangalos comes directly from a letter Andrew smuggled out of the prison he was held in.
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@Karthagast As I said, the arguments for and against the ship are varied, most center around speed, primarily because at the time of the ship coming into service there were a number of torpedo boats capable of greater speed and thus being able to get around it, coupled with that ship having a minimal torpedo armament itself (Again relative to contemporaries). A ship designed primarily as an escort which is slower than some of it's targets and carries minimal torpedo armament of it's own typically can be argued to fall into the torpedo gunboat role, whereas the torpedo boat destroyer generally was designed equally for offence and defence, had to be about as fast as contemporary torpedo boats and had to carry a reasonable torpedo punch itself.
There is also the issue of a design lineage, Destructor didn't spawn an immediately identifiable line of successor designs.
Hence, some well respected authors argue the ship was more like one of the ultimate expressions of the torpedo gunboat as opposed to a torpedo boat destroyer. With that controversy still ongoing, I couldn't in good faith state that Destructor catagorically was the first destroyer, but at the same time, it needed to be mentioned. Hence I added the segment on it to encourage people to look at it in more detail and come to their own conclusions.
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Nelsons main belt was 14" sloped at 18 degrees, Iowa's was 12.1" sloped at 19 degrees, Nelson's deck was 6.25", Iowa's was 6", so at their respective maximum armour thicknesses Nelson was better protected. In the final battle with Bismarck, Rodney's guns punched through 16" equivilant armour at a range where on paper she shouldn't have been able to. Based on that, Iowa's belt would be vulnerable to c.17-18k yards, which would be within reasonable battle range.
Due to the massive power of the Iowa's guns, Nelson is vulnerable further out unless she angles herself (taking advantage of the all-forward battery), but as above, she isn't incapable of hurting Iowa.
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