Comments by "Jessica Dainese" (@JessicaDainese) on "Leeja Miller"
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@yvesleduc7860 in Italy the revolution was much less quiet in the 60s and 70s. Today we have the lowest marriage rate in Europe/ one of the lowest in the world, one of the lowest birthrates in the world (1.2), most "families" are monofamilies (singles, with cats and dogs), and practicing catholics are around 10% and mostly very old people. I live in the North, in Padova, which is among the top cities for singles, leftists, students, atheists. Things are a bit different in a place like Sicily, obviously. But my mother, in the 60s, was listening to the Beatles, wearing tiny miniskirts and hotpants, reading feminist books, definitely not religious, and my dad was a communist with long hair. They were both from small rural towns in Veneto, and they were not rich nor University students. So this behavior was not only common among the "elites", it was common among low middle class, working class, rural class youth. They got divorce laws approved, legal abortions, free birth control, reform of family laws and lots more. They changed Italian society forever. If there ever was a "catholic morality" in Italy, it was dead by the 60s. I think in the North it was never strong anyway. I can not wait till religion is wiped out of Italy completely.
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@Mistak23 My kindergarden (in Italy, late 70s) was run by nuns. I started hating them right there and then. I did not respect any of their "rules" because they did not make sense to me (I was born an atheist and I will die an atheist). Fortunately, 1) my father was a communist (and atheist), and very involved in local politics, 2) my family had a successful business, so we knew people, 3) my mother was a feminist, not interested in religion, and very much against rules (for herself and for her daughters). So I was the only child in the whole kindergarden who disobeyed all the rules, was openly critical of Christianity/ religion and an atheist, talked back to the nuns all the time, and I was never EVER punished in any way 😂 I am sure I would have been abused if my parents were not so relevant in local politics and successful in business. Or if I had a different personality. I find it very amusing I could insult Christianity all the time in kindergarden, and later in religion class (which I ditched once it was no longer compulsory) in elementary and middle school, and they (nuns, priests, religion teachers) could not punish me in any way, because if they dared, I would have told my parents, and they would have raised hell 😂 It is a shame my parents were the only ones in our little town to openly challenge the Church in the 70's. The antagonism between the town priest and the local communist politician was so common in post-WW2 Italy that it became a TV series (Peppone e Don Camillo) 😂
Today in Italy no one cares about religion anymore, not even the ones who call themselves "catholic". They know nothing about their own religion, so you can't even debate with them. No fun.
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@daveburke5177 they had power in Italy during the fascist regime, when Mussolini (an atheist) made a deal with the Vatican (Patti Lateranensi) that made Catholicism the State religion. It lasted on paper till the early 80s, but the Church did not have any control of the population. The popes after WWII "excommunicated" all communists, but the Italian Communist Party was massive, the biggest Communist Party in the West. So I guess at least one third of Italians were "excommunicated" then, and they did not care 😂 Since my family was among these "excommunicated" communists, I never felt the Church had any control of the Italian population. In the 70s divorce and abortion were made legal and supported by public referendum. The feminist movement was pretty radical and supported by the Communist Party and the Radical Party, so it had a mass base, it was not (only) a movement of the "élites". When in 1984 Craxi "reviewed" the Patti Lateranensi to officially separate the Italian State from the Church (catholicism was not the "official" State religion anymore), the civil society was already pretty much secular. I have to say though that I am always talking about Northern and Central Italy. The South and Sicily were (and still are) more religious. For a long time I believed Italy must be the country where the Church had the most power, since the Vatican is on Italian land and all. I did not know it had so much power in Canada, Irland, Poland, Spain etc. I always compared Italy to France and to Scandinavia, which I saw as much more secular and progressive than us. I think in some countries being catholic was a "political identity", like being muslim can be today for alot of people. The Irish people were catholic vs the English being protestant. The Poles were catholic vs the Soviet Union being Communist/ atheist. The catholic French speaking Canadians vs the protestant English speaking Canadians. We never needed to identify as "catholic" in Italy against an "enemy". And being closer to the Vatican made us more aware of all the bad stuff they did (and still do). I find it relevant that the Italian languages ("dialects") have more blasphemies ("bestemmie") against god, mary, the saints, Jesus etc than any other language 😂 I am from a region (Veneto) famous for our "bestemmie" 😂 I guess the stronger the virus, the strongest antibodies one develops. I hope I made sense 😂
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@petervizzini4006 and you know a child is not a property of the parents, right? In fact, many times we need to separate them for the good of the child. In Europe home schooling is not generally legal, all children must get real education. No religion bs, no "creationism", no flat earth, no anti LGBT propaganda, none of that bs. And sex ed for every child. Teen pregnancies are basically non existing in Italy and most of Europe. It makes me angry to see one of the richest countries on earth (USA) have third world levels of education, healthcare, mortality, homophobia, believes in the supernatural etc. Very peculiar.
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@triciamtl that sounds horrible. In Italy before the country was united in 1861 (1866 actually was when the last region, mine - Veneto - was annexed from Austria), the Vatican ruled the Papal States in Central Italy. They soon became the most anticlerical, atheist, areas of Italy. And the most fiercely Communist ones. We call them the red regions (Toscana, Umbria, Marche, Emilia Romagna) or "red belt" of Italy. I guess that shows how bad the Church was and how much people hate it. That's another Italian stereotype I hate. Italians are NOT catholic. Probably never were. The North is and has long been atheist/agnostic/ indifferent like most of Western Europe, and the South is more "pagan" I guess, more superstitious. Of course the Catholic Church stole pagan traditions, symbols, even people, and pretended they were catholic traditions, symbols and saints, but they did that everywhere. There still are millions of Italians, especially in the South, who believe in witches, the horoscopes, fortune tellers, psychics, tarots, etc etc. I know many more Italians who believe in that stuff than in the christian god. We do not have televangelists in Italy like in the USA. But we do have a big choice of psychis, fortune tellers, mediums and the likes on TV. Some astrologers, like Paolo Fox, are big TV celebrities here. Does that sound like a catholic country? In Italy the Vatican was, and still is, seen as a political entity that wants polical power. It was never a "spiritual entity". Italians are not "spiritual" people.
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@therealrobertbirchall why did women accept that? You know, in countries with a big patriarchal culture, like we can see today, women's response has been to stop dealing with men, marriage and children. See South Korea, Japan, Spain and Italy for example. If the men keep on wanting a monopoly of power, they will get no marriage, no children, and not even sex. I expect they, than, will start more grapings and forced pregnancies. It is a very dark day for American women today.
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