Comments by "" (@titteryenot4524) on "The German towns in Paraguay with a surge in European immigrants – BBC News" video.

I’ve always found it interesting when Europeans who consider themselves ‘indigenous’ to this continent and more entitled thereby compared to other less-entitled, ‘non-indigenous’ folk, suddenly go silent when America is mentioned, or Australia, or New Zealand, or Mexico, or Peru, or Brazil; for by their logic no European who arrived post 1519 in Mexico, post 1524 in Peru, post 1500 in Brazil, post 1620 in America, and no European who arrived after 1606 in Australia and in New Zealand after 1642 has more entitlement than the ‘indigenous’ Aborigines. Not to mention all the African and Indian nonsense that went on as Europeans arrived and aggressively imposed their ways. No, somehow it’s ok that European settlers moved to these places and brutally subjugated (and in millions of cases, enslaved) those already settled there, but when non-Europeans arrive in Europe, to work, to seek a better life in most cases, somehow that’s just not on. Hypocrisy and double-standards doesn’t begin to cover it, and those who moan about immigration into Europe have not a leg to stand on when a few non-Europeans pitch up in their backyard to play.
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@101-q6t I’m not! I’m simply pointing out that Europeans, historically, have not a leg to stand on when they moan about non-Europeans coming to Europe.
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@EricBlair-jg2ux Where did I say that the citizens of a country shouldn’t have a say as to who comes to live there? As a matter of fact, I happen to think that there should be a people’s referendum on the issue, in any democracy worthy of that name. My main point here was the baloney ‘indigenous’ one that so many unthinking morons bandy about as a reason for them being more ‘entitled’ than those they perceive as ‘non-indigenous’ ethnically. That’s all. If you’re a citizen of any country, you thereby have just as much of a say as the next citizen, regardless of the genetic make-up of the citizens involved, and if you gainsay this position you just smack of an ethnic racist of quite the most sinister kind, privileging your own accident of birth race/ethnicity based on nothing but your whim. History repeatedly shows that when those who think like that get any untrammelled power, it tends to turn out badly, and not necessarily for them. There now; that wasn’t too difficult, was it? Word to the wise: if you’re going to plump for a moniker like ‘Eric Blair 1948’, you really should have better stuff, as you’re setting yourself up for a mighty fall when you hide behind one of the greatest writers and thinkers of the 20th Century. You might wanna think about this going forward. You’re welcome.
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@cal7168 Why are you believing in a random, arbitrary accident of birth as a key marker of your identity in the first place? You could have been born anywhere, so why are you claiming some kind of unearned ‘pride’ that your mother plopped you out here and not over there? Makes utterly no sense.
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@luciobrazil007 Er, and I’m sure the Arabs and Africans said that every time they were flooded by random Europeans and their imposition of how things should be done.
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@TheFirstCause Yes, full of that ‘European heritage’ Europeans imposed at the barrel of a gun. Lovely stuff. Nice to give the natives a few choices. 👍
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@101-q6t You were randomly plopped out somewhere, mate. You had no say in the matter. To that extent it’s random. Claiming some unearned ‘pride’ in something you had no say in could be a definition of insanity.
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@EricBlair-jg2ux I’m saying we are all ‘indigenous’ to Africa, so it all depends how far back you want to take this. I like to go back to the beginning to obviate racial supremacy baloney.
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@cal7168 I repeat, why are you proud of an accident of birth? It’s irrational folly to stake your very being in such nonsense. If you’re going to go for this crap, why aren’t you ‘proud’ of planet Earth? Why limit yourself to arbitrary, abstract lines drawn on a map which have been revised many times, and will be revised many times again?
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@101-q6t So why aren’t you calling for every single person of European heritage in North and South America be sent back to Europe?
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@TTCanadaJapan Agreed. Certain strands of Islam seem unable and/or unwilling to make the effort every other culture seems to.
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@kiabtoomlauj6249 Some of your points were a bit dodgy, but the one about religion being a private matter was the key one. If you give any organised religion an inch, historically, it takes a mile.
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@keepingitwild5994 What about all the ‘trouble’ Europeans have exported historically?
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@Lorenz1973 Can I just say that I have read this thread from top to bottom and from your OP to here, you have brilliantly argued your case against all comers. Respect. ✊
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@Nicolas Olivier My point is quite simple: if Europeans can roam around the world and impose their culture then you have no right to moan when a few other different cultures show up in your backyard. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. You might call it a kind of ‘geopolitical karma’. 😉
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@cal7168 Indeed. That’s my point. The term is meaningless, as it all depends where you choose to begin now, doesn’t it, depending on your agenda?
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@Nicolas Olivier Did the ‘indigenous’ natives have any say in whether they wanted the imposition of that general European ‘environment’? Were they given that choice? If they weren’t, then what right do you have to complain when non-Europeans come to live in Europe?
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@wakabayashigenzo4373 Yeah, nice people as long as you share their thoughts, their behaviours. Heaven forfend that others may think differently from these ‘enlightened’ Germans.
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@gregducati999 Yeah, that and all the murder and slavery and theft. Yeah, that too.
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@nicoles9077 In the UK, every culture I can think of integrates well. In England there is a Muslim population who very much live in ghetto cities in the North. However, this doesn’t obtain with Muslims over all the UK, and the many Muslims I know are well-integrated, productive members of society. If you live in an open, free, democratic society, you can’t pick and choose on the basis of faith or culture, if you agree to a certain amount of immigration in the first place.
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@Nicolas Olivier Turks are not Arabs.
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@mayawhite447 Just saying that Europeans should be very, very, very aware of the historical terms here. They have exported more misery than most these past 1,000 years or so. S’all.
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@DucadiBorgogna_ Well, actually there is interpretation, as it’s well known that there are layers of interpretation of each Surah. I was just making the point that if certain passages exhort violence, and many do, and you read these as actual commands to behaviour, then we have a problem, Mecca. Take the following: Surah 3:151: We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve (all non-Muslims) … Surah 2:191: And kill them (non-Muslims) wherever you find them … kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers (non-Muslims). Surah 9:5: Then kill the disbelievers (non-Muslims) wherever you find them, capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush … Seems to me that there is little unambiguous about these passages. However, the Koran, as with the Bible, is replete with passages which may be interpreted on many levels depending on your mood and whim. Personally, all of it is just stuff written by humans, and for me it’s to be read as I would read Greek/Roman myth. Taken literally is the way of madness.
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@DucadiBorgogna_ Lol. I do hope you’re being ironic, there, as that doesn’t appear to be clear.
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@101-q6t I agree on this point. This is a referendum issue, concerning economic immigrants. However, the asylum seeker issue wouldn’t apply here.
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@keepingitwild5994 How about just keeping their noses out of other people’s business? The double standards hypocrisy is egregious. You’ll make rules about who comes to your neck of the woods, but when your forbears went to other parts, what say did the ‘indigenous’ populations have then? You’re laughable in your hypocrisy.
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@DucadiBorgogna_ To be fair though, mate, we should all be thankful Christianity has been relatively defanged these past 100 years or so. I’m agnostic and as far as I can see, much of Islamic practice and adherence is similar to what Christianity was like centuries ago. Truth is, that with no Islamic Reformation of any kind, a worrying amount of Muslims take their text by the letter. Very dangerous. This is not an ‘Islam’ problem; this is an organised religion problem. When people use texts written by primitive, ignorant, often barbaric folk and use these texts literally, then that way madness lies, as 2000 years of sanguinary human history evinces.
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@gregducati999 Answer me this: I knock on your door tomorrow and ask you if I can occupy your house against your will, impose my will, and if you dare refuse this I kill you? You happy with that scenario, sunshine?
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@Nicolas Olivier I’m anti all colonialism, if the consent of the colonised is not obtained. It’s quite simple. Answer me this: I knock on your door tomorrow and ask you if I can occupy your house against your will, impose my will, and if you dare refuse this I kill you, would you be happy with this scenario? However, if you agree to my occupation of your house, and the imposition of my ways, that is different. As far as I can see, if you are obeying the laws, speaking the native language and paying your taxes, then anyone has just as much right to live in a place as anyone else. That said, I’m not for open-door immigration when it comes to economic migrants and each nation rightly reserves the right to control this as it wishes. However, I do advocate an open-door policy for any genuine asylum seeker seeking refuge; although it would perhaps be preferable if international agreements as to these could be reached so that one country isn’t taking in more than their fair share proportionally to resources available.
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@Nicolas Olivier Yes, but Spain and Portugal stole, enslaved, murdered and imposed their mores and ways back in the 16th Century.
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@Nicolas Olivier Why are you stating stuff as if I don’t know it’s morally wrong? I repeat, as I’ve repeated throughout this thread, if Europeans don’t think they have buckets of blood on their hands, they are living in cloud cuckoo land. If anyone is enslaving, or violently imposing their mores and will on another then that is wrong. On this score, Europeans are as guilty as anyone else you care to mention, therefore for Europeans to talk as if they aren’t guilty of the most brutal historical crimes is laughable.
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@Nicolas Olivier No one is innocent in all this. Every culture, most countries I can think of are complicit in terrible crimes against humanity at one point or another. It’s not a game of weighing these against each other, and thereby scoring points; it’s about acknowledging it was all wrong. Most people I know are for controlled immigration; I’m aware of no one who would have absolutely no non-European immigration to Europe. So we take it from there. As Prypiat says in this thread, the middle way is usually the right way. The extremes, in my experience, in political terms, are always unbalanced: that is, open-door immigration advocates versus closed-door advocates. Willing to bet that 90%+ of Europeans are in favour of some controlled economic immigration; determining what that might be in practice is the issue.
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@luciobrazil007 Yawn However, there were quite a few ‘ethnic Germans’ willing to go along with the ideas of Hitler.
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@Consigliere What? Europeans have never exported trouble?! Lmao. Europeans since 1492 have been exporting murder, slavery, colonialism without consent of the colonised, theft, war. Need I say any more?
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@Consigliere Who? Well, who you got? Spain, France, Portugal, Britain, Netherlands; this doesn’t include all the citizens from Europe that went to live all over the world and imposed their ways and mores on the back of the state-sponsored colonialism. Europe displays a staggering lack of self-awareness and an egregious double standards hypocrisy when it moans about economic migration into Europe.
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@Hermetica022 But they come here because they can with our immigration systems. It’s not immigrants’ fault if they want to come to Europe for a better life. It’s up to you to stop them at source. If you can’t/won’t do this, then shut the fuck up.
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Well said.👍
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@DucadiBorgogna_ 😂
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@wakabayashigenzo4373 Who?
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@prypiatshadow Wise second paragraph.👍
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