Comments by "" (@titteryenot4524) on "Elections in France decide battle between Emmanuel Macron and the left – BBC News" video.
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What’s happening in France can be correlated with Brexit and Trump. Instead of looking at this in terms of traditional left versus right, David Goodheart’s thesis of two distinct ‘tribes’, the ‘anywheres’ and the ‘somewheres’, with irreconcilable differences may be applicable here. Brexiteers, Trumpeteers and Le Penistas fall into the ‘somewhere’ camp and they may be seen as rooted in geographical identity - the Scottish farmer; working-class Geordie; Cornish housewife - who find rapid changes to the modern world unsettling; are socially conservative; are likely to be older and less well educated and less mobile. This manifests in supporting anti-mass-immigration policies; strong support for the Armed Forces; suspicion of the EU, and more widely ‘other’ cultures; strong support for strict law enforcement (including the death penalty) and a general authoritarianism, with the notion that the primary job of Britain’s leaders is to put British interests first. ‘Anywheres’ are footloose; often urban; university educated; socially liberal; egalitarian and meritocratic in their attitudes to race, sexuality, and gender; are able to migrate and integrate comfortably into other places; are often strong supporters of the EU and globalisation; are lighter in their attachments to larger group identities, including national ones, valuing autonomy and self-realisation before stability, community and tradition. What’s happening in France may be seen as a battle between the Anywheres and the Somewheres just as Brexit and Trump’s election may be seen in these terms. Melenchon’s core base appears to be a curious mixture of the two: ‘Somewheres’ and ‘Anywheres’; traditional left-leaning working-class folk rooted in their specific communities, and a more metropolitan strain, found in the big cities, and while left-leaning, also more likely to fall into the ‘Anywhere’ tribe, principally due to a higher-level of education.
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@atlasnetwork7855 I disagree. There is a lot of truth in Goodheart’s thesis; this is only anecdotal, but it’s apposite: virtually everyone I know who voted to remain is university-educated, has lived in several places other than their place of birth and upbringing, are invariably socially liberal, are not arsed about ‘accident-of-birth’ crap as a key marker of their identity, are open to (and, vitally, not threatened by) other cultures, have travelled extensively, are often multilingual (yes, these are Brits!). While, contra this, the principal core of Brexiteers I know are not university-educated (and, actually, often have an active disdain for the life of the mind), have not only not lived anywhere else but their ‘accident-of-birth’ realm, but have often not been beyond a Spanish Costa when it comes to seeing other parts of this planet, are socially conservative to the point of appearing racist, sexist and homophobic to the Anywheres (not that this is an issue for the Somewheres, as they often wear their prejudices like badges of honour), are often poor in speaking their mother-tongue, let alone other tongues, and so it goes on. Now, of course, there are exceptions to these and this is my anecdotal experience, but this experience largely tallies with Goodheart’s thesis in broad terms.
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@atlasnetwork7855 I would add that you are perhaps misreading me; just because folk don’t have formal further and higher education doesn’t make them stupid. However, I would argue that it does make them, broadly, socially conservative, suspicious, often intolerant, often disdainful of the life of the mind, often, yes, racist, sexist and homophobic. None of these things ipso facto mark you out as stupid, necessarily, but they are certainly a predictor of whether you’re going to want to throw your lot in with a bunch of ‘funny foreigners’ across the water. For the record, I’m highly suspicious of the E.U., but on balance, think it’s the better thing. Just.
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@atlasnetwork7855
1. I wasn’t suggesting people don’t have a right to these opinions; I was just pointing it out as I see it. Moreover, I have absolutely no issue, personally, with these opinions being expressed.
2. I disagree. I would say that if being sexist, racist and homophobic isn’t ‘right-wing’, then we are going to render such terms meaningless thereby.
3. You are naive to suggest that folk who are strongly anti-immigration aren’t somewhat racist. Not all, but lots are; perhaps the majority in their various ways. For the record, I get why people are intolerant of what they see as mass immigration and think this is a national referendum issue; however, there is a strong streak of racism behind much of the anti-immigration thing in my experience.
4. I stand by my claim that those I’m aware of who are strongly anti-European, are often anti-women, anti-gays, and anti-just about any other culture you care to mention that isn’t their own narrow one.
5. Not necessarily ‘Europhile’; that’s perhaps exaggerating it. I think you’re missing my general point here. This is, that people who are broadly educated in the liberal tradition are more likely to have fewer issues with foreign cultures generally. That’s all I was really saying. Don’t get too sidetracked with the Brexit thing in this regard.
6. We may have to agree to disagree here, mate. Your points are well made and I’m on board with much of what you say, but I stand by what I’ve said in this thread.
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@atlasnetwork7855 Not sure why you keep harping on about this ‘risk averse’ thing. I never mentioned this once. At the risk of repeating myself, my thesis is rather simple: those who have been broadly educated in further and higher education (although I include the autodidacts in this, too), correlate with more open, tolerant, liberal attitudes to others generally. This is my experience over decades. Conversely, those who have had a poor/basic education (for whatever reason) tend to be narrow, intolerant, conservative, hidebound and not much in favour of very much beyond their own very narrow self-interest. Now, of course, we are all in favour of our own self-interest, but some self-interests are grander and broader than others. That’s all. Not sure why this should be news, frankly. It’s obvious stuff to anyone with eyes to see.
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