Comments by "upabittoolate" (@upabittoolate) on "Bullies Lead To Suicide - Sentenced To..." video.

@Fleursdelily You're missing it. Her support system DID fail her. They DIDN'T read the signs. They DIDN'T get in her head to see what was happening. They WEREN'T sufficiently involved. Is it all their fault? No. But it's more than half their fault.
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@Ibis333 What, in your estimation, is the charge? If you're going to take each incident of assault/battery, etc., & charge them for the offenses piecemeal, that's fine by me. But other than that, there's no tangible charge regarding the suicide. In that resepct, Cenk is correct; kinda. Let's be honest, suicide is about as final as it gets. So are you gonna argue abstractions?
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@Fleursdelily What I'm saying is that the bullying wasn't the sole, mitigating factor. I've tried to lay out that part of my arguemnt but youtube's 500 character format limts my remarks. I think the only prosecution or penalties the kids should receive are those which are commensurate to the actual, on-book laws broken & those which are age-appropriate.
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@Fleursdelily I answered you. I said I'd've greenlighted my daughter to hurt 1 of those little fuckers. But most importantly, I'd ask my daughter what she'd have me do. If that means using 1 of the aforementioned could'ves, then we'd work through it. But as has been stated it IS partially the family's fault. They failed their daughter by not being active enough.
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@Fleursdelily I've fought 6 men before. I didn't win but I fought. I injured 3 of them. Why? Because I'm not a victim. Furthermore, those 6 cowards aren't always gonna be 6. At some point they'll be 1 at a time. But let's no argue petty logistics. Spare me the shit about digging into the psyche. That doesn't drive all people to suicide so you can't argue causation.
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@MsHeatOfPassion I'm a person who can't stand trolls unless it's me who's trolling. Now shut the heck up.
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@AsifIcarebear3 If you can show me the part where I said suicide was murder, I'd be impressed. I said that bullies commit murder all the time. And I'm glad to see that you think kids should be left alone to fend for themselves. Self-empowerment is great. But I gotta ask you: with what weapons & with what support is the child gonna fight? I don't think it takes being left alone in the sandbox to know that the world is a cold place. But as parents & educators, they blew it.
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@AsifIcarebear3 No I didn't make that logical leap. If you're gonna deal, deal with what I said, not what you think I said. Capice? You seem to think about physical weapons. I'm talking about intellectual weapons. You guys aren't getting it.
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@Ibis333 When did I blame the victim? I've continually said there's blame to go around. I've stated that the bullies bear some onus. But so to the teachers. So does her mental illness. And so do her parents. Don;t put words in my mouth.
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@Fleursdelily I'm saying all that to say that it's an extrememly bad premise to say that someone else forced her to kill herself. Evidently her support system failed her. But again, not all people, whose support systems fail the, end up committing suicide. Her aunt & mother needed to take steps to get her out of that situation. Also, at what point do we use some blunt honesty & say, "perhaps Phoebe was just tired of living". It's cold. But it makes more sense to me than "bullies made me do it".
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@Fleursdelily I never said they didn't harbor some blame. I said that she, her parents & the other adults in the environment harbored some of the same blame. As for bullying causing "serious psychological issues", I ain't buying it; at least not totally. It causes a wide range of effects. You say she was "ashamed". I say she was a li'l off in the 1st place.
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@Ibis333 Okay. I can get down with that. I'm just of the frame of mind that using them as a red herring for her suicide isn't reasonable. BUT, holding them accountable for stalking, harassment & battery is perfectly reasonable. I'm not so sure about charging them as adults though. I'm not gonna make the "kids will be kids" argument. But I will say that kids don't know what they're doing. Rather, they don't know the far-reaching effects of shit they do.
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@MsHeatOfPassion Stop trolling.
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@xlibra15 The problem with your argument is that the girl actively killed HERSELF. A drunk driver is actively, although non-maliciously, hurting someone else. There's a difference between taking a gun & killing someone versus creating a "climate" that makes someone wanna kill herself.
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@AsifIcarebear3 And the "been working all along" premise isn't useful either. Why? Because it didn't work for her. Also, you can't assume that your perception of what "works" is absolute.
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In society do bullies kill people? Yes. So that's a dumb premise on your part. What I'm saying is that you can't heap all the blame on 1 target in this instance. And spare me your social Darwinist shit too. Humans take care of each other. That's how it goes. We don't just say, "you don't get to live 'cause you're weak". And no, you can't just flat-out blame the girl. For 1, she wasn't an adult. For 2, she obviously needed some. For those 2 reasons, she wasn't competent enough to blame.
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@Fleursdelily It's amusing that you'd construct that kind of fallacy to gain traction. But I'm not buying it. Irrespective of all that though, the fact is that SHE killed HERSELF. No 1 put a gun to her temple & squeezed the trigger; SHE did. Also, not every victim of intimidation (or physcial battery) kills himself. As I stated before, some people actually push back, some solve it the "right way" & yes, some even run.
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@Fleursdelily No. They picked on her & she made the decision by herself. That's not to say that I don't feel for that girl. That's not to qualify or validate those bullies' behavior. But let's be honest, not every kid that's bullied commits suicide. Some kids fight back. Some kids run. Some kids get aurthorities involved. Self-preservation is the strongest instinct that living entities have. To presume that someone "made" her go against her own instincts is a lousy premise.
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@Fleursdelily I'm no stranger to depression. Either way, the main 1 who should've cared is the 1 who killed herself. I'm not sanguine about it. I'm just not placing all the blame on the bullies. I contend that she already had psychological issues. Yes, the bullies may have pushed her over the edge. But how did she get to that edge? Where were her parents? Ultimately, if you say she wasn't old enough to be considered competent, then her bullies of the same age must be treated the same way.
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@Fleursdelily So if you agree that she made a decision then you're starting to understand my point about the balance of onus. I know depression all too well. I've suffered from mild-to-moderate depression for my entire life; I got lead poisoning a few times as a child. But I also know about being a fighter. I also know about having responsible parents. No. You can't just snap out of it. But hanging one's self is still beyond the pale in my opinion.
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@Ibis333 I agree that bullying is wrong & there needs to be stiffer laws in place. At the same time though, I can't just blame the bullies. For 1, it's parents' responsibility to protect their kids. The parents dropped the ball.
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@Fleursdelily You're missing it. What I'm saying is that scapegoating the bullies isn't any smarter than blaming the girl. The adults are the main culprits here. Don't give me excuses about facebook or text messages. You & I both know those are 2 easily remedied problems. You're not looking at the deeper issue here: parent & teacher negligence.
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@MsHeatOfPassion Shut up.
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@irisrenaissance If there weren't other schools, you'd have a point. But there are. Kids also get homeschooled. Your notion of "compulsory" needs a little work.
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@Fleursdelily As far as how much hell goes, she could've told an adult. She could've started cutting class. She could've latched onto a boyfriend. She could've figured out how to graduate early. Could'ves are in endless supply here. All that said, we can't just scapegoat the bullies. Yes, they harbor some responsibility for terrorizing the girl. BUT, we can't honestly say that suicide was her only exit route and therefore her tormentors are the only hook on which to hang guilt.
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@MsHeatOfPassion Shut up. Troll elsewhere.
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@AsifIcarebear3 I think everyone has a right to live. That whole "only the strong" premise doesn't work because we're not out in the wild. Aside from that, try telling that to someone else's kid & see how far that gets you. BUT, I don't place all the blame on the bullies. I blame the parents, the teachers & the girl's own level of mental illness.
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