Comments by "ish" (@ish4638) on "Hunter Vs Vegan: Can You Kill Animals And Love Them? | Agree To Disagree | LADbible" video.

  1. This is the thing soooo many "anti vegans" ignore lmfao
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  2.  d darko  yes, this is true. But the land used to grow this food for livestock, not to mention the land destroyed in order to create fields and factories, adds up to far more than what a vegan uses.
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  3. 😂
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  4. True!
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  5.  @autisticguitar666  dairy...
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  6. Bruh. You're wishing painful death on a billion people.
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  7. The only reason some people eat meat is the fact that they aren't brave enough to give up meat, dairy and eggs. They don't have the moral or scientific arguments, they're stubborn.
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  8. Why? Why do you assume that slaughter is okay, providing we aren't killing humans? Isn't that just an example of speciesism?
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  9. Because that's not psychopathic 🙃
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  10.  @lordseaworth6055  the hunter literally cut Ed off every time he was proving her wrong.
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  11. First, it's not infinite. Second, being on a non vegan diet kills the most plants. You eat fruits, vegetables and grains too, and livestock need to be fed.
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  12.  @FalconfromRF  so let's decrease the amount of intensive farming we do, by going vegan.
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  13.  @FalconfromRF  often, but not always. I believe it's around 40% of crops that are fed to livestock? Plus, of course, damaged land in the industry already present.
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  14. How many vegans have you met, exactly?
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  15. Plants have no brain, CNS or pain receptors. So, no. They do, however, respond to certain stimuli by (as an example) sending chemicals to a damaged part of the organism. But this isn't synonymous with feeling pain. Humans send blood to our core in cold temperatures, but it isn't a conscious decision. We don't think "okay, I'm going to send blood to my internal organs now", it's just what our bodies are wired to do naturally. And the same thing happens with plants, fungi, etc. In addition, you really can't say that vegans are unethical for killing plants when you do so more than us. You eat plants too, and livestock consume more crops yearly than humans do. In short: plants do respond to certain stimuli in the same way that humans respond to to them. But they biologically can't feel the pain or the emotions that we would in a similar situation, because of the structure of the organisms.
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  16. Any nutrients you can get from meat, you can get from plants.
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  17. Yes, she is.
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  18.  @cpljoshrayperson3429  but you don't need meat to live.
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  19.  @dutchvanderlinde2067  I'm not. You asked a question, I andwered it. And you're in the comments section of a video anout veganism: there's gonna be vegans here.
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  20. But YOU do have a choice.
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  21. and they call us crazy... we just eat plants... no screams...
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  22.  @nicholasplesko533  ok weirdo 😂
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  23. See, that's just a little bit psychopathic
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  24. All protein originally comes from plants...
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  25. Because we do have a sense of morality. Most people do know that mass slaughtering animals who want to live is morally wrong, few people act on it.
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  26.  @kingswaddy2436  Just because you want to do something, it doesn't mean you should.
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  27. Ted Bundy probably liked murder. Does that make it okay?
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  28. I love snakes; they're so cool :) I rescue animals, and I get snakes more than most others.
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  29. True. But the thing is, meat is worse. This is because livestock need somewhere to live, but their food needs to be grown too. Livestock consume more plants yearly than humans do.
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  30. You kill more plants, therefore more aphids and rodents, than vegans. What do you think livestock eat?
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  31. I make a lot of food which I guess is sort of Indian!
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  32. Nope, you kill more animals. Livestock eat more crops yearly than humans.
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  33. Agreed! Also, hunters often shoot their natural predators like golden eagles, meaning the birds are close to extinction.
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  34. Animals people now eat are generally bred at incredibly unnatural rates. If we stopped eating them, their populations would decrease then level out.
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  35. Seriously, the woman's arguments were all bs.
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  36. I think, in a lot of cases, stubornness is a huge obstacle. As a species, we already generally hate being proved wrong. When the ethics of something we were brought up doing are brought into question, so many people panic, and stop at nothing to defend their actions. Meat eaters often know exactly what goes on in slaughterhouses, and they know that meat isn't healthy. They just can't bear to admit it. It's a real shame though. I hope more people go vegan in the future.
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  37. As long as you're not killing animals, I'm happy!
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  38. Preach
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  39. Wow, such a useful and gripping argument.
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  40.  @urbanobstacles  obviously. But we kill fewer.
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  41.  @urbanobstacles  if you're talking about crop deaths, more animals are killed by meat eaters in this sense too. Livestock, per annum, consume around half of our crops and grains produced. Not to mention land destroyed for farms.
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  42. Right, right. Kill animals instead of not killing them.
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  43. I just don't see how on earth you can murder an innocent animal and say you respect it. Especially when you don't need it for food.
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  44. Bruh. First, he isn't. Scientifically. Second, there are malnourished meat eaters too.
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  45.  @katherineminor3402  first, just clearing up that mushrooms are living, but are not plants (which is what the original comment was about). Second argument: true, but veganism causes the least death of any diet.
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  46.  @gabrielm.lamaswala4571  you said hunting makes us human to begin with. In a scientific or historical sense, it actually does not. And we may be statistically weaker than we were 2000 years ago, but that's because less of our literal survival is pinned on the ability to hunt, run, etc.
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  47.  @jirenthegray792  a lot of these aren't lies mate. I've been vegan for ages, and am miles healthier than I was before.
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  48.  @dutchvanderlinde2067  you saying that you're a beef farmer takes away any validity your arguments have. You're biased.
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  49. we literally don't. And rabbits eat mainly grass in the wild.
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  50. OH SO MUCH TOXIC MASCULINITY....
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  51.  @Balkancuga  yeah, not really. I'm pretty sure if anyone's brainwashed, it's meat eaters.
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  52.  @lordseaworth6055  we don't kill the snakes, we safely remove and release them.
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  53.  @marcramirez2093  low calorie foods like many plants can be great, because you have more room to get in other essential nutrients. Meat eaters on the other hand… well, 95% of the US is fibre deficient, because it's difficult to get enough fibre on a more meat focused diet. And I notice you didn't provide a link showing that eating plant based is bad for your bones? Or proving that ANY oils produced by the body can only come from eating meat? A plant based diet, in fact, has been shown to reverse heart disease and cancer: https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-magazine/nutrition/ask-the-expert/plant-based-diets https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/in-depth/how-plant-based-food-helps-fight-cancer/art-20457590 Please note these sites aren't about veganism either; both are medical.
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  54.  @marcramirez2093  you do need plants to be healthy. Otherwise you have no chance of getting several essential nutrients, including, for example, fibre (in fact, over 90% of meat eaters are fibre deficient. But I digress). Also, plants do not have the biological capacity to feel anything, due to a lack of pain receptors and a CNS. And even if they did feel pain, you kill more than me. Livestock consume a vast quantity of crops and grain, including 70% of all soy products grown. And I can assure you, I will never be trapped in the wild with an edible animal. That's such a laughably invalid argument, because it just won't happen. And I don't live in the city: I'm still 100% vegan. You are literally trying to justify slaughter. Killing of sentient beings. And for the pure reason that you like meat, and that we ate it in the past.
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  55. And yet you anti vegans think that you are better than cows... and that dogs are better than pigs...
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  56. And I'm sure Ted Bundy thought murder was fun. Doesn't make it okay.
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  57. Agreed! Another issue with the argument is that people breed livestock way faster than they'd reproduce naturally.
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  58. He is vegan. He has been for around 8 years. Barely anyone is vegan from birth.
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  59. Livestock actually cause more crop deaths than vegans, through fodder crops and land cleared for farming.
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  60.  @justasimpleengineer96  mate, you're probably fibre defiecient and I'm willing to bet you've never even been tested for deficiencies.
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  61.  @justasimpleengineer96  why does the fact that regular people own them make them worthy of life, when other animals deserve to die at 5 years old?
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  62. But we don't have to kill animals in the first place.
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  63.  @bradleywells2697  our sense of morality generally tells us that mass slaughter is not acceptable. It's just that very few people act on this.
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  64.  @othmane0313  oh, like the ones caused primarily by the meat, dairy and egg industries?
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  65.  @RcH94  nope, I'm recovering from anorexia, soooo...
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  66.  @RcH94  I've been vegan for 10 years... still haven't died...
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  67.  @RcH94  you literally said that incisors are meant for meat in the original comment 🙄 And just because we can, doesn't mean we should.
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  68. Reeeeee, look at my proportionally tiny teeth that couldn't break the skin of a cow! They make me an APEX PREDATOR!
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  69. Why thank you. The cows are only a little dead.
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  70. Populations will not explode. Cows, pigs, sheep, etc. are bred to reproduce way faster than they would naturally, with females being kept almost constantly pregnant. Were everyone to switch to veganism, populations would quickly decrease before levelling out. And deer populations, at least in the UK, are decreasing, along with those of the deers' natural predators (some eagles, buzzards). There are no nutrients that you can get on a meat based diet that you can't get on a plant based one (fun fact: most non vegans are fibre deficient). Most protein comes originally from plants anyway, and fats are easy to come by in certain oils. Obviously plants can't sustain every animal, but humans can easily maintain a vegan lifestyle. We also evolved having slaves, starting wars, contributing to global warming and committing homicide. If you want to continue going by that, then I'm concerned for the planet. We also didn't evolve to eat meat; if we did our teeth would be far sharper. Obviously lions and wolves should still eat meat, because they actually have to, and don't have the same moral values as people.
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  71. B R U H
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  72.  @eponaalbion  I recommend these studies: they were actually written in the past decade, so might be genuinely valid. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10408398.2016.1138447 https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/103/1/153/4569296
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  73.  @casualcrusader1627  but we have a sense of morality, and don't necessarily need meat to survive. Lions don't have clear 'morals', and need meat.
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  74.  @casualcrusader1627  you kill more plants than I do. What do you think livestock eat? And the animals are (a) often kept in bad conditions and (b) killed by the time they are a few years old. Would it be okay if I killed every 3 year old dog, if they weren't "tortured" first?
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  75. First off, plants can't feel pain. They have no pain receptors, brain, or CNS. Thay don't have the biological capacity to feel pain. Second, this is an argument against meat eaters more than it is against vegans. Meat eaters kill animals and plants, vegans only really kill plants.
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  76. Honestly when people start moving into caves, it's just natural selection.
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  77.  @gandaruvu  so would it be okay for me to kill and eat your dog, providing I did it in a 'modern' way? Not to mention bad conditions, and mothers are taken from their calfs.
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  78. We shouldn't eat meat because we have complex personalities. We have a sense of morality; lions less so. And we don't need meat to survive.
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  79. If you're referring to the thing where people took blood samples from a cow and turned it into meat, I would support it providing NO harm is caused. Not even some injection. Also, the animals would still probably be kept in captivity.
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  80. My dude. The most notorious assassins and serial killers just wanna kill people. Nazis want to slaughter the majority of the population. That doesn't make it right.
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  81.  @Crow-sj6sf  it is. The nutrient itself is simply an acid. While it is mainly found in meat and other animal products, it can be acquired on a plant based diet. In addition, there's nothing unhealthy about taking supplements. Still waiting for 15 nutrients missing from my diet.
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  82. Agreed. The hunter was not a good debater, from any perspective.
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  83. I'll respect others' ways of life when those ways of life don't cause excess harm.
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  84.  @gutbuster678  name a nutrient, vitamin or macronutrient which you can't get from plants. Also, 100 animals per person. idk about the other vegans I know, but I feel great knowing that I've saved 100 animals yearly.
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  85. Any nutrients you can get from meat, you can get from plants too. And of course more people need to go vegan. However, one person going vegan saves around 100 animals yearly.
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  86. Yes, the bible says that it's okay to eat meat. The bible also advertises homophobia.
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  87. There's also some golden eagles left (who occasionally eat young deer). Unfortunately, hunters aren't exactly helping them either.
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  88. Wow, what an intellectual.
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  89.  @USAF-mt1tu  There's these things called plants. You can eat them... And there has been little evidence showing that meat consumption has actually made us human. Also, you do not individually need to uphold Darwinism.
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  90. You are still killing animals that want to live. You can't morally justify that.
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  91.  @zer0edgy952  what makes you superior to them? Is it okay for me to kill puppies then?
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  92.  @zer0edgy952  other animals don't have a sense of morality, but we do. Also humans are animals, why do we need different rights from cows and pigs?
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  93. The difference is that plants can't feel. Cows can.
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  94.  Juba  it's not worse when it contributes to less sufferng. It's not as good as veganism, but it's better than eating meat.
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  95.  Juba  ...
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  96. Here :)
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  97. See, that just gives me sociopath vibes.
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  98. No, of course not (in most circumstances). But unnecessarily killing animals who don't need or want to die infers that you don't love them.
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  99.  @tjruckiis6264  seriously, why do non-vegans do this and call it a debate?
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  100.  @lordseaworth6055  when he proves them totally wrong.
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  101. Livestock cause more crop deaths than vegans do. Around half of our crops grown are fed to livestock, plus grains and land cleared for farming.
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  102. Because he's vegan? Ok boomer
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  103.  @rtipsy2243  And I'm not saying you're wrong, or right. All I'm saying is that you kill more of every species than vegans.
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  104. You kill more animals than a vegan, through fodder crops (plants grown specifically to be fed to animals).
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  105. I love how people say that it's okay to eat cows and pigs, it's barbaric to euthanize a dog, but it's 'extreme' not to kill anything.
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  106. How do you mean?
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  107. But why speed up the process for the cows, sheep, pigs, chickens and deer?
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  108. Meat eaters kill more plants, through fodder crops and land destroyed for farming.
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  109. You kill more crops, thus more rodents and insects, than vegans do. And the snake on a plane thing: that just wouldn't happen. Those kinds of arguments don't make sense.
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  110. Bruh. Lions (a) don't have ethical values is the same way we do and (b) need meat to live.
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  111. ...?
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  112. it's also technically not natural so much as something we've always done.
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  113. How is whether something is "natural" (in the loose definition of the word) or not an immediate indicator on whether we should do it?
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  114. Which points are you referring to, exactly?
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  115. You're just so not funny.
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  116.  @tomutomo3701  you're totally ignoring the fact that you are being hypocritical. You, as a meat eater, kill more plants than we do. And, regarding the first point: animals feel both physical and emotional pain. To kill an animal is to a. hurt it and b. take it from its family.
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  117. 1. Plants don't feel pain. 2. Non vegans kill more plants than vegans. 3. We can't survive by eating only salt.
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  118. Actually, our digestive system is far more suited to plants that meat.
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  119. Some people think that human meat is delicious and satisfying. That doesn't make it right. And it is possible to eat cheaply on a plant based diet, providing you know where to look.
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  120.  @maverick5989  you understand that most people can't hunt, correct? And many can't buy more expensive organic foods. At the end of the day, you're still supporting the slaughter of animals that want to live.
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  121.  @maverick5989  we can make it so that shopping isn't "part of a capitalist system". Because it's not, for the most part. And you use shops too, so I don't see the point here. The issue is that you are contributing to the mass slaughter of sentient being.
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  122.  @lordseaworth6055  wrong morally you dolt.
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  123.  @lordseaworth6055  again, you're only saying that because you can't bear to admit that you're wrong.
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  124. Some don't feed them meat (which, in general, I am against). Instead, they will provide supplements. The issue is that, while these supplements meet the nutritional necessities of the animals, it's very unnatural.
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  125. Nope. In fact, livestock eat more plants in a year than humans do.
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  126. He said he ate meat for nearly 21 years.
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  127.  @justasimpleengineer96  again, source?
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  128.  @justasimpleengineer96  that was short term, not long term. It just wouldn't happen again. Also, I'd love to see a source?
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  129.  @justasimpleengineer96  they would. Obviously. That's kind of the whole point: they'd become wild, and reproduce less. Also, chickens are technically a subspecies of a pre existing bird.
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  130.  @justasimpleengineer96  sill, technically, wild. At least more so than the animals I'm talking about; cows, pigs, and sheep.
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  131.  @justasimpleengineer96  in this case we're not talking about wild animals. We are talking about farm pigs, sheep, and cows.
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  132. b r u h
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  133.  @mello.b3373  Dude, give it up.
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  134. When you began to kill sentient animals for taste preferences.
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  135. Insert images of beans, peas, tofu, broccoli, lentils, almonds, pistachios, oats, flax seeds, pumpkin seeds, cashews, sunflower and chia seeds, tempeh, Brussels sprouts...
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  136.  @briocheman21  first, what if other humans were born without the same intelligence as us? Would it be okay to kill them? Would it be okay to slaughter thousands of cats and puppies, since they're not as intelligent as an adult human? Second, you literally are, biologically, an animal.
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  137.  @briocheman21  we. Are. Animals. Bro.
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  138. And that, kids, is how to immediately lose a debate.
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  139.  @briocheman21  so are humans
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  140. And Ted Bundy thought murder was fun. Doesn't make it right.
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  141. I disagree: chickens are a subspecies of the red junglefowl with the real name 'feral junglefowl'. Similar can be said for cows and sheep; the subspecies wouldn't survive, but the species would.
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  142.  @o-rang9137  you know what's funny?You probably never even watched the video, or fully read and fact checked my reply.
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  143.  @o-rang9137  Of course they are killed in plant agriculture. But non vegans increase the agriculture in question. Let me explain. Animals need to eat too. Livestock especially, because they are bred to produce unnatural amounts of products (milk, meat, etc.) It has been proven, scientifically, that more plants are eaten by livestock per year than the entire human race. Were everyone to go vegan, we could hypothetically end world hunger several times over, just by distributing the crops that they would eat. Couple articles you could check out (actually read them if you're going to reply): @t @t
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  144. There's like 80,000 edible plant species. Ya'll really be eating the same 5 animals?
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  145. *They're
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  146. He just doesn't want to mass slaughter animals...
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  147.  @klaw3397  I love how you people always say vegans force their views on others, and then proceed to force their views on others.
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  148. You understand that not everyone is religious?
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  149.  @aniccax6953  just ironic.
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  150.  @aniccax6953  also, a lot of vegans grow their food. Still saying they eat poison? And crops in shops aren't even dangerous: I've been vegan for ages, no health problems. Heck, Jon Venus has been eating plant based for longer than me, and he's probably fitter than you.
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  151.  @aniccax6953  mate, you aren't either. That story about getting "very sick"? Likely untrue. Also, you'd have to be INCREDIBLY overweight to call "losing 50kg" good. Not to mention the fact that you've probably never even been tested for deficiencies. And you literally should think about calories, to make sure you don't have too many or too few.
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  152.  @aniccax6953  imagine calling someone scientifically illiterate and not being able to spell "ludicrous".
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  153.  @aniccax6953  yeah, we're not going to get anywhere with you calling the WHO a "beauracratic institution". But just wait until you get sick: I assume you won't stop them from taking care of and giving advice to you.
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  154.  @aniccax6953  if you were to actually watch, say, Mic the vegan's videos, you'd see that he provides scientific studies in the description. The WHO has labelled red meat as directly causing cancer. Group 1 carcinogen. https://www.cancercouncil.com.au/1in3cancers/lifestyle-choices-and-cancer/red-meat-processed-meat-and-cancer/ https://www.nhs.uk/news/cancer/processed-meat-causes-cancer-warns-who-report/ https://www.who.int/westernpacific/news/q-a-detail/q-a-on-the-carcinogenicity-of-the-consumption-of-red-meat-and-processed-meat https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-34615621 All repeating essentially the same thing, none are veganism based websites. So you can hardly call these propaganda. And for the record I've been vegan for 10 years and am literally far healthier. I'm no longer deficient in any nutrients, recovering from an eating disorder, and am a generally much happier person.
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  155.  @aniccax6953  just read this, then provide your own links: https://blog.nurserylive.com/2016/06/13/meat-eaters-actually-kill-more-plants-than-vegetarians-do-and-gardening-in-india http://www.skoolofvegan.com/harvesting-crops-kills-animals-too.html
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  156. Ignoring the rest wrong here, more crops are killed in livestock production than in production of plant based foods. Arpund half of all the crops we grow are fed to livestock, plus land cleared for things like farms.
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  157.  @brians1793  are you going to prove anything you're saying? Because not one vegan speaks like this. And I'm not sick. I've actually been tested for nutrient deficiencies, probably unlike you. Also bear in mind that no nutrients are entirely unavailable on a plant based diet.
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  158.  @brians1793  no vegan says this! Can you show me ONE VEGAN saying they're no longer part of the world's problems?
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  159.  @brians1793  and please bear in mind you are linking sources by the same person. Pretty biased. If you want me to believe anything you say, at least find a recent article.
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  160. I also recommend the following reports studying the relationship between veganism, meat, and heart disease/cancer, and just the health in general of plant based diets. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10408398.2016.1138447?scroll=top&needAccess=true https://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/22/2/286.short https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0306987714002497 https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/proceedings-of-the-nutrition-society/article/health-effects-of-vegetarian-and-vegan-diets/1B1F779BC279BE2F632C48F5BDB4DF64
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  161.  @brians1793  okay, so you're been saying that a miniscule group of vegans are bad, therefore all vegans are. I might as well say that all meat eaters are bad because Ted Bundy ate meat too. It's just nonsense. And there are no nutrients missing on an actually balanced plant based diet: it's worth bearing in mind that 95% of Americans are deficient in fibre, because it is so difficult to get on a diet so focused on meat and dairy. Many of the stats you commented on were untrue: if you're going to deny this, I expect a recent article proving you right. Creatine is also completely unnecessary: lack of creatine will result in a slight loss in water and no muscle loss whatsoever.
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  162.  @brians1793  okay. First, if you're going to claim that thousands of people said this, I expect at least a few links. But none of us were saying the only way was to go vegan. You are speaking about a tiny percentage of vegans, and expecting me to believe that it's all of us.
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  163.  @brians1793  no vegan is saying the only way to stop forest fires is to go vegan... you're literally making stuff up and twisting our words.
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  164.  @DefinitelyNotSemi  ew
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  165.  @-juliuscaesarzeppeli--yuri9010  that's a rare occurrence.
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  166.  @ynghuch  you see similar in the US mate. But I can assure you we mass breed and mass slaughter animals in the UK too.
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  167.  @tobyl.1703  okee
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  168.  @elyosavi  she still buys dairy, leather, and eggs.
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  169. @hasslfoot she'll buy things like dairy, eggs, etc. from shops.
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  170.  @abayasugen8446  that's because it's his career. His job is protesting against meat eaters.
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  171. Kills cows, sheep, horses, dogs, rabbits, pigs, bees, etc. = totally fine Kills nothing = extremist ???
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  172. There's plenty, though most are hating on Ed lol
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  173.  @Relax4now  plants don't have a CNS or pain receptors, you kill more plants than vegans, bears are obligate carnivores.
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  174.  @Relax4now  it's not BIOLOGCALLY possible for them to feel pain. And you kill more than vegans theough fodder and land cleared for farming.
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  175.  @Relax4now  let's take a hypothetical situation. Suppose I show you a puppy and a blade of grass, and I tell you that you need to kill one of them. Like any sane human being, I'm going to assume you'd kill the blade of grass. Because you know as well as I do that plants don't feel pain, they simply respond to certain stimuli. Also, meat eaters are responsible for the deaths of more plants than vegans are, so you'd be being hypocritical even if plants did feel.
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  176.  Uptown Rider  wow. Okay. Lt's go through this. Our bodies are not "designed to eat meat". Far from it, in fact. There are a lot of factors in judging whether an animal is primarily herbivorous, omnivorous, or carnivorous. To list just a few: Intestine length ● Carnivores: 2 to 5 X body length. ● Omnivores: 1.25 to 10 X BL ● Herbivores: 7 X BL ● Humans: 7 X BL Colon ● C: simple, short, smooth ● O: short & smooth OR medium & sacculated ● He: long & complex, may be sacculated ● Hu: long and sacculated Jaw joint location ● C: same plane as molars ● O: same plane as molars ● Herb: above plane of molars ● Hu: above plane of molars Jaw Motion ● C: slicing, minimal side to side ● O: slicing, minimal side to side ● He: no slicing, good side to side, front to back motion ● Hu: no slicing, good side to side, front to back motion Incisors ● C: short and pointed ● O: short and pointed ● He: broad, flattened, spade-like ● Hu: broad, flattened, spade-like Molars ● C: sharp, jagged, blade-shaped ● O: sharp or flattened ● He: flattened ● Hu: flattened Canines ● C: sharp, long, curved ● O: sharp, long, curved ● He: dull & short OR long OR none ● Hu: short and blunted Saliva ● C: small parotid, mucous submandibular saliva ● O: small parotid, seromucous submandibular saliva ● He: large parotid, mostly serous submandibular saliva ● Hu: large parotid, mostly serous submandibular saliva Amylase (Digests Carbohydrates) ● C: Do not produce amylase ● O: Varies depending on species ● He: Varies depending on species ● Hu: produce amylase Synthesis of taurine/creatine/carnitine ● C: do not synthesise any of them ● O: depends on species ● He: synthesise all of them ● Hu: synthesise all of them And people often do drugs when they're drunk mate. Does that immediately mean we all need to consume cocaine?
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  177.  Uptown Rider  you still eat dairy and eggs, I assume, but I digress. Most store bought animal products are incredibly unhealthy. All animal products contain cholesterol. And there are vegans who only eat food they grow.
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  178.  Uptown Rider  it's full of cholesterol, and unhealthy animal proteins.
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  179. Sorry, I'm bad at explenations 😂
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  180. They're made for tough plants
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  181. You might as well say that murder is okay. So what if people are dying?  What I do in my spare time isn't anyone's business except mine.
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  182. And yet I've been vegan for years. Still haven't died.
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  183. He died of a hemorrhagic stroke. A  is when blood from an artery begins bleeding into the brain. This happens when a weakened blood vessel bursts and bleeds into the surrounding brain. Pressure from the leaked blood damages brains cells, and, as a result, the damaged area is unable to function properly.
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  184. Yes, because diet automatically determines weight, with no other factors. Eat meat, and you'll immediately be healthy. Like me! I was anorexic when I ate meat!
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  185.  @mello.b3373  if it is possible to reduce suffering in this world, then I will do so. Your arguments are weak, not to mention copy pasted. Spamming doesn't make you look any more intelligent. And some of the things you say deny science, not opinions.
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  186.  @tubble3058  why on earth is it a problem to protest against exploitation?
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  187.  @tubble3058  I'm really not an extremist. I'm just not okay with exploitation and animal cruelty.
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  188.  @tubble3058  on behalf of every vegan ever, we're not offended by your breakfast. We, however, do not think you are doing yourself any favours in the getting laid department.
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  189. Imagine exploiting animals for Food. lol
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  190. You're vegan?
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  191.  @aaronlanders95  bruh. I'm a nutritionist.
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  192.  @aaronlanders95  I am a healthy weight. And doctors actually won't tell you to include meat. And guess what? HUMANS AREN'T LIONS. Why do you people always bring up lions?
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  193. K, there's a lot to unpack here. First, we don't eat the animals' food. Because there are very few animals who eat, for example, sweet potato in the wild. Second, livestock consume more crops yearly than people. If everyone went vegan, we could end world hunger multiple times over. Third, our canines are, biologically speaking, meant for tough plants. They could not, realistically, break through the skin of a cow. You know who else has canines? Gorillas. Some of the most powerful herbivorous animals. Finally, we do not need meat to survive. There are millions of vegans and vegetarians around the world who prove that. Oh, also? If you're going to make an argument, learn grammar.
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  194. No need to be disgustingly ableist.
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  195. How?
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  196. Says the person promoting the murder of cows, chickens, pigs, sheep...
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  197. OMG, you're his personal professional nutritionist with specific data on his weight, height, and general health?
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  198.  @davidloza9316  your teeth do not determine what we eat, your digestive system does. Gorillas have sharper teeth than us, and they barely eat meat. Also, our teeth are tiny compared to those of omnivorous mammals, like grizzly bears and foxes.
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  199. Just because we've done something in the past, doesn't mean we have to keep going. We kept slaves in the past: we changed. Second, let's ise milk as an example. A cow has to give birth to produce dairy. When this happens, the calf is always taken away. Not to mention forced impregnation. Also, the animals are killed years before they'd die naturally.
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  200.  Giggity Giggity  that's not what happens to the animals you eat, and the animal itself couldn't make that choice.
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  201.  Giggity Giggity  see, this just seems psychopathic.
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  202.  @mello.b3373  dude, you're just wrong. First, you can't say that morals aren't real. By saying that, you advocate for serial killers and child molesters. We do not, biologically, need meat to live. There are thousands of vegans, many in far better shape than you.  There are plenty of scientific studies proving the health benefits of a vegan diet; I'll link there at the end of my comment. Also, you're going to need to link the studies showing that eating meat enhances intelligence. Btw, I have an IQ of 133 and got a scholarship to Cambridge University. All on a vegan diet. Links showing health benefits of being plant based: https://www.peta.org.uk/living/vegan-health-benefits/ https://www.webmd.com/diet/features/is-it-better-to-be-a-vegetarian#1 https://www.rush.edu/health-wellness/discover-health/health-benefits-vegan-diet https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/vegan-diet-benefits#section1 I highly recommend this one, as it has stong basis in biological studies, which are linked. It is also clearly unbiased, as opposed to, for example, the PETA link: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/149636#benefits
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  203.  @OMGUKILLKENNY2  livestock are bred at incredibly unnatural speeds. The females remain pregnant for most of their short lives. If we were all to go vegan, the numbers of animals like cows would decrease, then level out.
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  204. Ugh. Plants don't feel anything. Just because it's instincive doesn't mean it's right. People literally won't take away crops. Religion might not be right, or history. You can!t respect an animal and unnecessarily kill it. There is no evidence of a 'god'.
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  205. Are you going to link a site? One that proves that the child died purely because of unpreventable disease due to veganism.
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  206.  @rajasaab2396  great argument. Well done.
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  207.  Uptown Rider  I want them to stop killing animals bro.
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  208.  Uptown Rider  oh, that wouldn't happen. Most people don't hunt, so they contribute to the mass farming of livestock. If this stopped, populations would actually decrease. And hunters don't help with overpopulation. First, they result in decreased numbers of animals that prey upon deer (i.e. large predatory birds). And the number of deer in an area corresponds with their chances of survival: in a safe area, deer won't have many children. In an unsafe one, they breed faster.
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  209. Such as? I'd love a timestamp.
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  210.  @lollol-go3jk  again, the killing of other sentient being isn't subjective. Subjective: based on or influenced by PERSONAL feelings, tastes, or opinions. Personal means it doesn't affect anyone else.
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  211.  @lollol-go3jk  you are so clearly a child, I'm not even going to bother. Stop trying to justify the dead young animal on your plate.
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  212.  @mello.b3373  Dude, I'm not. I'm recovering from anorexia, have no nutritional deficiencies, and am healthier than I have even been on a meat based diet.
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  213. I really feel like views can only be subjective when they don't harm anyone else. You can't call eating meat subjective, because you are killing sentient beings.
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  214. Oh shoot you really went and pulled an "all lives matter" on me smh
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  215. You kill more plants than I do. Livestock consume more crops than all humans, per annum. You pay for more livestock to be bred.
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  216. We kill less animals. Whether you're talking about livestock, rodents or apids, meat eater kill more animals the vegans.
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  217. Bryant Jennings
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  218.  @OscarTRob  I said "first, just clearing up that mushrooms are living, but not plants". As in, mushrooms are living, but they are not plants.
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  219.  @OscarTRob  no, I said that mushrooms aren't plants.
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  220. Plants can't feel pain, because they have no brain, CNS, or pain receptors. Even if they do feel pain, you kill more plants that vegans: livestock consume more crops yearly than all humans, so stop being a hypocrite. Finally, we can't survive without eating plants or animals, we'd only be able to eat mushrooms and salt.
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  221.  Pomfromoz  my dude. We are herbivores. There has been very little evidence suggesting correlation between meat consumption and the evolution resulting in humans. Our canines are tiny compared to our heads, and we evolved from mainly plant based mammals.
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  222.  @Mediamonkey11  I believe that you can call something "personal" when it doesn't negatively affect any other being. You are paying for hundreds of animals to be killed a year, just for you. We aren't saying it's the correct way of living, bu it is humane. It is compassionate. Mass slaughter cannot be described in either of these ways.
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  223. People are always saying that eating meat is a personal choice. But you're killing animals that want to live. That is anything but personal.
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  224.  @justasimpleengineer96  even if we are "weaker" because we "stopped" eating meat, that's hardly a bed thing. Less people get cancer now, so...
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  225.  @gabrielm.lamaswala4571  and if everyone hunted, the world would be even more of a mess.
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  226. There is little to no evidence showing that meat consumption has affected our evolution in any way. And I really don't think we've gotten psychologically or physically weaker. More mentally ill, perhaps. We don't need to be massively muscular. But it's really nothing to do with the fact that we eat less meat. Also gathering is literally plants.
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  227.  @justasimpleengineer96  mate, I'm healthy. I'd bet I'm healthier than most meat eaters. I've actually checked to see whether I have any deficiencies, and nope. None. And pretty much every other vegan I've spoken to agrees.
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  228.  @justasimpleengineer96  you can get B12 from algae, and supplementation is recommended by nutritionists even for people eating meat.
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  229.  @jirenthegray792  If you find a decent article or study, link it. If not, stop acting like you ever won a debate.
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  230.  @jirenthegray792  how do I deliberately choose to not have 100 spare dollars lol
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  231.  @jirenthegray792  as are you, my friend. Look, I'm fine discontinuing this conversation. But stop acting like I'm choosing to deliberately ignore you because you're right: I'm not, I'm just not... rich.
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  232.  @jirenthegray792  I don't like arguments that I need to pay for in order to even see, but arguments that prove me wrong are fine. Unfortunately, you haven't provided me with one that fits both.
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  233.  @jirenthegray792  look, why are you trying to turn this onto me? I don't get it lol. I mean, good job you have 100 dollars for textbooks and hours of time to study them, but some people don't.
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  234.  @jirenthegray792  sir, I told you. I don't have 50 dollars and hours of free time. If you really can't find a study online, then that's fine. But please don't twist this by saying I'm not interested in your points.
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  235.  @jirenthegray792  bye :) if you do manage to find a good study or article, i'd love to give it a read!
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  236.  @jirenthegray792  you gave two links. Both had childish titles. I want a detailed list of essential nutrients only available in meat. If it's so obvious, you can't say it's so difficult to find them. I'm totally interested in reading the books, but some people don't have 50 dollars and hours of free time to spare. The articles I provided specifically said that earing plant based can reverse heart disease and cancer. But hey, I tried. Bye.
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  237.  @jirenthegray792  the first links provided said nothing about specific essential nutrients, they were "lies vegans tell you". And I'm obviously not going to spend over 50 dollars on textbooks you've probably never read. Just give another link. It'll take a moment. If it's actually legitimate - and I mean made by a good medical website - then I'll reconsider. For now, I recommend you read these articles. They're about how a plant based diet can reverse cancer and heart disease: https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-magazine/nutrition/ask-the-expert/plant-based-diets https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4315380/ https://www.pcrm.org/health-topics/heart-disease https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/in-depth/how-plant-based-food-helps-fight-cancer/art-20457590 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3048091/
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  238.  @jirenthegray792  sir, I'd just like you to reply to this with the link to a verifiable medical site stating that a plant based diet will always be lacking in essential nutrients. If it's so true, then it should take you a minute tops to find a good source. And don't tell me to spend 50+ dollars on a textbook you've never even read again.
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  239.  @jirenthegray792  The fact that you still haven't linked a source...
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  240.  @jirenthegray792  I love how you're just so incapable of actually linking a study proving you right.
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  241.  @jirenthegray792  did you read the article about fibre deficiency in the US? It's not even a vegan focused website, it's based on medicine.
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  242.  @jirenthegray792  there are no missing nutrients when eating a healthy plant based diet. If you really think there are, name them and provide a link.
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  243.  @jirenthegray792  the fibre thing actually isn't a lie, if you look into it. Maybe read this? https://nutritionfacts.org/2015/09/29/where-do-you-get-your-fiber/ Basically confirming that a vast percentage of the US population is deficient in fibre.
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  244.  @jirenthegray792  your also ignoring one point: over 90% of meat eaters are actually deficient in fibre, because it's so difficult to get on a more meat focused diet.
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  245.  @jirenthegray792  your not reading me right. Those books are over ten years old. If it's such a "fact" that vegans are nutrient deficient, then it shouldn't be this difficult for you to link a decent source proving this.
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  246.  @jirenthegray792  the only links you ever provided were "lies vegans tell you". I want a verified medical study or website naming the essential nutrients it's impossible to get eating plant based.
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  247.  @jirenthegray792  there are exactly zero nitrients missing from a balanced plant based diet. If you disagree, please name them and provide a link.
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  248.  @jirenthegray792  veganism, for myself, is an ethical stance. So yes, I do believe that exploitation of animals is wrong. No, I don't think everyone will go vegan. And for the record, I am a healthy person. My health literally improved from when I went vegan, and I had deficiency in fibre before I stopped eating animals.
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  249.  @jirenthegray792  and our teeth don't show what we are supposed to eat. There is little evidence showing a correlation between meat and our evolution.
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  250.  @jirenthegray792  even if you don't support feeding certain grains to animals, you still contribute to habitat loss of wild animals. Also, the cholesterol found in many plant based foods is actually beneficial HDL cholesterol, whereas the cholesterol found in, for example, meat is extremely unhealthy. And I didn't say more land is cleared for slaughterhouses, I used it to build on the point that land is cleared for fields where cows are kept too. There are obviously issues with both ways of living, but a reduction in suffering is really the best we can do. I'd recommend reading these if you're actually open to change: https://blog.nurserylive.com/2016/06/13/meat-eaters-actually-kill-more-plants-than-vegetarians-do-and-gardening-in-india https://www.quora.com/If-vegetarians-are-trying-to-save-all-the-animals-then-why-are-they-eating-all-their-food
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  251.  @jirenthegray792  you're bringing up, in short, crop deaths. The issue with this is that livestock and livestock farming kill more plants, and thus more animals, than we do. Animals kept in order to be killed and eaten consume around forty percent of all crops and grains grown, not to mention deaths caused in clearing land for cow fields, slaughterhouses, etc. And oddly enough, there is very little evidence showing correlation between meat consumption and our evolution, and our teeth are in fact more suited to eating plants than meat. And that's all ignoring the excess cholesterol found in animal products, along with animal protein (proved less safe than plant protein) and animal estrogens.
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  252. What misinformation am I spreading when I say that it's wrong to mass slaughter sentient animals?
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  253. I guess it's because we are all stubborn. As a species, we hate being proved wrong.
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  254. yeah they are
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  255. How is saving animals and the environment weak?
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  256. How so?
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  257. If we stopped buying vegan products, the demand and thus the supply would decrease.
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  258. insert the dozens of times she interrupted Ed's points and yelled "that is so not true" in the middle of his sentences
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  259. ​ @Balkancuga  k, here goes: First point, about vegans being skinny. This isn't statistically true, there are many vegan bodybuilders and cross fitters.  The woman in this video was anything but calm: pretty much everyone, including non vegans, is agreeing on this point. The point about farmers killing animals in order for plants to be grown: meat eaters kill more plants than vegans, because livestock consume more crops yearly than all people on the planet.  Most vegans don't say meat tastes bad, we just don't want to eat dead animals. All protein originally comes from plants. Animals take time to grow too 🙄 And just because meat tastes good, doesn't make it okay to eat. Serial killers might say that murder is fun: doesn't make it morally acceptable.
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  260. Who exactly are you referring to 🙄
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  261. Wolves and lions have no sense of morality, and need meat to survive.
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  262.  @lordseaworth6055  I'm just correcting this woman's misinformation.
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  263. Mmm, excess cholesterol and dangerous animal protein, mmm.
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  264.  @vs2066  I'm sure Ted Bundy like murder. doesn't make it right.
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  265.  @vs2066  Bruh. You're refusing to debate because I'm a vegan. That's the most childish thing.
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  266.  @vs2066  Wow. Well you're a child.
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  267.  @vs2066  imagine acting as if your arguments are fair and then doing THAT lol. Can't think of anything?
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  268. I'm sorry, what ''strong points'' did this hunter make?
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  269. It's also technically natural to murder. In our species, war is natural. Just because something is natural, doen't mean it's morally okay.
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  270.  @mello.b3373  please link one scientific, verifiable study specifically stating that veganism is, in a fact, a mental illness. I ask just because I spent years studying psychology, and never once was veganism mentioned.
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  271. The problem isn't solved fam. You!re still killing animals.
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  272.  @janieswanson2549  prove it.
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  273. Well, I think Ed acted a little more respectful. But you're probably right, most debates I've seen end in shouting matches!
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  274.  @jacobm6428  now about I mass slaughter puppies and kittens?
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  275.  @jacobm6428  so it's okay to shoot and kill young deer instead of allowing them to live longer and die largely naturally? Also, I'm assuming you drink milk. And eat eggs. And wear leather.
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  276. First, wolves can be reintroduced. Second, there aren't coyotes in the UK. Third, buzzards and golden eagles eat young deer. Ther are in danger because of hunting.
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  277. We technically do, due to crop deaths, but we kill far less.
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  278.  @justasimpleengineer96  bruh. I'm honestly confused. Have you done any research?
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  279.  @justasimpleengineer96  bruh. There's a difference between authoritarian and libertarian communism.
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  280.  @justasimpleengineer96  ?
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  281. And this is wrong in two ways. First, I'm far from malnourished. You know who is a lot closer? Non vegan kids living in Africa with no food or clean water. Second, communism really wouldn't starve people. It would essentially redistribute money for poorer people to buy food.
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  282. B12 doesn't originally come from meat...
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  283. How exactly does he live in "lala land"?
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  284.  @mello.b3373  my dude, supplements exist. And you're probably missing fibre, given that 95% of Americans are. At the end of the day, I have had tests for deficiencies. You, I'm assuming, have not. And guess what? I'm no longer deficient in anything. How many people do you know who have died of protein deficiency? Now how many people do you know who have died of cancer?
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  285. Please, name these thirteen essential nutrients.
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  286.  @autisticguitar666  you only worry about GETTING FOOD. And about HAVING A HOME THE NEXT DAY. If you really want to go to the wild and live off potentially poisonous foods, go ahead. But don't expect anyone to come with you and stay.
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  287.  @autisticguitar666  again, living in the wild with nothing isn't simple.
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  288.  @autisticguitar666  there's a difference between minimalism and basic survival.
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  289.  @autisticguitar666  you go and live with nothing for a few years mate. If you like it, I'll be shocked.
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  290. I think what he meant was that living day to day survival, and only living until 40, was not enjoyable.
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  291. There are no nutrients only available on a meat based diet. Any nutrients or vitamins you can get on a non vegan diet, you can get on a plant based one. Also, over 90% of US citizens are fibre deficient. Because it's difficult to get in the correct quantities when your diet doesn't contain many plants.
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  292. First, Ed isn't underweight. You don't have to be a bodybuilder to be healthy. Second, weight is rarely a direct indicator of health. Third, I was non vegan for 13 years. In that time I got anorexia. You can be underweight on any diet. You can be overweight on any diet. Ed is neither.
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  293. I'm vegan :)
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  294. Ed's were; but hers were pretty ridiculous
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  295.  @justasimpleengineer96  supplements aren't bad, so why avoid them? You can't humanely kill an animal who wants to live.
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  296. Lions (a) are fully carnivorous and (b) do not have the same sense of morality that we do.
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  297. First, weight is not an indicator of health. Second, Ed's not underweight. Third, you can be underweight on a diet including meat.
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  298.  @benjaminwingchun9665   *they I've never done drugs I don't see my mother I'm not trolling, just asking for a link to the study you talked about. I've you're going to refer to any studies, you need to be able to source them. Otherwise, the part of your point referring to that study is entirely invalid.
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  299.  @benjaminwingchun9665  link please. I'm not going to do your own research for you.
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  300. Link please?
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  301. Ignoring the rest of the comment, our teeth don't determine what we are naturally supposed to eat: our digestive system does, as well as the things we ate in order to evolve. There has been little to no evidence proving that meat actually played any part in our evolution, and our digestive system is far more suited to plants than meat. And I feel like whether it's natural or not seems irrelevant. The word "natural" isn't a synonym for "ethical".
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  302. So you wouldn't care if I killed and ate your pet?
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  303.  @justasimpleengineer96  can dogs be? Cats?
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  304.  @justasimpleengineer96  that makes no sense. Would you be okay with me killing 20 year old people, provided it was "painless"?
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  305.  @justasimpleengineer96  look. You cannot say that it's okay to exploit and kill animals. It's just not.
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  306.  @justasimpleengineer96  I track what I eat and I get enough B12. See, the argument makes no sense. And you should ideally test for basically EVERY nutrient. Otherwise you won't ever know.
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  307.  @justasimpleengineer96  A few good articles/studies I read: https://www.vox.com/2019/3/20/18214505/fiber-diet-weight-loss https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6124841/ https://nutritionfacts.org/2015/09/29/where-do-you-get-your-fiber/ And you can't just assume with no testing that your diet is perfectly adequate regarding nutrients, then tell vegans who get tested that they're deficient. Spot the hypocrisy.
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  308.  @justasimpleengineer96  the opposite: I eat mainly organic, or grown in my garden. And have you really tested your fibre levels? Because I somehow doubt it. And even if you personally get enough, 95% of Americans do not.
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  309.  @justasimpleengineer96  and most meat eaters are relying on burgers that aren't produced naturally. And are fibre deficient. And have higher cholesterol levels.
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  310.  @justasimpleengineer96  nutritional yeast, tempeh, plant milks, mushrooms, seaweed, marmite and yeast spreads, soy milk, tofu, and very occasional supplements.
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  311.  @justasimpleengineer96  vegans don't "rely" on supplements, and I will hazard a guess that most vegans eat a balanced diet, based on the amount of research we need to do.
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  312. Nutritionists worldwide recommend supplements, and 95% of American citizens are deficient in fibre, likely because the standard American diet is so meat focused.
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  313. There have been plenty of studies showing that the consumption of meat didn't contribute to our evolution. And I wonder where America would be now, had we not had slaves...
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  314.  @mooselord2838  I just hate the way you're pretending that you can't physically stop eating meat. It's dumb, you're acting like the victim in the situation.
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  315.  @mooselord2838  dude, I'm just going to stop. You're acting as if you physically can't stop eating meat. I didn't think people could be that misinformed.
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  316.  @mooselord2838  but food craving is not addiction. A craving is a desire, an addiction is a neurological issue in the amygdala. Schizophrenia cannot be compared to liking a certain food. Eat less meat, and you'll crave it less.
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  317.  @mooselord2838  maybe research the difference between a medical addiction and a brief food craving.
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  318.  @mooselord2838  addictions aren't the same as craving a food bro.
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  319.  @mooselord2838  when you eat less of something, you crave it less. That's why people who go vegan for ages stop wanting to eat meat or drink milk. Watch Earthlings if you're actually interested in what goes on in slaughterhouses.
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  320. There is no proof that non vegans live longer. Quite the opposit, in fact: https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/do-vegans-live-longer We can't do much individually, but we can join the army. Becuase we do make a difference, however small.
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  321. Could you provide a link maybe? I'd love to read more about this :)
    1
  322. We can't have everyone hunting. It just isn't practical.
    1
  323. Says the guy who forgets a full stop and a capital letter.
    1
  324. Wow. That's such an impressive and original joke. Never been done before. Comedian of the year.
    1
  325. Animals kill other animals, but (a) they don't need to in order to live and (b) they don't mass farm and slaughter them in terrible conditions. Also, we have a strong sense of morality. Lions and wolves, less so. No comparison.
    1
  326. Oh look! An animal killer AND sexist!
    1
  327.  @marcramirez2093  maybe choose the diet that reverses heart disease and cuts out excess cholesterol and animal protein? https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-magazine/nutrition/ask-the-expert/plant-based-diets
    1
  328. Well, that's a shame. I'm sorry for the animals you will kill.
    1
  329. No it didn't lol
    1
  330.  @uncleruckus6261  Even so, they are still killed years before they'd die naturally, being taken from their mothers.
    1
  331.  @uncleruckus6261  How is mass killing animals not cruel?
    1
  332. Not really. It's animal cruelty.
    1
  333. Hurt that people exploit and mass slaughter innocent animals? Yup.
    1
  334. Nah, you couldn't.
    1
  335.  @brookenoel3838  yeah I think so lol
    1
  336. I think she means the lives lost in crop production (ridiculous, i know 😂)
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  337.  @user-jd5tu2eh6k  which is why I said 'the vast majority', not 'all'.
    1
  338. If you're on a phone or computer, you can afford veganism. I myself only spend around 60 US dollars on groceries per month, at most. If you live in a bit of a food desert, yes, it'll be difficult. But the vast majority can easily afford to switch to veganism.
    1
  339.  @Devilscepter  in order for any organism to feel pain, it needs pain receptors and a CNS. Plants don't have either of these things, and even if they did, meat eaters kill more. Plants do emit certain frequencies when damaged, but this is not pain so much as response to a stimulus. And again, if I told you you had to either kill a leaf or a puppy, I'm going to go right ahead and assume you picked the latter. And yes, pain is, in a sense, a part of life. But why deliberately increase it? If I say a child who hadn't lost a loved one yet, despite this being a "part of life", I would exactly kill their mother. Would you?
    1
  340. Take this hypothetical situation. I tell you that you eaither have to kill a puppy or a leaf. Like any sane person, I'm going to go ahead and assume you picked the leaf. Because you know perfectly well that plants don't feel pain. Also, meat eaters kill more plants, through crops fed to livestock.
    1
  341.  @edmundsage4480  you're entirely disregarding the word "subconsciously " 🙄 You are a beef farmer. You are therfore, in this case, going to be considered biased. Because denying it means nothing: you could be lying, or subconsciously biased.
    1
  342.  @edmundsage4480  of course you'd SAY that you aren't biased. But subconsciously, you always will be.
    1
  343. If you're a beef farmer, then you are obviously biased.
    1
  344. Large predatory birds eat small wild deer frequently.
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  345. Killed by hunters, directly and indirectly. We don't have many large eagles and other predators left.
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  346. Well, you know... you eat sheep legs...
    1
  347. Why would people object to wearing a possibly life saving piece of fabric?
    1
  348. She likely buys milk and eggs from shops, as well as leather products.
    1
  349. @Vincent H why not though? You're just being a clear example of speciesism.
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  350. @Vincent H what makes a cat's or dog's life worth so much more than a deer's or cow's?
    1
  351. @Vincent H so if I killed, say, your dog, you'd be fine? Even if that dog still had years to live and didn't want or need to die?
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  352. @Vincent H but if the things you eat cause excess suffering? Nope.
    1
  353. <3
    1
  354. No, you aren't.
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  355.  @prestige._motivation  please just try. It's not healthy to eat too much meat anyway, so maybe cut down more gradually.
    1
  356. - said every vegan, before going vegan
    1
  357. How does eating plants ruin the brain?
    1
  358.  @wildhappy_oof502  there's a lot lol, but I'd recommend this one: https://blog.nurserylive.com/2016/06/13/meat-eaters-actually-kill-more-plants-than-vegetarians-do-and-gardening-in-india It's written in a simple and clear way.
    1
  359.  @wildhappy_oof502  you kill more plants than I do. Livestock, per annum, consume more crops than the entire human population, thus causing more pollution, and insect and rodent deaths.
    1
  360. Are you going to prove it?
    1
  361.  @justasimpleengineer96  if a person cannot carry a child or take care of it, the child will likely die anyway. It's the choice of the parent, not you.
    1
  362.  @brentreid7031  I didn't. Where exactly do you get that from?
    1
  363.  @brentreid7031  I'll do anything that doesn't put me at risk in order to stop your mass slaughter.
    1
  364. If a person doesn't want, for whatever reason, to give birth, there will be a reason. The child will likely die under the care of its mother. Another issue: rape. Many mothers wouldn't survive the emotional torment of sexual assault or rape, let alone give birth to a baby of the criminal. Also, health. Thousands of people around the world cannot give birth without putting their own lives at risk. You, whether you choose to accept it or not, kill more sentient being than any pro choice vegan.
    1
  365.  @lordseaworth6055  why are you bringing the Big Bang into this. I'm just saying, it's easy to get protein while being plant based.
    1
  366. I genuinely feel that Ed would win any debate.
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  367.  @justasimpleengineer96  would it be okay for me to shoot people in the head at 20 years old then?
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  368.  @justasimpleengineer96  so you'd shoot the head instead? That's not demonic at all.
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  369.  @justasimpleengineer96  what if a culture appropriated genocide of all LGBT people? Does that make it acceptable? Also, would you really choose to slit the throat of a pig in person, and watch it bleed out?
    1
  370.  @serra_edoardo  even though an animal can be killed without suffering, it's taken away from its family. And killed years before it would die naturally. So even if the animals don't feel pain physically, they get scared. They can't feel sophisticated emotions like pride, but they can feel happiness, sadness and fear. Also, people say that animals are killed "humanely", when they don't feel the physical pain. But the definition of the word humane is 'having or showing compassion or benevolence'. I just want to know how you can kill a living being and call it 'compassionate' or 'benevolent'.
    1
  371. First off, plants don't feel pain. Second, vegans do less harm than you! We don't eat meat but we eat plants, you eat both.
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  372.  @blissfulldoom5452  yup, but meat eaters result in the majority of crop deaths either way.
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  373. Well, crops deaths do account for a few animal deaths, but meat eaters cause more of these as well. So veganism still kills animals, it's just less.
    1
  374.  @xanazf7151  but you literally won't do that. There are so few animals that would actually try to kill a human for food.
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  375.  @xanazf7151  bro. Cows aren't trying to eat you. So why do this if you're causing unnecessary pain on other animals?
    1
  376. Pretty sure his surname's Winters
    1
  377. You couldn't sound any more idiotic.
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  378. What arguments do you have that support the dead animals you eat?
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  379. Bears need meat to survive, and don't have a sense of morality lol
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  380. Becuase the meat in the supermarket is a DEAD ANIMAL. The vegetables are plants
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  381.  Uptown Rider  please, list the essential nutrients it's impossible to get on a plant based diet,
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  382.  Uptown Rider  every year, livestock consume more crops than people.
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  383. It's actually not, necessarily. Look up "vegan bodybuilders". It'll only take 8 seconds.
    1
  384. More crops are killed in the production of meat and dairy than in the production of a plant based meal. Livestock consume more plants, per annum, than all humans.
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  385.  @craftchild_9151  approximately 70% of the world's soy is fed to livestock. https://www.onegreenplanet.org/environment/why-tofu-consumption-is-not-responsible-for-soy-related-deforestation/
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  386.  @craftchild_9151  read these: https://news.cornell.edu/stories/1997/08/us-could-feed-800-million-people-grain-livestock-eat https://www.britannica.com/story/do-plants-feel-pain
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  387. 1. You actually kill more plants than me, through deforestation for livestock farms, and food given to livestock. In fact, up to seventy percent of soy is fed to animals on farms. 2. Even if vegans did kill more plants, plants cannot feel anything. In order for an organism to feel pain, it need to have pain receptors and a central nervous system (neither of which is present in a plant).
    1
  388.  @chazzz284  har har, hilarious
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  389. OMG, you're his personal professional nutritionist with specific data on his weight, height, and general health?
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  390.  @justasimpleengineer96  some people have pet pigs, or chickens.
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  391.  @justasimpleengineer96  would you kill puppies?
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  392.  @ItsOnlyNck  working for the meat industry can be easily replaced. Farming plants is a good example.
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  393.  @ItsOnlyNck  what arevyou saying? You're saying that animals shouldnn't eat meat, or what? It makes zero sense. Animals have no sense of morality, we do.
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  394.  @ItsOnlyNck  animals don't have a sense of morality in the same way we do, and many need meat to survive.
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  395. And Ted Bundy enjoyed murder. That doesn't justify it.
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  396.  @adonygrapes  not really kiddo.
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  397. ...
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  398.  @hawkeyefan4ever163  would you really thoguh?
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  399. 1. You say it's fine providing the death is "quick and painless". First, this is not always guaranteed, especially in the hunting industry. Second, you make it seem like you're saying that any killing is fine if it's painless. Could you apply that same logic to a human, or even a cat or dog? There's also the issue that the mother of many animals killed will be affected, as mothers form a strong connection with their young in many species. 2. Our bodies actually are more suited to a plant based, or at the very least plant focused, diet. 3. You honestly sound a little weird at the end there pal. Your favourite part is chasing a terrified animal in the knowledge that it'll die and it's blood will be on your hands?
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  400. Humans obviously can't be perfect. We can't stop all suffering, but going vegan massively reduces this suffering.
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  401.  @no1aviator  even if both are equally good or bad for the soil, you ultimately kill less animals by eating plant based.
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  402.  @no1aviator  the other 60% is fed to people, but you have to acknowledge land cleared for farming too. Also, many vegan foods like beans provide essential nitrogen to the soil, where livestock do not.
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  403. If you're talking about crop deaths, you'd be wrong. Every year, forty percent of our crops and grains are fed to livestock, which are bred to reproduce faster than they would naturally. Not to mention land cleared for farming, and excess methane being put into the air. A cow will produce up to five hundred litres of methane every single day. That's the methane equivalent of 3.1 gigatonnes of carbon dioxide into the air annually.
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  404. 1. Ed os ntot underweight, and weight is not an indicator of health. 2. You cause more crop deaths than vegans, through livestock feed and land cleared for their farming. 3. Again, skin colour is hardly an indicator of health. It's more often genetic, or based on where you live and what you do. 4. It's a little psychotic to laugh as much as she did about the mass slaughter of animals who don't want or need to die.
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  405.  @justasimpleengineer96  as unnatural as being shot though? As painful as having your child killed? I doubt it. Why do people want so much to interfere with nature? You're not saving an animal by killing it early.
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  406.  @parkerb9010  mate, would you rather live a long life and die naturally, or be killed years before you'd die naturally and have your flesh cooked and eaten?
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  407. You've met every existing vegan? If you feel bad while choosing to kill an animal, why kill it?
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  408. Why? 🙄
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  409. Great argument. The evidence is unrivalled. I may have to rethink my entire philosophy.
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  410.  @mashfiqfarabi4714  yes, animals eat other animals. But they don't mass breed or torture them. No comparison.
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  411. How does your theory of "balance" outeigh the suffering of billions of animals?
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  412.  @Seasonalable  mate, it's a yes or no question. Stop avoiding it. If you could choose between killing two animals or six, which would you pick?
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  413.  @Seasonalable  if the slaughter would only mean that a few people would experience a few moments of sensory pleasure, would you rather kill 2 or 6 puppies? It's not a complicated question.
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  414.  @Seasonalable  but if there was NO CHOICE? If you HAD to choose whether to kill 6 or two?
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  415.  @Seasonalable  then why not reduce the number of lives being taken?
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  416.  @Seasonalable  only if you have no choice.
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  417.  @Seasonalable  of course it does. Would you rather kill two puppies, or ten? If you had no choice, you'd probably pick two. And people probably wouldn't question it.
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  418. We kill far fewer animals, whatever the species. If you're talking about crop deaths, please bear in mind livestock consume millions of tons of crops too. As in, the livestock bred to reproduce faster. It's not perfect, but it's about as good as we can get it.
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  419. On behalf of every vegan, we aren't offended. We, however, do not think you're doing yourself any favours in the getting laid department.
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  420.  @Smithy779  People who breed animals would switch to growing plants. It's not complicated. And the meat industry already causes the most deforestation. And the second comment: you said you ''like meat.''
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  421.  @Smithy779  I'm sure Ted Bundy like murder. And yet...
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  422. Food stocks wouldn't decrease, animal products would be replaced.
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  423.  @mello.b3373  again, a source?
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  424. K...?
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  425.  @eponaalbion  I'm sorry what 😂
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  426. How likely is it that that'll ever happen?
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  427. GOD ALSO TOLD YOU HOW TO TREAT YOUR SLAVES, BRAD
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  428. Non vegans kill more plants than vegans do.
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  429.  @joefosdike3086  there's also a lot of videos online with tips for new vegans
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  430. I really recommend veganism! It's a great choice for so many reasons.
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  431. So you've never eaten a vegetable? K... Also I'm pretty sure plants produce CO2 at night
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  432.  @justasimpleengineer96  https://www.heart.org/en/healthy-living/healthy-eating/eat-smart/nutrition-basics/vitamin-supplements-hype-or-help-for-healthy-eating
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  433.  @justasimpleengineer96  https://www.vox.com/2019/3/20/18214505/fiber-diet-weight-loss And you can SAY you're healthy, but have you really been tested for every possible deficiency? I doubt it. Also, nutritionists worldwide say that supplementation is healthy. You should take them on any ''diet''
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  434. More meat eaters take supplements than vegans, and most non vegans are fibre deficient.
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  435.  @gandaruvu  everyone eating meat will result in factory farming. And even if not, it's still causing excess suffering.
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  436. I'd say no: we shouldn't be interfering with nature in this way.
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  437. Carnivorous and omnivorous animals (a) do not have a sense of morality in the same way we do and (b) generally need meat to survive in their climate. You "only" advocate for the mass slaughter of two sentient animals? Also milk is an added factor. I love my best friend, but I have pictures of her. A plant based diet is not a full elimination of all suffering, but it is a considerable decrease in this suffering. Livestock are fed nearly half of all crops and grains produced, thus non vegans contribute greatly to crop deaths. Telling people to eat whatever they want, without caring about animals abuse and cruelty, seems almost sociopathic to me. Would you tell a school shooter to kill whoever they want? Would you even tell someone who frequently drowns, say, puppies, to do whatever?
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  438. ...
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  439.  Uptown Rider  we're not talking skills for hypothetical situations. She wants to live in the wild.
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  440.  Uptown Rider  she was literally saying she wanted to do that bro.
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  441. If meat eaters start living in caves and hunting for all their food, it's just natural selection at this point.
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  442.  @uptown_rider8078  most animals existed BEFORE humans did bro.
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  443.  @uptown_rider8078  mate, that's not how biology works. Animals don't exist solely for the purpose of being killed and eaten by humans. We breed them at fast rates, but we didn't invent them.
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  444. There's very little "natural" about taking a gun and killing things for sport. If you're going by what we've done in the past... well, we used to have slaves.
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  445.  @Drjrey-pi6re  christians aren't demonised, the ones who use their religion as an excuse to assault us are. Let's look up "cruelty": cruel behaviour or attitudes.
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  446.  @Drjrey-pi6re  you are literally being transphobic, homophobic and pro animal cruelty all in one.
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  447.  @Drjrey-pi6re  We don't ''demonise'' Christians, we fear the ones who sexually assault us, tell us to commit suicide and use their religion as an excuse to abuse and murder us. We have a right to be angry with this group of people. Plants can't feel anything, as they don't have a brain, CNS or pain receptors. And meat eaters kill more plants than vegans, through crop production for livestock and land clearing. Livestock, per annum, consume more crops than the entire population of Earth.
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  448. I will let people believe what they want to believe providing their opinions don't hurt another living being. Transphobes hurt trans and non binary people, non vegans hurt billions of animals.
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  449. Plants don't feel pain, as they have no pain receptors or CNS. Meat eaters are also responsible for more deaths of plants, through things like crops fed to livestock.
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  450.  @vladvasiloni1577  you know what's funny? You tell someone you're vegan, and they immediately become plant advocates, evolutionary anthropologists, nutritionists, theologians and lions.
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  451. Just get faux leather...
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  452.  @AsylumO-ci6do  just did: they don't have a CNS, pain receptors, or a brain. They don't feel pain.
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  453. Plants don't have a nervous system, and they don't breathe so much as respire. And the last argument meant nothing: (a) you aren't proving yourself right, and (b) at least we aren't killing hundreds of innocent animals.
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  454.  @forgottencarpet84  and how did we get to slaves? Well, it's just that the bible says it's perfectly fine to have them.
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  455.  @forgottencarpet84  Leviticus 11:1-47  Speak to the people of Isreal, saying, these are the living things that you may eat... whatever parts the hoof and is cloven-footed and chews the cud, among the animals, you may eat." This obviously excludes pigs (they don't "chew the cud", and cows (similarly). Leviticus 19:26 "Do not eat any meat with the blood still in it." This includes, for example, burgers. Proverbs 23:20 "Do not join those who... gouge themselves on meat" Deuteronomy 14:3 "The pig is also unclean; although it has a divided hoof, it does not chew the cud. You are not to eat their meat or touch their carcasses." And yet you eat pork? And even if the bible said that everyone had to eat meat, (a) not everyone is Christian, and (b) the bible also says that braids aren't allowed. Are you protesting against everyone with braids?
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  456. In the bible, it literally says not to eat meat with blood in. Like, you know, burgers. And even if the bible had said to eat meat, it also told you how to treat your SLAVES.
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  457. My dude. You are mass slaughtering animals.
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  458.  @hfoote17  sir. I love my friend, but I have pictures of her. I don't send her away to be killed as her mother wonders where she is.
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  459.  @kingswaddy2436  The reason the populations of animals, particularly livestock, wouldn't explode is that they are bred to reproduce almost ten times faster than they would naturally.
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  460.  @kingswaddy2436  First, animal protein is dangerous. I could write a whole essay on studies proving that veganism, just regarding protein, is better. Second, animal populations would decrease; but then level out. Environmentally, it is proven that eating plant based is more helpful.
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  461. You ca't have come across many vegans then.
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  462.  @Crow-sj6sf  still waiting… 15 necessary nutrients missing from my diet...
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  463.  @Crow-sj6sf  didn't you read the definition of food…? Even if you're right, you didn't originally ask for FOOD SOURCES, you just asked for sources. Oh, and taurine isn't necessary. Feel free to think you're right though. Now name the other 14 nutrients, which are necessary for my health, that I'm missing.
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  464.  @Crow-sj6sf  or you could just totally ignore my comment… that works too, I guess...
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  465.  @Crow-sj6sf  also, the original question was, and I quote "Do you think there are Vegan sources for all the nutrients the body needs?" Not food sources. You just said "sources" the first time.
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  466.  @Crow-sj6sf  it is a food though, in the same way that cinnamon or bread are food. Food: any nutritious substance that people or animals eat or drink or that plants absorb in order to maintain life and growth.
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  467.  @Crow-sj6sf  taurine bulk powders. K, now for the other 14. btw, taurine isn't considered necessary on any diet.
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  468.  @Crow-sj6sf  Taurine, in and of itself is vegan and is simply an acid. However, in its natural state, it is primarily, though not exclusively, found in animals. When it is added to products it may have been taken from animals or plant sources, or indeed synthesised in a lab. Any nutrients one can get from meat, one can get either from plants,
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  469.  @Crow-sj6sf  I did though. The answer: yes.
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  470.  @Crow-sj6sf  So, you didn't once prove me wrong, or give any evidence, or even explain your argument. Therefore, you won.Seems legit. I'll keep waiting for you to tell me which 15 nutrients are totally unavailable on a vegan diet, although I'm assuming that you completely made that up.
    1
  471.  @Crow-sj6sf  nutrients then. Jesus, you're such a child.
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  472.  @Crow-sj6sf  The list of 15 vitamins missing from a vegan diet you idiot.
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  473.  @Crow-sj6sf  I told you to give evidence. You still haven't.
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  474.  @Crow-sj6sf  still waiting for a link… and I have a job...
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  475.  @Crow-sj6sf  right, so you're refusing to give evidence. Because there is none.
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  476.  @Crow-sj6sf  so you don't know?
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  477. You're talking to a LIVING, BREATHING VEGAN! Which nutrients are you referring to?
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  478. Humans are also designed and built to kill other humans. Does it make us healthier? No. Is it morally acceptable? By most people's standards, no, absolutely not. There are no nutrients in meat that you can't find anywhere else.
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  479. Of course! That's like saying that global warming doesn't matter. In a large scale, like that of the whole universe, it's obviously trivial. But it still matters, because the lives of others depend on our choices.
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  480. Lol
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  481.  @Mohamed.AbduLlahh  ignoring the rest that's totally wrong with your reply, no, not all vegans buy fairtrade. But the ones who are vegan for ethical reasons are more likely to. As well as this, the working conditions inside slaughterhouses are terrible.  Plants don't feel pain. They have no brain, CNS, or pain receptors, making it biologically impossible for them to "feel" anything. Yes, there have been studies showing certain responses to environmental situations, etc., but there's a difference between feeling pain and responding to a stimulus. And even if they did feel pain, you kill statistically more plants than vegans do. Livestock, per annum, will consume more crops than the entire human population. Also, you eat plants too. I'll just leave you with this: I'd rather watch an hour of strawberries being harvested than an hour of slaughterhouse footage.
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  482. Wow. Okay, let's go through this. First, I can assure you she eats dairy. This is probably from the supermarket. Even if it's not, most meat eaters will never hunt in their lives. Who buys bananas wrapped in plastic? I don't, do you? I only ever buy Fairtrade food. And you pollute more. You contribute to global warming more. Methane from the animals, smoke from factories... Not to mention the terrible working conditions inside meat production buildings.
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  483. But most of us aren't exactly in forest survival situations.
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  484. You're kidding, right? You'd better be kidding lol
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  485.  @texcarson5544  when the things you eat directly cause harm and suffering to other people and animals, I think you should reconsider.
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  486. Yup, and humans are here so we can kill them. Children are here so we can abuse them. Just because something is possible, doesn't make it ethical.
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  487. See, that just seems psychopathic. "I don't care if it's immoral".
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  488.  @keithtaylor3347  sir, it is basic knowledge. The meat and dairy industries cause more crop deaths.
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  489. Meat eaters actually kill more plants, through fodder crops and land destroyed for farming.
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  490.  @Coombi93  I don't support that, because while it's pretty much necessary for crop growth, animals still die. So I grow a lot of my food, and check the sources of the rest. But you contribute more to it, by killing plants for livestock.
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  491.  @Coombi93  Look. Suppose all humans were being bred to be killed. We live ''great'' lives, but does that mean it's fine for us to be slaughtered. It makes no sense to me. Even if an animal is treated well, you still pay people to take it's life away. Also there's the ethics of breeding animals into existence just in order to kill them, and the terrible working conditions in most slaughterhouses.
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  492.  @Coombi93  and when you PAY for the food, you PAY workers to kill animals. Supply and demand bb. Think about it for 8 seconds.
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  493.  @Coombi93  but you eat pork? Beef? Chicken?
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  494.  @Coombi93  by paying for them to be taken from their mothers and killed.
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  495.  @Coombi93   It is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose. We are harming less animals than you.
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  496. The definition is to reduce the suffering of animals as far as realistically possible. Most people don't even have a garden to grow plants in.
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  497.  @mello.b3373  K. So because of one vegetarian, all vegans and vegetarians are bad. You're calling millions and millions of people Nazis.
    1
  498. Gandhi was vegan, Hitler was vegetarian. But why on Earth does this matter?
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  499.  @yoshiturtle424  it also destroys wildlife my friend. If people stopped hunting, we could change to doing different things to help.
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  500.  @yoshiturtle424  i'm a... wildlife conservationist?
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  501. and i'm sure ted bundy enjoyed murder. does that make it right though?
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  502.  @GunZPhyszyijji  but why can't I slaughter thousands of puppies?
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  503.  @uncleruckus6261  So it's not okay for people to eat dogs in cultures where most people do the same?
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  504.  @uncleruckus6261  Why? Why wouldn't you let me mass slaughter millions of cats and dogs?
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  505.  @GunZPhyszyijji  so you'd let someone else eat your pet dog?
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  506. Most humans will never hunt in their lives.
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  507. Bro. Grizzly bears only eat meat during colder months. They can survive on a plant based diet, they just won't find it in the wild.
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  508. They account for a tiny percentage of our population. Vegans want people to go plant based, unless climate conditions make this impossible.
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  509.  @teddyp1605  please, just provide a link. If you can't find one and just came up with the statement that all hunters are mentally ill out of thin air, then please delete or edit the comment. Hunting is not "Psychopathic" or "Sociopathic" in the medical definitions of the word. Unless I was never taught this: if so, please reply with the link to a study proving it.
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  510.  @teddyp1605  I just ask based on the fact that in all my years of studying psychology and mental health disorders, hunting has not been mentioned. And just so you know, I agree that's it's a wrong thing to do. I do think it's honestly disgusting. But I don't like it when people spread misinformation, whatever side they're on.
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  511.  @teddyp1605  I just want a link. You said "Hunting is widely regarded... a a mental health disorder". You've given no proof of this other than your own views.
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  512. I never knew that! Can you link a source maybe? I'd like to read more :)
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  513. Plants can't feel pain, and you kill more anyway.
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  514.  @USAF-mt1tu  how do you plan to hunt without spending money on some form of weapon? Jesus. Animals kill each other because they don't have a sense of morality. We do, it's not that complicated.
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  515.  @USAF-mt1tu  If you can afford guns and internet connection, you can afford to spend some extra money on vegetables. It means you won't be killing innocent sentient animals...
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  516.  @bonden5167  supplementation my dude, supplementation.
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  517. Because we care about animals.
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  518.  @brunosantos-bc6bt  you're really saying you'd let me kill, cook and eat your pet?
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  519. You are still killing an animal. You are still consciously ending the life of an animal who wants to live. "Should I really care about someone I don't know?" Yes. I feel like I shouldn't have to explain this. I care about people I don't know personally: George Floyd, Emma Watson.
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  520. Ikr 😂 What an idiot
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  521. That's the problem. It's likely that we won't feel the biggest effects of, for instance, global warming, but our children might.
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  522.  @zer0edgy952  reminds me of Stanford Prison...
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  523.  @justasimpleengineer96  k, see you :) For the record, it's really not people I hate. It's the industies they're supporting.
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  524.  @justasimpleengineer96  if you don't read his comment and think "that's sociopathic", we won't get anywhere with this conversation. It was great trying to talk to you, bye.
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  525.  @justasimpleengineer96  he said he's superior to trillions of animals because he can end entire species in a flash. How does that NOT seem demented?
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  526.  @justasimpleengineer96  that's not... ugh, never mind. You keep using the exact same straw man arguments. I'm done here, bye.
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  527.  @zer0edgy952  and they call vegans crazy... that is nazi shit... it's nazi shit...
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  528.  @FalconfromRF  largely so, given how few people are vegan. Also, pest control is used a lot in livestock farming, as well as land just being cleared.
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  529. "More respectful" isn't respectful. Why kill an animal when you could eat plants?
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  530.  @gandaruvu  I'm saying mass killing them (when we don't need to eat them to survive, and when we have the morality to know that it's wrong) is not okay.
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  531. We can reintroduce wolves, and the young ones are already eaten by predatory birds like eagles.
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  532. It's not vegans being extreme. What's extreme is paying for the mass slaughter of billions of animals who don't need to die.
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  533.  Uptown Rider  right. See, I am too. And we seem to have entirely different experiences. In areas with a lot of hunting, we have basically no hen harriers, eagles, etc., but in areas with no hunting? Thriving.
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  534.  Uptown Rider  are you a conservationist?
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  535. The argument about deer having no natural predators was ridiculous. The are preyed upon mainly by large predatory birds, including common buzzards and some eagles. Because of hunters, both deer and golden eagle populations are decreasing.
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  536.  @kevinfuller2310  and hippo stomachs aren't suited to eating meat, so them actually doing so is likely a result of aberrant behaviour or nutritional stress.
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  537.  @kevinfuller2310  only one percent of a giant panda's diet is other than bamboo, and most of that is different plants.
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  538.  Gato Juanito  so you'd really be fine if I killed, say, your dog?
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  539.  Jules Juerez  why can't I tell other people why I think it's wrong to cause unnecessary suffering?
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  540.  Jules Juerez  WE used to eat meat. Do we need to now though?
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  541.  Juba  it's less suffering mate. How is that worse than more suffering? I'm genuinely trying to understand, but I don't get your logic. I think that vegetarianism isn't good, but it's better than eating meat.
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  542.  Juba  you're not going to answer? Okay then, have a good day.
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  543.  Juba  how is vegetarianism worse than eating meat, eggs and dairy?
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  544.  Juba  again, I'm not saying vegetarianism is good. But it's a step along the way to being vegan, and is closer to it that meat eating.
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  545.  Juba  I said better, not good. Would you rather animals were killed just for eggs, milk and leather, or if they were killed for these and meat? It's a reduction in deaths.
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  546.  Juba  why?
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  547.  @mello.b3373  I see. And what makes you think that?
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  548. Deer do, in fact, have natural predators in the UK. These consist mainly of large predatory birds, particularly golden eagles and common buzzards, who often eat the young animals. Because of hunting, the populations of deer and their predators are dwindling. Also, many hunters here illegally shoot eagles, in order to stop them from eating the deer that will be shot.
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  549.  @infame4493  if you're only eating raw meat, you'll die soon. No questions asked.
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  550. She clearly didn't, no matter what side you're on.
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  551. You. Can't. Kill. A. Sentient. Being. Ethically.
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  552.  @tjruckiis6264  k, just know that no one cares that you're obsessed with meat. The arguments you make are legitimately childish.
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  553.  @tjruckiis6264  it's not even a debate: you've given zero decent arguments.
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  554.  @SuperIvysaur  your comment, and I quote, said, '"Humane is compassion and benevolence" yeah no, you are living in a disney fantasy world like she said.' Clearly suggesting that you disagree with Ed's point that humane is a synonym for compassionately,
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  555.  @SuperIvysaur  you said that he's living in a fantasy world because he said that synonyms for humane are 'compassionate' and 'benevolent'.
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  556.  @SuperIvysaur  humane: having or showing compassion or benevolence.
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  557. Look up the dictionary definition of humane real quick.
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  558.  @lordseaworth6055  Yeah, of course I'm not superior. When did I say that? The point of veganism is that all lives are equal. YOU are the one who thinks you're superior to all other species.
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  559.  @lordseaworth6055  of course you'll say that, even though you know you're wrong. You eat meat.
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  560.  @CDuff86  but you literally kill the deer to "manage the population". You're just contradicting yourself.
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  561.  @CDuff86  you want to kill millions of people in the name of population control? Jesus Christ that's scary.
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  562.  @CDuff86  then reintroduce wolves. Large predatory birds. Increase land for habitats. We don't need to kill them. Heck, humans are overpopulated. I don't think we should kill millions of people: do you?
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  563.  Uptown Rider  supplements. are not. drugs.
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  564.  Uptown Rider  bruh. Are you dense? Fibre supplements have NOTHING in common with meth.
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  565.  Uptown Rider  THAT'S THE POINT! Unnatural things aren't necessarily wrong, so do them (as long as they aren't dangerous or anything). And bro, just don't eat soy.
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  566.  Uptown Rider  most of the things we do in life aren't natural. And you should probably be taking fibre supplements anyway, as most meat eaters are deficient.
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  567.  Uptown Rider  pills normally. And many nutrients are perfectly fine to not consume, taurine being one.
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  568.  Uptown Rider  all of those can be supplemented, some aren't essential, many can be found in plants and fungi.
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  569.  Uptown Rider  name. the nutrients. missing. from a balanced. plant based. diet.
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  570.  @starandfox601  first, please learn grammar. Hard to read without cringing. You are massively generalising. Yes, saliva can vary in omnivores. But for the MOST PART, it does not.
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  571.  @starandfox601  the key word there is "some". And our intestines are only shorter because we're... smaller.
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  572.  @starandfox601  regarding whether or not we are meant to consume meat: Intestine length ● Carnivores: 2 to 5 X body length. ● Omnivores: 1.25 to 10 X BL ● Herbivores: 7 X BL ● Humans: 7 X BL Colon ● C: simple, short, smooth ● O: short & smooth OR medium & sacculated ● He: long & complex, may be sacculated ● Hu: long and sacculated Jaw joint location ● C: same plane as molars ● O: same plane as molars ● Herb: above plane of molars ● Hu: above plane of molars Jaw Motion ● C: slicing, minimal side to side ● O: slicing, minimal side to side ● He: no slicing, good side to side, front to back motion ● Hu: no slicing, good side to side, front to back motion Incisors ● C: short and pointed ● O: short and pointed ● He: broad, flattened, spade-like ● Hu: broad, flattened, spade-like Molars ● C: sharp, jagged, blade-shaped ● O: sharp or flattened ● He: flattened ● Hu: flattened Canines ● C: sharp, long, curved ● O: sharp, long, curved ● He: dull & short OR long OR none ● Hu: short and blunted Saliva ● C: small parotid, mucous submandibular saliva ● O: small parotid, seromucous submandibular saliva ● He: large parotid, mostly serous submandibular saliva ● Hu: large parotid, mostly serous submandibular saliva Amylase (Digests Carbohydrates) ● C: Do not produce amylase ● O: Varies depending on species ● He: Varies depending on species ● Hu: produce amylase Synthesis of taurine/creatine/carnitine ● C: do not synthesise any of them ● O: depends on species ● He: synthesise all of them ● Hu: synthesise all of them We have characteristics far more similar to those of herbivores than omnivores or carnivores.
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  573.  @starandfox601  hunting does very little to manage populations, and farming results in mass breeding. If we stopped farming, populations would actually decrease.
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  574.  @starandfox601  humans are better "designed" to eat a balanced diet of plants and fungi, with little to no meat. The vegans who get sick get sick because they don't eat the right things to maintain their health, not because they eat plants.
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  575.  @jurcik250  okay, we've got a lot of factors here. Intestine length ● Carnivores: 2 to 5 X body length. ● Omnivores: 1.25 to 10 X BL ● Herbivores: 7 X BL ● Humans: 7 X BL Colon ● C: simple, short, smooth ● O: short & smooth OR medium & sacculated ● He: long & complex, may be sacculated ● Hu: long and sacculated Jaw joint location ● C: same plane as molars ● O: same plane as molars ● Herb: above plane of molars ● Hu: above plane of molars Jaw Motion ● C: slicing, minimal side to side ● O: slicing, minimal side to side ● He: no slicing, good side to side, front to back motion ● Hu: no slicing, good side to side, front to back motion Incisors ● C: short and pointed ● O: short and pointed ● He: broad, flattened, spade-like ● Hu: broad, flattened, spade-like Molars ● C: sharp, jagged, blade-shaped ● O: sharp or flattened ● He: flattened ● Hu: flattened Canines ● C: sharp, long, curved ● O: sharp, long, curved ● He: dull & short OR long OR none ● Hu: short and blunted Saliva ● C: small parotid, mucous submandibular saliva ● O: small parotid, seromucous submandibular saliva ● He: large parotid, mostly serous submandibular saliva ● Hu: large parotid, mostly serous submandibular saliva Amylase (Digests Carbohydrates) ● C: Do not produce amylase ● O: Varies depending on species ● He: Varies depending on species ● Hu: produce amylase Synthesis of taurine/creatine/carnitine ● C: do not synthesise any of them ● O: depends on species ● He: synthesise all of them ● Hu: synthesise all of them
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  576. Hunters would probably still hunt, meat isn't healthy or natural for us to eat, and harm would still be caused to animals in, for example, the dairy industry. It would be better, but certainly not good.
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  577. Bro. She really doesn't make good points.
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  578. We're not doing that though. We encourage anyone who can do so to go vegan or plant based.
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  579.  @walterharris6191  oh, and that ridiculous study that you linked. First off, the site is not science based. Second, you said "living things", not just animals.
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  580.  @walterharris6191  just referring to the studies about plants you mentioned: there's a difference between responding to stimuli and feeling literal pain. When people get cut, blood will clot, even if there is no pain. We do not think "oh, I'd better send some blood to this part of my body to coagulate". It just happens naturally, regardless of whether there's pain or not. Yes, plants respond to stimuli. No, this does not mean that they are conscious and feel pain. To say that plants feel pain is not an opinion, it is denial of basic facts. In order for an organism to feel pain, it NEEDS a brain, CNS, and pain receptors. Biologically. Also, you kill more plants on a non vegan diet than on a vegan one, because livestock consume more crops yearly than all humans.
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  581.  @walterharris6191  dude. Plants don't have brains. It's not an opinion, it's a biological fact. They also have no CNS or pain receptors. And where the hell did you get the 70% thing? Because it's VASTLY inaccurate. You forget, plants, fungi and protists are living too, and loads of animals are herbivores.
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  582. There's a couple of issues with the 'moral superiority' argument.  First, and most obvious, most vegans don't act like this. You're gathering the stereotype simply from vegans online, and it's their career to explain why eating animal products is wrong. Second, it's difficult to deny that vegans do have morally 'superior' views. We don't kill animals for taste preference. Finally, we can't exactly get annoyed at insectivorous plants, because they don't have brains, and therefore no conscience. It makes no sense.
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  583. Again, there are no nutrients lacking in a balanced and healthy plant based diet. Most vegans are more health aware, because we need to explain why we won't drop dead of nutrient deficiency tomorrow. In addition, studies have shown that a whole food plant based diet can reverse heart disease: https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-magazine/nutrition/ask-the-expert/plant-based-diets Also, plant proteins are a lot safer than animal proteins. Another study from nutritionstudies.org showed that casin (a protein found in dairy) was 5 times more effective than soy proteins in raising cholesterol to unhealthy amounts and generating early heart disease. Right off the bat, maybe choose the protein that won't give you heart disease. And that's just one study of many: I recommend reading The China Study. Also, it's extremely dangerous to consume excess protein as opposed to slightly less than recommended. One study shows that there is a direct proportion between high protein levels and tumour growth and development. This looked at casin consumption and it's effects on tumour development (referencing Cornell plantbased nutrition course). In the study, one group of animals was fed above 10-20% of their calories from protein (at the time of the study this was considered the healthy amount), and the tumours of these animals developed quickly. These animals soon died. The other group was fed below 10% of their calories from protein, and this reversed their tumour development. It is a myth that you need tons of protein to develop muscle. Next, complete proteins: there are 9 essential amino acids, all of which are necessary to be eaten throughout the day. But you don't have to get them all in one meal. As long as you're eating a variety of plant based foods, you will easily be getting the protein you need. If anyone is at risk of becoming deficient, it will be recommended by nutritionists to supplement. Don't say "if you need supplements then it's not healthy", because that's just not true. Non vegans should take supplements too, particularly for fibre (which most lack). It's not unhealthy to eat fortified foods or supplements. If it was dangerous, doctors wouldn't recommend it.
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  584. This guy doesn't: https://www.instagram.com/jonvenus/?hl=en
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  585. Not in this day, age and society.
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  586. It's also technically natural for us to murder and go to war.
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  587. Animals will not overpopulate if we stopped eating them. Because, in farms, they are bred far faster than they would reproduce naturally. And it's a tiny proportion of large predators that end up being kept in zoos for other people to stare at.
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  588. When you realise I'm a wildlife conservationist...
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  589.  @mello.b3373  I recently asked a young child why they eat meat. She said "Because the animal dies of old age". And you really say vegans are brainwashed.
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  590.  @HypercaneC  yes, we would still need agriculture. Nut oddly enough, we'd actually need less. It's pretty complicated, but livestock consume millions of tons of the crops and grains we grow specifically for them. So the meat and dairy industries actually contribute more to large scale agriculture than people who only grow plants.
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  591. You should care about the unnecessary and excessive deaths that you cause though...
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  592. First off, he's not an unhealthy weight so much as on the lower end of the scale. Second, millions of meat eaters are underweight. I myself was anorexic when I ate meat. Third, weight and size aren't direct indicators of health. Finally, https://www.greatveganathletes.com/category/vegan-bodybuilders/
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  593.  @mello.b3373  cholesterol is only found in meat products. Still think it's healthy?
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  594. Welp, that's a huge shame and I'm sorry for the animals you pay to be be killed.
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