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@sjv9147s Throw in all of the US debt (it's all in dollars, so this external/internal reference is irrelevant) - and China has much more. I misspoke before, US's total debt is 120% of GDP and China's is around 280%. The point is - you have no place to bring up debt when comparing the two countries bc China is, by far, the worst offender.
You can say US is a "fad country" but they still have the biggest economy, the most powerful military, the most global influence, the greatest web of global alliances, and the reserve currency.
China won't ever overtake the US due to it's crushing debt load at a much lower development level and shrinking population. You may not like it, you may call them a fad, but it is what it is.
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@justinblake420 They are ethnically Chinese, but their nationality is Taiwanese. Maybe in your world, ethnicity and nationality are the same - but the rest of the world does not see it like that.
ie: if a Chinese couple move to America, start a family and have children - their children are ethnically Chinese but their nationality is American.
Distance is also irrelevant. By that logic - Sri Lanka belongs to India
China does not have a right over all ethnically Chinese, just because of their DNA and the language they speak. The CCP has never governed the island, ever.
Taiwan has: governed itself for 70 years, it's own passport, currency, diplomatic ties, trade agreements, system of government, military
The CCP waited too long to retake the island and now the world see's it as it's own country. They had 73 years and they will justifiably have global pushback and consequences if they try to do so now.
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@animaanimus8011 I don't have time to go into detail to explain my point with every single random person on youtube who does not understand me. You may have interpreted me as elitist, but that is yours to interpret. A better idea would be to actually go look up the guy I'm talking about actually watch his lectures and interviews, instead of me 2nd hand explaining to you what he thinks. The Palestine train disaster actually proves my point that it's nothing like the US. When the train wreck happened in Palestine - the people can actually sue that company, and possibly the government - and be awarded compensation for their damages. All of this by an independent judiciary. In China? Wrecks and disasters like that happen all of the time but are covered up and censored by the State. There are footages of gas explosions, building collapses, train derailments, etc etc... that are caught and shared by cell phone but never shown on TV. There is zero recourse for the victims - they can't sue the government and goodluck going up against a big corporation in China as a poor villager...especially if it's a state run corp. There is no independent judiciary, your voice will not be heard (in fact, it will be censored), and you will be left to foot the bill...which is an indirect subsidy to businesses and the state. That is how your exact example proves Pettis right. Anyways, I've said too much and you can go watch him yourself
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@greatasia606 Well it's called neo-colonialism. They do this for a few reasons:
1. China depends on a vast number of natural resources for it's State-run economy.
2. UN votes and influence. China doesn't have a lot of friends and is good at making enemies. By targeting small/developing/poor nations with debt such Sri-lanka, African countries, etc, they get UN votes and influence for bad things they do in Xinjian, Taiwan, etc.
3. It gives them a place to dump their excess capacity for things like cement, steel, etc that their State-run economy produces, that nobody needs.
4. They get access to strategic infrastructure such as trade routes and ports that can be used militarily to further project their military around the world.
China has developed a New Age colonialism/imperialism. Instead of running with guns and subjecting their people like the colonialists of the old age - they take advantage of the people of these nations by going through their corrupt government and officials, to create the appearance it was by the will of their people...when in reality, the people have no idea what they government agreed to.
They demand that Chinese workers and companies be used by the money they loaned to that country, so that very little of that money actually goes into the economy. They transfer very little to none of their skills to the locals.
It's Neo-Colonialism
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@Fauzanarief-n7i It's over a 10 year period, so I don't think the issue of raw materials or manpower is a credible factor, in my opinion.
The bill says it prioritizes sourcing for the US on materials but exceptions will be made if there is not enough domestic supply or the cost is too high. So yeah, I just don't see that being an issue or a need to "match" China in production.
Also I'd note that US manufacturing and manufacturing moving into China is more a thing of the past. China is getting much more expensive to produce in, plus a lot other uncertainties, that now there is the problem of manufacturing leaving China for places like Vietnam, India, Mexico.
Private property rights in the US have always been an issue in terms of building infrastructure. However, most of the hard-infrastructure spending is going towards updating/modernizing already built infrastructure. Even in rural America - it's still developed infrastructure (ie: roads, bridges, water systems, etc) it just old and needs to be updated. There won't be any new giant bridges or massive new highways being built that were not there already. So I don't think property rights should be a giant issue.
China definitely has it's advantages in building things due to costs and lack of property rights. However, what I've personally saw in China when I lived there, was actual new infrastructure being built...ie: new highways, new bridges, tunnels, buildings, etc... I think that is a lot different then what then US is planning to do with this bill
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@ssuwandi3240 The comparison is quite fair because they are following a very similar economic model. Although Japan was technically democratic with a private banking industry - they didn't quite manage it like that. They still set loan quotas and the state still directed where the money went ... it's why their situations are both so similar. Households got a low share of GDP in the form of wages, consumer spending was low, extreme over-investment in real estate and infrastructure, deflation, high debt to gdp ratio, used "window guidance" to instruct banks which sectors to lend to (whether they needed it or not), high exports and trade surpluses with the rest of the world. The situations are so similar because the economic models were/are so similar.
There are some things that are better about China"s situation over Japan's but also some things that are definitely worse.. So its might not be 100% the same, but odds are they will be similar and could be better or worse. We will find out
It's important to note that this economic model was not invented by the Chinese, or the Japanese... it's a known and documented investment-led economic model and it has always ended up with either a violent rebalancing (US in the 1920's, Brazil in the 1960's) or a long, drawn out period of rebalancing that results in prolonged stagnation (Japan and probably China).
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@jackyan8925 Hmm so I would see it the other way. China has the opportunity to sell to the world because of the global order created by the EU and US, that has allowed globalization to occur. In addition, China has has greatly benefitted from the EU and US opening their economies to China, even when China has not done the same. It is China that has been the beneficiary, and yet it bites the hands that fed it. There are alternatives to China (Vietnam, India, Bangladesh, Thailand, etc) but there are not alternatives to the demand from the EU and the US. So who is gifted here....? It is not the customer, who is gifted by the seller... but it is the seller, who is gifted by the customer who chooses to buy from them...even though they have increasingly more options to choose from.
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@bobcharles7716 Let me explain something else to you - your PPP measure of economics is just a theory - it relies on the thinking that the yuan was grossly undervalued, that it would appreciate against the dollar and that will carry it to being a bigger nominal economy. Not only is it a theory based on future projections - the exact opposite has happened in China. The currency has depreciated, the population is shrinking faster and sooner than expected, the property bubble is bursting - with 70% of household wealth in property. Not only is there no sign that China isn't changing it's model in the foreseeable future - it would still have to undergo an extremely painful rebalancing period that would take many many years, similar to Japan.
Lastly - I live in China and have for many years, I speak Chinese, and I see it first hand. Nobody here feels like they are winning - since Zero Covid, all of my friends who had the money to leave, have left or will be leaving in the next year. Others want to leave but cannot. They aren't buying homes, and many are seeing the value of the homes they own - fall. You are doing yourself a disservice by believing all of this fake news about how great things are going here, because its all propaganda
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@marktn9851 I think that is the Chinese point of view, but it's not the view of many Asian countries who actually want the US to counter-balance what they see is an aggressive and assertive China. These countries are: Japan, S. Korea, Australia, the Philippines, and India. These are all US allies, with the exception of India (informal ally).
Keep in mind it was not the US who launched missiles into the waters around Taiwan and into Japan's EEZ. It's also not the US who had a conflict with India on their border just recently. It is not the US who basically claimed the entire South China Sea for itself, at the expense of all of the countries who depend on it for their economies - and all because of an "ancient map" that was supposedly found. China also claimed they would not militarize the South China Sea - and they did exactly that.
These are all extremely aggressive actions on the part of China since Xi took power. It seems the "Apex Predator" is behaving just as that - using it's newfound strength to overpower smaller countries and economies.
The US has had military bases in countries that asked for it all around the world for many years, long before any issues with China. You're talk of biolabs makes me think you might believe those conspiracy theories about US biolabs making Covid or bioweapons, or something.
And yes, the US has made many mistakes in the past with wars and a ton of other issues. No doubt about it - but that does not excuse China's behavior now. It's not one is wrong and one is right, or that US has been wrong so it doesn't matter what China does. Any country that does bad things should be held accountable, and China is not exempt from this.
A small history lesson: One of the main reasons China has risen is because of globalization that came from the Freedom Of Navigation (FON) principle and the rules based order that was set up and led by the US after WWII. This made the waters of the ocean safe and allowed globalization to occur. The very same globalization that allowed to China to use the global oceans to sell to the entire world, and import vast amount of natural resources, like: oil, minerals, steel, etc etc. Especially given that China had zero functional navy at the time and had no way to protect it's shipments. If you don't believe me, you can look this up as it's documented world history.
The very same freedom of navigation principle that the allowed China to rise - is now being violated in the South China Sea, by none other than the PRC.
So yes the US has done many atrocious things in history. Nobody is here to say the US has a clean record, if that's what you think. But do not forget that two "wrongs" do not make a "right", and that the US has also done many things that has benefited the globe and allowed countries (especially China) to grow immensely and create a middle class. This is not taught or talked about in China because in China, America = "bad guy". But it is the truth, and it'd be wise for the CCP to keep this in mind when blaming the US for all of it's problems, and taking sole credit for everything that China has become.
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@thomaspham6921 Right but it doesn't matter, in regards to exporting to all over the world. Let me give you another example - lets say two people go out and buy things.. first guy brags that he bought 3,0000 things and the 2nd guy only bought 1. Then they compare and the first guy bought 3000 toys for 1 dollar each, but the 2nd guy bought an 80,000 dollar BMW. That is basically China's entire semiconductor industry vs TSMC, Samsung, or even the US in terms of value added. US chips are not near the value of Samsung or TSMC, but they're still pretty high and they create the software and designs that both of those countries use.
China does not produce high quality chips as of now, therefore the world does not use China "high quality chips". These are facts, so I don't need to say anything further.
The electronic components you speak of that are imported from China to the US and then sold at a profit are - low end, cheap electronics. Which are the only semiconductors that China currently mass produces.
Look, your comment wreaks of bias. I'm only telling you what is objectively true - I have no feelings about who produces what. It's just what is the truth right now
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Maxxxie Lorenzo Lets make something clear - I never ever wish for more human beings to die, nomatter the race, or where they happen to be born.
However, on foreign and Chinese social media - I have seen many Chinese people who are happy about the deaths from tragedy in the US, India, Japan, etc..
So let me just say - I am not like those disgusting people. A Chinese life is equal to me as any other human life. These are my values.
The Chinese Government wasted the last 3 years not building ICU beds, not stockpiling medicines, vaccinating the vulnerable with quality (western) vaccines, not educating the populous... only to "rip off the bandaid" and impose massive costs on every aspect of life. Extremely irresponsible and incompetent. They can no longer say "at least we didn't have mass deaths.".
I love the Chinese people.. but China's government, is completely shit.
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@elenekuprashvili1145 Well they are countries, not villages, and they belong to the EU - not the US. China needs to look in the mirror and realize that when you slap somebody's neighbor - that person may not want to be as close with you anymore.
US has many faults and they admit these mistakes. They admit Iraq was a mistake, they admit Afghanistan was a mistake. They admit they're mistakes so they can learn from them - China never admits it made any mistakes, and that is what will prevent them from learning from them.
"China didn't invade and slotter millions of people in other countries"
Here are some of the countries invaded:
Korea: Korean War 1950-1953
India: Sino-Indian War (1962)
Vietnam: Vietnam War (1979)
But in Chinese history books, you'll never hear that China invaded anybody. However, this is documented world history, globally.
Let me also add: China never needed to invade anybody to kill millions, they did a great job killing 43 million of their own people during the great famine, caused by the CCP.
Btw - when I say "China", I am referring to the CCP, and not the Chinese people. The Chinese people are not responsible for any of this
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@Dept246 I'm aware of the history. I think it's a little more complex than that.. .as you have different factions and opinions within each political group. I think the vast majority of Taiwanese people feel "nobody belongs to anybody" rather than the extreme stances of "Mainland belongs to ROC" or "Taiwan belongs to the PRC"
Taiwanese people have a different way of life, different values, completely different government system.....and they've had it for 70 years. This means they have their own passport, currency, political system, trade agreements, diplomats, social habits, etc etc
To uproot all of that now, to disregard the people...and force them under the PRC, just because now the PRC feels it's strong enough to take it....just feels, deeply inhumane and cruel.
It also begs the question - when is a country it's own country? Could Taiwan go on like this for 100, 200, 300 years - and it still be claimed by China as it's own?
There is no set rule for this, and obviously there are a lot of different opinions. I personally feel that if a country goes so long that it develops all of these things, that it is it's own country.
I feel the PRC missed it's opportunity to rightfully take back Taiwan shortly after the communist revolution, and that doing so now by force will have justifiable consequences. That is just my opinion though
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@wolverine9377 It's kind of funny how little you understand about economics. Li Keqiang said that half the chinese people live on 1,680 a year.
The average income is 3,200. Here is why China will never get to 40k per capita
1. Economic policy shift to the far left
2. Heavy and abrupt regulation in: Education, technology, and real esate
3. Over investment in real estate and infrastructure. Real estate especially because it is 30% of China's GDP and is 70% of household wealth...and it's been fueled with debt. Those days are gone, there is nothing to replace it, and the real estate crash is going to be massively damaging to the public and the future growth
4. Lastly, and most importantly: demographics. It's now known that China has been lying about it's population, and admitted to over counting by 100 million - most of which were women. So China actually has about 1.28 billion, not 1.4. They are also the fastest aging population in the world. Think Japan style stagnation - but much worse. Japan got rich before it got old, China will be old before it gets rich
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@wolverine9377 Nobody actually knows what the real unemployment is in China because the government lies. They always say it's between 5-5.5%. By their own admission, they have stated that youth unemployment right now is 20%..which means it's probably more. Your comment about population shows your ignorance. In a population, you have some young, working age, and old..and not all populations are the same. China has the fastest aging population in human history - due to rapid urbanization and the one child policy. China has way too many old people, and not enough young people. It is losing immense amount of working age population every year because they are going into retirement age... and there are not enough young people to replace them. By the end of the decade - this will be undeniable and you will see what I mean.
I won't even engage with you on real estate because you obviously have no idea what you're talking about. You sound like somekind of nationalist or something that is just defending China nomatter what. Mark my words: The Chinese real estate sector is in crisis. You will know this soon
BTW - houses in 1st tier cities are just as expensive as in the west and if you compare those prices to the average income of the population - much more expensive than in western countries....and are shittier quality. If you are Chinese than you know exactly what I'm talking about.
China has bought off Africa and all of the countries in their belt and road. One reason they choose poor, developing countries is because they're desperate, easy to exploit and bribe their leaders. This way China can exploit them of their land and resources. It's a disgusting practice and hypocritical of a regime that complains about colonialism and imperialism. China has no real friends or allies - everybody who stands by them has been bought off with money, or fear.
China has rough times ahead of it. It's mismanagement of the economy, population, and geopolitics mean much slower growth for the rest of the decade - and stagnation after 2030. Like Japan, but much much worse
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@wolverine9377 Nobody actually knows what the real unemployment is in China because the government lies. They always say it's between 5-5.5%. By their own admission, they have stated that youth unemployment right now is 20%..which means it's probably more. Your comment about population shows your ignorance. In a population, you have some young, working age, and old..and not all populations are the same. China has the fastest aging population in human history - due to rapid urbanization and the one child policy. China has way too many old people, and not enough young people. It is losing immense amount of working age population every year because they are going into retirement age... and there are not enough young people to replace them. By the end of the decade - this will be undeniable and you will see what I mean.
I won't even engage with you on real estate because you obviously have no idea what you're talking about. You sound like somekind of nationalist or something that is just defending China nomatter what. Mark my words: The Chinese real estate sector is in crisis. You will know this soon
BTW - houses in 1st tier cities are just as expensive as in the west and if you compare those prices to the average income of the population - much more expensive than in western countries....and are shittier quality.
China has bought off Africa and all of the countries in their belt and road. One reason they choose poor, developing countries is because they're desperate, easy to exploit and bribe their leaders. This way China can exploit them of their land, resources, and UN votes. It's a disgusting practice and hypocritical of a regime that complains about colonialism and imperialism. China has no real friends or allies - everybody who stands by them has been bought off with money, or fear.
China has rough times ahead of it. It's mismanagement of the economy, population, and geopolitics mean much slower growth for the rest of the decade - and stagnation after 2030. Like Japan, but much much worse
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