Comments by "robs2020" (@sbor2020) on "Are we better off after Brexit? ‘There was NEVER a plan, it FAILED’ says Benjamin Butterworth" video.

I am sure you blame the previous Labour government for the expansion of higher education. Unwilling to relocate, to work for low wages, to work for zero hours contracts, to work seasonal jobs. Britian has become a low wage low growth economy, and it the work of the Brexiteers that required the this derregulation of the labour market and food standards, etc.
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@typhoon2827 It's not voting for anything, it's voting against a narrow-minded xenophobic view of the country, and of the continent. If I was in two minds in 2016, I only had to look at those leading the Leave campaign: Johnson, Gove, Rees-Mogg. That Johnson and Gove are not to be trusted is now common knowledge. My Slovak partner has lost freedom of movement in one country; I have lost it in 27!
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I am sure you'll provide evidence for this claim. What measures have been made to ensure that the UK is attached to the EU? Any parliamentary bills? Speeches in the Commons or the Lords? How is the 2019 government not a Brexit government when Boris Johnson withdrew the whip from 21 Tory MPs in July 2019. Under what circumstances didn't the government want to Leave? Evidence!!
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@Carl Collins “Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” Mark Twain
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@Carl Collins Billy Britain
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@dunholm1 You voted to take back control and trusted the good ol' boys like Johnson and Gove, and that gentleman Mr Rees-Mogg who promised sunlit uplands that await us. ... there will be broad, sunlit uplands (2019). But where are the sunlit uplands? Is that what you voted for? I shall deal with two main issues you raise: the failure to stand up to the EU on the NI protocol, and the failure to leave the ECHR. Firstly, the NI protocol. Some context: now when the UK joined the Common Market in 1973, there was the “Troubles” or irregular warfare between the two communities. The 1998 Good Friday Agreement was miraculous for someone like me growing up in the 1970’s. This agreement was signed by the governments of the Irish Republic, and the UK, it was underwritten by the EU, and chaired by the US. Powerful vested interests! Who would renege on this agreement? Surely not the Ulster Unionists who saw it as a betrayal? Surely not the opportunist Boris Johnson, the leader of the Conservative and Unionist Party? How does the EU deal with states that are divided into four countries and there is an international peace agreement between one of those counties and an EU country? In the unlikely event of Germany exiting and there was an international peace agreement between Saxony-Anhalt and Brandenburg, as the latter borders Poland (EU country), again it would be honoured! You can surely see what a bizarrely unique position that the UK is in. It was pointed out by those responsible for the GFA. Now remember you Brexiters were made three promises. (i) To leave the Single Market and Customs Union; (ii) that there would be no border between NI and GB; (iii) that there would be border between NI and Ireland (thereby honouring the 1998 GFA). It soon became clear that only TWO of these promises could be kept. To have all three is “cakism”, pie in the sky, it is the Brexit unicorn. Several options have been tried. Now (iii) and (i) is the Johnson “oven ready deal”, of course broke promise (ii), though of course Johnson denies this!! Another was to keep promises (i) and (ii) is what you want that reneges on the promise (iii) tears up the EU-UK trade as well as the Good Friday agreements, certainly no trade deal with the US, and it might possibly if done badly spark a trade war with EU. Is there a government that is ready to suffer the economic and political fallout from such a move? Truss could have been the PM foolish enough to do it! Finally, option to honour promises (ii) and (iii) was May’s 2018 deal with the “Irish backstop” thereby keeping the UK in the EU Customs Union and Single Market. This, of course, was rejected by the Commons and by more hardline Brexiters. Simply put, your Brexit delusions do not fit reality. As for the repeal of the Human Rights Act. Do you just want to accept UK legal decisions as final? For example, do you wish to accept the Hillsborough, 1989 accept the cover up rather than use the HRA to bring about a second inquiry? This government wants to strip you of your rights whilst using your hatred of the EU and the ECHR as a cover. GB News, Farage etc. legitimate this unspeakable tyranny. Don't say you were not warned. And anyway, was this even mentioned in the referendum campaign: moving the goalposts is part of a democratic mandate, is it?
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@dunholm1 Well done there; I admire you commitment to the cause. As for “foreign bureaucrats”, they are like civil servants and are not unelected, as they are in the UK! Is it because they are “foreign”? You mention _ foreign courts overturning laws made by our own Supreme Court_ , but the UK still has three judges in the ECJ and it still plays a role in UK justice. But rest assured that only Bahrain strips more of its citizens of their rights than the UK. I am glad that you’d _ happily live on bread and water_ for the rest of your days, especially with food shortages and the coming rationing. However, most people voted for Brexit to improve their lives. Not everyone has the mind of a Soviet willing to eats grubs if it brings the eventual Utopia; or the “Sunlit Uplands”, but you clearly have. As Jacob Rees-Mogg said recently in his Moggcast the British people didn't know what they were voting for in 2016. In 1975, people knew they were voting on the Treaty of Rome, whereas in 2016 they had no such treaty or agreement; it was a "jump in the dark" I hope people are starting to realise that you cannot deliver democracy from a top-down model of the state controlling people: it is authoritarian. As Thoreau said, the best government is no government! Getting passionate about creating real democracy from the bottom up: co-operatives, mutual aid is more exhilarating than being bitter about a "Brexit in name only". The Brexit revolution was delivered from above - not democratic by certain people in GB Towers and funded by Russian money. How democratic was that?
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@dunholm1 This is my claim and I stand by it. Not all people who disagree with you love the EU, but can also be libertarian socialists. Putting faith in Reform UK, or any kind of reform ism is counterproductive, as they are beholden to corporate interests and are in no way democratic. I hope people are starting to realise that you cannot deliver democracy from a top-down model of the state controlling people: it is authoritarian. As Thoreau said, the best government is no government! Getting passionate about creating real democracy from the bottom up: co-operatives, mutual aid is more exhilarating than being bitter about a "Brexit in name only". The Brexit revolution was delivered from above - not democratic by certain people in GB Towers and funded by Russian money. How democratic was that ?
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@iparipaitegianiparipaitegi4643 Is that the point he was making? Do you even know the point he was making?
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A little Englander whacko!
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@dunholm1 What are they doing? What is your evidence for this? You nonsense narrative of a "stolen Brexit". Stolen by the EU, by "remoaner" MPs. All bullsh!t claims never once supported with evidence. So now here is your chance to point to a parliamentary bill, or a speech in the Commons or Lords that supports your claim of a stolen Brexit .
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@Carl Collins Far-right groomer!
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@lumpyfishgravy It's not as if those corrupt leaders were not also leaders of the Leave campaign. Beat corruption by voting for corrupt leaders! Idiocy knows no bounds!
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@run2cat4run You think it is the work of "remoaners" rather than an abject failure of leaving the European Union and the Customs Union, do you?
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@johnfurey3593 This doesn’t give the bigger picture, does it? Sure the UK was one of the fasted growing economies after the extraordinary year we had in 2020. Then GDP growth fell by – 9.3 percent in 2020, but recovered in 2021 to 7.4 percent. This was followed by 3.6 percent in 2022, 0.3 in 2023, and is expected to grow 0.6 in 2024. It is not expected to return to anything resembling average growth until 2.3 percent in 2025. The big misleading statement by the government was that the UK was the fasted growing G7 nation. Compare – 9.3 percent in 2020 7.4 percent in 2021 to Germany – 3.7 percent in 2020 and 2.6 percent in 2021; and France – 7.9 in 2020 and 6.8 in 2021. Doing the maths, you will find France grew by 186 percent, to UK’s 179.57 percent to Germany’s 170.27 percent.
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@johnfurey3593 No France did not gow by 186%. Is that what I said? Read again.
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@johnfurey3593 More nonsense! Hungary had the fasted vaccine rollout. Best Covid response? 🤦🤦🤦🤦
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What happened four years ago you clown?
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What is your evidence for this? Boris Johnson withdrew the whip from 21 Tory MPs in July 2019. Not for being sex pests or liars, but for being against Brexit. In December 2019, the goverrnment won an 80 seat majority on the "Get Brexit done!" ticket. He got his "oven ready" deal done for implementation four years ago tomorrow. Under what circumstances didn't the government want to Leave? Evidence!!
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@typhoon2827 Clearly you're not here for the cut and thrust of intellectual debate, are you?
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@typhoon2827 Such as?
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@typhoon2827 Was Brexit or was it not a parochial, inward looking, "kick out the foreigners" type of little Englander insularity? If not, then I misunderstood the entire project, and neglected to find its outward looking cosmopolitanism!! Did I call you or the Brexit world-view xenophobic and narrow-minded?
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@typhoon2827 Is there a difference between a world-view and individual thinking? Yes and no: no world-view has a monopoly on an individual's thinking. However, you seem to have swallowed the Brexit idea in such a way so that any criticism of the world-view you take as a personal slight. If you don't like being termed a "cultist", don't act like one!
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You state so confidently everyone was well aware there would be short term economic disruption . Well anyone who did say this was quickly shouted down for spreading Project Fear . As I recall, those that supported the Leave campaign were upbeat and saying from day one that we will see the benefits. Don’t take my word: The day after we vote to leave, we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want . Michael Gove (9 April 2016). By “everyone”, do you mean readers of the tabloids? Compare BEFORE and AFTER 2016: Headline reads: Breaking free from the EU will send the cost of food tumbling, economic experts said . 2021: Headline reads: As Britons face Christmas shortages, top boss delivers wake-up call with stark warning, get used to higher food bills . 2017: Express headline reads: Idea that farming will collapse after Brexit is absurd . 2021: Headline from Express reads: Farming disaster: Brexiteer admits many farmers will go out of business due to EU exit . 2016: Express headline reads: More reason to leave: Brexit Britain to take back control of its fishing waters . 2021: An Express headline reads: We didn’t vote for this! Fishing collapse as UK firms go bust and exporters flee to EU_* . 2018: The Sun Online’s headline reads: Brexit health bonanza: NHS to get extra £384 million a week – that’s more than on the Brexit battle bus . 2021: The Sun Online’s headline reads: Social care wage raid: Boris and Rishi eye National Insurance hike to pay for social care – smashing Tory manifesto promise . You then state negative aspects have been made unnecessarily worse due to global events . Well, shouldn’t a government have an economic policy that can “shelter” from the effects of global economic forces? Would withdrawing from the world’s largest trading block on your doorstep thereby threaten to open the country up to economic crises? There have only been two instances of the Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) not carrying out a fiscal risk report. One was Brexit and the other was the Truss and Kwarteng “mini budget”. Now why was a fiscal risk assessment not carried out? According to the OBR imports are down 15 percent what it would be had the UK been in the EU.
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