Comments by "Ronin Dave" (@RoninDave) on "Is Anti-Muslim Bigotry The New McCarthyism?" video.

  1. Ah, the selective memory of the Harris fanboys! How many videos have TYT done on muslims doing some insane act over religion and yet they accuse TYT of being Islamic sympathizers and thus a terrorist sympathizer? Given Maher and Harris's hypocritical stance in regards to Israel I think it should be obvious what they are up to - by attacking Islam as a whole they can indirectly discredit the Palestinian argument. The disingenuousness streaming from them and their fanatical followers is rather nauseating. Where we are at this moment is a precarious position in which rational sensible attitudes need to prevail. We are seeing more and more examples of extremism cropping up in the middle east at the same time as a number of people in the West have become more islamaphobic while western powers continue to meddle in their affairs. Islamic terrorism did not spring out of a desert vacuum. All the various terrorist groups did not exist until relatively recently and they have been primarily reactionary. For this reason following Harris is almost as bad as following Fox because it lays the blame in the wrong direction and limits perception as a result.  If you are blaming Islamic terrorism with great emphasis on a cherry-picked comment from a 7th century merchant turned mystic you are seriously missing the bigger picture.
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  2. indian2012 does your psychiatrist know you're on the internet?
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  3. indian2012 do you need my help to show you how to insult properly (not too mention coherently)?
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  4. indian2012 deep breaths, deep breaths and count to 10 or better yet hold your breath and count to a zillion
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  5. DunkeyKonga incredible rebuttal
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  6. DunkeyKonga Well, I've lived in Egypt and spent time Israel if that helps any. Now go and make a coherent argument. You do realize a lot of bigots have jumped on Harris's wagon because they think having an "edumicated" guy seemingly on their side gives their anti-muslim rhetoric legitimacy? 
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  7. DunkeyKonga that makes sense in a way that doesn't make sense at all
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  8. Lark Macallan there has been condemnation of the hebdo attacks by muslims. Just because the news sources you use don't report them doesn't mean they aren't happening: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/07/muslims-respond-charlie-hebdo_n_6429710.html All you want to do is justify your bigotry. I'm not going to let you.
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  9. ***** and I'm saying that this literal reading is more of a reaction to recent history than just simply reading those texts literally.
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  10. Clark Kent thank you for proving my point
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  11. ***** who cares? It has little to do with the present situation. Any group which believes themselves to persecuted and wronged will use whatever doctrine, philosophy, ideology, etc... to justify their actions. This is how muslims are not different. You and the harris fanboys want to think you are so "aha! clever" because you point to some Koranic verses as a primary source for terrorism while disingenuously ignoring the past decades of the geo-politics of the region.
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  12. Realthx I certainly haven't mistaken the thin-skinness of Harris fans
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  13. indian2012 i like popcorn
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  14. indian2012 wow, not really holding back your A material, are you?
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  15. indian2012 you are arguing against psychedelic strawmen of your warped mind. I never said I was against Israel only that Maher and Harris support Israel more than Palestine. I'm in favor of a two-state solution as I'm in favor of you getting free mental care and a rubber room with a view.
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  16. Mattheaus The Apostate "Most of the criticism stems from Cenk's almost unbelievable ability to misrepresent those he disagrees with. " Hilarious because you do the same thing with this: "Yea, their worldview must revolve around the goal of destroying Palestin You really think this? " I said they favor Israel more than Palestine not that they want to destroy Palestine. I understand nuance is not a strong point with guys like you but try not to fall into the same trap you accuse others of doing.
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  17. ***** I would suggest looking at the individual politics of those areas to gain a better understanding rather than lazily saying it's the fault of some words written in the 7th century
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  18. Mattheaus The Apostate discredit the Palestinian argument does not mean destroy it, you exaggerating muppet and yes that was an ad hominem. Try not to wear out your thesaurus in your effort to be seen as clever.
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  19. Mattheaus The Apostate conceding what points? Stop assuming, pal. It's embarrassing for you and your smug posturing. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/18/bill-maher-hamas-crazy-woman-tweet_n_5598211.html https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=15&v=0CnLJI00i1w  I don't say they want Palestine destroyed but that they favor Israel more than Palestine not as a state for judaism but rather as a secular western-influenced state. They see Hamas more as a result of "crazy Islamists" with roots in 7th century rhetoric rather than a reactionary result of the ongoing decades of conflict, occupation, and oppression. 
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  20. Mattheaus The Apostate dear lord, you're one of those literalists that has to be led by the hand, aren't you? Those links show they have less than a fair and balanced opinion on the matter especially Maher. The fact that Palestinians voted for the Hamas shows that a majority of them are fed up with the situation of occupation and oppression and the eroding of their land by settlers. Not the smartest decision but under the circumstances understandable. This is why I said rational sensibility is needed not people like Maher and Harris throwing more fuel on the fire from the left side which the right has long been feeding.
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  21. indian2012 mmmm...popcorn!
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  22. Mattheaus The Apostate I have harvested a cornucopia of corny kookiness! I've got two nonsensical posters commenting random capslock nonsense then there's you who demands that they be addressed as though what they had anything to say that was worth responding to. The three of you do a good job of showing what others have been saying about Harris fanboys - thin-skinned, elitist, pseudo-intellectual, and ultimately ill-informed despite their "thesauritc" vocabulary. Brilliant! I thank you all for your contributions.
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  23. Mattheaus The Apostate thank you for proving my point! And thank you for the laughs!
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  24. indian2012 yeah, that's just rather pedestrian and boringly predictable. You really need to work on your material.
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  25. DunkeyKonga neither you nor indianfellow have said anything worth responding to except with derision. Rambling capslock ranting is not an argument. And you cannot get pissy about ad hominem when you do the same! Hypocritical, much? However it is cute you defending him! Melts my heart. Can I get a wedding invite? 
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  26. DunkeyKonga you haven't made an argument, doofus, except to whine ad hominem despite using them yourself. Your first responses were enough to show you weren't worth responding to except to laugh at and see how long you'll keep responding with nonsense.
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  27. ***** no you would not because you don't now. If historical and contemporary evidence that is before you and available to you now is not enough nothing is or will be. And I'm not about to launch into some dissertation to satisfy some thickheaded anonymous twerp on youtube!
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  28. indian2012 damn, I said congrats to congratulate you on getting your capslock button fixed but apparently I spoke to soon. I know a few system engineers who could quote you a fair price if you are interested.
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  29. indian2012 but not your comments
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  30. DunkeyKonga look at your first response and realize I will only keep mocking you until that sinks in or I get bored.
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  31. ***** we're just going in circles, pal. Nothing you will say at this point will convince me nor I you. You want to shudder in fear of a random assortment of muslims who have far less power than us despite the fear-mongering certain media and individuals engage in. Your way leads to justify more deeds that caused a lot of this to begin with.
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  32. Lark Macallan when hypocritical christians are called out there is little worry that christians as a whole will be discriminated in the US whereas muslims have been because people have it in their head thanks to Fox on one side and people like Harris on the other that muslims can't be trusted
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  33. Lark Macallan Have you forgotten the Sikh Temple shooting? The idiot didn't know the difference but he attacked it because he thought they were muslim. http://www.loonwatch.com/2013/01/anti-muslim-violence-spiralling-out-of-control-in-america/ http://www.newsweek.com/quiet-campaign-violence-against-american-muslims-64443 http://www.salon.com/2011/03/03/hatemongering/ http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn/middle-eastern-shopkeepers-scared-lives-article-1.1204187 http://thinkprogress.org/security/2012/12/10/1312341/hate-crimes-against-muslims-remain-near-decade-high/
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  34. Lark Macallan I listed several sources detailing just that - a trend towards anti-muslim behavior in the last several years from discrimination, to assaults, to murder.
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  35. Lark Macallan yes it is a current problem despite your willingness to bury your head in the sand over it. Most of the jihadist activities is primarily a response to our continual meddling. Idiots like you just add fuel to an already raging fire.
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  36. ***** why did they not do this until relatively recently in their 1300 year history?
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  37. ***** not really or no more than any other group. Who conquered the Americas? Who set up imperialistic colonies all over the world? 
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  38. ***** And where is the Ottoman Empire now? Did they go to America or into the Far East? This may come as a complete shock to you but Islam is not and has not been a monolithic force. Muslims have fought each other just as much as Europeans have, Native Americans, Asians, etc... and yet the ill-informed and the willingly ignorant treat Islam as such.
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  39. Lark Macallan considering it is primarily muslims who are getting killed both by terrorists and as collateral damage in our wars while being blamed as a whole for every extremist act by people on the right and the left in the US they are kind of victims. I don't feel the need to dump on them as whole because they happen to share a similar faith with people like ISIS.
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  40. indian2012 coherency is not your forte, is it?
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  41. ***** did not bring up the Pew Poll or do you not believe it? The fact that ISIS did not exist until after the Iraq invasion and occupation is proof you are wrong. Actions have consequences. It's time you learned that.
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  42. ***** you do have a bias and that is clear in your arguments as you treat muslims as a monolithic group and somehow different than other groups.
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  43. ***** Are you seriously this dense? Do you think they have just watched all this with indifference? They have watched the western powers on one hand say they aren't at war with islam while waging war in Iraq, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan and threatening war with Iran. Meanwhile many have become been detained, jailed, and tortured in western countries while pundits/politicians/citizens have publicly blamed Islam for the terrorism and thinking muslims are prone to terrorism. This is why I have continually said the fundamentalism that is rising in Islamic corresponds directly with the above mentioned trends.
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  44. indian2012 No I'll walk proudly laughing at your insanity. You need to grow up and take some medication as prescribed by a good psychiatrist. 
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  45. indian2012 your use of capslock and childish angry words don't make your "argument" any more compelling, convincing, or coherent.
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  46. indian2012 You do realize that I have no intention of actually "discussing" anything with the likes of you when you are clearly deranged and childish, right? I'm just enjoying watching you come back again and again in all your self-righteous lunatic fury. Think I'll pop some more popcorn.
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  47. mthakore so is aurangzeb representative of the whole of islam because he didn't choose to follow the policy of religious pluralism of his predecessors?  The Mughals and Ghurids were conquerors who justified their conquests thru their faith as countless groups have done thru-out history.
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  48. mthakore and you are making the same error others here are by making muslims one monolithic force who are responsible for every individual action. 
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  49. ***** With Boko Haram look to the political situation of Nigeria. They did not just come about because one day they were having Koran reading and decided to go on this path. 911 - you are being blind. If you think they flew into those buildings because the US is the great satan then you are a horribly misguided fool. 911 occurred after decades of us meddling in middle eastern affairs particularly the first Gulf War. What you are too blind to see in your pseudo-intellectual assault on the whole of muslim-dom is that these all those actions that you mention have all occurred in recent times. The fundamentalism has grown at the same time as our steady meddling as. Did ISIS throw gays off of buildings prior to the Iraq War? No, they didn't even exist before that.
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  50. mthakore Are all christian sects the same because each has the same verse in their Bibles saying they should stone homosexuals? Are all Hindu sects the same or Buddhists? You so desperately want to lump 1.5 billion people into the same category in order to justify your hatred of them. 
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  51. mthakore And yet there are christians who still look to those verses as justifications to hate on homosexuals. Hindus don't care what Buddha said otherwise there wouldn't be any Hinduism. My point was that you cannot throw a huge blanket over a vast number of people and say they are the same which you keep doing with Islam. It is not an intellectual honest approach and it shows your underlying bias.
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  52. mthakore any ideology can be used to justify anything. That's human nature and not something special to Islam. Your stance will lead to nothing but more death, oppression, and bigotry because you justify your actions and beliefs on your hatred of Islam.
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  53. mthakore spoken like a true fanatic
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  54. mthakore thank you for proving my point
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  55. ***** yes a poll that came out after more than a decade of continuous warfare in the middle east and decades of meddling while watching pundits on both the right&left disparage Islam.
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  56. mthakore and that will do nothing to convince muslims except that you hate them
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  57. mthakore again you're a fanatic
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  58. ***** The hadiths have long been argued over by scholars and I mentioned ISIS because they have thrown homosexuals from a high place recently. What am I trying to get across to you and others like you is that these people are in conflict and they are drawing on their roots looking for anything to steel their resolve and identity. Homosexuality has long been a part of islamic areas particularly among the ruling classes. 
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  59. mthakore spoken like a true fanatic - deja vu! 
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  60. mthakore and again thank you for proving my point! In case you haven't figured out yet stuck in your fanatical frame of mind as you are that you are not going to convince me nor I you so spare us further intellectual debate of how much you hate Islam.
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  61. mthakore and none of that will change the fact that ISIS came out of the US's invasion of Iraq, that the US overthrew the Iranian government in the 50s hence why things are so volatile now with the nuclear talks, that the Allied European powers created countries without thought to the people within and without the boundaries post WWI, that Americans and Europeans have continually meddled in middle eastern politics for the sake of oil and geo-political power... but no all of it is the fault of the words of a 7th century merchant-turned-mystic
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  62. ***** now you are waffling - you are angry that I say you are condemning the whole muslim world yet several times you have said muslims are different than other groups. It seems you have a different standard in judging them compared to others.
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  63. mthakore the iranian hate of us is religious? You really are gullible aren't you? You sound like one of the idiots who think this is some kind of armageddon between religions. With Iran the US overthrew their democratically elected leader, supported a dictator who machine-gunned down allies, and supported Iraq in their war against Iran which killed many Iranians. Yes those boundaries make a difference. We can see the result of that in what happened in Yugoslavia - a country created from the outside. When the Iron Curtain fell, the country soon fell apart into bloody civil war.   Mexico and India fought to be free over their colonial overlords and made their country from the inside. Your hatred has made you simple-minded.
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  64. ***** If muslims took those hadiths and quran so seriously why is there history of homosexuality throughout the islamic world, the drinking of wine (Omar Khayyam), tolerance towards people of other religions, etc...? Again you are making generalizations and blanket statements saying Muslims are different when they are not. You are looking from the outside in and reading verses without context historical or cultural which ironically is what many of the extremists do as well.
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  65. mthakore and you have asked all Iranians? They could care less about a war that killed over a million? Again your hatred has made you simple-minded. You offer nothing of substance except to say Islam is evil like a fanatic.
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  66. mthakore spoken like a true fanatic. FYI crazy people don't think they're crazy - that's why they're crazy
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  67. ***** do you actually have a point or do wish to just be pointlessly nitpicky?
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  68. ***** Islamic terrorism didn't just spring up because some people had a heady koranic session one day so your idea is stupid and pointless. Islam is a part of it but not the whole of it.
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  69. ***** that has happened everywhere. Stop "othering" Islam like a naive muppet. People particularly ambitious leaders will use anything to motivate people to support them in their conquests.
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  70. ***** And I maintain that looking at Islamic history and the differences from the past to the present given the historical/cultural context much of what we are seeing is the consequences of our actions.
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  71. ***** was that clip supposed to enlighten me? All I saw was that you are like the reporter looking for simple answers to complex issues and ignoring someone trying to give the context and nuance.  Watch this instead: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GU2avVIHde8
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  72. ***** You do know that there are wars and terrorism in South America and christian Africa, right? FFS you keep showing your ignorance. They may not be blowing themselves up but neither were muslims until the 1980s.
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  73. ***** muslims are different in your mind because you are too ignorant to understand that they are not. The extreme examples are not representative of the whole 1.5 billion
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  74. Lark Macallan so what's your answer? Kill them all?  As to where are the condemnations of ISIS - um, dipshit it has primarily been muslims both sunni and shia fighting and dying in fighting ISIS. You are aware of this, right? You are so ignorant. For example female genital mutilation is not an arab custom and has been practiced long before Islam. FFS if you are going to criticize fucking learn something about what you are criticizing.
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  75. ***** oh, please! Irrelevant is your poor understanding of history trying to make muslims as somehow different from other groups in history, Your bias clouds your objectivity.
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  76. DunkeyKonga as do you 
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  77. Lark Macallan your criticism of them as a whole is not going to motivate them to reform and will do more to aid groups like ISIS. It's unproductive.
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  78. indian2012 congrats!
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  79. Lark Macallan you're the cancer of your own mind. Female genitalia mutilation pre-dates Islam and did not originate in Arabia.
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  80. ***** I didn't say the US is responsible for ISIS beheading people but that we are responsible for the consequences such as the rise of such groups like ISIS. Why will you not get it thru your thick skull that our past and current way of dealing with things has been disastrous? Pointing at Dark Age texts is not going to do anything except infuriate more people because you refuse to listen. It is unproductive. And I have shown you time and time again evidence how Western influence has caused this rise in fundamentalism such as the creation of ISIS and you continue to stick your fingers in your ears and go back to your same talking point again and again and again. You and I are never going to agree on this. Deal with it. I don't care.
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  81. ***** you've got nothing except your burning desire to lie the misdeeds of islamic terrorism at the feet of a 7th century guy without thought how insulting this to a billion people many whom are fighting against and dying to this terrorism and to the bombs of the west.  All you are doing is spinning the same thing again and again and again offering nothing new. We are not going to agree. And nothing I provide will satisfy your vague and disingenuous request. 
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  82. ***** Yes, you do because that is the point you keep coming back to. You're like Governor Pence saying he is anti-discrimination but signs a discriminatory law. ISIS is not the only example. I shouldn't have to point out the obvious history that is available to you. Al Queda - formed in the aftermath of the Russian-Afghan War which we trained many of. When the Saudis ignored Bin Laden's request to handle Saddam preferring to use the US which led to US troops in Saudi. This Bin Laden used to steel resolve to resist the West. Al Queda did not spring up out of just some dusky dark age texts. Taliban - came into being during the local wars waged in the vacuum left after both Russia and the US abandoned the area. PLO/Hamas - these came into existence in direct reaction to Israel which they saw wrongly as a neo-crusader state. People voted for the Hamas in reaction to what they see as continual occupation and oppression and erosion of their land to settlers which the Israeli government does little to curtail. Boko Haram - only started in the 2000s in Nigeria a place which has had a long history with colonialism. They formed in opposition to corruption and poverty where most of the wealth is held by westernized christians while the rest of the country gets by only barely a dollar a day. Hezbollah - came into creation in response to the Israeli invasion in the 1980s. Iran - Iran had a democratically elected government which the US overthrew in the 50s installing a dictator who had protestors gunned down. When he was overthrown the US supported Iraq in their Iraq-Iran War which killed hundreds of thousands. Is there little wonder why they distrust America and fund any anti-american terrorism to get some payback? The Muslim Brotherhood - formed in the early 20th century with the stated goal of resisting foreign imperialism. Now given that most if not all of these groups arose as reactions to situations around them would it not lead one to think that perhaps just perhaps Western meddling has had more influence in creating these terrorist groups and their extremist mentality than just some particularly harsh lines of text? Also your anecdote of burning a woman alive for burning a koran where did that happen? Afghanistan - a place torn apart by war for decades but before all that in the 50s and 60s it was a more tolerant place making an effort towards modernization until it all went to hell in the 70s with Cold War shenanigans.  Lebanon was as well until the Israel bombed the Beirut airport in their crackdown of the PLO. This helped to lead to the inevitable civil war. Even countries not affected by all this are not blind, deaf, and dumb. They have watched the West on one hand say they are not at war with Islam yet get involved in one war after another in Islamic countries while politicians/pundits/citizens on both sides of the political spectrum disparage Islam blaming the Koran and the Hadiths for the violence.  Even people like you and Harris while acknowledging western influence will still primarily rest your case on the roots of Islam which does little to make muslims want to reform themselves because of the disingenuousness of your arguments. They see western imperialism as a greater area of concern than they do the need to reform because if they reform there is no guarantee whatsoever that western meddling and exploitation will stop and right or wrong at least the extremists in some of their minds are the only ones resisting out-of-control greedy western capitalism.
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  83. ***** I gave you example after example and you do a Governor Pence. Spare me all the bullshit "I realize western influence but..."  People like you are not needed in this discourse because you unwittingly and stupidly add fuel to the fire with your lack of empathy and knowledge. If Islam reformed itself tomorrow western meddling would not cease and they would just become secular terrorists fighting western imperialism. We'd be back to where we started because we refuse to change the way we do business which is to exploit developing countries and prop up corrupt dictatorial governments. It's not just history but now. Can you not get that thru your thick skull?  Fuck being polite. You are infuriating in your disingenuous return to the same fucking talking point again and again which I have repeatedly rebuked. Do you not get this? Nothing you say will change my mind because you have nothing except some out-of-context dusty texts that a billion people follow to various degrees and hell you hardly have that as you just paraphrase what you have overheard. I want to defeat these groups but I know going after the Koran is an idiotic military blunder as we have already seen ISIS and Boko using anti-islamic sentiments from the likes of Fox and Harris to recruit followers.  Rule of war, kid, you don't aid your enemy by helping his cause thru stupid PR that they turn around and use against us. "One need not destroy one's enemy. One need only destroy his willingness to engage." - Sun Tzu This is why blaming the Koran at this point in time is foolish and counter-productive. If this were Ancient China Sun Tzu would have muppets like you executed for impending victory. First we need to assure the countless numbers of muslims we are not at war with Islam and put pressure on muppets like Fox and Harris to shut up, build up their infrastructure and let them have elections even if they are against us, slowly sap away the terrorists' recruitment strength by aiding not bombing, and as they begin to lose numbers quietly track down and arrest the ones we know for a fact committed the atrocities but let the locals try and execute them. I particularly want Jihadi John to be executed no matter what peace arrangements we make. While on the homefront, we publicly slam blatant anti-muslim sentiments and actions showing such will not be tolerated. Then we need to stop meddling in their affairs for our own gain without their say-so - however this won't happened until we reign in Wallstreet and the World Bank. Only after that when the dust settles and wars are not raging and we aren't seen as imperialists do we aid the reformers thru non-profit organizations and send in Amensty International and the like to help the persecuted minorities. And then we begin open discussions about the reforming of Islam and shaking off Wahabism. 
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  84. ***** leave the internet
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  85. Lark Macallan no, it's not it's just that you don't piss off allies, potential allies, and potential enemies with careless words in the middle of a war thus aiding the enemy - an enemy which has been capitalizing on western criticism of Islam from both right and left to recruit more followers. One need not destroy one's enemy. One need only destroy his willingness to engage. - Sun Tzu ISIS wants us to both go after them and attack Islam in rhetoric at the same time. It helps their cause and similar groups. We need to take that from them and sap their strength and morale. I'm tired of idiots rendering them aid unwittingly and stupidly. If I had my way, I'd have you executed for gross stupidity in the face of the enemy.
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  86. mthakore some of us are interested in actually stopping the conflict without adding to it wittingly or unwittingly while stopping our incessant short-sighted meddling in the affairs of others. People like you just want to talk about how evil Islam is which does nothing productive except do the work of ISIS, Boko Haram, and Al Queda
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  87. Fellow Path Man to be honest I was on my way to work and only chose to address one point which he had exaggerated. When he started demanding I concede to points I hadn't addressed or even looked at at that time I had to roll my eyes and laugh since it was typical internet behavior that I find childish and pseudo-intellectual.
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  88. ***** 1300 years of jihad? Oh, please spare me the hammy melodramatics! Who was it that took over the Americas slaughtering the inhabitants by various means? And no they are not unique in their response if you had any real understanding of history.
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  89. mthakore no proving my point that you are a fanatic and of course you missed my earlier points about lumping 1.5 billion together. 
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  90. mthakore harris doesn't help reformers like her and certainly not his fanboy base who want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
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  91. mthakore and helps ISIS recruit and get support. I want to fix our problems first which set off so many of these problems and sap the support ISIS and AL Queda are getting
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  92. ***** We need to first stop fucking with other people's business. Until that happens we will be continued to be seen as exploiting hypocrites telling other people how they should behave.
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  93. ***** that's rich of you to talk about martyrdom when we have people in the US saying Obama is bringing the end times - a number of them are elected officials. Clean house before you demand someone else to clean theirs.
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  94. ***** ISIS did not spring out of Koranic verses. It came about from our illegal invasion and incompetent occupation. You are missing the real danger that the world is facing from corporatists. Terrorist attacks are futile pinpricks of a relatively powerless people. 
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  95. ***** no, it does not. What it shows is that terrorist groups have predominately been reactionary groups to situations they often did not create.
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  96. ***** how do you explain the behavior of the billion of muslims who don't act like ISIS and don't like ISIS?
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  97. ***** women were also oppressed in other countries and cultures for many of hundreds of years. Again nothing unique in regards to Islam. We have Christians in the US who want gays stoned. Most however because of the climate are too frightened to say what they really feel but their disingenuous anti-gay arguments shows it would take very little to convince them to stone gays if they wouldn't be condemned for it.
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  98. ***** but the bigger problem is not them but the exploitative nature of our policies which resulted in these behaviors
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  99. ***** never said anything of the sort. Nice strawman. What I am saying is the bigger problem is our exploitative tendencies which have pushed the world into these wars and to the brink of environmental disaster.
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  100. mthakore That's about a junior high school level of an insult. I thought you were young but not that young. So much for your claims you travel a lot.   Do you have anything of substance to offer except badly done insults and horrible analogies that show a poor understanding of history. You do Harris a disservice.
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  101. ***** and our policies are having a much bigger impact that go beyond just the middle east and hence why they need to be addressed first and foremost.
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  102. ***** as were the vikings at their point of time, the mongols at their point of time, the aztecs at their point of time, etc... 
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  103. ***** no, you want to continually avoid  the geopolitical situations that have given rise to this terrorism including suicide bombing in order to support your pet crusade against Islam. Your arguments are not convincing because they are generalized and founded in ignorance and bias.  
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  104. Lark Macallan back at you - it's all ISLAM! It's all MOHAMED's fault! The difference is I understand history and human nature better than you do but that's probably because you're about 15 given the maturity level of your postings.
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  105. mthakore someone needs to arrest you for your abuse of history
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  106. mthakore false equivalence. 
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  107. ***** it certainly was a major factor since you didn't have ISIS when the Ottomans were stagnating
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  108. ***** let's just ignore our corporatist tendencies which makes us fuck with other countries and throw rocks.
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  109. mthakore and preach to the already converted ie mainly people who aren't muslim. That'll do wonders. Reform needs to come from the inside.
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  110. ***** A red herring? No, just because you want to make muslims out to be this unique and terrible thing does not make that a red herring.
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  111. mthakore nonsense you're buying into neo con BS which wants us to bomb and occupy. Harris would have us peering thru dusty texts preaching to the choir while bombs continue to fall and as we fill our cars with their oil.
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  112. mthakore yeah, thanks for confirming my suspicions. Further discussion with you is pointless as you have nothing to offer but childish insults which show your maturity level and you have yet to show anything resembling an actual argument. You do Harris a disservice making his supporters look like you - though actually this is a common complaint so I guess his critics should thank you for proving their point. You're blocked. Come back when you grow up and have an actual argument that you have the courage to put a face behind.
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  113. Ryan McNally Neither the Mormons nor the muslims began the war. Rather quibbling over a 6th century passage look over the last century to see the meddling and exploitation that has occurred in the Islamic countries by western powers.  With the end of WWI, the place was carved up with little thought to the peoples within the borders and puppet regimes were installed. When Iran had enough and elected a leader who promised or threatened from our perspective to nationalize the oil reserves the CIA overthrew and a dictator was put in power. We supported Saddam Hussein in his war against the Iranians which led to hundreds of thousands of deaths. Later we invaded the country, deposed our former ally, occupied the country with mercenaries pardon me contractors and when a number of the people had had enough they joined ISIS. You lot want to waste time on unproductive talks about how bad you think Mohamed was 1300 years ago rather than the geopolitics situations which have had far more impact.
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  114. Wesley Geubermann partially some are paid shills (the usual suspects you see pushing the same Islam=evil agenda) but others are just lazy or intellectually dishonest because they can't admit they're just racists
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  115. mthakore our actions and words are where they get their support. Everytime a bomb falls, everytime a drone kills citizen bystanders, everytime Fox and Harris say Islam is bad, everytime we add to their propaganda 
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  116. ***** do you think the solution is to tell muslims their religion is inherently bad? Will that make them stop? Will that stop our meddling and exploitation in their countries? Magically whisking away Islam will not stop terrorism. 
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  117. ***** are we bombing, invading, occupying, meddling, detaining, imprisoning, degrading, criticizing,  etc... those countries and people to the level we are in the Middle East currently and in recent history? Are we talking about how bad those people's culture/religion/society to the point we are of Islam? We aren't bombing Argentina while detaining Argentinians in the US for very little reason, treating them suspicious when they get on flights, putting them into a prison for years with little to no evidence, debating the demerits of their culture, etc.... Are you seriously this clueless to what has been going on? ISIS didn't exist until after our invasion. Al Queda didn't exist until the USSR invaded Afghanistan and we funded and trained the resistance there. Later when US put troops in Saudi Arabia as a permanent force, Al Queda became anti-American in response. The PLO/Hamas didn't exist until after WWI and WWII when they were resisting Israeli expansion into land they previously held. Hezbollah didn't exist until after the Lebenese War which was a by product of Israel's struggle with the Palestinian. Do you not see how most if not all these islamic terror groups arose relatively recently and as responses to the situations?
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  118. mthakore you're not making any sense? I live in Japan because it doesn't have many muslims? What? Tinfoil hat getting tight?
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  119. mthakore No it makes no sense because there are muslims in Japan. I've talked with them. There are arabic teachers at language schools. There are mosques in Japan.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Japan Japan and Turkey have had a very strong goodwill relationship with one another for more than a century. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan%E2%80%93Turkey_relations Once again you show your appalling ignorance. 
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  120. mthakore I don't work for the Japanese government so why don't you check with them? But your assertion that I live in Japan because it is "anti-muslim" by your piss poor understanding (they're more anti-chinese) is ridiculous. I realize you lot can't deal in actual facts and analysis so you switch to sophomoric distractions on a completely unrelated issue. Sad, really.
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  121. ***** they hardly take any muslim or otherwise but read this if you are so concerned: http://www.barenakedislam.com/2012/09/21/bni-response-to-the-viral-email-re-islam-and-japan/
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  122. mthakore let's go back - so you say because I object to Harris and his fanboy's criticism of Islam (due to it's ignorance, arrogance, and lack of overall EQ) I don't like Islam so much that I decided to go to Japan because according to you Japan is rabidly anti-muslim? Have I got that correct? Is that how your brain is functioning at the moment?
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  123. mthakore uh huh. How much is your therapy costing these days? 
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  124. mthakore nah, you're just a jealous coward who can't put a face behind your convictions. Harris would be so proud!
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  125. ***** defending Islam from Japan? No I'm defending knowledge from your ignorance as I have been through this whole thing.
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  126. mthakore you're jealous of anyone who has a life and knows more than you do (not like that is hard). Look, here you are making childish remarks about someone's physical appearance because you can't handle yourself in an argument - Harris would be so proud!
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  127. mthakore easily refuted is what i have done with you lot with actual facts opposed to your base generalizations
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  128. mthakore ah, the jealous is strong with you! Look, just make an effort to actually learn something. Go travel or something. Get a life while you're at when you grow up.
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  129. mthakore Really? So Al Queda didn't come about as a result of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and the US funding and training the resistance followed by a resentment of US troops in Saudi Arabia? So ISIS did not come about as a result of our stupid and illegal invasion of Iraq? So the Hamas did not come about because of a Palestinian resistance towards Israeli expansion?
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  130. mthakore indirectly? You disingenuous fuckstick! If there had been no Soviet invasion and US counter-invasion plans there would have been no Al Queda. If there had been no US invasion of Iraq there would be no ISIS. If the CIA had not overthrown Iran's elected leader supporting a dictator for decades there would have been no Ayatollah. When people are pushed to the brink they will draw on unifying elements to bind them together and strengthen their resolve. 
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  131. mthakore Your assertion is ridiculous as I have nothing to do with any such policies. As it is I lived in Egypt and would like to go back soon. And you don't travel. You have all the attitude of a know-it-all you is so insecure because you know deep down you don't and you've never been anywhere. You're just a typical anonymous internet commentator too cowardly to put a face or name behind their convictions. 
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  132. mthakore nah, ya don't. You're so easy to read - all the usual trademarks of a do-nothing know-nothing sniveling coward. Prove me wrong.
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  133. mthakore sure you do....
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  134. ***** I completely support Malala Yousafzai but I do not support Harris. Why? Malala is of that culture, she understands it better than him or you. Her way is not to throw stones but to get people to come around on their own. She has inspire many people by her bravery and courage. I see no courage in throwing stones from the outside.
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  135. mthakore nah, we both know that's not true
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  136. mthakore what you are saying makes no sense at all
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  137. mthakore The thing is I have historical analysis which you guys lack as you can't comprehend how history and people work. You just want to lazily point to the Quran and say "Isis? Quran!" "Al Queda? Quran!" "Boko Haram? Quran!" and call it a day. Color me not impressed by your brilliant analysis. I'm assuming you must be fairly young with your childish comparing of me with creationists and climate change deniers. You're about at that sophomoric level of understanding. Go back to reddit or 4chan.
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  138. ***** educate yourself, son. All you have done is given generalizations nothing illuminating. I have shown you the circumstances which brought up specific terrorists groups and you have continually brushed it aside to say "yeah but some doctrines I haven't read said something something jihad"
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  139. ***** "Are you seriously saying that because a terrorist group emerges in the aftermath of a Western intervention, that terror group is therefore the fault of the West?" Trying to give context to the rise of terrorist groups is not saying the acts of terror are the fault of the West. You're being very dishonest here. And - they are attacking? All muslims? Be careful with your rhetoric. Hebdo was an attack by two crazies who grew up in a society that has anti-muslim sentiments and their path to madness began in reaction to the US invasion of Iraq.  Apparently you want to say that muslims should not be able to protest over what they see as insulting pictures.
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  140. ***** what facts did you present except broad generalizations and parroted talking points? You throw phrases around like "1300 years of jihad" as though that were supposed to mean something as though Islam were this monolithic force rather than being the faith of a billion people with a variety of ethnicity, languages, cultures, customs, sects, etc... When was the last time "Islam was spread by the sword"? The Ottomans were more interested in conquest than conversion and their growth stagnated over 3 centuries ago while the Europeans were busy taking over the Americas and Australia and forcing themselves into the affairs of Asia.  I don't feel that you and to a degree Harris understand enough about the vast variety of the people of Islam nor basic historical analysis in order to make an effective criticism of Islam that would be constructive.
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  141. Lark Macallan hebdo was an individual attack by two men who grew up in France and had been affected by the US invasion of Iraq. Al Queda was formed and partially trained by the CIA to fight the Soviets who had been invading Afghanistan. Their animosity towards the US began when after the first Gulf War, the US put troops in Saudi Arabia. Just trying to pin all that on Islam is lazy intellectually dishonest.
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  142. ***** I neither trust you or Harris but especially not you to know enough about Islamic countries in order to give them any advice worth a damn. I know I don't know everything about them but I don't take on this pretentious (and pseudo-intellectual) attitude that I do or that most of their problems come from one source. All I see you doing is is speaking in broad generalizations. And you continue to refuse to acknowledge the geopolitics situations which play a greater role in all this (just saying you concede then preceding with the exact talking points again and again and again is not acknowledging them). At the end of the day if Muslims reformed Islam or did away with it yesterday, it would not change the terrorism because the terrorism didn't come about because there are words in an old book. It came about as a response to certain situations. In short there is no point in further discussion because we are both repeating the same points again and again. I don't find your arguments convincing nor yours mine and nothing either of us will do will change that.
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  143. ***** Try to put yourself into someone else's shoes for once. You're not saying their culture is shit? Well good for you! That is not coming across at all. Remember Harris' words? Motherlode of bad ideas. That doesn't sound like someone who has an interest in reforming Islam and try try try try try to get it through your head from a muslim perspective they are seeing the West invade, occupy, meddle, detain, etc.... while people like you are telling them that they have some bad ideas at the core of their religion. Where the fuck are your sense of priorities? "Leaders in the West and most of the Western media have been pathetic in their attempt to address this issue. " You're an idiot. How is a broad criticism of Islam going to make any difference with ISIS and the like? You're not going to convince people who are outside of your group to change when you belong to a group with a history of exploitation, meddling, invasion, etc.. of the previous group. Can you not see how Harris and people like you just unwittingly aid ISIS? What would be better is to treat each country individually and apply pressure to those respective governments to respect the rights of the oppressed while aiding those liberal progressive groups in those countries. Yes, there are liberal movements in Islam but IMHO Harris' approach makes their job harder. What you and he show is an outsider's ignorance because it comes off as though you are treating Islam almost like it were one country, culture, and people. You already showed you didn't understand the situation of Iraqi and the divide amongst the people there. It's like treating all medieval Europe the same because they were all Catholics while ignoring their different languages, cultures, customs, etc...
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  144. ***** And I'm saying those issues have been and are present in other societies which makes Islam not unique in that regard. The difference is we are not attacking the shining path or the IRA for their religious/cultural beliefs. We keep our criticism confined to their individual actions and beliefs not the culture they are apart of. With ISIS and the like I find people like you and Harris disingenuous and dishonest as your focus is less on the terrorism and the conditions which created them but rather on the people as a whole. Religion is a part of a people's identity and culture and what you are saying to muslims in general as our culture bombs, invades, occupies, exploits, meddles, arrests, detains, and condemns muslim countries, muslim people, and Islam is that their core culture and identity is shit and irredeemable. And this is why ISIS and the like is able to recruit because they point both to rightwingers who say Islam is evil and to liberals like Harris who say Islam is evil and go "See? The West hates you!" This is very effective for many impressionable muslim youths living in Western countries who see and hear people around them from both sides acting as though muslims are some kind of mysterious "Other" who need to be killed or reformed from the outside as though they were primitives and children who can't make their own decisions.
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  145. Lark Macallan quiet, child. It's past your bedtime.
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  146. ***** what facts? You keep saying facts and yet all you deliver are generalizations where I have given specific circumstances which have had led to the creation of those terrorist groups. You don't know enough to even have an argument.
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  147. ***** and you are eaten up with anger and hostility towards something you don't understand. Your approach will do nothing but fuel ISIS propaganda. Go educate yourself!
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  148. mthakore what you are saying make no sense
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