Comments by "David Himmelsbach" (@davidhimmelsbach557) on "Your Perception of the WW2 Eastern Front is Wrong" video.

Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn was the first author to detail the usage of penal formations. He met the survivors that you dispute existed while he was in the gulag.Victor Suvorov ( a pen name ) the ex-GRU man wrote up the penal formations. Peek into "The "Liberators"" ISBN 0-425-10631-4 -- it's his autobiographical account of 3-25-66 thru 10-12-68 and his daze invading all the way to Prague.Even better is "Inside the Soviet Army" where Suvorov goes into all kinds of gritty details. You'll want to jump straight to "The Corrective System" where Suvorov goes into explicit detail. (p240+)The 'marching through the minefields' detail comes from a film made by Eastern Europeans ( Hungary, IIRC ) I can't remember the name, but it was still on YouTube less than six-weeks ago. It's yet another autobiographical account - but set to film.The NKVD created so many penal battalions that 16 were used at Stalingrad alone. And of those 16, most would've been wiped out three times in one day. (!!!) They were structured such that the men in the battalion would die almost certainly. The object being to take some Germans with them. After destroying all of the prisoners, a fresh batch of victims would be mated to the guards companies and back to the attack it would go. This was repeated until the prisoner pool was emptied or the Germans were crushed. Then T34s would roll over the dead prisoners. What a mess. Playing dead didn't work. If the Germans caught on, and lifted their fire, the prisoners would rush forward and join the German Army. The Germans gained tens of thousands of super eager volunteers ( Hiwi ) this way.
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@Mstislaw BTW, EVERY army had penal battalions// formations. In the US Army 'Graves and Registrations' was always a penal formation. It was a duty that absolutely no-one wanted. Because every army needed troopers to staff out chit details -- like Graves and Registrations -- the infractions// crimes required to be sent down to a penal formation whipped all over the lot, by army, by nation and by recent history. The film "The Dirty Dozen" , while highly fictional in every way, did touch on the fact that penal troops were routinely given Hell work. One job out of many: clearing mines. If captured German engineers could be found, they would certainly be pressed into such service. My own father stood guard over such details in Normandy. There are no end of photos showing this activity. Naturally, these photos are not now popularly reprinted. If the enemy combat engineers could not be found, then ANY enemy trooper was set to the task. Indeed, they'd be thrown into the mix even if engineers were on hand. Of note, German mines were designed to be lifted and re-set. The Heer was in no economic situation to leave mine fields behind that could be re-set all over again when the front shifted. Further, it was often the case that the Germans wanted to attack straight through their own existing mine fields. German engineers got to the point that they could lift mines at night. Where it got tricky was when a German mine was set to be a booby trap. ( One atop the other. ) Boy was that exciting.
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Zhukov brought up his penal formations and forced them to walk ahead of NKVD troops. They were provided plenty of vodka -- but no medical help to speak of. There are MANY Russian accounts of this tactic -- from those very few survivors who were still standing at war's end.
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The Penal Division at Stalingrad was #312, IIRC. It was written up extensively by the Germans at the time. They couldn't comprehend the bravery of its troops -- and they swore that they'd wiped it out more than once within a single day. (!!!)
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@Joe Bloggs Nice try at false equivalence. There were simply not that many PoWs to kill. Famously, the US Army had to intervene to stop a Jewish crew from poisoning thousands of SS men... successfully. They poisoned their bread, but then the USA Medical Corps detected the poison and had every SS man shipped off to every local hospital to have their stomach pumped. No-one died. The Jews were caught and brought up on charges. IIRC they got a slap on the wrist -- due to circumstances. ( The SS had killed their families, entire. ) It was the Red Army that liquidated the SS -- those that ran out of bullets in mid-May 1945 -- in Czechoslovakia. They did not lay down their arms on May 8th or May 9th. There were no known survivors from that SS army. The contention that the US Army liquidated German PoWs en masse has never been substantiated. Rather it comes off as absurd, the kind of BS that the KGB was famous for inventing.
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@mPky1 Britain was broke no later than July 1940. Absolutely NO-ONE would trade with them. HMG had totally tapped the till. LendLease, from the very start, was a total give-away. On paper, Britain ran up a Fat Tab. Then the 'debt' was thrown away... rolled perpetually into the future -- eventually to be cancelled ENTIRELY... ie after the war was won. Until then, it looked great on paper that the USG was collecting quite an IOU from the UK and from the USSR. What a hoot. This way both British and American politicians could hide what was really going on. FDR could never have gotten away with saying," America is just going to give away billions of dollars in war aid on my say so to my pals in England." As for the UK, it was embarrassing to admit that she was BROKE. So, HMG didn't admit it. This made it MUCH easier to collect taxes from British citizens. Imagine trying to collect taxes in grand style -- at the same time admitting that HMG has totally blown everything ever collected. Yeah, it wouldn't work. You just NEVER hear of a government admitting they're broke. I give you Venezuela. Europe was so broke that America had to extend Marshall Plan aid to it. Britain was the number one taker, IIRC. Being able to speak English really helped with the Marshall Plan paperwork. Everyone else needed a team of translators roaming all over the place. Your proffered stats are total garbage, of course. The USA sent more than 3,000 Sherman tanks, alone. You must suspect that something's off when Britain's shipment comes remotely close to that of the USA. And the other joke is that Britain's own tank divisions were re-equipped with Shermans, en masse. She then sent her rejects ( rejected by the British Army ) off to Stalin. The Russians were pissed at Britain's crappy stuff. -- Stuff like USED fighter aircraft -- the retired models of Spits and Hurricanes. Yup. That's what Churchill sent off to Archangel. What a jolly joker. Britain even sent on used tanks, too. When the American Shermans arrived, out went the old crappy stuff -- off to the USSR. Well, beggars can't be choosers. Most modern Brits are totally unaware that used gear was being sent on to Moscow. The Americans never sent used crap. We didn't have any laying around, and no-one was sending US LendLease aid. During a crisis, the US took first rate gear out of USA hands and shipped it on to our Allies: Britain received Shermans that were originally supposed to go to Northwest Africa. They ended up at El Alamein. The Soviets received Western Electric land lines that were rolled up only days after they had been delivered to new American infantry divisions. This happened in secret -- without ANYTHING being committed to writing. We only know about this because of memoirs written fifty-years after the event by the very guys that had to execute this order. The Russian and British panic need for land lines was so great that it delayed the deployment of American infantry divisions. It took a whole year of panic production to supply the Russians, Brits -- and then finally have enough to roll out fresh sets to the US Army. It's been 75 years, and Brits and Russians STILL can't stand to learn of their economic and military dependencies during WWII. I still read of Russians and Brits that think they actually paid for all that LendLease stuff. No doubt this myth was generated by the KGB. It's the kind of lie that the KGB was famous for. It sits along side the KGB lie that the US invented AIDS as a biological weapon against Blacks, Africans, the Third World, etc.
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@mPky1 But LendLease aid WAS free you knuckle-head. It was like a credit card that had no limit, and never required any payments. Then the 'tab' was simply torn up. It doesn't even show up on Britain's ledgers as a debt. That's what the rest of the planet calls FREE stuff. America didn't take any gold from Russia, either. Quite the reverse was true. America paid IN GOLD to Sweden so that Sweden would ship tungsten carbide tool bits to Russia. Stalin wouldn't buy his own tool bits even with the gold he DID have, not even to save his nation. The TC bits WERE the production miracle of wartime Soviet Union. THEY were the source of the astounding production increases. Tool bit speed had ALWAYS been the limiting production factor with High Speed Steel tool bits. HSS is fine for final beauty finishes in softer metals, but it is totally uncompetitive with TC and other cutting edges. This tool bit revolution is lost on most modern citizens. All that they've ever known is TC bits. They are totally unaware of the speed difference between what was before (HSS) and what was new. (TC) This explains why the general public -- and the propaganda media -- actually BOUGHT the Soviet production miracle BS -- both then and even now. BTW, when the Soviets removed their factories in a total panic, MOST of the stuff was tossed off of flat cars straight into the snow banks. When everything thawed the next summer, most of the stuff was RUINED. These were all scrapped out, to be replaced by LendLease, brand new, American motors, sheaves, wiring, -- everything. We know this to be true from personal testimony from Russians that were DIRECTLY involved in this panic action. When it counted, there were absolutely NO warehouses to receive the immense volume of factory equipment that had been unmounted and placed on flat cars -- with the occasional tarp to cover said equipment from the rain and snow -- if lucky. Everyone but you has figured that out -- over 75 years ago. As for Australia supplying the USN in the Pacific -- she didn't. All USN food supplies left the port of Alameda -- which lies next to Oakland, California. That supply depot was not shut down until the mid 1990s and the end of the Cold War. You can see a bit of the Alameda Air Station in the Ball-Fonda film: "Mine, Yours and Ours." America has a STERLING reputation with our Allies. Britain, Canada, Ausralia and New Zealand went on to be founding members of the Five Eyes -- or Echelon system. It still functions today. Good grief, you are literally ANTI-informed. You've got every specific detail ack bass wards. BTW, NZ and Australia, to the best of my knowledge, traded with UK regular way during the war. They didn't ship ANYTHING to Britain for free. They couldn't afford to do so. The flip side was that both were a part of Britain's trading network -- and so would import back from Britain manufactured goods in payment for food -- the primary export for both nations... plus wool. Sober up, buddy. Essentially EVERYTHING you think you know about LendLease is wrong... which stands to reason. Stalin lied to his nation about every aspect of LendLease. He was ashamed. His Capitalist enemy was bailing him out. Everything HE touched turned to chit, no exceptions.
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@mPky1 Inventing facts is no defense. LendLease was a give-away program from the first. Check out its name. LEND.... One of its provisions was that any 'debts' incurred would be voided when the military equipment was returned, returned to be scrapped out, that is. And this actually happened. Ship loads of Soviet Shermans WERE sent back to the USA. We picked them up in identical Liberty Ships. (Vladivostok) This confused the locals. A myth arose that Sherman tanks were being loaded up one day, to be shipped out -- and DUMPED INTO THE PACIFIC OCEAN -- thence the same ship to return in a few days to pick up more Sherman tanks. Heh, heh, heh. The Russians had NEVER SEEN identical freighter ships. They assumed that it was the same ship coming back, and back, and back. Whereas, by that time, the US had hundreds of identical Liberty ships in the fleet. Go with me on this: the US never collected a thin dime from Moscow -- EVER... as if Stalin were a good credit. Heh. Moscow even turned down Marshall Plan aid -- free money. Britain took BILLIONS of Marshall Plan aid. This was ANOTHER one-way wealth flow from the USA to UK. No nation took down more Marshall Plan aid than Britain. Speaking English, they all knew how to fill out the paperwork, and they all knew the American commercial game... typically having American trading partners going back many, many years. Some Marshall Plan funding was a pure gift. Other Marshall Plan funding was extended as a loan -- at an artificially LOW interest rate. Because all currencies have been fulsomely debased since WWII, it became easy for such ancient debts to be 'repaid' by the great-grandchildren of WWII. IIRC, even Germany recently repaid some super old debts. In real terms, the Europeans paid off about $0.04 on the dollar. The rest had been inflated away to nothing. No European nation could possibly really pay back LendLease aid. The numbers were too astounding. The gear was sent based upon military urgency, not on the basis of whether an allied power was a good credit risk. ( the USSR was deemed a total zero from the start ) No other nation in the history of the planet EVER extended such largesse to allied powers... LendLease during the war, Marshall Plan after the war. One of the tragedies of the Marshall Plan was that Whitehall used it as general funding to carry on the business of Empire. Big mistake. http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/modern/marshall_01.shtml " This is utter myth. Britain actually received more than a third more Marshall Aid than West Germany - $2.7 billion as against $1.7 billion. She in fact pocketed the largest share of any European nation. The truth is that the post-war Labour Government, advised by its resident economic pundits, freely chose not to make industrial modernisation the central theme in her use of Marshall Aid. " [Back then $1,000,000,000 was an ASTOUNDING amount of money.] "As he [Keynes] pointed out, the entire British war effort, including all her overseas military commitments, had only been made possible by American subsidies under the Lend-Lease programme. If the Americans stopped Lend-Lease, Britain would face a 'financial Dunkirk' - his words - unless Washington could be touched for a loan of $5 billion. Keynes wrote that such a 'Dunkirk' would have to be met by: ... "
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@Mstislaw It's a composite history built up from survivor's accounts, German accounts, the staggering number of "Hiwi" that were gained this way, etc. This scheme was also used by the ChiComms in Korea 1950-53. What an AMAZING co-incidence! Obviously, they picked up this brainstorm from Stalin. ( For those unaware, ALL of the early (Korean) war pilots came from the USSR. It takes years to become a proficient jet pilot. No way did Mao or the Norks have ANYONE able to fly Migs. I've been told by USAF Korean fighter pilots that it was forbidden to admit that they were shooting down Russians. Even though they could be clearly seen -- the flying being so close. Now that the Cold War is over, they all 'fess up. The USAF and USN also fought Russians over Hanoi, too. Same story, of course. ) During the Korean War, ENTIRE DIVISIONS were marched into American guns for the express purpose of suiciding them. You see, these formations were SOUTHERN Chinese boys. The very formations that had just been defeated in the Chinese Civil War. (1949) Mao wanted them all dead. So, not only did the Bolsheviks use penal battalions, the ChiComs did them one better. They destroyed entire armies by the time it was all said and done. Americans could NOT comprehend what they were looking at... even though this went on for THREE-YEARS. [ Mao did NOT use his Northern boys. They stood behind the front, rather like those imperial guards of old.] [ Think Mandarin vs Cantonese. ] [ China is STILL split between the North and South -- and historically such splits can go on for centuries at a time -- with the North and South organized as separate nations. ] See "Pork Chop Hill" for Hollywood's take on this befuddlement. The Germans were just as corn fused at Stalingrad. It was only when the Heer realized that Stalin was suiciding these Russians that they learned to lift their fires. Naturally, the survivors promptly 'volunteered' to be Hiwis. Heh. These Hiwis were normally sent to the divisional artillery battalion. Most of the German artillery battalions soon became over-run with Hiwis. It was an astonishing sight, BTW. The Hiwis couldn't scarcely wait to load guns aimed at the Red army. (!!!) Later, Hiwis became so numerous that the Heer started to organize light infantry formations out of Russians. (!!!) Such formations would be a company by company affair. ( A pretty rare thing, but still it was done -- on the down low.) These had to be hidden from Hitler, as he was totally against what was going on here. ( Something about the glory and honor of the Heer.) Unit commanders determined that it takes a Russian to really fight a Russian. The fighting was that feral. Penal battalions could only be used in major offensives. (Kursk) Their existence REALLY stiffened the spines of every other Red trooper, let me tell you.
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@The Blues Nope. Animals run all over the place once a mine goes off. This means that you have no lane to march through, just minced cow all over the countryside. Plus, cows were valuable. Traitors// cowards were ten-a-penny.
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@Alex Since he was writing about his own life. He found out about the dirty details while in the Soviet prison system... from survivors.
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@ Ultra... Foreign words get all kinds of treatment. I'm not going to perform a Web search in cryllic. The officer was directly attached to Moscow HQ, IIRC. Their historical division -- not some artillery officer at the front. This was a BIG news release during the Yeltsin era. It was not some fringe Web page. The revelations stunned Western historians. Until Moscow released the tale it was a complete secret. Afterwards, it fit with other weird facts from the era -- like why a female formation was leading the charge into Hitler's lair. For the longest time the West assumed that it was a propaganda stunt. Decades later we discover that the previous Russian formations had been shredded by Koniev's artillery -- in retaliation for Zhukov's fires. When Zhukov's stuff opened up Koniev's boys thought that they aimed in error. Soon they discovered that it was deliberate -- and ordered by Zhukov, himself. In truth, Stalin didn't want a Red Army with too much power. This Red Army fratricide is of a part of Stalin's games. He pitted the KGB against the GRU and vice versa -- repeatedly. In this manner he liquidated every early leader of both organizations. He also made both the GRU and KGB loathe each other -- institutionally.
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@Ultra I'm not your librarian. When the Government of Russia goes public on such a matter... were you in your crib or are you just trolling us? Citation -- You crack me up.
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@Mocsk... such is LOVE. The Dirt is coming from the Russian Government, itself. No Westerner ever alleged anything about the Berlin atrocities. So, take your bitching to Moscow. All of the nasty stats come from Official Documents of the period. The tale did not originate from some counter-intel program in the West... or ANY Western writer. Until Moscow released the records, the story was totally incredible -- in the original sense of that word. The relevant records required declassification by the President of Russia, Yeltsin. He did so to reveal to modern Russians what the Soviet tyranny was REALLY all about. Not the schtick put out by Central. BTW, the news came out in the late 90's... like a thunderbolt. For Yeltsin's releases were ruining MANY a Western apologist's career. They'd all been spouting off like you. Academically, they became non-persons -- laughing stocks -- kind of like you.
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@Mocsk... the tales came from SURVIVORS. Nice spin, though. The Red Army made ruthless use of penal formations. Stop trying to spin it. The practice was so out of hand that tens-of-thousands of Reds went over and joined the German armies. When you've been condemned to death... the logic is obvious.
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@Ultra... You're busting everyone up -- again.
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Adolf broke up the SS Corps: the 1SS left all of its heavy equipment -- donating it to the 3SS and 2SS. It, the 1SS, was sent to northern Italy. It was supposed to be joined with the 2SS, but the Soviet offensive at the Mius forced Adolf to flip around, yet again. However, once that battle was over, the 2SS went off to Italy, never to 'visit' Russia again. The 2SS left its 170mm guns in Russia, though. The Western Allies ultimately destroyed these divisions -- only the rump of the 1SS ever was sent east... to Lake Balaton. There the Red Army kicked its azz. Additionally, the formations destroyed by the Russians at Stalingrad were re-constituted -- and then all sent to Italy. Lastly, the 24th Panzer Corps which stood as reserve at Kursk was also sent to Italy. ( 14p, 16p, 24p, 26p, 29m -- again all Stalingrad panzers ) Indeed, this shift is the very reason that Hitler stopped the Kursk attack. He was reacting to the Allied invasion of Italy -- and Italy's surrender to the Allies. So you couldn't possibly be more wrong. Adding them up we have a panzer army and an infantry army. (!!!!) That's what it took to occupy Italy.
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@Ultra.. I'd you kid versus the Kremlin. Have at it.
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@Hyper: wrong. The Soviet production miracle was solely due to American aid. 1) Until the Americans provided it, gratis, the Soviets had no tungsten carbide tool bits. They were still using High Speed Steel bits. By changing to TC, a given machine tool could crank out EIGHT times as much product. (!!!!) Tool bits weighed so little and did so much that they were one of the first forms of assistance. Many were merely purchased -- with Western gold -- from Sweden and flown to the USSR. (Sweden sold to both sides straight through the war, BTW.) [The Swedes would not accept anything other than gold as payment. Hence the SS obsession with death camp gold.] 2) During the final daze of Typhoon, the Germans destroyed Stalin's ONLY radio tube factory -- located in the western suburbs of Moscow. Thereafter the Soviet went into total panic mode. All radio sets were jerked out of tanks and aircraft -- to save the tubes for command radio sets. Remember that tubes only give you so many hours -- unlike solid state transistors that soldier on for years. This nightmare was kept the deepest state secret. Stalin did not want the West to know of his plight. During 1942 Soviet tanks had no radios! It took months for the Reds to re-engineer radios to accept American tubes. ( Metric versus standard measure ) The radio tube crisis caused Britain and America to FLY in tubes... typically by way of Norway, Sweden, Finland and then greater Leningrad. Additional tubes were shipped on the water to Arkangel. 3) The British were shipping tanks and much more, via Arkangel, almost from the first day.
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@ David Buckleton Wiki's numbers are LOW. With the loss of Leningrad's factory, the USA provided 100% of the Soviet new steam locomotives. ( Baldwin Works ) 2,000 machines by the end of the war. These soldiered on into the 1960s, BTW. They were kept in strategic reserve even later. (The Soviets had a HARD time scrapping any military asset.) The USA provided 100% of the Studebaker trucks used at the front. No doubt heavy, pre-war trucks still rolled the streets of Moscow, but such machines had no military utility. Remember that the USSR simply has no long distance roads at all. ALL long distance transport was by train and river barge. The USSR did not produce ANY avgas except by way of American refining technology: namely that we shipped the all-important catalysts and the 'answer sheet' as to how to re-configure their existing refineries. The USA provided CRITICAL Hughes & Baker oil drilling rigs. Stalin had been using 1901 technology at all times prior. Watch "There Will Be Blood" for what that looked like. The new technology is 25 times as fast. I realize that's hard to believe -- until you watch the movie. 1901 drilling methods barely moved the tip of the bore-hole. Each hole = a flood of new and extra crude oil. This American technology brought in a new field as productive as all of Russia's pre-war production. ( off to the east ) The Germans (Foreign Armies East) could not comprehend where all of this extra oil was coming from. The typical Russian thinks that America charged large for this aid. America gave it away for NOTHING. $0.00. The typical modern adult assumes that America was merely a marginal factor -- and only showed up after the Soviets had defeated the Germans at Stalingrad. Both notions are entirely false. The MOST critical aid was air-flow during 1942. We even robbed our own army to provide land-lines for Operation Uranus and Mars. This event was so secret that it was not even committed to paper. The only reason we know of it at this time is by way of diaries // memoirs provided by the bottom ranks who actually had to roll up the phone cables. ( These cables were// are so robust that they are laid directly on the ground, with only the occasional overhead bridging so that vehicles can pass under. The Russians/ Germans/ British didn't have anything like them. Thank Western Electric ( Bell Telephone) It was these cables that made Operation Uranus the super success it was. They permitted STAVKA the luxury of talking up a storm while staying off the airwaves. This was a TOTAL break from prior procedure. The total absence of radio traffic is what threw OKH. BTW, at this point in the war, most T34s still did not have radios... all the better for radio silence. A-20 "Boston" bombers had already been given to the Red Air Force BEFORE the counter attack. That was some pretty quick support, wouldn't you say? The Reds LOVED them. They operated out of the Caucuses and were a key reason that Army Group A was stalled. They kept attacking German supply truck convoys. Luftwaffe fighters couldn't be everywhere.
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@mPky1 LendLease WAS free to everyone except the American taxpayer. The program got rolling because it was obvious that Britain was broke. What I might say is that WWII was launched in Europe as a joint operation between Stalin and Hitler. I might say that the USSR invaded MORE countries than Germany between 9-1-39 and 5-9-40. I might say that during the first half-year of war between these two 'buddies' the USA was stuck at peace. I might point out that EVERYTHING Britain 'gave' to Moscow came by way of a LendLease gift from America. London was merely 'flipping the assets' -- being in absolutely no position to create them. Even manufactures that bear Britain's stamp could NOT be so manufactured without American inputs. [ Britain DID make a huge contribution to victory, but that came by way of British aid to the USA, not British aid to the USSR. ] I might point out that Britain NEVER gave the USSR tens-of-thousands of tanks -- ONLY the USA could -- and did -- do that. I might say that London sent thousands of its lousy tanks that were failures in the hands of every other power that tried them in combat, and Moscow was grateful. I might say that until Barbarossa, Moscow's agents visibly and very actively obstructed the function of America's docks so that aid to Britain was throttled; then, suddenly, the West had peace on the docks. Russia paid in blood for the folly of Stalin -- the TRUE initiator of WWII in Europe. The partition document shows Stalin's initials and his wide -- almost smeared -- crayon that dictated the merge line between the Nazis and the Bolsheviks. Until Stalin romanced him, Adolf Hitler was actually BOXED IN. He was critically short of: Nickel Tungsten Chrome Copper Rubber Crude oil Met coal ( not used for steam -- used to make steel ) Ball bearings Aluminum Stainless steel Heavy water And that's just off the top of my head. Stalin not only launched the war, but provided the Nazi tyrant with the means to defeat France: unlimited crude oil became unlimited avgas. The French were NOT expecting the Luftwaffe to be able to fly so many sorties as they did because in ordinary circumstances, the Luftwaffe would've LONG since run out of avgas. Stated another way, Paris was counting on Berlin to be throttled by its critical fuel shortage -- and this was figured into its strategic calculus. They discovered, via Stalin, that they were totally wrong to do so. As it was the French air force didn't even stock enough avgas to carry on the fight, nor did France even build remotely sufficient fighters, either. This is astounding to read, but Paris spent as much as Berlin on fighter aircraft -- but just didn't get any. (!!!) What was happening was that, with every switch in government, the prior contracts were terminated and new ones let to industrialists that the new 'In' party favored. So Paris ended up funding scads of new design research -- while actually not buying any fighters in a production run. The Spring of 1940 was the earliest that mass production began. Less that 40 days later, Germany was over-running France. (!!!)
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@Ultra... STAVKA archives record that Zhukov turned his artillery upon Koniev while the Battle of Berlin was underway. Such a gambit HAD to have the express insistence of Stalin. ALL of these nasty details came from Official Russian Historians. Until they spoke up, no-one in the West had even a clue that this had occurred. BTW, there are quite a few accounts of 18th and 19th century commanders turning canons upon even their own troops. This, as true as it was, was never admitted at the time. Zhukov was HATED by the rest of STAVKA -- pretty much generally. That's why Stalin never purged him. Stalin knew that Zhukov could NEVER lead a coup against him. BTW, the second the Politburo didn't see the need to keep Zhukov on board -- he was ejected. ( Zhukov had a personal connection to President Eisenhower. That's what put him in the Politburo in the first place.) I hope the SVR is paying you well. The West always needs jokers.
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@Ultra dumb... Solly was dead for years before the Russian Government came public with Zhukov versus Koniev artillery duel, 1945. Solly didn't know a thing about it. He was already in the hands of the NKVD by the time of the battle, IIRC. Learn to use Google// Bing or any other search engine. Also, pay attention to official government releases. Solly counts as a different subject. You pitched the idea that Zhukov was a saint. Moscow says nothing could be further from the truth. He was such a dick that he was fired from the Politburo the second his 'pal' Ike faded from importance.
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@Rod Jarrow The USAAF wiped out Luftwaffe avgas stocks. So Speer was producing planes that were nothing but ground targets. Most fighters were being destroyed on the ground -- having never flown in combat!
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@Ultra... The fellow was a Russian Army officer. Who else would have access to the STAVKA archives? He was a staff Russian Army historian. That was his duty. The Red Army kept exacting records of all transmissions by its top officers. It was within these files that the major (IIRC) discovered Zhukov and Koniev howling at each other. Koniev had already destroyed the Nazi supreme command HQ at Zossen. ( This was to be massively expanded during the Cold War by the Red Army.) His armies were then directed by Stalin such that Koniev could attack Berlin from the south and even swing around to come from the west. This he did. This move infuriated Zhukov. The records are crystal clear: more Russians died during the Battle of Berlin from 'crossed artillery' than they did from Nazi fires. Until this was made public, no-one in the West knew anything about it. It's because of this that the Battle of Berlin is regarded as one of the bloodiest battles of the entire war. It's also why female Red Army soldiers found themselves in the front ranks, at the heart of the battle. That had never happened before. Those gals have been video interviewed and thus made famous.
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It comes from a gal at an American aircraft manufacturing plant. She was interviewed in particular because her face was used as Rosie the Riveter during the war. She very recently passed on, BTW. Women totally dominated American aircraft manufacture. They also totally dominated electronics -- in the age of vacuum tubes. You still see this in Red China, not one man at the microscope. The B-24s assembled at Willow Run were also manufactured by a workforce that had scads of women. Women were recruited with great intensity. If nothing else, they were not subject to the draft -- and rarely would be so foolish as to volunteer -- any employer's nightmare. ( The departure of a key player can practically shut down an assembly line.) [ You'd be shocked as to how long it took Ford Motor to spool up Willow Run. You can watch the video on YouTube, it's still there. It's an eye opener. The B-24 was THE plane that won WWII. Why? It won the Battle of the Atlantic. Until that battle was won, all other campaigns would not pencil out. Its ultra long range -- for the period -- was quite exceptional. It proved to be a nightmare for the Axis Powers. NOTHING was out of range in Europe. It was America's most produced aircraft: 15,000+ copies from multiple plants. Okinawa was captured with the express intent of bombing with B-24s. It and the B-29 were both absolute beasts to fly, though. So they did not have a long flight career. In contrast the B-17 just about flew itself.
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The typical American Black soldier could not read nor write. THAT'S the reason for the 'racism' you preen about. Blacks also have the MPs 15 times as much trouble, per capita. They were constantly being nabbed for rape -- all across France. Because of this, Black troops could not be used in an 'occupation' role. The reason that the Nazis were so strongly associated with terror bombing ties back to the Nazi propaganda ministry... and the Spanish Civil War. You could say that the Nazis were 'first-movers' in area urban bombing -- with many an outrage to their discredit. Racism was HUGE for the Nazis, not so for the Allied Powers. You're drawing a false equivalence. Stop preening. Thank you very much.
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@Sy W The atomic bomb was entirely a USA invention. The Germans were on the wrong track, yes, totally on the wrong track. They let the physicists design everything -- and kicked their engineers to the curb. Consequently, if they'd actually fired up their dangling cube reactor, everyone nearby would've been killed by a neutron flash. The V2 was a DUD. It cost too much. The V1 was the weapon to fear. It was cheap to produce. You might note that cruise missiles are -- even today -- used dramatically more than ballistic missiles. They only pencil out with atomic warheads. Anything less, they function as terror weapons, and that's about it. NOT a war-winning machine.
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@Mocsk... the US Army also had penal formations. They just were never foolish enough, nor desperate enough, to use them in combat. Instead they formed Graves and Registrations formations. This was a 'duty' that absolutely no-one wanted to get stuck with. Hence the joke in Kelly's Heroes where G & R is charging to the front lines -- right along with Kelly's own crew. WWII vets would fall out of their chairs laughing at such a concept. G & R was filled to the brim with slackers and cowards.
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@Mocsk... such is the nature of love. Zukov had a universal reputation for brutality... such that he was feared and loathed by his fellow generals. It's also why Stalin elevated him to deputy status: he was no political threat. The second the Politburo didn't need his 'services' he was canned. (Ike was on the way out. The Politburo elevated him solely so as to have a man who was a buddy of Ike.) No-one loved him. His policy suite at Leningrad was as harsh as harsh could possibly be. He didn't lighten up later, either. He was famed for breaking generals and sending them into suicide assaults because he deemed them not aggressive enough. Stalin heartily approved. During the Battle of Berlin, Zukov turned his guns on Koniev's troops -- killing tens of thousands. This tale comes from official Red Army archives. Until Yeltsin made it public twenty some odd years ago, no-one in the West knew a thing about it. Red Army official archives crisply credit Zukhov with hundreds of thousands of Red Army casualties during this battle. Per day, it was the bloodiest battle of the whole war. You can google around for more details. But we both know you can't bear to look under the covers. There be a monster there. BTW, Koniev shot back, too. The red-on-red fighting confused the Nazis. They though that a relief army was coming to their aid. Only when Adolf realized that the Reds were doing all of the shooting did he FINALLY figure out that his war was lost. See "Downfall." [ The red-on-red fighting is left out of the script. ] There was no crime the Nazis committed that the Reds failed to commit. That's the historical record. The war started with those two, and ended with those two. It took Stalin's permission for Poland to be attacked. Once he did so, the devil was set free.
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@Sy W You are wrong. Because of the Cold War, historians have not been able to even get access to the critical records for decades. The very WORST re-tellings occurred shortly after WWII. It's not as if you're compiling an auto accident report. Just assembling the data set is a monster task. Just ask TIK.
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When I was a young man, I thought the Wehrmacht was technically competent and had some morals. I now know that the Wehrmacht defeated itself. The list of boners is astoundingly long. They killed of their own draft horses during the cold rains of late '41, 1,500,000+ beasts lost in mere weeks. These were replaced by crippling the German farm economy. (!) So gazillion Soviets were put to draft horse work. My own father had to capture and ultimately deliver these poor young men to the Stalinist maw -- as that tyrant was hold Brits and Yanks hostage. Once in hand, Stalin put them into prison. Raping and murdering Slavs was "no biggie" for the ordinary German soldier. These admissions are to be found in death bed articles by the lowest ranks on up. It was a totally immoral army. It fought in violation of all Geneva norms, particularly in the east. Needless cruelty was the norm. No wonder the Red Army was all fired up. So, my opinion of the Germans totally flipped. I'd been wrong for years.
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