Comments by "Vic 2.0" (@Vic2point0) on "Hear The Bern Episode 42 | How We Got Here (w/ Jeffrey Sachs u0026 Ari Rabin-Havt)" video.

They're skipping over quite a bit! A larger percentage of Republicans voted for the Civil Rights Acts than Democrats. And healthcare costs skyrocketed with the advent of Medicaid and Medicare in the 60s. Why? Because demand was radically increased while supply was radically hindered. And they've been out of balance ever since, getting worse every year. The government regulations ensure that supply can never meet (or even come close to meeting) demand, and of course people like Bernie want to make that even worse.
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@chadsimmons4496 Innovation doesn't necessarily mean higher costs; indeed, it usually means lower costs because the purpose of the innovation is typically to make things more efficient. But what did raise the costs of healthcare (and yes, I mean healthcare, the rising costs of insurance are only a byproduct of that) is the sudden, dramatic increase of demand without a matching increase in supply. When you have tons of patients all of a sudden, by few (indeed fewer) healthcare providers, higher costs are a predictable result. And the government continues to hinder supply to this day. In some states, you can't even add something to your hospital/clinic (much less build a new one) without the government's approval. And so we have the government backing another hospital's monopoly on that area, then we wonder why prices are so high. I'll stick with Trump. He's not a perfectly libertarian president, but at least he understands basic economics and has taken some steps in the right direction.
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@chadsimmons4496 Okay then, so we need more competition in the healthcare industry to maximize innovation (competition for profit is the incentive), and that requires government to get out of the way. As for "surgery, injury and disease are not markets", healthcare absolutely is. You can say "Healthcare is a human right" all day long, but that won't produce more doctors, clinics, hospitals, etc. The reality of scarcity cannot be denied, if we're gonna get serious about solving this problem. @Chad Simmons Oh, I don't trust corporations or government outright. But unless a crime is committed, corporations can't get my money without competing for it. I can always give it to someone else who's doing more for me. By contrast, the government gets to take our money no matter how poor a job they do. So I definitely want prices to go down (and especially without sacrificing efficiency or quality). I just want us to do it the way that works.
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@chadsimmons4496 What does your being Canadian have to do with anything? Even Canada ranks higher than the U.S. in terms of economic freedom. That's like how Bernie keeps saying we should be like Scandinavia, but doesn't realize that those countries are much more free market than the U.S. No minimum wage laws, they have school vouchers, they don't penalize the wealthy with high corporate tax rates, etc. @Chad Simmons "You want to pay a middle man..." Do you not see the irony in what you just said? I want to be able to take my money and pay a doctor. I don't want my money forcibly taken from me so that the government can take its cut and then pay a doctor. "Less bombs, more clinics." We agree on the objective. But the government has kept more clinics from being built, that's what you're not understanding. "Less lobbyists, more doctors." The only realistic way to prevent people from lobbying the government for special favors, higher costs for would-be competition that can't afford it, etc. is to take that power away from the government in the first place. So again, we agree on the objectives, but disagree on how to achieve them. "Less air craft carriers, more schools and nurses and hospitals. " Similar to above, it's the government that keeps people from building more schools and opening their own hospitals/clinics for more doctors and nurses to work at. "Less corporate lawyers, more corporate criminal prosecutions. " I haven't read up on these statistics yet, so fine... unless you're saying that corporations shouldn't be able to hire lawyers to defend themselves in court or some such? "Less private profit influence, more choice for workers and employers. " More competition in the market is more employers, and it means more choice for workers.
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@ugeofaltron5003 Yet again, you won't say what you're challenging so how can I do that? @Chad Simmons "You do NOT have choice of doctors when insurance draws the networks and employers control your packages. " I want us to have choices in all of these ways, but even in these things, the government prevents us from actually being free. And you're not responding to my point about how they put up barriers to entry, or how the ability of corporations to lobby them comes from the fact that they have this power to begin with. ""Competition" isn't a thing in this case." Well at least you admit it. But it should be. "My post-tax budget does not include unknown doctors fees, etc. That is freedom, brutha. " Lol, yes, after they take what they want from you, then they leave you alone for a bit. That's not freedom, no. I also don't see why you would bring up Reagonomics when we already know when this started. Again (at least concerning healthcare) it was in the 60s, with the advent of Medicaid and Medicare. This radically increased demand while government radically hindered supply. You can't do it that way, which is why prices skyrocketed at that point. It's been getting worse ever since because the regulations (yes, probably brought on in large part by lobbyists) have been getting worse ever since.
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@chadsimmons4496 I "get taken" by whom for a lot more, and get less for it? Also, even if the majority of Canadians are fine with having their money taken by the government, it doesn't justify taking it from those who want to keep their money. And no, demand wasn't always so high in the U.S., because it turns out that when you make something free or a lot cheaper than it was before, more people line up for it. To say demand wasn't radically increased when they came out with Medicare and Medicaid is just silly.
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@chadsimmons4496 "keep their money? So you think" Yes, I think whatever you earn you should get to keep, that's right. "Yes. Demand was always there! Sick and dying, injured and disabled, was always a thing..." Nice sleight of hand. Naturally, there were sick and dying, injured and disabled people before government got involved and screwed up our healthcare system. But as I explained, when you make healthcare free or (artificially) cheaper than it was before, you get more people lining up for it. That in and of itself wouldn't have been a bad thing, but the government's also in the business of preventing supply from ever rising to meet that demand. And so we get ridiculously high prices in healthcare. "Go buy some insulin in the US. Go buy some in Canada. See who is being taken for a ride..." Again, Canada ranks higher in terms of economic freedom too, so I don't see how you think this is a point in your favor...
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@chadsimmons4496 No, you should be able to answer why you think it proves your case instead of mine. Because my whole point is that the free market is best. We see it in the U.S. before the 60s (and especially the early 1900s but that's going deeper), we see it in Scandinavia, and we see it (albeit to a lesser extent) when it comes to Canada. "Why do you think Canada has more economic freedom?" The way I know Canada has more economic freedom, is that it ranks higher (though not much) on the economic freedom index. And there could be many reasons for this; but I know that, as it is in Scandinavia, they have lower corporate tax rates than the U.S. (and far lower than Bernie Sanders wants it to be here). https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking Forget about "smaller government" as a phrase. When you penalize the source of supply, you get less of it. That's been my whole point all along. The Republicans' criticism of Bernie, that his policy ideas more closely represent those of Venezuela than those of Scandinavian countries or even Canada, is well-founded.
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@chadsimmons4496 Your dismissal of the facts doesn't make them irrelevant or untrue. https://mises.org/wire/how-government-regulations-made-healthcare-so-expensive Again, it's no coincidence that the healthcare industry is both the most insanely expensive and the most heavily regulated in the U.S. Just as it's no coincidence that nations that are doing better economically tend to be more free market-oriented.
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@chadsimmons4496 Well you're ignoring the vast majority of the points I'm making, but would you mind clarifying what your claim is in that second part? When you say "the high profit middle man denial center", what do you mean? @Chad Simmons "What do you mean, what do I mean? You know what I mean." No, I really don't, because you won't elaborate. "Private taxation is unelected and unrepresented." Ok? I think taxation largely is unelected and unrepresented, but that wouldn't be a pro-Bernie point by any stretch of the imagination... "I have never called the police. Doesn't mean I think I'm entitled to a tax refund for my lifetime proportion to police. " Naturally, because they're still keeping your neighborhood safe. And that's actually a government role. And you don't have to be "interested" in the facts and arguments I'm giving. You can turn a blind eye to it as long as you like.
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@chadsimmons4496 That's not how it works and you know it. Taxes are forcibly taken by the government and distributed to the masses. Some who pay high taxes might not actually get a fair tradeoff. But the government is in the business of making it seem like high taxes are the only way people can possibly afford healthcare (after driving the costs of healthcare up artificially themselves). But again, you have to ignore American history to make this ideology seem rational. And no amount of name-calling will change these facts, BTW. Call me when Canada is doing inarguably better than the U.S. (might want to do something about those wait times first!) and when they are lower on the economic freedom index than the U.S. Then maybe you might have some semblance of a case against the free market.
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@chadsimmons4496 So we've touched on another fact you don't want to hear about, ok. @Chad Simmons Naturally, I'm talking about the fact that Canada's wait times for healthcare are atrocious when compared to the U.S. (where the demand-supply ratio is still awful but not quite as bad). As for where to read about it, so you can quickly dismiss more facts, you can take your pick among these pages or countless others: https://torontosun.com/opinion/editorials/editorial-canadas-medical-wait-times-are-unacceptable https://fee.org/articles/america-outperforms-canada-in-surgery-wait-times-and-its-not-even-close/ https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2019/12/10/1958372/0/en/Canada-s-health-care-wait-times-eclipsed-20-weeks-in-2019-second-longest-wait-ever-recorded.html https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/podcast/2018/oct/truth-about-waiting-see-doctor-canada And don't misunderstand me, I'm not commending Canada when I say that the reason they're kinda sorta making "free" healthcare work is because they're slightly more free market than the U.S. I'm saying that this is one of the factors that go into a stable economy. But wait times are ridiculous in Canada, because demand is so much higher (for now) while supply is comparable. Again, a better place to look concerning the market overall would be Scandinavia, which is even more free market, or the U.S. in the early 1900s (pre-1965 if we're talking exclusively about healthcare). It would make more sense anyway, to compare the U.S. to itself but people don't seem to want to do what makes sense these days (sigh). And I'm not sure how you think I'm a feudalist, but the act of simply labeling someone to dismiss them is name-calling.
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@chadsimmons4496 Scandinavia's more free market than the U.S., these are not socialist countries (again, the PM of Denmark actually had to correct Bernie on that). No minimum wage laws, they've school vouchers, they don't penalize the wealthy with high corporate tax rates. All things Bernie opposes. So he claims to want something similar to Scandinavia, but doesn't want to do what they did to get there. And yes, there are wait times in the U.S., but the links (which you predictably ignored) show that the wait times in Canada are far worse. And both places could benefit from increasing supply to meet the increased demand. Also, a truly free market would allow people to build clinics/hospitals in those places you say have been abandoned. In reality, the U.S. government actively prevents these places from being built. So the masses are denied the benefits of healthcare that is closer, cheaper and/or better quality because the government has decided they don't need it. The left wants to talk about stopping lobbyists and anyone "buying politicians", but they don't realize that this is inevitable so long as the government has the power to manipulate the market in the first place.
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@chadsimmons4496 My response to you was deleted. Gonna try and add it to my last comment here.
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@ugeofaltron5003 Sure, what specifically do you want evidence for?
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@ugeofaltron5003 Please be specific. What is it you think is "bullshit"?
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@chadsimmons4496 My response to you was blocked. Gonna try and add it to my last comment to you.
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@chadsimmons4496 My response to you was deleted again. Adding it to my last comment.
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@chadsimmons4496 My response was blocked. Adding it to my last comment here.
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@chadsimmons4496 Yes, but those taxes are not progressive; they kick in on the middle class and the VAT tax is insanely high, disproportionately affecting the lower and middle classes as well. Like I said, they don't penalize the wealthy with high corporate tax rates as Bernie wants to do, the difference is like night and day. As for the unions, this isn't fundamentally different from any other system where the people get to decide what they are/aren't willing to work for. There's no minimum wage law, which frees people up to work for whatever wage they can get.
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@chadsimmons4496 What is "money isn't free speech" supposed to be addressing? And the percentage of people in Scandinavian countries covered by private healthcare has actually been growing year-by-year. It's really just one more example of how Bernie's ideas and what Scandinavia's actually doing are quite different.
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