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nexus1g
The Young Turks
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Comments by "nexus1g" (@nexus1g) on "Lawsuit Claims Popular Brand Of Honey Is Lying On Their Labels" video.

You know, you anti-GMO-types are just one step above the anti-vaxxer types.
7
The problem with diabetes isn't getting sugar; it's the body not using the sugar due to insulin resistance or a lack of insulin.
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@melvina628 There isn't Round-Up in the plants. You know that, right? They find a plant that is naturally repulsive to the critter they don't want chomping down on the corn or whatever it is, then they include that portion of the donor plant into the target plant.
3
So much ignorance in this post. -There's been no science showing raw honey helps allergies. -The way it's explained that raw honey supposedly helps is nothing like how a vaccine works. The point of a vaccine is to prepare the body to react to a foreign body, not stop it from reacting. -The only thing that stops allergic reactions isn't exposure to the allergen but antihistamines. -Honey is almost completely a simple sugar, comprised mostly of fructose, glucose and water (about 3% of it is dextrin). -Carbohydrates are broken down into only glucose for use by the body, not "constituent sugars". - Honey is essentially empty calories -- a lot of carbohydrates with very little nutritional value.
3
If I were running a honey company, I wouldn't think that warming the honey to 120ºF to make it easier to pour would qualify as not being raw. You're stretching to make it about how corporations are evil, but I suppose it wouldn't be TYT otherwise. This is a frivolous lawsuit.
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@realtalk4994 There's no need to be disingenuous. Here's what the National Honey Board actually states, "What is raw honey? "While there is no official U.S. federal definition of raw honey, the National Honey Board defines raw honey as 'honey as it exists in the beehive or as obtained by extraction, settling or straining without adding heat.' This definition does not have any legal authority..." They also state, "Is raw honey more nutritious than processed or filtered honey? "...A 2012 study by the National Honey Board analyzed vitamins, minerals and antioxidant levels in raw and processed honey. The study showed that processing significantly reduced the pollen content of the honey, but did not affect the nutrient content or antioxidant activity, leading the researchers to conclude that the micronutrient profile of honey is not associated with its pollen content and is not affected by commercial processing."
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@GulfbeachMateo According to this lawsuit, a hot day (105º+ F ) at the apiary makes the honey "not raw". How is this anything but frivolous?
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Nah, you have more ridiculous problems, like malnutrition.
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I'll just copy and paste what I posted to reply to another person explaining more of the nuance regarding sugar: You're vastly oversimplifying things. First and foremost, it's important to know that sugars are absolutely necessary for your continued existence. If your body had no sugar, you would slip into a coma and die within minutes or hours. The body can technically synthesize sugars from protein through the liver, but it's very expensive to do and can lead to liver failure. The only people in the world that are capable of living extended periods without access to any sugar are the far northern American natives who've evolved larger livers to handle the workload of converting their nearly 100% protein and fat diet to sugar. There are two basic types of sugars: complex and simple sugars. Complex sugars are found in starchy foods such as grains, cereals and starchy vegetables such as peas or potatoes, while simple sugars include table sugar and sugar in fruit and milk products. All of these sugars are fine for you, though it requires more energy for the body to breakdown complex sugars into glucose for the body to use. Simple sugars are much easier to process. As with all dietary requirements, moderation is the key. When your body doesn't use all of the glucose you take in, it stores it for later in the form of glycogen which is stored in skeletal muscles and the liver and can lead to fatty liver and also triacylglycerols which is what's stored in fat cells. If you consume enough energy dependent on how much you take in (in caloric balance, so to speak), then you won't suffer these detrimental effects.
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And over the most ludicrous thing too. They're claiming any temperature over 105ºF makes the honey no longer "raw". That's a hot summer day, not a cooking temperature.
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@wildberry752 r/woosh
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You're vastly oversimplifying things. First and foremost, it's important to know that sugars are absolutely necessary for your continued existence. If your body had no sugar, you would slip into a coma and die within minutes or hours. The body can technically synthesize sugars from protein through the liver, but it's very expensive to do and can lead to liver failure. The only people in the world that are capable of living extended periods without access to any sugar are the far northern American natives who've evolved larger livers to handle the workload of converting their nearly 100% protein and fat diet to sugar. There are two basic types of sugars: complex and simple sugars. Complex sugars are found in starchy foods such as grains, cereals and starchy vegetables such as peas or potatoes, while simple sugars include table sugar and sugar in fruit and milk products. All of these sugars are fine for you, though it requires more energy for the body to breakdown complex sugars into glucose for the body to use. Simple sugars are much easier to process. As with all dietary requirements, moderation is the key. When your body doesn't use all of the glucose you take in, it stores it for later in the form of glycogen which is stored in skeletal muscles and the liver and can lead to fatty liver and also triacylglycerols which is what's stored in fat cells. If you consume enough energy dependent on how much you take in (in caloric balance, so to speak), then you won't suffer these detrimental effects.
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@nicot9305 What law are they breaking? The honey is unpasteurized and there's no other FDA guidelines for what is considered "raw" for honey.
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@laticsprem The honey isn't pasteurized, so what's wrong with it being called raw?
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@Counter-Intuitive Dude, they're claiming that temperatures above 105ºF means the honey is no longer raw. A hot summer day at the apiary would make it "not raw". That's what makes this frivolous and downright ridiculous.
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@Counter-Intuitive "Raw" means unpasteurized, and the pasteurization of honey is 145ºF for 30 minutes. It would be nearly impossible to control temps of the honey in most locations in the US during the summer months to keep it from going above 105ºF at any time.
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@JassminaVellucci Just so you know, we're omnivores. You need to eat animal byproducts of some kind to be healthy.
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Yep. Or if it's a typical summer day at a southern/southwestern apiary, too, apparently.
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@urduib Honey is an antiseptic because it's hygroscopic. Heating it doesn't make it lose that property.
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@damncows Bacteria doesn't live well in dry conditions.
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@damncows I'm wondering if you know what hygroscopic means.
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@damncows So why were you talking about adding water to honey?
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 @damncows Bacteria are what antibiotics kill, not what they're made of. You're just talking out of your ass, aren't you? You have no idea.
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@law5296 That doesn't make sense. If the law states that what they do to the honey can still be labeled as raw, where's the wrongdoing? Shouldn't they just be suggesting that the FDA pass more stringent by-laws regarding what constitutes raw honey instead of frivolously suing?
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 @CauseAndorEffect I'm pretty sure they're synonymous.
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@Walter-Anderson Let's say they lower the temperature for bottling. If they then transport the honey through the southwest US on a typical summer day, do they have to change the label for that shipment? It's a ridiculously low temperature range to be concerned about. And it's only 25ºF above the temperature in the beehive itself. I could warm a steak to 120ºF, and I bet you'd consider it still raw. There's so much gray area here that to call this false advertising is just ludicrous.
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@Francesco Salvatore Steak is food like honey and iron ore is not. It's about what we'd reasonably consider "raw". Over 105ºF can't be considered "not raw" because it's too easy to go over that temperature. Hell, if you're buying honey from a local apiary in the Southwest harvested on a typical hot, summer day, it could't be considered "raw" in this lawsuit. "Raw" means unpasteurized, and the pasteurization of honey is 145ºF for 30 minutes.
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According to the lawsuit, a lot of honey couldn't even be considered raw if it got over 105ºF, which can be just a typical hot summer day in a lot of places.
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Coldern Ice What?
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There's nothing wrong with it. OMG THEY HEATED IT 15º MORE! Seriously, it's still raw. Calm down.
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If I'm buying "raw" milk, to me that says it's not homogenized and not pasteurized. If I'm buying "raw" honey, I would presume it's also not pasteurized. I looked it up and there's no special requirements for specifically honey to be classified as "raw", and since the pasteurization of honey occurs at 145º F for 30 minutes, I can't see how this lawsuit would go anywhere. If anything, it's a business opportunity for those companies to add to their label that it was temperature controlled to maintain <105ºF at all times, but this is a really gray area to expect any regulation in.
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I wouldn't worry much about it. I wouldn't consider this lying. They're claiming any temperature over 105ºF makes the honey no longer "raw". That's a hot summer day, not a cooking temperature.
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They're suing over warming the honey 15ºF too much so it's easier to pour... This is such a non-issue.
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@ng38477 For posterity, I'll copy and paste my rebuttal to you against the claim that they're lying here, but don't argue me in two different threads. The FDA has no such labeling guidelines regarding what constitutes "raw honey". That means if it's not pasteurized, it can be labeled as raw. Pasteurization for honey occurs at 145º F for 30 minutes. My point is that they're not lying, doing anything dishonest, nor anything outside of regulations. At most, this is an opportunity for businesses that want to offer a higher quality product for a premium to advertise their product being cool chain managed to ensure the product never exceeds 105º F.
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@ng38477 Frivolous lawsuits cost everyone money.
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@ng38477 The company is doing what they're supposed to do. It's not pasteurized, so it's able to be labeled as raw. The information is readily available through the USDA and FDA on labeling requirements for honey.
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Your response is like one of those pay-for-clicks things.
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This would be an actual worthwhile lawsuit, not saying "Anything over 105ºF is not raw".
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Honey's still pretty viscous at that temp, which is about the temp that hives operate at on the inside. The ridiculous part of this lawsuit is that they're claiming any temperature over 105ºF would classify the honey as not raw. That would be a typical summer day at a Southwestern/Southern apiary.
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It's not pasteurized. That's the requirement for a thing being raw. It's raw. The labeling is fine.
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@chargingbadger_ Actually, the body has an easier time converting processed sugar to glucose as it's done as part of normal digestion in the intestines, not the liver. This is as opposed to the sugars found in, for instance, peas. The primary issue is the high glycemic index of table sugar and honey, which means a very little goes a very long way.
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@pvphoto1 Carbs and sugar are the same thing. They're synonyms for each other. Your body only uses simple sugars glucose and fructose. Polysaccharides have to be digested to be broken into their constituent monosaccharides for the body to use.
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@pvphoto1 Non-sugar replacements? Are you talking about artificial sweeteners? If so, they're not saccharides at all.
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@pvphoto1 That sugar you're talking about is a complex sugar. It's a disaccharide of fructose and glucose. High fructose corn syrup is also a complex carbohydrate. What you're talking about are the effects of the glycemic index of a sugar, not whether it's a simple or complex sugar.
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This is just frivolous. I wouldn't consider this lying. They're claiming any temperature over 105ºF makes the honey no longer "raw". That's a hot summer day, not a cooking temperature.
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This is just frivolous. I wouldn't consider this lying. They're claiming any temperature over 105ºF makes the honey no longer "raw". That's a hot summer day, not a cooking temperature.
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And they're saying any temp over 105ºF means it's not raw. That's a pretty typical summer day in the southwest. It makes no sense.
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Mason Albert Since the pasteurization of honey occurs at 145º for 30 minutes, heating it to 120º for the purpose of easier pouring is still raw.
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@thetruetexanamerican3522 I checked the FDA's website. They have a PDF of all the requirements for labeling honey. They don't have anything regarding what's able to be labeled as raw so it's just what's not pasteurized. To me, this is just an opportunity for businesses that want to make a premium selling a higher quality product to advertise that their honey is cool chain managed to keep it below 105º F.
1
So I checked with the FDA, and there's no stricter requirements for labeling honey as raw beyond it not being pasteurized which is 145º F for 30 minutes; however, if we're talking about dishonest, this appears to just be an underhanded lawyer ad. Farron Cousins did an article back in February along these same lines for the Top Class Actions site on his Ring of Fire site where he interviewed this same guy. This just smacks of dishonest advertising. Honest people would volunteer full disclosure.
1
Ok, that makes literally no sense. The issue is them making the honey too hot, apparently. This honey is heated to 120º F to make it less viscous for pouring. Pasteurized honey is heated at 145º F for 30 minutes. However, you're saying that pasteurized is better for some reason...?
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That's interesting. I imagine a hot summer day would still cause it to go over 105º F though, right?
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Dude, they're claiming that temperatures above 105ºF means the honey is no longer raw. A hot summer day at the apiary would make it "not raw". That's what makes this frivolous and downright ridiculous.
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@this-is-slammin-549 They said they heat the honey TO 120ºF. 105ºF is still just a hot summer day. Probably half the honey produced during the summer months couldn't be considered raw by that standard. It's ludicrous.
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 @this-is-slammin-549 Also, "Raw" generally means unpasteurized, and the pasteurization of honey is 145ºF for 30 minutes.
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@this-is-slammin-549 Maybe you should look up the FDA guidelines like I did, because you're flat out wrong. There're no stricter rules for labeling honey as raw short of it not being pasteurized.
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Well, I don't think the label claims unfiltered. I could be wrong, though. But since it's not pasteurized, it can be labeled as raw. Maybe it's not AS raw as what you've eaten, but that doesn't make it not raw.
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They said it's enough to change the chemistry, and they're lying through their teeth. Notice how all of that bullshit they spouted came with no source? That's because the science literally says they're full of shit. No, literally, on the abstract of each paper, it says, "These two sleazeball ambulance chasers are completely full of shit." But seriously, they are full of shit, and the science disagrees wholly with them.
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@urduib This is still TYT's channel. If they're advertising, then they should disclose it. On RoF's site, you can see that Cousins run articles "interviewing" this same guy for the same site. Reads like an infomercial.
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Yeah, if I sold honey, I would never think that heating it over 105ºF would make it not "raw". I mean, that's just a hot summer day.
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I find it amazing that this is even a complaint anyone's taking seriously. Of course, a lawyer will always take your money if you're willing to pay, no matter how ridiculous your case. I personally wouldn't consider this lying. They're claiming any temperature over 105ºF makes the honey no longer "raw". That's a hot summer day, not a cooking temperature.
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@Umbra_TuSlayer Why do you think hyperglycemia happens?
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@DonRice I doubt it'd be considered raw honey according to this lawsuit. Apparently, a 105º+ F day at the apiary makes the honey "not raw".
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@brandonpurdy7658 According to the lawsuit, a lot of honey couldn't even be considered raw if it got over 105ºF, which can be just a typical hot summer day in a lot of places.
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That's very true. This lawsuit isn't even about something that's a thing. The FDA has no labeling requirements for raw, which means if it's not pasteurized, it's raw, and 120º F is well below pasteurization temperatures for honey.
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That's not how diabetes works.
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According to this lawsuit, a hot day (105º+ F ) at the apiary makes the honey "not raw". It's ludicrous.
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Coldern Ice They honey has to be removed from the honeycomb, meaning it spends time outside of the hive. Derp.
1
Yep, and that right there is the real issue with honey in the US. These guys in this video, the science literally says the opposite of the nonsense they're spouting. Clearly just trying to get more clients to get more money.
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@nicot9305 The stuff from the FDA and USDA can be found online. If you go to the Ring of Fire website, you can see the articles I was talking about.
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@u235u235u235 The pasteurization of honey occurs when cooked at 145º F for 30 minutes. 120º for the purpose of pouring is nowhere near that. Polyphenols found in honey break down at much higher temperatures and exposure times than even pasteurization.
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@realtalk4994 "If you watched the video, you'd see that the science is clear on this." They sourced nothing, just made claims. "The termperature they heated their honey to is above the threshold at which those beneficial enzymes break down." Since they didn't source anything, I looked up the FDA and USDA guidelines on honey labels. As long as it's not pasteurized, it can be labeled as raw. The company literally did nothing wrong.
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@realtalk4994 "The main point here is that honey, or any food is not raw if it is heated, especially to 120 degrees." Let me heat a steak to 120º for you. I bet you'd still call it raw.
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@nicot9305 They claim that in order to be labeled as raw, it can't be heated above 105º F, but the FDA doesn't say that, and they provide no source. "There's clearly a splice 'covered up' by somebody's? cough." Edited I guess. If I'm to be frank, I honestly think this is a advertisement for Top Class Actions disguised as a news piece. Cousins has a number of articles where he features their site and interviews this same guy. I don't think we're getting full disclosure on the interests and relationships of RoF.
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@realtalk4994 "Interesting, so if I owned a grocery store and heated all my meat and produce to 120 degrees before selling it to you, you'd call it raw?" I mean, yeah. The steaks probably would be riddled with bacteria, but, yeah, it'd still be raw.
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@escapetherace1943 Are you a troll making claims without proof?
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@escapetherace1943 Do you know what gives honey its antiseptic property? Its extremely high glucose content which creates an osmotic effect. Glucose is not an enzyme.
1
Eh, it's not incorrect labeling. It's 120º F and pasteurization for honey is 145º F for 30 minutes.
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I certainly wouldn't consider this lying. They're claiming any temperature over 105ºF makes the honey no longer "raw". That's a hot summer day, not a cooking temperature.
1
Does heating it up by that 25ºF really make that much of a difference in its look, texture and taste? And what do you do for transportation? It gets hotter than 105ºF on a typical summer day in the SW US.
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@Martial-Mat They make honey wherever bees live, and that's pretty much anywhere in the lower 48, with better conditions the further south you go. Even if they didn't (which they do), they're going to be trucking the bottles through the SW to delivery to socal.
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Mason Albert Well, that's one example of rambling...
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Mason Albert I'm just a grammar Nazi. Fix your run-on sentence.
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It's not a lie. A product isn't raw when it's been pasteurized. Honey pasteurization occurs when it's been heated to 145º F for 30 minutes. It's definitely not pasteurized, so it's indeed raw.
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@o0jun0o I've come for the beer myself. :P Autocorrect?
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That doesn't mean it's not raw, however.
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@JavierRamirez-lx4ev According to the lawsuit, a lot of honey couldn't even be considered raw if it got over 105ºF, which can be just a typical hot summer day in a lot of places.
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According to this lawsuit, a hot day (105º+ F ) at the apiary makes the honey "not raw". Did you even think about that?
1
Nothing wrong with heating it to 120º F. It certainly doesn't make it 'not raw'.
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Xela Flow That's what they claimed in the video. They also didn't provide a source. Do you always believe what TYT/RoF says without even checking? The National Honey Board, states quite plainly the following on their FAQ: "Is raw honey more nutritious than processed or filtered honey? "...A 2012 study by the National Honey Board analyzed vitamins, minerals and antioxidant levels in raw and processed honey. The study showed that processing significantly reduced the pollen content of the honey, but did not affect the nutrient content or antioxidant activity, leading the researchers to conclude that the micronutrient profile of honey is not associated with its pollen content and is not affected by commercial processing."
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Xela Flow You didn't even read my post, did you? Read what I quoted.
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Eh, it's not incorrect labeling. It's 120º F and pasteurization for honey is 145º F for 30 minutes. The FDA doesn't have any stricter guidelines for what is considered "raw honey" short of pasteurization.
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Except this isn't a big deal at all. They're doing nothing wrong, the honey is still legally raw and they've destroyed none of the (minuscule as is) nutrients in the honey.
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@ronalddavies1091 Uhm, the honey isn't pasteurized and they're abiding by FDA labeling rules, so what's the problem?
1