Comments by "Alex" (@Alex-cw3rz) on "Ship vs Ship, 1 vs 1 - Why you don't see them here" video.

I think a great example is HMS Shannon who actually had a 1v1 fight in 1812, her armament and the performance of her sister ship HMS Guerriere, would show she should lose to Chesapeake, but not just did she win, she won so decisively, you'd need 4 chessapeake's too have the same number of cannon balls hitting Shannon as hit Chessapeake. This doesn't even go into the tactics and the way the Shannon had a cannon at the bow specifically placed their to act like a giant sniper rifle taking out the cheesapeakes helmsmen and wheel, this wasn't a particularly normal tactic, but won them the battle. Another example is HMS Speedy Vs El Gamo 14 guns vs 32 guns of bigger calibre, yet Speedy won. The idea of doing a 1v1 based on specs does not show training or how ships are set up differently, the accuracy or preferred tactics, it doesn't examine the captains. Or as you said when, where and why they are fighting which create 100s of different results.
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@michaelsnyder3871 apart from the length nothing you said is correct. Chessapeake had 49 guns with a 572lb broadside, 379 men Shannon had 48 guns with a 520lb broadside and 330 men. The Gueierre is said to have lost due to the sides made of iron huzzah and all that, Chessapeake had exactly the same type and thickness of wood on the sides, yet that didn't happen. Also Chessapeake had a lot more men and more guns, American ships would place more guns on their ship than the rating most likely bringing her up too close too 44 - 50 guns and Shannon had a lot less cannades as well, making her weight of fire well below Chessapeakes. Chessapeake crew weren't particularly new and were transfers from ships that were almost exact carbon copies, so that's a bit over the top especially in such a close range action.
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@pagejackson1207 sorry to be rude here but this is why you shouldn't speak on something you are not educated on. Shannon won because of numerous innovations on board. 1. Captain Broke made tangent sights for the guns 2. He added notches into the wedges the go under the cannon to aid in elevation training 3. He would blindfold his men and be given barings and had to hit a target with their cannon 4. Broke created an earlier version of director fire you can find an image of this online, they made markings on the floor so that cannon crews that couldn't see the target could be directed too fire from those positions 5. Because age of sale ships have a dip in the deck he dut down the upslope on all cannon to increase accuracy 6. They would role-play battle scenario's constantly 7. He trained his men to become experts at singlestick fighting. Shannon was known as pound for pound the best fighting ship on the planet at the time, that is why she won.
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@andrewfanner2245 yes Unicorn in Dundee and Trincomalee in Hartlepool, which can also be used in this as both of them were made 18 and 11 years after HMS Shannon making their firepower relatively weaker for the time period.
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@pagejackson1207 we knew she used the same live oak mix as Constitution the size difference is not the much meaning you definitely would not make it less thick, in fact if it was that would be a major inclusion in the redesign, yet turns up not once. Firslty Lawrence had very good seaman and more men than Broke, shake down on a sailing ships are much shorter however would have effected them but not dramatically. It's the reason Pirates and privateers could hop from one ship to another with ease. 15 minutes favours the chessapeake, in fat the fact the ships closed distance quickly favoured the chessapeake further. Fled below decks? Most of the men would already below decks, because most would be manning the guns on the lower decks and seen as that area was completely riddled with shot not sure anyone would have fled there. Lawrence was over confident this was because the Shannon had purposefully and naturally become quite dishevelled looking being on station for so long, this made Lawrence more confident, he also believed British gunnery to be poor due to his last encounter to be with a sloop, when he in reality went up against the crew with the best gunnery on the planet by quite a way.
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@thomasdracup8403 never been to it myself either, it has no masts at the moment and looks a bit Janky but for a local visit I'm sure it'll be fantastic!
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@michaelsnyder3871 chessapeake was rated at 38 guns and had more on board when captured so there's your first lie. The second point is it was a revised design same thickness wood and same wood types on the sides as Constitution and Shannon was not made of live oak like chessapeake and Constitution were. Where did you get that they were the same thicknesses and how does this do anything when both ships were made of different woods... I understand you have your precieved notions so are trying to fit reality into your peg but you just look foolish.
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@pagejackson1207 you do know he lied he said chessapeake had 36 guns this is patently false he then lies about the wood make up of the two ships and because he spoke a lot without saying anything that's all he said
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@michaelsnyder3871 the broadside weight of Chessapeake was 572lbs as captured she had 28 18 pounders, 20 32 pounders, 1 18 pounder chase gun that I left out of the equation. Shannon was 520lbs, 28 18 pounds, 16 32 pounders, 2 9 pounders, 1 6 pounder. This is readily available information now did you lie or are you just uneducated on this topic?
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@michaelsnyder3871 the broadside weight of Chessapeake was 572lbs as captured she had 28 18 pounders, 20 32 pounders, 1 18 pounder chase gun that I left out of the equation. Shannon was 520lbs, 28 18 pounds, 16 32 pounders, 2 9 pounders, 1 6 pounder and I left in all guns. This is readily available information now are you lying or can you not do simple maths?
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@michaelsnyder3871 I'd advise you to delete or edit your comments so you can stop spreading misinformation
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@michaelsnyder3871 if you calculate the broadside weight a Constitution / President with their 24 pounders that would have a broadside weight of 704lbs so a 23.5% heavier broadside than Chessapeake. Hms Shannon hit Chessapeake with 4x as many cannon balls and well over double the weight of shot, so yeah Constitution president Chessapeake the result would have been exactly the same.
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I've got a 1v1 Rozhestvensky vs Jellicoe mud fight
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@michaelsnyder3871 dude your just lying so don't bother to upload more
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@pagejackson1207 this isn't a 'difference of opinion' matter, he lied or can't do maths, his new lie is that Shannon lost more men than victory did at Trafalgar just look it up and still say difference of opinion, Shannon suffered well under half the number of casualties this is reality his is just lying and misinforming people, he said Chessapeake was a 36 guns with 520lbs of broadside in reality it wss rated as a 38 gun ship captured had 49 guns on the day with over 572lbs broadside. This is not an opinion it is fact.
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@michaelsnyder3871 the broadside weight of Chessapeake was 572lbs as captured she had 28 18 pounders, 20 32 pounders, 1 18 pounder chase gun that I left out of the equation. Shannon was 520lbs, 28 18 pounds, 16 32 pounders, 2 9 pounders, 1 6 pounder and I left in all guns. This is readily available information now are you lying or can you not do simple maths?
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@michaelsnyder3871 you're a little cowardly liar you're running around desperately trying to find sources that support you yet you keep on failing a your finding is opinion and also source with wrong numbers that even you said weren't true before, 52 guns now! What's next Shannom had 100 guns.
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@michaelsnyder3871 caught you in another lie Shannon had well under half the number of casaulties as victory did at Trafalgar.
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@pagejackson1207 have you looked at his sources they are all from the Wikipedia page and half don't even match what he said. Okay here you go for mine : English measurement methods used for both ships; dimensions from Gardiner (2006) pp. 25, 32, and armament from Padfield p. 140. Casualties Toll 2006, p. 415. Broadside 2012, Battle of Trafalgar Casualty List, that I had to find when he lied about HMS Victory having less casualties than Shannon. Did you not see how he keeps on goalpost shifting and dropped half the conversation have you seen how he he has now run away from the conversation. P.s. I spelt Chesapeake wrong twice and have it spelt correctly more often, so yeah don't go after grammar when it's obviously a typing error.
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Great video
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