Comments by "Gar Sm" (@garsm2290) on "Livid Labour voter tears into Barry Gardiner over Brexit: "You take us for idiots" | LBC" video.

  1. More people voted for parties promising staying in the EU or a people's vote than voted against them. Fact.
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  2.  @lewis123417  Labour was committed to a people's vote, it voted against Johnson's deal and opposed a hard Brexit. So the parties committed to a people's vote or remaining in the EU won a majority of votes, that's clear, it's simply a fact.
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  3. How so? More people voted for parties promising staying in the EU or a people's vote than voted against them.
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  4. More people voted for parties promising staying in the EU or a people's vote than voted against them. Fact.
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  5.  @Jimages_uk  Labour was committed to a people's vote. If you had the votes for parties committed to a people's vote to the pro-Remain parties, that's a majority of votes cast. There's no mandate for the Johnson Brexit deal, nor for the hard WTO Brexit advocated by the Brexit Party.
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  6.  @Iamtheliquor  Yes, indeed, more people voted leave than remain in 2016, but I was talking about the recent election when more people voted for parties promising a people's vote or remain. In no election or referendum has a majority voted either for what Johnson is proposing or the WTO-Brexit advocated by the Brexit Party.
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  7. That's the voting system. More people voted for parties promising staying in the EU or a people's vote than voted against them. Fact.
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  8. @Jade Kilgallon I can't follow what you are saying. In 2017 various parties said they would accept the result of the referendum. Hence the May government proposed a Brexit bill, which was voted down by parliament, including by people who wanted a different kind of Brexit. In the 2019 election, parties promising a people's vote or staying in the EU won a majority of votes (they did not win a majority of seats due to the voting system).
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  9.  @rogerwoodhouse7945  I lost? You have no idea whether I voted or not, or if the person I voted for was elected. My point was that a mjaority of those voting backed parties supporting EU membership or parties supporting a people's vote. This is just a fact - and has nothing to do with who I voted for, or whether I voted. You are confusing your own feelings with wider reality.
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  10.  @NannyWhip  Try and concentrate. Those advocating leaving the EU on either the Johnson hardish-Brexit plan or the WTO hard Brexit plan (ie the Brexit party) won a minority of votes. The majority was won by parties either committed to remaining in the EU or having a people's vote. There is clearly no majority for what Johnson is planning to do (I mean in votes, he has a majority in parliament because of the voting system). Which part can't you grasp? I'm just stating facts, I'm not adding anything to anything.
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  11.  @daveytrouble1232  Facts don't "work both ways", they are just facts. In terms of votes, a clearly minority voted for parties proposing to leave the EU on either the Johnson 'deal' or 'WTO terms' (Brexit Party) without any people's vote. A majority voted for parties either supporting EU membership or a people's vote. Facts.
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  12.  @daveytrouble1232  Yes, the Tories and Brexit Party won more votes than the Lib Dems and the Greens. But they did not win a majority of votes, which was won by parties supporting either a people's vote or remaining in the EU. There is therefore no mandate in terms of votes cast by the British people for Johnson's deal or for the WTO Brexit advocated by the Brexit Party. A majority did not vote for either option, and never has, including the 2016 referendum, which merely offered a choice between leaving and remaining.
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  13.  Merlin Fourever  What you or anyone else believes will happen isn't the point, which is a purely factual one: more people voted for parties supporting remain or people's vote than voted for parties supporting Johnson's deal or the WTO Brexit favoured by Farage. Check the figures if you don't believe me. The SNP opposes Brexit regardless of whether Scotland becomes independent or not. Saying that the Scots don't count might be seen a little-Englandish.
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  14.  @richards4986  You mean "whatever the facts, my feelings count for more". Can you see that this might a little, ell, delusional?
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  15.  @NannyWhip  Why did you think voters for parties advocating a hardish-Brexit vote without a people's vote endorsing the agreement were in the minority? Why couldn't they get more votes than parties proming either to remain or to have a people's vote on any Brexit deal?
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  16.  @daveytrouble1232  A couple more facts for you. One: women can vote as well as men. Two: the 2016 referendum did not endorse any specific kind of Brexit, it was purely binary, and so consistent with May's deal, Johnson's deal, the WTO Brexit, or even remaining in the single market (you will remember no doubt Farage praising the example of Norway during the referendum campaign). So that was three years ago. In the recent general election a majority of voters backed parties who either supported remaining in the EU or having a people's vote on a specific withdrawal proposal: a minority voted for parties supporting either the Johnson hardish Brexit proposal or the WTO hard Brexit option. Whether or not I am ill, or why you might come up with such a suggestion, doesn't change the facts.
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  17. Just as one white person one vote does not exclude blacks? May proposed a Brexit agreement that was voted down for a variety of reasons, including by Brexiteers who said it wasn't the kind of Brexit they wanted. The 2016 vote was binary, it gave no mandate for any specific kind of Brexit. And neither has the general election, when a clear majority backed parties either opposing Brexit or promising a people's vote on any specific proposal. These facts are going to become more germane as the Brexit negotiations drag on into the future.
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  18.  @richards4986  Well, there wa a defeated proposal to introduced the Alternative Vote. You're quite right of course, the Tories now have a comfortable parliamentary majority and having kicked out the one-nation Tories like Clarke they are likely to follow Johnson down whatever road he wants to take. But the lack of majority among voters for any such course may prove troublesome in times ahead, espcially if Brexit fails to deliver the promised goodies and in fact weak access to the EU27 single market costs jobs. Time will tell.
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  19.  @BattlestarDamocles  How many seats did the Brexit Party win?
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  20. @dan p Labour didn't promise remain, they promised a people's vote. These votes added to the votes for parties committed to remaining make up a mjority. Those backing parties committed to the latest Tory deal or the WTO Brexit plan were a minority. Facts.
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  21.  @NannyWhip  Right, so there was no majority for Johnson's deal, and even if you add the Brexit Party there was no majority. It is not democratic to push this deal through without a people's vote. Thank you for admitting it.
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  22. More people voted for parties promising staying in the EU or a people's vote than voted against them. Fact.
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  23.  @IBIZABIKE  I was referring to the recent general election. Parties supporting EU membrship or a people's vote won over half the votes cast. Simple fact.
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  24. @Jade Kilgallon In the UK as a whole, in 2019, just now parties promising a people's vote or to remain in the EU won a majority of votes. Fact.
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  25. Yeah, Boris Johnson really sticks up for the working class.
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  26. What has being white got to do with it? I thought Brexit was nothing to do with racism.
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  27. Dale? Maybe. It's true the Tories have brought a lot of rich Chinese into London, along with the rich Arabs and Russians. Not to mention off-shore speculators.
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  28.  @kevster1007  More people voted for parties promising staying in the EU or a people's vote than voted against them. Labour promised a people's vote.
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  29.  @Jimages_uk  Not at all. I didn't say a people's vote was the same as remaining in the EU. I said parties committed to a people's vote or to staying in the EU won a majority of votes. Parties advocating the Johnson-hardish-Brexit (Tories) or a hard-WTO Brexit (Brexit party) - both without a people's vote - won a minority of votes cast. These are facts.
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  30.  @Jimages_uk  I didn't say it was. Similarly a WTO-Brexit isn't the same as what Johnson has proposed. But the fact remains a majority of voters backed parties who pledged either staying in the EU or having a people's vote. A minority of voters backed eithe the Johnson hardish-Brexit option and the Brexit Party WTO option - hence a minority backed leaving without a people's vote. There is no mandate in terms of votes for what Johnson is going to do.
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  31.  @roberttreborable  You need to familiarise yourself with the British voting system. Are you living in the UK long?
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  32.  @Jimages_uk  Labour was committed to a people's vote, not to remaining. Together with clearly pro-Remain parties (the Lib Dems, Greens etc) the people's vote + Remain was a majority. As you say, only 45% voted for either the Johnson hardish-Brexit-but-we're-not-too-sure deal or the WTO-Brexit backed by Farage.
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  33.  @Jimages_uk  And it's nothing to do with my ego, merely putting forward some facts. The fact you find the unpalatable doesn't mean they are not facts.
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  34.  @Jimages_uk  The Conservatives expelled those who supported EU membership, they wouldn't allow them to go before the people. That wasn't my point. My point was that parties supporting remain or a people's vote won over half the votes cast. Paeties supporting the Johnson proposal or the WTO Bexit won less than half, they have no mandate in people's votes. Clear?
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  35.  @Jimages_uk  So you can agree then that a majority of voters did not vote for the Johnson hardish Brexit, even if you count in those voting for the 'WTO' Brexit of the Faragists. Hence there is no popular mandate. Parliament does not represent the way people voted. It's not democratic.
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  36. @dan p The Johnson Brexit plan will be implemented because the Tories have a majority of seats (and purged any critics before the public could vote). But there was no majority of voters for it. Even if you add the WTO-Brexit Party votes it is still a minority. Most voters chose parties promising either remain or a people's vote ... simple facts.
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  37.  Alan Roberson  Plurals in English are not formed with apostrophes. If you are going to live here, can you at least learn some basic English.
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  38. More people voted for parties promising staying in the EU or a people's vote than voted against them. Fact.
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  39. More people voted for parties promising staying in the EU or a people's vote than voted against them. Fact.
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  40.  @ronclark9724  So the 2016 referendum was meaningless.
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