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Snuzzle
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Comments by "Snuzzle" (@Snuzzled) on "What do the Trans community need most right now? Abigail Thorn u0026 Freddy McConnell | Pod Save The UK" video.

 @ribbrascal What is the "ideology" that trans people are "demanding" that you "submit" to? Please, be specific.
37
@nickthepostpunk5766 Autogynephilia is not a thing. Did you know that over 90 percent of cis women would be considered autogynephilic if they were held to the same standards as trans women? Also, the idea that "most trans people would be gay" isn't true either. Only about 1/4 of trans people identify as straight, ie, trans men attracted to women or trans women attracted to men. You seem to have a lot of incorrect information about trans people. It's no wonder you have all these "concerns" when you don't have accurate knowledge.
32
@trevorcook3129 Respecting how someone wants to be addressed is not "forced language." If Johnathan says "Please call me John," you're not being forced. You're just kind of a jerk if you say, "NO. YOUR LEGAL NAME IS JONATHAN."
21
@nickthepostpunk5766 Autogynephilia is a proposed typology wherein a person is aroused by the thought of themselves as a woman. The original paper by Blanchard was only studied in trans women, but was never compared to cis women. This was a mistake, as it meant that it was never shown to be something unique to trans women. And when cis women were held to the same standards, of ever having erotic arousal to the thought or image of oneself as a woman, 93 percent of cis women were autogynephilic according to a 2009 study One cannot declare that a condition is unique to a certain group without testing other groups, right? The relevance is, that if cis women are overwhelmingly autogynephilic, then it's just a natural part of women's sexuality. And therefore, it shouldn't be shocking or seen as a negative that trans women also experience this. It's not a condition, it's just human sexuality. Some children who are referred to gender clinics are simply gay. Those children do not get diagnosed with gender dysphoria. The criteria for gender dysphoria diagnosis in youth is extremely strict. Autism and "difficult family backgrounds" have nothing whatsoever to do with gender incongruence. Stating such is a bit like the old myth that being gay is caused by lack of a father figure in a young boy's life, or a smothering mother. Gender clinics, as I said, are very thorough in ensuring that medical steps are right for a patient before allowing them to happen. That's why the regret rate for medical transition remains the lowest of any medical procedure, at less than two percent.
21
@davetkd666 Are you suggesting that trans people are somehow infringing on people's "right to privacy, right to safety, right of children for appropriate medical care, and right of fair and equal opportunities"? Those are some extraordinary claims for which I hope you have equally extraordinary evidence to back them up.
21
@paulhammond6978 It's an oft-cited statistic by transphobes: that there was a 400 percent increase in afab adolescents being referred to NHS gender clinics. But it's important to note a few things here. First, it wasn't that long ago that the general society at large didn't even know trans men or afab trans people existed; this significantly impacts these people's ability to communicate their experiences and reality to the adults in their life, or even to understand that they're trans in the first place. Second, being referred to the clinic does not mean the patient will be diagnosed with gender dysphoria. Third, gender non-conforming behavior is much more socially acceptable among perceived girls than perceived boys. A girl who wants a short haircut, eschews dresses, plays with "boy things," etc, is far more likely to have adults just shrug it off than a boy who wants to grow out his hair, wears makeup, wants to wear a dress, etc. This ability to help alleviate social dysphoria to a degree can help explain why fewer afab adolescents see an immediate need to transition. There's much more wiggle room to say "Well, I can tolerate this, for now. Maybe forever. We'll see."
20
@trevorcook3129 No, they don't. Pronouns have always been about one's perceived gender. You yourself said it: pronouns are obvious for most people. You observe what gender you believe the person to be, and that's what you base the pronoun on. We don't go around inspecting people's chromosomes before we call them "he" or "she". Jonathan asking you to call him "John" is every bit as much of a "lie" as it is to call him "he" when he was assigned female at birth. You just only have a problem with one, but not the other. No one is demanding you to wear a pronoun badge. You're free to do so, or not to. However, you are in fact being rude if you refuse to call someone by the name, or pronouns, they've asked to be called. Bigot and transphobe aren't slurs lmao. And the Canadian bill is only for caregivers or those in positions of power who repeatedly, consistently, refuse to address someone respectfully and won't change their behavior. They ought not to be in a job where they are interacting with people if they cannot respect them.
19
@trevorcook3129 Yes. I'm pointing out that there's no difference between calling someone a name they prefer and calling someone a pronoun they prefer. Neither is "forced speech." It's all just basic respect and politeness.
18
@paulhammond6978 It's not true that there are more trans men than trans women. Simply that people now know trans men exist. We've always existed, and always been about the same level as trans women.
16
@nickthepostpunk5766 Quite sure. As I said, if you hold cis women to the same standards of autogynephilia, they are also autogynephilic. The fact that you think it "makes no sense" says a lot about your beliefs. I read what you wrote. You said, quote, "The medicalisation of children (often actually gay, autistic, with mental health problems, difficult family backgrounds, ..." Do you not stand by your words? I am aware you think trans women who are only attracted to men are gay. However, your opinion of their orientation me and exactly squat. I can assure you these women are not into other women.
15
She has, in fact, legally changed her sex. What about that isn't true?
13
@nikobellic570 I'm very sorry trans people having legal recognition is so hard for you. Best wishes to get over it soon.
13
@trevorcook3129 Well, no. Those two words were synonymous for less of their etymological life than they were not. For most of history, gender just meant "a type of kind." Wasn't until Victorian prudes who didn't like the word "sex" decided to try to make "gender" mean "sex." We don't associate adjectives or verbs with gender as we do pronouns. The only "incorrect pronoun" is if you use one the person told you not to use. It really is that simple. You keep going back to "force" because you really want to be the victim here when really, it's just rudeness. 🤷 Having a boundary isn't disrespectful, and it says a lot that you think it is.
12
@trevorcook3129 Bro, it's literally just basic respect but ok.
11
@trevorcook3129 What is "trans ideology"? You said sex and gender were synonymous "until two seconds ago." I was pointing out that no, for most of history, they weren't. You were wrong. The dictionary does not say "male as in the biological scientific term." You said that. Merriam-Webster actually defines "male" as "(a) of, relating to, or being the sex that typically has the capacity to produce relatively small, usually motile gametes which fertilize the eggs of a female (b) having a gender identity that is the opposite of female." So, no. It's not solely "the biological scientific term."
11
@chrisbfreelance It is, though.
11
@robertmarshall2502 What? No. Is that what you think social dysphoria is? Social dysphoria is a specific type of gender dysphoria. There's physical dysphoria, which is the discomfort with one's physical body. And there's social dysphoria, which is discomfort with the gendered ways in which a person is seen and treated. It's nothing to do with "reinforcing sexist stereotypes," unless you think calling a person "she" when you perceive them to be a woman is a sexist stereotype.
9
@robertmarshall2502 No, I absolutely do not think gender dysphoria is caused by a lack of acceptance for gender non-conformity and frankly I'm not sure where you got that impression.
8
 @chrisbfreelance How is it not misogyny to define a woman by her body parts?
8
@chrisbfreelance What, objectively, biologically, defines all women and only women?
8
@trevorcook3129 Yes, I know you think that. Fortunately, your opinion doesn't matter here.
7
Dr Cass herself said she believes in puberty blockers and HRT for trans minors. What's your point?
5
@nikobellic570 It would be nice if every trans person didn't have to be an advocate.
5
@cgpcgp3239 "Gender, late Middle English: from Old French gendre (modern genre ), based on Latin genus ‘birth, family, nation’. The earliest meanings were ‘kind, sort, genus’ and ‘type or class of noun, etc.’ (which was also a sense of Latin genus )."
5
@saje239 So, according to you, if we cut out all the fluff and repetition (1, 2, 3, 4, and 6 are just the same point slightly reworded) "gender ideology" is the belief that trans people exist as the gender they say they are. Then, would anti-trans beliefs not also be an ideology? The belief that sex should supercede gender, that birth sex is somehow an objective truth that has nothing at all to do with what superficial genitals the doctor observes, that biological sex isn't a spectrum, etc.
5
@saje239 It's not being forced. That's consequences for you disrespecting your coworkers, same as you may be fired if you continually call Jonathan Jonny, or if you refuse to call Mrs Robinson her new name because you don't recognize her marriage. It's not a religion, so your analogy doesn't apply. 🤷
5
@saje239 What is the ideology of trans people? Please explain.
4
@markrussell3428 Gender can be fluid. For most people, it isn't though. Sěxuality can also be fluid and is also a social construct, but it's equally very real. Transgender identity never was a "confusion related to the binary." And plenty of people who aren't trans have all those characteristics you just mentioned, naturally or surgically. Did you know nearly every gender affirming surgery was originally created for cis people, and then merely tailored to the unique anatomy of trans people? The reason we don't "affirm" eating disorders is that harms the person, physically and emotionally. Would you agree it would make an anorexic feel better or worse to tell them "You're right, you're fat, fattie"? However, we know that affirming a person's gender helps their emotional and mental health, and not doing so hurts both of those things. The only possible argument you could make is "physical harm" but is it "harm" for someone to modify their body in a way you don't like if they are happy about it? An anorexic losing too much weight will kìll them; their organs will shut down. A trans person getting top surgery is just.... a trans person who has less brěast tissue than they did before. (And most of them retain their nìpples, lol)
4
@cgpcgp3239 ok, so you're the one who said "gender ideology in the 1990s separated gender from sex." And that's why I said, no, it's a lot older than that. And now you're saying no one believes that it's that recent. All that changes is you're now dishonest instead of ignorant.
3
@ribbrascal Your problems aren't my problem, either. 🤷
3
@ribbrascal So, you're going to tell me what I do and don't think? Why do you think you know my opinions and beliefs better than I do?
2
@markrussell3428 I agree! My beliefs are as real as the concept of gender itself! 🤗
2
@ribbrascal I've never said your problems are my problems. I've just explicitly said the opposite. I don't care what problems you have, mate.
2
@ribbrascal Sweetie that wasn't a yes or no question.
2
@cgpcgp3239 When did we speak Middle English?
2
@cgpcgp3239 @cgpcgp3239 Gender: c.1300, "kind, sort, class," from O. Fr. gendre (12c., Mod. Fr. genre), from stem of L. genus (gen. generis) "race, stock, family; kind, rank, order; species," also (male or female) "sex" (see genus) and used to translate Aristotle's Greek grammatical term genos. The grammatical sense is attested in English from late 14c.; the man-or-woman from early 15c. Sex came to mean "sexual intercourse" in the late 1800s/early 1900s, and meaning "genitalia" is attested from 1938. "Sex appeal" attested by 1904. It is around this time that gender became more meaning physical sex rather than man/woman boy/girl. So, no. You are wrong, and will continue to be wrong. Gender being separate from sex was happening as early as the 1940s, perhaps earlier (we lost quite a lot of literature from the largest transgender institute in the 1930s in Germany...) This idea that so-called "gender ideology" or in other words "trans people exist" is younger than Taylor Swift is nonsense. Gender is a social construct. That's a fact. Guess what? So is the category of sex because humans created those two boxes. So of course most humans fit into one of those two boxes, because we made the boxes to fit what we saw. If we decided to categorize every human into "blue eyes" and "brown eyes" we'd find that, hey, pretty much every human fits into those boxes too! It doesn't mean very much except that we made the boxes so we decided the rules. That's all Abigail means when she said sex is changeable through medical intervention. Many, though of course not all, of the characteristics that determine which box a person goes in can be changed. When someone fits most of the characteristics of one box, and only some of the characteristics of the other, which box ought they to go in?
2
@saje239 That's a nonsense question full of buzzwords. Can you rephrase it to ask an actual question?
2
@saje239 You said, quote, "We categorize these different gametes into what we call biological sexes." I'm well aware that the characteristics of the two sex categories are more than just gametes, but I am going off of what you said I asked you to rephrase the question. You seemed perplexed at what that meant. If you feel you wasted your time, you have only yourself to blame.
2
@saje239 You wrote a whole paragraph, and then another one, but neither of them said anything about sex being defined by more than just gametes. I asked you to reword the question. You replied confused. So I reworded my request. Clearly you were confused as you came back with definitions as though I don't know what the subject we are discussing is about, rather than rewording the question. The fact that you still don't understand why your second reply was out of place shows that you were, in fact, perplexed; and continue to be. Of course male deer exist. The fact that you even have to ask that says a lot about what you believe about things, but let's humor you.
2
@cgpcgp3239 My friend, I was responding to someone who literally said that "gender ideology" came into being in the 90s. So, go talk to that person about the thing that "no one believes." 😂
2
@markrussell3428 Most people's gender never changes. It can be fluid. It typically isn't. There isn't a rush with children. It takes years and years to even get puberty blockers, and they're on those for several years to give everyone time to think and decide. "Gender will resolve with time" is demonstrably untrue. An incongruent gender identity that persists after puberty begins does not change in the overwhelming majority of people. Children are not being "căstrated." There is not a single case of a person under 17 getting bottom surgery, and that was a German woman who fought for years with debilitating dysphoria. No one is "affirming a delusion." Gender incongruence isn't a mental illness nor a delusion. It's interesting you bring up "high school girls getting brěast reconstruction." Most people don't acknowledge that the number of cis kids getting these surgeries is many times greater than trans kids, but you did. Good for you. Thousands of cis girls get brěast augmentation or reduction as teens. Hundreds of cis boys get brěast removal and reduction (gynecomastia). But a few dozen trans boys get the same surgery, and it's an issue? Why is that?
1
@nikobellic570 The feminist arguments are the pro-trans ones.
1
@mandyharewood886 Plenty of women find gay people a threat to their privacy and safety.... plenty of women find other races a threat to their safety and rights as athletes.... ought their demands to be treated as valid the same way you demand yours to be? You say that simply because you are afraid, it makes your fears factual. I reject that. Trans people do not deny you have the right to safety, comfort, dignity, and fairness. Merely that your rights to these things are not infringed upon by trans women occupying the same public spaces as cis women. No one denies that there is a difference between cis women and trans women. That's the entire reason trans people transition. You are not being "bullied" for "speaking your truth". You are being rightly argued with because your fears do not trump the rights of trans women to access the same rights you currently enjoy. They are women's spaces, not "female" spaces. Trans men do not belong in women's bathrooms and changing rooms, nor would most women feel safe sharing those spaces with them. The science and data do not agree with your opinions, regardless of how much you stamp your feet and bluster about it.
1
@saje239 Do all of those statements not stem from my assertion? A reasonable person would say yes. Biologists don't agree with you. Gender isn't souls. If gametes were what determined sex, why do doctors not do gamete tests before assigning male or female? Gametes correlate to one's sex category, but not everyone born with a vulva produces ova, not everyone born with a penis produces sperm. What you call "rare birth defects" are, in fact, natural variations in human anatomy. If sex was binary, there would not be such thing as any "rare defect" or exception. There's never a 3 in binary code. Nature does not do binaries, humans do.
1
@robertmarshall2502 Sure thing! You can look on the DSM5 and see the criteria for gender dysphoria. It includes features of both physical and social dysphoria. Yeah, i do admit, if people didn't base someone's pronouns and presumed gender off of appearance, a lot of social dysphoria would go away. But unfortunately, people are fighting back against that quite hard. You, in fact, are fighting back against that. You can see the problem. I do not have the "general idea that dysphoria is affected by society." Stop misinterpreting my statements and then going on as if I believe things I don't. The DSM does not consider dysphoria and dysmorphia to be even in the same category. Why do you think you know more than the experts who wrote it? You can take whatever I say as whatever you like. Clearly you already have as you continue to barrel boldly forward with things I've never said as if I stated them.
1
@saje239 What do you mean by "biological sex" and what do you mean by "a referent in reality"?
1
@saje239 Yes and no. I now understand that when you say "biological sex" you think it only applies to gametes, and that the gametes themselves are somehow the categories? However, you seem to have difficulty discerning the difference between a category as an abstract and the definition of said category. Gametes can be what we use to categorize individuals, but the category itself is not the same thing as the definition of the category. Furthermore, if gametes are what we use to define one's sex, then what sex are humans who naturally produce no gametes? I know what the definition of the words you use mean, I was asking you to rephrase your question. I don't know why you went off into a blustery diatribe.
1
@saje239 Which, you said, was based on gametes. You simply are looking to backpeddle. That question was me rephrasing my question because you didn't understand what I said when I asked you the first time. Blaming others for your misunderstandings may work in other areas of your life but it won't work with me. The question sounds ridiculous because you know it's a ridiculous question. The category and concept of male does not exist without humans, but the physical attributes certainly do exist. As I said before.
1
@saje239 I asked that because you didn't understand what I meant when I simply asked you to rephrase the question. I agree that most people can read your initial response and see why I said you were back peddling. If you are trying to find out what I mean when I say "sex is a social construct" and did not understand what I meant when I expanded upon that, you could simply have asked instead of asking roundabout, nonsense questions. I'm not sure where you're reading hostility but that's on you, not me. As I said: the categories are socially constructed. The physical attributes we attribute to maleness are not. I am not sure I can explain it more simply than that.
1
@saje239 "I knew what you meant" but when I told you what words, you went off onto a diatribe. So. Either you didn't know, or you did but felt like talking down to me was the appropriate thing to do whilst now constantly asking if i am the one who doesn't want polite discourse. 🤷 I explained why the question was nonsense already. I'm not repeating myself. I explained my answer already. I'm not repeating myself. We're just going round and round in circles at this point with you acting absolutely baffled that I'm not indulging in "discourse" the way you feel it ought to be done.
1
@ReckluseMusic On the 17th April, The Kite Trust and other LGBTQ+ support organisations met with Dr Hilary Cass and her team to get answers to the questions raised by trans young people and their families in the wake of the report release. Here are her answers: "In the data the Cass Review examined, the most common age that trans young people were being initially prescribed puberty suppressing hormones was 15. Dr. Cass’s view is that this is too late to have the intended benefits of suppressing the effects of puberty and was caused by the previous NHS policy of requiring a trans young person to be on puberty suppressing hormones for a year before accessing gender affirming hormones. The Cass Review Report recommends that a different approach is needed, with puberty suppressing hormones and gender affirming hormones being available to young people at different ages and developmental stages alongside a wider range of gender affirming healthcare based on individual need.”
1
@cgpcgp3239 Your assertion that so-called "gender ideology" is different from being trans is as old and tired as the homophobic assertion that it's new to be gay, and prior to the 1990s people merely "claimed to be attracted to the opposite sex." Do you think trans women, prior to the 90s, did not access women's spaces? You acknowledge that they "tried to live as best they could as the opposite sex" but then just a few sentences ago, you claim it's new and "gender ideology" to allow trans women into women's spaces, or to be treated as a woman. Even you cannot completely separate this so-called, alleged new "gender ideology" from.... merely existing in society as trans.
1
@itcouldbelupus2842 Posey "I think armed men should go into women's rooms and harass anyone they think doesn't belong there" Parker? Posey "I'm not a feminist" Parker? Posey "I think men should claim to identify as women and use women's toilets" Parker? Posey "any woman who stands in my way will be annihilated" Parker?
1
@ribbrascal That's not a trans "ideology," that's something every human being expects. Do people generally demand you prove that you're a bloke before calling you "sir"? Or do they just believe you are because you said you are and you look like a bloke?
1