Comments by "ootmaster1" (@ootmaster1) on "Biden, Harris, and the No-Win Minimum Wage Battle" video.
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@jasonx7501 hey buddy, no one is buying your bullshit.
"Aside from the obvious plus of all bottom earners being able to afford to live, more money in more hands means more goods and services being purchased, thus driving commerce."
This is circular reasoning my dude, they dont get more money, it raises the ceiling so the government can collect more in taxes. " afford to live" while rent and property values continue to skyrocket, and the government allowed millions and millions of more people to pour into the country flooding the labor market, and artificially inflating the cost of living. Goods and services will cost more as an end result, no one gets ahead, and more people are pulled onto the floor.
"A higher minimum wage lowers the tax burden on everyone"
No, this means the government collects more in taxes, because thats how percentages work...
"since minimum wage today is such a joke, most people that work these jobs require government assistance just to get by."
And the reason for this is the government wants more people to be on the public dole..
all you are doing is increasing the number of people on minimum wage while doing nothing to address the problems of wage stagflation or artificially high cost of living..... it just makes more poor people
"Of coarse, the minimum wage issue in the US wouldn't be an issue if there wasn't such strong anti-union practices"
Unions are shit, and are a cancer to the labor industry. they are filled with cronies and corrupt individuals, that drags the entire union behind them and vote for terrible policies and vote for terrible politicians
"Labor unions are great in that they give workers more power to negotiate wages with companies and find a balance with their needs and the financial needs of the company."
Except they dont actually DO that. Its all a crony scam, just like government jobs. they gatekeep who runs unions, they gatekeep jobs, they even keep terrible employees because of nepotism and corruption, just look at the teachers unions ffs, im sure some are ok, but the vast majority are just as broken and corrupt as the governments they pander to...
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@Mezzo396
goddamn
1)" A 2010 study by Dube, Lester and Reich examined border counties on all instances nationwide where states raised MW. They found no evidence of detrimental effects on low-wage employment. This study is considered to be one of the gold standard studies for the sheer breadth of data it analyzes."
how is examining border countries going to give you data nationwide? I fail to see how increasing the supply of low wage workers has no effect on low wage jobs. feels like a source rebutting an argument im not making?
Overall, the evidence is strong that increasing the minimum wage (at current and historical minimum wage levels) leads to increases in incomes for low-wage workers.
sounds like magical bullshit.
2) "Look up marginal tax rates. Increased wages amongst low income earners isnt offset by the increase in taxation, they are still taking home a larger pay/additional hours."
again, not rebutting anything i said
3) "This argument doesnt make sense really - you have a ideologies that fall along a spectrum. Some believe in greater government action for the benefit of people, some don't. No one wants this for the sake of being dependent on government, they believe its a neccessity to protect the role of labor versus capital in an economy. Not sure why you mention stagflation, inflation in the US has remained below the targeted rate for decades. Wage stagnation is a real and isn't solved by giving capital owners larger tax breaks and deregulating labor standards.
?????????
4) "Unions are the only way for labor to organize and demand concessions from capital."
no
"Give me an alternative example of how labor can negotiate anything substantial if it isn't organized"
" i want X for my labor, no? im leaving."
"Employers hold massive power over individual workers in the US. Complaining about unions being corrupt is asinine, are you actually going to pretend big capital isnt corrupt? "
This isnt changing my point, or my mind on the subject. but go off some more
"If ALL systems have levels of corruption why does it matter, I'd rather have a system that is designed for the purpose of bargaining better wages and benefits from my corporate master."
Except because they are corrupted they dont do that and only serve global masters, and corporates masters....
6) "Corporations are far more corrupt and powerful than unions in the US."
Laughable assumption thanks though
"Except corporations are legally required to prioritize shareholder value, and I as an employee 0 power alone in negotiating concessions as a result"
This has nothing to do with the discussion whatseover
"Who cares if my union boss peddles a union job to his son if my CEO peddles a company to job his as well"
its the same thing? and i dont have to pay to be in a corrupt union? its like you ignore what i stated, and made arguments for things im not saying to prove a point or something,.
"The difference is the CEO is looking to lower my wage to boost his profit while my elected union boss has to deliver something."
The union boss doesnt have to deliver anything. its like you arent payin attention
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@Mezzo396
"How is the mw related to immigration?? You haven't made a point here. The minimum wage does what to immigration in the US? A minimum wage means a wage cannot go below it, immigrants cant drive it any lower. "
Ok, follow me on this one. Immigration (legal) increases the labor supply, making job turnover a non issue, as most places have lists of applicants constantly. This relates to my original point, where i brought up my example where an older employee dissatisfied with watching his hard work disappear as the min wage goes up to just under his new wage, asks for a higher wage, then is replaced by another worker. This example unironically happened to me twice , the second wasnt because of a min wage increase, but the same " fire the higher paid employee who complained with a new employee who needs a job" secondly, this doesnt even take into account under the table jobs, where even the government MW laws matter.
"Make an argument that is different then."
I reiterated what i said in the above comment.
Three things
1) If the new min wage now reflects your current wage, you as a more skilled laborer can negotiate a higher wage as a result. The raising of the floor doesn't disempower you in a negotiation.
I explained this above. employers would rather fire the higher paid employees and higher new employees because its cheaper. These types of decisions are made by people who usually are unable to actually do the job themselves...
"If you have skills that previously made you more valuable to an employer than the minimum wage earners this hasn't changed, except that your boss can't fire you for cheaper less skilled workers as they would cost the same as you currently do."
Yes, if the new wage is exactly the same as the older employees wage. but they can still fire you for wanting more money, they just find ways to do it.
2) If poorer people make more money and now make as much as you do, and the cost of living (inflation) does not increase, why do you care?
because the cost of living DOES go up
because if i work longer and harder only for the floor to rise up to me, what is the point of working harder? just keep demanding higher min wages
3) The study is the gold standard in the US on the impacts of minimum wage increases and labor market. How many studies have you mentioned so far? You have only given your opinion
feels more to appeal to authority more than having anything of substance brought to this discussion.
"immigration and the mw aren't related in the US"
I mean, everything is related, but ok dude
"Not to mention immigration's impact on deflating wages is minimal"
fucking laughable bullshit
"benefit to the economy as a whole."
nonsense
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@Mezzo396
"Ok, follow me on this one. Immigration (legal) increases the labor supply, making job turnover a non issue, as most places have lists of applicants constantly. "
1) This doesn't have anything to do with the mw. If I increase the min wage, how does this impact immigration into the US? Illegals aren't entitled to a mw, and legal immigration is fixed under different legislation. The supply of legal labor is already occuring regardless of a mw or not. Immigration and mw are seperate.
This is because you keep pretending none of these things are related in a system that they are all apart of... Immigration is a point i brought up as a response to raising the min wage is not actually solving the problem
2) The number of jobs inside the economy is not fixed. An increase in labor supply does not mean there are less jobs - this is the lump supply of labor fallacy. Increasing labor supply also increases labor demand because new people in an economy need more goods and services, in turn requiring more jobs to provide them.
Im not pretending that jobs are a fixed number in the economy. YOU are discounting the effect a endless labor pool has on relative employment. How do you even figure that this increase in labor increases demand? What good is this if the large numbers of people coming in are also the ones servicing others movin on in, leaving the people already here to fight for wahtever other jobs may exist in an economy where turnover is better than paying employees more, because there is always more people lining up for that job...
3) When has low skilled labor been in short supply in the US? When has there not been underemployment in the US in the low skilled job market?
When has that ever been something i said? but ok
"This relates to my original point, where i brought up my example where an older employee dissatisfied with watching his hard work disappear as the min wage goes up to just under his new wage, asks for a higher wage, then is replaced by another worker."
1) Sounds like this worker would have benefited from a union where he could collectively bargain for higher wages with his capital owner counterpart. A single low skilled laborer has no power in the relationship.
Right, then the same cronyism, and corruption that is currently in place in the corperate environment is then taken up by the uinion environment. Raising the min wage is not the solution
2) How does increasing the mw make his hard work dissapear?
Working hard, displaying proficiency at the workplace, and earning raises
"He isn't a skilled laborer then if he can be replaced by a low skilled mw worker at cost."
So unskilled labor can go fuck themselves? so unskilled labor cant get work experience, wage increases and transfer into other departments? why do all the hard work when you can just advocate for increasing min wage. then it doesnt matter
This example unironically happened to me twice , the second wasnt because of a min wage increase, but the same " fire the higher paid employee who complained with a new employee who needs a job" secondly, this doesnt even take into account under the table jobs, where even the government MW laws matter."
1) Sounds like you needed a union then.... You literally gave me this very scenario as a legitimate example of how unorganized labor should get a better wage. Sounds like even you acknowledge unorganized labor has relatively little power.
a union will not solve the problem with working retail, or in tech services. Unions will inevitably just inflate the costs of everything around them, crony up with corrupt government, and generally screw the lowest in the union while protecting terrible employees.... like most other unions
2) This is an anecdote. Studies in the US show that mw increases do not lead to a drop in jobs and instead lead to a rise in low income earners.
its all relative and meaningless if the reduce hours. also im a little tire of muh studies show, the entire academic institution is also corrupt, and you can get a study to say whatever you want and mostly serve as appeals to authority while discussing any given topic.
"I explained this above. employers would rather fire the higher paid employees and higher new employees because its cheaper. These types of decisions are made by people who usually are unable to actually do the job themselves.."
1) Sounds like an argument for labor to organize to collectively bargain concessions while protecting their jobs from the owner class.
Sounds like most of the wage increases will go to taxes and union dues, while not actually solving the problem with corruption, while simultaneously not addressing the overarching issues of immigration and outsourcing on the job market...
2) Hypothetical scenario - the current employees at $15 would either be skilled workers in lower income areas, or low skilled workers in high COL areas / with existing $15 min wage. A raise to $15 at a fed level wouldnt impact the latter, so lets look at the former. Assuming no unions here.
Can the owner fire the employee at $15 today and hire a lower cost employee at $7? Yes they can. So today the owner is already paying a premium above the floor rate for perceived skills. The skilled laborer has some leverage with his higher skilled labor in the negotiation, but at the end of the day the Cost/benefit anaylsis the owner can do always gives him the option to reduce labor costs.
If the gov raises the mw to $15 can he fire the higher skilled employee and higher the lower cost at $7? No. So the employer loses the ability to shirk costs off for lower skilled lower cost labor. How does the higher skilled older $15 laborer lose power in this scenario? His boss cant fire him for cheaper because hes already at the bottom.
The only person who gains power in this negotiation is higher skilled laborer, because unlike the previous scenario, the capital counterparty has less options.
How? raising the MW doesnt raise wages above it relative to its increase. just because the lowest jobs are now 15 doesnt mean everything in-between the old MW and the new MW increases relative to the MW, so his skills at 15 are only worth what other jobs will offer
"Yes, if the new wage is exactly the same as the older employees wage. but they can still fire you for wanting more money, they just find ways to do it. "
1) Again sounds like an argument for a union and better labor protection laws
muh unions ok dude, read above replies to muh unions
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@Mezzo396
"They aren't related today because no one is passing a bill on immigration, nor does passing one law mean you cannot pass the other. The amount of immigrants that are coming tomorrow and the day after etc. is fixed under a different set of laws. Given those are not changing today, why oppose a bill that helps poor people now. Your opposition to immigration is irrelevant to the mw because they are fucking seperate ideas and laws. My ideology isn't satisfied with a mw change either but I'm not opposed to it simply because it doesn't give me everything I want in the economy. Its a basic improvment for the lives of millions of American poor."
Because its not going to actually help the poor. its just passing the buck and letting the actual problems continue, because ACTUALLY SOLVING THEM isnt good for those in power, because continuing the status quo is what they want. My opposition doesnt really matter because its going to be done regardless.
I just explained how labor supply increases labor demand - humans consume goods and services. More humans = more consumption.
this is a how it happens on paper vs how it actually happens. the systems and infrastructure already in place dont have unlimited capacity to expand and grow, and resources arent infinite.
Stopping immigration isn't stopping population growth.
right, i ddint say it did
Look up the lump supply of labor fallacy and read about it yourself.
i did, which is also why i said "Im not pretending that jobs are a fixed number in the economy"
Low skilled labor is not in short supply today, we have massive underemployment. Adding more doesn't matter because there is already a high supply of low skilled labor by definition, anyone in the labor market can fufill it. The number of jobs will increase as the number of people increase. They arent fighting for THAT job, they are fighting over an increasing number of jobs as a result of any population growth that has happened for the past 50000 years.
"the systems and infrastructure already in place dont have unlimited capacity to expand and grow, and resources arent infinite. "
There is only so much space, there is only so many things that can be made at any given time. Im trying to address issues that go back decades, adn have been problems for decades, because the only things that get passed are things that continue the status quo for the people in charge...
"Right, then the same cronyism, and corruption that is currently in place in the corperate environment is then taken up by the uinion environment. Raising the min wage is not the solution"
1) Can I vote my CEO out? Can I influence him in any serious way?
Can you vote in a union where the same cronyism in government takes place, and we have people we dont like doing things we dont want them do to under the guise of a democratic vote?
2) What is the purpose of a union? What is the purpose of the corporation? Are they different?
Yes of course they are different, why does that matter?
3) Why do studies show wealth inequality increasing and wages stagnating as labor unions were killed in the mid-late 20th C?
When did jobs start getting exported to other counties and what governmental laws or regulations led to this? When did immigration laws change? Unions can only work if the same people who work there way into local governments , are not able to run the unions, but this always ends up happening. Im not anti union, im pro pointing things out that arent going to fix the problem, and are just bandaids
4) Why does Germany still have a strong manufacturing sector and the US doesn't?
Because the US government has sold out the American people for over a hundred years? your evil CEO's are the same types for people running the government and end up being the same people that gain control of major unions.....
In your world - we would be subject to the corrupt corporate overlords and capital class,
right because we could just trust the unions to not do the same thing our elected officials do when they are the same people as muh evil CEO's...
"enjoy the bootlicking"
Lol sure bud that TOTALLY it
Explain any other scenario whereby unorganized labor has a real chance of demanding concessions for a better living.
i dont have a scenario, but maybe infinite growth isnt a good thing for the little guy, so maybe address that problem, along with corrupt governments in bed with global multinationals, or everything else is moot
How has the fact that your boss has underpaid you for your work mean your hard work dissapears?
disappears because the time spend working and becoming better at the job no longer matters, because now the new wage is higher.
You are being screwed today by your capital owner and have decided to blame the poor and powerless person below you. Fucking christ.
Thats not at all what im doing but go off champ, go off
Unskilled labor gets fucked already my dude. What are you talking about? The boss can fire the unskilled worker today the minute he wants to.
right, and all raising the min wage does is raise the poverty floor making more people the same level of poor as min wage.
You have bought into the lie your corporate overlords have sold you - work hard little good piggy and one day you'll earn the right to clean the sports car they earned off your work.
I guess the only work that exists is corporate work because small business dont exist anymore because they cant compete, dont have the massive capitol to afford endless government regulation and taxation, same with all those self employed people who again cant compete.
Heres a basic hint - if a boss make money off work you do he is exploiting your labor for himself.
Sounds like marxs theory of surplus value, but then by this very definition every single job is exploitation of labor
He can do this because of the current system of capitalism that has sold you a lie that hard work means something when the only thing that matters is power in the relationship and how much profit the capital class makes off of it.
muh capitalism is the bad guy
Power is not earned by hard work for the low skilled laborer, because right behind them is the next generation of teenagers and immigrants and the older recently laid off people clamoring for work. Power is only possible by labor organizing into a block to demand together a concession from the capital owner that he cannot exploit by firing
yup self employed, small business, and climbing the job ladder dont exist in your world
But in your worldview the issue is immigrants coming in and stealing a job a Mexican with no degree and no English can do well enough to still make money for his owner. Why blame this poor fucker instead of the asshole firing and hiring people to buy himself a 2nd home.
Because the same fucker hiring them is the same fucker in charge of the unions, and the same fuckers in charge of the government, and the same fuckers in charge of these corporate global industries. Why would they solve any of the problems that are working out really well for them...
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@Mezzo396
"It raises their earnings without hurting their job prospects and increasing their COL. Its literally an improvement today and the only reason so far you've opposed it is somehow you want them to stop immigrants. Its unrelated."
Yeah its clear you dont actually want to have a discussion here, because that is not at all the only reason i oppose it. but please continue being dishonest
Imagine being a capitalist and not believing in infinite growth.
Imagine calling someone a capitalist while not doing capitalist things. Its almost like you arent arguing with me, you are arguing with a caricature of what you think my thoughts opinions and beliefs are are based off of your willful misinterpretation of my words.. amazing
We also havent reached any sort of capacity in the US. We are 27 times less densely populated than the UK.
Nah, we are pretty close to capacity and what the blue fuck does the UK have to do with my argument? you think the same things dont apply to the UK? of course it does.
"Raising the mw is not status quo, its the fucking opposite."
Uh, not doing anything to solve the problems causing the need for raising the MW is absolutely status quo
"The founding fucking ideas of our country are population growth and immigration."
No they arent
Literally every motherfucker here other than those on reservations are descendents of immigrants or slaves to this land.
There is a vast chasm of a difference between pre 1965 immigration and post 1965 immigration. this also discounts that immigration 100 years ago was nothing like immigration today, and vast swaths of the country were uninhabited.
"I have more power in my union than I do in a company without a union."
Perceived power sure
"Blaming the brown guy isnt solving my issues at work."
yeah thanks for strawmanning my argument, good work showing me how honest you are.
"Companies are corrupt and CEOs use this corruption to enrich themselves. But CEOs also enrich shareholders. Union bosses can be corrupt to, but dont get anything from enriching shareholders."
Right, they just enrich themselves, and the crony government employees that use these unions for their own needs...
"When did jobs start getting exported to other counties and what governmental laws or regulations led to this? When did immigration laws change? Unions can only work if the same people who work there way into local governments , are not able to run the unions, but this always ends up happening. Im not anti union, im pro pointing things out that arent going to fix the problem, and are just bandaids"
"My great grandparents took a boat with no money and no knowledge of English, had no degrees and no skilled labor. All they had to do was walk off the boat into the US and signed papers to become citizens. Was the country great then? Laws have only become more stringent over the history of this country. I dont know what the fuck you are talking about with immigration in the US, most of us aint from a fucking tribe"
And i dont know what the fuck you are talking about here...
Jobs got exported because unions got crushed by government and corporations.
So government causes the problem, then offers teh solution, amazing, almost like ive heard this problem raction solution thing before....
Any power they had was wiped out and good ol neoliberalism helped them along the way. you have no answer to fix the problems other than stopping immigration to a country founded by fucking immigrants.
No the country was founded by pioneers and settlers, and were of from European descent. " nation of immigrants" is some bullshit gaslighting adn historical revisionism by the powers that be.
CEOs and union bosses arent the same.
thanks for pointing out the obvious
You can tell that because Union bosses lost all their power and CEOs have become richer over the past decades.
And these ceos do this by using government intervention to destroy competition, and craft favorable legislation, i guess the only solution is more government.....
"The only thing you're worldview has done is genocide minorities in communities and put immigrants in boxes while letting the rich still rob us."
Wow and i thought you were lost before... its almost like you have no intention of understanding what im talking about, and only want to push your worldview onto me
"i dont have a scenario, but maybe infinite growth isnt a good thing for the little guy, so maybe address that problem, along with corrupt governments in bed with global multinationals, or everything else is moot
"
Without growth capitalism fails. Stop being a capitalist then
what the fuck are you talking about? why do you need infinite growth? what the fuck is an actual capitalist then? you seem to think you know me, but clearly you dont
"Corrupt governments in bed with global multinationals are going to be stopped how? You oppose organized labor. You oppose government regulation to disempower capital owners. You only approve of government actions on borders."
Gee i dunno, what would more government regulation ( lobbied by these ceos and miultinationals) going to do other than continue the status quo?
"Honest question, do you sympathize with facists?"
No? so am i a capitalist or a fascist? which one? are they interchangeable? read my mind some more and tell me what i think some more...
You have no solution but banging on migrants so far.
because thats how the conversation turned? and you keep telling me its a non issue?
heres a solution
End the fed
End federal income tax
Massive tarrifs on imported goods
but that work work either, because the mechanism to deliver those solutions is continually subverted but the powers that be
If these poor are now better off what difference does it make? Is your issue that you think poor people with nothing don't deserve the scraps you've managed to claw from your capital owners? Does the piggy think hes special because they gave him a little more than your brown neighbour?"
Its like you arent trying to have a discussion, its sad and pathetic that you just name call... imagine acting like this... just imagine disregarding what i say, and just putting words in my mouth and calling me names... can you imagine?
Guess we just have to let corporations off the hook because god forbid the small business would be subject to a regulation. Cant use organized labor, cant use government, only can watch videos on yt and comment about migrants.
Yeah or we could address the problem with cronyism and corruption in the system instead of trying to use the system to change the system, thatll totally work and not do the exact same things thats been done for decades. this time it will SURELY work
"Sounds like marxs theory of surplus value, but then by this very definition every single job is exploitation of labor"
Ding ding ding
Oh boy, i hear helicopters now!
"muh capitalism is the bad guy"
muh immigrants in a country of immigrants that used to be great when it was just my kind of immigrants. also muh infinite growth but not infinite growth.
Yeah crazy its almost like you arent being honest here. thanks though, wouldnt expect much different from a marxist
"yup self employed, small business, and climbing the job ladder dont exist in your world"
If you work extra hard im sure your nice owner will give some more good boi points to spend, just make sure not to ask for too many good boi points because hell fire you.
Again, complete dishonesty here
"Because the same fucker hiring them is the same fucker in charge of the unions, and the same fuckers in charge of the government, and the same fuckers in charge of these corporate global industries. Why would they solve any of the problems that are working out really well for them."
Where are the unions my dude? They were bashed in the skull by corporations in 20th C.
yeah crazy it was almost like the government lobbied by corperations and multinationals destroyed the country... weird how you want to use the same governments to fix the problem they cause with solutions they propose...
Yeah Id love a revolution but I aint getting one today, I'll take my basic shit like a living wage today and fight for the rest tomorrow. I aint wasting my breath on trying to kick out my brown neighbors for trying to make a living.
yeah muh skin color
you are a sad sad unhappy marxist, and its kind of pathetic
you know i could have sworn marx said something about immigration being bad for the working class....
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@Mezzo396
We're back to the part where you go off on how you never said this and this wasnt your argument ad nasuem. Fun.
Oh you mean another episode of " if i deny im doing it i can just call him a liar"
"See above"
See below
Oh you mean another episode of " if i deny im doing it i can just call him a liar"
"Source we are at capacity? The fact we have a population density that is TWENTY SEVEN TIMES less than the UK and the UK isnt a collapsing black hole is probably solid evidence the US isnt at anything close to capacity.
yeah i guess if you account that having massive population centers isnt already pushing capacity, and housing is totally not an issue in the uk, ok pal. Piling more and more people into population dense cities isnt going to make any of this better....
"Should we start planning on implementing population controls to reduce birth rates too?"
Or we could oh i dunno, reduce immigration a little? i mean its not like were taking more immigrants now than ever before or anything..
"the populations growing regardless buddy."
no shit, whos saying they dont? Im sure not...
"Uh, not doing anything to solve the problems causing the need for raising the MW is absolutely status quo"
The problems arent immigrants to a country founded by fucking immigrants.
Immigration is a part of the problem, this is a nation of settlers and pioneers, but go ahead and keep giving my that garbage line some more.
We put a poem about it on a giant statue in one of our most prominent cities.
It has nothing to do with the statue, and was written by an immigration lobby group member, but yeah totally legit
"We handed out citizenship to fuckers like it was candy. White people arent native to this land, by definition our founding was based on immigration from one place of origin to this one."
You are conflating land mass with nation, and immigration in the last few decades is far far different than immigration of over a hundred years ago, so dont give me this nonsense
"There is a vast chasm of a difference between pre 1965 immigration and post 1965 immigration. this also discounts that immigration 100 years ago was nothing like immigration today, and vast swaths of the country were uninhabited. "
What are the vast chasms of differences
Sheer numbers of immigrants first off. then we can talk about the infrastructure and economy differences in both eras, we can talk about where they come from, and we can talk about the forming of ethnic enclaves and get into a discussion about multiculturalism, but im 99% sure you dont want an honest discussion
And yeah minus the millions of Native Americans it was totally empty. It wasnt like a giant genocide was committed to move in.
yeah because all native americians were all the same, and nothing else happened other than white man bad hurting non white man
Facts and data disagree. Organized labor is more powerful than unorganized labor.
You have the same power the average citizen has from keeping the US from bombing the middle east... so effectively none
Back to the first comment
Oh you mean another episode of " if i deny im doing it i can just call him a liar"
"Study after study shows the correlation between union decline and wage staganation and wealth inequality."
You point out to me the capitalist class is evil, yet you keep quoting words from people who benefit from their existence...
what the hell are you talking about it was a walk in the park?
"So government causes the problem, then offers teh solution, amazing, almost like ive heard this problem raction solution thing before...."
Do you think all government action is the same?
No, but all action from corrupt governments will almost always benefit the corrupt ones...
"If the government does something that is bad, that doesnt somehow make any government action bad. This isnt an argument."
This isnt the argument im making.....
The country was founded by immigrants
ok, whatever you say dude
"They are not native to this land, this land was not empty, it was occupied by another civilization."
No, it actually wasnt, native Americans werent a monolith, and yes vast majority of the land was empty, but please continue with your historical revisionism
" White people are not native to the Americas."
And native americians arent native to those lands either, they too migrated from elsewhere, like every single peoples before...
"How does the European descent matter unless you have some prevailing notion about non white immigration?"
Because Europeans are a global minority but are always the bad guy in the historical sense, and pointing out that majority European nations are becoming minority European is somehow bigoted and racist to point out...
"And these ceos do this by using government intervention to destroy competition, and craft favorable legislation, i guess the only solution is more government..."
So again no organized labor, no government action. Just sit back because you have no other solutions to a problem.
Or stop giving the establishment what it wants and try to actually address actual problems instead of living inside the controlled left right paradigm
"Once again see first comment"
Once again, my reply
Oh you mean another episode of " if i deny im doing it i can just call him a liar"
"Capitalist economies without growth is in a depression."
so there is no such thing as a self sustaining economy?
"Read the first comment."
Oh you mean another episode of " if i deny im doing it i can just call him a liar"
"You could, you know, utilize organized labor to lobby on labors behalf for concessions? Ban money in politics, end citizens united. There are plenty of anti corruption legislative items that could be passed. Social security, medicare, civil rights act are all massive government passed actions that broke the status quo, several of these are against the interests of capital."
If you think those things are against the status quo i cant really say anything
It was a question. You arent a fascist then?
Well im not a capitalist, yet you call me one, now you assume im a fascists,. so clearly you have differing definitions of what these terms mean
"read the first comment."
Oh you mean another episode of " if i deny im doing it i can just call him a liar"
"heres a solution
1 End the fed
2 End federal income tax
3 Massive tarrifs on imported goods
but that work work either, because the mechanism to deliver those solutions is continually subverted but the powers that be"
Explain how any of this helps the working class, deals with wage stagnation and wealth inequality.
1. Having a non government run 3rd party given the power to control the money supply, is a recipe for disaster
"He who controls the money supply of a nation controls the nation."
2. the federal income tax, originally being sold as a temporary war effort, manages to suck away wealth from the lowest paid. Before you tell me the poor dont pay taxes, im talking about the people who work and are taxed at a both federal and state level and cant afford legions of lawyers to avoid paying endless taxes to a government that is corrupt and funnels money into crony programs, hence the trillions in debt...
3. before the income tax was implemented the cast majority of federal money came from tariffs. Making it more expensive to import goods rather than to make them locally would undoubtedly help return manufacturing to the country instead of relying on nations the world across, helping both domestic job markets, and the environment as many of the nations where things are imported from have much lower emissions and pollution standards and laws.
Whining again, first comment applies.
Oh you mean another episode of " if i deny im doing it i can just call him a liar"
"Explain your solution to dealing with cronyism"
Uhhh stringing up politicans and lobbyists by lightpoles in minecraft?
Cute, do you sympathize with fascists killing commies then? Honest question.
do you sympathize with socialist famines and mass deaths? honest question
Another whine, think about 50% of your response has been this without ever addressing a single point.
Oh you mean another episode of " if i deny im doing it i can just call him a liar"
"yeah crazy it was almost like the government lobbied by corperations and multinationals destroyed the country... weird how you want to use the same governments to fix the problem they cause with solutions they propose..."
This one time my government dropped a few nukes. This other time it genocided a bunch of people. Yesterday it sent a check to my grandma for living expenses. Kinda like the government can do different things depending on who you put in charge of it and what you want it to do. Almost like some action is good and some other actions are bad. Weird.
Yeah, the average person can control if my governmetn nukes people the same way you can control a union...
"yeah muh skin color
you are a sad sad unhappy marxist, and its kind of pathetic"
Your the only person complaining about migrants not of European descent here. Im happy enough with my life as it is, just glad I dont blame the brown guy for my issues, because darn it we were doing real swell till we hit 300million people or some arbitrary number.
Yeah again, its almost like you arent addressing what im saying... like a dishonest marxist or something
"whining"
Oh you mean another episode of " if i deny im doing it i can just call him a liar"
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