Youtube comments of ootmaster1 (@ootmaster1).
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its because for decades t hat is all the drilled everyone with.
" go to college, you dont want to work a mcjob forever do you?"
Its become a giant scam, jobs that dont require 4 years of education are now asking for 4 year degrees + experience. All that happened was college became defacto required for anything other than manual labor, and even trades are inundated with this nonsense. Thousands and thousands for certificates, licenses, etc. Not saying that having debt isnt a self inflicted wound, and thankfully i wasnt an idiot.
" its unrealistic to be able to support yourself as an adult"
You seem to forget that we are all players in a game where we dont control the rules...
We didnt ask for massively inflated housing prices, we didnt ask for million of immigrants, we didnt ask to allow foreigners to buy up property with manipulated funny money ( china), we didnt ask for manufacturing to be shipped out of the country, we didnt ask to have workers imported to the country, we didnt ask to bail out the banks, we didnt ask to pump more debt currency into the economy, we didnt ask for the government to take a third of our income, we didnt ask for never ending regulations.....
At what point can we start talking about how out of control everything is????
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Theos CA No, you presented me with garbage
"China contained Covid-19, America failed, America is equal to Brazil and Mexico when it comes to containing the pandemic "
What kind of " fact" is this?
Welding people inside, lying constantly, and disappearing whistleblowers is " containing" it?
"China has the best education on the planet according to the International PISA tests. Hong Kong has the second, and Hong Kong’s school system is the same as Mainland China. Americans literally live in an alternate reality where vaccines are a “communist strategy to give you autism”. This is a product of the third-world level American education."
wow its internationalist global initiatives. neat. i guess we can ignore how chinese studens can excel at rote memorization but fail at everything creative. nah, lets just shill the internationalists. Also dont forget the us government destroying the education system was done on propose, lookin at " no child left behind" and " common core" education is doing exactly what it was intended to.
"China is the country which has seen the most economic growth and social development in human history. Only 50 years ago China was behind several African countries, China is now the second economic powerhouse in the World and it will surpass America in 5-10 years. "
Yeah its almost like decades of the US selling itself out to china while china infiltrates the US government has something to do with it...
"More than 300 million people have overcome poverty in China in the last 10 years. That’s equivalent to the entire population in America."
ANd where do you see in the US suicide nets and dumping hazardous waste into rivers? oh right,. you dont.... strange
"China deals with Islamic terrorism in Xinjiang by means of educating vulnerable targets of islamism. America just bombs them (there is literally a video of an American military officer explaining his solution to Uyghur terrorism in Afghanistan, he suggested to just bomb the entire city)
"
LOL you mean how they put them in " reeducation camps"?
"Whilst Child Trump and Bolsonaro were acting like animals denying science and playing RPG in the United Nations meeting... Chinese president Xi Jinping acted as an adult, calling for international cooperation and strive for worldwide development and avoiding the catastrophic environmental crisis that we are facing Right now. "
Imagine actually believing this tripe
"America literally installed theocracies in the Middle East + Bombed the region because Oil prices went up due to the Democratically Elected Arabic Governments wanting to work together and sell their country’s goods for a fair price. Don’t talk about Imperialism. American companies own Capital and Land in many parts of the World. Do I also have mention how all Latin American countries had Military dictatorships installed by the American State?
"
I guess we should talk about the isreal lobby and the federal reserve if you wanna start with muh American imperialism
"China does economic and diplomatic deals and all African countries which have worked along China are now in massive economic growth, not only that, the people and the government of those countries are all happy to have a trade partner which RESPECTS their Nationhood. "
They literally shit all over Africans and treat them like garbage
... you arent even trying to not be disingenuous
"The Chinese constitution clearly states that China is supported to never intervene in foreign affairs. China has a long lasting historical tradition of not interfering in other cultures and nations. Modern China never invaded a single country on the planet, and no amount of American propaganda will change that.
"
I guess if you control the timelines of your framing statements, you can make anything look good. this is what i mean you arent even here to be honest
"Minorities in China have social and legal privileges. "
Ahh like being thrown in reeducation camps?
"They have quotas for everything and they have rights to create an ethnic township if they so desire. Not only that, ethnic minorities in China are to receive lesser sentences compared to the Han Chinese Majority. It’s in the Law."
If you believe what the chinese government tells you, you deserve whats coming to you
...
see you arent showing " facts" mostly just trying to blow smoke up people asses and shill for china
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@Zach0451
"If they did not meet the standards for a citizen's arrest," (they did) "then no citizen's arrest was made, therefore making the interaction an assault.
No it doesnt? how do you figure?no one touched him, and no one held him down, and no one pointed a gun at him until he attacked.. sorry you are wrong here
"It has not been established that he assaulted the man with the shotgun."
The video says otherwise
There are legal grounds for Arbery to have been in fear of his life, making himself entitled to self-defense.
No, you dont engage in " self defense" by attacking a legally armed man...
"Under Georgia law, O.C.G.A. § 16-5-20, a person commits the offense of simple assault when he or she either: (1) Attempts to commit a violent injury to the person of another; or, (2) Commits an act which places another in reasonable apprehension of immediately receiving a violent injury. Further, a person who commits the offense of simple assault shall be guilty of a misdemeanor."
As you can see, this does not require Arbery to have been touched for him to have been assaulted. This is cold, hard fact. You don't have to like it.
where is the" attempt to commit a violent injury" or " immediate receiving of violent injury" here? no one touched him or trained a weapon on him, and they didnt even stop his moment. Aubrey could have continued in literally any other direction than what he did. dart around the truck and assault a man with a shotgun. he deliberately engaged in a situation that put himself in the losing position of self defense...
"You disagreeing with me doesn't make you correct. I am providing you examples that are strictly within the laws of the state of Georgia. You are providing me only with your personal viewpoint, which is irrelevant.
"
You are citing law, and then imposing your opinions into it. but ok its all on video
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@Zach0451
We don't know if they met the standard for citizen's arrest or not."
you look up one law but wont look up this one? why? is this not relevant to the discussion of if the citizens arrest is valid.
"No one touched him, no one held him down"
Thanks for helping to debunk the narrative that it was a citizen's arrest. You don't even realize what you just did.
This debunks your " assault" and how does it " debunk" the citizens arrest? i dont follow that leap. You dont quote any citizens arrest laws, and you assume that lack of contact is proof that a citizens arrest is invalid.
The video doesn't say anything definitive. .......Dumbass.
It shows the jogger attacking a guy with a shotgun, and getting shot. And you are postulating that the jogger gets self defense?
"No, you don't engage in self defense by attacking a legally armed man..."
Interesting framing, but let's take a look at the actual self defense law, shall we?
"A person.......
See the last section here:
"*a person is justified in using force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent death or great bodily injury to himself or herself*"
If Arbery reasonably believed he was at risk of great bodily injury, he would have been within his right to "use force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm". If the white guys did not adequately execute a citizen's arrest, then this would have left that avenue open for Arbery. Some random guys with guns yelling at you, and then chasing you can give him that "reasonable belief". He would be within his right to defend himself from assault, according to the law.
How are you trying to argue that arbery was " threatened" while he was fleeing? no one pointed guns at him and they were on the call with police at the time... Had he not attacked mc whitey and his shotgun, and waited like, 3 minutes, the cops would have arrived... Furthermore, if your objective is to survive an altercation, i fail to see how rushing the guy armed with a short range weapon is better than running in literally any other direction....
As for the assault allegation. See the 2nd part of the law you conveniently ignored:
"An act which places another in *reasonable apprehension of immediately receiving a violent injury*.
Men with a gun yelling at you and jumping out of a truck armed with said gun can meet the standard for Arbery feeling *reasonable apprehension of immediately receiving a violent injury*. He does not need to be touched for this to be assault. The weapon was trained on him, as he was shot. They attempted to impede his movement by trying to apprehend him. And as explained earlier, Arbery could have easily been within his rights to defend himself, and that means possibly trying to disarm the man with the gun. Not very smart imo, but that is a real possibility. You cannot clearly say he deliberately engaged when he is running away and the other men chase after him.
First off, i didnt " ignore it" i asked you to explain how it qualifies in your opinion and you just continued to be a smug twat about it. You conveniently ignore what they were yelling, of the included phrases were " stop" " we just want to talk" and that the police were on their way. At no point prior to arbry charging mc whitey and his shotgun were any weapons trained on him. you can see this in the video. " impede his movement" so instead of him running a different direction he runs TOWARDS the truck? but in this scenario you are calling this self defense.
I am not imposing my opinion on any of this, you have no idea what my opinion actually is. I'm just giving you facts and you'll jump through
you are crafting a scenario that doesnt fit with the video evidence of the incident
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@admontblanc
"you are a loser"
lol sounds like projection to me but please go off champ
"simping for an ideology that got so utterly crushed that merely being associated with it, even in the faintest of ways is a surefire, social downfall"
The irony of this is you think this. You literally prove my point without even realizing it. The ideology wasn't the problem, it was the international finance system, and the global war machine pushing forward in their plans for world domination
"Also, the fact that you're here, on a public forum, and not alone in how you think, should tell you that siding with the natsocs over the commies would have the same result, except it would be some loser commie crying instead of you"
The fact that you think this illustrates to me that you have a propagandized view of history.. but PLEASE keep going off
"probably your equally vile ideas burning down all the work of western cultures in the same exact way"
sounds like more projection but ok
"Because all you want is power, but according with your prophet, failure to manifest the glorious destiny of the Aryan race is proof of them being undeserving, and thus a proclamation of failure."
Literally wanting to exist is a failure? The fact that you think the way you do perfectly illustrates how badly history is told by the winners...
Come back when you achieve something worthwhile of my time, and I may actually take you seriously.
Im still not taking you seriously at all dude, you dont understand anything im talking about and come at me with a massive ego and undeserved arrogance about things you clearly know nothing about..
please keep it up, its fascinating
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Jackson Hughes "how odd you keep such a list."
Not really? they usually brag ala spectre or Ignatiev... the best part is the quote about percentage reprenestation was from jsh virtuall ibrary
"It's funny how you guys have all these cut and past lists ready to go. Banker list. Media List, you name it."
Yeah, its almost like pattern recognition or something, IDK man
"Truth is not important to conspiracy nutters"
Hey you know calling me names and dismissing what i said as conspiracy doesnt work when conspiracies exist right?
remember mkultra, northwoods, and Tuskegee?
"There's probably thousands and thousands of nepotism examples, but the conspiracy nuts cherry-pick out the Goldbergs only."
despite being 2% of the population, they are over represented in positions of power and influence, in media, news, government, and advocacy groups... noticing things makes me the bad guy remember?
"We excel at stuff. But sometimes you guys excel too. And when you do, you are no different."
Its almost like bragging, must be a genetic thing ; )
"Replace Mr Goldberg with Mr Whitely 100% and nothing will change. Because it is not a plot."
LOL buddy, this " plot" you refuse to see, has existed long before either of us were born...
"Do you know how European movies and TV are compared to Hollywood.? What you see in America today, the Europeans were doing back in to 1970's. They even laugh at America for being so conservative and prudish. None of your arguments hold water."
What does this have to do with anything? what are you trying to argue here?
"don't think you realize how democracy works. Overrepresentation is not enough. In a democracy, the majority rules."
weird, i thought this was a republic. but more to your point, i wonder who is behind a vast push for non W immigration into W nations? HMMmmm i notice a lot of names that are easy pickings for early life checks... but you know that, because you can look it up. so you are either denying it, or complicit, or maybe you are just that naïve and are just being honest
"If an Eskimo gets a Congressional seat and there are only 100 Eskimos in the entire US, are you going to argue Eskimos have too much power in the legislative branch?"
No, how silly
"I can assure you, a 93% to 7% is a massive landslide in your favor."
2% of the population, but more than double the percentage in most places of influence? seems sus
"You don't know how the Fed works either."
I sure do, END THE FED
"Thanks for the wars."
You can thank the Js for that sht too bucko... EUROPA THE LAST BATTLE,
"OH AND DON'T FORGET TO UPDATE YOUR LISTS."
I will when people stop wishing W's to be made minorities in their own nations, being made debt slaves to international banker clans who have financed every side of nearly every conflict since Napoleon
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@swampypolitics9574 "I reject identitarianism"
You reject nature, because to you, "identitarianism" and the tribal nature of animals are the same thing, and that humans have somehow surpassed this facet of biology, just because we are self aware...
"Really the only reason the population difference is because of over and illegal immigration."
Legal immigration is almost a million a year.. stop pretending this isnt a massive problem
"Assimilation is what's the biggest problem"
Many groups of people will never assimilate
"There was people from tons of nations that lived the typical American dream"
And for almost the entire existence of this country, it has been Europeans
"But there was a shared moral framework and ideals."
Not really, and only to a point. If you displace, and then remove the founding stock, the entire moral framework is lost
"Notice all the crazy shit is in democrat stronghold cities."
Notice how republican's do nothing about it, and just let everything happen on a slower timeframe...
"I've met people of all races in the rural south and rural areas that are totally different than city people. Because race isnt the factor."
Great, this means nothing in the grand numbers game. and STILL doesnt address the shrinking population of europeans
"All the bullshit comes from these deep left strongholds"
Again, and the right does nothing to stop it. the left vs right is a false dichotomy
"Theres way more to society and humanity and ideology than race"
And yet some racial groups create things, while others destroy. This entire line of thinking completely dismisses the effect genetics has on culture, and ideology.
"Race is the least contributing factor proven by people of the same race and family bloodline being in different areas and making different decision having totally different lives and world views. This is why identitarianism is useless"
This literally is meaningless... "some people do well therefore the entire concept of group differences is irrelevant" is a childish way of thinking. The bell curve exists, outliers exist, exceptions prove a rule, etc etc etc...
TLDR
The rest of the BILLIONS of people on the planet already play by tribal rules. playing against them with individualism is like a twig in a monsoon. A single stick is weak, a fas·ces is strong
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@p.s.shnabel3409 Ah ... anecdotal evidence. Of course that makes you 100% correct. I take back everything I said, anecdotal evidence is the ultimate evidence.
" first hand experience inside the inner workings of "Infosys...the second-largest Indian IT company after Tata Consultancy Services by 2017 revenue and 596th largest public company in the world based on revenue"is just anecdotal" please take your condescending attitude and shove it
Every hospital etc across the nation is staffed with Indians? How, pray how? Currently, not even 500.000 people hold a H1B visa.
Their offices are under contract with infosys for tech support, or their tech support jobs are done by those under contract by infosys. why are you pretending this is a non issue? Walmart employs 1.5 million people... stop pretending your comparison with total jobs is worth my time
As for me comparing all of the workforce, that was in comparison to someone claiming that specifically the H1B visa is responsible for replacing US American workers. Which it is, and I have the numbers, not.
" all jobs across the country is comparable to one specific industry because i say so" you clearly arent paying attention. Call tech support for any number of companies and you will speak to an indian. work for any number of large chain corporations in the united states, at some point the IT is run by indians.
All I am hearing from you is fear mongering, personal experience and insults. I am getting very bored.
my " personal experience" was dealing with the country wide ( we have offices all over the country staffed almost entirely by indians btw) asset shipping and receiving. i saw the addresses and companies infosys worked with, i witnessed firs than their skill in the industry. ask anyone in the US in the tech industry about the indian visa invasion.
Take care and remember to check under your bed for gosh darned furriners before you go to sleep
" stop paying attention to an an ENTIRE INDUSTRY being destroyed and replaced by a country with over a billion people in it.. stop paying attention to replacement of american high wage earning jobs by foreigners because i can make a snide remark about it"
you are either young and naive or really brainwashed
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@p.s.shnabel3409 I know you havent worked with them because you unironically refereed to them as " high skilled" and i worked for Infosys, top tech company that does business with basically every banking institution, mobile carrier, hospital, etc all across the country, staffed almost entirely with indians from india who came over on visas. The entire system is a joke. and miss me with that moving the goalposts BS, you compared the entire workforce of the united states with one type of visa, laughable if i say so myself. but again, its not JUST the H1, there are other visas at play because the entire system runs on cheating the system. there are multiple types of working visas, student visas, and visitor visas, and plenty of fraud. Im not " living in fear" im point out the reality of the destruction of the upper middle class.
" i wont change your mind"
thats because you have no idea what you are talking about
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Jackson Hughes
"Smarter groups do better, it's just the way it is. Has nothing to do with nepotism, that's a cop-out."
LOL listen to this guy " theres no nepotism" dude, in the list i sent there was a guy who just gave his daughter a position almost as high as his. nope no nepotism there lol
"if a certain group is trying to corrupt a society through control of the media, then why is there no difference with Sony Pictures. Universal, Columbia, Prime, Netflix(the people that gave us Cuties)? You are not explaining this. "
What is there to explain dude? do some early life checks on those involved. surprise yourself, it surprised me at first, now i see it before i even look
"These are huge studios that produce a lot of content."
aaaaand theres still tons of influence from a certain tribe, or friends of the tribe... you can keep denying it, but you can look it all up yourself.. " overrepresentation isnt real" sure buddy, sure...
"If there was a difference, I would consider your point. I would say, why does one group produce good films and the other filth. But they are not different, you are just scapegoating a certain group and ignoring the sins of your own."
Its like you arent even trying to make an argument. why would there be a difference? does a group with an agenda mean nothing else can exist at the same time? liek what are you even tryign to argue dude? whatever it is, it isnt doing very well
"I don't go around saying Mr Whitely is doing this or that. I am just pointing our your hypocrisy.
"Don't point the finger at us, when you do the same."
and there it is
"Congress is about 95% gentile." "there is no over representation
Although Js make up 2 percent of the U.S. population, nearly 7 percent of the new Congress is Jish, with 37 Jews among the total of 535 lawmakers. In the Senate, the 9 Jsh members comprise 9 percent of that body; 28 Js comprise 5 percent of the House. The record was the 1993 Congress, which included 51 Js — nearly 10 percent of the total.
"All wars are banker wars"
yeah,
Top Banks in America
Federal Reserve Jerome Powell
Bro are you even trying?
16th Chair of the Federal Reserve
Jerome Powell
Preceded by Janet Yellen
"Yellen was born on August 13, 1946,[3] to a family of Polish Jewish[4] ancestry in the Bay Ridge neighborhood of New York City's Brooklyn borough,[5] where she also grew up.
Chase Jamie Dimon
well chase bank just rolls right back up to the Rockefellers
Bank of America Brain Moynihan
Citigroup John Dugan
WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN UP TO MR. WHITELY?
honestly bud, your entire argument hinging on " here, see? heres important people who arent Jish" and it kinda falls apart when you look at percentages, and how things actually work.. but i think you already know that
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@Andy B Oh boy i like explaining this one
"what does race have to do with it? "
demographics are destiny
Especially if you define race as someone's skin color,
We arent, its j just a marker for difference that is easily visible to differentiate between groups
that's a social science talk and not at all in line with genetic knowledge.
Are you denying the existence of different groups of humans being genetically different? sounds pretty anti science
By looking at the data it's the culture that makes the difference,
Hmm, and where does that culture come from? AH the people that make up that specific location... so to speak if you change the people you change the culture?
any time you have ghetto culture where most kids grow up with a poor single parent, combined with low quality education, you'll get a larger percentage of deviants.
So look at which groups of people who are high single parent and you will see a trend. But then again we arent even allowed to talk about IQ...
"Add a drug war and a criminal system that does not rehabilitate criminals into productive people and it's a no brainer."
Right, so dont break the law and dont sell drugs? i mean im not disagreeing with you in the sense that the drug war is a failure and there are far too many laws... but you can go pretty far without going to jail if you dont act like an idiot///
"And yes, there are places with 100% white population where that happens, the world does not end where US borders do."
What? the US was a 95+% white country (IE of closely related european stock)since its inception up until 1965.
"The US media has brainwashed people into dividing themselves by skin color, the past government policies"
No, the US media has been brainwashing people into thinking that we can all get along and that everyone is the same, so they can get public support for flooding the country with cheap labor and infinite sources of internal conflict to further grow their power control and strength of enforcement
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@ubuntuposix
"The right "plays this clip" from the moment when the kid is running, falling, and shooting those which attack him.
"
Uh thanks for your BS framing, but it isnt " the right" showing " clips" theres multiple videos of multiple angles showing this. BTW when he was on the ground in the middle of the street? was the second encounter... but you would know that if you watched literally anyone who showed the full video
BUT
the people are saying "he shot someone (of us)", "he's the shooter".
So people inciting a mob is a good thing?
-this makes you want to stop him.
no
-you can see the police up the street ahead, so it would be dumb to shoot him. (and they didn't shoot at him)
but prior to that:
- he was running away because he shot someone (the guy throwing the plastic bag at him)
plastic bag... go ahead and throw an empty plastic bag and see how far it goes? there was something in it... a brick? a bottle of cement? a glass bottle? who knows, maybe dont throw things at people who are armed, and if you DO throw something at them in an aggressive manner, defiantly dont try and take their gun...
- prior to that you can see him pissing people off (provoking them)
where?
-even prior to that he wasn't from the state (he got there, him being an anti BLM, - he had a blue lives matter insignia)
So supporting police is a bad thing? so being against a marxist organisation that goes around rioting looting and burning cities down is a bad thing? cmon man
-even prior to that, he wasn't born long enough to carry a gun and be a wannabe police-officer.
false, open carry long rifles 16+ in the state.stop listening to BS
(putting aside his illegal presence there after curfew, cause everyone was violating it)
Yeah lets ignore that he had permission from a business owner to stand guard at their business because he didnt want it burned down? you know, by the mob of people who attacked kyle? like the dumpster they set on fire? like the car windows they smashed?
Can you see his fault in any of this?
No not at all
Imagine i'm going to a Trump rally, with a gun, and start burning an american flag.
-I'll piss people off, some may want to hit me,
-i shoot him, then run away, fall, shoot those who come after me
Is all that a simple case of "self defense" to you?
yes, it is self defense... if someone tries disarm you and attack you you can shoot them. why is this a hard concept for you? why do you have to keep muddying the waters?
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@arturovasquez5510
people facilitate immigration to make money out of it not to destroy the nation,
Ask soros how destroying a nation can be profitable and you can understand the migration is going to do long lasting damage
immigration is and always has been a net positive to the economy,
No, its been a net positive for large corporations, multinationals, banks, and governments.... this is a country, not an economic zone, fuck the GDP and fuck your " net positive for the economy" talking point bullshit
no economic theory has disputed that fact, and I’m an economics major so before you spew bullshit take that into consideration.
I dont care about the GDP of the nation when it treats its citizens like easily replaceable worker units for the almighty dollar.
If you want to shoot immigrant you have to also agree with violating human rights.
How is self defense violating human rights? I take an invasion of my home to be an actionable offense with intent. Is the robber who is breaking into someones house, who is then shot dead, is that a violation of human rights? no its not
The only moral theory that could support the violation of human rights is either moral nihilism or utilitarianism, I doubt you are a moral nihilist because you wouldn’t care whether there is immigration or not, so I will assume you are a utilitarian, which means that you believe the end justifies the means,
What is this bullshit? "ends justify the means" how is refusing to let your nation become overrun by foreigners and " ends justify the means" position?
but I already told you that immigration is a net positive to the economy, even ilegal immigration, the studies show that illegal immigrants commit less crime than the native born citizen, so shooting immigrants would hurt the economy and be immoral
I dont give a shit.... Stagnant wages from a never ending supply of low skill workers, reaching into medium skill as well as importing high skill workers, rising costs of healthcare because of the many many illegals who use services and then they need to be paid for. " immigrants commit less crime" is a bullshit talking point almost as bad as " illegals pay taxes". Illegal entry is a crime, stealing SS numbers for work is a crime...
Defending the nation of my ancestors is not immoral
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@GodOfOrphans
"There are too many self hating Ws for you to have the numbers needed to win if you organize along ethnic lines"
uh no, we would be fine thanks, just need to get the government to stop fcking everything up
If there's any irony to be found it's in the fact that we've reached that point at all not in my statement itself, but of course you're a nuance blind imbecile, that's why I have to restate things like this repeatedly because you're clearly a special needs adult."
So doubling down on adhoms now? cmon man im at least trying in good faith here....
"Trump did one thing better than anyone who came before and that's he blew the lid off of just how far gone and entrenched everything is, how many people would recognize the uniparty as a thing if it weren't for him, how many more people would still blindly follow the media if they didn't collectively lose their minds over him"
Lose their minds? it was a scripted reality show. Everyone involved made out like bandits...
and now those same people are qanon followers, and think god emperor is going to save them. a false empty hope given to them by a democrat who switched D to R and ran on the blandest, milquetoast of rightward opinions, adn did nothing for W people, and everything to show how wonderful he was to non whites... this did nothing, and was pressure relief valve for the growing discontent. he was never meant to do anything, and the people who are just now finding out about the uniparty are so low IQ and indoctrinated it doesnt matter... anyone who hasnt figure out the uniparty and the globalists schemes in 2020 has CLEARLY done ZERO work at understanding the cause of events that are leading us to our inevitable conclusion of repeating history very violently . Maybe it can be avoided, but not if people keep pretending its ok, and that itll work out without a major conflict of some kind...
"The fact that people are discussing your point of view with any degree of openness today is directly due to how much Trump shattered the mask"
absolutly laughable. he did a great job though, look how much influence he has over your opinions on the matter. The people you talk about are the midnless followers. the NPCs of the horde
"made the masses question things again"
Epstiens "suicide" did more do make people question things than ANYTHING trump did... at all..
"even those among us who hate him have been red pilled by how crazy the establishment went over him, pulling out all the stops up to and cheating to try and get rid of him and they're still scared shitless of him"
you clearly dont grasp anything in the political sphere do you? the people who dont like trump dont care about the truth, they care bout them being right or their team winning. If these people couldnt see how full of sht the media was in the 80s and 90s wtf is them being closer to figuring it out matter if they have no ability to think critically about information given to them, because if you could do that, you would have nothing to " praise" trump over..
"you can call him many unkind things and be right but controlled opposition is not one of them.
Yeah sure buddy, whatever you say. just remember no one went to jail, he filled his picks with swamp creatures, and kissed the wall...
He is controlled opposition of the highest order
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@GodOfOrphans
"We're not trying to convince the cultists we're trying to convince the unenlightened masses,"
and then the next breath
" but the audience on the other hand might stumble onto it and see the leftist making an ass of themselves and be convinced"
and yet we have people like vaush, and the rest of breadtube
Spoiler, a vast majority of the human population are at NPC levels of awareness. and you are wasting your time with them
" but if they have some kind of Pavlovian trigger they're gonna immediately tune out whoever activated it"
yes, and we cant talk about the subject that is verboten because thats the important topic to discuss. again, ignoring the elephant in the room. pretending that this is just a cult, and the end result of a massive conspiracy unfolding since the beginning of world war 1, is just not going to matter
"will basically need to be exterminated eventually, but we can't do that if the masses still don't recognize them as an evil threat! "
you cant assess a threat if you cant talk about certain topics with the general masses. you will spend years and years trying desperately in vain to convince people, while those in power continue to march forward into the mayocide
"you keep strawmanning me into positions I don't actually hold because you're that desperate for a fight I guess"
its not strawmanning, its technically argumentum ad absurdum, but its to prove a point that you cant see, and continue to think im just being argumentative. Im not trying to " argue" im just trying to articulate that your mode of operation is just like the last few decades of " conservatism" which conserve nothing but create act like a hand brake half assedly engaged while leftism continues leftward...
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Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That any Alien being a free white person, who shall have resided within the limits and under the jurisdiction of the United States for the term of two years, may be admitted to become a citizen thereof on application to any common law Court of record in any one of the States wherein he shall have resided for the term of one year at least, and making proof to the satisfaction of such Court that he is a person of good character, and taking the oath or affirmation prescribed by law to support the Constitution of the United States, which Oath or Affirmation such Court shall administer, and the Clerk of such Court shall record such Application, and the proceedings thereon; and thereupon such person shall be considered as a Citizen of the United States. And the children of such person so naturalized, dwelling within the United States, being under the age of twenty one years at the time of such naturalization, shall also be considered as citizens of the United States. And the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond Sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born Citizens: Provided, that the right of citizenship shall not descend to persons whose fathers have never been resident in the United States
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@skitidet4302
"No, that solves nothing, only idiotic commies think that such a system could work."
Lol ok im with you so far
"The way you stop this process is by having powerful institutions like the state"
Aaaand you lost me. the state having power is why we are here. with greater government power comes greater influence.
"If the state, the church or the king is smart and moral it/he will see what is going on and start a purge/inquisition before the merchant class accumulates too much power and influence."
Weird, if only someone tried to do that in the past... HHMMMMM Maybe uncle A was on to something
It's the only way to keep it in check, this is why the Dutch and the British has so much blame for the situation we are in now. They allowed this boil to fester and they served as a bridgehead from which financial power and the liberal logic that goes with it, could corrupt the rest of the world.
Yeahhh but they werent dutch or british, they were a DIFFERENT group of people
"Right, but MY point is they only GOT that rich by BEING corrupt... the system that takes place in is irrelevant when the ones making the rules are the ones benefitting from them."
No, the system does matter. Merchant-corruption does not pay nearly as much in pre-capitalistic systems since the Merchant class will get mercilessly purged if they get too powerful and start threatening the other powers in a healthy system.
What the hell is this even supposed to mean? What healthy system? the one where the same corruption is in the very state, church or kings court?
"Capitalism has everything to do with this, this current system was born of capitalism and capitalism is it's driving force."
So what the hell is capitalism? did capitalism make capitalism? or is capitalism not the system we operate under? which is it?
Remove capitalism and it dies, it's the lifeblood of the current order.
How?
Other systems could never produce an abomination like this because they aren't so insidious.
soooo was weimar germany capitlaism? was the end days of rome capitalism?
"Yeah but YOU attribute that to capitalism, and still existed 50 years ago, while Im trying to articulate that the system has nothing to do with it, the moral corruption comes from this liberal lefty live and let live garbage. you think capitalism is what manipulates social constructs and group think? no, thats the media and Hollywood, i wonder which group of people are over represented in those..."
Capitalism still existed 50 years ago, true, but capitalism dosen't just flip a switch and change everything.
no, its just the idea that you should be rewarded for your labor, and if you can offer a service or product to people freely able to choose products or services to buy.
"It works by being insidious and subtly doing things behind the scenes over time, it has to be like this because the whole system is built on an illusion of freedom."
You keep talking about things that have nothing to do with capitalism, you keep mentioning subversion and insidious tactics, but it isnt the SYSTEM that does this, it is a certain group
If they destroy the illusion they risk losing everything so ofc they would not dare pushing immoral stuff like that until they have sufficiently undermined the morality of their subjects.
this has nothing to do with capitalism and has everything to do with the corruption of culture using media... who owns the media?
Who do you think fund lefty media and Hollywood? Who do you think fund the democratic party? Let me tell you. It's billionaires that run multinational corporations and are part of the small kabal that run this world.
Its like you are so close yet so far. Yes this is a cabal, yes they run international finance, yes they run the world. no this has nothing to do with capitalism
The whole left vs right system is just a scam, both parties are controlled. Politics in a democracy is at best an internal power-game played among the elite, but most of the time it looks like it's just kabuki theater.
riiiight and your solution is more government control/power?
"so religion aside, you seem to miss the part where history IS cyclical, and there is a group of people who are manipulating that. and it has nothing to do with " capitalism""
I fail to understand what you are getting at. Please clarify.
Look we already had someone who tried to kill the international finance system, he was turned into the embodiment of evil, and destroyed nationalism and white identity forever
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Jackson Hughes
"In addition to the positive Jewish role models leading the way to a better future I listed above"
LOL ben " i dont care about the browning of america" shapiro, and prager U are your examples? lol I went ahead and wrote an update for one of your lists.
Open Borders:
Biden
All the Jews Biden has tapped for top roles in his new administration
Times of isreal
Immigration Act of 2007
Immigration Act of 1986
neither of those really matter much considering the act of 1965 i mentioned earlier, more like pouring gas on a fire someone else lit... ALSO, , your entire rebuttal is " here are people not in the tribe doing things you claim tribe do" right, i didnt say they were the only ones doin git. just that they had an over representation of it... its like you are willfully deceitful... interesting tactic
"Only the Trump Administration worked for Border Control. And who was in charge?
Stephen Miller Close border, eliminate federal funds to Sanctuary cities, built wall, stop travel from countries with terror activities."
and trump kissed the wall, and did nothing to stop election nonsense... he is not on my side, he is just controlled opposition
"No wonder you bring up a nobody like Spectre. You have nothing. She is obscure and only talked about multiculturalism. And she didn't mean W, she was referring to Mr Abul. "
nonsense
"See what happens when you live in conspiracy world? You stop caring about the facts"
you really are a joke my dude
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Jackson Hughes
"If it's a matter of overrepresentation than do you we need Affirmative Action for Mr Whitely?"
Yeah, or we could talk about the nepotism and corruption that comes from it.... oh never mind, thats a conspiracy... oh wait, remember how conspiracy is noun, plural con·spir·a·cies.
the act of conspiring.
an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons; plot.
therefore, if a system exists to nepotistically raise up some people over others, would mean that in it self is a conspiracy i guess that means calling something a conspiracy is pretty much not a way to dismiss something...
"It wasn't a matter of overrepresentation, you and others of your ilk think this is a planned plot, a conspiracy by a certain group."
It literally is. they promote themselves, enact movements, and legislation that benefits them and their allies (spoilers, non Js are in on it too), and they do it in front of our faces constantly...
"I gave more than enough examples to show that no matter the group, the outcome is the same."
What? you did no such thing.
"Take CNN, it was started by Ted Turner, and it had different owners over the years, but it was always a mouthpiece for the liberals. So all the evidence shows there is no plot by one group."
yeah ok buddy, its just all the major media companies, most of hollywood, and a large portion of the us government
"Yes, I proved you wrong and you can't even say. Yes, I was wrong. That's a reflection on your character."
Hello kettle, im pot
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@whatdafarkenhell7110
"Look, if you think everyone is part of the NWO you are the fool that does not have a brain cell to use."
Thanks, thats not what i said, neat strawman
"There is a uniparty, Trump was a populist who defeated the uniparty and improved the GOP doing so, bringing in new people that stood and stand for the US instead of big multinational businesses."
He literally was a relief valve for the growing discontent in the nation... no wall, no one went to jail, immigration never stopped.. .he hardly got anything done. He played his role
"Sorry that you believe the existance of one thing means every little stupid thing that rolls around lonely in your head is true as well."
Strawman
"The fact that you can't even string together more than a few words or even answer a simple question is all the proof we need that you are the child that needs to sit down and let the adults talk."
ADhom
"Finally where did I use the word "proofs", you were stupid enough to quote a single word and it was not one I ever use (because it is badly spelt to start with) "
you know those are indicative of air quotes and your "gotcha" is just blowing up in your face
"You know what, if your one word quote is incorrect, that is all the evidence required to convince a moderately intelligent human that they are talking to a peron with the intelligence of a door knob."
ADhom
so do we have to wait for you to grow up to join the conversation:?
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@StofStuiver what? originally the US was 99% white as they were all from European origins...
You dont seem to understand.... if there are more people who take more than they pay into the system, it collapses... when you need to take more and more and more from those who can produce, they will be able to get less and less... i lose a third of my income every week.. i see none of it. i also pay taxes on the fuel i spend to go to work, i pay taxes on the food i eat to live, i pay taxes on the water i drink and bathe in, i pay taxes on the car i drive to work as well as taxes on all the fees, insurance, and taxes thereof that the state demands i pay. i pay taxes on the home i live in, i pay taxes on the land its on, i pay taxes on the utility bills, i even pay taxes when i die...
What do i get out of it?
endless foreign wars
endless immigration
stagnant and lowering wages
aotumation
poor roads
poor education
poor infrastructure
more and more welfare...
I dont want to pay more and i dont want more programs.... if they cant make it work after taking a third of most peoples income ( those who actually make enough to be taxes that is) then i dont want it...
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@danishdude6750
How is more government going to solve the problem of government not doing their jobs?
I'm not asking for more government. But why do you think less government will do the job?
Less overhead costing taxpayers
fewer pensions
fewer government expenditures
fewer regulatory bodies
less regulation
fewer licenses and prerequisites
etc etc
How is more government going to stop companies from lobbying politicians for favorable legislation?
How is less government going to thwart big businesses from destroying competition from small companies?
How does walmart and amazon get to where they are without government subsides or tax deals? its a shame all our manufacturing went overseas so theres literally zero competition inside the US
No one who makes that argument understands what they are talking about in the first place.
Is that a statement of fact, just an opinion, or an ad hominem? It is not an argument anyway.
No, you were asking if that was an argument i would make, i simply stated no one making that argument has a solid grasp on the material
How is more government going to stop corperations from lobbying?
How is less government going to stop corporations from taking business from small companies?
How is a large corporation going to " take" small ones? in what legal way would they be able to take something that is not theirs and it not be theft? Not like you are actually even answering my questions... How is more government going to stop them? why hasnt anything been done to stop them? oh they have incestuous power with lobby groups and politicians
How is more legislation and regulation going to help small business startups?
That very much depends on what the regulations are about. Who will protect small businesses from monopolies?
Why does a single owner car salesman need protection from cars.com or carmax? why do i need thousands of dollars of licensing and regulatory guidelines to sell used cars? not ecen gonna start with the taxes and fees of running a small business
How is more barriers to entry going to stop the monopolistic nature of these cooperation?
It depends on what those barriers are Are they set by the government or big business?
it doesnt matter when they are one in the same. When the big guys team up with the state to out compete the little guy. Why are you answering questions with more questions?
You only get monopolies like this because of government intervention on the behest of these same companies..
No, not at all. Monopolies can certainly come into place by market forces alone. Why do you think you have anti-trust laws? To protect competition from small businesses?
Weird how we havent used those anti trust laws on google amazon and walmart? considering walmart employees almost as many people as the government, i think there is a problem here, almost like gov and the business class team up to screw the little guy and skate on taxes...
Your solution is more government, more laws, more legislation... (IE more government control)
My solution is not more government. It is a more effective government working to help the people (not the corporations) who elected them. That is protecting individuals from big organizations, governmental and private.
so, you want more laws and regulations to " work to help the people who elect them" is that not more government?
Licensing and taxes cripple small business but large ones have no problems as they can absorb the costs, so any legislation will barely affect them but will cripple others who compete
Small businesses won't stand a goddamn chance against big corporations if you have a weak government.
`
They dont stand a chance RIGHT NOW!... wtf man, how is arguing for less government going to make it worse for small buisnesses? maybe if the government didnt micromanage every single thing in existence, it wouldnt be so hard...
You sound like you support corporate America. Do you?
Sounds like you dont understand whats actually going on, do you?
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@nambepambe3221
My point is that you've fallen for the misdirection that immigrants are somehow to blame for the actions of a government in which they have not even the illusion of representation because of your own partisan indoctrination.
No the governments using immigration as a weapon and for profit... so blaming immigrants is blaming a symptom of the disease of corrupt government. muh partisan politics
Personally, I think the timeframe for a peaceful solution to the problems currently facing the US has passed, but what I'm arguing against isn't the legitimacy of the government it's that demographic shifts are responsible for the problems facing the healthcare system.
Government creates problem, and solves it by making it worse for their own benefit. the problems are intertwined, pretending they are seperate problems misses the point
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4442684/
"Among Black individuals, immigrants, most of whom emigrate from higher-prevalence regions in sub-Saharan Africa and the Caribbean, tend to be diagnosed with more advanced infection than native born individuals, suggesting a long lag time between initial infection and diagnosis"
"Though little attention has been focused on HIV in non-U.S. born Black individuals, this subpopulation has a higher rate of HIV infection than native born Blacks (81.4 vs. 78.9 per 100,000)"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3672242/
"An estimated 34 million people worldwide were living with HIV at the end of 2010 [1]. Almost 70 % (23 million) reside in sub-Saharan Africa, where only 10 % of the world’s population lives "
"Overall, Blacks in the US accounted for 51 % of new HIV diagnoses in 2006, while making up only 12 % of the population"
Not even sure what those links are here for
Shows that legal immigrants, either resident or via visa are less likely to go untested than illegal immigrants or refugees, and less likely to not adhere to treatment despite having a higher infection risk than the general population, probably a consequence of higher levels of education, socioeconomic status and first-hand experience that AIDS isn't actually a good thing unlike San Franciscan bugchasers.
It shows that immigrants are more likely to be already infected because they dont test for them regularly? im not sure where you were going with this line of inquiry
It's a good thing because it really doesn't affect Professor Hughes or Doctor Smith's wages or workload if Doctor Motumbo from Nigeria comes to work in the US when there's already more demand for providers than can reasonably be met from the native population, especially when the former two have access to expedited emigration to most of the world if they choose to leave.
"replacing natives with foreigners is fine because its profitable.
And i guess brain draining poor shithole countries is a great way to keep them poor shithole countries, therefore leading to an endless supply of laborers, no matter what the field. and rewarding people who abandon their people is so virtuous when the people taking advantage of the system here werent here to help build it, and the descendants of those who built it are being replaced and you seem to think thats fine
To be blunt, not everyone is capable of intellectual work.
Right, and colleges arent a good indicator of intellectual work. It is only an indicator that they follow instructions and paid money...
No skilled laborer is being replaced,
Yes they are, what are you talking about? Have you bothered to look at tech? good thing india has millions and millions of people for an endless supply of tech workers to further shit up the industry in the country( worked at infosys for 3 years)
positions that are needed but are currently empty are being filled. On the other hand, if you bring over 500,000 people from El Salvador to do menial labor for subminimum wage with no SSID you're undercutting an entire economic class that doesn't really have anywhere else to go.
And pouring in hundreds of thousands of " degree holders" into the country every year does what to the people here nativly. You are enabling a globalist market set to force everyone on the planet to compete at the same time for the small number of jobs in developed countries.....
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@nambepambe3221
it's actually African immigrants.
Nice, i like how you cited that totally believable line.. but yeah i totally believe you
I realize you're probably unaware of what's going on in the skilled labor market, but people aren't really suffering when you bring in more Ph. Ds to meet demand, especially when they're also paying income tax towards social services that they don't qualify to receive.
So replacing the workforce with foreigners is a good thing because reasons? or are you saying there arent thousands of natives trying to get those same degrees? ALSO not even counting the credibility of institutions all over the world, ALSO not counting the rampant cheating in universities in china and india... no no im sure they are all fuckin geniuses
So an industry should care about a comparatively minor deficit while they're generating unprecedented profit because it hurts your feelings?
Replacing your workforce with foreigners who will then take up space and grow in communities further displacing natives? i dont think this is a feeling thing and more of a being replaced in your own land kinda thing goin on here...
Trump hasn't changed anything, the GoP doesn't want anything to change. It's not about Red or Blue it's about a class of people who have cemented themselves in perpetual positions of power with a common interest in distracting the plebs with bread and circuses.
Riiiight, and what is your point here? that i should just shut up and let it keep happening?
Every time someone in power has seemed to be genuinely interested in changing things since the JFK years, a scandal mysteriously arises. Watergate. The Iranian hostage crisis. The Ron Paul letters. On the other hand, whenever something crazy seems to be happening that could expose something much bigger, it gets cut of
You mean like how the world is run by disgusting people who lie cheat steal, use blackmail, and child trafficking? and im supposed to listen to global entities telling me that replacing my countrymen with foreigners is a good thing?
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@nambepambe3221
Immigration procedures exist specifically so that legal immigrants will be a net benefit to the country they are immigrating to. As an experiment, why don't you take a wild guess as to which group is more likely to follow guidelines for protection against HIV transmission and remain compliant with medication: African immigrants or native-born citizens?
Adding to the GDP doesnt mean it benefits the natives. Its just more competition in the job market and resources like land and services.
" more likely to follow guidelines for protection against HIV transmission and remain compliant with medication: African immigrants or native-born citizens?"
Native born citizens
As for illegal immigrants, if they weren't generating profit, no one would be buttering hands in congress to keep them here. It fucks over the unskilled labor market due to increased supply and lower wages, but that's still a net profit if you're looking at GDP versus uncompensated expenses. For better or worse, GDP is the opioid of neolibs/cons and that's not about to change, and frankly 800M/yr is a drop in the bucket when you're an industry generating over 40B a quarter.
"i dont care about GDP, its my home country, not a fucking shopping mall with easily replaceable consumer units... but thats how my government sees me..
If you think California is a model for what happens in the rest of the US you haven't seen the vast majority of the US; the only state that can even be fairly compared is Massachusetts but even they're managed competently in comparison to big tech/hollywood and their serfs.
"because its not as bad as cali it woundlt happen elsewhere" THat is literally my point, the liberal leftie blueish states always tow the party lines, so eventually it will spread, not to mention the number of people leaving cali...
Destroying a country for GDP doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies
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@nambepambe3221
It's really not my problem if...
thats nice
Less than 1% of public health costs are claimed by illegal immigrants despite being around 2% of the general population. Somewhere between 300 and 400M is paid out of pocket, so the net deficit is actually fairly small.
citation?
they use more than they pay
https://www.fairus.org/issue/publications-resources/fiscal-burden-illegal-immigration-united-states-taxpayers
"Total Federal Medical Expenditures
Uncompensated Hospital Expenditure $8,200,000,000
Medicaid Births
$1,242,990,372
Medicaid Fraud
$3,458,475,000
Medicaid for U.S.-born Kids of Illegal Aliens $4,234,129,200
Total $17,135,594,572"
I never stated that there aren't genetic differences between racial groups, just pointed out that genetic diseases aren't specifically a nonwhite problem which seems to be your assumption.
I never said it was a non white problem, i said that more non whites means more medical issues that dont normally or specifically affect whites....
https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/primer/inheritance/ethnicgroup
" you just dont like brown people"
im glad thats how you internalized what i said...
As for Wilbur, it's almost like a group of people who historically profited off of international trade and usury happen to be very good at profiting off of international trade and usury.
Oy vey!
California is the largest subnational economy in the entire world. You are not paying your taxes to California unless you live there. Their healthcare problems can be blamed almost entirely on Kaiser Permanente, libertine brain drain and the economic interests of Silicon Valley and the entertainment industry. Pedro and Jose aren't the ones lobbying at the state legislature, in case you haven't noticed.
i mean its not like you are gonna pretend that california even listens to its voters...
prop 187 is a perfect example. besides, pedro and jose get to drop their kids off at public schools, and get o be citizens, and we arent even talking about the amounts of other welfare they get... but yeah, guess there cant be more than one problem can there?
Despite your fantasies of democratic representation and sportsball conditioning, the average voter does not affect policy whether they vote for someone with a D or an R next to their name. You might want to check out the Gilens and Page paper if you actually believe minorities are somehow the driving force behind consolidation.
i didnt even suggest that, its like you have this tunnel vision where complex problems cant have multiple problem areas? I guess if spending a few billion a year on people who dont even have any right to be here ( illegals, indians, chinese, fucking somalians) is no big deal because the out of control government doesnt care about the people they were elected by, so they can just replace them, because nothing says america like turning citizens into replaceable labor units and anyone who speaks out against this is a racist because they hate brown people... import the third world. become the third world
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@nambepambe3221
There is literally nothing wrong with run-on sentences.
Yes there is, its difficult to read, and hard to keep thoughts orderly and self contained.
Illegal immigration has very little to do with any non-ER care since they pay for primary care in cash and had literally nothing to do with the consolidation of the American Healthcare system, which is by far the largest source for the increased price of healthcare in the United States.
"they pay in cash" except when they dont...
Your assumption that nonwhite genetic conditions are somehow more significant than white genetic problems is why I assume you dislike brown people, I never implied you dislike brown people for being brown.
Because you project your BS onto me while ignoring the differences genetically between groups of people, and some groups have higher risk for costly medical expenditures... Dont blame me, blame nature.
The other reasons you may or may not dislike brown people aren't really relevant to the discussion.
It literally has nothing to do with them being brown, and everything to do with them being culturally, genetically, socially and intellectually different...
If you want to blame someone specific as opposed to the postwar economic vacuum, corporate lobbying and rampant corruption in the federal government, try Wilbur J. Cohen.
Cool, of course its a democratic jewish man behind the curtain... oy vey once again a coincidence
California is effectively a different healthcare system than the entire rest of the US and I would advise you to leave if you are unfortunate enough to live there.
And its effectively an illegal settlement that the tax payer subsidies...
" demographic shifts have little to no effect on healthcare"
HAHAHAHahahahaah its still funny
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@jlogan2228 or better yet, you are doing a job, end up taking on other roles above your pay and skill grade, and when you demand a promotion, its denied because you dont have a magic piece of paper, so they hire some new guy with a magic paper, and lo and behold, he is an idiot who cant work in the real world... and they pay them almost the same as they pay the non degree guy...
or better yet, from personal experience working at Infosys, your new manager is an H1b visa worker with whatever degrees he has, and he doesnt know simple windows keyboard shortcuts, and cant manage to change a battery in a macbook, but hes making 80k a year because.... reasons?
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@iambob6590
"They worship the State, how can they be Nationalists?"" Is that a fair translation of what you mean?
Sorta
"If you hadn't come at me like a bull at a gate in the first place this whole interaction would have easier."
yeah lets pretend you dont have a massive attitude problem
"For Context: I would say that i'm a "Cultural Nationalist" in regards to Nationalism. I'm saying this so you don't think i'm automatically against Nationalism"
wtf is " cultural nationalism"
"Everything Within the State, Nothing Against the State, Nothing Outside the State" - Benito Mussolini
Both of these men were devout Marxist Socialists, as were other early Fascists, they were "trained Marxists".
Um no, im not seeing the connection to marxism
"Technically, this is where it might be safe to say they were no longer Marxist Socialists, but they were still Socialists, and they still think like Marxists in how they attain power so they can enact their vision."
yeah i disagree, you have shown me nothing to illustrate that
"So they found a different kind of 'people' group to use. "The Nation" instead of "The Proletariat", both are held as some sort of mythic strength."
So i guess defining these terms would be meaningless to you?
"It's still twisted just like Socialist end up twisting everything."
the only twisting here is you...
The German lot come from the same place too, with their own mythic version of "The Nation"
Yeah i dont think it was a german version of nation my guy
"c. 1300, nacioun, "a race of people, large group of people with common ancestry and language," from Old French nacion "birth, rank; descendants, relatives; country, homeland" (12c.) and directly from Latin nationem (nominative natio) "birth, origin; breed, stock, kind, species; race of people, tribe," literally "that which has been born," from natus, past participle of nasci "be born" (Old Latin gnasci), from PIE root *gene- "give birth, beget," with derivatives referring to procreation and familial and tribal groups.
The word is used in English in a broad sense, "a race of people an aggregation of persons of the same ethnic family and speaking the same language," and also in the narrower sense, "a political society composed of a government and subjects or citizens and constituting a political unit; an organized community inhabiting a defined territory within which its sovereignty is exercised."
"In Middle English it is not easy to distinguish them, but the "political society" sense emerged by 16c., perhaps late 14c. and it has gradually predominated. The older sense is preserved in the application of nation to the native North American peoples (1640s). Nation-building "creation of a new nation" is attested by 1907 (implied in nation-builder). Nation-state "sovereign country the inhabitants of which are united by language, culture, and common descent" is from 1918."
So marxists divide classes in society, while fashists or nationionalists dont, and unite the people of the nation as a whole instead of a nation of oppressor oppressed classes. and you tell me they are the same
"BLM, is part of just another twisted version of the same bloody thing all over again."
No i dont think so...
"Their "Nation" is some weird mythic history of Africa (we wuz kangs sort of stuff), then you throw in the "The huwite man is oppressing you" stuff too.
It's really similar to what happened in Zimbabwe with Mugabe, a Socialist who used "The huwite man" as an enemy too. Also similar to South Africa."
Same shit, different bucket.
LOL yeah TOTALLY the same thing dude...
"Are they Socialists? Yes
Are they Nationalists Yes, in the same twisted way that Socialists have done it ALL over the world. The CCP is another example of this."
Yeah i disagree with your assumption that marxists are nationalists
InSoc vs NatSoc
Fuck em all.
Lesson over, good night.
your lesson scks and you are an arrogant dche
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@TheHammerofDissidence " it's about exercising sovereignty over your own body"
so only the mothers body matters not the unborn childs body?
"It's the same reason why vaccine mandates should be opposed"
so the gov forcing you to have a shot is the same as you choosing to delete an infant? im not seeing the correlation here.....
"We can argue all day and night about what constitutes murder regarding abortion"
not really, a life is a life, you can pretend otherwise
"but allowing the state to have any power over your body is idiotic"
how the fck is the state saying " you cant delete people" rights over bodily autonomy whilst at the same time pretending the unborn has no bodily autonomy?
"So instead of codifing your morality, maybe conservatives should try changing the culture so that people voluntarily choose to not get abortions."
you mean like promoting self responsibility, telling woman to not ride the cck carousel through their 20's and that they shouldnt have "relations"if they arent ready for children? kinda hard to do that when you have a " get out of responsibility free" card
"But we all know conservatives can't conservative anything because they do stupid shit like moral policing, just like the progressive left."
yeah its almost like the fuddys from the 90s were fcking right about literally everything they complained about... but yeah, they just are like the left
you do know that the financial institutions, media conglomerates , Hollywood, major industry, tech, and the courts as well as all of academia is filled to the brim with leftism right?
you grasp what the slippery slope was right?
but you are right., "conservatives" have conserved nothing
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@viysnjor4811
"More Europeans were EXCLUDED by that definition of "white" than were INCLUDED"
Right, because it was originally a white european nation, ( which means it WAS an close to homogenous , even with your semantics arguments) and now more groups of similar descent are considered " white" but this doesnt change the fact that the nation was created and intended to be " white"
" Irish, Catholic Scots, Italians, Spanish, Portuguese, Russians, Greeks, Poles and on and on"
And of these groups, who would be more " white" than previously, are ALL MINORITIES and are ALL being made " minorities" even in their homelands, INCLUDING the us...
please, continue arguing semantics
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Last one i promise
118 U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Administration for Children and Families, “Fiscal Year
2016 Federal Child Care and Related Appropriations,” January 4, 2016, https://www.acf.hhs.gov/occ/
resource/fscal-year-2016-federal-child-care-and-related-appropriations#_ftnref1
119 U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Administration for Children and Families, “Clarifcation
of Interpretation of ‘Federal Public Beneft’ Regarding CCDF Services,” Program Instruction: ACYF-PICC-98-08,
November 25, 1998, https://www.acf.hhs.gov/occ/resource/pi-cc-98-08
120 TANF and Child Welfare Programs,” Government Accountability Ofce, October 2011
121 United States Department of Agriculture, “National School Lunch Program,” Accessed May, 2017, https://
www.fns.usda.gov/sites/default/fles/NSLPFactSheet.pdf
122 Neuberger, Zoe, Namian, Tina, “Who Benefts from Federal Subsidies for Free and Reduced Price School
Meals,” Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, 2010, http://www.cbpp.org/research/who-benefts-fromfederal-subsidies-for-free-and-reduced-price-school-meals#_ftn11
123 “Undocumented Immigrants State and Local Tax Contributions,” Institute on Taxation and Economic
Policy, 2017, https://itep.org/immigration/
124 “Mexico Got More Money from Remittances than from Oil Revenues in 2015,” NBC News, February, 2016,
Accessed May 23, 2017, http://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/mexico-got-more-money-remittances-oilrevenues-2015-n510346
125 Bernal, Rafael, “Mexicans in the US Sending Less Money Homes,” The Hill, May, 2016, Accessed May,
2017, http://thehill.com/latino/278655-mexicans-in-the-us-sending-less-money-home
126 “Consumer Expenditures—2015,” Bureau of Labor Statistics, website visited November 2, 2016 (http://
www.bls.gov/news.release/cesan.nr0.htm).
127 Zillow, “Texas Home Prices and Values,” Accessed June, 2017, https://www.zillow.com/tx/home-values/
128 Passel, Jefrey; Cohn, D’Vera, “A Portrait of Unauthorized Immigrants in the United States,” Pew Hispanic
Center, April, 2009, http://www.pewhispanic.org/fles/reports/107.pdf
129 United States Census Bureau, “Quarterly Residential Vacancies and Homeownership,” Second Quarter,
2017, https://www.census.gov/housing/hvs/fles/currenthvspress.pdf
130 American Petroleum Institute, “State Motor Fuel Taxes,” April, 2017, http://www.api.org/~/media/Files/
Statistics/State-Motor-Fuel-Taxes-Report-Apr-2017.pdf
131 Gas Buddy, “24 Month Average Retail Price Chart,” Data Accessed June, 2017, http://www.gasbuddy.
com/Charts
132 U.S. Energy Information Administration, “Frequently Asked Questions: How Much Gasoline Does the
United States Consume?,” Accessed June, 2017, https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=23&t=10
133 U.S. Department of Transportation, Federal Highway Administration, “Highway Finance Data Collection,”
2011, https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/pubs/hf/pl11028/chapter4.cfm
134 Caplinger, Dan, “The 5 States Without Sales Tax,” AOL Finance, May, 2013, Accessed June, 2017, https://
www.aol.com/article/2013/05/05/the-5-states-with-no-sales-tax/20558414/
maybe if you bothered to do any research for yourself you wouldnt be calling me a racist...
because it makes you look stupid
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oh boy all these racist sources like all those .gov and .org and all those PDFs of racism
101 Gusmano, Michael, “Undocumented Immigrants in the United States: U.S. Health Policy and Access to
Care”, (http://www.undocumentedpatients.org/issuebrief/health-policy-and-access-to-care/) website
consulted September 29, 2016.
102 Coughlin , Teresa A, ibid.
103 “Key Facts about the Uninsured Population,” Sep 29, 2016 Kaiser Family Foundation website (http://kf.
org/uninsured/fact-sheet/key-facts-about-the-uninsured-population/), consulted October 5, 2016.
104 Vliet, Elizabeth Lee, M.D., “Illegal Immigration Healthcare Costs Afect YOU!,” AAPS News of the Day
Blog, June 1,2010
105 Based on compilation of available SCAAP data. See, U.S. Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice
Statistics, “State Criminal Alien Assistance Program — Archives,” https://www.bja.gov/ProgramDetails.
aspx?Program_ID=86#horizontalTab8
106 Aguilar, Julian, “Even under Trump, state budget writers deliver big on border security funding,” The Texas
Tribune, May, 2017, Accessed June, 2017, https://www.texastribune.org/2017/05/23/even-under-trumpstate-budget-writers-deliver-big-border-security-fund/
107 Grissom, Brandi, “Gov. Abbott extends National Guard on the border in response to unaccompanied
minors,” The Dallas Morning News, December, 2015, Accessed June, 2017, https://www.dallasnews.
com/news/politics/2015/12/15/gov-abbott-extends-national-guard-on-the-border-in-response-tounaccompanied-minors
108 New Mexico Border Authority, “Welcome the New Mexico Border Authority,” http://www.nmborder.com/
109 State of New Mexico, “Report of the Legislative Finance Committee to the Fifty-Second Legislator,
Second Session,” January, 2016, https://www.nmlegis.gov/lcs/lfc/lfcdocs/budget/2017RecommendVolI.
pdf
110 Arizona Department of Public Safety — Arizona State Troopers, “Border Strike Force Bureau,” https://
www.azdps.gov/organization/CID/bsf
111 Ofce of the Governor, “State of Arizona FY 2017 Budget,” FY 2017, https://azgovernor.gov/fy17budget
112 State of Arizona, “FY 2016 Appropriations Report,” FY 2016, http://www.azleg.gov/jlbc/16AR/
FY2016AppropRpt.pdf
113 “Gov. Brown takes dig at Texas national guard border plan,” KSBW8, July 28,2014, Accessed June, 2017,
http://www.ksbw.com/article/gov-brown-takes-dig-at-texas-national-guard-border-plan/1054616
114 Murphy, Katy, “Gov. Jerry Brown unveils new state budget proposal with rosier outlook,” The Mercury
News,” May 11, 2017, Accessed June, 2017, http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/05/11/jerry-brownunveils-new-state-budget-proposal-thursday/
115 United States Congress, “Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996,”
https://www.congress.gov/104/plaws/publ193/PLAW-104publ193.pdf
116 U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Administration for Children and Families, “CCDF
Reauthorization Frequently Asked Questions,” March 25, 2015, https://www.acf.hhs.gov/occ/resource/
ccdf-reauthorization-faq-archived
117 Hannah Matthews, Karen Schulman, Julie Vogtman, Christine Johnson-Staub, and Helen Blank,
“Implementing the Child Care and Development Block Grant Reauthorization: A Guide for States,”
National Women’s Law Center — Center for Law and Social Policy, 2015, http://www.clasp.org/resourcesand-publications/publication-1/ccdbg-guide-for-states-fnal.pdf
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Still more?
You bet!
85 Department of Health and Human Services, Ofce of the Inspector General, “Medicare Improperly Paid
Millions of Dollars for Unlawfully Present Benefciaries for 2013 and 2014,” September 2016, https://oig.
hhs.gov/oas/reports/region7/71501159.pdf
86 U.S. Energy Information Administration, “Frequently Asked Questions: How Much Gasoline Does the
United States Consume?,” Accessed June, 2017, https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=23&t=10
87 [
Tax Policy Center, “What Are the Major Federal Excise Taxes, and How Much Money do they Raise?,” FY
2015, http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefng-book/what-are-major-federal-excise-taxes-and-how-muchmoney-do-they-raise
88 Magdelena Szafarski, Lisa A. Cubbins, and Jun Ying, “Epidemiology of Alcohol Abuse Among U.S.
Immigrant Populations,” Journal of Immigrant Minor Health, August 13, 2011, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.
gov/pmc/articles/PMC3133815/
89 Frohlich, Thomas C., “States Drinking the Most Beer,” USA Today, July,2015, https://www.usatoday.com/
story/money/business/2015/07/02/24-7-wall-st-states-drinking-most-beer/29574619/ ; Kirin Holdings
Company, “Per-Capita Beer Consumption by Country,” 2014, http://www.kirinholdings.co.jp/english/
news/2015/1224_01.html#table3
90 Bosdriesz, Jizzo; Lichthart, Nienke; Witvliet, Margot; Busschers, Wim; Stronks, Karien; Kunst, Anton,
“Smoking Prevalence among Migrants in the US Compared to the US-Born and the Population in
Countries of Origin,” PLOS, March, 2013, http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.
pone.0058654
91 Steven A. Camarota, “Welfare Use by Legal and Illegal Immigrant Households: An Analysis of Medicaid,
Cash, food, and Housing Programs,” Center for Immigration Studies, September 9, 2015< https://cis.org/
Report/Welfare-Use-Legal-and-Illegal-Immigrant-Households
92 Pew Research Center, Hispanic Trends, “U.S. Unauthorized Immigration Population Estimates, By State,”
2014, http://www.pewhispanic.org/interactives/unauthorized-immigrants/
93 “Plyler v. Doe,” Oyez, Retrieved May 12, 2017, https://www.oyez.org/cases/1981/80-1538
94 Op Cite, Raley, Ferris
95 National Conference of State Legislators, “Undocumented Student Tuition: Overview,” October 29, 2015,
http://www.ncsl.org/research/education/undocumented-student-tuition-overview.aspx
96 “Immigration Reform 2015: More Undocumented Immigrants Enrolling In College As States Debate Tuition
Laws,” International Business Times, February 11, 2015.
97 What is AB540, http://ab540.com/What_Is_AB540_.html
98 Unites States Citizenship and Immigration Services, “Number of I-821D, Consideration of Deferred
Action for Childhood Arrivals,” 2012-2016, https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/fles/USCIS/Resources/
Reports%20and%20Studies/Immigration%20Forms%20Data/All%20Form%20Types/DACA/daca_
performancedata_fy2016_qtr3.pdf
99 Gordon, Larry, Ed Source, “Colleges Expand Services for Undocumented Students as Legislation Seeks
More,” September, 2016, https://edsource.org/2016/colleges-expand-services-for-undocumentedstudents-as-legislation-seeks-more/569296
100 “Undocumented—and Unmeasured,” “New York’s political leaders obscure the costs of illegal
immigration under sentimental rhetoric.”, Seth Barron , City Journal, September 2, 2016
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Sorry your ignorance is showing
69 Passel, Jefrey S., Cohn, D’Vera, Pew Research, “A Portrait of Unauthorized Immigrants in the United
States,” 2009, http://www.pewhispanic.org/2009/04/14/a-portrait-of-unauthorized-immigrants-in-theunited-states/
70 Congressional Budget Ofce, “The Distribution of Household Income and Federal Taxes, 2013,”
June 2016, https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/fles/114th-congress-2015-2016/reports/51361-
householdincomefedtaxesonecol.pdf
71 http://www.pewhispanic.org/fles/reports/95.pdf
72 http://www.gao.gov/assets/660/656316.pdf
73 https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/statcomps/di_asr/2011/sect01.html
74 https://www.bls.gov/news.release/forbrn.t01.htm
75 “ARRA and the Additional Child Tax Credit,“ accessed August 26,2016, https://www.irs.gov/uac/arra-andthe-additional-child-tax-credit
76 Treasury Inspector General for Tax Adminsitration, Individuals Who Are Not Authorized in the United
States Were Paid $4.2 billion in Refundable credits,” July, 2011, https://www.treasury.gov/tigta/
auditreports/2011reports/201141061fr.pdf
77 Numbers USA, “Whistleblower Says IRS Managers Ignored Illegal-Aliens ITIN Fraud,” July, 2012, https://
www.numbersusa.com/content/news/july-3-2012/whistleblower-says-irs-managers-ignored-illegal-alienitin-fraud.html
78 U.S. Internal Revenue Service, “2015 EITC Income Limits, Maximum Credit Amounts, and Tax Law
Updates,” https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/individuals/earned-income-tax-credit/eitc-incomelimits-maximum-credit-amounts-1-year
79 “Refundable Tax Credits: Comprehensive Compliance Strategy and Expanded Use of Data Could
Strengthen IRS’s Eforts to Address Noncompliance,” GAO-16-475, May 2016.
80 Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration, “Existing Compliance Processes Will Not Reduce
the Billions of Dollars in Improper Earned Income Tax Credit and Additional Child Tax Credit Payments,”
September 29, 2014, https://www.treasury.gov/tigta/auditreports/2014reports/201440093fr.pdf
81 “Without Expanded Error Correction Authority, Billions of Dollars in Identifed Potentially Erroneous
Earned Income Credit Claims Will Continue to Go Unaddressed Each Year,” U.S. Treasury Inspector
General Report No. 2016-40-036, April 27, 2016.
82 Internal Revenue Service, “Internal Revenue Service Nationla Ofce Chief Counsel Advice,” July 14, 2000,
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-wd/0028034.pdf
83 U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, “Number of Form I-821D,Consideration of Deferred Action
for Childhood Arrivals, by Fiscal Year, Quarter, Intake,Biometrics and Case Status Fiscal Year 2012-2017
—FY2017, Q2,” March 31, 2017, https://www.h1bvisalawyerblog.com/2017/06/daca-statistics-dacaquarterly-report-fy2017-q2.html
84 Brookings Institution, “Immigration Facts: Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA),” August 14,
2013, https://www.brookings.edu/research/immigration-facts-deferred-action-for-childhood-arrivalsdaca/
85 Department of Health and Human Services, Ofce of the Inspector General, “
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Its almost as if this was a well researched topic
49 Ibid Ferris, Raley
50 U.S. Department of Agriculture, “Child Nutrition Tables” Federal Cost of School Food Programs, website
visited October 19, 2016 (http://www.fns.usda.gov/pd/child-nutrition-tables )
51 Camarota, Steven A. “Welfare Use by Legal and Illegal Immigrant Households,” Center for Immigration
Studies, September 2015, http://cis.org/Welfare-Use-Legal-Illegal-Immigrant-Households
52 U.S. Department of Agriculture, Food and Nutrition Service, WIC Program, WIC Funding and Program
Data, https://www.fns.usda.gov/wic/wic-funding-and-program-data
53 Camarota, Steven A. “Welfare Use by Legal and Illegal Immigrant Households,” Center for Immigration
Studies, September 2015.
54 U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, “WIC Participant and Program Characteristics 2014,”
November 2015, https://www.fns.usda.gov/sites/default/fles/ops/WICPC2014.pdf
55 The Urban Institute/University of Maryland Baltimore County, “Efects of Immigration on WIC and NSLP
Caseloads,” September 2010, http://www.urban.org/sites/default/fles/publication/29156/412214-Efectsof-Immigration-on-WIC-and-NSLP-Caseloads.PDF
56 United States Department of Agriculture, Food and Nutrition Service, WIC Program, Monthly Data, https://
www.fns.usda.gov/pd/wic-program
57 [i] “TANF Caseload Data 2014,” May 22, 2015,HHS website visited October 21, 2016, (http://www.acf.hhs.
gov/ofa/resource/caseload-data-2014 )
58 [ii] Congressional Budget Ofce, “Temporary Assistance for Needy Families: Spending and Policy
Options,” FY2013, https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/fles/114th-congress-2015-2016/reports/49887-tanf.
pdf
59 Congressional Research Service, “Immigration: Non-Citizen Eligibility for Needs-Based Housing
Programs,” July, 2008, https://www.ilw.com/immigrationdaily/news/2011,0113-crs.pdf
60 Richwine, Rector, “The Fiscal Cost of Unlawful Immigrants and Amnesty to the U.S. Taxpayer,” The
Heritage Foundation, 2013, http://www.heritage.org/immigration/report/the-fscal-cost-unlawfulimmigrants-and-amnesty-the-us-taxpayer
61 Forum on Child and Family Statistics, “Child Population: Number of Children,” Projections 2016-2050,
https://www.childstats.gov/americaschildren/tables/pop1.asp
62 The College Board, “Trends in Student Aid 2015,” http://trends.collegeboard.org/sites/default/fles/trendsstudent-aid-web-fnal-508-2.pdf
63 The Motley Fool, LLC, “What’s the Average American’s Tax Rate?” March 4, 2017, https://www.fool.com/
retirement/2017/03/04/whats-the-average-americans-tax-rate.aspx
64 Robert Rector and Jamie Hall, “National Academy of Sciences Report Indicates Amnesty for Unlawful
Immigrants Would Cost Trillions of Dollars,” The Heritage Foundation, December 22, 2016, http://
www.heritage.org/immigration/report/national-academy-sciences-report-indicates-amnesty-unlawfulimmigrants-would
65 The Tax Policy Center, “Tax Policy Center Briefng Book: Key Elements of the U.S. Tax System,” http://
www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefng-book/how-does-federal-tax-system-afect-low-income-households
66 Jason Richwine and Robert Rector, “The Fiscal Cost of Unlawful Immigrants and Amnesty to the U.S.
Taxpayer,” The Heritage Foundation, May 6, 2013, http://www.heritage.org/immigration/report/the-fscalcost-unlawful-immigrants-and-amnesty-the-us-taxpayer
67 Ibid.
68 Op Cite, Richwine, Rector, Camarota, Cohn, Passel
69 Passel, Jefrey S., Cohn, D’Vera, Pew Research, “A Portrait of Unauthorized Immigrants in the
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Dont worry there is more
30 U.S. Customs and Border Protection, “CBP Performance and Accountability Report,” FY 2014, https://
www.cbp.gov/sites/default/fles/documents/CBP_DHS_2014%20PAR_508C.PDF
31 U.S. Department of Homeland Security, “Budget in Brief,” FY 2016, https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/
fles/publications/FY_2016_DHS_Budget_in_Brief.pdf
32 U.S. Department of Justice - Ofce of Justice Programs, “Program Name: State Criminal Alien Assistance
Program (SCAAP),” FY2016, https://ojp.gov/about/pdfs/BJA_SCAAP%20Prog%20Summary_For%20
FY%2017%20PresBud.pdf
33 U.S. Department of Justice, “FY 2016 Statistics Yearbook,” March 2017, https://www.justice.gov/eoir/
page/fle/fysb16/download shows 328,112
34 TracImmigration website, “Nature of Charge in New Filings Seeking Removal Orders Through May 2017,”
http://trac.syr.edu/phptools/immigration/charges/apprep_newfling_charge.php
35 William A. Kandel, “Unaccompanied Alien Children: An Overview,” Congressional Research Service,
January 18, 2017 https://fas.org/sgp/crs/homesec/R43599.pdf
36 Ibid.
37 U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, “FY2017 Justifcation of Estimates for Appropriations
Committees,” https://www.acf.hhs.gov/sites/default/fles/olab/fnal_cj_2017_print.pdf
38 U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, “FY2017 Justifcation of Estimates for Appropriations
Committees,” https://www.acf.hhs.gov/sites/default/fles/olab/fnal_cj_2017_print.pdf
39 U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, FY 2016 President’s Budget for HHS, Department of
Health and Human Services, (www.hhs.gov/about/budget/fy2016/budget-in-brief/index.html) website
consulted August 9, 2016.
40 U.S. Government Printing Ofce, “Department of Homeland Security Appropriations for 2017,” February
24, 2017 https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CHRG-114hhrg20679/pdf/CHRG-114hhrg20679.pdf
41 General Accountability Ofce, “Unaccompanied Alien Children: Actions Needed to Ensure Children
Receive Required Care in DHS Custody,” July 2015, http://www.gao.gov/assets/680/671393.pdf
42 U.S. Department of Homeland Security, “Homeland Security: Budget-in-Brief Fiscal Year 2016,” https://
www.dhs.gov/sites/default/fles/publications/FY_2016_DHS_Budget_in_Brief.pdf
43 U.S. Department of Homeland Security, “Homeland Security: Budget-in-Brief Fiscal Year 2017,” https://
www.dhs.gov/sites/default/fles/publications/FY2017BIB.pdf
44 Executive Ofce of the President, “Department of Health and Human Services Budget,” https://www.
whitehouse.gov/sites/whitehouse.gov/fles/omb/budget/fy2018/hhs.pdf
45 U.S. Department of Homeland Security, “Homeland Security: Budget-in-Brief Fiscal Year 2018,” https://
www.dhs.gov/sites/default/fles/publications/DHS%20FY18%20BIB%20Final.pdf
46 U.S. Department of Justice - Ofce of Justice Programs, “Byrne Justice Assistance Grant (JAG)
Program,” FY 2016, https://ojp.gov/about/pdfs/BJA_Byrne%20Justice%20Assistance%20Grants%20
(JAG)%20Program%20Summary_For%20FY%2017%20PresBud.pdf
47 Federal Bureau of Investigation, “National Gang Threat Assessment – 2009,” January 2009, https://www.
fbi.gov/fle-repository/stats-services-publications-national-gang-threat-assessment-2009-pdf/view
48 Camarota, Steven A. “Welfare Use by Legal and Illegal Immigrant Households,” Center for Immigration
Studies, September 2015.
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14 Desilver, “Immigrants don’t make up a majority of workers in any U.S. industry,” Pew Research Center,
March, 2017, http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/03/16/immigrants-dont-make-up-a-majority-ofworkers-in-any-u-s-industry/
15 U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, “Head Start Program Facts,” FY 2015, https://eclkc.ohs.
acf.hhs.gov/hslc/data/factsheets/2015-hs-program-factsheet.html
16 Mistry, Saurez-Orozco, “Preschool Makes a Diference for Poor Immigrant Children,” The New York
Times, February, 2013, http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2013/02/25/is-public-preschool-a-smartinvestment/preschool-makes-a-diference-for-poor-immigrant-children
17 Coughlin, Holahan, Caswell, McGrath, “Uncompensated Care for the Uninsured in 2013: A Detailed
Examination,” The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation, 2013, http://kf.org/uninsured/report/
uncompensated-care-for-the-uninsured-in-2013-a-detailed-examination/
18 “Key Facts about the Uninsured Population,” The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation, September, 2016,
http://kf.org/uninsured/fact-sheet/key-facts-about-the-uninsured-population/#footnote-198942-12
19 Radnofsky, “Illegal Immigrants Get Public Health Care, Despite Federal Policy,” The Wall Street Journal,
March, 2016, https://www.wsj.com/articles/illegal-immigrants-get-public-health-care-despite-federalpolicy-1458850082
20 Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, “Births in the United States,” 2015, https://www.cdc.gov/
nchs/products/databriefs/db258.htm
21 Markus, Andre, West, Garro, Pellegrini, “Medicaid Covered Births, 2008 Through 2010, in the Context of
the Implementation of Health Reform,” Women’s Health Issues, September-October, 2013, http://www.
whijournal.com/article/S1049-3867(13)00055-8/fulltext
22 Reed, Westfall, Bublitz, Battaglia, Fickenscher, “Birth outcomes in Colorado’s undocumented
immigrant population,” BioMed Central, 2005, https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/
articles/10.1186/1471-2458-5-100
23 “How Undocumented Immigrants Sometimes Receive Medicaid Treatment,” PBS Newshour, February 13,
2013 Also see “Trends in Emergency Medicaid Expenditures for Recent and Undocumented Immigrants”
JAMA, March 14, 2007.
24 U.S. Government Accountability Ofce, “Financial Audit: Fiscal Years 2016 and 2015 Consolidated
Financial Statements of the U.S. Government,” January, 2017, http://www.gao.gov/assets/690/682081.pdf
25 U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, “Medicaid Fraud Control Units Fiscal Year 2015 Annual
Report,” 2016, https://oig.hhs.gov/oei/reports/oei-07-16-00050.pdf
26 Pfzer Medical Division, “A Profle of Uninsured Persons in the United States,” 2008, http://www.pfzer.
com/fles/products/Profle_of_uninsured_persons_in_the_United_States.pdf
27 Kaiser Family Foundation, “Key Facts About the Uninsured Population,” September 29, 2016, http://www.
kf.org/uninsured/fact-sheet/key-facts-about-the-uninsured-population/
28 “Medicaid Spending per Enrollee — Full or Partial Beneft,” The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation, 2011,
http://kf.org/medicaid/state-indicator/medicaid-spending-per-enrollee/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel=
%7B%22colId%22:%22Location%22,%22sort%22:%22asc%22%7D
29 National Immigration Forum, “Department of Homeland Security — The President’s FY 2017 Budget,”
http://immigrationforum.org/blog/the-presidents-fscal-year-2017-budget-the-department-of-homelandsecurity/
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Ill help spoon feed you you ignorant twat...
1 Elizabeth English, “Illegal Immigration and K-12 Education,” American Enterprise Institute, February 25,
2015, http://www.aei.org/publication/illegal-immigration-k-12-education/
2 Joel Gherke, “Report: U.S. Spent $1.87 Billion to Incarcerate Illegal-Immigrant Criminals in 2014,”
National Review, July 28, 2015, http://www.nationalreview.com/article/421673/report-us-spent-187-billionincarcerate-illegal-immigrant-criminals-2014-joel-gehrke
3 Erik Ruark and Jack Martin, “The Sinking Lifeboat: Uncontrolled Immigration and the U.S. Healthcare
System in 2009,” Federation for American Immigration Reform, 2009, http://www.fairus.org/site/
DocServer/healthcare_09.pdf?docID=3521
4 DHS/CIS: Number of I-821D,Consideration of Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals by Fiscal Year,
Quarter, Intake, Biometrics and Case Status: 2012-2016 (March 31)
5 Some illegal aliens are temporarily protected against deportation. Most of them are in one of three
programs; Temporary Protected Status (TPS), Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA), and Cubans
who beneft from the “wet-foot-dry-foot executive policy. The frst two programs, if allowed to expire
would restore benefciaries to illegal alien status and for that reason the benefciaries are treated in this
study as part of the illegal alien population. The Cuban illegal entrants, on the other hand, are provided
permanent legal status under the Cuban Adjustment Act after one year in the country, and are not,
therefore, included in our calculation of the illegal alien population, despite the fact that their illegal entry
is indistinguishable from the entry of other illegal aliens, and certainly constitutes a negative fscal impact
at the federal and local level.
6 Martin, Jack, Ruark, Eric, “The Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration on United States Taxpayers,”
Federation for American Immigration Reform, 2013, http://www.fairus.org/DocServer/research-pub/
USCostStudy_2013upd.pdf
7 Ferris, Raley, “The Elephant in the Classroom: Mass Immigration’s Impact on Public Education,”
Federation for American Immigration Reform, 2016, http://www.fairus.org/publications/the-elephant-inthe-classroom-mass-immigrations-impact-on-public-education
8 National Center for Education Statistics, “Fast Facts,” 2016, https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.
asp?id=372
9 U.S. Dept. of Education, Budget Tables, English Language Acquisition (ESEA III, Part A) https://www2.
ed.gov/about/overview/budget/budget17/17action.pdf
10 Ferris, Raley, “The Elephant in the Classroom: Mass Immigration’s Impact on Public Education,”
Federation for American Immigration Reform, 2016, http://www.fairus.org/publications/the-elephant-inthe-classroom-mass-immigrations-impact-on-public-education
11 U.S. Department of Education, Programs, “Migrant Education--Basic State Formula Grants,” https://
www2.ed.gov/programs/mep/index.html
12 Department of Education, Congressional Action, FY2017, https://www2.ed.gov/about/overview/budget/
budget17/17action.pdf
13 U.S. Department of Education, “High Standards for All Students: A Report from the National Assessment
of Title I on Progress and Challenges Since the 1994 Reauthorization,” https://www2.ed.gov/rschstat/eval/
disadv/nati.pdf
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DM Lamont
you sound like a snide condescending prick
Here, i did the work for you because you are too goddamn entitled to use google
Dont worry its sourced
Total Federal Educational Expenditures:
Primary and Secondary Education $943,200,000
Limited English Proficiency (LEP) – Title III $541,694,040
Migrant schooling (Title I C) $206,140,000
Total $1,691,034,040
Total Medical Expenditures
Uncompensated Hospital Expenditure$8,200,000,000
Medicaid Births$1,242,990,372
Medicaid Fraud$3,458,475,000
Medicaid for U.S.-born Kids of Illegal Aliens$4,234,129,200
Total $17,135,594,572.00
Total Federal Justice Enforcement Expenditures
Federal Incarceration $1,240,000,000
Enforcement and Removals $3,218,000,000
Customs and Border Protection $5,968,729,360
Other ICE Operations $1,126,840,000
State Criminal Alien Assistance Program (SCAAP) $210,000,000
Executive Office for Immigration Review (EOIR) $168,120,000
Alien Minors $1,200,000,000
Byrne grants $16,920,000
Total $13,148,609,360
Total Federal Welfare Programs
Meals in Schools $1,003,000,000
Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program $1,963,416,000
Women Infants and Children $1,097,820,360
Temporary Assistance for Needy Families $1,785,000,000
Total $5,849,236,360
ANd before " but muh illegals pay taxes"
Net Federal Impact of Illegal Aliens
Total Federal Outlays $45,870,474,332
Net Federal Receipts $15,447,897,700
Net Fiscal Impact $30,422,576,632
-$30 million whew
source
https://fairus.org/issue/publications-resources/fiscal-burden-illegal-immigration-united-states-taxpayers
Now to answer your question.
It is a crime
8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien
source
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1325
deportation is a must
they dont belong here
they are a net fiscal drain
they are a drain on medical resources
they are a drain on the public job market
why is this my or any of the other citizens problem?
maybe, JUST maybe..... maybe you DON'T actually know everything
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@0wn-nothing-be-happy
"I had avoided ypur references about Japan and the European ethnostates up to now because I have had that conversation with a race hustler like you before"
Oh, ok, so answering what happens when you displace one people with another is " race hustling"? cmon, you cant be that dishonest
"You can call me anti white and I can shrug it off as meaningless in the same way wokescolds call me racist for not bowing to all of their nonsense about everything being about race."
Yeah, because leaving all topics of racial discussion to the "wokescolds" ( thats a new one) means you allow them to control the narrative... so good job letting them win i guess
"I will leave you with my opinion of race hustling in general:
"You are stuck in a false tribal mentality that is a good way to control people because we evolved in small tribal bands and are genetically programmed to serve our group."
So, you are telling me, the pattern of behavior that has led to the continued existiance of mankind, is now " false" and that people talking about it are all " race hustlers"
pretty terrible take....
"Race hustling hijacks that evolutionary programming and replaces a small in group with a huge, amorphous group."
Uh, no, im pretty sure " race hustlin" is just the name of the game every single group ( in white majority countries mind you) are allowed to do... ya know, affirmative action, quotas, diversity programs, advocacy groups, etc etc etc.... ya know, the inevitable outcome of "diversity"
"We have also developed cultural programming that is far more sophisticated than our simple evolutionary programming."
excuse me? that sounds like brainwashing a group of people against their wills
"The individual is primary in modernity, and our urges toward in group biases are just relics of our natural past."
the cult of individualism doesnt work when the rest of the world doesnt ascribe by it
"If you want to advocate for dismantling modernity in favor of a return to nature, I am on board.
Sure? modernity is cancer
"If you want to use our inferior hardware to run your divide and rule program on a large population, you are stuck in the lower thinking of your brain or you are an unprincipled opportunist."
WTF are you even trying to articulate here
"White people are people. You can be obsessed with the adjective, but you have no choice but to be the noun."
Wow amazing such wisdom... you are a joke and are so far indoctrinated into your anti white " cultural programming" to see that
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@0wn-nothing-be-happy
"I didn't know Seagal had a Jewish dad"
Yah know, you would be surprised how over represented they are in all areas of fame/power/finance
"See how hard it is to even know what white is and isn't?"
No its pretty easy, you are just anti white
"According to YOU"
No, according to the most jewish of jews
"Scarlett Johansson is not white because it is ok with you for people that present as white to exclude themselves for cultural reasons."
No, you seem to not get it. You seem to be conflating ethnic jewishness with the religion of Judaism. If she has jewish genetic ancestry, she is jewish and not white. if there is no jewish blood, she is just a " white" who happens to be " jewish"
"But, someone with dark features, like say, the prime minister of Spain, is white, right?"
"So, if Scarlett Johansson isn't white, but Pedro Sanchez is white but is darker than her, what is the definition of white?"
Debatable, as there is european blood in the linage of many in spain, but they wold be more" part white", BUT they are distinct enough to not necessarily be " white" to all " white" groups. But i fail to see the importance to americian migration and the rapidly dwindling " white" groups ( german, french, dutch, etc), meanwhile, the same sorts of mass immigration are happening anywhere " whites" are, like in the UK
"If we are classifying people based on appearance, I don't know at what point we would include or exclude people."
because you arent classifying people based on appearances, probably because you think " race" is just skin color or some nonsense
"The dictator in Syria looks pretty white to me. Is he white, too?"
Again, " looking white" is meaningless
"Islam?"
totally separate topic, but i would even shun and denounce " white" islamists
"Can you tell me how to know where whiteness begins and ends?"
European blood
"What about Obama?"
LOL no
"Steven Seagal's mom was white too. Is one drop of white blood enough to classify you as white?"
Depoends on a dna test for jewish ethnic relations, already talked about this
"What amount of European DNA is required to qualify as white?"
At least 90%? like " is obama white" is such a dumb dishonest question, im starting to think you arent even serious about what your own opinions are...
What does this have to do with the mass importation from CLEARLY non " whites" ( indians, south americians, cape verdians, haitians, somalians) and the rapidly declining numbers of whites in even their own homelands? ( france, germany, sweden)
let me ask you a hypothetical question...
Japan (~125 million people)
India (~1,336 million people)
If you had mass immigration from indian into japan, what would happen to the population of japan? would the japanese continue to exist becoming minorities in their own homeland?
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@0wn-nothing-be-happy
I am not anti-white"
You can say that but your opinions are clearly anti white
"I just don't think white is an interesting distinction"
Oh, so the demographic eraser of my people is not interesting?
pretty anti white dude
"or even one that is consistent throughout history or based on hard science"
" Bro what is white, you cant define it so it doesnt exist"
Pretty anti white
"Race is a handy tool to divide and control people."
Race isnt a " tool" its a natural existence of being..... pretending that shoving a bunch of different groups together and then when people point out they are different, that isnt " divide and control" that part was when they shoved a bunch of unlike groups together and told them they were all the same when they can clearly see they are not...
Pretty anti wite still
"I like freedom. Freedom to move and associate as you wish."
Yeah, unless thats White peoples freedom to be free among whites and associate among whites... turns out we have to share out countries with the entire world instead... doesnt seem very free now does it? and " freedom of association"? we cant have that since the civil rights movement
:If you only want to hang out with people you think are white, ok."
Um its clearly not. that is " white spremacy" and " racism" for whites wanting to be around whites...
blatantly anti white at this point dude i dont know what you think you are trying to say
"I like white people stuff"
Then why do you not care they they will cease to exist?
you are anti white
(is Greek white tho? idk).
short answer, yes
long answer, Well since people like you like to pretend white doesnt exist by constantly asking " is this white i dont think this is white" and therefore white doesnt exist, its a pretty anti white stance, as every single one of those you listed is " white" when compared to every other group on the planet, but please, continue displaying your anti white opinions continue
"Cornel West is a thoughtful chap."
cmon man...
socialist? Check
anti white? Check
pro isreal? check
"Who cares who somebody's pussyhole somebody came out of?"
The fact that you ask this question means you really have zero clue about what you THINK you are talking about...
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@Mezzo396
We're back to the part where you go off on how you never said this and this wasnt your argument ad nasuem. Fun.
Oh you mean another episode of " if i deny im doing it i can just call him a liar"
"See above"
See below
Oh you mean another episode of " if i deny im doing it i can just call him a liar"
"Source we are at capacity? The fact we have a population density that is TWENTY SEVEN TIMES less than the UK and the UK isnt a collapsing black hole is probably solid evidence the US isnt at anything close to capacity.
yeah i guess if you account that having massive population centers isnt already pushing capacity, and housing is totally not an issue in the uk, ok pal. Piling more and more people into population dense cities isnt going to make any of this better....
"Should we start planning on implementing population controls to reduce birth rates too?"
Or we could oh i dunno, reduce immigration a little? i mean its not like were taking more immigrants now than ever before or anything..
"the populations growing regardless buddy."
no shit, whos saying they dont? Im sure not...
"Uh, not doing anything to solve the problems causing the need for raising the MW is absolutely status quo"
The problems arent immigrants to a country founded by fucking immigrants.
Immigration is a part of the problem, this is a nation of settlers and pioneers, but go ahead and keep giving my that garbage line some more.
We put a poem about it on a giant statue in one of our most prominent cities.
It has nothing to do with the statue, and was written by an immigration lobby group member, but yeah totally legit
"We handed out citizenship to fuckers like it was candy. White people arent native to this land, by definition our founding was based on immigration from one place of origin to this one."
You are conflating land mass with nation, and immigration in the last few decades is far far different than immigration of over a hundred years ago, so dont give me this nonsense
"There is a vast chasm of a difference between pre 1965 immigration and post 1965 immigration. this also discounts that immigration 100 years ago was nothing like immigration today, and vast swaths of the country were uninhabited. "
What are the vast chasms of differences
Sheer numbers of immigrants first off. then we can talk about the infrastructure and economy differences in both eras, we can talk about where they come from, and we can talk about the forming of ethnic enclaves and get into a discussion about multiculturalism, but im 99% sure you dont want an honest discussion
And yeah minus the millions of Native Americans it was totally empty. It wasnt like a giant genocide was committed to move in.
yeah because all native americians were all the same, and nothing else happened other than white man bad hurting non white man
Facts and data disagree. Organized labor is more powerful than unorganized labor.
You have the same power the average citizen has from keeping the US from bombing the middle east... so effectively none
Back to the first comment
Oh you mean another episode of " if i deny im doing it i can just call him a liar"
"Study after study shows the correlation between union decline and wage staganation and wealth inequality."
You point out to me the capitalist class is evil, yet you keep quoting words from people who benefit from their existence...
what the hell are you talking about it was a walk in the park?
"So government causes the problem, then offers teh solution, amazing, almost like ive heard this problem raction solution thing before...."
Do you think all government action is the same?
No, but all action from corrupt governments will almost always benefit the corrupt ones...
"If the government does something that is bad, that doesnt somehow make any government action bad. This isnt an argument."
This isnt the argument im making.....
The country was founded by immigrants
ok, whatever you say dude
"They are not native to this land, this land was not empty, it was occupied by another civilization."
No, it actually wasnt, native Americans werent a monolith, and yes vast majority of the land was empty, but please continue with your historical revisionism
" White people are not native to the Americas."
And native americians arent native to those lands either, they too migrated from elsewhere, like every single peoples before...
"How does the European descent matter unless you have some prevailing notion about non white immigration?"
Because Europeans are a global minority but are always the bad guy in the historical sense, and pointing out that majority European nations are becoming minority European is somehow bigoted and racist to point out...
"And these ceos do this by using government intervention to destroy competition, and craft favorable legislation, i guess the only solution is more government..."
So again no organized labor, no government action. Just sit back because you have no other solutions to a problem.
Or stop giving the establishment what it wants and try to actually address actual problems instead of living inside the controlled left right paradigm
"Once again see first comment"
Once again, my reply
Oh you mean another episode of " if i deny im doing it i can just call him a liar"
"Capitalist economies without growth is in a depression."
so there is no such thing as a self sustaining economy?
"Read the first comment."
Oh you mean another episode of " if i deny im doing it i can just call him a liar"
"You could, you know, utilize organized labor to lobby on labors behalf for concessions? Ban money in politics, end citizens united. There are plenty of anti corruption legislative items that could be passed. Social security, medicare, civil rights act are all massive government passed actions that broke the status quo, several of these are against the interests of capital."
If you think those things are against the status quo i cant really say anything
It was a question. You arent a fascist then?
Well im not a capitalist, yet you call me one, now you assume im a fascists,. so clearly you have differing definitions of what these terms mean
"read the first comment."
Oh you mean another episode of " if i deny im doing it i can just call him a liar"
"heres a solution
1 End the fed
2 End federal income tax
3 Massive tarrifs on imported goods
but that work work either, because the mechanism to deliver those solutions is continually subverted but the powers that be"
Explain how any of this helps the working class, deals with wage stagnation and wealth inequality.
1. Having a non government run 3rd party given the power to control the money supply, is a recipe for disaster
"He who controls the money supply of a nation controls the nation."
2. the federal income tax, originally being sold as a temporary war effort, manages to suck away wealth from the lowest paid. Before you tell me the poor dont pay taxes, im talking about the people who work and are taxed at a both federal and state level and cant afford legions of lawyers to avoid paying endless taxes to a government that is corrupt and funnels money into crony programs, hence the trillions in debt...
3. before the income tax was implemented the cast majority of federal money came from tariffs. Making it more expensive to import goods rather than to make them locally would undoubtedly help return manufacturing to the country instead of relying on nations the world across, helping both domestic job markets, and the environment as many of the nations where things are imported from have much lower emissions and pollution standards and laws.
Whining again, first comment applies.
Oh you mean another episode of " if i deny im doing it i can just call him a liar"
"Explain your solution to dealing with cronyism"
Uhhh stringing up politicans and lobbyists by lightpoles in minecraft?
Cute, do you sympathize with fascists killing commies then? Honest question.
do you sympathize with socialist famines and mass deaths? honest question
Another whine, think about 50% of your response has been this without ever addressing a single point.
Oh you mean another episode of " if i deny im doing it i can just call him a liar"
"yeah crazy it was almost like the government lobbied by corperations and multinationals destroyed the country... weird how you want to use the same governments to fix the problem they cause with solutions they propose..."
This one time my government dropped a few nukes. This other time it genocided a bunch of people. Yesterday it sent a check to my grandma for living expenses. Kinda like the government can do different things depending on who you put in charge of it and what you want it to do. Almost like some action is good and some other actions are bad. Weird.
Yeah, the average person can control if my governmetn nukes people the same way you can control a union...
"yeah muh skin color
you are a sad sad unhappy marxist, and its kind of pathetic"
Your the only person complaining about migrants not of European descent here. Im happy enough with my life as it is, just glad I dont blame the brown guy for my issues, because darn it we were doing real swell till we hit 300million people or some arbitrary number.
Yeah again, its almost like you arent addressing what im saying... like a dishonest marxist or something
"whining"
Oh you mean another episode of " if i deny im doing it i can just call him a liar"
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@Mezzo396
"It raises their earnings without hurting their job prospects and increasing their COL. Its literally an improvement today and the only reason so far you've opposed it is somehow you want them to stop immigrants. Its unrelated."
Yeah its clear you dont actually want to have a discussion here, because that is not at all the only reason i oppose it. but please continue being dishonest
Imagine being a capitalist and not believing in infinite growth.
Imagine calling someone a capitalist while not doing capitalist things. Its almost like you arent arguing with me, you are arguing with a caricature of what you think my thoughts opinions and beliefs are are based off of your willful misinterpretation of my words.. amazing
We also havent reached any sort of capacity in the US. We are 27 times less densely populated than the UK.
Nah, we are pretty close to capacity and what the blue fuck does the UK have to do with my argument? you think the same things dont apply to the UK? of course it does.
"Raising the mw is not status quo, its the fucking opposite."
Uh, not doing anything to solve the problems causing the need for raising the MW is absolutely status quo
"The founding fucking ideas of our country are population growth and immigration."
No they arent
Literally every motherfucker here other than those on reservations are descendents of immigrants or slaves to this land.
There is a vast chasm of a difference between pre 1965 immigration and post 1965 immigration. this also discounts that immigration 100 years ago was nothing like immigration today, and vast swaths of the country were uninhabited.
"I have more power in my union than I do in a company without a union."
Perceived power sure
"Blaming the brown guy isnt solving my issues at work."
yeah thanks for strawmanning my argument, good work showing me how honest you are.
"Companies are corrupt and CEOs use this corruption to enrich themselves. But CEOs also enrich shareholders. Union bosses can be corrupt to, but dont get anything from enriching shareholders."
Right, they just enrich themselves, and the crony government employees that use these unions for their own needs...
"When did jobs start getting exported to other counties and what governmental laws or regulations led to this? When did immigration laws change? Unions can only work if the same people who work there way into local governments , are not able to run the unions, but this always ends up happening. Im not anti union, im pro pointing things out that arent going to fix the problem, and are just bandaids"
"My great grandparents took a boat with no money and no knowledge of English, had no degrees and no skilled labor. All they had to do was walk off the boat into the US and signed papers to become citizens. Was the country great then? Laws have only become more stringent over the history of this country. I dont know what the fuck you are talking about with immigration in the US, most of us aint from a fucking tribe"
And i dont know what the fuck you are talking about here...
Jobs got exported because unions got crushed by government and corporations.
So government causes the problem, then offers teh solution, amazing, almost like ive heard this problem raction solution thing before....
Any power they had was wiped out and good ol neoliberalism helped them along the way. you have no answer to fix the problems other than stopping immigration to a country founded by fucking immigrants.
No the country was founded by pioneers and settlers, and were of from European descent. " nation of immigrants" is some bullshit gaslighting adn historical revisionism by the powers that be.
CEOs and union bosses arent the same.
thanks for pointing out the obvious
You can tell that because Union bosses lost all their power and CEOs have become richer over the past decades.
And these ceos do this by using government intervention to destroy competition, and craft favorable legislation, i guess the only solution is more government.....
"The only thing you're worldview has done is genocide minorities in communities and put immigrants in boxes while letting the rich still rob us."
Wow and i thought you were lost before... its almost like you have no intention of understanding what im talking about, and only want to push your worldview onto me
"i dont have a scenario, but maybe infinite growth isnt a good thing for the little guy, so maybe address that problem, along with corrupt governments in bed with global multinationals, or everything else is moot
"
Without growth capitalism fails. Stop being a capitalist then
what the fuck are you talking about? why do you need infinite growth? what the fuck is an actual capitalist then? you seem to think you know me, but clearly you dont
"Corrupt governments in bed with global multinationals are going to be stopped how? You oppose organized labor. You oppose government regulation to disempower capital owners. You only approve of government actions on borders."
Gee i dunno, what would more government regulation ( lobbied by these ceos and miultinationals) going to do other than continue the status quo?
"Honest question, do you sympathize with facists?"
No? so am i a capitalist or a fascist? which one? are they interchangeable? read my mind some more and tell me what i think some more...
You have no solution but banging on migrants so far.
because thats how the conversation turned? and you keep telling me its a non issue?
heres a solution
End the fed
End federal income tax
Massive tarrifs on imported goods
but that work work either, because the mechanism to deliver those solutions is continually subverted but the powers that be
If these poor are now better off what difference does it make? Is your issue that you think poor people with nothing don't deserve the scraps you've managed to claw from your capital owners? Does the piggy think hes special because they gave him a little more than your brown neighbour?"
Its like you arent trying to have a discussion, its sad and pathetic that you just name call... imagine acting like this... just imagine disregarding what i say, and just putting words in my mouth and calling me names... can you imagine?
Guess we just have to let corporations off the hook because god forbid the small business would be subject to a regulation. Cant use organized labor, cant use government, only can watch videos on yt and comment about migrants.
Yeah or we could address the problem with cronyism and corruption in the system instead of trying to use the system to change the system, thatll totally work and not do the exact same things thats been done for decades. this time it will SURELY work
"Sounds like marxs theory of surplus value, but then by this very definition every single job is exploitation of labor"
Ding ding ding
Oh boy, i hear helicopters now!
"muh capitalism is the bad guy"
muh immigrants in a country of immigrants that used to be great when it was just my kind of immigrants. also muh infinite growth but not infinite growth.
Yeah crazy its almost like you arent being honest here. thanks though, wouldnt expect much different from a marxist
"yup self employed, small business, and climbing the job ladder dont exist in your world"
If you work extra hard im sure your nice owner will give some more good boi points to spend, just make sure not to ask for too many good boi points because hell fire you.
Again, complete dishonesty here
"Because the same fucker hiring them is the same fucker in charge of the unions, and the same fuckers in charge of the government, and the same fuckers in charge of these corporate global industries. Why would they solve any of the problems that are working out really well for them."
Where are the unions my dude? They were bashed in the skull by corporations in 20th C.
yeah crazy it was almost like the government lobbied by corperations and multinationals destroyed the country... weird how you want to use the same governments to fix the problem they cause with solutions they propose...
Yeah Id love a revolution but I aint getting one today, I'll take my basic shit like a living wage today and fight for the rest tomorrow. I aint wasting my breath on trying to kick out my brown neighbors for trying to make a living.
yeah muh skin color
you are a sad sad unhappy marxist, and its kind of pathetic
you know i could have sworn marx said something about immigration being bad for the working class....
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@Mezzo396
"They aren't related today because no one is passing a bill on immigration, nor does passing one law mean you cannot pass the other. The amount of immigrants that are coming tomorrow and the day after etc. is fixed under a different set of laws. Given those are not changing today, why oppose a bill that helps poor people now. Your opposition to immigration is irrelevant to the mw because they are fucking seperate ideas and laws. My ideology isn't satisfied with a mw change either but I'm not opposed to it simply because it doesn't give me everything I want in the economy. Its a basic improvment for the lives of millions of American poor."
Because its not going to actually help the poor. its just passing the buck and letting the actual problems continue, because ACTUALLY SOLVING THEM isnt good for those in power, because continuing the status quo is what they want. My opposition doesnt really matter because its going to be done regardless.
I just explained how labor supply increases labor demand - humans consume goods and services. More humans = more consumption.
this is a how it happens on paper vs how it actually happens. the systems and infrastructure already in place dont have unlimited capacity to expand and grow, and resources arent infinite.
Stopping immigration isn't stopping population growth.
right, i ddint say it did
Look up the lump supply of labor fallacy and read about it yourself.
i did, which is also why i said "Im not pretending that jobs are a fixed number in the economy"
Low skilled labor is not in short supply today, we have massive underemployment. Adding more doesn't matter because there is already a high supply of low skilled labor by definition, anyone in the labor market can fufill it. The number of jobs will increase as the number of people increase. They arent fighting for THAT job, they are fighting over an increasing number of jobs as a result of any population growth that has happened for the past 50000 years.
"the systems and infrastructure already in place dont have unlimited capacity to expand and grow, and resources arent infinite. "
There is only so much space, there is only so many things that can be made at any given time. Im trying to address issues that go back decades, adn have been problems for decades, because the only things that get passed are things that continue the status quo for the people in charge...
"Right, then the same cronyism, and corruption that is currently in place in the corperate environment is then taken up by the uinion environment. Raising the min wage is not the solution"
1) Can I vote my CEO out? Can I influence him in any serious way?
Can you vote in a union where the same cronyism in government takes place, and we have people we dont like doing things we dont want them do to under the guise of a democratic vote?
2) What is the purpose of a union? What is the purpose of the corporation? Are they different?
Yes of course they are different, why does that matter?
3) Why do studies show wealth inequality increasing and wages stagnating as labor unions were killed in the mid-late 20th C?
When did jobs start getting exported to other counties and what governmental laws or regulations led to this? When did immigration laws change? Unions can only work if the same people who work there way into local governments , are not able to run the unions, but this always ends up happening. Im not anti union, im pro pointing things out that arent going to fix the problem, and are just bandaids
4) Why does Germany still have a strong manufacturing sector and the US doesn't?
Because the US government has sold out the American people for over a hundred years? your evil CEO's are the same types for people running the government and end up being the same people that gain control of major unions.....
In your world - we would be subject to the corrupt corporate overlords and capital class,
right because we could just trust the unions to not do the same thing our elected officials do when they are the same people as muh evil CEO's...
"enjoy the bootlicking"
Lol sure bud that TOTALLY it
Explain any other scenario whereby unorganized labor has a real chance of demanding concessions for a better living.
i dont have a scenario, but maybe infinite growth isnt a good thing for the little guy, so maybe address that problem, along with corrupt governments in bed with global multinationals, or everything else is moot
How has the fact that your boss has underpaid you for your work mean your hard work dissapears?
disappears because the time spend working and becoming better at the job no longer matters, because now the new wage is higher.
You are being screwed today by your capital owner and have decided to blame the poor and powerless person below you. Fucking christ.
Thats not at all what im doing but go off champ, go off
Unskilled labor gets fucked already my dude. What are you talking about? The boss can fire the unskilled worker today the minute he wants to.
right, and all raising the min wage does is raise the poverty floor making more people the same level of poor as min wage.
You have bought into the lie your corporate overlords have sold you - work hard little good piggy and one day you'll earn the right to clean the sports car they earned off your work.
I guess the only work that exists is corporate work because small business dont exist anymore because they cant compete, dont have the massive capitol to afford endless government regulation and taxation, same with all those self employed people who again cant compete.
Heres a basic hint - if a boss make money off work you do he is exploiting your labor for himself.
Sounds like marxs theory of surplus value, but then by this very definition every single job is exploitation of labor
He can do this because of the current system of capitalism that has sold you a lie that hard work means something when the only thing that matters is power in the relationship and how much profit the capital class makes off of it.
muh capitalism is the bad guy
Power is not earned by hard work for the low skilled laborer, because right behind them is the next generation of teenagers and immigrants and the older recently laid off people clamoring for work. Power is only possible by labor organizing into a block to demand together a concession from the capital owner that he cannot exploit by firing
yup self employed, small business, and climbing the job ladder dont exist in your world
But in your worldview the issue is immigrants coming in and stealing a job a Mexican with no degree and no English can do well enough to still make money for his owner. Why blame this poor fucker instead of the asshole firing and hiring people to buy himself a 2nd home.
Because the same fucker hiring them is the same fucker in charge of the unions, and the same fuckers in charge of the government, and the same fuckers in charge of these corporate global industries. Why would they solve any of the problems that are working out really well for them...
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@Mezzo396
"Ok, follow me on this one. Immigration (legal) increases the labor supply, making job turnover a non issue, as most places have lists of applicants constantly. "
1) This doesn't have anything to do with the mw. If I increase the min wage, how does this impact immigration into the US? Illegals aren't entitled to a mw, and legal immigration is fixed under different legislation. The supply of legal labor is already occuring regardless of a mw or not. Immigration and mw are seperate.
This is because you keep pretending none of these things are related in a system that they are all apart of... Immigration is a point i brought up as a response to raising the min wage is not actually solving the problem
2) The number of jobs inside the economy is not fixed. An increase in labor supply does not mean there are less jobs - this is the lump supply of labor fallacy. Increasing labor supply also increases labor demand because new people in an economy need more goods and services, in turn requiring more jobs to provide them.
Im not pretending that jobs are a fixed number in the economy. YOU are discounting the effect a endless labor pool has on relative employment. How do you even figure that this increase in labor increases demand? What good is this if the large numbers of people coming in are also the ones servicing others movin on in, leaving the people already here to fight for wahtever other jobs may exist in an economy where turnover is better than paying employees more, because there is always more people lining up for that job...
3) When has low skilled labor been in short supply in the US? When has there not been underemployment in the US in the low skilled job market?
When has that ever been something i said? but ok
"This relates to my original point, where i brought up my example where an older employee dissatisfied with watching his hard work disappear as the min wage goes up to just under his new wage, asks for a higher wage, then is replaced by another worker."
1) Sounds like this worker would have benefited from a union where he could collectively bargain for higher wages with his capital owner counterpart. A single low skilled laborer has no power in the relationship.
Right, then the same cronyism, and corruption that is currently in place in the corperate environment is then taken up by the uinion environment. Raising the min wage is not the solution
2) How does increasing the mw make his hard work dissapear?
Working hard, displaying proficiency at the workplace, and earning raises
"He isn't a skilled laborer then if he can be replaced by a low skilled mw worker at cost."
So unskilled labor can go fuck themselves? so unskilled labor cant get work experience, wage increases and transfer into other departments? why do all the hard work when you can just advocate for increasing min wage. then it doesnt matter
This example unironically happened to me twice , the second wasnt because of a min wage increase, but the same " fire the higher paid employee who complained with a new employee who needs a job" secondly, this doesnt even take into account under the table jobs, where even the government MW laws matter."
1) Sounds like you needed a union then.... You literally gave me this very scenario as a legitimate example of how unorganized labor should get a better wage. Sounds like even you acknowledge unorganized labor has relatively little power.
a union will not solve the problem with working retail, or in tech services. Unions will inevitably just inflate the costs of everything around them, crony up with corrupt government, and generally screw the lowest in the union while protecting terrible employees.... like most other unions
2) This is an anecdote. Studies in the US show that mw increases do not lead to a drop in jobs and instead lead to a rise in low income earners.
its all relative and meaningless if the reduce hours. also im a little tire of muh studies show, the entire academic institution is also corrupt, and you can get a study to say whatever you want and mostly serve as appeals to authority while discussing any given topic.
"I explained this above. employers would rather fire the higher paid employees and higher new employees because its cheaper. These types of decisions are made by people who usually are unable to actually do the job themselves.."
1) Sounds like an argument for labor to organize to collectively bargain concessions while protecting their jobs from the owner class.
Sounds like most of the wage increases will go to taxes and union dues, while not actually solving the problem with corruption, while simultaneously not addressing the overarching issues of immigration and outsourcing on the job market...
2) Hypothetical scenario - the current employees at $15 would either be skilled workers in lower income areas, or low skilled workers in high COL areas / with existing $15 min wage. A raise to $15 at a fed level wouldnt impact the latter, so lets look at the former. Assuming no unions here.
Can the owner fire the employee at $15 today and hire a lower cost employee at $7? Yes they can. So today the owner is already paying a premium above the floor rate for perceived skills. The skilled laborer has some leverage with his higher skilled labor in the negotiation, but at the end of the day the Cost/benefit anaylsis the owner can do always gives him the option to reduce labor costs.
If the gov raises the mw to $15 can he fire the higher skilled employee and higher the lower cost at $7? No. So the employer loses the ability to shirk costs off for lower skilled lower cost labor. How does the higher skilled older $15 laborer lose power in this scenario? His boss cant fire him for cheaper because hes already at the bottom.
The only person who gains power in this negotiation is higher skilled laborer, because unlike the previous scenario, the capital counterparty has less options.
How? raising the MW doesnt raise wages above it relative to its increase. just because the lowest jobs are now 15 doesnt mean everything in-between the old MW and the new MW increases relative to the MW, so his skills at 15 are only worth what other jobs will offer
"Yes, if the new wage is exactly the same as the older employees wage. but they can still fire you for wanting more money, they just find ways to do it. "
1) Again sounds like an argument for a union and better labor protection laws
muh unions ok dude, read above replies to muh unions
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@Mezzo396
"How is the mw related to immigration?? You haven't made a point here. The minimum wage does what to immigration in the US? A minimum wage means a wage cannot go below it, immigrants cant drive it any lower. "
Ok, follow me on this one. Immigration (legal) increases the labor supply, making job turnover a non issue, as most places have lists of applicants constantly. This relates to my original point, where i brought up my example where an older employee dissatisfied with watching his hard work disappear as the min wage goes up to just under his new wage, asks for a higher wage, then is replaced by another worker. This example unironically happened to me twice , the second wasnt because of a min wage increase, but the same " fire the higher paid employee who complained with a new employee who needs a job" secondly, this doesnt even take into account under the table jobs, where even the government MW laws matter.
"Make an argument that is different then."
I reiterated what i said in the above comment.
Three things
1) If the new min wage now reflects your current wage, you as a more skilled laborer can negotiate a higher wage as a result. The raising of the floor doesn't disempower you in a negotiation.
I explained this above. employers would rather fire the higher paid employees and higher new employees because its cheaper. These types of decisions are made by people who usually are unable to actually do the job themselves...
"If you have skills that previously made you more valuable to an employer than the minimum wage earners this hasn't changed, except that your boss can't fire you for cheaper less skilled workers as they would cost the same as you currently do."
Yes, if the new wage is exactly the same as the older employees wage. but they can still fire you for wanting more money, they just find ways to do it.
2) If poorer people make more money and now make as much as you do, and the cost of living (inflation) does not increase, why do you care?
because the cost of living DOES go up
because if i work longer and harder only for the floor to rise up to me, what is the point of working harder? just keep demanding higher min wages
3) The study is the gold standard in the US on the impacts of minimum wage increases and labor market. How many studies have you mentioned so far? You have only given your opinion
feels more to appeal to authority more than having anything of substance brought to this discussion.
"immigration and the mw aren't related in the US"
I mean, everything is related, but ok dude
"Not to mention immigration's impact on deflating wages is minimal"
fucking laughable bullshit
"benefit to the economy as a whole."
nonsense
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@Mezzo396
goddamn
1)" A 2010 study by Dube, Lester and Reich examined border counties on all instances nationwide where states raised MW. They found no evidence of detrimental effects on low-wage employment. This study is considered to be one of the gold standard studies for the sheer breadth of data it analyzes."
how is examining border countries going to give you data nationwide? I fail to see how increasing the supply of low wage workers has no effect on low wage jobs. feels like a source rebutting an argument im not making?
Overall, the evidence is strong that increasing the minimum wage (at current and historical minimum wage levels) leads to increases in incomes for low-wage workers.
sounds like magical bullshit.
2) "Look up marginal tax rates. Increased wages amongst low income earners isnt offset by the increase in taxation, they are still taking home a larger pay/additional hours."
again, not rebutting anything i said
3) "This argument doesnt make sense really - you have a ideologies that fall along a spectrum. Some believe in greater government action for the benefit of people, some don't. No one wants this for the sake of being dependent on government, they believe its a neccessity to protect the role of labor versus capital in an economy. Not sure why you mention stagflation, inflation in the US has remained below the targeted rate for decades. Wage stagnation is a real and isn't solved by giving capital owners larger tax breaks and deregulating labor standards.
?????????
4) "Unions are the only way for labor to organize and demand concessions from capital."
no
"Give me an alternative example of how labor can negotiate anything substantial if it isn't organized"
" i want X for my labor, no? im leaving."
"Employers hold massive power over individual workers in the US. Complaining about unions being corrupt is asinine, are you actually going to pretend big capital isnt corrupt? "
This isnt changing my point, or my mind on the subject. but go off some more
"If ALL systems have levels of corruption why does it matter, I'd rather have a system that is designed for the purpose of bargaining better wages and benefits from my corporate master."
Except because they are corrupted they dont do that and only serve global masters, and corporates masters....
6) "Corporations are far more corrupt and powerful than unions in the US."
Laughable assumption thanks though
"Except corporations are legally required to prioritize shareholder value, and I as an employee 0 power alone in negotiating concessions as a result"
This has nothing to do with the discussion whatseover
"Who cares if my union boss peddles a union job to his son if my CEO peddles a company to job his as well"
its the same thing? and i dont have to pay to be in a corrupt union? its like you ignore what i stated, and made arguments for things im not saying to prove a point or something,.
"The difference is the CEO is looking to lower my wage to boost his profit while my elected union boss has to deliver something."
The union boss doesnt have to deliver anything. its like you arent payin attention
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@jasonx7501 hey buddy, no one is buying your bullshit.
"Aside from the obvious plus of all bottom earners being able to afford to live, more money in more hands means more goods and services being purchased, thus driving commerce."
This is circular reasoning my dude, they dont get more money, it raises the ceiling so the government can collect more in taxes. " afford to live" while rent and property values continue to skyrocket, and the government allowed millions and millions of more people to pour into the country flooding the labor market, and artificially inflating the cost of living. Goods and services will cost more as an end result, no one gets ahead, and more people are pulled onto the floor.
"A higher minimum wage lowers the tax burden on everyone"
No, this means the government collects more in taxes, because thats how percentages work...
"since minimum wage today is such a joke, most people that work these jobs require government assistance just to get by."
And the reason for this is the government wants more people to be on the public dole..
all you are doing is increasing the number of people on minimum wage while doing nothing to address the problems of wage stagflation or artificially high cost of living..... it just makes more poor people
"Of coarse, the minimum wage issue in the US wouldn't be an issue if there wasn't such strong anti-union practices"
Unions are shit, and are a cancer to the labor industry. they are filled with cronies and corrupt individuals, that drags the entire union behind them and vote for terrible policies and vote for terrible politicians
"Labor unions are great in that they give workers more power to negotiate wages with companies and find a balance with their needs and the financial needs of the company."
Except they dont actually DO that. Its all a crony scam, just like government jobs. they gatekeep who runs unions, they gatekeep jobs, they even keep terrible employees because of nepotism and corruption, just look at the teachers unions ffs, im sure some are ok, but the vast majority are just as broken and corrupt as the governments they pander to...
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Jayanga S no i dont listen to the MSM, that doesnt negate the effects of propaganda and lies... stop pretending that it isnt an issue by being dishonest about it.
"baby making is a physical process, nothing prevents you to do it"
Yes but propaganda affects everyone else, raising children costs money, and with endless leg ups for non whites, it puts whites at a distinct disadvantage, ( they pay for it all via taxation whether we want to or not)
A very small fraction of each group commit crimes, you use it as an excuse to call everyone a danger out to get you.
FBI crime stats and interracial offences disagree with your assertion.
"this is going to end violently", there goes your actual intentions.
Jesus christ dude, me pointing out the inevitable doesnt mean i want it.. you think i want more bloodshed? more innocent lives lost for nothing? you assuming this of me reveals YOUR intentions...
I'm not sure what you mean by mass repatriation.
if you dont know what the word repatriation means, you are not educated enough on the topics to continue arguing with people here...
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@Betta66
"That's kind of what I've been saying forever, but clearly having quick and easy access to all of human information hasn't stopped anyone, as evidenced by the fact that some people think windmills cause cancer."
cool, so does that make me less wrong? no...
https://legiscan.com/AL/bill/SB269/2018
https://legiscan.com/AL/bill/SB140/2019
I mean i found them on my own, but thanks
"No, that's advocating for minding your own damn business. If someone got lung cancer from secondhand smoke, would you tell them they shouldn't get treatment because they need to deal with the consequences of their actions?"
Getting lung cancer from smoking and getting treatment because lung cancer will kill you is the same as killing an unborn infant because you dont want them? not even close to the same thing familam...
"I shouldn't have to explain this to someone who thinks fetuses can talk."
What? so because a fetus cant talk means it isnt taking a life? kind of a retarded argument, but aight
"PROJECTION"
"Yes, that's exactly what you were doing."
" "
"All of this just falls under things that qualify as health risks to the unborn child and/or the unborn child's mother. If an exception was made for rape, then it would at least be a more consistent bill because rape and health risks are beyond a person's control. Incest, though? By your own words, people should deal with the consequences of their actions. Unless a woman got raped by her uncle or something, I would suspect you would still disapprove of her decision to get an abortion."
I mean my default assumption that incest isnt something done intentionally if it isnt rape. (IE they didnt know, seperated families and whatnot) but yeah, sounds like theres a hint of agreement somewhere? or at the very least an understanding that theres some consistency with my opinions?
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@Betta66
Thought you were pullin my leg when they compared the holocaust to abortions, so i looked up the full text of the bill myself, and there it was.
2. I agree that parents should talk to their kids about sex, but expecting parents to know everything about every topic is unrealistic.
No, thats a copout... understanding sex and disease is so fucking easy today that there is no excuse for not looking these things up..
3. The one from last year was Alabama SB 269, and the one from last month was Alabama SB 140.
Ok? i mean you could have linked the relevant bills but ok
4. "No, what YOU are saying is, women have no control over their lives and need the government to handhold them through their entire lives so they don't have to own up to the responsibility of the actions they have taken.... i cant imagine how this would backfire...
"
"I'm not advocating for government handholding. It's easy to say women shouldn't have sex if they don't want to get pregnant, and that's true, but what I'm advocating is that women not be stigmatized into keeping an unwanted child. "
This is LITERALLY advocating for not wanting to deal with the consequences of their actions.....
"If you don't approve of abortion, no one is forcing you to get one. And besides, don't conservatives go on and on about how they won't stand for liberals telling them what to do or whatever? Like, your whole thing with the mainstream media is that they try to tell people what to think. How the hell is forcing pro-life legislation onto everyone (when you yourself will never be personally affected by it) any better than "government handholding"?"
because murder is illegal and this isnt an argument anyone is having right now? like, how is " you cant murder unborn children" " telling people what to do" in any meaningful distinction from telling people they cant murder people?
5. "You are arguing against a caricature because you don't want to have a legitimate discussion, because you are a smug ideologue."
"You took the words right out of my mouth.
"
P R O J E C T I O N
"The use ..... any other substance or device with the intent to terminate the pregnancy ........... The term does not include these activities if done with the intent to save the life or preserve the health of an unborn child, remove a dead unborn child, to deliver the unborn child prematurely to avoid a serious health risk to the unborn child's mother, or to preserve the health of her unborn child. The term does not include a procedure or act to terminate the pregnancy of a woman with an ectopic pregnancy, nor does it include the procedure or act to terminate the pregnancy of a woman when the unborn child has a lethal anomaly"
Interesting that they made a whole lot of exceptions but excluded rape and incest. Suppose an incest and rape exception is also made, would this not be a much better bill?
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@Betta66
ugh
"If killing someone is justified if it's in self defense, then it must also be the case that aborting a baby is justified for the sake of a medical emergency, yes?
Sure, in the vast minority of cases this is the case... and also why there are exceptions.
"And indeed, the Alabama abortion law says exceptions would be made to the ban in cases where it prevents a serious health risk to the mother. However, women can still get abortions and those who have appointments can still go forward with the procedure.
The difference is that abortion doctors would be charged with a felony for performing (or even attempting) the procedure."
No, this is incorrect. please show me in the law where it says this
"Oh, also, you know comprehensive sex education? The thing that's been proven to help lower teen pregnancy rates, which is the kind of thing for which someone would want to get an abortion?"
so we need the state to teach kids instead of parents. got it
"Alabama doesn't have that, which explains why it has some of the highest teen pregnancy and STI rates in the country. Senator Tom Whatley introduced a sex education bill just last year, and it would've been good for the state to have if it didn't die."
Again, why have we fallen so far as a people that we now need the government to teach people how sex, pregnancy and spreading of disease... If only parents could do their jobs...
"He reintroduced it last month, and it passed the state Senate, but what does it say about Alabama's priorities that they signed into law a bill that makes it a felony to perform abortions before signing into law a bill that would've solved a contributing factor to abortion?"
i mean you could cite the law...
"Also, another reason for women getting abortions is that they can't afford to raise a child."
then dont have sex
"Alabama is the sixth poorest state in the country with over 800,000 residents living below the poverty line. That's 17.2%, compared to the national average of 14%."
That sucks, doesnt mean you cant raise and care for children
"So basically, what Alabama is doing is telling women "You can't get rid of an unwanted child you can't afford to raise if you don't want your doctor to get charged with a felony. You can take birth control or have your partner use a condom, but birth control pills might not work if you're also taking antibiotics and condoms have to be used properly to avoid breaking. Oh, but you wouldn't know any of that since we don't make comprehensive sex ed mandatory. But hey, maybe we'll make an exception if your life literally depends on it. Good luck."
"
No, what YOU are saying is, women have no control over their lives and need the government to handhold them through their entire lives so they dont have to own up to the responsibility of the actions they have taken.... i cant imagine how this would backfire...
Seems like kind of a mixed message is all I'm saying.
Seems like you are arguing against a caricature because you dont want to have a legitimate discussion, because you are a smug ideologue
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@GodOfOrphans
"Dude I understand your argument I just fundamentally and irrevocably disagree with it, alright, disagreement does not mean I don't get it. Learn the difference!
Buddy, if you just " disagreed" it would be one thing, but you arent even comprehending what im saying, and then telling me in wrong
"That said it's clear that you don't even understand my position given how you haven't made a single reply that isn't full of ad hominems and misrepresentations."
This is hilarious at this point. its pure projection, and its why i still bother replying...
"I doubt you'd agree regardless but it's clear that you don't even understand it."
Yeah, thats it, its not you not grasping what im telling you, then arguing with based off of a lack of understanding of what i said in the first place is a great way to establish how well understood something is
"I'm pretty much out of ideas as to how to rephrase it and it's doubtful it would matter even if I did, on account of your willfull ignorance."
Cool, maybe grasp what IM telling you so we can go somewhere with this
"Now will you just piss off?! I've got more important things to do than argue with an idiot all day!"
No you dont
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@GodOfOrphans
"Why do I need to rationalize anything you just said, when everything you said is just wrong?!"
Well, this would mean you would actually have to understand and think about what ive said instead of just saying no you are wrong
"I've tried rephrasing things so many different ways and you still don't get it which again I can only really chalk up to willfull ignorance or total ideological possession at this point, garden variety stupididy is rarely if ever this stubborn. I was hoping that at the very least I could achieve some level of mutual understanding, agreement was never an option but hopefully I could at least achieve understanding."
LOL this is because you arent even understanding what im saying to you.
"Look for a bit of clarification I'm not saying all identitarianism is marxist, what I am saying is that identitarianism and marxism both spring from the same rotten root framework of authoritarian collectivism okay, got that?"
No, the didnt, and YOU dont get it.
"So while they aren't the same they are similar in key ways because they both spring from authoritarian collectivism. Is that clear enough for you?!"
No, because saying something doesnt make it true. you are literally letting marxism control how you even talk about the issues. "identitarianism is from the same root as marxism" no its not.
"Your entire argument comes from a false dichotomy framework, eveything that disagrees with you is either marxism or people brainwashed by marxist psy ops."
Yeah unless the thing we are disagreeing on is directly related to marxist propaganda, but go off some more about something you are clearly not grasping. The fact that you think identitarianisms roots is is authoritative collectivist behavior strange
"You know what it's called when you mislabel people into a position they don't actually hold? It's called Strawmanning you dumbass! You're also trying to force things into overly rigid labels which is pigeonholing"
wow so telling me im arguing the same things as marxists is strawmaninng wonderful. stop doing it and try actually grasping what im trying to articulate to you instead of triple and quadrupling down on your individualism
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@GodOfOrphans
"The hostility is because you fucking poisoned the well right out of the gate by insulting me, you think I'm just supposed to take that lying down?"
Didn't poison the well, and im pretty sure you are just throwing shit out to see if ill call you out on it
"What the fuck is wrong with you?! You then continued the insults civcvck, brainwashed, various insults to my intelligence, general condescending tone etc. so of course I'm going to bite back with hostility to reflect what has been shown to me"
I mean thats what you are. im trying to explain things to you and it goes right over your head...
"I don't believe in the sort of RINOcvck lose gracefully crap."
You believe in the " we can just change peoples minds" and " demographic change isnt going to affect the country"
"Civility is nice but it only works when all parties agree to and strictly adhere to it, once it's broken all bets are off."
Right, so when millions and millions of foreigners flood into the nation without being asked, rule of law and civility can go out the window? great, when can we sign you up for removal squads?
"Trying to still be civil when the other interlocutors have no interest in doing so doesn't work it just makes one look weak and lose face"
Maybe be less obtuse, and angry?
"I assure the self reflection is there I actually self reflect before during and after each post. In fact I do it pretty much 24/7 and not always deliberately, there's just no off button to my thoughts, I'm always self evaluating. It doesn't come across in text because doing so is a sign of weakness, one needs to project confidence at all times in an argument or lose face."
wow
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@GodOfOrphans
"If you don't like me repeatedly calling out your strawmanning than stop fucking strawmanning, make repetitive arguments get repettitive replys it's not that complicated! "
Look dude, im not strawmanning you. ive repeatedly explained how im not strawmanning you. fcking stop
"Uhh me opening with an insult and having a dialogue is different" so you admit to opening with an insult, and then say it's different when you do it yeah sure, whatever, fucking hypocrite."
A sarcastic internet joke to entice you to reply totally didnt do exactly what it was intended to do? stop dude, you think too highly of yourself
"Further context doesn't make it any better either as your premise is fundamentally broken, it is fundamentally an it's okay when I do it argument and there's no coming back from that."
Its not, an opening move to draw in replies is being compared to repeated and angry insults endlessly as the conversation continues cmon dude be real...
"Here's the problem with your constant assertion that I'm "ceding ground" or "letting the enemy define rules of engagement" fundamentally if I do ANYTHING as a reaction to what they do other than agree with your white identitarianism I'm "ceding ground" so you're essentially trying to trap me using a kind of motte and bailey fallacy"
Because you are living inside this false worldview that identitatinism = marxism. THAT is my point, you dont even have to agree with white identitarinaism, you just need to admit that you are functioning within this marxist worldview without even seeing it
"You take the fact that I hate the globalist commies, (motte) and then say if I want to not be a cVck to those commies I must become a white racial identitarian (bailey)"
No, this is you fundamentally not understanding what is being told to you.
"I fundamentally reject that entire argument"
Its funny because thats not the argument im making
"there are ways to fight this evil without resorting to more identitarianism."
and here we circle back to the point you cant grasp... any identiratiasm = marxism to you. this is the marxist fundamentally changing your worldview and acting inside fo it. you still cant see it and you are getting more irrationally angry about an argument on the internet
"Moreover I feel that they've been boogeymanning whitey in the hopes of essentially having people radicalize along racial identitarian lines out of spite for them. So that they can then use the newly radicalised opposition as justification to the masses to start wholesale open genocide and persecution of political dissidents, and I'm talking gulags not just deplatforming"
and MY point is THAT IS COMING REAGARDLESS... this is the part you arent getting. you seem to think by not using any identitarinasim and stacking to individualism and ideology is the solution, but that is unironically been the status quo for decades and it hasnt worked. South African farmers is the future in the US and the rest of the anglosphere
"That's what I mean when I say it will backfire, and that it is playing into the enemies hands"
He says while continuing the path that has led to the enemies grown this strong over recent decades...
"To go back a bit and elaborate further on why I just reject the argument itself, it's also false choice/false dichotomy it doesn't acknowledge the possibility of other solutions"
Its not a false dichotomy, but you cant grasp that
"The reason I relate it to having the same energy so to speak as the wokists is I have legitimately seen Marxist use the same false dichotomy motte and bailey to try and psychologically trap people into agreeing with communism"
Thats not what im doing
"What they'll do is they'll say some kind of no shit sherlock flaw with capitalism or just say it isn't perfect, something everyone can agree on for the most part, (motte) and then say if you want to fix it the only solution is Communism (bailey), while rejecting any attempts at alternative solutions or pointing out obvious flaws with communism and how it doesn't actually work to preserve the false choice framing"
Dude, you arent even grasping what im telling you
"They also do the same argument with race relations and other idpol stuff too, "If you don't want to be racist you must support CRT" that sort of thing"
No, again you arent grasping what im telling you
"Also the fact that modern communism has basically become identitarian and your postion is identitarian, that's the other reason I say they have the same energy."
And we circle RIGHT back to the point i made in the beginning that you FAIL to see...
"To try and give a TL;DR for this it would be, I reject being pigeonholed and any such arguments that try and do so as well as all forms of identitarian collectivism, doesn't matter who from or for what reason."
You not getting the argument isnt being pigeon holed dude... stop
"If nothing else I hope this properly articulates my position and why I take issue with yours as well as the framing of your argument."
It has become abundantly clear you have zero desire to rationalize anything i have said
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@GodOfOrphans "You're ones who have completely given up the dream of a free society, the dream of Western Civilization, you're trying to fight their communist ethnonationilism with more ethnonationalism and it won't work it will implode probably take a chunk out of our movement with it and give the enemy a free ammo resupply."
dude are you even listening to yourself? you need some help, let me help you
"nation (n.)
c. 1300, nacioun, "a race of people, large group of people with common ancestry and language," from Old French nacion "birth, rank; descendants, relatives; country, homeland" (12c.) and directly from Latin nationem (nominative natio) "birth, origin; breed, stock, kind, species; race of people, tribe," literally "that which has been born," from natus, past participle of nasci "be born" (Old Latin gnasci), from PIE root *gene- "give birth, beget," with derivatives referring to procreation and familial and tribal groups.
The word is used in English in a broad sense, "a race of people an aggregation of persons of the same ethnic family and speaking the same language," and also in the narrower sense, "a political society composed of a government and subjects or citizens and constituting a political unit; an organized community inhabiting a defined territory within which its sovereignty is exercised."
In Middle English it is not easy to distinguish them, but the "political society" sense emerged by 16c., perhaps late 14c. and it has gradually predominated. The older sense is preserved in the application of nation to the native North American peoples (1640s). Nation-building "creation of a new nation" is attested by 1907 (implied in nation-builder). Nation-state "sovereign country the inhabitants of which are united by language, culture, and common descent" is from 1918."
so you are saying ethnonationalism, but what you are effectively saying is national nationalism... which is redundant, and completely opposite of the " commies" which would be global communists. these are the no borders types of people... these are not ethnonats. the ethnic grouping of commies has more to do with the anti white nature of the discussion than it does " racial nationalism" of non whites
"You are the ones who are feeding into the enemy and you are too ideologically possessed and just plain dumb to see it!"
the irony is so think, i can taste
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@GodOfOrphans
"I can boil that entire tirade of yours down to one word it's so deluded, STRAWMAN"
Yeah, i mean nothing like calling my response a thing, then thats it. defeated. owned, crushed..... except its not, and repeating it over and over again doesnt change that
"You don't actually understand any of what I actually believe and have actually been trying to convey so you just label me a wokists because it's easier to believe anyone who disagrees with your my way or the highway/if you aren't with us you're against us dogmatic dogshit is some kind of leftist ideologue than the simple truth that people can disagree with you and not be Marxists, more than that people can disagree with you and hate Marxists more than anything else"
First off, you need to work on your run on sentences, it makes it really annoying to read. Secondly, im not labeling you wokest (marxists), that would be a strawman, im saying you are fighting a battle using the rules laid out by the wokests (marxists), and you sit there and tell me thats not what you are doing, then you explain what you are doing, and its a roundabout way to just say what i said. When you allow them (marxists) to control the rules of engagement through propaganda, that is exactly what is going on. a distortion of your own thoughts based on the indoctrination of others. your mental gymnastics are pretty great.
"I can believe I'm possibly doing a poor job conveying things but the level of ignorance and misrepresentation you display can only be achieved willfully. So even I was the most articulate person around it wouldn't mean shit on account of your willfull ignorance and need to bully people into agreeing with you, which never works btw that just makes people dig in their heels and outright ignore anything they might actually agree on out of anger, if you knew anything about human nature you would understand this!"
This is a long winded run on sentence that basically says " im right you are wrong, i cant believe you cant see this you are dumb"
"if you knew anything about human nature you would understand this"
Ironic
"Blatant double standard on your part as when I call you out for saying stupid shit and misrepresenting me you get all offended and such but apparrently I'm not allowed to do the same, blatant shameless hypocrisy at it's finest on display
Uhh me opening with an insult and having a dialogue is different than repeatedly adhomming, insulting, and denigrating the intelligence of the other person.. but go off champ, im enjoying this
"Civil discourse is also part of internet culture there's no rule that says things must devolve into pissing matches, this thread was civil despite disagreement until you came along and derailed it."
No, not really
"you dont have to say that, i can infer that by reading your responses" Oh so you're a mind reader now are you. You are the arbiter of intent and free will be damned./sarcasm.
LOL or i can read, and understand context clues, but yeah im " reading your mind" by making assumptions of your thought process based on the way you talk and what you say, thats crazy talk.... wow dude
"You do not decide what my intentions and thought processees are you subhuman, gaslighting troglodyte, take you god complex and shove it"
L O L !
"The common enemy is wokists you imbecile! I've said as much how many times now?"
Yeah and how many times have i articulated that you are ceding ground to them by having dialogue based on reactions that their propaganda has. literally the thing ive said repeatedly over and over again that you deny, then explains it in a roundabout way, that effectively is what i said but with more words...
"I've known literal t*rds that are quicker on the uptake and with better info retention than you, that's not a joke or an empty insult either, I'm being completely literal and completely serious."
Again the irony is not lost on me
"Why are you wasting so much energy fighting libertarians instead of the commie vermin who as you say want to exterminate you and your entire race"
because lolbertarians are why we have commies in the first place dude, thats what i keep trying to tell you, but you just mental gymnastics your way out of coherent thoughts....
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@GodOfOrphans
"Restating an argument in t**d speak like that is mocking the speaker not just the argument"
Well because its so obviously apparent that both need to be mocked, because you keep proving my point..
"ergo yes you did enter the conversation in bad faith right from the start"
I strongly disagree
"you do not get to retroactively claim otherwise, that's gaslighting."
No, but thanks
"I can't even give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you didn't know any better because that's one of the most banal and obvious forms of mockery around, children do that to mock each other without ever needing to be taught it it's so obvious, if you are really so ignorant as to not understand that, then how in the hell do you function in society at all.
Mocking strangers on the internet is just part of internet culture. you say something stupid, you get called out for it being stupid. dont sit there and act offended by it
"I'm not the one denying the reality of human nature, that's you."
Ironic and wonderfully placed " NO U"
"Tribalism is more than just race the fact that we are even having such an intense argument right now is even evidence of this because our philosophies differ so strongly that even though we presumably have race as a commonality we are still at each others throats, we are not of the same tribe, or how about the self hating W's that we seem to both agree exist, they're not part of either of our tribes despite having race in common."
LMAO for real? i vehemently disagree with large chunks of my family for ideological reasons all the time, this doesnt debunk anything i said whatsoever, we are still of the same tribe, and your argument sounds like reaching...
"I'm saying tribalism is not purely racial, it can have a racial component but race =/= tribe"
Except in 99.99% of cases this is reality. Non related human groups blending and assimilating into other groups does not disprove the existence of both groups as different tribes.
"you say I'm denying nature for pointing the emprically observable and f*ing obvious fact that it is not as simple as race=tribe."
Except its true 99.9% of the time. like the existence of male and female as different groups. pointing out that non binary weirdos and the rest of the alphabet gang exist, doesnt destroy the existence of the two genders that exist... exceptions and rules and whatnot
"Tribe can be based on hobby, identity markers, religion, political affiliation, career, family including found family, etc"
No. Liking television shows, and having the same political affiliation are not like " tribes" extended family, cousins aunts uncles, distant relatives are family and are classified as a tribe... Just because a bunch of random people have a thing in common, doesnt make them a tribe...
"Which tribal affiliation is going to be most salient/most important is going to vary wildly from person to person and even situationally"
Which has what bearing on anything i said? not identifying with your tribe doesnt mean your tribe doesnt exist.
"Of course you just ignore all this easily observable nuance and just go race=tribe, and then project your denial of reality onto me, by strawmanning me AGAIN, saying that somehow my rejection of identity politics means I don't believe in tribalism beacause of post modernism when at no point did I say that, it's also a false dichotomy fallacy by trying to make the two mutually inclusive when they aren't, and throwing in ad hominems calling me brainwashed for good measure, in short your nuance blindness is showing again via a logical fallacy four bagger."
Run on sentence beside the point. you arent making any arguments that debunk anything i said. this is just showing me you have no idea what im talking about. You can hurl logical fallacy accusations at me, but it doesnt change anything i said. You ignore the very real tribal nature of humans ( which are animals by the way) and insist on some understanding that tribes can be anything and have nothing to do with heritage or family. which is clearly incorrect.
my rejection of identity politics means I don't believe in tribalism beacause of post modernism when at no point did I say that"
you dont have to say that, i can infer that by reading your responses
"Now will you just give it a rest, this is tedious, and pointless neither of us will convince the other that's abundantly clear"
said the guy denying reality lol
"I only continue out of obligation as beleive BS ignored is BS spread so I can't leave your nonsense misrepresentations of me unadressed"
Dude what the fck are you talking about. you not understanding what im telling you doesnt make me wrong...
"ignoring the cancer spreading from the univerisities is why we're in this hellworld in the first place after all"
Ironically, if you listened to people like me 30 40 years ago, they dont you this exact thing was going to happen.. almost like what i say has some merit, and weight in the real world... but noooo its just BS and m wrong and mean and racist..
"You're not having any fun, I'm not having any fun, there's nothing for either of us to learn or gain from this anymore"
I mean i have fun talking about sht on YT all th time, sorry its not fun for you
You arent even trying to grasp what im trying to tell you, because you are so far wrapped up in the world created by post modernists, that natural reality is somehow wrong, and anything can be fixed if we just had similar hobbies or believed in the same skydaddy... spoiler, it doesnt work out
"I have more important things to do than continue this excercise in futility and I'd like to think you do as well."
I mean im not ignoring reality, but thats not my problem
"We also still have one common enemy that we hate more than each other at least I would hope and we should be saving our energy for that"
Yeah 100% guarantee its a different enemy than you thin from me. but go on, who is the common enemy?
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@GodOfOrphans
"You are so full of shit. You never bothered with good faith this entire discussion, you entered with mockery, continued with mockery, strawmanned my position repeatedly, rejected my attempts at an olive branch to try and dial back hostility and now you wanna claim good faith, GTF Outta here with that lying BS!"
I mocked the idea that talking about things in racial terms is " bad optics" and began the entire thing. If THATS how " bad faith" is in your mine, you must not have been on the internet very long... I strawmanned NOTHING, i explained how it wasnt a strawman, it was just the inevitable conclusion of your argument. Im sitting here trying to explain to you that the propaganda and brainwashing you talk about happening to the masses, has still effected YOU, and you cant seem to even grasp that concept, and are actively hostile towards me, and projecting it into how im talking to you. you refuse to grasp something im desperately trying to articulate to you in pain english, but you are so far indoctrinated into a certain worldview that we are speaking from two different words.
opening the floodgates for any and all dirty tricks and now you wanna invoke a double standard like your fellow leftist IdPol degenerates,
wtf are you even talking about? its like a bot ate a bunch of leftist buzzwords and tried to speak
"Your racial collectivisation efforts are a suicide mission"
You are literally describing a natural process, and describing it as suicidal You dont even realize it, precisely because you live in another world poisoned by propaganda. In group preference, and tribal nature, are natural functions of all beings. you are actively denying this, and fail to see that, like some post modern thinking, where humans are no longer animals somehow.
"hell you keep saying it's a lost cause to try and convince people with my far less extreme position"
because the same propaganda and brainwashing is still in you
"political demographic data.
ya really wanna go down that route? that one explicitly proves my point literally for decades, and your argument is " if we can convince a few more people" that the percentages will rise enough to matter.... it wont.
"But hey you can look forward to an eternity of I told you sos in Hell so at least there's that."
The most glorious irony here is knowing how many " i told you sos" I will be saying in another 30 years. I dont have to lift a finger, because i know exactly what's going to happen, because im not the one denying the reality of nature...
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@Betta66 wow, literal lack of self awareness personified.
here let me spoon feed (you)
In 1866, Senator Jacob Howard clearly spelled out the intent of the 14th Amendment by stating:
"Every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons. It settles the great question of citizenship and removes all doubt as to what persons are or are not citizens of the United States. This has long been a great desideratum in the jurisprudence and legislation of this country."
This understanding was reaffirmed by Senator Edward Cowan, who stated:
"[A foreigner in the United States] has a right to the protection of the laws; but he is not a citizen in the ordinary acceptance of the word..."
The phrase "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" was intended to exclude American-born persons from automatic citizenship whose allegiance to the United States was not complete. With illegal aliens who are unlawfully in the United States, their native country has a claim of allegiance on the child. Thus, the completeness of their allegiance to the United States is impaired, which therefore precludes automatic citizenship.
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@Betta66 I went to school with a few Hispanic students. I had a Spanish professor in college who was born in Spain. My dad lived in a city with a moderately sized Hispanic community for most of this decade. I bring that up because when you say Spanish speakers don't assimilate, I'm left to wonder if you've actually met one of them. Or if you know that the United States doesn't have an official language. What, are you going to bitch about the epidemic of Japanese invaders every time you go out for sushi? I don't want to be so cocky as to jump to conclusions like you do and say you're more delusional than I am. I can understand if you have a differing view on immigration, but if the option of pressing 2 for Spanish on a phone call, DON'T FUCKING PRESS IT!! How much tin foil do you choke on daily that you think this is the worst thing about illegal immigration?
Whew, you sure got mad... so why do we have all these immigrants? if they assimilate, they should all be speaking english after a few generations... Or are you gonna pretend that the irish, french, dutch, italian, german, immigrants learn english? Japanese? why does that matter? Japanese americians lean english too lmao, maybe we shouldnt be letting in millions and millions of south americians every fuckin year...Sounds like if you dont speak the language of the locals you havent really assimilated.....
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@Betta66 no... they broke the law, and invaded my borders. they are an invasion..
in·va·sion
/inˈvāZHən/
noun
-an instance of invading a country or region with an armed force.
-an incursion by a large number of people or things into a place or sphere of activity.
-an unwelcome intrusion into another's domain.
hits 2 of three so you tell me what is and isnt an invasion based on your personal opinion all you want, it aint true...
"They should ideally be crossing legally, I will agree, but these aren't Spanish conquistadors trying to convert the entire population to their way of life or the aliens from Independence Day blowing up landmarks. If it ever gets to that point, I will reconsider. For now, they're crossing the border illegally, but that is not inherently a violent crime."
more apologist rhetoric...
They come in, they do not assimilate, this is why we have press 1 for english press 2 for spanish all over most of the country... jesus christ, you are either severely delusional, or you actually get paid for this nonesense
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@ruckerrc6982
"Again you argument is with the leaders the majority of whites are electing to represent them, blaming minorities for the actions of those leaders is ineffective at best."
i mean we can A. look at voting data for decades that illustrate a clear difference in voting, and B we can assume the people of the US have zero control over their governing bodies for decades...
"Whites have been around for a long time so I don't think they are going anywhere"
Uh huh, yeah, so why are they projected to be minorities everywhere they exist in a few decades time? constant anti white hatred is now a mainstay of public discourse, entertainment, and anything pro anything even remotely white is demonize
"This is more about power and controlling their fate as a people"
Leads to the question of Who is making these decisions and who is in charge? certainty not whites
"Minorities are doing what they are suppose to be doing living life."
No, they are swarming into white nations and transforming them from majority white to minority white by the mere fact of existing in the same land space.....
"If whites chose not to have babies, chase money, or have wars where millions of their people die against each other like in WW2, How is it the fault of the 3rd worlders if they keep having babies and don't kill each other in world wars?"
white ARE having babies, the problem is everyone else is having exponentially MORE than whites... but that would mean you would have to grasp the concept im trying to articulate, which you are clearly not... who was behind both world wars? who was behind the mass migration of third worlders into white nations? no one asked for this, so why do we now have to act like third worlders in our own lands? breeding with zero consequences because the sate takes care of it? cmon dude
"Also I agree that a group or race starts a culture but they don't get to keep it to themselves."
So in proving my point you also fail to grasp it. you change the people you change the culture, there is no exceptions...
"Race and culture are not the same thing. A Chinese guy can be raised as an American in American culture his entire life. If you dropped him into China what would you have. An American in China."
this is laughably naive and assumes assimilation... but clearly you dont get that when the majority of the country is no longer white...
"I don't make the rules but history is quite clear that culture mix, grow and change overtime. That can't be stopped it is the way of the world."
This literally has ZERO to do with my point... if you CHANGE THE POEPLE YOU CHANGE THE CULTURE.... stop pretending that any of this is fcking normal dude
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@jon-erich9752
"Let's break this down"
oh boy!
"First with the anti-white propaganda. Most normies don't believe any of it."
i mean seems like a generalization to me, most people ive met are on some level buying onto the propaganda...
"Most people in general don't believe it. We've seen it too many times across all forms of media. Whenever a companies embraces wokeness, people turn away. "
I mean what you see is the people who do most of the working and spending turn away
"Only a small minority of people actually believe that shit but companies and corporations listen to them because they happen to be a loud vocal minority.
or because it is beneficial to the corporations do act in such a way
"This was actually scientifically proven btw.
"
Ok, " science" please
"Second, most people in general already have multiple sex partners by high school. Millennials and Gen Z in general have had far fewer sexual partners than previous generations. "
This doesnt undo the decades and decades of promiscuity plastered all over the country and this doesnt fix those already older
"Gen X and the Boomers were getting laid in their younger years a lot more and yet they never had issues being in a relationship.
"
" having sex" and " being in a relationship" dont mean anything when you go through 4 or five before you even start to think about settling down. again, the damage is already done
"Third, the majority of people on welfare are white so that wouldn't stop white people from popping out babies.
"
Most people in the country are still white...
According to population size, immigrants and non whites use welfare and social services and such at higher rates.
"Finally, my point still stands. A lot of these people are basically just like the SJWs they like to make fun of so much. They portray themselves as victims and then try to blame everyone else for their own shortcomings."
generalizations again? are you listening to what they say? or are you just dismissing it and then insulting them
"They also make no attempt at self-improvement. "
who?
"That's a turnoff to women. Women don't like pussy men. "
I guess years and years of " men need to be emotional too" and " women love nice guys" actually meant nothing because we all already knew what they wanted, but being told otherwise fucks with them
"While I'm sure not all of them are part of the Alt-Right"
literally a meme... anything right of center at this point is either nazi or alt right
"for those who are, they're screwing themselves over. Just by aligning yourself with that ideology, you eliminate 95% of the dating pool."
can you even describe the ideology? or is it just what you have been told what it is?
Even some women who agree with the ideology don't want the baggage that comes with being with someone from the Alt-Right.
"If you're someone who constantly blames all of your hardship on the Jews, you may have a chance of dating one of the leaders of the Women's March, but most real women wouldn't want to have anything to do with you."
" muh its da joos" meme seriously, if you want to pretend that the level of influence that the state of isreal has in the united states is astonishing... clearly you dont know much about the state of the world if you just dismiss everything as " blaming da joos"
"Then there's personality, character and other traits. For most of these lonely men, what are they like? Do they have unique personalities or talents? What makes them indistinguishable? They all sound like the same fucking person using the same tired insults and catchphrases. They have no personality of their own."
Sounds like you have this neat idea of what ( alt right) is and you can use it to paint over them without actually addressing anything they talk about.
"If they're anything like this in real life, do they really have a right to blame a woman who doesn't want to date them?"
Here you imply they are even going to be in the presence of women in the first place. Why would someone who doesnt like sexual promiscuity, doesnt like propaganda, and doesnt like partying ever find women?
sounds to me like you have this caricature of " alt right" thats been condensed down to a meme, and then because its basically a meme, you buy into it wholesale
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@earlwarner4404
so instead of doing what i asked, you give me a meme answer...
well lets see, first link was garbage, second link was a " science" link with 2 meaningful points. "advantage desert soil has lots of nutrients from lack of rain which makes for good agriculture provided adequate irrigation" immediately followed by " disadvantage lack of rainfall and extreme weather " so seems like a net loss by the fact that you would have to artificially modify the environment to gain benefit from it
next was " Less Stress, Healthy Activities, Lower Blood Pressure, Stronger Bones, Improved Mobility and Less Joint Pain, Better Air Quality, Positive Mental Outlook
I mean pretty sure you could get most of those with an area that ISNT a desert, but in other rural dry areas that ARENT deserts
the rest of the links we sort of opinion tabloid level garbage either saying stuff like " it looks pretty" or " uh there are some health benefits like sunlight and fresh air" or " your in the middle of nowhere so its peaceful"
there was one sorta interesting one detailing benefits to archeology, but other than that, and a preservation of plant and animal life in an ecosystem, i dont see much. you could have literally typed a fraction of any of that, and provided more than enough of an answer, but you decided not to for some reason... No one is saying to eradicate all deserts, but if you already have to modify the environment to make it more habitable, how is doing more of the same much different?
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@Robby_C
"we don't need a new foundation though. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with how the house is build, the issue is that the current occupants spend all their time throwing bricks through the windows and calling it remodeling."
Well thats if you ignore the cracks in the foundation. Such as the level of corruption in the highest levels of education, government, industry, and finance. Such as the idea that " we are all equal" ( my 'edgy"points). And a sickening level of self hatred for a vast majority of Americans.
Theres some serious problems, the idiots throwing bricks are just puppets of the people trying to destroy the house so they can sell it off after buying it cheap.
"You seem to think using tact in dialogue is some sort of deflection move, when in reality it is an attempt to inform people of the important information without smashing them over the head with rhetoric that comes off as racist in their blue-pilled minds."
Well my point was, treating the conversation like you have to walk on eggshells trying to approach it is exactly what i mean by you cant talk about it. If you have to dress it up this much its not really dealing with it. which was what im getting at.
"I was referring to people who are on the currently waking up to the fact that the government and media are full of shit., and youre right, they have had blue pills shoved up their ass for decades, thats my entire point. they have just started dipping their toe in the water, and the race realism conversation is like shoving them into the pool with weights on.
"
I think a pool analogy is actually pretty useful here. Sure, its better to ease people into the water having never learned to swim, but im of the sink or swim camp. Chuck you in, and you'll figure it out, because you have to figure it out. Its not exactly like we have tons of time, this is an old, old set of plans that these governments have been running on, and were fast approaching a point of no return.
I guess i dont know what you mean by "cant have the conversation" then... do you mean on YouTube or on TV?
Well considering how censored everything is on the internet, and people shouting " sources" while tech giants actively remove such things, sort of gives me the vibe of " time is not on your side here"
because I am talking about one on one interactions
This is the problem, much of this is now done online, and is looking like to be an increasing amount of public discourse, personal, and groups, will all be online.
There are those that can see
There are those who can be taught to see
There are those who will never see
Theres no point trying to convince the third group, they are lost.
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@Robby_C I understand the effort. I do, but all you have shown me is you actively avoid the very topics i brought up while telling me you dont. Im not leading with " BrOwN PeOpLe Ar R TaRdEd" im merely pointing out that avoiding the topics isnt going to bring any discourse on them to address them. it just keeps getting ignored and pushed off because its an uncomfortable topic. You cant get better if you only deal with the symptoms.
"But what ever bro. Your just too based for me to handle. So edgy and educated... Jesus... I’m talking about political strategy and your bitching cuz you don’t understand why people find if unpalatable to lead a conversation racial IQ disparities"
You are optics kucking. you avoid the uncomfortable questions because its a safer choice. And your visceral disgust with it is sort of proving my point. Im not running out of the gate screeching it like some kind of spaz, im just repeating over and over, if you dont talk about it, you cant do anything about it. and you just keep circling back to ' you cant lead with it"
"you are trying to get people who have only taken about 5mg of redpill to rail a 100mg line of. "
Buddy those types of people have never had any redpill anything, and have had softball sized bluepill suppositories shoved up their ass for decades...
"You can’t take people who are at stage one or two and bulldoze them with some stage twelve shit. that is all I’m saying. That doesn’t mean the conversation can’t be had, it just means you need to get to that conversation without also trying to be edgy and cool."
Right, but lets say the whole scenario is rebuilding a home, and the topics i am talking about make up the tearing down the old house, tearing up the and foundation, and laying a new foundation to lay the groundwork. You on the other hand just want to remodel to make it nice and easy for the" buyer" youll fix up most of the things like the utilities, hole in a wall, and the windows, but the foundation is rotten, and the frame is junk, and the house will not stand up very long
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@Alex_Plante
Yes, humans are tribal, but we also have the ability to be transactional, and in large modern cities we tend to operate in a transactional, not a tribal mode.
So when groups of people self segregate, which they tend to do, you end up with cliques of those with similarities, i mean sweden has literal no go zones at this point, so forgive me if i disregard
Cultures and mannerism are learned from parents and peers from an early age.
So in it of itself, culture and mannerisms are genetic, because of the nature of their exposure and learned behavior being related to those that are around them, eventually leading to self segregated areas
As to the IQ gap, I suspect that pre-natal and infant nutrition as well as priming in school are major factors.
And yet the gap still exists in the US after decades of affirmative action and school programs... we are literally changing standards in schools for diversity and such nonesense
The kind of multiple choice questions asked on IQ tests are not natural, and you need to be primed at an early age to successfully respond to those types of tests.
Primed for an IQ test? there isnt " success" or " passing" an IQ test, its to evaluate your level of intelligence... " some people just dont know how to take this test" is a cop out and doesnt explain anything
Also in impoverished nations many people are both physically and mentally stunted by malnutrition and disease.
And yet, in the US with all the programs we have, the gap has yet to change... nothing we have done in the last 60 years have done much, and this isnt talking about impoverished countries, and even if it were, why would importing thousands of thousands of these types of people going to help the country? how is importing an entire underclass going to be good for them? how will this be good for the country they leave behind? how will this help the people already here?
If we go back to recent evolution of humans, and we take Europeans as an example, most evolution in the past 10 000 years have involved things related to nutrition and disease, such as evolving the ability to continue to digest lactose into adulthood, or our pale skin that evolved when switched from eating a fat and blubber-rich diet rich in vitamin D to a largely starch-based diet as we adopted agriculture, requiring us to generate vitamin D in our skin, and other things of that nature.
So what you are saying is, because of the environment a specific ethnic/racial group historically have been exposed to, had curtailed and helped carve the evolutionary path they were set upon is unique and different than other groups of people?
Stands to reason that dumping people who dont belong into this environment will not do them very well long term
Any evolution of temperament or of cognitive ability would have to be subtle or minor because you are dealing with a complex machinery common to all humans.
And like every other animal on the planet, there are different sub groups with different abilities, and this will lead do some sub groups excelling at certain things and others with other things....
Mashing them all together isnt going to help anyone
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@cedricrust9953
yes, I need you to shownme what institutions exactly consitute this "one world government". I suppose you mean the UN, which is funny because whenever it votes against the US, the US just ignores it anyway or uses its veto power.
Yeah im talking about unofficial institutions. Like the Bilderberg group or the council on foreign relations, or the trilateral commission
Also, those aren't things "I think", they are conclusions drawn by scientists and can be looked up in the scientific literature.
What specifically?
If you really think scientists are all corrupt because they want research funds from the government (which are pretry competitive) while they could make fortunes spewing corporate propaganda for various oil companies to protect their short-term profites... yeah, not very convincing.
Yeah imagine thinking unlimited government money isnt more enticing than finite corporate money. Also ignoring the clear issue in the higher institutions of studies and research being unable to be replicated, and the infestation of marxism into higher learning
"Also, as I said, even if you don't care about people elsewhere, it will have an effect on the US anyway. The east coast has plenty of land that'd be under water eventually. If other countries suffer, this will also affect the world economy.
"
Yeah and 40 years ago florida was supposed to be under water and the icecaps would be gone and polar bears would be all dead. yet nothing happened and the same climate alarmist that gets pumped out decade after decade to fuel government run programs with tax dollars is just another brick in the wall
Not to.mention that transitioning to green energies coupled with infrasctructure spending (hello there public traffic), which Trump has promised to do but didn't, would be stimulating the job market
Green energy is a joke....
also infrastructure*
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@Gnerko123 my original reply was deleted for some reason
"I asked you about your overall pollution. You only mention production and recycling. This is why it looks like you’re ignoring tailpipe/marginal emissions. I’m not advocating looking at tailpipe emissions only, nor co2 only (tailpipes emit more than co2 alone)."
You bring up nothing of overall pollution, i at least explained my points. How am i ignoring tailpipe emissions whatsoever???
"you drew a sweeping conclusion that keeping an old car running always creates less overall pollution than scrapping it and getting a new car, without data to support your claim. I then provided a framework to assess which is less bad regarding overall pollution. I do not claim that junking any old car and replacing it by any new car is a good idea. You subsequently get into all kinds of objections against my method, still without providing your own method. You have no basis for your sweeping conclusion."
I provided a framework detailing my position, and gave examples while you have not really done the same. I provided my method. repeatedly over the course of several days. you ignored almost all of it.
i being up recycling not being what you seem to think it is, and you quote from wiki is essentially what i just stated that you somehow disagree with. It saves mostly metals, and most of the non metal is sent to landfill..
I bring up ease of repair in endlessly complex systems, more components to fail, increasing costs of ownership and maintain, and ends up furthering the end result of the disposable consumer vehicle
I bring up regulations being a driving factor to this issue, CAFE standards forcing cars to become larger and larger to meet obscene emissions regulatory guidelines. You yourself even admit to this point. that the gains from newer vehicles are mostly offset by size and weight
You act like i havent explicitly explained everything you've asked over and over again, and you just refuse to even attempt to try to understand the concept...
YOU have no basis for your conclusion ...
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@Gnerko123
"my point is we can calculate them and then make a comparison."
"what are you comparing if not co2?"
"What is the environmental impact of a car being sat in a lot being crushed by a salvage yard?"
"what data do you use other than c02 emissions? "
"what is the environmental impact on newer cars becoming disposable like old appliances?"
"whats the environmental impact of throwaway cars?"
"does that factor into your equation?
"we compare all tailpipe emissons, emissions expelled during production of the car, including environmental damage from battery production, environmental damage from oil production and refining, environmental damage from car recycling, and for an EV emissions created in generating the electrical power it consumes. There are methods to convert all figures to CO2 equivalents."
So somehow you convert plastic breakdown, and fluids, to c02 numbers? Dont buy that one bit. Talk about apples to oranges.... Also " recycling"? Only most of the metal is saved, the plastics, fabrics, and paints end up in landfills... Not sure how you can justify changing a plastic/microplastic environmental decomposition into a co2 number... seems like its not gonna make much sense no matter what you do with it
"..environmental impact ...disposable... appliances?"
I like that you ask this question, have no quantitative answer yourself, yet state that "moving away from things like appliances and cars being disposable like cellphones will go much farther than pushing evs"
Its like you arent capable of listening ot what ive said in a coherent genuine manner...If cars stop being made throwaway disposable appliances, the waste will be reduced. I dont need a study or complex math to comprehend that point. I feel like you are misunderstanding it intentionally. I have repeatedly stated my opinion on this idea. Not making new cars and re using already existing ones is better for the environment.
"How are you so sure of your opinion?"
It is my opinion that we should make a calculation to know the outcome of an equation. We weigh the pros and cons of both new cars and old cars and decide which is less and which is more. This is a quantitative question. No quantitative conclusions without a quantitative approach. My opinion then logically follows.
You somehow mash plastics into a c02 number, and call it a fair comparison? You are weighing a math equation made with estimates for extremely different scenarios while pretending its a fair comparison because some math? cmon dude, be real here
You once again show that you have no metric for making a comparison, yet know the outcome of the comparison. Lacking a quantitative analysis, you have no foundation to make a quantative conclusion such as "Car that exists pollutes less than one that needs to be made to replace it..."
I really think you are just fking with me at this point... Seriously... Creating a new object will inevitably always cost more energy and resources to create than one that already exists.. Ya know... because the one that exists already already exists...
My line of thought is summarrised below in small steps. Please let me know at what point you satart to disagree and which point we can agree on.
Driving any car pollutes. An old car has more tailpipe emissions than a new car. Thus the marginal emissions of an old car are higher than of a new car. A new car needs to be produced, this creates additional emissions which we don't need for the old car. A new car has a finite lifetime. We can determine the emissions needed for production and eventual recycling of the new car. We divide those production and recycling emissions by the mileage lifetime of the new car. We add this figure to the marginal emissions of the new car. This gives us a figure for the total emissions per mile of the new car. If this figure is lower than the marginal emissions of the old car, we create less overall polution by scrapping the old car ASAP and getting the new car.
All your entire argument hinges on the mashing together multiple different environmental factors into a simple data point, ignoring that this is not really accurate to real life, New cars are more and more likely to fail earlier and earlier, causing the " gains" they make to be less and less. Even to a point that you admit to that the gains are reduced based on the size and form factor of the vehicles ( which also exists emissions)
"If this figure is lower than the marginal emissions of the old car, we create less overall polution by scrapping the old car ASAP and getting the new car."
And if this figure is wrong? Where is it in your equation to solve the issue where newer cars end up not lasting as long, and the "lifetime emissions" are lower than "mathematically expected"? What about the end lifecycle of the newer vehicle? How many newer vehicles have to be scrapped, while older ones hang on to change your lifetime emissions metric? At what point do you consider the reparability of these vehicles as a factor in their overall emissions? This isnt even talking about EVS so to speak, because you can retrofit an older vehicle with an EV drivetrain and this would also reduce its overall lifetime emissions... but a dead car,, ICE or EV, thats unable to be repaired will never be a better option.
This analysis doesn't take into account that the old car also has a finite lifetime. If we would, the case for the old car would be worsened.
Gonna be real honest with you here chief... A car has an infinite lifetime. I know, sounds crazy... but it does. You can repair body panels, weld in new frame, replace engines, and transmissions... The case for old cars is even greater here. I tried to explain this to you but you apparently dont want to listen or you dont care.
I will note that it can take some time before the overall emissions of the new car are lower than those of the old car; the new car needs to drive some miles to compensate for its production emissions. If the new car lives past this point, scrapping the old car and getting the the new car creates less overall pollution than keeping the old car on the road.
And when new cars fail sooner and sooner, and dont live up to lofty emissions expectations? like ive been trying to tell you.. also im refusing to even acknowledge your point that " if co2 emissions work out, its better to forever live in a world where disposable vehicles are a thing as long as my very narrow specific manner of calculating its value is met.. its sorta insane
There is a point where the tailpipe emissions of the new car are so much lower than those of the old car, that the new car is cleaner, even factoring in production and recycling emissions. This is because the production and recycling emissions per mile aren't enough to offset the tailpipe emissions difference between the old and new cars. Whether or not this is the case, can be determined by a calculation.
"a calculation"
where you convert everything to c02..
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@Gnerko123
"If that is really what you think, it really is sad."
it is, because you keep doing it. i ask questions and you ignore them. Its honestly disrespectful at this point...
Here are a few you have yet to answer
"what are you comparing if not co2?"
"What is the environmental impact of a car being sat in a lot being crushed by a salvage yard?"
"How are you so sure of your opinion?"
"what data do you use other than c02 emissions? "
"what is the environmental impact on newer cars becoming disposable like old appliances?"
"whats the environmental impact of throwaway cars?"
"does that factor into your equation?"
"You're making the same points over and over again, only in different forms."
You are literally not making a single point whatsoever, you ignore relevant questions, and you dismiss everything i say as opinion while providing nothing in response
'll try one last time. You originally wrote:
"keeping an old car running effectively is far more useful at reducing total overall pollution than scrapping it and buying a new one."
You need to make an apples to apples comparison of the overall pollution of both cars to be able to draw this conclusion.
SInce this has already been answered before
Car that exists pollutes less than one that needs to be made to replace it...
I cant seem to understand why you have such a hard time understanding what seems to be a simple concept...
"Yet you appear to refuse to do this."
If you read this comment thread, you will find it answered more than once. you are disingenuous, and quite frankly frustrating..
"If not, I am keen to finally hear what your metric is for 'overall pollution' and how you came up with the conclusion that keeping an old car running always scores better on this metric than scrapping the old car and buying a new one."
If you would answer the following questions,
"What is the environmental impact of a car being sat in a lot being crushed by a salvage yard?"
"what is the environmental impact on newer cars becoming disposable like old appliances?"
"whats the environmental impact of throwaway cars?"
"does that factor into your equation?"
this would be apparent to you. but you have a dogmatic manner of approaching this conversation and refuse to even comprehend what is being said to you... its incredibly frustrating
Now i expect you to just straight up ignore everything i post, but here i am
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@Gnerko123 "disposal of the car is taken into account in the equation"
Really? so what is the environmental impact of a car being sat in a lot being crushed by a salvage yard?
"tailpipe emissions"
I remind you that your only mode of data is literally the c02 emissions data of ICE vehicles. not having anything to do with the environmental impact of a vehicle sat rotting in the open, or the breakdown of the endless plastics they use in modern vehicles. Once the vehicle stops running, the environmental impact doesnt stop.
" It appears you think this is impossible, "
the issue here is, i am thinking outside of the literal c02 (tailpipe) emissions of vehicles and am focusing on the long term viability, and environmental impact of current trends ion the automotive industry.
". It appears you think this is impossible"
If you only account for tailpipe/c02 emissions, you are missing the largest part of the environmental equation, and that has been the entire point of this discussion, detailing to you that there are other environmental factors outside of tailpipe emissions... You seem to think that this isnt the case. It seems to me that you are ignore the environmental impact of disposable vehicles, because" tailpipe emissions work out better" but that doesnt take into account of other environmental factors. I tried to explain this in multiple ways with multiple questions and scenarios. Looking into the future of current trends is very valuable in making future decisions , and seeing the trend of vehicles being endlessly complicated for in your own words reduced gain of efficiency will inevitably lead to more waste than necessary, which leads to higher levels of pollution and environmental damage. . but you seemed to just ignore them and acted like a snarky know it all who is too ignorant of anything outside of your narrow scope of understating of the topic IE tailpipe emissions. Mind you, never actually citing a single thing despite lambasting everything i say as opinion. So what if a newer vehicle produced slightly less emissions of an older vehicle? if the newer vehicle wont last as long as a newer vehicle. But yeah i dont have data for this. why would i be able to provide data for this? Im just looking at the future result of endless complexity added to a simple system for an ever reducing level of gains. The point of diminishing returns was somewhere in the mid 2000's if im being honest, but that really is just an opinion of working on vehicles of a wide array of vehicles for maybe a decade or more.
I discuss this topic because i have a vested interest in how these things function. FFS this is a year old comment thread that im still responding to. LOL I disagree with your assessment not because i believe your data is wrong, but because the data you are using isn't the entire picture
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@Gnerko123 " adding more words doesn’t make you more right and doesn’t make them relevant automatically."
and we just skip right passed everything i brought up, and ignored it... wonderful conversation pal.
" I don’t need to respond to every paragraph you wrote, because everything boils down to what I wrote."
Buddy, you literally agreed with nearly every point i made, yet still ignore it... Sure buddy
"You don’t agree with my equation. How would you go about comparing environmental impact of two different cars?"
you dont have an equation, you have what other people say to you. You clearly havent thought about this entire thing on a grand scale if you hjust straight up stop responding to things i bought up after you conceded that what i was saying was right...
How would i compare:? thats what ive been doing with all those words you ignored. You know those things where you say things, and they mean things? yeah those things...
your point essentially boils down to " so what if they are harder to fix, more complex and prone to breaking, and slowly being pushed into disposable commodities, but newer cars somehow are less environmentally impactful "even if your own words state that the size and weight make any environmental gains negligible, and this leads to newer vehicles becoming throwaway appliances, that somehow means less environmental impact because of my particulate " equation"....
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@Gnerko123
was busy today and replying to each comment one at a time would have been annoying
"One could argue that a modern car where you only have to replace components now and then is more repairable than an older car which keeps on rusting. Changing a component is easier than bodywork, as long as the part is avaibalbe of course."
And when you keep adding more and more complexity requiring more and more parts, that depend on availability. When an older car has far far fewer components to fail? what is the result of that?
its easier to weld in a new sheet of metal than it is to replace a out of production computer module
"You first mention that awd, turbo's, computers are bad."
Nope, i said nearly everything is turbo AWD run by a million computers... 2000's AWD and turbo tech were less complex and thus simpler... and thus easier to repair...
"you change your point that those systems used to be less complicated than they are now, thus only modern turbo's/awd's/computers are bad. Hardly seems fair."
My point was less complex and easier to repair from the beginning, and pointing out that nearly every car on the market today is awd turbo, meaning more numbers of higher complexity machines... but ok,
"EV AWD systems are very simple. One motor on each axle, done. much simpler than an engine, gearbox, transfer case & axle."
And all run with computers, and electricity tied to a grid. And somehow less simple than older awd/4wd systems... "its just an electric motor and vroom means simple" is just amazing
""They kinda are when they are made poorly and cheaply. And when they are exposed to drastically changing environments"""
"This applies to any component."
No not really, we are talking about you saying computers are usually reliable, firstly, no, they aren't, LMAO, second, a mechanical rod moving the mechanical shift lever on a transmission is and always will be infinitely simpler than current day solenoid electric shifting... mostly because its still moving the mechanical shifter level on the transmission...
"You mention negligible gains. I disagree about the negligible part. Unfortunately, most of the efficiency gains are offset by increasing vehicle weight and size. However, modern cars are faster, safer, cleaner, more comfortable, better equipped than older cars.
"i disagree"
Imediatly following
"Unfortunately, most of the efficiency gains are offset by increasing vehicle weight and size"
Thanks for proving my point while saying you disagree with it.... 300IQ
and throwing a bunch of useless techno bullsht doesnt count as " better equipped"
" its not really anecdotal to point out the increasingly complex un unrepairable nature of newer vehicles for negligible gains"
You literally included an anecdote to make your point. In said anecdote, you discuss how you could repair the modern car, albeit after searching for some hard to come by part. There is a multitude of parts of older cars that are excessively hard to come by.
Its like you are missing the point to try and say im wrong here... If my example was an older car, i could have thrown a rubber fuel hose and a hose clamp on it and be done with it. You cant do that anymore, therefore its harder to repair.. "old parts are hard to come by too" right, and older cars have far far fewer parts to remain functional... and as newer cars age, what do you think will happen? Honestly its starting to sound like you've never actually worked on vehicles before...
"actually i asked you several questions that you ignored"
I'm not going to count the number computers in a rav4. I'll not deny that needless complexity can be a risk for longevity. Anything that's on the car can break. More components = more failure modes, more risk for issues.
Yet: your questions are all address by the same thing I have said multiple times already:
Even if modern cars don't last as long as older cars, you can factor this in into the calculation; you simply offset their production costs over a shorter mileage.
"even if you are right and cars become harder to fix, wont last as long, become disposable commodifies like cellphones, and end up with more landfill and wasted resources, its slightly better in my " cost benefit" analysis somehow"
incredible my dude
"If you don't know how much shorter the lifespan of a modern car is compared to an older one, make an estimate. We can always refine the numbers later. I keep hammering on the need for a quantative comparison, otherwise we are comparing apples and oranges."
You are trying to live in data, i live in the real world. Do you work on vehicles? I do, I do it every day, i see and deal with this nonsense every single time i try to fix something on anything newer than 2010. I cant give you data, i can see and give you observable trends. And extrapolate end results of what i see. " data" will inevitably always tell you what it was set up to tell you. Honesty or reality are not required
"Old cars emit more during use, but they last longer. OK, but which one of those points weighs heaviest?"
the one that doesnt involve vehicles being pushed to the point of disposable appliances for the sake of " benefits" Who benefits when you need to replace your car every 3-8 years? Who benefits when we have to fill landfills with garbage? I fail to see how you can manage to conjure up some numbers that says having cars become disposable appliances to save the environment is a winning strategy. You obviously dont say that verbatim, but nearly everything i brought up you agreed with in one way or another, and yet the culmination of those ideas fails to sink in?
"We need to compare them somehow. We use numbers for that and put them in an equation. Otherwise, we're just sharing opinoins and feelings. That does not lead to an accurate outcome."
You are so caught up in data you forget that the data comes from real life...
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@stevennagy5351
so you think independence is always beneficial for everyone? lets take a look on ukraine, ............it simply became a joke state run by the intl financal mafia who sucked it dry. independence movement isnt always a good thing for the people. dont generalize this, there are always many other factors.
"became a joke state run by the intl financal mafia who sucked it dry."
and what do you think they are doing in the USA? and literally every other country connected to international banking finance.... Id rather die a free man rather than live a slave? i dunno, if they couldnt hack it doesnt mean it shouldnt be done at all ever?
I just mentioned that because it shows on which side the msm stays. just take the opposite of the msm say and it will likely be true. remember what CIA director william casey said: "We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false""
Yeah and yet i dont hear much about the yellow vests nor do i hear about these protests in msm, but alright.
by your logic the whole world is pretty fucking lame because almost everywhere people cant just secede from a country.
Ok no it wouldnt, but alright. Sort of the entire point of 'states' but the federal gov doesnt seem to care about that part, so i guess its all fucked
"Ohhh bad USA, bad, UN good, good UN"
oh I almost forgot... looks like murica was fucking innocent all the time... seriously, what....... are you even trying to say? the un is just a tool to legitimize us wars...
Yeah it sucks, what do you want me to do about it?
it worked in 1950 with korea and in 1990 because at the time us had no enemys in the security council anymore.
like they care about permission from the council, looks like they didnt need that in 2003. I wonder on whom you blame that one... it wasnt the un who used all that depleted uranium.
I dunno, my government is in the pocket of international bankers and shit, how is that my fault?
"Yeah i dont see how thats my problem as i wasnt able to vote then"
news flash: no one cares for your vote, they do what is profitable.
funny how they werent actually sand people before the us bombed them: "By the end of the 1970’s Iraq had received an award from UNESCO for its campaign to eradicate illiteracy" the standard of living was pretty high by 1989... yeah... now they are sand people but who wouldnt be after that.
Yeah and islam does wonders to the places it grows, again, how is an out of control government my fault? and if all the governments are corrupt, and all revolution is scripted what the fuckare you even trying to say?
yes of course it did. my only problem is that you were actually defending them by distracting from it, either on purpose or due to ignorance. otherwise you wouldnt say that china meddles everywhere or ignoring all the signs for the hk riots being a color revolution.
If every revolution is a color revolution, what is the solution to ever growing corrupt governments and forceful immigration destroying countries for a small number of financial elites?
I dont know what your issue is
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@captainfreedom3649 really? every single one of them? even if its in your country? even if it actually doesnt benefit the people?
I dont know, why not elaborate? you seem to be creating a scenario that doesnt exist to make a point
well they certainly tell more about hk than the yellow vests in france.
So the yellow vests are the good guys and the HK protesters are the bad guys for what reason?
"And do what? let them continue doing what they were already doing?
"
dont know what u mean.
existing as an entity that isnt china?
"so because they are small means they cant have independence from larger groups?
"
not only that, hk has no army. they depend on the PLA to defend them. those capitalist city states like hk and singapur belong to the financal elite anyway.
so i guess the people who were born and live there have no say what goes on in the lands they were born into? seems pretty fucking lame if you ask me
"What genocide are you talking about fam? you sound like you dont even know what you are trying to talk about"
remember when us sanctions crippled Iraq so much that 500 000 children died?
"Initially the UN Security Council imposed stringent economic sanctions on Iraq by adopting and enforcing United Nations Security Council Resolution 661"
Ohhh bad USA, bad, UN good, good UN
do I have to remind you of what madeleine albright said when she was asked wether it was worth it? and lets not forget the two iraq wars, which add even more hundreds of thousands.... how about the bombing of serbia 1999? when they killed like 2000 civillians, and one them freedom bombs even hit a CHINESE EMBASSY. if these aint genocides fam, I dont know what is. lets see when chinas last war was.... it was 40 years ago, against vietnam, and they lost.
Yeah i dont see how thats my problem as i wasnt able to vote then, and im failry certian the US government is now a hostile power, but thats just my opinion living there my whole life... Yeah i totally wanted my government to go bomb sand people in the desert for freedums
did it ever occur to you, that propaganda endorsing the war and enabling my government do do what it did is proving my point that the average us citizen has zero control over the federal government?
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@SergeiVorobei "how do you know it doesn't work in practice?"
well, you cant legislate the poor out of poverty, most forms of taxation are theft, and wealth distribution will subsidize poor behavior. ( IE taking from the haves and giving to the have nots will only create more have nots)
"Speaking of centralised control over a nation for elite, this is how all governments work."
No it doesn't, government is supposed to be decentralized, hence states have the ability to be separate from other states, and cities and towns do the same. This was to keep power lower in the chain, and closer to the voting citizen... The more federal programs and oversight, the farther out of control they become from the voting citizen
"Centralised control is essential for all sorts of operations under one government."
I dont need the federal government dictating what my state is forced to do.
I dont need my state government dictating what my local town is forced to do
"If you mean obstruction of freedom through centralised government control, then you should be more specific as to extent of freedom and respective degree of violence."
If i dont pay the state their cut of my home value ( taxes) they either take me to jail ( under threat of armed resistance) or seize my home ( IE violently forced to vacate my property)
Where else would you like me to go?
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@vladislavssirins7226
yes..you suppoort all the wars US involved..cos you are not protesting that..
I was in 6th grade when we invaded iraq, what you expect 12/13 year old to understand geopolitics and propaganda enough to protest???
you are more worryied about protests in Russia or China...
the fuck are you talking about?
I hate china, china sucks, everything is made in china and it sucks... HK giving china the middle finger is just a personal enjoyment
you went to Vietnam war,,you sent your boys to die there..hte war started cos of a fake accusations of vietnamese atacked your ship(which didn't happend).how many american citizens died in that war?how many vietnamese? you went to Iraq..and ,again,you lied about WMD...what did you (folk)do about that? nothing again...it is easy way to blame government...so do something about that gov. then/ but no,you better worry about chinese government...china is not going with war to other countries and not killing millions civilians and not destroying and not destabilizing regions on other part of the world,thousands of miles away..US does
Look buddy, china and the US are plenty buddy buddy and thats the entire fucking problem. you think i wanted everything my country gets to be made in china? you think thats fun for me? a guy who likes fixing things living in a world where its easier to buy new cheap shit from china than getting your old reliable stuff fixed?
You think my government cares what the citizens think? what the fuck do you think the propaganda is for?
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@skitidet4302
the " capitalist" cant enslave the state unless the state is already corrupt. how else do these mega nationals get their financial arrangements? favorable legislation
'How would you keep the merchant cast and especially that special ethnic group in check without using state power? I dare you to try to explain that.'
lol cant say that, no way the comment would stay up haha. but you are not going to do this with the state, because the state is already under control. you cant beat them when they control the system used to beat them.
'True, but that group is not our kin so projecting our duties and responsibilities on to them is irrational.'
Right, and they control the levers of the mechanisms that both control legislation, finance, education, media and entertainment industries. Trying to do anything within the confines of their system is always a fruitless effort
'A healthy system is a system in which the powers work together in harmony for the common good of their people, this tend to happen when their interests mostly align'
cant have that with the tribe
'If one of the institutions becomes corrupt and pursues their own interests at the expense of everyone else, it should be purged and if it can't be purged in time it will have the blame at it's feet so it tend to be overthrown eventually. '
Other than watering the tree of liberty none of that will happen, because the media education institutions, etc etc etc can control the perception of reality
'Capitalism is the main force behind the current order. It is what upholds and perpetuates ideologies like liberalism, democracy, globalism, universalism, materialism, humanism, egalitarianism etc because it needs them to survive and grow.'
Yeah still not explaining how capitalism is at fault here... its abundantly clear that " capitalism" means nothing when you control everything else, so blaming capitalism makes no sense
'As for the question of who/what created capitalism, the process has existed since before recorded history when people started trading for profit instead of necessity, but the system only came in to effect when the process of capitalism became a driving force if not the driving force of society.'
You say this as if controlling the perceived reality of the masses has no effect on what drives society...
'That's not capitalism. Capitalism is money making money, that is making money without labor, so literally the opposite of what you are talking about.'
'It has everything to do with Capitalism. The whole system of control and deception is set up by and for the elites that run the capitalist system. You fail to see the mechanics of the system and just blame it on a certain group. Sure that group is very influential and a main player in the capitalist system of control, but that system is so flawed I can criticize it without even bringing up that group.'
And that literally can only happen when you have control over the money supply, the legislation, media, and legal institutions and therefore has nothing to do with capitalism. Words mean nothing when you control the context. what you keep describing literally cannot happen without the tribe
the moral degradation isnt from markets, its from the media industry. You are arguing its capitalism doing this, but its the other way around, its the tribe corrupting and using capitalism as a vehicle. Any amount of free trade will always turn into what you think is capitalism. If i start a business im not going to bust my back for decades unless there is financial incentive for me to do so.
'How did you wake up to the ethnic problem and not understand anything of the main tool/system they used to enslave us?"'
Right, capitalism is a tool, not the problem. we can be enslaved by whatever term or system you want, its still exactly the same. stating " capitalism " is how they gain their power is laughable because that implies that this cabal isnt older than the USA... You think they needed "capitalism" when they instituted the federal reserve? no, they were already there
'It boggles the mind. How do you think they accumulated that power? Foreskin sacrificing blood magic? '
How should i know? this cabal is older than everyone currently running it and they had power well over 200 years ago
'Yes the current system is rotten through and through and should not be given any more power, but the only thing that could prevent this from happening is a strong state to protect it's people. '
Ok, so anything you do while inside said system wont work
'If you tear down the rotten system and do not set up a strong state as a guardian to prevent the system from becoming rotten again, you will soon find yourself knee deep in the same rot again."
Great, obviously, how does one tear down a system when we the people have no means to do so?
So since the hero failed to save the world we should just never try to be heroic again? We should just let the world fall deeper and deeper into darkness because last time we failed? This is insane.
Dont know where you get that from... what is your solution? because " capitalism bad" isnt really an answer
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@skitidet4302
The federal reserve and government intervention
No, it happens because most things/people can be influenced if not outright bought with money. This happens regardless if the rich has a federal reserve or government under their thumb, those institutions just help to expedite the process by giving monied interests more power to influence the system in their favor.
OK so unless you are going to tell me we need a moneyless system, im gonna have to stop you there and say that wont work either.
"You mean the government in bed with corrupt multinationals create legislation that controls market forces and destroys competition? "
Yes, when the rich become powerful enough to outright control governments and other powerful institutions like guilds, unions, churches and the media, all control is lost.
Right, but MY point is they only GOT that rich by BEING corrupt... the system that takes place in is irrelevant when the ones making the rules are the ones benefitting from them.
"From that point on, multinational corporations and the billionaires that run them rule the world, they are the true sovereigns and nation states are just their subjects that has to fight among each-other for scraps. This is the endstate of capitalism that last until the people rise up and take back the world from these scheming exploiters"
Capitalism has nothing to do with this, and this exact thing would happen under any other nonsense system you come up with because the problem is the governments and the power they wield. If you make the rules who cares what system you use?
"What? How does this even make sense in your head?"
Let me give you an example. How do you make more money when the markets are already saturated? You open up a new market! There are plenty of markets that are very profitable just waiting to be exploited, things like prostitution, pornography, drugs and human trafficking and so on, the thing is that those markets are immoral so first they need to erode away morality to open up these markets in order to exploit them for profit. Do you think a virtual meat market like Tinder or onlyfans would have been socially acceptable 50 years ago? NO! That businesses model only became viable once morality has been sufficiently eroded.
Yeah but YOU attribute that to capitalism, and still existed 50 years ago, while Im trying to articulate that the system has nothing to do with it, the moral corruption comes from this liberal lefty live and let live garbage. you think capitalism is what manipulates social constructs and group think? no, thats the media and Hollywood, i wonder which group of people are over represented in those...
"Because " capitalism" to you is the decades of government manipulation of finance and markets, while globalizing and offshoring to keep their power... This has nothing to do with capitalism and everything to do with crony business practices, corrupt governments, and a global clique of internationalists who have zero problems with nation destroying. "
No, you got it backwards, it's not the government doing it, it's just a pawn. The governments are just puppets for international finance system that runs the world. Democracy has always been a scam, it's just a clever way for the oligarchs to set up an oligarchy that masquerades as the will of the people and thus legitimizes their oppressive rule.
The international finance system cant do anything until it manipulated a government in the first place, and by that point its irrelevant... im arguing the same thing, except you call it capitalism, missing the point. " making money" isnt the problem, its " who controls the money, who controls the laws, who controls the media"
"What the hell was that last bit about? doesnt really follow and makes no sense"
I'm talking about religions and how they sorta predicted/foreshadowed all of this. Many religions, especially Indo-European pagan religions believed in cyclical history where the ages would create more wealth than the last but it would corrupt the hearts of men and turn them in to immoral people. It would culminate in a final age called the dark age/the age of iron/Kali Yuga where money, lust, greed, treachery and materialism would completely corrupt the human spirit. Then it would end with an apocalyptic event like Ragnarök or Krishna coming down to earth and purging all the evil so a new era can begin anew once the filth has been burned away.
so religion aside, you seem to miss the part where history IS cyclical, and there is a group of people who are manipulating that. and it has nothing to do with " capitalism"
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@robinhood5627
Yes the warming effect of co2 IS limited. It counts for about 40% of total GHGs in the atmosphere.
No
"The most common gases in Earth's atmosphere are nitrogen (78%), oxygen (21%), and argon (0.9%). The next most common gases are carbon dioxide (0.04%)"
carbon dioxide (0.04%)
0.04%
Water Vapour is the biggest GHG and does way more to trap heat than CO2.
right, but theres always a but
BUT the co2 WE have emitted has slowly over almost 300 years warmed the planet enough to cause other GHGs to be emitted, Methane and Nitrogen from over 7000 sources of clathrates in seas, oceans, lakes and rivers around the whole world. More being released from the permafrost in the Arctic.
The seas? you mean the seas we havent explored more than 20% of? you mean the same sea that is also involved in the heating and warming cycles of the earth, but we dont have a precise accounting of its effects, but its TOTALLY bad and going to cause a runaway reaction
I can't be bothered to go into more example but trust me there are dozens, yes CO2 is tiny, but it's built up over the years and it has more of a trigger / accelerant effect causing other things to provide more bulk heating.
Sure, totally, because all the other predictions were so accurate, im sure this one will be too
As for the west being better at waste management, sure we pack it up onto cargo ships, sail it around the globe and give it to indonesia to dump into the ocean. Or did you mean GHGs? if so you need to understand India and China's emissions are largely due to production of crap for the western markets as well as their own massive populations.
But yes they are terrible polluters.
And if we didnt offshore manufacturing things would be made in first world countries with first world pollution requirements. Its not like i wanted it to turn out that way, but here we are, and now the first world nations have to pay billions of dollars for tax credits to save the earth...
My advice stop buying plastic tat and importing it in. But at least you are acknowledging there is a GHG pollution issue, that's a good start.
Stop buying and making shit in china, stop importing pajeets so they stop sending money home, and plant trees... problem solved
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@robinhood5627
That's not correct what-so-ever.
Oh?
It caused a temporary global dimming effect due to ash and sulphate particulates blanketing the stratosphere. The dimming only lasted for around 5 years with the worst of it dissipating within 1 year.
So the first part is correct, a volcano that caused a years long effect, was again, only temporary.
Human activity has been adding CO2 to the atmosphere since the dawn of coal powered industry and agriculture around 1750. Since that time human population has more than octupled thanks to industry. We are a gargantuan organism that coats the entire planet like a skin. We are the biggest contributor to CO2 in the history of this planet with the only exception being the Siberian traps some 252 million years ago. You are very deluded if you honest believe the whole of humanity has no effect on the atmospheric makeup of this planet. Of course we do! we are pumping out more CO2 each and every day than a volcanic eruption the size of the Tambora eruption put out.
So, " we pump out more c02 every day than the tambora eruption"?
two questions here,
How much c02 was released by that volcano?
and
How much C02 is " we"
You are insane to think this has no effect. All of our science says it does. The IPCC even though it's way off and too conservative says this is devastating, and like I said, it's wrong, it's way way worse.
" even though they are wrong about the data, the point still stands" yeah sure
But believe whatever you like, it doesn't matter either way at this point. The CO2 already exists and the damage is already done, the heating is locked in and no matter what we do we will see no change in that heating.
I mean the warming effect of c02 is limited considering it is such a small part of the overall climate
And we will do nothing, because too many people are as deluded as those in this comment section. So time will prove me right, at least I get the satisfaction of my last words being "I told ya so" with a smug look.
Holy fuck man, how amazing you project your smugness upon me. I love arguing about c02 because it completely ignores and avoids the real pollution problem, but that would require accepting that the US and most of the first world are far better at managing pollution and waste than others.... say india or china
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@KR-mm4el now, i know you are gaslighting/trolling
but as per UN
1. A mental element: the "intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such"; and
2. A physical element, which includes the following five acts, enumerated exhaustively:
Killing members of the group
Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part
Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group
Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group
endless propaganda, whute guilt indoctrination, forceful integration with endless foreigners, and a denial of attacks on whuites, and an inversion for a peoples right to self determination, and in group preferences is turned into an absolute evil AKA racism and hatred.
so feel free to disagree, but you are wrong
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@CharlesDarwinHimself
Firstly, you asked " what lies"
how does this end on people killing themselves?
destroying your nation from the inside out, shipping off low skill jobs, while importing skilled labor, all while squeezing your out in favor of various other ethnic advocacy groups, then demonizing you for doing the same. meanwhile, you, as white male, are statistically the only group of people in the country who are a net tax producer, meaning every single other metric are a net tax loss over time. so while at the same time all this is happening, you a re being taxed disproportionately to what you take out of the system. all the while being socially ostracized for speaking out against it
You think the rest of the world has it any better than that?
why does that matter in this context at all? the rest of the world is flooding into white western nations, so of course its not any better, its the fact that everyone else is bleeding into your own nations
Dude you people have it easy.
Yeah ok, sure keep thinking that
Also you just threw a bunch of sentences without proving them.
they arent just a " bunch of sentences" every single one of them is based on an actual lie
I do believe that some of them are lies.
Every single one is a lie
I don't understand however why would someone kill themselves over that?
imagine growing up in a world being told this is how it works, and these are the rules, only to find out as an adult that everything was bullshit, and no one plays by the rules
If you don't work then you'll not have anything that you desire in life.
Even if you work the government takes a third right off the bat, then you spend the rest of your life paying said government hundreds of thousands of dollars every year to give away to foreign nations, import foreigners into your cities and towns, line their own pockets, use homes and other properties as investments, and selling them to foreign investors causing a never ending increase in rent and home values, bombard you with propaganda every day in every facet of your life, every other group but straight white males get legs up in anything they want, from quotas, to lowered standards, to loan programs to tax breaks.
One day you wake up and realize the entire game is rigged against you, and no one cares
You are only proving my point:
not really
you're blaming everything but yourselves, you're saying that people literally END THEIR LIVES because a couple of blacks/browns entered their country or because they have been told that six million jews were killed or that the government uses the MK Ultra?
1965 90% white
2019 65% white
" a few blacks and browns"
why not look into yearly visas? why not look into everything i said? why are you pretending this isnt a massive fucking issue that everyone is ignoring?
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Martyr4JesusTheChrist yeah, bandwagon, sure, say that all you want while an entire industry suffers from imported labor from on average substandard educations, and often times fraudulent diplomas, certificates and education. mix that with an entire industry built upon the facilitation of this importation, and its becomes clear there serious problems here... pretend that im wrong all you want, but i spent 30-40 hours a week for years with a mostly indian company, so feel free to ignore my anecdotes, but when you are working with a company that has its fingers in every other hospital industry, bank/financial institution,retail chain etc etc, nearly entirely staffed by Indians, you can start to see a serious problem... but i digress,
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@redrumtm3435
Feeling threatened? Your straw man arguement didn't make a single valid point. I can't just walk into the home you inherited from your father and lay claim to it, yet I could under your flawed way of thinking.
And yet millions of people walk across or fly into the borders of my country, pop a kid out, and voila, they get to stay forever. not sure how thats not an apt comparison
Oh, that's right, you aren't bothered until it effects you.
So this is news to you? being in the self interest of yourself, and your family and community is bad, but unending " sympathy" for the entire world is some kind of moral altruism that makes you feel good about yourself
Ordinary people are suffering all over the world, and all you care about is your own prosperity.
Sooo i should care more about the strangers in the congo, or the entire middle east over my family, my people and my own country? i dont understated your point
You'll soon whine when it's your turn to be replaced - it's already happening to non-white people throughout the Western world, which is why ethnic quotas have been introduced to prevent too many non-whites from developing an anti-mass-immigration sentiment.
What? what is this paragraph even supposed to say? we have quotas to stop mass immigration sentiment? why do we need mass immigration? why are we opining the flood gates to the entire impoverished world? we cant sustain that and you know it.
As always, indigenous Europeans have to suffer so that "diversity'' can flourish; all whilst we see our own diversity disappear. How long is it before blondes, red heads, and blue eyes are non-existent? That isn't diversity, racist.
of course its racist, why cant euros keep the countries they were born into? why do they have to be forced to share with the entire world?
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@OrdoMallius " What nation can truly claim biological similarity?"
Almost every single nation ever to exist
nation (n.)
c. 1300, nacioun, "a race of people, large group of people with common ancestry and language," from Old French nacion "birth, rank; descendants, relatives; country, homeland" (12c.) and directly from Latin nationem (nominative natio) "birth, origin; breed, stock, kind, species; race of people, tribe," literally "that which has been born," from natus, past participle of nasci "be born" (Old Latin gnasci), from PIE root *gene- "give birth, beget," with derivatives referring to procreation and familial and tribal groups.
The word is used in English in a broad sense, "a race of people an aggregation of persons of the same ethnic family and speaking the same language," and also in the narrower sense, "a political society composed of a government and subjects or citizens and constituting a political unit; an organized community inhabiting a defined territory within which its sovereignty is exercised."
In Middle English it is not easy to distinguish them, but the "political society" sense emerged by 16c., perhaps late 14c. and it has gradually predominated. The older sense is preserved in the application of nation to the native North American peoples (1640s). Nation-building "creation of a new nation" is attested by 1907 (implied in nation-builder). Nation-state "sovereign country the inhabitants of which are united by language, culture, and common descent" is from 1918.
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@Danb15000 if everyone is something. No one is.
Let me help you
c. 1300, nacioun, "a race of people, large group of people with common ancestry and language," from Old French nacion "birth, rank; descendants, relatives; country, homeland" (12c.) and directly from Latin nationem (nominative natio) "birth, origin; breed, stock, kind, species; race of people, tribe," literally "that which has been born," from natus, past participle of nasci "be born" (Old Latin gnasci), from PIE root gene "give birth, beget," with derivatives referring to procreation and familial and tribal groups
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@amiesports
" this is just how you see it. grenades are just as illegal as guns btw. so are fireworks and other explosives."
Yeah and? people still get them, just illegally... now riddle me this, how would one see a gun in self defense if he is seen as a criminal regardless?
personal opinion being dangerous freedom over safe slavery?
sure bud, lock in your own shackles and have the government take are of you...
" rather live long being restricted in some way, as we in fact all are from birth anyways(slavery??!) then die of an insane mans bullet."
LOL its funny, because you seem to think people are shot randomly all the time, yet when i bring up terror attacks in your own country they barely blip your radar.
Its not even real safety dude, its the illusion of safety. you are under the delusion that these laws are keeping you safe, when they are clearly doing no such thing.
"Edit: (sidenote) all weapons that resourced terrorist attacks came from Russia."
Imma just dismiss this because it sounds like a lame copout... weapons are sourced inside european nations from multitudes of places, also the manufacturing of untraceable homemade firearms are in circulation as well... simply banning things doesnt make them go away, it just obscures them from the light of day...
"If they maybe banned their weapon trades victims weren't as high."
This is entirely speculation based on nothing. if every single nation in the world banned all guns, you wouldnt get rid of guns at all... thinking this is so flawed
"The explosive bags were home made so you do have a point. they'll kill you with a stick if they want to rly."
Yeah so why would we want the good law abiding citizens to be disarmed when criminals can arm themselves with whatever they want to?
nothing you are saying makes any sense
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@deutschlanddeutschland7111 Yeah i have, oddly enough, there are still guns there even though they are banned^tm
"it'd take you so much effort to just get a gun, by the time you got one you forgot about the crime you wanted to commit"
That is by far the dumbest thing i have ever read in the history of gun control nonsense... congratulations dude
In what way would you think someone intent on committing a terrorist attack would be dissuaded by simple " laws" murder, and violent acts are already illegal, what makes you think they will car about silly gun laws? do you know what gun laws do? they create a black market that buy default covers a wide range of weapons considering how strict they are. and on top of that, they can be smuggles at a cost, so all you are doing is creating a cost barrier, and artificially inflating a black market (which profit regardless of laws in place btw)
"And then the police takes away your gun and puts you in jail just for that. Easy. "
HAHAHAHAHH i take that back, this is the dumbest thing youve said =)
How will they know you have it if its bought on the black market? (pro tip, they dont)
"I never have to worry about anything because I know nobody has a gun anyway."
Congrats, there are people near you all the time with guns and you just assume they dont because a law is in place....
Guns arent the problem, crime and people are the problem, removing guns just causes violence to be sorted out in other ways, it doesnt remove violence, just changes the course of it...
besides, if you remove gang related gun homicides, that huge scary number drops to something you would see in Nordic countries... funny that
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R3d D0t
"you clearly know nothing about marijuana in this state."
And i can say the same for you
"We have thousands of cartel goons who are here illegally and they divert streams to irrigate their crops, and use dangerous pesticides that are illegal for very good reasons- in fact, our fish and game department pursues felony charges against them because of how much damage they cause to the environment, illegal grows have been reduced to a misdemeanor in most cases and that's the only way to really nail them."
Sounds like a multitude of problems that isnt exactly going to be fixed by ending the drug war or anything, sounds more like a immigration issue...
"Though, their stuff is pretty much all for export to the rest of the country- enjoy that pancreatic cancer."
no thanks, i support locally grown stuff
"Indoor grow ops cost too much in overhead to justify illegal indoor grows,"
You have never tried to grow weed in your life...
"outdoor grows in the open are just asking to get busted, so the cartel guys grow in the forest where they have some cover.
"
We can grow our own plants in the backyard
"lol you sound pretty paranoid" Go ahead, smoke all that California weed that gets illegally shipped to your state where it's illegal. I'm sure you and your friends think it's the best weed ever, and any symptoms of exposure to harmful chemicals couldn't possibly have anything to do with poisonous substances added to the weed."
Hey genius , if i live in a state where its illegal, why would i be explaining to you that " illegal" weed is cheaper than " legal weed"
And this weird anti taxation delusion is unhinged.
Taxation is theft
"If someone's retarded enough to drink illegal moonshine loaded with methanol and mercury, just to save a few bucks, there's something seriously wrong with them."
Yeah, or you get some moonshine thats made by someone who can follow instructions. ever try some? i have, was a lemonade. tasted pretty good, little strong, but not terrible.
"Well, aside from the part where they're going blind and other effects of the poisons adulterating their moonshine. Hence why that doesn't really happen anymore.
"
Yeah it sounds like alot of nonsense to me to be honest dude. People make moonshine all the time, they also make other types of booze. they make beer, and they sell it, to other people, without the consent of local or state governing bodies...
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@georgivelev5783 " there is no smugness" followed immediately by "learn to read"
Sure
"yes of course it will boost them, they will share the profits, the dividends, the grants, whatever you want to call them.
How? by doing what? you think this will have no effect on outsourcing? would this have no effect on employment?
This is the logic, so to deprive them of this is softly said a GROSS exploitation! A crappy, unsecured job for crappy money when at the same time one person gets billions... this is rather grotesque, I think.
You complain about worker exploitation, but claim china is doing well? how is this a good idea to further incentivize offshoring of work? If the same standards were held to china, then it wouldnt be financially better to ship work there
And at the same time same people can't send their kid to school, cause of crippling debt for school tuition fees, house mortgages and loans for cars... RATHER GROTESQUE! Call it envy I don't care, this is not right and everyone knows it is not right!
College has become a scam, degrees are worthless now. We are importing " high skilled immigrants" to work the " college degree jobs" further driving t hose wages down and growing the supply of workers in stem fields. at the same time we off shore low skill labor, we are also importing hundreds of thousands of low skill immigrants ( legal and not) yearly to kill off low wage jobs. Second off, community college is a thing and far cheaper, trade schools are cheaper, dont forget that exploding the population has a large impact on the cost of housing, and if you need a loan to buy a car, you cant afford that car...
Where is the reason in this system, I don't see any. This system produces inequality since the very start of distribution of wealth, and then tries to justify the mess it creates, and then you wonder why some people are in the position of Bloomberg corrupting and forging laws to serve them, well this is why it is, because if you have such division of labour and such distribution of wealth you get this monstrosity of a society.
I explained the " reasoning" its lobbying and corruption. " exploitation of the worker" is just the vehicle for this mode of operation.
- capitalist enterprises are UNDEMOCRATIC by their very nature!
SO what the hell is a "capitalist enterprise"
I open my own business, am i now undemocratic? are people forced to participate in and pay for things from my business? Why is it big buisness = capitalism? Is small business capitalistic? is owning the means of my own production capitalism? or is everything with you an oppressor/oppressed mindset?
No wonder why businessmen buy the politicians and power. As the time goes they manage to either pass convenient laws, bypass laws or not follow them at all - this is how wealth operates. The working class are the ones who have to buy the politicians to serve them, not the other way around. With every denial of this reality you effectively help the rich by indirectly defending their interests for them!
How in what manner am i defending the interests of the rich by wanting protectionist policies and less social welfare? I want less government legislation and interference. I want a freer market, not to be dependent on foreign nations
SO think about that, you are the working person who creates fruits for this society,...You, as a working person should have all the comfort in the society, tax reductions, benefits of all sort
Well if the government didnt take half my paycheck with taxes, and require exorbitant sums to regulatory and fee based gate keeping practices to small business to keep the markets non competitive, so people like bloom berg can reap the benefits. this CANNOT be done without the government
The unions have fought hard and now when the automation and the artificial intelligence are here the productivity of workers has doubled, or maybe quadrupled and you wonna tell me that we will be on a 40 hour work week with a weekend and a crappy job with crappy salary going nowhere and save our entire lives for a crappy house while Bloomberg best the 60+ billion!
And thinking unions in today sage are any better than these bloomberg types you are far more naive than I. Corruption and lobbying is a huge problem with unions. Ever wonder why government projects are always over budget and over time?
I don't think so, this is not normal and majority of people do not except this for normal. This is why they feel misrepresented and disenfranchised by the system. And this is the reason why they vote for Sanders, this is the reason why people voted for Trump, they thought he was different. Obama is the reason why Trump sits in the White house today and why everybody is talking Sanders, Obama did not do ANYTHING to overturn this system since the crash of 2008 which the RICH, THE BANKS AND THE BIG CORPORATIONS CREATED!
End the fed, repeal the 1965 immigration act, begin another round of repatriation, tariff imports, and let it self correct. Raising taxes just to institute more welfare programs and entitlement programs is not going to fix anything. it will just continue the cycle of collapses on a longer timescale
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@georgivelev5783
Socialism is in a sense capitalism's shadow. It will always be there, no matter if you like it or not! It has been born by the failures of capitalism the same way capitalism has been conceived and born in blood and violence by the revolutions against Feudalism. Socialism is the critique of capitalism and where capitalism fails, socialism tries to give a solution, an answer. Like capitalism, socialism also evolves over time and develops. FOR EXAMPLE, the socialism of 21 century is not the socialism of 20th century. And this is true for capitalism too - you don't have colonialism, slave markets, you don't have child labour and shockingly long working hours and work weeks, which are a couple of wonderful examples of what capitalism used to be, used to accept as "normal". Of course slave markets are not something invented by capitalism but should make you think how wonderfully those two things used to coexist together... I am putting it out there for all the market lovers, just as a side note. The socialism of 21st century is not for total domination and control of the government, which in fact would be a state capitalism, but is for the reorganisation of the work place and giving the power in the hands of the many, the working people who produce the fruits of the society. The slogan is: "Democratise the enterprise!", because the enterprises are where people spent the most of their lifetime and yet the last place where democracy exist. This is really strange if you ask me for an American society which fetishises democracy, don't you think? What type of democracy and reorganisation should be put in place is a subject for another discussion. Just for a comparison, in Germany, by law, companies of different size have to include proportionate number of representatives of their workers in their board of directors. Wow, I wonder why?! Well this is something unthincable, TRUE COMMUNISM, according to your beloved Bloomberg, everything will collapse, he says and yet Germany - the economic spine of the EU... interesting. They allow more fair share of engagement of their working class than America does...
I feel like we would end up spending far to much time defining terms. I just fail to see how there would be any difference between old socialism and new socialism. being that they both as you describe, as
giving the means of production to the working class.
"by law, companies of different size have to include proportionate number of representatives of their workers in their board of directors."
And what is this going to do? What " fair share of engagement" will this produce? just more people to bribe and become corrupted
"your beloved Bloomberg,"
Excuse you? GTFO
In general, none of these economic models are perfect but they follow gradual progression of overall development. To suggest that socialism is a failure means you are historically inept. I can give you simple examples. The fastest growing economy of the 20th century is USSR, the fastest growing economy of the 21st century is China...
And these things happened in a vacuum solely due to the economic models they used? surely you jest, especially with china, china would not be what it was without teh corruption of the US and the international conglomerates of business who lobby for power...
I am not endorsing the horrors of the Soviet regime, nor the suppression of certain human rights in China, I am simply pointing out what those economic models set out to achieve and how successful they were! And it wasn't merely due to the mechanisms of capitalism. Well it is well known fact that from a poor backward country Russia becomes a world super power managing to rival the United States and yet not being capitalist. All of this happening in only couple of decades! China uses a mixture between centrally planned economy and free owned and operated businesses and in 10 years will become the economic power house of the planet...
Good thing most products out of china are garbage, good thing they manipulate their currency, and lobby the us firms to send business there, yeah good economic model by bribing people to rig the game in there favor...
The history of both economic models is filled with trails and errors. There are multiple types of capitalism the same way there are multiple types of socialism, so it is fair to say socialisms. It has been like this with capitalism and it is the same with socialism, the only difference is that one is more than 200 years old and the other one not as old. You should already know these things if you pretend to understand the merits of capitalism, but I guess you are only interested in pointing out the death counts and not acknowledging any of the positives which the left movement has created, which by the way concerns you directly. Not only you but the guy up there on the video as well! I hardly doubt that neither you nor him are billionaires and in such case your life depends more on the reality of your job than anything else. You should be really concerned what is your place as a worker in this society and what dividends you get by being one.... Answer this to yourself and be very honest to yourself.
Yeah if only giant international businesses didn't lobby my government full of corrupt individuals to sell out the country for a quick buck. surely this is the fault of capitalism somehow. I dont know about you, but there isnt much " capitalism: in the us when the government is in charge of everything. unless this means in your definition of capitalism that the free market has no bearing on anything. But you seem to attribute slavery to the tenets of capitalism
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@qiqiaoqin1648
fairy tales as in a libertarian centrist classical liberal world where we can all "own the libs" together.
Oh so it has nothing to do with anything in reality, and has all to do with your interpretation of other person believes? interesting
It's fine I was at that phase too you'll grow out of it.
Grow out of what? not wanting to be a cog in my governments plans?
No, licence in this case doesn't mean you need to apply for something from the government to do it... Look up freedom vs licence and you'll find out that most westerners want licence.
"In moral and legal philosophy, there exists a distinction between the concepts of freedom and license. The former deals with the rights of the individual; the latter covers the expressed permission (or lack thereof) for more than one individual to engage in an activity.
As a result, freedoms usually include rights which are usually recognized (often, not always, in an unconditional manner) by the government (and access to which is theoretically enforced against any and all interferences). Licenses, on the other hand, are distributed to individuals who make use of a specific item, expressing the permission to use the item or service under specified, conditional terms and boundaries of usage."
None of what you are talking about makes any sense. the definition of terms you are using doesnt vibe, and i fail to see how most people in the west want " license" over freedom?
All other reasons you mention are the byproduct of what the West made China out to be in their role as their factory or a defensive measure against foreign intervention.
So government corruption between the chinese government and the western governments is the problem. well no shit, ive been trying to say this ten entire time.
Also when you say suicide nets you're talking about Foxconn, the Taiwanese company that does this (inb4 "so you're saying Taiwan isn't China?").
Yea, what does it matter? are you saying that everything else i said doesnt exist after you pick out this incident? because it doesnt work like that
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@qiqiaoqin1648 i noticed you still havent responded to what i talked about in previous comments.
I also noticed you avoided answering me about my "fairy tails" question. strange you avoided that one a couple times...
" just repeats stuff a cult says"
what are you talking about?
"The only things he could really hate on China for are (from the top of my head) censorship of public speech, authoritarianism, relatively more state-regulation of religion than the West, and a government-first policy when it comes to economics. "
Yeah you seem to miss out on the toxic waste dumping, pollution levels, low wages, suicide nets, people being disappeared, the social credit system, Property theft, espionage, currency manipulation, and a few more im not going to type out because you will ignore it...
" The average Chinese doesn't mind because they value more unity and stability over more license, because let's be honest, when people from the West talk about freedom they really mean license"
License? like the government allowing you to do something? i shouldn't have to ask my governments permission do do anything. sorry i wont want to live like a Chinese locust
"Everything else I believe @Theos CA covered already. Hell I only commented because this is the first time someone actually brought up constructive points to deflect the attacks on China, otherwise I would just ignore most of the comments when Tarl talks about China.
"
ANd you ignore everything i talked about and dismissed it. you are shilling for china and i can only assume because you are a Chinese shill
"
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@Inisfad
AHEM
"so·cial·ism
"
/ˈsōSHəˌlizəm/
noun
"a p o l i t i c a l and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
"
synonyms: leftism, Fabianism, syndicalism, consumer socialism, utopian socialism, welfarism;
"policy or practice based on the p o l i t i c a l and economic theory of socialism.
"
synonyms: leftism, Fabianism, syndicalism, consumer socialism, utopian socialism, welfarism; More
(in Marxist theory) a transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of Communism.
sooo where do you want to go from here?
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@StofStuiver
"So you are saying businesses will use cheapest labor?"
It is a matter of scale. small scale, you would see a better return in house, but in large scale its a little different. It all comes down to greed but its generally the larger businesses that end up being a problem again
Doesnt that apply in a region aswell? How about child laborers? And who is going to regulate it? Can businesses import laborers?
Well if you couldnt outsource without hefty penalties it would make it more cost effective to work inside the country, plus we already have the base understanding of preserving the environment and having just labor laws. If we stopped the endless waves of immigrants and actually removed the millions of people already here you might see some changes in overall business practices if you couldnt get away with undercutting local labor with cheap foreign labor
"Its a bit odd, bc i take a new direction and the first thing you do is regulate free trade."
nothing is ever " free" if there are no rules, it isnt a game to be played fairly, its a free for all.
"But youre still unwilling to see money flows up i take it. So i have to type an entire comparison to show it."
I am 20 yo.
My father was a succesful fisherman. I inhereted 2 fishing boats and a nice wad of capital. Impossible? No, i just skip a bit.
In my region there are 10 fishermen, 8 have 1 boat and 2 have 2 boats.
I am eager to expand. I have enough money to buy out 1, which i do. I still have a bit of capital left, but not enough to buy out another.
I have an uncle as captain on my 2nd boat. My dad already had that setup. We have an arrangement that works fine:
We deduct cost of operating that boat; crew, oil, repairs, etc. What is left is normally profit. He gets 40%. I take 60. The boat is already payed off.
I make a same arrangement for the 3rd boat with a cousin. This boat needs to be payed off. From the 60% i take, i calculated that i need to deduct 1/3 (20 % of total) to win my capital back in 10 years.
There are now 12 boats, of which 3 are mine.
I am a great fisherman, or i am very lucky, who knows. I tell my captains where to go fish. We are usually in the top 3 of fish caught.
My income compared to single boat fishermen is : 100% + 60% + 40% = 200%. I save a lot of money.
After 5 years i hear of one fisher with 2 boats that he wants out. He isnt doing well, so i make him an offer. I need to go to the bank to get some financing, but it is still profitable to me.
(Sounds like your father worked really hard to pass on something valuable to you, and you did well with it. would have been a shame if the government came in and took 45% of the cash in taxes)
.... time passes
I am now 45 years old. I own 9 of 12 boats. I have financing running on 4 boats still and im making a good amount of money. There is plenty of room to expand even more.
Im thinking about starting my own intermediary company (sort of a fish aution) to skip the middle man. Talk to the bank. Yes i can.
So i put a captain on my boat aswell and focus on running that business.
I do better than the intermediary that i used to sell my fish to, bc hey, i have the goods. They are trying all sorts of things, but they are too late. Its mine.
They go out of business. I didnt make friends, but who cares.
I force the remaining fishermen to work for me, or go sell their fish elsewhere. They eventually agree.
I am now 60 years old. Own all boats and the intermediary. No one even dares to start a new boat in this region.
skipping some time
I am now 85. All boats and the intermediary have been fully payed for. And i have millions in capital to throw around.
My son inherets the business. And he is going to expand even more. We can easily get the next region, who are all single boat captains.
How can you not see money always flows up???
I mean sounds great and all but what would you even do to prevent this? are you denying you worked hard to earn what you have? Did you not create wealth by doing a job better and more profitable? are you not employing others? wealth isnt always something stolen, it is also created. how much and what right does the government have to take it? as long as you arent over fishing the location to the point of scarcity i dont see what the problem is? Isnt the whole idea to give your future family more than your previous generations?
On a secondary point, most wealthy end up losing their wealth after 2 or 3 generations. Mostly stemming from not understanding the value of the money, and the work that went into creating this vast wealth, and it is usually mishandled and squandered. People who are given things dont know what its like to earn them. you respect things more when you have to earn/make/create things yourself so you take better care of them than you would if you were just handed everything.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-why-90-of-rich-people-squander-their-fortunes-2017-04-23
So how is your scenario inherently bad? what would you want changed about it? its not as if you are throwing out the native fishermen and hiring foreign labor at below market wages, or selling at a loss to undercut your competitors because you have deep pockets and they dont. And i still dont even understand how this is " always moving up" its not taking wealth from other people, its creating wealth from your own actions. I would not feel the need to overtly and horribly tax you or your hypothetical family as you pass it on.
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@StofStuiver As close to free as you can, within regional/countrywide limits of course.
To elaborate and try and get you to see what i mean, let me give you some personal examples.
I want to sell cars, well i cant sell more than X without the government stepping in and forcing me to pay for and buy licenses.
I want open a bar/arcade, dozens of permits, licenses, fees, regulation...
I simply want to sell things on ebay, i STILL have to pay the government
I want to simply earn a living, government takes a third of my income, and small percentages more every time i use my money.
How am i supposed to get ahead if the government keeps me down?
Seems to me that all these things dont seem to bother those who already have the money and resources needed or have the power to lobby, but keep the regular joe out of starting a business
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@StofStuiver
(condensed bits for ease of reading, its useful to try and articulate oneself to understand what and why the believe what they do)
what you are describing is the creation of a monopoly" > Which is the inevitable result of capitalism.
How? How does this come about? I bet it has something to do with government interference
" which usually government breaks up, but oops, the government is corrupt and loves bribes!" > Indeed. Which means they recognize the problem. And indeed, which they do not do enough.
What are you talking about? these super monopolies and international monoliths would never exist without government...
"But there is another problem, ..... A company does not keep a growing pot of gold. It reinvests, does research and pays out a profit. It pays this profit to its shareholders. And there is no anti-monopoly legislation against that.
Why would there be? that has nothing to do with a monopoly? and again, using profits to reinvest and grow isnt bad, and isnt required to be infinite at all... i dont know why you keep thinking that
"It is however... And it are these ppl, often through investment companies, that buy more companies, etc etc. > which leads to the accumulation of wealth (and resources) to an increasing smaller amount of people, while the rest of the people only lose. "
And how is this different than any other system ever? what you are describing is the nature of power.... wealth=resources=power doesnt matter what gaems you play
"And that is why you need a gov that 'taxes' these people. If with that money you reinject that into a capitalist (or other) economy, the money keeps flowing and it can be sustainable. But govs have not done that enough and are now indeed bought and payed for by these ppl, thus undermining all states. And only for their own benefit."
What does this have to do with the oppressive tax system we already have and the wasteful spending? the problem is government getting in the way of the people...
How is someone supposed to save for a house or save up for a business venture if every paycheck they get, the government takes a third? Good t hing the government controls everything.....
"Imo there should be a hard cap on what ppl can own"
Nope sorry, that is quite anti freedom
How many Bugatti veyrons does any one person need? And how many jets? Its become ridiculous.
And yet people get paid to build them, service them, use them... what is ridiculous? maybe we should stop paying actors and sports players so much money then? maybe we should stop supporting the people that do this shit? why do you feel the desire to control other people?
"I wasnt saying all of capitalism is bad. Which is where you seem to be steering me. No. It is good that ppl have an incentive, that they get rewarded for working hard. For making a greater effort than the next guy (who may be a lazy bum), for intellect and invention. All great and needed. That is not the argument i was making. I was only pointing at the inevitable result of capitalism, which also fails (unless you regulate it of course, which all countries do, but not in the right way/ not enough)"
Oh so you want to give government more authority over things? even though they themselves who are the ones creating these problems? its almost like government creates problems for it to solve at the cost of tax money.... weird, but yeah lets keep giving them more power and authority
"What i meant is that , if its not regulated as described above, it needs to grow to be sustainable."
No it doesnt? you have yet to explain this one to me...
"Because of those monopolies, above, accumulation would occur."
and this is because why? the government allows this to occur because it is in governments best interest
"This can be countered only in an unlimited resource situation ......... So there is no unlimited situation anymore. Which means capitalism cannot be anymore, unless it is regulated strongly. (getting the money back from the few and insert back in economy)"
Still having zero idea what you are talking about... you seem to assume that there is a maximum total amount of wealth that can be had... this is not true at all, and if we didnt unelected invisible hands in charge of currency.......
"Bc that is what the problem is. Again, i never said all of capitalism is bad. On the contrary."
Gov is the problem
"Which is a wise stance.
"
and if more people did this then we probably wouldnt be in the position we are in now.
"But you do pay for your wife and kids....And we do not refuse to pay for our social group. We just do it, bc we think it is also in our own interest and expect that they will do it for us, when we need it.
right... and heres the " but"
"Now, where the boundary of that social group is, will be subjective, but as ppl used to live, everywhere, in tribes of differing sizes, it was not abnormal to share with tribe members.
right...
"The problem arises when we are faced with either great poverty, which will result in a decreasing size of that social group we are willing to pay for. And when our group is polluted with non group members... (we allready covered that i think and agreed... i think?)
What? what the hell does this mean???
"This part was about your unwillingness to pay taxes. Which i understand, bc you do not see your 'countrymen' as members of your group. But if your countrymen would be members of your group, you would. So you are not against taxes (helping a collective, of which you are part of), but your problem is with the group. (which is not your prefered group)
"
No my problem is that millions of poor third worlders get to hop in, get pampered, given everything they need, loans, healthcare, and they pop out tons of kids, they all are now " citizens" and can collect more benefits... im tired of paying for bullshit... men pay more taxes on average than women, and the vast majority comes from white males. im tired of the entire world on my fucking back...
" Indeed. With the addition that Europe had 1 homogenous group per country and the US had 2 (ot counting indigenous ppl). The white Americans and the descendants of the American black slaves. And that was more than enough problems right there."
wish we sent them all back tbh... would have saved endless nightmares... but then again, it was all part of the plan
"It seems we are not far apart at all. And i was wondering why just now. Imo, from what i experienced with Americans, a lot react strongly on critique on capitalism."
Because the idea of capitalism isnt how you keep describing, and this always comes on the topic of more taxes or welfare or more social programs...
"Often i am immediately shoved in the communism corner, So i was wondering why. Is it included in Americans idea of capitalism that you oppose monopolies and it therefor goes without saying?"
Because this country was created and became what it was by the free enterprise of the individuals who made up the country. then the government kept getting involved and things would keep getting worse
"And then, what is the stance as you see it, on ppl that are filthy rich because of it. And i dont mean ppl with 10 million, or even 1 billion, but above that."
Who are you talking about? you mean the movie producers/hollywood/sports/heads of industry? or are you talking about soros, rothschild or most of the others i dont know of who have more control over the world than any government? because i think you can answer that yourself
"Does it also go without saying that these should not be allowed such richess? It is odd to me, bc in Europe its like everyone knows capitalism leads to this and that, so there is hardly any discussion over it."
what are you talking about???
"And since we had all these social mechanics in our economy, that doesnt mean we do not have competition and capitalism , or are socialistic. Far from it."
But you still have uber rich over there and oppressive laws? i dont see how its all that much different
Anyway, we are nearing the end of our discussion and i would like to thank you for remaining civil ;] Much appreciated!
no worries, whats the point of talking about something if you dont intend to in good faith try to change someones mind
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@StofStuiver
"Money flows up, bc of profit over other ppls labor. That capital is then used to destroy competition, either by making them go bankrupt and or by buying them out, leading to higher profits and upscaling of that business."
what you are describing is the creation of a monopoly. which usually government breaks up, but oops, the government is corrupt and loves bribes!
"The proof is obvious, when you look at distribution of wealth. That is never gained by personal labor. Its not hard if you want to see it.
"
If i create a good, or begin a service, then begin to be paid for this service, and eventually grow to a chain is that now capitalism? Now there is a good or service that is in demand, i now have the position to create jobs for others.
"Capitalism is based on growth, bc that money flows up. It can only be maintained succesfully if economies grow."
No it can only be successful if it makes money, not necessarily " grow". owning a small chain of service stations isnt based on infinite growth. Honestly it seems like you cant see capitalism without only seeing megacorps and government helped monopolies.
"And that means it can only grow in an unlimited resource situation (which the US had and Europe lost long ago). If resources are limited, capitalism always crashes.
"
what? what does that even mean? you havent shown me how " capitalism needs infinite growth". Having everything controlled by a government, or a giant multinational corp is just oligarchy in everything but name
Let me rephrase it:
"If your wife needs to go to the MD, will you say no?
"
well of course
"If your kids need a bike to go to school, will you say no?
"
actually yes. id get a broken run down bike and either fix it myself, or my kid can help and learn some life lessons about how to care for your personal things, not exactly one to promote companies that do not share my interests
Yet your kids nor wife generate own income.
If only there wasnt this whole thing where women demanded equality in the work place and suddenly the workforce doubled and no one could afford a one income family anymore.... almost like it was planned or something..
"That is the social group. In a homogenous society that is the collective principle. You pay bc you trust the collective is beneficial. The US isnt a homogenous group. European countries were. Thats the difference"
Right and what im saying is that it was far more homogenous when it was several groups who were very similar. now the country is being flooded by indians, chinese, and south americians as well as africians...
at least we can agree on something though.. mass immigration helps no one by governments and corporate monopolies
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