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神州 Shenzhou
Cyrus Janssen
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Comments by "神州 Shenzhou" (@Shenzhou.) on "How 10 Years in China Changed Me Forever" video.

The fact that the current US Ambassador to China doesn't even speak Mandarin, indicates just how much the US knows about China.
34
I had the opportunity to learn English and study abroad, and I was appalled at how many Westerners (but not all) have a negative perception of China. Even after I bring up China's achievements, some Westerners (not all) just laugh at me, called me brain wash or tell me to "Go Back to China!", even though many of them never actually set foot in China themselves.
29
@eliotanderson6554 You said: "Unlike han supremacy or domination in china..." Ethnic minorities in China actually enjoy more privileges than Han. Ethnic minorities like Tibetan, Uighur, Mongolian, aren't subject to the One-Child Policy (unlike Han), and they enjoy tax exemptions, government subsidies, priority in healthcare, and education advantages.
24
Singapore has been governed by authoritarian single-party PAP for 57 years, much like how China has been governed by CPC for 72 years. It's this long-term leadership that enables a country to plan long-term.
21
@rufanuf1 Taiwan has been under the authoritarian single-party rule of Kuomintang (Guomindang) for more than half its life. For decades, the KMT ruled Taiwan with an iron fist, and Chiang Kai Shek was a dictator who jailed/executed dissidents and political rivals (whether real or perceived). Yet Taiwan flourished under KMT rule, resulting in the Taiwan Miracle. Only in the 1990s when democracy was introduced to Taiwan, did Taiwan's economic growth became more modest.
18
@HauTran-sunfromsouth What Brian Berletic is saying is that some Anglo-Saxons come to Asia expecting to be showered with adoration by the locals. But when the locals no longer treat them this way, they become spiteful against their host country. Examples include: serpentza and laowhy.
18
@eliotanderson6554 You talk about Han supremacy or domination in China, but have you seen how the Hindu in India behave?
17
Some Chinese Malaysians and Singaporeans (but not everyone) tend to have a colonial mentality of worshipping Anglo-Saxon Culture, while harboring disdain for any "non-white" culture (including their own).
16
@PrimeV88 You said: "The world needed a factory to produce goods and China positioned itself very well." So according to your words, China was fulfilling a need, then how's that at the expense of the West? You said: "namely India which has the potential to become the world’s next electronics and tech manufacturing factory." Unlikely though. China is already the world's electronics and tech maufacturing hub, what advantage does India enjoy that China doesn't? Are Indian workers willing to work for the same low wages as Chinese workers?
15
@rufanuf1 You said: "Well your "Chinese heritage" has little to do with the CCP and it's imperialistic ambitions." China has 5,000 years of history and is among the world's oldest "continuous" civilization still alive today, while other ancient civilizations like Egypt, Rome and Mesopotamia eventually succumbed to history. Throughout our long history, China has always been under the authoritarian rule of Emperors and the Imperial Court. Even today, China is under the leadership of President Xi and the CPC, and this system closely emulates the system of ancient China.
14
@jamesgathings6364 Pretending not to know would be an advantage. But not knowing the language would put yourself in a disadvantage.
13
@TA-pl8vi But if you're the US Ambassador to China specifically, wouldn't it hurt to be able to at least speak Mandarin? There are plenty of Americans who can speak Mandarin, why not assign one to be ambassador?
12
@Chishio Chishio You said: "He works for chinese government." Cyrus videos spread the positive message of Building Bridges, Not Walls between the US and China, so are you saying that the CPC endorses this peaceful message?
11
@KarMengChow Jon is right to a certain extend. Previously, I visited Singapore and spoke Mandarin to the locals. Some Singaporeans (but not all) started treating me coldly (especially when they hear the mainland accent). But when I switched to English, many Singaporeans started warming up to me. (Of course, this is just my personal experience that's all, and not necessarily reflective of all Singaporeans.)
11
@jon_nomad I agree with you. I repeated this same experiment in Hong Kong and gotten similar results. Some Hong Kong people (not all) treated me coldly when I spoke Mandarin, but when I switched to speaking English, many started welcoming me warmly. Colonial mentality does exist (to a certain degree) in both Singapore and Hong Kong, due to their status as former British colonies.
9
@worltrader5948 Pork is actually healthier than beef. Pork is typically lowest in calories and saturated fat when compared with other red meats.
9
@OpheliaPG Sadly, some Filipinos (but not all) tend to have the colonial mentality as a result of Philippines being a former American colony. The Americans had promised to grant independence to the Philippines if they would side with them against Spain. But after the American-Spanish war, the Americans did not honor their promise, instead they claimed Philippines for themselves, resulting in the American-Philippines war in which a quarter million Filipinos died.
9
@rufanuf1 You said: "We are allowed to have opinions. We do not try to "hush" the opposition." Is that so? Well why is it that you seem to impose your view onto others, at times even resorting to hurling ad hominen fallacies against others, just because our views differ from yours? I've explained in detail how Taiwan was ruled under the KMT (and mind you, this is in keeping with Chinese heritage) and Taiwan's economy flourished under it. Taiwan's economic growth slowed after democracy was introduced to the island in the 1990s. I mean, if the system isn't broken, why fix it? Taiwan was flourishing without Western-style democracy, then is there really a need to implement such a system? Because Westerners say so?
9
@benswimmin2672 Australia has the rather unflattering nickname of "America's Deputy Sheriff in Asia", and the AUKUS deal confirms this.
9
@rufanuf1 You said: "Well that's the whole point of democracy." Throughout China's 5,000 years of history, there have never been such a system where the ordinary people are permitted to directly participate in political decision-making, through voting and elections. This Western-style democracy is a foreign concept to China, whereas the current CPC government closely emulates the strong centralized government system that successfully ruled China for millennia. Yet earlier you claimed: "Well your "Chinese heritage" has little to do with the CCP"?
7
@rufanuf1 "神州 Shenzhou LOL Typical Chinese or "Ferengi" mindset. It's all about "Economic Growth". A meaningless term for the average individual." Economic growth means that the average individual becomes wealthier, how is it meaningless? Taiwan's economic success was built under authoritarian single-party KMT leadership in the 1960s and 70s, not through the democratic reforms of 1990s. Even in mainland China, poverty alleviation efforts undertaken by the CPC have resulted in China eliminating extreme poverty, so how is this feat meaningless for the average individual?
7
Cyrus Jansen's videos promote the message of Building Bridges, Not Walls between the US and China, and more people should hear this peaceful message instead listening to the message of war (promoted by the West).
7
Prof Zhang Weiwei describes China's government as a combination of "Selection + Election" Selection: Competent politicians are selected through trials, tests, exams and promoted accordingly. This meritocratic system is derived from the ancient Chinese Imperial Exam system. Election: Not only must politicians be smart, but they have to garner the approval of their peers (i.e other CPC members) and get elected. This democratic system is adopted from the West.
7
@rufanuf1 "神州 Shenzhou You said: "China has 5,000 years of history and is among the world's oldest "continuous" civilization... That's what you have been taught." What have you been taught then? China's history IS our Chinese heritage, and throughout China's thousands of years of history, China's political system has always bene one of a strong central government (i.e the Emperor and the Imperial Court). And the PRC's current system under President Xi Jinping and the CPC closely emulates the system of ancient China, because that's how China's been successfully governed for thousands of years.
6
The song names for the two traditional Chinese instruments (Guqin and Guzheng) are different. For Guqin 古琴, the song is Flowing Water 《流水》 For Guzheng 古筝, the song is High Mountains and Flowing Waters 《高山流水》
6
@NotYourChannel23 Well, Cyrus' videos have the message of Building Bridges, Not Walls between the US and China. So if you're saying that the CPC loves this peaceful message, doesn't that me China supports cooperation not confrontation?
5
@rufanuf1 About "stealing ideas", it's not as though Chinese have never invented anything of our own. Chinese invented the Four Great Inventions which have revolutionized the world we live in. But do Chinese complain about Westerners making use of Chinese inventions?
5
@rufanuf1 "神州 Shenzhou We were not taught the intricacies of Chinese history at school." Then what makes you presume to judge China when you weren't even taught its history? China has 5,000 years of history, has witnessed the rise and fall of numerous other nations and empires, and survived to the modern times relatively intact. Throughout our long history, we've always been under the authoritarian rule of Emperors and the Imperial Court, and the current government under the CPC closely encapsulates this ancient form of governance that has served China for millennia. Why then should China abandon our successful form of govern and adopt Western-style democracy? Because Westerners say so? Yet earlier you claimed: "Well your "Chinese heritage" has little to do with the CCP"?
5
@renebarrow.virtualreality About the stereotypes of mainladers being loud and boisterous, that's just part of Chinese culture. Many Hong Kongers tend to speak Cantonese loudly themselves. At times, it almost sounds like they are arguing in Cantonese (when they are not). It's because Hong Kong is a densely populated region and the people there have to shout to be heard over the city noise. It's the same with many mainland Chinese cities being crowded.
5
@ShinobiShaman "Hey, if you made it there that long without getting imprisoned or executed, you did okay my man." If you want to talk about prison populations, then America has the world's largest prison population. So statistically speaking, one is more likely to end up imprisoned in the US than in China.
5
@Chishio Chishio You're saying that he works for the Chinese government, but Cyrus' message is about peaceful cooperation between the US and China, then isn't this a positive message for the world?
4
@rufanuf1 You said: "The idea of China or Russia taking up that role chills me to the bone, because there answer to policing nations will be simply to annex them..." China has never intended to be the global police, and from what I know, neither has Russia. At the most, both China and Russia want is for return of historical territory that was originally China's or Russia's, such as Taiwan or Crimea. It's funny how you conveniently overlook the US wars while projecting them onto China or Russia instead. It's boils down to a combination of the Red Scare (fear of communism) and the Yellow Peril (fear of being overrun by Asians) mindset that's fueling Russophobic and Sinophobic sentiment in the West today. Otherwise, for what reason would you harbor such negative attitudes towards Russia and China?
4
@rufanuf1 "神州 Shenzhou We have a saying in "the west". Absolute power corrupts absolutely"." But throughout human history, most human societies gravitated towards authoritarian forms of government, where political power is not in the hands of many, but instead concentrated in the hands of the few, be it the nobles (aristocracy), priests (theocracy) or kings and emperors (monarchy). It's because these few people were educated and politically savvy enough to make political decisions for the whole country, while the ignorant masses were kept far away from politics. In fact, democracy itself wasn't even popular outside of Greece/Rome among the other ancient civilizations. Most countries adopted some form of authoritarian rule, like the examples I've given earlier.
4
@Chishio Chishio Why does Cyrus include sponsors on his videos, if according to you he works for the Chinese government? It just doesn't make sense.
4
@KarMengChow "神州 Shenzhou too bad there is a saying once a slave, always a stooge." Mental chains are much harder to break than physical chains.
4
The colonial mentality continues to afflict many in Hong Kong, causing them to worship Anglo-Saxon culture while harboring disdain for any "non-Anglo" culture (including their own). Even though Hong Kong has been physically decolonized, the decolonization of the mind still needs time, in order to heal the mental wounds inflicted by the colonizer on the minds of the colonized.
4
@vivavivo5071 Not that I know of.
3
@rufanuf1 You said: "Whats-more when you look at Chinese culture, yes there is great respect for family etc etc....but sadly there is little to no respect for anyone else." Respect has to be earned. If no respect is given to China, then frankly speaking, why should China offer respect in return? The West keeps on bringing up China's internal affairs in Xinjiang, Tibet, Hong Kong, etc, while they refuse to pay attention to domestic issues affecting their own country? You said: "OK its a functional society, but one that seems devoid of all wider social constructs of decency. It's "dog eat dog world." if your Chinese." How so? One of the CPC's founding political slogan is "Common Prosperity", aiming to bolster social equality and economic equity. China's poverty alleviation efforts have resulted in lifting millions of people out of poverty over the past decades. According to the World Bank, more than 850 million Chinese people have been lifted out of extreme poverty; China's poverty rate fell from 88 percent in 1981 to 0.7 percent in 2015, as measured by the percentage of people living on the equivalent of US$1.90 or less per day in 2011 purchasing price parity terms, which still stands in 2022
3
@rufanuf1 Taiwan has been under the authoritarian single-party rule of Kuomintang (Guomindang) for more than half its life. For decades, the KMT ruled Taiwan with an iron fist, and Chiang Kai Shek was a dictator who jailed/executed dissidents and political rivals (whether real or perceived). Y Yet Taiwan flourished under KMT rule, resulting in the Taiwan Miracle. Between 1952 and 1982, economic growth was on average 8.7 percent, and between 1983 and 1986 at 6.9 percent. Taiwan GDP grew by 360 percent between 1965 and 1986, and the global industrial production output grew a further 680 percent between 1965 and 1986. All this was achieved under single-party KMT rule. Only in the 1990s, when democracy was introduced to Taiwan, that Taiwan's economic growth became more modest. Today, Taiwan's economy is stagnant, wages are stagnant, cost of living is rising, unemployment is rising, and many Taiwan graduates seek jobs in the mainland or in Singapore.
3
@rufanuf1 About Nationalism, you're not even American yourself, yet you rush to defend US involvement in wars across the globe, then where does this "installed national pride" come from? Whereas I am Chinese and I love my country, yet when I bring up China's achievements under the CPC, I get labelled as having installed national pride?
3
@rufanuf1 Have you actually stopped to question why is it that you seem to be able to overlook whatever the US does, even though by your own admission, you're not even American yourself? If you claim that one good thing about democracies is the ability to point out mistakes, but if no action is being taken to correct said mistakes, then how exactly is the system going to evolve?
3
@rufanuf1 It's quite apparent from a global view that the West is in decline and that the East is rising. Why do you seem to think democracy is the best form of governance, given its inability to produce competent leaders?
3
@rufanuf1 "神州 Shenzhou Prey tell what are these four great inventions?" Paper and Printing have made the transcribing and transmission of knowledge much easier. The Compass has made navigation through bad weather conditions much easier. And Gunpowder has made a huge impact on the way modern wars are fought.
3
@rufanuf1 You said: "I agree democracy is no panacea for solving the problems of a global community or civilization. Perhaps you can say the same" China never intended to impose our form of governance onto other countries, unlike the former USSR (or the USA with democracy). President Xi has publicly stated that China's political system is not for export. “We will not import other countries’ models, and will not export the China model. We will provide more opportunities for the world through our development." - President Xi Jinping You said: "All I know for a fact is that in recent human history it is always authoritarian states with dictatorial (criminally corrupt) leaders that start global wars." Iraq War, Afghan War, Syrian War, Libyan War, etc were by Western democratic countries intervention in those countries.
3
@rufanuf1 If we draw upon the wisdom of history, the West today appears to resemble the Republic of Rome during its decline. If democracy is said to be able to fix this, why hasn't it done so?
3
@tonyzhan8668 The British not only colonized countries/regions, but they also colonized the minds of the locals, and even though countries have physically decolonized, the decolonization of the mind is still underway.
3
They don't necessarily need to warm to China, but they need to at least perceive beyond what the Western media tells them about China.
3
@rufanuf1 You said: "Well maybe but almost without exception those wars were started in the name of the GLOBAL community under the rules of the UN." Take the Iraq War for example, and the UN Secretary General, Kofi Annan, has stated that the Iraq War was illegal and breached UN Charter. Mr Annan said that the invasion was not sanctioned by the UN security council nor in accordance with the UN's founding charter. You said: "I would understand if the US is getting fed up with being the world's global policeman. All they do is get criticism for trying to enforce rules that every nation signed up to a generation ago." The US is not even a signatory to the International Court of Justice in the Hague. After the court ruled that the US's covert war against Nicaragua was in violation of international law (Nicaragua v. United States), the United States withdrew from compulsory jurisdiction in 1986 to accept the court's jurisdiction only on a discretionary basis. Or take the I.C.C for example, and the US is not a signatory to it. Or even the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), and the US does not ratify it. Yet the US is enforcing rules that the US itself didn't sign on to?
3
@rufanuf1 I did answer you question, my answer was "Where I studied English is not important. Western countries adopt the same view towards China and perceive our country as "the enemy"," Just look at your posts, you accuse China of the possibility of "global domination" while you overlook what the US is doing across the globe. You said: "The Aussies have been insulting their ancestors for centuries, the Brits just laugh at their overt nationalism. That is humility and I see that as something seriously lacking in Chinese culture," Why on Earth should Chinese culture be more like Australian culture and British culture? Our ancestors were actual people that lived, worked, and died in these very lands that we call China today, why should we repay our ancestor's hard work and sacrifice with insults? It clearly makes no sense why you think Chinese should try and be like Westerners.
2
@rufanuf1 So you've admitted that the current hegemony exists? Then why are you accusing China and Russia of "trying to build empire" while justifying the wars in which the current hegemon waged? Yet you cannot see the double standards where you accuse another country of "potentially" becoming a hegemon, while defending the current one?
2
@rufanuf1 You said: "Have you ever considered to challenge your own beliefs? Are you self reflective enough?" You're describing the fundamental Marxist philosophy of Dialectical Materialism. Karl Marx believed that for every argument (or thesis) is there is an opposing dialectical counter-argument (or antithesis) and the two will combine to form a new argument (a synthesis). Materialism _is the belief that our surroundings shape our ideas, and its the opposite of _Idealism (which is the belief that ideas shape our environment). So Dialectical Materialism is the pitting of arguments against counterarguments using facts gleamed from the environment, not from ideas. "Remember I am only telling you what I see with my eyes. Prove me wrong...show me you have a thought process that goes beyond your ability to read." Then tell me, what do you see with your eyes? It's apparent from your snide remarks that you don't consider me an equal, then all information that I've presented will amount to nothing if your mind refuses to listen.
2
@rufanuf1 Excuse me, but what's wrong with sharing a holiday resort with 50 Russians? Aren't Russians people as well? Or are you implying that you should have the whole resort to yourself? And what's wrong with Chinese spitting contests held all over the world? I thought you were all about freedoms yet why is it when Chinese people do things, you take offense against us? Chinese people are free to travel overseas for study, work and play. Everyone has heard of Chinese tourists visiting your countries and spending coin on your tourist industry. Western schools and universities are positively flooded with Chinese international students, studying the same topics as their peers. Yet what makes you think Chinese people aren't free, or are suppressed under the government?
2
@rufanuf1 I'm being as humble as can be. For example, I've never resorted to hurling derogatory remarks against you for your views, but you've responded with personal insults, attacking me personally instead of attacking my views. I've also noticed that in your other posts to others on this comment thread, you made numerous snide comments against them as well. You keep on painting China as being against the West, but China today is currently at peace and not at war with any countries. Instead of making war upon others, China is building infrastructure like roads, railways, highways, bridges, tunnels, etc in other developing countries. Whereas the US has been involved in Iraq War, Syrian War, Libyan War, Yemen War, even in the 21st century, yet you're saying China can't be responsible with our new found power?
2
@rufanuf1 You said: "Having a good grasp on history is fine, but it's of little use in a political debate, yet that is the method your trying to use" Arguably, there is no greater teacher than history itself. History shows us what works, what didn't and what mistakes were made. If we look at the political systems of human societies for the past 1000-2000 years, virtually all of them gravitated towards an authoritarian form, where political power is concentrated in the nobles (aristocracy), priests (theocracy) or kings and emperors (monarchy). Western-style democracy actually has a history of failure, and Athens, Sparta and Greece had early forms of democracy that weren't successful. Democracy itself wasn't even popular outside of Greece, and didn't spread throughout the rest of the ancient world (whom preferred authoritarian forms of governance). Modern Liberal Democracy is a different breed from ancient democracies, but this means that it only has 100-200 years of history, and hasn't undergone the test of time, unlike say, China's 5,000 years of strong central government rule. You said: "In many ways I am demonstrating to you that the upbringing of someone in a western democracy allows us to have an opinion beyond what our schools or textbooks teach us." If that's really the case, then why is it you are unable to accept the fact that China is doing well under a non-Western democratic government such as the Chinese government? I thought you should be able to accept different points of views, yet you seem unable to accept my view (which obviously differs from yours)? You said: "Reciting facts is not creative, its closer to "indoctrinated"." Reciting facts is citing scientific proof which can be verified.
2
@rufanuf1 Good news. Chinese President Xi spoke to Zelenskyy over the phone, indicating China's commitment to bring a peaceful resolution the Ukraine conflict.
2
@rufanuf1 While it's true that empires may entropy and decay throughout human history, the next form of government often follows the same authoritarian form of governance as in previous forms. Democracy was never actually popular in the ancient world outside of Greece. Even when peasants overthrew kings, oftentimes, they simply put another king in power, rather than grant democracy and voting rights to the vast majority of people. It's because history has shown such authoritarian systems to be stable if those in power are able to rule competently. And mind you, many of these authoritarian empires lead long lives, spanning at least a century or more. Here's some examples: Akkadian Empire (180 years), Armenian Empire (618 years), Babylonian Empire (1166 years), British Empire (300+ years), Egyptian Empire (473 years), etc. Therefore, I find it unrealistic to equate only the past 200 years of Western Democracy as somehow being reflective of the past 1000-2000 years of human history. My question is why look at history short-term instead of long-term?
2
@rufanuf1 Even if you look at China's history, China never had a policy of founding overseas colonies. Even during the Ming Dynasty, China had a powerful navy that visited other countries, and yet China did not found any overseas colonies, unlike the later European colonial powers.
2
@rufanuf1 Also, you claim that the West should "start applying the "eye for eye" "dog eat dog" doctrine of the Chinese" but when has that ever been part of Chinese doctrine? In actuality, Chinese government promotes win-win cooperation which are mutually beneficial as well as policies like "Common Prosperity" yet why is it you take such a negative view of Chinese policies?
2
@rufanuf1 Yet why is it that many people in the West (but not all) think of Chinese as being unable to govern ourselves? With our 5,000 of history as well as being among the world's oldest "continuous" civilization still alive today, China is one of the most successful countries in terms of longevity
2
@rufanuf1 It's no secret that Chinese are among the world's most intelligent and diligent of peoples. Chinese are no stranger to hard work, such as being rickshaw drivers, laborers (coolies), chefs (of Chinese restaurants), farmers, laundromat workers and other stereotypical Chinese blue-collar jobs. Even in white-collar jobs, Chinese can be doctors, lawyers, engineers, computer programmers, scientists, etc. There is literally no job too low or too high that Chinese aren't willing to do, or aren't qualified for.
2
@rufanuf1 Why is it that many Westerners aren't able to accept the rise of China? All good things eventually come to an end, and nobody says that the West has to be the dominant power and that's the end of the story. If China can someday surpass what the West has achieved, then we should strive to achieve this eventual goal.
2
@rufanuf1 You keep on claiming that somehow China will abuse its new found power, but where in China's history has world domination been in mind? During the Ming Dynasty for example, The Chinese navy was powerful and had sailed to Africa, India and the Middle East, but nowhere did China found any overseas colonies. In fact, it was the later Western colonial powers that started colonizing other countries, so why is it that you project onto China what Western powers have been doing for centuries?
2
@rufanuf1 So you agree about China being all set to resume our previous status as a superpower? At least we have something in agreement.
2
@rufanuf1 "神州 Shenzhou Sorry not only have you NOT proved any of my statements wrong." I already did. Especially that statement of yours that "the mindset of communism, which has demonstrated itself to limit innovation and creativity throughout human history" has been proven wrong with the Soviet launch of Sputnik. You said: "Do you honestly think someone should retort to your academia with more academia of their own to contest your defense of your political point?" Then honestly speaking what else do you respond with? You respond to my acadamia with more of your insults and derogatory remarks against me for my views, even though I've cited sources to substantiate my points where possible You said: "I use broad statements because they are my broad real life experiences of nearly 60 years and those experiences define my point of view," Pray tell, have you actually been to Russia or China and experienced life here for yourself?
2
@rufanuf1 So at least both of us agree on the subject of low approval rates in Western democracies at the moment. Then honestly speaking, why continue to support a political system that produces such inept leaders in the first place? On the other hand, throughout history, many authoritarian systems have produced great leaders (even in Europe) and even today, President Putin and President Xi enjoy high approval from Russians and Chinese.
2
@rufanuf1 "神州 Shenzhou That's a long post to make a "snide" remark," Look, you've been making derogatory remarks against me, claiming my perception of global reality is flawed, and that I'm revealing my ignorance, among other such insults. Why? Just because my views happen to differ from yours? I've cited numerous examples to illustrate my point, whereas you've not data to support yours. You just seemingly make claims without bothering to support them with evidence. You said: "However humanity and civilization was not built during the measly "5000 years" of Chinese accumulated "political experience"." China's 5,000 years of history is not enough? Then what on Earth makes you think 200 years of American history is enough to build humanity and civilization? What sort of double standards is this? You're only taking into account the past 100-200 years of human history, and ignoring the past 1000-2000 years of human history? Then you're being somewhat myopic in the sense that you're only looking at events short-term, instead of long-term. You said: "The US has barely no history at all! (And NO I am not American) But they have done more to lift the world out of poverty in the last 200 years than any other nation on Earth including helping China along the way!" Again, where's your data? According to the World Bank, China's poverty alleviation efforts have resulted in an unprecedented number of people being lifted out of poverty . And you're not even American yourself, yet you keep on singing their praises while ignoring their negative outcomes.
2
@rufanuf1 You said: "It's likely China will become isolated once again a bit like N Korea, and now it seems Russia. Either that or it will go for global domination," Seems like at this point, you're just projecting negative outcomes of China onto the future that's all, without any basis in reality. Right now, China is opening up, our industrial factories are restarting, and shipments of Chinese goods are resuming. Chinese tourists are packing our bags, and Chinese international students are planning to resume their studies overseas, then how is China being isolated? Decoupling at this point between China and the West is virtually impossible at this point. As for global domination, my gosh, where ever did you ever get such an idea? Where in China's 5,000 years of history has global domination ever been in mind? The irony is that you've established earlier that it is Western (and particularly the US) that domination exists, yet you somehow project on to China what the US is doing?
2
@rufanuf1 The Chinese government rules China because it's a meritocracy, where politicians are promoted base on performance. For example, President Xi Jinping has around 40 years of political experience under his belt, so that's why many Chinese feel that he's competent enough to govern our country of 1.5 billion (certainly no easy feat). Whereas in democracy, it's a popularity contest for the politician with the most charisma, and that's how Trump got elected in 2016, despite having no prior political experience. It happened once in 2016, then it can happen again in 2024. What then are the benefits of such a political system?
2
@rufanuf1 You said: "As it grows rich from joining in global capitalism will it use it's wealth for good or for bad?" China is using our newfound wealth for peaceful purposes, such as building infrastructure like roads, railways, highways, bridges, tunnels, ports, airports,_ etc in other developing countries. The Belt and Road Initiative is a prime example of China's various infrastructure projects located across the global. You said: "It seems mostly right now China's rulers wish to spit in the face of those that supported its rise back onto the global stage." How so? Chinese workers work hard to make products like smartphones, computers, electronics, appliances, etc, cheap and affordable to Americans. Think about the billions of dollars that Americans have saved on living expenses over the years, thanks to the affordability of Chinese goods. Money saved that can then be spent on other pursuits, like cars, housing, luxury brands, or necessities like rent, hospital bills, etc. Isn't that the reason why so many Americans often flock to Walmart for their everyday low prices? Because it saves them money? How is this "spitting in the face of those that supported it"?
2
@rufanuf1 Because the US hegemony has caused untold suffering in various wars such as Iraq War, Afghan War, Syrian War, Libyan War, Yemen War, and yet the huge death toll is just casually brushed aside by you just goes to show your double standards. Instead, you speak about hypothetical scenarios about Russia and China "trying to empire build" while ignoring the current world hegemon's activities.
2
@rufanuf1 I've noticed that you've never actually answered my question about the tragic loss of life in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria and Yemen, being somehow "justified" by the US just because its not over territorial claims. Millions of Iraqis have been killed as a result of the Iraq War, yet you claim its justified by the US just because its not a grab at territory.
2
@rufanuf1 China has produced many 5-year plans, 10-year plans, 20-year plans, etc to map out China's future in the years 2025, 2030, 2040, 2050. Our leaders can remain in power long term to see their plans for China bloom and come to fruition in the future. This is an advantage of China's form of governance. Whereas in the United States for example, the POTUS have to step down after 4-8 years, so they can only make short-term plans instead of long-term plans, spanning, say 10 years or more for America's future. This is a disadvantage of the US form of governance.
2
@rufanuf1 It's astounding how you keep on accusing Russia and China of "trying to empire build" while downplaying the US hegemonic rule. And you're not even American yourself, yet you rush to justify their wars? Why the double standards here?
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@rufanuf1 You said: "That is another product of the political culture and system of the country." So Australian culture and British culture is the product of their political culture and system of their government? Such cultures that insults ancestors and takes no pride in patriotism? Then why should China adopt Western-style democracy if it imparts such a decadent culture onto their peoples? In fact, both of us agreed that the inept leaders of the West are a product of their political system, then all the more reason why China should not adopt a Western-style democracy isn't it? Why should China adopt a political system that produces such incompetent leaders?
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@rufanuf1 You said: "At one point I even said you seemed to almost show some humility (I think now I was wrong)." I was being humble, but when you kept on hurling derogatory remarks against me for my views, and making ad hominen fallacies (i.e attacking me personally, instead of attacking my points) then why should I continue to be humble in the face of such snide remarks? If you don't respect someone, why should you expect to be shown respect in return? You said: "Correct China is not a free market and the world is slowly waking up to that fact." China never claimed to follow the principles of a free market economy, it's people like you who claim China copied the Western business model, when this is clearly not the case. In fact, the West claims to follow free market principles, yet NATO countries are imposing a price cap on Russian oil, instead of letting market forces determine the price of oil, then who is the one going against their own principles here? You said: "The CCP are basically taking all the vulnerability's in the western model and trying to exploit them to gain power." Well, then shouldn't the West focus on patching up those vulnerabilities, instead of singling out China? China never even proclaimed to follow the Western model in the first place, it's your Western countries that chose this model.
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@rufanuf1 You said: "Either way today, and in the most recent generation and in this century, all China has largely been is the worlds factory," With those words, you've just contradicted your earlier claim that (quoting your words): "The world as it is today, civilization as it is today is NOT a product of Chinese Innovation or Chinese culture." The fact that China is the factory of the world, means that Chinese innovation and Chinese culture (especially work culture) is what contributed to global development, then can't you realize your contradictory statements? You said: "That may not be any bad thing, but rest assured China was asleep and may well of stayed asleep if it wasn't for the invitation to the party offered by other developed capitalist nations in the last 50 years or so." What invitation are you talking about?
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@rufanuf1 So Western democracies get incompetent leaders because they deserve it? Then why are you continuing to praise such a system that produces such inept leaders in the first place? And it's funny how you hype up the Russia and China as somehow "trying to empire build" when it's the US that struggling to maintain its hegemonic rule, through wars in the Middle East (that you conveniently downplay).
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@rufanuf1 Why do you keep on claiming Russia and China are "trying to empire build" while overlooking the US involvement in wars across the globe? You're not even American yourself, yet you consistently defend their every involvement in war? And you project on to Russia and China what the US is currently doing?
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@Chishio Chishio You're saying that he works for the Chinese government, but Cyrus' message is about peaceful cooperation between the US and China, then isn't this a positive message for the world? Would you prefer to listen the warmongering messages from the West?
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@rufanuf1 What wonderful thing about democracy? Western democracy has caused wars in the Middle East, of which the US does not take responsibility for, then whats so wonderful about that? Instead, you hype up the potential of Russia and China "trying to empire build" while ignoring the misdeeds of the current hegemon.
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@rufanuf1 What wonderful thing about democracy? Western democracy has caused wars in the Middle East, of which the US does not take responsibility for, then whats so wonderful about that? Instead, you hype up the potential of Russia and China "trying to empire build" while ignoring what the US is currently doing?
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@rufanuf1 You said: "Now tell me what the CCP does wrong, has done wrong. Publish it here for the world to see please." China's development has resulted in air-pollution due to over reliance on fossil fuels, which have resulted in smog in our cities. After receiving complaints by citizens, the government built the world's largest hydroelectric power station, the Three Gorges Dam, in order to supply China with clean, renewable energy and to reduce dependence on fossil-fuels. Now that I've said that, could you perhaps say something positive about the CPC?
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@rufanuf1 What wonderful thing about democracy? Western democracy has caused wars in the Middle East, of which the US does not take responsibility for, then whats so wonderful about that? Instead, you paint Russia and China out to be the enemy here?
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@rufanuf1 China's development has resulted in air-pollution due to over reliance on fossil fuels, which have resulted in smog in our cities. After receiving complaints by citizens, the government built the world's largest hydroelectric power station, the Three Gorges Dam, in order to supply China with clean, renewable energy and to reduce dependence on fossil-fuels. Now that I've said that, in return could you perhaps say something positive about the CPC?
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@rufanuf1 China's development has resulted in air-pollution due to over reliance on fossil fuels, which have resulted in smog in our cities. After receiving complaints by citizens, the government built the world's largest hydroelectric power station, the Three Gorges Dam, in order to supply China with clean, renewable energy and to reduce dependence on fossil-fuels.
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@rufanuf1 One thing that the government has done wrong is to pollute the airs of our cities. But the government is rectifying the problem by investing heavily in electric vehicles. Now that I've said that, in return could you perhaps say something positive about the CPC?
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@rufanuf1 "Shenzou I don't know if your Chinese or not (I don't like to make assumptions) , but you really do need to wake up to your flawed perceptions of global reality." Flawed perceptions of global reality? You're the one claiming that the mindset of communism to have demonstrated itself to limit innovation and creativity throughout human history, yet I've already proven that statement wrong with the Soviet launching Sputnik, Soviet cosmonaut Yuri Gagarin, Soviet Space Station Salyut, then who is the one with flawed perceptions of global reality here? What objectivity have you demonstrated at all, except to look down on Chinese inventions and Soviet inventions?
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@rufanuf1 If you claim that one good thing about Western democracies is the ability to point out mistakes, but if no action is being taken to correct said mistakes, then how exactly is the Western democracy going to evolve? In the West, they've reached a state where they produced incompetent leaders that have no solutions to problems presented to them. All they seem to do is blame China for their own problems.
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@rufanuf1 If you claim that one good thing about Western democracies is the ability to point out mistakes, but if no action is being taken to correct said mistakes, then how exactly is the Western democracy going to evolve? In the West, they've reached a state where they produced incompetent leaders that have no solutions to problems presented to them. All they seem to do is redirect blame elsewhere.
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@rufanuf1 You said: " The world as it is today, civilization as it is today is NOT a product of Chinese Innovation or Chinese culture." Chinese inventions HAVE contributed to global development, such as the Four Great Chinese Inventions, or the Paper banknote, or the blast furnace, and so on, but the fact that you constantly deny Chinese achievements is indication that you're not being objective here. You said: "On the contrary, nearly anything positive that's improved the quality of life on this planet for individuals ANYWHERE came out the west (and particularly the US) domination of the world over the last 200 years." Not more of your unsubstantiated claims. China's poverty alleviation efforts have lifted an unprecedented number of people out of poverty in China. According to the World Bank, more than 850 million Chinese people have been lifted out of extreme poverty; China's poverty rate fell from 88 percent in 1981 to 0.7 percent in 2015, as measured by the percentage of people living on the equivalent of US$1.90 or less per day in 2011 purchasing price parity terms, which still stands in 2022.
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@rufanuf1 So you're saying that US wars in the Middle East are somehow "justified" just because it's not over territorial claim? That the tragic loss of life in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Yemen, is okay, just because it's not over territory grab? Then what "humanitarian reason" are you talking about? Take for example the Iraq War, and according to Iraq Body Count, some 200,000 Iraqi civilians lost their lives as a result of the US war in Iraq. You said: "they are states lead by authoritarian rulers harboring terrorists" If you're referring to Osama bin Laden, he was arrested in Pakistan, not Afghanistan. Furthermore, after his death, the US continued to occupy Afghanistan for 20 years, then what sort of justification is this?
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@rufanuf1 It's no secret today that the West is in decline and China is rising. You see it in the everyday news and even you agree that the leaders in the the West are incompetent for their role. Then why is it that you seem to think democracy is the best form of governance?
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@rufanuf1 Another point to note is that Western democracies have also started wars, such as the Iraq War, Afghan War, Syrian War, Libyan War, Yemen War and so on. Even in 1999, NATO bombed Yugoslavia (even though Yugoslavia did not invade NATO) then why is it that you seemingly overlook wars started by the West? Western democracies are just as capable of starting wars as authoritarian systems.
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@rufanuf1 If we draw upon the wisdom of history, the West today appears to resemble the Republic of Rome during its decline, with all those incompetent leaders, the decadence and the social and moral decay of Rome. If democracy can fix these problems, why isn't it appearing to do so?
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@rufanuf1 If we draw upon the wisdom of history, the West today appears to resemble the Republic of Rome during its decline, with all those incompetent leaders, the decadence and the social and moral decay of Rome. Why isn't democracy able to fix this?
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@rufanuf1 Claiming that authoritarian rule shows a 100% track record of failure (which is false by the way, because monarchies still exist, like for example, Saudi Arabia), doesn't mean that modern democracy will be successful either. If we look at the closest historical approximation to modern democracy, the most famous example is the Republic of Rome, and it too eventually crumbled, so there is no guarantee that democracy will be successful.
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@rufanuf1 Just look at what Western countries education teach their young kids. Social values are being perverted and conservative norms are being overturn.
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@rufanuf1 In 19th century, Britain was superpower. In 20th century, the US overtook Britain as a superpower But from 1-1800 AD, China (and also India) was a superpower. Now in the 21st century, China is all set to resume our previous status as a superpower.
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@rufanuf1 Where I studied English is not important. Western countries adopt the same view towards China and perceive our country as "the enemy", and somehow incapable of governing ourselves, then where does this sense of superiority come from? China has found success having a political system with a strong centralized government, then why is it many Westerners (but not all) are unable to accept China's rise?
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@rufanuf1 Why is it that many Westerners aren't able to accept the rise of China? China was once a dirt-poor, war-torn, starving country in the past, but fast forward till today and look at how far China has come under the leadership of the CPC. Today, China is the world's 2nd largest economy (or the largest if you go by PPP), the world's factory, having strong scientific and engineering basis, protected by the world's largest land army, the People's Liberation Army.
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@rufanuf1 What makes you think "authoritarian" governments are one step closer to decay than democratic ones? From what I can gather, Putin enjoys a high approval rating in Russia and its the same thing with China. According a long-term study by Harvard University and Ash Center, around 80-90 percent of Chinese citizens support the Chinese government. Whereas the leaders of Western democracies are experiencing low approval from their populations.
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@rufanuf1 What makes you think "authoritarian" governments are one step closer to decay than democratic ones? From what I can gather, Putin enjoys a high approval rating in Russia. In March 2023, over 80 percent of Russians approved of activities of the Russian President Vladimir Putin. Same thing with China. According a long-term study by Harvard University and Ash Center, around 80-90 percent of Chinese citizens support the Chinese government. Whereas the approval ratings of many Western democracies are at an all time low.
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@rufanuf1 What makes you think "authoritarian" governments are one step closer to decay than democratic ones? From what I can gather, Putin enjoys a high approval rating in Russia. In March 2023, over 80 percent of Russians approved of activities of the Russian President Vladimir Putin. Same thing with China. According a long-term study by Harvard University and Ash Center, around 80-90 percent of Chinese citizens support the Chinese government. On the other hand, Western democracies are facing low approval ratings, be it President Biden, Canadian PM Trudeu, French President Macron, German Chancellor Olaf and so on.
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@rufanuf1 Also, you claim that the West should "start applying the "eye for eye" "dog eat dog" doctrine of the Chinese" but when has that ever been part of Chinese doctrine? Look at Chinese media, and the Chinese government promotes win-win cooperation which are mutually beneficial. Where did you get the idea that China is about "eye for an eye" and "dog eat dog"? How much do you actually know about Chinese culture?
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@rufanuf1 You said: "For example why on Earth should western countries allow property ownership for citizens or companies of nations that do not reciprocate?" For your information, foreigners are allowed to purchase property in China. The essential requirement is that foreigners have to have studied or worked in China for at least one year on a residence permit. Foreigners are allowed to only own one residential property for dwelling purposes in China.
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@rufanuf1 So I take it that you have no data? I've already gave examples of Chinese inventions like paper, compass, gunpowder, but you just disregard them. You spoke of the Industrial Revolution, but did you know that ancient Chinese metallurgists invented the blast furnace, cupola furnace, finery forge as well as the puddling process that converted pig iron to wrought iron, long before it was developed in England during the 1780s?
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@rufanuf1 So I take it that you have no data to support your boasts? I've already gave examples of Chinese inventions like paper, compass, gunpowder, but you just dismiss them. You spoke of the Industrial Revolution, but did you know that ancient Chinese metallurgists invented the blast furnace (500 BC), cupola furnace (403-221 BC), finery forge (300 BC) as well as the puddling process that converted pig iron to wrought iron, long before it was developed in England during the 1780s.
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@rufanuf1 You said: "Even the Sputnik example is a poor one, because YES the Russian got there first but only in an event created by the US!" An event? You're referring to the Space Race? Everyone knows the Soviet Union kicked off the Space Race. Public interest in space travel originated in the 1951 publication of a Soviet youth magazine and was promptly picked up by US magazines. Yet you're claiming its the US that created this event? You said: "You can win a race but who created the arena?" Well, aren't people generally more interested in who won the race, rather than who created the arena? And the Space Race arena was literally created by the USSR.
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@eliotanderson6554 Even if you believe China has Han supremacy and domination, India clearly has Hindu supremacy and dominance.
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@rufanuf1 "A way of life literally invented by the west and begrudgingly taken up by Russia and the East. Otherwise you would still be farming cabbage by hand." Before 1917, Russia was arguably the poorest country in Europe at that time. Only about 15 percent of the population lived in towns, and fewer than 10 percent worked in industry. Agriculture provided the livelihood for 80 percent of the population and was dominated by peasants, whose traditional household economies were extremely inefficient compared to agriculture in Western Europe or the United States. Russia was also technologically backwards compared to advanced capitalist countries like Great Britain and Germany. But after the 1917 Bolshevik Revolution, the new Soviet Union rapidly grew to become arguably the strongest country in Europe, both economically and militarily (that's why NATO was formed in response to rising Soviet military might). The USSR was the world's 2nd largest economy from 1960 to 1985. The Soviets also made numerous advances in science and technology, such as launching Sputnik into orbit before the Americans did. Such an ideology that transformed Russia from arguably what was once Europe's poorest country into its strongest as the Soviet Union, and yet you're claiming that the mindset of communism has demonstrated itself to limit innovation and creativity throughout human history?
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@jon_nomad Some Chinese Malaysians and Singaporeans (but not everyone) tend to have a colonial mentality of worshipping Anglo-Saxon Culture, while harboring disdain for any "non-white" culture (including their own). Even though Malaysia and Singapore have long been decolonized, the decolonization of the mind needs to take place in order to heal the mental damage inflicted by the colonizer on the minds of the colonized. Only then, will Malaysia and Singapore truly be free of their colonial past.
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Some Chinese Malaysians and Singaporeans (but not everyone) tend to have a colonial mentality of worshipping Anglo-Saxon Culture, while harboring disdain for any "non-white" culture (including their own). Even though Malaysia and Singapore have long been decolonized, the decolonization of the mind needs to take place in order to heal the mental damage inflicted by the colonizer on the minds of the colonized.
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@rufanuf1 You said: "90%+ of everyday innovation has come from and out of something called the industrial revolution." Do you actually have data to support your boast? Chinese not only invented paper, but also the paper banknote. Before that, merchants often have to carry excess coinage or precious stones for trading, but with the Chinese invention of the banknote, paper currency started circulating and made its way to the West. (Also, during the Industrial Revolution, the majority of European countries were actually still monarchies, not democracies.)
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@rufanuf1 You said: "My education taught me to be objective and simply observe. You cant learn objectivity from history books." History has so much to teach us, if only we would listen. China has 5,000 years of history and has thus accumulated a wealth of political experience, garnered through various Chinese political literature, governing manuals or military textbooks, on how to best govern a country as populous as China. China has always been ruled by a strong central government (i.e Emperor and Imperial Court) then why should China abandon this system that works for China, and instead adopt Western-style democracy? Even Taiwan Miracle occurred under the authoritarian single-party KMT rule. Even Hong Kong Miracle occurred while Hong Kong was under the authoritarian rule of Britain. You claim to be objective, yet why is it you cannot counter any of my points? Instead you make snide remarks against me for my views? Just because my views differ from yours?
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@rufanuf1 You said: "the mindset of communism, which has demonstrated itself to limit innovation and creativity throughout human history" Are you serious? The Soviet Union invented and launched the world's first satellite, Sputnik-1. The first man in space was Soviet cosmonaut, Yuri Gagarin on board Vostok-1. The USSR even launched the world's first space station, Salyut-1. Are you living in some alternative history, that you won't even know of these achievements made by the USSR?
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@rufanuf1 You said: "I don't look down on anyone based on their race." Throughout this whole comment thread, you've made numerous disparaging remarks regarding Chinese people and our inventions. It appears you've never even heard of the Four Great Inventions of China, yet you're claiming that I'm revealing my ignorance? You said: "I realize that China are excelling in some areas (drones for example) but still not "their" invention." Ancient China made use of unmanned aerial vehicles such as the Sky Lanterns (also known as Kongming Lanterns) which was mankind's first hot air balloon, from as early as the 3rd century BC.
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@rufanuf1 "神州 Shenzhou Numerous times now you have revealed your ignorance to me" How have I done that? I've, gone into China's 5,000 years of history, being ruled by a strong central government (i.e Emperor and Imperial Court) and how this is Chinese Heritage as represented by the current Chinese government. I've pointed out how Taiwan had flourished under the authoritarian single-party KMT, and only after democracy was introduced, did Taiwan's economic growth slowed. Meanwhile, you yourself admitted that you "were not taught the intricacies of Chinese history at school." so who is revealing their ignorance here?
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@tonyzhan8668 Not only do countries need to be decolonized, but the people's minds have to be decolonized as well, in order to reverse the mental indoctrination inflicted by the colonizer on the minds of the colonized through the education system. Only then will the former colonies truly break free.
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@tonyzhan8668 Decolonization of the mind needs to take place in order to reverse the mental damage that the colonizers imposed on the minds of the colonized.
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@rufanuf1 How have my historical lessons been unscientific? The fact remains that the vast majority of ancient nations adopted authoritarian forms of government (i.e aristocracy, theocracy, monarchy etc) then how's that "cherry picking"? And the Soviet Union made numerous advances to science and technology, with their launching of Sputnik, of Yuri Gagarin being the first man in space, and launching Soviet space station, Salyut, so doesn't this already prove your statement wrong?
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@bobsmith3983 "神州 Shenzhou Bananas." Yeah. Yellow on the outside, white on the inside.
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@rufanuf1 Excuse me, but what's wrong with sharing a holiday resort with 50 Russians? Aren't Russians people as well? Or are you implying that you should have the whole resort to yourself? It's like you're deliberately de-humanizing Russians as non-human, then aren't you being somewhat racist here? And what's wrong with Chinese spitting contests held all over the world? I thought you were all about freedoms yet why is it when Chinese people do things, you take offense against us? I mean, Chinese people are free to travel overseas for study, work and play. Everyone has heard of Chinese tourists visiting your countries and spending coin on your tourist industry. Western schools and universities are positively flooded with Chinese international students, studying the same topics as their peers. Yet what makes you think Chinese people aren't free, or are suppressed under the government?
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@PrimeV88 You said: "China became prosperous at the expense of the West." Studies showed that Chinese workers earned only 10 cents for every dollar of profit that Western companies like Apple and Nike made, so how is it at the expense of the West? It's thanks to Chinese saving up millions of cents over the decades in order to lift millions out of poverty in China.
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@criteriumprovidus4360 You said: "because something last for a very long time it doesn't mean that is necessarily good - Human civilization has advanced more in the last 100 years than all civilizations combined." Western-style democracy actually has a history of failure. For example, Athenian democracy failed. Spartan democracy failed. Greek democracy failed, and even the Republic of Rome eventually crumbled. These early prototypes of democracy weren't successful, and democracy itself wasn't even popular outside of Greece, and didn't spread throughout the rest of the ancient world. Modern liberal democracy only has around 100-200 years of history, and is not guaranteed to be successful long-term. Whereas China has 5,000 years of history in which a strong central government (i.e the Emperor and the Imperial Court) ruled, so why should China abandon our political system that works and adopt Western style democracy? It's rather short-sighted to only take the last 100-200 years of human history and ignore the past 1000-2000 years of human history.
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@criteriumprovidus4360 You said: "But why don't you explain the "Twain miracle" or the Hong Kong "miracle" afraid to admit that it was due to western civilization." Because both the Taiwan Miracle and Hong Kong Miracle were the result of authoritarian rule, not Western-style democracy. Previously while Hong Kong still a British colony, Hong Kong did not enjoy democracy and the people of Hong Kong did not vote for their leaders. Only during the period of Hong Kong's handover, did Hong Kong people finally get to vote for their favorite leaders, under the One Country Two Systems policy set forth by China. Before that, Hong Kong sure as hell was under the authoritarian colonial rule of British for at least 200 years. Yet Hong Kong flourished as a prosperous port city under such authoritarian rule. (As for the Taiwan Miracle, I've elaborated in detail how this was achieved under the authoritarian single party rule of KMT, not because of Western-style democracy.)
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@rufanuf1 You said the Egyptians were using papyrus long before China existed, but today the world is using paper not papyrus. And it appears that you look down on Chinese inventions, claiming that _ "it was going to be discovered regardless,"_ then why didn't Anglo Saxons invented the compass then? And Chinese used gunpowder for making fireworks (that America uses to celebrates every 4th of July).
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@rufanuf1 So it appears that both of us are in agreement that yes, all societies ultimately move towards an authoritarian state, then why can't it be assumed that authoritarian forms of government are the norm? It was clearly the norm for the past 1000-2000 years of human history, whereas democracy has only been prominent for the past 100-200 years of human history. Granted, there were earlier "prototype democracies" like in Athens, Sparta, Greece, but even those systems eventually crumbled. The Republic of Rome for example is no longer around, whereas China has 5,000 years of history and has survived the test of time.
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@rufanuf1 I had the opportunity to learn English and study abroad, but I was appalled at the sheer amount of anti-China sentiment in the West. It's like whenever I bring up China's positive achievements to Westerners, they laughed at me, calling me "indoctrinated" or tell me to "Go back to China if you really like it there". Even though many of these Westerners have never actually set foot inside China and seen what life is like here for themselves. (Granted, not everyone in the West behaved like this, but more are behaving increasingly so.)
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@rufanuf1 You said: "The problem is your poltical have not been persuing those ideas for the benefit of Chinese citizens," How is it not to the benefit of Chinese citizens? Poverty alleviation is at the forefront of Chinese government policy, and Chinese citizens have benefited greatly from the government's economic policy. The quality of life in China has improved so much that recently, studies have shown that Chinese citizens life expectancy is now higher than that of Americans. The US life expectancy at birth is now at 76.1 years, versus 77.1 for China. You said: "you only need to consider the plight of People like Jack Ma too see that." Jack Ma had proposed a deal that would benefit Ant Financial at the cost to ordinary Chinese citizens, so what's wrong when the CPC tries to take him down a notch? Jack Ma was acting in his own interests, not for ordinary Chinese citizens interests.
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@rufanuf1 You said: "On the otherhand the way you dress them up as being purely Chinese successes as if China resides alone on this planet I do find amusing." Look who's talking. You're the one boasting that (quoting your own words): "On the contrary, nearly anything positive that's improved the quality of life on this planet for individuals ANYWHERE came out the west (and particularly the US)" so who's the one dressing up as being purely Western successes? It's like you're accusing me of doing what you yourself are doing here. You said: "Its just a shame you cannot recognise the simple fact that in order to do that they have had to COPY western capitalist business models to do so." That's where you are incorrect. China did not copy Western business models. For example, experts agree that China is not a free market, because the Chinese government exerts a degree of control over the market. Also, there are a number of state-owned Chinese companies, so what makes you claim China had copied Western business models? You said: "神州 Shenzhou lol you are funny. Im not in any disagreement with SOME of the facts your stating." Funny how you never actually expressed this feeling.
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@rufanuf1 About "stealing ideas", it's not as though Chinese have never invented anything of our own. Chinese invented the Four Great Inventions (Paper, Printing, Compass, Gunpowder )which have revolutionized the world we live in. But do Chinese complain about Westerners making use of Chinese inventions?
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@rufanuf1 About "stealing ideas", it's not as though Chinese have never invented anything of our own. Chinese invented the Four Great Inventions which have revolutionized the world we live in. Paper and Printing have made the transcribing and transmission of knowledge much easier. The Compass has made navigation through bad weather conditions much easier. And Gunpowder has made a huge impact on the way modern wars are fought. But do Chinese complain about Westerners making use of Chinese inventions?
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@rufanuf1 You said: "The obvious fear today in the west, is that Chinese rulers (not necessarily it's people,) accepted the invitation to that party with hostile intentions." What invitation are you talking about? If you're talking about China joining the UN, then it's because UN countries democratically voted to recognize the People's Republic of China, and to kick Taiwan out of the UN Security council through voting. Resolution 2758 was passed in response to the Resolution 1668 that required any change in China's representation in the UN be determined by a two-thirds vote referring to Article 18 of the UN Charter. The UN voted: 76 voted for, 35 voted against, 17 abstained. Since China won the vote with two-thirds majority, the resolution was passed on 25 October 1971, and recognized the PRC as China, while kicking the RoC out of the UN Security Council.
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@Shinobi Vendetta Whites accounted for 64% of adults
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@rufanuf1 So Western democracies get incompetent leaders because they deserve it? Then why are you continuing to praise such a system that produces such inept leaders in the first place? And it's funny how you hype up the Russia and China as somehow "trying to empire build" when it's the US that's involved in wars in territories from across the Pacific Ocean. And you're not even American yourself, yet you rush to defend the US involvement in wars?
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@rufanuf1 So you're saying that Western democracies get incompetent leaders because they deserve it? Then why are you continuing to praise such a system that produces such inept leaders in the first place? And it's funny how you hype up the Russia and China as somehow "trying to empire build" when Russia and China are at the most striving only for regional dominance, and it's the US that wants to preserve their global hegemonic status. And you downplay the US's wars, even though you yourself aren't even American.
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@rufanuf1 The negative consequence of the democratic form of leadership can also be very negative, if the person in power wants war. Didn't US President Bush invade Iraq on suspicion of Iraq harboring weapons of mass destruction? But no WMDs were ever found in Iraq, so it's clear that democratic form of government can result in negative consequences.
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