Comments by "w71 w72" (@gives_bad_advice) on "" video.

  1. Probably they would have, especially the Soviets. But, yeah, even Putin or Xi.
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  2. The problem going on now is one failure against how many successful crewed forays into orbit? A hundred? More? I mean, Boeing is also having problems with their airliners--does that lead you to believe that America is struggling to put people into the air?
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  3. "not one picture had the wrong exposure" Where did you come up with that idea?
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  4.  @aok4418  "it eventually settles" No, dust doesn't settle in a vacuum. It freefalls at the same rate as a bowling ball.
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  5. "have been faked" How, on Earth, does one simulate dust flying around in an airless 1/6 g environment?
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  6. Well, maybe the reason for not going is something other than a lack of technology.
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  7. He's a troll and not a clever one at that.
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  8. Charlie Duke was interviewed for a nifty new video called "Moon astronaut reacts to moon landing deniers." Perhaps not the most inspired title but it's a cool interview and includes some interviews of Deniers on the street--in one memorable comment a young woman says that "it was probably AI." Kinda puts a face on some of the more amusing comments seen on this board.
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  9. Not my favorite bit of evidence, since it's circumstantial and speculative--exactly what this debate does not need more of. If both the U.S. and the U.S.S.R. were faking it then maybe neither would want to call out the other for fear of being called out themselves in turn.
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  10. Airliners malfunction to this day. Still believe in what happened at Kitty Hawk?
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  11. My car broke, therefore rockets don't exist.
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  12. Do any of these techniques hold up to close ballistic analyses? There is a mathematically predictable and precise trajectory that an object in freefall will follow. It would be surprising to me that no one has been able to do a rigorous analysis showing trajectory abnormalities, if indeed trajectories were approximated by NASA using wires. The limitations of underwater buoyancy are obvious. And to simulate a zero-air resistance 1/6 g plume of dust with enough precision to fool every physicist on Earth for 55 years would require.... what? How could that be done? What we've learned here, from the OP, is the inadequacy of having ChatGPT do one's thinking for him.
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  13. Safer, cheaper, and debunked in about three minutes by anyone with a passing understanding of physics.
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  14. What modern technologies should make it easy? Computing speed are much faster but that just means they will want to reinvent and automate everything. It might actually be harder to go now, for that reason, given humanity's obsessive need to computerize everything that can possibly be computerized.
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  15. Six countries have sent spacecraft to the moon. Four of them accomplished soft landings on the surface. But it's true that only the U.S. have managed to get humans beings there and back. Part of the reason others haven't attempted it is that there's not much motivation to take the risk and spend the money, since there's not much a human can do there that s robot cannot.
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  16. ​ @occhamite "he said the CIA had tried to assassinate him" Really?!
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  17. That's a pretty weird reason to come to a conclusion.
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  18. I'm guessing that you don't speak Hebrew.
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  19. Can i use this to show students what a strawman is? It is an elegant example.
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  20.  @cappy2282  Guess again, Sherlock.
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  21.  @trekscape8550  "no matter how much you try or how much evidence you present" How much evidence did he present? Maybe "none at all" isn't quite enough.
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  22. "Let me out this in simple terms..." As if you have a choice.
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  23. "only children and infantile adults" And also every aerospace engineer who's ever published anything in the past 55 years. But think you know better than they do.
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  24. You have a fundamental misunderstanding of the word "fact."
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  25. "We landed on the moon, discovered nothing and since then nothing's happened What a waste of taxpayers money!" Apollo was one of the biggest American victories in the Cold War and it may have kept us out of a hot war. Not to mention the fact that understanding more about the origin of the moon has led to understanding of the origins of Earth. You may not care where our planet came from, but a lot of people do.
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  26. You might be misremembering. At times the screen would indicate "animation" or "simulation", but I'm not aware that there were astronauts acting in a "reenactment." There would be no need to do so , given that they had the real thing on tape.
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  27. ​ @franknorthcuttmusic "Hsu et al., 2012" Cool! Now THAT'S what I'm talkin about--numbers! Thanks for the tip!
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  28. I've been to India but I've never been in my neighbor's basement. HOW??
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  29. Von Braun was talking about using a direct ascent approach, but in fact they did a lunar orbit rendezvous and docking.
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  30.  @Igoriann  "than to try to convince them that they're being fooled" Two things there. 1. You haven't offered any evidence to convince anyone of anything, and 2. This pithy cliche applies to all human beings, including you and others who naively believe in fantastical conspiracy stories.
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  31. "Von Braun stated before we went to the moon that it would take a fuel tank the size of the Empire State building to get there and back." Are you sure Von Braun was talking about lunar orbit-rendezvous when he said that, or was it direct ascent?
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  32. Yes. It's also funny that none of the criticism comes from physicists or engineers. For 60 years. Despite hundreds (thousands) of published papers analyzing the data generated by Apollo.
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  33. "there wasn't Internet yet they can beam from the moon" This is one of my favorite misconceptions because it's SO EASY to explain--they used radio.
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  34. The Titanic sank, therefore no one crossed the Atlantic on a ship prior to 1912.
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  35. Sounds like you're a fellow who bases his beliefs on those of the herd.
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  36. I want to hear more about the space mouse.
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  37. "The moon landing isn’t even something taught at schools." Here's a graduate course offered at MIT this fall: "Engineering Apollo: The Moon Project as a Complex System." I dare you to find a major engineering college or aerospace program on the planet that doesn't include Apollo in its curriculum.
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  38. It's proven long ago. And in the last 20 years, five countries have photographed the landing sites. If someone is hellbent on a particular belief, these things don't penetrate.
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  39. "WHERE ARE ALL OF THE STARS IN THE SKY" Looks like you've answered your own question.
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  40. If the question was "Is it possible to create a moon stage" you'd have a point. But i think the real question is "Is it possible to fool 10,000 aerospace engineers with your moon stage."
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  41.  @michaelstillman1171  One reason i admire the early U.S. space program is their openness. Unlike the Soviets, the U.S. put everything on the table and announced what they were doing before they did it. This contrast with the secrecy of the Soviet approach was more than just a nice thing--it was the very primary objective: to show the world that an open society works.
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  42. The rocks have probably been analyzed in labs all over the world by many geologists.
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  43. 100% is pathetic. Talk to me when you make it 1000%.
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  44. "why not take pictures of the stars?" They did from lunar orbit and from the surface during A16. "math and physics would quickly disprove" Too late for quickly. It's been 55 years and no one has been able to yet.
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  45. If it were fake, why would they make the hatches too narrow? Are you sure you've thought this through?
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  46. I find it interesting the difference between "It doesn't make sense" and "It doesn't make sense to me."
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  47. Look again. There's dust at touchdown. And lift off.
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  48. The mics are inside the spacesuits which are full of oxygen which carries sound waves. Vibrations travel from the hammer strike and through gloves (full of oxygen) and also through the astronauts' bones. It didn't sound like a normal hammer strike, does it? Kind of muted.
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  49. It's pretty easy to find the answer to that question. The hint is to know that wireless communication didn't begin with Wi-Fi. The world didn't start spinning the day Steve Jobs introduced the iPod.
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  50. Well, there are more than a hundred videos saying that NASA is wrong. By you're logic, if it were so ridiculous that NASA landed in the moon, no one would bother to refute it.
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  51. China has taken pictures of the Apollo landing sites from lunar orbit and found everything where it should be. The world's engineers and scientists have to had 50 years to produce evidence of fraud and absolutely no such evidence has been published. You've got to be a little kooky to think a charade of that magnitude and under close scrutiny could be maintained without a single whistleblower or shred of evidence to the contrary for even a week, let alone five decades.
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  52. ​ @michaelstillman1171 But he makes up for it with "moon rocks extremely porous" That's 100% original as far as i know.
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  53. Well, i would say it depends on four things: what kind of film it is, what kind of radiation it was exposed to, at what intensity, and for how long. Without knowing all those things, there's just no telling..
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  54. So the "techs" didn't know which way their own directional antennae were pointed? That's pretty hard to believe.
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  55. Thats because the Russians destroyed all the punctuation
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  56. It was attached to the outside of the lunar lander and was deployed when it was time.
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  57. They did
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  58. Interesting take. The moment someone questions the validity of something they must be right. Is that a fair representation of your theory here?
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  59. "China found no trace" I think you're making up lies.
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  60.  @SolarChronicle  A lot of folks seem to think that wireless communication did not exist before the mobile phone.
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  61. In freshman Rhetoric & Writing today we talked about perspective taking in the context of the argumentative essays they are writing. I had them write, for ten minutes, a letter to their Opposition showing this opposition that they understand their point of view. Not that they agree with them, only that they understand them--a "generous" read of the other side rather than a "critical" read. Why do such a thing? Because if one suspends critique for a bit, he can better see things through the eyes of the opposition, understand their thinking, and from there craft a more fitting, customized response which is more likely to move them from their position, if only a little bit. And that is the goal--to move them, not to beat them. I find it difficult to practice here what i preach there. But here the goal IS to beat them, or at least to beat the flaming numpties.
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  62. ​ @stusue9733 As soon as they start talking about buoyancy, chances are they're flat Earthers who think gravity doesn't exist.
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  63. "They did NOT land on the moon" Then where did they land? I don't think they took that giant rocket to the 7-11.
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  64. If you have a lot of unanswered questions then how can you be confident that "there's no way" they went to they moon?
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  65.  @therealzilch  "Since the Earth's atmosphere is more than 90% transparent to visible light, the stars seen from the Moon would look a little better than the best viewing from the Earth- not a big deal." Yeah but they couldn't take a giant telescope, like the ones on Earth, with you to the moon. I'm no astronomer, but I'd expect large Earth-based telescopes to provide much better resolution than whatever tiny thing you could fit in/on the lunar lander. And, by the way, @JR-hr8pk (not a terribly clever handle), they did point the video camera at Earth and if you're interested in finding that video on You Tube, search for "Apollo 17 station 2 view of Earth". And there's another video from "station 4."
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  66. There's video of the rover's deployment on YT.
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  67. "just a lander" You really think no one remembered that they'd need to take off again to get home? I really cannot conceive the thought process you're using here.
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  68. How is a cell phone going to get you to the moon?
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  69.  @critthought2866  " They're so cute" They're always pretty cute, especially when they get mad.
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  70.  @critthought2866  Even in the deepest midst of the emptiest super voids in the known universe, still there are 10 atoms in every cubic meter for a rocket to "push off of".
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  71. ​ @HenryDurth Yes, the sun is always the same size. I have kept my eclipse glasses handy for the past few months and i can confirm by personal experience that the disc of the sun never changes in size.
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  72.  @mistersimple1986  "never said i was looking for it" Then why decide it doesn't exist?
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  73. I heard audio of DT trying to pressure Georgia into generating 11,000 fraudulent votes for himself. Now THAT'S evidence of attempted fraud. What do you got?
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  74. " The astro-nots were in earth orbit for the whole mission(s). " Hundreds of people from dozens of countries tracked the Apollo vehicles to the moon and back. Amateurs and professional alike. Five countries have photographed the Apollo landing sites in the past 25 years. Including China. And there was no way to simulate astronauts kicking around dust in an airless 1/6 g environment on video. You've got a physics degree, so let's take that one--how do you suppose they got dust to fly around without creating clouds but to instead trace the path expected in airless microgravity. If your degree is worth anything you know that slowing down the video won't do it because slowing the video slows motion on both the x and the y axes. But if you're kicking dust around on the moon, 1/6 g does nothing to affect the x vectors, only the y. Do tell, do tell. "entertain the possibility that all these years, you might have been wrong" I am. And if you can come up with an explanation for the dust in the video, I'll entertain it honestly. And you? Are you willing to take your own advice?
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  75. After 50 years they haven't amounted to a hill of beans.
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  76.  @nunyabiz1780  "some guy did the work" I would need a little more to go on in order to find that persuasive, but, yeah, that's the sort of rigor that the Deniers have in short supply. In fact, I've never seen any. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist, just because i have not seen something. So if you've got it, trot it out. Article titles work.
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  77. They were awesome. Even the ones that didn't land were awesome. Apollo 8 holds as much or more intrigue as 11.
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  78.  @HenryDurth  "Don't forget the fact that the suns gravitational pull would have pulled any of the attempted missions off course" lol! It's not easy to stand out as an exceptional kook among Apollo truthers, but you have managed to do it! Good job!
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  79. You offer a thoughtful blend of copypasting and pure insanity. I give you 6 out of 10.
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  80. " they were threatened by are government if they say anything" What you have there is a speculation. Some folks confuse their speculations for conclusions.
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  81. Yeah, there is also a collossal profit motive and a whole raft of practical reasons to fly airplanes.
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  82.  @jimgalle1371  "Do not question authority .... you must be a good sheep ...." It's the ones who blindly follow the conspiracy theory leaders like Bart Sibrel who are the sheep.
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  83.  @adeboyegrillo3408  "The awkward looking flag that was waving for example." Does the flag ever wave when no one is standing right there next to it? As as far as "awkward." I'm not sure how you measure awkwardness, but it's not surprising at all that it looks different from what we have come to expect from flags on Earth--on the moon there's no air resistance, there's a fraction of the gravity and so the same force applied to the staff will cause greater movement in the flag. And there's a horizontal bar across the top, which flags on earth rarely have. The fact that the flag moves weirdly (awkwardly) as we've never seen one move on Earth is evidence IN FAVOR of the fact of being on the moon.
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  84. How many people have been ferried to and from the ISS since it was built? Take a guess.
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  85. You would believe him, whether he was telling the truth or not
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  86. And what if there is gravity? Then what?
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  87. They did it again five times
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  88. ​ @laneyljk A t.v. signal IS radiation. Light is radiation. Camera is spelled with an "e". You could do with some intellectual humility. A LOT of humility.
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  89. Yes, there are photos and video of Earth taken by astronauts from the surface of the moon. Why do you think they did not?
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  90. ​​ @tdub25  The Apollo deniers are not skeptics; a skeptic would be skeptical of Bart's claims, as well as NASA's. To be selectively skeptical is to not be a skeptic at all. To be skeptical only of the half of the story you don't like is "cynicism."
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  91. Then the interviewee days "if they couldn't get a simulator to work on Earth..." But it's simply not true that they couldn't get it to work. It did work and the video of it functioning well is on YT. The idea that one crash means that it was never made to work is wrong.
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  92. ​ @TimothyPetitpas Are you sure you didn't figuratively see the video?
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  93. The past matters to the future. What else can?
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  94. The VABs are not intense enough to hurt a human in the few hours it takes to traverse them. It's as simple as that.
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  95. If you think DT doesn't fabricate b.s., then you're a dupe.
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  96. india, japan, and china all have lunar orbiters sending back high res photos of the Apolli landing sites
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  97.  @nunyabiz1780  You're debunking the debunkers. Is called a debate and this is hardly the only topic debated on You Tube. There are plenty of folks out there doing the same thing with evolution and the existence of god, for instance.
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  98. NASA has never said it's impossible for humans to cross the VABs and that they've destroyed the technology to do so. That is why you are unable to post a quote or video title of any NASA representative saying so.
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  99. China has photographed the Apollo landing sites and foun d everything to be where it is. You're just making stuff up that you wish was true.
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  100. Gravity causes things to fall.
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  101. What do see as wrong or lacking in the materials and tech?
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  102. You tell me.
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  103. Since fraud is already illegal and prosecutable in criminal court and litigatable in civil court, your scheme would change nothing. It would be a redundancy. So sure why not? Go for it.
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  104. You must have been president of the debate team.
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  105. This year four astronauts worked within the VABs on the Polaris Dawn mission. The Belts are not as damaging as some people want you to believe.
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  106. You could read about how Aristarchus did it in the third century B.C. Just glancing through the Wiki, it looks to me that he used the size of Earth's shadow on the moon, and knowing that, along with the actual size of Earth, it was relatively simple trig to get the distance to the moon. Pretty cool. I think i would like to learn more about this Aristarchus chap.
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  107. It's it possible that you are misreading the body language?
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  108. What they learned about the moon has led to our current understand about how Planet Earth was formed, way back when. I realize it is a little weird, but I'm into that sort of thing. It seems to me that humanity has an obligation to figure out where the hell all this came from (since no one else can do it).
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  109. If you could spell crane and crater, you'd make a better impression.
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  110. Key word: back
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  111. What passes for "doing your own research" amounts to mucking around to find someone saying what one wants to hear.
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  112. ​ @yoskarokuto3553  At least you can spell "liars," which is more than most of the truthers can manage.
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  113. "If we can't safely pass through the VABs now" The Polaris Dawn mission, a couple weeks ago took astronauts into the VABs. As far as i know, they're still healthy. I'm not sure where the idea that the VABs were some kind of instant death zone comes from, but Van Allen himself says otherwise. "how the hell did they do it over 50 years ago?" One problem that modern equipment has is that the chips have become so minaturized that they're vulnerable to particle radiation. The relatively big chunky electronics of Apollo were unaffected. Maybe that's where the myth of the death rays comes from.
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  114. "how they crossed the Van Allan Belts?" At thousands of miles per hour. Next question?
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  115.  @ediesaffron3593  "Look at all these replies.. so many bots on this video it’s hilarious " That would make you a bot, too.
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  116. There were 50 years between the first and second descents to Challenger Deep. But maybe you think the first one didn't happen.
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  117. A studio with no air and minimal gravity.
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  118.  @rockethead7  Wouldn't expect someone to fake disastrous failures, no.
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  119. And there's more than that. He lures Buzz in under false pretenses and was persistent to the point of harassment.
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  120. How do you get a dust cloud in a vacuum? There's nothing to carry the dust particles.
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  121. They killed Kubrick!? You bastards!
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  122. ​ @occhamite "Consider the 1960...." He's not going to consider anything that doesn't nurse his adolescent angst toward The Government.
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  123. What you say is simply not true. Go to the Air & Space Museum in D.C. and see for yourself.
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  124. Well, take heart. The Apollo landing sites have been verified, by photography, by China, Japan, South Korea, India, and the University of Arizona. And there's not a scientist in the planet who has published a speck of evidence against the mission as told, in 60 years. Seems pretty darned unlikely all that could be true if the missions weren't.
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  125. There are different kinds of radiation. Did you know that sunlight is radiation?
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  126. It would be pretty hard to get all the materials for a base up there without anyone noticing.
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  127. Five countries have photographed the landing sites from lunar orbit and they say everything is were it's expected to be. So your conspiracy becomes an international conspiracy involving China, India, Korea, Japan, and the University of Arizona. Far more than a handful.
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  128. You might be confusing buoyancy with low gravity. There is gravity on the moon and that's why both the astronauts and the dust they kick up fall back to the surface. Nothing floats as if it were underwater. And the lack of an atmosphere (the vacuum) has nothing to do with any of it.
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  129. On Earth dust can float around in the air for a long time. In the moon, that can't happen. For obvious reasons.
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  130. "NAs only speech" You're pretty gullible if you believe that.
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  131. You know, the computer is only one kind of technology.
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  132. "in 1969 a live broadcast" In order to consider these radio transmissions from the moon impossible you are implying that the following is true: despite the physical impossibility of live transmissions from the moon, every physicist, every expert in radio broadcasts for the past five decades has either not noticed or played along with the lie. Many many thousands, probably millions of experts and no one has expressed any concerns. Does that sound reasonable to you? I mean, you talk about humans' suceptibilty to brainwashing... it is either you who is misled or a million physicists with PhDs.
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  133. ​ @TheMediaMicSpeaks  The Polaris Dawn astronauts passed through parts of the VABs in September of 2024 with no ill effects.
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  134. What are some of the reasons you think Apollo was a fraud?
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  135. Zilch is right. You need to quantity your confidence level, preferably at 100% or more. But going beyond 1000% is considered bragging.
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  136.  @franknorthcuttmusic  ...to get into the bar there was a $2 cover charge. The Russian and the taxi driver paid the cover and went in had a great time. The English major couldn't afford the cover and went home and read Oliver Twist.
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  137. Well, there's no need to come to conclusions. Sometimes a fellow just needs more evidence before making up his mind. Nothing wrong with that. I have total respect for folks who withhold judgement.
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  138. If you can give the ID number of the photo, it would be helpful. NASA has given them all ID numbers.
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  139. Thinking of changing my name to "2w ago".
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  140. The lowest temperature ever recorded on Earth is -89 C. But here i sit in a tee-shirt, perfectly comfortable. How can that be?
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  141. If anyone thought that the U.S. government didn't lie, then you would have a point.
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  142. "i do not believe anything government claims" When the stakes are so high, as on the world stage, we expect people to lie. Why? Because lies work--but only in the short term, not for 50 years. In the long term the complications compound and the people have a chance to pick it to pieces. I know of no expansive lie that a government maintain for decades. Certainly nothing close to the scale of the Apollo program.
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  143.  @stusue9733  "isn't very much" Of course this comes down to a matter of definition, which is difficult to do across a gradient. There's a really really really neat documentary on a channel called "SEA" (that I listen to every night as I fall asleep) that explains that the air at sea level contains about ten-trillion-trillion atoms per cubic meter. This number reduces as you get farther from Earth and then leave the solar system and then fewer atoms still in intergalactic space, and once you get into a "super void", meaning the space between filaments, you get down to 10 atoms per cubic meter. 10. Wow. Now THERE'S a manly vacuum. From SEA: "Right now, the air around you contains approximately ten-trillion-trillion atoms per cubic meter. That’s a lot of atoms. If you want to get emptier, you have to go higher. At about 100 kilometres above Earth’s surface, the number of atoms drops to about a million trillion. About a third of the way to the Moon, there are about 7 million atoms. And to get much lower, you have to leave our Solar System altogether - interstellar space, which is the space between star systems, contains about 1 thousand atoms per cubic meter. If you travel even further, and go to the space between galaxies, that count drops to just ten atoms per cubic meter."
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  144.  @dorfsteen  You think that space station is moving at 15,000 in the atmosphere? Why then does it encounter so little drag that it stays in orbit without propulsion?
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  145. That's a bald claim. How about some evidence? Why wouldn't they work in a vacuum? There is abundant evidence that rockets DO work in a vacuum. For instance, i saw the Tiangong space station orbit over my house last week. You can track its trajectory and predict its appearance at certain times and locations. It's moving at 15,000 miles per hour. It's not possible to travel at that speed through the atmosphere. (Am i conversing with a Worthy Interlocutor?)
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  146. ​ @rrgoody "computing power" What makes you think they didn't have enough computing power? Just a gut feeling?
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  147. There is.
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  148. The machine you see in the thumbnail, indeed, did not and could not have returned to Earth. Good instincts.
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  149. I just can't decide whether some of these posts are sincere or if someone's playing games.
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  150. ​ @guyzini  "fact that it's easier to fake the landing than do it" How, then, do you fake am airless microgravity environment in a video made 50 years ago, considering the movement of the dust being kicked around? I'm not yet convinced this is s fact.
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  151. Maybe there are factors other than computing power that go into the decision to return to the moon or not and when?
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  152. You could become President of the United States with a stump speech like that. Unfortunately.
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  153. "millions of radiation in space" If i think that a voter should have to pass a basic test of literacy and cognition before being given a ballot, does that make me a bad person? I mean, this is how we end up with hucksters and salesmen in high office.
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  154. ​ @JohneeTruther Why would they wait 45 seconds between snapshots?
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  155.  @stellarwind1946 Is there a practical reason to send humans to the moon and risk their lives? What's the motivation? Are taxpayers excited about spending that kind of money on something with no tangible return? Your guess is as good as mine.
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  156. Yet none of them will put it in writing. That's why you camnot locate a source for your claim that the VABs are impassible by humans.
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  157. Because you need more question marks
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  158. At least you know the difference between "their" and "there," which puts you at the top of the class among deniers.
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  159. "Can you please stop saying "conspiracy theorists" " I agree that you are not theorists. More like "enthusiasts" as someone else suggested. Personally, I like the term Truther, which puts Apollo deniers in the same category with the 9/11/01 Truthers and the Obama's Birth Certificate Truthers and the Stop the Steal Truthers. The very word "truth" is pretty much shot at this point, having lost all useful meaning.
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  160.  @therealzilch  I love these stories. It wasn't that many generations ago my ancestors lived in Europe.
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  161. I find the moon photo on the right to be dubious since it's impossible to tell whether the object casting the shadow on the far right (whatever that is) is actually standing vertically and parallel to the astronaut. If two objects do not stand parallel, they are not going to cast parallel shadows.
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  162. ​ @aok4418 "Roughly 30%...." Cite?
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  163. Getting back doesn't require much at all. It doesn't require much fuel to fall to the ground, which is what the return trip is.
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  164. I don't really like the term "conspiracy theorist" either. For one thing, regarding the Apollo Question, the doubters do not have a coherent theory--instead they have a litany of speculations without rigor and without mathematics. I prefer the term Truther, personally, or to be specific, Apollo Truther.
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  165.  @EnriqueCortez-kz1sp  " if you go to the museum the foot print is not the same as the boot that they showing." They wore overboots which were discarded on the moon so they wouldn't drag dust into the spacecraft.
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  166. That's a pretty high percentage. You drive a hard bargain.
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  167.  @aok4418  "the radiation isn't deadly or dangerous" Over months, yes. Over hours, no. If you don't understand that time is a factor, then you don't understand enough to have confidence in your beliefs.
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  168.  @aok4418  Yep. Yer one of the gang, now.
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  169. ​​ @aok4418  "JohnVjau Stuste...." Considering how proliferate and trollish you have been lately, you ought to add aok4418 to your list. 0:01
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  170.  @stusue9733  I've never crawled on top of the fridge. Never yet sat in the sink. Maybe someday.
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  171. ​ @allanb52 "which bit do you want me to verify?" Where do you get 5 missions? There were 9 missions that reached the moon of which 6 landed, one was aborted in cislunar space due to an explosion and two were practice runs that orbited the moon without landing. And they were hardly flawless, A13 being the most egregious failure. What exactly would you consider as a failure? You mean someone needed to die in space for it to be authentic? The but i would most like clarification on is how NASA would have been able to perfectly simulate the ballistic motion of astronauts hoping around and dust being kicked up in a 1/6 g vacuum. The freefall trajectories of the dust has been analyzed via contemporary computer modeling and no inconsistencies were found. What you've presented is speculation and suspicions, which I'm all for--as a starting point, but not as the basis for a confident conclusion as you have drawn. Until someone can come up with a method that could have been used in 1972 to accomplish the Lunar Grand Prix with such precision that it has withstood the scrutiny of physicists and engineers the world over for 55 years, your suspicions remain dubious.
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  172.  @occhamite  Well, when the space race started, events like D-Day and V-Day were still fresh in the American psyche and we had a much closer relationship with hardship, death, challenge, and victory, and we had not yet been chastened by the Vietnam experience. We had confidence and for good reason. It was a Perfect Storm in which the cutting edge of technology met capability and motivation in a way that made the almost-impossible possible.
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  173. "why not duplicate Apollo, easy to do" They took all kinds of risks under Cold War pressure that would not be tolerable in any other context. I don't think OSHA even existed, at least not in its highly prescriptive current form
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  174. "I read somewhere..." Hmm. I'm a bit skeptical about your story here. The U.S. has generally been sharing their lunar samples all along and have indeed shared samples with China. Is it possible that you came across something on the Internet that isn't true? That happens sometimes.
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  175. They could if they had the motivation to do something so difficult, dangerous, and expensive. In fact they are in the middle of the Artemis program that aims to put boots on the lunar surface.
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  176. Yes, Doctor Strangelove is one of my favorite, if not my single favorite movie ever made.
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  177. What is solar dust composed of? I've never heard of such a thing.
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  178.  @kevinroman988  "looks close to Apollo" From an everyday point of view, without paying attention to detail, sure. But from a knowledgeable point of view, the atmospheric hazing is a dead giveaway. Also i do not recall any mountains of the moon having a sharp peak, do you? I certainly have not seen every Apollo picture, so maybe there are a few. This is the whole thing with the Apollo discussion: the truthers ignore details and try to understand what they see using "common sense" and gut feelings.
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  179.  @kevinroman988 "35:33" Actually this shot in the desert is a great example of hazing because it shows how the edges of landscape features become hazier given greater and greater distance. Not something that happens in Apollo photos.
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  180. ​ @Igoriann  "pamela anderson" This guy has gotten more attention than his vacuous posts deserve.
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  181.  @michaelstillman1171  "but it's a hideously poor signal-to-noise ratio." So true.
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  182. Just a few more exclamation marks and you would have had me.
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  183. "All one has to do is look though a telescope and you see the first stage of the LEMs still on the surface of the moon." Well, first you'd have to get the telescope and yourself into lunar orbit.
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  184. Because Bart had been stalking astronauts for some time, luring then into situations under false pretenses, cornering them, thrusting a Bible at them, calling them liars, and not taking "go away" for an answer. Bart had a history.
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  185. what
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  186. "did that person get left behind" Yes. He had a terminal illness and that was his last wish, to be left in the moon.
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  187. "can't do it today" How is "can't do it" different from "have chosen not to"?
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  188. Do you see the astronaut twisting the flagpole? That is why the fish moves. There's a horizontal crosspiece that keeps the flag unfurled, and since there is no air resistance, the fabric is free to flop about more than it would on Earth. Take another look at how the fabric flaps around--have you ever seen a flag on Earth move like that?
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  189. But you can't explain what about the video looks fake to you. Just a gut feeling, eh?
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  190.  @stusue9733  There certainly is a lot of garbage in, that's for sure.
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  191.  @kwgm8578  "skepticism + cynicism = confirmation bias" I try to remind myself from time to time that the moment I think I'm immune to confirmation bias is the moment I become vulnerable to it.
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  192. Why can't you give a source for this infotainment? An article title or video title? Some names? I mean, anyone can type any sort of b.s. he can imagine and you do.
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  193. There is no air in space or around the moon, so why would they send an aircraft? Would it not make more sense to send a rocket?
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  194.  @Semprefi  Well, why can't we use our present day tech to detect anomolies in the moon landings which were made with 1960s tech? Now, there's a serious gap. For example, the motion of dust being kicked around in the moon could be analyzed with modern methods to show that it was filmed in Earth gravity in 1 atm of pressure. Dust kicked around on the moon should follow the arc expected in a 1/6g vacuum. If you can explain how this could be faked so well that it escapes modern analysis, you'll be the first.
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  195. Because it knew it was on t.v.
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  196. ​ @information8100 "deceived cyborg" Would you go so far as to say "sheep" or even "sheeple"?
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  197. "Insults but no facts." Let's hear some of your facts. " Maybe cuz we can't. Maybe that's the layer of truth Neil spoke of. Yup all buzz had to do was put his hand on the bible. He COULDNT. U ever wonder how they keep folks quiet ? " That is speculation. How about some facts?
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  198. Or is it more like, my house was on fire so i had to jump out a second storey window to escape, but I'm not going to do it again? Why not? It's costly and there is no longer an incentive to do so.
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  199. I'm sure that a geologist could examine the rocks and prove they came from Earth.
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  200. If you think that the lander was supposed to land on Earth, then you don't know enough about astronautics, yet, to come to any conclusions.
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  201. Why do you think that?
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  202. If it were a big fraud, as stusue asked, why would NASA build a crappy looking spacecraft out of foil? Why not build something to satisfy the expectations of the masses (not to mention the engineers)? I'm interested in someone's answer to this question.
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  203. Watch this video: "Lunar Rover Vehicle Deployment Animation"
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  204. "50 degree Celsius" Let's suppose that really is the max temp for the film. What reason do you have to believe the film reached anywhere near that temperature? There's no air and therefore no air temperature. So as long as the film is not exposed directly to sunlight, how could it be heated to a high temperature?
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  205. ​ @TwentyEighthParallel  Context is for girly men.
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  206. "Armstrong resigned from the NASA, separated from his wife , bought a ranch in the country. Why??" Is this your best evidence that Apollo was fradulent?
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  207. You got that right.
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  208. There are six flags, btw.
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  209. ​ @michaelstillman1171 At least with Usenet a modicum of technical ability was required to communicate.
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  210. More of an engineering "move" than science. Though they did do some science while they were there.
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  211. These are good questions and I will do my best to answer, though I am no rocket scientist. The force of gravity is one factor but there are others, like the weight of the payload the rocket is carrying. At the lunar liftoff, the payload was far less than it was at the initial Earth liftoff. The other factor is the maximum speed you have to acheive, which was less for the lunar liftoff (or is that max speed a function of gravity and therefore not an independent factor? Anyone? Rockethead?).
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  212. "still manage to perfectly align during a solar eclipse" Check out the concept of an annular eclipse. Could be enlightening for you.
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  213. Sounds like you think you really discovered something important here. You should approach the Russian embassy with this.
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  214. Well, the folks in Houston were getting continuous streams of data (amperages, pressures, orientations, biometrics, etc, etc). If that data was bogus, someone had to be creating the bogus data and they would be among the conspirators.
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  215. For what it's worth, i think doubts are great. The problem that some people run into is they find lots of room to doubt the landings and then turn around and swallow all the conspiracy theories hook, line, and stinker.
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  216. There are no engineers, physicists or geologists who question that Apollo happened as told.
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  217. To me it is a series of rebuttals against points made in favor of the alternative narrative.
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  218. ​ @stusue9733  Absolutely. Plus i learned a new word today: numpty.
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  219. ​ @FaxNight  " can compare human behaviors and physical details" No need to wait for more video. The video from the "Lunar Grand Prix" from (I think) Apollo 15 provides an excellent opportunity to prove MATHEMATICALLY whether or not the video was filmed (and yes, it was film, which is why it's such high res). In the "Grand Prix," as it came to be known, an astronaut is driving the lunar rover through the dust over about an acre of land. The wheels are kicking up all kinds of dust which appears to freefall promptly to the ground with no lingering dust cloud as would be expected on Earth. The freefall ballistics of particles in a vacuum, with no air resistance, should follow a perfect parabola and the rate of acceleration should be 1/6 g. The video can be analyzed to see if the dust particles do indeed fall under the influence of 1/6 g in perfect parabolas. In fact, it HAS been analyzed by advanced video applications just so, in 2012. I'll look up the authors' names if you're interested. Everything was moving according to Newton's Laws of Motion. I would love to hear anyone's explanations of how a 1/6 g vacuum could be replicated on Earth.
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  220. I don't have any trouble finding photos of Earth taken from the moon.
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  221. Everything that I don't want to be true is fake.
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  222. There's a course at my uni, "Rhetoric and Deception." It's an upper level class. I'm starting to think there is a need for a lower level version and it needs to be required, for certain majors anyway. I could even see a course, "Rhetoric and the history of technology." We would start with the printing press. Or maybe with fire. Yeah, probably start with fire.
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  223.  @stellarwind1946  "all uncrewed" Everything you point to add an obstacle is just as true for an unmanned craft as one carrying humans. The terrian still has craters to avoid, with our without a man inside. I'm fact, the presence of a pilot mitigates the challenges of an uneven terrain, as he is able to respond to problems.
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  224. "extremely dry" Too dry to land a craft?
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  225. ​ @JayVee-d "why didn't you take a stab at answering the radiation question?" What can he possibly say? His claim that Armstrong et al. would have been exposed to lethal doses of radiation is utterly bogus. There's no primary source information. He's just repeating fictional claims made by the likes of Sibrel & Company. If he replies at all, it will only be to cast more insults. That's my prediction.
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  226. You might want to take another look at the Saturn V. I don't know that they used much tin.
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  227. Elon Musk has put up a giant space telescope and operates rovers on Mars? Are you sure?
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  228.  @stusue9733  I love the fact that he had to go find a phone to use at some farmhouse to call them to come pick him up.
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  229. There are no restaurants in low Earth orbit. Maybe you think space itself is a fabrication.
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  230.  @stellarwind1946  "the Orion capsule is shielded with a state of the art aluminum-lithium-magnesium alloy. The Apollo module was nothing but a thin, flimsy sheet of aluminum." But back to the basic question: where do you get "should have been lethal"? That's a cross disciplinary question of both physics and biology. Could you trace the logic that brought you to this conclusion of lethality?
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  231. Maybe you can get your money back.
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  232. First, I have yet to see evidence in favor of that claim. What is there to dispute aside from an undeveloped notion?
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  233. "the world knows [it is fake]" What makes you think so?
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  234. They had cameras that broadcast via radio signal to Earth live.
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  235. ​ @occhamite "you'd never make it as an astronaut" Charlie Duke tried it and while in mid air... er... mid vacuum, his pack pulled him off balance and he landed on his back. His buddy came over to help him up and said something like "That wasn't too smart."
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  236. At least you can spell "liar." which cannot be said for the average truther. Good job.
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  237. ​ @TheIldebrandoz "does not guarantee every shot is perfectly in focus" You might have a point if it were true that every photo they took was perfectly in focus. But that's not the case. Go flip through the archives. The subjects in a lot of the photos are not discernable because they are out of focus or badly framed.
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  238. ​ @TheIldebrandoz "reach temperatures as low as -240 degrees C" All that matters is the temperature at the landing site, not extremes possible over the entire moon. In fact, cogent to the camera discussion is only the temperature inside the camera. Which is not the same as the temperature outside the camera, and the reason for that has to do with the insulative properties of a vacuum (no convection).
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  239. Is it possible that the phone was connected to NASAs radio communications network?
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  240. The pansexual bit is creative and fresh but the freemason bit is a cliche. I can't go higher than 2/10.
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  241. The sun shines on the back of my head, and it is nighttime on my face.
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  242.  @michaelstillman1171  And there were two different Beckys on Roseanne.
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  243. There's no air on the moon, so there's no way for the foil to be torn off.
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  244. Which one is fake and which five are authentic?
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  245. The electronic device you are using uses microchips which were pioneered by NASA during the Space Race. For example.
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  246. Earth has been traveling 586 million miles every year for the past 4.5 billion years with no refuling stops. If a mass the size of Earth can travel without refueling, why couldn't a spaceship?
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  247. Why ask the same question you asked 7 days ago? You'll just get the same easily understood answers again.
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  248. ​ @therealzilch  I would be surprised if they weren't.
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  249. "no human could live" As far as i know, not one engineer or doctor agrees with you. Where did you get your information?
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  250. What about people who are very sick?
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  251. And a day on the moon is 28 Earth days. So if you're there in the days in the middle it's nice.
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  252. ​ @JoshJarrell-t9t  "believe and trust their government at their every word" Five world governments have photographed the Apollo landing sites from lunar orbit, including China, and they all say they've found everything were it's expected to be. So, to maintain the conspiracy requires a decades-long international coordination. And you also have to believe that every engineer and physicist on Earth for the past 60 years have either been fooled or played along, because there are no published papers that reveal any inconsistencies. And there are hundreds of published papers detailing the missions. Aside from that, there is material evidence in favor and absolutely none against. The idea that "trusting da guverment" is the only way to have a viewpoint on this is not true.
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  253.  @brigitte870  "not muted" Maybe so. Maybe I'm remembering wrong. Haven't watched most of this stuff in some time. But my acoustical hypothesis stands.
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  254. "Elon Musk said it would take a few trips back and forth just to take the fuel needed to go to the moon and make it back. That's with TODAY'S technology! So how did they do it in one trip back then!? Think about it..." Consider the possiblity that different missions have different fuel requirements.
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  255. Yes, conspiracy enthusiasts (as "theorist" implies some rigor) wear their beliefs as badges of honor that set them above ordinary "sheep" as they like to say. So why be satisfied with just one badge? Why stop with the moon landing when you can reject the validity of the election and be they only over on your block who really understands the evils of vaccines?
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  256. Did you know that a galaxy is larger and brighter than a flag? Did you know five countries have indeed photographed the Apollo landing sites?
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  257. Where'd you get the idea that CGI existed in the 1960s?
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  258. ​ @stusue9733 No one is going to pull the wool over MY eyes!
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  259. Most commonly by far, the reason expressed on YT is that if we'd really sent men there in the 60s/70s, then we'd have continued doing so in the following decades, too.
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  260. "ever heard of the asteroid belt" First I've heard that one. Maybe a new low.
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  261. ​​ @therealzilch  "Livestream as newspeak for t.v." I knew i had reached middle age when these neologisms started to grate on my nerves..
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  262. There was indeed a launch pad used for the lunar liftoff. Far less infrastructure is needed to launch from the moon for two or three reasons: the force of gravity is 1/6 that of Earth, and the payload carried by the lunar rocket was a fraction of that carried from Earth. They left most of the payload in lunar in orbit. A third, but less significant reason is the absence of air resistance.
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  263. The Apollo missions were just that audacious. Right on the hairy edge of Impossible. And for that reason it's understandable that folks don't believe it (ethos). But the evidence is there and, i think, beyond dispute. And the sad thing is, it was a Golden Age that can never happen again, for as long as missions are driven by digital automation, tye astronaut can never play that vital role again.
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  264. ​ @Null4eva If you were broadcasting radio signals as you were driving and engineers around the world were triangulating your location, then they would know exactly where you were.
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  265. KOOKY TOP 6 If you have typed 4 or more of the following words and phrases in You Tube posts in the past month, there is a 95% chance that you are a kook and/or numptie (Randi, 2023). 6. fish-eye lens 5. 🤣 4. sheeple 3. sheep 2. You should do your own research. 1. I did my own research.
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  266. If you can stop laughing long enough to take another look, you'll see that that wire is a 20 cm long antenna. What I'd really like to know is how you can believe that engineers all over the world--thousands upon thousands--for the past six decades could have been fooled by a fake if the wires were showing? How? I need to know.
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  267.  @stellarwind1946  "all of the citations are from the last 15-20 years" Sure, there's going to be tendency to cite recent sources on any subject matter. Why would that mean that older sources do not exist?
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  268.  @KurtBoulter  "Please ask one of those on the desks, if they could tell if telemetry came from a room next door with a deliberate 4 second delay, or a base 100 kms away, with a delay of 4 seconds, or from orbit, or from the moon?" You don't think the engineers can see which way the antennae are pointed? They have their hands on the hardware. If an engineer flips a switch and turns the antennae in a different direction, the resulting communications better respond as expected. To be able to feed them data that responds to every setting they change, every fuse they pull. . . I mean, this is a massive stream of data that can't be predicited since the engineers are making decisions on the fly. It's going to take more than a handful of people to generate all that data moment by moment 24/7 for days at a time. Then you end up with a whole parallel control room staffed by who knows how many dozens? scores? a hundred people who are keeping up the ruse? And then your hypothesis here end up with that same problem—you no longer have a small number of people who are in on it. You end up with a whole bunch of people in on it who, and for some reason, none of them have come forward, even in retirement, even unto death. Pretty damned far fetched. I'm not saying it's utterly impossible, but neither you or I knows enough about the minute operations of the space program to judge exactly what it would take to create such a large and instantaneously responsive and interconnected streams of data. I agree with Rockethead—you are being a dewdrop.
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  269. What you have here is a hypothesis. A notion. But until it's withstood honest scrutiny, it's not a conclusion. This is what so many people do on all sorts of controversial topics—they treat their notions as ending points instead of the starting points that they really are.
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  270. Depends what you mean by "it". If "it" means sending a huge payload then "it" takes more fuel. If "it" means sending just two men to the surface "it" takes less fuel. This sort of vague talk as if the basics, like payload, don't matter is worthless.
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  271. ​ @critthought2866 "aldrin and armstrong" Ah, yes, that must be her confusion.
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  272. In 1972, Apollo 17 returned three men from the moon. Since then the U.S. Congress had not approved the funds for another moonshot (until recently). Why other nations have not spent the money to go, who knows?
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  273. And where did you get that idea?
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  274. So investigating anything more than once indicates massive fraud in your mind.
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  275. Oh dear, I'm afraid you've been taken by a charlatain. Nothing you wrote is true.
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  276. A lot of people.
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  277. They weren't using old tech. They were using cutting edge stuff.
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  278. "super easy to lie" Sure, it's easy to lie. But is it easy to fool every geologist, physicist and engineer on Earth for 60 years? Now THAT'S impossible.
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  279. I suggest upping your ante to 110% at least. I'm not persuaded by anything less than 110%. And you used only one exclamation mark. Try using at least two.
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  280. ​ @HenryDurth Then why did your sun move in a circle instead of a straight line? Is it attached to the North Pole by a string?
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  281.  @stusue9733  "buoyancy disequalibrium" Sounds about right. What I have never heard explained, though, is why buoyancy disequilibrium makes heavy things go down toward the center of the Earth instead of up or even parallel to the ground.
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  282. Earth
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  283.  @aok4418  But you have no response to what others are saying about the physics of the event. You just keep repeating your conclusion. That's not a discussion. That's just you taking a stance.
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  284. ​ @aok4418  What better way to blow the dust off a landing pad than with rocket exhaust?
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  285. This is only one of my many weird hobbies, by the way.
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  286. Yes. Please don't hesitate to let me know if you have any more questions.
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  287. "So they’re trying to get us to believe that rickety bucket of bolts landed on the moon and made it back?" No, they're not. The lunar lander did not return to Earth and no one suggested it did.
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  288. You are either misremembering or misunderstanding what the astronaut said.
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  289. "Jewish scam" Speaking of "zero evidence." "the Van Allen belts exceed 3o million electron volts" How do you suppose the astronauts of Polaris Dawn survived, as they recently spent time in the VABs? Extra, extra, read all about it--that's spelled "Polaris Dawn." 0:02
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  290. More like yr mom.
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  291. So everyone who gets angry and punches some is automatically a liar, by your logic.
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  292. Yeah, well, drones don't fly well in a vacuum. Though, as thin as the Martain atmosphere is, NASA has managed to deploy one there, clever folk that they are.
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  293. "loss of data" Not true. You're buying and spreading false rumors.
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  294.  @therealzilch  " I wasn't aware that the idea of leaving the lander on the Moon and then docking in lunar orbit was rejected by NASA at first as being a pipe dream." Yeah, there was some fellow (forget his name) who championed the orbital-rendezvous approach and when he couldn't get the attention of his immediate superiors, he went over their heads and it worked. EDIT: the fellow's name is John C. Houbolt.
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  295. If that vehicle can descend to the surface of the moon, then why couldn't it take off again?
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  296.  @lorae7  "i bet you took the Covid" And... time to change subject, because this one isn't working out so well for you.
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  297. "the craft" There were nine trips to the moon. So there was more than one craft. The only thing that came back each time was the reentry capsule. You can previously find those in museums. There are copious plans and schematics you could study. And there are unused modules meant for missions that got cancelled, again in museums. What exactly do you want to see that you think you should be able to see?
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  298. Five times after that
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  299. And no one's that dumb. It was impossible to simulate all that video in 1969 and get away with it for long
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  300. Actually, lies get censored all the time. When a researcher fabricates data, publishers do everything they can to keep that out of their journals and if some b.s. slips through and is later detected, a retraction is printed. Where did you get your idea that lies are never censored? I think you just made it up because you thought it sounded smart.
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  301. Earth has been speeding through space faster than a spaceship for 4.5 billion years with no fuel whatsoever. So maybe it doesn't take as much fuel to speed through space as you think.
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  302. Who are you, indeed?
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  303. He's trying to hide something, for sure.
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  304.  @OakAthainNerin  "Why do you care what others believe?" And you asked him a perfectly legitimate question--we human beings are uber social creatures and naturally quite interested in the thoughts of others. But why? Why do we care? It's an interesting question.
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  305.  @TheWokeFlatEarthTruth  ", why are you writing such ridiculous things?" As you probably realize, the end goal is usually to dispute Copernicus and return Earth to the center of the universe.
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  306.  @marksprague1280  No that is multiilliterate, which takes real talent.
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  307.  @rrgoody  "we were using dial up for our computers back then" What i appreciate here is your good nature. You're not mean or insulting. BUT... you are wrong. There was no Internet as we know it today and, i doubt there even were Wide Area Networks, and therefore nothing to dial into. I do not know the history of computing, i admit. But neither do you. You are pulling facts out of your hat. Let's not confuse speculation for knowledge. These were isolated computers they were using, and the language of the Internet, like "dial up" was a decade or two off
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  308. The lunar lander had two stages. They descended to the surface in the first stage. This stage was left on the surface of the moon and had been photographed by lunar satellites. They ascended in the second stage which then docked with the mothership in lunar orbit.
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  309. @mistersimple1986  I see, now. Americans use a comma as the separator. As far as naming European cities, that's all you. You can't possible know that about me, and there's only one other place it can be coming from.
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  310. Maybe it's time for me to make the definitive guide to You Tube Apollo deniers. Like i need another project. After a year and a half of obsessive research i consider myself as an expert on the YT Apollo denier discourse. Though i did see a new one the other day--space blindness as an obstacle. Oh, and i saw one i didn't think could exist--that the Saturn Vs were fraudulent. I find this fascinating in the context of the ongoing US American descent into madness.
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  311. Hwat?
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  312.  @rockethead7  Thanks. I know I'm only right 95% of the time and that other 5% is important. I'm serious. Last thing I want to do is go around sounding like a dork.
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  313. ​ @michaelstillman1171 Yes! It's the combination of the two. One or the other by itself is tolerable. But mixed together they form a noxious green gas...
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  314. ​ @therealzilch  These radiation experts run his local suntan salon.
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  315. The moon has gravity. That's why it's round.
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  316. Pakistan? Really?
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  317. ​ @franknorthcuttmusic Some nice clarifications there, Frank.
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  318.  @Truth1000.  "it worked for four years" What worked for four years?
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  319. I don't see how spending hundreds of millions of dollars in space would help them with the Vietnam situation.
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  320. I didn't know Donald Trump and JD Vance lived in trailers.
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  321. if NASA faked the moon landing 50 years back, why can't they do it again, considering all the new CGI and tech advances?
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  322. Are you saying that every docking with the ISS is fradulent? And there is no ISS?
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  323. How do you figure?
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  324. Somehow i doubt Lovell as lays in bed worrying about them.
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  325.  @DiBoChet-l7z  "so one news outlet speaks for an entire nation? Interesting." Did you want @critthought2866 to provide you with a comprehensive dissertation on every news outlet and every other source of information in the Soviet Union that annouced the landing?
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  326. ​ @therealzilch Did they really!?
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  327. What technology is lacking?
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  328. Why would they continue to send men to the moon? What could a man do that a robot cannot? What would be the mission of another manned mission?
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  329. I'm not sure, but i think the Soviets had lunar satellites in place as the U.S. was accomplishing their landings.
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  330. What's one of your questions?
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  331. Because, it would have been impossible to keep secret something that produced so much data over a 5 year period, including thousands photos, scores of hours of video, traceable radio transmissions, real-time data streams, and 800 pounds of rocks. Regarding JFK it was a flash in the pan, over and done in a few seconds. And, for the record, i have not studied the JFK incident and can only guess at what happened.
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  332.  @melonbobful6940  Yes, well, there are larger issues at stake here. For example, will or country be overrun by conspiracy nutz?
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  333. "I can see Deer trails in the woods with Google Earth pics" Those deer trail photos were taken from an airplane, not from space. "And NASA could hardly be trusted as a source to debunk accusations NASA faked a landing" How's about the Soviets. Do you think they would have called out NASA if they could have?
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  334. Because, in the Cold War, the Soviets stole all of the Americans' punctuation.
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  335. That is not a scientific proof. It's socio-political evidence. Good evidence but not incontrovertible and not the only good evidence.
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  336. Exposure time matters. That's why you can't melt a chunk of ice in a microwave in 30 seconds.
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  337. Keep it PG.
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  338. What anomalies?
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  339.  @critthought2866  "GreaterSapien recently finished his debunk of Dubay's 200 Proofs" Interesting exercise. I'll probably check that one out.
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  340. Anyone familiar with "Brandolini's Law"? Any thoughts on it?
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  341. Lol! It's interesting how spontaneously these little discourse communities form. And, yes, there is a kind of poverty of thought that settles into these discussions. But i see this place as also an object of study. As a rhetoric & writing teacher, i get some fun insights and even ideas for my curriculum. The other good thing is that I've learned quite a lot about engineering, physics, and political history. And most interestingly, to me, the history of science and engineering.
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  342. "not skeptism" True. Skepticism applied in only one direction is cynicism. EDIT: I thought that line was kinda clever and i thunk it up myself. But I wasn't sure if it was really clever or if I was having a mental malfunction, so I asked the GPT if it made any sense. It replied: "Yes, it makes sense and has a certain logical clarity. The statement suggests that skepticism, when directed exclusively at one particular perspective, idea, or group, without applying the same critical thinking to all sides, stops being a balanced or open-minded inquiry and instead becomes a form of cynicism. Cynicism, in this context, implies a more negative, dismissive attitude where one is predisposed to doubt or mistrust, often unfairly or without consideration of alternative viewpoints. "It's an insightful distinction: skepticism is generally a neutral, probing stance, whereas cynicism leans toward a fixed, often pessimistic bias. Do you think this interpretation fits with what you're trying to convey?" And you know what? That's EXACTLY what I was trying to convey. You know the creepy thing I heard on a radio show a few months ago: some big shot AI guy said that when they finally crack Artifical General Intelligence that it might end up being only 10,000 lines of code or so. I'm not sure why, but I hope that's not true.
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  343. ​ @therealzilch  The JFK was the jet fired kite that was used to get last minute supplies up to the crew on the launchpad, during the countdown. As in, "I could go for a Pepsi. Could you send one up on the jet fired kite?"
    3
  344. "and if there's no atmosphere, there's only absolute shadow and absolute light" Why would the absence of air prevent light from bouncing off the ground and off rocks and off metal spaceships and white pressuresuits and scattering in all directions just like on Earth?
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  345. If someone faked the moon landing they would be called the "conspirators". Let me know if you have any more questions.
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  346. Which flag did you have in mind?
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  347. "no gravity in space" Earth is in space and there's gravity here. So there must be gravity in space. Come to think of it, everything is in space.
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  348. ​ @randyschissler5791 Looking back, they really should have kept it up. Maybe do a group of three missions every decade. Just to keep the machine from rusting and the gray matter cranking.
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  349.  @rockethead7  Yes, we discussed it and decided he ought to go first.
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  350. ​ @stusue9733  The Soviets beat the Americans to space, no doubt. But did they beat the Americans in space? They did not.
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  351. The camera was mounted to the outside of the vehicle. If it were impossible to take a selfie at that moment, the whole thing would have been debunked 50 years ago.
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  352. And where did you get this information?
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  353. If NASA had been doing moonshots all that time, it might be just that. But they haven't. You can't get good at doing something you don't practice, just by letting time pass.
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  354. Where did you get the idea that all of the data is lost? I'm interested in where this odd rumor started.
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  355. ​ @michaelstillman1171 He has no evidence. First he'll have to go rewatch a Bart Sibrel video to be spoonfed what to think so he isn't a sheeple anymore.
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  356.  @stusue9733  Wait yeah, that's what i meant. Stuff is lighter on the moon but motion on the horizontal directions would feel the same as it does on Earth. Which would take some getting used to.
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  357. Here's mine. I've tried to use authentic punctuation: "Who filmed the shuttle taking off from the moon why isn't their a crater under the lander! 😅😅😅😂😂😂😂😅😅😂😂"
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  358. Okay, but what about pictures from Apollo?
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  359. Website to find: Remove the spaces, put a real dot and remove "AN" and go to "the conspiracy test DOT orgAN". Poke around until you find Captain Zardulu. Thank me whenever you get around to it.
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  360. And what would be profitable about going to the moon? It costs money. It doesn't make money.
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  361. "reasonable to doubt" I love doubt. Agnosticism is my default state. And I've investigated all the arguments against the historicity of Apollo that i have come across. I've yet to find one that holds up to questioning for very long. But maybe you have something i haven't heard.
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  362. You have to give them credit, though, for putting together a pretty convincing line of bull. It's been over 50 years and still no one has produced any actual physical evidence of fraud at least that I know of. But, like you say, all you have to do is look in their faces and see it.
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  363. ​ @therealzilch  Exactly. I'm going to buck the mainstream by abandoning all logic and going crazy as a shithouse rat.
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  364.  @AM-rd9pu  Once quantum computing and graphene processors are perfected, all sorts of accomplishments will become retroactively impossible.
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  365.  @therealzilch  Schozophrenia used to be disqualifying from high government office, but, hey, it's the 21st century. . .
    3
  366. "conspiracy theory invented by CIA" What makes you think so?
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  367.  @RobertHolck-dw6pr  Neil did a few interviews and appearances, moreso later in life. I think he was on 60 Minutes. But, yeah, Neil was not so fond of the limelight and who could blame him?
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  368. How do you know that?
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  369.  @therealzilch  That was my first thought, too. There's an interesting asymmetry when it comes to all sorts of conspiracy theories. There's a rhetorical assumption that the credulous ones are the Believers and the Deniers are too smart for that. This dynamic is at the very heart of what motivates Deniers--a need to see themselves as too smart for that--but all the time they are duped by, apparently, every harebrained claim made by the likes of B.S. et al. It's a relatively benign phenomena in the realm of space, but we have movement of election Deniers in this country. They've already ransacked the Capitol building in an attempt to prevent the transfer of power away from their man. There's another election in a few months and they've already been instructed to reject the results if their man doesn't win. And this time they'll be better organized--from the top. It's not good.
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  370.  @critthought2866  It does.
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  371. And the customers would be the moon penguins.
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  372. The selfie was invented in 1958 by the Navy.
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  373. Cameras do not have to be held; they can be mounted to objects. For example, there is a technology called a "tripod" which was invented thousands of years ago.
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  374. ​ @AlexusYoung-r3g Or finding meaning in a sweater.
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  375. I can't even make a 3-pointer and y'all got weather satellites zooming around in space. Pfft.
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  376. what
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  377.  @michaelstillman1171  The truthers' insider info originates inside their craniums, i think. Either that or it comes with a Premium YT account.
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  378. ​ @aok4418 "stillman and stutse ee same person" How do you know?
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  379. ​ @AM-rd9pu  But my favorite is that when NASA was picking out Earth rocks to pass off as moon rocks, they thought petrified wood was a good choice.
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  380.  @stusue9733  "wall of text past filter" Yeah, who knows? Maybe they're more permissive with infrequent posters? Wild guess.
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  381. lol! Like the kids day these days, Rocketman totally destroyed you
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  382. I agree that you're using entirely too few emojis.
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  383. "ask the Japanese people how they feel about Americans" As I understand it, the government of Japan is one of the U.S.'s closest allies. And the people, in general, like American pop culture. It's not like any of the 350 million people living in the U.S. had anything to do with the bombs that were dropped by Truman et al.
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  384. ​ @therealzilch To use an old neologism, that's totally kickass.
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  385. Troll
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  386. "People are so emotionally invested..." You certainly come across as such.
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  387. If it were on Earth, then the dust would drift through the air and form dust clouds, but apparently the rover was filmed in an airless space.
    3
  388. China has photographed the Apollo landing sites and confirmed they are as expected.
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  389. Six flags. And i don't mean the amusement park.
    3
  390. ​ @pappydanny58 "breathing nitrogen" I do that all day long Doing it right now, aamof.
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  391.  @stellarwind1946  "dryness primaries dust formation" Moon rocks are reduced to dust primarily by the extreme temperature changes caused by the light-dark freeze-thaw cycle. The presence of water would make this weathering more pronounced.
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  392. "has to be duplicated" Additional soft landings on the moon have been accomplished by at least three countries. And the U.S. and the ESA together soft landed a craft on Titan, a moon of Saturn, 5 million miles from Earth.
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  393.  @KOFAKEDEM  That's what it looks like to me. He was on Joe Rogan not long ago. I have doubts that Bart believes his own spiel.
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  394. "no human could survive" Why do you believe that?
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  395.  @aok4418  "Astronauts are exposed to ionizing radiation with effective doses in the range from 50 to 2,000 mSv" I have seen that webpage. The problem is, the 50 to 2000 mSv number does not specify the time of exposure. For that reason, it's a terribly useless article. How long does it take for an astronaut beyond low Earth orbit to get 2000 mSv? An hour? A week? A month? A year? Sorry, but without knowing time of exposure, no conclusions can be extended to the Apollo missions. And according to Nufield Health "it takes a dose of 1,000 mSv in a short period of time to induce acute radiation sickness." They go on to say that lethality isn't likely until one gets to 10,000 mSv.
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  396. ​ @WalkingFree-eo8mc "governments have never lied" As if anyone has suggested as much. You've offered a textbook strawman.
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  397. What gets me is that some folks think it was impossible for them to have taken the video of Neil's descent down the ladder... if it was obviously impossible, and it was that easy to debunk the story, why haven't any engineers noticed that fact or ever bothered to bring it up? In 55 years? I mean, you're not going to sit back in your living room and discover something that the entire aerospace industry hasn't.
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  398. At least you know the difference between "have" and "of". For that you get 1 point for a total score of 1/10.
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  399.  @rgarid62  Depends what "it" is. Do you have a particular accomplishment in mind for comparison?
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  400. ​ @rockethead7 I will never understand why the fact that he parachuted the last bit was such a big deal to anyone.
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  401.  @stusue9733  Trieste
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  402. "we all know it like it didn't happen" There's not an aerospace engineer on Earth who agrees with you.
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  403. Your logic doesn't link up here. How do you get from "100 times more resistant" to "should have been lethal"? Just because 100 is a big number?
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  404.  @therealzilch  Tough to argue with that logic. After you've been knocked to the ground.
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  405. Let us get something straight--you did not "do your own research."
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  406. ​ @therealzilch i love this story. thanks!
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  407. An expert in the Cold War is in our midst.
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  408. Okay but you'll have to take your telescope to lunar orbit before you'll see anything.
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  409. Troll score = 0
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  410.  @anthonymiller8107  "go to nasa official website" You're so full of it.
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  411. That's spelled "Brahms," by the way.
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  412.  @michaelstillman1171  I'm with you on the Lunar Grand Prix and other high quality video of the ballistics of things in freefall.
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  413. I would be interested to hear from the doubters how NASA would have been able to simulate the airless low-gravity environment seen in the Apollo videos. For instance, why does the dust kicked up not form clouds or linger in the air, unless they were really on the moon?
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  414. When you quote "technological limitations," who are you quoting?
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  415. "draws something visible using light absorbing material" Interesting he wants to turn the moon into an iPad. Only THEN will it feel real. Does this say something about what The Screen has done to our thinking?
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  416. ​ @therealzilch "fallen over backwards" That's exactly what happened to Charlie Duke. He was fooling around and landed on his pack. He said the next thing he did was check his pressure gauge.
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  417.  @TheIldebrandoz  "Your obsessive focus on a single detail . . ." If the conditions the camera was exposed to, like temperature extremes, are not important to you, then what is? I mean, you're the one who brought up temperature.
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  418.  @michaelstillman1171  I find the Primitive Past Misconception an interesting phenomenon. And I wonder if it's new to present days or if it's been a common error in previous generations, to the same extent as it is now. Did folks in the 90s look down at the 30s with the same attitude of dismissive superiority? The wireless telegraph, the electric lamp, the auto and The Bomb debuted within, what?—about 60 years? But, I'd say those 60 years saw a whole lot more change in how folks had to live than the 60 years since Apollo began.
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  419. Well, practically all the engineers and scientists of the world have been convinced for the past five decades or so. The Apollo truthers are almost invariably uneducated in the sciences.
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  420. ​ @stusue9733 I think it suits.
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  421. Well, space has no temperature.
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  422. You are confused.
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  423. Stand on your head and you'll see the light.
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  424. They did take a telescope on at least one of the missions but i don't know why they bothered since a very large Earth based telescope would give better resolution than the small telescope that fit in the LEM.
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  425.  @therealzilch  Well, what could really be confusing is the fact that helicopter blades really DO "push off of the air."
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  426.  @michaelstillman1171  Yeah, i don't like my devices making decisions without my prior approval. I have disabled most of my spell checkers because i found my own ability to spell was starting to degrade. That said, i DO use some LLM AI, but i do it deliberately. I'm no across-the-board neophobe but i do like to take a piece of new tech and consider not only what it giveth but also what it taketh away. The only people i know of who are successful at that are the Amish. Everyone else mostly dives in head first.
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  427. Yours is not what i call a loving message, either.
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  428. 24 hour cycle! Have you never noticed how long it takes for the moon to go from full to new?
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  429. No, that's "moon rockET"—the Saturn V was stolen.
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  430. "We all know" Who's "we"? You and the gerbil in your pocket?
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  431. "original recordings disappeared" I guarantee you got that idea, not from NASA, but from a second hand rumor. You're repeating gossip like an old woman.
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  432. Careful you don't overheat that brain cell
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  433. i agree that "theory" is far far too generous. more like a "conspiracy notion"
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  434. ​ @stusue9733 I'm not sure if i believe in agnostics or not.
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  435. You must be president of your debate team.
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  436. @rockethead7  Interesting. Thanks for the info. Now i can build my own rocket.
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  437. Billions and billions of miles.
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  438.  @therealzilch  In my dreams!
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  439. What footage is being withheld?
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  440. Troll
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  441. Well, does the alternative theory involve a bunch of people conspiring?
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  442. Do you mean Von Braun? If so, you are wrong.
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  443.  @AM-rd9pu  He probably thinks the ISS doesn't exist. He probably thinks that space doesn't exist.
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  444. 51 isn't that old. You could be in for another 40 years.
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  445. If it's not difficult to detect, then it shouldn't be difficult for you to offer some evidence.
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  446.  @therealzilch  Well, my entire philosophical mission in life is to answer the question: "What the hell IS all this?!" I didn't have a prayer of answering that question at, say, 22. And now, in just the past year, my mission has included a corollary, which is to help 22-year-old do a better job of it than I did at that age. They've got a tough job of it, though, given the information environment they've been tossed into.
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  447. This is a 52 minute long YT video. What part exactly are you referring to?
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  448. "we erased all the telemetry... luckily we have..." Do you have reason to believe that all the telemetry was erased?
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  449. If you're writing a movie script, then yes.
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  450. ​ @therealzilch  I saw Venus at 8:35 a.m. a few mornings in a row and i was psyched.
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  451. "conspiracy theorists living in RVs and trailers" Ad hom. I live in a trailer. I would be interested to hear your explanation of why that is relevant. Go ahead. Your turn.
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  452.  @MrTurbografx16  In other words, you got nothin'.
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  453. You have offered a classic Straw Man. And it's quite well done.
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  454. Believe it or not, many of us take a scientific and analytical approach to the question, not a political one.
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  455. " the technology required is only available Now, and was not, in the sixties." I'm pretty sure radio was available in the 1960s.
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  456. Are you sure those car photos are from 400 miles away?
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  457.  @PatrickGraham-h4u  Did scores of the deceased vote for DT in the same election? Have these scores voted in every past election? I don't know. But unless those questions are answered, there's no basis to cry foul.
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  458. could you give me a link to that information? when did NASA say this?
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  459. "just to bring back a few rocks" This shows abject ignorance on the subject.
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  460. On Monday my new job starts--teaching a freshman Rhetoric and Writing course at a U.S. university. I might actually use some of the stuff in this comment section. But I'm sure as hell not telling my students that my nickname is Gives Bad Advice. Anyone else care to share what his or her profession is?
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  461.  @michaelstillman1171  The spelling suggests a doughnut, which can only be a good thing.
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  462.  @rockethead7  Yeah. It's become a reflex.
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  463. If the fed was force to run in 5% of their current revenue, you'd be speaking Chinese in about a year.
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  464. ​ @franknorthcuttmusic The ballistics visible in the Grand Prix film is conclusive by itself, in my estimation.
    3
  465.  @stusue9733  His cave diving freak out was especially memorable.
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  466.  @stusue9733  Nice thing about a knob is that you don't have to take your eyes off the road to use it. It's always in the same place and you can feel it--two characteristics i like auto controls to have.
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  467. ​ @stusue9733  This idea that anything that's new is necessarily better in every way is bad news. That's why the interior a new cars looks like an Imax theater. And when did keyholes go out of fashion? And door handles! When something breaks i like to be able to see what is broken so i have a prayer of fixing it. Don't get me wrong--i love my digital gadgets, but in small judicious doses. This compulsive rejection of the mechanical analogue world is foisted on us by our oversized digital gadget industry, not because it makes our lives more fulfilling but because there's far more profit to be made selling a $2000 keyless entry system than a $200 mechanical lock. Then we complain that things are so expensive! What any of this has to do with the OPs comments i have lost track of.
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  468. What you have here are some good questions to investigate. But until you make an effort to answer them, how can you come to any conclusions?
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  469. Not that it matters, but they did not all live long lives. Swiggert did not see his 52nd birthday. The venerable Commander Lovell, on the other hand, is still kicking.
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  470. ​ @stusue9733 Yeah. That easy. No knowledge required. No GED required. No brain required.
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  471.  @therealzilch  May they rest in micropeace.
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  472. "What about the van Allen radiation shields how do they get through that" In a spacecraft, of course. At thousands of miles per hour. How else? "And the micro meteorites how come none of them got killed and in 3 days you didn't even see a single micromedia when in 24 hours there are thousands of them" Well, if that were the case then the folks doing spacewalks around the ISS would be screwed.
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  473. They brought the film with them on the way home, in the spacecraft. How would you get it back?
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  474. You wrote that no one in earth could ever fly the lander right. But that's not true. You can find video here on YT of the simulator being flown just fine. Yes, there was one crash, but that is expected in the testing phase in a new machine.
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  475. What about it looks fake to you?
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  476.  @stusue9733  Well, okay, true. But still, I'm tired of just reading about this stuff in books. I want action!
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  477. There are three rovers on the moon in three different locations.
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  478. ​​ @EDM-Jigger  Is this where we're going? ChatGPT is going to do folks' thinking for them? What you have copypasted here does not even make sense--sound waves cannot travel in a vacuum GPT says. So what? They were in a spacecraft which was full of air, or a spacesuit full of oxygen.
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  479. You must think the Kardashians invented the selfie in 2016.
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  480. This is pure trolling
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  481. There is generally air in the desert, so it's not clear why video from a desert would show no signs of air resistance, as seen in the Apollo video.
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  482. "Don't know" I bet that's not all you don't know.
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  483. The Tiangong space station just orbited above my house. At first i thought it was a regular satellite, which pissed me off because i know They're going to start littering the night sky. But i checked it with my real time astronomy app and, yep, Tiangong. I was so psyched! I just happened to walk outside and look up and, bam!, there was. So cool! Super duper mega cool. It's like winning the stargazer's lottery. And NOW I'm on a mission to get a glimpse of the ISS.
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  484. On the Internet you can find photos of the landing sites taken by five countries over the past 25 years.
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  485. Well, for those of us who care about where there Earth came from and how the solar system was formed, Apollo was invaluable. What they could learn by going back, i don't know.
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  486. @rockethead7  That's probably why Charlie Chaplin always scurries around like a mouse.
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  487. You are driven by fear. You have serious trust issues.
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  488. Is that your best attempt at an argument?
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  489.  @DontJustStandThere  "More than one video made by NASA admitting we have yet to travel beyond LEO. There's this thing, it's called G O O G L E ..." I'd bet my breakfast that you are referring to a statement from NASA saying that they NO LONGER have a heavy lift rocket capable of enough payload to get people to the moon, since the Saturn V was taken out of service. Although. . . that's no longer true—they DO now have just such a rocket. If you reference the title of the article you have in mind, we can look at it and I'll show you what I mean.
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  490. A perfectly reasonable attitude, i think. I care only because i think that space is cool and abnormal psychology is cool and rhetoric is cool and this forum brings them together.
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  491.  @jasonyambor3272  There were lots of photos of stars taken from the surface by Apollo 16. Though those photos would be practically identical to photos taken from Earth orbit, given the distance to even the nearest stars. There's nothing so special about star photos taken from the moon. Large earthbound telescopes of the time could probably take better photos than the little telescope that could be stowed on a manned mission, even accounting for atmospheric distortion. (Just my guess.) Seems it would be better to send equipment like that on a robotic mission and take the photos at night. There's nothing so special about having an astronaut present on the moon while the photos are taken. Disclaimer: i am an English instructor, not an astronomer.
    2
  492. The camera was attached to the outside of the lander.
    2
  493. And the insides of the pressuresuits weren't at a full 14 psi, not even close.
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  494. Seems so.
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  495. ​ @77-ty7gb Discount on ice! I love it! You win! What you win i don't know but you definitely win.
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  496.  @therealzilch  "as water for fish" It's interesting then for me ponder what is all around me that I have never thought to question, in that same way. The search for understanding through agnosticism.
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  497.  @jucehnn  - Do you know how many layers of ripstop those suits are made from?
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  498. The Biblical literalists are boring. It's much more interesting when they try to talk physics.
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  499. "amateur telescope" Don't think so. Not even close.
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  500. "People use common sense" You are using common sense to understand radiation belts? How is that working out for you?
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  501. ​ @critthought2866  At least he didn't spell "liars" as "liers." That's worth something.
    2
  502.  @marblox9300  "Then explain why THEY say they are planning on going back to Moon and even Mars." Well, another space race is heating up again, this time with China. Trump created the Space Force for this reason and he also approved Artemis, largely in response to other nations' recent advancements in aerospace tech.
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  503. ​ @marblox9300 "there was no desire to continue building pyramids, but there still is a huge desire for humans to go to other worlds, which they cannot do" What would be the mission objective of sending men back to the moon? What can a human do there that a robot cannot?
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  504.  @stusue9733  True, only the CSM had the fuel cells, as you say. I'm glad there's someone around to keep me honest. As far as A13, my understanding is that one (or two?) of the three fuel cells stopped functioning when/because the oxygen tank blew a leak--it stopped functioning because oh two was needed for the reaction. If I'm wrong I'd like to know.
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  505. They used three fuel cells to recharge the batteries. This is what happened in Apollo 13--an explosion took out one of the fuel cells, so they had to high-tail it home.
    2
  506.  @therealzilch  A gazillion might do it, but only if it also has super hi-def livestream cameras. Low res cameras don't have enough thrust.
    2
  507. Sure. Question anything. Also question claims of conspiracy.
    2
  508.  @lorae7  "one day when they figure out how to get through the VABs" You are misinterpreting what you heard. I know the video you're talking about. It's called 'Trial By Fire,' it was made for children, and he says they are testing the Orion module to see how the electronics fare in the VABs. Modern electronics are much more sensitive than the big chunky electronics they used in 1968. Do you really think that all the world's engineers would accept Apollo as told of it were so easy to debunk as you think? You got to be nuts to think you've figured out something that PhDs around the world haven't.
    2
  509.  @therealzilch  Nothing is too obvious to mention in a discussion with conspiracy enthusiasts.
    2
  510. You might be interested to know that another naked eye comet has been detected and it may be brighter than A3 and even brighter than Venus. Now that's BRIGHT! That means that at point it'll be the brightest thing in the sky (unless the moon is up). It'll be the ONLY thing in the sky! By the way, here's a fun question for our "space is fake" folk--where do you suppose these comets are coming from and why do you suppose the flat Earth "scientists" are unable to predict their arrival?
    2
  511.  @therealzilch  I'm going to start saying that. Next chance i get.
    2
  512.  @therealzilch  I didn't realize that was ever a word. I thought I invented it myself.
    2
  513. Hwat?
    2
  514.  @williamchapman5745  You might have been on the moon but if they landed some miles away you would never see them.
    2
  515. Why do you think it didn't happen?
    2
  516. So if a passenger jet crashes, that means air travel is impossible--that's your logic.
    2
  517.  @OakAthainNerin  You asked him.
    2
  518. ​ @OakAthainNerin Why do you care why Frank cares?
    2
  519. ​ @thomassteele9649 What proof is there the The Pale Blue Dot isn't authentic?
    2
  520. Hit n run troll.
    2
  521. ​ @stusue9733 I think it's got a nice ring.
    2
  522. @therealzilch  Har har har! That's ridiculous! My cellphone barely has enough thrust to leave Earth!
    2
  523.  @jdl1276  "when you put too many key words in a comment the toob won't post it" Interesting.
    2
  524. "we have gone back with the technology" Aerospace technology had advanced quite a lot. Are you familiar with the Casini mission, for example?
    2
  525. ​ @stusue9733 He is probably multilingual.
    2
  526. Well, in the past 5 years, your neighbors have taken photos of the debris and disturbances at the Apollo sites and everything they see is just as it was claimed to be (as far as the descent modules, the flags, the tracks from the rovers.) Look into the photos of the Apollo sites taken by the lunar orbiter called Chandrayaan-2. Japan also has a lunar orbiter that has taken the same photos of the same sites. And so does China, but I don't think China has made their photos public. At least I can't find them. Other proofs include hundreds of hours of video evidence that would have been impossible (I think) to fabricate in 1969-72. In particular, the ballistic behavior of the dust kicked up by the astronaut's boots and the rover's wheels. Dust thrown around in an airless environment with 1/6th of the gravity of Earth would have been impossible to replicate on Earth.
    2
  527.  @rrgoody  My 14 seconds of research shows the first dial up developed in 1979 at Duke University.
    2
  528.  @mistersimple1986  1 kg weighs 2.2 pounds. I think you're seeing "kilo" and thinking that means you multiply by 1000.
    2
  529.  @dutchymon  it's true that engineers get paid.
    2
  530.  @rockethead7  There's a 5% chance I'm wrong about the 95%. Maybe more.
    2
  531. Apollo had been confirmed and reconfirmed and reconfirmed again over the past 55 years, by engineers all over the planet. Five countries have photographed the landing sites in the past 20 years and found the tenants where expected.
    2
  532.  @michaelstillman1171  Probably, like, at least 50.
    2
  533.  @Freedo1234  "Armstrong reply to a girl same question" And what question was that? Care to quote what the girl asked?
    2
  534. ​​ @thomassteele9649 Evidence comes from probes with instrumentation, not the mannerisms of the people in an interview. Numbers, man. And i admit that i don't know the numbers and i haven't read the studies. But it's really hard for me to believe that the world's radiobiologists are either all wrong or all in on the ruse. I say "all" because as far as i know, there's no one who's come out and said otherwise. But, then again, i haven't studied the issue, so maybe someone knows otherwise 1:06 .
    2
  535. "when elon musk with space x was the first" Well, that's an easy one—Mush wasn't first.
    2
  536. What did China find that showed Apollo to be fraudluent?
    2
  537.  @marksprague1280  "Goddard" Now there's a futurist for ya.
    2
  538.  @occhamite  Yeah, i don't see it anymore.
    2
  539. ​ @occhamite You make a good point, occham
    2
  540. It's nice to see "dumbasses" get through Google's filters.
    2
  541.  @stusue9733  I've listened to the "directors' loop" of the audio from 13 so many times i know it by heart. I used to listen to it on my 45 minute drive to work every morning. For about a month last year.
    2
  542. Just to use your math.... 5% of 400,000 is 20,000. That a lot of people to keep quiet for 50 years, especially after they've retired.
    2
  543.  @stellarwind1946  " I just checked google images and people snap photos of the night sky all the time." Yes people take photos of the night sky. But you seem to be missing the point. You don't see the moon and stars in the same photo unless they have specialize equipment.
    2
  544. "They never provided a satisfactory explanation for the lack of stars seen. If the photographs were taken with the sun behind the camera, it wouldn’t be too bright to obscure other stars from being seen.: Yes it would be. You can investigate this right now by doing an image search for "photo of moon in my backyard." Those photos don't show stars, either.
    2
  545. There's likely a lot of overlap with "stop the steal" folk, too.
    2
  546. ​ @critthought2866 Terribly rude, come to think of it.
    2
  547. This is according to whom?
    2
  548. My car won't do over 100 so Nsscar is a fraud. I can't run a mile so the New York Marathon never happened.
    2
  549. ​ @michaelstillman1171  "And don't criticize what you can't understand" --Bob Dylan, The Times They Are a-Changin'
    2
  550. You're repeating a story that you heard bits and pieces of--with complete confidence. Where does the confidence come from when you can't even name who did the giving that you refer to, and who claimed it was a moon rock? Your thought process here is undistinguishable from the superstition that has kept humanity's face in the mud for 5000 years.
    2
  551.  @rockethead7  Yes, the voyage of the Trieste is an apt comparison--dangerous and expensive with no promise of profit. A stunt. A very good and admirable stunt.
    2
  552. That is what i would say if i worked in a Russian bot farm.
    2
  553. "they have lost control of the narrative." Not among the world's physicists, aerospace engineers, and geologists. Or even among the semi-educated.
    2
  554. It's understandable that the long stretch without crewed landings has raised eyebrows. My question for you is: what would be the motivation to risk human life on another crewed mission? What would astronauts do on the surface that a series of robotic missions could not?
    2
  555.  @stusue9733  Well, yeah. Kooks of the world unite!
    2
  556. Loved your interviews on PBS, Chuck.
    2
  557. ​ @TheWokeFlatEarthTruth He hasn't got a clue what corona is.
    2
  558. Been there and back.
    2
  559. You've hit the nail on the head
    2
  560. "no trouble, right?" Wrong. Of course they made lots of mistakes, suffered lots of setbacks.
    2
  561. "NASA lost all the moon landing record and documents" Where did you get that idea? The very video you are commenting on is a record of the moon landings.
    2
  562.  @ayandadlungele8873  This is my favorite denier complaint because it reveals a deep ignorance of the history and progression of the technologies of the Electric Age. Folks seem to think that the cell phone inaugurated wireless communication, when in fact Marconi et al. accomplished wireless telegraphy in the late 1800s. So many folks are carrying around "devices" which might as well be magic wands.
    2
  563. ​ @occhamite Voice-to-text?
    2
  564.  @therealzilch  Well, that much is true. We reside in the box and only make forays outside. Too confusing and chaotic to stay outside all the time. But staying inside all the time is no fun and terribly monotonous.
    2
  565.  @therealzilch  I see what you're saying. If that scene were in a movie, and the astronauts were anything but jubilant for a moment, that would be a signal to the audience that something is amiss. It could be an interesting area of study—how exposure to fictional narrative expectations, since childhood, colors one's perceptions of the news and other real events. Well, tee vee news structures their presentation of events to meet audience expectations. For example, I rememeber when the U.S. attacked Baghdad in 2003, the NBC tee vee news and all the others created these intros with flashy graphics and high gravity music and that became the signal that you were about to get the next episode in the drama.
    2
  566. ​ @therealzilch  I see what you're saying about folks expecting real life dramas to follow the same patterns as fictional storylines.
    2
  567. Rattlesnakes are quite trustworthy creatures. They are never aggressive and their behavior is predictable.
    2
  568. "That and the internet has been virtually scrubbed clean of all Moon Skeptic vids" I have no trouble finding loads of em.
    2
  569. Agreed. They're not fit to shine the shoes of the men that came before them.
    2
  570.  @stusue9733  No surer way to reduce IQ points than to "do your own research."
    2
  571. Glen Lunney, Gene Kranz, Buzz Armstrong, Chris Kraft, and all the rest went to hell, but in no time they built themselves a rocket and got the hell out of there.
    2
  572.  @rockethead7  " I have no idea if it's visible or not." It's visible. Thanks. It's interesting to see how information and ideas get mangled and repackaged by conspiracy sites and then regurgitated by folks like @stellarwind.
    2
  573.  @stellarwind1946  1. Do you have an article title for that, so i can find it myself? 2. Are you sure that the radiation encountered in deep space is x-ray? My understanding is that it's largely charged particles which is not x-rays and not even electromagnetic radiation at all, so your comparison to a chest x-ray is of questionable validity.
    2
  574. True.
    2
  575. what
    2
  576. When i stand in the last light of the evening, i can't help but notice that my legs cast converging shadows. Must be some shenanigans afoot.
    2
  577. 158 to 329 mi/hr at deployment of the drogue chute according to the "space stackexchange".
    2
  578. You've got a dumb conspiracy belief but a cool YT channel. Guess no one is perfect.
    2
  579.  @therealzilch  I make my living reading text like that--text with sound ideas buried under cryptic phraseology. I teach freshman composition at a state school.
    2
  580. What?
    2
  581. Sounds like you're ready to believe any old b.s. you hear on the 'Net.
    2
  582. Yes, works for me.
    2
  583. You're sending some balls down a ramp. Temperature is the aversge velocity, heat is the sum of all the velocities. 50 slow balls have more heat but less temperature than 5 fast ones. Yes?
    2
  584. ​ @therealzilch lol
    2
  585.  @rockethead7  Embedded in this: 'We aren't even told what a virus is.." is a kind of helpless dependency that manages to tug at my heartstrings.
    2
  586.  @therealzilch  "a land of plenty where the birds fly already cooked into your mouth. Lots of fun." I'll say! Better than the Big Rock Candy Mountain!
    2
  587. Instructions for Essay #3: "The first step in essay #3 is identifying a worthy interlocutor for your argumentation. Because the goals of Essay #3 include finding common ground and building consensus, your interlocutor can’t just be anyone who disagrees with you. They must be someone who you think is arguing in good faith, meaning that they share your intentions of seeking the truth, solving problems, and reasoning well." So, I ask myself--shall I practice what I preach? And I answer myself--"sometimes, yes". But sometimes I'm out for sport. Like quail hunting.
    2
  588. Why do you think the video is fraudulent?
    2
  589. ​ @stellarwind1946  "the ability to cross the Atlantic was not mysteriously lost after the first successful crossing." They went 8 times after the first crossing to the moon. And if there really were a "mystery," as keyboard warriors claim, at least one of the world's aerospace engineers or physicists would have published on the matter in the past 55 years, at least once.
    2
  590. ​ @michaelstillman1171  In the U.S., it goes back at least to Salem, Mass.
    2
  591.  @dansv1  "with a lie about it being for a Japanese children’s science TV show." Really?! What a slimeball! He should be honored that a man like Aldrin was kind enough to give him some time.
    2
  592. There's some basic facts you're missing here. Firstly, there were six lunar modules that went to the moon. Secondly, none of them could possibly come back because they were left on the moon or in lunar orbit.
    2
  593. Inertia is independent of mass, is it not?
    2
  594. what makes you think this hasn't been done? look into the lunar orbiters currently being operated by several countries
    2
  595.  @therealzilch  True. Or maybe God knew Mendel and Darwin weren't scheduled for birth for a few thousand years and He didn't want to confuse everyone befire it was time.
    2
  596.  @therealzilch  lol!
    2
  597.  @therealzilch  Bird is to bat as fish is to whale?
    2
  598.  @therealzilch  And, personally, I like having some understand of where this here solar system came from, which learning about the moon did for us.
    2
  599. Some folks are interested in the world and its history for its own sake, not only when knowing can get them something materially.
    2
  600. ​ @MYGIRLS48 "Never happened" There's a hard-hitting argument. You must have been captain of your debate team.
    2
  601. The heliocentric model of the solar system is certainly part of the global narrative. By your reasoning, that's reason enough to reject it.
    2
  602.  @franknorthcuttmusic  It's connected to a larger effort to promote thoughtful critique and understanding of logical fallacies at (remove spaces, put real dot and remove PANY): "your logical fallacy is DOT comPANY'.
    2
  603. there were dozens of engineers working 24 hours a day at mission control. does it seem possible to you that they were tracking a ship that does not exist?
    2
  604. "+240 to -240" That is the temperature range across the entire moon over the course of both day and night. Each Apollo mission landed in one place and stayed for only part of the morning, with the sun low in the sky. In that case, what would cause such wild temperature swings?
    2
  605. Why no exclamation points?
    2
  606. I suppose planetary astronomers have some idea what to expect regardless that they haven't been there.
    2
  607. "Technology wasn’t there" What technbology wasn't there?
    2
  608. You make some good points.
    2
  609. "with today's technology" What technology is lacking?
    2
  610. Why did you kick my dog yesterday?
    2
  611. "Trumpers" I stashed away the little bit of political paraphernalia we had in the front yard. I even have bags packed to high-tail it to safer grounds if things turn bad. Probably won't come to that but it's not too hard to pack a bag. My wife was in India when Indira was assasinated in '84 and things got pretty bad there she says. Everything came to a screeching halt immediately. I don't expect it here but... DT has a record of fanning the flames and if he decides to do that, then all bets are off. It is doubtful he would do that as long as he's ahead and the election looks like s shoe-in for him what with the sympathy vote. What i am certain of is that we won't see any more rational consideration of the evidence by most of the public following this event than we see by the Apollo truthers. In this way, with the fuel of ignorance, rumor burns and spreads feeding on itself. 1:07 1:07
    2
  612. I haven't noticed any increase in that sort of thing, but what it zaps is weird sometimes. I've found i cannot mention the online service created by the world's biggest search engine used to bring up scholarly journal articles that goes by the name GS. I'm sure they have their reasons.... I guess if you want a real debate forum, go to the one that begins with the letter R. But back in the day, we got along just fine with Usenet. 1:06
    2
  613.  @kabuin  "on the moon this 2024" They've been working on getting there only for the past 10 years with Artemis, and without the pressures of a Space Race. It's not surprising to me that it would take longer than a decade, considering the relatively paltry funds made available for the effort.
    2
  614. How about Apollo 12? Do you feel differently about that one?
    2
  615. Folks who questioned "WMD in Iraq" were never labeled as conspiracy theorists, were they? For example.
    2
  616. Is this what passes for wit and wisdow this year of our Lord 2024?
    2
  617.  @critthought2866  The ice penguins are the primogenitors of the moon penguins, as i understand it.
    2
  618. You wouldn't need all 400k of them in on it.
    2
  619. There are photos and video of Earth taken from the moon.
    2
  620. I think you're right.
    2
  621. ​ @michaelstillman1171 Boggle... there's one that hasn't crossed my path for about three decades.
    2
  622. You're proposing a continuing and massive international conspiracy spanning five decades and at least five countries, which is not recognized by any professional engineers it scientists. Is that about the size of it?
    2
  623. on one hand you say "question everything." then in the next breath you say car closed n "that's all i need to know." let me assure you, there's more to know.
    2
  624.  @therealzilch  I wonder if it's possible to have a conspiracy that a majority of the population is in on.
    2
  625. "there's no footage of being on the moon or any planet" Where did you get that idea?
    2
  626. ​ @chichibraap1198  "better to be in jail than homeless" I've been both and no one in his right mind would choose jail over homelessness.
    2
  627. if the humans could withstand it then why couldn't film?
    2
  628. Hard to take things SUCCESSFULLY, i would add. It's easy to fake things sloppily. But fooling every editor of every peer reviewed engineering journal for 55 years is not easy, and probably impossible.
    2
  629. Can you offer any reason to think it was specifically Kubrick? As the other commenter said, none of his movies looked even similar to the real thing.
    2
  630.  @FreeDocumentaryHistory  Cool.
    2
  631.  @Memorylane1957  I haven't watched the video in a while but I think they're talking about all the manned missions to the moon. The capsules that splashed down were all returning from lunar orbit. A critic of Apollo might say that the capsules either came from Earth orbit, were somehow dropped from an aircraft, or were simply dumped into the sea without ever having been off the ground.
    2
  632. Yeah, well, they didn't use cell phones to communicate with the moon.
    2
  633. Because Saturn is about 250 million times greater in diameter than the rover. But it's only 4000 times farther away. So the difference in diameter overwhelms the difference in distance from Earth.
    2
  634. sound like you just get jerked around by government info. you think automatic rejection is somehow more thoughtful that automatic acceptance. there is a third option ..
    2
  635. It was hard then. Still hard now. Probably because it's the moon and quite some distance from Earth.
    2
  636. You might find interest in a video called "Apollo 8 - Book Of Genesis Reading (December 24, 1968)."
    2
  637.  @therealzilch  Personally, I don't find this sort of ungrounded rant as any improvement over a Denier's ungrounded rant. It's possible to believe the truth but for the wrong reasons. In the Landing Debate, I think it's more important HOW someone gets to belief X or Y than which one they get to—from the point of view of social health and the maintenance of democratic civil society.
    2
  638. It's easy to say stuff like that. Not so easy to back it up.
    2
  639. Which anomaly do you mean?
    2
  640. Because it's more difficult to fly to the moon than to make a television. Next question?
    2
  641.  @stellarwind1946  "easily easily disturbed because of it's extreme dryness" Oh, when you said the dryness contributed to dust formation, i thought you are talking about dust formation.
    2
  642. And that was not an isolated incident. The guy has a history of harrassing astronauts. It's his hobby.
    2
  643. It's been done which further justified what was already known to be true.
    2
  644. The astronauts themselves.
    2
  645. if you think the moon has an atmosphere, you might want to learn a little more before coming to any conclusions
    2
  646.  @aok4418  "It's hilarious..." Again, do you have any evidence to present? You say NASA's own words--what are those words?
    2
  647. ​ @aok4418 You say that the Apollo astronauts were exposed to lethal doses of radiation. Where did you get this information? Who did the study you refer to? I would bet my firstborn that you can't provide the authors' names or article title.
    2
  648. Humans have evolved since 1972? What makes you think so?
    2
  649. nine times. they went nine times.
    2
  650. ​ @tom-c1j2p But did it look like the size of V8 juice can?
    2
  651. ​ @dannyhendy "they couldn't have gone with that tech" What technology do you think was lacking? Of your able to give a reasonable answer to this question, you'll be the first i know of. Take up the challenge! It should be easy since you say it's blindingly obvious.
    2
  652.  @JorgenBlomqvist-po7zk  yes, but Japan and India have lunar orbiters that take high res photos that show the tracks made by the Apollo mission and the equipment left behind. these photos are easy to find.
    2
  653. That's nice.
    2
  654.  @rockethead7  I respect the Frenchman's committment to defining the purity of their champaign &tc, but they weren't in a position to do the same with an orbital spaceflight.
    2
  655. yeah, i hear then all the time on You Tube. i would be drunk as a fish in no time
    2
  656. "he exposed their lie" And what scary evidence was Bart exposing?
    2
  657. ​ @ApolloKid1961 The other 5 happened.
    2
  658. Do you think folks are more discerning today than last century? What makes you think so? I see oodles of dumbasses right here in these comments.
    2
  659. You seem confused about what the word "conspiracy" means.
    2
  660.  @Tim22222  Neowise was kickass. It was so kickass that even my WIFE found a passing interest in it.
    2
  661.  @eriksturdevant8589  Well, yeah, i guess they are technically particles
    2
  662.  @eriksturdevant8589  ""electromagnetic particles" That's a new one.
    2
  663. Okay, so no matter what i do and say, if someone punches me in the face, i must be telling the truth. Is that the rule?
    2
  664.  @JayVee-d  "I still can't seem to remember when to use "whom" and when not to" If there's a doubt in my mind which to use I default to "who" because the last thing I want to do is sound pretentious AND be wrong at the same time. Being wrong takes all the glory out of being pretentious.
    2
  665. Well, at least you are able to identify a rock when you see one.
    2
  666. Where did you find the Chang'e photos of the Sea of Tranquility? I didn't think they were released to the public.
    2
  667. If it was fake, why haven't they faked it again, considering the advances in CGI that would make it so much easier to fake.
    2
  668. It would be easy to fake but impossible to get away with for even a few months, let alone decades.
    2
  669.  @rockethead7  Interesting. They considered the repetition as spam?
    2
  670.  @rockethead7  Yeah, see it. Interesting tidbit, too.
    2
  671. ​ @fuckyougeorgebush You can brush off a case that contradicts your claim by typing "whataboutism" but a reasoned response would be more persuasive.
    2
  672.  @stusue9733  Gosh, now it's all coming back to me... something about specific heat and raising the temperature of a cubic centimeter of water by one degree C...
    2
  673. A vacuum is the absence of matter. How can nothing have a temperature?
    2
  674. Because they knew they were going back and would have a chance to take a color t.v. on a later mission with more EVA time.
    2
  675. I don't think there's much x-ray radiation in space.
    2
  676.  @stusue9733  I'm thinking that it's simply a badge of honor to reject that which is accepted by "the mainstream", especially highly visible events under federal perview. Both Apollo and the Trinity test bombs fit that description beautifully. Especially because there there is video to go with it. By badge of honor, I mean that it establishes one's identiy. One becomes a member of the club and along with it comes all the social reinforcement that goes with memberships. Then once one has decided he would like to be a member, then it's just a matter of anayzing the video until you find something that seems to be an anomaly. And that can be accomplished with any video you set your mind to. But video taken from another world, like the moon, with all its weird physics is absolutely dripping in opportunities. After about a year of intensive study, this is my thesis.
    2
  677. ​​ @stusue9733 I bet they say the clip of that wooden building being slammed by a pressure wave shows a scale model. I bet if i go to the comments on that clip right now, that's what I'll find.. EDIT: Just checked it out and sure enough. Conspiracy talk dominates the comments, as well as fascinating with The Cameraman.
    2
  678. It's easy to fake it if you intend to only fool Joe Couch Potato. If you intend to fool all the world's engineers and physicists, then it's impossible.
    2
  679.  @TheIldebrandoz  "nonsensical ramblings" It is hardly nonsensival to point out that the temperature of the landing site is relevant and the extreme temps found in some other part of the moon are not relevant. I mean, if you were in Miami, would you look at the weather forecast for Point Barrow, Alaska and dress in a parka?
    2
  680.  @therealzilch  That sort of transgenerational contact is neat and enlightening. My grandfather raised me and I've grown up with an understanding of Depression era rural USAmerica. Though he cannot remember a time without cars or even a time when anyone still rode horses for transportation. I asked him about that a week ago. He was born in the spring of 1921.
    2
  681. ​ @dildan1038 1901... And Tesla controlled a toy boat remotely a few years before that.
    2
  682. It's been done
    2
  683. NASA built a time machine and brought computer engineers from Pixar back to 1968. In all seriousness, you'll never get a response to this because there is no response. It's incontrovertible proof, as far as i can tell.
    2
  684.  @jamesmiley5727  Yes, it's visible. During the day, by definition.
    2
  685.  @jamesmiley5727  "They say no stars are visible in the vacuum of space right?" So very wrong.
    2
  686.  @jamesmiley5727  "Where is the picture of the sun?" Go to the Project Apollo Archives and find some. I'm not sure why you are so certain they don't exist. Have you looked? I know that at one video camera was ruined because the astro pointed out at the sun and damaged it. Occasionally the sun inadvertantly comes into view but they're not going to focus on it for long because they're no reason to and it's hard on the equipment.
    2
  687. ​ @TheWokeFlatEarthTruth He hasn't seen the sun o in frame in the six videos he's watched. Therefore the sun is invisible. I think that's the thinking here.
    2
  688. "not once did they do a 360" If you find out they did (and they did), would you enter that into your thinking about the historicity of Apollo? Because it's no fair pointing out what you imagine is a weakness in an argument, then finding out you were wrong, and then not recalibrating. Now is it?
    2
  689. ​ @Cutiepies-w1t "it's a simulation" That is undoubtedly true and the simulation is being generated by our nervous systems as we speak. The patterns of light that you are decyphering right now have no inherent meaning.
    2
  690. ​ @therealzilch A bun is the lowest form of wheat. . . i love it! He must have coined that before "low carb pita pockets" had found their way from the laboratory to the grocery store.
    2
  691. Something tells me you do not speak Hebrew.
    2
  692. @stusue9733  Especially given that the "mines" on the moon are on the surface, visible, in the form of boulders. And in Neil's descent, for example, he could see them and avoided them quite deliberately.
    2
  693. @therealzilch  The man tapped yesterday as the new Secretary of Defense of the world's largest military said that he doesn't care about germs because he cannot see them. Yes, it was a joke, but I'm afraid not entirely. Earthlings beware!
    2
  694. Helicopter? Helicopters require air.
    2
  695. The photographs are fake in what way, according to what you say Google says? There was no CGI at the time, because there was no digital photography. So what about them is supposedly fake? If it's doing a freefall trajectory analysis, that is something i'd be quite interested to hear more about. 11:39
    2
  696. ​ @occhamite "Las Vegas" I'm not arguing that Dems do not do awful things. I'm arguing that they have not been making plans to violently overthrow this election. And the MAGAs have.
    2
  697. ​ @occhamite The Proud Boys have been openly making plans, on Telegram, to respond with violence if they didn't like the election results. And a mob wearing red hats broke into the Capitol, not long ago looking for the Vice President expressly to interfere with the election. BLM, rotten as they are, I agree, have made no plans to overthrow an election. If you have evidence that there was an organized plan by BLM or the Dems to violently overthrow the election, i would like to hear about it. And if you have evidence that there was an organized effort to falsify election results in PA, i would like to hear about that, too. I'm into evidence and i do change mind when presented with good verifiable evidence.
    2
  698.  @therealzilch  Cool! I will!
    2
  699. ​ @therealzilch "hypothesis , guess" And often "notion" is on the mark.
    2
  700. ​ @michaelstillman1171 A well-heeled device is a good device.
    2
  701. There is no video of the first steps taken from a distance. You're probably looking at video of the second astronaut descending or video taken on the second EVA of a mission, after the equipment was sent up the day before.
    2
  702. the Soviets also acheived the first deaths in space and the first death upon reentry. and what the Soviets never accomplished was a rendezvous and docking. that alone would keep them off the moon.
    2
  703. They went back eight times.
    2
  704. "only land lines" Have you heard of radio?
    2
  705.  @JosephDukate-v3o  I agree with previous replies. If you cannot be bothered to include a single emoji or even one exclamation mark, then i can't be bothered to believe you.
    2
  706. What are some of the lies he pointed out to you?
    2
  707. "a place they had never been before" They'd put a number of unmanned landers on the moon in the years leading up to Apollo 11.
    2
  708. NASA
    2
  709. ​ @franknorthcuttmusic Actually the current head of NASA is a buffoon and did just that in a hearing.
    2
  710.  @TeriNkc  "The FAF footage of it traveling through space and landing....all of it. The great achievement going to the moon footage, they just filmed over it " What do you mean "it"? Don't you understand that there were nine missions to the moon and there are hundreds of hours of archival video that you can watch for free right now?
    2
  711. ​ @stusue9733 "attempt at humor" Attempt!? That is a home run!
    2
  712. Why?
    2
  713. They?
    2
  714. this is your wishful dream... but why do you want it?
    2
  715. You probably could fire a piece of foil a good distance using a straw.
    2
  716. I think you mean dissent.
    2
  717. Because the rocks China has are not identical in every way to the rocks the US have.
    2
  718. I agree that all 400 thousands did not have to know what was going on. But there are silly claims made on all sides of this debate, so if you are looking for helplessness, you will find it everywhere. So tell us how many people you think would be necessary to commit such a crime?
    2
  719. ​ @stusue9733 The hugely varying distance from Earth (compared with our well heeled moon) for one.
    2
  720. Yes, a human brain is far more sophisticated than any machine, to date
    2
  721. Mission Control were seeing real time changes in pressure, temperature, attitude, and velocity, all responsive to their choices. If they open a valve, they better see a pressure and temperature drop. How do you suppose that could be faked?
    2
  722.  @81overon  It took you 25 years to understand that fuel prices affect shipping costs?
    2
  723. I agree with you. Apollo critics' arguments are almost entirely without merit and using disparaging language to characerize them only gives them something legitimate to gripe about.
    2
  724. And how do you know the radiation is lethal within the few hours it takes to cross?
    2
  725. i know a fellow what says 'ee took a plane to Liverpool. i never did believe the bloody cockwomble.
    2
  726. "Where are my replacements?" I'm a college instructor and i have some pretty darn sharp and motivated students every semester. Not a lot but a few.
    2
  727. ​ @rockethead7 in education can democracy unfortunately vote if can find the polls
    2
  728.  @stusue9733  Well, yes. And Canada.
    2
  729. ​ @PhuaTeckHoe The Soviets built Mir and the U.S. built Skylab. Each independently, decades ago.
    2
  730. If that were the one and only argument in favor of the landings, then you might have a point.
    2
  731. It seems possible that posts like these are false flags meant to humiliate the Apollo truthers' cause.
    2
  732.  @therealzilch  "I've also seen it on two consecutive orbits 90 minutes apart." That's pretty cool. There's a video here on YT of some amateur radio guy making radio contact with the ISS. They wish him "Welcome aboard!" I love the idea of seeing AND talking with something that's in orbit. In ORBIT. That takes this sort of incomprehensible concept of "orbit" and brings it into direct observation. I know you can see other satellites. But the fact that there's someone INSIDE that dot overhead. . .
    2
  733.  @Marinesniprx  "we went to the moon, get over it" You might be confused.
    2
  734. The landing sites have already been phosphate photographed and confirmed by India, China, Japan and Arizona State.
    2
  735.  @therealzilch  So it's just like being an English teacher!
    2
  736.  @therealzilch  That is SO COOL
    2
  737. ​ @rockethead7 I see this fellow as in a questioning stage; he does not strike me (yet) as a hardheaded knee-jerk cynic.
    2
  738. "unless the cameras were remote controlled from Earth" You're definitely showing a thought process. And where there's a thought process, there's hope.
    2
  739.  @stellarwind1946  "if our understanding of them is primitive now, what was our understanding of them 50 years ago?" I don't think "primitive" is an academically meaningful description. But like most things, as time goes on, people learn more. I'm not sure what you're driving at here.
    2
  740. "this" So often i cannot for the life of me figure out what "this" is.
    2
  741. "it doesn't make sense" You would be closer to the truth to acknowledge that you're unable to make sense of it.
    2
  742. "primitive technology" How much do you know about rocket technology of the 1960s? Enough to explain what about it was "primitive"?
    2
  743. Pressurized tanks. Also locked up in nitrogen compounds used as oxidizer.
    2
  744. These are some of the most vocal and well-known and published Apollo deniers. They are not random kooks.
    2
  745. Search hoo?
    2
  746. ​ @stusue9733 Rest assured--anyone with the word "truth" in his handle is a bonafide kook. (Except @flatearthtruth guy.)
    2
  747.  @franknorthcuttmusic  I'll do it, too.
    2
  748. Congrats on the rain.
    2
  749.  @therealzilch  May 29 it was published. The practice rover they were sitting on had pneumatic tires.
    2
  750. Anyone see the story in Yahoo News with a photo Charlie Duke et al. in a training photograph with their helmets off and the truthers jumped on it?
    2
  751. Ultimately, by parachute.
    2
  752.  @itsbasick  "show me any radio signal or phone signal that can travel almost 300000 miles" Go outside on a clear night and look at the moon. That's electromagnetic radiation reaching your eyes. Radio waves are also electromagnetic radiation. If light can travel 250k miles, why couldn't radio waves?
    2
  753.  @petepayette6690  "you gov lied to you" No one is arguing that governments don't lie.
    2
  754.  @petepayette6690  You're barking up the wrong tree with the booster comment. Ochamite is a MAGA and very well might reject the efficacy of the Covid vaccines.
    2
  755. I would guess that the voyages of Columbus required far fewer people and less organizational effort.
    2
  756.  @thegreatestmantoevrwlkthep9986  "dumb" Indeed.
    2
  757. ​ @rockethead7 "they WANT the moon landings to be fake" This is an important observation that has wider implications. In presidential politics, for instance, the challenging party WANTS the economic indicators to tank to show the incumbent in a bad light. It's easy to see what the political challengers get out of that deal, but it's not so clear what the deniers get out of a fake moon landing.
    2
  758. Thanks for the story!
    2
  759. ​ @stusue9733 "133 degrees" No, it's under -100.
    2
  760. ​ @marcusfanaro8555  "10k psi" No, the 10,000 pounds is a total across entire area. But pounds per square inch is the force in just one square inch which is much much less than 10,000. Just one square foot has 144 square inches. You've gotta keep dividing if you want to get psi from total force.
    2
  761. Do you think wireless communication began with the mass production of the mobile phone in the 90s?
    2
  762. It was an extraordinary accomplishment and i don't blame you.
    1
  763. That AI is fake.
    1
  764. "The amount of fuel to get to the moon the “first” time tells you right away this is fake." What was the total amount of fuel at liftoff?
    1
  765.  @AM-rd9pu  I didn't even realize the Koreans had a space program until recently.
    1
  766.  @rockethead7  The Koreans?
    1
  767. ​​ @Duckie-b5q The landing sites have been photographed by four countries in the past 20 years.
    1
  768. I certainly agree. Dr Stranglove is the single greatest film ever made, in my opinion. Beats Citizen Kane, hands down.
    1
  769. 12:40 "capsule cannot land on Earth" If you saw a video of an airplane crashing, then you must conclude that airplanes cannot land.
    1
  770. that's quite an accusation of murder. do you stand by that with evidence or just a feeling?
    1
  771.  @occhamite  It doesn't make sense to hate 350 million people of the most culturally diverse nation on the planet. We don't agree on anything. We have no center to hate.
    1
  772. dolphin is fish
    1
  773. tree visor snack
    1
  774. ​ @DervishBlue-q4e "Did his mom spank you?" Yes, for starters.
    1
  775.  @therealzilch  Ideally, in any ongoing debate that's broken into camps, there would be no loyalty within a camp. As i see it. I should be just as willing to call out b.s. when i hear it from someone from my side as when i hear it from the other side. Right? This is the same reason i refuse to align myself with a political party--once i decide I'm a Democrat and start going to their meetings and eating their fingerfood, then I'm not entirely free to tell them what i really think.
    1
  776.  @stusue9733  Ah, i see
    1
  777. ​ @occhamite "a plausible video results" It doesn't. As you indicate for the astros, slowing the video down slows motion in both the x and y direction. But microgravity only reduces apparent acceleration in the y direction. So the dust on Earth traces a differently shaped path when showed down than dust on the moon--a gentler angle. See what i mean? Or am i wrong? Always a possibility.
    1
  778. "What about radiation" What about it? Do we have any reason to think the dose they got in less than a week would be harmful to human health? The folks on the ISS seem to be doing okay. And they were within the Van Allen Belts for only a few hours. Do you have reason to believe that's too long?
    1
  779.  @1Jason  Sitting on the fence does put one's balls in a jam.
    1
  780. Is having "no brain" like having "no tea"? (C'mon, c'mon, anyone get the reference?)
    1
  781. @occhamite  Clinton had us a budget surplus, folks forget.
    1
  782. ​ @rockethead7  I watch Wheel of Fortune 3 or 4 nights a week. Even with Ryan Seacrest now the host. Vanna must be nearly 70 but is still hot.
    1
  783.  @lorae7  " if they could figure out how to get through the Van Allen Belt without being burnt up maybe we could actually get to the moon." You misunderstood. The problem with the VABs is that modern electronics are quite tiny and therefore fragile and susceptiable to damage by radiation. In 1969, the electronics were much bigger and chunkier. As far as it being unimportant, in a way it's true. The details don't matter. But in another way, this is an example of how easily mislead people are, especially when the Devil is in the details. And I include myself as someone who can be mislead, if I'm not careful--especially when someone is telling me what I want to hear.
    1
  784.  @lorae7  You're claiming that NASA destroyed the all the modules and that they say that on their websites. As if it were some kind of cover up. But they do not say that. In fact, they tell you which museum you can go to to see one (Grumman built 13 and they only used 12. So you can go see the 13th command module.)
    1
  785.  @lorae7  I agree that scientists have been elevated to a godlike position in the past 150 years that they don't deserve. The social sciences are particularly nefarious, and they shouldn't have the last say. But you're barking up the wrong tree with Apollo. There's multiple kinds of hard evidence from multiple countries. Just blindly rejecting everything scientists and governments say is easy to do. And you're still letting them dominate what you think, just in reverse. What's not easy is withholding judgement when you don't know, which i did on this Apollo business. A self-honest evaluation is something few people are capable of. It takes a deliberate effort.
    1
  786.  @thewildcellist  Right, it is exciting to see that one splash of color against all the grey and black and realize that it's home. You know, the scoffers sometimes complain that there's no hi-res live feed of Earth from the moon. And i happen to agree with them. That's just the sort of thing that could drum up public interest in space exploration.
    1
  787. i wish
    1
  788.  @occhamite  They need to put up or shut up--produce a fake using the best tech 1969 had to offer and let it stand up to scrutiny. It can't be done. Even using 2024 tech i doubt it can be done.
    1
  789. "polygraph them all" Including Bart Sibrel, I presume.
    1
  790. Your friend must have some killer top level clearance.
    1
  791. Does the fact that none of the world's engineers or scientists agree with you cause you any doubts?
    1
  792.  @therealzilch  On the other hand, you are capable of working. Some folks aren't physically able. So you've got that.
    1
  793. You can test your theory that stars should be visible, rght now. Do an image search for photos of the full moon. Try to find ones that aren't too zoomed in, so you can see lots of sky around it. Count the stars you see in these photos. You won't find many, if any all. Ask yourself why not. Then realize that for the Apollo astronauts on the list surface, the sun in the sky was a whole lot brighter than the full moon in our sky.
    1
  794. Around 1970-something.
    1
  795. What makes you think the video is fake?
    1
  796.  @WilliamMann-co8un  And look how far they advanced just from A11 to A17. To think where they'd be now if they'd maintained even half, even a quarter, of the rate of progress they had. US Americans would again have a physical frontier to beckon us forth. (And this time there would be no tragic destruction of another people.)
    1
  797. Thank you for this thoughtful and knowledgeable contribution.
    1
  798. 70%
    1
  799. Your cranium is filled with space.
    1
  800.  @occhamite  If he doesn't shape up he'll end up a three-legged street dog in Bangladesh next time around.
    1
  801.  @occhamite  Maybe it was a regressive reincarnation.
    1
  802. they returned eight times
    1
  803.  @pisablavatsky-cb3dd  But why do you think the computers were incapable? Did you know that it's possible to do math without a computer at all?
    1
  804.  @pisablavatsky-cb3dd  What technology do you think was so lacking in the 1960s that it would prevent them from making a moonshot?
    1
  805. At least you know how to spell "you're." That's pretty good for a lunar denier.
    1
  806. @stusue9733  Well, if you're, say, a pharmacist in America, it's not only a good idea, but you could kill someone if you didn't.
    1
  807. There are scads of Apollo documents and you can read them for yourself..
    1
  808. @therealzilch  I missed that one, but I think 4/10 is well-earned in this case. Cites esoteric sources, turns the 1/6 g dogma on its head. That takes ingenuity and guts. I could go as high as 4.5/10.
    1
  809. "Yes brother everything is written in the Bible, KJV." I'm partial to the Gnostic scriptures.
    1
  810. Hell, i don't need a satellite to look at the moon.
    1
  811.  @therealzilch  lol
    1
  812.  @rockethead7  "see?" not bloody likely
    1
  813.  @stellarwind1946  During the Cold War, the Space Race was one front in the nuclear arms race. That is quite well established. The purpose of Artemis i have not studied, though competion with a rising China in the past 20 or 30 years is surely part of it. I know of no practical profitable reason to men rather than machines except for geopolitical reasons.
    1
  814. You don't even need a telescope if you're close enough to the debris.
    1
  815. We discovered how the Earth-moon system was formed 4.5 billion years ago.
    1
  816.  @clifffowler2581  Well, if you have any evidence that you're enthusiastic about, I'd be interested to hear it.
    1
  817.  @rockethead7  Good. Something we can agree on.
    1
  818. ​ @mr.random3964 "running" I've never seen any running on the moon. Running is not allowed, like at the pool.
    1
  819. It's not that hard. I've landed on many ahollograms in my day.
    1
  820.  @aok4418  "A July 1970 poll found 30% of Americans declaring Apollo 11 to be a fake." Where did you get this information? You must have found it in an article published on the internet. What is the title of that article (if you post a link, YT might not post it)?
    1
  821. ignore the troll
    1
  822.  @stevehartman1730  So what information are the believers lacking?
    1
  823. And none of the world's aerospace engineers, in five decades, have published a singlet paper to that effect? Pretty far fetched.
    1
  824. ​ @isaidthat4505 You're just making stuff up. One meter thick? While you're at it, why not make it 3 meters?
    1
  825. You're about 60% right.
    1
  826. what
    1
  827. As it does. There were a few other people involved, though.
    1
  828. Are you going to let that Rocketman kick you around like that? Stand up for yourself!
    1
  829. Sure. Why else bother setting them up?
    1
  830.  @therealzilch  Oh dear! Well, now i am blushing...
    1
  831.  @therealzilch  It looks like you fooled them. Problem is you fooled me, too. Maybe someone who's been around the block a few more times than i have would understand.
    1
  832.  @ColinVanderheide  But the Apollo program was in the works long before there were any protests.
    1
  833.  @ColinVanderheide  "the protest movement" But there was no protest movement in progress or even foreseeable at the time of the "We Choose To Go To The Moon" speech, 1962.
    1
  834. ​ @occhamite And who lives out in the open, free and wild? No one who would ever be elevated by our electoral system.
    1
  835. "I don't care what anyone says" Okay, nice talking to ya.
    1
  836. what technology do you think is lacking that makes a crewed landing impossible?
    1
  837. Agreed on all points. And in the same vein, is add that finding out one is wrong, far from something to be defended against, should be considered a victory. It's like, "In glad i don't believe THAT b.s. anymore."
    1
  838. NASA lost all the documents and papers and pencils they had and then they lost the moon itself and they destroyed the technology.
    1
  839.  @critthought2866  It feels surreal to me to think that they would travel all that way, Earth an ever-shrinking disk, and when they land, there's already something there!
    1
  840.  @rockethead7  "even brought back parts of that lander, which are now in the Smithsonian museum." Neat! Quite a clever trick for landing #2.
    1
  841. Rare bird
    1
  842. So let's hear it.
    1
  843.  @theeraphatsunthornwit6266  I don't know enough about lighting to know if that's feasible or not
    1
  844.  @theeraphatsunthornwit6266  Wouldn't 101 spotlights close together create uneven lighting with a bright spot?
    1
  845. Yeah but the aliens are human. Same genus (homo). A long time ago some humans migrate to the moon and the others decided to go to Earth. Where they came from is a good question. (I say "they" because i do not include myself among them.)
    1
  846. Makes sense.
    1
  847. She was not kidding. ​ @chuggachuggawoowoo 
    1
  848.  @talzotar7580  sight personal nights wedding break just with new person others Kenneth?
    1
  849.  @talzotar7580  Do you have some reason to believe the VABs are intense enough to hurt s human in a couple hours ' time? Did you read that somewhere or make it up yourself?
    1
  850. You have no response to the list of third-party evidence offered by @rockethead7. Why not?
    1
  851. If you're right that the USA and Russia are friends, then we ought to stop supplying the Ukrainians with weapons and equipment.
    1
  852. you got so drunk on September 10th that you didn't wake up until the 12th.
    1
  853.  @stusue9733  How can you talk about analogue transmission in terms of bits?
    1
  854. They went nine times.
    1
  855. They're still cross they lost the War of Separation.
    1
  856.  @therealzilch  Well, we can thank Florida for elevating him to the rank of Senator.
    1
  857. Well, NASA's got a moron at the helm right now. Bill Nelson is on the record saying that the far side of the moon is "always in dark." He said that last week.
    1
  858. Yeah, you can do better than 100. Have some gumption, man!
    1
  859. "There are so many uneducated people than ever before!" My impression is that humanity's level of what I'd term as "Confident Ignorance" has stayed more or less constant since the 15th century, after Gutenberg invented his press. Just an impression.
    1
  860. ​ @occhamite Lol!
    1
  861. If you're into conspiracy theories, then check the video of the Apple 2 nuclear test, conducted under Operation Cue. You know the video--the houses being obliterated by shockwaves. Folks in the comments have the same fascination with the cameras, the film should have been destroyed, looks like a scale model, lots of DIY physics.
    1
  862. ​ @stusue9733 True!
    1
  863.  @therealzilch  Yeah, that will probably be me at age 90... "Well, you look like a nice young man. What's your name?" "How dare you speak to your AI Overlord from your biological form! Exterminate! Exterminate!"
    1
  864.  @therealzilch  Probably.
    1
  865.  @rockethead7  I like this analogy.
    1
  866.  @therealzilch  Yes, even when all other punctuation is shunned, extraneous apostrophe's can make an appearance.
    1
  867.  @stusue9733  Upon closer inspection, i think you're right.
    1
  868.  @stusue9733  Right, no need for anything more than that.
    1
  869.  @stusue9733  "sees a Thermos" I think i might be wrong about my "millimeter of vacuum" since the infared radiation from the wall of one side of the gap would warm the wall of the other side of the gap. It might work better if there were a third wall down the center made of reflective material to prevent the radiation from jumping the gap.
    1
  870. ​ @allencharlei8351 "feet of insulation not millimeters" Heat transfer happens differently when there's no air. No air means no air temperature. A millimeter of vacuum is a better insulator than a yard thick spun glass blanket. There's no question about this. It's not up for debate.
    1
  871. Off topic, but... supposedly there are sunspots visible right now but i can't see them via my eclipse glasses. Anyone been able to see them?
    1
  872. In a way I agree with you. But I don't agree that the explanation is simple. I'm beginning to think that the cultural disease we are now suffering is what you get when a people lacks a higher purpose, a collective purpose, and a shared sense of meaning. For example, we have drained our once-potent cultural symbols of meaning through commercialization, massive overexposure and trivialization. Look at Christmas for an obvious example. Look at what is done with the American flag--it's made into tank tops and underwear and sold cheap. Has Jesus been used to sell wine, yet? Probably. We have destroyed everything sacred and revered. This is hardly an orginal observation of mine, but I'm just beginning to understand it. And, no, I am not a religious person.
    1
  873.  @us3rG  I mean of you have a camera with a telephoto lens, you can zoom in on the moon and it will take up a large portion of the frame. Then zoom out and it takes up a smaller portion of the frame. Then switch to a wide angle lens and now the moon takes up an Even smaller portion of the frame. You could then line up these three photos and see that the actual size of something cannot be determined by looking at a photo. What if the photo was cropped? Then you have another variable.
    1
  874. ​ @us3rG You can display a photo of Earth taken from the moon and make it any size you want it to be using the zoom function of your computer. Without reference points, there's no telling from a photo what the actual angular size was when the photo was taken.
    1
  875. Why colonize the moon if it does nothing for the betterment of mankind?
    1
  876. Clothes on a line signifies what to you?
    1
  877.  @TraciOrnelas  "the Word of God is truth. Nothing else." I do sincerely admire this kind of anchored world view. Though the literalism is just too absurd. Maybe our Deist Founders, back in the late 18th century had it right.
    1
  878. @therealzilch  Yes, it is good to love the box itself. It's a good place to come back to in the evening and prop up one's feet.
    1
  879. "the Earth is a sphere and it is flat" Sounds like some cool extradimensional action.
    1
  880.  @fuckyougeorgebush  There are millions upon millions of police and millitary. There is nothing you can say about them that characterizes all those individuals.
    1
  881. From the astronauts' point of view, during landing the moon was coming closer and they were sitting still.
    1
  882. "If somebody can show me something we learnt, that could not have been learnt here on earth,I would be more likely to believe this happened." Well, they did a lot of scientific experiements. A lot of geological studies. And as a result we now have a clue, for example, how the planet we live on was formed 4.5 billion years ago (see: Giant Impact Hypothesis).
    1
  883. In.YOUR.dreams
    1
  884. I looked for the flags the other night and couldn't seev any of them.
    1
  885. You can't be serious. There is no way anyone is so far gone that they would write what you just wrote in seriousness..
    1
  886.  @rockethead7  Yeah, probably so.
    1
  887.  @rockethead7  It's a good example of the kind of conclusion jumping that the deniers build their beliefs from.
    1
  888. Can't I love the deserts and mountains and despise the government at the same time?
    1
  889.  @therealzilch  I do believe that 1 + 1 can equal 5. This is togethersetting, from what i can gather from the Net.
    1
  890.  @therealzilch  Does "Madcap Laughs" mean anything to you?
    1
  891. Maybe call them "conspiracy enthusiasts"? The other thing about the gloves is that their pressuresuits were filled with pure oxygen, so they didn't need to be pressurized up to a full 15 psi. They got all the oxygen they needed at 4 or 5 psi. (I could be wrong about the numbers, but I'm close.)
    1
  892. How fast was the capsule moving when the parachutes opened up?
    1
  893. Hwat?
    1
  894. ​ @Semprefi "technology had advanced in ways to make it impossible to fool anyone" Two things didn't make sense here. One, earlier you were implying that China and India have currently been fooling everyone and NASA is in on it. Two, seems to me that advanced capabilities in simulations and digital manipulation (e.g., CGI) would make it much more possible to perpetuate a convincing fraud (given that it was possible to do so in 1968, with no digitization at all).
    1
  895. Another good question: why don't conspiracy theorists know how to use periods?
    1
  896.  @rockethead7  okay, good to know
    1
  897.  @rockethead7  Japan, too. and the Russians have just in the last few days put something in lunar orbit. I'm not sure what it does, tho
    1
  898.  @Skipbo000  Right. Then we agree. It's not that they can't, not that it's impossible. It's that it's not been worth trying. Hence the lack of funding. It is rare to come to agreement in a forum like this and i appreciate your openness.
    1
  899. ​ @realestreaIist So what makes you think Apollo didn't happen?
    1
  900.  @marksprague1280  do you think the flatheads have proliferated since the rise of the internet or were they here all along and we were just blissfully unaware of them?
    1
  901. There are very few real skeptics, either on the no-Apollo or yes-Apollo side. Are YOU a real skeptic?
    1
  902. There were six landings and two different people each time.
    1
  903. @therealzilch  And then was it not the X-15 rocket plane to first carry a human across the Karman Line?
    1
  904.  @therealzilch  Yeah i know what you mean.
    1
  905.  @therealzilch  "descendant" Really!? Cool!
    1
  906.  @Sammackk7  Kids, it's not cool to drop auxillary verbs.
    1
  907.  @michaelstillman1171  Oh yeah... Hallowe'en in Salem!
    1
  908.  @frankmccracken1160  "we know how trustworthy they are" How trustworthy do you think NASA is?
    1
  909.  @frankmccracken1160  "was a video on You Tube" I've seen a lot of videos about Apollo 1, but that rumor is a new one to me. I'm skeptical.
    1
  910. Overheard by whom? Where did you get that information?
    1
  911. you got a link to any source for what you're saying here?
    1
  912. "British misleading the American people" And who has been misleading you?
    1
  913. Agreed
    1
  914. " So 400,000 people were part of a massive cover up" I don't think EVERYONE would have to be in on it, hypothetically.
    1
  915.  @RoarOfWolverine  Sound travels well through water, which is why whales can communicate over 5 to 10 miles re Wikipedia. Swimming under water I've heard people knock two rocks together and it makes a loud sharp crack. And we know that sounds travels through bone since that's how bone conduction earbuds work. And I'm not convinced that a quarter inch of rubber is going to dampen the vibration from the handle of a tool to the hand as much as you think. In that case we are not talking about the rubber dampening pressure waves through air as in a sound studio. Instead we're talking about direct soild-to-solid contact. Yes there would be some absorption, maybe a lot, but you're still going to feel the vibration penetrate to your hand. I haven't seen/heard a video of the pounding episode in a while, so i can't judge whether i think they're is too much sound transferred. I could imagine there being so much clear ringing that it was implausible the video was taken in a vacuum. If you have the title of the video handy i would be interested. Regarding the strap throwing incident--i haven't seen it and, again, would be interested if you happen to know the title of the video. Since i haven't seen it, I can only comment that it's possible that there was a hot mic inside the LM. If not, then i would say you have an airtight (ha!) case on that one. Personally, i find the Apollo missions fascinating and inspiring and i live learning about them. But i certainly don't want to be taken in by a lie. And if the program was a sham, i certainly would want to know it and i could then probably find plenty of interest in uncovering the sham. There's plenty of other space endeavors to admire, like the Cassini mission. Though of course, if Apollo were a sham, I'd have to reevaluate everything that NASA had claimed they have done. As of right now, i feel confident Apollo happened as the books say. But if your sound theory pans out, I'm open to changing my mind. I'm always open to changing my mind. About anything. Why shouldn't i be? Why shouldn't YOU be?
    1
  916. ​ @RoarOfWolverine i didn't read every word but i didn't notice the words bone or water, which is what would propagate the sound of a hammer blow.
    1
  917. What makes you think they're fake?
    1
  918. And another thing.... this idea that people are somehow smarter or more discerning "in 2024" than in the mid century is completely baseless.
    1
  919. ​ @stusue9733 "it's not like they designed it..." Exactly. We inherit this stuff and if we're to rise above the likes of trust fund babies, we have to manage at least a rudimentary understanding about how our gifts work.
    1
  920.  @pelocitdarney5718  "AM and Tim are shills." And how are you so sure about this?
    1
  921. @occhamite  Yeah, i heard about that
    1
  922. the moonhoax people generally write like junior high dropouts
    1
  923. I'm not aware of any cooperation between the U.S. and China in space, let alone reliance. China has it's own space station.
    1
  924. Who can be trusted?
    1
  925. I heard that Jesus was a woman.
    1
  926. ​ @rockethead7 Interesting. You are a fountain of knowledge Prof Rockethead.
    1
  927.  @therealzilch  Yeah, recoil is one illustration. Seems like it should be convincing. Or how about walking along a balance beam, like a railroad track, you start to fall one way and you swing your arms all around to maintain balance--it doesn't even feel like the AIR is holding you up. You can FEEL the conservation of momentum happening. But, yeah, it's not entirely intuitive. A gyroscope, for instance, is a little weird.
    1
  928.  @therealzilch  The notion that rockets need to "push off of air" to accelerate is one of my favorites.
    1
  929.  @occhamite  I think it's a pretty good list.
    1
  930. Admission from Buzz Cryptic clues in The Shining, on Von Braun's headstone, and in a speech by Armstrong. Apollo 11 crew unanimated during press conference Apollo 11 crew contradict each other during press conference
    1
  931.  @stusue9733  "drive"!
    1
  932.  @rockethead7  Interestingly, the robot put "Russians would expose" on this list. When i asked it why, it apologized.
    1
  933. A list cooked up by my pet robot: Van Allen Belts are impassable No stars visible in photographs The American flag waving in the wind Different shadow angles in photographs No blast crater under the lunar module Film and photos would have melted from the heat of the lunar surface Footprints shouldn't exist on the moon’s surface The Lunar Module looks too fragile The astronauts couldn’t have survived the extreme temperature changes Reflected light in astronaut helmets No exhaust flame from the Lunar Module’s ascent The “C” rock The Soviets would have exposed a fake landing The astronauts couldn’t communicate through the Van Allen Belts The lunar soil and rocks could have been faked How could the astronauts operate cameras with bulky gloves? Moon rocks found on Earth prove the missions were faked There was no way to shield the astronauts from solar flares The video footage is slowed down Earth footage How did the Lunar Module transmit live video from the moon?
    1
  934. ​ @II-hx9tw  "interviews with 3 astronauts" You have a shallow understanding of the topic and for that reason your conclusions aren't worth much.
    1
  935.  @marksprague1280  well, like I said, there is no evidence of fraud, that i know of
    1
  936. Suppose you were in a spacesuit and hanging in the vastness of space, motionless, just 20 meters from your spaceship. There is no one around to help you. You have nothing else except a basketball. You will die if you don't get back to your spaceship. My question for you is: what do you do next? How can you return to your spaceship.
    1
  937. @occhamite used his brain cells in tandem to ask, "MSM was around in the 60s?" A: Of course there was main stream media in the sixties. Have you heard of Walter Kronkite?
    1
  938. Apollo 18
    1
  939. Long enough to get out the leaf blower and get down to some serious business.
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  940. What do you care about?
    1
  941.  @michaelstillman1171  yeah exactly
    1
  942. I won't tell you which side i am on. The common tendency I see among the credulous side (what i think is the naive side) is a penchant for finding analogies from their own lives and extending them way way too far.
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  943. The other common characteristic of the "believers" is stunted literacy.
    1
  944. Cool.
    1
  945. Here's the question I asked my pet AI: "As what rate in liters did the sublimators in the Apollo astronauts' suits emit water into space?" And here's the text it returned: "On average, the sublimator in an Apollo astronaut's suit used water at a rate of about 0.06 to 0.1 kilograms (or 60 to 100 grams) per hour. Converting this to liters, since the density of water is approximately 1 kilogram per liter, the sublimator emitted water vapor at a rate of about 0.06 to 0.1 liters per hour." I think we can conclude that asking an AI is not a reliable way to get good information on the Apollo missions. It might help one to find good information, but it should not be the beginning and end of the search.
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  946. "its not the maximum its the average" I'm not certain what "it" refers to, but if "it" refers to this statement: "each Apollo astronaut’s suit could evaporate up to 1.5 liters of water per hour" then "it's" a maximum, because that's what "up to" means. But if "it" is the LMs sublimator, then according to your AI, "it could have evaporated approximately 10-15 liters of water per hour" but only "if we assume the sublimator operated continuously for the entire 75 hours the LM was on the lunar surface." Is there a reason to assume 75 hours of continuous operation? What was the ACTUAL time of operation? Without answers to these questions, those numbers are tentative. But. . . the fundamental problem with your numbers is that we have no idea if they are accurate. Those are not published data. Those are numbers generated by an AI and AI are notoriously unreliable and prone to hallucinations. In fact, I asked the very popular AI that came out last November the following question and got an answer different by a full order of magnitude: "Consider the lunar module of the Apollo missions. When it was on the surface of the moon, how much water did the sublimator use?" The answer is gave me was: "During the lunar surface operations, the sublimator's water consumption varied depending on several factors, including the duration of the extravehicular activities (EVAs), the heat load, and the specific mission. On average, the lunar module consumed about 0.1 to 0.2 pounds of water per hour through the sublimator. Given that the astronauts spent several hours on the lunar surface during each EVA, the total water consumption for the sublimator was typically in the range of a few pounds of water for each lunar surface period. For instance, during the Apollo 11 mission, the total water used by the sublimator was around 6.5 pounds over the course of the entire mission." Let me emphasize that: ". . . during the Apollo 11 mission, the total water used by the sublimator was around 6.5 pounds over the course of the entire mission."
    1
  947. "rebut the statement" As i pointed out seven days ago, the water usage rate you give, even if it is correct, is a maximum. But you give no reason to believe that water was used at that maximum rate the entire time. I can run a mile in 6 minutes. That doesn't mean i ran 240 miles yesterday.
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  948.  @rockethead7  And random superscript 2 that referred to nothing. Doubtlessly a copypaste job.
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  949. "could evaporate up to 1.5 l of water" Sounds like a maximum. It's there any reason to believe it was operating at its maximum capacity the entire time? Unless i misread you, you are assuming just that
    1
  950. Hwat?
    1
  951. "first try" Think again, Sherlock.
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  952. @marksprague1280  Oh. That does take him off the short list.
    1
  953.  @therealzilch  Well, that was before the Great American Purge. There's going to be a new Director of Central Intelligence appointed soon. I hear that Don is going to pardon Charles Manson so he can take the job.
    1
  954. And the conspiracy theories presented to you are not true. And you are among the billions.
    1
  955. There is no debate on that point. It was absolutely possible and was being done by both the Soviets and the USAmericans. In fact there was a push during the Second World War to use they moon as a reflector to improve Earthbound communications. But that was not accomplished until shortly after the war ended. Source: Wikipedia "Earth-Moon-Earth Communications".
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  956. @jdf3434  That conference happened two weeks after splashdown. And if you watch the whole conference, instead of just cherry picked clips from channels with an agenda, you'll see them laughing, smiling, and joking with the press. And if you watch them immediately upon return, on the aircraft carrier that picked them up out of the ocean, you'll see they were overjoyed.
    1
  957. Why would he go into hiding? Actually he did suffer some depression and alcoholism for a while in the 70s.
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  958. Chances are you had your mind made up before you watched this docu. "Lost all the footage"? Apparently not, given that there is "footage" right here on this video.
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  959. I WISH!
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  960. Get yourself a pair of good quality eclipse glasses and you can see the disk of the sun without any glare. It's quite cool. And you can observe the precise diameter of the disk throughout the day.
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  961. "would be hard to fake something like" It would have been impossible to fool the Soviets, let alone the entire world's experts for 60 years.
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  962. Yes, what could be more down to Earth than a leafblower?
    1
  963. Yeah. Seems that way to me, too.
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  964.  @biblethumper1624  well, trusting friends is, in general, a good thing but, sure it might lead a person astray sometimes
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  965.  @wimkuijpers1342  Yeah, I'm sure he did. And I'm poking him for it. Childish of me, i know.
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  966. "WALLAH" What language is that?
    1
  967. No. They only faked #12, #16 and #17.
    1
  968. ​ @DanceChallenge_ShowUsYoSkills  Maybe distance is not the only factor. Consider the possibility that things aren't that simple.
    1
  969. France is not doing too well, either, judging by the current national political climate.
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  970. Nifty handle you got there.
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  971.  @andrewvautour1795  " the idea that America is the best country in the world is somewhat narrow minded and a view from people that have probably never traveled beyond their small corner" Well, yeah. "Best country" is pretty vague. Best for whom? Best for what? The best thing about this country is that we still have some untrammeled wilderness and lots of public land, second maybe to Russia or Canada. We'll see how much longer that lasts.
    1
  972.  @FreeDocumentaryHistory  Oh, okay. I thought the implication was that the federal government was somehow working behind the scenes.
    1
  973.  @FreeDocumentaryHistory  Controlled by whom, in what way, and how do you know?
    1
  974. X314 rodney reply. X315 check reply. 19
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  975.  @michaelnelson7305  "It's fine when your inside, try walking on the wing at 60,000 mph...." Are you aware that there's no air in space?
    1
  976.  @franknorthcuttmusic  Tim Vine. . . hmm, looks like I have to a new comedian to check out. . .
    1
  977. ​ @michaelstillman1171  Steven Wright and Mitch Hedberg are pretty funny.
    1
  978. ​ @therealzilch "windshield wipers that start automatically?" Yeah and also speed up and slow down depending on how hard it is raining.
    1
  979. That depends. There were 12 manned Apollo missions. Which one do you think was possibly fake?
    1
  980.  @Spector06111  "this has got to be the most dumbest comment" I guess you're new here.
    1
  981. Most of the people who deny the landings happened are not skeptical of what conspiracy theory sites have to say. They eat that stuff up. So calling them skeptics doesn't work.
    1
  982. No. But... why do you think so?
    1
  983. Where did you get that idea? You're saying the Chinese are planing to go to the exact landing site in the Sea of Tranquility? Why?
    1
  984.  @michaelstillman1171  I really like the video of taken from Station 2 in Apollo 17. You can find it with those key words and add "earth view."
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  985. Okay.
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  986. All the money in the world would not have been enough to contrive a fraud that would fool 10,000 engineers and physicists.
    1
  987.  @therealzilch  That's the guy. He is hilarious snd ocassionally right about something.
    1
  988.  @therealzilch  "news programs did trans and international conversations without noticeable delay" What's most interesting to me in this conversation is the thinking that leads to the assumption that newer must equal faster. We can pay our electric bills electronically, no letter carrier required, which is much faster, so that means that every element of contemporary communications must also be faster. I suppose the thinking, such as it is, goes something like that. I've been into a stand up comedian from the 60s/70s named Marshall McLuhan who had a lot to say about how new media supplants the old. Ever hear of the guy?
    1
  989. Probably so. Digital transmissions require all sort of coding and decoding and processing. Analog is faster than lightning.
    1
  990. "there is no technology to make it a reality." What new technology is needed to make it a reality?
    1
  991. You've got to be joking. Cash registers?
    1
  992.  @marksprague1280  It would be funny if some husband was like, "I will do ANYTHING to protect my wife and children! Almost all the time!"
    1
  993. I'm protecting my family 10 months a year, 4 hours a day. No matter what.
    1
  994. You've heard of The Cold War. Good job, kid.
    1
  995.  @therealzilch  To be honest with you, neither have i. But i did get a good look at one the other day and, let me tell you, it swam like a duck.
    1
  996. ​ @1USAUSA Grebes do all those things but they're not ducks.
    1
  997.  @rockethead7  It's interesting. Thanks.
    1
  998.  @stusue9733  I see. I know nothing about scuba diving.
    1
  999.  @stusue9733  Well, I'm looking for differences between the PLSS oxygen tanks and scuba tanks, since they quotation of how they are different comes up.
    1
  1000. ​ @rockethead7  Did they use LOX in the PLSS?
    1
  1001.  @therealzilch  "assuming that English is the native language." Yes, and that's an important caveat. I stand in awe of multilingual folks (like my wife!). I believe I remember you saying at some point that English is not your first language. If that's the case, then you're writing at a near-native proficiency. (I'm an ESL instructor by trade, so I know these things.)
    1
  1002. I think the flat Earth people are dumber. Just my opinion.
    1
  1003.  @michaelstillman1171  I consider myself on stage when i teach. I'm intentionally animated. It's a kind of improv within a loose plan. I've got jokes. I'm in competition with the electronic entertainment devices they all have in their pockets. I measure my success by the number of eyeballs pointed at me and the degree of verbal participation i can rustle up. It's a state school, a "football school," and the student population lacks intellectual curiosity. They're generally more interested in golf and NCAA football than talking about rhetoric. I have no fewer than two students majoring in "turfgrass science"--they want to spend their careers beautifying golf courses. Tough crowd. But i do always have a handful of bright and curious and opinionated youngsters, too.
    1
  1004.  @michaelstillman1171  "5-piece mostly classic rock" That's the coolest. It's fun to perform on stage.
    1
  1005.  @michaelstillman1171  Yeah, i know the scene. I adjuncted for five years for peanuts. Then felt lucky to get hired full time as Lecturer this year. I'm not up for promotion to Assistant Teaching Professor for five years. Five years! What kind of band?
    1
  1006.  @michaelstillman1171  Yeah, sure, i can recommend all sorts of stuff. And, yeah, a bio lab is a different story. My wife teaches micro labs. It's great when they can really get their hands on something. Do you still teach?
    1
  1007. ​ @michaelstillman1171 Everyone has stuck with it. They seem to enjoy the lectures. I get quite animated and tell jokes (there's a performance element.) But i can't get them to talk, to answer questions aloud during class. I think they're afraid to be "wrong". I've started handing out a playing card to everyone and when my question is met with silence i go, "Okay, someone with a heart want to take a crack at it?" It helps but not much. I want voluntary participation. But they've been trained for 12 years to fear making mistakes. So I'm still working on solving this problem. One thought i have is to get THEM to ask ME questions... then I can be wrong for a change! And if the teacher can be wrong, so can they.
    1
  1008.  @therealzilch  So i suppose i don't have much grace for folks who are sloppy with what they say and don't examine what they believe and especially none for folks who thoughtlessly mouth other people's b.s. At least, at LEAST one should make up his own b.s.
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  1009.  @therealzilch  I think it's emotional abuse, to lay that on a child. I remember singing Amazing Grace as a schoolchild, "...saved a wretch like me..." What kind of an adult teaches a child to call himself a "wretch?"
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  1010. And he's coming back again again.
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  1011. You're saying they should have spent more time rehearsing the flag ceremony?
    1
  1012. there are hundreds of hours of video from the six moon landings, and plenty right here on You Tube.
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  1013. "well lit" That would be from the sun.
    1
  1014.  @charlesjones472  I don't know what i mean, either. Best not to try to understand.
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  1015. Pith, platitudes, and cynicism are piss poor substitutes for reason.
    1
  1016.  @michaelstillman1171  lol! Exactly!
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  1017. Yes, more or less that's what they did. It was in the boot/trunk.
    1
  1018. what is with the Americans' obsession with the apostrophe?
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  1019.  @matlock4659  - it is not necessary to pass over Antarctica to encircle the globe. you could fly from New York to Hong Kong to Mumbai to Dubai to New York (which I have done.) if you were carrying a compass and knew your ground speed as you flew (which is known by passengers), then you could map your path.
    1
  1020. you could test your flat Earth theory with a compass and a few international plane tickets.
    1
  1021. ​ @johnnybates7580  Let's talk about the Second World War and the lies of Imperial Japan. Or would you rather talky about the lies of Kim Jong Un? Your choice.
    1
  1022. Every object "has" gravity, afaik
    1
  1023.  @rockethead7  True
    1
  1024. There are five US American flags on the moon.
    1
  1025.  @nunyabiz1780  So what's the most unbelievable aspect to you?
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  1026.  @rockethead7  "rapid pressure changes" Right, like when you want to open the hatch for an EVA. Reentry. That sort of thing.
    1
  1027. ​ @therealzilch You should try out for Jeopardy!, the game show. For real.
    1
  1028. ​ @rockethead7 Interesting.
    1
  1029.  @lechiffre2617  A perfectly good question. Sorry if i signed preachy.
    1
  1030. ​ @lechiffre2617 "14 psi" I don't think they went that high with the pure ox. And what says the suits AREN'T inflated? They may be wearing an oversuit that's not pressurized.
    1
  1031. Do an image search for "full moon" and see how many stats show up in those photos. Then realize that the sun in the lunar sky was a while lot brighter than that.
    1
  1032. Are you sure Mark Twain wrote that?
    1
  1033.  @Solomongrundy68  "they never knew" Well someone had to crank out masses of mission operations data 24/7 for days at a time for each of nine missions to the moon. So yes "they" had to know.
    1
  1034.  @s.jackson6885  Even if 99% of them took the secret to their graves, someone would have come forward over the past 60 years.
    1
  1035.  @therealzilch  I don't know how they could have shaped and moved all those rocks so it must be fake.
    1
  1036.  @therealzilch  Going to have to look that one up... I'm guessing it's a pyramid....
    1
  1037. "it is a matter of stupidity" Indeed.
    1
  1038.  @therealzilch  Yeah. Or, how would you like to be living in Bangaldesh?
    1
  1039.  @therealzilch  "Parts of Austria are still flooded," The Sound of Music has Americans thinking that there is no low ground in Austria.
    1
  1040.  @therealzilch  "How bright will it be? I'm still bummed out by Halley's disappointing apparition in '86." It's up in the air. I don't know if there's still a chance of it breaking up from the heat of the sun, but if it does, it might not be visible at all. But if it keeps it together, I think I read that it could be as bright as the brightest stars, up there with Sirius, but not as bright as Jupiter.
    1
  1041. Anyone get to see this comet? A3. We've had the remnants of a hurricane moving through and haven't seen a clear sky for a week. So i missed it. Happily, A3 is going to make its way west over the next fortnight and will be visible after sundown. Maybe.
    1
  1042. lol Though it would be cool if 20% of everyone in the country was working on the same project!
    1
  1043. The Apollo Basin? Which mission landed there?
    1
  1044. no, you're the only one
    1
  1045.  @therealzilch  "current usage define meaning" Yes, yes, it does. And that's pretty hard for someone like me who still puts two spaces after a period to swallow.
    1
  1046.  @AM-rd9pu  "no conspiracy theory is to great" In a way, the greater the better
    1
  1047.  @AM-rd9pu  Yeah, it's like, hell, if those are bots, they're kickass bots.
    1
  1048.  @AM-rd9pu  Like that Papa Lego guy.
    1
  1049.  @lllbbb5379  "intellectual competency" I asked an obvious and straightforward question. Not a particularly intellectual question.
    1
  1050.  @lllbbb5379  So how do you suppose the AI of the 60s could have been used to fake a moon landing in even the remotest possible sense?
    1
  1051.  @lllbbb5379  "you think her comment was ridiculous" How do you suppose the AI of the 60s might have been used to fabricate a moon landing?
    1
  1052. you are looking at video taken through photographic filters
    1
  1053. "I love how these tinfoil hat wearers get debunked so easily and yet their bruised egos won't allow them to admit they're wrong. Same goes for flat earthers." Like someone in another thread said: The moon landing deniers are more noxious than the flat Earthers, because at least the flat earthers KNOW they're kooks.
    1
  1054. lol! you have a half brain!
    1
  1055. ​ @therealzilch lol!
    1
  1056. lol
    1
  1057.  @rockethead7  I'm impressed by the specificity of the reprimand.
    1
  1058.  @ashrafdhoda8781  There were nine missions to the moon and like @michaelstillman1171 mentioned, six of those landed. Of the remaining three, two never intended to land and the other was aborted in cislunar space, which as you might imagine, was a real hoot.
    1
  1059. they went nine times
    1
  1060. ​ @therealzilch  Interesting.
    1
  1061.  @occhamite  Well, at least he was able to generate one original thought, which is more than most.
    1
  1062. You could go see some in the Air and Space Museum.
    1
  1063. "you don't have to trust me" Otay, Buckwheat.
    1
  1064.  @therealzilch  That would be a fascinating excursion. A window into a sort of mysterious world. There's a mystique. You know, one of the big LSD producers had his laboratory in some sort of underground nuclear missile installation in. . . was it Kansas? Somewhere in the heartland. He lived there too. I forget the details but he was producing something like 80% of all the LSD that was sold in the U.S. at his peak. It's pretty tricky stuff to make and takes a lot of knowhow and a lot of lab equipment. I'm sure there's a documentary.
    1
  1065. ​ @fuckyougeorgebush The U.S. government claims to have a nuclear arsenal. Do you doubt it? You've never seen it, so you don't know.
    1
  1066.  @stusue9733  Yeah. Maybe it's the temperature at which a rock or a theoretical quantity of water stabilizes.
    1
  1067.  @stusue9733  Well, true. So, when i read that the temp on the moon is 200 C or whatever, what is that the temperature of? The rocks or the bit of gasses that exist above the rocks? Something else?
    1
  1068.  @therealzilch  Do you happen to be familiar with the work of one Marshall McLuhan and another Neil Postman?
    1
  1069.  @stusue9733  Oh. . . . oh, dear. I see.
    1
  1070. ​ @michelhaineault6654 You got a timestamp for this flag movement?
    1
  1071. A rock that cuts through the atmosphere at 50,000 mph is bound to show some wear and tear, tho.
    1
  1072. ​ @rockethead7 Visble and quite nicely done.
    1
  1073. Nine, if you ask me.
    1
  1074.  @occhamite  "Duke" Charlie was recently interviewed and he recounts those moments. The YT video title is "moon astronaut reacts to moon landing deniers".
    1
  1075. Perestroika
    1
  1076.  @theeraphatsunthornwit6266  Where do you get this 100 billion number?
    1
  1077. Why do you think it was impossible?
    1
  1078. ​ @stusue9733  He is from Urguay.
    1
  1079. What technology do you think they needed but didn't have?
    1
  1080.  @gotsm9959  Sounds reasonable.
    1
  1081. ​ @liontone Yes, there were no videographic techniques existent in the 60s to simulate the movement of dust. Also, the low gravity environment is apparent (and quantifiable) and impossible to simulate convincingly on Earth.
    1
  1082.  @rockethead7  Totally
    1
  1083.  @WilliamMann-co8un  Ah, now that's better. That's text produced by an NI (natural intelligence.)
    1
  1084.  @WilliamMann-co8un  This is a bot-ish reply that could follow anything that anyone says.
    1
  1085.  @theeraphatsunthornwit6266  i did. that's how i know you're lying
    1
  1086.  @theeraphatsunthornwit6266  "Artemis already spent 100 billion" I think you're making up numbers. Or do you have a source on that?
    1
  1087. Here in the U.S. we are already $30 trillion or so in debt. Why not make it $31 trillion and get a moon base out of the deal?
    1
  1088. @stusue9733  Brilliant!
    1
  1089. ​ @stellarwind1946 "zero health concerns". If there were zero health concerns then why did the astronauts wear dosimeters?
    1
  1090. Yes
    1
  1091. Yeah, pottery was invented during the Reagan administration.
    1
  1092.  @therealzilch  Ah, yes. Two things an earth telescope can't do: look at the atmosphere and not look through the atmosphere
    1
  1093. How did they transmit? Radio and microwaves. Next question?
    1
  1094. @therealzilch  Who has seen the wind? Neither you nor I, but when the trees bow down their heads, the wind is passing by.
    1
  1095.  @therealzilch  Or, in this case, what is even meant by "fake"? A photo taken on Earth and misrepresented as the moon is still a real photograph. Maybe i need to look into this Google AI photo analysis business. It seems to me that freefall analysis of things falling on the moon is a nice elegant simple and, as far as i can imagine, incontrovertible proof of location.
    1
  1096.  @stusue9733  This morning i was thinking that i might become a Republican. Maybe i already am. Not a MAGA, not by a long shot. A Romney establishment Republican. I'm nearing the 50 year mark, so maybe it's time I was reading the National Review, and it was the first thoughtful political article I've read in a long time. Which is my fault because i know they're out there. The article was saying that Trump is rotten in at least 3 different ways. It was critical of his involvement in Jan 6, then went on to say that Biden ought to pardon Trump, for the good of the country, and Trump should, in turn, extend an olive branch to Biden, somehow. Who is saying these things? Not the Dems, not the MAGAs. I cannot abide any movement that is so hellbent on being right that they cannot consider what is good. I really would like to live among those 800 year old pines in B.C., but i know that's not going to happen.
    1
  1097.  @stusue9733  "Now can we stop this?" I don't see a path. Though I've always been drawn to British Columbia. I would like to move there. I feel quite serious about that. My wife's not even from this country, and I'm sure she's up for it. Though maybe I'll change my mind after the inital shock wears off. Maybe not. I'm sad. I really am.
    1
  1098. Today is Election Day in US America. I predict that Donald declares victory by 10 p.m. tonight. Wednesday there will be a lethal attack on at least one of the ballot counting centers (though i hope there is not) in a swing state. And multiple centers are commandered by MAGAs which prevents further counting of votes. Biden and the governors call in the National Guard and retake the center to resume counting. Kamala will declare victory by the end of the week. For my part, I'm going to bed at 9 pm as usual because i have to be to work early tomorrow morning.
    1
  1099.  @therealzilch  Those bastards really did destroy ALL the evidence!
    1
  1100. I heard they either "lost" or "destroyed" Luna herself.
    1
  1101. ​ @michaelstillman1171  I think you mean "there writing."
    1
  1102.  @scottyboy2400  and your response to the evidence presented by rocketman is... what? go ahead and respond.
    1
  1103.  @stellarwind1946  "Earth has a lot of gravity. Escaping its pull requires tremendous energy." Everyone is in agreement on that point. Kinetic energy is 1/2mv^2. The v is about 25,000 mph (escape velocity) and the m is whatever mass is being accelerated. Of course, in the case of a rocket, the mass being accelerated is continuously decreasing as fuel is spent, so an accurate calculation would require some calculus. The point is, if it were impossible to get to the moon and back with the volume of fuel purported taken, then a realtively simple calculation would reveal the fraud. A college undergraduate could do it. Do you really think that such an easily disproven claim could stand 50 years of scrutiny?
    1
  1104.  @stellarwind1946  "planetary motion around an object does not require energy. Try again." The challenge is: why would a spacecraft be any different from a planet? We're talking Newton's First Law here—an object in motion stays in motion unless acted on by an outside force. The only force acting to slow the spacecraft as it speeds away is Earth's gravity. This is where the concept of escape velocity comes in: if the spaceship is moving away from Earth at a velocity above escape velocity, it's never coming back. So once the ship is up to speed, they shut the engines and it coasts the rest of the way. The only fuel needed is for midcourse corrections. And then fuel is needed again to slow the craft below the escape velocity of the moon so it attains orbit. There's no question about this. It's very simple and straightforward.
    1
  1105. The nerve!
    1
  1106.  @rockethead7  I'm erring on the side of excessive generosity.
    1
  1107. This fellow shows a measure of curiosity and sincerity, so it preferable to recognize that.
    1
  1108. Flathead incoming
    1
  1109.  @mich8292  "I don't get..." How much of the story do you know? The harassment? The lies that Sibrel told Buzz to lure him in? How Sibrel escalated the conflict? It's not like Sibrel just happened to run into Aldrin, asked him if he went to the moon, and Aldrin hauled off and popped him out of the blue. There's a story behind it. And Aldrin was not known for being a cool customer.
    1
  1110.  @rockethead7  Yeah, I've heard. I've also heard interviews where he talks pretty candidly about the depression and alcoholism and anxiety that struck him after Apollo 11. I really respected that, that someone with his credentials would be so forgiving about his own weaknesses. I like the guy. But of course, i never had to work with him.
    1
  1111.  @rockethead7  That's so cool. Buzz is practically superhuman. He not long ago got married again to some beautiful woman 30 years his junior.
    1
  1112. ​ @rockethead7  You just happened to run into Buzz Aldrin?
    1
  1113.  @rockethead7  "the next time i saw Aldrin" Wait... what? WHAT?!
    1
  1114. You're making stuff up.
    1
  1115.  @therealzilch  He also Said "we don't know what on the backside of the moon" which is hard to believe given the number of orbiters that have surveyed the entire world.
    1
  1116.  @dansv1  In that case i would say Nelson's brain is dark.
    1
  1117. 2024 - 1972 = 52
    1
  1118. Did he have reasons for this belief?
    1
  1119. That's only because you have a functional cortex.
    1
  1120. "NSA cut the budget because there was no sign of communist on the moon" Them Reds was in the air They was on the ground They was all over. I looked up in my chimney hole Even deep dowm in my toilet bowl They got away.
    1
  1121.  @therealzilch  That's what i thought
    1
  1122. what
    1
  1123. They did. Next question?
    1
  1124. DT will lead our great nation with more wisdom than The Christ.
    1
  1125. If the moon landings were faked, why haven't they been faked again, given the more advanced tech today?
    1
  1126. It's a pretty big country and you'll find every viewpoint imaginable.
    1
  1127.  @deanhall6045  If you really do want to understand how those pressure suits were cooled. Just go to Google Scholar and search key words: apollo pressure suits cooling. I'm seeing everything from speculative articles pre-1969 to retrospective analyses In the past decade, and from institutions all around the world. If it's physically impossible, as you imply, then how has the U.S. managed to keep all of these experts singing the same tune for so long?
    1
  1128. I hope that babfoon enters the "Fake or Real" lexicon.
    1
  1129. ​ @facel2 South Korea?
    1
  1130. Then count me a babfoon.
    1
  1131. Most of them are still on the moon.
    1
  1132.  @stusue9733  What?
    1
  1133.  @michaelstillman1171  Where our enemies?
    1
  1134. Are Russian soldiers not being killed by USAmerican artillery as i type?
    1
  1135. What is your reasoning?
    1
  1136. Do you have any reasons for your beliefs here?
    1
  1137.  @eric_sandstrom  Yeah, I don't really understand what triggers the censor. URLs do. And certain words/phrases.
    1
  1138. Because there hasn't been a fully funded project to go to the moon since 1972.
    1
  1139. It is not possible or it would have been done. Why it is not possible is a question of elementary optics and engineering (which i admit i don't myself understand but plenty of people do.)
    1
  1140.  @stusue9733  Well, anything that extends the length of the mission means you have to bring more stuff to keep people alive which means a bigger rocket, eh?
    1
  1141. The engineers operating the Parker Solar Probe don't work for free.
    1
  1142. Probably because sending humans is incredibly expensive and dangerous for nothing much in return. Unless you're trying to win a Cold War.
    1
  1143. Ok but when are they finally going to build a base on Eris?
    1
  1144. as I see it, the Space Race was one front of the Arms Race to build ICBMs
    1
  1145. @rockethead7  lol
    1
  1146. "could've been artificially faked!" Okay, how?
    1
  1147.  @stusue9733  The populace is huge and civil order continues only as long as they don't all act out in unison. The police are always badly outnumbered and outgunned in any given city, but they make up for it by coordinating their movements. Or something like that. Just tossing ideas around.
    1
  1148. ​ @stusue9733 If the military plan is a carpet bombing that flattens everything, then rifles aren't any use. But if the military goal is to occupy something worth occupying, with buildings and live people remaining, then they've got to deal with the enemy on a rifle-by-rifle basis. So my civilian mind imagines.
    1
  1149. Do you believe in the lizard people?
    1
  1150. Zelensky and the Ukranians sure are swell to play along like they are.
    1
  1151.  @therealzilch  Vienna... you really are the real zilch!
    1
  1152. Like what?
    1
  1153.  @rockethead7  "that's the impressive part" Yes!
    1
  1154.  @michaelstillman1171  Yes. And A13. And probably lots of minor incidents.
    1
  1155.  @michaelstillman1171  Which they more or less were in the Mercury missions, right? But Apollo could not have happened, with all its docking and the uncertainties of landing, without significant astronaut piloting.
    1
  1156. That's interesting. Can you post a time stamp where that happens?
    1
  1157.  @therealzilch  Ed's the man.
    1
  1158.  @therealzilch  You don't know of a writer named Edward Abbey? I ask because he was a cantankerous desert rat who was known to be unfriendly to nuclear proliferation.
    1
  1159.  @therealzilch  A fortnight is a long time to sit in a cage.
    1
  1160. "Earth is a spaceship and there are no passengers. We are all crew."
    1
  1161. "flat Earth implosion" It's there some collapse of the flerfish ideology going on? What do you mean, "implosion"?
    1
  1162.  @therealzilch  "I was just informed on another channel that the ISS is a hologram projected below one of two jets" That would also be pretty cool, though I have a hard time believing it.
    1
  1163. it's hard to say that a society that was splitting atoms had "limited technology"
    1
  1164.  @philwalkercuriousmind  "we could make a good looking movie" Do you understand that "looking good" to movie goers is not enough? These videos have been analyzed by physicists and engineers for 60 years. There are precise elements that must line up having to do with the Laws of Motion. And as far as "extraordinary claims"--in order to believe that Apollo was a big fraud, you also have to believe that the five countries that have photographed the Apollo sites in the past 25 years are also in on it. And you also believe that no scientist or engineer on Earth for the past six decades has noticed the fakery or hasn't bothered to publish anything about it. Now THOSE are extraordinary claims and those are your claims, if you want to believe that it's all a big conspiracy.
    1
  1165.  @philwalkercuriousmind  "We know for a fact we could make a convincing film in 1969." Please, then, explain how in 1969 they could simulate an airless 1/6 g environment. Objects (like astronauts) follow different trajectories in 1/6 g. If the video did not get it exactly right, then that could easily be detected by analyzing the video. The dust that gets kicked around, for example, does not form clouds or linger in the air or show any signs of air resistance. Instead it follows the parabolic curves expected in an airless microgravity environment. So there's your extrordinary evidence.
    1
  1166. it's always been this way. the working classes despise anything they don't understand. not all, of course, but enough for "populist" personalities to periodically emerge and whip them into a frenzy en masse from time to time.
    1
  1167.  @Marinesniprx  "undereducated" What makes you think so?
    1
  1168.  @scootert35  You can prove it yourself, if you have a buddy 300 miles north or south of you. Read up. Try DickDuckGo
    1
  1169.  @AMC2283  Of course the footprints and rover tracks in the ISRO photos could be faked. But then so would Japan's photos taken from their lunar orbiter. And the photos from Arizona State. China has said they found disturbances, but i don't think they've released their photos.
    1
  1170.  @AMC2283  The ISRO has already released photos of the Apollo landing sites taken from lunar orbit. Everything is right where it should be.
    1
  1171. ​ @AMC2283 Since when is India the opponent of the USA?
    1
  1172. A terrifying prospect and thankfully not so.
    1
  1173. Where are you getting your numbers? i think you're just making things up.
    1
  1174.  @FreeDocumentaryHistory  You've got quite an active board here, eh?
    1
  1175. ​ @michaelstillman1171  Yeah, the reflectors are not the most persuasive evidence. Though they count for something. I mean, how do you get them in place without the Soviets noticing?
    1
  1176.  @rockethead7  lol. It does take a pretty generous reading to find something productive there.
    1
  1177. lol! And a roast beef sandwich!
    1
  1178. and how about the Salem Witch Trials?
    1
  1179.  @therealzilch  Did the article consider the curvature of the Earth?
    1
  1180. You must'a went to school in Kansas.
    1
  1181. ​ @candidkevi2719 Of someone did research, what would be a good research question?
    1
  1182. Not too skeptics among the Apollo deniers or among truthers in general. At least not among those making comments here on You Tube.
    1
  1183. what explanations went unaddressed?
    1
  1184.  @occhamite  "plutonium..." well, then, maybe i should move the bar of plutonium i keep under my pillow at night. should put it in the basement. appreciate the heads up
    1
  1185. i have never heard of radioactivity in space being a problem. are you sure you know what you're talking about?
    1
  1186. "even with roip there's a delay" Don't you understand that we are talking about the speed of light. Radio waves travel at the speed of light. That's why there's a delay. It doesn't matter of it's roip or anything else. Digital information transmission is SLOWER than the analogue signals of the 60s. Because it takes time to process the digits. That's why it takes 5 seconds to send an email to the guy down the hall. If you used a radio from the 60s you could reach him FASTER. There's no new technology that can transmit information any faster than what they were doing in 1969, and probably never will unless tachyons are discovered.
    1
  1187. Apollo 14 actually went to Phobos instead of Luna.
    1
  1188. i bet you can't find a link to NASA saying this. i bet you're just repeating what someone else told you
    1
  1189.  @AM-rd9pu  I've thought of getting into astrophotography. Maybe there's a reasonably affordable entry point these days...
    1
  1190.  @AM-rd9pu  "The more light the sensor picks up over time," Right. And the eye doesn't have the capacity to store up exposure over time. Our shutter speed is limited. Otherwise we might burn out a retina. And speaking of photographing stars. My wife's iPhone does a fantastic job of exposing stars, even with the neighbor's porch light on. It must be some kind of multi-exposure post processing layering thing.
    1
  1191. This morning, awake at 4:00 a.m. as always, i could see the aurora from my front porch. And we're way down here at about the 40th parallel. Weirdly, my wife's iPhone picked up the color BETTER than the naked eye! Someone please explain. (Yes, of course i could google it, but I'm not hermit and do enjoy occasional conversation.)
    1
  1192.  @aok4418  "would receive that amount within minutes" Well, that would certainly be interesting information and I'm willing to change my mind about almost anything given new information. If you ever come across the article(s) where that info appears, give me the title and year of publication. Something that i can verify.
    1
  1193.  @aok4418  "unless you can get to and from within minutes..." Where did you get "minutes"? That's the part you are pulling out of a hat.
    1
  1194.  @aok4418  I know that article and it doesn't say anything about exposure time. There's a big difference between spending a day in space versus a year.
    1
  1195.  @aok4418  Yes, I'm incapable of finding the article you claims exists.
    1
  1196.  @aok4418  If you're making up lies, as it appears, then zero times will do.
    1
  1197.  @aok4418  "how many times do i have to..." Just once. One article. The one where you got this idea that the VABs biological effects are "critical" within minutes. The article that doesn't exist
    1
  1198.  @aok4418  It's simple--if there's some study out there that suggests the VA Belts are fatal to humans in a spacecraft within minutes, just post the title of the article. Year of publication is also nice. I don't think any such article exists. But it's also true that there's a lot i don't know.
    1
  1199.  @aok4418  Well, if you can point to the source of this 5 minutes figure, i would certainly be interested. If Apollo were a fraud, i certainly want to know. So, yes, please post the article title and author (since links often do not go through)
    1
  1200.  @aok4418  You can just read my response to this from the last time you cut and pasted it.
    1
  1201.  @aok4418  I guarantee you won't find any professionals out there saying that a few hours spent in the VABs is biologically dangerous. I think you are overlooking the time factor. Spending a few days in the VAB might be dangerous. Spending a few months on the moon might expose one to to much radiation. Think of an x-ray. Spending a few minutes in an x-ray machine is no big deal, but you wouldn't want to spend the whole week in one. For this reason, nothing you're saying is meaningful without considering time of exposure.
    1
  1202.  @aok4418  The radiation is not deadly or even dangerous, speaking biologically, after the few hours' exposure needed to traverse the belts. If you find any scientists saying otherwise, of be interested to know who. The dangers, however, of having the electronics a crewed spaceship malfunction are obvious.
    1
  1203.  @aok4418  Yeah they were testing the effects of radiation on the electronics of the new man-rated spacecraft, and it passed. That was years ago. What's your point? What problem do YOU think that they've encountered?
    1
  1204. ​ @rockethead7 The missing articles and subject-verb agreement errors are surely ESL errors.
    1
  1205. Well, yeah, those are the ones we hear about and who get interviewed for documentaries.
    1
  1206.  @therealzilch  What a friend we have in cheeses.
    1
  1207.  @marksprague1280 And they're not just random con men. These are the best they can come up with.
    1
  1208. I agree with everything you wrote here and i work in higher education. The problem that India has is that they send their best and brightest here and they STAY here Thanks India!
    1
  1209.  @TheWokeFlatEarthTruth  Ah, yeah, 'from when they launched.'
    1
  1210. Yes, you are
    1
  1211.  @michaelstillman1171  That's a really suggestion you give there.
    1
  1212.  @michaelstillman1171  "classes" They just got their first grades back which were pretty mediocre, so we'll see how they take it.
    1
  1213. Been teaching the kids about the rhetorical appeals. And i realize that my responses heavy on the logos and light on the ethos and pathos. If my purpose is to change hearts and minds here, then i think i need to bring in some of the others, especially ethos--a sense of common ground and goodwill with my audience. Then again maybe that's not my purpose. Or maybe the people i reply to are not my audience. But i do so love the logos. (sounds like a psychiatric condition.) Come to think of it, maybe that's the reason for my handle--a little self-effacement for the sake of goodwill? Maybe I'll start opening every reply with "That's a really point you make there..."
    1
  1214. I hope the U.S. makes it to the moon before China. A bit childish of me, i admit. But no more childish than rooting for the Yankees
    1
  1215. ​ @stusue9733 I'm convinced that Dubay doesn't believe his own bull.
    1
  1216.  @therealzilch  Here in Pennsylvania, the forested mountainsides are about to turn orange, red, golden. The apples are ripening. Farmers pressing cider for the fall festivals, and cutting diabolical corn mazes to scare the children. I imagine that Austria has a few fall festivals of its own.
    1
  1217. The Ascent Of Man. For good and ill.
    1
  1218. I am also interested to hear you expand on the fuel requirements of the Apollo missions.
    1
  1219.  @rockethead7  "ANYBODY with a 3 foot dish and a 50 watt radio can bounce radio signals off of the moon?" This sounds like a fun project. My wife will love it!
    1
  1220.  @therealzilch  "@petepayette6690 Are you sure it's not a gazillion degrees?" Lol!
    1
  1221.  @leetheboss8538  No, all the rocket engineers who have studied the data and other evidence for the past five decades--none of them agrees with you
    1
  1222. How do you suppose they managed to keep it a secret from 500,000 aerospace engineers, geologists and physicists all over the world for the past 55 years?
    1
  1223. all six flags are there
    1
  1224.  @levin448  Yeah you could have gotten latitude without a clock because you know the moment when the sun stops rising, it's high noon. And the angle of the sun above the horizon at that moment for a given date gives latitude. But, yeah, if you knew the exact TIME the sun reached its peak, that would tell you how far east or west you were. Right? But not having the clock is such an interesting problem to have since it seems imminently solvable. But apparently was not. I think one of those European kings or queens offered a serious reward for anyone who could come up with a way of determining longitude at sea.
    1
  1225.  @levin448  Interesting. So building a seaworthy clock would have been the high tech dream of the time.
    1
  1226.  @levin448  Tell me more.
    1
  1227.  @stusue9733  I saw a stream of Starlinks over the summer. And, yeah, Tiangong was traveling west to east east. But, the ISS AND the shuttle?--there's a prize! There's actually an astrophotographer who has gotten photos of an astronaut visible outside the ISS on a spacewalk. Not quite sure i believe that. Looked like an amorphous blur to me. But who knows? And then there's The video i saw of the amateur radio guy getting a live response from someone in the ISS. They said "Welcome aboard." There's something fascinating to me about making that kind of visual or voice contact with something so apparently out of reach as the ISS. Know what i mean?
    1
  1228. The John Birch Society would have no trouble identifying the perpetrators. (Bring back the John Birch Society!)
    1
  1229. I-80 goes through New York City.
    1
  1230.  @michaelstillman1171  "...especially when they omit "PERIOD!" or a percentage greater than 100." I don't consider it a successful Denier argument without these sorts of adornments, not at all.
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  1231.  @craigphillips6308  I am always more suspect of claims that lead with "Fact:".
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  1232. Not very much, to answer your question.
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  1233.  @frankojudoka  "I guess the camera were so bad those days, we can’t see the stars. Makes sense to blame the technology." The astronauts themselves with their own eyes could no see stars. Why? Because it was daytime and you can imagine how bright the sun would be. You're not going to see a tiny speck of light next to the sun. As an experiment, go outside on a clear night, stand under a streetlight, look up at the streetlight and then count the number of stars you see next to it. To make it more realistic, wear sunglasses as the astronauts had tinted visors.
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  1234. not exactly a solid evidenced-based analysis you've got here...
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  1235. Where lying the country?
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  1236. ​ @rockethead7  You know, the tall provable here is not the ignorance. It's the ignorance paired with confidence. Bad combo.
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  1237.  @therealzilch  In my bedroom I've got all 360 of them.
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  1238.  @nunyabiz1780  Looks like you got no reasoning behind your belief. At least you haven't offered anything here.
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  1239. " Its silly to believe we landed safe and then just launched a couple guys off the moon and docked with the third guy's part of the ship in orbit. " And your reasons are, let me guess—none of our business?
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  1240.  @rockethead7  "the moon on the horizon" Ah, you have to make the measurement when you know exactly the position of the moon relative to Earth, and so you do it when the moon is crossing Earth's horizon? Or am i misunderstanding?
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  1241. ​ @rockethead7 "track continental shift" Cool. Humans are so clever.
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  1242. Your high school diploma is.
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  1243. Pearl Harbor, D-day, V-day
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  1244. ​ @michaelstillman1171  Understandable.
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  1245. if nine wasn't enough for you then ten won't be enough either
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  1246. "Joey got 81 million votes and we landed on the moon - Sounds about right - lol" Do you have a reasoned argument or just a gut feeling on these things?
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  1247. The extant photographs of landing sites are older than 3 years. The ones from Arizona State, for instance, were taken in 2009, according to Gemini (no relation).
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  1248.  @randyschissler5791  To step in and answer your question for him--no, he's never heard of any of these things and hasn't got a clue what's going on.
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  1249. "By the way it is indeed a fact (which even folks from NASA have mentioned) that the radiation beyond the earth and the moon is so strong that it can destroy the cells of any life form." How long must the time of exposure be to result in significant cell damage?
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  1250.  @therealzilch  Yeah, it is.
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