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Comments by "" (@neutronalchemist3241) on "M38 Carcano Carbine: Brilliant or Rubbish?" video.

It's cause Italians too formed their opinions reading English comments on the net. Historical Italian sources actually praise the rifle.
69
The Western Cartridge Company 6.5mm Oswald had are probably the best 6.5X52 Carcano ammos ever made. They have the correct dimensions and the correct construction (Carcano projectiles are not cylindrical, but slowly tapering toward the front and are opened at the bottom, that way the projectile can seat nicely in the deep rifling of the barrel without displacing too much material), but used post-WWII manufacturing and propellants, so they were more consistent than the Italian military ones
23
@JinKee The Western Cartridge Company ammos used by Oswald are probably the best cartridges for Carcano rifle ever made. They had both the correct diameter and the correct structure (the long round nose Carcano ammos had not a constant diameter, but were slightly tapering towards the tip, and were naked at the base, so for the projectile was easier to sit in the deep rifling of the Carcano), but with modern propellants and manufacturing techniques.
18
@henochparks Ronald Simmons, Chief of the Infantry Weapons Evaluation Branch of the Ballistic Research laboratory of the Department of the Army, testified that Oswald's rifle was as accurate as a brand new M14. Go make your researches first to type.
15
@henochparks And so, if he wasn't the first? "HAHAHA the experts were FBI and Marine snipers ... IT IS CLEAR YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT." Ronald Simmons, Chief of the Infantry Weapons Evaluation Branch of the Ballistic Research laboratory of the Department of the Army, testified to the Warren Commission. You were wrong and dind't know what you was talking about. Go make your researches first to type.
13
@henochparks That's not a fact. It's a fairy tale. You can read the report of the actual Army expert on the accuracy of the rifle in the Warren Report.
10
@henochparks Oh, a grammar nazi. The last refuge of the losers. Was the expert of the Army? Did he testify? Go make your researches first to type idiocies in capitals.
10
@henochparks Capt. Dr.James Young didn't say anything until decades later. You can buy his account like the rest of the conspiracy theories you like that much if you want. JFK and Connally had been hit by a total of two bullets. Their trajectories had been explained thousands of times. A total of one bullet had been found. Best study up instead of buying any conspiracy theory you hear pal.
9
@henochparks Dont' you feel stupid by typing laughs? Was Ronald Simmons an expert of the Army? Did he testify? Go make your researches first to type idiocies in capitals.
8
@henochparks You are demonstrating your idiocy again. Had you read the report, instead the conspiracy sites you buy, you would have know that the entry hole had been esrtbilished to be in the back of the head and its dimensions had been measured at the scalp (the skin that covers the skull). Sorry, i don't believe you know anyone outside your mom's basement and you evidently know nothing about terminal ballistic.
8
@henochparks Had you really read that report, you would have known the wound had been measured on the scalp, the skin that cover the skull bones, not the bones. but obviously, other than not knowing what you are talking about, you read only conspiracy sites. And buy anything. So, again, there's no limit to your idiocy. I asked " With what kind of instrument the diameter of this hole thad been measured?" (not what kind of super-duper-best-in-the-world instruments you THINK the Bethesda hospital owned), because, obviously, to measure a fraction of millimeter, you need an instrument capable to measure a fraction of millimeter. The hole in the scalp (not the bone, the skin over it) had been described at being 6X13mm (not 6.1X12.9mm, or 5.9X13.1mm, but 6x13mm) so, if the killing didn't happen in a bubble of improbability where bullets leave holes of only exactly round numbers, it's evident they were not measuring fractions of millimeters (despite the super-duper-best-in-the-world-oh-my-god-how-fantastic instruments you THINK the Bethesda hospital owned). But, further: "As for the wounds caused by rifled weapons, the size of the wound is not always helpful in determining the caliber or type of weapon (pistol, revolver, rifle). In fact, the size of the wound can be misleading (Fig. 8-2). The diameter of the wound may be smaller, greater or equal to the diameter of the bullet. Therefore, one must give a guarded opinion about the caliber of the bullet from the examination of the wound (Fig. 8-3)." (Abdullah Fatteh "Medicolegal Investigation of Gunshot Wounds", Philadelphia: Lippincott, 1976, p. 84) So, if you know nothing about forensic, as it's evidently the case, why are you typing like an idiot, again in capitals like an idiot? (easy answer)
8
@henochparks No limit to your idiocy. I asked " With what kind of instrument the diameter of this hole thad been measured?", because, obviously, to measure a fraction of millimeter, you need an instrument capable to measure a fraction of millimeter. The hole in the scalp (not the bone, the skin over it) had been described at being 6X13mm (not 6.1X12.9mm, or 5.9X13.1mm, but 6x13mm) so, if the killing didn't happen in a bubble of improbability where bullets leave holes of only exactly round numbers, it's evident that they were not measuring the fractions of millimeters. But, further: "As for the wounds caused by rifled weapons, the size of the wound is not always helpful in determining the caliber or type of weapon (pistol, revolver, rifle). In fact, the size of the wound can be misleading (Fig. 8-2). The diameter of the wound may be smaller, greater or equal to the diameter of the bullet. Therefore, one must give a guarded opinion about the caliber of the bullet from the examination of the wound (Fig. 8-3)." (Abdullah Fatteh "Medicolegal Investigation of Gunshot Wounds", Philadelphia: Lippincott, 1976, p. 84) So, if you know nothing about forensic, as it's evidently the case, why are you typing like an idiot, again in capitals like an idiot? (easy answer)
8
@henochparks Had you read the report instead the conspiracy sites yoy buy, you would have known that only one bullet had been found.
6
@henochparks The doctors estabilished the entry wound in the skull was on the back of it. You know nothing of terminal ballistic.
6
@henochparks You bought even that? There's no limit to what you can believe? With what kind of instrument the diameter of this hole thad been measured?
6
@henochparks Had you read the report instead the conspiracy sites yoy buy, you would have known that the entry hole had been esatbilished to be in the back of the head.
5
The 6.5x52 Carcano cartridge had been the first 6.5 cartridge officially adopted by any army. There was not a standard at that time. BTW, the 6.5X54 Mannlicher Shonauer adopted the same bullet dimensions of the Carcano. The 7.35 barrel had, between the lands, exactly the diameter the 6.5 barrel had between the grooves. That means the Italians could obtain brand new 7.35 barrels simply shortening and reboring million of worn out 6.5 barrels they had in the arsenals since the end of WWI.
4
The complain about the dispersion at Gaudo had been made by Adm. Iachino, but he had to justify his fiasco of the subsequent night someway. We have the direct witness of the Fire Director of the Vittorio Veneto, that didn't considered the dispersion of the salvos to be anything out of the ordinary. Simply the Vittorio Veneto fired from very long distance, in two different actions of 10 and 19 salvos each (between the two, the British ships were completely covered in smokescreens, so the Vittorio Veneto had to re-adjust the aim when it spotted them again) vs. two ships that, with a time of flight of the shells of over 40" could manuver to avoid the shots when they spotted the blasts. The Battle of the Espero Convoy already demonstrated that, even at half that distance, it was nearly impossible to hit a ship that was performing evasive manuvers (or in the battle of Denmark Strait, when POW decided to break the contact, the Bismark wasn't able to land a hit any more).
4
You are welcome! :)
3
The ammunition quality issue is often repeated, but unsourced. There is no proof that the 381/50 shot worse in battle than in trials. The same pictures taken by the British at Gaudo shows a longitudinal dispersion of about 2% of the distance of the Italian salvos, that, at that time, was considered good by any navy even in trials (US Navy experienced a 2.2% dispersion from the 16"/45 in 1941, and a 1.9% dispersion of the 16"/50 still in 1944 and they didn't have the low trajectory of the Italian 381), and the Vittorio Veneto was running at 28 knots. The delay coils were installed on the Littorio class battleships in 1942, further tightening the patterns.
3
Other than being spitzers (so ineherently more unstable in the body than round nose bullets like the 6.5 the Italians used up until that moment) the 7.35 Italian rounds, under the jacket, had an alluminium tip and a lead tail. That moved the center of gravity further back, ensuing the tumbling of the bullet into che flesh.
3
The lands of 7.35 barrels had exactly the diameter of the grooves of 6.5 ones. 7.35 was the smaller caliber that allowed to obtain new barrels simply cuting and reboring millions of WWI long rifles' worn-out barrels the Italians had in the deposits, while switching to a lighter 6.5 meant to manufacture new ammos AND new barrels. To switch to 7.35 was a cost-saving measure.
2
Also the sight is zeroed a 200m, that's convenient to hit a human-sized target from 0 to 300m by just aiming at the center of the torso, so 100 yards is close to the point of maximum elevation over the line of sight.
2
You know nothing of that action, do you?
2
It falls for gravity. If the clip si a little deformed, it maybe not fall alone, but it will anyway when the next clip is pushed in.
2
All the M38 and 91/38 short rifles have the lateral front and rear sling attachments. The sling of Owsald was not an original military one.
2
It could have been lighter. Somewere between the M1 rifle and the M1 carbine.
2
You are talking about the 91/38 Carbine. 451mm (17.75 inches) barrel lenght.
1
@Suzukisan Quantity, not quality.
1
@chapiit08 That had nothing to do with Communists. Fascism created a completely inefficient army logistic, filled with corruption and people that reach their position due to how well they licked the boots of their superiors.
1
@Rammkommando Italian standard troops were not well trained, and that affected their combat performances, while "special" units (Alpini, Bersaglieri, paratroopers, tank crews, artillery...), that had better training, performed admirably. Former Italian infantry soldiers that transitioned to other nations' units (IE those that joined the Waffen SS after the 1943 armistice) always remarked how better and more effective the training was. I remember a veteran stating "before I joined the SS, none told me what to do if a hand grenade was tossed in my direction".
1
@robosoldier11 The problem with Italian field equipment was of quantity, not of quality. Every WWII army had a mix of issued items, some very good, some good, some decent, some subpar. The BAR, IE, was an abysmal LMG, but the US could simply "throw more BAR at the problem". The ubiquitous 47/32 Mod. 1935 cannon was as good an AT gun as the as the 3,7 cm PaK 36 and Ordnance QF 2 lb, with the advantage to have anti-personnel HE shells also. Problem was that often it had ONLY HE shells provided. Later in the war, all those guns had been made obsolete by new tank models. The Cannone da 75/32 Mod. 1937 was as good as the German 7,5 cm PaK 97/38, but, again, it had been made in little quantities.
1
Western Cartridge Co. ammunitions that had been specifically made for 6.5 Carcano, with the correct size and the correct construction of the bullet (the back of the bullet was not jacketed, like in the Italian military ammos, that helps to seat the bullet correctly in the deep rifling of the Carcano rifle).
1
WWI European experience in WWI was almost the same. Practically no soldier adjusted the sight. Not that it would be of any benefit, since 99% of the rifle exchanges were done under 100m distance.
1
Nowadays Steinel sells complete ammos and spare bullets of the correct dimensions for fairly cheap.
1
@thefreese1 If you want to shoot the 6.5 Carcano using a round nose 160gr projectile, Steinel makes very good and accurate rounds of the correct dimensions that allow you to use the original sights. If you want to shoot a spitzer (but at that point the rifle will shoot high, if you don't rise the front blade) PPU makes 123 and 139 grain spitzers of the correct dimensions (but only for reload. PPU complete carcano rounds use .264 diameter bullets). Obviously, with the large V-notch sight, you'll never reach match accuracy. It had been made for rapid target acquisition, not for range shooting.
1
Absolutely not.
1
Mind that the 6.5 Swed., until 1941, used round nose bullets whose performances were practically the same than the 6.5 Carcano (156 gr bullet at 725 m/s vs. 162 gr bullet at 700 m/s). Also the spitzer adopted since 1941 was pretty far from modern 6.5 Creedmor performances (140 gr bullet at 800 m/s. A carcano load launching a 140gr spitzer would obtain similar results). Modern reloaders push the cartridge to the limit, or even overload it.
1
Yeah. He was killed by the 6.5 version.
1
Because they were thinking of replacing the Carcano with semiautos, or even with select fire rifles, since the end of WWI (See the Terni 1921, for which four different intermediate cartridges were developed, and then the experimental semiauto models of the '30s), and, when it was clear that there were not funds for that, they decided to switch to spitzer 7.35X51. In the end WWII begun too early, and they found themself stuck with the same ammos of WWI.
1
Oswald was not a professional sniper. That was simply his rifle. When he bought it, he didn't think to hit the President from the 6th floor of a book depository. Fortunately for him, it was a fairly easy shot. A good shot could have done it with a pistol. Had military rifles not been able to hit slowly moving human-sized targets at 80m, WWI would have been fought with bows and arrows.
1
Really not.
1
Prvi Partizan ammos are .264 in diameter (even less sometimes) while the correct diameter would be .266-.267, so it's difficult to have a good accuracy with them, unless with later barrels in really pristine conditions. The brass is great however.
1
The Carcano was 6.5mm, and you don't measure the width of the hole in a body. Actually is not possible to forensically determine if a person had been shot by a 9mm or a .45 if you don't find the bullet.
1
@charleswesley9907 The entry hole in the skull had never been measured. Only the external wound. It was of "6X15mm". Obviously they didn't measure the tenth of mm. http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0283a.htm
1
@charleswesley9907 I posted the extract from the autopsy. There was a 6x15mm (it's obvious that the tenth of mm had not been taken into account) wound on his skin. that doesn't say anything on the bore of the bullet.
1
Some decades ago, when Carcano milsurp rounds were abundant and cheap, and 7.62X39 were unobtanium in the US, cartriges for the AK were obtained shortening the Carcano cases.
1
Original Italian 7.35 Carcano were zeroed at 200m. The Finns required them to be set at 150m first to be delivered.
1
Any long firearm can hit a human-sized target at 80m max. Even a pistol can do it. Oswald's Carcano was as accurate as a brand new M14. That's nothing to write home about for a bolt action rifle, but more than enough for the job. There had not been any magic bullet. Oswald's second shot flew almost straight from the barrel to Connally's wrist. Only then, being very slow at that point, deviated to hit the leg.
1
It's far cheaper to cast lead bullets of the correct size and weight. Privates doesn't need to comply with the hague convention.
1
That the rifle is still working when any semiauto had already given up.
1
Vladimir Grigoryevich Fyodorov (later the desigher of the Fedorov Avtomat) recognised that already witnessing the battles of the Russo-Japanese war.
1
We don't know if the optic was zeroed or not. The iron sights surely were.
1
They recovered one nearly pristine bullet, the easily recognizable pieces of another, and three used brass. Oswald used ammo made by Western Cartridge Co. Those had the correct size and construction of the bullet, and used modern propellants. The tests on the rifle had been made by the Army experts using the same ammo.
1
They generally had problems of quantity, not of quality.
1
In the economy of WWII to have the best rifle was as important as to have the best shoelaces. BTW, when the enemy have 4-5 times the weapons you have it doesn't count if they are good or bad.
1
Cause 7.35 barrel had between the lands exactly the dimension that 6.5 barrels had between the grooves. That means that they could obtain brand new barrels simply shortening and reboring millions of worn out 6.5 barrels they had in the arsenals since the end of WWI.
1
To need an hammer to open the bolt is a sign of overpressure.
1
The Western Cartridge Company 6.5mm are probably the best 6.5X52 Carcano ammos ever made. They have the correct dimensions and the correct construction (Carcano projectiles are not cylindrical, but slowly tapering toward the front and are opened at the bottom, that way the projectile can seat nicely in the deep rifling of the barrel without displacing too much material), but used post-WWII manufacturing and propellants, so they were more consistent than the Italian military ones.
1
TheKoba49 has a series of great videos on gunsmithing the Carcano rifles in 6.5 and 7.35, casting lead bullets for them and shooting them. Check for him.
1
It's more than the kennedy thing influenced the reputation. Since LHO shooting had to be impossible (to justify the conspirancy theory), the rifle had to be junk.
1
The Western Cartridge 6.5x52mm ammos Oswald used are probably the best Carcano ammunitions ever made. They had the correct dimensions and construction (the open bottom of the cartridge was important to make it seat in the deep rifling of the Carcano), but used modern propellant and manufacturing methods.
1