Comments by "ZIPZ" (@zipz8423) on "Putin's "Unstoppable" Weapon Falls On Kyiv, Ukraine "Defenceless" Against Kinzhal Hypersonic Missile" video.

@williamzk9083 well PAC-3 is tearing them up.
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It was always possible.
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They are overhyped.
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You got a lot right, bravo dude.
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@WalkOverHotCoal You are forgetting something, to sustain mach 12 you need something that is going to "sustain it."This is a single stage weapon with a 2,000 km range. After motor burn out - which will happen measured in a couple of minutes, then whatever post boost manouevering it does, thats going to reduce both range and velocity. And this is a missile not a reentry body so it will not be hitting the gorund at mach 12 either. The deceleration forces would be too great that is the limitation for these types of weapons if they are bunker busters. The Pentagon already know this too. Since everybody has had a chance to see these weapons on radar by now, somebody has all of the answers.
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@WalkOverHotCoal A few things. A missile is not a nuclear warhead re entry body so that is a poor comparison. We are not talking about anything other than Kinzhal. It is not an air breather, a Scramjet or any other type of "jet."It has one rocket motor and less than half a ton of fuel. Of all of the various hypersonic missiles touted, Kinzhal is probably the most vulnerable to intercept, based on a few known details, it lacks a terminal guidance sensor and relies on strapdown INS - that`s a capability limitation in itself. The other hypersonic weapons are very problematic for BMD, and there are plenty of down sides for a defender - however, in our favour we are way ahead of both China and Russia regards a global sensor net -without which you have zero chance of intercepting a threat at range so you have to rely on point or local defence alone. Lastly, the USN has SM6 - people dont realise how good it is. However these hypersonics pose a serious threat.
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Thats because Patriot is not operational yet.
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@inquizative44 No, they arent capable of mach 10 or 12 I think that is baloney based on what the missiles are based on.
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@williamzk9083 I think the biggest victory for Russia is getting the world to believe Kinzhal is capable of mach 10 or 12 when that is probably false. The issue for Ukraine is they only have medium altitude SAMs and they do not have enough launchers. This will change when they get Patriot and SAMP-T operational but that brings a different set of issues - they can only defend small areas with those. The Russians simply have to avoid those areas, Ukraine cannot defend all of its high value targets, in fact no country could against all threats. Personally I believe both Patriot and SAMP-T can engage thse Kinzhals because their likely performance is lower than the hype but the PK will not be stellar.
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lol what about now son.
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Considering Kyiv doesn’t look like Stalingrad I think it’s safe to assume they are telling the truth about their missile defence success. If not, maybe you can tell us what happened to all of those Russian missiles?
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@WalkOverHotCoal Yes I do. But I am speaking as myself here. If you think this missile reaches mach 12 sustained including in the terminal phase then intercept will be improbable.However, I do not believe it does based on the donor missile it came from.
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@GwynBleys I am always surprised at the number of people who think Russia has a Mach 12 capable Iskander without any evidence.
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@williamzk9083 I think if you take an honest look at the missile capabilities based on the donor weapon and the fact it has no terminal seeker, I think Russian claims are over the top about it. With the kind of guidance and propulsion system it has ( one motor, no sustainer) it just isnt going to have great cross range capability in my book. Apart from making small course corrections, its flight path is probably quite predictable. The more it turns the slower it gets too in the terminal phase. Lastly, terminal speed is always limited by deceleration - if it is a bunker buster.I just dont buy the claims.
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@williamzk9083 I’ve never seen it mentioned anywhere that Kinzhal has any sort of active terminal guidance and even if it did, that guidance would be of little utility regarding cross range capability - which is adversely affected - limited by the donor weapon. It’s unpowered, that’s a huge limitation in manoeuvre capability right there, it can’t recover bearing or range to target after carrying out large manoeuvres, not if it wants to hit an aim point. It’s why I believe its manoeuvre capability is exaggerated. If it were a glide body, that would give it an expanded flight envelope - it’s not a glide body.
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@williamzk9083 I think the Russians probably have some far more capable hypersonic concepts, I just don’t think Kinzhal is one of them.
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@williamzk9083 we don’t know anything about the motor so everything from that is always going to be too vague. Also, we can’t ignore the launch method in this sort of calculus. The missile climbs, the motor burns out and there is no evidence it is still powered in the terminal phase. In fact, there are suggestions the claimed ranges are exaggerated. It has very small control surfaces and in thin air - how much manoeuvring could it be capable of? The answer is - not much. It doesn’t really matter if it has some sort of chamber TVC - as you’ll know it will still need the control surfaces for directional authority. At some point ALL of these weapons have to stop manoeuvring in order to hit an aim point - that’s when they will be vulnerable to PAC-3 CRI. Judging by the debris it looks like intercept is pretty late in the endgame - considering that’s where Patriot shines - after all this is a terminal defence missile - the Russians probably tried the most difficult method of striking the Patriot system. Max interceptor velocity doesn’t matter as much under those circumstances, they don’t have to travel cross range very much. These are almost head on shots. A much better way to neutralise that battery would have been to save their cruise missiles and drones up for one mass attack - say 100 cruise missiles and 50 drones plus any radar decoys they have. Instead they do it piecemeal. I’ve never understood this. Maybe they don’t have the capacity, who knows.
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2- In addition, I have a hard time believing the MIG-31 can release anything at 2 + Mach.
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@williamzk9083 yeah I believe it’s G limited to 4G too? I am not sure the beast is releasing Kinzhals at high speed it’s the altitude that matters more for the free ride into thin air for the weapon.
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@luke4442 Kinzhal isn’t a glide vehicle by any means and as you e seen, UKR is shutting them down. So much for superior Russian technology.
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Maybe, but the aim is to produce aircraft that have wings that can morph into different shapes to suit different flight profiles. The next generation for swing wing I guess. I first heard of this 20 years ago.
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I think the public have been conned somewhat, I do not think these missiles are capable of mach 10 or 12, I base that on the donor weapon it is based on, they just operate beyond the engagement envelope of current Ukraine AD systems in altitude performance and speed. It`s an Iskander M adapted for air launch. People have bought into the idea that a supersonic Mig-31 carrying a supersonic short ranged ballistic missile makes it a wonderweapon. That MIG will not be rated to travel very fast carrying one of those weapons it`s on the MIG because it is large enough to carry it, has the ground clearance and thrust to take it up to higher altitude to launch it to give it greater range. An SU-27 probably lacks the dynamics to do it. Once UKR gets Patriot and SAMP-T operational they will be able to successfully engage a few of them but they will never have enough launchers to cover every target. What I find most interesting is these missiles have been fired in a salvo of 6 and UKR airspace is under high density of surveilance, so lots of radars wll have looked at these missiles are well as space based assets - we know exactly what its capabilities are in terms of speed and altitude, granted they could have clipped some of its manouever capability but not its speed. So, nobody is talking, which is normal, we dont want them to know what we know.
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I am confident Kinzhal is within the engagement envelope of both Patriot and SAMP-T. The issue is UKR has none operational and will never have enough launchers to cover all possiblle targets and these weapons can only really cover small areas with any reasonable effectiveness. At this point Russia is simply testing them against the people of Ukraine.
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What about now Comrade? Lol
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