Comments by "Steve Valley" (@stevevalley7835) on "The Drydock - Episode 145" video.

  1.  @baronungernthebloody553  easy part first, Kaga also had flying off decks for both upper and lower hangars as originally built. If WWI had not happened, the UK would not have had a huge debt to US money interests. If WWI had not happened, the US would not have started the 1916 building program. The US Congress, in the 1920s, was not interested in funding a large navy. The thinking is, had the US not proposed the treaty to halt construction, Congress would have stopped funding for the 1916 program and the Lexingtons and South Dakotas would have been broken up on the slipway anyway. Without WWI, I do not see the US military ever being built up beyond that needed for random "big stick" waving exercises in Latin America, so taking on a British Empire not weakened by WWI would be suicidal. No matter how much US money interests may cry about British obstacles to their trade ambitions, I do not see Americans being willing to pay the tax to enable a large military.
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  2.  @dyerwulf5459  I noticed that too: KGVs in the Home Fleet, QEs in the Med and Rs in the Indian Ocean, but, on paper, the RM had a much more formidable surface force than Germany. My hunch is the Admiralty's perception of the threat. German surface ships could attack convoys needed to supply the UK. Egypt could be supplied via Suez, Gibraltar would make an Italian attempt to force the strait costly, and, at the end of the day, Malta and Cyprus aren't as important as the UK.
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  3.  @baronungernthebloody553  there was no "American military giant" until WWII. TR postured with the "Great White Fleet", but most of those ships were obsolete when they made the trip around the world. The US could handle Spain in 98, but declined an opportunity when it only took the Philippines and Guam, instead of all of the Spanish colonies in the Pacific. I wonder if the US could have engaged in WWI prior to April 1917, as it had been involved in "big stick" waving exercises in Mexico, Haiti, and the Dominican Republic in 16. When the US did engage in WWI, it was with French artillery and French and British aircraft. By some accounts, the Navy Bill of 1916 was in response to British interference in US trade. By some accounts, the RN was seizing neutral US ships carrying goods to neutral European countries, on the possibility of the goods being transshipped to Germany,, then selling the cargoes, and sometimes the ships, and the crown pocketing the proceeds. The 1916 bill was intended to build a fleet capable of standing up to the RN. Interest in building a fleet "second to none" came to a screeching halt when the Harding administration took office in 1921. Secretary Hughes' initial treaty proposal was an immediate stop to all capital ship building, because the US didn't want to spend another dime and wanted a way out from under the contracts with the shipyards. The treaty was supposed to give the USN parity with the RN, but reality is far from it. Look at the retention lists. The treaty gave the RN more tonnage, more ships and more firepower than the USN. The original Hughes proposal had the US retaining six battleships with 12" guns, while West Virginia, Colorado and Washington, all in an advanced state of construction, would be scrapped. Even the oldest ships retained by the RN in Hughes' proposal had 13.5" guns with substantially more throw weight, and they were newer than the 12" gun USN ships. The RN was also given licenses to build the Nelsons. The Colorados and Nagatos were 1916 designs. The Nelsons were a six year newer design that could fully exploit wartime experience. The US was clearly negotiating from a weak position, and everyone knew it, but the objective was to stop US spending on ships. Frankly, I'm amazed the USN got the money for the carrier conversions. When Calvin Coolidge was POTUS in the mid 20s, seeing a request by the Army for money for aircraft, asked "why can't they buy one aeroplane, and take turns flying it?"
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  4.  @michaeltruett817  iirc, the USN started using a multi-bulkhead torpedo defense system in the Tennessees. Ships prior to that were provided with a single torpedo bulkhead. During modernization in the early 30s, the New Mexicos apparently received a second torpedo bulkhead, as well as bulges. Earlier ships received bulges in their modernizations. There is a damage analysis of the BBs at Pearl on line, which I read some time ago. From my memory of the article, the multi-bulkhead system the West Virginia was built with performed well. The ship sank because it was hit so many times the system was overwhelmed. The retro-fitted bulges on Oklahoma did not perform as well.
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  5.  @konnigkratz  G B Shaw once said something along the lines of "Americans and English are two peoples separated by a common language". I tease my Canadian friend about putting a "u" in words where they don't belong, like labor and color. :^)
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  6.  @johnshepherd8687  Capital ships absolutely could be sunk by carrier aircraft in the 20s. The RN had Sopwith Cuckoos armed with Mk 9 18' torpedoes embarked on Argus in late 1918. The Cuckoo was followed by a continuous string of torpedo bombers through WWII. The USN had the DT embarked on carriers from 1921. followed by a string of models from Martin. There would be plenty of aircraft about looking to put a big hole below the waterline of capital ships, and a lot of those capital ships were built with diddly for protection against torpedo hits, and bulges were only retrofitted as the navies got around to it. For active defense against those torpedo bombers, both the RN and USN had single shot 3" guns and machine guns. The RN also had the Mk II iteration of the Vickers 2 pounder pompom. Such a hypothetical encounter could look very much like Midway, or Coral Sea, at half speed. The first ship sunk by an aerial torpedo was a Turkish freighter, sunk in the Sea of Marmara in August 1915. The torp was delivered by a Short floatplane. In 1918, the British navy planned a mass attack on the High Seas fleet in port using more than 100 carrier launched Cuckoos, but the war ended before enough of the aircraft could be built.
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  7.  @Strelnikov403  as originally built, the Renowns were very thin skinned as well. Hood's 12" thick belt does not cover much, before it is replaced by a 7" belt, with a 5" belt above that. The 12" thick portion is less than 9' high, with 3' of that below the waterline, according to drawings by the USN. The 13' thick belt on a Colorado class BB was 17' high, with 8'10" of that below the waterline. iirc, Drac noted that the problem with battlecruisers is, the moment you put battleship size guns on it, there is an overwhelming temptation to put it in line against real battleships. If you keep the battlecruiser in the "armored cruiser/second class battleship" range, with guns noticeably smaller than those of a BB, the temptation to routinely go against BBs starts to disappear because, all other things being equal, the smaller shells can't penetrate a BB's armor.
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  8.  @johnshepherd8687  I don't think we are discussing "accelerated" carrier development. We are discussing what was available in the late 20s. Yes, fighters would be embarked, Fairey Flycatchers for the RN and Boeing FBs for the USN. I figure the US has the two Lexingtons, while the RN has the three Courageouses, Eagle and Hermes. Both Argus and Langley left in port because they are too slow. The USN did figure aircraft were becoming too fast for machine guns in the early 30s and started developing the 1.1. BuOrd spent years on that thing, finally putting it in production in the late 30s, but it still didn't work right. The Mk II Vickers had reliability issues too, but it was available in the 20s. Later marks resolved those issues in the early 30s. As I said, it would be a precursor to Coral Sea or Midway, at 85mph instead of 150. Like the IJN, the RN would probably have an advantage in the effectiveness of it's torpedo planes too, because the USN lost interest in torpedo planes. Ranger is said to have been originally built with no torpedo magazine.
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