Comments by "Historia, Magistra Vitae" (@Historia.Magistra.Vitae.) on "TLDR News EU"
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@EA-js1me "Ultranationalism, irredentism, isolationism, statism, militarism, authoritarianism, conspiracy theories like anti-vax, xenophobia, homophobia, transphobia, and “Christian values” whatever that means… but no, definitely not far-right."
Only isolationism is a Far-Right characteristics out of the things you mentioned btw.
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@ittestnow : Hitler never abolished unions. He merged and nationalized them into one single super union known as the Deutsche Arbeitsfront (DAF, or German Labor Front). Still the biggest union ever created in Europe at least. The DAF created one single overarching labor union. Essentially all German workers and employees in every economic sector belonged to the DAF. For example, farmers were coordinated into the Reich Food Estate. While traditional unions prioritized workers’ rights, the DAF emphasized national economic goals above personal well-being.
Now if you want to talk about unions, well Hitler was merely imitating Lenin, who had earlier closed down all independent labor associations, factory committees and worker cooperatives, banned strikes, walkouts, and lockouts. Lenin even forced workers to work a slavish 80-hour week. After the Bolsheviks banned all labor unions, one unionist “described the unions as ‘living corpses.’” Any Russian worker who participated in general strikes was arrested, imprisoned or shot. Under Lenin’s regime, workers had no real representation or bargaining rights and were treated like industrial serfs who were chained to their factories. Although Hitler followed Lenin’s nationalizing craze, his treatment of workers did not mimic their Russian counterparts.
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@dyne313 "Yo, Hitler wasn't a fan of trade unions ... That's like a hallmark of "Left Wing"."
No socialist regime was a fan them. Every single socialist regime shut down independent unions. Not sure how Hitler is related to this conversation, but interestingly enough, both Hitler and Mussolini were simply imitating Lenin, who had earlier closed down all independent labor associations, factory committees and worker cooperatives, banned strikes, walkouts, and lockouts. Lenin even forced workers to work a slavish 80-hour week. After the Bolsheviks banned all labor unions, one unionist “described the unions as ‘living corpses.’” Any Russian worker who participated in general strikes was arrested, imprisoned or shot. Under Lenin’s regime, workers had no real representation or bargaining rights and were treated like industrial serfs who were chained to their factories. Although Hitler and Mussolini followed Lenin’s nationalizing craze, their treatment of workers did not mimic their Russian counterparts.
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@dyne313 "Fascism IS NOT left wing ... Fascism is a far right ideology."
Wrong. It was, a totalitarian far-left, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism/democracy, and marxism. The means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism.
Fascism was an outgrowth of Sorellian Syndicalism, which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism. The idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the state, or "embody" the state (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the state, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state."
As created by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile, Fascism comes from a belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its dictatorship cannot achieve Socialism, and that only the State can properly organize a Socialist Society. It cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
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@AppleAirsoft "Fascist apologist lines like that crumble when put against basic ideological fact or political science, "
That was merely a historical fact. Nothing more, nothing less. Fascism was totalitarian far-left, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from a French Marxist, known as Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism/democracy, and marxism. The means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism.
Fascism was an outgrowth of Sorellian Syndicalism, which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism. The idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the state, or "embody" the state (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the state, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state."
As created by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile, Fascism comes from a belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its dictatorship cannot achieve Socialism, and that only the State can properly organize a Socialist Society. It cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
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@jeyna8243 "Fascism isn't socialism, where did you get that."
Wrong. It most certainly was, and that's a historical fact. It was a totalitarian far-left, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from a French Marxist no less, called Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism/democracy, and marxism. The means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism.
Fascism was an outgrowth of Sorellian Syndicalism, which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism. The idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the state, or "embody" the state (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the state, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state."
As created by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile, Fascism comes from a belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its dictatorship cannot achieve Socialism, and that only the State can properly organize a Socialist Society. It cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
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@seraphin01 ""Far-right politics, or right-wing extremism, is a spectrum of political thought that tends to be radically conservative, ultra-nationalist, and authoritarian, often also including nativist tendencies"
Pretty much the complete opposite. Conservatism itself doesn't mean anything since the term is relative and depends what the country considers traditional. Being ultra-nationalist is a Leftist trait, since nationalism itself is a form of collectivism. Also authoritarianism is usually the hallmark of collectivism, hence the Left.
If we agree that the Far-Left is represented by socialist and collectivist ideologies, then logic dictates, that the Far-Right would be represented by pro-Capitalist ideologies based on (Classical) Liberalism / Libertarianism, anti-establishment and limited government.
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@OatmealGrillBlazer "fascism is not a left-wing ideology, it is a right-wing ideology that sprung from ultra-nationalism,"
Still wrong. Fascism was a totalitarian far-left, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from a French Marxist, known as Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism/democracy, and marxism. The means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism.
Fascism was an outgrowth of Sorellian Syndicalism, which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism. The idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the state, or "embody" the state (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the state, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state."
As created by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile, Fascism comes from a belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its dictatorship cannot achieve Socialism, and that only the State can properly organize a Socialist Society. It cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
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@silviobleta "at cost of workers under them that suffered horrendously due to union-busting,"
Both Fascists and National Socialists nationalized their unions. So called "union-busting" happened under every single socialist regime. In fact, both Hitler and Mussolini were simply imitating Lenin, who had earlier closed down all independent labor associations, factory committees and worker cooperatives, banned strikes, walkouts, and lockouts. Lenin even forced workers to work a slavish 80-hour week. After the Bolsheviks banned all labor unions, one unionist “described the unions as ‘living corpses.’” Any Russian worker who participated in general strikes was arrested, imprisoned or shot. Under Lenin’s regime, workers had no real representation or bargaining rights and were treated like industrial serfs who were chained to their factories. Although Hitler and Mussolini followed Lenin’s nationalizing craze, their treatment of workers did not mimic their Russian counterparts.
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@silviobleta "Everything regarding fascism is in complete antithesis to far-left ideologies, in literally every way, from the economic standpoints "
Wrong. First, Fascism and National Socialism were two fundamentally different, 3rd position socialist ideologies. Secondly, Fascism was a totalitarian far-left, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism/democracy, and marxism. The means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism.
Fascism was an outgrowth of Sorellian Syndicalism, which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism. The idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the state, or "embody" the state (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the state, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state."
As created by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile, Fascism comes from a belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its dictatorship cannot achieve Socialism, and that only the State can properly organize a Socialist Society. It cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
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@rullvardi "far-right framework characterized by extreme nationalism, authoritarianism, and rejection of egalitarianism."
None of those things are within the Far-Right framework. If we agree that Far-Left is characterized by socialism and collectivism in general, then logic dictates, that in return the Far-Right is characterized by capitalism and individualism. Therefore, people on the right believe that the best outcome for society is achieved when individual rights and civil liberties are paramount (individualism) and the role — and especially the power — of the government is minimized.
All that which limits individual power and increases group power is on the left.
All that which limits group power and gives civil freedoms and liberties to individuals is on the right.
Nationalism is a form of collectivism, and not advocated by the Right. In all Right wing ideologies, the Individual is superior to the State. In Leftist and especially in socialist ideologies the collective (such as the State) is superior to the individual.
While authoritarianism can happen on both sides, it certainly is utilized more by collectivist and socialist ideologies, who need to make sure that the "common good" of their group is prioritized over individuals and their profits for example. You rarely need authoritarianism to force people to live how they want to live, as long as they do not violate other's rights to do the same.
Egalitarianism, i.e. concept of social equality, for all people, has never been advocated by the Left either. They have always advocated for equity and prioritizing their own specific group over others. Marxism is a perfect example of this, since they only prioritize the proletarians and want to eliminate the "bourgeoisie" entirely. Meanwhile the Right certainly advocates equality of opportunity, and under the rule of law, i.e. that people deserve equal rights (Classical Liberalism).
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@rullvardi : Fascism was based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from French Marxist, known as Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism/democracy, and marxism. The means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism.
Fascism was an outgrowth of Sorellian Syndicalism, which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism. The idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the state, or "embody" the state (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the state, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state."
As created by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile, Fascism comes from a belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its dictatorship cannot achieve Socialism, and that only the State can properly organize a Socialist Society. It cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
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