Comments by "Volound" (@Volound) on "Munchies"
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disgusting. extremely cruel and barbaric - like pretty much everything else that used to be done 1400 years ago, but is not practised any more (among civilised societies). there is a reason we use the captive stun bolt, inert gas asphyxiation and electrical stunning. it renders the animal unconscious - unreceptive to pain, before it is slaughtered. that is humane - avoiding unnecessary suffering. can you imagine if your mother was in hospital and wanted to be euthanised, and someone came in and slit her fucking throat and hung her upside down (to make it easier for blood not only to escape, but to feed the brain and keep it aware)? that is absolutely barbaric.
there is no sane, scientific, rational, reasonable justification for this. it is all rooted in religious tradition. the amount of unnecessary suffering for the sake of superstition.. absolutely heartbreaking and infuriating.
if anyone buys into this "just the nerves" bollocks, read some of the scientific literature. read about why this has been banned in some countries, despite lobbying from the religious zealots. dawn was a fucking bimbo in this documentary. she had not a single fucking clue.
this is fucking cruel and stupid and it is the duty of every informed, rational person to oppose this pernicious garbage and purge it as soon as possible.
we will look back on this with shame. the 21st century and we were effectively torturing animals for the sake of superstition.
“animal rights come before religion” - Dan Jørgensen, agriculture minister for Denmark
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Amin Mansour "first Islam is not a cult"
wrong. islam fits the definition of "cult" perfectly: http://i.imgur.com/WeA4nia.png
"Second we don't worship muhammed(pbuh)"
you do, even if you like to think otherwise.
"Third he wasn't a pedophile "
wanting to fuck children is to be a paedophile. that is the definition of paedophilia. muhammad wanted to fuck aisha, as was explained. muhammad did fuck aisha, when she was still playing with dolls (attested by sahih hadith). muhammad was a child molestor. he also fucked concubines - female slaves. he was a perverted warmonger.
"Fourth it wasnt Muhammed who split the moon, as he is only human, it was Allah."
nobody split the moon. this is religious pseudoscientific bunk: http://lunarscience.nasa.gov/?question=evidence-moon-having-been-split-two
the qur'an attributes it to muhammad.
"Fifth it was asccention to the heavens and not to the moon"
that is what my comment says, you buffoon.
holy shit you people are useless.
"Sixth it wasn't a horse"
sahih hadith describe the buraq as being a winged horse. learn your religion.
"Seveneth the angel didn't hug him but squeezed his hand"
sahih hadith describe it explicitly as being an embrace. learn your religion.
"eight Muhammed died illetrate and never knew how to read."
there is no way you can know that. you cannot even prove that muhammad actually existed.
"My point: you are ignorant and I am not referring to the ignorance where one simply doesn't know but rather where one pecieves to know with some kind of arrogance when man actually does not know. Everything you said was wrong in that paragraph which highlights my initial point. Second you read the Quran because if one was to,
they would not come to such distasteful, unintellectual and false claims.
Lastly one has to affirm god exist to believes in miracles. The miracles are for those at the time and the place present to convince them of allah but to affirm Allah is true today then one must conclude that the miracles also occurred."
i know your own stupid religion better than you do, you feckless idiot, and part of that was because i actually read the qur'an, which almost no muslim i have talked to has ever done. do not call people ignorant when the version of islam you believe is pussified and diluted in order to make it easier for you to digest. read your fucking qur'an, read your sunnah, read your hadith. i have read all of those AND the bhagavad gita and the bible, and the guru granth sahib. atheists knowing more about religion than the actual religious people is typical. read the studies.
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GT45000 "Its pretty clear you reek of bias considering your clear contempt for religion, Islam in particular."
ad hominemn. my arguments stand and fall on their own merits.
"I am more concerned with how the animal lives before it dies which ofcourse you couldnt care about"
industrial efficiency is much less evil than torture, which is what happens when you rear an animal and then at the end, needlessly slit its throat when we have 21st century technology and understanding. that is evil.
"since you merely want to act the animal rights activist to bash Islam."
ad hominem. also, i bash any evil ideology that causes massive, global suffering.
"If you go to one of your supposedly humane secular slaughter houses, you will see that they arent the clinical painless operations you make them out to be."
they are. the animal is incapacitated, rendered completely unconscious. this can be done through electrical baths, in the case of poultry, or massive concussive trauma, in the case of cattle. this is completely painless. that is precisely why this is employed.
"The muslim slaughterhouses generally show more importance to each animal before slaughter rather then a conveyor belt of doom."
emotive, hyperbolic nonsense. you could feed it properly, massage it, dress it all up and then "shh" it to sleep before you kill it. if the animal ends up hanging by its legs with its throat cut while it flails around in a bloody panic, that is torture. does not matter one iota how it is treated beforehand. the act stands to be scrutinised separately. red herring.
"You give a fail example of someone wanting to euthanise their mum (?) And conflate the messiness of slaughtering by cutting of jugular vein as being much more painful for the animal. This is slaughter on an industrial scale, you cant put every chicken in a nice bed, stroke its beak and sooth it to sleep and kill it."
you somehow manage to completely miss the point in unbelievable fashion. no muslim would ever endorse the euthanising of a dying family member by severing of the arteries followed by hemorrhaging to death. another red herring. probably due to deliberate disingenuous misdirection as opposed to genuine stupidity.
"You speak of scientific journals yet there isnt a consensus that halal slaughter is cruel and painful, in fact Ive read some which speak fondly of it & kosher."
and who were they funded by? you can find historians that deny the armenian genocide which all credible historians know for a fact happened, and they do it because their work is funded by the turkish government. they sell their credibility for dirty money
the consensus of independent, unbiased research is that religious slaughter is cruel and barbaric. there is no getting around this very obvious fact.
"Oh yea, i forgot kosher is usually ignored even though the processes are similar because it isnt done by muslims and Islamic injunctions."
all slaughter that entails the animal being conscious and experiencing its own visceral, bloody death, is cruel and barbaric.
"Regardless, Im sure you will throw around some big words and supposed 'fallacies' Ive commited from words you learnt on wikipedia."
absolutely. your comments are rife with fallacious nonsense. you do not address the actual issues raised. the closest you came was to outright deny the scientific consensus, which is typical of muslims. they do the same with evolution. they do the same with history too, like the armenian genocide. they also love to deny what muhammad did (sex with children, brutal warmongering), even though it is recorded in the sunnah, they still deny it. quite pathetic really.
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***** "i have no idea why a lot of american looks like "love in front of hate" muslim and islam peoples"
because islam is awful and some of the muslims that adhere to it are pieces of shit.
"+Volound before you confront me, i must explain the way we slaughter animals(thus i not really like meats)."
no point. my understanding is better than any muslim, as i actually know what happens without the addition of religious wishful thinking. i already know what muslims think about dhabibah.
"1. the slaughterma and who holds the animal must have no fear to blood"
this is stupid.
"2. the slaughtering knife must be very sharp, so the animal didnt feel so much hurt"
the real suffering results from the terror of drowning on your own blood.
"3. if possible fasten the slaughtering process"
by slitting the throat. genius. halal slaughter is the slowest and most cruel method of slaughter.
"4. the animal must be fatty and healty, its very prohibbited to slaughter sick animal (wich is a lot of industrial-scale slaughter house(not only americans, indonesians too) didnt care a lot)"
this makes no sense.
"5. the animal called halal if the slaughterman already cutted these three channels
1. mouth channel(where food goes in)
2. breathhing channel
3. main artery
if the slaughterman didnt cut them, its not slaughtered animal, its a carcass"
religious woo-woo.
"i didnt gave any opinion about slaughtering, or anything about, i just show my way to slaughter animal, the best way i ever know."
21st century civilised societies have a better way - the penetrating captive bolt.
"EDIT: oh, i didnt notice if you are an atheist, its uselsess now, but i'll not remove it, since it will help other people who want to know about it"
i recommend other people read an objective source, and not the apologetics of a religious person defending their religious barbarism.
"More EDIT(Sorry): +Volound , so i just take the point of you.
you are a fucking moron human who didnt have any kind of respect o other religion and only think about yourself and you do gaming about i think ghosts wich is actually there and i think you not belive it thus i just imagined when you at school with full of religioned-kids who have their own way, combining it, and they life in peace, instead you, confronting them.
remember voloud, "one stupid and moron human never gonna win, but 1000 stupid human would, and you have no support here, now, if you want to be safe now, reply this and say this
"i'm sorry, and i swear i'll not do it again, never ever, and if i broke my promise, i'll diied by truck full of chiken's blood hitting me near golden bridge"
almost 98% of atheist didnt want to swear because they Have-fear-if-his/her-swear-happends. and about study, what study you mean?, there's a lot of study that says atheist is more easy to be fooled and get high blood pressure."
this is why religion is bad for people. there is absolutely nothing i can say that will do justice to how absolutely crazy and mentally deficient you look. going to just be glad that this is recorded somewhere in case you delete your comment out of shame in a few years. absolutely miserable.
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Ibrahim Miya "as a fact, there is nothing disliking about halal."
halal causes immense amounts of sadistic suffering on the basis of religious superstition.
"Halal is simply misunderstood by many basically due to biases, prejudices, and hatred."
so the entire scientific community is wrong.
"Halal is the healthiest source of products you can ever use."
just like zamzam water, which is loaded with arsenic and plenty of other heavy metals? fuck off.
"It I s not only restricted to slaughtering animals, but it extend to anything you can safely use that gives you highest level of safety and health benefits. Things such as dangerous drugs, alcaholism and many more;"
handwaving.
"we all agree that those are dangerous not only to the person using them, but to everyone around them. Do you think all the shootings, suicides, rapes...that are happening in the western world have no contributory factors?"
equivocating religious slaughter with asceticism.
"What's leading people into committing such crimes despite the abundance at the possession, are mainly the non-halal things people force unto themselves."
equivocation.
"Stay HALAL, Stay pure, natural, and healthy; and you'll be much happier with yourself."
happiness metrics are rock-bottom in islamic countries whereas in the west where we engage in meaningless hedonism, happiness is highest. your statements are inconsistent with reality. islam (religiosity on the whole) correlates strongly with misery and suffering. most failed, backwards societies in the world today are islamic.
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dunnowy123 "No, it often tastes fresher"
placebo. it isnt.
"and I notice non-halal meat has a smell to it because of the blood."
as i explained, the blood is drained in both cases. this is nonsense.
"How it it tortured?"
read the fucking thead.
"The whole point is to slit the throat and kill it quickly."
the whole point is that the animal is awake while it endures the trauma that causes it to die. read the thread. captive stun bolt is what people use when they want to kill it quickly without regard for superstition. read the thread.
"That's the opposite of torture."
killing it as quickly and painlessly as possible is the opposite of halal, which is torture by definition for the sake of superstition.
"Will it not work EVERY time? Maybe. But, so what?"
so you are condoning unnecessary suffering and are a piece of shit.
"Your in the business of slaughtering animals, it's not supposed to be easy."
it is though. we have had the utility of painless mechanisms for a very long time. captive stun bolt.
"And...even if the far right does take power in the UK (BTW, how many seats do they have again?) the political backlash would be enormous. No way that's happening."
the right has taken over the whole of europe, barring maybe some of scandinavia, but that is also changing. have you not been paying attention?
"In any case, you might as well ban meat all together, because it's all the same shit."
false equivalency. in one case, an animal has a completely painless death, and in the other, an animal drowns in its own blood while it flails around frantically, experiencing an intense fight-or-flight response after having its arteries and trachea severed.
"I'd rather advocate for the right of people to eat the meat their religion dictates that the "welfare" (and I put that in quotations because it's dubious) of animals."
then you are just a shit person. you care more about pandering to pernicious human superstition than you do about welfare.
"I'm sure the Netherlands and Denmark had alternative reasons for the ban and "animal rights" was only incidental."
then you are stupid in addition to being a piece of shit.
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***** "Doesn't matter how you kill an animal, be it stun or ritual, killing an animal is killing an animal."
absolutely disgusting. in that case, we should stop giving morphine to terminal cancer victims. we should just slit their throat and let them drown on their own blood, instead of spending money and time making their death as painless and humane as possible.
if you honest stand by what you wrote, you are a disgusting, benighted piece of shit.
"I think everyone should just stop eating meat and this problem will be solved once and for all."
eating meat has utility. some people need to eat meat or else they start passing out while walking down the street. babies die because they suckle from their vegan mother and the breast milk is extremely thin and lacks what the baby needs, because the mother does not eat animal products. for some people, not eating meat at all just is not an option.
"Are you ready to give up eating meat Volound?"
how do you know i havent? stop being such a presumptuous, arrogant piece of shit.
"So until you actually give up meat, you really have no say on this matter because the meat you consume is also butchered and the animal dies as a result."
bollocks. does not follow at all.
"Also statistics show that stunning is also not right because there is a 30 percent chance that the animal would not be properly stunned and thus feel pain."
regardless of its drawbacks, the consensus of relevant experts agree that it is much better to pre-stun animals, so that they are not conscious during their deaths. you need to overturn this consensus or else you have nothing to offer.
"If you really cared about the welfare of animals, you wouldn't be buying meat from animals at all. "
bullshit. disgusting nonsense. grow the fuck up.
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Amin Mansour " I'll make this quick. Muhammed is not a veneration because he is dead. Someone like the pope could be considered as a veneration."
you absolute fucking imbecile. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veneration_of_the_dead
"Islam not a cult"
you can say that until you are blue in the face. does not change a thing. you still have all your work ahead of you.
"Third we don't worship Muhammed for the third time"
vapid assertion. all of my arguments stand uncontested.
"Reference the hadith where it mentions the buraq as being a horse."
you ALREADY DID THAT YOURSELF. holy shit you are the thickest fuck to have ever commented on a youtube video.
here is what a "horse" is, you stupid cunt: http://i.imgur.com/vwTM8Dt.png
here is the hadith that you already referenced:
"Then a white animal which was smaller than a mule and bigger than a donkey was brought to me."
mules and donkeys are fucking horses, you absolute clown.
"The hadith you are referring to Muhammed and aishsa consummated the marriage she was age 9. It was arranged at 6. Muhammed didn't marry a six year old you fool."
she was betrothed (pleded to marriage) at the age of 6, and the marriage was consummated when she was 9. muhammad fucked a 9 year old and he decided he wanted to fuck her when she was only 6.
"Show me where in bukhari Muhammed took aishsa away to have sex while she was playing with her dolls."
bukhari is not the only authentic hadith collection. you muslims are so clueless.
http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/muslim/008-smt.php#008.3311
http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/bukhari/073-sbt.php#008.073.151
"No scholar contest homosexuality because it is in the Quran in plain sight"
ALSO IN THE QUR'AN IS WHAT YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH
"Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same): for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy."
http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/065-qmt.php#065.004
the qur'an (good for all times and places) explicitly sanctions sex with children.
"but aishsa age of marriage is a historical analysis not mentioned in Quran and its not a theology concept. All we know that the quran says that you can only marry a person past puberity."
WRONG. ABSOLUTELY WRONG. your knowledge of islam and the qur'an is atrocious. see the above.
"I am saying this hadith needs to be understood with a pinch of salt because numeracy was estimated."
there are myriad hadith that attest to this. all authentic.
"You reference bukhari. Do you know how big bukhari is you fool. Tell me where you fool in bukhari."
again, bukhari is not the only authentic hadith collection. a non-muslim knows islam better than you.
"Don't teach me arabic when I ready know it."
most muslims do not. your knowledge of the qur'an is terrible, so you probably do not know arabic either.
"Read your previous statement and you will see you reffering to one authentic hadith as book."
bullshit.
"No first it doesn't mention the buraq as a horse in any way. It use a example of a donkey to compare it with."
why not a camel? stop making up bullshit excuses.
"To say if something is bigger then X, someone can not then come and conclude the thing as the same as X.Donkey and horses are separate animals. A mule is a cross bread but has a far closer resemblance to a donkey in terms of size."
it had hooves, long ears and a mane, you fucking idiot. in addition to that, it was compared to a donkey and a mule. muhammad was supposed to have ridden it. if a phylogenist were to analyze it, they would put it as a member of the equus genus i.e. a fucking horse. you muslims are pathetic.
""You don't even know Arabic,I bet." Taking that you are a Irish gay gypsy; you must love to bet. Well you would be wrong because I do know arabic, and given that you lost the bet that adds to the strong evidence that proves you are a gay Irish gypsy."
you fucking clown. do you have any idea how fucking retarded you sound?
"The difference is Muhammed is a messenger and Alexander is not."
alexander brought more to the world than muhammad, and he actually existed.
"Alexander died in his thirty and Muhammed lived his whole life."
yet alexander had forged the greatest empire of all time by the time he died, and muhammad barely consolidated arabia, the ass-end of the middle east, an empty, dessicated, worthless desert shithole that alexander had no interest in whatsoever. alexander achieved more than muhammad in less time, and did it 1000 years before muhammad.
"If you want military might then Khalid bin whalied can compare because he defeated the Persian empire and brought the byzantine empire on there knees in palestein, Egypt and Syria and he never lost a battle just like Alexander the great."
so he was better than muhammad.
"You are a fool. I don't get rude to people usually but people in the internet now a days seriously turn up in terms of bravery and start getting rude without a single ounce of intellect ."
says the fucking muslim that knows nothing about history, the qur'an, or islam.
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Imron Javed "I think not. The unrecognized economic potential of Iraq has swayed some of the greediest of capitalist corporations for decades.
Look:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/14/iraq-withdrawal-oil-idUSL6E7NC3A920111214"
irrelevant. special pleading. iraq is not the only country with foreign interest in oil. venezuela has MUCH more. iraq is not the only islamic country that is a backwards-ass theocratic islamic shithole. special pleading.
"Yes, this example has value. The USA is the 3rd biggest country in the world, and Indonesia is the 4th biggest country in the world."
the USA has a few percentage points of the total world population. indonesia has even less. cherry picking to draw a correlation. laughable.
"The USA has 14,000 murders a year. Indonesia has barely a 1,000."
This is a very CLEAR correlation."
you dont know what correlation even means. you need to be more serious about how you engage in dialogue if you want to be taken seriously.
"Funny, you 'tu quoque' everyone except yourself, huh? Take your red herrings out of here- "
i am drawing statistical correlations based on an actually valid sample. you are attempting to cherry pick specific countries (america, which is a ridiculous caricature of a state) and indonesia (which is a secular state and terrible example of implemented islam). you need to do better than this if you want to not come off as ridiculously under-equipped for discussion. or disingenuous.
"LOL That's one the most opinionated statements I've ever read being defended as 'a fact'."
fuck off. you are not talking to a fellow child. i can back up everything i say to the complete satisfaction of anyone that is not a disingenuous, religious moron and waste of time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where-to-be-born_Index
"I would also choose Qatar or the UAE over American cities any day. Have you seen Chicago's murder rate? They've nicknamed it 'Chiraq'."
of course you would, you are shilling for islam. you are not capable of giving a fair, reasoned exposition. after all, you are responding to me because i described ritual slaughter as barbaric, which is something that any informed person would agree with.
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Imron Javed the irony is that i agree with pretty much EVERYTHING you say, except from the doctored conclusions that you try to spin from it as a result of your presuppositions.
if you are anything other than a heterosexual, male, sunni muslim - living in islamic countries (including indonesia) is hell. gays and atheists are demonised and murdered by the state. women are relegated to second-class status. minorities like ahmadi are treated as outcasts, like polytheists.
islam is misogynistic, homophobic, medieval, anti-science, anti-progress and is not compatible with a civilised, technological, imminently-spacefaring species that has nuclear weapons. the welfare of domesticated animals is just one example of how islam completely overrides an informed and reasoned, evidence-based approach.
as has been iterated before, there are particular colleges of western universities whose outputs single-handedly exceed that of the entire islamic world. whether islam is the cause, islamic countries are pretty much useless assets to humanity on a global scale. in terms of scientific advancement, muslims and their countries are a waste of food and carbon.
a fact to demonstrate how miserable the "islam effect" actually is - a baby born a jew is 40,000 times more likely to win a nobel prize in the sciences than a baby born a muslim. how is that for a correlation?
take your example of india. that shirking polytheistic state has a massive trove of physicists and mathematicians that are contributing to scientific and technological advancements all over the academic world. this is not the case with indonesia, or any other muslim-majority state, for that matter.
there is not a single muslim-majority state that is not disgusting in the way it treats anyone that does not adhere to its prescribed ideal of a heterosexual, male, majority-sect adherent.
in the US, citizens kill each other. in islamic states, the state imprisons and murders its own citizens via stoning and throwing off of cliffs.
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