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Comments by "Regis" (@Timbo5000) on "How to Ideologically undermine Holocaust Denialism" video.
"What's the final solution to the bourgeoisie question?" Hahaha, great
70
Democratic socialists are not socialists. Socialism is a revolutionary, anti-capitalist system. Socialism and capitalism can't co-exist under the same system. Democratic socialists are essentially just called socialists, but really they are capitalists in favour of more leftist policies and not full-on socialists. Socialism is the collective control of the means of production so that the use of the means of production in theory benefits everyone. Capitalism is the individual/private control of the menas of production and the use of it to generate personal profit. Socialism as a system is fundamentally against capitalism, it was literally created to stop the owners of the means of production from using the labour of the working class to generate free money. They see that as exploitation because the workers get less money than their work is worth and the owner of f.e. a factory walks away with the leftover money. Capitalistic socialists are only socialist in name, in truth they are just more left leaning capitalists.
10
@MrCarpelan Not really. The ideological reason for placing dissidents in concentration camps was the same for both ideologies. The collectivisation of society for one group meant killing or enslaving dissidents. For the Marxist proletariat this means killing or placing in a concentration camp anyone who opposed the rule of the working class (part of this was eradicating the bourgeoisie) and for the Nazi government this means killing or placing in a concentration camp anyone who opposed the rule of the German race. The problem with the Nazi counterpart is that the EXISTENCE of other races in Germany was already seen as an opposition to the rule of the German race, so while in the USSR this ideology meant getting rid of political dissidents, in Nazi Germany this meant killing or placing in a concentration camp an entire race and more. So yes, National Socialism is much more nasty (at least under the USSR, you could switch your support to the working class rule, you cannot switch your race), but no that does not mean the ideological background for doing what they did were not the same.
7
That is becaise the social democrats are not socialists, the Nordic countries are capitalist as everything in the west is. Socialism is a completely separate system from capitalism that seeks to abolish capitalism altogether. The social democrats are just more social capitalists, not full blown socialists that want a USSR-like system. When talking about socialism here, we speak of the ideology and econonomic system, not socialist as we know them in democratic/capitalist systems. Unless your social democrats want a literal revolution overthrowing the current capitalist system, they are not socialists. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
4
@mitchellline4242 Hmmm well then he is wrong. While he is correct about the similarities between NS and Marxism, he also should recognise that there are large differences between Marxist Socialism and National Socialism, even though they can both be called Socialism. Mainly class struggle vs class collaboration.
2
You can if you split elements of society in different separate scales.
1
@mitchellline4242 Yeah but TIK seems to be mainly talking about one element of the spectrum: collectivism versus individualism. And yes, both NS and Marxism are far left on that scale, for the exact same ideological reasons (their shared anti-capitalist sentiments and desire for collectivist control over the means of production). In other areas the two ideologies differ greatly, for example the egalitarian nature of Marxist society versus the focus on hierarchy in fascism in general and preservation of the classes. In this regard Fascism is far right and Marxism far left. But because the question at hand is whether both are socialist, it suffices to show that both want a socialist revolution of the economic system (if we define socialism as the collectivist takeover of the means of production so as to ensure it is used in the interest of the group instead of the individuals they see as exploitators).
1
Socialism IS the revolutionary extreme. Communism is just the utopia the socialists aim for, not a separate ideology. Socialism is about getting rid of capitalism by revolutionarily changing the economic system. And yes, according to the idea of class struggle the interests of classes are inherently counter to one another and one class must therefore eradicate the other and take full control of society: the proletariat working class. Under Socialism the working class has gained full control of the economy and is self-governing and anyone who disagrees with that is summarily killed or thrown in the gulag concentration camp. Socialism is the removal of other classes from society so that the working class is the only one that remains. NatSoc is even worse because it's this but with race (you can at least switch support for classes, but not race)
1