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  294.  @nestorv7627  You asked how capitalism and workers rights are at odds with each other. The important thing to keep in mind is that "true capitalism" is rarely scene in the world, pretty much every country, including the US, is a balance of capitalism and socialism, like cutting a stiff drink with something milder. Pure capitalism is at odds with human rights because human rights do not benefit capital. Human rights are expensive, and if you can avoid paying for them and still make the same profits, then raw capitalism would avoid paying for them. There is no benefit to capitalism for having human rights beyond the absolute minimum to sustain their needed workforce, and the more they can drive that bare minimum down, and the more they can remove human labor from the equation, they will do so, or they will be failing at capitalism. But in most countries, that was attempted over 100 years ago, and riots ensued, resulting in governments imposing limitations on capitalism to ensure certain levels of human rights. The funny thing is, A lot of "pro capitalist" people point at countries like the USSR or Communist China as an example of "evil socialism," when the reality is that they are examples of "evil authoritarianism," and all the bad outcomes that they point to as a result would be no less true of a 100% pure capitalist system than they are in an authoritarian communist system, the only difference is that the "government" at the top of a 100% capitalist system would claim to be a "corporation."
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  410. Laziness is no excuse. Just because it's cheaper to record the same dialog doesn't mean that it's justified. AC shouldn't be a fantasy game, the franchise originally took their historical setting seriously. The only difference between the setting in an AC game and the real world should be the covert activities of the Templars and Assassins behind the scenes of known history. "AC has never been a historical simulation, and when AC fans complain about historical inaccuracy it's usually only when the developers make playable female characters. They're alright with Ancient Aliens creating humanity as a slave race and Assassins being an ancient order of freedom fighters locked in an endless battle with the Knights Templar who are a prehistoric evil conspiracy controlling the world from the shadows, though. At least there are no cooties there." This paragraph betrays a prejudice that's unwarranted. This is not about having a female protagonist, I've been playing as female protagonists in most of the games I've played over the past few years. I bought a PS4 just to play Horizon on. But if you do have a female protagonist in a historical simulation game, the character needs to be portrayed accurately to that time period. A female character can be an exception to rules, she can behave any way she wants, but that society should react to her presence as that society would react. As I said, part of the draw of this series is that it portrays an alternate depiction of history. The entire point of it is that it should be a history that could have happened in our real world, and we were just unaware of certain aspects. This franchise is not and should not be about "fantasy" where the setting is only loosely related to the real world, that is what God of War is for. If Ubisoft wants to make a game like that, they can, but they should call it something other than Assassin's Creed.
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  760.  @tolowokere  Nothing about the bill enforces the rights of parents, it only allows them to interfere with schools that they do not agree with, which should not be their right. The school is not there for them, it's there for the children. One parent does not get to dictate the curriculum for an entire classroom of students. If the parent does not like the curriculum being taught, then they can remove their child from that school, not change how the school is run. And yes, the bill limits discussions of LGBT people in classrooms, which we should agree is wrong. There is no reason why entire swaths of humanity should be considered forbidden from classroom discussions. It should also be pointed out that the language of the bill is intentionally extremely vague, so while you might make arguments that it "doesn't do this," or "shouldn't be used like that," the law itself certainly can and has been used to stifle reasonable discussion. "Age appropriate" carries a lot of weight, since some people would consider even mentioning LGBT people to a child would not be "age appropriate." Also, you missed my point if you thought that I expected her sexual acts to be discussed in class, NOBODY is in favor of that, but if she engages in LGBT activities, then she should not be in favor of legislation that prevents that concept from being socially acceptable to discuss. NOBODY is promoting discussion of sexual acts in young student classes, but discussing LGBT people has nothing whatsoever to do with discussing bedroom activities, and it would be disingenuous to pretend otherwise.
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  1224.  @IlPinnacolo  Of course we have more confidence in predicting the weather three days from now than we have in predicting anything ten years from now, that's not in dispute. But that also does not mean that we don't have enough confidence in the predictions for future decades to act on them. Nobody ended up in worse shape from listening to climate scientists. They are not precise, but they are very useful. And again, you do not need to have confidence in climate predictions down to a fraction of a degree. The results are likely to be off by well more than that, and that's ok. The goal is not to nail the result to within fractions of a degree, the result is that the temperature will be rising, and that this is bad. If the temperature in twenty years is a half of a degree higher or lower than predicted, that really does not matter much, but pretty much everyone agrees that it will be higher than it is today, unless we take steps to change that outcome. Also, I don't have to convince you of anything. You can remain unconvinced. The world will move on with or without your agreement. I would like you to be the sort of person that is convincable on this topic, but there's no guarantee of that, and frankly based on your comments I doubt it's possible. What is correct or not is not defined by what you personally agree to. As to why this process has led to so much prosperity? We are not fully into the "and find out" phase yet. If someone is cold, and they start a fire in their living room, then they will be "the warmest they have ever been" for some amount of time, but eventually that decision will have negative consequences. Right now, the human race is spending millions of years of stored resources. We're burning oil and gas. We're pumping aquifers that take centuries to replenish. We are achieving maximum productivity, but not sustainable productivity. More and more, over time, our efforts to maintain this level of growth will hit roadblocks. The water will cease to be available, the oil will run out, we will need plans for this. More and more land that is currently arable will become impossible to farm. More and more areas that have quality water sources will dry up. Weather will become more chaotic and destructive. Some warm places will become uninhabitably hot. These changes are only getting started and haven't hit their breaking point yet, but we can see that wall quickly approaching.
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  1676. Climate change is a more serious concern than all of those, but it's slow and quiet, so it sneaks up on people, rather than being sharp and sudden like an atomic bomb. Like to compare it to nuclear war, such an exchange would kill a lot more people all at once, but the lasting effects of it would settle down a lot faster than climate change is, and over the next hundreds of years would likely end up killing fewer people. Also, nuclear war is entirely avoidable by just choosing not to have a nuclear war, whereas climate change is happening, and would take significant work to stop. As for AI, it's way too hard to predict how that plays out, but could either be terrible or great. There's really not much anyone's planning to "do" about that though. As for asteroids, a big enough asteroid could do more harm than climate change, but we have a pretty good idea that no such asteroid is heading our way, and hopefully we would be able to stop it if we did. We're putting reasonable effort into that possibility. As for world hunger and disease, climate change is the largest contributing factor in both problems, and that will only become worse as climate change gets worse, so efforts to solve climate change helps solve both. So basically, of all the problems facing the world today, climate change is probably the most significant one to tackle. I don't think it's reasonable to spend ALL our resources on it, and I don't think we need to "pause" all other activities because not everyone would really have anything meaningful to add to climate change research, so it's better they do something else, but we should definitely be spending more than we currently are.
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  1693.  @socratesrocks1513  The models of the past were based on nothing changing in response to them. Things changed in response to them, which gave us some time. It's like if a car is driving toward a wall 100m away at 10m per second, and your models predict that the car will hit that wall in ten seconds, so you hit the brakes, and ten seconds later you still haven't quite hit that wall, it's not because the models were wrong. "The simple fact is, so long as over 50% of CO2 (if it IS an issue and, given it was much higher in the past and we're still here, I'm still not convinced)" I want to make sure you understand something. You do understand that CO2 was NEVER higher than it is now within human history, right? No HUMAN has had to live with as much CO2 as we currently have. There were times in Earth's history in which CO2 was higher, but the plants and animals that were adapted to that world are mostly extinct now, and most creatures currently on earth could not adapt to the conditions that would result from that, particularly not in the places they currently live. Higher CO2 would not likely wipe out ALL life on Earth, but it would be a mass extinction, including most of humanity. "So long as the wealthy put out tons upon tons of CO2 with their private jets and yachts (both excluded from EU CO2 taxes, btw), " Look, it's fair to hate the rich, but all their jets and yachts combined are a drop in the bucket when compared to a single rush hour freeway. It would be nice if they stopped that sort of thing, but it is no excuse for other people to not do what they can. "Appeal to authority instead of argument and facts isn't science, " Pointing to the scientific consensus is not an appeal to authority argument, it is an appeal to data argument. You are the only one making an appeal to authority argument when you cite pet scientists who confirm your biases.
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  1895.  @theclearsounds3911  "An inconvenient truth" was far from the start of anything, it was only a popular presentation on decades of prior science on the topic. The oil industry knew climate change was real and their fault decades before an Inconvenient Truth. The reason "global warming" turned into "climate change" was an attempt to reduce the confusion, because some people out there thought "well, it was snowing in winter, so clearly no global warming," because they could not understand how the climate works. And yes, CO2 is factually pollution. Most things that are pollution exist in nature, and even exist in the human body. What makes things pollution is when they are present in high enough amounts that they cause problems. A little CO2 is good and healthy, we all need a little CO2, the amount we had two hundred years ago. Nobody is talking about removing all CO2 from the world. But too much of anything is unhealthy, too much oxygen is unhealthy, too much water is unhealthy, and certainly too much CO2 is unhealthy, and the current amount of CO2 production is unhealthy, it is more than the Earth can balance out. There have been times when there was higher CO2 in the air, but these periods were less hospitable to human life, so it would not be a good thing to return to those times. Also, some plants grow better at higher CO2 levels, but not when it also raises heat above their comfort levels, or results in droughts. There is no serious scientist who believes that rising CO2 levels will be a good thing on any level. Remember, a 1 degree C temperature rise does not just mean that it will be 1 degree hotter in the summer and 1 degree hotter in the winter than you're used to, it can mean 5-10 degree C temperature shifts in various areas, it can mean an increase in droughts and floods and all sorts of changes to the climate in any given area. It basically means that the places where people live today might become uninhabitable.
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  1897.  @theclearsounds3911  No movie should make you skeptical about an entire field of science. Star Wars didn't make me skeptical about astronomy. Whether the movie got things right or wrong is not particularly relevant to the actual science involved. And no, there are no actual scientists who think that elevated CO2 levels are good. There are people paid by the oil industry to wear white lab coats and say that though, sure. And again, people can die of too much water, it is "poisonous" to people in the wrong doses or methods of application. Just because something exists in nature does not prevent it being a pollutant, what determines whether something is a pollutant is how and where it is distributed. If someone were dumping too much water into an area where it was causing as much destruction as CO2 does, then it could be considered a pollutant. "Climate change is making some places uninhabitable? Would you live on the South Pole? Then don't." The point is that it's making large portions of the existing biosphere uninhabitable. It will make most of the American south uninhabitable. It will make most of central America uninhabitable, pushing their populations north. It will make places where as many as billions of people currently live impossible to live in, so even if you're imagining a best case scenario where the new habitable regions are just as nice as the old ones, they would still be different places, and require a billion people to migrate to these new regions within a generation, rebuilding the infrastructure and lifestyles needed to support such populations, and often crossing international borders to do so. That would be a massive disruption to human life. And again, yes, the climate has changed a lot over billions of years, but it has changed more over the last two hundred years than it has over the past two hundred thousand years. Typically it takes thousands or even millions of years for climate to shift as significantly as it has lately. The faster a change happens, the harder it is to adapt to it. Most animal species are unable to adapt that fast, and would just go extinct, rather than more gradually shifting to a new way of life. It's also important to remember that due to the laws of thermodynamics, it is MUCH easier to warm things than it is to cool them, so if everything got colder, that is much easier to handle than if everything got hotter. For example, if the heat and humidity is high enough, sweating does absolutely nothing, and it becomes impossible to survive without constant air conditioning. Meanwhile, people can live well below zero using only thick clothing.
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  2391.  @tommytwents8764  I never claimed that covid accounted for 50% of all worldwide excess deaths. I claimed, as the data Dr. John himself was inaccurately referencing noted, that there were 706 excess deaths reported in Europe during that specific time period, and that there were also 350 covid deaths during that period, so 50% of that total. Again, No single death is an "excess death" specifically, that is not how "excess deaths" works as a concept, but since covid deaths would not have been predicted from the actuarial models, we can safely subtract them from the excess death totals and what we have is the remaining overage. 356 excess deaths out of 10,000 expected deaths is within any reasonable margin of error, nothing to get worked up about. Even 706 excess deaths would not be any big deal, that sort of thing would happen all the time pre-covid. "Excess deaths" is only something to worry about when they are well above expectations, such as during the summer of 2020, before we had covid vaccines, and US excess deaths were THIRTY THOUSAND deaths higher than expectations. As for Dr. john "mis-speaking," you can tell from the comments that many people, including it seems yourself, were completely fooled by his "mistake," and believed the words he said rather than the statistics he was referencing, even though the words he said were completely wrong. That is misinformation. If you put up a graph of the truth, and then tell people a lie about that graph that leaves them with a belief that is not accurate to the truth, then that is still misinformation. The misinformation is in the final impression that the material leaves behind.
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  2651. The way I think about it is, it took a billion years or more between the point when "life was possible on Earth" and when "we know life existed," which is a REALLY long time. That's "million monkeys writing Shakespeare" time. So a lot of things happened during that billion years that left no record on history, but "life" on some level probably started up millions of times, and then quickly died. And only eventually did life form that was also in the right place and time to thrive, and develop further, and evolve into more complex things. And this probably also occurred several times over this period. And some of those evolved into bigger animals, and eventually one of those attempts at life arrived at a bunch of big animals that were quite strong, and spread all over the oceans, and whenever they encountered a lifeform with a different unique origin, they ate it, and no trace of them was left behind. And then over the last billion years, I expect that unique, base level "life" appeared dozens more times, all over the world, and then was immediately eaten by something a billion years more advanced. It would be like an ant vs. a light saber. So the idea that a bunch of scientists can throw together a petrie dish and stare at it for a few hours, days, years, centuries, and have life emerge in it is absolute nonsense, you could leave that dish alone for a billion years and life might only emerge in it one, and briefly. But the lack of being able to see that happen in real time doesn't mean that it's not possible, or even unlikely in the long run, just that it only occurs over very long periods of time.
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  2719.  @Digger-Nick  It is hard to say what the specific intention of "the majority" of people in the Capitol was, but plenty of them were there with the intent to delay or reverse the certification of Joe Biden, with many of them making specific violent threats against members of Congress and even Mike Pence. If ALL someone was doing was "taking a selfie," then perhaps that is all they will be charged with doing, but that does not reflect the action overall. I'm sure that there were plenty of random idiots in that crowd who had no idea what others were up to, but that does not excuse the actions of the people who were taking their roles very seriously. You should definitely watch the NYT video showing the full timeline of the insurrection. I'm sure you won't trust their editorial because it does not match the narrative you were fed, but the video footage is the video footage, so at least take that all in and make up your own mind. If you can watch that and hold on to the narrative you've been fed by the fake news, then God help you. Also, some people in that group did have guns, and were charged for having them. That they did not shoot anyone was lucky, but a lack of guns does not equate to a lack of insurrection. Kyle Rittenhouse is a right-wing agitator that was illegally carrying an AR-15 at a BLM protest, shot a man in the back, killing him, and then shooting two more as they tried to apprehend him. That is exactly the sort of "violence started by right-wing agitators" that I was talking about. Had he not been there, not been armed, not fired at protesters, no violence would have occurred.
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  3357.  @kaijohnson5033  You're assuming people behave rationally at all time. People do not. I mean, if you could accurately track exactly how the virus passes from one person to the next, and you could tell someone "you know, when you took your mask off for three minutes on this day, you infected two people, who went on to infect a chain of 20,000 people, of which 2,000 were hospitalized and 10 died, and here are their names and pictures of their grieving loved ones, do you wish that maybe you'd kept the mask on?" Most people probably would think that keeping the mask on was a good idea, but the virus is way too abstract, it's impossible to tell exactly how many deaths you are personally responsible for, so people put it out of their mind. Also, when something carries a non-zero, non-100% risk, then "if it can't be zero then it may as well be anything" is not a rational response. People CAN choose to take on SOME risk, while still taking reasonable precautions to MINIMIZE that risk as best they can. If people want to get on a plane because they believe that to be of value to them, they can do that, it does not absolve anyone of taking what reasonable steps they can to reduce risks. If some people are narcissistic sociopaths who only care about themselves, then that is unavoidable, but this is why we make rules, to say "ok, you don't care whether other people live or die if it represents even a minor inconvenience to you, you still need to follow the rule if you want the privilege of riding an airplane."
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  3448.  @jimfarmer7811  Regular trickle down economics is nonsense, because if you give rich people money, they hoard it. But have you never heard of USED CARS? They are a thing. When people have more cars than they need, they sell the old ones, usually for less than the cost of a new car. If you want to buy a new car right now, you can get new EVs that are lower priced than the average new car. If you can't afford a new car and want to buy a used one, you can also buy an EV, and the more new EVs enter the market, the better the pricing on used ones. This isn't "voodoo," it's hard economic fact. And the guy stocking shelves won't need to pay $20K to replace the battery, because the battery it came with will continue to run for 20+ years. They reduce efficiency over time, but not so much that he couldn't get to his job on time. If he ever did have to replace it, it would still be cheaper than what he would be paying for gas in a gasoline car. Now you are right about a lot of apartments not being set up for charging, but that too will change over time. It won't change without investment though. If we waited for "the private sector" to do highways, it would still be dirt roads between most states. The BBB bills involved a lot of investment in charging facilities, and more is needed. Once it's likely that most apartment dwellers have EVs, you can bet that most apartment parking will have charging docks too. Also, what's your creepy obsession with Gore? You do know he's been out of office for over twenty years, right?
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  3585. The way I figure it, puberty blockers and hormones might have lasting long term consequences. But also NOT taking them will have lasting, long term consensuses. If someone wants to grow up to be a woman, and instead "the natural course of things" causes them to grow up with a man's body, that is very hard to "fix" after the fact. Assuming that they continue in their life as a woman, they would be much better off doing so from the start, than doing absolutely nothing until later in life. There is no "neutral state" here, there is no case of "nothing happening," it's always a choice between developing a male body or a female body, regardless of which one would happen if no medical intervention took place, so there is no "burden of proof" that you would need to overcome to choose one over the other. Surgery can generally wait, because those parts are completely non-reversible and won't change over time, but the matter of puberty changes IS something with a time limit on it, and if someone is unable to get such care before puberty takes hold, there will be permanent consequences. That being the case, the only real test to consider is the likelihood that someone will stick with their intended gender. If they are assigned male, and they want to become a woman, and they stick with that and remain a woman for the rest of their life, comfortable in that gender, then the actions they take to affirm that gender will have been justified. It would only be in cases in which they reverse course, and return to being a man (of their own choice), that the affirming care would have been a mistake. So far, such cases seem to be extremely rare, a fraction of a percent of the fraction of a percent of people who even start down that path. Given that the overwhelming majority of those who take significant steps toward transitioning stick with it, then shouldn't that be considered the optimal standard of care? No solution will ALWAYS have positive results, so if the standard is "if anyone regrets their decisions, we can't allow it," then NO medicine would take place, but if the standard is "the outcome in which most participants are satisfied with the results," then I don't think any argument can be made against gender affirming care.
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  3774. I think that in less than 100 years, we will not just lose 30% of jobs, but 99.99% of jobs. Pretty much anything a person can do, a machine will be able to do cheaper, so the only people with jobs will be those at the absolute peak of the food chain. Those people wouldn't be technically necessary either, but since they would be in control of what gets done, they would likely insist on retaining their own jobs. Capitalism has worked fine through the 20th century, but if allowed to proceed unchecked, there would become absolutely no reason for those at the top to even CARE about anyone other than themselves. They could just live on private estates someplace, supported by 100% mechanical industry, and let the rest of the world's population go to rot. So that's plan A, and I'm not a fan. Plan B would have to involve some degree of "welfare," some sort of "income as a basic human right," rather than paying people for the amount of benefit they bring into the world. It would not be paying people for their effort, because their effort would be pointless in the machine age, it would just be paying people because to do otherwise would be inhumane. I don't believe in a resource-less economy because while it might take care of everyone's basic needs, every person is different, every person will value different things over others. People might only have a fixed amount of water that they "need" in a day, but those who prefer long showers might want the option to pay extra out of their allowance to get more water than most, at the expense of having less new clothes, or less fancy food, or whatever matters to them slightly less. I think there needs to be some way of tracking trade-offs, so that each person can adjust their life experience to best fit their tastes, without anyone taking more out of the system than anyone else (this is assuming that we still have any degree of scarcity that would require any level of moderation).
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  3982.  @tolowokere  To your point 1, no, a parent should not automatically have more rights over their child than their school. The CHILD's welbeing ALWAYS takes priority, so if the parent is acting against the child's best interests and the school is willing and able to better support that child, then the school should be allowed to do so. Again,. it is ALWAYS about the child's welbeing. The bill does not "make allowances" in any sense, it is deliberately designed to put teachers at as much threat as possible. 2. While I agree that parents can protest certain curriculum, that should be a rational discussion with the teachers, principles, and school board, in which the parent does not necessarily get their way, particularly if they are overruled by other parents in the class. The powers granted by that bill go WAY too far in allowing individual parents to dictate the rules everyone else must follow. To point 3, it would be nice if that were the case, but the way the current law was written, there are NO such assumptions that could be made. "Tommy has two daddies" would allow a parent to sue the teacher who said it. 4. The example you gave would be one. Just disucussions that sometimes men marry each other, love each other in the same way that men and women might love each other. NOBODY is promoting discussions of the mechanics of sex prior to sex ed classes. There could also be discussions about transgender people, where it comes up. 5. You don't have to describe your threesomes to your children, but neither should you be implying to them that LGBT behavior would be morally wrong, while engaging in it yourself. Your examples are overblown, and often just books that were included in high school libraries, certainly not books recommended to or even available to elementary students. I don't doubt that sometimes mistakes are made, and that books that appear innocuous might contain some explicit content, but of all the books recommended for banning, very few of them actually end up getting removed by a reasonable process.
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  3990.  @ananse77  You say I throw out "ridiculous strawmen," but then you say "Many people are trying to teach about sex and sexuality in schools." What would that be other than a strawman? Nobody is try to teach about sex in schools, at least to younger age groups than traditionally get sex ed classes. As I said to that other person, occasionally a book that is more explicit than it should be ends up in a library, more typically at the high school level than the elementary school one, and if we kept it to ONLY such books then I don't think there would be too much pushback, but those who seek to ban books often include FAR less clear cases than that, in many cases citing a book with NO explicit content whatsoever, only because it has an LGBT or minority author. That obviously has nothing to do with discussions around the concept of LGBT people though, any more than that you can't talk to younger children about what a "man" or "woman" is because you don't want to talk about "how sex works." The two topics are unrelated. You don't teach how sex works between two LGBT people, but you do have age appropriate discussions around the existence of people who love members of the same sex, or who have a gender that is distinct from their biological sex. That is part of "tolerating and respecting ALL people, " and your own comments violate the lessons you say they should be taught. "I listed several parental rights, none of which were a "right to harm". I even pointed out that schools have an important DUTY to report cases of abuse and neglect." Then we have no point of conflict on that topic. The Florida law would interfere in that process, by preventing teachers from getting involved in cases where parents were causing harm to their LGBT children. That is something many view as being a problem.
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  3993.  @tolowokere  A child is not a pet, a child is not property, birthing a child does not give parents rights to do whatever they want to that child. Birthing a child is a responsibility, not a gift. The parent is responsible for raising that kid to be as healthy and happy as possible, they are not allowed to create whatever sort of fiasco they want. Children are incapable of fully thinking for themselves in a mature way, and nobody is talking about giving final decision-making rights to children, adults do need to have ultimate decision-making responsibility until they reach maturity, but that adult does not necessarily need to be a parent, IF their parents have shown a failure to parent responsibly. For example if parents have a religious exception to modern medicine, and their child would die without getting treatment, then that parent's wishes should be overruled by other adults in the room to ensure that the child is protected. To your point 5, NOBODY wants to discuss sexual behavior with children. I do not understand why people keep bringing that up in this thread as though it is something ANYONE is advocating for. Can you explain that one to me? To your point 6, again, having not read the specific works in question, I can take at face value that those specific examples should not be in a school library, at least not below the high school level, and perhaps not even then. I don't believe they were added with any malice though, they were probably just not fully read by the staff and added because they were popular with students or something. Mistakes happen. My point was that such examples are extremely RARE though, exceptions to the rule, and represent a tiny minority of the books being targeted by conservative activists over the past few years. The overwhelming majority of the books being targeted contain no such explicit content. The efforts are opposing the general trend of book banning, not necessarily defending every single book. Also, I hate to tell you, but if a kid has reached the 7th grade without encountering F-bombs then they are going to be shocked to find out that indoor plumbing exists. 7th grade is also typically after sex education classes which would have already discussed such topics.
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  3996.  @Zoetherat  "What I’m saying is that you do not speak for minority groups, and you do not have the right to claim that your opinions equate to being “for” that minority group, " I am speaking for those that need help. I certainly don't speak for all trans people, but I do speak in favor of policies that would improve the lives of all trans people, and that would harm no one, so why not just do that? Certainly anyone who opposes those policies would oppose that entire group, even if portions of that group were complicit in that opposition. "It's a framework that assumes the progressive position on any issue must automatically be right." Not exactly, it just turns out that the progressive position tends to be right, because the conservative position tends to be "nuh uh!" to any data that they do not like. The Progressive position does not come out of nowhere, it is the one based on following where the scientific evidence leads on a subject. The conservative position is almost never right, once events have fully played out. How ya'll doing on Jim Crowe? So TL;DR, correlation does not equal causation. Progressive viewpoints are not right because they are progressive viewpoints, they are progressive viewpoints because they are right. "You can find plenty of interviews with people who detransitioned on youtube for whom it obviously caused harm. " And for each of those you can find a hundred videos of people who transitioned and benefited greatly from it. Conservatives like to point to detransitioning as if it "debunks" gender affirming care, but it is extremely uncommon, the overwhelming majority of people who transition never look back, so which would be the better outcome, preventing as many transitions as possible, to try to reduce the risks of an occasional detransition, or support people as best we can, to maximize the amount of people who have happily transitioned? Besides which, if we are talking about children, NOBODY supports fully transitioning at a very young age. It's a process, and the more permanent factors of it are not medically recommended until the person is at or very near adulthood. If they spend a few years experimenting with their identity and decide that they don't want to transition, no harm, no foul, they can just go back to how they were. "Affirming" a child does not mean rushing them off to a surgical theater. "However, making an argument from authority selectively (using American institutions that agree with you while ignoring European ones that don’t), is not the same as “following the stance of the medical science on the topic”. " Would you concede that even the "European approach" that you cite is FAR to the left of the "what American conservatives want" approach?" I don't personally have a problem with either the American or European approach, so long as each has their own rational basis, but I do believe it's important to support the child, rather than taking the stance I've often heard from conservatives that they should be bullied into giving up on the whole idea, at least until they are fully adults and/or can run away from home. "In any case, if there’s one thing this discussion hopefully did, it’s demonstrate that believing you shouldn’t give children free rein to self diagnose themselves into sex changes doesn’t mean you hate gays. Then again, you seem like a very dogmatic person, so maybe it didn’t change your mind on anything." You didn't tell me anything I hadn't heard going into this discussion. I don't automatically agree with every single position that comes from the left on these topics, but I certainly believe they are far closer to the ideal path than anyone coming at it from the right. Nobody can see into the future, but the left path is the one most likely to lead to the best outcome for the greatest number, so it's the one I support. This tends to be the case on most topics.
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  4435.  @wothin  >They are not socialist. Of course they are. And you haven't even made a case why modern Europe would be going after socialist countries in the first place. >People will always judge. Russia also claimed that in annexed Crimea based on humanitarian concerns. The point of pretext is so that one has plausible deniability. Pretext does not add or remove plausible deniability. If the pretext is a valid one, like an actual humanitarian crisis, and the result is that you leave the country better than you found it, then that's fine. If the prexted is some imaginary humanitarian crisis that nobody actually believes existed in the first place, and the result is that you've annexed the country for your own purposes and its conveniently placed sea port, nobody cares that you attempted a pretext. The pretext is irrelevant if it is not valid. It's like throwing a sheet over an elephant and asking people to guess "what could be under there?!" >And yet you protect the USA in their irrational paranoia in case the Cuban missile crisis. Hypocrite is being hypocritical. Different situation, different outcome. There was no paranoia to the US response to the Cuban missile crisis. It was just a different scenario. >Yes Russia is destabilizing things. So what now? The goal should be that in the long term Europe is stable and peaceful. And that's a fair goal, but it can't come at the cost of Russia gaining ground via aggression. Every act of aggression they take must be met with a higher cost, otherwise they will just keep taking two steps forward, one step back "just to stabilize things," and they're still one step ahead of where they were. They still haven't given Crimea back. They still have not pulled out of Eastern Ukraine, and now they are threatening more violence. They need to give back what they have taken if they expect the west to give them any concessions. They haven't even offered to do so. >To give you an extreme analogy, that's like escalating up to a nuclear war and then being happy that it was the "other's" fault, while millions of people died from nuclear war and many are dying because of nuclear fallout. It's like you don't care about the damage from the escalation, you only care about your pride and the false sense of being right. So to continue your analogy, how far is too far, to prevent Putin from unilaterally starting a nuclear apocalypse? Say he takes Ukraine. "No big deal, better to be stable?" And then maybe Lithuania? Not that big a deal, right? Latvia, Estonia? Finland maybe? Sweden, better pick up Norway just to complete the set. Poland, Romania, Hungary, let's leave the Balkans alone for now, but Turkey might be nice. Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, at what point is "stability" not worth saying "maybe don't do that?" We all want to avoid a war, but Putin is the one starting wars. We all want to avoid a nuclear apocalypse, but you can be damned sure that the west won't fire that first nuke. Just because Russia has nuclear weapons and might be crazy enough to use them, that's no reason to give in to their demands. If anything it's a good reason NOT to, because anyone that you fear might use nukes to get their way, is someone you can't trust with any more authority than you have to. >Yes, but can you realistically throw Vladimir in jail without suffering massive damage yourself? No, you can't. It's all cute that you act on principles, but the real world does not work like that. Ok, you've established where you stand. I can barely see you down there. >We talked about the Baltics. You apparently find it totally justified for them to be afraid of Russia invading them back then when they joined NATO. I never claimed that they were justified in being afraid of Russia invading them when they joined NATO. What would that have to do with anything? NATO used to be about the USSR, but since the fall of the Soviet Union it has nothing to do with Russia, aside from Russia wanting it to be about them for some reason. The Baltics joined NATO because it's generally a good club to be in, not because they had any fear of Russia specifically. >Yet you conveniently don't care that the West invaded Russia around the same time ago, with much bigger casualties. Yes, because, again, that was before most of our lifetimes and completely irrelevant to modern geopolitics. >Again, whether you personally think something is justified has no relevance. But my position more closely aligns with that of the rest of the world on the matter, and what the world personally thinks about things matters very much. Again, a bully can get away with a lot by throwing his violence around, but he will always be viewed as a bully, and treated as a bully, and that is not how you make friends. If Russia was less of a bully, maybe all their neighbors wouldn't prefer being friends with Europe.
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  4779.  @saxor96  Again, though, "triggering dopamine" is what games do. Plenty of games, many made before microtransactions, many of them after without any significant microtransactions, use the exact same mechanics to engage players. You can't make these "patterns" illegal without wiping out most of the games on the market. Again, gacha players with legitimate addiction issues are a drop in the bucket. It's not rational to throw out the entire industry just to babyproof games for these few individuals. If they can't handle these sorts of games, then the burden is on them not to play them. If they can't stop themselves from playing these games, then even if these games did not exist, they would be incapable of stopping themselves from playing other forms of gambling that are also available. Also, as regard to skipping, you've got it all wrong. At least in the games worth caring about. They are NOT making the game boring or tedious, because if they did that then people would stop playing it. They need to make the game fun to play on its default setting. But it takes investment to play at that setting, it requires that you play every day, or play many hours a week, to build the resources to level your account. This should not be "boring," because, again, then players would burn out, but it is an investment that not everyone has the time or interest to make. In which case, money can be a substitute, and broadly this works out for all involved. The spenders can advance their accounts with far less time investment, and the F2Ps get access to a much more significant game than could exist without some motivation for people to spend on it. It's a balancing act, to be sure, and not every game gets this balance right, but those that do are some of the best in the industry. In terms of outcomes, this is little different than comparing two different families making a family trip, one of whom spends little to drive cross country, while the other spends considerably more to fly. They reach the same destination and have the same fun there, and the former family might actually have a lot of additional fun in making the trip, but the latter family can get there faster and with less hassle.
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  4855.  @eduardopena5893  Well the points of entry are the only parts of the border that are not currently closed. All other parts of the border are closed and always have been. Anyone attempting to cross those borders is caught and processed. If you don't mean closing those open ports of entry, then what could "close the border" mean, outside of some sort of magical glass dome? And no, drugs are not smuggled across the desert regions, they are smuggled through those legal ports of entry. If anyone tries to smuggle drugs through the desert areas, they will get apprehended by border patrol. The only people crossing through those areas are people attempting to immigrate to this country. The cartels do have a lot of interaction with those folks, but only to take advantage of how poorly designed the US immigration process has been. If people could just cross at legal ports of entry and get processed that way, the cartels would have no roll to play, but the need for them to sneak outside of the ports of entry and to "wait in Mexico" for extended periods of time give cartels plenty of opportunity to prey on them. You are flat wrong about most terrorist attacks coming from outsiders. Check with the FBI on that one. And no, Democrats do not want unfettered entry and instant citizenship, that is just what Faux News tells you to think so that they can control you through fear of the other. It's a sad manipulation tactic. All Democrats want is humane treatment of migrants, that they are not rounded up and put in cages. Democrats tend to support a path to citizenship for undocumented children, but it would take longer than the traditional nationalization process, far from "instant." We have a "legal process," but for decades now that process has lagged further and further behind demand from both migrants AND American businesses, so the amount of legal immigration slots needed is far higher than the amount allowed. It is Republicans that have long resisted any effort to fix this, because, again, they prefer you to be afraid of the evil border. If we want to fix the border, we would need to massively increase the amount of legal immigration slots available, by this point probably by thousands of times just to make up for the backlog. And no, this is not Biden's fault and Trump's policies were not actually solutions. That is just what Faux News tells you to believe. The same number of people would be trying to cross now regardless of who the US president was or what his policies are, all that matters is how we treat them when they show up. Also, people who cross illegally ARE deported, but we have due process in this country, which means they get their day in court, and Republican efforts to defund border judges have led to massive backlogs, slowing down this process.
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  4925.  @nicholasferrante1296  How many work form 7-7? Too damned many. There are millions of people who have to work two or more jobs, and work more than 12 hours a day. And that doesn't even factor in other responsibilities they might have, such as getting a child to and from school or day care, preparing meals for the family, or if they work at night, being able to sleep during the day. It doesn't harm anything to have polling places open 24 hours to give these people maximum opportunity to vote. I can understand why you wouldn't mandate 24 hour voting accessibility, maybe your community doesn't need that, but why would anyone make it ILLEGAL to offer that service if your local area feels it would be beneficial? Who does that help? You don't "prove that nobody is being suppressed" by making the case that "the obstacles can still be overcome, maybe." That's not good enough. If there are obstacles being placed, that is suppression, even If those obstacles can be overcome. Some obstacles are necessary, but nobody has been able to make a case that these are, so ALL they can achieve is to REDUCE people's access to vote, and that is suppression, and that is unAmerican. And again, there is no such law in the Texas State constitution. The Texas constitution says that the legislature can send police to round up and detain members of the legislature to form a quorum, but it is not illegal for the legislators to avoid this, it is not a crime that they can ever be charged with. They cannot be charged of anything, they cannot be convicted of anything, they can only be captured, transported, and detained, separate from the legal process.
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  4932.  @nicholasferrante1296  If it is an inconvenience significant enough to turn people away from the polls, then obviously it is suppression. Some inconveniences are necessary, but NONE of the inconveniences in the Texas bill are. What is the necessity in banning 24 hour voting? Who does that help? What problems does that prevent? Why do that, if NOT to make it harder for people to vote? "We now have drop boxes, no excuse absentee ballots and early voting, none of which existed where I first became eligible to vote." and not for long if Republicans have any say in the matter. This is the point. We should be making it easier to vote, we should be aiming to get EVERY eligible voter to the polls. The 2020 election had the highest voter turnout in a long time, and we should be celebrating that. Instead, Republicans seem to be taking that as a sign to panic, and roll back all the gains we've made over the years, because they recognize that the majority of voters no longer support their ideas, and that they can only vote if they limit the amount of people who can get to the polls. Remember that what to you might be "a little inconvenience," might be to others "something that makes it impossible." And that is by design. If you limit voting hours, for example, then that might just be "a little inconvenience" in an area with plenty of polling places, where you can just stand in line for a few minutes and cast your vote, but in other places, coincidentally places with higher Democratic turnout, they have fewer polling places per citizen, so the lines last for hours, and in that case you might not be able to fit those hours into your busy schedule, so voting ceases to be an option. Again, WHY? Why is that a thing, if NOT to cause fewer to people vote?
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  5401. If I was going to colonize an asteroid like that, I would use a "worm coring" method. I would build a toroid spinning habitat on one end of it, providing an artificial gravity environment. Then I would use standard mining equipment to dig a massive tunnel straight through the center to the other side. This tunnel would be capped at both ends and linked to the existing station, but at first would be a zero-G environment. Then I would head to the middle of this tunnel, and slowly start to expand outwards, taking a cylindrical chunk out of the middle, big enough around to make another cylindrical habitat that could be spun up to comfortable gravity. Once that's going, colonists would have two places to get in some gravity exercise, but still the tunnel would be zero-G. Then you just expand outward from the center, clearing more space and adding more spinning habitat until you have plenty of space for the people to spend most of their time in the gravity areas. Once you have most of the asteroid hollowed to this level, assuming there is more room to expand towards the surface, you do so, slowing down the spinning components and moving new housing into outer rings as necessary, until eventually the whole thing is mostly hollow. Since the spinning components would all be engineered for durability rather than natural, it shouldn't break up. The benefit to this over just building a giant O'Neill cylinder from scratch is that 1. you would be able to constantly mine the asteroid through the development process, making it a revenue-producer from day one rather than a complete money pit until mostly completed, and 2. the rocky shell should provide a strong defense against radiation and impacts, like coating an O'Neill cylinder with massive amounts of armor.
    1
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  5403. Interesting point about mistakes, but I do think it just tends to boil down to "everything is because some writer said so." Writers don't set up situations where the die roll is a critical fail so they just scrap the whole idea. If a character makes a mistake, it's not happenstance, it's because the writer made him make a mistake, and writers just don't seem to do that very often. They don't set up situations only to then defuse that situation by an error, unless that error brings greater meaning to the plot. It's like Chekhov's gun, you don't show the gun unless you intend to use it, you don't have the character make a mistake unless there's some larger point to the mistake. Characters do make mistakes fairly often though, if there's a reason. Stragely, Naruto actually does a solid job of countering a few of your points in this one (not that it invalidates them in general, just that it defies them). Tsunade is the 4th Hokage, and while it could be argued that Naruto sometimes sidelines her as the hero does, she is in charge, and while she exhibits masculine traits like massive physical strength, when it comes down to it her most effective role on the battlefield is as a healer. Likewise, Naruto often makes mistakes, like when he had a big showstopper new attack that he was using for the first time in combat, but on the first attempt it sputtered out completely, forcing everyone to regroup and try again. If not for that, the fight would have been practically over at that point.
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  5538.  @paulbarclay4114  Any "researcher" you can find to back your position is just copy-pasting the same conspiracy theory nonsense and is completely discredited. But people choose to believe them anyway because they prefer the lie that agrees with their own worldview to a truth that is scary and inconvenient. You are just another obvious troll. You are either too dumb to realize you are being told what to think, thinking it and then telling other people to think it because its what you think you think, or you are even worse, a disinformation agent. Either way you have not said one thing that cannot be easily refuted, and it's not even worth responding to. Paul Barclay Paul Barclay 4 hours ago @Tim Ogul You are just copy pasting the garbage conventional narrative for every "researcher" you are referencing I can show you PHDs from around the world who will totally refute your garbage narrative. You are just another obvious troll. You are either too dumb to realize you are being told what to think, thinking it and then telling other people to think it because its what you think you think, or you are even worse, a disinformation agent. Either way you have not said one thing that cannot be easily refuted, and it's not even worth responding to. You aren't worth the effort. As soon as you spout conspiracy theories, you automatically disqualify yourself from any discourse. But let's try it anyway. So you say that I should find Steven Quay impressive because he founded a therapeutics company. One that seems to be delivering snake-oil "treatments" to covid and breast cancer, without any reputable results. I'm sure he would have nothing to gain by becoming a "hero" to the types of people who chase snake-oil treatments rather than "main stream" drugs that actually work. Worked out for the My Pillow guy. It certainly had nothing to do with how his article came out right as his companies stocks were tumbling because their flagship drug failed its clinical trials. And Richard Muller isn't even a medical researcher, he's a Physicist. Quay may have a PHD in biology, and may know a lot more than I do, but I'm not putting my own expertise against his, nor should you. I'm putting the expertise of thousands of OTHER experts in the field, each with equal or higher credentials,m who DISAGREE with his conclusions. You can pick an idea out of a hat, and I'm sure you could find at least one person out there with a diploma who would support that position, that does not make it right. That is not science. The science involves actual research in the fields, and a consensus viewpoint that a significant amount of the scientific community agrees is true. Keith Grehan and Natalie Kingston wrote an article debunking his general claims on the subject. If this WERE true, then the scientific community would WIDELY hold this position, and not just the fringe crackpots that run snake-oil companies.
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  5586.  @snoopsnet8150  Nope. Anything government does badly, it's only because the private sector would do it worse. The government's worst failings are when it failed to prevent the private sector from doing something bad.Government isn't perfect, it's just better than all the other options. Big box stores did well during covid not because of big government, it's because they had been allowed to build a near-monopoly level of economic power. Remove government restrictions entirely from the equation, and they still would have done just as well relative to the smaller businesses, because people wanted to limit their exposure, and big box and online retailers were best able to provide that option. The government restrictions did not significantly impact that balance, all they did do was limit the 2020 deaths to 600,000 rather than 1,200,000. Mom and pops were already on their way out, and would have been annihilated decades ago if not for government regulation placing some limits on businesses ability to monopolize. In other countries, with more socialist governments, they have had far more success at limiting the big box stores and allowing family businesses to thrive. Why is that? The top 0.1% didn't get wealthier because of any action on government's part, all government did was funnel some wealth BACK to the 99.9%. The top 0.01% got wealthier because that is all that they do. Government is not perfect, and it can be improved, but out ONLY hope is in continuing to improve government, not in stripping it down for parts. You're being fed massive lies by elite narcissists who only care about money and power and you're regurgitating them like a naive puppet.
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  5632.  @degen83  No, Democrats do care about people and do pass policies that help people more than Republicans, but the nature of politics mean that they can't just magically get everything they want, and often have to compromise with Republicans in ways that lead to less effective results. Also, just because a place is a "blue state" does not mean that Republicans don't hold a lot of local power in certain areas. It's always better to vote for a Democrat than a Republican, but you certainly should try to pick the best available Democrat during the primaries. As for why "Democrat areas" have "more homelessness," part of that is bad faith reporting, since plenty of homeless people live in red areas. Florida has the 2nd highest amount, Texas the 3rd, Arizona, Georgia, and North Carolina are all in the top 15 states for homelessness, and I don't think anyone's accused North Carolina of being "controlled by Democrats," since the Republicans there have supermajorities in just about every body at this point, even if they had to steal elections to do it. Some of it has to do with the weather being better in places like the west coast, so people who are going to be living outside prefer those areas, some of it has to do with the problems in housing availability that I explained earlier (again, not something state government can fix), part of it is because homelessness tends to occur around large cities (since that's where most of the people live) and all large cities happen to be Democratic. If there is any "good" reason why there could be less homelessness in Republican areas, it's because Republicans sometimes drive them off at the point of a stick, but I don't think anyone could take pride in that level of inhumanity, and surely you would prefer to have homeless people clogging your sidewalk than to know that government "cleared" them in your name, right? I suppose I shouldn't assume.
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  5633.  @degen83  It is factually incorrect to claim that in areas where Democrats have significant majorities that they can "do what they want," because there are often other elements at play that tie their hands. I suggest you watch that Wendover video about California, it lays out the various structural issues that make it difficult to get anything done there on certain topics. And again, no Democratic policies encourage homelessness, that is a perfect example of you making a bad faith argument. You didn't point out any "result of Democratic policies," you just pointed to a homelessness problem, and declared that they were "the result of Democratic policies," without drawing ANY actual connection between the two. As for the drug problem, you do know that the drugs come through ports of entry, right? The only way to stop that would be to shut down the border to all traffic, would would obliterate the US economy. The previous president certainly never attempted it, because it would be too stupid, even for him. Seattle is rainy, but also temperate. Rain you can use an umbrella and a tent, it's much better than living in someplace that sees massive snowfalls. And yes, there was a time when Republicans and Democrats could work together. It was not the Democrats that changed, it was all the Republicans. They became more and more insane, from the Teaparty to the MAGA crowd, and they abandoned all common sense and built their party around racism and other forms of bigotry, and seizing power any place they couldn't win elections. Hopefully, they will eventually turn back into a credible party, but they are nowhere near it now, and anyone incapable of recognizing that lacks ANY credibility themselves. You would have to be living in an alternate reality echo chamber to blame any of that on Democrats. Look, it's kind of sad, but you just seem to be giving me a laundry list of Faux News talking points, like you have a teleprompter in your head or something. It's pretty pathetic. Break free of Big Brother, and learn to think for yourself. Find the truth behind all these wacky stories they tell you, it will blow your mind.
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  5636.  @lescobrandon8443  Have you tried looking at the thread in a private window? Sometimes when a post is removed, you can still see your own post there, but nobody else can see it. To the rest of us, I see one post from you that says "Just don't vote for those outside your area," then the next post that's visible says "So, you couldn't counter me?" I should also point out that almost no posts are removed manually, so "neutral tone" really isn't a factor, the mod bots don't care about "tone." It would typically get removed for having certain keywords in it. It's hard ot predict and hits posts from the left, right, or anywhere in between. In general though, nobody has to respond to you, and a failure to respond is not conceding the discussion. This is all entirely voluntary. There's no value in trying to "rush a response," it only makes you seem weaker and more insecure in the value of your position. People who know they are right don't require validation from others. As to the rest of this most recent post, it's an extremely naive view of politics. Like it or not, party has much more value than individual merit. Most major functions of government are determined by majorities. The current House speaker only exists because Republicans hold a five seat majority in the house. If Democrats held those seats, we would have an actual Speaker right now. It is typically a better outcome to elect a ham sandwich that will caucus with the party you support, over anyone on the opposing side, It would ONLY be safe to vote for a Republican if they swore to caucus with the Democrats, and could be trusted to honor their word. It would be nice if that weren't true, it would be nice if the GOP was more than a punchline at this point, but that is not the world we live in, and to pretend otherwise is to live in Narnia. If and when the GOP recover from the MAGA, that might change. So until then, choose the best possible Democratic candidate in the primaries, sure, but when the general election comes along, the Republican candidate will not be a valid option.
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  5806. @Abe Tsenoh " Support for universal healthcare has above 80% approval, a majority even among republicans." Right, but a large chunk of those people are Republicans, and wouldn't vote for a Democrat who was promising to actually get Universal Healthcare done, and so they'll never have it. Until you can convince them to vote for a Democrat, their tacit approval of universal healthcare is completely toothless. Also, Biden lost Florida because Cuban Americans though he was "too socialist," even though he wasn't actually all that socialist. America has a definite anti-socialism bias that runs strong until the Cold War generation dies off. Until then, just vote for Democrats to keep moving that needle forward as fast it reasonably can in a divided country. "Candidates like Andrew Yang or Bernie Sanders, Tulsi Gabbard or Mike Gravel, can't garner widespread support despite their popular policy positions because of the DNC/RNC, " Nah, they just aren't that popular. They all got to the debates, they all had plenty of time to make their case to the American people, the American people did not want them. If any of them had actually gotten the nomination, they would have cost to Trump by about 55/40. Now, it's fair to argue that the two-party system isn't great, but it's not really the fault of either of those parties, it's the fault of the electoral system itself. First past the post systems make two parties almost inevitable. It won't be until after we have some sort of ranked choice voting system that a third party candidate would be even remotely viable, and even then there would still likely be two parties that win most of the time. "Even if a candidate with solid policies does build a massive grassroots campaign like Sanders did, they'll just toss the vote via black box voting machines like they did in the 2020 primaries, " Lol, ok, now you've lost all your credibility by going into SCP territory.
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  5876.  @randallgoldapp9510  Biden is a capitalist, but part of responsible capitalism is reigning in the excesses of the free market. Absolute, unfiltered capitalism is just as destructive to society as absolute communism, and no country on Earth practices it. It is responsible governmental policies for the government to spend heavily during a crisis, as they can take on debt much more efficiently than private citizens can. This helps speed up the recovery. You then need to tax appropriately to cover the costs of that spending, which was the flaw in the previous administration. They should have raised taxes during the period of positive growth the Obama economy provided, rather than lowering taxes, which had raised the deficit and national debt. 2. Trump is certainly an excitable speaker, no argument there. He knows how to throw red meat to his base. That doesn't make him a coherent speaker. His speeches are just uncoordinated rambles about his various grievances that rarely stay on topic for more than thirty seconds at a time. The wall with Mexico only even exists because "build the wall" was an easy mnemonic device when he lost his train of thought. Joe Biden has a stutter which affects his ability to speak without a stumble, but he is always aware of the topic of his message and can stick to the theme he's discussing. He is more aware of the world around him than Trump was, and is far less likely to suggest people inject bleach. As for the campaign, Biden's campaign was more responsible during a pandemic. Trump held a massive rally in Tulsa, and as a direct result, several of his supporters DIED, and who knows how many others spread infection to their local communities. Viral rates in the region spiked considerably. Biden, on the other hand, responsibly avoided doing mass gatherings of people, and instead used the miracle of the Internet to reach millions of followers without needing any of them within 6ft of each other. It would take a special kind of stupid to imply that Biden was the one making the wrong call there. Trump's policies did not create peace anywhere, he just coasted on Obama's, except in places that he made less stable, and then claimed victories in places where he accomplished very little. There is no place in the world that was better off due to his actions there. Yeah, I voted for the other guy, and any rational person would.
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  5885.  King Charles ✔  So your messaging seems confused. All your posts are a laundry list of fake news talking points about Joe Biden, but you actually seem to be approving of his policies, so what are you actually personally disagreeing with? What is driving all this hate? Are you just repeating what you've been told to repeat by the fake news? Who would you have preferred, if not Trump or Biden? Also, Biden never mass locked anyone in cages. during the Obama administration, when he wasn't in charge, they locked up far fewer people than during the Trump administration. Their policy was to bring people in get them registered for court dates, and then let them go to return when that date comes up, whereas Trump was keeping people detained for months and even years without due process. The Obama administration also only separated families if the parents were charged with actual felonies, like drug trafficking, and put those children into stable environments as quickly as possible. The Trump administration shifted this to stripping children away from their parents and just deporting the parents, often with no documentation to reunite those parents with their children. You would have to be a monster to support something like that, right? then if we're talking the Biden administration itself, he was working with the hand he was dealt. He was handed the Trump DHS and the Trump facilities and the Trump backlogs of existing immigrants, and you can't sort that mess out overnight. It took them a few months to get things finally organized, which is miraculously fast if you give it any thought, and by this point it's running much more smoothly, with a processing time of only a few days and then they can be resettled to a more safe environment. It's hard to seriously expect more than that.
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  5887.  @blksbth1  Your data is incorrect. By a VERY wide margin, red states take more in federal taxes than they provide out, wile blue states give more into federal taxes than they take out. I mean, California alone is the fifth largest economy in the world. Nor for states, for countries. Of the top ten states in terms of federal tax (ie productivity), only Texas and Florida are red. Even leaving out NY and California (whcih both beat Texorida), the remaining six blue states make more when combined than Texorida would. Then of "debtor states," of the ten states most dependent on federal funding, only one of the top ten (New Mexico) is a blue state, and only five of the top twenty are blue (add Maine, Hawaii, Vermont, and Nevada). Blue states are unquestionably more productive and self-reliant than red ones. Btw, you do realize that if red states "cut the cord, you'd have to move, or be trapped on the blue side of the border with free healthcare and social security? As for the future, here's the future. People are irrelevant to it. Nobody cares where people move, they will not matter to the future. The future is automation. Every job will be automated within our lifetimes, whatever it is you do for a living, nobody will need anyone to do that thing by the end of the century. So we don't need to care where people move, we need to care about what companies can and will do to keep as much money as possible with as little responsibility as possible. That means ensuring they have no tax havens where they can incorporate with minimal taxes and regulation. If we fail to do that, then you will not only have no salary, but also no food or shelter. If, on the other hand, we can keep corporations accountable to the public, and require that they provide their fair share in exchange for their fortunes, then we can afford to provide you with food, shelter, and a basic quality standard of living, the same as everyone else. Unless you live in a red state, where they won't provide any of that.
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  5888.  @blksbth1  As for Trump allegations, there are a few in here: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/oct/19/trump-predator-new-book-fresh-allegations Trump and Epstein did fall out, but it wasn't over women. I mean, if you don't understand that Trump is a known sex predator by this point, where have you even been the past five years? " Are you sure you aren't confusing that with Miss America (not teens)? " I am sure. TEEN USA, not the adult competition. Either way it would be sexual predator behavior. "As for the racism claim, none of what you cited stems from those individuals being black. " Lol. "If you can't defend him from racism, join him," I guess. " Trump basically challenged Obama's citizenry in the same regard. " Obama was born in Hawaii. That is in America. And nobody seriously questioned whether someone born to American parents overseas was allowed to be President, we already knew that they could be, it was never said as anything but a joke by anyone outside of Republican circles. "Funny how he was never ONCE considered a racist by anyone until he ran for President as a Republican. " This is absolutely untrue. He was considered racist, especially after his attacks against Obama. Even when he was somewhat "popular" with black people, it was a transactional relationship. He was a wealthy businessman that could do favors to black people, and they could give him some credibility and fluff his ego. Again, if you didn't already know that, it only indicts your news sources. Trump was not as open in his racism until after he started campaigning for Republican votes, but if he had been saying the same things in 2005 as he'd been saying since 2016, he would have been a pariah. " You will see, rather quickly and clearly, that he went out of his way to say that, when referring to the "good people", he was NOT referring to white supremacists," Lie. Do not lie and expect to be taken seriously, particularly if you had to lie to yourself to get there. You can't read Trump transcripts because he reads in word salad. You need to WATCH Trump speaking. He does sometimes say the right thing, but only in a dismissive fashion, while spotlighting the dogwhistles to his base. IT lets him have it both ways. It's like his Jan 6th speech, "you have to go home, but I love you for trying to overthrow the government (paraphrasing)"
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  5890.  @blksbth1  But Trump also said "there were good people on both sides." One of those sides was ONLY white supremacists. You cannot say "there were good people on both sides," without saying "some white supremacists are fine." What he said after that would be irrelevant unless he specifically said that "fine people on both sides" was a mistake, and he never did, even weeks and months later. Anything else he said in that speech was irrelevant, because he delivered the message that matters to his white supremacist fans out there, he had their back. "THERE WERE PEOPLE PROTESTING THAT WEREN'T WHITE SUPREMACISTS. " Yes, of course there were, they were on the OTHER side from the white supremacists. If he'd only said "there were good people on the side opposing the white supremacists," nobody would have gotten upset (aside from Trump's base, of course). If people were there opposing taking down Confederate statues, those people are called "white supremacists." And of course even white supremacists have the right to protest, but we aren't arguing that they didn't, we are pointing out that the President should not be praising them, calling them "fine people." And no, the only Violence in Charlottesville was one of the white supremacists rolling over a leftist with his car. The counter protesters had every right to counter protest just as much as the protesters did. Antifa is too often used as a scapegoat for violence caused by the right. "For example, can you name several very good things that came out of the last administration that folks on both sides of the aisle should have celebrated?" I honestly can't. I mean, there are good things that happened during his presidency, but none that I could specifically attribute to Trump's actions, none that would not have happened anyway if any other person were at that desk. Every decision he made was bad, or at least was for bad purposes, like trying to bribe constituencies he clearly didn't care about into voting for him. I'd like to hear your list though. What are ten things that Trump did that left-leaning voters should praise him for? Was one of them getting the Justice Department to spy on the children of House Intelligence Committee staffers? I don't think you'll find a lot of takers there.
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  5910.  @anniehopkins8470  First, I don't think you're correct that requiring IDs is automatically racist, and I'm not sure why it would ever be sexist, but it can obviously be implemented in a way that harms some voters more than others, and that might lead to racist intent and racist outcome. It all depends on the wording of the particular bill, such as the one in Texas, which does have racist intent and outcomes. Second, voter ID is a Republican priority, the Democrats are not citing that as the primary reason they are opposed to most of these bills, so it's a bit baffling as to why defenders of these bills keep responding with "voter ID isn't a problem!!!!," when that isn't responding to the argument being made at all. Democrats tend to be more opposed to measures by Republican states ot allow their legislatures to throw out the results of an election if it does not go their way and substitute the results with their own picks. Democrats also tend to oppose measures to restrict the time and places that people are allowed to vote, making it less likely that they will be able to do so. Those are the issues Democrats actually care about. Voter ID is a sideshow to that. And obviously, NO Democrat would ever even consider intelligence to be a factor here, ONLY Republicans claim that certain communities are somehow "too stupid" to be able to get voter ID, and how dare "Democrats suggest that." The reasons Democrats actual cite is hard data that black communities are less likely to already have the required IDs (since they are more likely to live in urban areas where driving is not required), and are less able to get to places where these IDs can be acquired, or to afford them when they do. This is not to say that NO black voters can get these IDs, or that ONLY black voters will not have them, it is just to point out that it has a disproportionate effect.
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  5914.  @anniehopkins8470  How can an implementation hurt some voters more than others? Well, say you have a voting area in which there are 1000 people. 500 of those people live in an urban area, and 500 of those people live in rural areas around it. Of the 500 rural voters, almost all of them already have a driver's license, because they have few alternatives to driving if you want to get anywhere. Of the 500 urban people, some of them do have driver's licenses, but many of them have no need for one, because they can walk or take public transit to where they need to go. So if you just implement a "everyone now needs a valid drivers license to vote" bill, then that can make it so that suddenly, through no fault of their own, a larger percentage of the urban population would be ineligible to cast their Constitutionally mandated vote, while far fewer of the rural voters would be in that position. That is a disparate impact. Now how can you correct for that? Well getting a valid Id sometimes has a cost involved. If you need one anyway, this is usually considered the cost of being allowed to drive and is ok, but you should never have any cost to be able to vote, so there needs to be some form of completely free valid voter ID that is available to all voters at request. and of course to get such an ID, people typically have to go to an authorized location, such as the DMV. For people driving there, this is typically no problem, but if you don't drive, or live a busy life, then getting to the DMV, particularly during office hours, might be impossible, so there would need to be methods to get a valid ID without leaving the home, ideally at 24 hours a day. So long as such methods are available, you can have an ID system without it causing disparate impacts. And of course you can't require ID of a mail-in ballot, for obvious reasons. This is not really a very important issue though, since fraudulent voting is a non-issue. It accounts for maybe a few hundred votes per hundreds of millions cast, NEVER enough to flip the results of any contest higher than "dog catcher." It would not make sense to implement a system that would potentially lead to thousands of eligible voters being unable to cast their ballot, only to prevent dozens of illegal ballots from being cast. That's just "cutting off your nose to spite your face." "The entire basis of this "voter ID is racist" argument is predicated on democrats seeing minorities as "less capable", " This is absolutely untrue. Find me evidence of even ONE prominent Democrat making this case. The issue is not that anyone is "less capable" in terms of intelligence, it's just that some people's circumstances place them in a position where they have less access to certain services. If it were about intelligence then obviously Democrats wouldn't have a problem with it, since Republican voters are. . . not terribly gifted in that category. I mean, 70m-some people voted for Trump last year. LAST YEAR. If voter ID disenfranchised stupid voters, Democrats would be riding high. And I'm sorry, but I have FACTUALLY only ever heard Republicans saying "Democrats think black people are stupid," as a reason that voter Id is not a problem. I have never once heard a Democrat raise this point, or any point that could reasonably be confused for that point.
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  6025.  @cyberprince_aah  Ok, we can consider that trans athletes should have their own playground, a sort of "segregation," if you will. It wouldn't work. Ok, now that we've considered that, the question is how to best incorporate the trans youth in our communities, and allowing them to participate in the sports that are attached to their gender seems to be the best option for that. Again, no "cismales decide to become trans women." That's not a thing. If they were trans women, then they were always trans women, whether they'd realized that about themselves or not. It's not a choice, you can't just turn it on or off at a whim, it's a core aspect of who you are. Is it "unfair" for someone with certain typically male biological traits to complete with women? Is it unfair for a 6'5ft tall teenager to compete in a league where the average height is 5'5? Is it unfair for a male swimmer to compete when his arms are disproportionately large relative to the human average? Is it unfair for one athlete to spend as much time in the gym as another and come out with larger muscles because they process nutrients more efficiently? Sports are never fair. Every competition will include people who have biological advantages over their competition, and that's before we even factor in things like access to food, time available to train, access to advanced machinery and techniques, sports are NEVER fair. So to use "fairness" as an excuse to exclude trans girls from being able to participate in sports is ridiculous, unless the intent is to make those girls feel excluded. So, again, so long as the category is defined by gender, so long as it is a "women's" category, then it needs to include ALL women, even those with biological advantages like most Olympians have. This goes doubly for non-professional sports, where the only thing on the line is "fun."
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  6026.  @cyberprince_aah  Oh, I thought It was obvious why segregating trans athletes would not work, but I guess I can dumb it down for you if it was less obvious to you. There aren't enough of them. Trans people make up less than 1% of the population, and many of those have no interest in being athletes. A typical school district will have thousands of female athletes, enough to provide full teams at every school, but would likely only have one or two trans athletes in any given activity, so it would be impossible to build any sort of competitive field. The whole point of amateur athletics is to allow people to compete with each other. Segregating trans athletes is no different than banning them from sport entirely. And of course trans women use women's restrooms, where else would they go? "Yes, this is unfair, this is exactly why I said that males are far more superior in strength than women, the science supports this," But again, it is not just a "male vs female" issue. You can take ten men, plain old ordinary men, and have them do the EXACT same diet and workout routine, and some of them will come out of that with more effective bodies than the others, just because of slight differences in their biology. Again, no two men are identical, there are always differences. Yes, if you "put in the work" you can improve your potential as an athlete, just as trans women need to put in the work to be great in their sport, but there is no amount of effort that can make up for an equal amount of effort plus talent. The top athletes in the world worked hard to get where they are, but that does not mean that any random person could have achieved the same results if they'd taken every identical step along the way. Sport is never fair. Sport has an illusion of fairness, you have the same number of people on each side, you have the same starting line, etc., but each athlete has their own natural strengths and weaknesses to deal with. Michael Phelps was born with longer arms than most humans, that does not mean he should not be allowed to swim. A trans woman may have been born with stronger muscles than most other women, but that does not mean she should not be allowed to compete. Also, nobody is arguing that cismales should be allowed to compete in women's sports, only trans women. If a cismale attempts to compete in a women's sport, then that would be fraud.
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  6122. @ You're looking at the systems too simply, only looking at one part of it at a time, rather than the whole thing. There is a demand for housing, yes, but there is also a limit to how much people are willing and able to spend. If you reduce supply, then the simple answer is that this increases profits because it is less than demand, but the more practical result is that it just prices people out of the market, and fewer people are able to obtain housing, or they have to make do with worse and worse options. Housing prices are already too high, you cannot raise that number significantly. So if you reduce the supply of workers, that does not lead to higher wages for the remaining ones, it just leads to fewer total projects, which means fewer homes to go around, which means fewer people with homes. And there is no long term gain to the sorts of tariffs being discussed here. It will only lead to increased prices for US consumers, while the rest of the world laughs. Many construction materials are made in the US, but the prices on those will go up due to the increased labor costs of producing them. Those materials we get outside the US will go up, either due to Trump's tariffs, or due to taxes that other countries put on them in retaliation for his tariffs. And of course in a feedback loop, the US produced products will get hit by a second price rise, because even if something is "produced" here, it often has costs that would involve foreign imports, such as needing precursor materials, parts, and machinery produced overseas. The costs will all go up. There will be no benefits to it. It is only a bad thing, unless you are one of America's enemies, in which case, it's the best possible thing. It's the US dunking on their own basket.
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  6181.  @kaijohnson5033  But you're misunderstanding how virus works. It's not like if you breath some virus out into a plane, that you've instantly and inevitably doomed everyone in that plan to infection. You have just expelled a certain amount of viral particles. Those viral particles would then move around a bit through the cabin, settle on surfaces, and eventually die. IF those particles get close to another passenger, and IF they do not have their own mask on (or it manages to bypass those filters), then the particles might enter their body. And if it does, those particles might lead to infection, or might be fought off before it reaches that point. The more particles, the more frequently they come into contact, the greater the risk. Too many people seem to view infection as some absolute binary thing, either you're 100% safe or 0% safe. It's instead just layers of risk, and no matter what you do (short of staying entirely away form any infected person), you will never be at 0%, but you will also never be at 100%. Wearing a mask increases your protection, getting vaccinated increases your protection, those around you doing these things increases your protection, but it is never 100%, and it is never 0%. If passengers all wear their masks 100% of the time, then that would be the lowest risk of transmission, but if they all take their masks off for 10% of the time, especially if they stagger that a bit, then their risks have gone up, but they are still nowhere close to 100%. And personally, I rate someone who would put "a very small complaint" like having to wear a mask over the life of another human as "trash." It is a fact that thousands of people are dead specifically because someone chose not to wear a mask. You cannot claim that your "minor inconvenience" is more of a burden than their life was worth. So anyone ATTEMPTING to make such an argument is absolute garbage, and there is no defending them. People whining over minor inconvenience can claim NO moral equivalency to people "whining" in an attempt to save human lives.
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  6191.  @ZepFan01-rs5xc  I don't know the context of the photo you're talking about, but it's possible that the reporter was directly talking to people, while the cameraman was staying far enough back that it was less of a risk. Or perhaps the reporter was just trying to show a good example to the public. That is not some "gotcha" moment that you seem to think it is. Hangovers have not killed 600,000 Americans. Yes, many people who get it only have mild flu symptoms, or no symptoms at all, but it still kills twenty times more people than the average flu season, even AFTER taking serious measures to reduce that number, and leaves others with long term disabilities. It may be a joke to you, but that does not mean that it actually IS a joke to those that get serious cases of it. Some people have had the flu, you can see tracking of it on CDC sites. There were around 400 flu deaths in 2020-2021 season. The flu rate is much lower than in a normal year, but that is because 1. a lot more people got flu shots this year than normal, and 2. the same sorts of things that reduce covid risk ALSO work against the flu, so since a lot more people were staying home, not going to mass gatherings, etc., a lot less people got the flu. This should not be surprising to you. If we handled every flu season the way we handled covid, then we would see similarly tiny numbers, but since the flu has a MUCH higher survivability rate than covid, it would not be worth taking such extreme measures. There are only 20-30,000 flu deaths in a normal flu season, I'm not sure who lied to you and told you "400,000." The CDC also predicts how many "expected deaths" each year will have due to normal circumstances like old age and card crashes and that sort of thing, and 2020 had roughly 400,000 deaths above that expected amount, meaning around 400,000 MORE Americans died last year than any reasonable expectations could account for without factoring in covid's impacts. And are you SERIOUSLY trying to spread the Big Lie too now? Geez, I really hope you're a Russian plant at this point, because I'm tired of believing that Americans can be this stupid.
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  6331.  @jeremygilbert7989  In terms of Deaths per capita, the US is 17th's worst in the world. That is absolutely NOTHING to cheer about, given that this means we are worse than about 150+ other countries. It's like cheering about barely getting a "D" grade because it wasn't an "F." And most of those countries that did worse than us were scrappy little Eastern European countries, hardly the gold standard for "of course they would come out ahead of the US, but we beat them anyway." The UK did slightly worse than us, but that's because they, like us, were shackled with a government that insisted on denying there was a problem as best they could, doing the bare minimum when forced into it, but then "ok now, back to work" as quickly as possible, which would lead to another shut-down. I have been following the UK case very closely, and it was a mess on basically the same lines as the US. Pointing to other countries that also had it bad is no excuse for the state of the US. We COULD have done so much better with the resources we had available to us, and falling short of THAT is what is the problem. You claim to be using statistics, but you're only abusing them to pretend nothing is wrong, when the realities have a LOT of details that the raw statistics cannot cover. The nature of the virus does not just scale linearly with population size, some tiny countries had a terrible run with it, some tiny countries had basically no problem. Some fairly large countries had a terrible time, some fairly large countries did basically as well as could be expected. Both rich and poor countries did better or worse than average, there is no common statistical "fact" as to how each country could be expected to perform. What it ultimately came down to is POLICY, and the US policies during the height of the pandemic were terrible.
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  6823.  @juriscervenaks8953  Pretty much everything, really. I think your primary misunderstanding is how "power" works. Power WILL exist, it is inevitable. someone will hold it. If you remove "government" from the equation, that does not mean everyone gets to do whatever they want, it just means that the strongest get to decide what everyone else is allowed to do. In a capitalist system, this means that the wealthiest corporations get to decide what everyone else has to do. In a lack of government, corporations become a defacto government. Pretty much every government regulation of businesses exist because at some point, businesses tried to do that thing, and it went poorly, so a law was made to prevent them doing it. If you remove government, they just go back to doing that thing. There is zero difference between an authoritarian soviet state and an authoritarian capitalist state, the "bad" part of that is not the economic model, it's the authoritarian government. Businesses will NEVER be under the control of the people, so in any system in which businesses are allowed free reign, they will reign free. Governments might not be under the control of the people, depending on how they function, but it's at least possible for them to be under the control of the people, and so that is the outcome that everyone should be fighting for at all times, to ensure that government is as accountable to the people as possible. As they say, "democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the other ones," and that includes "anarcho-capitalism."
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  6835. Well, on the one hand, when you are electing a single individual, a President, then the better system is a a ranked choice voting system, where you vote for like 3-5 people in order, and if your first choice doesn't win then maybe your second or third would get a boost and win. This is a system mostly likely to give the candidate that most people can tolerate, but least likely to give you the one you want most. Of course you do need to have one person in charge for some roles, just to be able to take decisive action in times of crisis. Parliaments are fine when you have months to debate a topic, but not when someone needs to make a call in ten minutes. Another issue to consider is that while the US is split into Republicans and Democrats, there are significant factions within those bodies, centrist Dems, socialist Dems, fiscal conservative GOP, methhead lunatic GOP, etc. If we were a different country with a different system, you would have the same basic outcome, the only difference being that instead of two parties, you would have a coalition of the 2-3 parties that contain the people who are currently considering themselves Democrats. You would have, say, Joe Manchin, Chuck Shumer, and Bernies Sanders in three different parties, but they would all caucus together to form a ruling coalition. It's kind of a distinction without a difference, really, and no real advantages to it. The disadvantage is that it can lead to chaotic scrambles for the more fringe representatives that often lead to stalemate and dysfunction.
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  7383.  @tracybarhite1764  You seem to have grossly misunderstood the Constitution. It says "no state should be formed within the jurisdiction of any other state or junction of two states, without the consent of the legislatures of those states as well as of the congress. So there is no problem there with DC statehood. Not only is DC not a part of Maryland or Virginia, and therefore would not even trigger any of this, but even if it were, it would only need the approval of their legislatures, which it would likely get. As for the electoral college, I don't believe that congress can pass a law (short of an amendment) that would abolish the electoral college, but they could pass laws (or state laws) that would make it functionally irrelevant, such as directing the EC to vote the way that the popular vote goes. Overall this would be an improvement, so as long as they do it in a way that meets a strict legal standard, I'm on board. If Trump did not want to pack the court, he could have re-appointed Garland and allowed him to be confirmed. He did not, which led to a significant imbalance on the court that must be corrected. Do you not agree that the current court is unsustainably activist in nature? As for if Republicans come back into power, they have already shown that they will grab whatever power they are able to. McConnell even tried to prevent Democrats taking power in January until he got certain concessions. If the Democrats fail to make the best use of the next year and a half, then that will not mean that Republicans will be super nice if they take back the Senate, it will just mean that they will accomplish less for the American people. If and when the Republicans retake the government, they will not hesitate to grab whatever power they can, regardless of what the Democrats do. The simple fact is that Republicans are making every effort they can to enforce a minority government, a government in which even where the majority of people vote for Democrats, Republicans retain the majority of representation. All Americans need to fight against this at all levels, or there will be no democracy left. I ask you again, you have claimed that you are a registered Democrat, that you support Democratic principles, which ones? Nothing else that you've said supports the idea that you believe in anything democratic or Democratic at all.
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  7384. 1
  7385.  @tracybarhite1764  "States" shouldn't have ANY voting power in who gets to be president. PEOPLE should have that power, and the vote of a PERSON in a large state should not count for less than a PERSON in a "battleground state." More people voted for Biden in Texas than voted for him in New York, and yet none of those Texans votes actually mattered, because slightly more Texans voted for Trump, so ALL of Texas's votes went to him (luckily Texas wasn't necessary). The Electoral College does not exist because it's the best way to do things, it exists as a compromise because when the Constitution was written, we'd just broken away form England, and each state had the potential to just break away as an independent country. The only way to hold them together was to ensure state leadership that they would retain a lot of that same power, it was all about their power. That doesn't mean that's what's best for us today. Large cities should have no power in deciding who is president. States should have no power in deciding who's President. Only the PEOPLE should decide that. " In the majority of elections the Electoral College works. " That doesn't mean it is working well. In two of the last ten Presidential elections, the winner of the electoral college was different than the winner of the popular vote. An 80% success rate is NOT a good thing when you're talking about the leader of the free world for the next four years, especially given how catastrophic both of those presidencies turned out. I mean, imagine an America that hadn't suffered from the Iraq war or mass covid deaths in 2020. It's even possible that a different president could have avoided 9/11 and the 2008 economic collapse entirely!
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  7386.  @tracybarhite1764  My point was that the systems the Constitution set up, all of them, were designed to give State Governments more sovereignty and power within the federal government than would be ideal for the government and people as a whole, because those states did not want to give up power that they already had going on. My point is that the system could have been a lot better than it was, it was not somehow a perfect system at the time of its creation. The electoral college is not the popular vote, "the popular vote within a state" is not a thing, because state lines are just a random abstraction. I'm not sure where you are confused on that. I mean, say you have two neighboring states with equal populations, one north, and one south, and let's say that 56% of one state votes for Candidate A, and 44% for B, and 54% of the other state votes for B and 46% for A. In that case, you'd get an equal number of Electoral Votes for each candidate, even though in total, 2% more people voted for A than for B. If those states were split East and West rather than North and South, then the Electoral results might have gone in a completely different way, using the same votes! It is the votes of the HUMANS that should matter, the state those humans live in should be completely irrelevant. The electoral college is at best an abstraction of the popular vote that is in many cases inaccurate. There is no argument that makes the electoral college in any way as good for Americans or democracy as just using the popular vote itself. Maybe the electoral college used to work, but given how badly it's mess up the 21st Century, maybe things have changed to make it a less reliable system. Why not remove it?
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  7387.  @tracybarhite1764  If you thought your point addressed mine, then you did not understand it. My point was not that I was sad about "Texas," or "New York," but that I was sad for VOTERS in Texas that the Electoral College robbed their votes of any meaning because they ever "overruled" by other Texas voters, even though their votes should be relevant to the overall outcome. If a voter votes for Biden or Trump, it should be completely irrelevant how many other people in their state made that same vote, the ONLY thing that should matter is how many total people in the country vote for each candidate. "My point was that you are for the popular vote nationally, but not across a state ie.Texas. " YES. Because "the popular vote of who should be president of the country, says Texas" is not a thing that should matter. The only thing "the popular vote of Texas" should matter for is state level contests like governor and senator. For President, "the popular vote of Texas" should be irrelevant, it should be "Steve from Texas" and "Mary from Texas" compared against "Sally from Wisconsin" and "George from Pennsylvania," and all of their votes having equal sway on the outcome. "You are still confused about how the Electoral College works. The Electoral College doesn't work off a percentage so I'm not really sure where you were going with your state A and B analogy. " You don't seem to understand how the EC works. Most states are winner-take-all. That means that if one candidate wins a state by a tiny margin, they get 100% of the EC votes allocated to that state. So if a state has 10 EC votes, and one candidate wins that state by 2% of the state vote, he gets 100% of the EC votes. Even in the few states that have proportional splits, if a person won by 2% of the vote, he would still get 6/10 EC votes and his opponent only 4/10, gaining the equivalent of a 20% margin instead of a 2% one. This distorts the outcome and is undemocratic. "If we were too elect by popular vote the 4 most populated states are California, Texas, Florida, and New York. " If we were to elect by the popular vote, the four most populous states would be IRRELEVANT. It would not matter how many more people lived in this or that state. If you lived in Wyoming and someone else lived in California, it WOULD NOT MATTER. You would get ONE vote, they would get ONE vote, you add up all the votes, the one that gets the most votes win, regardless of states. This should be obvious. "The Electoral College isn't perfect, but the Founding Father's didn't want to have elections by popular vote because they wanted to prevent mob rule. " The Founding Fathers lived in a time when most people couldn't even read. They didn't trust the general population, and electors weren't even chosen by the people until much later. The popular vote was basically just a straw poll that they could ignore. That doesn't make it a GOOD system, it's the system they had because it worked for their interests. It no longer does. If you believe that YOU deserve a vote, then you should be willing to agree that EVERYONE'S votes should count equally to it.
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  7388.  @tracybarhite1764  Population differences shouldn't be relevant. Each person's vote should count equally regardless of how many other people live nearby. If more people move into your neighborhood, they shouldn't be able to just divvy up shares of your vote. If you live in California or you live in Wyoming, you should get exactly one vote, 100% equal to any other person's vote. Who do YOU believe deserves less of a vote than you do? "but the major cities and states with the most population would elect the president while the smaller cities and less populated states would be out numbered. " No. That does not make any sense. It would not be "larger cities" that would vote for the winner, it would be the largest NUMBER OF PEOPLE who would vote for the winner, REGARDLESS of whether those people lived in large cities or in small cities or in less populated areas, and there is no sane argument for why anything else should be the case. What is your obsession with "big cities?" Is it because they might vote differently than you would, and you believe that your vote should count more than theirs, and that you should get your way even if more people disagree with you? Well I'm sorry, but that is not how a democracy, not even a functional democratic Republic, would behave. That is autocracy, and we should never aspire to that. "The majority of the elections here the candidate who wins the Electoral College also has the popular vote. " And yet in both the 2000 and 2016 elections that was not the case, and America suffered disastrous results over the following four years as a result. There has been no case in which the electoral college results were different than the popular vote and it improved things. "PS you don't need to repeat everything back to me, I'm well aware of my comments. " You seem to sometimes forget them, and I want to make clear to you which points I am responding to at the time. IF you say something that is patently false, my response is pointing out why that specific point you made is patently false. "Also this debate really isn't going anywhere. You've stated your point and I've stated mine. We are never going to agree." Probably, because I am an American, and you want autocracy.
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  7401.  @derpydino1915  1. And I pointed out why you seem to think you're saying the right things on this issue, but are clearly out of touch with the reality of the situation. What does "if they were raped, they should be able to get an abortion" mean? In a magical fantasy world, it would mean exactly that, that every woman who is raped would be able to get an abortion, no worries, but we don't live in a fantasy world. In the real world, several states outright ban abortions even in cases of rape. Even if they correct that eventually, or we are talking about states that currently have rape exemptions, it would still end up being impractical, since aggressive anti-abortion law enforcement would be constantly targeting these women and the doctors that treat them on the grounds that "maybe they weren't raped, maybe they're trying to trick us," and it would CERTAINLY lead to a great deal of drama for both, to the point that operating a facility that offers abortions in the state would be unworkable. Plenty of states have been working toward EXACTLY that "dream" for decades now, up to this point trying to work around Roe to do so, but now completely unshackled. Again, the point is that women should not have to be raped to be able to seek an abortion if that is what they choose to do. Your decisions should have no impact on their ability to make that choice and see it through. 2. Again, pills and condoms are effective, but it still leads to tens of thousands of unintended pregnancies each year. Yes, some of them they decide to keep the baby, but sometimes they do not, and that is their choice. No, your apparent scorn for their sexual behavior never justifies preventing them from getting an abortion if that is their decision. 3. Getting an abortion is also a form of "taking responsibility for their actions." It is not the choice you would apparently make if you got pregnant (although really I kind of doubt that), but you do not get to make the choice for them. You can disapprove, that's fine, but not prevent them.
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  7549.  @dialechim4368  Maybe you could tell me why it would be terrible for the government to have exclusive legal use of force. That's one of the primary functions of a government, to employ force only as the society determines it should be used. Some criminals could still obtain guns, but as we know from the examples of other first world countries, gun bans do work, if guns are illegal, it is much harder for criminals to obtain guns, FAR fewer criminals have them, and those guns that are used in crimes are much more often "criminal vs criminal," rather than the murder of innocents. I mean, in pretty much every mass shooting case, the shooter obtained their weapons legally, or got them off of someone who had, so if you removed that legal access to guns, the "casual criminals" would have a much harder time finding a black market source for them. And people do sometimes shoot police stations and military bases, like the Fort Hood shooting, but the issue is that it's impossible to adequately protect EVERY location. We know for a fact that removing the guns would massively reduce the amount of shootings. There are some idiots out there who say that the solution to the problem is somehow "more guns," and yet the US already has way more guns than any other country, and yet also has four times as many murders, so clearly the evidence points to the opposite. If "more guns" were the answer, then the US would already have a murder rate that was less than half of any other first world country, rather than four times higher.
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  7551.  @JohnDoe-ew3xt  1. Yes, murders decreased dramatically since the passage of the 1994 assault weapons ban. They have been increasing dramatically ever since that law was allowed to lapse. Obviously, these are complex issues, and you can never 1:1 tie broad outcomes to any specific changes to the law, but the overall trend is that removing legal guns from the streets correlates to reduced murders, and allowing more guns correlates to increased murders. I mean, you have to squint REALLY hard to try and imagine a picture in which "more guns" turns out to be better than "less guns." 2. Ok, you do you. Personally, if someone is doing something right and it leads to better results, I think I'd have to be pretty damned ignorant to say "no thanks to that, I'm doing it my way instead!" Don't do something because another country is doing it, do it because it's the right damned thing to do. 3. Well like I said, "ideally." Changing the constitution is very difficult, and therefore unlikely, but I think we can agree that we would at least be better off for it. So short of that, we should do whatever we CAN do to reduce the guns on the streets, right? And as to your final question, yes, at the time it was written the US had no standing national army, so in case of foreign invasion, the average citizen needed to be prepared to join up in national defense. That's why the 2nd amendment makes clear from the very start, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State," It was never meant to apply outside that context, and largely became irrelevant once the US shifted toward a more professional army.
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  7604.  @CH-wm6wo  I agree that two different people can arrive at different conclusions, but that does not mean that both conclusions are equally valid. In many cases, one, or even both of them can be wrong. You assert that California made their diesel ban in "bad faith," I disagree. We might not understand their intentions the same way though. To me, I believe their intention is to give all players involved the incentive to get moving on this, quicker than they might with no direction from the state at all. I feel that this will encourage truck manufacturers to move faster in developing and iterating on electric trucks, to meet what they can expect to be highly increased demand over the 2030s. I feel that this will encourage infrastructure to ensure that California can provide the necessary power, knowing that there will be a market waiting for it, and for charging stations to be built, knowing that customers will come for it. I feel that all of this will make it more likely that California will have majority EV trucks on their road by 2050, if not sooner, than they would have without this step. Now if, in the case that innovation does not meet up to expectations, and by the early 2030s California is nowhere near ready to move away from diesel trucking, then I'm sure the plans would be adjusted via new legislation, as is often the case. But it's still a good idea to set that target and stick to it as best they can manage. And I'm sorry if I misunderstood your point, but please read back through your prior statements, they were all vague "You got something wrong" comments, without any specific points being made, so I could only guess at what your actual intentions might be. If you want people to take your arguments in good faith, then you first need to actually mack an argument that can support itself. Do not make vague posts and then blame the other person for not understanding your position.
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  7606.  @CH-wm6wo  Appointed members of government are appointed by elected members of government. This obviously has some level of democratic inefficiency to it, as you have appointed members that do not reflect modern values, like the current US Supreme Court, but they are at least ultimately the result of the votes people have cast. I see no reason to believe that the current make-up of the California Air Resources Board would be vastly different than what the people of California would elect into that role, if given the opportunity. As for Lithium's sustainability, these are good questions, but not rhetorical ones, we have answers to those. The lithium in batteries is 100% recyclable. It is entirely sustainable, at least in the near term. There are already companies in place that collect spent lithium batteries and are in the process of recycling them. Recycled lithium is currently more expensive than "fresh" lithium, but that too will shift once the easier sources of fresh lithium become less available, and once recycling methods scale up. We might reach some point at which we won't have as much lithium as we'd want to do everything we want with it, but we would never run out of it, and any concerns around that would be much further off than the demise of all fossil fuels. Not to mention that lithium is not the only way to make a battery, and new formulas are being invented all the time. As to national security, there are no concerns there. Yes, some of those materials come from unstable regions, but the same is true of oil and gas, and there are lithium mines in the US that are currently being scaled up. Currently a lot of processing is done in China, since that makes the most economic sense right now, but if there were ever national security reasons to pull out of China entirely, they could be processed elsewhere. Also, modern lithium batteries are moving more and more away from cobalt as a component. You are right that some modern techs do not involve mandates to encourage their development, but that doesn't mean that such mandates are not sometimes of benefit. Sure, we could continue to burn fossil fuels until they ran out, but that would cost the taxpayers trillions of dollars to mitigate the damage it would cause. It's much cheaper and more effective to get off that train before it crashes into a wall, right? These questions have ALL been thoroughly discussed among good faith participants, and conclusions have been reached. These are the results of that conclusion. The only "discussions" that remain are with bad faith actors who refuse to be convinced on any answer but their own. You cannot have good faith discussions with the "turtles, all the way down" crowd, and attempting to do so is a waste of time. Forgive me saying so, but it's flatly idiotic to claim that the mandates are about perpetuation of government. I can think of no more "bad faith" an argument than that from anyone simultaneously claiming to not be of simple mind. If all a government wanted was power, then they would propose simple, populist solutions to problems, not inconvenient ones. They would promise that everything you want to believe is true, that everything you want to have, you deserve to have, and it's the mean immigrants keeping them from you. Nothing about this diesel truck proposal has anything to do with "perpetuation of government," because while it is the right thing to do, it will only harm the approval of government more than it secures it. That's why we elect government though, to do what needs to be done, not what is most popular. If popularity was all that was important, then a direct democracy would serve better than a republic, but the founders chose against that.
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  7607.  @CH-wm6wo  The Supreme Court isn't supposed to make policy, but for the past decade or so, they have in actual fact made a lot of policy changes. More than the legislature, really. But that's neither here nor there. If you're speaking against appointed jobs in total, well, the founders considered many such roles important, they would not see a problem with how they are used today. Besides which, this is a state board, which is outside federal control. And like I said, even if that board's members were elected by the citizens of the state, they would probably arrive at the same conclusions, because those are conclusions the state broadly supports. And of course the government isn't getting smaller, the size of the population has grown much larger, and the responsibilities of government have gotten so much larger. I mean, people complain about "the border" all the time, and it's obvious what the issue there is, there are too few appointed immigration judges to handle the amount of migrants coming to the border in a timely manner, so they just pile up, awaiting their hearing dates, rather than entering the natural economy and becoming productive Americans. We need much bigger government, not "smaller." It's also important to recognize that the free market is NEVER in the people's interests. The free market is in the best interests of those relative few at the TOP of it, for example the fossil fuel lobbies that promote the benefits of those products and pay people to put negative spins on pro-environmental stories on social media. Government is the only hedge the people have against big businesses. I mean, don't get me wrong, there is a children's fairytale that "the customers" control the market and if they want or don't want something that businesses will bend to their whims, but I assume we're both too old to buy into that sort of nonsense, right? And no, a "good faith actors" is not someone who "agrees with my conclusion," a good faith actor is one who does not present a nakedly idiotic position as if it is reasonable. There are plenty of people in this world who I disagree with on issues big or small, but I can respect their positions, because they are grounded in reality, or in reasonable differences of opinion. But there is no rational argument to be made that the California Air Resources Board passed a change like this as, what, some sort of arbitrary exercise of power, just to say they did it? Of course not, again, one would have to be EITHER a complete imbecile OR a liar to make such a statement, there is no third possibility there. You can disagree with their decision that it is good policy, but there is no reason why they would make such a decision other than that they believe it is important to reduce the use of diesel trucks as quickly as can reasonably be achieved, and that they believe that this action will lead to that outcome. Trying to gin up any other reason for it is nothing but "dogma."
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  7684.  @ttemp2631  Yes, but nobody can GET their own interests if we accept that everyone is chasing their own interests, because EVERY interests that benefits one side also harms the other. If nobody would ever agree to a position that was not in their own interests, then nobody would ever agree to anything. So that's why you need to line things up on each side of the balance sheet so that they are good for both parties. I want an apple. The store does not want to give me an apple, because then they would have less apples! Why would they ever give me an apple? The store wants my money. I don't want to give them my money, I want to keep my money, why would I ever agree to just give a store MY money?! But. . . if I agree to give them some of my money, and they agree to give me their apple, then I would have an apple and they would have my money, and we would both be satisfied with that arrangement! So this is how all diplomacy works, "here is what I want, even knowing that you don't want to give me that thing, but what DO you want that I could give you so that you would agree to give me something that you don't want to?" China clearly would prefer not to give up sovereignty over the upper Mekong, no doubt. Nobody has yet made them an offer that they would accept yet, or they would have accepted it, no doubt. But there are clearly things that China wants, and if someone offered China one of those things in exchange, they might sign on. Just because it hasn't happened yet, doesn't mean it would never happen in the future. What are you not getting?
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  7760.  @blksbth1 "No...and that you would actually be led to think that way speaks volumes. " Ok, so then I guess that would be the disconnect. It's impossible to have a meaningful conversation with someone who refuses to accept the world around him. Step one is learning why you were wrong here, and then you can move on to other topics. "You REALLY think a bunch of unarmed, angry protestors - accounting for less than half of those that entered the building, the rest having protested peacefully - could have pulled off what you just said?" Yes, but perhaps not in the way you imagine. I do NOT think that they could have used armed force to "overthrow" anything, and that was never the point of it. The point of it was to inject enough chaos into the proceedings that the certification could be delayed or even prevented, and that they could arrange to force a House vote instead of certifying the election results. This would likely have led to the House electing Donald Trump, and while there would of course be legal challenges, but with the current SCOTUS who knows how that would have turned out, and it would at the very least be a mess. This was the plan, it failed, but it was what those at the top WANTED to happen. Obviously not all of the protesters were in on those details, they were just a distraction. An insurrection does not need to involve any sort of violence, and it certainly does not need to have a credible chance at success, it only requires an attempt to overthrow the legitimate government, which is what was happening. It is also worth noting that many of the protesters were willing and able to use violence on that day, so while there is no chance of them actually "overthrowing" anything, they very easily could have killed members of congress had they managed to encounter any (again, not all of the protesters, but some within the group). This is all a matter of public record by this point, and learning these things is your own responsibility.
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  7947.  @urgreatestenemy  I was also factoring in the other forms of pollution. Were you? Have you looked into the oil pollution Nigeria has? Pumping, refining, shipping, and more importantly burning gasoline causes FAR more pollution to the globe as a whole, and much more than that directly to the US, than ANY aspect of EVs. And yeah, recycling the batteries would produce some small amount of pollution, but not that much, a manageable amount (you should look up some videos of battery recycling to see what that involves). It would still be far less than the amount of oil that would be burned by a car driving the same miles. Also, it sounds like the Natural Gas lobby has wormed their way into your brain with the idea of hydrogen. They like hydrogen because they can make hydrogen out of Natural Gas. The problem there being that while the Hydrogen burns clean, the refining process from Natural Gas produces as much CO2 as driving a gasoline car. You can make Hydrogen using electricity, but that process is much less electricity efficient than EVs, and would be much more expensive at the pump per mile driven. It would not be terribly efficient. Also, building out a hydrogen infrastructure would be a LOT more work than hooking up charging stations. All in all, if we're all going to be shifting from gasoline cars to some alternative, most drivers should not go with Hydrogen. There are some practical uses for it, mostly in trucking and air travel, maybe for some drivers that travel extreme amounts of miles per day, but 99.9% of US drivers would be better off on EVs, which is why they are the focus. So if your argument is "nobody should drive cars of any type, then ok, I don't think that's practical, but it would at least be less polluting, but there is NO measure by which gasoline cars work out to be better for the environment than EVs.
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  8022.  @FastEddy1959  Trump's economy just coasted on the trends started by the Obama economy. Economically it was Obama's third term, aside from the various screw ups like Trump's tax cut for billionaires and the pointless tariffs on US businesses. Trump's foreign policy had no advantages, it only weakened relationships that we'd maintained since WWII and gained absolutely nothing. There were no advantages to lower taxes, it only raised the deficit and the national debt, and lower taxes on the wealthy are in no way "fair." Poor and minorities did not fair better under Trump, they just fairred well as the economic recovery Obama put into place continued to operate. Then a lot of them died because Trump flubbed our covid response. Also, you're thinking of Trump when you say "He showed us what it looks like when a corrupt president weaponizes various branches of the government (IRS, FBI, etc.) against his political opponents. " That is all stuff that Trump did, never Obama. What you're doing there is called "projecting." "Crimes? Cover-ups, corruption, and theft were the hallmarks of Obama’s administration. " Nope. Nobody in the Obama administration did anything criminal, whereas the Trump administration was riddled with indictments, and would have gotten more, given that all the oversight and watchdog groups were calling out their corruption left and right, but the corrupt Barr Justice Department would not actually prosecute any of the Trump Administration crimes because they were appointed to be corrupt themselves. I do at least agree that Trump will go down as our worst President, because of weak-will, indecisive, & ineffective management.
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  8086. You're right and wrong about the "niche." Thing. Elden Ring is not a niche, but also, the "Souls Masochist" is still a niche. The person who genuinely enjoys the brutality, is still a niche. The "most played" audience is not there for that, they are there because of the other aspects of the game, and the "git gud" mentality harms their enjoyment of it. Now, to "difficulty sliders," I agree that plenty of other games handle difficulty clumsily, but nobody is asking for a bad implementation of it, nor should From provide one. That doesn't mean that every implementation would necessarily be bad. "Leveling up" is not good enough, however, as leveling even using cheese tactics is far too grindy, and "playing normally" will never get you there. The "boulder trick" is way too grindy, and the better methods involve beating either Radahn or Godrick, and if I could do that, I wouldn't need to grind for levels. And then the scaling that leveling provides is not sufficient, even maxed out leveled and geared characters are not tanky enough to survive most encounters without learning "proper" tactics. A good difficulty option in this game would be to just make it so that "intended level" characters would be tanky enough to survive many "OHKO" hits from a boss without dying even once. The boss would have their full skillset, they would play identically, all that would change is the consequences of failing a skill check. Instead of failing one attack combo meaning you would need to restart that fight entirely, it would just knock you on your ass and you'd get back up and keep fighting. "Playing well" would require exactly as much skill as in hard mode, but "playing well" would not be necessary to complete a challenge. I hope I'm clear here. If you've seen one of those "not get hit even once" playthroughs of a game like this? Then what I'm talking about is a version in which if one of those players played it on this "easy mode," and did as well as he usually does, then the results of his playthrough would be identical to if he were playing it on normal. The boss would do all the same attacks, he would avoid them as usual, nothing would appear to be different, because the fundamentals would be identical. But if he were less skilled, and he started taking a bunch of hits, then in the normal mode a few of those in a row would add up to a wipe and rest, whereas in the normal mode, a few of those would be fine and the fight would continue. This would require no changing of AI or anything complex, it would jsut be tweaking things like HP scaling or Damage Negation to values several times higher than in the live game. I assume basic modders could do this will little effort, and I'm sure From could do it with even less. Combat difficult aside, while this game seems to have more checkpoints than previous Souls games, they still end up placing respawn points WAY too far from bosses in many cases. If losing a bossfight caused you to respawn within seconds, exactly outside the boss room, then it would be FAR less annoying than if it places you a thirty second run past several enemies and an elevator ride away from the boss. Placing stakes of marika right outside of a boss room would go a LONG way in this game, and while this sometimes happens, it is not remotely universal. So that's what I want to see 1. better ways to level up that don't require hours of pointless grind, 2. an optional method to scale damage at a much stronger effect than the current ingame scaling, such that even the toughest bosses aren't one-shotters, and 3. more Stakes of Marika, right up against the fogwalls. Btw, my current Elden Ring experience is that I'm at level 55, have unlocked the entire map up through the Capitol, but have not year beaten a Demigod. I've beaten a few midbosses and gotten to phase 2 on Renella. I really enjoy a lot about the game, but I really hate how the combat works and am very frustrated that I won't be able to continue exploring this world until I beat at least two of the bosses, each of the ones I've fought being able to oneshot me at least some of the time. I want to be able to play and enjoy it without needing that. I don't want to take anything away from people who enjoy Elden Ring for how it is, but I also want to enjoy it as much as they do, and I do not care a single bit about "it being against 'the point' of the game." I do not like that point.
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  8143.  @jsnip6720  All experts do agree that vaccines are not always perfectly safe, but the important part to remember is that they ALSO agree that an approved vaccine is MORE safe than NOT taking it. Right? Nothing in life is perfectly safe, that can't be the standard that we hold things to. Any food item on the shelf has some risk of causing harm under some conditions, so if we just wall ourselves off in a padded room until the outside world is perfectly safe than we will accomplish nothing. Modern vaccines are tested to the point at which they are determined to be safe enough that further testing will cost more lives in delaying than it is likely to save. The, after they are put into action, further testing will continue to take place along the way. There is zero net benefit to "further safety studies" prior to approval than are currently applied, because every month spent on "further safety studies" will produce less and less chance of discovering actual problems with the vaccine, and every such month will lead to lives lost from people who would have survived had they taken the vaccine. Take the most recent pandemic, it has been three years since the vaccine was distributed to the majority of Americans. In that time, there have been no serious complications related to it, and it has dropped the death and complications rate of the disease down to almost nothing for those vaccinated. For every month that the vaccine rollout had been delayed, thousands of American lives would have been lost unnecessarily. Why would you prefer that outcome?
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  8251.  @dingerling9017  Biology isn't ideological. Natural biological development can be an illness if it causes a decreased standard of living. Cancer, for example, is natural, and biological. If you can treat the condition and improve quality of life, then you should do that. We don't have pills that can make someone into Superman. If we did, we would have to consider the ethics of providing them to patients. We DO have treatments that improve the lives of trans people, and it would be unethical to withhold them on bad faith ideological grounds, such as "I don't accept that you are the gender you claim to be." The evidence does not support the idea that this is "a phase," all research into the topic indicates that while some kids do have a phase where they explore the idea of being a different gender and grow out of it, those that are serious about it tend to stick with that new gender for the rest of their lives. The medical position on the topic is that no permanent medical intervention should take place UNTIL they are serious about it, there are no situations in which a child goes "I think maybe I'm trans," and the doctor goes "ok, we'll schedule the surgery for Monday," that's NEVER how this works. Before any permanent steps are taken, the child will undergo years of therapy, and if they are not certain that this is what is best for them, nobody will pressure them into choosing otherwise. But if they ARE serious about it, if the choice is between growing into the body that will make )them_ happy, or into the body that would make you happy, then why do you believe it is in their best interests to please you?
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  8305.  @krankrocker  The MSM is not biased against Trump, Trump is just objectively as bad as the MSM portray him to be. It is anyone who presents him in a more positive light than that which is biased. If you call a pile of shit a pile of shit, that is not bias. If you call a pile of shit a bouquet of flowers, then that is bias. And the Trump campaign did collude with Russia, that was well documented in the Muller report and in the charges against Paul Manafort, for which Trump pardoned him to prevent him facing justice (or flipping on Trump). The only "scam" in that was in how right-wing media tried to hide that from viewers as best they could. As for Biden's mental stability, at the very least we can agree that he's considerably more stable than the last guy. He has a stutter, which impacts his public speaking, but only an idiot would be unable to tell that Biden is always on top of whatever subject he's discussing. As for Cuomo, he's the governor of NY. Psaki is the spokesperson for the President. The President really does not have anything to do with specific governors. Questions about Cuomo should be directed toward the spokesperson for the NY governor, not the President. And as for "helicopter questions," that was actually a clever trick the last administration used, because any time they asked him a softball, he would take a swing at it, while any time they asked him a hard question, he would pretend he couldn't hear them and move on. He did that a LOT. Biden does answer questions on the way to events though, if you haven't seen him doing so, it's probably because his answers were too good for right-wing media to allow it on-air.
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  8364.  @sjent  "All those people would not get infected and develop symptom at the same time. " Not at the exact same time, no, but we know for a fact that this virus moves FAST when left unchecked. Italy got hit fast, New York got hit fast. New York is already ABOVE its normal capacity and barely within its emergency capabilities. And that's WITH weeks of social distancing. If they had stopped that early, then they would be way over any possible capacity to deal with it. Plenty of other communities all over the country are similarly swamped. Yeah, even if we fully opened up not everyone would get sick literally at the same time, but this is a virus that takes about two weeks to present, and then, for the people hit hardest, will persist for about 3-4 more weeks, so cases tend to pile up. If we opened up, hospitals across the country would be over capacity within a month or so of that and plenty of people would die as a result. "Then how US end up where it end up, if it was such a better available path ?" BECAUSE we got such a shitty start, BECAUSE Trump did nothing for the first crucial months. If we'd been banning travel earlier, stocking up on testing kits earlier, stocking up on PPE earlier, if he hadn't disbanded the anti-pandemic taskforce so they would be on top of things sooner, if there had been nation-wide shelter orders sooner, we could have kept the cases low like in some other countries. The problem with a viral outbreak like this is that things snowball, if they start to get out of control, then they get VERY out of control VERY quickly. Think of it like a building fire. Ideally you want to put the fire out early, when it's small enough to douse with a small extinguisher, and if you do that, great. But if you don't start dealing with the fire until half the place it lit up, then you don't have the option of just making the problem go away, you need to use extreme measures to salvage any of the structure, and there's no point complaining about water damage or that it's inconvenient you had to miss your favorite show because those asshole firemen made you evacuate the building while they dealt with it. "Its equivalent of putting a tourniquet on persons neck to stop nosebleed. " No, it's the equivalent to putting a tourniquet around their arm to stop an arm bleed from bleeding them out. More accurately, it's a medically induced coma. Sometimes you have to knock a patient out to give their body time to heal. "How do you know that is was lack of social distancing that was to blame ? " Ok, what's your alternative explanation to why a place like New Orleans would see massively higher rates of the virus than other places, coincidentally right after having a massive street party? I'm open to ideas.
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  8365.  @sjent  "And there are other countries, states and cities that were not. You are presenting exceptions as a rule." No, I'm presenting the rules as the rules. Viruses don't come out of nowhere. They don't just spontaneously erupt everywhere simultaneously. They travel. They have a point of origin. So in any given region, there's nothing at all unusual about them having zero cases for long periods of time, because someone who has the virus has to travel there. And it's possible for outbreaks to contain themselves, because the people who have it just naturally socially distance, and it sputters out. But in the cases where A. multiple people have had the virus, and B. the people around them did not maintain social distancing, the virus erupts out of control and within weeks gets all over the place. Always. Every time. "So youre saying that despite imposed social distancing, it makes no difference ? That perhaps there are other factors involved ?" That's not even close to what I'm saying. You aren't paying attention. What I am saying is that without social distancing being implemented, NY would be WAY WAY WAY worse than it is today. Remember, viral outbreaks have lag. If you start doing a good thing today, then it will have very little impact on infections for a couple weeks, and very little impact on deaths for weeks after that. But that impact will eventually arrive. And if you do something bad today, it won't fix anything tomorrow, but it will make things better in a few weeks, and even better weeks after that. If NY had instituted the current social distancing guidelines two weeks earlier than they did, then instead of ten thousand deaths as of today, they might have been able to keep it to only hundreds, or even dozens. If they had instituted social distancing two weeks later than they did, then they would likely have had fifty thousand or more deaths by this point, but whichever they did, it would have seemed to make almost no difference for a week or two after. "Thats the problem. If you dont open up it may crash economy and many more die as result long after virus is gone. There is no good solution." There is no good solution, but opening up is the worse one, because the cost of "crashing the economy" does not result in more people dying than opening up would cause, even in the long term. The people dying from opening up would crash the economy either way, at least this way saves more lives. "If we did this and if we did that does not qualify as viable explanation. Being smart after the fact does not negate the fact that US response to the pandemic was really bad." I'm not saying the US response was good. The Federal response was, is, and will remain fucking awful because we have a muppet in the White House. I desperartely wish that weren't the case. But we're talking about the lockdown, and the lockdown has nothing to do with the federal government. The lockdown was caused by STATE governments, and the lockdown HAS been an effective measure taken to do whatever they can to slow things. Obviously this would have been more effective with better federal leadership, but that ship has sunk, so we're all left doing the best we can here, and the best we can do, for the time being, is to stay in lockdown. "in US itself people need money to feed themselves, to pay their bills. Businesses need revenue to continue to function." This is where government needs to step up. They need to provide people with the money they need to feed themselves until this is over. They need to provide businesses the money they need to tread water until this is over, so that when it is over, they can pick themselves back up and keep running. Like I said, this is like a medically induced coma, and if you put someone into a coma, but then just ignore them for weeks, yeah, they'll die, so you need to give them an IV drip of nutrients to keep them alive. We've gotten some of that so far, but we definitely will need more. I'm not saying they won't fuck this up, I don't trust them that far, but if they manage it well, it's the best path forward. "Really, right after ? You dont see the problem with this statement ? Like the fact that virus has up to 2 weeks incubation period ?" I factored that into my example. By "right after" I wasn't referring to "minutes later," I was referring to "after the incubation period had had the time to display impacts," which is how it actually happened. "Florida, for example, is a retirement state. And elderly are the highest risk group when ti comes to this virus." Yes, but it's not the elderly in Florida that turned out to be a specific issue for that state, it was spring breakers, who not only caused outbreaks across the state ( outside of retirement communities), but also spread it to their home/school communities when they returned.
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  8366.  @sjent  "And they have. We are not talking about some remote mountain village. Hundreds of people travel between states any any given day. It is extremely probable, statistically speaking, that at least some of them will be carriers." Yes, but it takes time. A few people entered the country with the virus before February. A few more after that. And they didn't evenly distribute, they landed largely in coastal areas, international airports. They interacted with people working there. This is a SLOW virus. It's a mean one, but slow, it takes a week or two to be noticeable, another week or two to put people into the hospital, and another week or two to kill, so the lag time between one person showing up and having a noticeable impact can be fairly long. It will reach those random rural areas, but it takes time, and the better everyone socially distances, the less likely that someone who happens to be a carrier will happen to go to a certain place, and happen to bump into people, who will happen to bump into other people. Without social distancing, if everyone is just going about their business, it spreads faster, but can still be hard to notice for weeks or even months in some places. "Except that world is not uniform and in different places it will manifest differently. So one carrier in state A will have different result that another carrier in state B. Boiling it down to just social distancing is fairly stupid. Especially considering how weak this virus really is." It's not "weak," more people have died from it already than in an entire year of the normal flu, and that's with aggressive measures to try and slow it down that we normally don't bother with. I hardly even ever get a flu shot, much less socially isolate myself. This virus is a serious killer, it's just a slow moving one. It's Jason, not Alien. "Its not even presumption, but pure assertion. There is no way of knowing that." Nonsense. "Good thing ? What good thing ? I see idiots wearing masks thinking it will save them. Completely oblivious to the fact that virus can enter thru the eyes." Well, yes, no, and maybe. One, virus is unlikely to just float directly into your eye and infect you that way. It's possible, but highly unlikely. Where the risk lies, is that if you get it on your hands and then touch your eye, that's a higher risk. Now wearing a lame face mask doesn't do a great job of protecting you from getting the virus, a really nice one can be fairly significant, but what even a lame mask does is limit the amount of virus you spread, since we know that this spreads before you even know that you're sick. So that's why it's socially responsible for you to wear a mask, not so that you don't get sick, but so that if you are sick and don't know it, you're less likely to spread it. Wearing the mask typically doesn't mean that you spread no virus, but it does reduce the range and volume of virus you could put out into the world, making it less likely for someone else to come into contact with it. Reducing likelihood is important. "After 2008 recession suicide rates jumped by at least 20%. And that is just one factor out of many." I would rather have people choosing to take their own life than people choosing to live be unable to because they got this virus. I do not care about suicide rate statistics. Bump up suicide hotlines and social services to try and minimize that effect as best they can, but if ten people taking their own lives saves one person willing to fight to live, then I'm all for that. "You must understand that this money is not coming from reserves, but simply new green paper is being printed. It is not covered by anything and will directly translate into even more debt. " You were the one just talking about suicide rates and the danger of a bad economy. Yeah, it drives up debt, and yeah, it would be nice if we had more of a cushion, if the Republicans had not driven us so far into debt before this started, but at the end of the day, "more debt" is still the better outcome than "the cost of not spending our way out of this." The US can sustain WAY more debt than even what we currently have, IF we put it to good use. Paying to mitigate the damage of this outbreak is a better use of that debt than a ton of other nonsense we've spent debt on over the past few decades. "They tried that during Great Depression, where factories were manufacturing cars and those cars then went directly onto scrap yard, to keep things going. Did not work out that well." That seems dumb. I would not pay businesses to do busywork, to make junk. I would either assign them to make things that we do need, like medical equipment, or I would just pay them to do nothing. Yeah, pay them to do nothing. He's some money to pay off your monthly expenses, so that you don't go bankrupt, but since your costs are lower than usual too, you don't have to keep the machines running or buy new materials, this should keep you afloat until it's time to move again. "Except that US is not self-contained economy. Not to mention that this IV is full of nothing but saline. US has no reserves." The US doesn't need reserves. It operates on a fiat currency which it controls. People are buying up treasury bonds like nobody's business. The US could run up tens of trillions of debt and we'd be fine. Obviously we shouldn't run up more than necessary, but in this case, it's necessary.
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  8367.  @sjent  "Death toll of OCVID-19, with all the number fudging is closing on 200k(realistically its probably around 40-50k, if that). Death toll of flu, at any given year is between 300k and 650k. Worldwide." I think you're missing the forest for the trees there. The flu is an endemic issue, it's already everywhere at any given time. CV is a novel outbreak, it started in one location and had to spread outwards from there, so it hasn't hit everywhere that it's going to hit yet. Numerous countries and regions have instituted historic lockdowns to slow the spread of CV, further reducing its impacts. You should not look at those death totals as a sign for relief, you should be concerned at how bad it is even though we're taking every measure possible to reduce it, and how much worse it would be if we just "let it happen." "COVID-19 can bypass mucous membrane as easily as it can get into your thru nose. It can be transferred by touching infected surface or by coming in contact with airborne droplets." Yes, but you're more likely to encounter the droplets by inhaling them than you are by just standing there and bumping into them. It's an active vs passive interaction. Again, we're talking odds here. And you can NOT get infected just by touching an infected surface, you need to touch that surface and then touch your eyes, nose, or mouth before disinfecting. You could technically get elbow-deep in a soup of CV and not get sick from it, so long as you kept it away from your airways and washed thoroughly afterwards. It is not bloodborne, it cannot pass through your skin, it needs to get directly into your lungs. "I dont even know what to say on that. I thought this whole discussion was on how to minimize damage." It is about minimizing damage. I can't be responsible for the choices of people who WANT to die. If I can save their life, I will, but if they are saying "you let that covid patient die or I'm going to cut my own throat," I choose the person who wants to live. If you tell me "course A will lead to more innocent people surviving this disease, but also lead to more people taking their own lives," then I will tell you, then that's the course we're taking, and we'll try to invest in suicide prevention as best we can, but ultimately it's their choice. "Its not just Republicans. This has been going on for past 40+ years, under various administrations. Its US Government in general, as institution." Don't pay attention to the presidents, pay attention to the congresses. If you track government spending and revenues over the decades, it's Republicans that tend to run up deficits. They tend to cut taxes to the bone while not cutting spending. Democrats do tend to raise spending some, but only on things that are actually worth spending on. If not for Republican priorities, the budget would be in a much healthier place, with less debt, and what debt we had would have gone to more useful projects. "Fiat currency that is rapidly losing it extremely inflated worth, as many countries are weening themselves off dollar." Nah. Remember how in 2008 Wall Street was "too big to fail?" The US is bigger. If the US "failed" it would devastate the global economy, and that will remain true for at least decades to come, and everyone knows that. Even much smaller countries are big enough that the global economy won't allow them to go under. It's a non-issue. National debt is a completely different substance than personal debt, and cannot be considered as if they are similar. It's like comparing plants to animals. Here' some info about recent Treasuries action: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/07/treasury-yields-edge-higher-as-investors-hope-for-coronavirus-slowdown.html
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  8368.  @sjent  "Question is, does stalling economy, that may lead to deaths of hundreds of thousands, worth to save maybe tens of thousands." In this actual situation? Yes, because if we're dealing in hypotheticals, then we have to accept that we would not be "saving maybe tens of thousands," but "maybe saving millions," because that's the hypothetical high end on this, the "if we did nothing" end. You're looking at the end results of extreme countermeasures and saying "well that wasn't so bad," completely ignoring how much worse the data indicates it would have been without those extreme countermeasures. There is no rational argument that "the cure is worse than the disease" in THIS case. "It always starts and ends with president. Federal budget is something that involves intricate back'n'forth between all branches of government." Not really. Presidents typically send congress a budget proposal, sure. And if the Congress is friendly to him, then that's what might end up on his desk, but if congress is hostile to him, then it won't look anything like that, because the budget proposal has no legal power. Congress has way more direct control over what does and doesn't make it into the budget, all the president actually gets to do is either veto it or not, so at the end of the process, he very often doesn't get a lot of what he wants, and has to swallow a lot of what he doesn't if the congress is hostile to him. Back to the point though, if you check the data, Republicans are MUCH more likely to run up deficits during periods of economic stability than Democrats are, while Democrats are much more likely to balance the budget. "Obama printed huge amount of money and wasted it on completely irreverent feelgood crap." Nope. Obama balanced the budget much more than Bush or Trump have done. The biggest spending blowouts from the Obama administration, which overshadowed the rest of it, was in the immediate aftermath of Bush's recession, where massive spending was needed to offset a much larger depression. That was a cure that prevented a larger disease too. "And there is nobody capable, not to mention willing, to bail US out." The US is. That's the point of large scale national governments, they are self-sustaining. They can't go bust. They don't need the same sorts of "bailout" that businesses or individuals need. They just refuse to die, and so it becomes. You just don't understand how global economics functions and are using overly simplified analogs.
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  8369.  @sjent  "Have to ? I dont have to do anything of sorts." Ok, perhaps I should have been more clear. You would have to if you wanted to claim to be making a rational and consistent position. "In fact it seems that they are grossly overestimated, by the factor of 100 at least." NO. That is the entire point! The intention of those projections was not sto say "this is the amount of people that will DEFINITELY die, no matter what." The point of those projections was to say "this is what would happen if we just behaved normally and went about our lives". The fact that we've come in under those projects is not a sign that they were wrong, it's a sign that we did things right to avert that outcome. A common analogy that I've seen, and which mostly applies, is "oh, it looks like our fall has slowed down, I guess we can ditch these parachutes now." Yes, right now we are below those projections, but only BECAUSE we have been "behaving weirdly" in response to the virus. As soon as we start "behaving normally" again, we start heading back towards what those projections said would happen. It wouldn't be quite as bad, because we stalled out a bit of it, but it would be a lot worse than if we kept up the pressure. "Many countries that do not have those countermeasures in place or have them in far milder state, also have fairly low infection and death numbers." Different countries, different circumstances. Some countries just didn't have a lot of international travel in the first place. Some do have a lot of cases but don't have a lot of testing so it's not as apparent. Some WILL be as bad as the US, but it just hasn't hit yet. The other factor is that these outbreaks grow exponentially, not linearly, so if a country jumps on top of things immediately, they can keep things mellow, while if they catch things even a week later, it can spiral out of control, even if both are doing the exact same things once they get going. The California Bay Area, for example, jumped onto their outbreak faster than most, and all else being equal their rates are TINY compared ot most places that have had an outbreak. But sure, maybe you know better than all the people who's job it is to understand these things, Mr. Dunning Kruger. "In addition to that it is a well known fact that countries like US have policy that forces medical personnel to mark anyone who died with COVID-19 as of COVID-19. To greatly inflate numbers and justify those extreme countermeasures." Lol. No, wait, people are dying. This is no time for lols. "Despite the fact that you yourself say that president can veto budget, you them state that president does not have much power over budget ? Do you know what logic is ?" Because the veto is a binary. Presidents have tired line-item vetoing before and it was declared unconstitutional, so basically they have to take it or leave it, and at some point, that means they need to take it to keep things running. It can be politically disastrous if a President vetos an otherwise more or less ok budget that passed both houses of Congress. Yes, the veto power means that the budget can't be completely offensive to the President's goals, but also he has little power over adding specific things he wants or trimming things he does not, beyond what Congress chooses to offer him. "Again, contradictions is same paragraph. So did Obama balance budget or did he overspend ?" He balanced the budget. The deficit he inherited went down considerably during his term in office. "Running up an enormous deficit and debt that made literally all presidents before him, combined, looking like extremely conservative spenders." Almost all the deficit spending he did was in his first year, cleaning up the Bush recession. Most economists believe he should have spent more during those early years which would have gotten us out of the recession faster. "Except that it is not. If US government is so "self-sustaining", then why it cant balance it budget for over 40 years ? Its the opposite of being self-sustained." Because balancing the budget wasn't the goal, growth was, so instead of balancing the budget, they spent that money on growing the economy. Not always in the most wise ways possible, sometimes in extremely dumb ways like the Trump tax cuts, but at no point did they attempt to balance the budget outside of the Clinton administration. It is worth pointing out that the budget WAS balanced after Clinton until the Bush tax cuts and wars blew it out again. We hadn't yet recovered the entire national debt or anything, but we would have if he'd just left things alone for a decade or so. "Greece is a perfect example of how one good hit can collapse this house of cards. " No, Greece is an AWFUL example because they DON'T control their own fiscal policy. They are part of the EU, and their monetary system is linked to the Euro. This means that they CAN'T "print their way out" of a problem like the US can. If they were independent, then they could have coasted right through that crisis. Now I do believe in the EU, and think that ultimately they should continue to grow and improve it, but they need to do a better job of protecting their member states in situations like that. It's basically like if a US state went bankrupt, which can happen. Their options for handling that are much more limited than the entire US has.
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  8370.  @sjent  "Riight, because there are only two positions - yours and the wrong one. " There could be others, but the one you were making at the time was not one of those. "Except that those "projections" were based on nothing." They were based on scientific analysis. That's how projections work, you use the available data and plot out where past experience would indicate something will go. This is like when they predict the path of a hurricane, and there are multiple models that all point in the same general direction but you don't like their answers so you pencil in your own and claim "it's all based on nothing." https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/D9r2X8iagrE0Q70AO9Q2BiEqvqA=/0x0:2678x1785/1200x800/filters:focal(807x730:1235x1158)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/65193692/1172289651.jpg.0.jpg "There is no reason to believe that those projections had anything to do with reality to begin with." Yes there is. "Real numbers are unknown and effect that those measures had on virus are unknown as well. but more we learn about this virus, more it becomes clear that those projected numbers are nonsense." No, again, the projected numbers were accurate, and remain accurate, IF we did nothing. Because we acted, it cut into those numbers. It's like if you have a crowd of 100 people, and a bus is barreling right for it, and you "project" that if the bus plows into that crowd at full speed then it will kill 35 people (I made that number up, but a scientist could arrive at a better calculation based on things like speed and momentum and fluid density and their result would be scientifically valid), then that would be the initial projection. Now, if that bus slowed down, causing it to impact the crowd with less force, allowing more people to get out of the way before it reached them, then far fewer people would die. That does not mean that those initial projections were wrong, just that the conditions that they were basing it on had changed. "Now all of a sudden you are on board with idea that those things cant be estimated with any degree with accuracy. All while being convinced that those measures were effective in US." I believe that they can be estimated accurately based on a given set of facts. "If we do nothing, X." "If we lock down, Y" "If we lock down this week, Z1," "If we lock down next week, Z2." Every country has their own circumstances, so every country needs to be predicted separately. Even individual states and counties need to be predicted separately, and you need to update those predictions based on how people change in response to the predictions. The virus doesn't change, it's behavior is the constant, but people are very flexible in reacting to that virus, so you always have to adapt the models as you go. The predictions are still important though as a way of letting people know where the current course will lead them. "Define "tiny" and what are those "most places" ?" https://s.hdnux.com/photos/01/11/56/04/19325186/21/420x0.jpg "Closest Obama came to balanced budget was deficit of 442 billion in 2015. Only two people had it higher. Trump - that guy puts Obama to shame with his rabid spending. And George W Bush with 459 billion in 2008, and it was highest deficit when he was in office." But Obama did reduce the deficit he inherited from Bush. I mean that's the thing, you can't just wave a wand and balance the budget, it's a giant ship that turns slowly. You can't just say "well we're going to stop spending any money now," because the entire country would implode. If you want to reduce the budget you need to do it slowly over time so that necessary services continue to operate. The changes Bush made made it impossible to balance the budget in only eight years, but Obama did bring the budget closer to balanced than where he found it. He made it better, not worse. Then Trump blew it up again. "There was this thing called dot-com bubble, that went off like nuclear bomb in late 2000. It damage is comparable to that of 2008 recession(6.2 trillion for dot-com and 6 trillion for 2008), yet Bush did not go on a spending spree and his deficit remained fairly reasonable capping at 290 billion. Comparing to Obama 1.5 trillion it was pocket change." One, the Bush tax cuts caused a long term deficit problem, not just a one-year deficit problem. A lot of the deficit in Obama's term would not have existed without thos Bush tax cuts being in place, but it's a lot harder to get tax raises passed than tax cuts. Two, Bush's policies led to the 2008 recession that blew up the economy during most of Obama's first term. Three, you don't seem to be factoring in Bush's $700 billion TARP program. Again, a president doesn't get to just decide how much the deficit should be in a given year, so year-on-year figures only tell part of the story. The bigger part is what structural changes they apply, and how those changes impact the next years and decades.
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  8371.  @sjent  "You cant be seriously comparing predicting hurricanes with predicting spread of a virus. " True, Hurricanes are much harder to predict. Way more variables. "How stupid do you need to be to push this narrative ? Whole notion of projections is that they are just a guess. Claiming that they are accurate, without having any evidence to support this claim, is nonsense." If they were just guesses, then they wouldn't be projections. Projections are based on data analysis, that "based on what we know now about this virus, and based on what other, similar viruses have done under similar situations, the current virus is likely to do X." They aren't just pulled out of thin air, they are calculations based on prior trends, the same as hurricane predictive models. The only real difference is that while hurricanes are completely outside of human control to modify, viral projections can be greatly impacted by human interaction with them. The initial models were based on expectations of "if no changes are made to confront this virus," and now, since drastic efforts were made to confront it, the outcomes have shifted relative to the projections. It's like if you have a car driving towards a wall, you can calculate "I project that in ten seconds we will hit that wall with a force of X Newtons," but then if someone sees that, and hits the brakes, the projection is no longer accurate, the car might not hit that wall, or hit with less force. That does not mean that the projection was wrong, just that you're trying to insist upon it a goal that it never had. "In this case, there is no way to predict how many people will die." Sure you can. Not 1:1, obviously, but you can get a ballpark figure. You can estimate the force at which the first people would get hit. You could project how quickly the bus would slow down and how much force would be inflicted on people behind them. You could then take that force data, and using prior data collected on what X amount of blunt force does to a human body, and you could come up with a reasonable estimate of how many people would die from such a collision. Let's say that figure was 6. Would the actual result be 6? Probably not, but it'd likely be within the 3-9 range. It wouldn't likely be "none" and wouldn't likely be "20" either, assuming the methodology was reasonable. ". If bus were to slow down, if would still hit with force, due to it mass, that would kill most people in it direct path, but as it would start weer off and tumble, it would have far greater path of destruction, in addition to that it would be sending everything it hits flying in different directions, resulting in numerous impacts all around it." A bus is not a bullet, it will not "tumble" upon impact with some humans, especially at low speeds. Humans aren't likely to even get it to tip over, much less roll. "Did you miss that little line on this chart that says "US average" ? Bay area is not tiny compared to most places, its just that few places are far above average." One, the Bay Area is still way below that average. If that were all there was to the story, their result would still have been significant. Two, the US average takes into account tons of places that have had few to no cases, because they are too far separated from outbreak locations. They will likely get hit harder at a later date. Remember that this is a virus, it grows exponentially from outbreak sites, it doesn't just spontaneously grow linear everywhere at once. Areas with little to no exposure are likely to remain with little or no cases for long stretches of time, and are less likely to ever get that bad. The Bay Area is a "likely outbreak location" given its significant international exposure, climate, and population density. There's every reason to believe that they would have been one of those "far above average" locations if nothing had occurred to alter their trajectory from the "natural" state. That it kept the curve low should be seen as an anomaly to any rational observer. If you disagree that the standard social distancing/lockdown methods are responsible for that outcome, you should at least have an alternate theory beyond "just because." Btw, this is a nice short video about how some of the more recent visual aid graphs functions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-3Mlj3MQ_Q It explains why certain comparisons may seem misleading. "Bush, total deficit over 8 years - 3.293 trillion. Obama, total deficit over 8 years - 6.781 trillion." I feel the need to repeat, the deficit is not just the amount spent during a given year, it is STRUCTURAL. A President cannot EVER say "I will just decide to spend X money this year." That's not how the Federal budget works. A President is obligated by decisions made by previous administrations that the US will spend X amount of dollars over the next 5, 10, 20 years. Untangling that is a lot of work. When Obama took office, the US was obligated to spend trillions more over his administration, and if he'd done nothing at all, then that's what would have happened. Over his tenure, he reduced that amount each year. What is important to track is what structural changes they make to the budget, what revenues they add or remove, what costs they add or remove, and by that mesure, Obama cut costs to the federal budget over his tenure. "Only ? Hitler rebuild Germany in 5 years. Into power that swept over most of the Europe. Granted Germany was neck-deep in debts, but at least he had something to show for it." I would prefer not following Hitler's example. "Did you knew that due to US debt-oriented economy it experience financial crashes about every 15 years ?" These crashes have nothing to do with government spending, they have to do with Republican policies of low Wall Street regulation. Democrats have put forth numerous proposals to fix this, but can't get it past Senate Republicans. "I would prefer that government would not be involved in such activities in general." I would prefer ti too, except when it is needed, in which case they need to do it to prevent even worse alternatives. I mean ideally we would be better regulating big business so that they can't get themselves into such precarious positions in the first place, but if they are about to tumble over and crush the economy, then it's better for the government to bail them out (ideally with enough strings attached to prevent it happening again later), than to just allow the crash to happen and drag the economy out of the rubble.
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  8372.  @sjent  "When it comes to viruses, it is impossible to predict their emergence or how they will evolve." No more impossible than hurricanes, so long as you don't factor human behavior into it, which is why the predictive models were based on :if we did nothing," and why they deviated significantly when we "didn't do nothing," and will go back to the nightmare scenarios if we "stop doing anything." "True. Except that predictions for COVID-19 could only be made based on similar viruses, like same SARS, as i have mentioned previously." And also based on how they acted in China early in this, and updated to reflect how they have behaved around the world since. "As it is done intentionally to promote panic." To what purpose? Are the scientists super villains to you? In it for the lulz? "Hurricanes generally follow same pattern, with little deviations, while virus can mutate and everything goes out the window. We cant even accurately predict it spread." Viruses don't mutate in ways that would make them terribly unpredictable, any more than minor fluctuations can send a hurricane left when it might have gone right and it ends up thousands of miles off course. Viruses mutate over a period of years, and that typically only results in a change to how well immunized people who already had it are. That's irrelevant to the current situation. Predictive models have nothing to do with such mutations, they are based on evaluating the transmission and lethality rates of the existing virus, and then extrapolating from there, and so far the predictive models have been accurate, so long as nothing was changed about the target location. Predict the course of a bowling ball and how many pins it'll knock down, fine, but then remove several of those pins from play before the ball reaches them, and the result will be entirely different, that does not mean that the prediction was wrong. "This example is completely rubbish, as aside of the fact that "car" exists we know very little about it.We dont know it size, speed, composition, load, mass, etc. Very little of relevant data is available." In my example I'm assuming that we know the physical properties of the car and the road surface well enough to make accurate predictions. That's part of the initial premise. Likewise, when the Covid predictions were made, they were based off of data out of Wuhan, and the data being used has held up under subsequent investigations. It does have the infection rate the models were based on, it does have the lethality rate the models were based on, and the models remain accurate in situations where social distancing was not applied and cases were emergent. "You clearly do not understand physics. Even slow-moving object can flip if it hits obstacle under right conditions. For as long as there is enough force and a proper vector." There would never be enough "force" or "vector" in a crowd of people to flip a slow-moving bus. The only way that a bus would flip like that is if there were something significantly sturdier and smoother than a mass of people, like an actual ramp, applied to only one corner. People will just slow it down. "Its not a movie or game where you can just mow down zombies in hundreds." But neither is it a movie of a video game in which any random collision results in the vehicle doing a backflip (which in movies typically requires springs, mounted explosives, or cables). "And... ? Majority of areas are below that average, as few areas are far above it. This is how averaging works." Keep reading. . . It is way below the average AND it has all the conditions that would put it ABOVE that average if they were not behaving effectively. If some tiny town in the middle of nowhere is below the average, that is no surprise, there are plenty of reasons why no outbreak would occur there. When a major, international city with known outbreaks is way below the average, there is a reason for that beyond random chance. If you cannot accept that very simple premise then I cannot accept that you are acting in good faith. "And it has. For three months. If you think that it will take it a year to reach it peak infection rate, then you are a moron." Again, depends on social distancing. If we'd done nothing, it would have reached its peak in most places over the previous and following months. Because of social distancing, the peak has flattened out for now, but is likely to plateau for many months to come. If we stop social distancing, we might reach that peak within the next couple months again, but, again, at much higher infection and fatality rates. "Simple fact is that most people already got it and got thru it without even noticing it." In some places, yes. In the US as a whole, you must be joking. If you actually believe that to be the case, then I am sad for you. you have a rough year ahead of you. "No, there is not. Places with significant international exposure, population density and climate are dime a dozen. Bay Area is not some unique hub for travel, all roads do not lead to SF." That's my point. It's not unique. It has a similar profile to major cities like LA, NYC, DC, NO, Chicago, Seattle, etc.,*and yet* it has maintained a MUCH lower Infection rate. It is WAY below the US average, and while obviously large portions of the US would be below that average, common sense would indicated that the low end of that average would be made up of communities with smaller, more isolated communities that have has few incoming cases. They aren't "below the average for a major metropolitan area," they are "below the average that includes the middle of Kansas." It's also worth keeping in mind that this is based on imperfect testing. The Bay Area has had more testing than most areas, so what cases they do have, included on that graph, would more accurately reflect the reality of their situation, whereas a lot of other communities "below the average" have seen little to no actual testing, so their actual rates, not reflected on that chart, would trend significantly higher. "That study from Stanford, where they tested people and a huge amount of people were found to already having antibodies for virus, without actually being officially infected, kinda shows how little we know about this virus. Or how (in)effective those "counter-measures" are." I think you misunderstand what is happening there. Those people had been infected, they just did not display symptoms. That's one of the things that makes this virus so dangerous, that people can "look fine" but still be contagious. Ebola, by contrast, is a lot less risky as a pandemic, since if you have enough Ebola going on to be infectious, you look like a hot mess and are easily contained. "No, hes not. In fact every next president tends to trash a lot of what previous president started. Obama joined Paris Agreement, Trump said "fuck that". Dances around taxes is a goof example as well - democrat rises them, republicans slash them." They can try to change things, but typically that takes an act of Congress, and some things are easier to manage than others. Again, the President can't just decide to ignore previous budgets, they can only take action to change them. In many cases, backing out of a previous deal costs more than staying in it. "Here we go again. Every president, on both sides, has given ground and helped banksters. Yet some morons still try to pile it all on Republicans." Because when it happens during a Democratic president, he only did it because Republicans in Congress held major priorities hostage if he didn't agree to those changes, like when they try to shut down the government unless they get their way. It's always the Republicans that get the ball rolling, all Democrats have ever been guilty of is not stopping them when something more immediate was needed. "No. Period. Once government gets involved, it will always go downhill. At first it may seem good, but further it goes, worse it will get." Lol, government is the only hope we have against the corporations. They may not be perfect, but they're all we've got. Even you agree with that, noting that government hasn't done enough to thwart the big bangs and Wall Street. Well, without any government intervention, there would be even less standing in their way. "No. Again. This mindset is exactly what causes those problems. At first those businesses are doing whatever they want. and avoid paying taxes. But when things get hard, they just expect taxpayers to bail them out. It always seem to go in one direction." I agree, but it's still better to bail them out than to allow them to collapse, in some cases, at least. Now that doesn't mean that you should let them just go back to business as usual, there should be iron strings attached to those bailouts to limit their ability to do it all again. The Democrats imposed some of those onto the most recent bailouts, and wanted to impose more, but the Republicans fought them on it tooth and nail, and nothing could get passed without passing the Senate. I have zero sympathy for the businesses themselves, but a lot of innocent people would get caught in the crossfire if they were just allowed to implode, and the rich people who build, invest in, and run those businesses would walk away with millions either way, so allowing the business to die would not be punishing them in any practical way.
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  8498.  @dylanharnettmarshall9700  Well, first, the mandate side is not his ENTIRE position, so even if someone agrees that mandates should not exist, that does not mean that RFK Jr is cleared of being a nutbar. Second, name me one vaccine that is actually mandated. One in which there are no exemptions, no options, you are absolutely forced to take it or jailed. Three, Have you ever heard the term "no shirt, no shoes, no service?" Same applies to vaccination. If someone does not want to get vaccinated, that is their business. If that person wants to engage in polite society, then they will have to meet certain minimum standards of safety. If they want to drive, they will need a license and follow road rules. If they want a home, they will have to meet various building and property management codes. If they want to ride on a plane, or be hired by a company, they will need to follow the rules that these companies believe keep their other employees safe. If they don't want to follow those rules, they don't need to access those privileges. One would have to be a fool to point to the recent pandemic as an example of "this working poorly." The countries that took pandemic safety and vaccine adoption more seriously than the US did saw MUCH lower death rates over the course of it. I would view that as a total win for mandates, wouldn't you? Frankly, if someone agreed with me about anti-vaxers and yet took the stand that vaccine mandates are a bad thing, then I would view them as morally worse than the anti-vaxers, since they should at least know better, and are choosing evil.
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  8518.  @chuckles3265  People who want to murder will continue to try, they will just not be as successful at it without guns. If a mass shooting turns into a mass stabbing, then it becomes much more likely that the attacker will be caught and that the intended victims will survive the attack. There will ALWAYS be people who will want to do crimes, which is why the whole "don't blame the gun, blame the criminal" argument is idiotic. It's impossible to prevent those with criminal intent form attempting crimes. But what you can do is reduce their access to tools that make them EFFECTIVE at it. And no, we don't need to ban all other devices that might be used as a weapon, because those are not as effective as guns. The goal is to REDUCE the amount of murders, and removing guns would provably do that. In countries like the UK and Australia that passed gun bans, their crime and murder rates dropped. Even today, they not only have fewer gun deaths than in the US, which would be expected, but also fewer knifing deaths. Their TOTAL murder rates went down. If the theory that "well if you take the guns away, criminals would just find some other method" actually applied, then when you removed guns, murder rates would remain flat. We know for a fact that this is not how it works, so that theory cannot be correct. As for criminals getting guns, again, not true. While some criminals would still be able to get some guns, they would be able to get far LESS of them, so less harm would result. We again know this for a fact from the countries that have tried. UK criminals are no less interested in having a gun than US criminals, and yet still gun crimes are way down in the UK, so clearly criminals do not have unlimited access to guns. Most guns that criminals use in crime are either directly purchased from a law abiding gun shop, or they are directly purchased from someone who bought that gun in a legal gun sale, or they are stolen from someone who legally purchased their gun. If you remove all those legal paths to trade and transport guns, then it becomes MUCH harder for a criminal to gain access to one, especially the more amateur criminals like mass shooters, revenge murderers, and junkies looking to mug someone. Black markets will still exist, but with much more limited supply, and much harder for a person to find. These are the absolute facts as shown by previous cases in which it has been done. These facts might make you angry, because you really WANT the facts to be on the side of guns, but I'm sorry, the facts are on the side of life, instead.
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  8523.  @chuckles3265  I'm for any reasonable steps that are available that would reduce the number of guns out there in the world. It doesn't have to be "all or nothing," and we should never let the perfect be the enemy of the good. I can see a reasonable purpose for some access to hunting rifles, and if low-capacity hunting rifles were the only guns available then I think that the amount of crime done with them would be a tiny fraction of what currently takes place. I also see a place for sport shooting, but feel that such guns could be stored entirely in secure facilities, rather than in people's homes. I see no particular justification for having personal possession of guns in the home, much less on someone's person during a normal day. The theory is that this somehow makes people "more safe," but the evidence does not bear this out, as gun ownership increases the odds of someone dying from a gun, and even though the US has far more guns than any other country, we also have a higher murder rate, which is the opposite of the result if it were true that guns in any way increased public safety. It would be like claiming that covering yourself in meat is a good way to prevent shark attacks. I don't think that there is any valid purpose for civilians to own handguns (again, outside of the exclusive possession of a secured shooting range). As for mental health, sure, we could always do with better mental health education and access, that'd be great. I don't think it's the defining issue here though, as while some countries handle mental health better than the US does, it's far from universal even among other first world countries, and I don't believe there is any direct correlation between quality mental health and lowered homicide rates. We do know that in countries that banned firearms and assault weapons there were direct reductions in homicide rates shortly afterward though, so that is a much more clear correlation. so it's not an "either or" thing, sure do better on mental health issues, and that would help, but plenty of gun violence has nothing to do with mental illness, so that's only a small part of the problem. Getting the guns off the street would have a much stronger benefit.
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  8540.  @DeathlordSlavik  It's a myth that guns are "often used in self defense." People just feel more comfortable with a gun in their hand, waving it around like a maniac, whether it makes them safer or not. There was an Air Force Veteran in Texas a couple years back that was using his gun in self defense, and was murdered by another guy who was claiming to be using self defense, was convicted of it, and might get pardoned of the murder by the Texas Governor. Both of them had guns, both of them were "suing them defensively," neither would be dead and neither in jail if neither of them had had guns. Look, people can claim that guns can be used defensively all they want, but they need to back it up with evidence that this actually WORKS. The US has more guns than ANYONE ELSE. If "guns as a defense" actually WORKED, then the US would be the safest country on the planet. Instead, we have a murder rate 4 times other first world nations. How would that work if guns make people safer? And no, "demographics" has nothing to do with it. Don't buy into that mess, it's just a racist dogwhistle. Plenty of the other first world countries with lower crime rates have complex "demographics," they just have fewer guns. Most of the people who murder people with guns are white anyway. Murder is more likely to occur in urban areas than rural, because people are more densely packed and more likely to come into immediate contact, but plenty of murders happen in rural areas too, it's not like rural people are just "better" somehow. And I don't agree that a country is somehow "less free" if they are mean to you if you commit violence on your neighbors. "The freedom to shoot others" is not a freedom that I respect or care about. I care about the other freedoms, like fair elections, free speech, anti-discrimination laws, etc., and the other first world countries are no less free than the US in any way that matters. Also, you appear to MASSIVELY misunderstand Franklin's quote. If we were to apply what he actually meant to gun control, then his argument would be that YOU are the one sacrificing the long term freedom that comes from a nation without guns, in exchange for the short-sighted "freedom" that you feel when you have a gun in your possession. You are trading away ACTUAL safety in exchange for a false sense of security, which is EXACTLY what Franklin was against.
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  8542.  @DeathlordSlavik  All the areas in the country where guns are allowed are still much less safe than countries where they are not. If a criminal has to choose between a target that he knows has a gun verses one that he knows is unarmed, would he choose the latter? Probably, that's a very child-like logic puzzle. But you also have to consider that when a nation makes guns illegal, criminals are much less likely to have guns, so people are much less likely to be a victim of a gun. And if everyone had guns, then that wouldn't mean criminals would be less likely to do crimes, it just means they would be more careful about shooting first. That's the thing, a criminal might avoid people they know to be armed, but if they intend to attack someone who might be armed, they will be much less hesitant to shoot. If they even think you might have a gun, they will shoot first, ask questions later. This is also what leads to much higher police shootings in the US than in other countries. You present a simple scenario, but the real world is not that simple. As for the Urban/rural divide, while the death rate in urban areas is 20% higher than in urban areas, you are right that if we ONLY count homicides, the murder rate in urban areas is higher. It's really not by that much though. And not, they do not have "totally different values," they just have different population densities. Again, you seem to have bought into all the old tired racist dog whistles, hook, line, and sinker. "Nothing edgy about what I said it is just a simple fact and crying about it wont help you." Lol.Do you have a vampire cape on when you say things like that? Are the lights out so that you can brood in the shadows? XD
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  8543.  @DeathlordSlavik  No, again, it is more dangerous to live in a purely urban US area than in a country with better gun control. Sorry. And again, criminals will choose the safest available ways to do crime, but there is no point at which they just go "well, crime is too dangerous, I guess I won't crime now, ./shrug." They will do crimes anyway. So the more guns are out there, yes, the more risk for them, but also, the more risk for their victims, because the more risk the criminal takes on when doing a crime, the less careful they are to not harm the victim. And yes, without guns, criminals will just use other tools to commit their crimes, and as a result, murder rates go WAY down. On the same day that someone killed 27 people in Sandyhook using a rifle, a man went on a knifing rampage in China and injured 27 people. Let me repeat that, injured 27 people, not one life was lost, because knives are just a much less efficient killing tool than guns. In countries like the UK that got rid of large sectors of their guns, their overall crime rate didn't go away, but it didn't get worse either, people switched to other weapons, and those other weapons caused less death. Most of your other arguments seem to be fairy tales invented by the Faux News to explain the world around their audience. "Oh, California decriminalized crime, and the majority of people shot by police brought it on themselves," Lol. I'd hate for you to find out Santa isn't real. I'm glad that you at least agree that people in urban areas have better values than those in rural areas, given their voting trends. So see, take away the density and they would most likely have considerably less crime, if anything. "Can't counter what I said so you cry about things being edgy just like how you cry about things being racist. Seems that is all you do when you encounter points that you have no counter for that or you just straight up ignore the points and redirect to something else." Oh, this is just adorable. xD
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  8544.  @DeathlordSlavik  You do realize that plenty of people still do crime even in countries that are complete warzones and everything is violent, right? People don't do crime "because it's easy," they do crime because they don't see any alternative in their life, because they don't want to starve and be homeless, but can't get any legal work that would pay their rent. Crime is directly correlated to poverty, not to "laziness." So, again, making crime more risky will not in any way deter crime, if that were true then you would expect crime to have shot up in places that once had guns and then banned them, but that did not happen. All that changes if you make crime riskier is that it causes the criminals to take LESS risks, by shooting first and asking questions later, rather than taking the chance that their intended victim might be armed. And again, while it is impossible to stop ALL murders, murder rates PROVABLY do go down, since "other tools" are just not as efficient as guns. You can run from a knife, you can block a knife, there are plenty of ways to handle an attacker with a knife that just don't apply to one with a gun. A gun can produce lethal wounds on dozens of people in the time it would take for a knife to cause maybe a couple of wounds that aren't likely to be fatal. You can kill with a knife, but the odds are against it. So if you have a dozen wannabe murders, and all of them have no trouble buying an AR-15 at a gun shop (as is currently the case), then they can kill a total of dozens, if not hundreds of victims. If, on the other hand, you have those same wannabe murderers, and they have no legal access to guns, then maybe one or two of them can find some sort of illegal gun to use, and cause a few murders that way, and maybe the rest would use knives or bats or whatever other devices they could cobble together, but most of those would probably fail to kill anyone, or at most 1-2, instead of dozens. You can't prevent all murders, but you can save the lives of THOUSANDS by removing the guns as an option. And you present another fairy tale, the "good guys with a gun" that stop crimes in progress. More gunmen have been stopped by unarmed civilians than have been stopped by other civilians with guns, even in areas where some of the people around were armed. I know the cowboy hero fantasy is fun and all, but please grow out of it, because it doesn't actually make any sense in the real world. You claim that the values of city people don't make sense, and yet the Tennessee legislature voted to ban drag shows and kick out two black elected representatives (from urban areas) for speaking out of turn, but have NOT yet acted to do anything about the six people murdered using guns in their state. Most of those Tennessee representatives were put there by rural people, because that is how the state is gerrymandered. Rural people could not have a lower ground to be standing in.You're just fine with that, because the swamp is your home.
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  8546.  @JacobAnawalt  I think that in the case of many police involved shootings, the officer was so some degree in the wrong. Not all of them, but there are plenty of cases in which the suspect was unarmed, no threat to the officer, and yet still got shot. Those are the sorts of stories that tend to make the news, because they are the ones in which an injustice has taken place. The stories in which the criminal was clearly armed and dangerous and the shooting was entirely justified don't tend to be considered "news," because nothing unexpected happened there. Dog bites man. And we do also know from various trials and the open admission of officers that they often plant weapons on shot suspects where possible. Again, this is not every time, but it does happen, so any claim that a suspect was armed needs to be taken with a grain of salt. It would be nice if that weren't the case, but this is the world we live in. I don't entirely blame police for shooting first and asking questions later, they almost have to, because in the US there is such a high likelihood that a suspect WILL be armed. If they have "an object" on them, it could easily be a gun, and better an innocent suspect dead than the officer, right? But it doesn't have to be that way, in countries that have fewer guns, officer-involved shootings are WAY down. I don't excuse any criminal who shoots anyone, police or otherwise, they deserve to be held 100% accountable for their own actions, but only punishing the criminals after the fact will NEVER reduce gun violence in this country. Yes, the criminal is responsible for his own actions, but anyone who helped him to get that gun was an accomplice in his actions, and they deserve to be held accountable as well. Now as for Ukraine, they are at war right now. The Ukrainian government handed out a ton of rifles in the month or two leading up to the war. If the US mainland ever came under threat of invasion, and the US military and police did not feel up to handling the problem, they would have NO trouble issuing M-4s to any civilian willing to fight, and getting them distributed before ANY foreign power could mobilize in force on US soil. There is ZERO need for American civilians to already be armed for war during peacetime.
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  8549.  @DeathlordSlavik  And yet crime in rural areas is not that much lower than in urban areas. Again, it's not that urban people are somehow "worse" in any way than rural people, they are just packed closer together. Take a dozen crabs and put them in a 100ft pen, they aren't likely to fight. Put the same crabs in a bucket, and they might tussle. Really, if anything, if rural people weren't worse than urban people, on average, then there would be a lot less crime in rural areas than there is. It's also important to point out that the poverty rate in rural areas is not much lower than in urban areas. And no, we know from actually trying it that "increasing risk" only deters crime so much. You want to have some risk in the system, just to give some incentive to not do it, but the more you squeeze on that balloon, the bigger the other side gets, crime WILL still occur, ALWAYS. There is no level at which you can just make crime stop happening. We're well past that point in the US already. And we do know that removing the guns DOES, IN ABSOLUTE FACT, reduce the overall murder rate, because, again, it has been tried. Both the UK and Australia reduced access to guns, and as a result, gun crimes went way down, but also ALL murder went down. Knife crimes and other types of murders did not go up to the same level that gun crimes previously filled. Again, there will always be criminals, criminals will always try to do crimes, but without guns, criminals will FAIL far more often. Btw, I did find some good examples of "defensive gun use." A week or so ago, a Kansas City man shot a young man twice for the crime of ringing the wrong doorbell. A few days ago, an upstate New York woman was shot and killed for the crime of pulling into the wrong driveway to turn around. Just yesterday, a Texas cheerleader was shot for the crime of accidentally trying to enter the wrong car in a parking lot, realizing her mistake and returning to the correct vehicle, and accidentally catching the car owner's bullets as he fired at the several cheerleaders in the car with her. Than God we have guns to save responsible gun owners like these. And that was just within the past week.And all of these were in "rural areas."
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  8552.  @DeathlordSlavik  Again, I'd already countered those, there was nothing left to argue because they were not valid points. You demanding that I counter them does not make them valid. Did you look into the story with the six year old that got shot? If he had not had a gun, he would not likely have caused as much harm as he did. The same applies to the several other shootings that have happened this week alone. Again, removing guns wouldn't prevent ALL harm in the world, but it would certainly REDUCE the harm caused. I believe I already told you about the case of the man in China where, the same day the Sandyhook shooting killed 27 people, this man in China went on a similarly deranged rampage in China, but since he only had a knife instead of a gun, he injured 27 people, but killed ZERO. It is just much easier to avoid, disable, or survive a knife than a gun. If "Defense against criminals" were a valid reason for it, then the US would have a lower crime rate than other first world countries. Instead it is higher, even in rural areas. There is NO evidence that American access to guns in ANY way makes ANY Americans more safe than without them. "Defense against rioters" is not an issue, people have nothing to fear from rioters. America has more of a problem with gun owners causing harm to protesters than it does with gun owners needed to fight "rioters." "Defense against government" is also a non-issue in the US. We have the ballot box for that. "The government" IS the people in this country. If at some point that changes, and the US military is turned against the people, America's civilian gun owners would be ZERO defense against that, because the capabilities of the US military far overwhelm idiots with their toys. Besides which, if the government ever did become authoritarian, it seems more likely that the gun owners would side with them, rather than against them. I mean, say the Jan 6th insurrection had actually worked and Donald Trump were still in office on Jan 21st, do you really imagine America's gun owners rising up to depose him? And "defense against invaders" is also irrelevant, because we already have the strongest military on Earth, and the most well armed police forces on Earth, and even if an invading force were somehow able to overwhelm both of those, it would still take months for ANY military on Earth to mobilize against the US mainland, which we would see coming and have time to prepare, allowing the US military to pass out M4s to anyone who wanted one. If Ukraine had time to do this when Russia is right down the road from them, why do you believe the US military would be incapable of doing so? So that's four attempts to justify civilian gun ownership, not one of them passes muster.
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  8554.  @stevemahoney1733  I don't believe in news with "sides." I believe in news that is ACCURATE. The middle point between "accurate" and "biased" is still biased. If you take two biased accounts, there is no way to guess where the truth lies, it could be anywhere in between. I would not object to "defending decorum," if the punishment fit the crime. Expulsions from the legislature are pretty rare, and generally only accompanied by actual CRIMES taking place, not just "general rudeness." If those same standards were applied in the US congress and applied fairly, then half the Republican delegation would have been kicked out already. And again, citing the source you did as "potentially useful" casts serious doubt on your judgement. Have you ever heard of the Dunning-Kruger effect? Are you aware that most people believe they are of above average intelligence? Do you understand the problem with that statement? 1. There were no false allegations made against any SCOTUS nominees. Which ones do you believe were false? 2. The Republican majority in the Tennessee statehouse determined for themselves that the accusations had merit, and issued a censure. That was his "trial," in so far as the legislature rules provide. There was no actual court case to it. Similar to Trump's impeachments, while they agreed that he did the crime he was accused of, they decided to not punish him for it, while they later decided that speaking out against guns on the legislature floors was grounds for expulsion. They clearly care more about guns than they do that representatives female employees, and this comes as a surprise to no one.
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  8803.  @SirAlric82  So your argument is that even though "their ideology" has never been attempted before, "their ideology" must suck because other ideologies with the same name failed? That makes total sense. I don't think it was at all a coincidence that so many communist countries went bad. I think that it was geopolitics. I think that the first communist country was Soviet Russia, and that most other countries in the early 20th Century were rabidly anti-communist, to the point that they elected people like Hitler and Mussolini to keep the communists out. any country that did attempt to go communist was ruthlessly crushed by outside powers as best they could be. This meant that what communist countries did emerge tended to be politically aligned with Soviet Russia, at least in their formative years, and as they say, "lie down with dogs, wake up with fleas." No communist nation has yet formed that was not ideologically founded on Soviet Russia as a base, and that is no communism at all. It's also worth pointing out that many of the capitalist nations that the west supported in the Cold War were no less authoritarian and harmful to their own public than the Soviets. It was the right call to make at the time from a geopolitical standpoint, but no basis on which to judge the efficacy or fairness of a political ideology. As to your second point, there is no political system on Earth that can allow people to say "no, I don't want to do that." No nation in the world functions like that. Everyone must follow the rules of the nation they are in or face punishment for it. The difference between a good nation and a bad one are that in a good nation the rules and punishments are both faith and supported by the people in general, but there will always be some who would prefer not to follow them. Here's a simple example of how it works. Say you have an apartment of nine people, and it's gotten a bit messy. The majority of the roomates agree that they would prefer it cleaner. Now, you could go with anarchy, anyone who wants o clean can, and anyone who doesn't has no obligation. That would only lead to the lazy people doing no work and the more responsible ones taking on an undue burden. You could go with authoritarianism, one person dictates who cleans what, forcing everyone else into compliance (and realistically giving himself a lighter load, although that is not strictly necessary). And then there would be the democratic communist approach, which is that everyone discusses among themselves what the chore schedule should be and votes on the outcomes, such that some of the lazier ones might not want to do their assigned task, but they are required to do so by the consensus of the group, everyone does their fair share, everyone shares the benefit of a cleaner apartment. What is "authoritarian" about that?
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  8866.  @tolowokere  The issue is that while you list several forms of child abuse that you agree are child abuse, you left out other forms that you seem to not agree with, such as suppressing an LGBT child's identity. You may not agree on that, but it remains true regardless that the more supportive those around that child are, the more likely they are to survive to adulthood. Ideally the parent is a part of that, but if, for whatever reason, they can't be, then we should all want teachers to step up as best they can. If a teacher reasonably believes that making a certain revelation available to a parent would lead to that student coming to harm, then they should withhold that information. It should not be their duty to spy on children for parents that may not have that child's best interests in mind. "I provided you with a list of sexually-charged books that were in school libraries, and even assigned as homework to 12 year-olds. When I was a child, homework qualified as part of a teaching curriculum. The good news is that at least one of these controversial books (Gender Queer) has now been pulled out of high-school libraries across the country, with some exceptions like Maine. Bear in mind that this book even has cartoon panels showing characters sucking the p3nis of another character. The images weren't even blurred, nor even the sex organ completely hidden. " High school and middle school students are not elementary school students though, which is often the goto example people keep bringing up. Don't you find that disingenuous, at best? Even thirty years ago there were references to sex in books I was assigned in high school, and in books I read in middle school. Nowadays this material is much more commonly available to students regardless of schools, so it does not shock my conscience that vague references to it might be available in older age classes. I believe that perhaps some classes go too far, and that the time and place to address that is respectfully at school board meetings, but I feel that the rhetoric far outpaces the reality, that many of the "solutions" conservatives come up with are sledgehammers where scalpels would do, and create massive cultures of fear among teachers for even reasonable discussions, rather than only targeting the more explicit examples you reference. Do you not agree that book bans have attempted to remove books with NO explicit sexual references? Do you not agree that bills such as the one in Florida might be applied in an overly board manner, resulting in an innocent teacher having to endure significant hardship before it would be resolved? I doubt that you'll fully agree with me on the intended outcome here, but can't you at least agree that nationwide conservatives have been taking this all much too far?
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  8868.  @tolowokere  " I remember saying something about a teacher casually mentioning that "Tommy has two daddies," and harshly punishing any bullying (if and when it happens), and ultimately leaving further discussions on the matter to the family. " And that's a nice little example of something that you think would be fine with you, but that teacher could still be attacked under the new Florida bill for "not being age appropriate" or whatever. Again, the terms of the bill are extremely vague, and even if the teacher is eventually exonerated, the mere hassle of the process is enough to chill rational discussion. There need to be better checks and balances against the powers that the new law offers to parents to outright prevent abuse of it. "I might be reaching, but I think you're talking about situations where a parent's ideals might butt heads with a child's sexuality or gender identity. If that's the case, then there really is no easy solution." The easy solution would be to allow a teacher to step in and fill the gap. That is part of their role in society. I don't think that it would always be necessary to fully separate the parent from the child, but teachers should at least be able to counsel the child about what they're going through, or point them toward mental health professionals that could do so, and without triggering the parent into interfering. What is vital is that the child receives as much support as is possible, while causing the least disruption as can be possible. A requirement to notify the parents goes against that. "Second, as if the last point wasn't muddy enough, severe disagreement have always existed between parents and their children (especially teenagers) even outside LGBT-related topics. A" Yes, and historically teachers have ALWAYS served as a potential outlet for that. Not every troubled child finds a supportive teacher, but there are millions of stories of kids with a rough upbringing that have found a supportive teacher that helped to alleviate their home life issues. Why should that lifeline be pulled if the child happens to be LGBT? I don't think that teachers should have any obligation to provide aid and counsel that they might not be able to provide, but I certainly don't think that they should be prevented from doing so if they can. "2b) Spying? If my child is caught drinking whiskey under the bleachers, or displaying some serious anti-social behavior (not just simply keeping to himself), then it is their absolutely their duty to inform me!" I don't agree that it's an absolute duty. I think that it should be up to the teacher's discretion. IF the teacher has reason to believe that reporting the behavior would cause the student more harm than good, then I think that's a fair course of action. In general I would agree with you that it would tend to be for the best to inform the parent in such a situation, but there are certainly outliers in which it would result in more harm. To bring it back to a more relevant example, there are far more cases in which telling a parent about potential LGBT situations involving their child might trigger them into causing harm, so I believe this should always be left for the teacher to gauge what they believe the best course of action is. The teacher can't shield the child from the parents finding out on their own, but they should have no obligation to help them find out. "3) Did I miss something?" I feel this entire paragraph is being disingenuous in response to the topic. I have no time for it. "b) Honestly, what on earth just happened?! If anyone had told me just five years ago that I would actually be debating whether its appropriate for minors to have access to sex-charged reading material, I would have rolled my eyes and said that it would never happen. Yet, here we are." Same. We had far less access to sexually charged material back when I was that age, and still managed to find plenty of it, so the idea that we're still aghast at the idea in 2024 is baffling to me. " Had they gotten those books out of the schools long ago, they would have been able to easily deal with simple smoldering embers. " as I said, if those more explict examples existed, it was because nobody knew that they were there. How would they have "gotten them out years ago" if they didn't know? "This scandal is the myth that should never have come true -it should have stayed a myth. With any luck, people can still bring back the "scalpel," as you put it. But, just as importantly, the sooner more schools recognize that this an actual fiasco, and not some Alex Jones inanity, the sooner they can break the momentum of specific conservative activist groups. " Even if every point of fact you raised happens to be true, you are still blowing this WAY out of proportion. It's no "fiasco" or "crisis," it's at most some minor issues to correct over time. Nobody's been actually harmed by this, until teachers and school boards became under threat by conservative radicals.
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  8870.  @tolowokere  To your point 1, yes it';s vague, and no it is unlikely to be successfully challenged, because I don't believe there is anything unconstitutional about it. Laws are allowed to be vague. The only solution would be to elect fewer Republicans and get the bill changed. Yes, if a teacher is charged frivolously they can fight it, and potentially win their case, but the act of having to fight it is ITSELF a punishment for which they will receive no compensation under this law. It's basically giving bad faith parents the right to ruin any teacher's life at their own whim and with no consequences for doing so. More importantly, the bill itself is not necessary and serves no function that is needed, which is why people opposed it, and why there is no reason to defend it. 3. You seem to be reaching back into the distant past for this one. I was talking about the last fifty to one hundred years or so. I would be shocked if you've never encountered people who speak highly of teachers they've had that helped them through a difficult time in their life. It's a fairly common occurrence. Again, teachers do not have a duty to fill this roll, but many choose to, and their students' lives have been all the better for it. And yes, sometimes schools do fail their students, and that's sad, but that's no reason to tie their hands to PREVENT them helping where they CAN. Pointing to examples of schools that neglected their students is no argument in favor of forcing them to neglect their students. As for cases of actual teacher abuse, do you really think this new law will do anything to change that? If a teacher is willing to commit evil acts, then they will violate this law as well. This law only has teeth against teachers who were intending to do the right thing. It should also be important to remember that parental abuse is FAR more common than teacher abuse. It happens, and should be punished when caught, but it is no excuse for attacking the entire institution of teaching. 4. I agree that if a child is in such a precarious situation, then it will likely to end poorly, and yet, unfortunately, it happens every day. And if the teacher does feel that it would be a good idea to remove the child from the parent, and they can convince protective services to do so, then perhaps they should, but sometimes there is not enough actual evidence to support that result. My point is that the teacher should have that discretion to apply their own experience and common sense to any given scenario, to use their own best judgement. Whatever the parent finds out, they can act on as they see fit, but it is not the teacher's responsibility to tell them anything that they don't already know, if the teacher does not believe that knowledge would be in the child's best interests. Again, ONLY the child's interests matter here. To your point 5, this topic is not about you. You have to be aware of the other arguments being made from both sides of it. 6. When I was in 9th grade, around thirty years ago, one book I ended up reading off an assigned reading list was called The Persian Boy, and was about a young slave to Alexander the Great, and discussed how Alexander had sex with his male friends (as well as female). I don't recall quite how explicit it was, but for the 90s I did find that quite shocking. Even so, I don't think that was an inappropriate book for children of that age, especially now, and it certainly wasn't the most explicit material available to me by that point. I'm sure fifty years ago it would have been scandalous to have a book in which an interracial couple was depicted, but times do change. In any case, such disagreements are relatively few and far between, exceptions, not the rule, and each case can be handled using existing methods of talking to teachers, principles, school boards, and if necessary elections to replace them, but there is no need for the sort of national outrage that has resulted, much less laws like the one in Florida. The existing systems are quite capable of handling any disagreements on curriculum.
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  8871.  @tolowokere  I see only a part 1, if there were additional parts. I understand the frustration. To your first point, it would depend on how "heathcare services" would be defined. If it means discussions that the teacher and student have had around LGBT topics, then that would be a problem. If it only means actual medical procedures, then that is already covered under existing law and needs to updates. Which "healthcare services" do you believe are not already covered under existing law? "If the parent is sure that the teachers are harming the child, and the teachers are sure that they are helping the child, then they will have to drag that out into the light. " Again though, the one unalienable factor is not the parent, but the child. It is what is best for the child. If the parent has a plan that they think is right, and the teacher has a plan that they think is right, then neither should be required to run it by the other, they should each pursue their own plan individually. Objectively, there is no way of knowing which is the more correct path. If either results in harm, then existing mechanisms can account for that. I think you are ignoring a large gray area in this discussion. As you have pointed out, actually removing a child is an extreme measure that can be both difficult to execute and have repercussions to the child. It would be nice if all foster care options would be better than their own parents, but that too is no guarantee, so I think you agree that this should be avoided if possible. Can you not imagine a scenario in which an LGBT child would face emotional or even physical abuse at the hands of a parent if their true nature came to light, and yet so long as they maintain that secret, they could continue to live a relatively carefree life within that household? In such a case, would it not be better for the child to keep their head down until they become an adult and can move out and live their own life, rather than launching into that conflict as a child? In most cases, if a teacher reports their concerns to authorities, nothing would happen, because the bar for that is extremely high. Mere suspicion that such things might happen is not enough of a justification to have a child removed from custody, but it should be enough of a justification for a teacher to not light the match. Shouldn't teachers have that much discretion? That even if they don't have enough to solve the problem, they should at least be allowed to not make it worse? "Concerning point 3: Reaching? You made a claim on how schools "historically" have been. How was I supposed to know you were focused on 20- 30 years ago? " Because going back 100 years would be bonkers. We got SO much wrong 100 years ago that it's impossible to sort out. "Now, I grant there are real life heart-warming stories similar to Coach Carter or The Dead Poets Society , but I swear that there was nothing commonplace about them. " If you had a relatively stable home life and fit in well enough, then you would personally be unlikely to bond with any teachers, but not everyone is so privileged. Do not imagine that your own life experiences are particularly relevant to other people. If you haven't experienced it yourself, and cannot empathize with those who have, then just understand intellectually that vith does occur often enough among people who need help managing their lives. "3c) Couldn't I just as easily say the following: yes, sometimes parents do fail their children , and that's sad, but that's no reason to cut them out and PREVENT them helping where they CAN. " Completely different scenario. Nobody is passing a law preventing parents from getting involved. If a parent is willing an able to get involved in a positive way, nobody is getting in their way. "As for cases of actual teacher abuse, I really do think this new law will be useful in frustrating that. Laws against theft and murder have not eliminated either stealing or deliberate killing, but its consequences (among other things) certainly enter the minds of would-be perpetrators." But the new law does not make it any easier to catch or prosecute cases of actual teacher abuse, it ignores that entirely. All the new law does is target well meaning teachers who are trying to help their students.
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  8872.  @tolowokere  Oh, wait, I see the part 2 now, it just didn't send me a notification for it. Let's see. . . "To put things in perspective, what is an 8th grade math teacher going to find that detectives, child psychologists, and a search warrant won't find? " You put WAY more faith in those systems than anyone who has even heard of those systems has for them. It is not remotely so simple as you make it out, and you should simply not discuss such topics until you have looked into them more thoroughly. "When a child performs in a match, who are they more likely to desire praise and approval from? Ms. Parker, who happens to be their homeroom teacher, or their moms and dads?" Ideally their parents. But if their parents are unwilling or unable to offer such praise, then a teacher is certainly far better than nothing. Nobody is arguing that a supportive parent is not the best possible scenario here, but it would be irrational to pretend that all parents are supportive. If the parent IS supportive, then there is very little chance of their interests and the teachers' coming into conflict at all. "Children typically look forward to going home, and normally feel most at ease within their family. " In a healthy household? Sure. But millions of children in this country have a less than ideal household environment, and you can't just ignore that this is the case. You see to have a really hard time imagining people who are different from yourself, or from what you want them to be. You state things as though they are objective certainties, when the reality is that they are just how you experienced them. "With that in mind, a case where the child isn’t being harmed but may still have some difficulty with a parent, then resolving the issue with that parent present MUST be done" That's between the parent and the child, but the teacher should not have to act to make that happen. If there is a scenario in which this never gets resolved until after the child leaves home and can make their own choices, that still does not mean that it can never happen, the parent is still alive, the adult child can still reach out and discuss the issue in a way that is more likely to be productive, since the child is no longer dependent on the parent. Nothing here is preventing the child from involving the parent if they want, or the parent finding out on their own, but the teacher should not be required to force the issue if they don't believe that would likely lead to a positive outcome. "You almost make it sound like we're talking about a power outage or poor air conditioning at a local school." Those would be more serious concerns, sure.
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  8873.  @tolowokere  1) again, I asked you to explain what "healthcare decision" you thought that school might be having with a student that is not already covered under existing laws. Can you not provide any? If not, then we can agree that the new law was not necessary here, and is only likely to be abused to call topics parents don't like "a healthcare decision." Vagueness. 2) You say it would be bad to treat the child as a football, and then propose they put the child in the middle of a field and start kicking. If the teacher believes that a direct discussion with the parent would be productive, nothing is stopping them from having one. If the child wants to bring it to the parent's attention, nothing is stopping them. But if neither believe that the parents would be willing or able to have a productive discussion on the topic, then they should not be required to involve the parent. Again, the child's best interests take precedence. I'll put to you, how do you feel it should best be determined that a parent's knowledge of a certain situation would be more harmful to a child than helpful? By just telling them and rolling the dice? 3) Again, the system has NEVER been as efficient as you pretend it to be. It is not a perfect system in which the only two options are to "remove the child from the parent" or "allow the parent to just do whatever, I guess." As YOU argued in previous posts, there can be harm to removing a child from a parent, and it is an extremely difficult process to execute, so even if the teacher did believe that is the correct course of action, it would be extremely messy and likely to end in failure. It is NOT always the best solution. 4) You were the one that implied that referencing schools in living memory was somehow odd, and that we should be referencing pre-industrial education or something. You were bringing up private tutors! 5) why should the teacher's actions not be to their own discretion? Most things in people's lives are left to their own discretion. Anything that a teacher could do that should not be left to their discretion, such as harming a student, was already covered by existing law. As to your second point here, yes, schools are sometimes bad, nothing about the new law would fix any of that, and if the school is unwilling or unable to help, then the children attending it would find no support there. This is sad, but outside the scope of what we're talking about. What we're talking about is the cases where the school WANTS to help, and you advocate for preventing them doing so, while I believe they should be allowed the chance. Basically, we should be providing the most options for success here, if the parents are on board, great_. If they aren't, but the teachers can help,. _great_, let them do that!Give the kid the most options to achieve a positive outcome. If _all those options fail, then that's unfortunate, but at least we can say they had their best shot. Right?
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  8875.  @tolowokere  1) that doesn't answer my question. I think we can agree that a law should not exist without some justification for it, some actual problem that has not already been solved by existing methods. So provide an example of a specific situation that exists, in which the previous laws would not resolve the situation effectively, but this new law would. What do you believe is a "health care situation" that a school might find itself in, not covered by preexisting law, but covered by this new one? 2) I disagree. Plenty of LGBT people went through their young adult life without their parents being aware of it. Parents often know very little about their teens' lives. If a teen WANTS to come out to their parents, nothing is stopping them. If they DON'T want to come out to their parents, then they have two options, to either hide everything about themselves and just live a hollow existence until they move out, OR live their full lives outside of the home but not bring it up while at home. Is there risk to that? Sure, but there are risks to basically anything worth doing. I really hope we can come to agree that teachers should never be put in a position in which they are required to INCREASE the risks to that child by telling the parents. 3) As I said several times, public schools sometimes fail their students, and in such cases, nothing about the new law would help with that. All the new law does is take the cases where the public school ISN'T failing its students and requires them to fail those students. There is no perfect outcome, you cannot let the perfect be the enemy of the good. All you can do is NOT reduce the potential positive outcomes. 5c) Again, sometimes schools fail students, the new law does absolutely nothing to solve ANY of those problems. If we were discussing ways to improve schools, to make them less likely to fail, then this would be an entirely different conversation. But since we are not, all of that is completely irrelevant to the conversation we are having. In the cases where the school system is already failing the child, then unfortunately, that child is on their own, and nothing about the new law fixes that, so for the purposes of this discussion, we have to set all those cases aside, and focus ONLY on the cases in which the school system is not currently failing that student, in which they are providing some measure of support that they are not receiving at home. This new law does nothing that would improve the outcomes for any students, so it has a gross positive value of "zero." But then we have these other cases in which the student would receive help from their school environment, and this new law would prevent that help from occurring, so that is taking a gross positive result and turning it into a gross zero result, resulting in net negative results overall. To put it more simply, it ONLY makes things WORSE than they otherwise would be. Can you present ANY scenario in which it would actually cause a practical improvement?
    1
  8876.  @tolowokere  1) Ok, I've asked several times, and you've still yet to provide a single example of a "medical discussion" that a teacher could have with a child that they should be required to disclose to parents, and which was not already sufficiently covered under existing laws, so I can only take that to mean that there is not one, which was my point. Do we also agree that it is bad policy to add a new law that serves no additional valid function, particularly when the vagueness of the wording could allow it to be applied in bad faith to completely unrelated situations? 3) Again, we are only talking about a case in which the child does not feel comfortable coming out to their parents. One in which the teacher also believes that this would not end well. In such a situation, why do you give neither of them the benefit of the doubt? That is two checks at play, why do you believe they would be more likely wrong than right? We know that there are plenty of cases in which this HAS gone poorly, and in almost all of them, those involved could have predicted that based on their own experiences with those parents. I think it's disingenuous to pretend that this is a situation where one should assume a positive outcome in cases where everyone who actually knows the parents believes otherwise. It seems to be a case of insistent blindness to reality. And again, teachers are not perfect, but neither are parents. MOST abuse of children comes at the hands of their own parents. So your stance seems to be "assume that the parents will always work out, and teachers fill in the gaps," my position is, "let parents parent at home, let teachers parent while at school, if they WANT to cooperate, nothing is stopping them." I feel this has the best chances of a positive outcome, even though nothing is guaranteed. I suppose we might be talking past each other on this, so I'm going to lay out a number of potential outcomes to a parent finding out that their child is LGBT, and I would like you to weigh in on whether you view that as a "successful" outcome that should be sought out, or a "bad" outcome that should be avoided. A. The Parents love and support their child, however they may be, and will help them however they can. B. Previously warm and loving parents are willing to tolerate their child, but are far less loving and supportive than they were before finding out. The following few years will be less happy for all than if they had not known. C. The parents are furious and verbally abuse their child, attempting to bully them into being different in some way. D. The parents attempt to push their child into harmful treatments to "correct" their behavior. E. The parents physically assault their child, even though they had never done so before. F. The parents kill the child. Which of those would you consider an acceptable outcome, and do you not agree that the child can reasonably predict which outcomes are more likely? That a teacher might from previous interactions with the parents? Assume that prior to this, the parents were apparently warm and loving parents, with absolutely nothing that could merit the attention of protective services. 4) I say "sometimes" because tens of millions of students attend school every year, and the overwhelming majority of them have at worst a "neutral" experience there, many of them having very positive experiences. I'm by no means excusing the negative outcomes, work to solve those where we can, but the law we're currently discussing has absolutely nothing to do with that, so it's a moot point for this topic of discussion.
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  8877.  @tolowokere  1) I asked you to provide SOME justification for this new law's existence, since you seemed to believe that it was a positive step. To do that, you would need to be able to provide at least one situation in which the existing options would be insufficient, but the new bill would resolve it. You gave a lot of vague talk about how a law might function, but none that was relevant to this specific law. I asked for one example. You could provide none, so I take that as agreement that the new law added nothing of actual value. Or do you want to disagree just for the sake of disagreement? 3) So to point B, yes, it is a false form of happiness, but the choice for that should still be with the child, not the law. Would the child prefer the false happiness, or the more genuine coldness? That should be up to them. There should be no legal requirement that a teacher force either outcome upon them. Again to points C and F, if you believe that a teacher's vague concern that these things might happen is grounds for the state to remove the child from that home, then you have NO idea how the protective services system works. It NEVER works like that. You see it as a very binary thing, that if the teacher has concerns about the parent, then they can just snap their fingers and the child is removed from that home and placed into a perfectly loving foster household and everyone lives happily ever after. The real world is NOTHING like that, so it's foolish to plan based around your fictional worldview. In the real world, you would need significant evidence of current abuse to remove a child, and even then, they are not likely to end up in a significant better situation. IF it's possible to maintain a more neutral status quo, then there is ZERO question that this would be in the best interests of that child. If teachers report "potential future abuse," then that would, at best, accomplish nothing, and at worst, trigger the parents into doing actual, present day abuse before any state authorities could successfully act on the tip. In the real world, if a teacher has a reasonable suspicion of potential further abuse, "reporting the parents" is unlikely to have any positive outcomes, so why do you keep going back to that one? 4) I already negated this argument, try to keep that in mind for next time. Also, I have absolutely no idea how your Great Britain information would relate to any of this. Teachers cannot control what family situation a student might have, ALL they can control is how they interact with the students they have, and with their parents. All I'm saying is, their responsibility should NOT be to "report to parents, no matter what," it should be "report to parents, IF they believe that would be in the best interests of the child."
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  8878.  @tolowokere  1) I agree that parents should be informed of health care issues that current laws already would have them informed of. I am suspicious of the wording and functions of the new law because I believe it would be used frivolously to address situations that are not valid "health care concerns." I do not believe that the new law adds anything of value, and creates potentially negative outcomes. The existing laws do not require any "reinforcements." 2) I believe teachers should do what they can to help the child, using their best judgement. I believe that my point was that the existing mechanisms around child protection would not allow a teacher to remove a child from their parent under the medium-bad circumstances we were discussing, nor would that severe an outcome necessarily be ideal in the first place, but I DO believe that teachers should be able to help children without such extreme measures. You are the one advocating that their hands should be tied, "work with the parents openly, or remove them entirely, nowhere in between." Again, the priority is the best outcome for the child. If the child wants to involve the parents, NOBODY is recommending a situation in which they are unable to do so. If the teacher wants to involve the parents, NOBODY is recommending a situation in which they are unable to do so. But if neither the child nor the teacher feels that involving the parents would produce a positive outcome, then there should be nothing that forces their hand on the issue.
    1
  8879.  @tolowokere  1. Ok, so then we're in agreement that this was bad legislation. If the only positive role it has is to "reaffird" laws that were already sufficient to the tasks, and the tangible harm it causes it to LGBT students and their teachers, the downsides are clearly all that there is to it. Why did that take so long? 2. Your first paragraph could be turned around the other way, what if the parent gets things wrong and it goes poorly? You say "someone else's child," which again implies that the child is baggage, something that is up to the parent's unquestionable whims, and how dare anyone else have a different opinion? "Sorry. I messed up. But I really thought I was helping?" Or, "I'll do a better job next time?" Keep in mind that the parent is MUCH more likely to screw this up than the teacher. The ideal situation is for BOTH to pursue their best ideas, which gives the highest chance of at least one of them getting things right. "WE DON'T NEED TO IMAGINE HOW BADLY THIS CAN TURN OUT --WE ALREADY HAVE EXAMPLES NOW. " and all those existing cases are already handled by existing laws, no new laws, or "reinforcement of existing law" is needed for those. There are no NEW examples that require NEW laws to address. And ok, a teacher is, at best, a stopgap. Good. That's plenty. That's all the child needs at that moment, a stopgap. Something to make their life bearable until they become an adult and can make their own life choices outside the home. It's certainly better than requiring that they make things worse. Also, who's suggesting that the teacher get involved in their private family life? It's not the teacher's job to sort out estranged parents. All the teacher would be doing is helping the STUDENT while that student is IN SCHOOL.
    1
  8880.  @tolowokere  1) Again though, the new law CAUSES new harms, in that its language opens teachers up to attacks that would not have existed under the previous laws, while you agree that it ADDS nothing of value, nothing that did not apply under previous law, so we are in agreement that it is a net negative, whether you choose to complain about that fact or not. 2a) Yes, you did indeed say those things. And then in later arguments you took stances that were in complete conflict with that, so at some point in there, you were being disingenuous. 2b) Nobody is arguing that the family is not the safest place for a child to live. The alternative systems tend to be particularly poor. My point was that families are more likely to cause harm and abuse to a child than teachers are. So again, if we're talking about giving one or the other the benefit of the doubt, teachers would win. And of course the better that family life is, the better for the child, but that is a variable completely outside of the scope of this conversation, since we are only discussing the cases in which that relationship has failed the child. Cases in which the parents have not failed the child would not be a factor here. 2c) Not really. Home schooling can have extremely mixed results, and tends to end up with very odd adults. 4) Again, if "it would collapse" then that collapse is inevitable anyway. There is no outcome to the situation in which it would not collapse. So the only question on the table is, "should teachers be legally obligated to cause the collapse as soon as possible, OR should they have the choice to delay that collapse, potentially up through the child leaving home and being capable of making their own choices?" Those are the only two options within this scenario, any other options would not be relevant to the topic at hand.
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  8881.  @tolowokere 1) The "part of the bill" is in how it is executed. It allows lawsuits against the school by parents, ones who may not fully understand the laws or be acting in good faith when they make a claim. This is too dangerous a tool. You say that you do not approve of people suing over "billy has two daddies," but NOTHING in the law itself fails to allow for that. If you happen to be on that jury, then great, maybe they'll get off, but it will still represent an undue burden on the teacher and school to even have to humor such a case. As for other problems, it prohibits using pronouns that do not align with a person's sex, which can be harmful to both teachers and students. 1b) you keep raising this point, and I have never once disputed. I have only repeatedly pointed out that this is no defense of its existence. My point is that it adds nothing of value we agree on that as you cannot provide a single example of a beneficial change, and that it causes new harms, I hope we can agree on that, and therefore, it is a net negative overall. 2b) Then I think you misunderstand what "the family is the safest place for the child" means. It would baffle me if this were the case, since it is not THAT hard to understand, and you otherwise use such big words. It means ON AVERAGE the family is the safest HOME environment for a child. It is not meant to say that every home is the safest place for that child, or that other temporary locations, such as a school, could not be a more safe place for the child, only that of the housing situations available to a child, the family home is likely to be the safest available. We are not discussing such safe homes here, they are irrelevant to the conversation we are having. We both agree that safe homes are good for the kid, and in such cases, they would never come into conflict with teachers, so the new law is not at all applicable. It ONLY applies to cases in which the home is unsafe, and in which the teacher has a valid reason to avoid involving the parents. We are discussing the homes in which there is some potential for harm, in which they may be safe under the current circumstances, but could become unsafe if the child's LGBT nature was revealed to the parents. This is a situation in which is it impossible to bring protective services into play until the bad outcomes have already started, but in which it is possible to "run out the clock" by not causing this conflict until after the child has graduated and left this home. Do you understand the words that are coming out of my keyboard? 4) I'm not sure what you mean here about "new parents arrive." Like a different kid also has problems with their parents? This is not hard. All a teacher has to do here is NOT tell things to these parents. This easy, not even an inconvenience. This is not some elaborate cloak and dagger that takes a great deal of effort to maintain, ALL we are discussing here is that the teacher knows a student is LGBT, perhaps helps to counsel them and connect them with other support mechanisms, and does not inform the parents of this. That's it, job done, moving on. A teacher could presumably do this for every student they ever teacher, if it were somehow necessary. Informing the parents would be considerably more work. Will "discretion of the teacher" eventually lead to controversy? Sure. I don't view that as the worst outcomes here. The worst outcomes is students dying. Leaving it to the discretion of the teachers is less likely to lead to that outcome. Of all the outcomes out there, "leaving it to the teacher" offers the best chance of success for those kids. The parents can do whatever they want at home, using whatever information they can glean while at home. The teacher can act as they see fit (within existing guidelines of responsible conduct), within the bounds of the classroom, and not be required to share any information with parents that they do not choose to share. In cases where the child wants the parents involved, they will be. In cases where the child does not want the parent involved, but the teacher believes the parents will be fine, they can choose to involve them, but if both the child and teacher are concerned about the parents reaction, then the choice most likely to lead to successful outcomes would be to not involve the parents. They are more likely to be right about that than they are to be wrong, IF that is what they both believe. Why would they believe that if they were completely wrong?
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  8886.  @nonhatespeech  You do understand that "transgender care for minors" does NOT mean "surgeries," right? You understand that? We can continue this conversation on the shared understanding that "transgender care" does not mean "surgeries?" The standard of care for trans minors does not include surgical procedures, it is to first pursue counseling, then, potentially puberty blocking drugs, and then, if they are determined to be serious about transitioning, hormone therapy. If this is done right, then no surgical procedures would be involved until they are at least adults. But the Montana law does not merely reference surgeries, which are not happening, it also prevents ALL such care for the children, leaving them alone. If you are an honest person, if you mean it when you say that you are concerned about living with the guilt associated with passing of legislation that sets these young people up for many regrets in their future, then you would oppose this bill, because you would want to help them avoid the regret of having passed through puberty using the wrong hormones, and growing into a mature adult of the wrong gender. You have seen interviews of people who transitioned and regretted it. You have not, apparently, seen the interviews of the people who transitioned and had no regrets, who outnumber those people 100 to 1. You are focusing on the exceptions, and leaving the much more common examples to rot. If a child is trans, then it is FAR more likely that they would regret not transitioning into their preferred gender as seamlessly as possible, than it is that they would regret having transitioned. That's just the reality of the situation.I hope that does not make you uncomfortable, but I think we can both agree that it would be better for you to be uncomfortable about that than for these kids to be left uncomfortable in their own skins. NOBODY is pushing ANYONE to transition. The only offer on the table is to help people who WANT to transition to be able to do so. And there is no moral argument against that.
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  9207. One company should start building a sort of "pre-fab" conversion kit, similar to how cruise chips install new rooms. Build kits that are designed to fit in a standard office space (correct ceiling height, for example), and then have multiple "blocks" of apartment that can be combined into a total space. So like you would have an open concept bedroom intended to press against the existing windows, an open concept kitchen, a bathroom built into the side of an open concept space that is as wide as the other elements, and then a variety of "spacer" blocks that can be fit between these core blocks to match whatever dimensions the space affords. So for example, if the bedroom is 4m across, and bathroom segment 3m across, and the kitchen segment 4m across, but the space available was 20m, you could then place 1-5m segments in between each to fill the remaining 9m, and this could be closets, living rooms, etc.., or just open space to be used however they wish. You could mix and match these pieces how you like to achieve an apartment that fits the space you have and the style you're looking for (within reason). You could either line them up in a row, or place several of them together to make a larger apartment. These would also be designed to be broken down into pieces that would fit in a standard freight elevator, and since they are pre-fabbed off site and fit into relatively narrow configurations, they would be very cheap relative to custom building everything on site. It might not meet the tastes of the high end luxury crowd, but it should work great for lower and middle income housing that cities need.
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  9559.  @BWolf00  Well it's not a huge concern if someone tests positive for covid but has no serious illness from it. 20,000 Americans died last month alone because they were unvaccinated. If we could get more people vaccinated and prevent those deaths, there's no reason not to. The purpose of the vaccine is to prevent serious illness and death. And of course the unvaccinated have a bearing on the effectiveness of a vaccine. Again, herd immunity is a vital component. The more unvaccinated people are in a community, the more the virus can spread within it. NO vaccine is 100% effective at preventing spread of a virus on an individual level. It is only due to the multiplicative effect of the entire community being vaccinated that the effectiveness becomes significant. This is why vaccine mandates exist, because there is no way that one single person can "do what's right for them" and become immune to viruses, it takes an entire community effort. And yes, it is possible for herd immunity to be achieve without a vaccine, but with a disease like covid that process would involve millions of dead Americans. There is ABSOLUTELY NO POINT to taking that long and deadly route when we ALREADY have a vaccine. It's like your house is on fire, and only one room is burning, and the fire department shows up ready to put it out, and you say "no, no, let's just let the fire burn itself out. I prefer the natural solution to your 'water.'" Yes, the fire will go out eventually, but only after a LOT of completely avoidable destruction.
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  9564.  @BWolf00  Ok, overly simplified example. You have a room with 20 people in it, and over the course of an evening, people will move around the room, talking with different people, such that not everyone talked to everyone else directly, but most of them talk to someone who has. And let's also imagine that we have a very rapidly acting virus that is communicable almost instantly after infection, and has a fairly high infection rate on its own, since this is just a simulation. Now if none of them are vaccinated and one of them enters the room with an infection, he talks to a few groups of people directly over the course of the night, those people talk to others, and very quickly almost everyone in that room has been infected. Now in a second attempt,half of the people have been vaccinated with a vaccine that is maybe 50% effective at preventing spread, one infected person enters. He talks to the same people, but of those, only 75% of them get infected (half of the vaccinated population). They mingle with other guests, but still in each group only 75% get infected, so only 75% of them spread to others. The chances are higher of at least a few people in that group never interacting with anyone who had been infected, so their own immunity is irrelevant. Now in a third attempt, everyone is vaccinated. He talks to that first group, only half of them get infected, so when they split up to mingle, half the groups they talk to don't get any infected people. By the end of the night, a large portion of the room would never encounter a person who had the infection, because each time it "bounced" from one group to the next, there would be fewer people infected. And now let's add "time" to the mix, let's say that since this virus is so rapidly infecting, it's also rapidly killed off, it only lasts in each person for half an hour, so people who were infectious early in the evening have long since stopped being infectious by the end. But let's also say that you can get reinfected by two hours later if you encounter the virus again. In this scenario, Group A would all be infected, same as normal, because the virus would just keep bouncing around. Group B would also likely see a lot of bouncing, less, but still a lot. Group C would see significantly less though, because each "bounce" would have less people in it, and by the time people from earlier in the night met up with people who were infected in the middle, it would have worn off from them. It's highly likely that by the end of the night, nobody in that group would have the virus active. Of course this is a sped up version of how a virus moves around within a community, but the basic rules apply, they would just happen over months rather than hours. Worst case, the more vaccinated people you have, the less of them die. Medium and highly likely case, the higher percentage of the population is vaccinated, the less the virus bounces around, and the more people in the group never come into contact with it. Best case, this happens often enough that the virus dies out completely, with a period of no matching pairs of "actively infectious" and "able to be infected" people coming together. This is how herd immunity functions. The more immunized people exist within a community, the less a virus spreads within it, beyond just each individual member's personal immunity.
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  9582.  @chrisgriffith9252  But the important thing to keep in mind is that not all parents DO have the best interests of their children in mind, and in some cases what the parents think is in their children's best interests, they are wrong about. So the ultimate arbiter of what is right or wrong for a child should never be "whatever their parent wants." IF there is a situation in which what the parent wants would be harmful to the child, it is the responsibility of the society around them to protect that child from their parent's intentions. That is the entire point here, the school district's rules required that parents be involved, whether that was in the child's interest or not. Without that rule, which is the goal of the lawsuit, teachers would have the discretion to avoid involving the parents if they determined that it would not be in the child's interest. Keep in mind that if the child wanted the parent to know, then there is nothing preventing them from telling their parent, but nothing should force the teacher to tell the parent if they do not believe that is for the best. As for larger societal implications, if a parent is wrong, if a parent is cruel, if a parent is even just misguided, then bullying the child into listening to them no matter what does not lead to a better society. At best it would only lead to an authoritarian society, at worst it leads them to reject ALL forms of authority, since they have been told "even though this person was in the wrong, you MUST listen to them anyway," and that is a patently stupid idea that only a stupid child would accept without question. Parents need to EARN their child's respect, not demand it. Now as for your deflection, no, your views on trangender children are bigoted nonsense, and an excellent example of the reason why these teachers and their freedom to act outside of the parent's wishes is absolutely necessary to protect children.
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  9590.  @robertrynard7397  The problem though is that most businesses already pay below the living wage for lots of low-skill labor jobs, which means that the state is already picking up part of the cost of keeping those workers alive. So the question is, would it be in the best interests of the state to jack up minimum wage to a livable wage, so that everyone who works 40 hours a week can survive on that labor alone, even if that means that businesses would cut half or more of their current low-skill employees and automate them? Or would it be better to continue to allow businesses to pay a poverty wage so that they employ as many people as possible, even if the state is actually covering most of their living expenses and they are basically working for no good reason? Personally I feel that if a robot CAN do a job, then it is better for everyone involved that the robot do the job and that the human find something else to occupy his time, while his needs are met either way. Require that every job pay a living wage or nothing, but that the profits of getting rid of employees would be offset by a higher tax burden. And I mean a lot of this is already happening, Taco Bell just came out with a two story, four drive-in bay test store in California that can pump through customers. It's currently got a standard human staff, but a building like that would be much easier to "factory-ize" than a standard one. And plenty of grocery and online retailers have built their massive warehouse systems with some variety of bot that moves products around the place, and all the humans do is pick up the item at the end of the chain and put it in the shipping box, a step that would be easier to automate than a general android. You don't even have to replace every human, but right now, you could either have 100+ small stores in a town that each carry niche goods, run by 250+ employees over the course of a week, OR you can have one big box online warehouse delivering the same products to the same customers, and it would only require a dozen or two humans managing a bunch of automated processes.
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  9591.  @robertrynard7397  Well, like a modern grocery, they have automated teller machines that people use themselves instead of a human-run checkout lane. That allows a dozen customers to check out with only one human monitoring the situation, instead of at least 3-4 tellers to manage the same customers in the same time, and there is still room to scale that situation up. Conversely, a modern grocery post-covid often allows online curbside pick-up, in which you pick the foods you want, then a human worker wanders the shelves with a cart, picking items then sending them out front for pick-up. A humanoid robot could do this, but it would be inefficient. The more efficient system would be to just skip the store entirely and just ship directly from a warehouse sized space, where non-humanoid robots roam the shelves. Even inside a grocery store, it would be less efficient to have a biped humanoid robot pushing a cart, than to have a cart-shaped robot, like a giant R2-D2, that roams the aisles and picks out the items people have ordered. Designing a factory process to do a thing does take some development work, but for a multi-billion corporation, you only have to do that work once, and then make minor tweaks over time to change menu items. The time and cost this would take would be equivalent to the training time spent on human workers. This doesn't mean that every McDonalds would switch to automated over night, but it does mean that some of the new McDonalds being built would be, and then over time as old ones are closed or remodeled anyway, they could choose to invest in a couple hundred thousand in new kitchen equipment, to offset half a million a year in staffing costs over the next 10+ years. If you're going to be buying new kitchen components, then buying ones that can work themselves would not cost that much more than buying the normal kind, and less than buying the normal kind AND a handful of humanoid robots to operate them.
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  9833.  @rudradevsingh228  Ok, lets go through some of your misconceptions, in no particular order. One, oil. The US produces more oil under Biden than it did under Trump. The US president doesn't control how much oil the Us produces though, that is controlled by companies, and it's companies that chose to cut oil production in 2020 and slowly raise it back up. The oil price we pay is the global rate, regardless of how much the US produces. If the global price of oil is high, then US producers will sell that oil at that high price on the global market, rather than selling it at a lower price to Americans. If global suppliers cut their production, then it is impossible for the US to produce enough oil to balance that out and keep prices low, and even if it were possible to manage that in the short term, we would only run completely out of oil faster, as it is a finite resource. The ONLY way that the US could potentially get to dictate what the US price at the pump would be, would be if we fully nationalized the US oil producers, required that they ramp production higher than they would want, and required that they only sell this oil to US retailers at cost. Any "free market" solution would keep oil prices exactly where we saw them. This would require some act of congress to achieve, and would ultimately be a bit pointless, since, again, we would just run completely out of oil faster. So TL;DR, The US government does not get to decide what gas prices will be, and never has. Now, to the Obama solutions to the Bush recession, they may not have worked as well as their projections, but they did WORK, in that the economy improved at a reasonable rate. No serious economist believes that we would have seen those gains without the actions taken, or something equivalent. It's possible that they could have done a better job with it, but "doing nothing" certainly would have been worse. You may be disappointed in the economic growth over that period, but it was certainly better than nothing, or an actual decline. Obamacare was a net positive, as it provided tens of millions of Americans with insurance, but as you noted, it was sabotaged at multiple points by Republicans, and as they controlled enough of congress after that, it became impossible to make any changes to it to perfect it. Large scale legislation is rarely perfect on the first try, that does not mean you should not do it, it only means that you need to be ready to correct the errors through future legislation. Republicans only insisted on "repeal and replace," which was obviously worse (particularly since they offered no valid "replacement"). Sweden was a failure. Their death rate was considerably higher than their neighbors who locked down responsibly. There is no valid argument to be made that "lockdowns were bad somehow," as it has been shown across the world that countries with more responsible lockdown policies than the US experienced far lower death rates and better economic stability. And of course we should not cut Social Security or health care spending, we only need to make sure that these programs are PAID FOR. If Social Security had been left alone as it was original designed, it would be fine right now, what stresses it currently has came from Republicans raiding it like a piggy bank to fund their own projects while also lowering taxes. If you devour the funding mechanism of a program, surprise surprise, it has trouble remaining solvent. Restore the funds the Republicans stole and it's back on track.
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  9917.  @mdav30  "As for trans women in sports, to me the way you are answering it unfortunately ignores biological issues totally in favor of social definitions." That was not quite my intention. Let me put it like this, "women's sport" is not a biological distinction. It is, in objective fact, a "social definition." It is defining the category based on society, not based on biology. Now, that is a different argument entirely than whether the average biologically female person has different traits than the average biologically male person. So my point is that so long as we have a category of "women's sports," it must be held open to all people who are women, including trans women, however, we can discuss whether it makes sense to have other categories of "second tier sporting events" that are focused around the biological limitations that women might disproportionately suffer from. The simple fact is that as Sabine pointed out there is no "typical human," there is also no "typical athlete." Each has their own assortment of traits, and most who rise to the top are absolute freaks, with bodies capable of things impossible to 99.99% of the population, regardless of time and effort. Every successful athlete has some biological edge over their competition, and "high testosterone" is only one of those. If we want to define a version of "women's sports" that does not allow most trans women to compete, then we can do that, but it cannot be along lines so reductive as "all people who are women, except for trans women," because that is a sociological definition, not a biological one, and is nakedly prejudicial. It would instead have to be based on objective biological factors that are relevant to performance in the sport, such as current hormone levels, and other chemical traits, and such rulings would likely allow some trans athletes to participate, while some non-trans women would be excluded based on their biology. Personally, I believe there is no point to involving ANY of this discussion at the sub-collegiate level, if any primary school girls want to play a sport, you let them, no exceptions. It's all about fun and teamwork.
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  9923.  @EaglePicking  I don't entirely agree with your framing of it. We have to accept people's genders based on self-perception because decades of research into the matter, supported by centuries of prior evidence, indicates that this provides the most accurate results. There's literally no reason to not accept people's genders based on self-perception, since there does not seem to be any more accurate tool than self-perception. Now, to your examples, you do understand that most prisons are full of rapists, right? There is nothing unusual about that. Now obviously we should try and reform prisons such that known rapists are kept separated from any potential victims, but this has nothing whatsoever to do with whether anyone is transgender or not. Generally speaking, trans women are no threat whatsoever to other women, and the idea that trans women might go around sexually assulting them is more of a bogey-man on the right than an actual problem. The funny thing is, most of the people screaming bloody murder about the possibility of trans women rapists, actually VOTED for Donald Trump in the 2020 election. So clearly they have ZERO problems with rapists. As for sports, as I said, there can be discussions as to what divisions we want to have in various sports, but if we CHOOSE to define those divisions based on GENDER, such as "women's sports," then we would need to allow ALL women, including trans women, to participate in them. If, on the other hand, we choose to use biological distinctions to separate out the various divisions, then some amount of trans women and cis women would be excluded from that division. "I don't choose to do this to hinder people with gender dysphoria, but simply to safeguard women and truth." Why lie to others? If you were actually right, you could be honest about yourself, like trans people are. Instead you have to pretend to be a better person than we both know you to be, in some pale attempt at credibility.
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  9924.  @EaglePicking  And you are bringing up prison rape as a distraction from the topic of trans people. What's your point? All I was pointing out is the fact that nobody who voted for Trump has any credibility on the topic of rape. And no, Biden was not credibly accused of rape, anyone who would claim otherwise has clearly been indoctrinated with nonsense and lost all credibility. "Is Isla Bryson a woman, now that he self-identifies as one?" I don't know who Isla Bryson is or their story, but if they claim to be a woman, I don't see how it would be any of our business to claim otherwise. "What is to stop any male rapist from self-identifying as a woman and going to a jail full of possible future victims?'" My question to you is what is to stop a male rapist from going to a male prison and raping there? Or a cis woman rapist from being sent to a female prison and raping there? What would be the difference? Rape is rape. The lesson there is not to treat trans people differently from cis people, it's to treat rapists differently from other people, and keep ALL rapists, regardless of their gender or sexual orientation, away from ANY potential victims, regardless of gender or sexual orientation. And yes, that also means keeping Trump out of the White House. "Or are they, as I've been told before when asking such questions, "bad faith questions"?" They are indeed that as well, since you are holding this up as a case of trans rights, when the case you raise is, even at the most generous, an extreme outlier, and even if you consider yourself 100% justified on that particular example, it would have zero relevance on the larger topic of millions of trans people who are NOT convicted rapists in a prison setting.
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  10009.  @seanplace8192  1) that doesn't change the fact that you don't need to for operating a button based console, once you have a reasonable familiarity with it. There is no touch screen device that I would feel comfortable ever operating blind. 2) Yes, you said that, but that doesn't make it true. The reality is that most people can operate the basic functions of a well designed physical console, once they'd become accustomed to it. In my own vehicle I can operate the fan, heat/cool level, radio volume and channel settings, and potentially more, all without looking at all. There are other buttons that I'd have to glance at to find, but those are the core functions that I'd be most likely to fiddle with while already in motion. 3) So what? If they are common enough to be predominately featured on a touch screen, then they would be buttons and knobs people would be likely to hit regularly. If they are options that are as rare as you claim, then they would probably be hidden on a touch screen, and impossible to find when needed. Buttons would still be better. I would be LESS bothered by a car that had a mix of the two, with buttons and knobs for both very common and very emergency functions, while also having a touch screen to control less common and important functions, but all buttons would still be better. 4) everyone in the modern world has used touch screens, and they obviously have their uses. I would never object to a touch screen being added to a car, I would only object to it replacing the existing buttons and knobs for common functions. Touch screens are more adaptable than buttons and knobs, so it can be more useful for certain things, like scrolling a track list, or working a map display, nobody questions that, but that doesn't mean it's better for every function, and even on modern smartphones people often comment when buttons are added or removed for things like volume control or home screen access, when technically these functions could be entirely touch-based.
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  10072.  @alexfrideres1198  That's an interesting recitation of the various lies Donald Trump has said about the documents, yes, but the important thing to keep in mind is that none of those things are actually true. If they were, he would not be in any trouble, but since they are not, in actual fact, true, he is in a considerable amount of trouble, at least under US law. They were not declassified because they still had their classified markings. If they had been declassified, under US law, then those markings would not exist. Even if they had not been classified, they contained defense information that a civilian is not allowed to have possession of, whether a former President or not. And even if they had not been classified and had not included US defense information, they were still presidential records, which means that they never at any point belonged to Trump, they belonged to the National Archives, this entire time, so Trump had NO right to have them in his possession, ever. And no, Mar-A-Lago is not any sort of secure facility, Chinese spies came and went down there, as he kept it in operation as a club where randos ate dinner every night. Putting government documents in Mar-A-Lago is not somehow "just as good" as keeping them at the White House. He would have been allowed to bring some documents there WHILE president, but still was required to return all of them once his presidency ended. So he's screwed six ways to Sunday on that. And I'll ask you, do you know what "continuity of government" is? Because your statements seem to indicate that you don't.
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  10252. I can understand not caring about this one way or the other, but it is more reasonable to be triggered by having to choose between "male" and "female" bodies if that is not how you want to identify, than it is to be triggered by the game not explicitly defining whether "body type A" is male or female. If you want to play as a character that "is like you," then you can just pick a body Type A. Problem solved. No more problem exists. Why the drama? Body type A is just how they label the body that has a male-typical physique. It's still in there if you want to use it, nobody is taking anything away from you. Relax. And games generally don't face too much backlash if they don't phrase things this way, especially if they are older games from before when trans people were really considered by the general public, similar to how movies that used certain racially charged language decades ago are generally still allowed today, even though currently you cannot use such terms. If a game chooses to have a "male/female" selector, most people would be fine with that, but if they choose to do something else, that's fine too, and a bit more inclusive to people who do not identify as male or female, or who might want a "Type A" body while still considering themselves "female," or whatever. It hurts literally no one to give these options where a developer chooses to do so. Also, it is factually true that some men give birth. Not men like you or I, obviously, nobody is arguing for "magical thinking biology," but there are men who were born with fully functional uteri and kept them around, and are therefore still able to give birth. Dozens of them do so every year, it's not a matter of controversy, so long as you understand what is being discussed.
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  10300.  @warlans6924  I think you misunderstand how the world works. The world is made up of all sorts of different cultures and belief systems, understandings of how the world functions, and terms to describe these things. The fact that you did not understand that gendered terms were sociological terms twenty years ago does not make it a fact, it is just a belief you had. The fact is that cultures all around the world, for thousands of years, have had different beliefs on the matter. Biology exists, but biology has no genders, because that it a term from a completely different field. You may as well be talking about "currency exchange" being a biological process. If men were so obviously distinct from women as you imply, then people would not have so much trouble differentiating between the two. Some men lean into cultural understandings of "manhood" and look very obviously masculine. Others do not, and look much more culturally feminine. In some cases, men have natural biological features that would make it difficult for them to appear feminine, in other cases, their natural biological features are much less associated with masculinity. Plenty of men and women look similar to the other gender without any effort on their part to do so. And that's before we even get into transgendered people. The simple fact is that biologically, there are differences only in sex, not in gender. Sociologically, the current western society has set up certain cultural expectations for what is appropriate for a man or woman, but these expectations have shifted constantly over the years, and are still shifting today. You imply that you want to cling to a certain viewpoint, and that can be your position on the matter, but it won't be the position of society in ten, twenty, thirty years, because society always moves on.
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  10301.  @warlans6924  I'm not assuming that gender is a sociological term, I'm stating it as fact. You can claim otherwise all you like, the facts don't care about your feelings. You're trying to conflate gender and sex, but these are two different terms with two distinct meanings, similar to how a "sport" and a "game" are two different things, even though many things in the world are both at once. We agree that in most" cases stating a sex and stating a gender have the same outcomes, but there _are exceptions to that, and most of the conflict arises from people unwilling to accept the legitimacy of those exceptions. Just because something is rare does not mean that it does not exist, or should not be given the respect we would give anyone else. Sex is biological. Gender is the role that a society chooses to apply based on that sex. If you insist that the two words are identical in all respects, then why even have both? It remains a fact that men and women are not distinct in obvious ways. There are cultural assumptions as to what men and women are meant to look like, and some look very much like that archetype and others look very different from that archetype. Have you never looked at a woman and mistook her for a man before? Or looked at a man and mistook him for a woman? If you claim that you haven't, then it could only be because you didn't even realize it. I'm not sure what you meant by boys and girls. They're just preadolescent humans. In western society, we currently choose to distinguish between them based on gender roles, but that wasn't always the case. Even 150 years ago, little boys often dressed indistinguishably from little girls, and nobody really bothered with the distinctions until they became older. Not all societies even have terms for male or female children, just "children." Children do have a biological sex, but that is distinct from their genders.
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  10609.  @wothin  >It had much to do with it. The whole thing was about Ukraine going closer and closer to the west, and thus also eventually NATO. But there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. They are entirely allowed to do that. Nothing about that would justify invading Crimea. EVER. > One could also argue that NATO had no right to invade Serbia, but they did and they used their own pretexts. Not remotely equivalent. They do not currently occupy Serbia or unilaterally consider it a part of NATO. They went in to solve a humanitarian crisis and then left them to their own devices once that had been resolved. You literally cannot compare the two things responsibly, and it's a bad faith argument to try it. >All that could have been avoided if NATO listened more to Russia. Sure it certainly would have hurt their pride, but in would have been the better long term strategy. No, all could have been avoided if Russia just accepted that no part of Ukraine belonged to them. "If you give the bully what he wants, maybe he'll stop punching you" is no compelling argument. The bully is still always the bad guy, not the victim for not doing enough to appease him. > The only way Russia has Georgia under control is in the sense that unless Georgia gives up their claims on Abkhazia and South Ossetia, they are most likely never joining NATO or the EU (except if Russia collapses, though then this could be maybe even worse for Georgia). Plus they more or less force Georgia to spend their already rather small budget on their military than on their economy, thus making it even harder to meet EU requirements. Oh is that all? Well that's barely political hegemony at all! >NATO forces enforced the unilateral independence by Kosovo on Serbia. How on earth is this not "an act to control the politics of the region"? Helping a region that wants independence to attain that independence is not "control," and certainly not comparable to the actions Russia has taken to unilaterally carve out "independent states" as Russian satellites. It's hard to tell whether you genuinely believe what you are saying or are just presenting convenient talking points to defend the indefensible, but if the former, you have some serious judgement issues. >Russia does not care whether it is officially invaded by a NATO task mission or whether those NATO members use the existing NATO infrastructure and coordination to invade Russia. But, again, nobody is invading Russia, so that point is moot. Russia is quite literally not WORTH invading. The costs of doing so under any scenario would never be justified. Russia is ONLY at any military risk if THEY are the aggressor and violence is the only way to stop them. >Russia would gladly prefer if it could reduce the likely threat of NATO invasion diplomatically, but that was not listened to back then. Again, for those in the back, Russia does not get a say in who joins NATO. If a country wants to join NATO, that in NO way justifies Russia doing "whatever it takes" to prevent that. If a country wants to join NATO, then Russia can ask them nicely not to, or offer them positive benefits for not joining, but is in NO way EVER justified in violence against them.
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  10610.  @wothin  >I mean, we can also play your naive "pretext game" or "on paper" game. Crimea after all declared unilateral independence before Russia asked them. Lol. You don't actually believe that. Making bad faith arguments adds nothing to the discussion. >Again, you can repeat your pretext all you want. In the end of the day, NATO was used offensively, and "strangely" directly after the USSR dissolved. The message whether intentional or not is clear. Again, not all pretext is equal. A justifiable pretext is not an excuse for an unjustifiable pretext. By that argument, ANY action could be justified under ANY circumstances, which is simply unworkable. >Well, I don't care. I care about Europe being stable and not about winning on some hypothetical "morality war" on who was more morally just. Stability as a result of capitulation is not always the ideal outcome. Neville Chamberlain agreed with you, and it helped lead to WWII. If you allow bullies to just keep taking without consequence, then they will just keep taking until there is nothing left. A just peace requires resistance to evil. Again, nothing Ukraine EVER did or threatened to do or implied that they might do was EVER justification for Russia's military actions within their borders. >The USSR for example appeased the USA in regards to the whole Cuba missile thing. It helped out, and a potential nuclear escalation was avoided. The USSR did not "help out" anyone. They were putting nuclear weapons in Cuba, which is what CAUSED the crisis in the first place. That they removed the problem they caused is no cause for praise. >All polls show that most Crimeas want to be part of Russia. So yeah. Lol, seriously, I know you're kidding here, but it really cast doubt on your credibility on the whole. The thirteenth striking of a clock is not only alarming in itself, but also that it casts doubt on the previous twelve. >Nobody was invading the Baltics either, yet they were afraid of Russia invading them. Russia is not the Baltics. There is no fair basis for comparison. You would have to be quite the lunatic to believe that the west is likely to invade Russia within the forseeable future. >Sure thing, Russia will base their national security on some "trust me bro" logic. This is how the entire rest of the world functions. It's not hard. >The USA was also under no danger to be nuked by Cuba during the Cuban missile crisis, as long as the US did nothing aggressive, so then why was the USA so afraid, that it wanted to even invade Cuba? The Soviet Union was much less trustworthy than the US. They were not equivalent forces in this. Pretending that they were equivalent benefits nothing.
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  10611.  @wothin  >I also do not believe that NATO mainly went to Kosovo out of humanitarian reasons. Why not? What other reason could they have had? They stood to gain nothing, and gained nothing. > So I gave you something similar naively. It is not similar at all though. You are comparing apples to golf balls. >Ah, and so who decides what is "justifiable" now? the same thing that always decides what is "justifiable." Morality. Anyone can justify to themselves that their own behavior is fine, that does not mean that everyone else must agree with them on it. The point is that if one person does something, and has a valid pretext for it, and everyone agrees that he was justified in doing so, then if a second person does something very different, and declares "but pretext!" and everyone responds negatively to that, that is not hypocritical, it is just a value judgement. Some things are justified, others are not, and this has always been the case. >I waited until you come with this default uninformed "WW2 appeasement" thing. But Kudos to you, it took somewhat longer than expected. It's entirely accurate to your argument though. In some cases, what a bully hopes to achieve is not worth the cost of standing up to him, but there must be some sort of response or the bully will just keep bullying until nothing is left. The bully is NEVER justified in his actions under these circumstances. >if you looked at a world map at that time, it were France and the UK who took and controlled everything, as they had colonies in almost every part of the world. We have become less and less supportive of empire and colonialism over time. The modern standard is to not permanently annex anyone, but rather to remove autocrats where necessary to allow the people of a country to thrive on their own. >"oooh but the USSR does not has to be afraid if it is not aggressive thing", Exactly. >Look and when I say something which you do not like, you simply deflect. I have addressed many positions you have taken that I do not like. I only laugh when the positions you take are laughable. >And now you are arbitrarily deciding what one can compare. Moving the goal post. That is not what "moving the goal posts" means. You tried to make an unreasonable comparison point. I pointed out that this comparison was unreasonable. You use a football analogy, you were making the case that what works in high school is just as valid in the NFL. The NFL is not high school. >One could have also argued back then that one would have to be a lunatic to believe that Russia would invade the Baltics. One could, but one would be an idiot to do so, as Russia has invaded several of their neighbors over the past decade. It's entirely possible that Russia would invade the Baltics if they thought they could get away with it, although I don't think anyone seriously believes that would be their immediate next step. Maybe after Ukraine. >Yes, they were not. The USA had back then much more nukes than the USSR AFAIK, around 12 times. So the USA was much more threatening. They may have had more nukes, but were less likely to actually use any of them, because they were a more responsible world power. The USSR was an oppressive government that had no friends beyond those that they controlled via force. The US was economic allies with most of the world at that time. There was no risk to Russia beyond what risk they created themselves. It was only their aggression toward the west and their oppression of their own people that posed any risk to Russia. If Russia had released the soviet states to their own independence and stopped involving themselves in military conflicts, then the entire cold war would have evaporated.
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  10612.  @wothin  >They basically dismantled the last vastige of Yugoslavia. And? What did NATO gain from that? All they did was set the country up on its best possible footing moving forward and sent it on its way. They didn't turn it into a little puppet-state or anything. >They are quite similar. Nope. Saying that does not make it so. >You are still a teenager, aren't you? Who decides what is moral? Everyone. Pretext only matters if everyone agrees that this pretext is a valid one. You can't just do what you want, declare "pretext!" and expect everyone else to be fine with that, or declare them "unfair" if they think your pretext is nonsense while another guy's pretext was accepted. >You have to know why somebody does what it does. And Russia always was very loud about it. You can either ignore and dismiss it or you can try to address it. I'm not arguing that Russia doesn't express reasons for their decisions, I'm only pointing out that their reasons are almost always bad ones that boil down to "we would like to do bad things, and these guys were in the way of us doing those bad things, so we had to knock them over." You can accept that these are the reasons they claim, without accepting that these are valid reasons for their actions, and can respond negatively to their actions. >Russia is whether you like it or not powerful enough to do stuff which will bother most of Europe. So what is more important? You feeling of moral superiority or the actual stability on the ground? "Stability" that requires allowing Russia to seize more and more territory and concessions by force is not "stability," any more than allowing a forest first to continue unchecked is "stability." "Stability" is Russia stops starting problems. So long as Russia starts problems with their neighbors, it is responsible to push them back to where they were before they started problems, not to just accept that they get whatever they want. If they want to advance and grow as a country, then they need to do so using peaceful methods, not military methods. If they cannot do this, then they do not deserve to advance. >You laugh, when you can't respond. It's a protection mechanism in humans. I laugh when it is a kinder response than to believe that you were serious. It is the only way to avoid the sorts of ad hominem attacks that you make, to assume that you are more capable than some of your statements would indicate if read straight. >You did by arbitrarily saying something is unreasonable because you don't like it. I never arbitrarily said anything was unreasonable because I didn't like it. I said it was unreasonable because it lacked reason. >If it were so unreasonable, you could easily simply point to the logical inconsistencies, but as always you simply use pointless talking points, by acting "upset". This is a debating falsehood used by bad faith actors. "I have said nonsense, but I refuse to accept any response you make to it, and therefore declare that you cannot respond to it, therefore, I win." Junk in, junk out. Expect nothing otherwise. >The West has also invaded Russia over the last decades. Nonsense. The west has not touched anything within Russian territory since WWII, and that was Nazi Germany, the side that NATO was fighting AGAINST (including the post-war West Germans). No current NATO government has ever invaded Russia. Again, there is ZERO credible threat of the west setting a single foot into Russia militarily. The ONLY military risk to Russia from NATO forces is IF Russia unilaterally attacks a neighboring country and NATO deems it necessary to intervene (or, I suppose, any other country, but their neighbors seem to be most at risk, since Russia _constantly attacks them already_). Even such a justified, defensive war is extremely unlikely, and is particularly unlikely to cross onto Russian territory. Total war just isn't done anymore, particularly with nukes on the table. >So when the USA, a country which increased their nuclear arsenal from a few hundreds to 25.000 within 10 years, puts nukes next to the USSR, it's no biggie. Because they are "responsible", even though they were already unhinged enough to use them. But when the USSR puts nukes next to the USA, it's apparently the aggressor. Exactly.
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  10613.  @wothin  > You seriously ask what the west has from finally destroying the last vestige of a socialist state in Europe? Yes? You don't have a serious answer? NATO hasn't gone after Norway or the Netherlands yet. >Pretext just means that this is the "official reason" for the actual geopolitical goal. Whether somebody agrees is a different thing. And that goes back to my original point, that if the west does something on the pretext of "humanitarian crisis," then they are still going to be judged based on whether people agree that their intervention was justified. If there is not an existing humanitarian crisis for them to intervene in, then they cannot use that pretext, so it's always best practices to not do humanitarian crisis'. Also, just because NATO uses a pretext and it is viewed as a justified action, does not mean that other people can claim that same pretext in a very different situation and be justified in being offended when nobody accepts their rationale, ie, there has never been a valid justification for anything Russia has done in Ukraine. >Their reasons boil down to that they are super paranoid about the national security. They will, whether you like it or not, do everything to reduce that threat. And again, "irrational paranoia" is never a valid argument. If they are that paranoid, they need to seek professional help, not invade their neighbors. Nobody on the world stage should go "oh well, Russia is insane and using that as an excuse to murder people in their neighboring countries, but they're just paranoid. . . what time is football on?" If Russia is trying to do bad things, then their reasons for doing so become largely irrelevant to whether outside forces should act to prevent it. >What NATO did was a very dumb thing. Instead of using Russia's fear of NATO expansion to force Russia to always play ball, because that way they could have avoided their biggest fear, NATO did the dumbest thing. In the current timeline Russia's main way to stop NATO expansion was to create frozen conflicts in Georgia and Ukraine, because looking in the past, if that did not happen, NATO would have expanded into Ukraine and Georgia. Considering how much Russia's government is willing to suffer for their national security, it would be rather easy to make Russia play ball most of the time, with NATO expansion being only a threat. But no, emotional people like you prevailed. I thank god, that during the cold war, people like you were not in power. That would be an extremely convenient narrative for Russia, if it were true. "Just never get in their way and let them bully their neighbors all they want, because if we get involved it will just "destabilize" things. Well when Russia is trying to prevent their neighbors form joining NATO, that is destablizing things. It's not like there was a way to make Russia less paranoid, if NATO had retreated from the region, they just would have insisted on even larger retreats. Maybe let Russian forces occupy Poland, just to make sure Germany doesn't get too close or something. There never would have been a point where Russia would have been satisfied that they were safe from invisible "western aggression," and in the process, those neighbors would have been irrevocably harmed. If Russia chooses to invade Georgia or Ukraine, that is NOT the fault of NATO for being nice to those countries, it is NOT the fault of those countries wanting to be nice to the west. It is ENTIRELY the fault of Russia. Your argument is terrible. It's like saying if Vladimir got divorced from his wife, and they had been separated for years, and then he found out that she was dating some other guy, so he went over and beat her up. Your response would have been "well, she shouldn't have dated anyone, that would only piss off Vladimir," when the only appropriate response is "throw Vladimir in jail." >If that threat was not present, except if they were aggressive, then Russia would do everything to not be aggressive. Oh, it's cute that you think anyone believes that. >Yes and this is 7 decades ago. Considering people like to bring up that the USSR invaded Czechoslovakia all the time, which was 5 decades ago, this is not far off. I certainly didn't bring it up. I don't think I've ever heard anyone bring it up. I brought up how they invaded Georgia and Ukraine, both within the last ten years. How often has the west invaded Russia within the past 20? 30? The last time the west invaded Russia was before Putin was born. >No current Russian government also invaded Baltics, it was the USSR government. Yet the Baltics are afraid. Why? What will your mental gymnastics be in that case? You were the one that brought up the threat of a Baltic invasion, I pointed out that I don't think anyone is seriously concerned about it. People are much more concerned about Russia invading the countries that it is actively invading. >Before the USSR collapsed there was also "NO WAY" NATO would be ever used offensively, yet after the USSR collapsed NATO was started to be used offensively. This is just such a bad argument and we've already been over "why" multiple times. Stop trying with this nonsense. NATO's humanitarian interventions are NOTHING when compared to the Russian annexation of their neighbors. You can't justify the latter by pointing to the former. Ever. Move on.
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  10614.  @wothin  Social democratic countries are a form of socialism. I get the impression that maybe you meant "communist" countries, which is a very different thing than "socialist" ones. And Kosovo was after the Cold War was over. Nothing NATO did there was a strategic advantage to them, beyond that a stable and peaceful country is better for everyone. >The USA was super paranoid that it threatened to blockade and even invade Cuba. Yes it did do that, but it was not super paranoid, it was pragmatic. The Us could not allow Soviet missiles in Cuba. Again, the US and Soviet Union were not "equivalent." You cannot insist on "well if the US did something, then the Soviets could do it too and it should be ok." The Soviets were a despotic autocracy with a history of conquering and occupying their neighbors. Until they allowed the satellite states to go free, they could not claim political legitimacy with the west. >You say that NATO's offensive use was valid because of a "valid pretext", others say it was not valid, as there is nothing objective about whether something is "valid" or not, except your own conveniently chosen criteria. Nobody says that the NATO pretext was not valid, unless they are acting in bad faith to pursue an anti-NATO agenda. >Not sure what you are trying to accomplish by using a strawman argument. I notice you are highly emotional on that topic and you try to appeal to emotions the whole time, but what is the point to misrepresent my point? Do you just need to vent? You were advocating that the west should just capitulate to Putin's demands and allow him control over his neighbors, whether they like that or not. It is a fair question, how far do YOU believe is too far? There is no reason whatsoever to believe that Putin would just be satisfied with Georgia and Ukraine, how many countries do you believe he should be entitled to absorb, before the west should intervene? >That's as silly as saying that just because the USA invaded country X, they want now to invade every country in the world. I mean it's a good tactic for fear mongering however and works on the uneducated ones. We can talk about that once Russia pulls out of Georgia and Crimea. Until then, Russia is still permanently occupying territory of their neighbors, against the will of the legitimate governments of those countries, which puts them significantly behind the US in moral standing. > You have this naive "the West == good guys" syndrome. You live in a bubble. You have this irrational "the West != good guys" syndrome. You live in a bubble. >Let me guess, you will now find to excuse those official policies? Let's see your mental gymnastics. The "official policies" are intended as deterrents, to not officially rule anything off the table, so that nobody pushes their luck. In terms of actual practice, however, it is far less likely that the US would ever push that button without a reasonable belief that someone else had pushed theirs first. You can believe otherwise, you would just be wrong to do so. > You probably do not even realize how laws and states work and on what principle they operates. PS: It's mainly based on "monopoly on violence". I know, I know, not very romantic. That's just an anarchist nonsense viewpoint that is only actually true in autocracies. I am sorry that wherever you live has made you feel that way about government. While it is true that the government had a "monopoly on violence," in a democratic government, they use that monopoly power to exert the will of the people. Only the government is allowed to use force, but the government can only use that force where the people have indicated it should be used. Obviously it would be impractical to do a national poll in each specific instance of necessitated violence, so policies are formed and representatives are chosen to make those decisions in the moment, but this all flows from the decisions of the voters that these are the people who should be setting and carrying out those policies. Ultimately the people are responsible for the choices of the government. >Eastern Europe, especially the Baltics, Poland etc, definitely joined NATO because they wanted to have a guarantee against Russia. Well fair enough, that's their business, but either way, NATO is a good club to join, and its purpose is no longer specific to Russia. It's basically like the UN, but with teeth, its goal is to ensure stability in Europe by ensuring that any minor violence against the weak will be met with massive violence by the strong. If Ukraine had already been a part of NATO, none of this would have happened. If Russia had been a part of NATO, this would not have happened either. Russia is currently the only real threat to peace in the European theater, and that is entirely of their own making. >Also, it's irrelevant whether it's behind your life time. Most of Russia's population are on the elderly side, for them that is rather close to their lifetimes, as well as the effects of WW2 were rather relevant for most people alive today in Russia. The security of Ukraine should not be hostage to Russia's senility. I understand the situation, I just don't accept your attempts to justify Russia's activities. They have their reasons. Their reasons are terrible and they need to stop trying this.
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  10615.  @wothin  >Simply no. They are still strongly capitalist and none of them say they are socialist. Most countries are a mix of capitalist and socialist elements. Going to either extreme tends to work out poorly. the point being, there would be no reason for NATO to directly target a country because of socialism. >I was not. That you interpret that from my comments simply says that you are emotional about that topic and you simply want to vent. No, it was literally the argument that you were making. >Russia is as much occupying Georgia as much as the USA aka NATO is occupying Serbia. >And in case of Crimea, the majority supports Russia. At least that was the case before Corona. So you agree that Russia won't pull out of those countries and allow them to continue how they were before the Russian invasions then. This is why the world has no trust in Russia. >I do think the West is as everybody else, entities with their own self-interest and geopolitical goals. Of course the West has its own self interest and goals, and is not purely benevolent and self-sacrificing, but the goals that the west pursues tend to much more often be in the best interests of the people of an area than Russia is. They are much less likely to cause unnecessary harm. Russia has invaded two of its neighbors in the past decade and occupied their territory, however you want to apologize for that. The west has not done this. They are not perfect, but they are very certainly better, and that does make them "the good guys," in relative terms. >And who decides who should be part of the government? The consent of the governed, in a democracy. The people vote for representatives, and then those representatives, and the people they choose, end up in government positions. If the representatives make choices that the people disagree with, then they are replaced. >Why should anybody have power to decide what jurisdiction I'm under? They don't, you have the freedom to leave at any time. But if you live within a society of more than one person, then the other members of that society have a say in what goes on there, and can agree among themselves on rules that might curtail your actions. If you dislike these rules, you can either convince them to change their minds, or find a different community that follows rules you prefer. There is no other way to manage populations of people larger than one. > Maybe me and my town want to secede. Hm, would your democratic governments allow that? I think not. Why is that? Because of monopoly on violence. You can try to declare independence, but after a certain time after you paid no taxes, they will invade your new country. You and your town do not own the land under your feet, that is shared by the entire nation. You are free to leave, you cannot take your land with you. If you want to secede and take the land of your region with you, you do not need the consent of the government to do that, you would need the consent of the people of the rest of the country to do that, and the government would just be carrying out their will. >Yes, and you'd like to escalate it further. If becoming allies with their neighbors causes Russia to "escalate," then that is entirely Russia causing problems, NOT those nations getting friendly with their neighbors. Do not blame the ex-wife for being beaten. >But they won't. You can either try to compromise and actually achieve something positive in the long term OR you can play this childish morality game, feel morally righteous but achieve nothing in the end or in the worst case only higher probability to conflict. There is no rational compromise here. Either Putin gets exactly what he wants, or he will keep coming after it until he does. Anything else is temporary posturing. There is no point in playing the game of "oh, if only we appease him now, that will solve the problem," there is no evidence of that, and quite a lot of evidence to the contrary. No, the west must not take the first military action against Russia, but neither should they condone Russia taking unjustifiable military action against their neighbors. It is dangerously naive to believe otherwise.
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  10616.  @wothin  Since you can no longer defend Russia's stance in this, you have shifted to gaslighting and deflection. >You are moving the goalpost. It all started with me simply saying Russia has reasons to distrust NATO and now it became, whatever this weird train of excuses and moral posturing is. But the point is that Russia never had any reason to distrust NATO. They can definitely trust in NATO to oppose them if they attempt to conquer their neighbors. Beyond that, they have absolutely no reason to fear NATO, unless they become such an utterly failed state that NATO might need to intervene to protect their population, in which case, NATO is not Russia's problem, Russia is. >You act like the west supporting various civil wars around the world did not harm many people massively. Postures shift over time. The Cold War was a much more dangerous period, and one that we'd like to avoid shifting back to. The west did sometimes make moves that we don't look back on with pride, but by and large the actions of the west were at least better than those of the Soviets of the same time period, and in service of preventing the Soviet Union's continued expansion. So long as the West in general was a free democracy, and the Soviets were an autocratic and oppressive state, it was in the world's interest to keep as much of it out of their hands as possible. Again, within the last decade, Russia has invaded two of its neighbors and retains claims in both. The West has not. When Russia pulls out of those regions and compensates them for their trouble, THEN we can talk about moral equivalency, not a moment before. >And why? If my little village does not want to be part of that government, why should we be forced? Just a little thought experiment for you. "A village" is not a person. A person is a person. If YOU do not want to be a part of that government, then YOU are free to leave it and go somewhere else. If every person in your village wants to leave that government, then every one of them is free to leave and go somewhere else. But the people of that village do not own that land, the sum total of the people of the nation own that land, and if you want to remove that land from the people's control, then you need to gain the consent of ALL the people, not just of the people currently living on that land. If you don't want to play anymore, you can go home, but you don't own the court. >You do not have the freedom to leave at any time. Unless you actually refer to physically leaving the country, which then amounts to "Kosovars could simply move to Albania if they wanted to". True. Although it's worth pointing out that many autocratic regimes make it difficult, if not impossible for their citizens to leave, as was the case with the Soviet Union. Now if the external society determined that unacceptable human rights violations are taking place within a country, they might choose to intervene, or if you want to push to legally change the laws of your land then you have the right to do so, but at no point can some smaller unit of a society unilaterally declare himself exempt from the rules of that society, while remaining within it. So long as you are within a society, you must follow the rules that this society has made for people living there. This is only a problem in cases where the rules are not made by the governed. >What if that was not one town, but 2 towns who wanted to secede and form the same countries? What about 3, etc? Hm. There would need to be enough to gain a majority vote of the entire population, OR that the majority of the entire population agree to let them go, OR that some outside organization felt that it was necessary and justified to recognize the separation. Recognizing separatists is extremely rare, and typically boils down to the ruling regime making things absolutely intolerable for the separatist group, and seeing no way to resolve that within the existing leadership. It is not typically "we just don't like the laws here because we're special." >In the end it is Europe's problem. And I prefer a save and stable Europe. You probably would prefer Europe to be burning down, if you could get the the chance to feel morally superior. No, I would just prefer a safe, stable, and FREE Europe, over one where every decade or so another country is "safely and stably" absorbed into the Russian state. >Not sure what "rational compromise" even means. Compromises are compromises, they are neither rational nor irrational, it's a give and take kind of thing. If Putin creates a crisis, gains ground, and then "compromises" by giving some, but not all of it back, that is not a rational compromise. It is not always rational to just give a person half of whatever it is they want, otherwise you will just keep losing half of what you have until nothing is left. Rational compromises are when you give some reasonable concession in return for reasonable concessions from the other side. So far Putin has offered nothing at all, beyond "I probably won't do more bad things right now." >The initial topic was simply that Russia has reasons to be afraid of NATO and they will try to not let them expand any further around Russia. And the fact remains that they have no reason to be afraid of NATO, unless they intend to start more wars. Maybe they are afraid, but it would not be a rational fear, like the fears their neighbors have of Russia. If WW3 breaks out, that is Russia's choice, there is nothing that anyone else can do about that.
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  10617.  @wothin  >That's basically you simply dismissing Russia's fear of NATO. Yes. I dismiss it because it is irrational. They should be treated as adults, if they do terrible things on the basis of an irrational fear, then they deserve no respect for doing so. They deserve no concessions. >I mean feel free in doing so, but that brought us the current Russia situation in the first place. No, the current Russia situation has nothing to do with a fear of NATO, it has to do with a lust for power, for regaining control over Eastern Europe. That would remain even if NATO disbanded. None of this would be happening if Russia were not determined to be considered a major world power, a status which they have not earned by merit. ONLY Russia is responsible for the current situations, not Russia's victims. >Now you are looking for excuses. As expected. Now who's living in a naive fantasy. You insist on absolute perfection from the West if they claim any sort of moral legitimacy, while defending any sort of barbarism out of Russia. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. The west is not perfect, but it IS better. > I think that the West's "achievement" of bringing back slavery to Libya and basically damning 7 million people to live in a failed state is much worse than whatever Russia did to Georgia and Ukraine. But that's only because you have a very biased take on both situations that is strongly out of step with reality. If you lived in the real world, you would not believe either of those things. >Why should I leave or my village leave or the collection of villages? That is entirely your choice to make. If you live within a society, then you should always have the choice to leave it, or to follow its rules. But a society is unlivable if people are allowed to partake in all of its benefits without having any rule of law. That is an impossible state of being. Every society needs the right to determine the laws that govern it, and if you are unwilling to follow that laws, then it is better for you to leave it than for everyone else to just have to put up with you not following those rules. Land is not a person, the land is owned by the overall population. A person owns his land, but only within the rules of his village. A village owns its land, but only within the rules of its state. A state owns its land, but only within the rules of its nation. A nation owns its land, but only within the rules of the world. If a village wants to leave the country they are a part of, they are free to do so as individuals, but if they want to take the land of that country with them, then they require the consent of the country in total. >So according to your argument, all separatists or people who want to have a changed government, should simply leave the country? That's one option, Option A. Option B would be to work within the system to enact change, such as convincing the majority of their country that they should be allowed to separate, or by changing the laws of their country such that they feel no need to separate. In either case, they need to achieve consent from the people as a whole. Option C would be to appeal to an external agent to help them achieve independence, but this should be avoided in almost all cases. It should only be used when the government is intolerably oppressing them in their current state, and recognizing their independence would be preferable to accepting the population as refugees. >, all the Ukrainians who did not want to be part of the USSR, should have simply left the USSR? After all they should have asked every person in the country first and if others did not agree, they were out of luck? Two problems with your analogy. One, people were not allowed to leave the USSR. Those who attempted to do so were often killed. If the USSR has an open emigration policy, then sure, leaving would have been a valid option. Second, the USSR was not a true democracy, it was an autocracy, so the rule of the government did not represent the will of the people within that government. If a nation of three million people must follow a rule because a dozen guys said they had to, then sure, they have a right to revolt. If three million people must follow rules made by the people that the majority of that population chose to make and enforce rules, then those that choose to break the rules are not going against some faceless bureaucrats, they are going against the will of their fellow citizens. Government is only valid as an expression of the will of the people. >"The external society"? You have weird ways to refer to "the West". I was speaking broadly. It's a situation that has come up thousands of times over human history, and "the west" was only one potential example. >What gives some outside organization the authority to decide that? You are simply looking for ways to basically say "if the West decided that". Outcomes are basically determined by the agreement of the world at large, "the west" and all other parties. There are dissenting viewpoints, of course. >But according to your logic, all those Kosovars could has simply leave the country. You are not very consistent. Geopolitics is very complicated. There is no "one size fits all" solution, only reasonable guidelines. What is appropriate to one scenario, with all its complexities, might be completely inappropriate to another. >Again, Russia does its aggression to stop Ukraine and Georgia joining NATO. Again, Russia would do the same Aggression regardless of NATO, their issue has nothing to do with NATO, it has to do with Ukraine and Georgia preferring to be allied with countries other than Russia. Now if your argument is rather "Russia would not be doing this if Ukraine and Georgia agreed to do their bidding," then that may be true, but in no world would it be just to enslave those countries to Russia. >You dismissing them won't change anything. That behavior led to the present day situation. So again you can be proud of yourself of what your thinking achieved in Ukraine and Georgia. Again, NOTHING led to the present situation OTHER than Russia's insistence that their neighbors bend the knee. No actions by Ukraine, Gerogia, or anyone in the west contributed to what is happening today in any way. The ONLY actor here is Russia, it is ENTIRELY their responsibility, always. The ONLY way to stop this is for Russia to just. . . stop. That's it. That's all there is. >So beforehand you you did not think the Baltics were justified to afraid of Russia, but now you do claim that they are justified. If the Baltics had used their fear to justify ATTACKING Russia, then I do not believe their fear would justify their actions. If they used their fear to seek admission into NATO, an organization they would have every reason to join with or without that fear? Fine, that's their business. Personally, I don't think their fear would have been justified decades ago, and I don't feel that they are immediately at risk from Russia, but if Russia continues to absorb its neighbors without resistance from the west, then Russia would be knocking on their door eventually. I state my position as I believe it to be. If you question that position from a different angle, then I will consider the question from that angle, and might expand what I believe on the matter. This is how a rational discussion should function.
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  10674.  @TheCharleseye  A) It's not naive when you have a military capable of beating any other military in the world twice over. In the US, an armed citizenry is pointless, at best. They only need it in Ukraine because they are a smaller country with a very dangerous neighbor on their doorstep B) The gun ownership is contingent on the aspect of the well regulated militia. It was in a time where the US regular army was basically non-existent, and they did require an armed populous to supplement that in times of need. That has long since no longer been the case. If they intended private gun owership for a purpose other than that, then why even include the well regulated militia portion at all? Or why not include other reasons for gun ownership, such as "personal protection" or whatever, if those aspects were also important? Every word in the amendments has a purpose, and words that were left out were left out deliberately too. C) I think there's plenty of support for the idea that the US military is outsized, but it's an unfortunate necessity in the world we live in. There is no other force sufficiently large to cover the slack. As Teddy said, "walk softly and carry a big stick," if the Us did not have that big stick, there would be a lot more situations like Ukraine where bullies tried to get their way. I fully support the other NATO countries expanding their own militaries to the point that the US can reduce ours a bit, but that step has to come first or there would be a power vacuum. Also, while the founders did not want a large standing army, that changed quickly after 1812. Temporary armies are not very effective in serious situations. An army that only mobilizes when needed would be pointless in most modern situations. Even if we did employ that model, it would in no way justify civilian gun ownership. In most countries that do employ some form of "trained civilian army,": the weapons themselves are still stored in military facilities, and only handed out when soldiers are needed. D) You're correct that the US has problems other than gun ownership, although conveniently the same party that is most defensive about gun ownership is also the one most opposed to fixing socioeconomic strife in any productive way. The thing is though, the US socioeconomic strife is not higher than a lot of our allies, and yet our murder rate is much higher. And the US suicide rate is not higher than many of these countries either, and yet the murder rate is much higher. The difference is the guns. Just the guns. Take the guns away, there would still be crime, there would still be suicides, but there would be a lot LESS of them, like in other US-equivalent countries with better gun control policies. It's also important to be careful when comparing "crime rates" in different countries. For example the UK considers a friendly bar fight in which nobody was seriously injured as "violent crime," whereas the US only records pretty serious incidents. The UK murder rate is only around 1/5th of the US one though. And nobody wants to "keep cities the way they are" in terms of crime, there have actually been many policies that have helped in that regard and even with recent spikes crime is WAY down from when I was a kid, but it's an unfortunate reality that when you have high density areas you get more crime, and when you have high economic inequality you get more crime, and when you have these factors together, it gets even worse, so cities will always have more crime than rural areas. This is not a fault of the good people who life there, it's just an unfortunate reality. It's worth keeping in mind that on a per-capita basis, there is plenty of crime in rural areas too, it just gets more spread out so it attracts less attention. It's actually 20% safer to live in a city than in the country. But you're right, it's important to work on laws like the build Back Better plan that help solve these problems, an also to pass more gun laws.
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  10701.  @GaryUSMCvet  You're arguing my point for me. Yes, everyone on US soil is subject to US laws, because everyone on US soil is subject to US jurisdiction, including newborns, and therefore those newborns are US citizens according to the 14th. If those newborns were not subject to US jurisdiction, then US laws would not apply to them. "Only American citizens are subject to the jurisdiction (allegiance to)" See, this is the main problem we're having here, you seem to think that "jurisdiction" means "allegiance to," when in fact, that is nothing like what that word means. Look it up. I get it,, sometimes you get a word wrong and go off on a tangent, but better to learn your mistake and move on than to keep repeating it. Also, Trumball and Howard do not define "jurisdiction" it is an actual word with an actual meaning that predates both men by centuries. Maybe they got it wrong too, which would be embarrassing to them, but irrelevant to the law itself. Look, you seem to have no interest in looking up the definition, so I will do it for you: jurisdiction noun ju·​ris·​dic·​tion ˌju̇r-əs-ˈdik-shən Synonyms of jurisdiction 1 : the power, right, or authority to interpret and apply the law a matter that falls within the court's jurisdiction 2 a : the authority of a sovereign power to govern or legislate b : the power or right to exercise authority : control 3 : the limits or territory within which authority may be exercised If the US has a legal right to exercise power against you, then you are under US jurisdiction. Foreign citizens are under US jurisdiction while in the US, US citizens are within foreign jurisdiction while in a foreign country (although the US can certainly argue for exceptions to be made). Jurisdiction has NOTHING to do with allegiance to anything.
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  10772.  @Terry-Hesticle  1. Yeah, he's been around a long time, and he's always been progressive for the time that he was in. The same policies that people slam him for today, black politicians at the time thought were a serious improvement. His policies today reflect the reality of today, and that's all anyone should want from him. 2. I'm afraid you bought into some fake news there. If you're talking about Robert Byrd, he was not a leader in the KKK. If anyone should be shamed of him, it should be the people who elected him to Congress for fifty years. 3. Yup, but it was an improvement over previous legislation and largely supported by the black community at the time. Again, he evolves with the times. 4. That is a gross misrepresentation. Some of those facilities were used on a very temporary basis to handle an unexpected flood of incoming migrants, and children were only separated from parents if those parents were being charged with a crime (such as drug trafficking), and then quickly moved to better facilities. The reason people complained about the Trump era policies is that they were detaining WAY more people for FAR longer periods of times, sometimes up to years, and were separating ALL families, often without even taking proper documentation so that parents and children could later be reunited. To compare the Obama era policy to Trumps would be like saying that the US internment camps in WWII were "just as bad" as the German ones. 5. I agree, I just don't see it, because I haven't been primed to by right-wing fake news obsessing over it. It's like with Hillary and her emails, if you repeat nonsense often enough, people start to think "maybe there's an actual story there," but no, it's always just nonsense, no matter how often it's repeated. And for the record the "least informed demographic" is the Fox News viewer, not young people. And "both sides-ism" only serves to reward the bad actors, because they can get away with anything and you'll just "well, both sides do it" to the problem. No, it's not a "both sides" thing, Democrats are not perfect, but Republicans are measurably worse in EVERY category, and "both sides" just lets them off the hook for that.
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  10998.  @luciussvartwulf6630  Except that we know for a fact that they were able to vote, if they did vote that their votes were counted, and that if they chose not to, that was entirely their own business. The fact remains that the only documented problem was the vote counting machines, but that because of that, polling places were collecting all the votes up to be counted later, which they were. If you cast a ballot in one of these polling places, it WAS counted. None of the issues prevented votes from being cast. I've read some articles that some Republicans were telling other Republicans NOT to vote, because they did not trust the voting systems. That is entirely their own problem, not the state, and certainly not Democrats'. Also, at no point did any judge "prevent them from voting or their votes being counted." The voting process was allowed to continue non-stop as the law allows. Republicans sought to extend the voting time beyond that point under Arizona law, but there was no legal justification for doing so, as they were perfectly capable of voting within the existing time limits. This is not remotely comparable to Republicans REDUCING voting hours BELOW the previous limits, making it harder to vote than it was before. You are presenting a false equivalency here, either deliberately, or because someone else told you to. And let's be honest, Kari Lake voters are inherently unreliable narrators, she ran on a platform of election denial-ism, so "Kari Lake voters are reporting voter fraud" is about as valuable a report as "Putin claims Ukraine is being mean to them." "Public statements from a great number of republicans" has lost all meaning after the "2000 Mules" nonsense. You might as well say "I've heard form the Elf on the Shelf" that Arizona Democrats are up to no good."
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  11066.  @supertrouperJC02  I think the problem is that you "watch the hearing yourself and decide for yourself," but given the conclusions you've reached, you do not have the legal training necessary to differentiate between what is credible evidence and what is nonsense. The Trump campaign has produced no credible evidence of any of their claims, and no, these things do not "need to be investigated" if there is no credible evidence that there is a problem. Just accusing that something bad happened is not grounds to throw out or even slow down the voting process if there is no actual evidence that something bad happened. Anyone can just claim that martians rigged the election for their lizard king overlord, that does not make it a fact. I can claim that Big Foot and the Loch Ness Monster were spotted in lake Erie with a sack containing ten million ballots that were all for Trump and signed by people who have been dead since the Civil War, therefore all Trump ballots should be discarded, but that doesn't mean anyone should actually pay attention to that nonsense. Most of what you allege here is nonsense. You believe it to be true because it supports the outcome you want, but it is complete fabrication. The events you describe never happened in any form. The only reason we are in disagreement that "election integrity matters" is because while you say that, your own stances on what should be done conflict with that. My position is in support of election integrity, your positions undermine it by chasing fairytales.
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  11068.  @supertrouperJC02  Yes, but also, in addition to that Constitutional clause you cited, Pennsylvania law requires that their legislator just send the electors that the state voted for. They do NOT have the legal right to disenfranchise Pennsylvania's voters and just pick whomever they want. If they wanted to have that right, at minimum they would have needed to pass a NEW law to that effect BEFORE the election. If anyone has been telling you otherwise, then they were either ignorant of the law or lying to you. Btw, here are two videos by Legal Eagle, talking about Trump's various lawsuits, and why they are all nonsense. The most recent one is first, and covers things like the most recent challenges you cited, as well as addressing the "eye witness accounts" claims: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-nblE8ps2M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ha7iWECm_8E He is certainly not unbiased in this, I make no claims that he is, but he is informative whether you agree with his opinions on the matter or not. The TR;DL on that is that most of the "eyewitness accounts" boil down to people claiming that they "heard someone say that maybe they were doing something shady," but that is not actually "witnessing" anything, that is just hearsay, and regardless, the Trump campaign never presented any actual evidence in a legal setting, because if it was fabricated they could get in legal trouble for that. Instead, they just put it out in public, where there is no burden of proof. They only lie in places where they won't get in trouble for lying, and in places where they would get in trouble for lying, they have nothing to say. I'm trying my best here and it's clear I could say anything it doesn't matter because you're hung up on the Trump campaign propaganda.
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  11069.  @supertrouperJC02  Ok, we need to be clear here, which "hearing" are you talking about? Are you talking about the one before the Pennsylvania legislature? That's not a legal proceeding, there is no "outcome" to that. It's just an airing of grievances. It's not like anything that happens there would lead to a change in the outcome of the 2020 election. If we're talking about the court cases, which one specifically? What's the name on the case? It's also important to note that there is not one count in which there were not Republican watchers present. Individuals might have wanted to be "watchers," and were kept out because they did not meet the qualifications for that role, but that is not the same thing as the count not being watched. Not everyone who wants to be a watcher is allowed to be. "And Of course they don't just pick whomever they want, the point is that the legislature has the authority to set the ground rules for the election process. " They do. Before the election. Which was almost a month ago. It is too late for them to do anything about that now. " Those ground rules which were set before the election were broken, therefore giving them the authority to declare the election unconstitutional, " No, the rules were not broken, and no, even if they were they do not have the authority to just declare the election unconstitutional and pick whoever they want instead. "Likely the Electoral votes wouldn't go to Trump if they win, they would just be removed for Biden, and if this is followed up in a few key states," Except that none of that would happen, and if by some chance it did start happening, no patriotic American could possibly support it. That is the definition of tyranny. " This happened with John Adams, so there is a clear precedent." Electoral laws have changed massively since John Adams, the argument you're making is equivalent to saying we should throw out all African American votes because when Franklin Pierce was elected they didn't have the right to vote. Precedent becomes invalid when the underlying systems that precedent were based on have shifted.
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  11070.  @supertrouperJC02  Votes were not "injected into the system" that is not "proven." If it were proven, then there would be consequences. Instead it was merely asserted without any evidence to support it, outside a court of law. That is pretty much the opposite of "proven." Did you watch Crhis Kreb's interview on 60 Minutes? If you are worried that votes got "entered into the system" that might not match the actual votes cast, don't worry, that did not happen. In any contested area, they have done hand recounts of paper ballots, and the hand recounts ended up at the same numbers the digital ones did, so no "magical votes" "appeared out of nowhere." They were just perfectly ordinary votes being properly counted the way votes are meant to be counted. Even IF there were some evil "USB drive conspiracy" that had led to massively incorrect outcomes in the early votes (which there was not), the hand recounts would have shown such a discrepancy (which there was not). "Not only that, they all shut down voting early, which was against the rules the legislature gave, and in the middle of the night uploaded these massive vote counts for Biden" You make it sound sinister that they continued to count legal votes into the late hours, and then uploaded their results as they finished up for the night. That's just the process, there is absolutely nothing sinister about that. It is working how everyone intended it to work, including Republicans. You're only bothered by the results in Democratic Cities because that is where Democratic votes typically do come from. The old joke is that there are no red states or blue states, there are just red states with blue cities, and it only depends how big those cities are relative to everything else. Obviously the bulk of Biden's votes would come from cities and urban suburbs, and ALSO because Democrats take the pandemic more seriously there were always going to be a lot more mail-in votes for Democrats, which were the last to come in. EVERYONE expected that whatever the election day votes brought it, it would only tend to lean more toward Biden as the mail-in ballots got counted. The only thing that was even in doubt would be whether it would swing enough toward Biden to offset what Trump got on election day. It turned out it was.
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  11184.  @billnelson3405  You are insisting on evidence that is much more comprehensive than what you've provided. You say that "opinions don't matter to me," and yet all you've put forth is your opinion on the data. You may be "a scientist," but you're way outside your specialty here. Here are specific points of disagreement with your assertions: "Alina Chan, a molecular biologist and postdoctoral researcher at the Broad Institute of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and Harvard, said in a lengthy Twitter thread that the Wuhan subgrant wouldn’t fall under the gain-of-function moratorium because the definition didn’t include testing on naturally occurring viruses “unless the tests are reasonably anticipated to increase transmissibility and/or pathogenicity.” She said the moratorium had “no teeth.” But the EcoHealth/Wuhan grant “was testing naturally occurring SARS viruses, without a reasonable expectation that the tests would increase transmissibility or pathogenicity. Therefore, it is reasonable that they would have been excluded from the moratorium.”" "The University of Iowa’s Perlman told us the EcoHealth research is trying to see if these viruses can infect human cells and what about the spike protein on the virus determines that. (The spike protein is what the coronavirus uses to enter cells.) The NIH, he said, wouldn’t give money to anybody to do gain-of-function research “per se … especially in China,” and he didn’t think there was anything in the EcoHealth grant description that would be gain of function. But he said there’s a lot of nuance to this discussion." "Perlman told us that he thought Fauci’s response in the May 11 exchange was correct — that no money was given for gain-of-function research. But, he added, there’s a scientific discussion to be had on the benefits and risks of research making recombinant viruses, which involves rearranging or combining genetic material. The politicization of the issue, Perlman said, “doesn’t do anybody good.”" Basically, YOU think that the research Eco-Health funded meets the definition of "gain of function." People in the field seem to think that it does not. I would trust their opinion over yours.
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  11339.  @dzcav3  My definition of "most people" would be "most people." As in "the overwhelming majority of people purchasing a car." To go through your case examples, Renters who do have a car but do not have access to a garage with charging accessibility will need to consider their charging options. In many cases, they would be driving relatively short distances, so could just charge up once or twice a week in a relatively short amount of time. People who take long trips regularly might prefer a gas car, but this does not apply to most people. If they do take a long trip in their EV, it's generally doable in a reasonable amount of time, charging while eating a meal or stopped at a hotel for the night. It does take some more planning at the moment, but isn't an actual problem. Less frequent trip takers could also just rent a car for the short time they would need it. Poor people would save money over the long term by buying a used EV, which can cost less than $10K. The up front costs might be higher than for a gas car, but that's where government assistance can bridge the gap. Even the "high prices" of public chargers is well less than the cost at gas stations. And of course the availability of charging options will only improve over time, soon enough even apartment dwellers will have convenient access to charging, and charge times are reducing drastically, so using a public charger will take about as much time as filling a gas tank. In any case, "most people" are outside of all of those categories.
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  11342.  @I-have-a-brain_and-use-it  CO2 might be relatively weak, but there is enough of it that it causes a pretty massive outcome. I mean, this is not guess work at play here, they know how much is up there and how much effect it will have, and that adds up to "the bad stuff we're seeing right now." I haven't looked into the greenhouse effect H@O has, and you might be right that it is more, but if so, it was a factor that was in equilibrium, and has not changed significantly, so the CHANGE in outcomes is due to the CO2. It would be like if you were outside on an 70 degree day, sun is shining, and then you put on a heavy coat. Obviously the sunshine has a bigger impact on your warmth than the heavy coat, but the addition of a coat that you didn't previously have would make a massive difference to your personal temperature. And again, the raw heat generated by ALL human activity has been accounted for, it does not come remotely close to enough to account for the changes we're seeing. The sun IS that powerful. As to your discussion of "Gasses other than CO2," I think that's semantics. Those gasses are largely generated as a byproduct of the same processes that are traditional referred to as "CO2 emitters." Yes, when discussing the topic to laypeople, the media will typically keep it simple and only refer to the most basic element, but it's not like the science isn't also keeping track of all that other stuff. Methane, for example, is certainly considered a major green house gas. It is more technically accurate to say "Green House Gases" rather than "CO2," but it's also a longer term, and in practice makes little difference to the discussion. The answers are the same either way. Also, the "break even" point for an EV to be better for the environment, ALL factors considered, is around two years, for the average driver.
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  11412. I have always wanted an Easy Mode in Souls games, because I've wanted to play them, but found the original design too frustrating to enjoy. The articles in question might poorly define this debate, but I think it's definitely worth having. I have hope that Elden Ring might be better for players who want to play more casually, since you have more versatility in how you can upgrade, and do better at overcoming it. I just hope that this leveling process would not be excessively slow or boring. Just clearing the map should provide plenty. I watched a streamer I follow playing through one of the story bosses in the test, the one with the energy weapons, and he was having a hard time with it, but eventually beat it. I respect his skills and if he was struggling like that, I doubt I could complete it, but also, he was massively underleveled so he needed to strike the boss dozens of times, and I'm hoping that I would be able to just outlevel that encounter and be able to phase the boss with only one or two attacks. I think that the primary difference between what I've seen of Elden Ring and other Soulslikes is that so far, the save points seem to be more generous, putting you much closer to the fight that killed you, so "runback" is less of a hassle. This is my most serious concern, because I can handle dying a dozen times to a boss where I spawn right outside and can run right back in, but HATE situations where dying to a boss even a few times would force me to run back through a winding, thirty second or longer path. This "repeated tedium" aspect just drains any fun out of the title for me. In any case, I think that the game should always be tuned more for its current audience, the people who want this "hardcore" experience or whatever, but I also see no harm in providing alternative paths for those that would prefer it. There is no conflict there. To each their own.
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  11423.  @CNe7532294  Well, that's much less a "well known fact" and more of a "well spread misinformation." While there is certainly some energy loss in charging an EV (unless you have enough home energy generation to cover it), power plant energy production, even using oil as a fuel, is much more efficient than a car engine, and you also have to factor in the inefficiencies of transporting the gasoline to the gas stations. And this is only a factor at all if the power plant is running on fossil fuels, the more we shift toward renewable sources, the less this will be a factor. Also, far more of an EV's components can be recycled than what's put into an ICE vehicle's fuel tanks. almost all the lithium in a battery can be recycled, for example, while none of an ICE's gasoline gets recycled. The "Carbon footprint" of building an EV is higher than the carbon footprint of building an ICE car, but only by a relatively small amount, and a couple years of average driving will pay off this "carbon debt" and every mile beyond that will have a lower total carbon footprint than the ICE does. As for fire risk, yeah, lithium battiers do burn, but you know what else burns? Gasoline. It burns REALLY well, and very explosively. Most Hollywood explosions are gasoline. Lithium fires are persistent, but fairly slow and steady, meaning if you get into a crash, and it does start a fire, chances are you will be able to get out of the vehicle and get well away from it with no harm done. A gasoline car, on the other hand, will explode, likely giving you no chance to avoid it. Also, while raw lithium can combust with water, it is not a factor with finished EV batteries, and you can even put out an EV fire using pumped water. So while you raise some interesting points about EVs not being perfect, and there obviously still being room for improvement, they are still far superior to the alternative of driving an ICE vehicle under most conditions. You sure did have a laundry list of industry talking points though. . .
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  11815.  @juliemunoz2762  You want to believe that The 14th "does not provide that illegals who invade our Country and drop a baby here are automatically the parents of a US citizen," yet that is EXACTLY what those words YOU quoted MEAN. They may not have planned for the amendment to result in that, but that does not change the fact that it is the CONSEQUENCE of the 14th amendment existing, and that if that bothers you, the ONLY way to change it would be a new amendment. "That's not what we wanted to happen" has NEVER been a constitutional challenge. "The key is “subject to the jurisdiction thereof”: Consider the French ambassador and his lovely young wife stationed in Washington, DC. She gives birth to a child here. Her child was born here. But is her child “subject to the jurisdiction” of the United States? No! The child is subject to the same jurisdiction as his parents: France." The only reason why the children of diplomats are not granted birthright citizenship is because their parents have diplomatic immunity, and are therefore outside of US jurisdiction. An illegal immigrant, on the other hand, IS within US jurisdiction, otherwise it would be impossible for them to be "illegal," since people outside of US jurisdiction are INCAPABLE of committing crimes under US law. If someone was "outside of US jurisdiction," then they could murder someone without it being a crime. It's also worth noting that even among foreign diplomats, not all of them are granted diplomatic immunity, and if those employees have children in the US, their child would be a US citizen. Of course, they would likely also have dual citizenship with their parent's country. "They were not “subject to the jurisdiction of the United States” – they were subject to the jurisdiction of their tribes." Exactly my point. And illegal immigrants are not tribal members, and are therefore subject to US jurisdiction. "An illegal alien who invades our Country is in the same status as the French Ambassador’s wife. " This is completely false. Illegal immigrants are NOT granted diplomatic immunity. "The baby she drops here is “subject to the jurisdiction” of the Country she left." This is also not true, the baby would not be "subject to the jurisdiction" of any country other than the US, so long as it remained on US soil. It would only be subject to the jurisdiction of the parent's home country if it went there. "Pursuant to Art. I, Sec. 8, clause 4, US Constitution, Congress may make laws deciding how people become naturalized citizens." Yes, but also, later portions of the Constitution supersede earlier portions, so in this case, the 14th amendment supersedes Act 1 Sec 8, clause 4. Once the 14th was added, while Congress does retain the right to make laws for naturalization, they are restricted to doing so within the bounds of the 14th, and cannot do anything that would alter what the 14th says without passing a new amendment. And Professor Edward Erler is an idiot who is telling you what you wish to be true, so you believe him. This reflects poorly on you. Be a better consumer of information.
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  11847.  @adamh4594  The interests of rural areas are not somehow more important than those of city areas and therefore in need of some special protections though. People are people, the people living in rural areas count exactly as much as those in urban areas, no more, no less. And urban areas no more "vote as a monoilith" than rural areas do, everyone just votes the topics that matter to them. Also, people keep complaining about how California is a messed up state, but you know who's fault that is? Local government. It's local county and city councils setting zoning laws that have led to the housing crisis and many related issues, not state level governments where one region overrides another. There's no inherent virtue to "local governance." "Does it make any sense for the laws decided on in California, to consistently take precedent over the laws the local communities of Rhode Island want for themselves, simply because 'democracy and California has a majority of people'?" Yes. Obviously. Why wouldn't more people have a larger say in how things get done? "This very factor is just one of the reasons the electoral college is so incredibly important in America and is a direct influence over our ability to be cohesive." The electoral college hadn't been relevant to outcomes for a hundred years or more. It was only recently that one party started losing a LOT of popular votes while still clinging onto the electoral college win, and suddenly it's become a Very Big Deal. It's almost like they don't care about "fair outcomes," they only care about winning by any means necessary. "You see a direct correlation with social cohesion and social order break down." Not really, there's been a lot more social breakdown in the past than we have today, like during the civil rights movement. Typically, any time when great strides are being made for minority groups, there is a violent and angry protest from conservatives on the matter, and that is to be expected, but it will pass, and America will continue to improve. I also don't think I should point out that the previous administration is entirely to blame for these divides, not the current one. The current one has been running a very middle of the road administration, he just happens to not be the one that those on the right could be satisfied with.
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  11850.  @adamh4594  You are misunderstanding the founders. They tried the "loose states under a weak federal" government, and it failed completely, so THEN they wrote the Constitution to REPLACE that idea with a more centralized federal government. Not ALL founders agreed with that, so I'm sure you can find quotes from one or two that felt differently, but the vision they eventually AGREED on involved a strong federal government overriding the states. Also, just for the record, the word "republic" has nothing to do with "loose states," those are two very distinct concepts. A Republic is just a representative democracy, whether that involves one state, or many. I think the term you mean to say is "confederation," which is not what we currently have. "Not really. High populated areas consistently vote blue. Rural is often more conservative, but you have a far bigger mixed bag." You have both progressive and conservative people in both cities and rural areas. The majority in cities tends to be blue, and the majority in areas without cities tends to be red. Rural areas have no "high ground" in this matter, they just tend to vote the way you prefer them to vote. "And it wasn't local government that entirely messed up this state. It was state government. " If you actually believe that, then you have been misled. Look into it from better sources. Newsome is not the reason for SF's problems, their city planning boards are the reason for their problems, LOCAL level control is the reason for their problems. "One is pro life. The other is pro abortion. Do you honestly think the better situation is where one of those communities dictates how the other lives? " I think that the people living in those community have to deal with the consequences either way, so I believe in whichever leads to the outcome in which the choice is left to the individual to make. I do not feel that people who want that choice should be abandoned because they happen to live in a state where the majority chooses to deny them that option. Larger scale decision making tends to lead to the best possible outcomes for all people. "The riots of the original civil rights movement pale in comparison to the riots of 2020." Wow. They have really done a number on you, haven't they. It will blow your mind when you find out the truth. "The 90's had far more cohesive communities then what we have today." Then why was violent crime massively higher in the 90s than it is today? "And you seem to be neglecting the fact that it was conservatives (and still is) that pass civil rights legislation... " No, it was always progressives that pushed that legislation, and it was always conservatives that fought against it. That's the nature of being conservative. I think you're a bit confused because you're thinking about it as "Republican = conservative," and that's pretty true today, but wasn't always the case. The 1860s Republicans certainly weren't conservative, and a large chunk of the 1960s Democrats were very conservative. It was the progressive wings of both parties that pushed through the civil rights legislation. "And while he wasn't the boogeyman the left endlessly insists on... he is a crass, boorish man with effectively no verbal filter between his brain and mouth. " That's a distraction. People do not hate him because he is rude and personally offensive. They hate him because his POLICIES are rude and offensive. They hate him for the HARM that he caused, and insists that he plans to cause if he regains power. Don't pretend that these are trivial reasons. "He ran on being middle ground, but lets be honest, Biden has no political values other than what his party directs him... he is little more than a failing figurehead." Then why is the progressive base constantly at war with him? He takes very centrist positions on issues, it's just that the center is more to the left than you want it to be. Pretty much all of his individual policies, if polled in a vacuum, are popular with the majority of Americans, in many cases even with the majority of Republicans. It's only when you bring his name up that the conservatives boo. I do agree that the issues existed prior to Trump, but he certainly blew them up exponentially. The root cause was the founding of Faux News in the 90s, where they were telling people the stories they wanted to hear, instead of reality, and the right became more and more divorced from reality. Then a black man got elected President, and the Tea Party movement showed up, and large portions of the center and right got very interested in politics, Trump among them. And then Trump became president, and a lot of people got a lot more bold about things that maybe they'd kept to themselves before. He certainly never made anything better.
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  11896.  @firstladyshine  Sure, but that's step 2. Currently, the way it works is that it's the taxpayer's responsibility to do ALL the work, to enter ALL the data (and to figure out which data is relevant to their own taxes, like whether they are a farmer or clergy), and then once they are done, the IRS tells them if they caught them getting anything wrong. But for most taxpayers, most of that stuff is irrelevant. For most, they could just provide a starting value, "we think you made $20K this year," and you can correct that if you think they got it wrong, then you can either pick the standard deduction or add in individual deductions. They could frame it as a series of simple questions, "do you do this?" "Did you do that?" "if so, how much did you spend on it?" etc., and factor those answers into the result, rather than having this huge form of cryptic names and boxes that you mostly end up leaving empty, but need to double check with the instructions to see what that box even means. For most taxpayers, they could just start it up, click "ok" a few times, and be completely done in minutes, because all the weird exceptions would never apply to them. For others, they might have to click through a few extra questions and check boxes to cover some exceptions to their taxes, but it should all be very simple and straight forward. Only the very rare exception would need to be going through every option in the list, because they have such a complicated financial history that all sorts of things would apply. If it makes things super simple for most taxpayers, that's a good thing.
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  12002.  @vade137  Lol, "the numbers sound made up," no, they aren't "made up," they're the actual numbers recorded. The number of people who die is much higher than it would be if people were less reckless about it. If you haven't heard of mass burials then you haven't been paying any attention at all. Funeral homes and crematoriums have been overloaded lately, look it up yourself. They don't exactly track "people that get sick and get better," because that's a really complicated thing to keep track of. What they do track is numbers of people who have been newly infected and people who actual die, so if you'd like you can make a rough calculation based on that, but the point is that thousands of people are dying, and there's no reason for most of those because if they'd been vaccinated, they would have lived. Also, the case of nursing home deaths were misreported on certain Faux News stations. What they did wrong was labeling people who died in NY hospitals that had come from nursing homes as "hospital deaths" instead of "nursing home deaths," but the actual number of nursing home deaths was not higher than in other equivalent states. It certainly didn't lead to more deaths than otherwise. It wasn't "more people dead than reported," it was just "the places where people had died" being misreported, so not really relevant to anyone outside of New York. As for people who have gotten sick and survived, why "celebrate" that? I mean, it's good for them, yeah, but wouldn't it be better if they hadn't gotten sick at all because people took better care of themselves? It doesn't do anything to reduce the number of people killed by the pandemic. If we're going to throw a party every time someone doesn't die, we'd never get any work done. As for people who survive having antibodies, the research so far indicates that surviving covid gives far weaker protection than the vaccines, and it wears off much faster than even without the booster. There is no reason for businesses to consider previous infection as some sort of alternative to vaccination, it's the vaccination status that is medically significant.
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  12004.  @vade137  It really doesn't make you "think about the fiancial bonuses hospitals get for diagnosing COVID and using Ventilators" unless oyu are a bit silly and conspiratorially minded. The covid death stats are high in the US because the US has a particularly high number of stupid people, relative to other parts of the world. I mean, our adult population is only 67% vaccinated, even though the vaccines have been available for months now. A lot of people refuse to wear masks unless absolutely forced to do so, and even then whine like babies in a crib about it. Hospitals would like NOTHING more than to keep people OUT of the hospitals, the people who work there are EXHAUSTED by all of this. It's also worth keeping in mind that the US has much better testing and medical treatment than in most third world countries, so plenty of people who die there of covid aren't adequately recorded as such. They just die. Not to mention that they don't have as much urban population density or international travel as the US does, so the virus does not spread around as rapidly there. I mean, they don't have idiot biker rallies where they don't wear masks and then split up all across the country to infect those communities like we do. I really wish that we weren't more likely to die of covid than in other countries, but that would require having less stupid Americans that want to pretend that nothing is wrong and that they can just act like "business as usual" and it will all totally work out. The Doctor you cited is just not a particularly trustworthy one. He panders to an audience that doesn't want to believe that things are as bad as they actually are, and he tells them what they want to hear so that he can make money off of their ignorance. It really makes you think about why he would do such a thing, when it leads to thousands of unnecessary deaths. . .
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  12019.  @j8thgen479  Plenty of people "with immune systems" have died from this virus, Justin. While people with comorbitities are at more risk, that does not mean that those without them have none. And besides, it's not about you. There are others with those comorbitities out there, so if you can do your part to ensure that they don't get sick, then you can take pride in that. I promise you, it will feel better than the shame of knowing that all you did during this pandemic was make things worse for everyone. And I think you misunderstood the recent CDC discussion, they do not say that vaccinated people spread just as much as unvaccinated, only that they still spread some. So long as you wear your mask and socially distance, you can prevent the spread of the virus to those around you. I saw a meme that I think is perfect for this moment, it went something like "What if in a year or two they discover that masks did absolutely nothing to protect against the virus, and they were just playing us like fools for wearing them? I'd feel great, because I knew that either way, I was at least trying to protect people as best I could." Do your best. And as for the CDC and WHO "changing their stories?" That is EXACTLY what we should WANT them to do. That is how science works, it does not have the answers, it has questions. Questions are good. The CDC gave the best guidance it had AT THE TIME at the start of the pandemic. This was a new virus and there was very little data to work with. As more research came in, it might seem that a certain strategy was helpful, so they would recommend it. If even more research came in, those strategies might not have been that important, so they would remove that guidance. That's fine, it's better to do the best you have with the information available than to do nothing at all. Don't be afraid of questions, OR of answers that you don't like. Also, I just gotta lol, "nobody in this thread is a conspiracy theorist!. . . Why do we always have to say “yes master” to the government ? If you’re a useless puppet than ok," Lol.
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  12020.  @j8thgen479  I called people conspiracy theorists because they refuse to accept the answers to their questions if those answers do not line up with their conspiracy theories about "big government being sneaky." If the answer is "there is a pandemic going on and it's in everyone's interest to get vaccinated and wear masks," they would prefer to ignore that answer and continue to believe in their conspiracies. Asking a question is ONLY of value if you're prepared to listen to the answer, otherwise it's just an excuse to not behave responsibly. As for masks, you're missing the point entirely. Like I said, the point of scientific advice is to act with the best information we have, collect MORE information, and then ADAPT to that new information. Fauci did say masks don't work, EARLY in the pandemic, when we didn't KNOW what we do now. At the time he said that, masks were in extremely short supply, medical professionals could not get what they wanted because the Trump administration had failed to replenish the emergency stockpiles and were buying up available stock away from the doctors who needed them. At the time he said that, it was the best advice based on what we knew at the time, that it was not necessary for the average person to wear one. In the weeks and months that followed, more data came in, and that data showed that communities that had consistent mask wearing DID reduce community spread. The point of the mask on your face is not about making you immune to the virus, although it does provide some protection there, it is more about protecting others from the air coming out of your mouth, which might be infected or not. So then Fauci updated his guidance based on this new information, so people should be wearing masks. Then a few months back, with the data showing that vaccinated people spread the virus less than unvaccinated people, the CDC gave the guidance that fully vaccinated people did not need to wear masks, but still could if they wanted to. I believe that this was mostly driven by a desire to provide an incentive for people to get vaccinated, but too many unvaccinated people took advantage of this to say "well then I don't need to wear one either!" which is a bit like someone in a car saying "well if people on foot don't need seatbelts, then obviously I don't either!" I personally think this guidance was a bit naive on their part, but it is what it is. Then the Delta variant started hitting the US, hospitals started getting overrun, the death rate rose above 2020 levels in many red states, and the guidance changed to "ok, not enough people are getting vaccinated, so I guess we need to wear masks again." So that's where it stands today. You don't have to trust Fauci on that, you can look up the data yourself.
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  12072.  @lunaticker6842  For one thing, the Bush v Gore recount was a completely different standard. That was ONE swing state that was within a few hundred votes. For Trump to have won, it would have meant over ten thousand votes being off in several different states at the same time. Sometimes a recount is warranted, sometimes it is not. That is not hypocrisy. Besides which, the 2020 election has already seen ten times as much scrutiny as the 2000 one, and found no significant fraud or errors, so potential crisis averted. As for "Trump is not my President," you do understand that that is rhetorical, right? No Democrat said that literally, as in they did not believe he legally was the president from 2017-2020. All that meant was, they did not vote for him and did not like that he was President. Only Republicans are delusional enough to pretend that Trump actually is still President. And Jan 6th was an insurrection. They were not "invited in," they got in by breaking windows and beating police officers with Blue Lives Matter flags. Any claims you may have heard of police "inviting them in" are nonsense. DO your research, and avoid untrustworthy propaganda sites when you do so. As for parties, I don't believe that any candidate is 100% in lockstep with their party in all things, that's not the point of parties. Parties are about many individuals aligning around a shared platform. One candidate might care more about civil rights than most of his peers, another might care more about the economy than his peers, another might care about health care more than his peers, but so long as they all mostly agree on the core interests of a given party, then they agree to tend to vote together in most situations. By aligning to a party, it helps voters to know which candidates will tend to support the issues they care about. I don't agree with Democrats on every issue, and certainly not to the degree that they push the issue, and I don't always disagree with Republicans on certain topics, but the Republican party have shown themselves to be incapable of governing, so I really don't have any option but to vote for the party capable of taking them off the board, until such time as they get their act together. Then we can consider maybe voting for one of them individually.
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  12265.  @pinkerproductions7420  My point is that armed security is an extremely ineffective and wasteful way of solving the problem. There are much more effective, much less wasteful ways of achieving better goals, so why not just do that instead? Also, school shootings, sadly, not that rare, about one or two per year. What we do know is that there have been schools with armed officers present that did not have sufficiently different outcomes than without them. As for gun control methods, if the previous assault weapons ban had been in place, the father in question would have been unable to purchase the weapon used in this shooting. Most of the weapons used in the past ten years of school shootings would not have been available to the shooters. And if we went further than that and had at least Swiss style gun laws, nobody in that household would be allowed to own a firearm, on the basis of the perceived risk to the community. That is not currently legal under Georgia''s laws, but that can be solved. The root cause in all these cases is the gun, for lack of the gun, they would be far less effective, and that is the problem that is possible to solve, rather than trying to solve "human nature," something we've failed to do for thousands of years. I really wish that people would be more honest, and instead of pretending to believe that "the criminal mind" could be solved if only we tried a little harder, that they just want to have guns and genuinely do not care how many lives are lost in their name. As for the FBI, they did what they could within the bounds of the law. I would be far more worried about the idea of taking "pre-crime" actions against people who might do a crime in the future, than I ever would about removing their access to weapons. And underscores before and after a word.
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  12266.  @pinkerproductions7420  That is a lot I did refute your claims about defensive gun use. It does not work. There is no evidence that it significantly reduces the death count in these events, and the only evidence we do have is that it definitely does not prevent the deaths from happening at all. What does work? Removing the guns. So why not do that instead? As for your argument that the costs could be offset by making school budgets more efficient, that too would be wrong. If you are able to make school budgets more efficient, then that's great, but hat money should still be rolled back into improving our educational experiences, not into buying more guns and paying people to use them. I would rather be paying teachers to teach than to be soldiers. Also, claiming that other countries have "higher" school shooting rates only works if you adjust for populations to such an extent that one or two events balances out against ten to twelve in the US. That is never good statistical practice, since it leads to extreme outlier situations. If you have no option but to make such a comparison, then the correct answer is to say that there is no data at all. As for your claims about the assault weapons ban, the fact is that most recent school shooters acquired their weapons legally, or stole it from someone who did, so if legal ownership of such weapons did not exist, it would have been less likely they would be able to acquire one. Yes, criminals will seek out illegal means, but that does not mean that they will be successful. Do you believe that criminals in the UK or Japan would have any less interest in having a gun if they could? And yet their homicide rates are much lower per capita than the US, because while their criminals want to have guns, and commit no fewer crimes than in the US in which a gun could come in handy, it is much harder for even criminals to find a gun in those countries, since legal guns are not available to them. And my point in raising the Swiss was that they have much more effective gun laws than the US, and they would have allowed actions to be taken in this case which likely would have prevented the shooting entirely. Also, even if the FBI had prosecuted him for making threats, it likely would not have prevented this shooting. The punishments would have been relatively minor, given that he was himself a minor, it was a first offense, he did not have a serious record, etc. I know that there is this fantasy that "the bad guys get locked up and never cause harm again," but things have never worked that way, and never could. I should also clarify that my position does not come from not understanding your own. I understand your position as well as you do, I just further understand the many reasons why it is wrong. If you have further questions on the topic, I would be happy to answer them.
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  12297.  @urgreatestenemy  You're repeating the same talking points I debunked in that previous thread. And so again, I was also factoring in the other forms of pollution. Were you? Have you looked into the oil pollution Nigeria has? Pumping, refining, shipping, and more importantly burning gasoline causes FAR more pollution to the globe as a whole, and much more than that directly to the US, than ANY aspect of EVs. n EV has a larger carbon footprint coming off the lot than a gas car, but the gas car's footprint keeps growing over time, and after less than two years, the EV's overall footprint will be smaller. And again, a lot of those carbon costs come from inefficient manufacturing processes, so over time those carbon costs will get lower still. Also, there is NO EV where you "have to replace the batteries every 5 or 6 years." What idiot told you that? EV batteries typically have a 10 year _warranty," and they are rated to last much longer than that. They don't just "die" at some point, they instead just lose a bit of efficiency over time, so if you get a 200 mile range EV, then after 10 years it might only have a range of 180-190, but still plenty for most drivers. If you want to change out the battery you can, but you could keep driving it long past that if you don't need the absolute max range. And if you do trade out batteries, you can pay off the carbon footprint of the new one in a year or so of driving, and it can be fully recycled, with all that lithium going into making a fresh battery. I'm afraid that you listed a bunch of fossil fuel industry misinformation that someone must have fed you. Look into the topic yourself, stay away from their propaganda. Don't be their slave.
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  12332.  @Dutchbrother07  So you would say that the US is basically exactly like Mexico? That we should count ourselves lucky if any stat is better in America than it is in Mexico? It's not "racist" to be honest about the realities of the world, and most of the other countries in the Western hemisphere do have far less developed economies and far less stable governments, in many cases due to deliberate action by the US. However they got that way, it still leaves them poor examples to compare to the US in terms of overall crime and violence. I know that you know this full well, but you prefer to pretend otherwise, because you can't defend the fact that guns have caused higher murder rates in the US than in Europe. And yes, physical beatings cause more deaths than rifles, but not more than guns in general. You can't eliminate ALL murders, but you can greatly REDUCE them, and isn't that worth doing? Some people will still find a way, but generally those with murderous intent will be less successful. When people go on a rampage with a gun, there are often death tallies in the double digits. When they go on a rampage with a knife, there are often injuries, but far fewer fatalities. As to your whole bit about "tyranny," it's nonsense. Dozens of countries around the world have no more tyranny than the US, without needing any guns to secure that freedom. And if it came down to it, America's civilian gun owners could do nothing to stop the military, and if we're being honest with ourselves, we both know that the gun owners would more likely side with the tyrants than against them.
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  12413.  @AlbatrossRevenue  But my point is that a poorly moderated debate leans toward the better public speaker, not toward the facts. The one who makes the most confident presentation would win out over the one who was more ACCURATE. I have zero doubt that Hotez has more accurate facts on his side than RFK Jr., but I have strong doubts as to whether he could be more convincing in his arguments to a Joe Rogan audience. So then what would be the point in having the debate? RFK would not present "cogent rebuttals using data," there is no data to support his side, he would just craft argument that confirm the biases of the audience, which has long been determined to be more effective than "facts" when dealing with lay-people. As for my point, you got it half right. Yes, for one thing, I do not believe that a useful scientific debate can take place on JRE, nor that his audience is at all interested in one. They do not want to learn facts, they want to hear their biases get confirmed for them, for those who disagree with them to get "owned," and that will be the inevitable outcome, regardless of "facts." But also, I stand by the point that the sort of debate we are talking about here, a live debate on a radio show, has NO value in science. Here is a debate format I would like to see though: Both sides would have a team of experts, so that they would have a wider spread of knowledge. Questions and answers would be submitted in writing, and read out by an intelligent neutral moderator, to remove any charismatic bias of the speaker. When the turn passes from one to the other, there is a break of up to several hours, during which they can research an accurate response, with access to any information they might need to do so. But you're right, your argument here is absurd. Which, again, is why I have little faith that a JRE debate could hold any value. It isn't about seeking the truth, it's about engaging in absurdity.
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  12427.  Christopher L  But the thing is, laypeople are in no position to judge the quality of highly complex scientific evidence. An article can sound very credible, use a lot of fancy words, present an argument that makes a lot of sense to someone that has no idea what any of these words mean or how they actually work, but still not actually be terribly compelling when you do understand the topic at hand. The article in question is one position, and the writer of the article has a checkered past with the scientific community, but it isn't necessarily more credible than the alternate position that most of the expert seem to believe. I would agree with you that one should be skeptical of those who have something on the line, and IF Fauci were the ONLY one holding these viewpoints, the sure, definitely sus, but it's actually the view held by a pretty large majority of scientists, most of whom have zero skin in this game. The only ones who seem to be contrarian on this are the ones who do have something to gain by proving wrongdoing, either because they have a grudge against Fauci, a grudge against China, a grudge against "expertism," etc. Maybe look at "who stands to gain" on both sides of this. Fauci really doesn't have much to gain here. It's pretty cut and dry that whether you agree with him or not on the nature of "gain of function," he did not lie about this, because he is accurately reporting the NIH findings. If you could somehow find evidence that the NIH made a mistake here, that would be on them, not on Fauci. And if it turned out to be the case that the Wuhan lab had somehow created covid, that still wouldn't be on Fauci, since it would have been a program he'd had no knowledge of. So why would Fauci lie about it? As for Luc Montagnier, his allegations were proven to be incorrect. That doesn't completely rule out the possibility that it was man-altered, but even if it was, it was definitively different than he believed it to have worked. Again, you can find "a scientist" or "a group of scientists" to support ANY crackpot theory. You can find scientists that believe the Earth is flat and aliens built the Pyramids. A white lab coat alone is not good enough, but if there is a consensus across the organizations that tend to study things like this, it tends to be correct more often than not.
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  12478.  @gorillazilla4534  No, they testified to vague suspicions that chain of custody might have been at issue. Republicans tend to do that a lot, making hearsay argument about how they saw someone who might have been "up to no good," without any evidence whatsoever that they actually did anything illegal, and acting as if it's proof of anything. There was no actual evidence, including testimony, that chain of custody had been broken, and sworn testimony by the election officials that it had not been. Also, there were no problems with the paper strips in the voting machines, at least none that impacted the outcome. The issues you discussed did not prevent votes being cast, it only prevented them being read in at the polling place. They were securely stored though and counted later, essentially the same process as drop boxes. There is no evidence that anyone who attempted to cast a ballot was unable to do so, or that their vote was not counted. And of course I'm fine with the candidate running for office overseeing the elections, since that happens in MOST elections involving the re-election of a State's Attorney or whatever the equivalent role it. So long as they can be trusted to do their job professionally, as in this case, there's no reason for concern. The only concern would be if the person in question was an election-denier conspiracy theorist, as were many Republican candidates in this election cycle. Hey, look, you just say what Faux News tells you to think, right down to the "independent thinker" bit. You aren't brainwashed, you're just an "independent thinker," who just happens to think the same as every other Faux News drone. It's like the new "goth kids."
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  12589.  @redonk1740  It's important to keep in mind that in America, many gun owners own multiple guns, and only one is needed to cause an incident. Raising the total number of guns in circulation and comparing that to the number of incidents is pointless, what matters is that the number of incidents is much higher in the US than in equivalent countries where they have far fewer guns. The goal with any gun control is not to have criminals "be nice" and turn in their guns. The point of it is to cut off their supply of guns. If they cannot purchase them legally, and cannot steal them from legal gun owners, then the supply of guns in the criminal markets would drop massively. We know this for a fact, given that it's already occurred in many countries. And your "low estimate" of defensive gun use is only a "low estimate" by someone intending to produce high estimates. It's like asking a football coach what his "low estimate" of his team's victory will be. The Gun Violence Archive counts actual cases of defensive gun use, and they tend to be more in the 1,500 to 2,000 per year range. And owning a gun increases your chances of being a victim, since you're less likely to take more safe methods like avoidance, and because the same laws that allow you to own a gun allow the criminals to acquire one. Also, comparing guns to cars is another weak argument, since cars provide much more value to society than guns do. Look, there is a very simple statistic we can use here, results. If guns make Americans safer, then the US overall violent crime rates and murder rates would be the lowest in the world. Out massive amount of guns would completely squash any attempt by criminals to do crime. Is that the result? No. Instead, our violent crime is, at best, equal to other countries, no safer due to gun ownership, and our homicide rates are 6 times more or higher, the worst in the developed world. Solve that problem, and maybe having guns will be ok, but since guns clearly have not solved that problem, they are clearly not the solution.
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  12608.  @foreignidea5696  There is no shame in you observing your own health risks. The shame is in you doing it poorly and putting those around you at risk from your own inadequacies. And yes, the overcrowded hospitals are because they are having to treat hundreds more patients than they were ever designed to treat. This is a problem. You're also not accurately describing how covid deaths are handled, you are not listed as a "covid death" if covid was not the primary cause of death. Yes, there might be other things wrong with you, but those things would not have killed you if you had not had covid. This is why 2020 had 400,000+ more dead people than they had predicted based on "normal causes." And yes, there are definitely things that, if you get them, are deadlier than covid. The difference there is that these diseases are either less contagious, or harder to treat. Yes, cancer is a big killer, but you cannot spread (most) cancer person to person, certainly not as easy as covid, and there are not safe vaccines for cancer. If there were a cancer vaccine, you'd be damned certain I'd take it. Natural immunity is a thing, but even if you get sick with covid, the natural immunity you get from that is not as effective as the vaccines, it too wears off over time, and that's if you survive the initial infection, which is far from guaranteed. The vaccine, on the other hand, has an almost certain survival rate, so it is the MUCH safer options. Communities that have attempted "natural immunity" strategies like Brazil or Sweden have been devastated as a result. And again, you choosing to die is certainly your own business, except that this is a societal issue, so you choosing to die might also result in taking the lives of those around you, who might then take the lives of those around them, and it will add to our overcrowded hospitals, add to our health care bills, and potentially lead to more mutations, you you choosing to die IS causing harm to others.
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  12610.  @MrJerry8159  I am making no assumptions. You have expressed that you have arrived at a certain conclusion that is incorrect. There are many ways that you could have arrived at that conclusion, some simpler than others, but the fact remains that the conclusion you arrived at is an incorrect one. There are not "thousands of doctors sounding the alarm and being silenced." Whoever told you that was lying to you. What doctors are "sounding the alarm" are either quacks who genuinely believe in voodoo science, or they are hucksters attempting to get attention off of counter-culture "medicine" practices. In either case, there is no benefit to paying them an ounce of attention. You have "read and seen" a lot of nonsense being put out by people who are either ignorant of reality or are deliberately misleading for various reasons. No accurate source would validate your position on these topics. FIND BETTER SOURCES OF INFORMATION. The real "sheep" in this one are the ones who are told to do something they don't want to do by those in authority, told to stay inside, told to wear a mask, told to take a vaccine, and they say "well I don't want to do that, there must be some other way," so they poke around on the Internet until they find someone, anyone who will tell them "you're right, the way they are telling you to do it is not the right way, you should do this instead!" and they just buy that hook, line and sinker, because it's exactly what they wish were true. Reality is rarely what you want it to be, that doesn't mean you can just substitute it with any alternate reality that you choose. Also, Youtube thumbs are a REALLY dumb way to gauge the accuracy of medical information. If you take nothing more away from this conversation, let that be the main one. That and the FIND BETTER SOURCES OF INFORMATION.
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  12611.  @MrJerry8159  But I really have looked at the CDC with an open mind, and my open mind tells me that they are far more trustworthy than some random crackpot I found on the Internet. I am a contrarian at heart, I question EVERYTHING, I take nothing at face value or without question. I question everything that I hear and I look into anything that might be fishy and determine the most likely truth involved. When I have come to the result that all the credible sources say one thing, and all the sources that disagree are fringe lunatics and scam artists, then that is because all the credible sources say one thing, and all the sources that disagree are fringe lunatics and scam artists, not because I haven't done my due diligence. It's easy to just accept that the thing you WISH were true were the truth, and to say "see, I found someone on the Internet who agrees with me that I should be doing exactly what I want to be doing!" But that isn't the truth. Someone telling you what you want to hear should be the LEAST trustworthy answer you get. The doctors you follow are not "brave," they are pandering. They are cowardly. They are saying what a certain subset of the population WANT to hear, because they have no value otherwise. If they are doctors at all (which in many cases they are not), they are making a lot more money by peddling nonsense than they ever would by actually treating patients ethically or doing credible research. The only news sources that support their efforts are fringe "Faux News," sources that are paid for by oil tycoons, The Russian government, or Chinese cults. You have decided to not trust "the mainstream," and therefore open your arms wide to anyone who will tell you the opposite of what "the mainstream" has to say. That is not wisdom, that's ignorance. Sometimes the "mainstream" gets things wrong, that doesn't mean that the other side is right. As for "prohibiting free speech," there are a lot of stupid people out there, and a lot of people are being misinformed. They have had to put out alerts to stop people form taking horse dewormers in potentially lethal doses, because various "alternative news outlets" have been telling people that this horse dewormer will cure them. I WISH so badly that we lived in a world where more people could tell the difference between the truth and a lie, but we do not, so when people are trying to spread information that is causing literal deaths, I do think that it causes more good than harm to reduce their reach as best we're able to do so. I really hope you can escape the cult you're in before it's too late. Think for yourself.
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  12613.  @MrJerry8159  McCllough is currently being sued for misrepresenting himself as a Baylor employee, and is a cardiologist, not an epidemiologist or immunologist. He has zero knowledge relevant to covid, the vaccines, or other treatments. His specific claims have been widely debunked. Have you looked into him? You seem to have a lot of misinformation in there. Let's see. Yeadon never worked at Pfizer on infectious diseases and hasn't worked for them in over a decade. He has no inside knowledge or medical expertise that is at all relevant to these vaccines. Based on his more recent antics, he seems to have gone well off the deep end into nonsense-land. That happens to people sometimes, and it is sad. Malone did not invent MRNA tech, he just claims that he did for the attention. There are dozens, if not hundreds of scientists who have built up mRNA research over the years, and Malone is considered on the fringe of that field. The fact that most of the REST of them completely disagree with his assertions should be more compelling to you than the fact that he is going against them. Karen Kingston's story has also been thoroughly investigated and debunked. None of what she claimed about the vaccine was accurate, but she was never a scientist in the first place (and she left the company DECADES before they even started on this research), so she clearly misunderstood what she was looking at. This is what I mean, confirmation bias. You pick the sources of information that agree with what you want to believe, rather than listening to the 10, 100, 1000, 100,000 equally or superiority qualified people saying the exact opposite. Why do you do that? Why do you believe the larger group of voices is less credible than the fringe elements? They are not "people showing documentation and evidence," they are people waving around papers at a TV camera and claiming that it is documentation and evidence. Well anyone can do that, I can wave a sheet of papers around and claim that it's evidence of aliens or whatever, that does not make it actually evidence. The fact that someone like you seems to buy into their nonsense only highlights the need to make clear that this stuff is misinformation. Do better fact checking before spreading these views to others. It only takes a few minutes to learn ANY of this stuff.
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  12671.  @tersymatto  Trump said a lot of nice things to American workers, but did practically nothing to actually benefit them. Anything that happened while he was in office that benefited American workers were just the natural results of the economy in motion. Trump did NOTHING to lower the cost of gas, except maybe approving the murder of a US resident by a Saudi prince, but either way, that would have been a temporary price decrease and has nothing to do with current pricing. Again, I'm not sure why I need to repeat this, US gas prices have nothing to do with who is president at the time, Presidents do not set the gas prices. This is not Soviet Russia, we have a free market economy. There are a few things that Presidents can do to temporarily shift gas prices, but it's irresponsible to do it "just because," because there is a cost to doing so. Presidents should only directly mess with gas prices when there is a genuine crisis, like a pipeline blows and we'd be looking at $6 a gallon otherwise or something. Trump did not secure our borders, and border migrants have nothing to do with covid. Again, your chances of getting infected by someone from Florida are MUCH higher than of your being infected by someone from Mexico. The vrirus is already inside the house. And Biden did NOTHING that would have changed the price of milk in your house. Again, if the price of milk in your house is higher than you would like it to be, you have Trump to thank for that, because we're still steering our way out of the messes he caused. As for "Obama built the cages," no. At least not in any way that matters. Obama did build some detention facilities that children ended up in, yes, but that is not what people were critical of Trump for. If children come across the border, you have to put them somewhere, and if a lot more than you have space for come across, then sometimes those facilities will not be the highest quality. Nobody is blaming Trump for that. At first. The problem with Trump was his policy of separating families, taking children away from their parents, even if the parents had committed no crimes other than crossing the border, and often without any documentation to allow the families to be reunited. Then Trump would keep these families in these facilities for months, and even years. Obama never did that, and neither is Biden. Under both of them, separations only occurred if the parents were facing serious criminal charges, and children were moved to higher quality facilities or foster homes within weeks. Your argument would be like if you had a 6ft high pile of garbage in your yard, and someone complained, and you go ". . . yeah. . . well. . . I see a soda can over in yours, so who are you to judge?" Here's a good video on Trump vs. Biden's China policies, judge for yourself. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxakBsMHvw4
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  12672.  @tersymatto  If the news you've been watching has told you that "Anyone who was a democrat is now moving towards being a republican," then what you have been watching is fake news. Do not watch news that would tell you that. The reality of the situation is that since Biden has taken office, some members of the extreme progressive caucus have been annoyed at Biden for being too moderate, but that obviously isn't pushing them any closer to Republicans, the moderate Democrats and independents love Biden, giving him one of the highest approval ratings in recent memory for a President at this point in his term, and moderate Republicans and right-leaning independents have been shifting toward the Democrats, because the insurrection attempt, elevation of Q Anon supporters within the party, and continued efforts by Republicans to undermine the fundamental principles of democracy have turned them off the party. The only people left for the GOP are the radicalized lunatics. "And yes, Trump did lower the price of gas by creating jobs with the key pipeline. " Nope. The Key Pipeline was not in operation, and wouldn't have been for years. It had ZERO impact on the gas prices at any point in Trump's term, and would not have had any impact until 2023 or so. No moves relative to the Key pipeline impacted current gas prices in any way. Gas prices went up and down because DEMAND for gas shifted as people reacted to covid and the conditions it caused, as well as various other unrelated situations, like the Suez Canal blockage. That is how gas prices work. And as for "jobs," the pipeline would have led to a few thousand temporary oil jobs, an absolute drop in the ocean when it comes to "American jobs." Ten times more jobs than that are created in ANY given month. If you had friends working on that pipeline, then it may have had a significant impact on your circle of friends, but that is not the case for 99.999% of Americans, and I assure you that actions that Trump took cost jobs for far more Americans across the country, and that actions Biden is taking with his infrastructure program will create ten times as many jobs, if not more than that, and in constructing things that are good for America.
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  12674.  @tersymatto  Again, you "living a much easier life" is not representative of all America. A lot of Americans had it harder than you and your friends supposedly did, sorry to say. And several things that Trump did were "good" in the short term, but "bad" in the long term, like taking steps that juiced the short term economy (like maintaining low interest rates past where it was wise to do so), but in an unsustainable way. It would be like if your friend took out a massive credit card loan and was buying you all fancy food and trips and stuff, you'd think "hey, this is great!" but then when it came time to pay off those loans, things would get much, much worse. Biden is investing in the future, Trump only doubled down on the present. Again, NONE of the "troubles" you've pointed out are a consequence of anything Biden has actually DONE. It's like you are blaming him for it raining outside while he was President. I feel the need to repeat in the hopes that it sinks in, Presidents are not wizards. They do not create the reality of everything that happens while they are in office, so just because good things happen to you while one guy is President and bad things happen to you while another guy is President, does not mean that it has anything to do with that President. Bad things will happen and good things will happen, all that is relevant to a President is what their actions have caused. I get that nothing will change your mind, but that's really a "you," problem. Facts don't care about your feelings, and the fact is that America is better off today than it was under Trump, it will be even more improved by the end of Biden's term in office, and most Americans are pleased with Biden's progress, whether you are one of them or not. All your claims of "disliking" Trump are irrelevant so long as you pointlessly cheerlead for the guy.
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  12681.  @tersymatto  Do you acknowledge the point I made that the conditions that exist right this minute are not due to the policies that Joe Biden implemented, because ANY act a President takes can take months, or even years to filter into the wider economy? Like you have mentioned gas prices on numerous occasions, even AFTER I have pointed out to you that a President does not control gas prices, and that the gas prices would be identical today under Trump as they are under Biden. If you refuse to accept these facts, then further discussion is pointless, because you are insisting on living in an imaginary world, where Presidents can wave a magic wand to do anything they like, and therefore anything that exists during their presidency is because "they did it." As for "most people feel worse off?" Where are your statistics on that? Most people felt worse off when Joe Biden took office than they did a year earlier (while Trump was in office). Biden's approval rating is over 50% (higher than Trump's ever was), so most people feel Biden is doing a good job, and it has barely moved since he took office, when typically it falls (Trump's fell by 10%), so he's doing better than most at convincing Americans that he's been doing a good job. By all standard tracking metrics, the US is doing better today than it was six months ago, for whatever that might be worth. Now maybe you feel worse off, maybe most of the people within earshot of you are too, but this is a country of 300 million people, "people you know" is not a valid sample group. Again, I wish nothing but success for you and the people in your social circle, but the success of the country cannot be measured on your personal success or not.
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  12682.  @tersymatto  We've been over the Keystone Pipeline. Yes. He cancelled it. Yes, that is a good thing overall. We don't need that foreign oil. No, that has NOTHING to do with the gas prices at the pump today, because the Keystone Pipeline wasn't pumping oil and wasn't going to be pumping oil for years to come, so if it ever had any impact at the pump it would be years down the line. The gas we had in our pumps before Biden was elected didn't come from Keystone, and the gas we had at the pumps after Biden didn't come from Keystone, and even if gas eventually did come from Keystone, it wouldn't go to US customers, it was going from Canada to foreign buyers, we were just the highway for it. Again, gas prices at the pump today have more to do with increased demand due to more people out and about than this time last year, combined with the standard fluctuations of oil prices due to all sorts of factors around the world. If you had friends that were involved in the pipeline, then they might need to find other options, but they should not have trouble doing so, and the Keystone jobs were always temp work anyway. There are good ways and bad ways to spend money, the Keystone Pipeline was a bad way. As for "can I prove people aren't worse off?" I'm not exactly sure how anyone could prove such a thing, but like I said last time, Biden's approval rating hasn't dropped significantly and is over 50%, so at least 50% of Americans think they are doing ok right now. The general economic metrics, the things economists and sociologists use to measure trends all seem to be in the positive, so the evidence is that people are generally doing ok. Can you prove that things are terrible, beyond "I think things are terrible and my friends do too?"
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  12683.  @tersymatto  Well, it's a mixed bag really. People were getting out more, for a few months at least, but you're right that the number of unvaccinated idiots out there has sent people back under cover. Still, overall, there are far more people out and about, even in "cautious" areas, in August 2021 than in August 2020. I mean, my parents never left their home from last April through early this year, outside of medical emergencies, but since getting vaccinated, they at least get out and meet friends or go shopping at about the pace they did pre-pandemic, they just might be a bit more careful about it. Now that's just an anecdote and not necessarily representative, but it does seem to be the case overall, since movie theaters are at least open and seeing better numbers than they did through most of 2020, just as a broad reference. The US has always had a mix of domestic and foreign oil. US oil production went up during Obama's presidency, and hasn't gone down under Biden, so that's not relevant here. Even oil produced domestically is not handed for free to US gas pumps, it is a business, so if a US oil producer can make more money shipping their oil to some other country than to sell it to Americans, then they will do that. The price of oil at US gas pumps is just a factor of the overall global oil economy. You should look into it, because there are great videos out there on how the oil supply works. Typically, the President has zero influence on gas prices. The only two cases in which a President can influence gas prices is if A: he opens the national oil reserve, which can drive down prices in the short term, but this is bad because then it means we will have no reserve if there is a true crisis, so it should only be used in a true emergency, not just "I'd rather not pay $3 a gallon." and B: he can cut deals with major oil producing nations that they would up their production, which drives down costs, but this is bad for those countries because it's basically wasting their money, so they would require some pretty hefty "payments" from the US, like letting them get away with murdering US residents or something. Typically it's just not worth it. In any case, that also has nothing to do with current gas prices. Again, I have given you the reasons why the gas prices are not as good today as they were a year ago, you just do not want to hear it because you would rather be able to blame Biden for it.
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  12950. @M S It is not remotely shocking that there was not a single animal found in the wild with covid. It is a NOVEL virus strain, if it were common enough that you could just stumble onto it, then it would have been infecting humans years ago. The wet market theory is based on the idea that similar viruses commonly circulate among some animals, and that one of these animals came into contact with other animals that they would not encounter in the wild, but would encounter in the chaotic conditions of a wet market or a feeder facility to one. Then animal A infected animal B, and in animal B's immune system the virus was able to mutate into something that was infectious to humans. If this were the case, then there would not be some massive population of infected animals in the wild to find, and even if there were, they would be who knows where, thousands of miles from the market. The actually infected animals would likely have been sold and eaten months before covid became publicly known to be a problem, and in the meantime, the infection rates would be slowly increasing among humans in the area. Anyone expecting to find some population of covid-19 bats somewhere, and declaring victory that we haven't, is just missing the point entirely. As for "Chinese scientists speaking out?" There's a lot of fluff to that idea. I've seen several cases of right-wing news outlets picking up stories on "this major Chinese figures is speaking out," or "this major Chinese figure disappeared!" and it's a big news story for days or weeks among the conspiracy theory crowd, but then they just turn up again elsewhere, because they don't have an Instagram they are logging into every day and weeks do normally go by in which they are not visible to the public. And there has also been at least one Chinese scientist that has led weight to the conspiracy theories, but who is being paid by a rich right-wing guy, so her motivations are a bit suspect. There does not yet seem to be anything credible from that line of discussion yet.
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  13034. Just in case anyone's heard any insane ramblings lately, a handful of USPS workers were charged with failing to deliver mail, which included something around 100 total ballots, out of tens of millions cast in 2020. Obviously this made no difference in the outcome. Elections results "swung in the middle of the night" in a lot of cases because some states prevented officials from counting mail-in ballots before election day, so they had to wait until the polls closed, and that process took longer than getting in the same-day votes. When they did this, they were not sending the media a running rally of each vote cast, they would count up the ballots they had until they had finished going through their entire pile, and then send those results off to the media, often right before going home for the night, so yeah, the results would swing wildly when that happened, as anyone would expect to happen. No, Detroit did not have 300% voter turnout, they had 50% voter turnout. Trump won Florida and Ohio, but they have been trending redder for years now. There is nothing unexpected about that. They were once "battleground states" but have since shifted into "leaning red" states, just as states like Virginia and Georgia are shifting more into "leaning blue" states. It happens. There is nothing unexpected about this. Trump did get a significant amount of votes, but Biden got more votes, and the person with more votes is the winner. There is nothing unexpected about that, although I guess you could be forgiven, since Trump also got less votes than Hillary Clinton, but still won that one. And plenty of Republicans did switch to Biden, whether you know them or not. We call those people "patriots," putting country before party. Election workers did not "scan in ballots multiple times," but even if they had, it would not have mattered, since those results were recounted multiple times, and if there had been incidents of faulty counting, it would have been discovered. Instead, for all the recounts, there have been no sizable discrepancies, and in some cases Biden actually picked up a few hundred votes in the recounts. Biden did win, and there are no significant discrepancies. The only people who believe that there were any significant flaws in the 2020 election are people who get their news from inaccurate sources.
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  13110.  @thebreakdown3793  No, gvreen energy had nothing to do with Texas's problems. Green Energy was only a tiny fraction of Texas's power grid, and they had more than enough peak fossil fuel capacity to keep things running without it. The issue in Texas was that their natural gas lines froze over because weak regulations meant that they didn't have to meet the sort of cold weather standards that other states do. Of course, blizzards like that will get more and more common as climate change continues, so they'd better get in shape fast. Not to mention that Texas's green energy products only failed because it too was poorly managed. If they can keep windmills running in Antarctica, they can keep them running in Texas during a snowstorm. As for smog, smog is only a symptom of extreme local pollution, but that's not th major problem. The major problem is greenhouse gases, which are largely invisible, but produce terrible weather impacts. If we continue on the pace we're at now, we can expect way more extreme weather over the next century, with highs way above 100, more deep freeze cold snaps, more storms and hurricanes, more droughts, basically most places will get a LOT worse to live in. The biggest issue is that it's a self-fueling cycle past a certain point. It's like we're coasting a car down a hill, but the longer we weight to put on the brakes the harder it will get to come to a stop. What we don't do today will take twice as much money and effort to fix tomorrow. Just as an example, there is tons of methane trapped in the arctic tundra, and as that ice melts, the methane goes up into the air, where it just makes things hotter, releasing more methane, and so on. There are a lot of different impacts like that.
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  13249.  @BreadPickles  Yes, supply and demand is what led to the current balance of drivability and walkability. And I'm not talking about utility costs, I'm talking about business costs. There are two types of "walkable" areas, there are high quality walkable areas that are clean, have access to a ton of food and shopping options, high speed and convenient public transit, etc. Then there are low quality walkable areas, where you have little option but to walk places, but there are relatively few good food or shopping options, dingy conditions, and minimal public transit. The latter is easy to achieve, but the former requires a high-income local population, because you are losing long distance traffic in exchange for high quality close in traffic. If you do not have a critical mass of high quality local traffic, then you cannot turn a profit, local businesses go under, and you end up with a food desert area. IF you try to build a high quality walkable area, then the cost of living will automatically rise to meet that needed amount. It's impossible to "increase supply" your way out of that problem, because if you ever did build sufficient supply of high density housing to overcome that curve, the result would be a short term period of lower housing costs, but then the least efficient of those neighborhoods would start to die off due to lack of revenues, and become low quality neighborhoods. Highway infrastructure may be expensive, but it also allows not only for the transit of the goods that even dense urban areas rely on, but also it allows customers to reach thousands of businesses spread across a hundred mile range or more. It costs more, but provides more in return.
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  13250.  @BreadPickles  Europe built their communities differently than in the US. You could rebuild the US to be more like Europe, but it would cost more than it took to grow Europe into that organically over the last century, and the public would not AGREE with you that this is what they want. Supply and demand plays an obvious role in housing prices, but as I said, it it not a system that you can abuse to get the outcomes you want with no downsides. If you build more supply than there is demand for it, then that would drive prices down, but at the cost of unsold units, and therefore commercial failure for the people building it. When you build housing to match demand, then the cost of highly walkable areas will always be more expensive per square foot than lower density options, so there will always be that trade-off. This exists in Europe just as it does in the US. Your argument about small businesses is entirely wrong. Small businesses fail because bigger businesses can outcompete them on economies of scale. Since the bigger business can stock more items and sell more items, they can charge less per item and still turn a profit. It is impossible for small businesses to keep up with this without someone putting a thumb on the scales in their favor. People aren't more likely to spend more in a walkable area, because while they might not visit as many stores, they are more likely to spend more in the stories they DO visit than in a walkable area, because they are more likely to pick things up from several departments of a large store than they are to enter several different smaller stores. The infrastructure costs issue is a real one, but it's one that the public has decided they are fine with. They would prefer the current model, and the associated costs, over a more concentrated model. Higher density communities would be more efficient, but efficiency isn't everything. I'm glad you're engaging with people that have opinions different from your own. These discussions are important to have and we aren't having enough of them. I just think we should build our society that has something for everyone, and that does include people who want to live in high density, walkable areas. But many don't. And we obviously can't build walkable, high density areas outside of the downtowns of our biggest cities, because then those areas would become "downtowns of our biggest cities."
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  13259. @ Bikes can be faster for some short trips, but for example it takes me five minutes to drive to the store from my house, including traffic lights, but it would take me over half an hour by bike, without air conditioning, and with far less cargo capacity, so I'd need to make more trips. But we are talking "Car-centric design" here, if a place is car centric, then traveling it by car tends to be much faster on anything more than a very short trip. If the infrastructure is intentionally inefficient for cars, then that's more the fault of the infrastructure than the car. The more people prefer to move by car, the more cars will be on the road, so the more adapted the environment needs to be for those drivers. It makes no sense to make life inconvenient for people. And yes, you list a bunch of potential negatives to cars, I'm not arguing those don't exist, I'm saying that people WEIGHT those pros and cons, and more of them PREFER the balance of car ownership over the alternatives. You don't have to agree with them, you just have to accept their right to not agree with you. And yes, a lot of those are the benefits of suburbs, but suburbs cannot function without cars. I live near a pretty walkable suburban area, one in which at least some of the community can reach a lot of food options on foot, and that's all well and good, but I doubt anyone in that community lacks cars, because they likely have jobs that require a car to reach, and want access to the many stores that are outside that community. Suburbs are inherently too spread out to be completely self-sufficient as a walkable unit, they need to have the flexibility that cars provide. And no, suburbs did not predate cars. Unless you mean those built around train lines, which did exist, but tend to have ceased being suburbs by now, because the city grew up around them. It would be inefficient to run a rail line out to every suburban development these days. That time has passed.
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  13261.  @BreadPickles  To your first paragraph, the things you mention as "downsides" are things that are necessary to have a large numbers of cars. I think every driver would agree that everything would be better if they were the ONLY driver on the road, with no other drivers taking up space, but that's an unreasonable expectation. If everyone who wants to drive is able to, then the infrastructure has to take them all into account, and if you build roads in a way that supports only 50 cars per minute, when 100 cars want to pass through there each minute, then ALL of those cars will end up having a bad time of it. This is far from impossible, and MOST road systems handle this just fine. The worst problems out there come from road networks that were originally designed 50+ years ago, around completely different traffic conditions and with far less understanding of traffic management, and have since been jerry-rigged as best they can, but are still far from the most efficient designs possible. The same is true of many rail networks, of course. Also, the 1/3 of Americans that prefer to not drive are already not driving. They would not be "removed from the road" they were never there in the first place. The amount of people who currently drive but would prefer not to would barely be a statistical blip. That isn't to say that you can't convert some people from driving to other methods of transportation, but you don't achieve that by making driving intentionally more annoying, you do it by providing legitimate alternatives, like building out rail networks. If people can get on a train from near their house and skip a two hour commute, they might. If you add intentional annoyances to expand their two hour commute to a three hour one, then they will just be annoyed any time the topic of "walkability" comes up, and vote accordingly. And yes, if you are building a suburb, you can build them to be both walkable and car accessible. I mentioned the one near me that I think does a good job at this. But you can't make it too unfriendly to cars, because if all the workers and school buses set out in the morning, you can't have a three hour back-up because you're trying to funnel things through narrow, winding lanes. You need to design the traffic flows around the peak traffic requirements of the area. Buses and trams can sometimes work, but often run inconvenient schedules for most people to work around, and/or are massive cost to the community. You talked about suburbs not being able to pay their own way as it is, if they had to also fund convenient bus routes that would blow out any chance of sustainability. And if you are genuinely making the argument that people should have options, then I have some excellent news for you. You, yes you, currently have those options. There are already communities that meet your needs, out there, in America, as we speak. All you need to do is move to one. The more people move into them, the more that will get built.
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  13262.  @BreadPickles  Well again, quality walkability is necessarily expensive, It's a tripod, "walkability, quality, affordability, pick two." If you're asking to have great walkability AND have it be cheap, then sorry, that's out of anyone's control. It'd be like drivers complaining that they don't want to drive, because they'd prefer a chauffeur, but it's too expensive. Drivers already pay the costs of their driving in terms of gas taxes, home taxes, and income taxes. You could argue that some of that cost is carried by people who do not themselves drive, but the same is true of pretty much any tax or government program, it's just inefficient to try and calculate every person's exact "fair burden" down to the penny. By and large, the costs and benefits of car ownership are distributed more fair than most programs. Comparing Amsterdam to most US cities is silly, and demeans us all. European cities are fundamentally different in their overall design than most US cities, as they were built up on centuries of history. It would be possible to rebuild American cities to be more like their European counterparts, but would cost a LOT more money to do so (making the resulting housing even less affordable), and it needs to be done by expanding rail options first, not by making car options worse as a first step. As to your point about lanes, it is true that simply adding lanes is not always a solution, although it is often a solution in many cases. Once you reach a certain number of lanes, you do get diminishing returns from adding more, but the actual solution there is to build entire alternate routes to reduce traffic on that first route, and also to increase the efficiency of offramps to reduce choke points. If you try to funnel too much traffic into a single off ramp, it will cause congestion no matter how many lanes you have, but if you have efficient methods of peeling off traffic much earlier in the process, it flows much more smoothly. As I noted above, many of the worst traffic areas suffer from having built their infrastructure many decades ago, and so the overall big picture shape of them is not an efficient way to distribute the traffic that flows through them. This is not an inevitability of cars, it's just poor planning that is difficult to adjust for. The same problem can happen with rail networks, or even with pedestrians in some places, such as stadiums. But I agree, the best way to help pedestrians is to advocate for the changes that don't come at the expense of drivers.
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  13263.  @BreadPickles  You keep listing negatives to car use, and for the most part, I don't disagree that those negatives exist. I don't think that they would come as a surprise to most Americans. I just think that most Americans agree that the benefits of car use significantly outweigh those negatives. It's not that people are making poor choices for themselves, it's just that the choices that work best for them are not necessarily the choices that you would want them to make. Trains will always be more efficient at cars for carrying passengers from one location on their route to another. Trains will also always be more expensive to build and maintain that single route than an equivalent highway route, and far less flexible at delivering passengers directly to their destination than a car is. The benefit to cars is that drivers can start at a location relatively far from a major arterial highway, they can all meet up at that highway, travel along it to a point near their destination, and then split off from the highway to drive to a point at, or very near to their destination, all without even exiting their vehicle. Outside of dense urban areas, it's very difficult for rail networks to compete with that even in ideal hypotheticals, so while I do think we can and should be doing more than we have, I don't foresee that ever resulting in a less car-centric overall environment, without some major black swan changes to the way people interact with the world. As to suburbs, as I've said, it's complicated. Everyone agrees that it would be nice to live in a suburb without any cars driving around. . . so long as they could still drive wherever they wanted. It's difficult to design a suburb to have the maximum amount of walkability and nature and comfort, as if cars weren't even a factor, while also having the infrastructure to allow all the occupants to get to work without massive traffic jams. You want to try and divert major traffic as far from the housing as you can manage, but without causing it to take an extra ten minutes of weaving around to enter and exit the community. There are ways to manage this balance, but it's never going to be the best at both factors, it's always going to be a compromise. And you can also build these suburban communities to be self-contained, with enough businesses and food and shopping to sustain at least some portion of the community's population at least some of the time, but again, this is never perfect, and the more of his you have, the more expensive the community would become in order to sustain all of these businesses. You could not achieve this with very low housing costs, because the businesses would go out of business. I think that a lot of suburban areas built within the last few decades have been designed to be walking and bike friendly, but it will always be a balancing act, and it will always come at a cost.
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  13269.  @alab3657  I wouldn't say that any of them were "homophobic," they just had viewpoints that reflected the times. 99% of Americans in 1980 would be considered "homophobic" by 2021 standards, but times change, viewpoints change, and now most of those people have also changed with the times and the views they hold now are more in line with the country as a whole. That is how things should work. Even at the time they were far less homophobic than their peers on the other side of the aisle, and that's all that mattered. Viewpoints on topics like gay marriage and trans rights have shifted massively in the last decade and a half, and the viewpoints of major Democratic politicians have shifted along with those of the rest of the country. Again, this is how it should work. It's only shameful for those who still haven't shifted along with the country and currently dig into those old viewpoints. "And just like voter ID which was deemed racist 1 month ago is now good to go. " Again, it always depends on how it is implemented. IF it is implemented in a way that leads to less black people being eligible to vote than before that law, then it obviously is racist. If it does not lead to that outcome, if it's implemented in a way that results in the same amount of black voter turnout as before the law, then it is not racist. Democrats have never opposed voter ID in principle (although they have rightly questioned the need for it), but they have certainly opposed implementations of voter ID that specifically make it less likely for Democratic voters to have or be able to present the necessary ID, relative to their Republican peers. That has not changed.
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  13398.  @jimconard9341  I'm sorry that the world is more complicated than you would like it to be, but there's nothing either of us can do to change that, so we may as well agree to live with it. I thought we were talking about immigration. Yes, cartels smuggle drugs too, but that is a business that has nothing to do with migrants, and generally takes place at ports of call. The more open the borders are to migrants, the less likely drugs are to pass the borders undetected. No, they do not "vanish" after being processed, they just cease to be a problem. They are either deported (and therefore not our problem) or they become productive members of the community, in which case they are a benefit, not a problem. It is only before they are processed, in which the state has a burden of care for them and they are prohibited from working, that they cause more cost than benefit. And yes, if fewer people were coming, then we could process them faster, but we can't do anything about that, it's like saying that the problem with Katrina was "there was too much water," as if that helps anything. The people will exist either way, all we can control is how to manage that fact. The fact remains that IF we INCREASE the processing capacity, which is what the administration is working on, then we can handle the current and expected future flows. If we continue to stick our finger into the dam and demand that the water just go away, then it will continue to overflow and cause trouble. And I'm glad we can agree that there would be no point to the bipartisan bill as a "political stunt." It was just a good faith effort by both sides to find a problem to this situation, until one of those sides decided they preferred to run on the problem instead of actually solving anything.
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  13575.  @browncow8422  Yes, I spent numerous attempts trying to get my own post to stick, and could never figure out how to get one of my points to go through. It's just the nature of the beast. What I would like to see done is some combination of A. greatly increasing the convenience of legal entry points so that every person showing up on our southern border can enter at a reasonable pace and have their case heard and processed fully within a month or less, and B. working to improve countries to our South to the point that they are viable alternatives to moving here, to reduce the demand for incoming migrants. And no, it is NOT ilłegal to release people claiming asyłum, they’re NOT required to be detained and kept in custody. I don't know who told you that or why you believed them. Also, it is against federal and international law for BP to stop illegal crossings. They have no jurisdiction until people actually cross the border. Once they do cross the border, they are required due process under the law, so they cannot be deported until they have their day in court, and due to backlogs, that can take months, or even years. Nothing has changed about that under the current administration, except that the previous one was putting these people into camps. Deportations under the current administration are consistent with the previous one, there are just more people arriving, because the reasons why people would want to move have increased. Țrump had the highest, UNTIL there was a pandemic, which was the ONE time during his administration that it actually dropped. It had nothing to do with him or his policies.
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  13576.  @browncow8422  The previous admin's remain in MX policy was struck down by federal courts, it would be illegal for the current administration, or future administrations, to use it. It only lasted as long as it did due to the pandemic, which was again, outside of any president's control. Biden's policy is no different than Obama's. And I think you misunderstood what I was saying. Obviously we have the ability to guard the legal ports of entry. If you show up at the port of entry, they can deny you entry, and they currently already do that. My point was that if we are talking about outside of that port of entry, if we are in the middle of a desert somewhere and a BP officer sees someone approaching from the south, they can't just legally push them back. If they are on the southern side of the border, they have no legal right to touch them, and if they are on the northern side of the border, then they have a legal obligation to detain and process them, which involves giving them due process. They have no capability to "stop" them, and never did. And no, there is no federal law which says the president may prohibit the entry of any people for any reason for any time period. There never was. Those are laws that are outside of a president's control. Do we have an obligation to let everyone in? No. But we do have an obligation to due process, which takes time, during which time they are a burden, so it is in our best interests to speed up that processing time and that is what the administration is trying to do. Long term, there is no solution to just ignoring the issue and hoping they go away, they will keep coming, and we need to figure out actual alternatives that work for them, or they will never stop. You can tell them that you don't want them, that is not their problem. But is it harmful to America that they come? No, not really. It is currently a problem, because most of them get stuck into a legal limbo in which they are not legal residents, but if we can resolve that backlog, get them fully incorporated into the country in an efficient way, then they will only benefit America's future, just as previous waves of immigration have.
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  13639.  @melissacoupal585  My point was that what you meant by it does not actually matter in the grand scheme of things. It's a concept that does not actually function. And no, you are completely wrong about the strategic oil reserve and how it works. For one thing, I was talking about our oil exports TODAY, in 2024, and we stopped drawing down the strategic reserves years ago, but even beyond that, the government does not determine who gets the oil from the strategic reserve, it is just released into the American oil market. If people in that market choose to resell it to a foreign country, that is capitalism, not an act of government. And that is the issue, oil will ALWAYS go to the highest bidder, so whether it is produced here or elsewhere is entirely irrelevant to the price. If any other country in the world is willing to pay more for US oil than Us consumers want to spend, then that oil will just be sold elsewhere. There is no such animal as "energy independent," UNLESS either A: your energy sources are not tradable, such as Iceland's geothermal, or B: you NATIONALIZE those sources, greatly restricting international trade on them. So far, no US administration has gone that far, so any talk of ":energy independence" is just a smokescreen for handouts to oil companies, meant to fool the gullible. Also, the Keystone pipeline has nothing to do with energy independence. It was a way to get Canadian oil to international markets, and only benefited those oil companies, not American consumers. And yes, I am aware of the "petro dollar," but it does not mean what you imply it to mean. It certainly does not mean that the US gets to define global oil prices in any way.
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  13805.  @goosnavslakovic4908  It's a balancing act. Many customers are conscientious. That's great, overall, but bad for businesses, because it meant that even if businesses stayed open, they wouldn't get the customers they would need to actually thrive, but would still have the costs of staying open, so that's a catch 22. And then there are the people who aren't conscientious, who would "business as usual" if they were allowed to, and would slow the recovery for everyone else and lead to the avoidable deaths of thousands (some people actually care about that sort of thing). And of course on the business side, they don't want to go out of business, so if there only options are "business as hard as we can, even if we know that it's unsafe and bad overall," or "go out of business," then they might choose the former, which is why we should not put them in that position in the first place. Covid obviously does not have a "low death rate," it has a horrendously high death rate, more deaths per month than the average flu season, even after vaccines became available. It was obviously vital that we took what steps were taken to mitigate the virus, and that anyone who opposed that was either ignorant or actively malicious. Fighting wealth inequalities and corporate consolidation is a good thing, but you don't do that over a pile of burning bodies. You take the steps necessary to save lives, and you fight wealth inequality and corporate consolidation via taxation and regulation. Those are the free market doing exactly what it is designed to do, covid restrictions may have caused short term pain for small businesses, but they were already being choked out by the status quo.
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  13811.  @goosnavslakovic4908  There is no specific difference between "businesses" and "corporations," but scale allows the big corporations to be more agile. If they need too throw money at a problem, they have the money to throw. The market shifted to mostly mail-order, and big corporations were better positioned to handle that. Nothing in government was preventing a small business from doing exactly what Amazon was doing, but the free market conditions put them at a serious disadvantage in doing so. I mean, "how are competitive businesses staying open any more responsible for the spread than corporations like Amazon? " This question doesn't even make sense. Customers, man. If you buy something from Amazon, then it is delivered to your door, and you never have to interact with another human, making it impossible for you to get infected that way. If you go to any physical location, then you take on certain risks of getting infected. There are things a business can do to reduce the chance of infection, and if they are open, they should definitely be doing those things, but it can never be as safe during a pandemic as mail-order. Nothing from government ever prevented ANY business from operating as a mail-order business, it's just that most businesses are not set up to do this effectively. "Business has unsafe practices? It will show through revenue. " That's not good enough. This cannot be a "free market situation" where businesses that do wrong get punished by the consumer. This is a PANDEMIC. It's measured in LIVES, not in REVENUES. The purpose of shutdowns and imposed safety requirements were to control the spread of the virus, any impact that had on a business's ability to turn a profit was inconsequential to that. You cannot make the argument that "a business is allowed to put its customers at risk as much as it wants, and if they don't like that then they won't shop there," because some people will shop there, but their decision to do so does not only impact themselves, it impacts everyone ELSE in the community. That's the problem with a pandemic, a pandemic cannot just be a "personal responsibility, everyone takes their own chances and suffers their own consequences" situation, because each person's behavior impacts far more people than just themselves. If you choose to be reckless, that does not only harm you, but it can harm dozens, hundreds, even thousands of others. And please, do not try to pretend that the pandemic is not a big deal. That's impossibly ignorant, you CANNOT make that argument in good faith. More people die to covid every two days than died on 9/11. It killed more people last year than a normal flu season, a normal year of car crashes, a normal year of gun deaths, and a normal year of suicides combined. It killed more than the combined US death toll of EVERY US war other than the Civil War. IT IS BAD. STOP TRYING TO PRETEND IT WASN'T THAT BAD. It just makes you look stupid, or evil. The government is not giving major corporations any money that they aren't also giving to smaller ones. Should they exclude the larger corporations from the relief packages? Maybe, but that would be government getting involved in business, and could get complicated from a legal and bureaucratic standpoint. This does do little to solve wealth inequality, and it is not attempting to. That is on the back burner right now because there are more pressing concerns, like saving human lives. When there is a house fire, you don't worry about the water damage, you put out the fire. We'll get to wealth inequality later.
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  13814.  @goosnavslakovic4908  It is good for city officials to order in-person businesses to lock down. That is a good thing. It is a thing that should be done when there is a pandemic. There is nothing whatsoever wrong with them doing that. In an ideal, Democratic world, though, the federal government would have funded more help for small businesses so that while they were shut down they would be more financially stable. But they still should have shut down. Probably for a lot longer than they did. Period. And yes, there is some risk to the employees at a warehouse, but it is much easier to mitigate those risks to those employees than it is for EVERY business across the country to responsibly protect EVERY customer. With a warehouse shipping business, you only have to worry about the exact employees within that facility. With open season on small businesses, you have to worry about millions of retail employees and hundreds of millions of customers. And again, if a small business wanted to operate as Amazon did, working entirely through mailorder, there was NO "shutdown" on that, nothing was stopping them. They just could not operate an in person business, because there was a pandemic going on. As for Walmart-like businesses, I agree that in a perfect world, they would have been closed too. But that would get complicated. The basic rule was that "grocery store" style businesses could stay open, because people NEED to eat, and those are the most efficient way for most people to get food. Home grocery delivery can get a bit complicated at the current time, and ordering all groceries to close would cause logistical nightmares to prevent starvation. Ideally the alternative would be what China did, provide free food delivery to every resident of Wuhan until the virus got under control there. But we really aren't set up for something like that, especially on a national scale. Of course ideally, a Walmart could keep their grocery side open but be forced to close down their non-grocery services, but that also would get complicated. Perhaps we should plan ahead better for next time and have such rules in place. "So the "some people" who shop there, who make a risk for themselves, will not be enough to keep those stores open, " Maybe. Eventually, but what about in the meantime? They could keep operating like that for months, at the least, and all during that time they would be posing a public health risk for others. It's like arguing that drunk driving should be legal because eventually they'll hit a tree or something and take themselves off the road. No, you act preventatively. "I'm sorry, but can you provide me with a plausible scenario where a reckless person suddenly endangers thousands of people?" Sure. One person is sick with covid. He goes to a "tyranny free" store where dozens of likeminded people ignore all regulations. Most of them leave the store sick. They go home to their friends and family, and get most of them sick. They are also likely covidiots, and each frequent other businesses and services that don't take precautions, and now we're into the hundreds. These people also go to places where more careful people are, like grocery stores, and even though the more careful people take every precaution, no precaution is 100%, so if they encounter lots of infected people, their odds of getting sick increase. As the hospitals fill up with covid patients, they can no longer care for the patients that come in, and people with heart attacks go untreated. That is how thousands die from one idiot. And the measures the governments took had a MASSIVE impact on the death rate. It would have been well over one million by this point had we done nothing. It could have been as low as 100K if we had done more, and sooner, or if more people actually LISTENED.
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  13818.  @goosnavslakovic4908  Ok, yes, if one person is unsafe and everyone else is perfectly safe, then chances of spread are low. But in a more realistic scenario in which dozens of people are unsafe and hundreds of others attempt to be safe but sometimes make mistakes, then spread occurs, and each person that behaves unsafely is that "one" person who infects dozens of others, who infect dozens of others, who infect dozens of others. The point is, that one person should never have been that one person. And again, short of staying at home 24/7/365, which was impractical for most people, there was no way to be perfectly safe. Even following all the available best practices only improved your odds. If we had a world in which all businesses stayed open and things were as "business as usual" as possible, but everyone, even the most covidiots of covidiots, followed every rule properly, maintained perfect social distancing and mask use and all that, the virus still would have spread to some level within the community. And of course you can't make policy based on ideal cases, you have to make them based on realistic amounts of rule-breaking. Covidiots are why we can't have nice things. As for "self segregation," it really doesn't work like that. Sure, you might have "blue areas" in which most people follow the rules, But there will always be overlap, in which one of the stores I go to might have all "blue people" shopping there, but then some of those people go to a place where some red people shop, or maybe some of the employees do, or maybe some of the delivery people who delivered produce to the store do. Or maybe they have family members that do. If there is "no rules" behavior going on within a community, or even adjacent to a community, then it will have some consequences for everyone. This is why it's important for rules to be as broad as possible and cover as large an area as possible, so that there is as little transmission as possible. Also, don't take early results as a sign of any great thing. It is a pandemic, it doesn't suddenly appear everywhere at once, it spreads. It literally wasn't in most places for the first few months. People were totally wasting their time by being careful in most communities. But of course they couldn't know if they were wasting their time until it was too late, so it was better to do the right thing, even if it turned out to be unnecessary, than to not do it and there's a massive outbreak. But by the summer and fall it had reached just about everywhere and become endemic to the local communities. Still some places though where it just so happened that no infected people had passed through, and they were bragging "I don't do anything different and nobody around me's gotten sick," which is nice, but also irrelevant to anyone in a community with active spread. I would never argue that all government entities handled everything perfectly, but I think that most of them were trying their best, and that most of the policies that got the most complaints were the ones that were the most necessary. Even in the California recall exit polls, the majority of voters thought that Newsome handled covid well, and a large chunk of those who thought that he didn't thought that he'd been too loose. I don't think that the government's reaction caused any significant shift in wealth disparity. The rich might have gotten a bit richer, but they were on that track already. If covid had never happened, the business landscape would have looked exactly like this in no more than a few more years of expected progress. The ONLY way out on that is regulation and taxation, and we need to be doing that anyway.
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  13824.  @beeweb1137  Again, that's not how it works. We need to keep paying the INTEREST on the debts we've already accumulated. *If you want the government to "stay within their limits," then the TIME to have that argument is in the BUDGETING PROCESS, and has NOTHING to do with the debt ceiling. I am really not understanding why this is taking you so long to understand, I have gone well past "explain it like I'm 5" territory. Think of it like this. Say you have a comfortable nuclear family, with a home and car loan that is slightly more than you make each year. That's clearly an unsustainable burden on you, right? I'm sure you would NEVER be so irresponsible than to take out a mortgage that is MORE than you make in a given year, right? So anyway, you also have a ten year old daughter, and you promise her a car for her 16th birthday, and college tuition when she graduates. In this scenario, the house and car would be your "debt," and the car and college would be your "unfunded liabilities." Now you can question the wisdom of having taken those loans and made those promises all you like, what's done is done. So this year, years before even you have to buy that car and tuition, you have to pay your home loan payment, and you declare "no, I would rather not, I have taken on too much debt." Even though you totally could pay what you owe, you just choose not to. So the bank forecloses on your house and car, repossessing them, and ruins your credit rating for decades to come. You have gained absolutely nothing, are unable to provide a home for your family, and certainly won't be able to get your kid that car or tuition later. Congratulations on your wise financial decisions. If, instead, you just continued to pay your debts to the bank, then you would continue to live i a nice house, continue to be able to drive to work, etc. Now maybe at 16 you wouldn't be able to afford that car, or at 18 you wouldn't be able to afford that tuition, and you might need ot have difficult talks with your child about alternatives, but those "unfunded liabilities" are far LESS of a problem than defaulting on your ACTUAL debts TODAY. And yes, it is irresponsible that we have to keep raising the debt ceiling, but the solution to that is not to actively play chicken with going over the cliff, the solution is to REMOVE the debt ceiling so that it no longer looms over us. The debt ceiling is not there for any GOOD reason, it was put there in 1917 by isolationists that didn't want us in WWI. It is a stupid relic of the past.
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  13857. The whole point of magitech is that it's applying scientific principles to some element that does not exist in the real world. I'm not going to argue that it does exist in the real world, but if it did, magitech could be the result. It's like when we discovered radioactivity. This was a "whole new trick" that science allowed us to apply in all sorts of ways. The idea of magitech is to just posit one fantastic element, a fuel source that does not seem to exist in reality, and then extrapolate all the potential uses of that discovery. Now, as to your theory that the Hextech crystals are "anti-matter," what if it is not a chunk of pure anti-matter, but a complex "antimatter mineral?" By that I mean, what if there were some method that produced a large blue crystal that, if separated out into individual atoms, would be like 99% "something," and 1% "anti-something," but in which the crystalline latices and the electromagnetic charges of the atoms were such that they didn't actually touch, that each anti-matter particle was caught suspended in between several matter atoms, unable to come into contact with them. In this case, the crystal would be completely safe (when properly handled), since the outer surfaces would be entirely normal matter, Carbon, let's say, but perhaps there would be better atoms for this purpose. If, however, you destabilize this relationship, by fracturing the structure of the crystal, or less catastrophically by using EM fields to extract some of the anti-particles from the lattice without directly touching them, then you could harness power from the crystal.
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  13970.  @mastick5106  I'm not citing any particular study, but I don't think it's unlikely, given the growth in EVs, combined with likely rises in fossil fuel costs, and expanded EV technology. My point is, 2035 is not an unreasonable goal to set in 2023. As for the "lithium bottleneck," it is already in the process of being solved, the mining and processing facilities necessary are already being built and will be available within no more than five years. Also factor in that alternate batter chemistries are also being developed, so cars built in 2030 and 2035 will likely have something significantly different, but will still benefit from the growth in EV availability over the next decade, since they will still use the same charging infrastructure. EVs do have some issues in cold weather (as do ICE cars), but they are definitely solvable problems. There have been great videos done on some recent problems people had in Chicago recently, and how those problems are completely avoidable. The more comfortable people get with EVs, the less likely such things will occur, the same as with ICE cars. I mean, Norway is one of the biggest buyers of EVs, so the cold doesn't bother them anyway. As for the power grid, we need to expand the power grid with or without EVs, and that too is an ongoing process. The power grid in 2023 couldn't handle everyone driving EVs, but the gasoline network in 1923 couldn't handle everyone driving automobiles, that's ok, it expands to meet demand. There's nothing preventing the power grid from keeping up. As to your last point, I'm not sure what you mean. They've modeled out what we can expect if people continue to drive cars at the current rates, that's plan A, and they've modeled out what would happen if we stopped all CO2 production now, that's plan B, neither of them terribly good, any plan to reduce CO2 production would fall somewhere in between, but modelling any specific program to do so would be difficult, because it's too small a part of a larger effort.
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  14157.  @noahmartin3057  Well look, the current inflationary spike has nothing to do with the fed. It's much worse in other countries, that the Fed have no influence over. The Fed is doing what they can to get inflation back down to reasonable levels. Too much inflation is definitely bad, everyone agrees on that, including the Fed, and rich people. But most economists agree that some inflation is good, 1-2%, because that means that if you just hoard money under the mattress, it loses value, and thing swill only get more expensive later, so you should probably buy things now. It keeps the economy moving at a steady pace. If your dollar could buy twice as much tomorrow as it does today, then why spend it today? That leads to economic stagnation, where nobody is buying, so nobody is selling, so nobody is producing, so nobody has jobs. So the "value of the dollar" is lower than it used to be, and it always will be, unless things go terribly wrong. But this does not matter. All that actually matters is that the value of an hour of work remains steady or improving, and that has nothing to do with the Fed, it has to do with business. The value of an American worker's labor has never had anything at all to do with actions of the Fed, it has had to do with policies that allowed businesses to shift money from workers to management and shareholders. And as for two-worker households, that again had nothing to do with the Fed, that had to do with women entering the workforce. When you have twice as many employees, the value of labor goes down. This is inevitable. I don't know why anyone would think the Fed has any say in the matter.
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  14250.  @Real_2Phase  Again, no, authoritarianism is at the furthest point to the right. This is why authoritarian parties are called "far right" parties. And again Anarchy makes sense in the middle because it is the opposite of any form of government, and therefore can't be at either end of the authoritarian/democratic spectrum. It is the lack of either of those things. To your second point, you completely misunderstand what "authoritarian" means. It does NOT mean "the government gets to make rules that everyone needs to live by. It's never meant that. That's just "government." Authoritarianism means that the people in charge of the government do not represent the will of the people, they are applying their own personal standards upon the people, in spite of them. Basically, say you have a tiny community of only six total people. Five of those people decide to have a big, noisy party, one of them opposes the party, and shuts it down. That is authoritarianism. Conversely, say that one of them decides to make a ton of noise and disrupt the community, and the other five want things more quiet, so they shut him down, that is not authoritarianism, because it represents the overall will of the community. Soviet communism does not reflect actual left wing principles because those at the top, making the decisions, were an authoritarian oligarchy that did not represent the will of the people. Countries like the ones you listed call themselves democratic, and they pretend to have elections, but since they do not in fact have valid elections, they are not in fact leftist. Also, in most cases, they were never voted in at all, they just seized power from previous governments, but even in cases where they did get voted in once, they used that authority to undermine the democratic institutions so that no future valid elections were held. Now IF the people could fairly vote for their representatives and those representatives had made those choices, then it could have been considered a left-wing organization, but they never had that. The closest thing to a true leftist government would be like Sweden at certain points, or other social democratic countries.
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  14251.  @Real_2Phase  So then why are "far right" parties all authoritarian and not about individual liberty? You have your own personal definition here, but it has nothing to do with the political spectrum that most people use. Again, "anarchy" is not on the spectrum because it is merely a lack of government. It would be the equivalent to "asexuality" on a sexuality spectrum. Your idea of the tyranny of the majority is flawed, because the alternative would be that the one person could do whatever he wants, even if it is harming other people's standard of living. Ultimately, when people come into conflict, there needs to be a method of resolving it to the satisfaction of the largest number of them. As they say, "democracy is the worst form of government except for all the other ones." It may not make everyone happy, but it is most likely to make most people happy. Also, your farming metaphor had nothing to do with socialism. The dangers you cited are not an outcome of collectivism, they are an outcome of ANY government that chooses not to provide reasonable respect for individual choice. The outcomes you propose would be just as likely to result from ANY governmental system that makes poor choices, regardless of whether they are democratic or authoritarian in structure. Democratic systems are just less likely to result in such outcomes, because larger groups of people have more checks and balances. You claim that I'm misguided because socialism masks authoritarian goals, but you are more misguided in applying all potential evils to "socialism," rather than reflecting on how they can apply to all forms of government, including anarchy. Just remember, the endgame of anarchy is always authoritarianism, because power abhors a vacuum. Pushing for anarchy is only an attempt to flip the board, in hopes of landing on a better square once it all settles back down.
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  14252.  @Real_2Phase  Again though a "far right" political party is, factually, authoritarian in nature. That is what the term means. You can choose to believe that this is not what the term means, but that doesn't change the fact that everyone else will use it differently than you do. Libertarians are mainly on the right because they oppose collective action, but are more toward the center of the political spectrum, not the far right. They are balanced against liberal democrats on the left. As for your definition of socialism, it was one invented by those on the right who want to associate socialism with the various self-described communist states, rather than with the more successful socialist policies. Any seriously political scholar understands that the soviet model failed at basic socialism. Again, your farm metaphor is only bad because in the end, those in power decided that the farmer should do what they want, instead of what he wanted. That is a problem of bad governance, not an issue of socialism. It would be equally bad whether the 5/6 decided that the one should farm what he does not want to, OR if 1/5 decided that the farmer should farm what he does not want to. The issue was not whether it was democratic or autocratic, the issue is that the governing system did not care about the desires of the individual in question. A "tyranny of the majority" may sound bad to you, but it is at the very least better than a "tyranny of a few," which is what far right parties aim for. The problem is the tyranny, not how it gets there. A democracy is less likely to result in tyranny than an autocracy is. Collectivism is less likely to result in tyranny than autocracy is. "The most people the most happy" is likely to lead to more people being happy than not, which is a better outcome, if perhaps not a perfect one. There is no reason to let the perfect be the enemy of the good. And in practice, anarchy never continues to be anarchy. Some force, be it a strong individual (autocrat) or a strong group of people (oligarchy), will eventually seize power for themselves, and nothing can stop them doing so, because there are no institutions to do so. It's impossible to sustain actual anarchy when dealing with any population size larger than "one." This is why it's important to have a strong alternative government in place, and again, democracy is the best alternative proposed so far to hold that position, even if it doesn't always work out perfectly.
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  14263.  @garyoldham4449  You say that you believe "And allowing the human race to evolve gradually. Instead of tyrannical ideologues. . ." and yet we are talking about a case in which a tyrannical ideologue invaded a sovereign nation, claimed several chunks of it for himself, intended 9but failed) to seize the rest of it. No person who can claim in good faith to oppose tyranny can possibly support Russia in this conflict. Whatever your beliefs about Ukraine, you would be honor bound to insist on a 100% Russian withdrawal FIRST, and THEN a consideration of any independence claims for the remaining regions. Also, Ukraine is a Republic, not a Federation, so I don't know why you bring up Federations. You say "I don't believe in isolationism. I'm one step above that. Offshore. I don't believe you have to have free trade with a horrible Nation. On the other hand sanctioning a nation only hurts the citizens. So what good is that? It does mean that the nation doing the sanctioning will get a larger slice of the pie." So you believe in Offshore, but without doing any of the things that would make Offshore any different than Isolationism. So you believe in Isolationism. In any case, both are bad if that's the only tool you have. You need more than that, because the rest of the world still exists, no matter how much you want to ignore it. Allowing problems to fester across the world means that eventually they will come home to roost. Germany never would have invaded France if they'd been blocked from invading Poland. Japan never would have attacked Pearl Harbor if they'd been driven out of China. Waiting until an enemy has conquered everywhere else and is on your doorstep only means it will be too late to get your boots on.
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  14438.  @hashiramasenju8785  . . . why would I rely on the government to tell me whether a rule meets the definition that the government set for what that rule is. . . Is that a serious question? You believe that the research meets the government's definition because you either don't understand the government's definition or your don't understand the research, the government does not have to write rules so simple that even an idiot could understand them, these rules are meant to be used by medical professionals who can understand them. Yes, perhaps they could "stupid proof" the rules and make them much simpler, but what benefit would that be? If your argument is that the government would not accurately report rule breaking, well I hate to tell you, but the government reports on itself ALL the time. "The government" is not some monolith that is constantly moving forward with a single voice. "the government" is millions of individuals in hundreds of different departments, and when one of those departments steps out of line, it is the role of the regulatory bodies, like the inspectors general, to determine that and to apply sanctions as necessary, and they do that. It wasn't the job of the NIH regulators to approve this research at any cost, it was only the job of those regulators to determine whether it was valid or not. There is no incentive for them to approve something that they should not approve, that would only cause them future headaches. If they get handed a research brief, and they read it, and their honest impression is "this would be illegal," then there would be ZERO reason for them to approve it. Instead, they read it, they reported that it was fine, and so it was fine. Even if you disagree with their findings, it would be 100% honest for ANYONE to then report that the research was fine, because it would meet the definition of that term. As for the origin of covid? It came from an animal. I do not believe there is any sufficient evidence that it was intentionally modified by humans for any purpose. I still believe that the wet market release was the most likely way that it entered the human population, but that a lab leak is at least plausible as well. I believe that if it was the result of a lab leak, it was entirely accidental, and was a release of a natural strain that they were studying at the time, which is the job we would want them to be doing. Even if it did come from the lab, and even if it were somehow modified, it was not related to any of the projects that the NIH had funded there, which are well documented and completely different biologies to Covid-19. the purpose of the Wuhan lab was a reaction to previous epidemics that originated in Asia, to study similar viruses and to get ahead of future outbreaks. Virologists had been predicting something like the covid pandemic for over a decade now, and even if you buy the lab leak theory, had we done nothing, it still likely would have occurred within the next decade at some point. Research like that done at the Wuhan Institute is what helped us to prepare for this one, helped us to develop the basis for the vaccine, and allowed us to get on top of the virus when it did hit. without research of that type, we would not have a vaccine today, likely would not have a vaccine for several years yet, and would have to be living under extreme lockdown conditions for the duration. the thing that troubles be is in how these efforts to save lives have been demonized by certain parties who just want someone tangible that they can blame for all of this, rather than just "nature." Nature has killed a LOT of people over the years, and will continue to do so. Sometimes, there is not one person to blame, and that's ok.
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  14448.  @hashiramasenju8785  If someone is claiming that they are lying, and they have no reasonable basis to make that claim, then yeah, that claim should be dismissed out of hand. For someone to make the claim that they are lying, they would need evidence to support that claim, which they do not have. Rand Paul saying "I think it's gain of function" is not evidence. Credible outside experts saying "we think that it's gain of function" is something, but still not evidence of lying. Here's the thing about "lying," if the experts at the NIH reviewed the grant and said it wasn't gain of function, then that's LITERALLY IT, there is no counter argument to that. If that's what they said, and Fauci repeats it, he is literally incapable of being a liar for that, because it is what they determined. Even if everyone outside the organization is convinced that it was gain of function, Fauci would still not be lying for stating what the official determination said. That's just how it works. The only way that anyone could actually get into trouble over this is IF there were direct evidence that someone in authority put direct pressure on the internal examiners to get a result that was contrary to their own findings, OR if there were direct evidence of bribery or other forms of material corruption, OR if there is a record in which Fauci himself specifically says this was gain of function but that he was going to somehow obscure that, THEN there might be a case for wrongdoing, but otherwise it's just blowing smoke. But "I don't like the results they found, therefore there must have been something shady going on," is not evidence. And Hashirama might be stronger than Orochimaru, but much like you, he is not a medical expert, and cannot even question the actual medical experts on their findings.
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  14463.  @FalonGrey  I'm sure that there were some Democrats who were in favor of total isolation from the Middle East, just as there are plenty of Republicans who have that stance, but "Democrats" in general do not, and certainly not in a reckless manner. As for the Iran deal, nobody trusts Iran to not build nukes, which is why we had the Iran deal, which was based around verification. All Trump did was cost us that verification capability, which allowed Iran to do whatever they wanted. I'm not saying you specifically wanted to approach Mars recklessly, I was making an analogy, that just because Democrats have certain long term goals, does not mean that they would support someone for pursuing those goals in a way that was reckless and destructive. Democrats support Medicare for all, for example, but would be very critical of anyone who implemented it in a way that completely obliterated the US healthcare system in the short term, when there are instead paths to pursue that goal more responsibly. Situations where "people turned on" an issue that Trump engaged, typically did so because Trump tended to engage them poorly. They did not seem to adequately address the intention of those issues, failed to function efficiently, and were basically viewed as "virtue signalling," attempting to appeal to people who cared about that issue, without actually caring whether a good job was done with it or not. A lot of Democrats did not support our engagement in Syria, but that does not mean that they should blanket approve of leaving hundreds of American soldiers and thousands of our Kurdish allies out to dry.
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  14465.  @FalonGrey  Oh, there are tons of anti-WAR Democrats, sure, but that doesn't mean that they want to end the wars badly. Even Biden is facing a lot of criticism from some on the left for how his withdrawal from Afghanistan will impact women and those who allied with us. Mainstream Democrats generally thought that it was a mistake for Bush to invade Iraq, and that we should try to get out of there, but also typically believed that we needed to do so carefully. They would not applaud a chaotic and rushed withdrawal. And again, the Iran deal was not about allowing them to have a nuke, that was what Trump's policy was. The Obama Iran deal was about preventing them from getting one by enforcing strict scrutiny. There was no further development during Obama's term, it was only after Trump blew up the deal that their progress started up again. Obamacare did not raise the price of your friend's medication, greedy pharmaceutical companies did that, and would have done so with or without Obamacare. What Obamacare did was ensure that millions who didn't have healthcare had it accessible. Now Democrats were not satisfied with where Obamacare started, and tried numerous times over the years to improve on it, but were shut down consistently by Republicans. If you want Obamacare improved, then contact congressional Republicans and make sure they step out of the way. "You like Trump? Then you're a buck tooth, racist, inbred, mentally disabled, NAZI, bigot who hates brown people. " Hey, Democrats do NOT think that about people who support Bush or Trump. I don't think any of them think those people are "buck toothed." But yeah, the rest is spot on. Very self-aware of you. If people were polite and progressive enough, then they wouldn't put an "R" next to their name.
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  14558.  @blakethegreatone2058  There's also a 100% chance that gas prices will rise over time, as the cost of extracting it goes up and up, so if your argument is "energy prices will be higher in future," yes, they likely will be, but gas prices will always be higher. As for the cost of the EV itself, I get that you've been told those things, but it's important to keep in mind that they aren't actually true. You can buy a brand new EV for less than the average cost of an ICE car, and you can get used ones for much less. Those prices will only go down over time. Nobody needs a charging port to charge their car, you can plug it into a standard home outlet, which will be slower than if you get a dedicated port, but should provide plenty of charge per night for most daily drivers. Even if you do invest in a higher speed charging port, that's a fairly minor one time cost. As for the cost of replacing batteries, unless you get into a major accident, your battery is rated for ten years, I have no idea where you got five, and even at ten years, it's not like a lead battery where after ten years and a day the car just won't turn on, the battery just gets less and less efficient over time, so at ten years and a day, your 300 mile battery might be a 275 or 250 mile battery. At 20 years it might be a 200 mile battery. It should continue to function at some level for 30+ years. If you absolutely require the maximum possible range, then you might have to trade it out occasionally, but you can sell the old one off to places that recycle them or re-use them for home storage, or use it for home storage yourself. And that's keeping in mind that your average maintenance costs will be much lower over the life of the vehicle, since it has far fewer parts that break down than an ICE, no oil changes, engine overhauls, mufflers, etc. Over the life of the vehicle, you will spend a LOT less driving an EV.
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  14560.  @blakethegreatone2058  Yes, on average EVs are more expensive, but that's because a lot of them are start-ups, so they pursue a luxury market first, build up some capital, and then spread out into the budget market. So of the cars being produced today, most of them are luxury cars, and relatively few of them are "budget" vehicles, but just because that is the case, you aren't obligated to buy a luxury EV if you typically buy an "average" car, and the fact remains that there ARE EVs on the market that are cheaper than the average ICE car, so if you are in the market for an "average" car, you CAN find an EV at that price. That's all that matters, from a consumer perspective. And again, you do NOT need a special charging port for an EV, not in most US homes, at least. For example, an Ioniq 5 can charge to full in 58 hours on a level 1 charger. "But 58 hours is a long time!" Yeah, but that's from zero to full, that's 200 miles of charge. Do you drive 200 miles a day? If so, you probably would need a level 2 charger, which can charge the car in 5 hours, but MOST drivers do not drive 200 miles per day. If you only drive 100 miles per day, then it would take less than 24 hours, and if you drive 50 miles per day, it would take less than 12. Plenty of US drivers don't drive significant distanced every day, so they don't need more than that, but of course you do need to consider your own situation. In either case, setting up a level 2 charger is not a huge expense overall. And again, you were wrong on the batteries, or at least were presenting a bad faith argument about them. The point is that while they do degrade over time, it's not an issue that most drivers will need to worry about, and those who do would be spending more cost fueling and maintaining their ICE vehicle than they would "replacing batteries." EVs are cheaper over the life of the vehicle.
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  14561.  @blakethegreatone2058  Well of course the cheapest EV is more expensive than the cheapest gas vehicle. Who would expect otherwise? But I was talking about the average price, and you can find EVs that are lower than the AVERAGE new car price, which is $48K. There are plenty of EV models at below that price, you listed two of them yourself. I was just pointing out that when you said the average EV price was higher, that was due to the average EV being a $100K+ luxury vehicle like a Rivian or higher end Tesla. If you're in the market for a budget EV, you can get one used for under $10K. Right now, 2023, perhaps even that is outside of your budget, but prices will come down over time as newer models release and economy of scale factors into it. There used to be a time when the cost of the cheapest cars on the market would be the equivalent of hundreds of thousands in today's dollar. That changes as the market expands. " Also, if you buy a used electric vehicle it will need much more work than a gas powered car to get it running. " That's not remotely true. A used EV, on average, will require ZERO work to get going, you just get in and drive. EVs are much lower maintenance than an ICE car. If it's over ten years old and you absolutely require its maximum range, then you might need to replace the battery, and that would be expensive, but most drivers will not need to do that, so it's a moot point. "and if I get the faster charger I do more damage to the batteries and will have to replace them sooner. " Again, you exaggerate. Yes, faster charging will cause the battery to degrade faster, but YOU DON'T NEED TO REPLACE THE BATTERIES AS OFTEN AS YOU IMPLY. You just don't. That's not a thing. It's like saying that you need to completely replace the engine on an ICE car sometimes, which is true, but it's not an expense that most drivers will need to worry about. An EV that only charges off a level 1 charger might have a battery that lasts 20-30 years, while one that charges entirely off of level 2 chargers might last 15-25, but either will last "long enough" to get the full value out of that vehicle. If you're so concerned about getting a level 2 charger, that is still only adding a couple thousand bucks to the cost of the car, which in the grand scheme of things is not a lot. If you are driving more than 27 miles per day, then you would make that up on gas savings in the first year alone. Look, I get that right now, in 2023, EVs are not the right solution for everyone. I can't promise you that YOU getting an EV today would be the right choice for you. But we can at least agree that of the millions of drivers on the road, the EV would be the better choice for MOST of them today, right? The ones that don't have to drive massive distances every day, and that have the set-up to charge them efficiently overnight. As for everyone else, that too will change over time. Within the next ten years, there will be EVs with longer ranges at more affordable prices, there will be more and more charging spaces anywhere you could possibly want one, and many of those could charge your car to full in minutes, just like a gas station. The overall costs will come down, the overall value will go up, and meanwhile ICE cars will just get more and more and more expensive to operate, as gas prices continue to rise.
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  14625.  @DREAMLANDSLEEEP  The governors certainly know better how to handle their problems than THIS White House, but if there were an actual President in the White House, then the federal government would be able to do a better job of managing a national crisis than 50 independent governors. For example, instead of each Governor having to compete to get medical supplies on the open market, bidding up the price against other states, an effective federal government would buy up all the medical supplies that the entire country needs, using defense appropriation rights to get them at minimal prices, and then use military supply chains to distribute them to the states as needed. This would be better for all governors than the current model, and many governors have been asking the Trump administration to do this for months. It's unfair to compare the US to the EU, because the EU is a loose confederation, not a full country as the US is meant to be. They do have an extremely weak central government by design, and nobody expects the US federal government to behave as weakly as the EU's. As for job losses, it's a necessary part of this. Better that they be unemployed than dead. The role of the Federal government should be in helping businesses and employees to stay financially stable over the course of this crisis, so that when the public is ready to open up again, they can pick up where they left off. The current administration is dropping the ball on this though, focusing more on big business and stock markets than on small businesses and employees. The House Dems have had to fight tooth and nail too get even modest provisions past the Senate, and even those the Trump administration is trying to cheat by firing oversight. "Opening up the economy" would be a disaster, because those curves that have been flattening out over the past week or two would take right off again, and we'd be right back where we started. There can be NO "opening of the economy" until either A: there is a vaccine, or B: actual active cases of the virus have dropped into the tiny digits, and testing options are everywhere, such that if any one random person is found to be infested, they can immediately be isolated, and everyone they met tested and isolated, so that everyone else can go about their business without spread. There is a VAST VAST difference between a responsible reaction to a crisis and a "fascist takeover." If a policeman tackles someone just for insulting him or something, that would be a fascist response. If a policeman tackles someone to prevent that person being shot or caught in an explosion, it's saving his life. Context is everything.
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  14626.  @DREAMLANDSLEEEP  Most of them, sure. But a lot of people DO die. over 30,000 Americans are already dead because of this, and this is just the START. Even if we stayed fairly locked-down, there will likely be 10-20K more dead by the end of this. If we did "open up" any time soon, that number would jump to hundreds of thousands. The early projections weren't wrong, they were just based on the assumption that we wouldn't lock down as successful as we have. If we failed that lock-down, the original projections would kick right back into effect. And again, it is the government's job to PREVENT people "starving to death" during the crisis. This situation is like a medically-induced coma, you knock the patient out so that they can get over whatever their condition is, and then wake them back up. If you don't feed them intervenously during that, then yeah, they would die, and that would suck, which is why you don't do that. So yes, we need the shutdown, and yes, it needs to keep going on, but also yes, while the shutdown is on, it is the government's responsibility to keep everyone fed and make sure that they don't get kicked out of their houses and basically keep the wheels running at their minimum levels, so that when we do open back up, everyone is alive and well and ready to do their jobs again, and those jobs are still there waiting for them. It may be "bad for the economy" to keep in lockdown, but it's also "bad for the economy" to lose 100K+ Americans. Even if they did just "open things back up," the economy would be in the toilet for the next 18 months because any rational American would STAY in lockdown voluntarily, not going to theaters, sports, restaurants, etc., because they don't want to be one of those 1% that die, or to carry that disease to friends and relatives that might be one of those 1%. We don't have a lockdown because of AIDS because AIDS is FAR less contagious. If you see someone on the street with AIDS, and you manage to not fuck them, then you'll be fine. Covid isn't super contagious, but it is plenty contagious, just being in the general area of someone who has it is plenty, so having a bunch of people hanging out together is bad news. Admittedly I haven't been following EU news all that closely lately, but I seriously doubt that this will "set back the EU" any. EU countries are acting independently because that's how they are currently set up, but that's not a rejection of the idea of the EU, and might eventually lead to even closer bonds between them as they analyze what worked and what didn't about this crisis. It's quite possible that countries like Spain and Italy would have been in better shape if they'd had more direct intervention from other members of the EU.
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  14627.  @DREAMLANDSLEEEP  Again, it's the government's responsibility to not only enforce the shutdown, but also to make it tolerable. If they fail at either, they fail at both. We currently have an awful government, that's the fault of 2016 Bernie Bros, but we have to make do with what we've got, because none of the alternatives are good. Hopefully you live in a State that is at least trying to offset the awfulness of the Federal response. Even if it all breaks down and people go out and get themselves killed in spite of the lockdown, spreading it out makes things better because it means the hospitals are not rushed. NY is in an OK place at the moment. They were on track to be in an awful place next week, but their measures slowed that down. If they stopped doing their thing today, they would be in that same awful place in a month or two, that's how this works. By slowing things down as best we can, we keep people from rushing the hospitals, leaving them better able to not only handle the incoming CV patients, but also handle normal medical issues like cancer and injury. "You may think I'm selfish idiot, but I would rather die young and free than live long life of imprisonment." Oh, don't be dramatic. Even worst case here we're talking a year or two of watching Netflix and eating delivery food, go ask Britain during the Blitz what hardship is like. More likely we can get the case load down to low enough levels that we can partially reopen within the next few months, but we can't jump the gun. It's like a house fire, you have to put out all the flames, because if you only put out a few and then move back in, they will just come back. "So if most people would responsibly stay in voluntary lockdown why do we need the government to do it? " Because the ones that wouldn't would still be a problem. They would still be getting sick, putting pressure on the system, carrying things around, etc. Etc's like how relatively small numbers of anti-vaxers can screw things up for everyone else. We live in a society. "Also if most cases are asymptomatic and most people would get it and therefore gain some form of resistance, the assumed second wave would not be as impactful as the first. " Depends on how it happens. If it happens six months from now after the virus has slowly spread through the community, maybe, but if it happens in one month because people rush to the streets again, it would be at least almost as bad as the first wave, because there would still be way more people who aren't immune than immune people. " At this point herd immunity is in my opinion the best shot we have until there is vaccine which is not even 100% sure we ever will get one. " And yet every country that tried a "herd immunity" response worked out fine. For about a month. And then they became a clusterfuck. Herd immunity is a good long term strategy, but you need to build it up carefully, not just "everyone get sick right now!" Also remember that we'd still be talking around 100,000 dead Americans taking that approach, maybe you, maybe your parents or grandparents. I'd rather not burn mine on a pyre just to get the economy going again. Also, as far as vaccines, we're almost certain to get one, and we'll know that we have it relatively soon. The thing about vaccines is that the long part is not so much finding it, as testing it. We don't want a vaccine that totally works, but also totally kills 10% of people, and then rush that out the door, which is why they take a year or so to test. If there never is a vaccine, then sure, herd immunity will be the eventually result, but we still want to spread that out over the next year or so, so that the system can handle the process. Think of the country like a patient, if you give a cancer patient their entire cycle of chemo drugs all at once, they WILL die, which is why you spread it out over days or weeks, so their body can make the changes it needs to slowly. Whatever changes we make her, they can't be rushed, and doing so will just harm the patient.
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  14701.  @stefanl5183  Beg all you like, it remains true. In a democratic system, candidates are at the end of the day beholden to voters. They can get away with some things, but at some point, they would lose elections for differing too far from what the public wants. Corporations, meanwhile, have no accountability to the public. Basically, a corrupt government representative may allow a company to get away with something that the public would not want, but if you removed that representative from the equation, then the company would just do that exact same thing without any chance of accountability, so while it is possible for corruption to exist within a government, it is less likely. "Therein lies the fallacy! Who do you trust to conduct the "oversight and moderation"?" A fair media, accurately informing the public, and a public that is capable of voting based on that information. Again, imperfect, just better than the alternatives. "And who decides what a "net positive outcome for society" is or is not?" The nature of reality. If more people are better off, better positioned on the hierarchy of needs, then that is a higher net positive. "there's no guarantee they will make the best choices, " There are never any guarantees, no perfect system exists, but, again, this is better than the alternatives, because it reduces the potential problems, and increases the potential checks against them. If you have police, there is potential that they will behave corruptly and cause harm, but that potential is lower than what would be caused if there was no accountability for criminals at all. "Even if the one size fits all solutions they come up with benefit the majority, there will still be many who's liberty and freedom of choice will be taken away." Such is the nature of society. It is impossible for large groups of people to all live "perfectly free" lives, because every person's action impacts those around them. Anyone who believes that they "live completely free" is either blind to the barriers around them, or is thoughtlessly oppressing others in the process. In any society of more than a single individual, there must be some negotiation on what people are and are not allowed to do, and the challenge is coming up with the most effective and agreeable version of that.
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  14740.  @thetruth7118  No, a birth disorder is something that happens as a part of the pregnancy, a chromosomal anomaly is genetic. And no, I wasn't saying that we should have whole new categories due to chromosomal anomalies, I was only pointing out that they exist, so there are some people who biologically are not exactly male or female. This is something entirely separate from gender and transgender people, however. As for what the other genders are, again, it depends on the society in question. A gender is a role one plays in a society, so many societies choose to break down those roles based on traditional assumptions of sex, but others involve alternate roles outside of that binary. In the US, a "neutral" gender is generally accepted, neither man nor woman, and in other cultures, there are other distinctions, usually involving having some aspects that are generally associated with men, and others generally associated with women. If that sounds complicated, that's fine, most of that is only really necessary from an anthropological standpoint, all MOST people need to understand is that a person's gender is not necessarily aligned with their sex, and that if they tell you that they are a certain gender, it is generally best to just accept that, rather than argue with them about it. As to your later point, people started to better understand gender over the mid 20th century, and that understanding has become more and more complete over time, but the concepts have existed since humans have walked the Earth (not counting other animals). There have always been "traditional roles" that people select into, often along lines based in biological sex, and there have always been people that did not fit into that specific grouping.
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