Comments by "PAPAZA TAKLA ATTIRAN İMAM" (@papazataklaattiranimam) on "MasterofRoflness"
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Turks indeed had a decisive role in triggering historical major events like the Migration Period, Crusades, Age of Discovery as well as ending the Middle Ages with the conquest of Constantinople, fall of the Roman Empire.
The Turks were considered as the best warriors due to their horsemanship and skill in archery.
Kaushik Roy., n.d. Military Transition in Early Modern Asia, 1400-1750: Cavalry, Guns, Government and Ships (Bloomsbury Studies in Military History). p.24.
The Turks too , the great warriors of the steppes , were almost haughty in the assumption that they inherited the jihad fighting spirit of the tradition and carried it half - way into Europe .
Turko-Persia in Historical Perspective p.94
The Seljukian Turks had had some great warriors ; the period of their power was during the eleventh and twelfth centuries ; they had taken the place of the Arabs as the great Moslem power of the east , though an Arab caliph still nominally reigned at Baghdad .
The Divine Aspect of History Volume 2 p.324
In the west the Seljuq invasion of Asia Minor began the process which was to make it the modern land of the Turks and the base from which the greatest Islamic empire of the past 600 years would expand into southeast Europe .
MacEachern, S., 2010. The new cultural atlas of the Islamic world. p.32.
THE TURKS AND THE WEST. Europe stood in awe of the Ottomans who crushed many states and conquered vast territories, going, as all patriotic Turks will proudly point out, "all the way to the gates of Vienna." European literature is replete with the depictions of the Turk as the hated enemy. The English often thought of the Turk as awe-inspiring and destructive. Thomas Fuller wrote in The Holy Warre (1639): "The Turkish Empire is the greatest... the sun ever saw. ...Grass springeth not where the grand signior's horse setteth his foot."
Halman, T. and Warner, J., 2007. Rapture and revolution. Syracuse, NY: Syracuse University Press, Crescent Hill Publications, p.9.
During the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries , understanding the Turks ' military organization , given the credit for the greatest empire since antiquity , became a major European preoccupation .
Speake, J., n.d. Literature of travel and exploration. p.891.
By the middle of the 16th century, the Turks arguably possessed the greatest empire in the world.
A History of the Middle East Paperback – March 15, 2006 by Saul S. Friedman (Author) p.181
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@OuhHey Origine et définition
De nos jours, un Turc n'est jamais qu'un être humain comme un autre. Et même s'il y a des Turcs qui détiennent des records du monde en haltérophilie, rien ne semble justifier qu'on qualifie plus de fort un Turc qu'un Grec, un Monégasque ou un Chinois.
Mais il ne faut pas oublier l'histoire de la Turquie.
Avant que ce pays ne devienne ce qu'il est aujourd'hui, il y a eu l'Empire ottoman bâti par un peuple de guerriers à coups de conquêtes en Europe, en Afrique et en Asie. Ces combattants turcs ou ottomans impressionnaient par leur force, leur courage et aussi leur brutalité, leur cruauté.
C'est ainsi qu'au XVIIe et XVIIIe siècle, le Turc symbolisait l'incroyant, l'ennemi brutal. On disait d'ailleurs de quelqu'un de rude et de sans pitié qu'il était "un vrai Turc" et traiter quelqu'un "à la turque", c'était le traiter sans ménagement.
L'expression est née au milieu du XVe siècle, un peu après la prise de Constantinople (l'ancienne Byzance et l'Istanbul d'aujourd'hui) par les troupes du sultan Mehmet II en 1453.
Exemples
« - J'en ai deux, monsieur, qui, sans vanité, pourraient être présentées au pape, surtout mon aînée, qui est un joli brin de fille. Je l'élève pour être comtesse, quoique sa mère ne le veuille pas.
- Quel âge a-t-elle, monsieur, cette future comtesse ?
- Mais elle approche de quinze ans : déjà cela vous est grand d'une toise, gentil, frais comme une matinée d'avril, leste, découplé, gaillard, et surtout fort comme un Turc.
- Diable ! voilà de bonnes dispositions pour être comtesse.
- Oh ! sa mère a beau dire, elle le sera. »
Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra - Don Quichotte de la Manche
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@bghn4114 Egyptian/Sudanese sources:
Native Egyptians applied the term atrak (Turks) indiscriminately to the Ottomans and Mamluks, who were at the top of the social pyramid, while Egyptians, most of whom were farmers, were at the bottom.
During her stay in Upper Egypt, Lady Duff Gordon mentions the opinion of an Upper Egyptian man on the Ahmad Al Tayeb Uprising[111] that happened during her stay. She puts what he said thus: "Truly in all the world none are miserable like us Arabs. The Turks beat us, and the Europeans hate us and say quite right. By God, we had better lay down our heads in the dust (die) and let the strangers take our land and grow cotton for themselves".[112]
'At-Turkiyyah' (Arabic: التركية) was the general Sudanese term for the period of Egyptian and Anglo-Egyptian rule, from the conquest in 1820 until the Mahdist takeover in the 1880s. Meaning both 'Turkish rule' and 'the period of Turkish rule' it designated rule by notionally Turkish-speaking elites or by those they appointed. At the top levels of the army and administration this usually meant Turkish-speaking Egyptians, but it also included Albanians, Greeks, Levantine Arabs and others with positions within the Egyptian state of Muhammad Ali and his descendants. The term also included Europeans such as Emin Pasha and Charles George Gordon, who were employed in the service of the Khedives of Egypt. The 'Turkish connection' was that the Khedives of Egypt were nominal vassals of the Ottoman Empire, so all acts were done, notionally, in the name of the Ottoman Sultan in Constantinople. The Egyptian elite may be described as 'notionally' Turkish speaking because while Ali's grandson Ismail Pasha, who took over power in Egypt, spoke Turkish and could not speak Arabic, Arabic rapidly became widely used in the army and administration in the following decades, until under the Khedive Ismail Arabic was made the official language of government, with Turkish being confined only to correspondence with the Sublime Porte.[2][3] The term al-turkiyyah alth-thaniya (Arabic: التركية الثانية) meaning 'second Turkiyyah' was used in Sudan to denote the period of Anglo-Egyptian rule (1899-1956).[4][5]
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@bghn4114 Greek sources:
From this point of view, a large part of the 19 Cypriot historiography did not manage to achieve the substantial for the historian, to use a phrase by Eric Hobsbawm, overcoming of passions and political identities, 20⁰ identities that were of course created at the end or even after the Ottoman period. That is to say, that the national political identity of the Greek and the Turk, the national political ensembles of Greeks and Turks, realities of the post-Ottoman period in Cyprus are projected on the past of the 16th century.
Thus, in 1571 Cyprus was conquered by the Ottomans and for the next three hundred and more years was a part of the Ottoman territory. The Greek Cypriot historiography uses for this transition and generally the entire Ottoman period the term Turkish rule a term that lends a national Turkish identity to Ottomans. A big part of traditional historiography refers to a Turkish state,²¹ mentioning a Turkish government, while correspondingly the conquered are included in another national identity, the Greek, which - and perhaps this is more important - at the time history is written, is in conflict with the Turkish.
Already from the end of the 19th century, Greek Cypriot historiography states that during the Turkish rule "the spirit of the inhabitants fell to a pitiful point and poverty and misery and extreme ignorance, and depression of the national morale covered the island".23 The Orthodox on the island are defined by traditional historiography as a political group since "in the vizier's orders the participant in the defence of Famagusta Greek was a term that was generalised for all Greeks on the island". In relation to the population on the island the Turkish rule mentions that "after the occupation of Cyprus by the Turks the census that took place for tax pur poses revealed that the native Cypriot Greeks aged [...] in this population 20.000 30.000 Turks were added".25 It is also established that "the Turkish occupation brought to Cyprus many radical changes. The Turks supported the Greek population on the island in order not to give the opportunity to the peoples of Europe to be interested in the Cypriots […]”.26
And as it began with a national conflict that is how italso ends, since it is mentioned that “while the Turkish conquerors suppressed andpersecuted the Greeks on the island […]”.27
The existence therefore of a politicalnational group is considered given and every analysis of the Ottoman period func-tions in a way to bring to the forefront or reinforce the existence, even under difficultconditions, of such a group. This expressed the stereotyped view that the Cypriots“managed under the protection of the Church to maintain their religion, language,and national conscience as Greeks”.28
Even when relations are examined on differentlevels, even when they refer to the 17th
century, these are characterised as relationsof the “Greeks and the Turks of Cyprus”.29
In the Turkish Cypriot historiography, the same perception is more or less fol-lowed; history is written under the same terms, the national terms but with one sub-stantial difference: The “Turks on the island” 30
are usually referred to as acomplimentary term of the word Ottomans and are placed on the side of the goodoften contrary to the “Greeks, Greek Cypriots” who are on the opposite side. Thesettlement of the “Turks”on the island is interpreted as something that broughtabout positive results for the entire island 31 and the local Ottoman administration isgenerally whitewashed. In short, Turkish Cypriot historiography also accepts theexistence of national groups. The Church of Cyprus expresses again the Greeks of Cyprus and its activities are mainly targeted against the Turks of Cyprus, 32
whilewithout hesitation the actions of the Prelates of 1600 in Cyprus are combined andidentified with the Akritas plan of the period after the independence. 33
The Prelatesare considered to express not only spiritually but also nationally the Orthodox of Cyprus while institutionally the Church of Cyprus is perceived as warring towardsthe local Turkish administration. 34
The Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot histo-riographies are identified when they project the present on the past, a past howeverthat is perceived and interpreted from a very different national point of view.
Michael, M., Kappler, M. and Gavriel, E., 2009. Ottoman Cyprus: A Collection of Studies on History and Culture Wiesbaden: Harrassowitz, pp.14,15.
European sources:
Hamish Scott (2015). The Oxford Handbook of Early Modern European History, 1350–1750: Volume II. p. 612. ISBN 9780191020001."The Ottoman Empire-also known in Europe as the Turkish Empire"
The Europeans called Suleiman “the Magnificent” or “the Great Turk,”34 while the Muslims preferred to characterise him as “Suleiman the Lawgiver” because he harmonized the religious laws of the shâri'a with those of the sultan.
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In fact, Turkic-speaking peoples have played a major role in Iranian history, ruling the country from the eleventh century up to the early twentieth. Even today they represent more than a quarter of Iran's population.
Foltz, R. (2016) Iran in world history. Oxford etc.: Oxford University Press. p.61
Homa Katouzian, "Iranian history and politics", Published by Routledge, 2003. p. 128: "Indeed, since the formation of the Ghaznavids state in the tenth century until the fall of Qajars at the beginning of the twentieth century, most parts of the Iranian cultural regions were ruled by Turkic-speaking dynasties most of the time.
The Azerbaijanis derive in part from a heritage of Turkic rule over Iran, during most of the past 1,000 years. Iran adopted the Shi'a version of Islam under the rule of the Safavid Azerbaijani Turks beginning in 1500. The Turkic Qajar Dynasty (1779–1924) controlled all of present-day Iran and extensive territory in the Caucasus and Central Asia. When Colonel Reza Khan Pahlavi overthrew the Qajars, he promoted Persian language, culture, and identity at the expense of Azeri Turkish.
Zartman, J.K. (2020) Conflict in the modern middle east: An encyclopedia of Civil War, Revolutions, and regime change. Santa Barbara, CA: ABC-CLIO. p.136
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@Orgil. About this period, I asked my father to tell me the history of our family from the time of Yafet Aghlan, which he did, nearly in the following manner: " It is written in the Turkish history, that we are descended from Yafet Aghlan, commonly called (Abu al Atrak) Father of the Turks, son of (the Patriarch,) Japhet, he was the first monarch of the Turks: when his fifth son Aljeh Khan ascended the throne, the all gracious God bestowed on him twin sons, one of which was called Tatar, the other Moghul
Timur. (2013). CHAPTER III. In C. Stewart (Trans.), The Mulfuzat Timury, or, Autobiographical Memoirs of the Moghul Emperor Timur: Written in the Jagtay Turky Language (Cambridge Library Collection - Perspectives from the Royal Asiatic Society, pp. 27-31). Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. doi:10.1017/CBO9781139507325.015
Tīmūr’s identity as a Turk was not lim- ited only to his understanding of himself, his skills, and his heritage. All the people that he encountered, whether in the marketplace or at the royal palace, immediately recognized him as a Türk-bacha , a Turk-boy, presumably for his attire and perhaps for his looks. Possibly, he represented to them an arche- typal nomad. Whatever the reason, they still found it the most convenient and intuitive manner to address him, not knowing his name.
Sela, R. (2011). Youth. In The Legendary Biographies of Tamerlane: Islam and Heroic Apocrypha in Central Asia(Cambridge Studies in Islamic Civilization, pp. 76-91). Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. doi:10.1017/CBO9780511977343.006
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Khalakhaljid Sands was a battle between Genghis Khan, then known as Temüjin, and the forces of Toghrul, khan of the Kereit. The Kereit elites, deeply suspicious of Temüjin's diplomatic overtures to Toghrul, had convinced their leader to turn on his vassal. Warned by two herdsmen, Temüjin had escaped a planned ambush, but was pursued by a larger force. His Mongol allies came to his aid at the Khalakhaljid Sands, but they were comprehensively defeated. Following the battle, in which Temüjin's 17-year-old son Ögedei was severely wounded, Temüjin swore the Baljuna Covenant with his companions.
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The dominant reference point in religious warfare in the fifteenth and early sixteenth centuries was the Turk, and this chapter argues that ‘Turkishness’ was a multifaceted and changing identity. For many the essential enemy was the Ottoman Turks, whose aggression and brutality were widely disseminated. Their activities and plans were subjected to numerous prophetic and apocalyptic readings. Many contemporaries described their Christian opponents as Turks or ‘worse than Turks’, a practice that demonstrated both the potency of the Turkish image and the internal divisions which plagued the Christian world. For Erasmus and other moral reformers the Turk resided within each Christian, and Christian sinfulness was fully as fatal to the common defence of Europe as political rivalries. It was the achievement of Thomas More to synthesize these three images in a number of works that he wrote in the late 1520s and early 1530s.
Housley, Norman, 'The Three Turks', Religious Warfare in Europe 1400-1536 (Oxford, 2008; online edn, Oxford Academic, 1 Jan. 2010),
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@larshofler8298 The Gaoche are probably remnants of the ancient Red Di. Initially they had been called Dili. Northerners take them as Chile. Chinese take them as Gaoche Dingling. Their language, in brief, and Xiongnu [language] are the same yet occasionally there are small differences. Or one may say that they [Gaoche] are the junior relatives[18] of the Xiongnu in former times.
The Gaoche migrate in search of grass and water. They dress in skins and eat meat. Their cattle and sheep are just like those of the Rouran, but the wheel of their carts are high and have very many spokes.
— Weishu, 103
Weishu "vol. 103 section Gāochē" text: 高車，蓋古赤狄之餘種也，初號為狄歷，北方以為勑勒，諸夏以為高車、丁零。其語略與匈奴同而時有小異，或云其先匈奴之甥也。其種有狄氏、袁紇氏、斛律氏、解批氏、護骨氏、異奇斤氏。" transl. "Gaoche, probably remnant stocks of the ancient Red Di. Initially they had been called Dili, in the North they are considered Chile, the various Xia(i.e. Chinese) consider them Gaoche Dingling / Dingling with High-Carts. Their language and the Xiongnu's are similar though there are small differences. Or one may say they were sons-in-laws / sororal nephews of their Xiongnu predecessors. Their tribes are Di, Yuanhe, Hulu, Jiepi, Hugu, Yiqijin."
The predecessors of Huihe were Xiongnu. Because, customarily, they ride high-wheeled carts. They were also called Gaoche during the Yuan Wei times, or also called Chile, mistakenly rendered as Tiele.
— Xin Tangshu, 232
Weishu, vol. 103 txt: "高車，[...] 其語略與匈奴同而時有小異，或云其先匈奴之甥也", tr: "The Gaoju, [...] their language and the Xiongnu's are similar though differ a little; or to say it differently, they are the sororal nephews/sons-in-laws of the Xiongnu”
According to the Book of Wei, the Yuebans' language and customs were the same as the Gaoche, who were Turkic speakers. Yuebans(Weak Xiongnu) cut their hair and trimmed their ghee-smeared, sun-dried, glossy eyebrows evenly, and washed before meals three times everyday.
Weishu, Vol. 102 "其風俗言語與高車同，而其人清潔於胡。俗剪髮齊眉，以醍醐塗之，昱昱然光澤，日三澡漱，然後飲食。"
Book of Wei. Vol. 102. "悅般國，在烏孫西北，去代一萬九百三十里。其先，匈奴北單于之部落也。" Tr. "Yueban State is to the northwest of Wusun, at a distant of 10,930 lĭ from Dai. It formerly [was] the Northern Xiongnu chanyu's tribe."
Kyzlasov, L . R. (1 January 1996). "Northern Nomads". In Litvinsky, B. A. (ed.). History of Civilizations of Central Asia: The crossroads of civilizations, A.D. 250 to 750. UNESCO. pp. 310–320. ISBN 9231032119.
Chinese sources link the Tiele people and Ashina to the Xiongnu, According to the Book of Zhou and the History of the Northern Dynasties, the Ashina clan was a component of the Xiongnu confederation.
Linghu Defen et al., Book of Zhou, Vol. 50. (in Chinese)
Li Yanshou (李延寿), History of the Northern Dynasties, Vol. 99. (in Chinese)
Uyghur Khagans claimed descent from the Xiongnu (according to Chinese history Weishu, the founder of the Uyghur Khaganate was descended from a Xiongnu ruler).
Peter B. Golden (1992). "Chapter VI – The Uyğur Qağante (742–840)". An Introduction to the History of the Turkic Peoples: Ethnogenesis and State-Formation in Medieval and Early Modern Eurasia and the Middle East. p. 155. ISBN 978-3-447-03274-2.
Both the 7th-century Chinese History of the Northern Dynasties and the Book of Zhou, an inscription in the Sogdian language, report the Göktürks to be a subgroup of the Xiongnu.
Craig Benjamin (2007, 49), In: Hyun Jin Kim, The Huns, Rome and the Birth of Europe. Cambridge University Press. 2013. page 176.
History of Northern Dynasties, vol. 99
Book of Zhou, vol. 50
Tiele are originally Xiongnu's splinter stocks. As Tujue are strong and prosperous, all Tiele districts (郡) are divided and scattered, the masses gradually dwindled and weakened. Until the beginning of Wude [era], there have been Xueyantuo, Qibi, Huihe, Dubo, Guligan, Duolange, Pugu, Bayegu, Tongluo, Hun, Sijie, Huxue, Xijie, Adie, Baixi, etc. scattered in the northern wastelands.
— Jiu Tangshu, 199, lower
New Book of Tang, vol. 215 upper. "突厥阿史那氏, 蓋古匈奴北部也." "The Ashina family of the Turk probably were the northern tribes of the ancient Xiongnu." translated by Xu (2005)
Old Book of Tang Vol. 199 lower "鐵勒，本匈奴別種" tr. "Tiele, originally a splinter race from Xiongnu"
Suishu, Vol. 84 "鐵勒之先，匈奴之苗裔也" tr. "Tiele's predecessors are Xiongnu's descendants."
Linghu Defen et al., Book of Zhou, Vol. 50. (in Chinese)
Li Yanshou (李延寿), History of the Northern Dynasties, Vol. 99. (in Chinese)
舊五代史 Jiu Wudai Shi, Chapter 138. Original text: 回鶻，其先匈奴之種也。後魏時，號爲鐵勒，亦名回紇。唐元和四年，本國可汗遣使上言，改爲回鶻，義取迴旋搏擊，如鶻之迅捷也。 Translation: Hui Hu [Uyghur], originally of Xiongnu stock. During Later Wei, they were called Tiele. They were also called Hui He. In the fourth year of the Yuanhe era, the Khan of their country sent an envoy to submit a request, and the name was changed to Hui Hu. It takes its meaning from turning round to strike rapidly like a falcon.
The forebears of the Tiele belonged to those Xiongnu descendants, having the largest divisions of tribes. They occupied the valleys, and were scattered across the vast region west of the Western Sea [Black Sea]
At the area north of the Duluo River, are the Bugu (僕骨), Tongluo (同羅), Weihe (韋紇),[17] Bayegu (拔也古), Fuluo (覆羅), which were all called Sijin (Irkin). Other tribes such as Mengchen (蒙陳), Turuhe (吐如紇), Sijie (斯結),[a] Hun (渾), Hu (斛), Xue (薛) (or Huxue) and so forth, also dwelled in this area. They had a 20,000 strong invincible army.
[...]
The names of these tribes differ, but all of them can be classified as Tiele. The Tiele do not have a master, but are subjected to the both Eastern and Western Tujue (Göktürks) respectively. They don't have a permanent residence, and move with the changes of grass and water. Their main characteristics are, firstly, they possessed great ferocity, and yet showed tolerance; secondly, they were good riders and archers; and thirdly, they showed greed without restraint, for they often made their living by looting. The tribes toward the west were more cultivated, for they bred cattle and sheep, but fewer horses. Since the Tujue had established a state, they were recruited as the auxiliary of empire and conquered both east and westward, annexing all of the northern regional lands.
The customs of the Tiele and Tujue are not much different. However, a man of the Tiele lives in his wife's home after marriage and will not return to his own home with his wife until the birth of a child. In addition, the Tiele also bury their dead under the ground.
— Suishu, 84
Gaoju, apparently, are the remaining branch of the ancient Chidi. Originally they were called "Dili", in the north they are called "Chile", and in China – "Gaoju Dinglings", i.e. High Carts Dinglings. Their language is generally similar to the Xiongnu, but sometimes there are small differences.
— Book of Wei
Wei Shou (魏收). Book of Wei (History of Northern Wei Dynasty). Peking, Bo-na, 1958, pp. 26a–26b
translation by Taskin V.S., "Materials on history of nomadic tribes in China 3rd–5th cc", Issue 2 "Jie", "Science", Moscow, 1990, p. 168, Note 158, ISBN 5-02-016543-3
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@larshofler8298 Bulgars, Huns, Hephthalites, Kidarites, Kyrgyz, Dingling, Tiele, Onogurs, Utigurs, Kutrigurs, Sabirs, Avars, Xiongnu, Gaoju, Yueban were all ancient Turkic peoples but you are saying there were no Turkic peoples before medieval times🤣🤣🤣
According to the Book of Wei, the Yuebans' language and customs were the same as the Gaoche, who were Turkic speakers. Yuebans cut their hair and trimmed their ghee-smeared, sun-dried, glossy eyebrows evenly, and washed before meals three times every day.[18][19]
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