Comments by "PAPAZA TAKLA ATTIRAN İMAM" (@papazataklaattiranimam) on "Bellum et Historia"
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No amount of reason will shake modern Greek faith in the Hellenic ethnicity of the ancient Macedonians and their kings. It is more than a political prefer ence: many Greeks see it as a necessity, despite the inconclusive ancient evidence on the nationality of the Macedonians. But recent scholarship has begun to provide a response to old Greek arguments. There is an insufficient amount of evidence-the existence of Greek inscriptions in the kingdom of the Macedonians notwithstand ing-to know what the native language or dialect was. E.g., several dialects of Greek were used in ancient Macedonia, but what was the Macedonian dialect? The evidence of ancient writers suggests that Greek and Macedonian were mutually unintelligible languages in the court of Alexander the Great. Moreover, if contemporary or his torical opinion from antiquity means anything, the ancient world from the fourth century B.C. into the early Hellenistic period-roughly the age of Philip and Alexan der-believed that the Greeks and Macedonians were different peoples. None of which, incidentally, denies that the Macedonians, at least in their court and gentry, were quite highly hellenized, as recent archaeology has clearly shown. See E. Badian, "Greeks and Macedonians," Macedonia and Greece in Late Classical and Early Hellenis tic Times, Studies in the History of Art 10, ed. B. Barr-Sharrar and E. N. Borza (Wash ington, D.C., 1982). 33-51: Eugene N. Borza, In the Shadow of Olympus: The Emergence of Macedon, rev. ed. (Princeton, 1992), ch. 4 and pp. 305-6; id., "Athenians, Mace donians, and the Origins of the Macedonian Royal House," in Studies in Attic Epigra phy, History, and Topography Presented to Eugene Vanderpool, Hesperia suppl. 19 (1982). 713: id., "Ethnicity and Cultural Policy at Alexander's Court." AncW 23 (1992):
1999. The eye expanded. Berkeley, Calif.: University of California Press, p.263.
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No amount of reason will shake modern Greek faith in the Hellenic ethnicity of the ancient Macedonians and their kings. It is more than a political prefer ence: many Greeks see it as a necessity, despite the inconclusive ancient evidence on the nationality of the Macedonians. But recent scholarship has begun to provide a response to old Greek arguments. There is an insufficient amount of evidence-the existence of Greek inscriptions in the kingdom of the Macedonians notwithstand ing-to know what the native language or dialect was. E.g., several dialects of Greek were used in ancient Macedonia, but what was the Macedonian dialect? The evidence of ancient writers suggests that Greek and Macedonian were mutually unintelligible languages in the court of Alexander the Great. Moreover, if contemporary or his torical opinion from antiquity means anything, the ancient world from the fourth century B.C. into the early Hellenistic period-roughly the age of Philip and Alexan der-believed that the Greeks and Macedonians were different peoples. None of which, incidentally, denies that the Macedonians, at least in their court and gentry, were quite highly hellenized, as recent archaeology has clearly shown. See E. Badian, "Greeks and Macedonians," Macedonia and Greece in Late Classical and Early Hellenis tic Times, Studies in the History of Art 10, ed. B. Barr-Sharrar and E. N. Borza (Wash ington, D.C., 1982). 33-51: Eugene N. Borza, In the Shadow of Olympus: The Emergence of Macedon, rev. ed. (Princeton, 1992), ch. 4 and pp. 305-6; id., "Athenians, Mace donians, and the Origins of the Macedonian Royal House," in Studies in Attic Epigra phy, History, and Topography Presented to Eugene Vanderpool, Hesperia suppl. 19 (1982). 713: id., "Ethnicity and Cultural Policy at Alexander's Court." AncW 23 (1992):
1999. The eye expanded. Berkeley, Calif.: University of California Press, p.263.
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Although the Macedonians used Greek names, worshipped Greek gods, adopted certain Greek customs, and perhaps spoke an Aeolic dialect of Greek, they maintained a separate ethnic identity." Their regional affiliations, political loyalty to local kings, settlement patterns (rural rather than urban), etc. distinguished them from the polis culture of the Greeks. Although in the classical period some Macedonians spoke Greek that their southern neighbors understood, their language was probably unintelligible to most Greeks. Unfortunately, no literary works in the Macedonian language have survived to adequately compare the written word with that of the Greeks. Consequently, despite a probable familial connection, it remains uncertain how closely the Greek and Macedonian language were related."
Philip II of Macedon: A New Age. Begins Paperback – August 13, 2019 by Mark Luttenberger (Author)
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The tribe of Macedones or ruling family which took over the central plain was known, according to later sources, as Argeadae. The Argeadae were thought to have originated in Orestis, and despite the later power struggles between the ruling monarchy of Lower Macedonia and the tribes of Upper Macedonia, each with their own ruling families, they were considered "kin" due to their common origin in the western mountains and their common language, common haircut, short cloak, and other customs, which would have included religious cults, stock herding and -breeding, hunting, and horsemanship. All written records so far uncovered are in forms of Greek, and by the mid fourth century it appears the Argead royal court preferred spoken Greek as its official language, though there are also references to a "Macedonian" (makedonisti) language or dialect, which predominated within the army and was unintelligible to Greek speakers from the southern part of the peninsula.
Ancient Macedonia 1st Edition by Carol J. King (Author) p.12
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@elenafoka6506 The tribe of Macedones or ruling family which took over the central plain was known, according to later sources, as Argeadae. The Argeadae were thought to have originated in Orestis, and despite the later power struggles between the ruling monarchy of Lower Macedonia and the tribes of Upper Macedonia, each with their own ruling families, they were considered "kin" due to their common origin in the western mountains and their common language, common haircut, short cloak, and other customs, which would have included religious cults, stock herding and -breeding, hunting, and horsemanship. All written records so far uncovered are in forms of Greek, and by the mid fourth century it appears the Argead royal court preferred spoken Greek as its official language, though there are also references to a "Macedonian" (makedonisti) language or dialect, which predominated within the army and was unintelligible to Greek speakers from the southern part of the peninsula.
Ancient Macedonia 1st Edition by Carol J. King (Author) p.12
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@elenafoka6506 No amount of reason will shake modern Greek faith in the Hellenic ethnicity of the ancient Macedonians and their kings. It is more than a political prefer ence: many Greeks see it as a necessity, despite the inconclusive ancient evidence on the nationality of the Macedonians. But recent scholarship has begun to provide a response to old Greek arguments. There is an insufficient amount of evidence-the existence of Greek inscriptions in the kingdom of the Macedonians notwithstand ing-to know what the native language or dialect was. E.g., several dialects of Greek were used in ancient Macedonia, but what was the Macedonian dialect? The evidence of ancient writers suggests that Greek and Macedonian were mutually unintelligible languages in the court of Alexander the Great. Moreover, if contemporary or his torical opinion from antiquity means anything, the ancient world from the fourth century B.C. into the early Hellenistic period-roughly the age of Philip and Alexan der-believed that the Greeks and Macedonians were different peoples. None of which, incidentally, denies that the Macedonians, at least in their court and gentry, were quite highly hellenized, as recent archaeology has clearly shown. See E. Badian, "Greeks and Macedonians," Macedonia and Greece in Late Classical and Early Hellenis tic Times, Studies in the History of Art 10, ed. B. Barr-Sharrar and E. N. Borza (Wash ington, D.C., 1982). 33-51: Eugene N. Borza, In the Shadow of Olympus: The Emergence of Macedon, rev. ed. (Princeton, 1992), ch. 4 and pp. 305-6; id., "Athenians, Mace donians, and the Origins of the Macedonian Royal House," in Studies in Attic Epigra phy, History, and Topography Presented to Eugene Vanderpool, Hesperia suppl. 19 (1982). 713: id., "Ethnicity and Cultural Policy at Alexander's Court." AncW 23 (1992):
1999. The eye expanded. Berkeley, Calif.: University of California Press, p.263.
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@panagiotis7946 Although the Macedonians used Greek names, worshipped Greek gods, adopted certain Greek customs, and perhaps spoke an Aeolic dialect of Greek, they maintained a separate ethnic identity." Their regional affiliations, political loyalty to local kings, settlement patterns (rural rather than urban), etc. distinguished them from the polis culture of the Greeks. Although in the classical period some Macedonians spoke Greek that their southern neighbors understood, their language was probably unintelligible to most Greeks. Unfortunately, no literary works in the Macedonian language have survived to adequately compare the written word with that of the Greeks. Consequently, despite a probable familial connection, it remains uncertain how closely the Greek and Macedonian language were related."
Philip II of Macedon: A New Age. Begins Paperback – August 13, 2019 by Mark Luttenberger (Author)
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@ektorpolykandriotis635 The tribe of Macedones or ruling family which took over the central plain was known, according to later sources, as Argeadae. The Argeadae were thought to have originated in Orestis, and despite the later power struggles between the ruling monarchy of Lower Macedonia and the tribes of Upper Macedonia, each with their own ruling families, they were considered "kin" due to their common origin in the western mountains and their common language, common haircut, short cloak, and other customs, which would have included religious cults, stock herding and -breeding, hunting, and horsemanship. All written records so far uncovered are in forms of Greek, and by the mid fourth century it appears the Argead royal court preferred spoken Greek as its official language, though there are also references to a "Macedonian" (makedonisti) language or dialect, which predominated within the army and was unintelligible to Greek speakers from the southern part of the peninsula.
Ancient Macedonia 1st Edition by Carol J. King (Author) p.12
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