Comments by "J Drake1994" (@JDrakeify) on "Can Jeremy Corbyn unite the Labour party? | Owen Jones goes to Labour Conference 2016" video.

  1. BritishCommentWriter 1979 is a good date, because it is roughly the time that wages began stagnating, whilst incomes for the rich sky rocketed. Ordinary people would do far better without race to the bottom philosophy of Tories and other right wing parties (and followed by centrist social democrats), the evidence speaks for itself. Look at the mess the world is in currently.
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  2. defence is, but the consensus on public spending within Labour has shifted considerably in the past year. Owen Smith was against austerity in his campaign, I heard Chukka Ummuna say he agreed with that policy just a few days ago. Even Stephen Crabb and Sajid Javid backed plans to borrow to invest during the Tory leadership contest. Investment instead of cuts is now a centrist position, backed up by institutions like the IMF and the OECD.
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  3. Nathan Stirling I am agreeing with you on defence, not defending Corbyn, although consensus on that issue looks a little closer after the poorly handled trident announcement recently. On borrowing, you seem a little confused when you say: "Labour's borrowing with its fantasy ideas that the rich will stay and pay for them is nothing more than teenager idealism on economics." The rich wont pay for borrowing, that goes against the whole concept of borrowing. You seem to be referring to taxation, where you seem to have little idea about what Labour's policy actually is. They arent talking about going back to seventies level taxation, in fact Corbyn's tax policy is similar to that of Britain under New Labour and other western countries now. He favours a 50p top rate of tax (which Brown introduced) and so far his commitments to raising corporation tax have not exceeded the level it was at before 2010, or the level it stands at in other countries, like Germany, certainly way off the 40% seen in the US. It is a similar story for capital gains tax. The only other commitment in that area I can think of is too a 'Robin Hood Tax' on financial transactions, which was only suggested by McDonnell if it could gain Europe wide agreement, which Osborne blocked. Most of the rest of it is about making sure people pay their taxes. Labour's current policy on tax is only radical in the sense that it turns back the tide of 35 years of tax cuts for the wealthy with what are quite modest rises. That is more than a sensible idea given that the idea that tax cuts for the rich would enable wealth to trickle down is an idea that is clearly not working, as studies from institutions like the IMF show, as well as any glance at the current state of the western world.
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  4. A political strategy based on hoping people suddenly realize that everything they have been told is wrong doesn't sound like a realistic vote winner, the onus is on both sides of the party to come together and up their game, the media will always be hostile.
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  5. he has won internal party elections and elections taking place in Labour heartlands that are fronted by other people. Meanwhile, his standings in the polls has been dire even at a time when the Tories were ripping themselves apart. He has already hit a record low in his personal approval ratings for an opposition leader, less than a year into his time at the top. And bare in mind that most of these polls still overstate Labours support. I was a Corbyn supporter once, and I am still sympathetic to him. I too wish people will look at the facts, which show he is highly unlikely to win. At the moment, everyone just seems to be telling themselves what they want to be the case, rather than the truth, and that is no way to move our party forward.
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  6. the evidence says that immigrants contribute an awful lot to our economy themselves. More than they take out, in fact. So in a sense already have that money, Corbyn is suggesting that the benefits they bring be put to good use in helping parts of the country most effected by immigration to adapt.
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  7. We tried that last time. Still ended up with Blair, Brown, Mandelson and New Labour. Why would it be any different now?
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  8. tam dayell There is a small negative impact that migration has on wages in certain areas of the economy. In others it actually boosts them. But the relatively small drag on wages would likely be dwarfed by loss of 4% of our GDP that leaving the Single Market would entail, according to the IFS.And that is before we get to the loss of funds from the treasury due to the money that migrants bring in. In such circumstances, any gain in wages would be offset by the effect on the economy, as well as the public finances, which would entail either tax rises, or cuts to public services. Either way, the working man has effectively lost money from leaving the EU. So surely it makes sense to try and better control the economic system that allows undercutting of wages to take place? If it isn't a Polish worker bringing your wages down, it will be a British person who can afford to work for money that you cannot. It makes no sense to view immigrants as the problem, rather than employers that perpetuate the entire system to begin with. If we do that, we can both have a strong economy, and stronger wages. That is the point that Corbyn has been making. Why am I a traitor for advocating what is best for my country's economy? I don't understand why the Brexiteer crowd seem to think they own patriotism just because they would rather blame migrants whilst turning a blind eye to the systemic problems caused by those employers who are keen on perpetuating the race to the bottom.
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  9. tam dayell "easy to say when its not your wages, hgv went from 14 quid to min wage after we allowed poles in." It is not me saying it, it is fullfact. https://fullfact.org/immigration/immigration-and-jobs-labour-market-effects-immigration/ "you expect voters to care ? nobody cared when regions where cast adrift so this is just going to even out the pain, and about time too. maybe the london set will be taught a lesson they wont forget in a hurry." They will care when they lose even more when their incomes are cut even further by the hit the economy takes when we leave the single market. Those parts of the world you refer to were cast adrift not by immigration, most of that goes to London. This all began over a decade before freedom of movement even existed, when deindustrialization was taking place. Immigration was relatively low for several decades, and that didn't stop wages stagnating and income inequality sky rocketing. Today, most of those places aren't seeing a great deal of immigration either. Most of UKIP's target seats at the last election had a below average level of migrants living there, and some places, like the North East, where they did particularly well, are actually losing people. So immigration is clearly not nearly the problem you pretend it is in those places. "forget it, the 23rd knifed that. hard brexit and stuff the 4 freedoms. if anyone can tell me why they linked free movement along with free trade then i am all ears, no where else does this but in the retarded EU." No it didn't. People voted for Brexit, but they didn't vote for what kind of Brexit we were going to have. There is no mandate for it. "even if this was to happen, they still just pay the min wage, its a bit late if you used to get payed more than that, and if you stop wages being squeezed (you cant) then the next thing would be even worse terms and conditions in any contract you signed." Then raise the minimum wage to a living wage, surely? If people can afford to work for the minimum wage, then that undermines the whole basis of undercutting. I am on the minimum wage right now, as it happens, and I am completely British. People will still be willing to work for that amount no matter what their nationality. "immigrants facilitate a race to the bottom, where ever that may be. the fact that your not willing to accept any of this is why you are a traitor, putting others before your own country men. not to worry though TM knows that if she does not hard brexit she also will be toast. arron banks's mooted new party will put labour and the torys on there knees in traditional heart lands. May will deliver on brexit, you know it, i know it and above all else she knows it." The race to the bottom is a phenomenon that applies not only to wages, but other things like workplace rights, taxes, and environmental regulation, which migrants have nothing to do with. The only way the race to the bottom can be addressed is through international cooperation, so that selfish businesses and individuals have nowhere to run. This whole 'Britain First' strategy is one we have been pursuing for decades now in an economic sense, and it has created many of the problems we see today. More of it will just perpetuate the race to the bottom, not end it. May will deliver Brexit, I doubt it will be the one you want. She has just as many soft brexiteers as hard brexiteers in her party, she is caught between the two, and she knows that leaving the single market would significantly harm our economy. Prepare to crank up the betrayed country narrative that you so love.
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  10. or a way for them to make them feel like they have nothing to lose, and spend the rest of the Parliament refusing to cooperate with Corbyn even more than they already have. That is if they don't form their own party first. Deselection doesn't work in creating a permanently left wing PLP. We know because we had it before, in a period where Blair, Brown, and Mandelson found there way into Parliament.10 years later, they were architects of New Labour. Deselection is just a distraction that will sink Labour further into infighting with nothing to show for it. As Thatcher showed us, the only way to bring your party round (and the other ones too) to a more radical way of thinking is to win elections on that platform.
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  11. Around one hundred of those backed Owen Smith recently, whose platform could not possibly considered 'closet Tory'. I'd much prefer to go after the actual Tories, thanks very much.
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  12. Jason Gunn-Davis Smith's platform was anti austerity, in fact, aside from on trident (which Corbyn has now abandoned trying to scrap) there was very little difference between their policies. So your going to have explain how precisely that makes him a Red Tory.
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  13. BritishCommentWriter The workers are hardly calling the shots in those countries, in places like Spain and Greece large sections of them are unemployed.
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  14. David Parry this was all before the coup, at a time when Labour was probably more united than the Tories.
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  15. David Parry Corbyn hit the all time low for a leader of the opposition in February, was the coup going on then?
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  16. bionicbert You have not done anything to prove my evidence wrong. Look, I like Corbyn and what he stands for, but it infuriates me sometimes how the left will never see its own faults and blame everything on the media. Sure they are unfair, but if they are the reason why the left never wins power, then there would never be any point in pursuing a left wing platform in the first place. Clearly, Corbyn and co have their own inadequacies to answer for.
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