Comments by "Asbest" (@asbest2092) on "Second Thought"
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@wargames People lived poor all the time the ussr existed. The ussr's history is a huge thing so I'll leave 20-50s. You may say(and it won't be the truth but ok) 20-50s were poor because of the wars and it's normal to be poor while it's a war and some time after it. Let's just take 60-80s, peaceful decades. You should be able to show some results when you have decades of peace. And how is the period in the soviet history called? Right(I think you didn't know it but ok) the era of stagnation. The ussr stagnated during 60-80s. People didn't have freedom of speech, they didn't have democracy, they didn't have a right to believe in anything but comunism(nor religions nor idiologies), you didn't have a right not to work, you didn't have a right for business, half of the world's literature was banned(it's not a ban capitalist countries have that means you just can't distribute the book, it's comunist ban that means you go to jail if you have a banned book), you didn't have a right to write your own books if you are not a sertified by the government writer etc, etc.
A lot of restrictions. But maybe people got something for them? Yes you refuse a loooooot of rights but you take some huge prosperity instead? Not at all! You want to buy meat? Wow you can't, the country just doesn't have it, wait for a special day and then, after an hour long queue, you will get some fat with meat. You want to buy buckwheat? Wow you can't! Mandarines, bananas? Only when it's the new year! Shoes and clothes were of awful quality, people laughed at it and the dream of any woman was to get some fabrics from abroad so they can make some decent clothes. Work conditions were unsafe and no one cared about it, what will you do, complain? To the government on government?) Well good luck. Tons of manufacturing defects and buildings delays. The government said they would make a building after 4 years? Well it meant after 10 it will be finally done.
If you wanted to buy a car in the ussr wow go to the queue! Queue, again, you have to see this word all the time when you learn about the country. Well, you want to buy a car, you stay in a queue for 2-3 years and after it you finally get the right to buy your car) Fantastic. I can also add things that you had to pay fees for not having children and that if you want to stay in a queue for an apartment your family must have a certain size or they won't let you to the queue(and sure, the apartment won't be yours, the government takes it back after your death of if you are fired) but I already said a lot.
And I haven't even approach the most tasty part. After the stagnation, the planned economy had started the crisis of 80-90s.
Now you not just have to stay an hour to buy yourself some meat you have to stay 2 hours in a queue to buy 2 loaves of bread(they wouldn't give more to one person). The ussr, because of the planned economy, couldn't even feed itself. When it was 1970 the country spend ~33% of all its gold in storages just to buy grain. The ussr got lucky after the boom of oil prices, then it could pay for grain it couldn't make itself(ridiculous, an enormous country can't even grow enough grain to feed itself) by using the money it earned from selling oil. The ussr's goods were of awful quality no one wanted to buy them(also half of the ussr's technologies were stolen copies), the only thing that let the ussr to stay afloat was oil prices. Then they fell and the crisis begun(it should start way earlier and the government did reforms in late 60s to prevent the crisis, almost all of the reforms were cancelled because they contradicted the planned economy) But a huge leap of oil prices in early 70s saved the scoop). So, ok, back to the people. You can't buy bread, you can't buy meat, you can't buy other sorts of grains, you can't buy fruits, you can't buy fish, wow you are pathetic and you also have no rights in your country. And millions of people rallied against comunism and the comunist party. The government had started reforms in 85(started to construct them in 83d) but the root of all problems was in the planned economy and to refuse the planned economy was = to refuse comunism and the party didn't want it, comunism dragged the country with it to its grave.
Ultra ineffective system that made people starve and produced goods of disgusting quality, everybody hated it and its restrictions of freedom, it made the country collapse and tens millions die(if we start to count since the coup)
It deserves nothing but despise.
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@AlexAlex-ti9ei даже не "не смогло", а "не хотело". Остановить кризис вызванный плановой экономикой мог только переход к рынку, но переход к рынку означал отказ от комунизма!
Чтобы преодолеть кризис который начался из за плановой экономики, нужно было отказаться от плановой экономики, и это то чего правительство избегало всеми возможными способами. Надо было разрешить свободное предпринимательство, надо было поднять цены, надо было снизить расходы на армию, надо было понизить дотации марионеткам, надо было лишние деньги из не надёжных источников(нефть) направлять на накопления, а не на "мега проекты" которые так никогда и не были закончены, да и по факту не могли быть закончены. Это всё то что дало бы шанс преодолеть кризис и всё то чего комунисты не хотели ни в коем случае допускать. Из за них страна и распалась. Плановая экономика не жизнеспособна. (как будто лишь один кризис 80-90-ых был плохой, так нет, что было до 80-ых? Эра застоя! Ещё одна черта плановой экономики, пока застой не перешёл в кризис).
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@mareknovotny5441 no, it's more simple. Planned economy isn't made to sustain living at all. The ussr's economy wasn't even in top 10, what are you talking about? The usa, kanada, japan, both germanies, france, yugoslavia, britain, denmark, finland, south korea etc. You want to say the ussr was richer than them? It was way poorer than any of these countries, count them, the ussr wasn't even in top 10, it was poorer than any of those. I don't like people who talk about history and economics when they know nothing about it.
The best index of what the planned economy worth is that the ussr had collapsed because of it. This fact alone is enough to conclude was planned economy good or bad.
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