Comments by "Persona" (@ArawnOfAnnwn) on "Finland and Sweden consider NATO membership" video.

Has Russia invaded Finland recently? Or Sweden? It's respected the status quo wrt both countries for the entire Cold War and beyond. It's NATO that's expanded in recent years. It wasn't supposed to, but it did so anyway. It expanded even WITHOUT any Russian military action btw, as the expansion precedes Crimea or Georgia or Ukraine. And no, countries can't join just cos they might want to - NATO has to let them in. Now they're putting their foot down. The alternative is to do nothing, and watch their position steadily dwindle.
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@xway2 Has Russia invaded Finland recently? Or Sweden? It's respected the status quo wrt both countries for the entire Cold War and beyond. It's NATO that's expanded in recent years. It wasn't supposed to, but it did so anyway. It expanded even WITHOUT any Russian military action btw, as the expansion precedes Crimea or Georgia or Ukraine. And no, countries can't join just cos they might want to - NATO has to let them in. Now they're putting their foot down. The alternative is to do nothing, and watch their position steadily dwindle.
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@maghambor The problem with NATO is that the US leads it. NATO without the US may not pose a threat to Russia, but NATO with the US puts American forces far closer to Russia than Russian forces are to the US. America's position is far superior to Russia's. Or, put another way, you might have had a point had Canada and Mexico been Russian allies and hosting Russian military forces against the US. But they aren't. When tiny little Cuba did that, America flipped out lol!
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@DivusMagus It kinda is, since NATO has nukes close to Russia's borders. Also, how about Cuba being a Chinese ally AND hosting Chinese military forces and missiles on it? Even if the missiles are non-nuclear. Still think the US wouldn't care?
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NATO is literally an anti-Russian alliance. They absolutely have to regard it as a threat. As for Finland and Sweden, it's worth noting that Russia has respected the peace with them, as long as they stayed out of NATO. NATO is their concern, and they won't give up that concern lightly. As even the video ends with, all that's needed for Finland and Sweden is to renew a treaty with Russia. It likely won't even include any new terms, merely a reassurance. Cos Russia is happy with the current situation up north, just not elsewhere.
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@ythunderboy8694 Because Russia won't tolerate any American forces anywhere near its borders. I mean, you're free to accept them if you wish, but Russia will simply react accordingly. If you want to increase the likelihood of war, go ahead.
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Has Russia invaded Finland recently? Or Sweden? It's respected the status quo wrt both countries for the entire Cold War and beyond. It's NATO that's expanded in recent years. It wasn't supposed to, but it did so anyway. It expanded even WITHOUT any Russian military action btw, as the expansion precedes Crimea or Georgia or Ukraine. And no, countries can't join just cos they might want to - NATO has to let them in. Now they're putting their foot down. The alternative is to do nothing, and watch their position steadily dwindle.
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@xway2 No country can join NATO of their own accord. NATO has to accept them. And NATO was expected to halt its eastward expansion. It didn't.
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The problem with NATO is that the US leads it. NATO without the US may not pose a threat to Russia, but NATO with the US puts American forces far closer to Russia than Russian forces are to the US. Your argument only holds water in terms of the reciprocal positions of Russia with Europe, not Russia with America. America's position is far superior to Russia's, which is unbalanced.
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Or, put another way, you might have had a point had Canada and Mexico been Russian allies and hosting Russian military forces against the US. But they aren't. When tiny little Cuba did that, America flipped out lol! The US is far too secure compared to Russia.
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Has Russia invaded Finland recently? Or Sweden? It's respected the status quo wrt both countries for the entire Cold War and beyond. It's NATO that's expanded in recent years. It wasn't supposed to, but it did so anyway. It expanded even WITHOUT any Russian military action btw, as the expansion precedes Crimea or Georgia or Ukraine. And no, countries can't join just cos they might want to - NATO has to let them in. Now they're putting their foot down. The alternative is to do nothing, and watch their position steadily dwindle.
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@dain6250 You're right, NATO =/= USA. Rather NATO is just one extension of the USA, which also has operations beyond that. But that hardly matters lol, cos they still represent an arm of American global hegemony. Specifically the part of it that matters to Russia. The other parts matter to Latin America, the ME and the Asia Pacific, but NATO handles Europe.
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@dain6250 It's not a surprise that they wanted to join NATO, what was expected by Russia was that NATO would decline. It was meant to not expand further east. It didn't live up to that expectation. Also this isn't really about them and you know it. You're deliberately ignoring the elephant in the room - America. NATO isn't a concern because of them, it's a concern because of the US. NATO puts American forces far closer to Russia than Russian forces are to the US. How do you think the US would react if Russia somehow had military forces planted in Canada and Mexico (with their permission ofc)? When tiny little Cuba did that, the US flipped out. Russia is simply done with letting the US get any closer to its borders. To stay silent is to quietly let their position get worse.
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@dain6250 Lol, when America isn't happy with how NATO operates, it just goes to war on its own terms, and often drags NATO into it. Even if said war faces widespread international condemnation, they still do it AND get away with it. Whatever claims NATO might make about how restrained it might be mean nothing as long as America leads it, and America remains the most trigger-happy nation in modern history (yes, even more than Russia).
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NATO expansion precedes any Russian annexations. It's been happening regardless. They're simply done with putting up with it.
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@jeffreyokun2355 In terms of land annexation, Russia has done more. In terms of invasions of nations and casualties, the west has. For instance, the Afghanistan war alone has a death toll over 20 times that of the Crimean war. The west doesn't claim land sure, but they still insist of shaping the world to their liking. Militarily, if need be.
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@naveenpalanisamy9730 Because westerners forget that not all nations have to bow down to America. But they take that for granted so much that they don't even notice that they have that expectation. Even when America launches the largest wars since the turn of the millenium, it suffers no sanctions and it never even strikes them that it should have. Russia knows better than to let itself get into that position. If anything happens, the West won't even realize it, cos they take their actions for granted so much they're practically blind to there being any other way of being. It's just 'natural' to them. So Russia will be the villain regardless, there's no way it can't be since it's not part of the West. Hence it may as well just play into that role to protect its interests since the supposed 'good guys' will always think of themselves as the good guys. They just can't even imagine themselves any other way. And then they talk about Russian propaganda lol. The most effective propaganda is one that turns the message into your dearly held beliefs. America's taking for granted all its foreign interventionism all over the world, far beyond even Russia's reach, is the most successful indoctrination ever seen. Russia can't fight that narrative, but it can prevent being another victim of it. By keeping NATO aka America far away.
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@naveenpalanisamy9730 Btw, this is true even of peaceful examples. For instance, did you know that the US is involved in the Mekong river discussions? That's all the way in SE Asia, far beyond how far even Russia can exert influence. ALL of the other participants are nations through which the river actually flows, except America. So what is it doing there? Playing it's role as hegemon of course. It's just normal in the West that they're involved even though they're thousands of kilometres away. Just as it's normal to them that the US has intervened in dozens of countries all across the globe since WW2 I take it from your name that you're Indian? Well if America had had its way, India would have backed out of the 1971 aka Bangladesh war, and that nation wouldn't even exist today, cos they supported Pakistan then. They even had ships in the Bay of Bengal to intimidate India, but Indira Gandhi just defied them (and with diplomatic support from Russia). Similarly East Timor wouldn't exist today if they had their way, as America tacitly supported Indonesia's genocidal war to suppress them. And besides its own wars in the ME that've killed hundreds of thousands (look it up - that's WAY more than any of Russia's recent conflicts, combined!), they're also supporting KSA and UAE in their war in Yemen. And you think Russia controls "all nations"? Lol, Russia doesn't have that kind of reach. From Saddam to Gaddafi to Putin, Russia is not dumb enough to imagine its safe. The only counter they have is literal armageddon, which understandably they'd rather not use. They don't have forces on America's doorstep and when they did the US threw a fit (notice how once again the US expecting Cuba to bow down to it's demands is taken for granted?). So the best they can do is ensure at least that the US also doesn't have forces on their border.
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@xway2 Finland has protected itself by working out an arrangement with Russia. It's worked out pretty darn well too. Aligning with the US will only increase its insecurity. Even the video understands that, take note of its ending line. Russia isn't the victim of Finland no, but this isn't about Finland. It's not even about Europe. It's about the US, the most warmongering state of all. And that's not an exaggeration btw - just ask the people in Iraq, Afghanistan, Angola, Bolivia, Chad, Chile, Cambodia, Columbia, Cuba, El Salvador, Granada, Gautemala, Honduras, Iran, Laos, Nicaragua, Panama, Vietnam, etc... oh look, a long history of aggressive actions, and not once has the US been sanctioned for any of them.
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@maghambor Lol, democracy? Nice tangent your brought in there. You're not standing for democracy here bub, you're standing for American hegemony. And Russia doesn't respect the US, nor should it. As long as Sweden and Finland stand for their own security, Russia has respected them. Joining NATO means they stand for a whole lot more, that's antithetical to Russia.
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