Comments by "Persona" (@ArawnOfAnnwn) on "What a war with Venezuela could look like" video.

@MX-Vette "99% of the Venezuelan population have already left the country" - LMAO! I love it when people just pull numbers out of their ass. xD If that were true, that'd make the country more empty than the ends of the Sahara.
9
@kimlitelnoni4079 Errr...lolwut? I'm from one of those places, and no the US wasn't helpful. The only good examples you've got are Japan and western Europe. Most of the people from the others would not agree with being included in that list. Also, the examples are all from immediately post WW2, while America has intervened in loads of countries since then, mostly leaving them a mess. Stop trying to proselytize American general helpfulness from the policies of one good president.
8
@plc3653 What makes you think an invasion is an 'easy way' of helping, or even that it'd help at all? I belt you're also one of those neo-colonial developmentalists who think recolonizing much of Africa would 'help' them get out of poverty. Has centuries of history taught you people nothing? War doesn't build, it destroys. Even a child knows that.
6
@plc3653 "Look at Iran again, just kaboom their top leaders and then they bend to your will, and the people rejoice" - OMG! I'm done with this. There's no point trying to argue with someone whose understanding of the world is fit only for a Marvel movie. I sure am glad that I doubt you're in charge of foreign policy, for any nation. Cos your childish comic book superheroes take on how to solve problems would likely lead to ruin. Spoiler alert: The real world is neither simple nor easy. I'd have thought viewers of Caspain Report would understand that, but apparently the "kaboom!" (a sound effect only seen in comics, which again doesn't match what the real world version is like) crowd comes by here too. Please go back to debating whether Thanos was right. The rest of us have a complex and uncertain world to navigate. P.S.: Hating Maduro isn't the same thing as liking the idea of a US invasion. But I don't expect such nuances are easy for you to process, so whatever.
4
@fatalshore5068 It comes from the Greek historian Thucydides, specifically his History of the Peloponnesian War. It's part of what's known as the Melian Dialogue.
4
@plc3653 Lol, if only change was as easy as assassinating a leader. You've got to be pretty naive to believe you can achieve what you want with a single bullet or precision strike. Countries have had that ability for ages, but it isn't employed because it mostly isn't effective. Unless the situation is ideal, if you want a certain change, you're going to have to steer everything towards it, and even then you might fail. Else all an assassination, or even a series of such killings, would do is create even more chaos and uncertaintly, and may even end up hurting your own goals / interests. Nations occupy other nations they've conquered to ensure things play out the way they want them to. And yes, that includes even ensuring some possibly noble humanitarian goal is actually achieved - it doesn't happen automatically.
3
@plc3653 "So you're saying you're gonna wait until it gets absolutely the hell before taking any actions?" - no, I'm saying your 'solution' will have to be a lot more bloody and destructive than you seem to think it'll be, and that it's not much of a solution at all i.e. there's a very good chance it'll just make things worse. Also, why're you acting like the people of Venezuela have 'consented to your military intervention'? Has anyone asked them if they want one? Is there some poll of the populace there that you're working off of that I'm not aware of (and no, polling Venezuelan immigrants isn't the same thing). Stop acting like they're going to like the results - we've already heard that rhetoric before, such as with Libya. And if they haven't consented, then they haven't accepted any risks either. You're just forcing it onto them.
3
@plc3653 "compared to the shit happening there, I can't imagine the country can go any worse" - then you have a very limited imagination. Here's a good rule of thumb for life - things can ALWAYS get worse. ALWAYS. Hell, Venezuela isn't even the worst place right now. Places like Congo, Syria, etc. are there for competition, so apparently your imagination is more limited than even reality.
2
@rejvaik00 The US doesn't need to take control of more oil, but that doesn't mean it doesn't stand to gain from having more control over the oil MARKET. Venezuelan oil, if properly developed, is potentially much cheaper. Saudi Arabia is the same, but they're already under the US thumb. And any oil that the US doesn't have influence over is a threat to its dominance.
2
@quisqueyanguy120 You're gonna have to link some proof of that. A representative poll from a respected major polling organization of Venezuelans in Venezuela (not general Latin Americans in the US, btw) showing that the majority support a US military intervention.
1
Spoken like someone who's never had to face rebuilding after a war. The US wouldn't know much about that. While they've certainly necessitated many other countries having to rebuild following an American intervention, the US itself hasn't had to deal with the pain of rebuilding a shattered nation since 1865. No one on the receiving end looks forward to their world coming crashing down.
1
@sergiocazzaro4571 20 years? Didn't you guys used to love Chavez? Sure Maduro may be deeply hated, but have Venezuelans actually rejected Chavez as well for having established the system and stagnated the economy in the first place? Else all that removing Maduro will achieve is a growing nostalgia for Chavez and eventually someone will come along to do all the same things he did again.
1
"A Civil War is far superior than accepting a dictatorship." - spoken like someone who's never experienced either. And also doesn't know the proper use of the word 'objectively'. Since you're tossing around accusations of me being "emotionally charged", allow me to return the favor by pointing out how you're being ideologically driven. For only someone steeped in an ideology (in your case, probably fundamentalist libertarianism) can be so confident of which is worse between civil war or authoritarianism - to the point of being able to decide that, with universal applicability, for others as well. For anyone actually in touch with the real world and real people, it'd be common knowledge that the answer to that question differs a great deal between people, both in choosing one or the other and in regards to the extent and intensity of each that might flip their choice (i.e. how violent the civil war would have to be, and how intrusive and controlling the dictatorship could be). But no, for you it's a clear choice with no nuance, which apparently everyone would make. That's what being ideological blinded is like. All I can suggest is that you consider one day paying a visit to a place like, say, the sultanate of Brunei, and talk to the people there. Maybe then you'll get some sense of perspective and proportion.
1
@sergiocazzaro4571 Interesting. I'm used to hearing that Chavez was really popular thanks to all the freebies (at least during his time, haven't heard much about him after Maduro took over of course). Thanks for the insight.
1
So many words, so many insults, and yet you couldn't even get the issue down right. You're contrasting a dictatorship to a democracy, as if I was arguing for the former, while I'm talking about civil war. Neither political system makes a lick of difference if you're dead, the civil wars tend to do that a lot. Plus it wouldn't even be a war of their choosing or on their terms, but precipitated by a foreign invasion. The deaths mean little to you because they're just numbers on the way to an end goal, whose realization isn't even certain and certainly isn't clear by when, if ever, it'd be achieved (there are civil wars that have lasted decades, and there are fledgling democracies that have failed and regressed anyway - especially when they didn't arise naturally from within). I also mentioned Brunei simply to show you that other people might prioritize differently from you, a choice you want to take away from them in your zeal to accelerate head first to your ideal utopia. Speaking of which, are you an accelerationist? It'd sure explain a lot if you were. If the people of Venezuela decide they'd rather die fighting than live as "boot lickers", good for them. But I sure as hell don't want people like you deciding that for them. That's the nice thing about democracies, right? The people get to chart their own future, rather than being led by supposedly wiser entrenched elites. So how about you take a leaf out of your own ideal systems' book and let it be born by way of that principle too. Should make them value it more too, as well as head off potential backlash that'd argue it was artificially imposed. Btw, it was interesting reading your thoughts as regards if I was American. Interesting because, given your thoughts on the ideal system of human govt., a 'boot licker' should disgust you equally whatever their nationality, yet for you my nationality mattered to how much I might make you ill. That's a nationalist reaction. Telling, that. I always find it curious how most aggressive foreign policy hawks seem to arise from such an inward looking philosophy.
1
@God Bless America Columbia might help with an invasion (primarily as a staging ground), but they certainly won't want to help with the rebuilding. The US might want them to, but they've got enough of their own problems. If the US invades, it'll be expected to rebuild, not Columbia - and they'll take full advantage of that if they're smart.
1
Imagine if the US went to war with Venezuela. Then Iran, thinking the US was too stretched to effectively fight it, completes its nukes. So the US goes to war with Iran. Then China, seeing the opportunity, fortifies its island bases in the South China Sea, trounces Hong Kong and threatens Taiwan. So the US tries taking them on too. Then Russia moves out further to cement its position in eastern Europe. Have fun fighting a war on 4 fronts, America! So many wars, so little time. ;)
1
@fatalshore5068 Ah okay. I was under the impression that you weren't aware of its provenance.
1