Youtube comments of Ggoddkkiller (@ggoddkkiller1342).
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Some points were missed in the video:
1- Armistice of Mudros also included Ottoman surrendering their weapons, millions of artillery guns, machine rifles, bullets etc were surrendered while many Ottoman officers didn't accept it and delivered their arms to civilians instead of surrendering them. Ofc 15. Army corps under command of Kazim Karabekir Pasha entirely refused to follow the armistice and neither surrendered their arms nor disbanded their forces. Later on they became the backbone of Turkish resistance. Same as they did in Germany, entente powers kept occupying territories for few days after the armistice was signed. France occupied some territories in northern Syria while British occupied Mosul which remained as a hot topic for decades.
2- Most of Turkish regular army was either fighting against Armenia in the east or Greeks in the west while mostly irregulars fought against France and British in the south. Even then they managed to capture some cities from them and after Armenia got defeated and signed a peace agreement, French also signed a peace agreement. Western sources often claim it was Turkey which attacked Armenia but it is entirely false. You can find the manifesto of their Prime minister who states it was them who attacked crystal clear. He even adds Turks wanted to confer but they refused believing they were going to win. Only few hours before Soviets began occupying Armenia they signed a peace agreement and ended the war. So at last Turkish forces could unite against Greek army but even then Greek army had 130,000 soldiers and 70,000 reserve against 105,000 Turkish soldiers with zero reserve at the battle Dumlupınar.
3- Soviet support for Turkish resistance wasn't large scale but they sent arms and supplies in exchange of 'future grain' that Turkey was going to grow in following years and send them. So they were pretty much sending arms for free and newly established Ankara government didn't have much resources so it was crucial. Saying new government was nationalist is just a simplification, there were many people in the parliament following different ideologies including even communists and islamists. And the new government adopted socialist policies as well. So Soviets saw the new government as a potential ally for them and supported the resistance. Even today there are some socialist policies in Turkey and also a communist party who isn't very large but can win municipalities in local elections.
4- The biggest mistake of entente powers they severely miscalculated how much resistance Turks could mount. Back then there were less than 10 million Turks living and it was a laughable number compared to their colonies with hundreds of millions population. So at first they really thought they could occupy and colonize Anatolia as they wished, but after Turkish resistance they quickly realized it was impossible. Turkey is a 82% mountainous country and the resistance could keep it going for decades so they took best deal they could get and left. Mosul was left under British administiration for 100 years that later on they made it a part of Iraqi mandate. Hatay was granted a special administration with their own government that later on they decided to join back Turkey. Soviets and Caucasus countries signed agreement of Kars in favor of Turks especially Azerbaijanis, this agreement ceded Nachivan and Karabagh to Azerbaijan. Greece and Turkey signed Lausanne agreement Turkey ceding all Greek majority islands to Greece expect 2 miles radius from the mainland while Greece returning territories in Thrace. It also included population exchange that Greece sent 500,000 Muslims while Turkey 1.5m Greeks. However a part of Aegean islands weren't Greek back then rather Italian. After WW2 Allies ceded all Italian islands to Greece without caring 2 miles radius Lausanne had despite Turkey's objection. So today Turkey refuses 2 miles radius of those islands as Greek and it is the main dispute between two countries. Mosul is a hot mess so Turkey never claimed it so far, even if according to international laws Turkey can really claim it as there is no agreement ceding the territory to Iraq..
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
-Noam Chomsky
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This was mostly neutral but there were still downplaying facts and some huge mistakes, for example PKK was so wickedly attacking civilians including even Kurdish civilians the second highest casualty in this conflict after terrorists themselves isn't Turkish army, police nor civilians at all rather it is actually KURDS, civilians and especially Kurdish village guards that PKK killed thousands of them! There are hundreds of villages in southeastern Turkey alone and because the region is extremely mountainous Turkish army couldn't protect all villages constantly and Kurdish villagers were becoming easy targets for PKK raids. As a solution the government trained and armed Kurdish civilians so they could defend themselves until the army arrived. I bet some people may think ''Kurdish'' PKK and Kurdish villagers didn't fight against each others but in reality it is terrorist PKK which was seizing their assests while calling it ''tax'' and even forcefully recruiting their children! So Kurdish village guards pretty much always fought against them even if they were greatly outnumbered, while PKK simply declared them as ''traitors'' and mercilessly killed thousands of them!! Especially in 90s their violence was out of control if a Kurdish intellectual could talk against PKK would be found dead in their homes. Suicide bombing attacks in public buses, squires, markets, stations, stadiums you name it and this is the reason why literally DOZENS of countries recognize PKK as a terrorist organization as they really are terrorists!! PKK isn't committing as many terrorist attacks as before doesn't prove they magically changed like some westerners claim. Rather it is mainly because they can not smuggle both arms and themselves through Turkish-Iraqi anymore because of constant surveillance by drones. In 90s the best Turkey could do was building border outposts along the mountanious border to literally watch the border with soldiers and several dozen soldiers in a mountain peak were often becoming a target themselves..
It is true KDP asked support from even saddam but they did that out of desperation, after years of infighting they were exhausted and with great Iranian support PUK was gaining upper hand. This was also the point PKK joined PUK alliance not after KDP asked support from Iraqi government, there is a timelapse for obvious reasons! It was also completely ignored after PUK territorial gains in 1997 Turkey invaded norhern Iraq with 60,000 soldiers as PKK alliance couldn't be allowed to win the civil war and gain huge support. Instead of the truth it is told like Barzani stopped the civil war by swinging his magical wand for obvious reasons. This Turkish intervention and ending the civil war in favour of KDP was also the reason why Turkey and Barzanis have been allies since then and 15 Turkish bases were built in KDP territories started from 1998 for training Peshmerga forces and providing security.
It is also a completely a false Turkey blocked KRG's access to the world, in fact both Barzani and Talabani also many Iraqi Kurds have TURKISH diplomatic passports so they can travel through Turkey freely and ask for support from other nations. What more Turkey supposed to do than giving people diplomatic passports who aren't even Turkish citizens, huh?? Then they also completely ignored vast majority of KRG's trade travel through Turkey including 95% of their oil exports and this was the only reason KRG could survive so long. Then comes ''Turkey using PKK as an excuse to attack YPG'' nonsense, while in reality there are around TWO THOUSAND PKK terrorists in YPG's ranks, in fact even the commander of YPG is a ''former'' PKK terrorists called Mazloum Abdi! This isn't a secret or anything, just search his name you would see he is a known PKK terrorist, but no worries according to our ''trustworthy'' allies he retired being a terrorist and he is a democratic hero now!! Turkey will never ever accept this moronity, while the only way PKK terrorists can be declared innocent they will surrender and apologize to the people that they killed thousands of them. Until it happens Turkey will continue targeting them in every opportunity or YPG can cut it's ties with PKK, in fact Turkey actually asked it from US many times before starting operations against them which was ofc forgotten again! However with even it's commander being a PKK terrorist i guess it is extremely unlikely they can cut ties or could be even called seperate organizations...
PS: There aren't 30-40 million Kurdish people living Kurdistan, for example over 12 million Kurdish people out of Turkey's around 18 million Kurdish minority live in WESTERN Turkey not in Kurdistan. While the biggest Kurdish city in the world isn't Erbil, Sanadaj or Diyarbakır rather ISTANBUL with 3 million Kurdish population! They could at least research about populations properly but nope..
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Ottoman was going to loose Balkans even without Russians, Polish, Habsburgs, French, British, Portuguese, Spanish etc. (Yeah, lets have amnesia and forget about Ottoman was pretty much always fighting against half of Europe, right?) It was simply because Ottoman never tried to assimilate Balkan nations and even after 500 years they were still Greeks, Bulgarians, Serbs. It was fine when those people considered themselves as Christians not Serbs as Ottoman had a religious government system allowing them to rule themselves. But it was not fine when nationalism spread worldwide after French revolution, British empire was never defeated too severely even then they lost everywhere as well expect colonies they could assimilate entirely..
By the way there were 12 wars between Turks and Russians while Turks won 5 of them not two, i really wonder how exactly this ridiculous video comes up with 13 wars and 11 defeats. Even during WW1 Ottoman could defeat Russians in Caucasus and cleared all russian forces as far as Dagestan, this is the reason why all Caucasus countries have 1918 as their independence year from Russian empire! But i guess he could still consider it as "Russian victory" simply because Ottoman surrendered to British and French, just ignorant "historians" that is..
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Rebel statements that they didn't want to launch an offensive while Lebanon was still fighting USrael and end up supporting USrael. So they waited for the ceasefire to launch it, the offensive is a joint operation of hts and Turkish backed SNA too. There are around 80,000 SNA members while around 15,000 hts members. So the main force of the offensive is SNA for sure, not hts like it is circulating in the west. This is 100% Turkish operation, it is somehow ignored even by you guys there are almost 4 million Syrian refugees in Turkey. There are also over 5.5 million displaced Syrians in rebel territories, total over 9 million Syrians under Turkish control. Despite Turkey's efforts Syrian regime did absolutely nothing so far to convince these people to return rather they remained as refugees and displaced people. There are many Syrians still living in tents around Idlib after 6 years since they were displaced! Enough is enough, you can say Turkish policy is changed now as obiviously the government has no intention taking these people back. So new Turkish policy creating a country for them, this is also the reason why there are 'preserving syrian integrity' statements coming from leaders of the region. These Turkish backed rebels and US backed rebels in 2012-2013 aren't same people at all. One of the biggest mistakes of US they allowed foreign militants to join FSA back then and thousands of Iraqis traveled into Syria and joined FSA, we all know what they declared later on. While these rebels are entirely Syrians, SNA is 100% Syrian, trained and armed by Turkey. While hts is not directly supported by Turkey rather allying themselves to Turkish backed SNA but they are also entirely Syrian. They declared they weren't a part of quada like 5 years ago and even arrested quada linked people since then. I'm sorry but you are so poorly informed or taking a side because Syrian regime is an ally of hezbollah. Did you really forget Syrian regime killed like 5 times more civilians than USrael did? So whose side you are really on, the people or some kind of political side?? Just shame on you to be honest, i wasn't expecting such a baised poor video from you as you seemed neutral about Palestine..
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Rebel statements that they didn't want to launch an offensive while Lebanon was still fighting USrael and end up supporting USrael. So they waited for the ceasefire to launch it, the offensive is a joint operation of hts and Turkish backed SNA too. There are around 80,000 SNA members while around 20,000 hts members. So the main force of the offensive is SNA for sure, not hts like it is circulating in the west but it is true they are spearheading it. This is 100% Turkish operation, it is somehow often ignored there are almost 4 million Syrian refugees in Turkey. There are also over 5.5 million displaced Syrians in rebel territories, total over 9 million Syrians under Turkish control. (More after the offensive ofc) Despite Turkey's efforts Syrian regime did absolutely nothing so far to convince these people to return rather they remained as refugees and displaced people. There are over a million Syrians still living in tents around Idlib after 6 years since they were displaced! Enough is enough, you can say Turkish policy is changed now as obiviously the government has no intention taking these people back. So new Turkish policy creating a country for them, this is also the reason why there are 'preserving syrian integrity' statements coming from leaders of the region. These Turkish backed rebels and US backed rebels in 2012-2013 aren't same people. One of the biggest mistakes of US they allowed foreign militants to join FSA back then and thousands of Iraqis etc traveled into Syria and joined FSA, we all know what they declared later on. While these rebels are entirely Syrians, SNA is 100% Syrian, trained and armed by Turkey. While hts is not directly supported by Turkey rather allying themselves to Turkish backed SNA but they are also entirely Syrian. They declared they weren't a part of quada like 8 years ago and even arrested quada linked people since then. Their current statements they only want to liberate their country, how true that is we will see i guess but i don't think there is any danger another infighting. The biggest problem of the first war international players jumped in from all around the world and turned it into a proxy war. While today the biggest actor is Turkey which aims to stabilize Syria and send Syrians back into their country. With Russia weakened and US unwilling, there is no power left which can challenge this Turkish plan. So even if some smaller actors throwing big claims around i guarantee you they will do nothing. Same goes Syrian actors, there will be elections held in 2025 and a new government will be formed, any actor refusing to participate either SDF or hts will regret it to say at least. The Syrian war is finally over, with Daraa also rebelling and Homs surrounded, it is not if rather when question anymore..
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Logistic nightmare was happening in Balkans too. Every time Ottoman sent an army into Europe they were loosing thousands of soldiers on the way, in fact sometimes they even lost more soldiers to attrition than the battle itself like Battle of Mohacs. "Russians, Polish, Habsburgs etc saved Europe" is nothing but a fantasy, Ottoman could never push deeper into Europe without controlling Mediterranean, it was logistically impossible. They tried to dominate Mediterranean and could achieve it briefly after battle of Preveza but it was only for few years before Europeans were back with a massive armada.
Economic problems were geographical as well, Ottoman never controlled lands fertile as Europe. In early Ottoman history vast majority of Ottoman income was from trade but as Europeans established new trade routes that income was gone. So they increased taxes and made agriculture even worse but even without taxes it was never going to be same level as Europe. The most fertile land of Ottoman was Anatolia and Turkey barely produces enough for its own population with modern agriculture..
If they adopted a defensive policy towards Europe early on and focused on Crimea they could control some of Pontic steppe but they didn't and while fighting against half of Europe defending Crimea was just a dream. Those Serbian and Hungarian lands weren't much beneficial for the empire neither, it was all just a waste. However Ottoman had political reasons to do so, the modern Ottoman image in the west is nothing but a lie Ottoman always claimed itself as defender of Islam, Orthodoxs and Protestants. And most of Habsburgs wars weren't Ottoman's choice rather they were forced to act against Habsburgs.
In last 150 years the empire always had negative balance, literally always not just during wars and had to rent lands and give capitulations for its debt like Cyprus to British empire. It could be even said, Ottoman never had enough manpower nor economic power to become a superpower at first place but they somehow did which is fascinating and often ignored by western historians. They had quite unique systems and laws to achieve it like Millet system or Devshirme system, even their Eyalet system was key for ruling far away regions. However it was an extremely decentralized mess and with more and more minorities turning against the empire there was absolutely no way Ottoman to survive..
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In 1914 Ottoman had 40 million population, 3 million Christians, 25 million Arabs, 1.5 million Kurds and around 10 million Turks! Yep, you can see why Christians and Arabs rebelling against the empire was a massive problem. While Russian empire had 164 million population in 1914, UK 46 million, France 40 million that they controlled colonies with almost a billion population. All those manpower, resources, production capacity against 10 million Turks, "fair odds" i guess as they all were still defeated at the end, but not without sacrifices Muslim population of Anatolia dropped from 13 million in 1914 to 10.5 million in 1923. You can not find "neutral" western historians ever talking about that for obvious reasons..
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They did a very very poor research, first of all it is correct Turkey has around 18 million Kurdish minority but 12 million Kurdish people live in western Turkey not in the east! While the biggest Kurdish city on Earth isn't Diyarbakır, Erbil nor Sanandaj rather İstanbul with over 3 million Kurdish population. So that high birth rate of southeastern Turkey isn't related to Kurdish population entirely rather a result of development difference. For example Şanlıurfa isn't even a Kurdish majority rather Turkish and Arabic population are majority, it is simply a result of more rural lifestyle.
Still overall Kurdish population have higher birth rates than Turks for sure, but it doesn't mean they will outnumber Turks in future. Especially in western Turkey like İstanbul vast majority of Kurds do not teach their children Kurdish anymore. And the cultural difference is so little between even entirely Kurdish and Turkish families in the west. You can even tell if a person if Turkish or Kurdish until they start talking Kurdish. On top of these there are over 3 million marriages between Kurds and Turks so millions of children grow as multi-cultural individuals further mixing Turkish and Kurdish populations. So it is nothing but a total lie, Turks and Kurds have 'complicated relationship', in fact they are more integrated into each others than Scots and Brits for example or Catalans and Spanish.
This great integration is why Kurdish nationalists are scared and think as their nation will disappear eventually. So they wage a 'sacred' war to 'save' their nation while vast majority of Kurdish population do not support it. Even in less developed southeastern Turkey PKK always received so little support and had to retreat into war-torn Iraq and Syria as they could not operate inside Turkey. For example in this war high casualty after terrorists themselves isn't Turkish security forces nor civilians rather Kurdish village guards! There are thousands of villages even in southeastern Turkey alone and the army couldn't defend them all constantly in 90s. As a result the government evacuated the most dangerous villages or armed villagers in others so they could defend themselves until the army arrived. I'm sure there are a lot of ignorant westerners thinking 'Kurdish' PKK and Kurdish villagers wouldn't fight each others, but in reality PKK was seizing their assets as 'tax' and even 'drafting' their children so those villagers had no choice but fight against them even if they were greatly outnumbered. While 'Kurdish' PKK was simply declaring them as 'traitors' and mercilessly killed thousands of village guards..
So it is nothing but western ignorance and fabrication that 'Kurds want independence', 'They have complicated relations' etc. In fact Turkish army is actually around 20% Kurdish force, did you ever see a single one of them refusing to attack that 'Kurdish' PKK?? NOPE, simply because they also hate them as PKK killed so many of them. In 90s they were even assassinating Kurdish civilians who could dare to talk against them. With development of drones and construction of border wall over 1000 km long, they can not enter Turkey so easily anymore. And today it looks like Turkish army annihilating some 'poor people' who can't fight against a massive army. Turkey will never ever forgive their sins so if they are struggling anymore they should surrender and seek redemption..
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This was mostly correct but there were some huge mistakes and clear bias through it, for example in Ottoman religious minorities could operate their own religious institutions, their own government institutions, their own schools, their own courts, they could even issue their own laws! Care to share which European empire gave such rights to any religious minority? But even then they were still ''persecuted'', i really wonder how exactly. Jizya tax was very very small price for having such rights and it wasn't even a high tax, for example wealthier regions like Greece never had any problems paying Jizya tax for over 500 years while only really poor regions like Serbia struggled to pay it so blood tax was collected instead. And those children perhaps were taken forcefully but they weren't becoming slave soldiers at all. They were receiving 4 years long education and depending on their success they were receiving further education and becoming Ottoman officials or were enlisted into Janissary corps which was receiving one of highest salaries among all Ottoman standing army but they were still ''slaves'' somehow..
Also claiming Muhammad Ali Pasha was a bashi-bazouk is a massive mistake, i really wonder where he could learn such a thing! Ali Pasha was an Albanian who received at least 10 years of education to become a ''general'' (Pasha is actually a Turkish rank close to general) to lead armies and govern provinces. But he indeed raised a small army of Albanians as bashi-bazouks. There was never an official Ottoman unit as bashi-bazouks but especially during war times Pashas were often raising irregular armies as bashi-bazouks so it just means irregular soldiers.
As one of correct information, the infighting between Arabic tribes had been quite common as mostly Arabs were ruling themselves not Ottoman which allowed a lot of powerplay between tribes. In late 18th century first Saudi rebellion happened along with their radical ideology, same as their late atrocities they were quite brutal burning down towns and slaughtering ''non-Muslims'' as they wished. Ottoman ordered Ali Pasha to raise a large army in Egypt and end their rebellion. Ali Pasha did so without much resistance from Saudis but he had a large intact army now while Ottoman was quite weak so he decided his payment wasn't enough and asked for more by force. He never ever became ruler of Egypt, this is another huge mistake ''history channels'' are often making. Muhammad Ali Pasha remained as OTTOMAN GOVERNER of Egypt even after defeating Ottoman, only became governer of Syria etc as well. Ottoman attacked him back only few years later but didn't remove him from his position entirely only revoked his governship from other regions while he and his dynasty remained as governers of Egypt. Even in 1914 Egypt was still officially a part of Ottoman until WW1 began then British finally ended it by using the war as an excuse.
As last even this map isn't enough to explain struggle in the region as more and more foreign powers kept always involving, for example Russian empire's invasion of Caucasus changed power balance entirely and Armenians became a russian proxy since then. It was somehow claimed that Armenian population disappeared because of genocide but it is completely false as in 1914 Russian empire invaded eastern Turkey so Ottoman wasn't even controlling Armenian majority cities in 1915 rather they were under control of RUSSIAN EMPIRE! After Ottoman defeats against russian empire Armenians wrongly believed Ottoman was about to collapse and rebelled as a russian proxy in late 1914. But ofc they were wrong and Ottoman displaced them into Syria and Lebanon to suppress their rebellion then most of them decided to migrate into Russian empire over Caucasus mountains. The whole point of this displacement was moving Armenians away from front lines with russian empire which was supplying them arms but ofc even Armenian rebellion is somewhat forgotten thanks to re-writing history efforts and ''historians'' like this guy..
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It didn't start in Syria at all rather in Iraq! After second invasion of Iraq in 2003 US decided to change Iraqi government entirely including the army as well. All previous Iraqi officials were discharged, around 500,000 people and replaced by new officials. This led to massive unemployement in war-torn Iraq especially among Sunnis, you can find western articles from 2006, claiming these people will not disappear into thin air. Rather they will establish organizations and somehow fight back in the future. And it was exactly what happened there were many local groups in Iraq engaging against both new Iraqi government/army and the coalition forces. As US was heavily supporting Iraqi government they weren't so successful, still continued recruiting and arming themselves.
Then the Arab spring and Syrian civil war happened. At first it was Syrians rebelling against brutal rule of assad family but they got defeated against heavily armed government forces. So they desperately allowed foreigners to join their ranks, wanted people in Iraq joined them and received US coalition aids and arms. Leaked documents from Obama government show they knew those were radicals who actually fought against US forces in Iraq! But only God knows why nobody cared and US even armed these people through Jordan as a part of FSA, free Syrian army. For first few years it was going well, FSA managed to defeat assadist forces in many fronts with these reinforcements. It was even looking like assadists were going to be defeated and Syrian civil war was going to end soon expect more and more Iraqis were joinning FSA and these radical percentage becoming very large. In 2014 the unthinkable happened and these people declared they were no longer a part of FSA and established isis. Ofc actual Syrian rebels didn't accept this and began heavily fighting against isis. This allowed assadists to slowly recover and with involvement of Russia they gained upperhand again. FSA got defeated in many fronts as they were fighting against isis, assadists, YPG at the same time and retreated to northern Syria. They requested aid from Turkey and Turkey fearing more refugee waves will happen in case of their defeat, began supporting them in 2016. This was also why Turkey shot down a Russian jet as they were heavily bombing FSA forces especially Turkmen groups in Azaz next to Turkish border so Turkey gave them an ultimatom. Western coalition ditched FSA entirely and focused on YPG-SDF during same time period and sides are exactly same today. Everybody is against isis, FSA is against assadists and YPG, YPG is against FSA while assadists are busy killing innocents...
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This was mostly neutral but there were still downplaying facts and some huge mistakes, for example PKK was so wickedly attacking civilians including even Kurdish civilians the second highest casualty in this conflict after terrorists themselves isn't Turkish army, police nor civilians at all rather it is actually KURDS, civilians and especially Kurdish village guards that PKK killed thousands of them! There are hundreds of villages in southeastern Turkey alone and because the region is extremely mountainous Turkish army couldn't protect all villages constantly and Kurdish villagers were becoming easy targets for PKK raids. As a solution the government trained and armed Kurdish civilians so they could defend themselves until the army arrived. I bet some people may think ''Kurdish'' PKK and Kurdish villagers didn't fight against each others but in reality it is terrorist PKK which was seizing their assests while calling it ''tax'' and even forcefully recruiting their children! So Kurdish village guards pretty much always fought against them even if they were greatly outnumbered, while PKK simply declared them as ''traitors'' and mercilessly killed thousands of them!! Especially in 90s their violence was out of control if a Kurdish intellectual could talk against PKK would be found dead in their homes. Suicide bombing attacks in public buses, squires, markets, stations, stadiums you name it and this is the reason why literally DOZENS of countries recognize PKK as a terrorist organization as they really are terrorists!! PKK isn't committing as many terrorist attacks as before doesn't prove they magically changed like some westerners claim. Rather it is mainly because they can not smuggle both arms and themselves through Turkish-Iraqi anymore because of constant surveillance by drones. In 90s the best Turkey could do was building border outposts along the mountanious border to literally watch the border with soldiers and several dozen soldiers in a mountain peak were often becoming a target themselves..
It is true KDP asked support from even saddam but they did that out of desperation, after years of infighting they were exhausted and with great Iranian support PUK was gaining upper hand. This was also the point PKK joined PUK alliance not after KDP asked support from Iraqi government, there is a timelapse for obvious reasons! It was also completely ignored after PUK territorial gains in 1997 Turkey invaded norhern Iraq with 60,000 soldiers as PKK alliance couldn't be allowed to win the civil war and gain huge support. Instead of the truth it is told like Barzani stopped the civil war by swinging his magical wand for obvious reasons. This Turkish intervention and ending the civil war in favour of KDP was also the reason why Turkey and Barzanis have been allies since then and 15 Turkish bases were built in KDP territories started from 1998 for training Peshmerga forces and providing security.
It is also a completely a false Turkey blocked KRG's access to the world, in fact both Barzani and Talabani also many Iraqi Kurds have TURKISH diplomatic passports so they can travel through Turkey freely and ask for support from other nations. What more Turkey supposed to do than giving people diplomatic passports who aren't even Turkish citizens, huh?? Then they also completely ignored vast majority of KRG's trade travel through Turkey including 95% of their oil exports and this was the only reason KRG could survive so long. Then comes ''Turkey using PKK as an excuse to attack YPG'' nonsense, while in reality there are around TWO THOUSAND PKK terrorists in YPG's ranks, in fact even the commander of YPG is a ''former'' PKK terrorists called Mazloum Abdi! This isn't a secret or anything, just search his name you would see he is a known PKK terrorist, but no worries according to our ''trustworthy'' allies he retired being a terrorist and he is a democratic hero now!! Turkey will never ever accept this moronity, while the only way PKK terrorists can be declared innocent they will surrender and apologize to the people that they killed thousands of them. Until it happens Turkey will continue targeting them in every opportunity or YPG can cut it's ties with PKK, in fact Turkey actually asked it from US many times before starting operations against them which was ofc forgotten again! However with even it's commander being a PKK terrorist i guess it is extremely unlikely they can cut ties or could be even called seperate organizations...
PS: There aren't 30-40 million Kurdish people living Kurdistan, for example over 12 million Kurdish people out of Turkey's around 18 million Kurdish minority live in WESTERN Turkey not in Kurdistan. While the biggest Kurdish city in the world isn't Erbil, Sanadaj or Diyarbakır rather ISTANBUL with 3 million Kurdish population! They could at least research about populations properly but nope..
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This was mostly neutral but there were still downplaying facts and some huge mistakes, for example PKK was so wickedly attacking civilians including even Kurdish civilians the second highest casualty in this conflict after terrorists themselves isn't Turkish army, police nor civilians at all rather it is actually KURDS, civilians and especially Kurdish village guards that PKK killed thousands of them! There are hundreds of villages in southeastern Turkey alone and because the region is extremely mountainous Turkish army couldn't protect all villages constantly and Kurdish villagers were becoming easy targets for PKK raids. As a solution the government trained and armed Kurdish civilians so they could defend themselves until the army arrived. I bet some people may think ''Kurdish'' PKK and Kurdish villagers didn't fight against each others but in reality it is terrorist PKK which was seizing their assests while calling it ''tax'' and even forcefully recruiting their children! So Kurdish village guards pretty much always fought against them even if they were greatly outnumbered, while PKK simply declared them as ''traitors'' and mercilessly killed thousands of them!! Especially in 90s their violence was out of control if a Kurdish intellectual could talk against PKK would be found dead in their homes. Suicide bombing attacks in public buses, squires, markets, stations, stadiums you name it and this is the reason why literally DOZENS of countries recognize PKK as a terrorist organization as they really are terrorists!! PKK isn't committing as many terrorist attacks as before doesn't prove they magically changed like some westerners claim. Rather it is mainly because they can not smuggle both arms and themselves through Turkish-Iraqi anymore because of constant surveillance by drones. In 90s the best Turkey could do was building border outposts along the mountanious border to literally watch the border with soldiers and several dozen soldiers in a mountain peak were often becoming a target themselves..
It is true KDP asked support from even saddam but they did that out of desperation, after years of infighting they were exhausted and with great Iranian support PUK was gaining upper hand. This was also the point PKK joined PUK alliance not after KDP asked support from Iraqi government, there is a timelapse for obvious reasons! It was also completely ignored after PUK territorial gains in 1997 Turkey invaded norhern Iraq with 60,000 soldiers as PKK alliance couldn't be allowed to win the civil war and gain huge support. Instead of the truth it is told like Barzani stopped the civil war by swinging his magical wand for obvious reasons. This Turkish intervention and ending the civil war in favour of KDP was also the reason why Turkey and Barzanis have been allies since then and 15 Turkish bases were built in KDP territories started from 1998 for training Peshmerga forces and providing security.
It is also a completely a false Turkey blocked KRG's access to the world, in fact both Barzani and Talabani also many Iraqi Kurds have TURKISH diplomatic passports so they can travel through Turkey freely and ask for support from other nations. What more Turkey supposed to do than giving people diplomatic passports who aren't even Turkish citizens, huh?? Then they also completely ignored vast majority of KRG's trade travel through Turkey including 95% of their oil exports and this was the only reason KRG could survive so long. Then comes ''Turkey using PKK as an excuse to attack YPG'' nonsense, while in reality there are around TWO THOUSAND PKK terrorists in YPG's ranks, in fact even the commander of YPG is a ''former'' PKK terrorists called Mazloum Abdi! This isn't a secret or anything, just search his name you would see he is a known PKK terrorist, but no worries according to our ''trustworthy'' allies he retired being a terrorist and he is a democratic hero now!! Turkey will never ever accept this moronity, while the only way PKK terrorists can be declared innocent they will surrender and apologize to the people that they killed thousands of them. Until it happens Turkey will continue targeting them in every opportunity or YPG can cut it's ties with PKK, in fact Turkey actually asked it from US many times before starting operations against them which was ofc forgotten again! However with even it's commander being a PKK terrorist i guess it is extremely unlikely they can cut ties or could be even called seperate organizations...
PS: There aren't 30-40 million Kurdish people living Kurdistan, for example over 12 million Kurdish people out of Turkey's around 18 million Kurdish minority live in WESTERN Turkey not in Kurdistan. While the biggest Kurdish city in the world isn't Erbil, Sanadaj or Diyarbakır rather ISTANBUL with 3 million Kurdish population! They could at least research about populations properly but nope..
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This was mostly correct but there were some huge mistakes and clear bias through it, for example in Ottoman religious minorities could operate their own religious institutions, their own government institutions, their own schools, their own courts, they could even issue their own laws! Care to share which European empire gave such rights to any religious minority? But even then they were still ''persecuted'', i really wonder how exactly. Jizya tax was very very small price for having such rights and it wasn't even a high tax, for example wealthier regions like Greece never had any problems paying Jizya tax for over 500 years while only really poor regions like Serbia struggled to pay it so blood tax was collected instead. And those children perhaps were taken forcefully but they weren't becoming slave soldiers at all. They were receiving 4 years long education and depending on their success they were receiving further education and becoming Ottoman officials or were enlisted into Janissary corps which was receiving one of highest salaries among all Ottoman standing army but they were still ''slaves'' somehow..
Also claiming Muhammad Ali Pasha was a bashi-bazouk is a massive mistake, i really wonder where he could learn such a thing! Ali Pasha was an Albanian who received at least 10 years of education to become a ''general'' (Pasha is actually a Turkish rank close to general) to lead armies and govern provinces. But he indeed raised a small army of Albanians as bashi-bazouks. There was never an official Ottoman unit as bashi-bazouks but especially during war times Pashas were often raising irregular armies as bashi-bazouks so it just means irregular soldiers.
As one of correct information, the infighting between Arabic tribes had been quite common as mostly Arabs were ruling themselves not Ottoman which allowed a lot of powerplay between tribes. In late 18th century first Saudi rebellion happened along with their radical ideology, same as their late atrocities they were quite brutal burning down towns and slaughtering ''non-Muslims'' as they wished. Ottoman ordered Ali Pasha to raise a large army in Egypt and end their rebellion. Ali Pasha did so without much resistance from Saudis but he had a large intact army now while Ottoman was quite weak so he decided his payment wasn't enough and asked for more by force. He never ever became ruler of Egypt, this is another huge mistake ''history channels'' are often making. Muhammad Ali Pasha remained as OTTOMAN GOVERNER of Egypt even after defeating Ottoman, only became governer of Syria etc as well. Ottoman attacked him back only few years later but didn't remove him from his position entirely only revoked his governship from other regions while he and his dynasty remained as governers of Egypt. Even in 1914 Egypt was still officially a part of Ottoman until WW1 began then British finally ended it by using the war as an excuse.
As last even this map isn't enough to explain struggle in the region as more and more foreign powers kept always involving, for example Russian empire's invasion of Caucasus changed power balance entirely and Armenians became a russian proxy since then. It was somehow claimed that Armenian population disappeared because of genocide but it is completely false as in 1914 Russian empire invaded eastern Turkey so Ottoman wasn't even controlling Armenian majority cities in 1915 rather they were under control of RUSSIAN EMPIRE! After Ottoman defeats against russian empire Armenians wrongly believed Ottoman was about to collapse and rebelled as a russian proxy in late 1914. But ofc they were wrong and Ottoman displaced them into Syria and Lebanon to suppress their rebellion then most of them decided to migrate into Russian empire over Caucasus mountains. The whole point of this displacement was moving Armenians away from front lines with russian empire which was supplying them arms but ofc even Armenian rebellion is somewhat forgotten thanks to re-writing history efforts and ''historians'' like this guy..
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This was surprisingly neutral, i thought it was going to downright blame us like western media but he fairly mentioned why we are upset and there is a real possiblity of war because actions of spoiled Greeks. Still there were missing points, first of all there are so many Turkish ''violations'' of Greek airspace because Greece increased their airspace to 12 miles in Aegean while their territorial waters are still 6 miles. So they became the ONLY country on Earth which has longer airspace than their territorial waters or borders!! Turkey completely refuses this airspace increase and acts like Greek airspace is still 6 miles so there are Turkish ''violations'' literally everyday. Secondly if Greece increases their territorial waters to 12 miles the international channel in middle of Aegean disappears and not only all ship traffic going to Istanbul gets blocked also several large cities literally become landlocked including İzmir. So there is no way at all Turkey can accept 12 miles Greek territorial waters without an agreement guraanteing safe passage or an international corridor. There is really no other way, in fact Turkey officially considers declearing 12 miles territorial waters as a declaration of war that's why Greece couldn't do it so far instead only increased their airspace to 12 miles..
It gets even worse if we include treaty of Lausanne which forbids any militarization not just foritification of islands close to Turkey and Greece is very clearly violating it, even their former PM publicly acknowledged they indeed violating treaty of Lausanne. Turkey officially accepted those islands as Greek islands in only treaty of Lausanne so violating it is so insanely stupid for Greece as everything might happen if it is revoked!! Turkey wouldn't invade southern Cyprus or Greek islands with large Greek populations like Samos or Rhodes but there are THOUSANDS of islands, islets and rocks in Aegean without any population at all or only few hundred including Kastellorizo which might be invaded and claimed to increase Turkish territorial waters in Aegean. Kastellorizo is also a huge problem as it reduces Turkish EEZ over 100,000 km2 alone even if it has only 200 population. No country on Earth would accept such an EEZ, in fact English islands next to France have reduced terrorital waters and EEZ, French islands next to Canada have reduced EEZ, Spanish islands next to Morocco have reduced territorial waters and EEZ, Finish islands next to Sweden have reduced terrirotiral waters and EEZ, Ukranian island next to Romania has reduced EEZ but only God knows how exactly Greek islands next to Turkey must have full territorial waters and EEZ!! Turkey will never ever accept such a moronity and there will be war instead for sure. While militarizing Greek islands doesn't reduce a chance of Turkish invasion at all, those islands are so close to Turkey some of them are even in RIFLE range and they all are constantly monitored. You can bet Turkish army even knows how many times those Greek soldiers pissing in a day not just their exact positions so in case of war they will be targeted so badly with rockets, missiles and shells they will desert their positions and hide in cities in no time!! It is just an impossible task to defend those islands especially against a force with hundreds of armed drones. It would be far better for them if they actually respect treaty of Lausanne or even better sign a new agreement with Turkey permanently fixing issues...
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Here is a list of mistakes, Good Times Bad Times should increase research time quite more:
1- Azerbaijan didn't cede an inch of land to Armenia and there were only ceasefire deals not peace agreements of any kind. While Armenia kept occupying the region illegally for 30 years, some try to justify this by stating Karabakh is Armenian majority while in reality Karabakh is only 7% of Azerbaijan and Armenia invaded 20% of Azerbaijan including many Azerbaijani majority territories! In fact over 800,000 Azerbaijanis were displaced by Armenian invasion and several thousand were killed, even if it is very well documented somehow forgotten anymore after Azerbaijan gained superiority in the long war.
2- The gold mine is within Azerbaijan and it was Armenians who were illegally running the mine for 30 years, literally stealing Azerbaijani gold. But it could be somehow learned as Azerbaijan tried to capture a gold mine inside Armenia which tells a lot about what kind of sources were used during research..
3- Azerbaijan launching the operation now has nothing to do with Russia rather it is about US, training exercise American soldiers held in Yerevan was clear indication that Armenians are trying to replace Russian peacekeepers with American peacekeepers so Azerbaijan acted before such a thing could happen. Also Azerbaijan doesn't need any kind of excuse to liberate their own territories from a hostile militia! They only waited 3 years after second Karabakh war as there was very serious expectation Armenians were going to sign a peace agreement including land swap, Karabakh for a corridor in Zengezur, in fact the ceasefire agreement included this corridor and in return Azerbaijan promised Lachin corridor. Lachin corridor was up and running almost as soon as the agreement signed while Zengezur corridor didn't happen for years. So loosing patient Azerbaijani side first blocked Lachin corridor and then lauched the operation when US involvement was last drop.
4- Second Karabakh war never officially ended, even first Karabakh war never officially ended! There was never a peace agreement therefore Armenia and Azerbaijan are still in war!! Armenian soldiers leaving Azerbaijani lands after 30 years can not end the war magically, Azerbaijan won't accept ''they are gone so the war is over'' nonsense like some western countries are trying to force Azerbaijanis to accept. Armenia will accept their defeat with a peace agreement and pay reparations for Azerbaijani casualties and the damage they caused including thousands of mines that it will take dozens of lives and decades to fully clear. Until there is finally a peace agrement Azerbaijan can even push into Armenian territory if it is necessary to convince them for peace. While international community can only ignore it exactly same as how they ignored Armenian invasion of Azerbaijan for 30 years...
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I will mention mistakes in same order he made them from Turkish perspective;
1- Janissaries were never slave soldiers nor they ever gave up their military ways, i really wonder from which sources he could learn such nonsense really! Janissary corps existed over 500 years and ofc it kept changing in time both by demands of Janissaries and reforms done by Ottoman. Janissaries could always buy properties, retire and start civilian lives but it was strictly forbidden while they were serving they could not marry or buy any businesses. Later on it was allowed them to marry while they were still serving so not long after there were children of Janissaries and their fathers wanted to enlist them to the corps. It was refused for a while then their orphan children were allowed to enlist, soon after Muslim orphans were also accepted. Not long after Devshirme system was abolished and Janissary corps began accepting everybody. So Janissary size was rapidly increasing who were only a part Ottoman standing army and at the begining a minority. For example in 1492 Ottoman army had 6,000 Janissaries and 40,000 Sipahis, because Turks were nomads vast majority of Turkish soldiers were cavarly. However after they were allowed to marry and their children began enlisting etc the size of Janissary corps began increasing rapidly through 16 and 17th centuries. So they became dominant force within the Ottoman army and began pretty much doing whatever they wanted, revolting for higher salaries, accepting merchants and artists to the corps for bribes you name it. In 18th century Janissary member size became much larger than their actual army size and ofc Ottoman had to pay them all salaries, to reduce the burden Ottoman reduced Janissary peace time salary and increased their war time salary given directly to soldiers during their campaign so merchants etc couldn't receive it. But it didn't also fix anything as this time Janissaries began wanting war constantly and revolting simply because there was too long peace period..
2- Another reason why Ottoman literacy rate was low, Arabic alphabet was never right for Turkish. There are so many vowels in Turkish which doesn't exist in Arabic at all so it was literally impossible to correctly write many Turkish words. Ottoman literary language aka Ottoman Turkish ''fixed'' this by replacing those Turkish words with foreign words but those foreign words were never adopted by ordinary people. So this speaking and literary language difference placed a barrier between literacy and ordinary people and only educated people bothered learning Ottoman Turkish which was ofc so small part of population same as everywhere.
3- There is no evidence at all Suleiman's sons were going to betray him, Mustafa was 38 years old when he was accused for betrayal and executed. But it wasn't his doing rather simply Ottoman nobles were supporting him to become sultan anymore as he was the most loved son of Suleiman and he almost reached his 40s while Suleiman was 58. Instead of stepping down Suleiman killed him which made a lot of people upset, his youngest sick son died only weeks later. Beyazid blamed him for deaths of his brothers and indeed rebelled against him with support of some Ottoman nobles. But he was defeated and executed as well which left Selim the drunkard as the only heir of Suleiman, it was a sad episode of how to destroy a dynasty really..
4- Another mistake it is somehow told as Ottoman didn't want to reform it's army but it is just false, Ottoman was doing everything they could to reform their army but Janissaries were against it and actually rebelled several times to keep their old ways through out 18th century. For example Nizâm-ı cedîd army was established in 1792 which adopted napoleonic warfare but after a Janissary rebellion it had to be abolished in 1807. After janissary corps was abolished entirely in 1826 Ottoman could finally begin reforming it's military.
5- There were always radical Muslims same as there were radical Christians in Europe, the difference was Europe was ruled by radical Christians through out medieval ages while Muslim world was ruled by moderate Muslims. It is often ignored by westerners for obvious reasons but Turks were always traditionally quite moderate, for example do you know how many women were stoned in Ottoman in it's over 600 years old history? ONLY ONE who was a prostitute and admitted her guilt which didn't require much punishment but she also claimed she didn't do anything wrong and Ottoman laws were false. Violating Islamic laws is one thing and questioning Ottoman laws another so she got the worst punishment possible. Another example would be saudis with their radical wahabism, they actually rebelled against Ottoman and began attacking ''fake Muslims'' and tombs etc exactly same as isis did in recent years. Ottoman ordered and funded Ali Pasha to raise an army in Egypt and end their rebellion that he did without much trouble, saudis were pushed back into desert while several family members were executed. Unfortunately for Ottoman Ali Pasha's army was largely intact so he used it to fight against Ottoman for governership in more regions than Egypt. So the decline of moderate central powers and radical groups like saudis taking power was the true reason for rise of radicalism in Islamic world not printing at all..
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This was mostly neutral but there were still downplaying facts and some huge mistakes, for example PKK was so wickedly attacking civilians including even Kurdish civilians the second highest casualty in this conflict after terrorists themselves isn't Turkish army, police nor civilians at all rather it is actually KURDS, civilians and especially Kurdish village guards that PKK killed thousands of them! There are hundreds of villages in southeastern Turkey alone and because the region is extremely mountainous Turkish army couldn't protect all villages constantly and Kurdish villagers were becoming easy targets for PKK raids. As a solution the government trained and armed Kurdish civilians so they could defend themselves until the army arrived. I bet some people may think ''Kurdish'' PKK and Kurdish villagers didn't fight against each others but in reality it is terrorist PKK which was seizing their assests while calling it ''tax'' and even forcefully recruiting their children! So Kurdish village guards pretty much always fought against them even if they were greatly outnumbered, while PKK simply declared them as ''traitors'' and mercilessly killed thousands of them!! Especially in 90s their violence was out of control if a Kurdish intellectual could talk against PKK would be found dead in their homes. Suicide bombing attacks in public buses, squires, markets, stations, stadiums you name it and this is the reason why literally DOZENS of countries recognize PKK as a terrorist organization as they really are terrorists!! PKK isn't committing as many terrorist attacks as before doesn't prove they magically changed like some westerners claim. Rather it is mainly because they can not smuggle both arms and themselves through Turkish-Iraqi anymore because of constant surveillance by drones. In 90s the best Turkey could do was building border outposts along the mountanious border to literally watch the border with soldiers and several dozen soldiers in a mountain peak were often becoming a target themselves..
It is true KDP asked support from even saddam but they did that out of desperation, after years of infighting they were exhausted and with great Iranian support PUK was gaining upper hand. This was also the point PKK joined PUK alliance not after KDP asked support from Iraqi government, there is a timelapse for obvious reasons! It was also completely ignored after PUK territorial gains in 1997 Turkey invaded norhern Iraq with 60,000 soldiers as PKK alliance couldn't be allowed to win the civil war and gain huge support. Instead of the truth it is told like Barzani stopped the civil war by swinging his magical wand for obvious reasons. This Turkish intervention and ending the civil war in favour of KDP was also the reason why Turkey and Barzanis have been allies since then and 15 Turkish bases were built in KDP territories started from 1998 for training Peshmerga forces and providing security.
It is also a completely a false Turkey blocked KRG's access to the world, in fact both Barzani and Talabani also many Iraqi Kurds have TURKISH diplomatic passports so they can travel through Turkey freely and ask for support from other nations. What more Turkey supposed to do than giving people diplomatic passports who aren't even Turkish citizens, huh?? Then they also completely ignored vast majority of KRG's trade travel through Turkey including 95% of their oil exports and this was the only reason KRG could survive so long. Then comes ''Turkey using PKK as an excuse to attack YPG'' nonsense, while in reality there are around TWO THOUSAND PKK terrorists in YPG's ranks, in fact even the commander of YPG is a ''former'' PKK terrorists called Mazloum Abdi! This isn't a secret or anything, just search his name you would see he is a known PKK terrorist, but no worries according to our ''trustworthy'' allies he retired being a terrorist and he is a democratic hero now!! Turkey will never ever accept this moronity, while the only way PKK terrorists can be declared innocent they will surrender and apologize to the people that they killed thousands of them. Until it happens Turkey will continue targeting them in every opportunity or YPG can cut it's ties with PKK, in fact Turkey actually asked it from US many times before starting operations against them which was ofc forgotten again! However with even it's commander being a PKK terrorist i guess it is extremely unlikely they can cut ties or could be even called seperate organizations...
PS: There aren't 30-40 million Kurdish people living Kurdistan, for example over 12 million Kurdish people out of Turkey's around 18 million Kurdish minority live in WESTERN Turkey not in Kurdistan. While the biggest Kurdish city in the world isn't Erbil, Sanadaj or Diyarbakır rather ISTANBUL with 3 million Kurdish population! They could at least research about populations properly but nope..
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This was mostly neutral but there were still downplaying facts and some huge mistakes, for example PKK was so wickedly attacking civilians including even Kurdish civilians the second highest casualty in this conflict after terrorists themselves isn't Turkish army, police nor civilians at all rather it is actually KURDS, civilians and especially Kurdish village guards that PKK killed thousands of them! There are hundreds of villages in southeastern Turkey alone and because the region is extremely mountainous Turkish army couldn't protect all villages constantly and Kurdish villagers were becoming easy targets for PKK raids. As a solution the government trained and armed Kurdish civilians so they could defend themselves until the army arrived. I bet some people may think ''Kurdish'' PKK and Kurdish villagers didn't fight against each others but in reality it is terrorist PKK which was seizing their assests while calling it ''tax'' and even forcefully recruiting their children! So Kurdish village guards pretty much always fought against them even if they were greatly outnumbered, while PKK simply declared them as ''traitors'' and mercilessly killed thousands of them!! Especially in 90s their violence was out of control if a Kurdish intellectual could talk against PKK would be found dead in their homes. Suicide bombing attacks in public buses, squires, markets, stations, stadiums you name it and this is the reason why literally DOZENS of countries recognize PKK as a terrorist organization as they really are terrorists!! PKK isn't committing as many terrorist attacks as before doesn't prove they magically changed like some westerners claim. Rather it is mainly because they can not smuggle both arms and themselves through Turkish-Iraqi anymore because of constant surveillance by drones. In 90s the best Turkey could do was building border outposts along the mountanious border to literally watch the border with soldiers and several dozen soldiers in a mountain peak were often becoming a target themselves..
It is true KDP asked support from even saddam but they did that out of desperation, after years of infighting they were exhausted and with great Iranian support PUK was gaining upper hand. This was also the point PKK joined PUK alliance not after KDP asked support from Iraqi government, there is a timelapse for obvious reasons! It was also completely ignored after PUK territorial gains in 1997 Turkey invaded norhern Iraq with 60,000 soldiers as PKK alliance couldn't be allowed to win the civil war and gain huge support. Instead of the truth it is told like Barzani stopped the civil war by swinging his magical wand for obvious reasons. This Turkish intervention and ending the civil war in favour of KDP was also the reason why Turkey and Barzanis have been allies since then and 15 Turkish bases were built in KDP territories started from 1998 for training Peshmerga forces and providing security.
It is also a completely a false Turkey blocked KRG's access to the world, in fact both Barzani and Talabani also many Iraqi Kurds have TURKISH diplomatic passports so they can travel through Turkey freely and ask for support from other nations. What more Turkey supposed to do than giving people diplomatic passports who aren't even Turkish citizens, huh?? Then they also completely ignored vast majority of KRG's trade travel through Turkey including 95% of their oil exports and this was the only reason KRG could survive so long. Then comes ''Turkey using PKK as an excuse to attack YPG'' nonsense, while in reality there are around TWO THOUSAND PKK terrorists in YPG's ranks, in fact even the commander of YPG is a ''former'' PKK terrorists called Mazloum Abdi! This isn't a secret or anything, just search his name you would see he is a known PKK terrorist, but no worries according to our ''trustworthy'' allies he retired being a terrorist and he is a democratic hero now!! Turkey will never ever accept this moronity, while the only way PKK terrorists can be declared innocent they will surrender and apologize to the people that they killed thousands of them. Until it happens Turkey will continue targeting them in every opportunity or YPG can cut it's ties with PKK, in fact Turkey actually asked it from US many times before starting operations against them which was ofc forgotten again! However with even it's commander being a PKK terrorist i guess it is extremely unlikely they can cut ties or could be even called seperate organizations...
PS: There aren't 30-40 million Kurdish people living Kurdistan, for example over 12 million Kurdish people out of Turkey's around 18 million Kurdish minority live in WESTERN Turkey not in Kurdistan. While the biggest Kurdish city in the world isn't Erbil, Sanadaj or Diyarbakır rather ISTANBUL with 3 million Kurdish population! They could at least research about populations properly but nope..
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This was mostly neutral but there were still downplaying facts and some huge mistakes, for example PKK was so wickedly attacking civilians including even Kurdish civilians the second highest casualty in this conflict after terrorists themselves isn't Turkish army, police nor civilians at all rather it is actually KURDS, civilians and especially Kurdish village guards that PKK killed thousands of them! There are hundreds of villages in southeastern Turkey alone and because the region is extremely mountainous Turkish army couldn't protect all villages constantly and Kurdish villagers were becoming easy targets for PKK raids. As a solution the government trained and armed Kurdish civilians so they could defend themselves until the army arrived. I bet some people may think ''Kurdish'' PKK and Kurdish villagers didn't fight against each others but in reality it is terrorist PKK which was seizing their assests while calling it ''tax'' and even forcefully recruiting their children! So Kurdish village guards pretty much always fought against them even if they were greatly outnumbered, while PKK simply declared them as ''traitors'' and mercilessly killed thousands of them!! Especially in 90s their violence was out of control if a Kurdish intellectual could talk against PKK would be found dead in their homes. Suicide bombing attacks in public buses, squires, markets, stations, stadiums you name it and this is the reason why literally DOZENS of countries recognize PKK as a terrorist organization as they really are terrorists!! PKK isn't committing as many terrorist attacks as before doesn't prove they magically changed like some westerners claim. Rather it is mainly because they can not smuggle both arms and themselves through Turkish-Iraqi anymore because of constant surveillance by drones. In 90s the best Turkey could do was building border outposts along the mountanious border to literally watch the border with soldiers and several dozen soldiers in a mountain peak were often becoming a target themselves..
It is true KDP asked support from even saddam but they did that out of desperation, after years of infighting they were exhausted and with great Iranian support PUK was gaining upper hand. This was also the point PKK joined PUK alliance not after KDP asked support from Iraqi government, there is a timelapse for obvious reasons! It was also completely ignored after PUK territorial gains in 1997 Turkey invaded norhern Iraq with 60,000 soldiers as PKK alliance couldn't be allowed to win the civil war and gain huge support. Instead of the truth it is told like Barzani stopped the civil war by swinging his magical wand for obvious reasons. This Turkish intervention and ending the civil war in favour of KDP was also the reason why Turkey and Barzanis have been allies since then and 15 Turkish bases were built in KDP territories started from 1998 for training Peshmerga forces and providing security.
It is also a completely a false Turkey blocked KRG's access to the world, in fact both Barzani and Talabani also many Iraqi Kurds have TURKISH diplomatic passports so they can travel through Turkey freely and ask for support from other nations. What more Turkey supposed to do than giving people diplomatic passports who aren't even Turkish citizens, huh?? Then they also completely ignored vast majority of KRG's trade travel through Turkey including 95% of their oil exports and this was the only reason KRG could survive so long. Then comes ''Turkey using PKK as an excuse to attack YPG'' nonsense, while in reality there are around TWO THOUSAND PKK terrorists in YPG's ranks, in fact even the commander of YPG is a ''former'' PKK terrorists called Mazloum Abdi! This isn't a secret or anything, just search his name you would see he is a known PKK terrorist, but no worries according to our ''trustworthy'' allies he retired being a terrorist and he is a democratic hero now!! Turkey will never ever accept this moronity, while the only way PKK terrorists can be declared innocent they will surrender and apologize to the people that they killed thousands of them. Until it happens Turkey will continue targeting them in every opportunity or YPG can cut it's ties with PKK, in fact Turkey actually asked it from US many times before starting operations against them which was ofc forgotten again! However with even it's commander being a PKK terrorist i guess it is extremely unlikely they can cut ties or could be even called seperate organizations...
PS: There aren't 30-40 million Kurdish people living Kurdistan, for example over 12 million Kurdish people out of Turkey's around 18 million Kurdish minority live in WESTERN Turkey not in Kurdistan. While the biggest Kurdish city in the world isn't Erbil, Sanadaj or Diyarbakır rather ISTANBUL with 3 million Kurdish population! They could at least research about populations properly but nope..
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This was mostly neutral but there were still downplaying facts and some huge mistakes, for example PKK was so wickedly attacking civilians including even Kurdish civilians the second highest casualty in this conflict after terrorists themselves isn't Turkish army, police nor civilians at all rather it is actually KURDS, civilians and especially Kurdish village guards that PKK killed thousands of them! There are hundreds of villages in southeastern Turkey alone and because the region is extremely mountainous Turkish army couldn't protect all villages constantly and Kurdish villagers were becoming easy targets for PKK raids. As a solution the government trained and armed Kurdish civilians so they could defend themselves until the army arrived. I bet some people may think ''Kurdish'' PKK and Kurdish villagers didn't fight against each others but in reality it is terrorist PKK which was seizing their assests while calling it ''tax'' and even forcefully recruiting their children! So Kurdish village guards pretty much always fought against them even if they were greatly outnumbered, while PKK simply declared them as ''traitors'' and mercilessly killed thousands of them!! Especially in 90s their violence was out of control if a Kurdish intellectual could talk against PKK would be found dead in their homes. Suicide bombing attacks in public buses, squires, markets, stations, stadiums you name it and this is the reason why literally DOZENS of countries recognize PKK as a terrorist organization as they really are terrorists!! PKK isn't committing as many terrorist attacks as before doesn't prove they magically changed like some westerners claim. Rather it is mainly because they can not smuggle both arms and themselves through Turkish-Iraqi anymore because of constant surveillance by drones. In 90s the best Turkey could do was building border outposts along the mountanious border to literally watch the border with soldiers and several dozen soldiers in a mountain peak were often becoming a target themselves..
It is true KDP asked support from even saddam but they did that out of desperation, after years of infighting they were exhausted and with great Iranian support PUK was gaining upper hand. This was also the point PKK joined PUK alliance not after KDP asked support from Iraqi government, there is a timelapse for obvious reasons! It was also completely ignored after PUK territorial gains in 1997 Turkey invaded norhern Iraq with 60,000 soldiers as PKK alliance couldn't be allowed to win the civil war and gain huge support. Instead of the truth it is told like Barzani stopped the civil war by swinging his magical wand for obvious reasons. This Turkish intervention and ending the civil war in favour of KDP was also the reason why Turkey and Barzanis have been allies since then and 15 Turkish bases were built in KDP territories started from 1998 for training Peshmerga forces and providing security.
It is also a completely a false Turkey blocked KRG's access to the world, in fact both Barzani and Talabani also many Iraqi Kurds have TURKISH diplomatic passports so they can travel through Turkey freely and ask for support from other nations. What more Turkey supposed to do than giving people diplomatic passports who aren't even Turkish citizens, huh?? Then they also completely ignored vast majority of KRG's trade travel through Turkey including 95% of their oil exports and this was the only reason KRG could survive so long. Then comes ''Turkey using PKK as an excuse to attack YPG'' nonsense, while in reality there are around TWO THOUSAND PKK terrorists in YPG's ranks, in fact even the commander of YPG is a ''former'' PKK terrorists called Mazloum Abdi! This isn't a secret or anything, just search his name you would see he is a known PKK terrorist, but no worries according to our ''trustworthy'' allies he retired being a terrorist and he is a democratic hero now!! Turkey will never ever accept this moronity, while the only way PKK terrorists can be declared innocent they will surrender and apologize to the people that they killed thousands of them. Until it happens Turkey will continue targeting them in every opportunity or YPG can cut it's ties with PKK, in fact Turkey actually asked it from US many times before starting operations against them which was ofc forgotten again! However with even it's commander being a PKK terrorist i guess it is extremely unlikely they can cut ties or could be even called seperate organizations...
PS: There aren't 30-40 million Kurdish people living Kurdistan, for example over 12 million Kurdish people out of Turkey's around 18 million Kurdish minority live in WESTERN Turkey not in Kurdistan. While the biggest Kurdish city in the world isn't Erbil, Sanadaj or Diyarbakır rather ISTANBUL with 3 million Kurdish population! They could at least research about populations properly but nope! By the way even if im a Turkish person im fully supporting a Kurdish state they suffered a lot especially in Iraq and we would rather having a border with a Kurdish state than Iraqis or Syrians. But a KURDISH state not a terrorist state, we will never ever support such a country and even fight against it's forces as long as those PKK terrorists are in charge..
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
-Noam Chomsky
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Sadly this was nothing but a biased nonsense from western people who know very little about Turkey, it's history and problems! Don't worry i will explain all major subjects;
1. For understanding Turkish revolutionaries era you must learn about the wars first and what they did to the country. ''Humanist'' western historians would never stop talking about Christian casualties during WW1 and Turkish war of independence while they would ALWAYS ignore Muslim/Turkish casualties simply because they can't claim genocide etc nonsenses if they add Muslim population of Anatolia dropped from 13 million in 1914 to 10 million in 1923 to the picture!! Im not a biased joke so i won't claim all those 3 million people were killed by atrocities of Entente forces and their proxies but according to even Entente sources at least 300,000 were indeed killed while the rest died because of Spanish flu, severe lack of food and medicine in Ottoman and because of the war directly. So Turkish revolutionaries literally inherited a giant graveyard from Ottoman with millions of casualties, there was no economy left to speak of, the largest and most important city of the country was completely burned down (Nope, Istanbul wasn't the largest city of Ottoman for several centuries rather it was Smyrna/İzmir which was actually 4 times larger) that's why the revolutionaries adopted isolationist policies and tried to fix country's severe problems as fast as possible. And it is completely false Ataturk was pro-western, in fact he has speeches where he criticized the western world, after all the guy spent half of his life fighting against western countries. Rather he was pro-modern and tried to modernize Turkey from successful examples ofc. For example his reforms weren't only similar to western ones also socialist ones and that was actually the reason why Soviet union saw this new government as a possible ally and strongly supported Turkish revolutionaties but there isn't anybody claiming Ataturk was socialist! Even today Turkey is a little bit socialist country and government can intervene to free market etc, for example during covid outbreak mask prices became too high then government severely reduced their allowed sell price..
This was also why Turkey didn't join WW2 because in 1940 Turkey's population was only 17 million and around 7 million of them were under 16 years old. Imagine a country with 40% children population going war against military giants like Germany?? Nope, there was no option but staying neutral as long as possible. It took decades that Turkey's economy grew and with better living standarts population exploded especially during 70s and 80s. So erdogan didn't change Turkey that's just visionlessness, rather Turkey as a whole is changing and accordingly it's policies. For example even with current currency crisis Turkish industry is larger than Russia (Russia still has more high tech production) which wasn't the case for centuries.
2. ''Protesters were crashed during Gezi incident'' was completely false in every way. It is correct the government tried to crash the protest with police brutality same as ENTIRE WORLD (Care to share how many people got killed during BLM protest, huh ''honest'' westerners? You can't because it is many times higher than Gezi protest) but it backfired so badly. After seeing brutal police action tens of thousands joined the protest and even began attacking police forces that people were first beating police then carrying them to hospital so they wouldn't die. 231 police vehicles were destroyed and over 900 police officers were wounded, it became so bad police had to use fire arms and turn the protest into a civil war or just back down. The government chose latter and entire police force was called back while people kept protesting peacefully and in few days everything calmed down. So erdogan actually didn't gain anything during Gezi protest let entirely go ''becoming one-man ruler'' which is just so laughable, however AKP learned they couldn't achieve anything with force and began planning law changes which was the new presidential system. In 2017 nationwide referandum the presidential system was accepted by 51.4% of votes which actually made erdogan one-man ruler, however same as other presidential systems like US parliament has to aprrove presidential decisions but AKP + MHP coalition has the majority in the parliament so whatever he decides is approved sadly.
3. Gülen wasn't a recent ally of erdogan at all rather they were together since AKP party was first established. There were always a lot of right wing Islamists in Turkey's entire history, even while the grand national assembly was abolishing Ottoman in 1922 there were Islamist and Ottomanist MPs yelling and objecting!! The problem was they couldn't unite under one party often and rather dividing their votes with seperate parties as not all Islamists or neo-ottomanists were or are same. It was again same before AKP that moderate Islamists were following Erbakan while more conversative ones gülen, erdogan was a follower of Erbakan and because he was mayor of Istanbul for two terms who could unite those parties and more Islamists/conversatives under AKP party. He gave gülen supporters positions in the government and military in exchange for their support while republican generals were protesting as gülen members weren't trustworthy and because of that they were being targeted by erdogan government. But after the coup atempt it was proven they were completely right and charges against them were dropped while outcast ones were allowed to return their positions. So the purge in the military wasn't agaisnt republican generals at all rather gülen members alone that dumb erdogan put them there at first place, in fact current secretary of defence Hulusi Akar is actually a republican general who had problems with erdogan in the past. So how exactly two rival sides are trusting each others now, right? I wouldn't call it trusting rather it is enemy of my enemy is my friend relation. Even if ''genius experts'' in the west completely ignore the severe destabilization of Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan etc caused Turkey to loose hundreds of lives and hundreds of billions dollars with huge tourism, trade and refugee problems. Then most probably US backed regime change atempt was the last drop for republican generals and AKP to drop their differences and work for Turkey, it's been always same if there is an external threat Turkish people wouldn't care about their domestic problems.
4. This brings us to those external threats, first of all i have no idea how exactly any westerner could belive American administrations including biden are working for democracy, people etc nonsenses? You grew up in disneyland and never see the world with your own eyes??? If we return to the real world from this fairy tale US invaded countries literally EVERY DECADE and even more so sometimes while leaving pretty much ALL OF THEM in extremely devastated state with huge destabilization, terrorism and humanitarian problems. So a sane person can not claim US does everything right and one of the most affected countries is Turkey which is the main reason why Turkish public not only erdogan supporters insanely became anti-US in recent years and relations are so bad. But ofc with so many ''mistakes'' and even literally civilians falling off from American planes while they are ''saving'' the world the west could still blame it on Turkey and claim it is Turkey which is destabilizing the region. Please get offended you are a moron if you could believe it. There were 11 wars in last 50 years in Turkey's neighbours and Turkey didn't start a single one of them while often had to involve later on to help relatives or to stabliize region and prevent it becoming a nest for terrorists with military operations. And according to UN conventions Turkey has such a right very well which is why so ''honest'' and ''humanist'' westerners can't take any action against those operations expect tons of lies in media and perception management ofc..
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@jimnewt2138 I think i stated what was wrong quite clear but still i will explain it further. There is nothing wrong with favouring your own, pretty much every nation does that to a degree. Even if racism isn't common they might still do that as it is easier to trust somebody sharing your culture, it is simple human nature. For example foreigners face discrimination pretty much in every level in Japan especially if they didn't learn Japanese including Kanji which is quite hard for foreigners. And Japanese people openly state immigrants must adopt their culture, it is their country and they have a right to demand that regardless it is wrong or right. But do westerners openly state immigrants must adopt their cultures, huh?? Ofc not otherwise how exactly you will claim you are so liberal, humanist etc! So in every single official or unofficial material from media to government you act like immigrants and their cultures will be respected but then act against them if they didn't adopt your cultures which is nothing but a wicked hypocrisy!! For example lets look at Germany, shall we? Listen to every single German chancellor that they brag about their liberalism, humanism, democracy, how EU was established to defend human values bla bla then forbid dual citizenship in Germany! Where did those ''European human rights'' disappear exactly?? These two faced policies make it wrong without any question, if western countries were honest about it there would be far less immigrants heading that way, there would be far less racism in the west but European economies would shrink a lot which is the whole reason keeping false advertisement..
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I would completely agree to your message if Armenians were any honest about what really happened to them and what they did during that time but sadly they are not at all!! For understanding what really happened we should ask the question why 1915 and not 1905, 1815 or even 1115?? Yeah, that's right those Armenians kept living under Turkish empires for exactly 843 years while still preserving their religion, language and culture!! But ''suddenly'' Ottoman decided to displace or even ''genocide'' them in 1915 according to some ''historians'' who completely ignore Russian empire invaded entire eastern Turkey in 1914, same Russian empire which killed hundreds of thousands in Crimea and displaced over a million people to Ottoman that it is estimated 6 million Turks in Turkey today are descendance of Crimean Tatars or same Russian empire which killed a million people in Circassia in 1864!! And these Russian/Armenian forces controlled entire eastern Turkey including all majority Armenian and many Turkish majority cities until 1918 so while Ottoman was ''genociding'' Armenians in reality Ottoman wasn't even controlling a single Armenian majority city!! But ofc this wasn't enough to achieve Russian goals so they encouraged remaining Ottoman Armenians to rebel against the empire so Ottoman would be weakened more and they could push westwards to establish ''the greater armenia'' which was going to stretch from Adana to Trabzon and Baku!! But there was a huge problem ofc that vast majority of those lands were Turkish majority anymore and Ottoman Armenians were only 4% of Ottoman population but after a series of Ottoman defeats in 1914 especially at Sarikamis Ottoman Armenians believed they had a change and rebelled against Ottoman while starting to attack both Ottoman army and Turkish civilians!! That exactly same senario was happening all around eastern Turkey and Caucasus and Turkish civilians were targeted from Baku (31 March massacre) to Yerevan, that's right the Armenian capital had 40% Turkish population who were ''peacefully'' vanished according to those the most ''trustworthy'' Armenians!! Here is a western academic writing about the subject which says hundreds of thousands Turkish civilians got killed during WW1 and afterwards:
http://www.academia.edu/35312332/Revisiting_the_Fire_of_Izmir
But it turned out Ottoman wasn't that weak which issued a forceful displacement of Armenian population to end their rebellion and sadly around 300,000 Armenians died during this forceful displacement to Lebanon and Syria because of atrocities, diseases and lack of supplies. While despite nonsense in western media Ottoman never ever ordered a genocide nor even refused Ottoman atrocities, in fact it is quite the opposite as Ottoman both recognized all atrocities against Armenians and also tried punish everybody responsible that hundreds of Ottoman officials got punishments including death penalty that even an Ottoman governer was executed for his crimes!! While how many Armenians who killed innocent Turkish civilians got any kind of punishment??? ZERO...
Then as a poetic justice Russian civil war began in late 1917 which weakened Russian forces greatly and Ottoman started a great counter-offensive in 1918, not only capturing entire eastern Turkey also pushing into Iran, Azerbaijan and even Dagestan while clearing all Russian and British forces from the region which is why all Caucasus countries declared their independence in 1918!! After Ottoman surrendered in WW1 all forces were called back and Armenia was still twice larger than today while even holding some Turkish majority cities like Kars but it wasn't enough again so Armenia declared war on Turkey in 1920 with the hope of establishing ''the greater armenia'' which was also recognized in treaty of sevres even if entire region was Turkish majority. However at the end they were defeated again and Armenia got reduced into a tiny state as it is today so care to explain please what exactly we Turks owe Armenians??? I think it is quite the opposite as they owe a lot to us due we weren't greedy people like them and let them live freely for 843 years while they couldn't do that for even few years.
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@thattubechannel First of all your assumptions suggest you don't know much about Turkey nor Turkish people. As nobody is trying to justify it, in fact both Ottoman and Turkey officially accepted there were war crimes and Ottoman officials were tried and even punished with death penalty including an Ottoman governer! Turkey and vast majority of Turkish people are only against re-writing history like Ottoman targeted ''peaceful'' Armenians only because they were Armenians therefore it was a genocide but it couldn't be more false. I suggest you to read manifesto of Kajaznuni who was the first PM of Armenia and was living in Van city of Ottoman during their rebellion. He states very openly that they began preparing for a rebellion even before Ottoman joined WW1, they were a russian proxy as they believed russian empire was going to liberate them and even says if they didn't rebel perhaps Ottoman wasn't going to target them! He also talks about russian betrayel, soviet invasion of Armenia etc, a must read and you would realize the scale of Armenian rebellion. As Turks we know the scale of it as we don't only read history, we literally live in it! My father's village in central Anatolia quite far from Armenian majority regions but still in the area Armenian militia operated and i've heard many stories from elders there who lived through it. Armenian militia attacking Turkish villages burning them down, next day Turkish militia attacking Armenian villages. So it wasn't a small minority of Armenians starting a rebellion rather it was a full blown civil war and that's why Ottoman decided to displace them and cut their weapon and supply routes from russian empire to suppress their rebellion.
So it is just a weak narrative to claim there is a parallel between our actions and western colonialism. Some African tribes were never a threat to British empire, Indians were never a threat to Americans, Spanish empire never had to invade central America and begin a sacking campaign through it! They only did that to enrich themselves and fabricated ''spreading civilization'' moronity later on to refuse their genocides even if every single colony on Earth is in far worse conditions than non-colonized countries..
Perhaps it is lack of history knowledge which makes you think there is a parallel, especially if you are taking today's Turkey into consideration so let me state some facts. In 1914 there were 13 million Muslims living in Anatolia which includes Kurdish and Arabic minorities. While there were 6 million Greeks and 4.5 million Armenians despite living under ''terrible conditions'' for centuries. On the other hand russian empire had 164 million, UK 46 million and France 39 million population while literally over a billion with their colonies. So Entente powers really believed they could carve up even Anatolia not just Arabia etc. Russian empire really had an objective to capture Constantinople even during WW1! And as a result Muslim population of Anatolia dropped from 13 million in 1914 to 10.5 million in 1923 that you can not find ''neutral'' western historians talking about this anywhere as it doesn't serve their interests!! Don't worry i won't begin a self dramatisation and crying like some others, we came from infertile valleys and deserts of central Asia and if this is the price of heavenly Anatolia we would pay it again. So it all comes to persective, you are only looking one side of the coin and thinking you know the other side but nope, you have no idea. We didn't invade Anatolia in 1915 rather we did so in 1071 over 800 years before that. And had every opportunity to assimmilate or genocide Armenians but we chose to allow them literally rule themselves, operate their own institutions and even issue their own laws. Even then our reward was this moronity, still doesn't matter we know who we are and we couldn't care less what westerners or other nations think of us. We are one side you are another, this is how world works even if it is quite primitive..
I will just ignore ''Islamic civilization collapsing'' part as it was mostly the fault of Arabs. I really don't like being prejudiced towards any nation but do you know who hates Arabs the most? Other Arabs! They are so cruel to each others it is beyond any understanding.
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@Armagedon013 Read my message again please and quote me where exactly i said ''SNA is comprised of only Turkmen fighters''?? Rather i said the opposite as after 2018 Turkey started to back more FSA groups and formed SNA from them!! It is true isis used Turkish border to smuggle both oil and their members who did dozens of terrorist attacks in Turkey which didn't only kill hundreds of innocent people also caused billions of dolars tourism damage until Turkey built 4 meter high and 911 long wall to Syrian border!! So you people are literally claiming ''Turkey was supporting isis while there were dozens of isis attacks happening in Turkey'' and you think it is a logical thing to claim, SERIOUSLY???
Same goes for claiming ''Turkey smuggling route was most of the income of isis'' as it isn't true at all because like how vast majority of them were Iraqis their main income was also coming from Iraq such as they seized hundreds of million dolars worth gold, foreign currency, equipments when they captured Mosul!! While Iraqi army didn't even try to defend the city which would at least provide necessary time to evacuate both people and those resources!!! But nope, it is Turkey's fault that we couldn't defend every inch of 911 km long border therefore supported isis somehow..
Turkey is very publicly confirming sending SNA mercenaries to Libya and military equipments to GNA, even sharing photos and videos of them so i will just ignore the part you talk about ''well proven'' and continue with Turkey making the Libyan civil/proxy war worse;
You people always talk about the democratic values, liberalism and humanism then somehow you are claiming a warlord like haftar was ''the best choice'' for Libya which is just laughable as it is completely against those values ''you so dearly defend''!! Perhaps you will try to defend haftar isn't a warlord but in reality he literally claimed he was ''the legitimate leader of Libya'' in May even if no civil authority elected him in any way!! It was such a ridiculous announcement even his ally Russia refused it and stated he is not legitimate leader of Libya so he is a warlord without any question at all and even if he won the war Libyan people were going to keep suffering under his rule exactly same as what is happening in Egypt under sisi rule!! That the most ''humanist'' and ''liberal'' France loves sisi so much for bringing ''democracy'' to Egypt even if dozens of Egyptians are getting executed, disappearing or tortured including even children it is just ''a small price'' for ''democracy'', right??? Here is a very very long article from HRW that i advise you to read fully then you would realize what kind of country France is:
https://www.hrw.org/report/2020/03/23/no-one-cared-he-was-child/egyptian-security-forces-abuse-children-detention
Now lets look how many politicians or journalists killed under ''dictator'' erdogan rule? ZERO!!..
Then there must be dozens of politicians or journalists who disappeared, right?? ZERO!!..
Then those ''political'' prisoners are getting tortured in Turkish prisons due erdogan is a dictator for sure??? NOPE, those prisoners can not only see their relatives, friends, lawyers etc they can even apply to European Court of Human Right so Turkey can't torture them without half of the world knowing about it!! In fact there isn't a single CHP politician who got arrested even if they are the biggest rival of AKP party rather only Kurdish politicians are getting arrested for ''a bizarre reason'' but perhaps that 'a bizarre reason'' is supporting a terrorist organization called PKK that not only Turkey considers as terrorists rather dozens of countries including entire EU?? Imagine a politician in US calling binladen a hero and claiming his terrorist attacks were for freedom, seriously what would happen??? He would be arrested and charged with supporting terrorism exactly same as Turkey does..
Here comes the last one ''Turkey acts against Kurds as it fears Kurdish separatism'' but Turkey ''fears'' Kurdish separatism so much which is why Turkey is the biggest supporter of KRG for decades, right??!! In fact vast majority of KRG exports and imports travel through Turkey not Iraq including 95% of their oil exports due Iraq is paying them a fixed amount for their oil while Turkey offers them market prices such as here is a Kurdish source about their oil exports where you can see they earned 25 dolar a barrel through Iraq while they earned 41 dolars via Turkey:
https://www.kurdistan24.net/en/economy/df39b0f2-d3d3-4353-b757-bfe04b2ba36a
So if Turkey really wanted to hurt Kurds all it needed to do was just closing border gates then KRG would go bankrupt within just months!! Then what is Turkey's problem with ''Kurds'' in Syria?? First of all even Kurds themselves don't call them just ''Kurds'' rather YPG or PKK, yep same PKK that entire Europe considers as terrorists!! But don't worry they don't ''exist'' in Syria and here is a BBC article explaining how they are fighting in Syria:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28925179
So they were really in Syria but then left?? Nope, they just merged with YPG while after a simple name change (SDF) western coalition started to claim they don't exist but nope, they do exist in Syria and Turkey will continue targeting SDF until at least they are expelled from it!! Also Turkey doesn't occupy a single region in Syria where Kurds are majority such as Afrin where even pro-Kurdish sources like France24 were claiming the city was 50% Kurdish before the Turkish operation but afterwards it became ''vast majority Kurdish'' for obvious reasons!! Don't believe me, go check Syrian demography maps and compare it to Turkish controlled areas and here are some more sources if you still have any doubt (Including some Kurdish sources about their relation with PKK)
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/menasource/the-ypg-pkk-connection/
https://www.rudaw.net/english/kurdistan/230220165
https://www.rudaw.net/english/kurdistan/100520181
You people are literally living in a bell jar watching how ''righteous'', ''humanist'', ''liberal'' etc the west is and actually believing in a delusion anymore without having any idea what is really happening in the world...
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There were very accurate points and also complete nonsenses sadly, for example one of them was claiming Turkey is trying to settle Syrian refugees to northern Syria and separate Kurdish people!! But it is completely baseless due Kurdish people already don't live in southeastern Turkey rather all around Turkey, in fact 12 million Kurdish people out of Turkey's 18 million Kurdish minority live in WESTERN Turkey and the biggest Kurdish city in the world isn't Diyarbakir, Erbil, Sanandaj rather Istanbul with 3 million Kurdish population!! So anybody saying there is a Kurdish question in Turkey has no idea what he is talking about due Turkish and Kurdish people are way more mixed than even some minorities in western countries like Catalan-Spanish or Scottish-British!! So it is why vast majority of Kurdish people don't want independence rather live together as we did for many centuries but Kurdish nationalists see this as the death of their nation because there are over 2 million marriages between Turks and Kurds and most of them especially Kurds living in western Turkey do not teach Kurdish to their children. But this has nothing to do with Turkey and there are similar problems from Wales to Britanny!! Even then ofc it is ''a crime of the government'' so there is a terrorist organization fighting for independence who were marxist at begining then after soviet union collapsed they became democratic but in reality they are only extreme nationalists who don't hesitate targeting civilians including Kurdish civilians as they did hundreds of times..
Turkey's overall power increase has nothing to do with the collapse of soviet union nor erdogan regime rather we have to look why exactly Ottoman/Turkey was weak!! In 1914 there were only 13 million Muslims living in Anatolia which includes both Kurdish minority and displaced Turkic people from Crimea and Balkans. While there were 166 million people living in Russian empire, 67 million in Germany, 99 million in US and UK and France were controlling hundreds of millions people with their colonies. So Ottoman literally had less population than some small colonies and ofc it got even worse that during WW1 3 million Muslims lost their lives because of spanish flu and other diseases, WW1 casualties and atrocities (Yeah, Turkish civilians got targeted as well and hundreds of thousands were killed) which is completely ignored by western media for obvious reasons. So there were only 10 million Muslims in Anatolia in 1919 and they had to fight another 4 years during Turkish war of independence, at the end Turkey inherited a giant graveyard from Ottoman and made necessary reforms to save the nation not make it strong at all. It is also wrong claiming Ataturk took western countries as examples because he didn't at all, in fact there are many speeches where he disliked western countries rather he tried to make Turkey a modern country not western. Turkey also made many modern changes before western countries like gave women right to vote decades before than many western countries including even France. But those reforms were only enough to save the nation so Turkey remained as an isolationist country for decades. For example some historians claim Turkey didn't want to join WW2 but in reality it should be ''Turkey couldn't join WW2'' because there were only 17 million people population in 1940 that 6 million of them were under 14 years old..
In time Turkish population started to grow rapidly and reached 82 million today and accordingly the country's industralization and economy power also increased. And if there were smarter governments in the past Turkey was a superpower already but sadly there weren't and Turkey's development always had back and forths which isn't any different today. Even if AKP made correct decisions in some areas like supporting arms industry they also did moronic things like increasing imports for reducing street price so they could get more votes from poor people!! This increased imports and the huge trade deficit is the real reason why Turkish lira is loosing value. So it isn't 100% that Turkey will become a superpower but most probably, even then the biggest challenge won't be other superpowers or economy etc rather it will be again Turkish people because vast majoirty of us don't want Turkey to become a superpower so it can invade other countries, dictate other people what to do etc rather we want wicked wars to stop!! You people perhaps enjoy it while watching the war and atrocity news from thousands of miles away while we experience every terrible side effect from suffering of those people to refugees and targetting of those terrorist organizations so it is true vast majority of Turkish people became anti-US not just erdogan supporters and western alliance is collapsing...
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This was mostly correct but there were some huge mistakes and clear bias through it, for example in Ottoman religious minorities could operate their own religious institutions, their own government institutions, their own schools, their own courts, they could even issue their own laws! Care to share which European empire gave such rights to any religious minority? But even then they were still ''persecuted'', i really wonder how exactly. Jizya tax was very very small price for having such rights and it wasn't even a high tax, for example wealthier regions like Greece never had any problems paying Jizya tax for over 500 years while only really poor regions like Serbia struggled to pay it so blood tax was collected instead. And those children perhaps were taken forcefully but they weren't becoming slave soldiers at all. They were receiving 4 years long education and depending on their success they were receiving further education and becoming Ottoman officials or were enlisted into Janissary corps which was receiving one of highest salaries among all Ottoman standing army but they were still ''slaves'' somehow..
Also claiming Muhammad Ali Pasha was a bashi-bazouk is a massive mistake, i really wonder where he could learn such a thing! Ali Pasha was an Albanian who received at least 10 years of education to become a ''general'' (Pasha is actually a Turkish rank close to general) to lead armies and govern provinces. But he indeed raised a small army of Albanians as bashi-bazouks. There was never an official Ottoman unit as bashi-bazouks but especially during war times Pashas were often raising irregular armies as bashi-bazouks so it just means irregular soldiers.
As one of correct information, the infighting between Arabic tribes had been quite common as mostly Arabs were ruling themselves not Ottoman which allowed a lot of powerplay between tribes. In late 18th century first Saudi rebellion happened along with their radical ideology, same as their late atrocities they were quite brutal burning down towns and slaughtering ''non-Muslims'' as they wished. Ottoman ordered Ali Pasha to raise a large army in Egypt and end their rebellion. Ali Pasha did so without much resistance from Saudis but he had a large intact army now while Ottoman was quite weak so he decided his payment wasn't enough and asked for more by force. He never ever became ruler of Egypt, this is another huge mistake ''history channels'' are often making. Muhammad Ali Pasha remained as OTTOMAN GOVERNER of Egypt even after defeating Ottoman, only became governer of Syria etc as well. Ottoman attacked him back only few years later but didn't remove him from his position entirely only revoked his governship from other regions while he and his dynasty remained as governers of Egypt. Even in 1914 Egypt was still officially a part of Ottoman until WW1 began then British finally ended it by using the war as an excuse.
As last even this map isn't enough to explain struggle in the region as more and more foreign powers kept always involving, for example Russian empire's invasion of Caucasus changed power balance entirely and Armenians became a russian proxy since then. It was somehow claimed that Armenian population disappeared because of genocide but it is completely false as in 1914 Russian empire invaded eastern Turkey so Ottoman wasn't even controlling Armenian majority cities in 1915 rather they were under control of RUSSIAN EMPIRE! After Ottoman defeats against russian empire Armenians wrongly believed Ottoman was about to collapse and rebelled as a russian proxy in late 1914. But ofc they were wrong and Ottoman displaced them into Syria and Lebanon to suppress their rebellion then most of them decided to migrate into Russian empire over Caucasus mountains. The whole point of this displacement was moving Armenians away from front lines with russian empire which was supplying them arms but ofc even Armenian rebellion is somewhat forgotten thanks to re-writing history efforts and ''historians'' like this guy..
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@thattubechannel Once again you are trying to twist what i said to serve your narrative which is just a weak argument tactic if you ask me! I've never ever said they deserved it but very clearly they weren't targeted because they were Christians or ethnic minorities rather because they literally rebelled against the empire therefore that ''Ottoman always persecuted minorities'' claim is just false. For example Georgians also spent hundreds of years under Ottoman rule, Georgians also declared independence and fought against Ottoman but the biggest difference was Georgians didn't become russian, british, french proxies while claiming a massive country from Caspian sea to Black sea! Rather they only claimed where they were majority and fought against both Ottoman and Russian empire for their lands! At the end Georgians got twice larger country than Armenians with half of their population which tells a lot about what Armenians did wrong..
Comparing Arabic Jizya tax and Ottoman Jizya tax is a huge mistake, Arabs never had a system like Millet system offering so many rights to minorities, in fact some of them didn't even consider religious minorities as citizens at all! So they were paying Jizya tax to live in the country basicly. I also never claimed Ottoman did everything right, Ottoman economic system was just terrible and it was one of main reasons why the empire fell so far behind European empires in it's last century or two. Ottoman could also offer more autonomy to minorities like British empire did but this had a condition that we have to mention. European empires needed to give Ottoman such a chance but instead they jumped into partitioning Ottoman wagon and armed every single minority they could find and encouraged them to rebel. Ottoman didn't have seperated populations rather from Athens to Yerevan from Istanbul to Alexandria all had mixed populations. I think you are smart enough to guess what would happen if you arm minorities and release them to establish their country in a such mixed envoirement, huh? Literally MILLIONS were slaughtered or displaced in Balkans, Caucasus and even Anatolia that according ENTENTE SOURCES more than 300,000 Muslim civilians were killed by your ''innocent'' rebels!! I really wonder if you were going to accept there was a Turkish genocide if we lost the war and we were displaced from Anatolia, were you??? You can not make us genociders only because we won the war especially against wicked empires like russians, it is just that simple. We aren't accepting it nor will ever accept it even 1000 years later. If you want to recognize and condemn all atrocities our doors are open but i really doubt it, you westerners have quite twisted understanding of human values...
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German civilians who were killed during Holocaust? Zero.
Russian civilians who were killed during Circassian or Crimean genocides? Zero.
Japanese civilians who were killed during ''war crimes'' in China? Zero.
Belgian civilians who were killed during Congolese genocide? Zero.
Spanish civilians who were killed during Aztec genoice? Zero.
British civilians who were killed during 1857 rebellion of India? Few hundred.
American civilians who were killed during Native American genocide? Few thousand.
Turkish civilians who were killed during ''Armenian genocide''?? HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS...
This alone shows how insanely the subject is politicized and i wonder when exactly a single western country will officially recognize a single of their genocides against innocent Africans, Native Americans and Asians??? Never i guess as they already ''acknowledged those incidents'' while there is a huge difference between acknowledging and officially recognizing past events!! And sadly those countries never ever officially recognized their own atrocities even if they are quite enthusiastic about recognizing others and the worst of all according to this logic Turkey also acknowledged them!! Turkey will never ever recognize anything as long as Muslim casualties are completely ignored and worse even called ''Armenian resistance'' like it was women and children were targeting them so they were killed!!! In fact even how Russian empire invaded entire eastern Turkey in 1914 and encouraged Armenians to revolt is often ignored so they could claim Ottoman targeted ''peaceful'' and ''harmless'' people while in reality they revolted a year before their deportation.
Same goes with Crimean genocide which is called ''Crimean deportation'' even if hundreds of thousands died same as ''Armenian deportation'', seriously could you please explain why exactly one is just called deportation while other becomes a genocide, because Crimean Tatars were Muslims and Armenians were Christians??? Double standarts continue in everywhere from calling Japanese atrocities ''war crimes'', to reducing one of the worst colonial genocides to ''one mad man's actions'' like Congo. And the worst for us completely ignoring atrocities against Muslims in Balkans, Anatolia, Crimea and Caucasus!! Muslims ''peacefully'' disappeared from Morea, Crete, Crimea, Bulgaria, Armenia (Yep, even Armenian capital Yerevan had 40% Azerbaijani population), Circassia but only we Turks committed a genocide even if we never gave orders to our armies for killing civilians unlike Russian or Greek armies??? NOPE, even if entire world recognizes Armenian genocide Turkey will not as everybody unbiased can see this is just a political scheme, nothing about humanitarianism otherwise there wouldn't be such an extreme hypocrisy...
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@JamesKerLindsay What happened, you ran out of excuses? Or foreign support to Armenian militia is again ''irrelevant'' because they had to accept support from entente powers against ''Turkish attacks'', right?? Here is an Armenian official admitting everything in 1923, how they started preparations for war even BEFORE Ottoman joined WW1, how they were literally a proxy of Russian empire and followed their orders due they believed Russia was going to liberate them, how they claimed ''from sea to sea'' territories in Paris by foreign pressure as otherwise US wasn't going to accept them as a mandate, how Turks wanted to meet and confer before 1920 war but they refused because they believed they were going to win, literally everything is there that you are trying to ignore so badly:
tc-america .org/files/Katchaznouni.pdf
If you could remove your rose-coloured glasses for a second you could see European powers wanted to eliminate ''the Turkish threat'' once for all and used Armenians as a pawn in this wicked attempt and nope, Turks aren't guilty only because they could defend themselves!! This doesn't mean Armenian deportation wasn't a genocide, it could be still considered as a genocide but then you entente powers and Armenians will recognize Turkish genocide you committed due ''irrelevant'' nonsense doesn't make hundreds of thousands civilian deaths disappear at all!! But i seriously doubt there will be such a day due even the converted ones like you are still extremely biased. Even if i believe Turkey must remain as a western ally especially with UK, Spain, Italy and Germany i think this is the best relations there could be regardless which party rules Turkey due you people will never ever act fair nor reasonable against Turkey. Even if Turkey recognizes Armenian genocide and somehow agrees to completely ignore ''irrelevant'' Muslim casualties more genocides will be fabricated like Greek or Kurdish!! Even if in reality Turkey nor even Ottoman had anti-minority laws like anti-african laws in US which weren't changed as late as 60s or anti-aborigine laws in Australia which weren't changed as late as 70s (Anti-african laws in South Africa etc the actual list is very long)!! Rather Kurdish, Greek and Armenian people were always FULL-CITIZENS of Ottoman for 600 years which is how they could preserve their religion, language and culture for so long Turks will be still genocided them somehow!!! You might fool yourself as long as you wish but the reality is very obvious that western powers don't want an ally rather they want a puppet otherwise there will be always accusations against Turkey for political pressure and keeping it under control so everything is about the conflict of interests while you ''humanists'' are literally sleeping...
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@jimanast3593 During 3 AM i remembered Greek airspace wrongly as 12 miles not 10 miles, wuhuuuu it proves i'm wrong, right? Wrong! In fact none of you people refuse Greece is the only country on Earth with longer airspace than their territorial waters or borders which is a clear violation of international laws. And your claim it was mutually increased and accepted by Turkey is completely false. Greece increased its airspace from 3 miles to 10 miles with the 1931 Presidential decree, Turkey wasn't a part of this decision nor ever accepted it. It has absolutely nothing to do with agreements Turkey and Greece signed so only God knows where you could learn that.
Previous sea law convention called the 1958 Convention on the Territorial Sea is binding between Greece and Turkey and it gives less rights to islands. According to it Turkey can indeed claim an EEZ as far as median line between mainland Greece and Turkey while completely ignoring islands expect leaving them 12nm EEZ alone. Go read some unbiased articles if you still have doubts, there are American, British etc articles very clearly stating Turkey can do that. But as i said in my original message Turkey doesn't have such an intention as it doesn't worth severely damaging relations with our neighbor. There is nothing in Aegean it is heavy earthquake zone, stop daydreaming as 'rich natural resources' which aren't found yet and believing cheap propaganda.
There are conditions for innocent passage, for example Greece can stop and inspect every single one of our ships while delaying them for days if not weeks. Can also refuse passage of military ships and literally block our access to international waters. You are claiming Turkey is trying strengthen its position while care to explain what exactly Greece will gain from increasing its territorial waters, huh?? As i said earlier no country on Earth would accept this and there are many examples proving it. Like how countries have reduced territorial waters in Baltic sea to leave Russia an international corridor. How Finnish islands next to Sweden have reduced territorial waters and EEZ, how English islands next to France have reduced territorial waters and EEZ, how French islands next to Canada have reduced EEZ, how Ukrainian island next to Romania has reduced EEZ. But NOPE, Greek islands next to Turkey which are even closer to our lands than those examples must have FULL EEZ and territorial waters because its 'God's will' i guess!! Some people might think we are aggressive, threatening Greece etc while we are warning them, it will 100% cause a war..
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As Turkish army we sent our report to NATO about Leopard 2 needing 360 degree add-on armor protection years before Ukraine war. I really don't know what these civilians or politicians are talking about, in military community it should be a well known fact Leopard 2 protection is lacking. It isn't just Leos both Abrams and Challenger are also lacking protection, NATO's only frontal engagement doctrine isn't feasible anymore as there are threats coming from every direction as ATGMs, shells, drones, IEDs. For same reason both Abrams and Challenger have massive add-on packages covering all around. But for a bizarre reason Leos don't have such a package and worse both Abrams and Challengers were sent into Ukraine without their armor packages.
It is really sad to see Ukrainians slapping kontakt-1 on western tanks, desperately trying to increase their protection. This is a massive failure for the west, not a military one rather a political BS one which became so bad in recent years. There were so many "experts" and "genius" politicians blaming our casualties as our own fault instead of trying to learn from what we experienced. We lost 4 2A4s, two bombed by our own air force after had to be abandoned and captured by enemy in lightly damaged condition while other two were IEDs. It isn't a high number but we had 22 damaged 2A4s, any hit including 50 years old RPGs to sides is enough to disable the tank and it becomes a 60 ton toaster which had to be towed or abandoned. This is not acceptable and why Ukrainians are slapping whatever ERA they can find to their sides.
We faced Kornets, MILANs, even some Javelins and tons of drones in Syria too and as soon as i saw ''great" western tanks sent without armor packages, i knew there was going to be a lot of casualty footage. At least our EW abilities are far greater than Ukrainians or russkies so we could stop some threats and eliminate more by our armed drones. This is just ridiculous and political BS at its finest, americans and their brilliant ideas that Ukrainian men and women are paying for. We also see how their "mighty" ally struggles against half naked militants with historical artifact weapons, americans are just out of their minds, failures one after another..
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@Arshahan So you didn't object to anything i wrote rather claimed Armenia had to invade Azerbaijan to protect it's Armenian population, huh?? Hmm this is oddly similar i think another country used EXACTLY same ''justification'' very recently, which country was that? RUSSIAN FEDERATION and their invasion of Ukraine to protect Russian minority living there!! Did Ukraine or any country on Earth expect russian block consider Russian invasion as legitimate?? Nope, they don't and unlike your ridiculous claim UN never ever approved Armenian invasion of Azerbaijan neither rather always repeated that it was illegal and Armenian forces must stop illegally occupying Azerbaijan. However because most international community didn't put enough pressure on Armenia they were allowed to occupy 20% of Azerbaijan for 30 years. And yep, NK is only 7% of Azerbaijan which according to you Armenia had legal ground to occupy but care to explain please in what ground Armenia could occupy remaining 13% of Azerbaijan and displace over 800,000 of them living there??? You are just so full of cheap excuses, absolutely nothing else. You also completely ignore Armenia kept arming NK Armenians for decades before soviet union collapsed, you completely ignore there were many atrocities against Azerbaijanies not only surrounding oblasts of NK also in other regions of Armenia. For example Zengezur region had around 70% Azerbaijani population, even Armenian capital Yerevan had 40% care to explain where are those people today, huh??? You keep moronically claim Azerbaijan tried to ethnic cleanse NK while in reality Armenians are still living in NK today, on the other hand Armenia actually ethnic cleansed HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS Azerbaijanis. Such a joke you biased clowns are...
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Yeah, this was mostly neutral and accurate but there were some great mistakes like claiming majority of Turkish army remained loyal to erdogan which is completely false. Even today majority of Turkish army isn't loyal to erdogan rather the largest faction within army is republicans same as the largest opposition in the country CHP party. However they also stopped gulen led coup simply because it would cause a civil war. Nobody wants a civil war rather a democratic solution must be achieved. It is true there are islamists in Turkey but they wouldn't even make 10% of the population and islamist parties couldn't even pass 10% election threshold in the past! Until erdogan united conservatives from all sides not just islamists including nationalists and gulen party which did the coup because erdogan gave them positions in the army and government to convince them. So republicans which ruled Turkey mostly since it was established became around 30% opposition, however it is still republicans who hold the most power in Turkey from economy to the army! And that's why even if erdogan had majority vote to do literally everything he couldn't change republican laws at all. So it is just western moronity to claim ''Turkey will become an Islamic state'', in fact even Ottoman was the most moderate Islamic state out here that in it's entire 600 years long history a single woman was stoned after she admitted doing prostitution and challenging Ottoman laws publicly. While sadly hundreds of women are still stoned even today in so called ''the best allies of the west'' aka arabic kingdoms. Western policies are just full of wicked hypocrisy really and i don't care if we become enemies again, Turkey is our country and we will rule it according to our own wishes regardless it is bad or good. So i advice western people to mind their own business or perhaps actually try to fight radicalism for a change instead of arming and supporting wicked warlords, dictators, princes and kings like mbs, haftar etc..
Then comes straight out lies, it was never forbidden to speak Kurdish that how exactly it could be banned anyway, so moronic! Rather publishing books, operating radio and TV channels in other languages then Turkish was banned. So around two dozen etnicities were effected from this not just Kurds and those laws were changed decades ago, in fact Turkey is the only country on Earth Kurdish people are represented in it's parliment with their own party!! You could think 18 million Kurds want indepedence while Turkey suppressing so many people somehow but in reality 12 million Kurdish people out of that 18 million don't even live in eastern Turkey rather in WESTERN Turkey and the biggest Kurdish city in the world isn't Diyarbakır, Sanandaj or Erbil rather ISTANBUL with 3 million Kurdish population! There are also more than THREE million marriages between Turks and Kurds which shows those nations don't hate each other at all, in fact they are becoming one nation anymore!! And this is exactly what ultranationalist Kurds can not stomach as they see this great integration of two nations as the end of Kurdish nation therefore they launched ''a holy war to save it'' by severing ties between two nations. Luckly vast majority of both Turks and Kurds can see they would be living in far worse conditions if they were severed therefore PKK gets very little support from inside Turkey, mainly from uneducated Kurds from eastern Turkey. However PKK always received great support from outside, that's why they were marxists when it was first established and received great support from soviet union. After it collapsed they became Iranian proxies and fought against their ''Kurdish brothers'' in 90s during Kurdish civil war. After 2003 invasion of Iraq they suddenly became ''democratic Kurds'' and became US proxies even if same people rule PKK for decades and they didn't hold an election in their entire history anywhere on Earth. But ofc they are still somehow ''democratic'' according to uncle sam and ignorant people! So in short even if republicans became ruling party again nothing will change in Syria and Turkey will continue targeting so called ''US partners'' simply because they are actually terrorists. For example even the commander of YPG Mazloum Kobani is actually a PKK terrorist who ''retired'' from being a terrorist and became ''a good democrat'' according to our NATO ''allies'' . You might eat this BS and believe NATO countries are perfect rather it is just Turkey causing problems but it is really hard for us even if we don't support erdogan..
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@Greekdudea1a The last main battle between greeks and Turks:
Battle of Dumlupınar in 1922
Turkish side:
98,670 infantry
5,286 cavalry
323 artillery
0 (Zero) reserve
Greek side:
130,000 infantry
1,300 cavalry
348 artillery
70,000 reserve
Greek side also had more machine guns, ammunations, trucks, supplies, planes etc and greeks were positioned very well in a valley between two mountains and many hills. Even so the Turkish side was getting ready for a great offensive to end 3 years long greek campaign of invading Anatolia. Mustafa Kemal Ataturk decided to attack from the mountain to the south of greek trenches due greeks were very lightly defending that mountain because greek generals thought an assault from there wasn't possible!! He planned a great offensive from there while 2 infantry divisions and 1 cavalry division was going to penetrate through greek army according to spearhead doctrine, capture a series of hills in the valley and cut the greek army into 4 pieces!! But majority of Turkish soldiers climbed the mountain in the last night to avoid detection by greek planes and charged with first lights. Cavalry division successfully penetrated through greek lines and acted as a 'blitzkrieg' unit while completely destroying greek communication and supplies lines in 20 km behind the greek army. They also damaged the greek moral greatly due when greek soldiers saw Turkish cavalry so behind their lines they naively thought their front lines were fallen to Turks while the engagement was just starting and they started to retreat due they couldn't also communicate with their command!! On the other hand Turkish infantry had serious trouble penetrating through greek army for obvious reasons, first many of them were already tired because they climbed the mountain few hours ago and using infantry as spearheads in rough terrain which is full of hills was a little extreme military tactic even for us Turks even so infantry divisions penetrated most of greek army and captured a series of hills while greek army was using a little gap left in northern side to retreat and run from this slaughter!! Then cavalry division who were behind greek lines learned about the little gap left, charged upon retreating greeks and encircled them by capturing several hills!! So more than half of greek army got encircled between mountains and Turkish soldiers in the first day of battle, they fought only 3 more days then surrendered. At the end the great offensive only lasted 4 days, greek casualties were more than 60% while Turkish side only lost 10%!! Greeks could never reorganize in Anatolia again and retreated to the ports very irregularly while attacking Turkish civilians and burning Turkish villages and cities including even Smyrna because they couldn't stomach that their 3 years long campaign ended in only 4 days!! Here is a neutral French historian proves who burned Smyrna with using dozens of French sources:
http://www.academia.edu/35312332/Revisiting_the_Fire_of_Izmir
Another important fact that there were 6 million Greeks in 1920 while there were 10 million Turks that's how greeks could form a bigger army than we Turks due we were constantly fighting for 12 years including a war world but even if there were twice more greek soldiers the greek army still got badly slaughtered!! It is because you greeks are good at making nude sculptures while we Turks are many times better soldiers so you have absolutely no chance against us today while there are 80 million Turks against 10 million greeks!! So you greeks should just forget about defeating us ever again due you missed your last and only chance when we Turks were the weakest in last 1000 years long Anatolia history after this point you could only get slaughtered even way worse than Battle of Dumlupınar...
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
― Noam Chomsky
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Sadly this was nothing but a biased nonsense from western people who know very little about Turkey, it's history and problems! Don't worry i will explain all major subjects;
1. For understanding Turkish revolutionaries era you must learn about the wars first and what they did to the country. ''Humanist'' western historians would never stop talking about Christian casualties during WW1 and Turkish war of independence while they would ALWAYS ignore Muslim/Turkish casualties simply because they can't claim genocide etc nonsenses if they add Muslim population of Anatolia dropped from 13 million in 1914 to 10 million in 1923 to the picture!! Im not a biased joke so i won't claim all those 3 million people were killed by atrocities of Entente forces and their proxies but according to even Entente sources at least 300,000 were indeed killed while the rest died because of Spanish flu, severe lack of food and medicine in Ottoman and because of the war directly. So Turkish revolutionaries literally inherited a giant graveyard from Ottoman with millions of casualties, there was no economy left to speak of, the largest and most important city of the country was completely burned down (Nope, Istanbul wasn't the largest city of Ottoman for several centuries rather it was Smyrna/İzmir which was actually 4 times larger) that's why the revolutionaries adopted isolationist policies and tried to fix country's severe problems as fast as possible. And it is completely false Ataturk was pro-western, in fact he has speeches where he criticized the western world, after all the guy spent half of his life fighting against western countries. Rather he was pro-modern and tried to modernize Turkey from successful examples ofc. For example his reforms weren't only similar to western ones also socialist ones and that was actually the reason why Soviet union saw this new government as a possible ally and strongly supported Turkish revolutionaties but there isn't anybody claiming Ataturk was socialist! Even today Turkey is a little bit socialist country and government can intervene to free market etc, for example during covid outbreak mask prices became too high then government severely reduced their allowed sell price..
This was also why Turkey didn't join WW2 because in 1940 Turkey's population was only 17 million and around 7 million of them were under 16 years old. Imagine a country with 40% children population going war against military giants like Germany?? Nope, there was no option but staying neutral as long as possible. It took decades that Turkey's economy grew and with better living standarts population exploded especially during 70s and 80s. So erdogan didn't change Turkey that's just visionlessness, rather Turkey as a whole is changing and accordingly it's policies. For example even with current currency crisis Turkish industry is larger than Russia (Russia still has more high tech production) which wasn't the case for centuries.
2. ''Protesters were crashed during Gezi incident'' was completely false in every way. It is correct the government tried to crash the protest with police brutality same as ENTIRE WORLD (Care to share how many people got killed during BLM protest, huh ''honest'' westerners? You can't because it is many times higher than Gezi protest) but it backfired so badly. After seeing brutal police action tens of thousands joined the protest and even began attacking police forces that people were first beating police then carrying them to hospital so they wouldn't die. 231 police vehicles were destroyed and over 900 police officers were wounded, it became so bad police had to use fire arms and turn the protest into a civil war or just back down. The government chose latter and entire police force was called back while people kept protesting peacefully and in few days everything calmed down. So erdogan actually didn't gain anything during Gezi protest let entirely go ''becoming one-man ruler'' which is just so laughable, however AKP learned they couldn't achieve anything with force and began planning law changes which was the new presidential system. In 2017 nationwide referandum the presidential system was accepted by 51.4% of votes which actually made erdogan one-man ruler, however same as other presidential systems like US parliament has to aprrove presidential decisions but AKP + MHP coalition has the majority in the parliament so whatever he decides is approved sadly.
3. Gülen wasn't a recent ally of erdogan at all rather they were together since AKP party was first established. There were always a lot of right wing Islamists in Turkey's entire history, even while the grand national assembly was abolishing Ottoman in 1922 there were Islamist and Ottomanist MPs yelling and objecting!! The problem was they couldn't unite under one party often and rather dividing their votes with seperate parties as not all Islamists or neo-ottomanists were or are same. It was again same before AKP that moderate Islamists were following Erbakan while more conversative ones gülen, erdogan was a follower of Erbakan and because he was mayor of Istanbul for two terms who could unite those parties and more Islamists/conversatives under AKP party. He gave gülen supporters positions in the government and military in exchange for their support while republican generals were protesting as gülen members weren't trustworthy and because of that they were being targeted by erdogan government. But after the coup atempt it was proven they were completely right and charges against them were dropped while outcast ones were allowed to return their positions. So the purge in the military wasn't agaisnt republican generals at all rather gülen members alone that dumb erdogan put them there at first place, in fact current secretary of defence Hulusi Akar is actually a republican general who had problems with erdogan in the past. So how exactly two rival sides are trusting each others now, right? I wouldn't call it trusting rather it is enemy of my enemy is my friend relation. Even if ''genius experts'' in the west completely ignore the severe destabilization of Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan etc caused Turkey to loose hundreds of lives and hundreds of billions dollars with huge tourism, trade and refugee problems. Then most probably US backed regime change atempt was the last drop for republican generals and AKP to drop their differences and work for Turkey, it's been always same if there is an external threat Turkish people wouldn't care about their domestic problems.
4. This brings us to those external threats, first of all i have no idea how exactly any westerner could belive American administrations including biden are working for democracy, people etc nonsenses? You grew up in disneyland and never see the world with your own eyes??? If we return to the real world from this fairy tale US invaded countries literally EVERY DECADE and even more so sometimes while leaving pretty much ALL OF THEM in extremely devastated state with huge destabilization, terrorism and humanitarian problems. So a sane person can not claim US does everything right and one of the most affected countries is Turkey which is the main reason why Turkish public not only erdogan supporters insanely became anti-US in recent years and relations are so bad. But ofc with so many ''mistakes'' and even literally civilians falling off from American planes while they are ''saving'' the world the west could still blame it on Turkey and claim it is Turkey which is destabilizing the region. Please get offended you are a moron if you could believe it. There were 11 wars in last 50 years in Turkey's neighbours and Turkey didn't start a single one of them while often had to involve later on to help relatives or to stabliize region and prevent it becoming a nest for terrorists with military operations. And according to UN conventions Turkey has such a right very well which is why so ''honest'' and ''humanist'' westerners can't take any action against those operations expect tons of lies in media and perception management ofc..
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This was mostly neutral but there were still downplaying facts and some huge mistakes, for example PKK was so wickedly attacking civilians including even Kurdish civilians the second highest casualty in this conflict after terrorists themselves isn't Turkish army, police nor civilians at all rather it is actually KURDS, civilians and especially Kurdish village guards that PKK killed thousands of them! There are hundreds of villages in southeastern Turkey alone and because the region is extremely mountainous Turkish army couldn't protect all villages constantly and Kurdish villagers were becoming easy targets for PKK raids. As a solution the government trained and armed Kurdish civilians so they could defend themselves until the army arrived. I bet some people may think ''Kurdish'' PKK and Kurdish villagers didn't fight against each others but in reality it is terrorist PKK which was seizing their assests while calling it ''tax'' and even forcefully recruiting their children! So Kurdish village guards pretty much always fought against them even if they were greatly outnumbered, while PKK simply declared them as ''traitors'' and mercilessly killed thousands of them!! Especially in 90s their violence was out of control if a Kurdish intellectual could talk against PKK would be found dead in their homes. Suicide bombing attacks in public buses, squires, markets, stations, stadiums you name it and this is the reason why literally DOZENS of countries recognize PKK as a terrorist organization as they really are terrorists!! PKK isn't committing as many terrorist attacks as before doesn't prove they magically changed like some westerners claim. Rather it is mainly because they can not smuggle both arms and themselves through Turkish-Iraqi anymore because of constant surveillance by drones. In 90s the best Turkey could do was building border outposts along the mountanious border to literally watch the border with soldiers and several dozen soldiers in a mountain peak were often becoming a target themselves..
It is true KDP asked support from even saddam but they did that out of desperation, after years of infighting they were exhausted and with great Iranian support PUK was gaining upper hand. This was also the point PKK joined PUK alliance not after KDP asked support from Iraqi government, there is a timelapse for obvious reasons! It was also completely ignored after PUK territorial gains in 1997 Turkey invaded norhern Iraq with 60,000 soldiers as PKK alliance couldn't be allowed to win the civil war and gain huge support. Instead of the truth it is told like Barzani stopped the civil war by swinging his magical wand for obvious reasons. This Turkish intervention and ending the civil war in favour of KDP was also the reason why Turkey and Barzanis have been allies since then and 15 Turkish bases were built in KDP territories started from 1998 for training Peshmerga forces and providing security.
It is also a completely a false Turkey blocked KRG's access to the world, in fact both Barzani and Talabani also many Iraqi Kurds have TURKISH diplomatic passports so they can travel through Turkey freely and ask for support from other nations. What more Turkey supposed to do than giving people diplomatic passports who aren't even Turkish citizens, huh?? Then they also completely ignored vast majority of KRG's trade travel through Turkey including 95% of their oil exports and this was the only reason KRG could survive so long. Then comes ''Turkey using PKK as an excuse to attack YPG'' nonsense, while in reality there are around TWO THOUSAND PKK terrorists in YPG's ranks, in fact even the commander of YPG is a ''former'' PKK terrorists called Mazloum Abdi! This isn't a secret or anything, just search his name you would see he is a known PKK terrorist, but no worries according to our ''trustworthy'' allies he retired being a terrorist and he is a democratic hero now!! Turkey will never ever accept this moronity, while the only way PKK terrorists can be declared innocent they will surrender and apologize to the people that they killed thousands of them. Until it happens Turkey will continue targeting them in every opportunity or YPG can cut it's ties with PKK, in fact Turkey actually asked it from US many times before starting operations against them which was ofc forgotten again! However with even it's commander being a PKK terrorist i guess it is extremely unlikely they can cut ties or could be even called seperate organizations...
PS: There aren't 30-40 million Kurdish people living Kurdistan, for example over 12 million Kurdish people out of Turkey's around 18 million Kurdish minority live in WESTERN Turkey not in Kurdistan. While the biggest Kurdish city in the world isn't Erbil, Sanadaj or Diyarbakır rather ISTANBUL with 3 million Kurdish population! They could at least research about populations properly but nope! By the way even if im a Turkish person im fully support a Kurdish state they suffered a lot especially in Iraq and we would rather having a border with a Kurdish state than Iraqis. But a KURDISH state not a terrorist state, we will never ever support such a country and even fight against it's forces as long as those PKK terrorists are in charge..
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This was mostly correct but there were some huge mistakes and clear bias through it, for example in Ottoman religious minorities could operate their own religious institutions, their own government institutions, their own schools, their own courts, they could even issue their own laws! Care to share which European empire gave such rights to any religious minority? But even then they were still ''persecuted'', i really wonder how exactly. Jizya tax was very very small price for having such rights and it wasn't even a high tax, for example wealthier regions like Greece never had any problems paying Jizya tax for over 500 years while only really poor regions like Serbia struggled to pay it so blood tax was collected instead. And those children perhaps were taken forcefully but they weren't becoming slave soldiers at all. They were receiving 4 years long education and depending on their success they were receiving further education and becoming Ottoman officials or were enlisted into Janissary corps which was receiving one of highest salaries among all Ottoman standing army but they were still ''slaves'' somehow..
Also claiming Muhammad Ali Pasha was a bashi-bazouk is a massive mistake, i really wonder where he could learn such a thing! Ali Pasha was an Albanian who received at least 10 years of education to become a ''general'' (Pasha is actually a Turkish rank close to general) to lead armies and govern provinces. But he indeed raised a small army of Albanians as bashi-bazouks. There was never an official Ottoman unit as bashi-bazouks but especially during war times Pashas were often raising irregular armies as bashi-bazouks so it just means irregular soldiers.
As one of correct information, the infighting between Arabic tribes had been quite common as mostly Arabs were ruling themselves not Ottoman which allowed a lot of powerplay between tribes. In late 18th century first Saudi rebellion happened along with their radical ideology, same as their late atrocities they were quite brutal burning down towns and slaughtering ''non-Muslims'' as they wished. Ottoman ordered Ali Pasha to raise a large army in Egypt and end their rebellion. Ali Pasha did so without much resistance from Saudis but he had a large intact army now while Ottoman was quite weak so he decided his payment wasn't enough and asked for more by force. He never ever became ruler of Egypt, this is another huge mistake ''history channels'' are often making. Muhammad Ali Pasha remained as OTTOMAN GOVERNER of Egypt even after defeating Ottoman, only became governer of Syria etc as well. Ottoman attacked him back only few years later but didn't remove him from his position entirely only revoked his governship from other regions while he and his dynasty remained as governers of Egypt. Even in 1914 Egypt was still officially a part of Ottoman until WW1 began then British finally ended it by using the war as an excuse.
As last even this map isn't enough to explain struggle in the region as more and more foreign powers kept always involving, for example Russian empire's invasion of Caucasus changed power balance entirely and Armenians became a russian proxy since then. It was somehow claimed that Armenian population disappeared because of genocide but it is completely false as in 1914 Russian empire invaded eastern Turkey so Ottoman wasn't even controlling Armenian majority cities in 1915 rather they were under control of RUSSIAN EMPIRE! After Ottoman defeats against russian empire Armenians wrongly believed Ottoman was about to collapse and rebelled as a russian proxy in late 1914. But ofc they were wrong and Ottoman displaced them into Syria and Lebanon to suppress their rebellion then most of them decided to migrate into Russian empire over Caucasus mountains. The whole point of this displacement was moving Armenians away from front lines with russian empire which was supplying them arms but ofc even Armenian rebellion is somewhat forgotten thanks to re-writing history efforts and ''historians'' like this guy..
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As a Turkish person i can confirm this was 100% accurate, in fact Mehmed the conqueror actually claimed himself as the emperor of Roman empire and tried to invade Italy to re-establish Roman empire entirely. However soon after Ottoman gained a foothold in Italy he passed away and his successor didn't have such an ambition so it was abandoned. Westerns including even many western historians have a quite biased view of Ottoman, while in reality it was far more complex empire than shown to be. For example never in Ottoman history Sultans could do whatever they wanted nor they had some divine rights like European rulers. The true power was always at the hands of ''Dîvân-ı Hümâyun'', the imperial council of Ottoman. And it had hundreds of members, Greeks, Armenians, Arabs, Turks, Pashas, Viziers, both Christian and Muslim religious leaders you name it! Majority of Pashas were always Turkish, majority of Ottoman army was always Turkish but not the divan especially after 15th century. Early Ottoman rulers were extraordinary men who could influence the divan to support their will but later Ottoman rulers didn't have such a weight so they became puppets of the divan. Sultanate of women also happened in this time period as those Ottoman women had more weight in the divan than actual Sultans..
So it was really possible for Ottoman to become a successor of Roman empire if the divan also wanted it but the difference between western and eastern Roman empires wasn't only limited to their capital. Eastern Roman empire had vast majority Orthodox population and they didn't trust Catholics. There were even Serbian Princes etc fighting against Catholic crusades for same reason. Ottoman was an eastern empire and remained that way until it collapsed, it was strong because it embraced local populations and later it was weak because same local populations wanted their own countries anymore. Eventually the Turkish core of Ottoman army also turned agianst Ottoman and established Turkey as we know today. To be honest i always find western nonsense of ''Turks that, Turks this'' quite amusing as Ottoman wasn't even a Turkish empire, it was multi-cultural since 14th century until it's last day.
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Russia blames US, US blames China, China blames India, India blames Pakistan, Pakistan blames Israel, Israel blames Turkey, Turkey blames US, US blames Germany, Germany blames UK, UK blames France, France blames Turkey, Turkey blames Germany, Germany blames US, US blames Russia, Jesus i can keep this going literally FOREVER...
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@jeanmoulin1443 Sadly you aren't capable of removing your rose-coloured glasses and continue same ridiculous bias!! For example claiming ''wikipedia is neutral'' wasn't only biased and also quite funny due those ''neutral'' mods who are running wikipedia are from western countries and very clearly favouring sides. Same goes for ''source is a must'' claim because you can find citation needed warnings all over those pages!! Another joke was claiming wikipedia sources are reliable and trustworthy while in reality pretty much ALL of them are books and news articles not government documents etc!! So you literally end up claiming a random person's book that i shared is untrustworthy while another random person's book is trustworthy only because it is listed on wikipedia!! What about i list this ''random'' French historian's book on wikipedia will it become trustworthy then??? Yeah right, ''neutral'' mods of wikipedia wouldn't allow me list his book as it is against their view of historical events!!! Wikipedia aka BSpedia is a total joke which shouldn't be used more than learning dates and place names etc..
For example i really wonder where you learned ''3 million Armenian population in Ottoman''!! Because in reality Ottoman census in 1911 shows 1.7 million Armenian population, Ottoman census in 1914 shows 1.2 million Armenian population after Russian empire invaded eastern Turkey and many western historians accept Ottoman numbers as trustworthy or at least reasonable so care to share a source of 3 million Armenian population please??? Im sure you will share a wikipedia page with a citation needed warning or biased random books..
''Turkey must recognize it first because Turkey killed the most people''
Here once again you show your bias because Turkey didn't kill anybody rather OTTOMAN did which didn't have only Turkish officials rather also Kurdish, Arabic, Georgian etc. So you agree Ottoman had a multi-cultural government and say you knew Millet system but then claiming Turks/Turkey committed all the atrocities somehow??!! And even ''Ottoman killed the most people'' is questionable due according to official censuses from Ottoman to Russian empire there were 3.5 million Armenian people in 1911 and according to official censuses from Soviet union to USA there were 3 million Armenians in 1922!! So the difference is only 500,000 while you are somehow claiming ''it is OVER 1.5 million'' and the worst of all Armenians didn't only get forcefully displaced between 1911 and 1922 rather they also revolted and joined WW1 as a Russian proxy, joined Turkish war of independence as French and later Greek proxy and fought both in eastern Turkey and western Turkey!! Declared war on Turkey in 1920 and fought another war with their official army, plus many Armenians died because of Spanish flu and other diseases so the actual Armenian people who got killed by Ottoman atrocities could be as low as few hundred thousand. While did you ever wonder how many people Ottoman lost during WW1??? Ottoman lost 3 million people between 1911 and 1922 and Muslim population in Anatolia dropped from 13 million to 10 million!! Unlike your ridiculous bias i won't claim ''They all got genocided'' rather majority of them died because of WW1 battles, Spanish flu and other diseases etc but also hundreds of thousands got killed by Armenians and Greeks so you have absolutely no right to claim Turkey must recognize first unless you really think Christian lives more important!! You claim you don't think such a thing but even if i asked many times why exactly you ignored Turkish casualties, defended a nonsense as ''self-defense'' you didn't give me any reasonable answer therefore i have no option but to think you are really feeling that way and don't care about Turkish casualties as long as Christian ones are recognized..
''Why does Turkey apologizing first mean those atrocities will be forgotten?''
I have absolutely no idea how you could ask such a question while even you were claiming only few messages ago those Turkish casualties were ''self-defense'' and refusing there were atrocities against Turkish civilians, trying to claim ''A few Turks were killed'' etc??? The official stance of both Greece and Armenia are exactly same and they never ever admitted any wrongdoing and still acting like they never targeted Turkish people!! If they don't even admit any wrongdoing care to explain how exactly they will eventually apologize, huh??? On the other Turkey nor even Ottoman never refused there were atrocities unlike Greece or Armenia, in fact dozens of Ottoman officials faced trial for their wicked actions against civilians and got death punishment including an Ottoman governer!! While how many Armenians faced trial for their wicked actions against civilians??? ZERO!!! Both Armenia and Greece will continue ignoring Turkish casualties even if Turkey recognizes anything which is why Turkey can't do anything that before they do..
''There were Armenian, Greek, Assyrian genocides but no Turkish genocide''
Even if you finally accepted after like 10 messages there were serious atrocities against Turkish people sadly you are still trying to downplay it while in reality the definition of genocide is very clear:
''the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular nation or ethnic group.''
While Ottoman never ever gave orders to it's soldiers for killing civilians, still they gave orders for the displacement of Armenian people under terrible conditions and hundreds of thousands of them died!! It could be argued even if Ottoman didn't directly give orders to kill civilians they knew Armenians would die under these conditions therefore they committed a genocide. But do you know who gave orders to their soldiers for killing civilians??? THE GREEK ARMY which directly ordered it's soldiers to kill Turkish civilians after their defeat in battle of Dumlupınar and according to their orders Greek soldiers killed thousands of civilians and even burned down entire villages and towns while retreating so according to the definiton of genocide Greece committed a genocide against Turkish people without any question at all!! Will you once again refuse this, claim it was ''self-defense'' or lie as there wasn't such an order??? This is the real reason why Turkey can't recognize anything due your kind of people are really trying to turn Turkey into a scapegoat while ignoring all of atrocities and genocides other side committed!! I really wish all those atrocities and genocides could be recognized so we would make sure they will never happen again but sadly im 100% sure Greece and Armenia will never recognize their atrocities or genocides, im also sure you will refuse again and claim they will then i suggest you to go read your own messages where how you wickedly claimed killing civilians was ''self-defense'' etc!! The worst of all i could claim the same that Armenians revolted and began to target Turkish civilians so it was ''self-defense'' but thank God im not wicked enough to call killing innocent people ''self-defense''!!! You claim im making this argument out of control while nope, you are the one who is extremely biased and always trying to downplay the death of innocent people so i would strongly recommend you to reconsider your values...
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
-Noam Chomsky
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@ibrahimsafwat First of all i gotta really thank you for this hilarious message which amused me a lot, in fact i even bursted into laughter several times while reading it so lets look at those extremely amusing parts closer:
1- ''I served on the versions A4 and A5''
One message ago you were exactly saying ''When did i ever claim to be an expert?'' but now it became ''i served on A4 and A5s'' and you started to act like an expert but sadly many parts of your message is directly copy-paste from your links such as the paragraph which starts as ''On Jan. 21'' and has some technical details but it is actually from this link:
https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/has-the-leopard-changed-its-spots-the-real-reason-turkey-is-bogged-down-in-syria/
I guess even if somebody served on Leopard 2A4 and 2A5s still they can't learn any technical details about them and has to copy-pasting in order to look smart🤣🤣
2- ''Leopards DID participate during the YPG conflict''
You don't say!! But i was claiming Turkey didn't loose any Leopard 2s because Leopard 2s didn't parcitipate during those operations, seriously ''genius''??? LMAO!! I have absolutely no idea how exactly you understood it as Leopard 2 tanks didn't participate during those operations, perhaps you were having a mental breakdown or something due Turkey used Leopard 2s in every single operation in Syria and there are still dozens of Turkish Leopard 2s inside Syria..
3- ''YPG damaged a single Turkish Leopard 2''
And where is it's proof exactly?? Yeah you shared a dozen ''sources'' but somehow you ''expert'' failed to ralize all of them are about operation euphrates shield that Turkey lost 10 Leopard 2s during this operation because Turkey made the mistake of only using armors and trusting FSA for giving necessary infantry support to Turkish armors!! While even a single one of those sources is about olive branch nor spring shield operations so where is the damn video of YPG hitting a Turkish Leopard 2, huh??? Wait a minute i know a video where YPG destroyed ''a Turkish Leopard 2A4'', here you go:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6J8Asx7sbzI
Look the Turkish Leopard 2A4 lost air rapidly and became flat in a second as those 2A4s didn't have necessary protection against ATGM, right??? OMG, this is painfully funny🤣🤣 (In case you ''expert'' somehow don't realize what happens in that video it was a dummy tank that YPG ''destroyed'' and they even tried to use this video for propaganda while claiming ''ATGM hit the barrel of Leopard and the barrel got lowered afterwards'' while everybody with abrain can easily see ATGM just filed through it and hit the ground further away..)
4- ''later models of the Leopard 2, M1 and Israeli Merkava are largely immune to ATGMs''
Wow, you show what kind of ''expert'' you are once more due only tank which is kinda immune to ATGMs is Merkava thanks to it's active protection system but it still can be destroyed by ATGMs if it's active protective system is overwhelmed + it is very dangerous to possible soldiers around the tank!! While none of Leopard 2s nor M1s are immune to ATGMs at all rather they are better protected than Leopard 2A4s even then they could be destroyed by ATGMs which is how US lost hundreds of tanks in last 17 years but ofc you ignorant ''expert'' claim somehow US didn't loose any tanks to ATGMs while there are hundreds of evidence telling otherwise, here check it yourself how M1s are ''immune'' to ATGMs:
http://artofwar.ru/p/ponamarchuk_e/text_0300.shtml
5- ''Turkey still till this day arms the Muslim brotherhood militias and criminal officials''
I wonder which muslim brother militants you talk about due MB doesn't even have an armed wing unlike all terror organizations from PKK to hezbollah and which is why vast majority of the world don't consider MB as terrorist organization, for example:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/30/world/middleeast/is-the-muslim-brotherhood-terrorist.html
Rather only 6 countries as Russia, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Syria, UAE and Bahrain consider them as terrorist!! On the other hand dozens of countries consider hezbollah as a terrorist organization as they targeted civilians dozens of times but even then Russia is giving them T-90 tanks in Syria so according to your own logic Russia is the terrorist supporter country in Syria not Turkey at all, LMAO!!..
6- ''most of the groups you’ve mentioned are confirmed to terrorist organizations that your country and military had transported and shielded in the past''
And which groups are those ''most of groups'', huh ''expert''?? Only groups which recognized as terrorist by most of the world are isis and hts that Turkey never supported them at all, in fact Turkey directly fought against isis and also recognized hts as a terrorist organization years ago so you ''expert'' must go learn which groups you talk about so we can argue about them, LMAO!!..
7- '' Turkey still resumes the act of invasion in syria without the syrian authorization, which makes you just as guilty as your allies''
Another part which shows you know nothing about international laws as Turkey has every right to establish a safe zone inside Syria as assad regime completely lost control of their borders and there are 4 million Syrian refugees in Turkey as a result which is why despite total THREE Turkish operations nobody could do anything to stop Turkey that UN couldn't even condemn a single of Turkish operations while according to you ''expert'' they all are illegal, LMAO!! Turkey will remain in Syria until 4 million Syrian refugees are convinced to return Syria by Russian coalition and assad regime will clear PKK terrorists as they also promised according to Adana agreement which is signed in 1998 between Syria and Turkey!! If those conditions are met Turkey would leave Syria tomorrow..
8- ''Turkey is also responsible in sending rebels in the past to the gaza strip in order for them to sneak into sinai and launch a full scale terrorist war on Egypt.''
What kind of joke is this?? You ignorant must learn Gaza is under extreme Israeli blockade and they don't even let Gaza fishermen to sail into the sea so how exactly Turkey is ''sneaking'' rebels into there, huh?? With a teleportation machine??? LMAO!! This extreme nonsense made me think you are from Egypt as such extreme stupidities could be only circulating in there as Egypt lost thousands of soldiers and hundreds of vehicles even then couldn't clear Sinai but their excuse is ready ''Turkey supports them'' and you kept talking about ''Turkish incompetence'' while your own country couldn't even protect it's own soil🤣🤣
9- ''making excuses defending your dictator''
This part was also very amusing as i wrote ''dumbrse erdogan'' several times in my other messages but even then you continue saying ''your dictator'' as you are like a bot programed to argue with Turks no matter what thanks to your extreme butthurt!! Sure, Turkey produces more arms than entire arabic union combined but you people don't have to be this butthurt about Turkey rather perhaps you should also start producing something instead of selling your natural resources and buying foreign equipments, huh??? But nope, you will act like Turkey is a dictatorship while erdogan gets barely 55% of votes (AKP gets 45% and MHP gets around %10) while Egypt is ''a modern democracy'' where sisi gets 97% of votes, right??? LMAO!! You act like erdogan is a terrible leader who ''kills'' people while in reality there is no death penalty in Turkey at all and it is Egypt where thousands of people are executed!! Such as here are some articles about the sisi brutality in Egypt:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/11/sisi-egypt-brutality-europe
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2019/10/egypt-torture-of-activist-alaa-abdel-fattah-illustrates-use-of-extreme-brutality-to-crush-dissent/
And here is HRW, a pretty neutral source which ''somehow'' talks about Egyptian atrocities in Sinai like children getting arrested and hundreds of people disappearing!! Make sure read it till the end...
https://www.hrw.org/report/2019/05/28/if-you-are-afraid-your-lives-leave-sinai/egyptian-security-forces-and-isis
You are a total butthurt joke, nothing else at all so advice you to use this as your problem is most probably permanent...
https://img.memecdn.com/a-lot-of-people-need-this_o_661249.jpg
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The video was mostly correct but there was some mistakes i will briefly mention;
1- Turkic and Arabic tribalism aren't similar, one of the biggest differences Arabs have to stay in their born tribes while Turks could freely leave and join other tribes, in fact you didn't even have to be Turkic to join tribes. Because of this reason Turkic people were always mixed people even thousands of years ago and the origin of Turks is unknown while it is debated even if they were actually from east or west. Western Turks (Oghuz, Tatar, Uzbeks) were mixed with Persians, Indians, Greeks, Arabs etc while eastern Turks (Kazakhs, Kyrgyzs, Uyghurs) were mixed with Chinese and Mongols. Uyghurs were actually a part of western Turks and their language is pretty close to Oghuz/Turkish language but they were the first Turkic tribe who adopted sedentary life so while other Turkic tribes were migrating around they stayed where they were and became eastern edge of Turkic world. For example as an Anatolian Turk i can understand around 40% of Uyghur language but it is like 5% for Kazakh language. They are Turkic with thousands of same words but Kazakh pronunciation is so different i can't understand it expect very simple words. The fact Kazakhs have been living much closer to us than Uyghurs in last 1000 years which suggest this difference isn't something new rather even 1000 years ago there was significant difference between Kazakh and Oghuz languages. Kazakhs weren't originated in north of Black sea rather they were living in east as far as Pasific ocean same as Kyrgyzs. After their defeats against China and Mongols they migrated to there.
2- Living in such a huge 10,000 km area not all Turkic tribes were same nor they followed same objectives and had same allies. It is known Chinese army had some Turkic tribes during battle of Talas but seeing Arab force also had a lot of Turkic tribes they switched side or didn't join the battle. Same happened during battle of Manzikert and Turkic mercenaries of Byzantine switched sides and joined Seljuks. We might have differences, we might fight against each others but we would never ever support other powers against one of us! This understanding of being a nation really made Turkic empires strong as tribes weren't subjugated rather were truly uniting under one banner. And leading tribe would get Khan title, ''the leader of people'' so as definition suggests there couldn't be two Khans and if two Turkic tribes claimed Khan title you can bet they fought against each others like Ottoman and Timurid empires. It is often overlooked but Ottoman actually used Khan title for it's entire history, for example it was Fatih Sultan Mehmed Khan..
3- It is true Arabic victory against China opened the gate for Islam to spread in central Asia, i think even if it didn't happen we were still going become Muslims rather in a later date. Tengrism has quite similarities with Abrahamic religions but it was very simplified so it made sense for Tengrists to convent to other Abrahamic religions especially Islam as there was no conflict between those religions. Even today there are many Tengrist traditions in Turkiye survived over 1000 years after being Muslim simply because they were never against Islam. Mongolic tengrism which was polytheistic and Turkic Tengrism which is monotheistic shouldn't be confused really as they were quite different.
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This was mostly correct but there were some huge mistakes and clear bias through it, for example in Ottoman religious minorities could operate their own religious institutions, their own government institutions, their own schools, their own courts, they could even issue their own laws! Care to share which European empire gave such rights to any religious minority? But even then they were still ''persecuted'', i really wonder how exactly. Jizya tax was very very small price for having such rights and it wasn't even a high tax, for example wealthier regions like Greece never had any problems paying Jizya tax for over 500 years while only really poor regions like Serbia struggled to pay it so blood tax was collected instead. And those children perhaps were taken forcefully but they weren't becoming slave soldiers at all. They were receiving 4 years long education and depending on their success they were receiving further education and becoming Ottoman officials or were enlisted into Janissary corps which was receiving one of highest salaries among all Ottoman standing army but they were still ''slaves'' somehow..
Also claiming Muhammad Ali Pasha was a bashi-bazouk is a massive mistake, i really wonder where he could learn such a thing! Ali Pasha was an Albanian who received at least 10 years of education to become a ''general'' (Pasha is actually a Turkish rank close to general) to lead armies and govern provinces. But he indeed raised a small army of Albanians as bashi-bazouks. There was never an official Ottoman unit as bashi-bazouks but especially during war times Pashas were often raising irregular armies as bashi-bazouks so it just means irregular soldiers.
As one of correct information, the infighting between Arabic tribes had been quite common as mostly Arabs were ruling themselves not Ottoman which allowed a lot of powerplay between tribes. In late 18th century first Saudi rebellion happened along with their radical ideology, same as their late atrocities they were quite brutal burning down towns and slaughtering ''non-Muslims'' as they wished. Ottoman ordered Ali Pasha to raise a large army in Egypt and end their rebellion. Ali Pasha did so without much resistance from Saudis but he had a large intact army now while Ottoman was quite weak so he decided his payment wasn't enough and asked for more by force. He never ever became ruler of Egypt, this is another huge mistake ''history channels'' are often making. Muhammad Ali Pasha remained as OTTOMAN GOVERNER of Egypt even after defeating Ottoman, only became governer of Syria etc as well. Ottoman attacked him back only few years later but didn't remove him from his position entirely only revoked his governship from other regions while he and his dynasty remained as governers of Egypt. Even in 1914 Egypt was still officially a part of Ottoman until WW1 began then British finally ended it by using the war as an excuse.
As last even this map isn't enough to explain struggle in the region as more and more foreign powers kept always involving, for example Russian empire's invasion of Caucasus changed power balance entirely and Armenians became a russian proxy since then. It was somehow claimed that Armenian population disappeared because of genocide but it is completely false as in 1914 Russian empire invaded eastern Turkey so Ottoman wasn't even controlling Armenian majority cities in 1915 rather they were under control of RUSSIAN EMPIRE! After Ottoman defeats against russian empire Armenians wrongly believed Ottoman was about to collapse and rebelled as a russian proxy in late 1914. But ofc they were wrong and Ottoman displaced them into Syria and Lebanon to suppress their rebellion then most of them decided to migrate into Russian empire over Caucasus mountains. The whole point of this displacement was moving Armenians away from front lines with russian empire which was supplying them arms but ofc even Armenian rebellion is somewhat forgotten thanks to re-writing history efforts and ''historians'' like this guy..
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@northernlight9790 Turkey, Japan, Philippines, Australia, New Zealand, Iran, Azerbaijan, Kazakhistan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Iraq, Syria, Kirgizstan, Pakistan, Qatar, Bangladesh, Bulgaria, Moldavia, Austria, Germany, France, Netherlands, UK, Canada, US directly while Greece, Cyprus, Romania, Hungary, Slovakia, Slovenia, Croatia, Czech republic, Belgium, Poland, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia indirectly or through European union and NATO recognized PKK as a terrorist organization!! Now do you know how to count or perhaps you need help in that department as well??? PKK literally did HUNDREDS OF TERRORIST ATTACKS which killed THOUSANDS of civilians and it is why there are so many countries recognizing them as terrorists...
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@huwenkai440 Russia is literally annexing parts of Ukraine and there are Russian soldiers fighting inside Ukraine (wagner group mercenaries) but Ukrainians perceive Turkish involvement aka Turkish arm sales and military cooperations for Ukraine more like an equal threat as Russia??? You can't expect a single soul on Earth to believe such an extreme nonsense🤣🤣
You Turkey haters are such jokes according to you even Turkey supporting a country is same as Turkey invading a country somehow!! Only laughable and childish claims while the reality is Turkey is the only NATO country which is properly supporting Ukraine and it is why Ukrainian officials were in Turkey yesterday not in EU or US regardless you like this fact or not. For same reasons you also completely ignore ''the mistakes'' NATO, EU, US did for decades and act like they are as pure as the driven snow but you miserable hater need to check declassified CIA documents which show how US supported terrorists, cartels, dictators for decades against communism including even alqaeda in Afghanistan between 1979 and 1989 which is called ''Operation Cyclone''!! Even if it isn't in same scale, similar corruption is true for EU as well from economic schemes to EU involvement in Africa and Middle east such as French involvement into Rwanda, Libya, Syria or how those EU countries consider wicked kings, princes, dictators and even warlords as ''allies'' like sisi, haftar, mbs etc!!! You literally see the world through rose-coloured glasses try to remove them once in a while...
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As a Turkish person i must say we are half bluffing, half serious. Our trade with the west accounts to 60% of our entire trade, we can not just ditch that. However we are a fully independent country and will never ever kneel before western countries, not today, not 1000 years later. So we won't tolerate anti-Turkish policies of the west much longer and i'm saying this as a republican who hates erdogan. Western countries began seriously confusing anti-Turkish and anti-erdogan policies and turning entire Turkish public hostile. I see most western politicians/journalists blaming erdogan for it while in reality he is not. Erdogan has low public approval and all he can do nothing but talking. In case of ruling party change it might actually become far worse than now and Turkey acting more aggressively. Even today US and France literally support terrorists against our country right at our borders while UK, Germany etc were smart enough abandon their support. The west might be much stronger, the west might have thousands of nukes, but we aren't smart nor cunning people and we would still declare the west our enemy despite all that. At this rate i give it two decades at most and Turkey will become an enemy for sure. It is still reversible but i don't see any western leadership capable of it, increasing racism and right wing parties getting elected will only escalate this division. So be it, the west never trusted Turkey anyway and gave us a true chance, there were even many western politicians claiming Russia was "a more reliable partner" than Turkey only few years ago that we all saw how it turned out. The west wants us as enemies then enemies we will be..
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This was mostly correct but there were some huge mistakes and clear bias through it, for example in Ottoman religious minorities could operate their own religious institutions, their own government institutions, their own schools, their own courts, they could even issue their own laws! Care to share which European empire gave such rights to any religious minority? But even then they were still ''persecuted'', i really wonder how exactly. Jizya tax was very very small price for having such rights and it wasn't even a high tax, for example wealthier regions like Greece never had any problems paying Jizya tax for over 500 years while only really poor regions like Serbia struggled to pay it so blood tax was collected instead. And those children perhaps were taken forcefully but they weren't becoming slave soldiers at all. They were receiving 4 years long education and depending on their success they were receiving further education and becoming Ottoman officials or were enlisted into Janissary corps which was receiving one of highest salaries among all Ottoman standing army but they were still ''slaves'' somehow..
Also claiming Muhammad Ali Pasha was a bashi-bazouk is a massive mistake, i really wonder where he could learn such a thing! Ali Pasha was an Albanian who received at least 10 years of education to become a ''general'' (Pasha is actually a Turkish rank close to general) to lead armies and govern provinces. But he indeed raised a small army of Albanians as bashi-bazouks. There was never an official Ottoman unit as bashi-bazouks but especially during war times Pashas were often raising irregular armies as bashi-bazouks so it just means irregular soldiers.
As one of correct information, the infighting between Arabic tribes had been quite common as mostly Arabs were ruling themselves not Ottoman which allowed a lot of powerplay between tribes. In late 18th century first Saudi rebellion happened along with their radical ideology, same as their late atrocities they were quite brutal burning down towns and slaughtering ''non-Muslims'' as they wished. Ottoman ordered Ali Pasha to raise a large army in Egypt and end their rebellion. Ali Pasha did so without much resistance from Saudis but he had a large intact army now while Ottoman was quite weak so he decided his payment wasn't enough and asked for more by force. He never ever became ruler of Egypt, this is another huge mistake ''history channels'' are often making. Muhammad Ali Pasha remained as OTTOMAN GOVERNER of Egypt even after defeating Ottoman, only became governer of Syria etc as well. Ottoman attacked him back only few years later but didn't remove him from his position entirely only revoked his governship from other regions while he and his dynasty remained as governers of Egypt. Even in 1914 Egypt was still officially a part of Ottoman until WW1 began then British finally ended it by using the war as an excuse.
As last even this map isn't enough to explain struggle in the region as more and more foreign powers kept always involving, for example Russian empire's invasion of Caucasus changed power balance entirely and Armenians became a russian proxy since then. It was somehow claimed that Armenian population disappeared because of genocide but it is completely false as in 1914 Russian empire invaded eastern Turkey so Ottoman wasn't even controlling Armenian majority cities in 1915 rather they were under control of RUSSIAN EMPIRE! After Ottoman defeats against russian empire Armenians wrongly believed Ottoman was about to collapse and rebelled as a russian proxy in late 1914. But ofc they were wrong and Ottoman displaced them into Syria and Lebanon to suppress their rebellion then most of them decided to migrate into Russian empire over Caucasus mountains. The whole point of this displacement was moving Armenians away from front lines with russian empire which was supplying them arms but ofc even Armenian rebellion is somewhat forgotten thanks to re-writing history efforts and ''historians'' like this guy..
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@jeanmoulin1443 First of all due means ''because of''. Secondly never ever use wikipedia aka BSpedia as a source because you will learn extreme nonsenses written by ordinary people not historians!! For example you couldn't even learn what Millet system was or how tanzimat reforms changed it rather learned a complete nonsense as tanzimat reforms gave Armenians more freedom while in reality it didn't at all!! We should look at what Millet system was first:
Millet system was a completely religious system seperating the Ottoman population depending on their religions. For example Ottoman never ever considered (Until tanzimat reforms) Armenians as Armenians rather considered them as Eastern Orthodox Millet (Millet means nation in Turkish) nor considered Turks as Turks, Arabs as Arabs, Kurds as Kurds rather all Muslims were just considered as Muslim Millet and they were a part of Ottoman caliphate. There were also western Orthodox Millet and Catholic Millet while all those Millets had their own government structure. For example Ottoman didn't give Armenian lands to Muslims like Spanish empire did in colonies rather Armenian officials were governing their own lands, operating their own schools, Churches, farms, mines, courts and issuing their own laws. There were thousands of Christian officials in Ottoman from artists to engineers and governers and in return of their service they were recieving benefits like not paying any taxes. So your claim after 1552 indigenous people became free and had more rights than Armenians is only a laughable joke due indigenous people weren't still governing themselves like Armenians did, they weren't still operating their own schools-courts etc like Armenians did rather only they weren't forced to work until they died anymore..
After the French revolution happened and nationalism spread worldwide Ottoman minorities weren't happy only having religious identities anymore rather they also wanted national identities from Armenians to Greeks and Arabs. So Ottoman made tanzimat reforms and tried to turn only religious Millet system into a mixed system. Eastern Orthodox Millet got changed into Armenian Millet and first time in Ottoman history Armenian Millet became a direct part of Ottoman government structure!! In 1847 compulsory military service law was issued and previously only voluntarily military service also became mandatory for Armenian people!! Tanzimat reforms opened women schools, decriminalized homosexuality (A hundred years before UNITED STATES) etc but those changes were made to Ottoman CALIPHATE that wasn't already a part of Eastern Orthodox Millet and Armenian people didn't have to follow those caliphate laws!!! So any person claiming tanzimat rerforms gave Ottoman minorities more freedom has absolutely no idea what he/she is talking about because in reality Ottoman tried to centralize with tanzimat reforms and made Armenian population a direct part of Ottoman government..
You can't read half a hour long article?? Whatever, i will share a shorter article then, here is a Greek author who actually defends both Armenian and Greek genocides happened but honorable enough to admit they also committed a Turkish genocide and says they must recognize it before Turkey!!! At least read this shorter article fully please due there is no point arguing with you otherwise because you still defend that ''self-defense'' extreme nonsense for killing CIVILIANS like women and children were targeting people which isn't only wrong also insanely wicked thing to claim:
neoskosmos. com/en/23903/
You see 31,000 Turkish civilians got killed in A SINGLE CITY while both Greek and Armenian militia operated in DOZENS of them!! And you don't have any right to claim ''those were stateless militia so we can ignore their atrocities'' because in reality they were ENTENTE backed proxies that Russian empire directly armed Armenian militia and encouraged them to revolt when they invaded eastern Turkey in 1914, France allowed Armenian militia to be transported from Adana to İzmir so they can continue targeting civilians (You can find evidence about this in that article you didn't read), in this article i shared up there Greek author talks about how Greek army disarmed Turkish civilians then allowed both Greek and Armenian militia to freely target them!!! Do you need any more evidence?? I don't know where are you from but imagine Turkey was arming and transporting a minority militia inside your country so they could kill civilians and they were even disarming your people so more of innocent people could be killed, would you ever accept such a thing??? Wouldn't you claim this was a genocide and Turkey was fully responsible???? You would definitely do that after all hundreds of thousands civilians would be killed only for some powers could divide your country's lands!! But even if entente powers did exactly same thing in Anatolia it somehow becomes ''fine'', Turkish casualties becomes ''Armenian resistance'' or ''self-defense'' and it is also ''fine'' completely ignoring them!!! I asked this question several times already, WHY EXACTLY??? I guess you really think Christian people are more important than Muslim people so you ignore Muslim casualties but care to explain please if you don't care about Muslim people why would we care about Christian people???? And your claim Turkey must recognize it first was even more ridiculous due even today western countries are completely ignoring Turkish/Muslim casualties. And if Turkey recognizes it while also ignoring Turkish casualties then those Turkish casualties will be completely forgotten and forgiven FOREVER that you claimed such a thing must be never allowed!!! Then the only option Greece and Armenia recognizing their own atrocities first as that Greek author also claims then Turkey can recognize it's own atrocities without forgetting nor forgiving any side's suffering, right??!! But ofc this could happen if the original purpose was really humanitarian but sadly the purpose was always putting political pressure on Turkey, nothing else. And this is why there isn't a single western country on Earth which recognized a single of their atrocities and genocides against millions of Africans, Native Americans, Asians or Aborigines even if they are so ''humanist'' and ''liberal''!!! If you could remove your rose-coloured glasses you can see what im talking about very clearly...
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This was mostly neutral but there were still downplaying facts and some huge mistakes, for example PKK was so wickedly attacking civilians including even Kurdish civilians the second highest casualty in this conflict after terrorists themselves isn't Turkish army, police nor civilians at all rather it is actually KURDS, civilians and especially Kurdish village guards that PKK killed thousands of them! There are hundreds of villages in southeastern Turkey alone and because the region is extremely mountainous Turkish army couldn't protect all villages constantly and Kurdish villagers were becoming easy targets for PKK raids. As a solution the government trained and armed Kurdish civilians so they could defend themselves until the army arrived. I bet some people may think ''Kurdish'' PKK and Kurdish villagers didn't fight against each others but in reality it is terrorist PKK which was seizing their assests while calling it ''tax'' and even forcefully recruiting their children! So Kurdish village guards pretty much always fought against them even if they were greatly outnumbered, while PKK simply declared them as ''traitors'' and mercilessly killed thousands of them!! Especially in 90s their violence was out of control if a Kurdish intellectual could talk against PKK would be found dead in their homes. Suicide bombing attacks in public buses, squires, markets, stations, stadiums you name it and this is the reason why literally DOZENS of countries recognize PKK as a terrorist organization as they really are terrorists!! PKK isn't committing as many terrorist attacks as before doesn't prove they magically changed like some westerners claim. Rather it is mainly because they can not smuggle both arms and themselves through Turkish-Iraqi anymore because of constant surveillance by drones. In 90s the best Turkey could do was building border outposts along the mountanious border to literally watch the border with soldiers and several dozen soldiers in a mountain peak were often becoming a target themselves..
It is true KDP asked support from even saddam but they did that out of desperation, after years of infighting they were exhausted and with great Iranian support PUK was gaining upper hand. This was also the point PKK joined PUK alliance not after KDP asked support from Iraqi government, there is a timelapse for obvious reasons! It was also completely ignored after PUK territorial gains in 1997 Turkey invaded norhern Iraq with 60,000 soldiers as PKK alliance couldn't be allowed to win the civil war and gain huge support. Instead of the truth it is told like Barzani stopped the civil war by swinging his magical wand for obvious reasons. This Turkish intervention and ending the civil war in favour of KDP was also the reason why Turkey and Barzanis have been allies since then and 15 Turkish bases were built in KDP territories started from 1998 for training Peshmerga forces and providing security.
It is also a completely a false Turkey blocked KRG's access to the world, in fact both Barzani and Talabani also many Iraqi Kurds have TURKISH diplomatic passports so they can travel through Turkey freely and ask for support from other nations. What more Turkey supposed to do than giving people diplomatic passports who aren't even Turkish citizens, huh?? Then they also completely ignored vast majority of KRG's trade travel through Turkey including 95% of their oil exports and this was the only reason KRG could survive so long. Then comes ''Turkey using PKK as an excuse to attack YPG'' nonsense, while in reality there are around TWO THOUSAND PKK terrorists in YPG's ranks, in fact even the commander of YPG is a ''former'' PKK terrorists called Mazloum Abdi! This isn't a secret or anything, just search his name you would see he is a known PKK terrorist, but no worries according to our ''trustworthy'' allies he retired being a terrorist and he is a democratic hero now!! Turkey will never ever accept this moronity, while the only way PKK terrorists can be declared innocent they will surrender and apologize to the people that they killed thousands of them. Until it happens Turkey will continue targeting them in every opportunity or YPG can cut it's ties with PKK, in fact Turkey actually asked it from US many times before starting operations against them which was ofc forgotten again! However with even it's commander being a PKK terrorist i guess it is extremely unlikely they can cut ties or could be even called seperate organizations...
PS: There aren't 30-40 million Kurdish people living Kurdistan, for example over 12 million Kurdish people out of Turkey's around 18 million Kurdish minority live in WESTERN Turkey not in Kurdistan. While the biggest Kurdish city in the world isn't Erbil, Sanadaj or Diyarbakır rather ISTANBUL with 3 million Kurdish population! They could at least research about populations properly but nope! By the way even if im a Turkish person im fully supporting a Kurdish state they suffered a lot especially in Iraq and we would rather having a border with a Kurdish state than Iraqis or Syrians. But a KURDISH state not a terrorist state, we will never ever support such a country and even fight against it's forces as long as those PKK terrorists are in charge..
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@soumyadiptamajumder8795 Thank you for your detailed answers, in Turkish narrative internal conflicts in Balkans are quite overlooked. If it was this bad i guess Ottoman got Balkans on a golden plate and had no option but focus on the west. They were also a quite small Beylik and didn't have enough military power to make even other Beyliks to submit.
After Mongol invasion and Seljuk vassalization Turkish Beyliks refused to accept it and began acting like they were independent from Seljuks and accordingly Mongols. They openly tried to establish another country 3 times that first two got brutally defeated by Mongols while third one was Ottoman. Ottoman quick expansion into Europe increased their reputation among Turkish population and they began receiving warrior migration from other Beyliks. This was the reason most Beyliks joined Ottoman willingly as they were loosing warriors constantly. So it made sense joining Ottoman to keep some privileges, like receiving "Beylerbeyi" title which is something like a Duke before their military power depleted further.
Turkic side of Ottoman is quite overlooked in western narrative, for example all Ottoman Sultans used Khan as their main title for 600 years, such as Sultan Beyazid Khan. They didn't see Turkic countries as a threat and always accepted Turkic migration regardless they were Tengri or from other Turkic branches. For example Timur was actually an Uzbek, relatively close relatives of Oghuzs and had been living as neighbours for many centuries. So there weren't much reasons for them to be enemies, however Timur adopted Mongol policies and claimed himself as their successor along with Khan title. Khan is often translated as "king of kings" but it meant more of "the leader of all people" so when two people claimed themselves as Khan it was a recipe for conflict. Parties actually sent letters to each others, basicly each party claiming they were superior authority and insulting other until the war broke out.
As a Nomadic nation early Ottoman armies were always vast majority cavalry for example in 1529 Ottoman army had around 12,000 Janissaries while 50,000 Sipahis. Kapıkulu heavy cavalry were around 5,000, Turkish sources claim 6,000 Hungarians joined them lets say 10,000. Lets also put 10,000 from Serbians and other vassals which makes total army size 90,000 when they sieged Vienna so European record is way off. However Ottoman army had tens of thousands non-combatants, first there was a massive Cebeci ocağı (Supply division) then Topçu ocağı (Artillery division) and even lağımcılar (Drillers who were damaging walls with tunnels) had their own division. So total size might be more than 150,000 but less than 30,000 soldiers actually joined Vienna siege for sure. Their job was to establish a breach or capture a gate so Sipahis can storm inside. Both Sipahis and Kapıkulus wouldn't attack walls, this was why Ottoman was so powerful at pitched battles but always struggled to capture fortifications and Janissaries had strong influence despite their small size. There was perhaps only one force which had more cavalry than Ottoman and it was also nomadic Timurid empire so Ottoman was defeated badly. They even captured Bursa Ottoman capital and Timur tried to vassalize Ottoman by declaring a Şehzade as Sultan while eldest Şehzade was declared Sultan in Edirne. This caused a long lasting civil war and even Byzantine and Venice supported Şehzades against Timur backed one as Timur was brutal against Christian population.
Sultan Suleiman abandoned the siege in only 3 weeks simply because he had no intention to capture Vienna at first place. I really don't know where this "Turks wanted to conquer Europe" claim comes from because it is so far from Turkish records. It was Ferdinand I who refused Ottoman vassalization of Hungary and claimed himself as the king so Sultan Suleiman had to act against him. His intention was to force Austrians to a pitched battle however they wisely avoided, Ottoman army captured several towns including capital Buda then sieged Vienna. There was general lack of supplies including even cannon balls so Suleiman decided to abandon the siege. Ferdinand continued claiming Hungarian throne so Ottoman army returned in 1532, this time capturing many towns inside Austria and Slovenia including Graz while Austrians still refusing a pitched battle. However this was enough for Ferdinand to drop his claims on Hungarian throne so Ottoman didn't try to capture Vienna again for 150 years.
Even in 1683 it wasn't again Ottoman's choice, Habsburgs was treating Protestants poorly which caused a large Protestant rebellion led by Thököly Imre. It was him who requested aid from Ottoman and as always Ottoman didn't decline and marched to support Protestants. The narrative Turks were enemies of Europeans or Christians is just false in every way possible as the empire supported every European who requested aid. From French to Protestants, from Jews to Swedish the empire accepted them all. This could be considered as political moves, somehow trying to strengthen "Sublime porte" concept. I really understand why some Europeans hated it back then and still hates it today but nobody needs to re-write history.
This re-writing is in such a scale western narrative completely ignores brutal Russian expansion, like they were only Muscovy and next day a massive empire from Crimea to Pacific! Ottoman took over a million migration from Crimea alone, hundreds of thousands from Circassia as well that those happened before any violence in Balkans or Anatolia. What do you think those people thought about Ottoman tolerance, Russian empire and local populations who became Russian proxies like Greeks or Armenians? It wasn't Ottoman which started this ethnic violence, it wasn't Ottoman fabricating Megali idea or Great Armenia from Caspian to Black sea, right? Even Kajaznuni openly admits they were wrong to claim such a large country but claims first Russians then Americans forced them to do so in order to accept them as a mandate. Regardless it is true or not they made themselves enemies and it wasn't tolerance going down. Ofc Ottoman could handle every development differently, without question they failed to adopt according to changing world and got weaker and weaker until it collapsed terribly. So even as a Turkish person i still blame Ottoman for their severe lack of modernization. However we will never ever accept the narrative "peaceful peoples" got targeted by Ottoman. If Russians could capture Anatolia we all know what was going to happen but i'm sure western historians were still going to act like Turks "peacefully disappeared" same as how they consider Crimean Tatars or Azerbaijanis today..
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This was mostly correct but there were some huge mistakes and clear bias through it, for example in Ottoman religious minorities could operate their own religious institutions, their own government institutions, their own schools, their own courts, they could even issue their own laws! Care to share which European empire gave such rights to any religious minority? But even then they were still ''persecuted'', i really wonder how exactly. Jizya tax was very very small price for having such rights and it wasn't even a high tax, for example wealthier regions like Greece never had any problems paying Jizya tax for over 500 years while only really poor regions like Serbia struggled to pay it so blood tax was collected instead. And those children perhaps were taken forcefully but they weren't becoming slave soldiers at all. They were receiving 4 years long education and depending on their success they were receiving further education and becoming Ottoman officials or were enlisted into Janissary corps which was receiving one of highest salaries among all Ottoman standing army but they were still ''slaves'' somehow..
Also claiming Muhammad Ali Pasha was a bashi-bazouk is a massive mistake, i really wonder where he could learn such a thing! Ali Pasha was an Albanian who received at least 10 years of education to become a ''general'' (Pasha is actually a Turkish rank close to general) to lead armies and govern provinces. But he indeed raised a small army of Albanians as bashi-bazouks. There was never an official Ottoman unit as bashi-bazouks but especially during war times Pashas were often raising irregular armies as bashi-bazouks so it just means irregular soldiers.
As one of correct information, the infighting between Arabic tribes had been quite common as mostly Arabs were ruling themselves not Ottoman which allowed a lot of powerplay between tribes. In late 18th century first Saudi rebellion happened along with their radical ideology, same as their late atrocities they were quite brutal burning down towns and slaughtering ''non-Muslims'' as they wished. Ottoman ordered Ali Pasha to raise a large army in Egypt and end their rebellion. Ali Pasha did so without much resistance from Saudis but he had a large intact army now while Ottoman was quite weak so he decided his payment wasn't enough and asked for more by force. He never ever became ruler of Egypt, this is another huge mistake ''history channels'' are often making. Muhammad Ali Pasha remained as OTTOMAN GOVERNER of Egypt even after defeating Ottoman, only became governer of Syria etc as well. Ottoman attacked him back only few years later but didn't remove him from his position entirely only revoked his governship from other regions while he and his dynasty remained as governers of Egypt. Even in 1914 Egypt was still officially a part of Ottoman until WW1 began then British finally ended it by using the war as an excuse.
As last even this map isn't enough to explain struggle in the region as more and more foreign powers kept always involving, for example Russian empire's invasion of Caucasus changed power balance entirely and Armenians became a russian proxy since then. It was somehow claimed that Armenian population disappeared because of genocide but it is completely false as in 1914 Russian empire invaded eastern Turkey so Ottoman wasn't even controlling Armenian majority cities in 1915 rather they were under control of RUSSIAN EMPIRE! After Ottoman defeats against russian empire Armenians wrongly believed Ottoman was about to collapse and rebelled as a russian proxy in late 1914. But ofc they were wrong and Ottoman displaced them into Syria and Lebanon to suppress their rebellion then most of them decided to migrate into Russian empire over Caucasus mountains. The whole point of this displacement was moving Armenians away from front lines with russian empire which was supplying them arms but ofc even Armenian rebellion is somewhat forgotten thanks to re-writing history efforts and ''historians'' like this guy..
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Quite informative video, well done! But i must say it could be even more detailed especially about Cyprus and why it was such a blow for junta. And you could also talk about American support to both junta and EOKA-B organization which staged the coup. Most of EOKA members always shared similar right wing ideology including enosis with junta regime even while they were fighting against British. It was because most of their leaders were already serving/served in Greek military including Georgios Grivas who actually fought in Anatolia against Turkish revolutionaries and always had a grudge because of their defeat. EOKA also claimed Turkish Cypriots were supporting Brits against them but it wasn't true as Turkish Cypriots rather stayed neutral. So when Cyprus became independent Turkish Cypriots and their ''too much'' constitutional rights became next major problem and there were attempts to change those laws within only few years. As a result all Turkish elected officials resigned from Cpyriot government in 1963 and established their own government. It was seen as a partition by hardliner Greek Cypriots and both sides began targeting each others so Cyprus problem didn't begin in 1974 rather at least a decade before that.
After hundreds of casualties mostly Turkish, it was obvious there wouldn't be a solution like this so Makarios III began adopting moderate policies trying to convince Turkish officials to return to their positions in the government. It was seen as a betrayal by Grivas and his right wing lot so they began fighting against each others as well, they even tried to assassinate Makarios in 1970. With junta regime heavily supporting now called EOKA-B the infighting continued for years with thousands of Turkish and Greek Cypriot casualties. After Grivas died in early 1974 Makarios seized the opportunity and both granted amnesty for EOKA-B members and tried to exile Greek officers so junta regime had no option but act against him despite risk of Turkish intervention. After thousands of casualties, dozens of massacres, attacks against civilians including bomb attacks which were so widely committed EOKA-B was considered as a terrorist organization nobody was believing Turkey was going to intervene so junta regime could decide to stage a coup but they were wrong indeed.
At first days of the invasion international community was fully supporting Turkish peace operation but after both junta regime then EOKA-B regime collapsed, this shifted greatly and even if there were still massacres against Turkish Cypriots happening many western countries began supporting Greek side. This possibilty was actually considered by Turkish regime and in that case northern half of island was planned to be invaded. So only a hour after last conference Turkey launched second invasion and occupied 37% of the island where Turkish Cypriots can finally live peacefully after decades of war. Turkey became a guarantee only to safeguard Turkish Cypriots not Cyprus itself so it could very well re-establish the state of affairs for Turkish Cypriots alone if their suffering could be ignored so easily, in fact none of EOKA-B terrorists faced trials for their crimes against humantiy even if they killed thousands of innocent people including hundreds of Greek Cypriots as well!! Such a ''lovely'' country Cyprus is indeed, Turkey will never ever accept an one sided solution which disregards the safety of Turkish Cypriots entirely. That's why the islands is still divided today and will remain so until finally there is a fair solution like Annan plan which 65% of Turkish Cypriots accepted while Greek side refused claiming an UN plan was somehow ''gifting'' Cyprus to Turkey...
It is well-proven CIA was supporting EOKA-B as well and it makes sense as Makarios III was getting closer to USSR increasingly because of his fight against EOKA-B and accordingly junta regime which was US backed. EOKA-B stages a coup and rules Cyprus, win for US. Or Turkey a NATO ally invades Cyprus, even better win! Ofc CIA documents aren't declassified yet like operation cylone etc as trying to cause a war between two NATO ally nations is a lot worse than arming some terrorists against USSR you know. So it wasn't just between Turks and Greeks rather there were all kind of sides involved, good, bad, ugly, fascist you name it. We Turks are the ugly one, no matter what we do we are always guilty. It doesn't matter we never asked permission from anybody nor we will ever do while you can decide other ones i guess...
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This was mostly neutral but there were still downplaying facts and some huge mistakes, for example PKK was so wickedly attacking civilians including even Kurdish civilians the second highest casualty in this conflict after terrorists themselves isn't Turkish army, police nor civilians at all rather it is actually KURDS, civilians and especially Kurdish village guards that PKK killed thousands of them! There are hundreds of villages in southeastern Turkey alone and because the region is extremely mountainous Turkish army couldn't protect all villages constantly and Kurdish villagers were becoming easy targets for PKK raids. As a solution the government trained and armed Kurdish civilians so they could defend themselves until the army arrived. I bet some people may think ''Kurdish'' PKK and Kurdish villagers didn't fight against each others but in reality it is terrorist PKK which was seizing their assests while calling it ''tax'' and even forcefully recruiting their children! So Kurdish village guards pretty much always fought against them even if they were greatly outnumbered, while PKK simply declared them as ''traitors'' and mercilessly killed thousands of them!! Especially in 90s their violence was out of control if a Kurdish intellectual could talk against PKK would be found dead in their homes. Suicide bombing attacks in public buses, squires, markets, stations, stadiums you name it and this is the reason why literally DOZENS of countries recognize PKK as a terrorist organization as they really are terrorists!! PKK isn't committing as many terrorist attacks as before doesn't prove they magically changed like some westerners claim. Rather it is mainly because they can not smuggle both arms and themselves through Turkish-Iraqi anymore because of constant surveillance by drones. In 90s the best Turkey could do was building border outposts along the mountanious border to literally watch the border with soldiers and several dozen soldiers in a mountain peak were often becoming a target themselves..
It is true KDP asked support from even saddam but they did that out of desperation, after years of infighting they were exhausted and with great Iranian support PUK was gaining upper hand. This was also the point PKK joined PUK alliance not after KDP asked support from Iraqi government, there is a timelapse for obvious reasons! It was also completely ignored after PUK territorial gains in 1997 Turkey invaded norhern Iraq with 60,000 soldiers as PKK alliance couldn't be allowed to win the civil war and gain huge support. Instead of the truth it is told like Barzani stopped the civil war by swinging his magical wand for obvious reasons. This Turkish intervention and ending the civil war in favour of KDP was also the reason why Turkey and Barzanis have been allies since then and 15 Turkish bases were built in KDP territories started from 1998 for training Peshmerga forces and providing security.
It is also a completely a false Turkey blocked KRG's access to the world, in fact both Barzani and Talabani also many Iraqi Kurds have TURKISH diplomatic passports so they can travel through Turkey freely and ask for support from other nations. What more Turkey supposed to do than giving people diplomatic passports who aren't even Turkish citizens, huh?? Then they also completely ignored vast majority of KRG's trade travel through Turkey including 95% of their oil exports and this was the only reason KRG could survive so long. Then comes ''Turkey using PKK as an excuse to attack YPG'' nonsense, while in reality there are around TWO THOUSAND PKK terrorists in YPG's ranks, in fact even the commander of YPG is a ''former'' PKK terrorists called Mazloum Abdi! This isn't a secret or anything, just search his name you would see he is a known PKK terrorist, but no worries according to our ''trustworthy'' allies he retired being a terrorist and he is a democratic hero now!! Turkey will never ever accept this moronity, while the only way PKK terrorists can be declared innocent they will surrender and apologize to the people that they killed thousands of them. Until it happens Turkey will continue targeting them in every opportunity or YPG can cut it's ties with PKK, in fact Turkey actually asked it from US many times before starting operations against them which was ofc forgotten again! However with even it's commander being a PKK terrorist i guess it is extremely unlikely they can cut ties or could be even called seperate organizations...
PS: There aren't 30-40 million Kurdish people living Kurdistan, for example over 12 million Kurdish people out of Turkey's around 18 million Kurdish minority live in WESTERN Turkey not in Kurdistan. While the biggest Kurdish city in the world isn't Erbil, Sanadaj or Diyarbakır rather ISTANBUL with 3 million Kurdish population! They could at least research about populations properly but nope! By the way even if im a Turkish person im fully supporting a Kurdish state they suffered a lot especially in Iraq and we would rather having a border with a Kurdish state than Iraqis or Syrians. But a KURDISH state not a terrorist state, we will never ever support such a country and even fight against it's forces as long as those PKK terrorists are in charge..
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WW1 + Spanish flu casualties:
Germany 2,800,720 / 4.32% of total population
France 1,737,800 / 4.39%
Austria-Hungary 2,081,200 / 4.05%
Italy 1,243,400 / 3.49%
United kingdom 1,011,687 / 2.23%
Russia 3,394,369 / 1.94%
Ottoman 3,271,844 / 15.36%
And the war didn't end for Turks with WW1 as allied powers occupied Turkey and Turks kept fighting in the Turkish war of independence which caused hundreds of thousands more casualties from both Turkish soldiers and civilians who got targeted by Greek forces:
http://www.academia.edu/35312332/Revisiting_the_Fire_of_Izmir
So the Republic of Turkey literally inherited a giant graveyard from Ottoman and it is why Turkey was always very isolationist since then and only acted if it was absolute necessity which is same today despite very wrong claims that we are an aggressive nation!! We are a warlike nation not an aggressive nation at all especially compared to ''world powers'' which have to start wars every few years...
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Such nonsenses!! The channel's name is the real news network while they simply repeat the lies of mainstream western media without adding anything at all, lets look into them closer:
1- S-400 could track NATO planes because of Turkey nonsense, Russia already has S-400 systems in both Syria and East Prussia (Which is in middle of Europe and stayed under Russian control after WW2) and those S-400 systems are constantly tracking NATO planes due there are many NATO countries which are operating F-35s etc in those S-400 radar range so Russia is already collecting very important data about F-35!! That's why it is mandatory to use radar reflectors in non-combat missions to increase F-35's radar signature and make Russians collect wrong data such as here is a Israeli F-35 with radar reflectors:
https://theaviationist.com/2018/05/24/image-of-israeli-f-35-flying-off-beirut-with-radar-reflectors-as-well-as-more-details-about-the-adirs-first-strikes-emerge/
But Israel doesn't always use radar reflectors such recently they used F-35s to destroy several Syrian S-200 systems without reflectors and gave some very important data to Russians but because it is Israel nobody cares and even if Turkey promised to always use radar reflectors in it's F-35s so Russia can't get accurate data, it somehow becomes 'a very serious threat to NATO' but in reality it is just an excuse for US to pressure Turkey, nothing else..
2- Turkey doesn't buy Patriots instead buys S-400 nonsense, Turkey tried to buy Patriots as early as 90s and the deal was Patriots would b produced in Turkey same as the F-16 deal which happened and Turkey produced more than 300 F-16s but only God knows why US refused to sell a defense system to an ally!! Then Turkey again tried to buy Patriots in early 2010 while this time the deal included technology transfer and producing Patriots in Turkey but US again refused to sell a defense system and 30 years old technology to an ally!! Then Syrian civil war happened and Turkey faced a serious chemical attack threat from Syria so we requested missile defense systems from NATO and NATO countries deployed many Patriot batteries in Turkey but only after several years US, Germany etc removed their batteries from Turkey and risked lives of millions of innocent people only because of few political disagrements such an 'defense alliance' indeed!! Soon after Turkey decided to buy S-400 to properly protect it's people due apparently NATO is a total joke anymore which can't protect anybody..
Please note that not all NATO countries are wicked as US such as both Italy and Spain still have Patriot and SAMP-T batteries in Turkey which are protecting millions of people from Syrian threat but the numbers of those batteries are very limited and they can easily get overwhelmed!! Turkey and France also signed a deal for SAMP-T technology transfer and producing those defense systems in Turkey but compared to even Patriots SAMP-T has very limited anti-missile capabilities because of it's short range, as all know compared to S-400 both those systems are stone age technology so Turkey doesn't buy S-400 to show middle finger to US, we are buying S-400 because US isn't acting like an ally for a long time...
3- Turkey undermines NATO nonsense, to be fair the video kinda accepts that NATO is undermining itself not Turkey at all but still they slightly point it out while in reality it screams out!! NATO was pretty much always the aggressor in all wars after 1988 and it became much much worse after 9/11 and US started an all out war against an enemy they created themselves such as they heavily supported Al qaeda along with Saudi Barbaria against Russians then when they lost control of them it became Middle east's fault somehow and they kept invading countries in last decades while at the end they didn't fix a damn thing in Middle east rather made everything much worse!! In 2001 there were only few countries with terrorism problem while right now there are a dozen countries with serious terrorism problem and there are at least 10 times more terrorists worldwide than 2001 but instead of analysing and correcting their mistakes US still tries to invade more countries only to serve Israeli interests such as their plan to invade Iran!! The real problem with Turkey and US starts here, in the original plan Turkey was going to join 2003 invasion of Iraq with around 100,000 soldiers and control northern Iraq then after Iraq Iran was always the next target so Turkey was also going to join the war against Iran which would divide Iran within just months because there are more than 30 million Azeri Turks in Iran who would never fight against their Turkish brothers!! We could have accepted this plan and establish a Turkish country in Iran or a Greater Azerbaijan (Azerbaijani Turks are also Azeri Turks as well who stayed outside of Iran due political progress and rather became a part of Soviet union) but the Turkish parliament refused joining 2003 invasion so pretty much said ''No, we won't join your zionist plans'' due those Iranian Turks are also Shia who don't want to fight against Shia regime of Iran as long as they are living properly and Iranian Turks have the highest standarts in all Iranians so we had no right to plot such a war against Iran, also most probably Israel was going to use such a war to invade Lebanon and annex some parts of it including annexing more of Palestine territories so such a war would serve Israeli interests more than anybody else, that's why Turkey and many European countries are against anti-Iran policies of US!! In return US heavily started to support Kurds including PKK terrorists to pressure Turkey in the region due without our involvement vast majority of Iranian population would resist against them and they would face very serious insurgency which could take years to suppress if they could ever suppress it, more likely Iran would become another hell like Afghanistan or Syria but who cares as long as Israel gets more lands to ethnic cleanse and colonize, right??..
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This was mostly neutral but there were still downplaying facts and some huge mistakes, for example PKK was so wickedly attacking civilians including even Kurdish civilians the second highest casualty in this conflict after terrorists themselves isn't Turkish army, police nor civilians at all rather it is actually KURDS, civilians and especially Kurdish village guards that PKK killed thousands of them! There are hundreds of villages in southeastern Turkey alone and because the region is extremely mountainous Turkish army couldn't protect all villages constantly and Kurdish villagers were becoming easy targets for PKK raids. As a solution the government trained and armed Kurdish civilians so they could defend themselves until the army arrived. I bet some people may think ''Kurdish'' PKK and Kurdish villagers didn't fight against each others but in reality it is terrorist PKK which was seizing their assests while calling it ''tax'' and even forcefully recruiting their children! So Kurdish village guards pretty much always fought against them even if they were greatly outnumbered, while PKK simply declared them as ''traitors'' and mercilessly killed thousands of them!! Especially in 90s their violence was out of control if a Kurdish intellectual could talk against PKK would be found dead in their homes. Suicide bombing attacks in public buses, squires, markets, stations, stadiums you name it and this is the reason why literally DOZENS of countries recognize PKK as a terrorist organization as they really are terrorists!! PKK isn't committing as many terrorist attacks as before doesn't prove they magically changed like some westerners claim. Rather it is mainly because they can not smuggle both arms and themselves through Turkish-Iraqi anymore because of constant surveillance by drones. In 90s the best Turkey could do was building border outposts along the mountanious border to literally watch the border with soldiers and several dozen soldiers in a mountain peak were often becoming a target themselves..
It is true KDP asked support from even saddam but they did that out of desperation, after years of infighting they were exhausted and with great Iranian support PUK was gaining upper hand. This was also the point PKK joined PUK alliance not after KDP asked support from Iraqi government, there is a timelapse for obvious reasons! It was also completely ignored after PUK territorial gains in 1997 Turkey invaded norhern Iraq with 60,000 soldiers as PKK alliance couldn't be allowed to win the civil war and gain huge support. Instead of the truth it is told like Barzani stopped the civil war by swinging his magical wand for obvious reasons. This Turkish intervention and ending the civil war in favour of KDP was also the reason why Turkey and Barzanis have been allies since then and 15 Turkish bases were built in KDP territories started from 1998 for training Peshmerga forces and providing security.
It is also a completely a false Turkey blocked KRG's access to the world, in fact both Barzani and Talabani also many Iraqi Kurds have TURKISH diplomatic passports so they can travel through Turkey freely and ask for support from other nations. What more Turkey supposed to do than giving people diplomatic passports who aren't even Turkish citizens, huh?? Then they also completely ignored vast majority of KRG's trade travel through Turkey including 95% of their oil exports and this was the only reason KRG could survive so long. Then comes ''Turkey using PKK as an excuse to attack YPG'' nonsense, while in reality there are around TWO THOUSAND PKK terrorists in YPG's ranks, in fact even the commander of YPG is a ''former'' PKK terrorists called Mazloum Abdi! This isn't a secret or anything, just search his name you would see he is a known PKK terrorist, but no worries according to our ''trustworthy'' allies he retired being a terrorist and he is a democratic hero now!! Turkey will never ever accept this moronity, while the only way PKK terrorists can be declared innocent they will surrender and apologize to the people that they killed thousands of them. Until it happens Turkey will continue targeting them in every opportunity or YPG can cut it's ties with PKK, in fact Turkey actually asked it from US many times before starting operations against them which was ofc forgotten again! However with even it's commander being a PKK terrorist i guess it is extremely unlikely they can cut ties or could be even called seperate organizations...
PS: There aren't 30-40 million Kurdish people living Kurdistan, for example over 12 million Kurdish people out of Turkey's around 18 million Kurdish minority live in WESTERN Turkey not in Kurdistan. While the biggest Kurdish city in the world isn't Erbil, Sanadaj or Diyarbakır rather ISTANBUL with 3 million Kurdish population! They could at least research about populations properly but nope..
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@huwenkai440 Sadly your points are just ridiculous, such as you claim Turkey won't support Ukraine while in reality Turkey is ALREADY supporting Ukraine with many military cooperation agreements and arms exports and imports!! On the other hand how many agreements or arm deals Ukraine could have with US, Germany, France?? ABSOLUTELY ZERO so your claim ''US and EU will save Ukraine'' is completely baseless. Especially while those powers are busy running around like headless chickens while crying as ''dictator erdogan'' and on the other hand considering wicked kings, princes or real dictators as ''the best western allies'' like mbs, sisi, haftar etc even if some of them are also supported by Russia!!! If NATO is loosing influence it isn't about Turkey rather about their own moronic policies and domestic problems like their ''lesser evil'' policy and how they supported terrorists, cartels, dictators, warlords against communists and doing exactly same in Syria and Iraq even today, supporting terrorists like YPG/PKK against Iranian forces. So Turkey had no choice but fix it's problems alone without depending on NATO which is supporting terrorists right at it's borders and trying to find a middle ground with Russia by negotiation or force!! Turkey will never ever consider Russia as an ally, due first Turkey's 60% of trade with the west and second historical rivalry that there were 12 wars between Turks and Russians!! For example Crimea is considered as a dispute between Russia and Ukraine while in reality Crimea wasn't Ukranian nor even Russian rather Crimean Tatar lands but where are they now??? They all got genocided, displaced and deported from 1774 to 1944 under Russian control and approximately 6 million of them live in Turkey today while the rest in Siberia etc!! Acting like Turkey has bad relations with Russians or their puppets like Armenia because of Turks themselves is just seeing one side, nothing else..
For example Armenia couldn't join NATO perhaps because as soon as they became indenpendent they invaded another country's lands, huh??? UN and 194 countries in the world consider Karabakh as a part of Azerbaijan and Armenia didn't only invade Karabakh also 7 districts surrounding Karabakh as a ''buffer zone'', in total 20% of Azerbaijan while Karabakh is only 7% of Azerbaijan!!! As long as we are ignorant or refusing to see other people's suffering and problems these wars and conflicts will never end...
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
-Noam Chomsky
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This was mostly correct but there were some huge mistakes and clear bias through it, for example in Ottoman religious minorities could operate their own religious institutions, their own government institutions, their own schools, their own courts, they could even issue their own laws! Care to share which European empire gave such rights to any religious minority? But even then they were still ''persecuted'', i really wonder how exactly. Jizya tax was very very small price for having such rights and it wasn't even a high tax, for example wealthier regions like Greece never had any problems paying Jizya tax for over 500 years while only really poor regions like Serbia struggled to pay it so blood tax was collected instead. And those children perhaps were taken forcefully but they weren't becoming slave soldiers at all. They were receiving 4 years long education and depending on their success they were receiving further education and becoming Ottoman officials or were enlisted into Janissary corps which was receiving one of highest salaries among all Ottoman standing army but they were still ''slaves'' somehow..
Also claiming Muhammad Ali Pasha was a bashi-bazouk is a massive mistake, i really wonder where he could learn such a thing! Ali Pasha was an Albanian who received at least 10 years of education to become a ''general'' (Pasha is actually a Turkish rank close to general) to lead armies and govern provinces. But he indeed raised a small army of Albanians as bashi-bazouks. There was never an official Ottoman unit as bashi-bazouks but especially during war times Pashas were often raising irregular armies as bashi-bazouks so it just means irregular soldiers.
As one of correct information, the infighting between Arabic tribes had been quite common as mostly Arabs were ruling themselves not Ottoman which allowed a lot of powerplay between tribes. In late 18th century first Saudi rebellion happened along with their radical ideology, same as their late atrocities they were quite brutal burning down towns and slaughtering ''non-Muslims'' as they wished. Ottoman ordered Ali Pasha to raise a large army in Egypt and end their rebellion. Ali Pasha did so without much resistance from Saudis but he had a large intact army now while Ottoman was quite weak so he decided his payment wasn't enough and asked for more by force. He never ever became ruler of Egypt, this is another huge mistake ''history channels'' are often making. Muhammad Ali Pasha remained as OTTOMAN GOVERNER of Egypt even after defeating Ottoman, only became governer of Syria etc as well. Ottoman attacked him back only few years later but didn't remove him from his position entirely only revoked his governship from other regions while he and his dynasty remained as governers of Egypt. Even in 1914 Egypt was still officially a part of Ottoman until WW1 began then British finally ended it by using the war as an excuse.
As last even this map isn't enough to explain struggle in the region as more and more foreign powers kept always involving, for example Russian empire's invasion of Caucasus changed power balance entirely and Armenians became a russian proxy since then. It was somehow claimed that Armenian population disappeared because of genocide but it is completely false as in 1914 Russian empire invaded eastern Turkey so Ottoman wasn't even controlling Armenian majority cities in 1915 rather they were under control of RUSSIAN EMPIRE! After Ottoman defeats against russian empire Armenians wrongly believed Ottoman was about to collapse and rebelled as a russian proxy in late 1914. But ofc they were wrong and Ottoman displaced them into Syria and Lebanon to suppress their rebellion then most of them decided to migrate into Russian empire over Caucasus mountains. The whole point of this displacement was moving Armenians away from front lines with russian empire which was supplying them arms but ofc even Armenian rebellion is somewhat forgotten thanks to re-writing history efforts and ''historians'' like this guy..
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@gerassimos.fourlanos Read your own message again and try to find anything about MEIS ISLAND which is our subject?? Nope, there is absolutely nothing in your message about our original subject rather ridiculous things about Turks and me that i proved to you ''Turks don't understand what is an island'' by giving you many examples of how other countries reduced EEZ of their islands, right??? So you literally couldn't answer about the subject and rather wrote a complete nonsese instead but you can't seriously believe such cheap demagogy tactics would work!! Such as the part of about ''successful empires'' was completely beside the mark that im not even sure you talk about Ottoman or a new empire or something as Ottoman wasn't unsuccessful at all!! If you talked about Ottoman i guess i have to remind you that Turks didn't rule Greeks for a century or two rather for FIVE HUNDRED YEARS while if a Russian empire ruled you people this long you were talking Russian today without any question, Spanish empire you were talking Spanish, British empire you were talking English, French empire you were talking French simply because this happened everywhere those empires controlled for not even 500 years rather only 200 years, for example entire Central and South America!!! While care to share how many of you Greeks talk Turkish today??? ZERO PERCENTAGE!! How many of you are Muslims today??? ZERO PERCENTAGE!! But all thanks to ''proud, resillient, tenacious'' etc etc Greek characteristics only according to ridiculous Greek nationalists ofc due in reality Ottoman allowed Greeks to freely preserve their religion, language and culture under Millet system for hundreds of years that they even had rights to issue their own laws, care to share a single European empire giving such a right to minorities in 16th century???? You can't simply because they didn't and Ottoman could easily do same especially during it's golden era as it was completely unstoppable by even huge european coalitions but im sure Ottoman was scared of some Greek peasants who would slaughter an entire army with pitchforks alone like they did to German army...
If you want to return the original subject i would recommend you to read my messages again due you somehow understood we Turks want something from you Greeks like those are granted Greek EEZ while in reality THEY ARE NOT as according to Sea law conventions BOTH Turkey and Greece signed Turkey can claim 200 nmiles EEZ even if it is cutting Greek islands from rest of your EEZ as previous convention was giving mainland way more weight than islands and as long as Turkey doesn't sign UNCLOS you Greeks have absolutely no right self-claim such an EEZ as if both countries didn't sign those conventions they are NOT BINDING!! You always keep babble about international laws while in reality you don't even know UN conventions aren't international laws at all rather they are CONVENTIONS and they only become binding if all subject countries signed it so in reality Greece is trying to steal Turkish EEZ according to INTERNATIONAL LAWS :))
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This was mostly neutral but there were still downplaying facts and some huge mistakes, for example PKK was so wickedly attacking civilians including even Kurdish civilians the second highest casualty in this conflict after terrorists themselves isn't Turkish army, police nor civilians at all rather it is actually KURDS, civilians and especially Kurdish village guards that PKK killed thousands of them! There are hundreds of villages in southeastern Turkey alone and because the region is extremely mountainous Turkish army couldn't protect all villages constantly and Kurdish villagers were becoming easy targets for PKK raids. As a solution the government trained and armed Kurdish civilians so they could defend themselves until the army arrived. I bet some people may think ''Kurdish'' PKK and Kurdish villagers didn't fight against each others but in reality it is terrorist PKK which was seizing their assests while calling it ''tax'' and even forcefully recruiting their children! So Kurdish village guards pretty much always fought against them even if they were greatly outnumbered, while PKK simply declared them as ''traitors'' and mercilessly killed thousands of them!! Especially in 90s their violence was out of control if a Kurdish intellectual could talk against PKK would be found dead in their homes. Suicide bombing attacks in public buses, squires, markets, stations, stadiums you name it and this is the reason why literally DOZENS of countries recognize PKK as a terrorist organization as they really are terrorists!! PKK isn't committing as many terrorist attacks as before doesn't prove they magically changed like some westerners claim. Rather it is mainly because they can not smuggle both arms and themselves through Turkish-Iraqi anymore because of constant surveillance by drones. In 90s the best Turkey could do was building border outposts along the mountanious border to literally watch the border with soldiers and several dozen soldiers in a mountain peak were often becoming a target themselves..
It is true KDP asked support from even saddam but they did that out of desperation, after years of infighting they were exhausted and with great Iranian support PUK was gaining upper hand. This was also the point PKK joined PUK alliance not after KDP asked support from Iraqi government, there is a timelapse for obvious reasons! It was also completely ignored after PUK territorial gains in 1997 Turkey invaded norhern Iraq with 60,000 soldiers as PKK alliance couldn't be allowed to win the civil war and gain huge support. Instead of the truth it is told like Barzani stopped the civil war by swinging his magical wand for obvious reasons. This Turkish intervention and ending the civil war in favour of KDP was also the reason why Turkey and Barzanis have been allies since then and 15 Turkish bases were built in KDP territories started from 1998 for training Peshmerga forces and providing security.
It is also a completely a false Turkey blocked KRG's access to the world, in fact both Barzani and Talabani also many Iraqi Kurds have TURKISH diplomatic passports so they can travel through Turkey freely and ask for support from other nations. What more Turkey supposed to do than giving people diplomatic passports who aren't even Turkish citizens, huh?? Then they also completely ignored vast majority of KRG's trade travel through Turkey including 95% of their oil exports and this was the only reason KRG could survive so long. Then comes ''Turkey using PKK as an excuse to attack YPG'' nonsense, while in reality there are around TWO THOUSAND PKK terrorists in YPG's ranks, in fact even the commander of YPG is a ''former'' PKK terrorists called Mazloum Abdi! This isn't a secret or anything, just search his name you would see he is a known PKK terrorist, but no worries according to our ''trustworthy'' allies he retired being a terrorist and he is a democratic hero now!! Turkey will never ever accept this moronity, while the only way PKK terrorists can be declared innocent they will surrender and apologize to the people that they killed thousands of them. Until it happens Turkey will continue targeting them in every opportunity or YPG can cut it's ties with PKK, in fact Turkey actually asked it from US many times before starting operations against them which was ofc forgotten again! However with even it's commander being a PKK terrorist i guess it is extremely unlikely they can cut ties or could be even called seperate organizations...
PS: There aren't 30-40 million Kurdish people living Kurdistan, for example over 12 million Kurdish people out of Turkey's around 18 million Kurdish minority live in WESTERN Turkey not in Kurdistan. While the biggest Kurdish city in the world isn't Erbil, Sanadaj or Diyarbakır rather ISTANBUL with 3 million Kurdish population! They could at least research about populations properly but nope! By the way even if im a Turkish person im fully supporting a Kurdish state they suffered a lot especially in Iraq and we would rather having a border with a Kurdish state than Iraqis or Syrians. But a KURDISH state not a terrorist state, we will never ever support such a country and even fight against it's forces as long as those PKK terrorists are in charge..
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
― Noam Chomsky
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
-Noam Chomsky
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
-Noam Chomsky
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@jeanmoulin1443 If you aren't really biased then i have no idea what biased means as there were so many mistakes and double standarts in your message that i will mention one by one:
1- ''indigenous slavery was abolished in 1512, indigenous peoples were already considered Spanish citizens/subjects''
This is just completely false as Spanish empire weren't considering indigenous people as full citizens with same rights as Spanish people at all!! Rather Spanish empire established encomienda system that Spanish invidiuals, officials, Christian organziations that i mentioned earlier were given lands which had Indigenous people living on them already. The new owner was responsible for the Indigenous people, he would see to their instruction in Christianity, their education and their safety.
In return, Indigenous people would supply food, gold, minerals, wood or whatever valuable commodity could be extracted from the land WITHOUT any payment!! So in reality, the encomienda system was very little more than enslavement and indigenous people were forced to work in fields and mines, often until they literally dropped dead. It was so bad in 1542 King Charles of Spain finally decided to do something about the murders and torture being carried out in his name and issued ''the new laws'' but sadly when he tried to enforce those new laws in colonies he faced strong resistance from Spanish conquistadors and settlers, in fact even a civil war happened in Peru so the new laws were suspended and a watered-down version was passed in 1552..
So your claim ''Indigenous people were citizens of Spanish empire'' is just a baseless nonsense and in reality Spanish empire never ever considered indigenous people as full citizens.
2- ''So? Who can blame them for revolting? It was not a genocide yet, but the Ottoman empire was constantly discriminating them and massacring them.''
Could you please share when exactly Ottoman massacred Armenians before their revolt? Or how exactly Ottoman was constantly discriminating against them?? In reality Armenians were FULL CITIZENS of Ottoman unlike indigenous people and always had the freedom to work, live, believe whatever and wherever they wanted. Under Millet system they were even free to operate their own schools, Churches, courts and issue their own laws according to their own Orthodox values!! They never ever had to work in fields or mines for their Muslim land owners, never ever had to go Muslim schools and learn Muslim values and Turkish rather only had to pay slightly higher tax than Muslim citizens called Jizya tax!! It couldn't be even considered as a discrimination if we compare how Spanish etc european empires were treating minorities during that era. In fact conditions were so good for Armenians they never ever rebelled against Turkish empires for exactly 873 years and they were called ''Milleti sadıka'' by Ottoman which means ''the loyal nation''!! Until 1914 their first rebellion happened but ofc they were still massacred somehow while indigenous people weren't massacred at all rather ''they were Spanish citizens'', right??? This is one of the points you are so extremely biased without any question at all..
3- ''hundreds of thousands of Turks did not die like you're suggesting'', ''more than 1.5 million people'', ''Armeinan self-defense'', ''a few Turks'':
There is a space in that link before edu (I didn't write it due i thought you would notice it) due youtube doesn't like sharing links rather deletes messages so you should delete the space then try it!! If you read that article you would see it is an academic writing from a FRENCH author and published by seven AMERICAN universities where it says AT LEAST 300,000 Turkish civilians were killed by using ENTENTE sources so it wasn't ''a few Turks'' at all. And this is civilian casualties alone so care to explain please how exactly Armenians killed 300,000 civilians by ''self-defense''?? Ottoman was using battalions of women and children to target them??? These are only very cheap excuses, in fact there were 1.2 million Armenians in entire Ottoman in 1910 while even if Russian empire invaded entire eastern Turkey in 1914 where most of Armenians were living Ottoman still managed to massacre 1.5 million somehow even if it was way higher than total population and hundreds of thousands Armenians actually arrived in Syria and Lebanon then migrated to western countries later on!! This alone shows what kind of ridiculous disinformation is happening and exactly same goes with claiming ''Armenians started to target Turkish civilians after they were targeted'' due here is an Armenian official admitting they were literally a Russian proxy and started preparations for the revolt even BEFORE Ottoman joined WW1!! How Turks wanted to CONFER but they refused because they believed they were going to win!!! Literally everything is there but ofc you can't find such articles in your so ''truthful'' media:
https://www.tc-america.org/files/Katchaznouni.pdf
I strongly recommend you to read both articles fully.
4- ''Armenian genocide and other atrocities have to be forgotten or forgiven'', ''keep mentioning atrocities by other countries'':
Sadly you didn't understand my point at all due i kept mentioning other atrocities and genocides to point out a fact nobody recgonizes them!! For example is there a single western country which recognized Circassian genocide?? NOPE!! Is there a single western country which recognized Crimean genocide?? NOPE!! And sadly many don't even consider it as a genocide rather ''Crimean deportation'' even if hundreds of thousands people got killed. Exactly same goes with atrocities and deportation of Muslims from Balkans that nobody recognizes them and literally acts like ''they were peacefully disappeared from Balkans''!! Exactly same goes for Armenian genocide that even if hundreds of thousands of Turkish civilians were killed western countries are completely ignoring Turkish casualties or worse even justifying them by ''self-defense'', ''Armenian resistance'' etc nonsenses!!! If this isn't forgotten or forgiven atrocities what is it exactly? Christian people are more important than Muslim people so Muslim casualties are ignored?? Why there isn't a single western country admitting Armenians targeted Turkish civilians as well and recognizes both Turkish and Armenian atrocities??? This is the whole point of my messages due in these wicked political schemes the true forgotten or forgiven atrocities are committed against Turks/Muslims not Armenians at all...
5- ''it was completely INTENTIONAL''
Spanish empire wanted to turn the land more profitable by assimilating or slaughtering native populations and they did exactly that while an entire civilization disappeared forever!! There was absolutely nothing ''unintentional'' rather they were all planned and systematically enforced so this is another a very cheap excuse. On the other hand Ottoman chose to suppress Armenian revolt by displacing them to Syria and Lebanon, there was never ever an order to Ottoman soldiers for killing civilians. But the displacement conditions were truly terrible and hundreds of thousands innocent people died because of cold, illnesses etc. It could be argued Ottoman officials knew conditions were terrible so it was intentional or it could be even a genocide due despite your nonsense i've never ever claimed it wasn't a genocide!! But on the other hand Armenians also tried to intentionally ''save'' aka ethnic cleanse their historical lands even if those lands were Muslim majority for many centuries. And worse they did it with entente support especially Russian empire which committed a genocide in Circassia only few decades ago and deported over a million people into Ottoman from Crimea etc, then doesn't what Armenians did also become a genocide, huh??? With what kind of ''divine right'' you people are completely ignoring atrocities committed against Turks/Muslims while somehow acting like you are humanist and just want justice???? I wish more people were truly humanist and we could recognize all those atrocities but sadly you people aren't humanist at all, rather just biased jokes.
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China invaded East Turkestan and still torturing the people who lived there for thousands of years who aren't chinese, don't have any chinese culture and even their religion is very different but somehow China considers those lands as part of their main land same as Tibet! China unlawfully occupies many lands and even threatens it's neighbours for more land such as Japan, Korea, Phillipines, India, Brunei, Malaysia, Vietnam, Taiwan which are almost every damn neighbour. I can say their water is boiling and China will get invaded again because the main reason why China couldn't invade many lands wasn't because they were anything near 'peaceful', because they were always weak even if they always had way superior population or economy than it's enemies. 'China became superpower, China will rule the world' those are nonsense of people who don't know any history! China will get invaded again like it got invaded 20-30 times by it's neighbours in the past if they don't stop torturing people and become actually peaceful...
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@ibrahimsafwat First of all i wasn't trying to point you claimed you were an expert at all rather trying to point out your lack of expertise while you were so enthusiastic to argue technical details that you had no idea about but i guess it was too complicated for you, LMAO!! But at least you dropped majority of technical details and started a political argument which is way more suitable for your skill set but even then you still made some major mistakes, lets look at them closer:
1- ''I wasn't talking about Turkish occupation of Syria rather operations against YPG/PKK''
Turkey launched operations against YPG/PKK on Moon? On Mars perhaps?? Or by a very slight chance they were in Syria, huh??? Also in your original message there isn't a single time YPG/PKK got mentioned, in fact you talk about watching isis videos and ''unharmed'' Leopard tanks that you couldn't talk about Leopard tanks in operations against YPG/PKK at first place as not a single one of them got damaged during those operations therefore there are no videos of Leopards getting damaged in those operations!! So this is just an example of your fickleness..
2- ''Turkish soldiers are no different''
As i stated before saudis couldn't push into Houthi territories, in fact Houthis kept attacking saudi targets even in Saudi Arabia by rockets and simple missiles while Turkey pushed into both isis and YPG/PKK territories, cleared them from terrorists and completely stopped any attacks on Turkish soil, in fact Turkey ended up occupying 10% of Syria so care to explain how exactly there is no difference?? And why don't you share those videos from YPG/PKK about Turkish forces leaving armored vehicles behind??? You will never ever share them due they don't exist rather there are videos like this, LMAO!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOLO1SdvX0U
3- ''This argument is about Turkish crew, not about Turkish operations''
I wonder how long did you think before writing that paragraph?? Not long enough for sure due operations determine how crews have to act, for example i pointed out the difference between not having proper infantry support between euphrates shield and olive branch operations as in first one 10 Turkish Leopards got damaged while in second it was NONE!! You also ignore US and Russian tank loses in similar operations even if there were hundreds of loses, why was that?? Also because of incompetency of the US and Russian tanks crews???🤣🤣
4- Here comes the political nonsense ''your greatest weapon'' that you somehow act like it was Turkey who supported Syrian rebels since 2011, LMAO!! While in reality entire US coalition including Germany, France and UK and gulf states armed, trained and supplied Syrian rebels against assad starting from 2012 while Turkey didn't directly support any groups until Turkey supported YPG/PKK in 2014 and Turkmen groups in 2015 but let US coalition to freely use Turkish soil for shipments!! In 2014 isis started to attack Kurdish majority region such as Kobane and millions of Turkish Kurds started to demonstrate for Turkey to help them but dumbrse erdogan wasn't willing to enter Syria as casualties would reduce his support so instead he offered support for anybody who wants to join YPG and fight against isis that thousands of PKK terrorists from Turkey and Peshmerga from North Iraq accepted this offer and traveled to Kobane through Turkey that Peshmerga returned after Kurdish majority region got saved but PKK terrorists stayed!! Back then peace talks between PKK and Turkey was still ongoing so dumbrse erdogan didn't care about PKK presence in Syria nor even in Turkey so he also gave green light for US to support them and north eastern Syria was cleared from isis!! While in north western Syria isis was still pushing forward and they captured Turkmen majority cities very close to Turkey such as Azaz then Turkey started to arm, train and supply Turkmen groups directly that they captured back Turkmen majority region from isis in late 2015 that Russian plane also got shot down during this period as Russians saw direct Turkish involvement as a threat due even if those Turkmen groups were fighting against isis they were still enemies of assad regime and Russia was bombing them until a Russian plane got shot down which damaged Turkish-Russian relations greatly but they stopped bombing them!! In late 2015 another incident happened that after 3 years peace talks between PKK and Turkey failed after PKK kept demanding general amnesty including even PKK members who killed innocent people that Turkey wanted them to surrender their weapons for such a thing but they refused and threatened to attack prisons (Dumbrse erdogan's peace talks was a mistake from beginning) so Turkey started to attack PKK terrorists again while YPG could just expel PKK members in their ranks and stay neutral but instead they merged with PKK and changed their name to SDF in 2016 after this point US started to refuse YPG/PKK connection as they needed them in Syria against Iranian coalition and Turkey started it's own operations to clear both isis and PKK presence in Syria while forming Syrian national army from FSA!! So your claim that Turkey supports terrorists is just laughably wrong as Turkey didn't and doesn't support any terrorist groups from HTS to isis what so ever and you can't see a single Turkish weapons on their hands while you can see Turkish weapons in FSA especially Turmen groups and who considers FSA as terrorist??? Nobody, LMAO!! So if you want to see who really supports terrorism look for US coalition and gulf states who directly supported isis for years, in fact there are clear evidence even after isis got establsihed gulf states continued to support them through Jordan and thousands of Jordanians joined isis!! Here reduce your ignorance a little bit:
https://www.jstor.org/stable/26351315?seq=1#metadata_info_tab_contents
While how many Turks joined isis??? Around a dozen, in fact there are way more French people who joined isis than Turkish but even then ''TuRkeY suPpoRtS teRroRiSts'' according to you very ''honest'' and ''well informed'' people :))
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@h.b.7104 I always find it really amusing the utterly ignorant people like you could call other people ignorant, LMAO!! Here is actually what happened to Whitaker report and what the Sub-commission decided, read it many times as needed until you finally realize UN didn't recognize Armenian genocide in 1985 without any question at all:
In the debates over whether to accept the report the Sub-Commission's final report stated:
According to various speakers, the Special Rapporteur had correctly interpreted his mandate in referring, for instance in paragraph 24 of his report, to specific cases of allegations of genocide in past. The lessons of history were indispensable to keep the conscience of the world alive, and prevent the recurrence of that odious crime. Other participants felt that the Special Rapporteur should have dealt exclusively with the problem of preventing future genocides, without referring to past events which were difficult or impossible to investigate. Turning specifically to the question of the massacre of the Armenians, the view was expressed by various speakers that such massacres indeed constituted genocide, as was well documented by the Ottoman military trials of 1919, eyewitness reports and official archives. Objecting to such a view, various participants argued that the Armenian massacre was not adequately documented and that certain evidence had been forged.
— Sub-Commissions final report:
That opinions of the Sub-Commission were split came to the fore over the wording of the resolution to accept the report. In the end the second and weaker of two proposed resolutions was adopted, one that took note of the study and thanked Whitaker for his efforts and also noted "that divergent opinions have been expressed about the content and proposals of the report". Schabas states that "An attempt to strengthen the resolution by expressing the Sub-Commissions's thanks and congratulations for 'some' of the proposals in the report was resoundingly defeated"
I hope you finally realized UN Sub-Commission didn't accept full Whitaker report rather excluded debated and false parts!! But i really doubt you will admit it as you are one of those people who constantly wear rose-coloured glasses so according to your ''the most neutral'' opinion we are evil, barbarians, genociders etc etc while you people never ever committed any genocides nor even atrocities rather you are literally living angels on Earth!!! And this is the reason why you kept ignoring Turkish casualties during ''Armenian genocide'' while in reality no country experienced similar civilian casualties in all those real genocides!!! Keep wearing your rose-coloured glasses and hate us as much as you can due we Turks couldn't care less, we aren't one of those nations which kneel down before others rather we kept fighting in our entire history and we will keep fighting in future as well including diplomacy. So when you ridiculous people finally remove your rose-coloured glasses and recognize Turkish/Muslim casualties during Armenian Rebellion, Crimean genocide, Circassian genocide only then we will recognize their suffering as unlike you muddy minded we don't see any difference between a Crimean, Turk, Circassian or Armenian...
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@ihavetruth4314 The real astonishing thing here how you could claim very absurdly that ''Armenia didn't declare war on Turkey due they knew they couldn't defeat Turkey alone'' while in reality Turkey was already fighting against France which occupied southern Turkey, British empire which occupied southeastern and northwestern Turkey and Greece which occupied western Turkey in 1920!! And total numbers of those invasion forces were many times larger than Turkish forces, in fact after France, British empire and Armenia got defeated in the east and all Turkish forces were fighting against Greece anymore Greek army still had 200,000 soldiers against only 130,000 Turkish soldiers!!! So if you knew any real history you would know Armenia had a great chance of capturing so called armenian lands which were Turkish majority for at least 400 years and this is why they indeed declared war on Turkey at 24 September 1920...
And your this sentence ''mitigating the wish of their people to get rid of rheir opressors'' only shows how ridiculously biased you are as according to this ''logic'' Armenians were killing Turkish civilians who committed no crimes against them for getting rid of oppression somehow!!! You very ridiculous people are trying to claim Armenian displacement was a genocide and compare it with Holocaust etc but in reality how many innocent Germans were killed by Jewish people?? ZERO!! How many innocent Turks were killed by ''harmless'' and ''peaceful'' Armenians who only tried to ''get rid of opression''??? Hundreds of thousands!!!! If you weren't so inhumane and biased you would admit there is something seriously wrong here and obviously falsified for political reasons...
Same goes for your ''formely captured lands'' nonsense like Turks captured those lands only several decades ago or something. While in reality Turks captured those lands in 1071 EXACTLY 849 YEARS before 1920 and even if they controlled those lands so long there were still millions of Armenians living in those lands who could still preserve their religion, language and culture even if they were constantly facing ''a terrible opression'', right?? While in reality care to share a single place on Earth where local populations faced 849 years long ''a terrible oppression'' and could preserve their religion, language and cultuıre??? There is no such a place on Earth, in fact countless people became Christians, Muslims etc while started talking Arabic, English, French, Russian etc much much lesser time than 800 years!! While Armenians could preserve those things as Turkish empires never ever tried to assimilate them, in fact they were considered as full Ottoman citizens under Millet system as long as they could pay their slightly higher Jizya tax and if they join Ottoman government (Architects, engineers, diplomats, generals etc etc) they were free of tax!! Now go find me a single European empire which gave Muslims full citizenship?? What about accepting Muslims into their government??? Nope, you can't find a single European empire, in fact they weren't even considering Muslims as citizens and when they captured Iberian peninsula in 1492 they issued an order for all Muslims and also JEWS converting into Christianity that hundreds of thousands Muslims and Jews migrated into Ottoman where religious tolerance was a million times better!! In fact both ''Ottoman tolerance'' and ''The religion of peace'' references come from this era but according to you very ''humanist'' people who are also terribly ignorant about history only the lives of Christians matter so European empires ethnic cleansed Crimea, Circassia, two entire continents or hundreds of Turkish civilians got killed etc who cares, rather only Armenian lives matter, right??? Just get lost...
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@ihavetruth4314 First of all you ''historian'' seriously need to learn some history as you are literally calling Ottoman history ''Turkey'' and that ''late Turkey'' was total cringe as in reality it would mean after 2000 Turkey while you are using it for only God knows what era!! And secondly it was quite hilarious how you called Fraco-Ottoman alliance ''not any disprove of my argument'' aka ''irrelevant'' which is something your kind of people (The ignorant kind) would often mention if they are stuck in argument, LMAO!! Due it was really out of despair then care to explain why exactly France remained as an Ottoman ally for 300 YEARS, huh ''genius''??? And the worst part there were even more Ottoman allies:
Naples-Ottoman alliance starting from 1495
Polish–Ottoman alliance sf 1503
Bohemian-Ottoman alliance sf 1618
Swedish-Ottoman alliance sf 1700
British-Ottoman alliance sf 1713
German-Ottoman alliance sf 1879
But i guess these all were out of despair..
''government organised mass killing of civilians'' total nonsense:
1) Are there a single Ottoman or any other country document got found so far proving it was indeed government organised??
NOPE..
2) Are there a single Armenian mass grave got found so far as it was really mass killings then there must be thousands of them???
NOPE...
3) ''civilian casualties inflicted really during the act of war as the result of battles'' It is REALLY amusing to see you are somehow trying to claim ''Ottoman genocided ''peaceful'' and ''unarmed'' Armenians'' and at the same time trying to justfiy Armenians killing Turkish civilians by saying they were a result of battles but i guess you ''genius'' forgot about you just claimed Ottoman genocided ''unarmed'' Armenians few sentences ago so what battles you are talking about, LMAO!! And care to explain how exactly Armenians were trying to defend themselves by killing Turkish civilians?? I guess Ottoman had entire battalions from Turkish women and children so Armenians had to kill hundreds of thousands innocent people for defending themselves even if vast majority of those killied Turkish civilians weren't even in Ottoman territories rather Armenian or Russian occupied territories in eastern Turkey such as i guess you ''historian'' have no idea even Armenian capital Yerevan had 40% Turkish population who ''peacefully'' disappeared??? So you are the ''idiot and hypocrite'' here who is trying to justify the killing of civilians by extreme nonsenses like ''war casualties''...
Then once again the real whataboutism here talking about a book of massacres and ''the great evil'' while you people have AN ENTIRE LIBRARY of massacres with HUNDREDS of books so it is very easy for anybody who doesn't constantly wear rose-colored glasses to see who is ''the great evil'' and what ''values'' you people have, capish??? And even more ridiculous thing i've never ever claimed such a thing as Ottoman never committed atrocities as it would be a lie simply because Ottoman committed atrocities like every single nation on Earth!! But you ridiculous and racist person kept talking about absolute nonsenses like great evils or massacre books etc while your entire history is built on suffering of innocent people and when this fact is slapped on your face it becomes ''not any disprove of my argument'', ''irrelevant'', ''blaming others for your own crimes'' etc etc :))
The end was the most amusing part where you claimed erdogan was a nationalist but in reality erdogan is an islamist, in fact he is against Turkish nationalism while you extremely ignorant people are calling him nationalist, LMAO!! By the way erdogan has absolutely nothing to do with our subject in any way at all so care to explain why you brought him up, ran out of arguments?? Or trying to scale up your whataboutism??? But no worries as you are still a total failure due you mention ''erdogan arresting every reasonable Turk'' while in reality how many people got arrested from CHP which is Republican and Secularist party also the biggest rival of erdogan's AKP??? ZERO!! But i guess Secularists aren't reasonable Turks for you ''knowing everything'', LMAO!! You are just a total joke, a teenager with supremacist and racist ideas blindly hating a nation according to his very limited historical knowledge!! So it is very ironic there are millions of racist people like you in so ''democratic and civilized'' west who are killing innocent people only because of their colour even today while in ''uncivilized'' Turkey i can't even remember when last time i saw a racist attack in news, in fact i just checked it out and apperantly 280 racist attacks happened in Turkey in last 10 years while in UK 80,393 racist attacks happened in 2016 ALONE!! Wow, i can feel how ''civilized'' people you are indeed...
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-41648865
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This video was surprisingly neutral, i thought it was going to downright blame us like western media and this biased greek joke but he fairly mentioned why we are upset and there is a real possiblity of war because actions of spoiled Greeks. Still there were missing points, first of all there are so many Turkish ''violations'' of Greek airspace because Greece increased their airspace to 12 miles in Aegean while their territorial waters are still 6 miles. So they became the ONLY country on Earth which has longer airspace than their territorial waters or borders!! Turkey completely refuses this airspace increase and acts like Greek airspace is still 6 miles so there are Turkish ''violations'' literally everyday. Secondly if Greece increases their territorial waters to 12 miles the international channel in middle of Aegean disappears and not only all ship traffic going to Istanbul gets blocked also several large cities literally become landlocked including İzmir. So there is no way at all Turkey can accept 12 miles Greek territorial waters without an agreement guraanteing safe passage or an international corridor. There is really no other way, in fact Turkey officially considers declearing 12 miles territorial waters as a declaration of war that's why Greece couldn't do it so far instead only increased their airspace to 12 miles..
It gets even worse if we include treaty of Lausanne which forbids any militarization not just foritification of islands close to Turkey and Greece is very clearly violating it, even their former PM publicly acknowledged they indeed violating treaty of Lausanne. Turkey officially accepted those islands as Greek islands in only treaty of Lausanne so violating it is so insanely stupid for Greece as everything might happen if it is revoked!! Turkey wouldn't invade southern Cyprus or Greek islands with large Greek populations like Samos or Rhodes but there are THOUSANDS of islands, islets and rocks in Aegean without any population at all or only few hundred including Kastellorizo which might be invaded and claimed to increase Turkish territorial waters in Aegean. Kastellorizo is also a huge problem as it reduces Turkish EEZ over 100,000 km2 alone even if it has only 200 population. No country on Earth would accept such an EEZ, in fact English islands next to France have reduced terrorital waters and EEZ, French islands next to Canada have reduced EEZ, Spanish islands next to Morocco have reduced territorial waters and EEZ, Finish islands next to Sweden have reduced terrirotiral waters and EEZ, Ukranian island next to Romania has reduced EEZ but only God knows how exactly Greek islands next to Turkey must have full territorial waters and EEZ!! Turkey will never ever accept such a moronity and there will be war instead for sure. While militarizing Greek islands doesn't reduce a chance of Turkish invasion at all, those islands are so close to Turkey some of them are even in RIFLE range and they all are constantly monitored. You can bet Turkish army even knows how many times those Greek soldiers pissing in a day not just their exact positions so in case of war they will be targeted so badly with rockets, missiles and shells they will desert their positions and hide in cities in no time!! It is just an impossible task to defend those islands especially against a force with hundreds of armed drones. It would be far better for them if they actually respect treaty of Lausanne or even better sign a new agreement with Turkey permanently fixing issues...
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
--Noam Chomsky
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@vasilisantonopoulos9326 First of all i must say you really have some good points but same as you claim for me you can't see the whole picture neither. For example Roman empire gave equal rights to everybody? Then i wonder who were Dediticii?? And as a defeated nation you Greeks would be Dediticii in Ottoman empire having little more rights than slaves not full citizens! And for 500 years Roman empire considered only Latini as citizens so lets not forget about that neither. Then i have no idea what you are talking about with ''after Theodosious there was absolute freedom of religion'' because even during rule of Theodosious there were many temples destroyed and masscres committed like Thessalonica which never stopped until pagan population disappeared within the empire!! It is true there were Greek or Armenian emperors of Byzantine but you act like it was a choice while in reality after western Roman empire collapsed there were no Latini to rule anymore expect a small minority in Constantinople that you Greeks killed them all, remember?! I really have no idea how you could glorify Roman/Byzantine empires this much while there are countless masscres, discrimination, enslavement against even Greeks. You don't care about none of those because there were some Greek emperors? I wonder what was going to happen if western Roman empire didn't collapse and continued ruling the east..
About Ottoman you are just wrong about most of your points. Christians weren't second class citizens rather full citizens of Ottoman which could open schools freely so it is just propaganda that those schools were ''secret''. Even many French, English, German, American schools were opened later on! It is also propaganda that no church could be longer than mosques, there were rules about preserving churches exactly same as they were. So if a Christian community wanted to make their church larger or taller it wasn't allowed officially at least. It was also forbidden to build new churches again officially but there are many churches which got built during Ottoman era so it was allowed sometimes. I think you don't understand what im trying to mean, i don't defend you Greeks had no right to want your own country, ofc having your own country is many times better in every way possible. Im only saying we weren't that bad alright and far better than literally ALL European empires and even yourselves treated their minorities (You dodged my question about how people got blinded or executed by Byzantine which is quite a lot) so you shouldn't consider us enemies and blame us for everything. I would completely agree and even add Catholics have many times more Orthodox blood on their hands than we Turks do and this isn't a claim rather a sad fact. And that's how they assimmilated millions, it is just childish to claim any culture can assimmilate others peacefully as we all are tribalist in our nature, trying to preserve what we have unless it is a matter of life or death. So you Greeks aren't still Greeks because you are stubborn rather because we didn't make it a matter of life or death for you. Ottoman benefited from this strategy greatly? Sure, it did for many centuries until french revolution spread nationalism and extremely multi-cultural Ottoman was doomed while European empires weren't affected much i wonder why..
About Turkey ofc you are always quick to claim genocides etc but did you ever wonder how many people we Muslims lost during same time? There were 13 million Muslims living in Anatolia in 1914 while there were 10.5 million Muslims left in 1923 and 500,000 Muslims came from Greece while many hundreds of thousands were born during that 9 years. So at least THREE MILLION Muslims died if not way more while we were ''genociding'' you!! Im not a liar so i won't claim all three million people were genocided by Greek army and armenian militia even if hundreds of thousands were indeed killed, rather there were many more factors. War casualties, lack of food, supplies and medicine, spanish flu which was extra devastating and there were atrocities! So at the end Turkey literally inherited a giant graveyard from Ottoman and adopted nationalist state model that many western countries uses France, Spain, Germany, Italy etc and also Greece! And it did with zero discrimination against people themselves rather by pro-Turkish policies. For example there was never spesifically Kurdish language banned in any way rather it was banned to publish in other languages than Turkish. Another example would be why Turkey didn't join WW2 it was because Turkey had 17 million population in 1940 and at least 8 million of them were under 16 years old, imagine joining a wold war against Germany while 50% of your people are children!! Then you could consider Varlik Vergisi as a discrimination somehow while the country was actually facing severe conditions like this. Turkey was their country as well and wealth tax has been issued everywhere especially during troubled times..
After Turkey recovered all those laws were changed and Kurdish people can publish in their own language anymore and operate their own schools as well. I would also agree Kurdish language should be second official language of Turkey. However this isn't so true about Greece, for example care to explain why exactly you call Turkish minority Muslim minority, huh?? They are so ''free'' and have ''so many'' rights they can't even call themselves Turkish!! You are always quick to judge us but instead you should step back a little and try to see whole picture then you would see we are same, trying to just survive not rule!! About EOKA and Turkish-British relations, ask Turkish people on streets if they consider British or Greek people closer vast majority of them would say Greeks. But you don't allow our relations to heal and develop rather supporting right wing organizations instead which could be even considered as terrorists like EOKA-B, then what do you expect us to do really? We are extending our hand but you spit on it because we invaded your ''historical and rightful lands'' while Brits shake our hand, it is just that simple. UK changed a lot in last decades and following much better policies but still i would rather being an ally with Greece than UK...
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This was mostly quite funny but still i have to mention few huge mistakes as it looks like they are misunderstood or just propaganda:
1- Erodgan's Ottoman love has nothing to do with expansionism, Turkey doesn't have any claims at all past our current borders even if we actually have a right to claim. I bet most of you have no idea but Turkey actually can claim Mosul as it was ceded to British Iraq with conditions which were violated in recent decades. But we will never claim Mosul or anywhere else as Turkey might look small on world map while in reality it is second largest country in Europe so we don't need more lands and especially more problems those lands would bring especially if those lands are so destabilized..
2- So ''Ottoman love'' isn't about international politics rather it is about domestic politics. In the west there is this perception about Turkish war of independence that ''Turkish nationalists'' won but in reality we call them Turkish revolutionaries not nationalists simply because there were all kind of political factions in it. Nationalists, liberals, islamists, communists you name it, while nationalsits + liberals + communists were the majority coalition in the parliament so they did mostly what they wanted and there were many arguments even during first years of Turkey. This was also the reason why soviet union saw the new government as a possible ally and heavily supported them during the war. After war was over the reform era began and islamists were again mostly ignored, Ataturk himself tried to include them into government not once rather twice as he didn't want an one sided solution but his attempts failed because the government couldn't function anymore because of never ending arguments. After him the left coalition took it further and began suppresing islamist-right wing even with coups sometimes. So Turkish right wing always felt they weren't listened and part of this new Turkey while erdogan represents their lost voice, at least acting like he does and all those Ottoman propaganda to claim that.
3- Turkey didn't support any side in Syria until late 2015, 4 years after the war began! And it changed because first isis then syrian government began attacking Turkmen cities like Azaz so Turkey began arming Turkmen groups against both of them. Russian plane was also shot down because it was targeting Turkmen groups in Azaz after crisis both Russians and assadists had to stop targeting Turkmens. Later in 2016 Turkey began supporting FSA who aren't jihadists and began establishing security corridor through entire Syrian border. Currently there are over 5 million mostly displaced Syrians are living in this corridor and HTS controlled Idlib not according to Turkey rather according to UN! And vast majority of those people don't want to live under assad's rule which means if assadists capture those territories most of them will run into Turkey and become refugees further increasing already 3.5 million Syrian refugees inside Turkey. We can not allow such a thing to happen so Turkey will keep occupying northern Syria until Syrians are convinced to return government areas if it ever happens ofc as assadists killed hundreds of thousands civilians in the war. Turkey entered Idlib according to Astana agreement signed by Turkey and Russia YEARS before assadists were even close to the region. In 2020 assadists could defeat indeed jihadist HTS and push into Idlib close to Turkish checkpoints but Turkey forced them to stop as there are 4 million displaced Syrians in Idlib. There was even a small scale conflict as russia/assadists attacked a Turkish base and killed many soldiers as a retaliation Turkey launched an operation and killed several thousand of assadists mostly with drones. After SNA was established from FSA ofc Turkmen groups became also a part of SNA but they aren't majority rather SNA is majority Arab.
4- 12 million Kurdish people out of Turkey's 18 million Kurdish minority live in WESTERN Turkey not eastern Turkey. And the biggest Kurdish city in the world is not Diyarbakır, Sanandaj or Erbil rather it is İstanbul with 3 million Kurdish population! So it is completely false Turkey has been always at a war with it's Kurdish minority, vast majority of us live peacefully and do not want any separation, in fact there are over 4 million marriages between us! Also because of this unity vast majority of Kurdish people in western Turkey do not teach their children Kurdish anymore and Kurdish speaking population has been decreasing exactly same as Wales, Scotland, Catalonia etc. But ofc Kurdish ultranationalists see this unity as the end of their nation began ''an independence war'' as marxists first with soviet funding. After soviet union collapsed and their funding was gone, they started using drug trafficking to finance them and it is still their main income trafficking mostly heroin from Afghanistan to Europe. But ofc they are also mercenaries to hire, they even fought for Iran between 1994-1997 during Kurdish civil war while they began American mercenaries after 2003, first under umbrella of PUK peshmerga (PUK and US made a deal to cooperate in the region, while PUK is 100% legitimate Kurdish forces but they also often used PKK terrorists in their ranks as they were in an alliance with them until recent years) while later as YPG/SDF. There are around 2000 PKK terrorists in YPG ranks and even their commander Mazloum Kobani is actually a known PKK terrorists, just search his name you will see. But don't worry our western ''allies'' made sure he is a retired terrorist now rather ''a hero of democracy''...
5- First of all Azerbaijanis and us don't only have Turkic ties, we were literally same people in the past called SELJUKS! Seljuk empire controlled a massive area from Iran to Caucasus and Anatolia so as a result some Seljuk Turks settled into Anatolia, some into Caucasus, some into Iran. In time we established different countries and became slightly different nations, we are exactly like Germans and Austrians, we are basicly same people but have different countries. And Turkey was always supporting Azerbaijan even a hundred years ago! You have no idea but russian empire only surrendered to Germans in the west while kept fighting against Ottoman in the east during WW1. So Ottoman organized a massive counteroffensive to save Azerbaijanis from russian occupation in 1918, everybody knew the war was over and Ottoman lost but still they couldn't abandon Azerbaijanis! It was extremely successful they could push russians as far as Dagestan and completely cleared Caucasus from any entente forces so that's how all Caucasus countries could declare their independence from Russian empire in 1918. Ottoman surrendered only few weeks later and soldiers were called back then russians invaded Caucasus again in 1920 as Bolsheviks this time but still even not yet established Turkey couldn't abandon Azerbaijanis so there was serious arguments to include Azerbaijan to Kuvâ-yi Milliye (Cores of Turkish republic) which would mean there was going to be a war between Soviets and Turkey almost 100%. But Turkish war of independence was still ongoing on the other side Russian civil war was still ongoing so both sides decided to fix the issue diplomatically. Treaty of Kars was signed in 1921 which ceded many territories to both Turkey and Azerbaijan and Soviets recognized both independence and borders of all Caucasus countries and their borders are exactly same as 1921 today expect Armenian invasion of Azerbaijan ofc. Armenian majority Karabakh is only 7% of Azerbaijan while Armenia invaded 20% of Azerbaijan literally three times larger area and displaced over 800,000 Azerbaijanis! If anybody could imagine we would let such injustice to slide you just have no idea who we are. With our support Azerbaijan liberated it's territories and the region returned to it's lawful 1921 status but it is not enough, invading 20% of a country and illegally occupying it for 30 years while causing insane damage to both people and the land requires Armenia to pay reparations! If they don't pay reparations Azerbaijan will invade 20% of Armenia and occupy it for 30 years exactly same as they did..
6- We would never ever use isil fighters simply because half of them are French citizens and we do not trust Frenchmen!! You westerners are very quick to accuse Turkey for supporting, using isil etc while we are the only foreign force which fought against them with it's own forces not proxies and there are literally tens of thousands westerners in isil but ofc they are just brainwashed innocent people, right? RIGHT??..
7- Turkey becoming an empire only because wicked kings, princes and dictators hate Turkey is just so moronic claim, let me ask you a simple question which Muslim countries are pro-Turkish? Pakistan, Malaysia, Indonesia, Algeria, Tunisia, Libyan people elected UN recognized GNA, Qatar, Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan etc, what those countries share with each others?? Pretty much all of them are Republics and have some kind of democracy! While only kingdom which is pro-Turkish is Qatar simply because all other arabic kings, princes, dictators etc see Turkey as a threat because their own people rather Turkish rule than theirs!! This doesn't make Turkey an enemy, doesn't make Turkey trying to establish an empire rather it only makes them incapable leaders. While the west supports those kings, princes, dictators etc despite all of their atrocities simply because they very well know any people elected government would be pro-Turkish further increasing Turkish influence in the region.
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If somebody wants to talk about false narratives they should first stop this "Central Asia" generalization themselves! Tajikistan is an ethnically Iranian country and has nothing to do with Turkic central Asian countries, in fact relations are quite bad and there were border conflicts have been happening including an incident only few months ago. This bad relations with neighbours, destabilized country conditions and having a long border with Afghanistan put Tajikistan as an ideal place for terrorist activities. As a Turkish person i already knew there was some isis activity in Tajikistan before this attack so attackers being from there didn't surprise me at all especially condering the country's poor conditions.
About terrorists not looking like jihadists since their defeat in most of middle east isis terrorists went undercover so to speak. They are still hiring people and engaging in some illegal activities but they are heavily hunted in everywhere. Also we are talking about really poor people here, in Tajikistan minimum wage is 50 dollars, if you offer these people 2,000 dollar a month you can make them do almost anything and slowly brainwash them. Anybody in their right mind wouldn't join isis anyway so it is not that hard to manipulate inviduals willing to join isis for payment..
About why they would do this and if it is a false flag attack, i'm not sure. Usually there would be a clear reason behind such attacks, for example they targeted Turkish tourism spesifically back in the day and caused at least 10 billion dollars damage to Turkish economy. Here i can't see any reason honestly, perhaps they are trying to destabilize Russian fedaration and trying to infiltrate into Russia's large Muslim minority but it is far fetched. When false flag claimed everybody somehow thinks it has to be Ukraine but it isn't at all! They can use a false flag attack like this to blame Russia's Muslim population and use it to suppress them freely, in fact this Muslim minority is also the most anti-war and even pro-independence population in Russia. So they have reasons to suppress them and it wouldn't be first time Russia using similar tactics. It was again their propaganda machine declaring FSA (Ordinary Syrians who only tried to topple Assad) as terrorists and sadly it worked. Even western countries ditched supporting FSA while mostly Turkey still supporting them today..
So it could be a false flag as well, i guess we will learn it in few weeks. If it slowly disappears from Russian media then a real attack while if it shifts towards Ukraine or Muslim minority heavily then it was a false flag.
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
--Noam Chomsky
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4- Turkey attacks Kurds nonsense, this brings us to this total lie that western media fabricated to justify US actions in the region!! But in reality Turkey doesn't attack Kurds what so ever, Turkey attacks PKK which is a terrorist organization recognized by many western countries including US and EU because they killed more than 10,000 civilians in last 40 years and also doing many illegal activities from illegal taxing and drug trafficking to child abductions and forcefully recruiting them:
https://www.globalresearch.ca/kurdish-pkk-and-ypgs-hidden-notorious-crimes-kidnapping-murder-and-narcotics-trafficking/5610540
http://www.kurdistan24.net/en/news/3f2da59d-2f9d-434c-9023-aa93a965dbfd/Human-Rights-Watch--PKK-armed-wings-recruit-child-soldiers-in-Iraq
http://www.rudaw.net/english/kurdistan/100520181
In case you didn't notice last two of those sources are from Kurdistan regional government in Iraq so even they are considering PKK as a terrorist organization due Kurdish people are suffering because of those terrorists same as Turkish people, in fact in 2017 PKK even announced that they aren't part of KRG rather selfgoverning in a selfgoverning region which reduced KRG's legitimacy greatly!! That's why KRG parties such as KDP and PUK are cooperating with Turkey against PKK and there are many agreements between KRG and Turkey to establish safe zones in KRG by Turkish military bases and train their peshmarga forces, also Turkey invested billions of dolars into KRG mainy in construction sector including pipelines so KRG could sell their oil in the international market and get necessary amount of money for keeping their government going. Here is a Kurdish source again about how much they earn by selling oil trough Turkish and Iraqi lands:
http://www.kurdistan24.net/en/economy/df39b0f2-d3d3-4353-b757-bfe04b2ba36a
As you can see from Iraq Kurds are earning almost half of what they earn from Turkish pipelines so if we ever wanted to attack Kurds all we had to do was closing border gates but we never did such a thing rather always helped Kurds against Iraqi oppression including saddam era when Turkey protected 1.5 million Iraqi Kurds as refugees during saddam was attacking them and even threaten saddam with war if such attacks happens near Turkish border!! While what was US doing??? They pointlessly kept blaming Iran for chemical attacks of saddam and did absolutely nothing to protect Kurdish people!!! Then why the heck Turkey attacks YPG, right? Perhaps because YPG has thousands of PKK terrorists in their ranks??? YPG was formed as a pure Syrian Kurdish group but after Syrian civil war PKK started to fight in Syria, here is a western source which openly accepts there are PKK terrorists in Syria and asks the huge question could they support PKK terrorists against isis terrorists:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28925179
BBC says they could support PKK terrorists due during that time there was peace talks ongoing between Turkey and PKK but because PKK kept demanding more and more without offering a damn thing in return such as a general amnesty for every PKK terrorists, ofc Turkey demanded surrendering their weapons for that but they refused and even threatened Turkey by forcefully 'liberating' their terrorists so in late 2015 peace talks failed and Turkey started to attack PKK terrorists again!! While in Syria PKK merged with YPG under US protection and after a simple name change (SDF) western media started to deny the connection between YPG and PKK completely, at least vast majority of them due here is a western source which accepts 44% of YPG casualties are actually Turkish Kurds so PKK terrorists and it includes some statements of PKK terrorists such as:
In an interview with the Wall Street Journal, Kurdish fighter Zind Ruken expanded on the PKK-YPG relationship. “Sometimes I’m a PKK, sometimes I’m a PJAK [the PKK-allied affiliate, active in Iran], sometimes I’m a YPG. It doesn’t really matter. They are all members of the PKK.”
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/menasource/the-ypg-pkk-connection
So US's entire Middle east policy is built on tons of lies same as their ''Iraq has chemical weapons'' lie which not only destroyed a country and killed hundreds of thousands people in a war also prepared a perfect environment for terrorists to use and eventually isis raised from Iraq which killed hundreds of thousands more innocent people!! If we let US to continue having a free hand only God knows what kind of disasters will happen and how many more will die so not just Turkey all European countries are shifting towards Russians due Europe also suffers because of those wars of US!! Russians aren't really a reliable power neither but at least they have much better policies than extremely wicked US policies for sure!! Turkey nor Europe will never become Russian allies due extreme political and cultural differences but at this rate you can bet soon NATO will collapse and we will stay neutral for decades...
Here is a source about how much anti-US Germans became and how they want to cooperate more with Russia and even China than US!! Also it is actually much worse for French people and that's why pro-US Macron has so low approval rates, if US policies won't change after their new president NATO won't survive another decade for sure and US won't have any allies left around Europe expect Israel ofc or more accurately Israel will keep controlling US policies...
https://www.pewglobal.org/2019/03/04/americans-and-germans-disagree-on-the-state-of-bilateral-relations-but-largely-align-on-key-international-issues/
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The idea wasn't bad and economic interdependence really works but the implementation was just terrible, even downright criminal! Germany or the west in general never ever supported Russian people, never tried to improve their living conditions which was quite bad after the collapse of Soviet union. Rather they tried to build economic interdependence by mainly working with Russian government and in the sectors they would benefit the most like energy sector. So basicly there wasn't enough German sausage that Russians can not live without and the regime could do whatever they wanted without facing much resistance from people. When Putin claims the west hates Russians and they want to see them suffer, most Russian people really believe him after all they didn't see any support from westerners in their entire lives. This half ass implementation was the real reason how Putin could invade Ukraine and he can still keep his oligarchs happy with his stockpiled gold from the years of ''good relations'' with the west while brainwashing ordinary people..
Im from Turkey and the west follows a similar strategy here too, trying to control Turkey with economic pressure and sanctions. But it just backfires as erdogan could get more votes from poor population who see the west as two faced and this is one of main reason how he could be reelected even in 2023! If you ask me i would say they are really two faced, US alone invested trillions of dollars into far east, South Korea, Japan and even China. But when it comes to a 70 years long NATO ally the capital has always been disappearing into thin air and there has been very little US investments into Turkey. Fortunately not all NATO allies are hypocritical and only pretending to be allies so Turkey received great investments from UK, Italy and Spain. Even South Korean and Japan investments are significantly larger than US, imagine about that.
Don't get me wrong nobody has to invest into another country, nobody has any obligation to support any people but could anybody in their right mind explain please what was the point of investing trillions of dollars into communist China?? If that capital was instead invested into former Soviet countries while they were becoming more democratic and open we were living in a different world today!! I don't understand it really, western politicans love to talk about democracy, liberalism, human rights etc for endless hours but then they are fucking supporting dictators, warlords, bloody princes and kings, you name it. The world is just a circus...
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
--Noam Chomsky
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As a Turkish person i can say this was spot on, some parts could be described with more details. But at least who is who was crystal clear without any political nonsense, thank you! If i explain those overlooked areas:
1- There are at least 2,000 PKK members in YPG, it isn't a claim nor possible connection. Even the commander of SDF Mazloum Kobani is a 'former' PKK member that you can see it yourself by a quick search. Ofc our 'allies' act like Mazloum got divine inspiration and is a completely different person today but Turkey will never ever accept such a nonsense. Only way PKK members can redeem themselves is surrendering to security forces.
2- The offensive isn't led by hts at all, there are reports of large military movements all over the region including Turkish controlled territories as well. And you can actually see better geared SNA troops in some of footage but it seems like they are instructed to not share footage. If i act honest, this looks like we planned this with SNA and rebels knew a lot of intel about government positions, strong points as we shared our intel with them including satellite imagery. So assadists and their allies caught off guard so badly, it doesn't seem like they could stop rebel offensive and most of mid Syria until Raqqa will fall in few days.
3- There are some YPG movements including sending troops into Aleppo, only God knows what they are trying to do. Perhaps they struck a deal with assadists to assume control of some areas. One part was badly lacking in the video that YPG made deals with literally every side in the conflict, sometimes they acted as Russian backed, sometimes US backed, made deals with government forces. They fought against government forces too but they were rare, most of the time they were in alliance with government forces. And assadists certainly would rather leaving control to YPG than SNA as they can reach a deal and gain back those territories later on, while SNA would never do that. The problem rebels won't most likely accept YPG control and engage against them, this movement is happening right now in eastern neighboorhoods of Aleppo i guess we will see how it will turn out tomorrow.
SDF is the largest force in Syria but even they have zero chance against Turkish army as previous operations showed many times. There are a lot of people blaiming us 'acting too aggressive' etc but i think we were too passive. Turkey should had occupied most of Syria in 2014 then this war was long over without causing 10 million people becoming refugees or displaced. Erdogan regime was too scared casualties might reduce their votes so they stayed passive while overall cost of Syrian civil war to Turkey reached hundreds of casualties anyway and at least 300 billion dollars. We aren't a foreign power from 10,000 miles away rather Syria is literally our backyard and everything happening there directly affects us, remember that before throwing your accusations around..
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
--Noam Chomsky
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@arched3954 First of all ''1.5 million Armenians killed'' claim is nothing but a lie! In 1910 there were 1.6 million Armenians in Ottoman then Russian empire invaded entire eastern Turkey in 1914 so Ottoman lost those majority Armenian territories and accordingly couldn't genocide them, right? Armenians who live in western Turkey according to Entente sources they were around 500,000 and never relocated as they never received russian weapons nor became a part of Armenian rebellion. 1.6 million minus 500 thousand 1.1 million remaining, minus russian occupied territories where hundreds of thousands Armenians were living, minus hundreds of thousands recolated Armenians who could reach Syria and Lebanon then migrating into Caucasus and Russian empire! We are looking at 500,000 Armenian casualties at highest, in fact this was the claim for decades but recently it kept increasing and became completely unrealistic 1.5 million claim with riciulous explanations like ''Ottoman lied about Armenian population'' etc..
You can read the manifesto of first Armenian PM Kajaznuni who was in Van province of Ottoman during WW1 and a leader of their rebellion. He openly admits they were russian proxies and began preparations for a rebellion even before Ottoman joined WW1. He could even say if they didn't rebel perhaps Ottoman wasn't going to target them, also talks about their struggle while they were migrating to Russian empire and how russians betrayed them with soviet invasion of Armenia etc. It is a must read for sure.
About if relocation was too harsh, ofc it was but it was the only option for Ottoman to end their rebellion. Because you only read biased sources you have no idea Armenian militia didn't only target Ottoman forces during their rebellion rather targeted Muslim civilians as well and according to ENTENTE sources over 300,000 Muslim civilians were killed in Anatolia between 1914 and 1923. My father's village in the area that Armenian militia operated and i've heard many stories from elders there. Armenian militia attacking and burning Turkish villages and next day Turkish militia attacking Armenian villages! It wasn't a small minority of Armenians rebelling rather it reached the scale of full blown civil war, then how exactly Ottoman was going relocate only fighting age male Armenians while there was such a conflict happening?? Ofc biased sources trying to whitewash this as ''Armenian resistance'' like it was Muslim women and children who were targeting Armenians..
The only legit point of yours that the relocation wasn't indeed planned well, there wasn't enough supplies for them so a lot of Armenians died during route to Syria and Lebanon. And there was also not enough established for them to settle in those places, just a handful flimsy camps. So some Armenians resettled into Syrian and Lebanese cities while vast majority of them decided to migrate into Russian empire. During their route through Caucasus mountains many times more of them died. Even if it wasn't directly by Ottoman's hands Ottoman was still responsible for those deaths and it is a war crime for sure but not a genocide. UN definition of a genocide states crystal clear ''a crime committed with the intent to destroy a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, in whole or in part'' and Ottoman didn't try to destroy them rather only suppress their rebellion. You can not act like Ottoman sent them into middle of Sahara desert for them to die while in reality Euphrates river runs through middle of Syria and there isn't such a large desert! This is also why UN and even many western countries do not recognize it as a genocide, it is just so ridiculous that some people could even compare it to Holocaust...
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@balkanmountains2-3131 It is such a amusing joke that you accuse me being biased then continue writing ridiculously biased ''counterarguments'' that even a blind man can see how biased they are, LMAO! For example lets look into ''Ottoman didn't slaughter or convert all Christians because it would take so much time, effort, and most importantly money'' nonsense, shall we?
Christians captured back Iberian peninsula in 1492 and ordered EVERYBODY including even Jews to convert into Christianity or face severe consequences like being crucified, beheaded etc. Did it take so ''much time, effort and money'' to convert everybody or drive tens of thousands away, huh? Spain wasn't even a strong country back then but they could still do it easily. On the other hand Ottoman was the strongest empire in Europe for two centuries at least, their armies were even outnumbering huge European coalitions and crusades but they didn't have enough resources to handle some civilians?? If you could really believe this im sorry but you are just quite dumb. Ottoman could always slaughter or forcefully convert every single Christian in their path but they chose not to do it rather acted tolerantly! And this was also why Ottoman rapidly expanded as despite this modern moronic propaganda against Ottoman some Christians especially Orthodoxs prefered rule of Ottoman than a Catolic empire as they were many times more cruel against them always. Or do i have to remind you Catholic atrocities in Balkans including crusades, huh?? It didn't even take 20 years after Ottoman's collapse to Catholics invade Balkans again and slaughter you as they wished but i bet you somehow blame it on us as well..
And this brings us to again other empires, could you share please what was happening to citizens who failed to pay their taxes in other countries and empires, huh? They were getting executed or enslaved and often their ENTIRE FAMILY was punished and it was VERY COMMON practice selling their children as slaves because otherwise all their children could become slaves!! Compared to this true barbarism Ottoman way was actually merciful, taking a single child and raising them as Ottoman soldiers and even officials not slaves at all. And it is completely a lie that they were brainwashed, some of children were as old as 18 years, how exactly do you expect Ottoman to brainwash them?? They were simply choosing the better life they had as Ottoman officials over poor village life they had! It was that simple, in fact there were even families who gave their children willingly to save their lives!! Medieval life was never easy and you are just ridiculously biased to compare it to today while ignoring conditions of the time especially in other empires.
Exactly same goes for ''brutal suppressions'' that there was no empire, country or even local lord who suppressed rebellions with roses and kisses rather it was always bloody. It is true Ottoman acted mercilessly against any rebellion and rebelled population was often punished by enslavement as well same as all empires. But at least in Ottoman slavery wasn't life long like other places, you even don't know that and still claiming Ottoman was ''so bad''??!! Here reduce your ignorance a little bit, in Ottoman slavery lasted 7 years for African slaves and 9 years for white slaves and even less if they converted to Islam. Afterwards they were free to return their homeland or granted Ottoman citizenship if they wanted to stay. So it is true Ottoman traded some slaves but it was never ever widespread as Europe simply because they have to released after few years. So it never made sense for a farm estate to buy slaves to just release them later and there were very few slaves in Anatolia!! Such a wicked empire releasing slaves in 9 years while others were considering even their entire family tree as slaves for many generations, just wow pupu on Ottoman...
Byzantine allowing Muslims to operate their own government, courts and issuing their own laws is just a dirty lie! I would agree Byzantine also had much much greater religious tolerance than other European empires and Muslims could live in peace in Byzantine but they never allowed same rights as Ottoman did for it's citizens. I think you misunderstood what i wrote and wrongly thought i was claiming Balkan nations had no right to seek independence from Ottoman empire. Every nation has every right to seek their independence if they want to but Ottoman never deserved the way you did it considering every Muslim as your enemy as soon as Ottoman weakened enough. If we considered every Christian as an enemy you weren't existing today so we deserved same treatment!! Too bad you can not still admit it and find ridiculous excuses for your becoming proxies of foreign powers and your brutality against Muslim civilians, fortunately despite our low population (In 1914 there were only 10 million Turks living) we defended our homeland not against you and also your owners, russkies, british, french etc! So i don't have any beef against you but we will never ever accept your re-writing history of ''Armenian and Greek genocides'' like you were peaceful people and we targeted you all of a sudden because in reality you were bloodthirsty mercenaries ready to kill all Muslims for capturing and ethnic cleasing your ''ancestral lands'' but we are guilty only because we could defeat you ofc..
Sadly Assyrian genocide really happened, i couldn't find any Turkish or foreign source which shows Assyrians engaged in a rebellion, target any Muslim civilians at all, in fact it is unclear if they even wanted to become independent but they were still targeted by Kurdish militia. In case if you have no idea Ottoman moved even garrisons from southeastern Anatolia into front lines with russian empire and Gallipoli while leaving the region under control of allied Kurdish militia. This was also why Kurds didn't accept Entente support after all they were literally ruling themselves already. However they used their responsibilities badly and targeted Assyrians. It is still Ottoman's fault, they should had stopped them somehow and i feel guilty about it unlike fabricated ''Armenian and Greek genocides'' who were going to displace us from Anatolia with foreign power but cry as genocide only because they were defeated, just pitiful liars they are...
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There is really insane amount of exaggeration and myths about Napoleon, for example he was defeated many times even by Ottoman. He was never a military genius, he can't even enter top 25 greatest generals list! However he was a much better general than most of his enemies but the biggest difference was he reformed French army. During that time most generals were talentless nobles etc who had their positions only according to their names. French army was also same and Napoleon wasn't liked by his superior officers during his early life. After his reforms he had like a dozen extraordinary French generals like Jourdan, Massena, Lannes, Ney, Augereau, Brune, Murat, Soult, Davoust, and Bernadotte who kept showing up in the worst moments and literally saving Napoleon's ass constantly! Talking about Napoleon's military success without his generals is just a joke and his true genius was reforming French army not some military tactics, in fact Napoleon was too careless and without his generals he was going to be defeated early on...
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I don't think PPP calculation is close to real production neither. It is simply because cost of arms is severely changing from country to country. Turkey would be a perfect example of this, they have a tiny military budget, but we look at what they are getting with that budget the picture completely changes. They have one of highest arms production in Europe, producing helicopters, aircrafts, missiles, tanks, APCs, air defense systems, even 31 ships/submarines, if i remember right, currently under construction. They are the only European country with a 5th generation aircraft project, only European country producing their own armed drones. In fact they have over 400 medium-altitude long-endurance armed drones while some European countries didn't even begin operating them yet. Fortunately Russia isn't this much cost effective neither and they are still lacking in some areas like armed drones. But the overall picture is still quite bleak, let's face it, Russia is ramping up production while Europe is chasing its own tail apart from a few good examples..
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My cocker often comes to my door and says things like 'I'm hungry, isn't it food time?', when i refuse she sometimes insists like 'It is food time, i'm sure of it.' and wouldn't go. If somebody is eating in kitchen and not giving her any she comes to my room and says 'They are eating something, come!' simply because she knows i would give her. When they scold her she again comes to my room and complains about it like 'They scolded me for nothing!', the funny part if she is really guilty she doesn't do it perhaps because she knows i would scold her too. And ofc she does same for walking out that she comes to my room and starts making 'meaningful looks' and runs to the door if i follow her. That's it she has 4 different sentences, food, walk and more food and ofc getting spoiled between them. I can tell which one instantly as she acts differently, if scolded she acts like physically hurt. If it is food she is aggressive like 'Common, i'm starving here.' If somebody else eating she is hectic like 'Hurry, they are eating up everything!', if it is walk she sits at walk way well-behaving and wouldn't enter the room as her target is front door anyway. Sure, their understanding of world is much smaller than ours but they can still communicate easily. However they don't do it to everybody, for example she only does this to me in my family perhaps because i'm the only one understanding it..
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
--Noam Chomsky
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
-Noam Chomsky
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This was mostly neutral but there were still downplaying facts and some huge mistakes, for example PKK was so wickedly attacking civilians including even Kurdish civilians the second highest casualty in this conflict after terrorists themselves isn't Turkish army, police nor civilians at all rather it is actually KURDS, civilians and especially Kurdish village guards that PKK killed thousands of them! There are hundreds of villages in southeastern Turkey alone and because the region is extremely mountainous Turkish army couldn't protect all villages constantly and Kurdish villagers were becoming easy targets for PKK raids. As a solution the government trained and armed Kurdish civilians so they could defend themselves until the army arrived. I bet some people may think ''Kurdish'' PKK and Kurdish villagers didn't fight against each others but in reality it is terrorist PKK which was seizing their assests while calling it ''tax'' and even forcefully recruiting their children! So Kurdish village guards pretty much always fought against them even if they were greatly outnumbered, while PKK simply declared them as ''traitors'' and mercilessly killed thousands of them!! Especially in 90s their violence was out of control if a Kurdish intellectual could talk against PKK would be found dead in their homes. Suicide bombing attacks in public buses, squires, markets, stations, stadiums you name it and this is the reason why literally DOZENS of countries recognize PKK as a terrorist organization as they really are terrorists!! PKK isn't committing as many terrorist attacks as before doesn't prove they magically changed like some westerners claim. Rather it is mainly because they can not smuggle both arms and themselves through Turkish-Iraqi anymore because of constant surveillance by drones. In 90s the best Turkey could do was building border outposts along the mountanious border to literally watch the border with soldiers and several dozen soldiers in a mountain peak were often becoming a target themselves..
It is true KDP asked support from even saddam but they did that out of desperation, after years of infighting they were exhausted and with great Iranian support PUK was gaining upper hand. This was also the point PKK joined PUK alliance not after KDP asked support from Iraqi government, there is a timelapse for obvious reasons! It was also completely ignored after PUK territorial gains in 1997 Turkey invaded norhern Iraq with 60,000 soldiers as PKK alliance couldn't be allowed to win the civil war and gain huge support. Instead of the truth it is told like Barzani stopped the civil war by swinging his magical wand for obvious reasons. This Turkish intervention and ending the civil war in favour of KDP was also the reason why Turkey and Barzanis have been allies since then and 15 Turkish bases were built in KDP territories started from 1998 for training Peshmerga forces and providing security.
It is also a completely a false Turkey blocked KRG's access to the world, in fact both Barzani and Talabani also many Iraqi Kurds have TURKISH diplomatic passports so they can travel through Turkey freely and ask for support from other nations. What more Turkey supposed to do than giving people diplomatic passports who aren't even Turkish citizens, huh?? Then they also completely ignored vast majority of KRG's trade travel through Turkey including 95% of their oil exports and this was the only reason KRG could survive so long. Then comes ''Turkey using PKK as an excuse to attack YPG'' nonsense, while in reality there are around TWO THOUSAND PKK terrorists in YPG's ranks, in fact even the commander of YPG is a ''former'' PKK terrorists called Mazloum Abdi! This isn't a secret or anything, just search his name you would see he is a known PKK terrorist, but no worries according to our ''trustworthy'' allies he retired being a terrorist and he is a democratic hero now!! Turkey will never ever accept this moronity, while the only way PKK terrorists can be declared innocent they will surrender and apologize to the people that they killed thousands of them. Until it happens Turkey will continue targeting them in every opportunity or YPG can cut it's ties with PKK, in fact Turkey actually asked it from US many times before starting operations against them which was ofc forgotten again! However with even it's commander being a PKK terrorist i guess it is extremely unlikely they can cut ties or could be even called seperate organizations...
PS: There aren't 30-40 million Kurdish people living Kurdistan, for example over 12 million Kurdish people out of Turkey's around 18 million Kurdish minority live in WESTERN Turkey not in Kurdistan. While the biggest Kurdish city in the world isn't Erbil, Sanadaj or Diyarbakır rather ISTANBUL with 3 million Kurdish population! They could at least research about populations properly but nope..
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This was mostly neutral but there were still downplaying facts and some huge mistakes, for example PKK was so wickedly attacking civilians including even Kurdish civilians the second highest casualty in this conflict after terrorists themselves isn't Turkish army, police nor civilians at all rather it is actually KURDS, civilians and especially Kurdish village guards that PKK killed thousands of them! There are hundreds of villages in southeastern Turkey alone and because the region is extremely mountainous Turkish army couldn't protect all villages constantly and Kurdish villagers were becoming easy targets for PKK raids. As a solution the government trained and armed Kurdish civilians so they could defend themselves until the army arrived. I bet some people may think ''Kurdish'' PKK and Kurdish villagers didn't fight against each others but in reality it is terrorist PKK which was seizing their assests while calling it ''tax'' and even forcefully recruiting their children! So Kurdish village guards pretty much always fought against them even if they were greatly outnumbered, while PKK simply declared them as ''traitors'' and mercilessly killed thousands of them!! Especially in 90s their violence was out of control if a Kurdish intellectual could talk against PKK would be found dead in their homes. Suicide bombing attacks in public buses, squires, markets, stations, stadiums you name it and this is the reason why literally DOZENS of countries recognize PKK as a terrorist organization as they really are terrorists!! PKK isn't committing as many terrorist attacks as before doesn't prove they magically changed like some westerners claim. Rather it is mainly because they can not smuggle both arms and themselves through Turkish-Iraqi anymore because of constant surveillance by drones. In 90s the best Turkey could do was building border outposts along the mountanious border to literally watch the border with soldiers and several dozen soldiers in a mountain peak were often becoming a target themselves..
It is true KDP asked support from even saddam but they did that out of desperation, after years of infighting they were exhausted and with great Iranian support PUK was gaining upper hand. This was also the point PKK joined PUK alliance not after KDP asked support from Iraqi government, there is a timelapse for obvious reasons! It was also completely ignored after PUK territorial gains in 1997 Turkey invaded norhern Iraq with 60,000 soldiers as PKK alliance couldn't be allowed to win the civil war and gain huge support. Instead of the truth it is told like Barzani stopped the civil war by swinging his magical wand for obvious reasons. This Turkish intervention and ending the civil war in favour of KDP was also the reason why Turkey and Barzanis have been allies since then and 15 Turkish bases were built in KDP territories started from 1998 for training Peshmerga forces and providing security.
It is also a completely a false Turkey blocked KRG's access to the world, in fact both Barzani and Talabani also many Iraqi Kurds have TURKISH diplomatic passports so they can travel through Turkey freely and ask for support from other nations. What more Turkey supposed to do than giving people diplomatic passports who aren't even Turkish citizens, huh?? Then they also completely ignored vast majority of KRG's trade travel through Turkey including 95% of their oil exports and this was the only reason KRG could survive so long. Then comes ''Turkey using PKK as an excuse to attack YPG'' nonsense, while in reality there are around TWO THOUSAND PKK terrorists in YPG's ranks, in fact even the commander of YPG is a ''former'' PKK terrorists called Mazloum Abdi! This isn't a secret or anything, just search his name you would see he is a known PKK terrorist, but no worries according to our ''trustworthy'' allies he retired being a terrorist and he is a democratic hero now!! Turkey will never ever accept this moronity, while the only way PKK terrorists can be declared innocent they will surrender and apologize to the people that they killed thousands of them. Until it happens Turkey will continue targeting them in every opportunity or YPG can cut it's ties with PKK, in fact Turkey actually asked it from US many times before starting operations against them which was ofc forgotten again! However with even it's commander being a PKK terrorist i guess it is extremely unlikely they can cut ties or could be even called seperate organizations...
PS: There aren't 30-40 million Kurdish people living Kurdistan, for example over 12 million Kurdish people out of Turkey's around 18 million Kurdish minority live in WESTERN Turkey not in Kurdistan. While the biggest Kurdish city in the world isn't Erbil, Sanadaj or Diyarbakır rather ISTANBUL with 3 million Kurdish population! They could at least research about populations properly but nope! By the way even if im a Turkish person im fully supporting a Kurdish state they suffered a lot especially in Iraq and we would rather having a border with a Kurdish state than Iraqis or Syrians. But a KURDISH state not a terrorist state, we will never ever support such a country and even fight against it's forces as long as those PKK terrorists are in charge..
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@jeanmoulin1443 So you refuse you said Turkish casualties were ''self-defense'' or ''a few Armenians killed a few Turks'', huh? Did you go up there and edit your messages as well??..
Then you claim Ottoman committed a genocide by deliberate killing, death marches, forceful assimilation etc and literally two sentences later claim Spanish empire didn't commit a genocide rather only atrocities even if they deliberately killed or forcefully assimilated millions of people!! Then literally two sentences later you claim Greece didn't commit a genocide because they never had the intention of exterminating the Turkish ethnic group while care to explain what intention ordering their army to kill Turkish civilians and burn down towns and villages had???!!!
Then you claim you read that article but couldn't find 300,000 Turkish casualties part, here let me help you READ then:
''He also considered that “without exaggeration,” the number of Turks killed by the Greek forces and their Armenian volunteers since May 1919 was in excess of 150,000, “without counting the deported persons, estimated to be 300,000.” ''
You found it finally?? Or your rose-coloured glasses are still blocking your view??? And there were many more quotes in that article from WESTERN officials that Greeks and Armenians systematically targeted Turkish civilians to exterminate them:
''plunder, assassinations, “thousands” of arbitrary arrests and inhuman conditions of detention, concluding there was a Greek “policy of extermi- nation” toward “the Turkish element”.''
''It appears that the Greek high command did not hesitate to use, if needed, Armenian nationalists for the destruction and ethnic cleansing''
''In Yalova peninsula, during the year 1921, Armenians participated in the Greek “systematic plan of destruction of Turkish villages and extinction of the Moslem population''
Obviously you didn't read the article rather because i refused to share a quote that you somehow assumed it wasn't saying HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS Turkish people got killed by Greeks and Armenians but it does indeed and says even more!! Will you still keep refusing that there weren't hundreds of thousands Turkish civilian deaths?? Or will you wickedly keep calling CIVILIAN deaths ''self-defense''???
Perhaps you will continue downplaying Turkish casualties while exaggerating Greek and Armenian casualties in order to claim those two were genocides while Turkish one wasn't but in reality genocide definition says absolutely nothing about numbers and even adds:
''any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or IN PART, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such''
So there was a Turkish genocide without any question at all, in fact GREEK ARMY even officially ordered it's soldiers to kill civilians!! But ofc you completely ignored that order for obvious reasons!!! You had false information, numbers, accusations, claims from the begining the argument from ''3,000,000 Armenian population'' to ''self defense'' and even if you didn't share any source you still claim Armenian population was between 1.7 million to 2.4 million but could you please share a single neutral source which shows 2.4 million Armenians in Ottoman??? You claim my sources are biased while random person written wikipedia is neutral but in reality ALL MY SOURCES are WESTERN officials, WESTERN historians, ARMENIAN officials, GREEK authors i didn't share a single source from Turkish side!! But ofc they are still biased while BSpedia is the only neutral place on the entire web!!! You aren't a humanist person, you aren't a reasonable person rather you are only a mere biased joke or worse a mere racist person because otherwise there was no way you could ignore so many historical evidence and even lie as you read that article...
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@SoundsSilver It looks like you have terrible knowledge about the subjects due it was 100% French fault that Germany could defeat France so easily or even manage to defeat France at all!! In fact the original German plan was pushing into France as much as it was possible not to invade France at all as they were expecting they would be stopped at some point same as WW1 but after French army failed to act against only 2 generals Guderian and Rommel their only 3 armored divisions pushed into France in a rapid pace!! It was so bad at one point there were only 3 German divisions betwen 80 Allied divisions and it was why German high command ordered both those generals to halt and wait for infantry and even threatened them with court-martial if they refuse!! As German high command feared an allied counterattack was going to penetrate them easily and slaughter them all!! Such a counterattack happened indeed and French army attacked with 50 divisions to Guderian's only two divisions but it was so weak Guderian managed to stop them in river crossings until rest of the army arrived several days later, while Rommel pushed EXACTLY 30 allied divisions northwards with his a single divison until they were encirled in Dunkirk area and kept them there easily as there wasn't any counterattack attempt from the north even if they alone had many times more than enough soldiers to defeat those 3 German divisions before rest of German army arrived!!! Even after this point France could still stop German advance but nope, they surrendered after only loosing 200,000 soldiers during the entire conflict and according to you ''they saved millions of lives'' but in reality German invasion of Poland became a WOLRD WAR after Germany managed to invade France as well and became a total rogue state in Europe as there was no force left which could stop them from capturing literally entire Europe so they invaded countries one after another and killed tens of millions of people!!! So nope, the cowardness of them didn't save a single soul rather gifted Europe to Germany in a golden plate...
To be fair Brits also had a major fault that they had only 300,000 soldiers in France while their around 2 million soldiers were still on their island even if the entire world knew the attack was going to come over Belgium same as WW1!! But who knows perhaps Brits thought Germans would invent teleportation device and teleport armies into their island while ignoring their massive navy which was making any invasion impossible..
About Turkey not entire Turkey is mountainous, in fact only eastern Turkey is extremely mountainous while western and central Turkey is mostly plain lands. Also all those countries Turkey fought were entente countries and they had numerical superiority in every way from soldier numbers to guns, ships, trucks, planes just you name it including population as there were only 13 million Turks in 1914 while Russia alone had 166 million population and France and UK were controlling hundreds of millions of people!!! Which was the main reason why entente powers thought they could occupy Turkey and divide it as they wished as there were only 10 million Turks left in 1919 because of WW1 and Spanish flu, in fact Greece alone had twice more soldiers than Turkish side with 200,000 soldiers while Turkey had only 105,000 soldiers!!! But ofc they miserably miscalculated people's will to defend their country which is completely absent in France for sure...
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
--Noam Chomsky
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This was mostly correct but there were some huge mistakes and clear bias through it, for example in Ottoman religious minorities could operate their own religious institutions, their own government institutions, their own schools, their own courts, they could even issue their own laws! Care to share which European empire gave such rights to any religious minority? But even then they were still ''persecuted'', i really wonder how exactly. Jizya tax was very very small price for having such rights and it wasn't even a high tax, for example wealthier regions like Greece never had any problems paying Jizya tax for over 500 years while only really poor regions like Serbia struggled to pay it so blood tax was collected instead. And those children perhaps were taken forcefully but they weren't becoming slave soldiers at all. They were receiving 4 years long education and depending on their success they were receiving further education and becoming Ottoman officials or were enlisted into Janissary corps which was receiving one of highest salaries among all Ottoman standing army but they were still ''slaves'' somehow..
Also claiming Muhammad Ali Pasha was a bashi-bazouk is a massive mistake, i really wonder where he could learn such a thing! Ali Pasha was an Albanian who received at least 10 years of education to become a ''general'' (Pasha is actually a Turkish rank close to general) to lead armies and govern provinces. But he indeed raised a small army of Albanians as bashi-bazouks. There was never an official Ottoman unit as bashi-bazouks but especially during war times Pashas were often raising irregular armies as bashi-bazouks so it just means irregular soldiers.
As one of correct information, the infighting between Arabic tribes had been quite common as mostly Arabs were ruling themselves not Ottoman which allowed a lot of powerplay between tribes. In late 18th century first Saudi rebellion happened along with their radical ideology, same as their late atrocities they were quite brutal burning down towns and slaughtering ''non-Muslims'' as they wished. Ottoman ordered Ali Pasha to raise a large army in Egypt and end their rebellion. Ali Pasha did so without much resistance from Saudis but he had a large intact army now while Ottoman was quite weak so he decided his payment wasn't enough and asked for more by force. He never ever became ruler of Egypt, this is another huge mistake ''history channels'' are often making. Muhammad Ali Pasha remained as OTTOMAN GOVERNER of Egypt even after defeating Ottoman, only became governer of Syria etc as well. Ottoman attacked him back only few years later but didn't remove him from his position entirely only revoked his governship from other regions while he and his dynasty remained as governers of Egypt. Even in 1914 Egypt was still officially a part of Ottoman until WW1 began then British finally ended it by using the war as an excuse.
As last even this map isn't enough to explain struggle in the region as more and more foreign powers kept always involving, for example Russian empire's invasion of Caucasus changed power balance entirely and Armenians became a russian proxy since then. It was somehow claimed that Armenian population disappeared because of genocide but it is completely false as in 1914 Russian empire invaded eastern Turkey so Ottoman wasn't even controlling Armenian majority cities in 1915 rather they were under control of RUSSIAN EMPIRE! After Ottoman defeats against russian empire Armenians wrongly believed Ottoman was about to collapse and rebelled as a russian proxy in late 1914. But ofc they were wrong and Ottoman displaced them into Syria and Lebanon to suppress their rebellion then most of them decided to migrate into Russian empire over Caucasus mountains. The whole point of this displacement was moving Armenians away from front lines with russian empire which was supplying them arms but ofc even Armenian rebellion is somewhat forgotten thanks to re-writing history efforts and ''historians'' like this guy..
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People always see what they want to see, not the truth! Vast majority don't give a shit about any awards, for example how many people are watching World cup final? Then how many people are watching world cup ceremony afterwards?? It is many many times lower if you have no idea, people love drama, challenge not some sweaty dudes having oral sex with a cup. So people get bored and create their own drama on the chat, it is just that simple. And im saying this as a Turkish person not a white westerner, although i could be considered as a lot of things, white, brown, western, eastern depending on who the fuck im compared..
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
--Noam Chomsky
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
-Noam Chomsky
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
Noam Chomsky
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@soumyadiptamajumder8795 I really don't know how you could claim Millet system didn't exist before 18th century which is just false. Same rights Millet system was giving to minorities were always given to minorities under Jizya benefits through entire history of Ottoman. In 19th century they made it de jure system during Tanzimat reforms not because it had to be rather because Ottoman was planning to change those rights at first place. During same Tanzimat reforms, Jizya tax changed to "Bedel-i askeriye" (military service by payment) in 1856 that Christian minorities also had to do their military service same as Muslims had been for many centuries or pay a large sum.
Ofc Christian minorities hated it, for centuries they had been living without ever getting levied, without any military service at all and vast majority of them weren't affected by a single war of Ottoman, not a single one! Why would they join Ottoman army now even if ALL minorities in the world had to join militaries, right? I've seen some Greeks claiming "Ottoman rule was terrible" but when i asked them how exactly as they could operate their own churches, schools, courts and didn't even have to join military. Their answer was "We couldn't build new churches".
The entire Europe was burning in never ending wars especially religious wars which literally killed tens of millions apart from forcefully levied millions. While the biggest problem of poor Greeks they could not build new churches!! It is nothing but just an amusing joke that Ottoman Christians were suffering. Especially while no other empire was giving minorities such rights, there were also dozens of churches built under Ottoman rule so either Sultans were giving permission for their construction or it wasn't a law strictly enforced so even that excuse isn't really legit. Lets also not forget it was mostly Ottoman Christians especially Greeks who were trading with Europe for many centuries. Especially after Ottoman began giving privileges to the west it was again Ottoman Christians receiving western investments and schools, factories, businesses they were all built in areas with large Christian population. Such as in 20th century Smyrna was the biggest city in Ottoman by far with hundreds of factories and businesses (That's why it was burned down instead of leaving it to Turkey). But nope, they were "suffering" so badly they had to cooperate with bloody Russians, honestly that's just a cheap excuse..
Büyük Kaçgun most severely affected Turkish population who were always under military recruitment pressure for centuries as Sipahis were main force of Ottoman. Only following conquest of Arabic lands Janissary size increased in time while Muslims became a large part of Ottoman army but this also caused corruption in Janissary corps, they began revolting and demanding more and more. This was one of main reasons why Ottoman economy was so poor as there were over a hundred of thousand non-combatant Janissaries receiving salary. Ottoman even tried to reduce peace time salary severely while increasing war time salary which was given directly during campaigns. But it backfired as Janissaries began revolting there was too long peace period now, literally revolting as there was peace..
Ottoman never lacked technologies rather lacked how they were implemented. During early Ottoman history Ottoman had far better administrative, economic and military systems than entire Europe. That was how even if Ottoman didn't invent most of gun technologies they could implement them far before European empires and effectively use them in the field. Ottoman army was also far more disciplined and organized than any European army. They had decimal rank system as 10, 100, 1000 and 10000 units, the smallest unit was 10 men and commanded by an officer. This is very close to modern ranks, in fact Turkish army still uses slightly altered version today. So while European armies had a few nobles as their commanders Ottoman armies had literally several thousand officers. This was one of main reasons why Ottoman army didn't loose a single pitched battle for several centuries expect against Timur alone as they also had decimal rank system. (All Turkic people used this rank system and it was first used in 209 BC by Maotun or Mete Han in Turkish) But as corruption took root in Ottoman all those systems began degenerating, it is true Ottoman had Napoleonic etc weapons but they never could adopt Napoleonic tactics as Janissaries kept revolting against it. Janissary corps could be finally abolished in 1826 which was way too late already. Economy in ruins, enemies in every corner, still severe corruption lingering in the government they tried to modernize but it could never work out.
I completely agree about Vienna and that was why Sultan Suleiman never had any intention to capture it. Even in second campaign in 1532 they wouldn't capture it, it was just pointless. There was no way at all they could hold Vienna in middle of enemy territory far away from Constantinople. Ottoman was actually using Belgrade as their main base of operations in Europe but Ottoman standing army never stayed there and always returned Constantinople. It wasn't because threats in the east rather because of Ottoman arrogance, romanticism or antics i'm not sure how to put it. That Sublime porte wasn't just a propaganda they really believed in it, for example "Devlet-i Aliyye-i Osmaniye" means Grand State Ottoman if you directly translate it not Ottoman empire. They really believed they had some kind of higher authority to rule and they had to rule from Constantinople, the capital of the world. So they never changed standing army location even if it would be way more beneficial, in fact enemies often exploited this as they knew it would take several months until Ottoman army could reach there. To be accurate they didn't believe they were "God's chosen" like some European monarchs rather they believed the state was God's chosen and even Sultans were living for the state's sake. It was also "Dîvân-ı Hümâyun" which ruled Ottoman not Sultans at all, they were only head of the Divan. So Sultanate of women era etc could happen as wives or mothers of Sultans simply had more influence in the Divan than Sultans themselves. Ottoman really had quite different political structure than European empires.
If Ottoman could capture Vienna i really doubt Suleiman would give it to Janos Zapolya. In Turkish records he isn't mentioned with much love and they claim it was Hungarian nobles who chose him not Ottoman. He could give it to a Protestant noble to fan the flames, yeah there was going to another crusade almost for sure but this time against a protestant city. As far as i know Vienna had pretty large Protestant population back then so it could turn into another religious war all together. There is also England side, if Ottoman adopted a policy like "defender of Protestants" England could see Ottoman as an ally instead of Russia historically which would have long lasting consequences. But ofc majority of Europeans were only seeing Ottoman as invading heathens so it is really unlikely but if Martin Luther etc supported Ottoman alliance this could change. Still more likely he would negotiate with the Church instead and gang up against Ottoman like you said lol. However i'm not sure Protestants would surrender Vienna back easily even if there was an agreement with the Church.
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Turkish minority in Bulgaria isn't inflated at all as even Bulgaria itself declared Turkish minority as 588,318 in 2011 so it was actually way lower than the real numbers!! Also i seriously wonder which non-Christian nation hates Turks in Balkans as Bosnians, Albanians and Kosovo Albanians have very good relations with Turkey??..
And it is correct Turkey doesn't have enough power to spread it's influence worldwide like US or China etc but Turkey has way more than enough power to influence small Balkan countries even then there isn't a strong Turkish influence in Balkans not because Turkey couldn't spread it's influence rather because Turkey didn't!! As despite common nonsense Turkey remained as a very isolationist country for almost 100 years and didn't involve into regional conflicts or problems as much as possible and only acted if it was absolute necessary like Cyprus operation, cross border operations in Iraq, started in 1997 in order to end Kurdish civil war which continued for 3 years and because Turkey ended it in favour of KDP (The biggest Kurdish party in KRG) Turkey and KDP have very good relations since then!! Or Syrian war which caused over 8 million refugees that 4 million of them are in Turkey and started 6 years before a single Turkish soldier entered Syria but according to some ''geniuses'' even then Turkey started it somehow. That same goes for even NATO operations in Bosnia, in fact there was a serious opposition who refused joining the coalition until Serbs started to attack Bosnian civilians...
Also it was just ridiculous you mentioning ''no one speaks Turkish'' due Ottoman never ever forced Turkish language, culture nor Islam on any nation at all which is how those Balkan nations could preserve their own languages, religions and cultures even after centuries long Ottoman rule while you can't find a single place on Earth which didn't become majority Christian after 400 years long european rule, simply because european empires always lacked religious toleration badly which didn't change much even in the twentieth century as we all know what happened during WW2!! So everything went well for Ottoman until 19th century as people could live peacefully under religious Millet system which allowed religious minorities even issuing their own laws, in fact both ''Ottoman tolerance'' and ''The religion of peace'' references come from this era but French revolution changed everything due for Ottoman minorities having religious identities wasn't enough anymore rather they also wanted national identities while Ottoman wasn't officially accepting even Turkish nation rather Turks were considered as a part of Muslim millet!! Ottoman tried to turn Millet system into a national system instead of religious but there wasn't even a common language between those people therefore Ottoman just collapsed rapidly while there wasn't a single homogenous place in Ottoman as people were allowed to live where they wished so there were millions of Muslims in Balkans, Crimea, Circassia and millions of Christians in Anatolia that they all faced countless atrocities and millions got killed or deported but even if Crimean, Balkan and Circassian genocides happened decades before so ''humanist'' and ''liberal'' westerners talk about only Christians for obvious reasons ofc...
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
--Noam Chomsky
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This was quite detailed covering Russian, Greek and Austrian perspective but sadly it wasn't neutral at all! Turkish/Crimean Tatar perspective was completely missing, for example it talked about new settlements in Crimea but completely forgot about what happened to Crimean Tatars under Russian rule! If i summarize shortly the lost of Crimean peninsula wasn't seen as same as loosing Balkan provinces or anywhere else, first time in Ottoman history a Turkish* homeland was lost and it had long lasting consequences. First of all Russians didn't treat Crimean Tatars fairly and targeted thousands of them in following decades, over a million of them were forcefully displaced into Ottoman that it is estimated 6 million Turks have Crimean Tatar heritage today. And naturally this great migration changed Ottoman politics deeply as they feared they could be displaced from other regions as well and this is the true beginning of ethnic violence had been happening in following century. Russian empire captured Circassia only few years later and same senario happened in there. After Balkans were lost, hundreds of thousands Muslims were targeted and displaced and Russian empire could push into Caucasus. Then during WW1 same Russian empire tried to invade even Anatolia with same goals but ofc all these atrocities are completely ignored to fabricate a genocide story for a Russian proxy who rebelled against Ottoman..
Secondly after this defeat Ottoman began trying to modernize it's army and shortly after established Nizam-i Djedid army which adopted Napoleonic tactics. However only a decade later it had to be abolished because of a Janissary revolt. During that time Janissaries were extremely corrupt as much as they could be, there were hundreds of thousands members that most of them weren't even soldiers rather civilians who bribed their way into the corps for receiving salaries. So that European ''500,000'' army size claim is just laughable, Turkish sources put it less than 200,000 which was still significantly larger than Russian army but the state Janissary corps was in it isn't surprising they lost miserably. Janissary corps could be finally abolished in 1826 but it was too late already. After many Balkan nations rebelled against Ottoman and accordingly their tax income plummeted the empire went downhill as Turkish core of the empire was a small minority and not enough to cover any expenses at all. For example even in 1914 after loosing Balkans and most of north Africa etc, Ottoman had 40 million population, 25 million Arabs, 4 million Christians and only around 10 million ''Turks'' which even included Kurdish, Zaza etc minorities and other ethnicities who adopted Islam, meanwhile Russian empire had 164 million population in 1914...
*Turkic/Turkish difference only exists in English, in Turkish all Turkic people are simply called Turks. For example Crimean Tatars are called Crimean Turks not Tatars so Crimea was seen as a Turkish homeland by Ottoman.
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This was mostly neutral but there were still downplaying facts and some huge mistakes, for example PKK was so wickedly attacking civilians including even Kurdish civilians the second highest casualty in this conflict after terrorists themselves isn't Turkish army, police nor civilians at all rather it is actually KURDS, civilians and especially Kurdish village guards that PKK killed thousands of them! There are hundreds of villages in southeastern Turkey alone and because the region is extremely mountainous Turkish army couldn't protect all villages constantly and Kurdish villagers were becoming easy targets for PKK raids. As a solution the government trained and armed Kurdish civilians so they could defend themselves until the army arrived. I bet some people may think ''Kurdish'' PKK and Kurdish villagers didn't fight against each others but in reality it is terrorist PKK which was seizing their assests while calling it ''tax'' and even forcefully recruiting their children! So Kurdish village guards pretty much always fought against them even if they were greatly outnumbered, while PKK simply declared them as ''traitors'' and mercilessly killed thousands of them!! Especially in 90s their violence was out of control if a Kurdish intellectual could talk against PKK would be found dead in their homes. Suicide bombing attacks in public buses, squires, markets, stations, stadiums you name it and this is the reason why literally DOZENS of countries recognize PKK as a terrorist organization as they really are terrorists!! PKK isn't committing as many terrorist attacks as before doesn't prove they magically changed like some westerners claim. Rather it is mainly because they can not smuggle both arms and themselves through Turkish-Iraqi anymore because of constant surveillance by drones. In 90s the best Turkey could do was building border outposts along the mountanious border to literally watch the border with soldiers and several dozen soldiers in a mountain peak were often becoming a target themselves..
It is true KDP asked support from even saddam but they did that out of desperation, after years of infighting they were exhausted and with great Iranian support PUK was gaining upper hand. This was also the point PKK joined PUK alliance not after KDP asked support from Iraqi government, there is a timelapse for obvious reasons! It was also completely ignored after PUK territorial gains in 1997 Turkey invaded norhern Iraq with 60,000 soldiers as PKK alliance couldn't be allowed to win the civil war and gain huge support. Instead of the truth it is told like Barzani stopped the civil war by swinging his magical wand for obvious reasons. This Turkish intervention and ending the civil war in favour of KDP was also the reason why Turkey and Barzanis have been allies since then and 15 Turkish bases were built in KDP territories started from 1998 for training Peshmerga forces and providing security.
It is also a completely a false Turkey blocked KRG's access to the world, in fact both Barzani and Talabani also many Iraqi Kurds have TURKISH diplomatic passports so they can travel through Turkey freely and ask for support from other nations. What more Turkey supposed to do than giving people diplomatic passports who aren't even Turkish citizens, huh?? Then they also completely ignored vast majority of KRG's trade travel through Turkey including 95% of their oil exports and this was the only reason KRG could survive so long. Then comes ''Turkey using PKK as an excuse to attack YPG'' nonsense, while in reality there are around TWO THOUSAND PKK terrorists in YPG's ranks, in fact even the commander of YPG is a ''former'' PKK terrorists called Mazloum Abdi! This isn't a secret or anything, just search his name you would see he is a known PKK terrorist, but no worries according to our ''trustworthy'' allies he retired being a terrorist and he is a democratic hero now!! Turkey will never ever accept this moronity, while the only way PKK terrorists can be declared innocent they will surrender and apologize to the people that they killed thousands of them. Until it happens Turkey will continue targeting them in every opportunity or YPG can cut it's ties with PKK, in fact Turkey actually asked it from US many times before starting operations against them which was ofc forgotten again! However with even it's commander being a PKK terrorist i guess it is extremely unlikely they can cut ties or could be even called seperate organizations...
PS: There aren't 30-40 million Kurdish people living Kurdistan, for example over 12 million Kurdish people out of Turkey's around 18 million Kurdish minority live in WESTERN Turkey not in Kurdistan. While the biggest Kurdish city in the world isn't Erbil, Sanadaj or Diyarbakır rather ISTANBUL with 3 million Kurdish population! They could at least research about populations properly but nope! By the way even if im a Turkish person im fully supporting a Kurdish state they suffered a lot especially in Iraq and we would rather having a border with a Kurdish state than Iraqis or Syrians. But a KURDISH state not a terrorist state, we will never ever support such a country and even fight against it's forces as long as those PKK terrorists are in charge..
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@ihavetruth4314 ''Ottoman was forced to form alliances at the time of declining power'' lets look how truthful this laughable claim is:
''Franco-Turkish alliance was established in 1536 between the king of France Francis I and the Sultan of the Ottoman Empire Suleiman the Magnificent. In December 1525 a mission led by John Frangipani managed to reach Constantinople, the Ottoman capital, with secret letters asking for the deliverance of king Francis I and an attack on the Habsburg. Frangipani returned with an answer from Suleiman, on 6 February 1526:
I who am the Sultan of Sultans, the sovereign of sovereigns, the dispenser of crowns to the monarchs on the face of the earth, the shadow of the God on Earth, the Sultan and sovereign lord of the Mediterranean Sea and of the Black Sea, of Rumelia and of Anatolia, of Karamania, of the land of Romans, of Dhulkadria, of Diyarbakir, of Kurdistan, of Azerbaijan, of Persia, of Damascus, of Aleppo, of Cairo, of Mecca, of Medina, of Jerusalem, of all Arabia, of Yemen and of many other lands which my noble fore-fathers and my glorious ancestors (may God light up their tombs!) conquered by the force of their arms and which my August Majesty has made subject to my flamboyant sword and my victorious blade, I, Sultan Suleiman Khan, son of Sultan Selim Khan, son of Sultan Bayezid Khan: To thee who art Francesco, king of the province of France ... You have sent to my Porte, refuge of sovereigns, a letter by the hand of your faithful servant Frangipani, and you have furthermore entrusted to him miscellaneous verbal communications. You have informed me that the enemy has overrun your country and that you are at present in prison and a captive, and you have asked aid and succors for your deliverance. All this your saying having been set forth at the foot of my throne, which controls the world. Your situation has gained my imperial understanding in every detail, and I have considered all of it. There is nothing astonishing in emperors being defeated and made captive. Take courage then, and be not dismayed. Our glorious predecessors and our illustrious ancestors (may God light up their tombs!) have never ceased to make war to repel the foe and conquer his lands. We ourselves have followed in their footsteps, and have at all times conquered provinces and citadels of great strength and difficult of approach. Night and day our horse is saddled and our saber is girt. May the God on High promote righteousness! May whatsoever He will be accomplished! For the rest, question your ambassador and be informed. Know that it will be as said.
— Answer from Suleiman the Magnificent to Francis I of France, February 1526.''
So you literally said Ottoman was a declining power during the era of Suleiman the Magnificent?? Which was THE GOLDEN AGE OF OTTOMAN!!! So Ottoman always made alliances in it's history including it's golden age but you ignorant person who know history ''very well'' had no idea i guess!! I would also recommend you to fully read Suleiman's letter so you would learn some real history rather than political nonsense you are full of!! Exactly same goes with your ''victimisation of Turks'' nonsense;
Talking about Turkish civilian casualties = Victimisation of Turks
Talking about Armenian civilian casualties = geNoCide, maSsaCre, aTroCity, tHe gReaTesT eVil etc etc
But i will repeat myself as i said this before, if you people don't care about non-Christian civilians and see their suffering as ''victimisation'' somehow then care to explain (if you can ofc) why should we care about Christian civilians?? And not see their suffering as ''victimisation'' same as you do, huh ''genius''??? And if there could be a whole book about massacres of minorities in Turkish lands there would be AN ENTIRE LIBRARY about massacres of tens of millions of minorities, Native Americans, Africans, Asians, Aborginies by Christian empires, in fact Germany killed way more innocent people in 6 years than Ottoman killed in hundreds of years or tiny Belgium alone killed 15 million people in Congo and what about 5 million Native Americans who got enslaved in North America alone!!! But ofc you very ''humanist'' person don't care about non-Christians so you completely ignore this ENTIRE LIBRARY and talk about a single book as the great evil??!! Seriously in this argument you only proved how extremely racist you are, nothing else...
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Quran doesn't say ''An eye for an eye'', it is Torah which says it and Quran confirms Torah says it again...
''Indeed, We sent down the Torah, in which was guidance and light. The prophets who submitted [to Allah ] judged by it for the Jews, as did the rabbis and scholars by that with which they were entrusted of the Scripture of Allah, and they were witnesses thereto. So do not fear the people but fear Me, and do not exchange My verses for a small price. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the disbelievers. And We ordained for them therein a life for a life, an eye for an eye, a nose for a nose, an ear for an ear, a tooth for a tooth, and for wounds is legal retribution. But whoever gives [up his right as] charity, it is an expiation for him. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the wrongdoers.'' Quran 5:44-45
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Every screen is a computer so they have like 6 computers, they run the game in extremely low resolution to only see it is working not crashed or stuck. Im from Turkey the cost is like one third of US here so it isn't as much as benefical. Most probably they are running from HK, Thailand, Vietnam etc, it is also possible they are running from China with VPN. It doesn't matter for them if client has 500 ms ping, it makes no difference for bots. Blizzard can actually ban VPN usage and issue IP bans for preventing cross region accounts like them but they just don't care..
It is also correct most gold merchants don't play the games, they just have access to multiple bank accounts in different countries so moving money is easier for them. I sell in several games, not bots mostly honest gameplay apart from some market manipulation lol. It is possible to make money with a single account as well, for example i made 3,000 dollars from New world in last three months. Especiallly first month after expansion was quite profitable, i was only crafting and trading on market for a hour daily so 30 hours paid 1000 dollars, quite nice side job especially in Turkey.
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This was mostly neutral but there were still downplaying facts and some huge mistakes, for example PKK was so wickedly attacking civilians including even Kurdish civilians the second highest casualty in this conflict after terrorists themselves isn't Turkish army, police nor civilians at all rather it is actually KURDS, civilians and especially Kurdish village guards that PKK killed thousands of them! There are hundreds of villages in southeastern Turkey alone and because the region is extremely mountainous Turkish army couldn't protect all villages constantly and Kurdish villagers were becoming easy targets for PKK raids. As a solution the government trained and armed Kurdish civilians so they could defend themselves until the army arrived. I bet some people may think ''Kurdish'' PKK and Kurdish villagers didn't fight against each others but in reality it is terrorist PKK which was seizing their assests while calling it ''tax'' and even forcefully recruiting their children! So Kurdish village guards pretty much always fought against them even if they were greatly outnumbered, while PKK simply declared them as ''traitors'' and mercilessly killed thousands of them!! Especially in 90s their violence was out of control if a Kurdish intellectual could talk against PKK would be found dead in their homes. Suicide bombing attacks in public buses, squires, markets, stations, stadiums you name it and this is the reason why literally DOZENS of countries recognize PKK as a terrorist organization as they really are terrorists!! PKK isn't committing as many terrorist attacks as before doesn't prove they magically changed like some westerners claim. Rather it is mainly because they can not smuggle both arms and themselves through Turkish-Iraqi anymore because of constant surveillance by drones. In 90s the best Turkey could do was building border outposts along the mountanious border to literally watch the border with soldiers and several dozen soldiers in a mountain peak were often becoming a target themselves..
It is true KDP asked support from even saddam but they did that out of desperation, after years of infighting they were exhausted and with great Iranian support PUK was gaining upper hand. This was also the point PKK joined PUK alliance not after KDP asked support from Iraqi government, there is a timelapse for obvious reasons! It was also completely ignored after PUK territorial gains in 1997 Turkey invaded norhern Iraq with 60,000 soldiers as PKK alliance couldn't be allowed to win the civil war and gain huge support. Instead of the truth it is told like Barzani stopped the civil war by swinging his magical wand for obvious reasons. This Turkish intervention and ending the civil war in favour of KDP was also the reason why Turkey and Barzanis have been allies since then and 15 Turkish bases were built in KDP territories started from 1998 for training Peshmerga forces and providing security.
It is also a completely a false Turkey blocked KRG's access to the world, in fact both Barzani and Talabani also many Iraqi Kurds have TURKISH diplomatic passports so they can travel through Turkey freely and ask for support from other nations. What more Turkey supposed to do than giving people diplomatic passports who aren't even Turkish citizens, huh?? Then they also completely ignored vast majority of KRG's trade travel through Turkey including 95% of their oil exports and this was the only reason KRG could survive so long. Then comes ''Turkey using PKK as an excuse to attack YPG'' nonsense, while in reality there are around TWO THOUSAND PKK terrorists in YPG's ranks, in fact even the commander of YPG is a ''former'' PKK terrorists called Mazloum Abdi! This isn't a secret or anything, just search his name you would see he is a known PKK terrorist, but no worries according to our ''trustworthy'' allies he retired being a terrorist and he is a democratic hero now!! Turkey will never ever accept this moronity, while the only way PKK terrorists can be declared innocent they will surrender and apologize to the people that they killed thousands of them. Until it happens Turkey will continue targeting them in every opportunity or YPG can cut it's ties with PKK, in fact Turkey actually asked it from US many times before starting operations against them which was ofc forgotten again! However with even it's commander being a PKK terrorist i guess it is extremely unlikely they can cut ties or could be even called seperate organizations...
PS: There aren't 30-40 million Kurdish people living Kurdistan, for example over 12 million Kurdish people out of Turkey's around 18 million Kurdish minority live in WESTERN Turkey not in Kurdistan. While the biggest Kurdish city in the world isn't Erbil, Sanadaj or Diyarbakır rather ISTANBUL with 3 million Kurdish population! They could at least research about populations properly but nope! By the way even if im a Turkish person im fully supporting a Kurdish state they suffered a lot especially in Iraq and we would rather having a border with a Kurdish state than Iraqis or Syrians. But a KURDISH state not a terrorist state, we will never ever support such a country and even fight against it's forces as long as those PKK terrorists are in charge..
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It always surprises me how easily ''humanist'' and ''democratic'' west justifies supporting warlords, dictators, kings or princes if their interests demand it! Tobruk government was killing and destroying Libyan people elected government for years with foreign support like Sudanese, Egyptian and Russian mercenaries and weapons. And no western country did a damn thing to stop it, some of them were even openly supporting warlord haftar like France even if Russia also has been supporting Tobruk. Then when Turkey finally intervened and saved a democratically elected government, also finally enforcing a ceasefire after years of fighting suddenly it became ''a huge problem'' and some western countries even tried to block Turkish support to UN recognized GNA government like what the actual fuck?! If French and German navy didn't back down Turkish frigates were literally open fire on them especially in the case of German piracy, they had no right to stop a Turkish ship in international waters and search it illegally. Some might claim it is too aggressive but Turkey has every right to target pirates regardless what flag they are flying..
It is just a ridiculous joke that Turkey needs Libya to back it's claims in Mediterranean, it is not at all. Turkey didn't sign UNCLOS and it is not binding between Greece and Turkey while UNCLOS wasn't the only UN sea laws convention rather there were more of them before which were signed by both Turkey and Greece. So those previous conventions are binding and Turkey can literally ignore all Greek islands even in Aegean not just Mediterranean 100% according to international laws while only has to leave 12 nmiles EEZ for the islands. Also there is absolutely NOTHING found yet in the disputed area so claiming it was for ''billions of dollars'' is just nothing but another laughable claim! Turkey can not and will not allow Greece to use tiny islands that you need magnifying glass to see on a map and with only few hundred population to reduce EEZ of 80 million people regardless there are resources or not. It is also exactly same in the entire world, for example British islands next to France has both reduced territorial waters and EEZ, French islands next to Canada has reduced EEZ, Finnish islands next to Sweden have both reduced waters and EEZ, Spanish islands next to Morocco have both reduced waters and EEZ but only God knows how exactly Greek islands next to Turkey must have full 12 miles territorial waters and full 200 nmiles EEZ, right?! They will need a war and also a victory to achive it for sure.
The fighting in Libya didn't stop because GNA forces couldn't defeat haftar forces, again completely false information. It stopped because russkies sent two squadrons into Libya, actual fucking russian air force! It created a dilemma for GNA side as they had no air force to speak off and Turkey could send some F-16s to Libya but Libyan bases were in terrible shape and Libya is too far away for air refueling operations. Those russian squadrons could not target Turkish forces but they could shoot down Turkish drones and freely bomb GNA forces while russkies could also send more of them. It is often overlooked in the west for obvious reasons but Turkish backed GNA killed HUNDREDS of wagner mercenaries in Libya and they were willing to further increase their presence. So instead of escalating the war sides signed a ceasefire agreement under Turkish and russky supervision..
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
Noam Chomsky
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@vasilisantonopoulos9326 You claim im biased because i mostly use Turkish sources but then you continue using mostly Greek sources and view the incident from Greek side alone which also makes you biased mate! For example you claim Cyprus was important for Turkey even if there were no Turks but it is just false and Nihat Erim never actually said such a thing! Turkey has Incirlik base which is the largest base in entire middle east and only 150 km away from Cyprus so it had zero strategic value for Turkey, even if i completely agree Cyprus has great strategic value for Brits. Even during Ottoman era the island had zero value and Ottoman tried renting it to British empire for some debt relief and a defensive pact not just once rather three times. Another point which shows Turkey never had any intention to annex parts of Cyprus is the fact Fagamusta which was the most valuable land on the entire island was fenced and prevented from access instead of gifting it to Turkish Cypriots! It shows crystal clear Turkey captured the city only to use as a bargaining chip in the neogitations and expected to give it back but ofc sides could never agree on an agreement therefore Fagamusta remained fenced to this day..
Also Ottoman never actually ceded Cyprus to British empire rather it was illegally annexed when WW1 began. After the wars Turkey inherited everything Ottoman had including it's debt so Turkey could actually demand the island from British empire! And this was the real reason why Brits acted differently against Turkish Cypriots and cooperated with Turkey to please our concerns. Also Brits having closer relations with Turks doesn't make entire Turkish Cypriot community guilty of anything. Right wing Greek Cypriots didn't have any right to fight against Brits for enosis neither. This is the biggest difference between Greek and Turkish views that you somehow consider the island as Greek and claim you had every right for enosis while in reality the last time there was a Greek management of the island it was over TWO THOUSAND YEARS ago. Cyprus wasn't even a Greek island rather an Assyrian island that you colonized it exactly same as Turks! You don't have more rights on Cyprus than Turkish Cypriots especially while Ottoman actually controlled Cyprus longer than Greeks themselves.
On the other hand Greek Cypriots as a majority had every right to seek independence, we know Brits didn't do everything right especially while their colonies suffered greatly. We know what happened when ''holy'' crusader army invaded Cyprus. We know Greece had to fight many wars and sadly got even invaded while people suffered greatly since it's independence. It is you who are forgetting even if we part away badly we lived together over 800 years peacefully, do you sincerely think if Brits ruled you for 800 years you were still speaking Greek?? Nope, you weren't but even if we are Muslims after 800 years you could still completely preserve your language, culture, religion, traditions! And again nope, it isn't because you are such a stubborn nation rather because we never tried to erase those like European colonialism. Turkish Cypriots were never a threat until your right wing ambitions made them so and it is quite natural to expect they feel threatened while a right wing group committing every kind of crimes against even Greek Cypriots. The worst of all NONE of them faced any kind of trials for their crimes! You can't just force Turkey to invade then blame Turkey for everything somehow!! There is hundreds of billions of dollars damage to not Turkey, not Cyprus, not Greece rather to all of us from tourism alone, such as Cyprus was one of the top tourism destionations today. While all three countries could cooperate in many other sectors. And they all are only because ''Cyprus is historically Greek'', just wow!! And your great allies which colonized not a peninsula and small island rather ENTIRE CONTINENTS will help you secure your great historical rights, give us a break will you?? And please wake up, nobody cares about that, nobody cares about even Greece itself that's why everytime there is an incident they are rushing to sell weapons to both sides not just to Greece and often they are offering cheaper prices to Turkey. Like those type 214 submarines that Greece bought 4 for 3 billion euros while same Germany sold 6 to Turkey for 2 billion euros. They are just laughing their asses off and benefiting from us. Turkey needs those weapons anyway as we border quite terrible countries in the east but your money is entirely wasted, Turkey will never ever attack Greece or Cyprus unless you force us to do it...
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@vasilisantonopoulos9326 About Greco-Turkish relations you are just badly informed, for example you claim it is Greece's right to extend territorial waters or EEZ while in reality it is not at all. It would be true if there was no other country sharing subject territorial water or EEZ but Turkey and Greece have one of the closest maritime borders in the world so nope, Greece can not declare everything as they wish. And this is exactly why there were many UN sea law conventions to prevent such disputes causing wars at first place! Turkey didn't sign UNCLOS but it wasn't the only UN sea law convention rather there were many more before that and both Turkey and Greece signed them therefore they are binding between Turkey and Greece not UNCLOS. According to those UN conventions mainland indeed has more weight against islands, in fact by a quick search you can find neutral studies including an American one about how Turkey can legally claim half of Aegean as it's EEZ while literally blocking Greek islands! Did Turkey do such a thing even while there was a world war and Greece was invaded or there were far right Greek regimes which had terrible relations with western allies?? NOPE, even if it would be completely LEGAL and there was very little chance of western sanctions etc against Turkey if it wasn't entirely zero!! Only time Turkey changed anything in Aegean was in 1964 that Turkish territorial waters increased from 3 miles to 6 miles 28 years later than Greece did in 1936!! So claiming Turkey is trying to get more of Aegean is nothing but A TOTAL LIE as we had many opportunities to do that but didn't, even our territorial waters was extended decades later. Rather very obviously Turkey wants to keep Aegean as it is 45% Greek sea, 7% Turkish sea and 48% high seas which allows Turkish ships to access high seas from all ports in Turkey. While when territorial waters are extended many Turkish ports literally become landlocked including even İzmir port which is one of largest in Turkey. If Turkey was trying to make Greek ports landlocked you ''neutral'' jokes where claiming it was against international laws for sure as UNCLOS isn't binding between Turkey and Greece but now only God knows how exactly it becomes ''it's legal right''!! Here let me tell you about how much Greece cares about what is legal, there is ONLY ONE COUNTRY on Earth which could declare longer airspace than it's territorial waters or borders and actually violate international laws and it is GREECE. Ofc Turkey refuses this increase and acts like Greek airspace is still 6 miles and that's how there are so many Turkish airspace ''violations'' happening. Imagine trying to literally block Aegean to Turkish ships and planes then claim it is not you who is spitting. And nope, Turkey didn't officially claim Mavi vatan until you one sidedly decided a huge EEZ as far as Cyprus and reduced Turkish EEZ over 100,000 km2 using a tiny island called Kastellorizo with 200 population. Also agreed with third parties to build a pipeline crossing there which would make Greek claims permanent if it happened!! While after ONLY that Turkey sent war and drilling ships to region to show if we all are deciding EEZ as we wish without any agreement Turkey can claim such a huge EEZ as well...
Exactly same goes for Cyprus you claim after facist and even terrorist EOKA-B regime collapsed and Turkish Cypriots or Turkey had no reason to keep the island divided but care to share how many EOKA-B terrorists got arrested and faced trial for their crimes against Turkish Cypriots or even Greek Cypriots as they killed dozens of innocent Greeks as well??? ZERO, NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THEM!! There are literally facist terrorists freely living in so called democratic Cyprus and you could still ask why Turkish Cypriots want an agreement to feel safe!! And care to share why exactly Annan plan was a disgrace to human rights, democracy and sovereignity??? You kept claiming it was so bad for Greek Cypriots without writing a single word to explain why. While there are still terrorists walking in the streets of Cyprus, while there are still like minded people in Cypriot government Turkish Cypriots will continue asking for an agreement to gurantee their safety and rights. While Turkey will continue defending them at all cost, im sorry Greece always cared about it's own benefit over Greek Cypriots but Turkey isn't same..
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This was mostly neutral but there were still downplaying facts and some huge mistakes, for example PKK was so wickedly attacking civilians including even Kurdish civilians the second highest casualty in this conflict after terrorists themselves isn't Turkish army, police nor civilians at all rather it is actually KURDS, civilians and especially Kurdish village guards that PKK killed thousands of them! There are hundreds of villages in southeastern Turkey alone and because the region is extremely mountainous Turkish army couldn't protect all villages constantly and Kurdish villagers were becoming easy targets for PKK raids. As a solution the government trained and armed Kurdish civilians so they could defend themselves until the army arrived. I bet some people may think ''Kurdish'' PKK and Kurdish villagers didn't fight against each others but in reality it is terrorist PKK which was seizing their assests while calling it ''tax'' and even forcefully recruiting their children! So Kurdish village guards pretty much always fought against them even if they were greatly outnumbered, while PKK simply declared them as ''traitors'' and mercilessly killed thousands of them!! Especially in 90s their violence was out of control if a Kurdish intellectual could talk against PKK would be found dead in their homes. Suicide bombing attacks in public buses, squires, markets, stations, stadiums you name it and this is the reason why literally DOZENS of countries recognize PKK as a terrorist organization as they really are terrorists!! PKK isn't committing as many terrorist attacks as before doesn't prove they magically changed like some westerners claim. Rather it is mainly because they can not smuggle both arms and themselves through Turkish-Iraqi anymore because of constant surveillance by drones. In 90s the best Turkey could do was building border outposts along the mountanious border to literally watch the border with soldiers and several dozen soldiers in a mountain peak were often becoming a target themselves..
It is true KDP asked support from even saddam but they did that out of desperation, after years of infighting they were exhausted and with great Iranian support PUK was gaining upper hand. This was also the point PKK joined PUK alliance not after KDP asked support from Iraqi government, there is a timelapse for obvious reasons! It was also completely ignored after PUK territorial gains in 1997 Turkey invaded norhern Iraq with 60,000 soldiers as PKK alliance couldn't be allowed to win the civil war and gain huge support. Instead of the truth it is told like Barzani stopped the civil war by swinging his magical wand for obvious reasons. This Turkish intervention and ending the civil war in favour of KDP was also the reason why Turkey and Barzanis have been allies since then and 15 Turkish bases were built in KDP territories started from 1998 for training Peshmerga forces and providing security.
It is also a completely a false Turkey blocked KRG's access to the world, in fact both Barzani and Talabani also many Iraqi Kurds have TURKISH diplomatic passports so they can travel through Turkey freely and ask for support from other nations. What more Turkey supposed to do than giving people diplomatic passports who aren't even Turkish citizens, huh?? Then they also completely ignored vast majority of KRG's trade travel through Turkey including 95% of their oil exports and this was the only reason KRG could survive so long. Then comes ''Turkey using PKK as an excuse to attack YPG'' nonsense, while in reality there are around TWO THOUSAND PKK terrorists in YPG's ranks, in fact even the commander of YPG is a ''former'' PKK terrorists called Mazloum Abdi! This isn't a secret or anything, just search his name you would see he is a known PKK terrorist, but no worries according to our ''trustworthy'' allies he retired being a terrorist and he is a democratic hero now!! Turkey will never ever accept this moronity, while the only way PKK terrorists can be declared innocent they will surrender and apologize to the people that they killed thousands of them. Until it happens Turkey will continue targeting them in every opportunity or YPG can cut it's ties with PKK, in fact Turkey actually asked it from US many times before starting operations against them which was ofc forgotten again! However with even it's commander being a PKK terrorist i guess it is extremely unlikely they can cut ties or could be even called seperate organizations...
PS: There aren't 30-40 million Kurdish people living Kurdistan, for example over 12 million Kurdish people out of Turkey's around 18 million Kurdish minority live in WESTERN Turkey not in Kurdistan. While the biggest Kurdish city in the world isn't Erbil, Sanadaj or Diyarbakır rather ISTANBUL with 3 million Kurdish population! They could at least research about populations properly but nope! By the way even if im a Turkish person im fully supporting a Kurdish state they suffered a lot especially in Iraq and we would rather having a border with a Kurdish state than Iraqis or Syrians. But a KURDISH state not a terrorist state, we will never ever support such a country and even fight against it's forces as long as those PKK terrorists are in charge..
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
Noam Chomsky
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
-Noam Chomsky
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
--Noam Chomsky
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This was mostly neutral but there were still downplaying facts and some huge mistakes, for example PKK was so wickedly attacking civilians including even Kurdish civilians the second highest casualty in this conflict after terrorists themselves isn't Turkish army, police nor civilians at all rather it is actually KURDS, civilians and especially Kurdish village guards that PKK killed thousands of them! There are hundreds of villages in southeastern Turkey alone and because the region is extremely mountainous Turkish army couldn't protect all villages constantly and Kurdish villagers were becoming easy targets for PKK raids. As a solution the government trained and armed Kurdish civilians so they could defend themselves until the army arrived. I bet some people may think ''Kurdish'' PKK and Kurdish villagers didn't fight against each others but in reality it is terrorist PKK which was seizing their assests while calling it ''tax'' and even forcefully recruiting their children! So Kurdish village guards pretty much always fought against them even if they were greatly outnumbered, while PKK simply declared them as ''traitors'' and mercilessly killed thousands of them!! Especially in 90s their violence was out of control if a Kurdish intellectual could talk against PKK would be found dead in their homes. Suicide bombing attacks in public buses, squires, markets, stations, stadiums you name it and this is the reason why literally DOZENS of countries recognize PKK as a terrorist organization as they really are terrorists!! PKK isn't committing as many terrorist attacks as before doesn't prove they magically changed like some westerners claim. Rather it is mainly because they can not smuggle both arms and themselves through Turkish-Iraqi anymore because of constant surveillance by drones. In 90s the best Turkey could do was building border outposts along the mountanious border to literally watch the border with soldiers and several dozen soldiers in a mountain peak were often becoming a target themselves..
It is true KDP asked support from even saddam but they did that out of desperation, after years of infighting they were exhausted and with great Iranian support PUK was gaining upper hand. This was also the point PKK joined PUK alliance not after KDP asked support from Iraqi government, there is a timelapse for obvious reasons! It was also completely ignored after PUK territorial gains in 1997 Turkey invaded norhern Iraq with 60,000 soldiers as PKK alliance couldn't be allowed to win the civil war and gain huge support. Instead of the truth it is told like Barzani stopped the civil war by swinging his magical wand for obvious reasons. This Turkish intervention and ending the civil war in favour of KDP was also the reason why Turkey and Barzanis have been allies since then and 15 Turkish bases were built in KDP territories started from 1998 for training Peshmerga forces and providing security.
It is also a completely a false Turkey blocked KRG's access to the world, in fact both Barzani and Talabani also many Iraqi Kurds have TURKISH diplomatic passports so they can travel through Turkey freely and ask for support from other nations. What more Turkey supposed to do than giving people diplomatic passports who aren't even Turkish citizens, huh?? Then they also completely ignored vast majority of KRG's trade travel through Turkey including 95% of their oil exports and this was the only reason KRG could survive so long. Then comes ''Turkey using PKK as an excuse to attack YPG'' nonsense, while in reality there are around TWO THOUSAND PKK terrorists in YPG's ranks, in fact even the commander of YPG is a ''former'' PKK terrorists called Mazloum Abdi! This isn't a secret or anything, just search his name you would see he is a known PKK terrorist, but no worries according to our ''trustworthy'' allies he retired being a terrorist and he is a democratic hero now!! Turkey will never ever accept this moronity, while the only way PKK terrorists can be declared innocent they will surrender and apologize to the people that they killed thousands of them. Until it happens Turkey will continue targeting them in every opportunity or YPG can cut it's ties with PKK, in fact Turkey actually asked it from US many times before starting operations against them which was ofc forgotten again! However with even it's commander being a PKK terrorist i guess it is extremely unlikely they can cut ties or could be even called seperate organizations...
PS: There aren't 30-40 million Kurdish people living Kurdistan, for example over 12 million Kurdish people out of Turkey's around 18 million Kurdish minority live in WESTERN Turkey not in Kurdistan. While the biggest Kurdish city in the world isn't Erbil, Sanadaj or Diyarbakır rather ISTANBUL with 3 million Kurdish population! They could at least research about populations properly but nope! By the way even if im a Turkish person im fully supporting a Kurdish state they suffered a lot especially in Iraq and we would rather having a border with a Kurdish state than Iraqis or Syrians. But a KURDISH state not a terrorist state, we will never ever support such a country and even fight against it's forces as long as those PKK terrorists are in charge..
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
--Noam Chomsky
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
-Noam Chomsky
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Yeah, this was surprisingly neutral, i thought it was going to downright blame us like western media but he fairly mentioned why we are upset and there is a real possiblity of war because actions of spoiled Greeks. Still there were missing points, first of all there are so many Turkish ''violations'' of Greek airspace because Greece increased their airspace to 12 miles in Aegean while their territorial waters are still 6 miles. So Greece became the ONLY country on Earth which has longer airspace than their territorial waters or borders!! Turkey completely refuses this airspace increase and acts like Greek airspace is still 6 miles so there are Turkish ''violations'' literally everyday. Secondly if Greece increases their territorial waters to 12 miles the international channel in middle of Aegean disappears and not only all ship traffic going to Istanbul gets blocked also several large cities literally become landlocked including İzmir. So there is no way at all Turkey can accept 12 miles Greek territorial waters without an agreement guraanteing safe passage or an international corridor. There is really no other way, in fact Turkey officially considers declearing 12 miles territorial waters as a declaration of war that's why Greece couldn't do it so far instead only increased their airspace to 12 miles..
It gets even worse if we include treaty of Lausanne which forbids any militarization not just foritification of islands close to Turkey and Greece is very clearly violating it, even their former PM publicly acknowledged they indeed violating treaty of Lausanne. Turkey officially accepted those islands as Greek islands in only treaty of Lausanne so violating it is so insanely stupid for Greece as everything might happen if it is revoked!! Turkey wouldn't invade southern Cyprus or Greek islands with large Greek populations like Samos or Rhodes but there are THOUSANDS of islands, islets and rocks in Aegean without any population at all or only few hundred including Kastellorizo which might be invaded and claimed to increase Turkish territorial waters in Aegean. Kastellorizo is also a huge problem as it reduces Turkish EEZ over 100,000 km2 alone even if it has only 200 population. No country on Earth would accept such an EEZ, in fact English islands next to France have reduced terrorital waters and EEZ, French islands next to Canada have reduced EEZ, Spanish islands next to Morocco have reduced territorial waters and EEZ, Finish islands next to Sweden have reduced terrirotiral waters and EEZ, Ukranian island next to Romania has reduced EEZ but only God knows how exactly Greek islands next to Turkey must have full territorial waters and EEZ!! Turkey will never ever accept such a moronity and there will be war instead for sure. While militarizing Greek islands doesn't reduce a chance of Turkish invasion at all, those islands are so close to Turkey some of them are even in RIFLE range and they all are constantly monitored. You can bet Turkish army even knows how many times those Greek soldiers pissing in a day not just their exact positions so in case of war they will be targeted so badly with rockets, missiles and shells they will desert their positions and hide in cities in no time!! It is just an impossible task to defend those islands especially against a force with hundreds of armed drones. It would be far better for them if they actually respect treaty of Lausanne or even better sign a new agreement with Turkey permanently fixing issues...
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This was mostly neutral but there were still downplaying facts and some huge mistakes, for example PKK was so wickedly attacking civilians including even Kurdish civilians the second highest casualty in this conflict after terrorists themselves isn't Turkish army, police nor civilians at all rather it is actually KURDS, civilians and especially Kurdish village guards that PKK killed thousands of them! There are hundreds of villages in southeastern Turkey alone and because the region is extremely mountainous Turkish army couldn't protect all villages constantly and Kurdish villagers were becoming easy targets for PKK raids. As a solution the government trained and armed Kurdish civilians so they could defend themselves until the army arrived. I bet some people may think ''Kurdish'' PKK and Kurdish villagers didn't fight against each others but in reality it is terrorist PKK which was seizing their assests while calling it ''tax'' and even forcefully recruiting their children! So Kurdish village guards pretty much always fought against them even if they were greatly outnumbered, while PKK simply declared them as ''traitors'' and mercilessly killed thousands of them!! Especially in 90s their violence was out of control if a Kurdish intellectual could talk against PKK would be found dead in their homes. Suicide bombing attacks in public buses, squires, markets, stations, stadiums you name it and this is the reason why literally DOZENS of countries recognize PKK as a terrorist organization as they really are terrorists!! PKK isn't committing as many terrorist attacks as before doesn't prove they magically changed like some westerners claim. Rather it is mainly because they can not smuggle both arms and themselves through Turkish-Iraqi anymore because of constant surveillance by drones. In 90s the best Turkey could do was building border outposts along the mountanious border to literally watch the border with soldiers and several dozen soldiers in a mountain peak were often becoming a target themselves..
It is true KDP asked support from even saddam but they did that out of desperation, after years of infighting they were exhausted and with great Iranian support PUK was gaining upper hand. This was also the point PKK joined PUK alliance not after KDP asked support from Iraqi government, there is a timelapse for obvious reasons! It was also completely ignored after PUK territorial gains in 1997 Turkey invaded norhern Iraq with 60,000 soldiers as PKK alliance couldn't be allowed to win the civil war and gain huge support. Instead of the truth it is told like Barzani stopped the civil war by swinging his magical wand for obvious reasons. This Turkish intervention and ending the civil war in favour of KDP was also the reason why Turkey and Barzanis have been allies since then and 15 Turkish bases were built in KDP territories started from 1998 for training Peshmerga forces and providing security.
It is also a completely a false Turkey blocked KRG's access to the world, in fact both Barzani and Talabani also many Iraqi Kurds have TURKISH diplomatic passports so they can travel through Turkey freely and ask for support from other nations. What more Turkey supposed to do than giving people diplomatic passports who aren't even Turkish citizens, huh?? Then they also completely ignored vast majority of KRG's trade travel through Turkey including 95% of their oil exports and this was the only reason KRG could survive so long. Then comes ''Turkey using PKK as an excuse to attack YPG'' nonsense, while in reality there are around TWO THOUSAND PKK terrorists in YPG's ranks, in fact even the commander of YPG is a ''former'' PKK terrorists called Mazloum Abdi! This isn't a secret or anything, just search his name you would see he is a known PKK terrorist, but no worries according to our ''trustworthy'' allies he retired being a terrorist and he is a democratic hero now!! Turkey will never ever accept this moronity, while the only way PKK terrorists can be declared innocent they will surrender and apologize to the people that they killed thousands of them. Until it happens Turkey will continue targeting them in every opportunity or YPG can cut it's ties with PKK, in fact Turkey actually asked it from US many times before starting operations against them which was ofc forgotten again! However with even it's commander being a PKK terrorist i guess it is extremely unlikely they can cut ties or could be even called seperate organizations...
PS: There aren't 30-40 million Kurdish people living Kurdistan, for example over 12 million Kurdish people out of Turkey's around 18 million Kurdish minority live in WESTERN Turkey not in Kurdistan. While the biggest Kurdish city in the world isn't Erbil, Sanadaj or Diyarbakır rather ISTANBUL with 3 million Kurdish population! They could at least research about populations properly but nope! By the way even if im a Turkish person im fully supporting a Kurdish state they suffered a lot especially in Iraq and we would rather having a border with a Kurdish state than Iraqis or Syrians. But a KURDISH state not a terrorist state, we will never ever support such a country and even fight against it's forces as long as those PKK terrorists are in charge..
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
-Noam Chomsky
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@ortho-store Giving examples from a movie that all historians agree the battle actually happened but numbers are completely wrong??? You thiefreeks are so miserable, LMAO!! But lets give a recent example, shall we?
In 1920 there were 10 million Turks against 6.5 million Greeks and the biggest empires of the time were supporting Greece directly on the ground such as Brits and French!! The worst part Turks were constantly fighting for 9 years including a world war which is why Turkish side was actually outnumbered greatly in Turkish war of independence such as here is the last battle between Greeks and Turks:
Battle of Dumlupınar in 1922
Turkish side:
98,670 infantry
5,286 cavalry
323 artillery
0 (Zero) reserve
Greek side:
130,000 infantry
1,300 cavalry
348 artillery
70,000 reserve
Greek side also had more machine guns, ammunations, trucks, supplies, planes etc and greeks were positioned very well in a valley between two mountains and many hills. Even then on 26 August 1922 Turkish side launched a great offensive and slaughtered 60% of greek army within only 4 days!! Greek casualties were so sewere they couldn't even reform their lines again rather ran back to Greece in a complete disarray while attacking Turkish civilians and burning villages and towns...
Today there are more than 70 million Turks against 10 million thiefreeks who can't even survive without getting charity money from Europe while somehow you thiefreeks still think you can defeat us Turks even if you miserably failed in 1000 times more favourable conditions, LMAO!! You thiefreeks should watch what you are doing very closely otherwise you will end up getting slaughtered again without any question at all :))
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@danadurnfordkevinblanchdebunk Over TEN MILLION people are dying in china annually while you examined tens of millions of those deaths so you could confidently claim ''in chinese history nobody ever died from radiation'', huh?? TENS of THOUSANDS got wounded, killed, sterilized, cancer etc from nuclear tests and accidents worldwide including US, UK, Germany, France, Russia, Ukraine etc but according to you ''genius'' such incident never happened in corrupt china because xi jiping can absorb radiation i guess, LMAO...
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
Noam Chomsky
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@freed8mcchaser Fabulous nonsense? Minimum wage is 330 euro in Montenegro while it is 1,600 euro in UK almost FIVE TIMES higher!! So the real nonsense here somehow trying to use UK costs as a reference for Montenegro while in reality even Turkey is FAR more developed than Montenegro. In underdeveloped countries like Montenegro such projects cost way way less because less labour cost, less land cost, less material cost and instead of defending such nonsenses you should learn a little bit economics..
Also i shared the cost of Turkish high speed train which was around 3 billion dollars and it is 465 km long:
Construction on the route is taking place in two phases. The first phase is a 251 kilometres (156 mi), $747 million route between Sincan (a district of Ankara) and İnönü, for which construction began in 2003 on a segment between Esenkent and Eskisehir; this segment was completed in 2007. The second phase, between İnönü and Pendik, is about 214 kilometres (133 mi) long, and costs $2.27 billion. The substantially higher price of the second phase is due to more challenging terrain than the first, including 33 bridges and 39 tunnels.
So Turkey builds 465 long high speed rail for 3 billion dollars while UK builds 580 km rail line for 132 billion dollars somehow!! I think this number is absurd even for UK so it is either wrong information or the project isn't just rail line rather other construction projects are involved. For example Spain is planning another high cost project to replace and modernize existing rail lines for Madrid area and Madrid station will be moved into underground while parks, apartments etc will be built to ground level. Such a project ofc costs many times more than just rail line for obvious reasons...
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
Noam Chomsky
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
-Noam Chomsky
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
Noam Chomsky
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Turkish army is actually 20% Kurdish force and they also fight against those so called ''Kurds'' in Syria simply because nobody in the region calls them just Kurds here. It is called YPG a Syrian branch of PKK which has been around since 80s as a marxist organization first which wanted to establish a communist Kurdish country. After soviet union collapsed and accordingly their funding ran dry they became freelancers. They fought during Kurdish civil war between 1994 and 1997 as a PUK (Second largest party/tribe in KRG) and IRANIAN ally against KDP which is the largest party/tribe in KRG. And they were actually winning the civil war until Turkish army invaded KRG in 1997 with 50,000 soldiers and ended the civil war in favour of KDP, that's exactly how KDP and Turkey have been allies since then and there are 13 Turkish bases in KRG. After Turkish invasion they ran into Qandil mountains in KRG where regional government control is pretty much non-existing even today and stayed there until American invasion of Iraq. So after a bumpy ride they finally found the perfect master which is rich and could babysit them with it's lies and influence. Since then they have been a US proxy in both KRG and later Syria, cooperation in Iraq is often overlooked as on paper US army has been cooperating with PUK Peshmerga not PKK terrorists. But in reality PUK Peshmerga is not an army and they have all kind of smaller groups in their armed force as allies. And since Kurdish civil war PUK and PKK were allies for 2 decades, in fact it was PUK Peshmerga and PKK terrorists who captured and controlled Kirkuk for several years. However after Iraqi army could push them out of Kirkuk easily their relations went sour as both sides kept blaming each others for weak defence of the city. And later PUK completely banned PKK activities in their territories which ended their alliance in 2021. So right now they have no allies left in Iraq and being hunted down anytime they leave their caves, this is why more and more PKK members are running into Syria and becoming ''democratic Kurds'' aka YPG terrorists, in fact even so called commander of YPG is actually a PKK terrorists! But according to our ''lovely'' NATO allies Mazloum Kobani is a FORMER PKK terrorists who ''retired'' and became ''an angel of democracy'' now!! Yeah right, PKK/YPG didn't hold A SINGLE ELECTION in their entire history anywhere on Earth and same people are controlling the group for decades but they are somehow democratic that only God knows how exactly..
Here comes the excuses ''they didn't hold any election because turkish oppression didn't let them, they are freedom fighters that's why they are democratic'' etc let me ask you a question, who do you think has second highest casualties in this war after terrorists themselves? Turkish soldiers?? Civilians?? No, the second highest casualty in this war is KURDISH VILLAGE GUARDS! There are thousands of villages in south-eastern Turkey alone and the army couldn't defend all of them constantly therefore government decided to arm Kurdish villagers so they could defend themselves until the army arrives. I bet you would expect ''Kurdish freedomfighters'' PKK and Kurdish villagers didn't fight against each others, right? But in reality it is terrorist PKK which was seizing assests of villagers as ''tax'' and even forcefully recruiting their children so Kurdish village guards pretty much always fought against them even if they were greatly outnumbered! While PKK simply declared them as ''traitors'' and mercilessly killed thousands of them, that's how they have second highest casualties in this war!! Such example of freedom fighters i must say and it doesn't even end here, hundreds of bomb attacks against public markets, squares, stadiums, government buildings. Executions of Kurdish civilians who were against them, plating mines into rural roads against Turkish army which pretty much always killed innocent civilians passing, suicide attacks with trucks loaded with explosives which happened as late as 2016 when they attacked a police station and leveled down an entire block into ground killing dozens. Few months later another truck exploded while they were still loading it and leveled down several buildings killing all terrorists and many civilians. That's your ''freedom fighters'' if you can believe such an extreme moronity and this is the reason why dozens of countries consider PKK as a terrorist organization as they are truly. But ofc it was in the past, today PKK is a lovely, reliable and democratic US partner anymore even if US also considers PKK as a terrorist organization!! You westerners love to talk from your high horses about humanism, democracy, rule of law etc but at the end all you care is your own benefits and could even support terrorists for it, such a pity...
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@yarsaz4347 You ''genius'' must learn the UN definition of genocide that ''a crime committed with the intent to destroy a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, in whole or in part''. Now go check out every order Ottoman had, intercepted or captured by entente powers that in single one of them there is any intention to destroy Armenians! The whole point of Armenian displacement into Syria and Lebanon was moving them away from front lines with russian empire which was supplying them weapons not to destroy them. And this was the reason why Armenians who lived in western Ottoman weren't affected at all as they never received russian weapons nor rebelled against the empire. But ofc you ''educated'' jokes have absolutely no idea russian empire invaded entire eastern Turkey in 1914, again absolutely no idea Armenians rebelled as a russian proxy shortly after while believing Ottoman was about to collapse after their defeats against russians, again absolutely no idea Armenian rebel forces didn't only target Ottoman also Muslim civilians and according to ENTENTE sources over 300,000 Muslims were killed in Anatolia!! If two groups of people are engaged against each others we call that a CIVIL WAR and if those groups are committing atrocities against each others we call that WAR CRIMES, not a genocide at all. And this is exactly why UN and many western countries didn't recognize a total fabrication as Armenian genocide so far..
Thank you ''the wise one'' for telling us who we are, you are so gifted you know who people are from thousands of kms away. I almost envy you, almost..
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
--Noam Chomsky
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
Noam Chomsky
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This was mostly neutral but there were still downplaying facts and some huge mistakes, for example PKK was so wickedly attacking civilians including even Kurdish civilians the second highest casualty in this conflict after terrorists themselves isn't Turkish army, police nor civilians at all rather it is actually KURDS, civilians and especially Kurdish village guards that PKK killed thousands of them! There are hundreds of villages in southeastern Turkey alone and because the region is extremely mountainous Turkish army couldn't protect all villages constantly and Kurdish villagers were becoming easy targets for PKK raids. As a solution the government trained and armed Kurdish civilians so they could defend themselves until the army arrived. I bet some people may think ''Kurdish'' PKK and Kurdish villagers didn't fight against each others but in reality it is terrorist PKK which was seizing their assests while calling it ''tax'' and even forcefully recruiting their children! So Kurdish village guards pretty much always fought against them even if they were greatly outnumbered, while PKK simply declared them as ''traitors'' and mercilessly killed thousands of them!! Especially in 90s their violence was out of control if a Kurdish intellectual could talk against PKK would be found dead in their homes. Suicide bombing attacks in public buses, squires, markets, stations, stadiums you name it and this is the reason why literally DOZENS of countries recognize PKK as a terrorist organization as they really are terrorists!! PKK isn't committing as many terrorist attacks as before doesn't prove they magically changed like some westerners claim. Rather it is mainly because they can not smuggle both arms and themselves through Turkish-Iraqi anymore because of constant surveillance by drones. In 90s the best Turkey could do was building border outposts along the mountanious border to literally watch the border with soldiers and several dozen soldiers in a mountain peak were often becoming a target themselves..
It is true KDP asked support from even saddam but they did that out of desperation, after years of infighting they were exhausted and with great Iranian support PUK was gaining upper hand. This was also the point PKK joined PUK alliance not after KDP asked support from Iraqi government, there is a timelapse for obvious reasons! It was also completely ignored after PUK territorial gains in 1997 Turkey invaded norhern Iraq with 60,000 soldiers as PKK alliance couldn't be allowed to win the civil war and gain huge support. Instead of the truth it is told like Barzani stopped the civil war by swinging his magical wand for obvious reasons. This Turkish intervention and ending the civil war in favour of KDP was also the reason why Turkey and Barzanis have been allies since then and 15 Turkish bases were built in KDP territories started from 1998 for training Peshmerga forces and providing security.
It is also a completely a false Turkey blocked KRG's access to the world, in fact both Barzani and Talabani also many Iraqi Kurds have TURKISH diplomatic passports so they can travel through Turkey freely and ask for support from other nations. What more Turkey supposed to do than giving people diplomatic passports who aren't even Turkish citizens, huh?? Then they also completely ignored vast majority of KRG's trade travel through Turkey including 95% of their oil exports and this was the only reason KRG could survive so long. Then comes ''Turkey using PKK as an excuse to attack YPG'' nonsense, while in reality there are around TWO THOUSAND PKK terrorists in YPG's ranks, in fact even the commander of YPG is a ''former'' PKK terrorists called Mazloum Abdi! This isn't a secret or anything, just search his name you would see he is a known PKK terrorist, but no worries according to our ''trustworthy'' allies he retired being a terrorist and he is a democratic hero now!! Turkey will never ever accept this moronity, while the only way PKK terrorists can be declared innocent they will surrender and apologize to the people that they killed thousands of them. Until it happens Turkey will continue targeting them in every opportunity or YPG can cut it's ties with PKK, in fact Turkey actually asked it from US many times before starting operations against them which was ofc forgotten again! However with even it's commander being a PKK terrorist i guess it is extremely unlikely they can cut ties or could be even called seperate organizations...
PS: There aren't 30-40 million Kurdish people living Kurdistan, for example over 12 million Kurdish people out of Turkey's around 18 million Kurdish minority live in WESTERN Turkey not in Kurdistan. While the biggest Kurdish city in the world isn't Erbil, Sanadaj or Diyarbakır rather ISTANBUL with 3 million Kurdish population! They could at least research about populations properly but nope! By the way even if im a Turkish person im fully supporting a Kurdish state they suffered a lot especially in Iraq and we would rather having a border with a Kurdish state than Iraqis or Syrians. But a KURDISH state not a terrorist state, we will never ever support such a country and even fight against it's forces as long as those PKK terrorists are in charge..
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@ahistorian9120
Kalbajar District: Azerbaijanis 83.2% (65,082)
Lachin District: Azerbaijanis 94.5% (54,665)
Zangilan District: Azerbaijanis 97.6% (38.685)
Qubadli District: Azerbaijanis 99.5% (36,537)
Jabrayil District: Azerbaijanis: 49,415 (98.5%)
Fuzuli District: Azerbaijanis: 165,322 (99.8%)
Agdam District: Azerbaijanis: 155,293 (99.3%)
Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Oblast: Azerbaijanis: 40,688 (21,52%)
605.687 Azerbaijanis and everybody on Earth knows this wasn't an official Azerbaijani census rather a Soviet census and not everybody could be counted expect you ''not brainwashed'' person ofc, LMAO!! And here comes the ''excuses'' as Ganja and Baku where Armenians were small minority while on the other hand completely ignoring Azerbaijanis who got ethnic cleansed in Armenia even if they were majority like Zangezursky Uyezd which had 63,6 thousand Armenian (46,2%), 71,2 thousand Azerbaijani (51,7%) population in 1897 but in 1922 there were only 59,9 thousand Armenians (89,5%), 6,5 thousand Azerbaijanis (10,2%) while over 65,000 Azerbaijanis ''peacefully'' disappeared according to you ''not brainwashed'', right?? What about Yerevan and many other Armenian cities which also had hundreds of thousands Azerbaijani minortiy??? I guess they all are ''peacefully'' disappeared according to you the disgusting joke who claims im seeing what i like to see while he is the one ignoring things...
Those borders were demarcated when Seljuk empire captured most of Caucasus in 1048 exactly 972 years ago that i bet you bring that subject to claim ''Armenians ruled these lands for 5253527 years'' moronity but what about Native Americans in USA or Canada, Aborigines in Australia, two dozen nations who live in east of the Ural mountains?? I guess according to your ''logic'' they have every right to ethic cleanse those lands while killing and displacing millions of people??? You are indeed one of the most brainwashed people in the world as everything you defend is actually complete nonsenses or absurd double standarts!! So i recommend you to shed your crocodile tears only while arguing with ignorant westerners so perhaps you can receive some charity money :))
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
Noam Chomsky
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
--Noam Chomsky
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This was mostly correct but there were some huge mistakes and clear bias through it, for example in Ottoman religious minorities could operate their own religious institutions, their own government institutions, their own schools, their own courts, they could even issue their own laws! Care to share which European empire gave such rights to any religious minority? But even then they were still ''persecuted'', i really wonder how exactly. Jizya tax was very very small price for having such rights and it wasn't even a high tax, for example wealthier regions like Greece never had any problems paying Jizya tax for over 500 years while only really poor regions like Serbia struggled to pay it so blood tax was collected instead. And those children perhaps were taken forcefully but they weren't becoming slave soldiers at all. They were receiving 4 years long education and depending on their success they were receiving further education and becoming Ottoman officials or were enlisted into Janissary corps which was receiving one of highest salaries among all Ottoman standing army but they were still ''slaves'' somehow..
Also claiming Muhammad Ali Pasha was a bashi-bazouk is a massive mistake, i really wonder where he could learn such a thing! Ali Pasha was an Albanian who received at least 10 years of education to become a ''general'' (Pasha is actually a Turkish rank close to general) to lead armies and govern provinces. But he indeed raised a small army of Albanians as bashi-bazouks. There was never an official Ottoman unit as bashi-bazouks but especially during war times Pashas were often raising irregular armies as bashi-bazouks so it just means irregular soldiers.
As one of correct information, the infighting between Arabic tribes had been quite common as mostly Arabs were ruling themselves not Ottoman which allowed a lot of powerplay between tribes. In late 18th century first Saudi rebellion happened along with their radical ideology, same as their late atrocities they were quite brutal burning down towns and slaughtering ''non-Muslims'' as they wished. Ottoman ordered Ali Pasha to raise a large army in Egypt and end their rebellion. Ali Pasha did so without much resistance from Saudis but he had a large intact army now while Ottoman was quite weak so he decided his payment wasn't enough and asked for more by force. He never ever became ruler of Egypt, this is another huge mistake ''history channels'' are often making. Muhammad Ali Pasha remained as OTTOMAN GOVERNER of Egypt even after defeating Ottoman, only became governer of Syria etc as well. Ottoman attacked him back only few years later but didn't remove him from his position entirely only revoked his governship from other regions while he and his dynasty remained as governers of Egypt. Even in 1914 Egypt was still officially a part of Ottoman until WW1 began then British finally ended it by using the war as an excuse.
As last even this map isn't enough to explain struggle in the region as more and more foreign powers kept always involving, for example Russian empire's invasion of Caucasus changed power balance entirely and Armenians became a russian proxy since then. It was somehow claimed that Armenian population disappeared because of genocide but it is completely false as in 1914 Russian empire invaded eastern Turkey so Ottoman wasn't even controlling Armenian majority cities in 1915 rather they were under control of RUSSIAN EMPIRE! After Ottoman defeats against russian empire Armenians wrongly believed Ottoman was about to collapse and rebelled as a russian proxy in late 1914. But ofc they were wrong and Ottoman displaced them into Syria and Lebanon to suppress their rebellion then most of them decided to migrate into Russian empire over Caucasus mountains. The whole point of this displacement was moving Armenians away from front lines with russian empire which was supplying them arms but ofc even Armenian rebellion is somewhat forgotten thanks to re-writing history efforts and ''historians'' like this guy..
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
Noam Chomsky
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
Noam Chomsky
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
--Noam Chomsky
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The problem with anti-Altaicists their ''contact'' explanation for similarities doesn't makes sense at all! For example Hebrew and Arabic have a lot of similarity despite being from different families aka origin but they have been in contact for thousands of years. Not even in same region, country nor city, in same neighbourhoods Hebrew and Arabic speakers living next door to each others! And Hebrew and Arabic don't only share grammar similarity also vocabulary is shared, there are thousands of same or same origin words. Care to share when such a Turkic and Japanese contact happened? Nobody knows, only known contact between an Altaic language and Japanese was failed Mongol invasions which didn't last long, while it is believed both Korea and Japan took some Turkic migration in time. Even then lets see how similar their grammars are:
https://youtu.be/FRMhkqovbwY?t=575
Even heavy usage of tense suffixes is EXACTLY same which makes really hard to translate them to English! How such a limited contact that we can't even be sure it actually happaned made grammar of those languages so similar? Lets even assume there was such a contact somehow, then how exactly Turkish and Japanese share so little vocabulary, if there was indeed such a heavy contact wouldn't it supposed to effect vocabulary as well same as Hebrew and Arabic?? It just doesn't make sense but if we accept those languages are coming from same origin aka in same language family only then it starts making sense. And vocabulary is almost entirely different anymore simply because Turkish and Japanese have been seperated for thousands of years. Vocabulary constantly changes with loan words, semantic change etc while grammar, the core of languages not so easily! So the real problem of Altaic defenders and anti-Altaicists they think such a seperation happened less than 2 thousand years ago and we can still find the evidence of shared vocabulary today, but in reality such a seperation might actually had happened over 3-4 thousands years ago and can't be proven entirely like other language families!! The worst of all those compared language families are a lot younger than even accepted ''two thousands years age'' of Altaic family which is completely ignored once again...
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
Noam Chomsky
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@sumrandomguy6750 Look at those ''robots'' Hyundai is really advanced they can produce human looking ''robots'' to build ships, LMAO!!
https://youtu.be/VfqFp5aXV_0
Hyundai uses welding robots to produce some parts while WORKERS are still doing vast majority of the job!! You are really something else with full of so many nonsenses..
Then you continue your nonsenses with ''The best ship builder, half of a century experience, BATTLE PROVEN ships serving navies all around the world'' while in reality Hyundai doesn't have half a century MILITARY ship building experience, it isn't definitely the best ship builder company neither rather there are many American, British, Japanese companies which have much more experience than Hyundai. And lastly Korean ships aren't battle proven more than Turkish ships nor they are used all around the world rather Korea managed to sell new ships to Thailand, Phillipines and Bangladesh alone and in total actually sold less ships than Turkey!! Still Hyundai and South Korea in general is one of best ship builder companies/countries without any question but you are literally fabricating nonsenses to somehow glorify them like ''battle proven'', care to share in which battle exactly those ships fought, in Korean war?? LMAO!!..
Then you once again continue your nonsenses and claim Turkish drone is simply ''a strike drone'' while Israeli drone is ''a medium size long range recon UAV'' but sadly you need to learn how those drones are categorized ASAP!! Both TB-2 and Hermes 900 are medium-altitude long-endurance unmanned aerial vehicles aka MALE UAVs and they both can do recon missions, laser target guidance missions and payloads to carry out attacks. Oh wait a minute, even if it's official payload is 350 kg nobody on Earth could see any armament on Hermes 900 even if it is super ''advanced'', LMAO!! And the worst of all Turkey doesn't only produce TB-2s also Anka S which is superior to Hermes 900 in every way from operation altitude to range, from cruise speed to payload and Anka S can even carry RADARS unlike Hermes but ofc Hermes is still more ''advanced'' that only God knows how exactly!! You are just one of those kids who does a terrible job of reseraching while believing every nonsense he hears like ''Advanced Israeli drones'' which is an old phrase and was indeed true in early 2000s but not anymore. And there isn't any controversy because if Israeli exports are really so advanced care to explain why exactly India is replacing their ''cutting edge'' Israeli AESA radars only few years after they bought them?? India produces better cutting edge AESA radars than Israel or Israel exports useless downgraded junks so India had to replace them??? I guess i will let you choose as you wish...
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@sumrandomguy6750 First of all i answered late on purpose because you act like our argument has any kind of meaning more than arguing military developments (Counting how many hours passed etc), you can''t be really thinking some officials will see my messages or your moronities and decide what to buy, right?? Nope, such a thing will never happen most probably nobody will even read your long but surprisingly full of nonsense messages, first you should get that ASAP..
Secondly as ALWAYS there were so many mistakes in your messages like claiming there are only four Milgem ships while in reality there are SEVEN Milgem ships now including one Istanbul class frigate with VLS, one Babur-class heavy corvette with VLS and one Ufuk class intelligence ship which all completed and launched while their acceptance tests continuing!! When Pakistan ordered those corvettes?? In 2018 and Turkey finished first one in 2021 in THREE YEARS same as South Korea even if Pakistan later changed the order and asked for a larger ship with also VLS so your ''Turkey can only build those ships in a decade'' is just another moronity!! Then you count which ships Turkey and South Korea produced but there are so many ships missing in Turkish side including FOUR different class of submarines, Milgems and even Barbaros-class frigate that two of them were built in Turkey, care to explain why exactly they are missing?? Because they were joint projects with Germany??? But then this becomes another TOTAL MORONITY because Chang Bogo class submarine
s, Sohn Wonyil class submarines and even Dosan Ahn class submarines were again joint projects with GERMANY and they are originally German Type 209, 212 and 214 submarines!! What happened, you remembered which ships were joint project for Turkey but quickly forgot about which ships were joint project for South Korea and counted them, huh??? You are such a total joke in every way possible and sadly your moronities don't even end there and you talk about how Korean ships are ''truly homegrown'' or ''independent projects'' while in reality ALL KOREAN SHIPS are using GERMAN MTU engines, AMERICAN GENERAL ELECTRIC gas turbines, AMERICAN, DUTCH, BRITISH, FRENCH armaments, systems and radars like Phalanx, Goalkeeper CIWS, SMART-L etc, in fact even Jose Rizal-class frigate uses Turkish 30mm Aselsan SMASH, LMAO!! While you can't find any foreign armament on new Turkish ships rather they all are truly homegrown however all Turkish ships uses MTU engines as well same as South Korea!! MTU has been producing engines OVER A HUNDRED YEARS and they really have unmatched experience in this sector far ahead of Turkey and South Korea. Unlike you i've never fabricated a moronity to claim Turkey or Turkish ships are better rather simply said the truth that Turkey and South Korea have very similar military ship building history, using same western technologies and their ships are actually quite similar. I have no problem with admitting im wrong neither again unlike you, for example i thought HDC-3100 was a corvette because of the articles but apparently it is not rather it is a frigate according to Hyudai's own documents and there are actually two smaller frigate types designed by Hyundai HDF-3000 and HDF-2500, and yep it is called HDF-3100 not even HDC-3100. There are only two types of corvettes designed by Hyundai HDC-1400 and HDC-500 while HDC-1400 is literally half the size of Ada class and carrying only 4 anti-ship missiles without even a single air defence system or VLS, i guess no wonder why Ada class is called ''heavy corvette'' by many experts, LMAO!! So this entire argument was built on a mistake that some ''expert'' journalists thought it was a corvette deal while in reality it was a frigate deal and Istanbul class frigate has way more armament than HDF-3100, even Barbaros-class frigate has way more armament than HDF-3100 so again your ''Korean ship is better equipped and can actually protect us against China'' argument fails miserably!! I strongly advice you to go actually do researches about those ships like i do then you wouldn't get humiliated like this and i've never intented or enjoyed humiliating you but sadly your moronities with ZERO research forced me into this path...
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
--Noam Chomsky
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
--Noam Chomsky
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@Arshahan So you didn't object to anything i wrote rather claimed Armenia had to invade Azerbaijan to protect it's Armenian population, huh?? Hmm this is oddly similar i think another country used EXACTLY same ''justification'' very recently, which country was that? RUSSIAN FEDERATION and their invasion of Ukraine to protect Russian minority living there!! Did Ukraine or any country on Earth expect russian block consider Russian invasion as legitimate?? Nope, they don't and unlike your ridiculous claim UN never ever approved Armenian invasion of Azerbaijan neither rather always repeated that it was illegal and Armenian forces must stop illegally occupying Azerbaijan. However because most international community didn't put enough pressure on Armenia they were allowed to occupy 20% of Azerbaijan for 30 years. And yep, NK is only 7% of Azerbaijan which according to you Armenia had legal ground to occupy but care to explain please in what ground Armenia could occupy remaining 13% of Azerbaijan and displace over 800,000 of them living there??? You are just so full of cheap excuses, absolutely nothing else. You also completely ignore Armenia kept arming NK Armenians for decades before soviet union collapsed,, you completely ignore there were many atrocities against Azerbaijanis not only surrounding oblasts of NK also in other regions of Armenia. For example Zengezur region had around 70% Azerbaijani population, even Armenian capital Yerevan had 40% care to explain where are those people today, huh??? You keep moronically claim Azerbaijan tried to ethnic cleanse NK while in reality Armenians are still living in NK today, on the other hand Armenia actually ethnic cleansed HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS Azerbaijanis. Such a joke you biased clowns are...
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There were several mistakes, i will briefly mention in order he made them;
1- Turkey fully recognizes Cyprus, in fact Turkey is actually one of guarantor states of Cyprus. In 1974 when extremist EOKA organization staged a coup, they didn't only try to unite with Greece also began targeting Turkish Cypriots while hundreds of them lost their lives while thousands were missing. Turkey actually demanded action from UN then from NATO, Turkish PM even went to UK and offered a joint operation to remove EOKA organization from power. But they refused, fearing their intervention might cause them to loose their base rights. So Turkey had no option but invaded the island alone, most of thousands of missing was actually in camps and EOKA members released them fearing Turkey might invade more otherwise. None of those EOKA members were arrested and faced trials for their crimes against humanity, not a single one of them. So Turkey is still on the island expecting an agreement guaranteeing safety and rights of Turkish Cypriots. There was one in 2004, an UN plan called Annan plan and Turkish side accepted it by 65% of votes while Greek side refused it by 75% claiming a neutral UN plan was gifting Cyprus to Turkey nobody knew how exactly. Cyprus issue is a lot more complex than it is told in the west and Turkey actually doesn't benefit at all from Cyprus. Northern Cyprus doesn't generate enough income to even cover their own expenses so Turkey has been paying the difference for 50 years, spending billions of dollars on top of cost of keeping such a large force on the island. Cyprus costed Turkey 30 to 50 billion dollars without any return expect Turkish Cypriots are safe ofc. I'm not biased so i will add it costed Greek Cypriots as well, they also lost at least 30 to 50 billion dollars as northern half of the island had around 70% of their GDP. While they are mostly deserted and sealed off places today.
2- Since AKP gained power in early 2000s, they began organizing themselves within the army and favoring each others. The coup attempt was done by their own men, one of the ally factions of AKP called Gülen movement. So those arrested officers were their own men, Gülen members that they placed them at first place. After such extreme failure erdogan had no choice but find a middle ground with Republican generals within the army and they did. All Republican generals who were retired early or accused of anything returned to their positions and Republican faction has been the strongest within the army since then. But they still respect civilian leadership as coups never work, there were many of them in Turkey's history and they didn't achieve a damn thing. Erdogan really gets a lot of votes and elected fairly so if it is Turkish people's choice, the army will respect it as well.
3- It is true there are 18-20 million Kurdish people in Turkey but 12-14 million of them don't live in eastern Turkey rather in western Turkey. While the biggest Kurdish city in the world isn't Sanandaj, Erbil or Diyarbakır rather ISTANBUL with 4 million Kurdish population! It is just a lie which circulates in western mainstream media that Kurds want independence, vast majority of Kurds in Turkey don't want it. In fact there are 3 million marriages between Turks and Kurds, literally nobody cares if you are Turkish or Kurdish and they are more integrated than even some minorities in the west. However some Kurdish nationalists see this great integration as the end of their nation and fights a desperate war without much support from Kurds in Turkey. This is why during their entire history they always had to retreat into Iraq or Syria and wage war from outside of Turkish borders as they never had enough support to do so inside Turkey..
4- YPG has around two thousand PKK members, even their commander Mazloum Kobani Abdi is a 'former' PKK terrorist! This isn't a secret or anything, just search his name you would see it is well-known he 'was' a PKK member and even 'had' a high rank position within the terrorist organization. NATO, mainly US and France somehow act like he and those other PKK members within YPG ranks aren't terrorists anymore while on the other hand Turkey still considers them as PKK terrorists not YPG members and called US to make YPG cut their ties with them many times before starting to launch operations against YPG. Turkey will never ever allow such an organization closely aligned with terrorists to hold serious power. US might use them for time being but no heavy weapons will be given to them, they won't become anything more than some armed militants unless they finally wise up and cut their ties with PKK. But having so many PKK members including even their commander such a thing doesn't look possible..
5- Not everything is about resources, money and gold. Here in Turkey we have a slightly different world view, we might struggle, we might stay poor but we will never ever bend the knee before any human being. This strong sense of independence makes AKP support similar independence/people movements so they can gain more support domestically and declare themselves as people's men. Turkish intervention into Libya was mostly about this that saving a people elected government to falling into their knees against a strong man supported by Russia, Egypt etc. And ofc if they can economic benefits as well it is all the better, Libya was a great success for AKP before coming elections and improved their position domestically as well. Same goes for Syria that it was completely missed in the video there are 5 million Syrian people in Turkish controlled Syrian territories and not according to Turkey rather UN! These people are in desperate need of supplies and protection and vast majority of them are anti-assadists who suffered a lot during the war. So if Turkey leaves those places and Syrian army captures them they will just run into Turkey and become refugees. Turkey can't allow such a thing and increase already 4 million Syrian refugee numbers inside Turkey to 6-7 millions. US involvements from 20,000 miles away could be entirely about benefits, interests in the region but putting Turkey into same bag is just wrong. Often Turkey has to act and involve into wars even if there are harmful in every way simply because not involving option is more harmful, so stick with two ends dirty situation. This is why Turkish public is rapidly becoming anti-western especially anti-american as our bad situation is completely ignored in the west and often even told like it is our own doing. Turkey didn't start a single war in its entire history, not a single one while there were many wars in our neighbors which all affected us badly. The worst some of those were started by own so called 'allies' against our interests and they even completely refuse to admit their wrongdoings. This is just a recipe to end alliances and the main reason why Turkey often shows the middle finger to the west anymore..
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This was mostly neutral but there were still downplaying facts and some huge mistakes, for example PKK was so wickedly attacking civilians including even Kurdish civilians the second highest casualty in this conflict after terrorists themselves isn't Turkish army, police nor civilians at all rather it is actually KURDS, civilians and especially Kurdish village guards that PKK killed thousands of them! There are hundreds of villages in southeastern Turkey alone and because the region is extremely mountainous Turkish army couldn't protect all villages constantly and Kurdish villagers were becoming easy targets for PKK raids. As a solution the government trained and armed Kurdish civilians so they could defend themselves until the army arrived. I bet some people may think ''Kurdish'' PKK and Kurdish villagers didn't fight against each others but in reality it is terrorist PKK which was seizing their assests while calling it ''tax'' and even forcefully recruiting their children! So Kurdish village guards pretty much always fought against them even if they were greatly outnumbered, while PKK simply declared them as ''traitors'' and mercilessly killed thousands of them!! Especially in 90s their violence was out of control if a Kurdish intellectual could talk against PKK would be found dead in their homes. Suicide bombing attacks in public buses, squires, markets, stations, stadiums you name it and this is the reason why literally DOZENS of countries recognize PKK as a terrorist organization as they really are terrorists!! PKK isn't committing as many terrorist attacks as before doesn't prove they magically changed like some westerners claim. Rather it is mainly because they can not smuggle both arms and themselves through Turkish-Iraqi anymore because of constant surveillance by drones. In 90s the best Turkey could do was building border outposts along the mountanious border to literally watch the border with soldiers and several dozen soldiers in a mountain peak were often becoming a target themselves..
It is true KDP asked support from even saddam but they did that out of desperation, after years of infighting they were exhausted and with great Iranian support PUK was gaining upper hand. This was also the point PKK joined PUK alliance not after KDP asked support from Iraqi government, there is a timelapse for obvious reasons! It was also completely ignored after PUK territorial gains in 1997 Turkey invaded norhern Iraq with 60,000 soldiers as PKK alliance couldn't be allowed to win the civil war and gain huge support. Instead of the truth it is told like Barzani stopped the civil war by swinging his magical wand for obvious reasons. This Turkish intervention and ending the civil war in favour of KDP was also the reason why Turkey and Barzanis have been allies since then and 15 Turkish bases were built in KDP territories started from 1998 for training Peshmerga forces and providing security.
It is also a completely a false Turkey blocked KRG's access to the world, in fact both Barzani and Talabani also many Iraqi Kurds have TURKISH diplomatic passports so they can travel through Turkey freely and ask for support from other nations. What more Turkey supposed to do than giving people diplomatic passports who aren't even Turkish citizens, huh?? Then they also completely ignored vast majority of KRG's trade travel through Turkey including 95% of their oil exports and this was the only reason KRG could survive so long. Then comes ''Turkey using PKK as an excuse to attack YPG'' nonsense, while in reality there are around TWO THOUSAND PKK terrorists in YPG's ranks, in fact even the commander of YPG is a ''former'' PKK terrorists called Mazloum Abdi! This isn't a secret or anything, just search his name you would see he is a known PKK terrorist, but no worries according to our ''trustworthy'' allies he retired being a terrorist and he is a democratic hero now!! Turkey will never ever accept this moronity, while the only way PKK terrorists can be declared innocent they will surrender and apologize to the people that they killed thousands of them. Until it happens Turkey will continue targeting them in every opportunity or YPG can cut it's ties with PKK, in fact Turkey actually asked it from US many times before starting operations against them which was ofc forgotten again! However with even it's commander being a PKK terrorist i guess it is extremely unlikely they can cut ties or could be even called seperate organizations...
PS: There aren't 30-40 million Kurdish people living Kurdistan, for example over 12 million Kurdish people out of Turkey's around 18 million Kurdish minority live in WESTERN Turkey not in Kurdistan. While the biggest Kurdish city in the world isn't Erbil, Sanadaj or Diyarbakır rather ISTANBUL with 3 million Kurdish population! They could at least research about populations properly but nope! By the way even if im a Turkish person im fully supporting a Kurdish state they suffered a lot especially in Iraq and we would rather having a border with a Kurdish state than Iraqis or Syrians. But a KURDISH state not a terrorist state, we will never ever support such a country and even fight against it's forces as long as those PKK terrorists are in charge..
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
Noam Chomsky
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@josephmatthews7698 As i said before you are so beyond ridiculous and all your points are just laughable like ''im good so all westerners are good while you hate only because of propaganda''! Because in reality all those HUNDREDS of one sided and often full of lies western ''historical'' articles are out there.
Vast majority of them completely ignore Muslim suffering or worse claim it was just Armenians trying to protect themselves by killing Muslim civilians somehow! You want to see a bogey invention? Go check out Ottoman death camps and gas chambers in Syria which in reality never existed and majority of Armenian casualties didn't even happen in Anatolia or Syria rather in CAUCASUS while they were trying to migrate into Russia empire. Yeah, Ottoman was targeting them so bad they were free to leave Syria and try to migrate into other countries, in fact the only reason Ottoman displaced them was preventing them receiving arms and supplies from Russian empire in the eastern Anatolia!! But ofc their rebellion is ''irrelevant'', Russian arms and supplies that they recieved are ''irrelevant'', their targeting of hundreds of thousands Muslim civilians is ''irrelevant'' as those are just unnecessary details while the only important thing is Christian lives targeted so it is fine literally rewriting history and i hate this wickedness only because of propaganda, right?? Seriously you must be born with rose-coloured glasses to not see why i hate this as this point of view literally puts Armenian lives as more important than Muslim lives..
And it isn't only about rewriting history neither, even today in 21st century there are so much lies and hypocrisy in western policies such as you could never stop talking about human rights, democracy, freedom of speech etc then on the other hand support cartels, warlords, dictators, literal wicked kingdoms with their princes and kings!! How does it work exactly?? How exactly you ''honest'', ''humanist'', ''democratic'' westerners could still support countries like Saudi Arabia despite their many brutal killings which includes not only that journalist rather THOUSANDS of people as Saudi Arabia continues to mass exacutions and even stoning women??? There are many times more western countries issued arms embargo on Turkey for ''democratic backsliding'' than Saudi Arabia for their brutal killings and you could still dare to talk about a bogeyman i invented in my mind!! Nope, you just need to educate yourself a little bit then you would see my rage is well justified...
Ohh lets not forget western wars to ''spread democracy'' or ''fighting terrorism'' with fake evidence which increased terrorism problem many times more and ended with AN AGREEMENT with terrorists themselves while civilians were falling off from ''mighty'' american planes!! Seriously im aware not every westerner is same and majority of you are really good people but you have been sleeping so badly and allowing your governments to do every kind of wickedness. Even then you could still ask us why we are upset which feels like a sour joke.
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@josephmatthews7698 Nope, i didn't invent a single thing nor accused you something you didn't say rather you just don't have courage to stand behind your words! You somehow claimed i invented a ''bogeyman'' because of so called ''propaganda'' while completely ignoring every wrongdoing of the west and i counted only a handful of them to point the HUGE mistake in your logic that there are indeed so many western wrongdoings therefore nobody needs propaganda to hate the west! And believe me there are a lot more out there not just a handful that i can keep it going for hours if you wish..
The problem of your kind that you sit on your comfy chairs in your warm houses and lecture us from thousands of miles distance even if you have very little knowledge about the issue, never seen consequences of western actions in the region. You didn't see a Syrian, Afghan or Iraqi running from war and suffering, perhaps not even a refugee. While here in Turkey i saw thousands of refugees, even witnessed a Syrian refugee stealing a wallet! I cornered him and wanted to beat his ass honestly but then i saw the look in his eyes, full of fear. So let him go without doing anything not even calling cops do you know why? Because i realized that old Syrian man saw far worse things than i did and chose such a path out of desperation. You have seen NOTHING AT ALL, wait until your house is bombed in the name of ''democracy'', your loved ones are killed in the name of ''freedom'' then you would finally realize what is truly radicalizing people!! And until such a day comes you have no right at all to tell us about ''bogeyman'', ''propaganda'' etc moronity, capish?? Or perhaps you would learn to listen and try to understand why we Turks are always at the wrong end with westerners but im pretty sure you aren't capable of such thing anymore. You began with ''bogeyman'' and switched to ''mental problems'' without actually listening anything at all while quite amusingly blaming me not listening...
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
-Noam Chomsky
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
Noam Chomsky
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@geofflepper3207 This what happens if you learn ''history'' from BSpedia and don't bother to fact check anything you read! Here are some historical facts for you to reduce your ignorance a bit:
1- In 1914 there were around 10 million Turks living if not less while Greek population was 6 million and Armenian population was 4.5 million. So whole ''peaceful Greeks and Armenians were targeted by Turks'' is nothing but a modern lie, they really believed they could defeat Turks and they were the ones attacking.
2- When Russian empire invaded entire eastern Anatolia in late 1914 Ottoman wasn't even controlling majority Armenian territories anymore. While Russians encouraged remaining Armenians to rebel against the empire. Read the manifesto of Kajaznuni who was the first prime minister of Armenia and living in Van province of Ottoman during WW1. He openly admits they were a Russian proxy and began preparations for their rebellion even before Ottoman joined WW1. He even adds Turks wanted to confer but they refused believing they were going to win! The side who wanted to genocide other wants to confer, care to explain how exactly that happened? To suppress their rebellion Ottoman displaced Armenian population far away from front lines with Russian empire where they were getting their arms and supplies. Even Kajaznuni himself says if they didn't rebel as a Russian proxy perhaps they weren't going to be targeted..
3- Russian empire surrendered against Germany in WW1 but not against Ottoman and there were many battles one after another even few weeks before WW1 ended. Ottoman managed to push them back from Anatolia and even cleared entire Caucasus from Russian soldiers in late 1918 only few weeks before surrendering to Brits and French. This is how all Caucasus countries could declare their independence in 1918. But ofc Entente powers invaded Anatolia from every side, they occupied Constantinople, southeastern Anatolia by Brits and French, western Anatolia by Greeks and Italians. Then they tried to force treaty of Sèvres upon Turks which still got refused by Turkish revolutionaries despite their terrible odds and war broke out in every corner of Anatolia. Like it is not enough even Armenia declared war on Turkey in 1920 for their second round but got defeated within few months and Turks ''genocided them again''..
4- Even according ENTENTE sources over 300,000 Muslim civilians got killed by so called ''harmless and peaceful'' Greeks and Armenians during those wars and their attempts to capture back their ''historical lands''. While Muslim population of Anatolia dropped from 13 million in 1914 to 10.5 million in 1922! Im not a wicked person trying to benefit suffering of his ancestors so i won't claim ridiculous genocide claims especially while there were over 500,000 military casualties at least. Spanish flu was also devastating killing hundreds of thousands, there was general lack of food, medicine and other supplies which also claimed many lives. But it is safe to say your ''genocided poor'' friends killed at least 500,000 innocent people. And if they could win the war they were going to kill way more people. So nope, we aren't genociders only because we could win the war especially while they were the ones who declared those wars not us..
So every coin has two sides learn to check other side if you want to know the truth. Especially Kurdish genocide is such a moronic claim as Kurds always has been enjoying more rights in both Ottoman and Turkey than for example African Americans had in US until recent history. Want to talk about those Jim crow laws? What about enslavement and killings of millions in western colonies? What about Aboriginal children taken away and even killed in mass in Canada or Australia until again recent history, huh?? Such wicked actions never ever happened in Anatolia not only against Kurds no ethnicity at all but somehow we have committed genocides not you ''lily-white'' westerners!! Just get lost and read some history books...
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@geofflepper3207 This what happens if you learn ''history'' from BSpedia and don't bother to fact check anything you read! Here are some historical facts for you to reduce your ignorance a bit:
1- In 1914 there were around 10 million Turks living if not less while Greek population was 6 million and Armenian population was 4.5 million. So whole ''peaceful Greeks and Armenians were targeted by Turks'' is nothing but a modern lie, they really believed they could defeat Turks and they were the ones attacking.
2- When Russian empire invaded entire eastern Anatolia in late 1914 Ottoman wasn't even controlling majority Armenian territories anymore. While Russians encouraged remaining Armenians to rebel against the empire. Read the manifesto of Kajaznuni who was the first prime minister of Armenia and living in Van province of Ottoman during WW1. He openly admits they were a Russian proxy and began preparations for their rebellion even before Ottoman joined WW1. He even adds Turks wanted to confer but they refused believing they were going to win! The side who wanted to genocide other wants to confer, care to explain how exactly that happened? To suppress their rebellion Ottoman displaced Armenian population far away from front lines with Russian empire where they were getting their arms and supplies. Even Kajaznuni himself says if they didn't rebel as a Russian proxy perhaps they weren't going to be targeted..
3- Russian empire surrendered against Germany in WW1 but not against Ottoman and there were many battles even few weeks before WW1 ended. Ottoman managed to push them back from Anatolia and even cleared entire Caucasus from Russian soldiers in late 1918 only few weeks before surrendering. This is how all Caucasus countries could declare their independence in 1918. But ofc Entente powers invaded Anatolia from every side, they occupied Constantinople, southeastern Anatolia by Brits and French, western Anatolia by Greeks and Italians. Then they tried to force treaty of Sèvres upon Turks which was still refused by Turkish revolutionaries despite their terrible odds and war broke out in every corner of Anatolia. Like it is not enough even Armenia declared war on Turkey in 1920 for their second round but got defeated within few months and ''they got genocided again''..
4- Even according ENTENTE sources over 300,000 Muslim civilians got killed by so called ''harmless and peaceful'' people during those wars and their attempts to capture back their ''historical lands''. While Muslim population of Anatolia dropped from 13 million in 1914 to 10.5 million in 1922! Im not a wicked person trying to benefit suffering of his ancestors so i won't claim ridiculous genocide claims especially while there were over 500,000 military casualties at least. Spanish flu was also devastating killing hundreds of thousands, there was general lack of food, medicine and other supplies which also claimed many lives. But it is safe to say your ''genocided poor friends'' killed at least 500,000 innocent people. And if they could win the war they were going to kill way more people. So nope, we aren't genociders only because we could win the war especially while they were the ones who declared those wars not us!! It is so beyond ridiculous while we were the defensive side westerners could even act like we were the aggressors and not thinking sheeps blindly follow the narrative like you..
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@geofflepper3207 This what happens if you learn ''history'' from BSpedia and don't bother to fact check anything you read! Here are some historical facts for you to reduce your ignorance a bit:
1- In 1914 there were around 10 million Turks living if not less while Greekpopulation was 6 million and Armenianpopulation was 4.5 million. So whole ''peaceful people were targeted by Turks'' is nothing but a modern lie, they really believed they could defeat Turks and they were the ones attacking.
2- When Russian empire invaded entire eastern Anatolia in late 1914 Ottoman wasn't even controlling majority Armenian territories anymore. While Russians encouraged remaining Armenians to rebel against the empire. Read the manifesto of Kajaznuni who was the first prime minister of Armenia and living in Van province of Ottoman during WW1. He openly admits they were a Russian proxy and began preparations for their rebellion even before Ottoman joined WW1. He even adds Turks wanted to confer but they refused believing they were going to win! The side who wanted to genocide other wants to confer, care to explain why? To suppress their rebellion Ottoman displaced them far away from front lines with Russian empire where they were getting their arms and supplies from. Even Kajaznuni himself says if they didn't rebel as a Russian proxy perhaps they weren't going to be targeted..
3- Russian empire surrendered against Germany in WW1 but not against Ottoman and there were many battles even few weeks before WW1 ended. Ottoman managed to push them back from Anatolia and even cleared entire Caucasus from Russian soldiers in late 1918 only few weeks before surrendering. This is how all Caucasus countries could declare their independence in 1918. But ofc Entente powers invaded Anatolia from every side, they occupied Constantinople, southeastern Anatolia by Brits and French, western Anatolia by Greeks and Italians. Then they tried to force treaty of Sèvres which was still refused by Turkish revolutionaries despite their terrible odds and war broke out in every corner of Anatolia. Like it is not enough even Armenia declared war in 1920 for their second round but got defeated within few months and ''they got genocided again''..
4- Even according ENTENTE sources over 300,000 Muslim civilians got killed by so called ''harmless and peaceful'' people during those wars and their attempts to capture back their ''historical lands''. While Muslim population of Anatolia dropped from 13 million in 1914 to 10.5 million in 1922! Im not a wicked person trying to benefit from suffering so i won't throw ridiculous claims around some others do especially while there were over 500,000 military casualties at least. Spanish flu was also devastating killing hundreds of thousands, there was general lack of food, medicine and other supplies which also claimed many lives. But it is safe to say your ''genocided poor friends'' killed at least 500,000 innocent people. And if they could win the war they were going to kill way more people. So nope, we aren't genociders only because we could win the war especially while they were the ones who declared those wars not us!! It is so beyond ridiculous while we were the defensive side westerner narrative could even claim we were the aggressors and not thinking sheeps blindly follow the narrative like you..
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@chrisiezekiel8249 It is really amusing you claim ''im embarassing myself because of my poor knowledge'' while in reality you didn't object pretty much anything i said rather trying to twisting the argument for only showing like Turkish side is worse than Greek side but don't worry i will look into all of them one by one that lets start with EOKA and EOKA-B difference you couldn't explain properly..
1) EOKA and EOKA-B difference:
Greek officer George Grivas (He remained as a part of Greek army for his entire life not Cypriot National Guard at all) established both EOKA and EOKA-B and around ten thousand people joined EOKA-B that vast majority of them were ''ex'' EOKA members, in fact EOKA attacked Turkish Cypriots during their war against UK as well!! Then care to explain how exactly those groups are different while same people operated them and they attacked Turkish Cypriots for decades, huh??? Yeah right, they added ''B'' so they were different for sure, classic Greek ''logic''!! Lets even assume they are different groups somehow then why exactly Cyprus didn't arrest any of those EOKA-''B'' terrorists even if they killed thousands of innocent people, huh??? They even killed dozens of Greek Cypriots and even tried to assassinate Makarios but nope, even then they weren't arrested while you could still defend them very wickedly..
2) Why only Turkey recognized Northern Cyprus:
Sadly you don't know much about international laws as for the international recognization there must be an international agreement between sides and there are still many unrecognized countries today because of this such as Republic of Artsakh which is still considered as a part of Azerbaijan or Crimea as a part of Ukraine etc so this doesn't prove Turkey is wrong what so ever rather only shows there is no agreement yet as Greek Cypriots are refusing everything down like 2004 Annan plan which was a very fair UN plan and Turkish side accepted it by 65% while Greek side refused it by 75% but ofc not a single word about it from you ''very honest'' person..
3) Greek side protects Turkish properties while Turkish side is destroying Greek ones:
Here look at these hundreds of vehicles which were belong to Turkish Cypriots and Cyprus protected those vehicles very well in last 40 years that their windows, doors are broken, engines and parts stolen, some are burned and others are vandalized, wow im in tears such a good care:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mp7WATL8dY
And now they are trying to give them back to their owners after they worth absolutely nothing anymore which is why they couldn't find a single owner so far, what a ''surprise''!! It is just a laughable joke claiming Cyprus protects properties of Turkish Cypriots, nothing else...
4) 1619 missing people:
Last time i checked there were 1057 missing Greek Cypriots that i wonder how exactly the number became 1619?? Perhaps you are added that number Turkish Cypriots as well to make them look more, huh??? As there are also 803 missing Turkish Cypriots who got killed by EOKA terrorists and even Cypriot National Guard but ofc you ''very honest'' person completely ignore Greek war crimes somehow and act like only Turkish side committed them for obvious reasons again!! As long as you people can't admit the fact Cyprus got divided not because of Turkish Cypriots nor Turkey what so ever rather because of EOKA terrorists, their nationalist ideology like enosis and their countless atrocities against Turkish Cypriots there will never be a reunification simply because it would mean Turkish Cypriots would face discriminations and atrocities again same as before but ofc you ''very honest'' people don't care what happens to Turkish Cypriots at all which is why you just want Turkey out of Cyprus rather than an agreement with Turkish Cypriots!! But bite a bullet as such a thing will never happen...
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
Noam Chomsky
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
-Noam Chomsky
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@SoundsSilver 5- ''only some 13,000 Turks died in combat in the entire Turkish War of Independence, so your figures are greatly exaggerated,''
Nope, rather you should stop using BSpedia as a source as it lacks information very badly and full of political nonsenses!! So in reality Turkish casualties were 37,975 killed, 28,052 diseases and cold,
31,173 wounded which includes irregular troops who were defending against Greek invasion alone until the regular Turkish army defeated British, French and Armenian forces in the east and all Turksih forces united against Greek army in the west!! But even then Greek army had numerical superiority from size to guns etc, such as here is the last battle of Turkish war of independence:
Battle of Dumlupınar in 1922
Turkish side:
98,670 infantry
5,286 cavalry
323 artillery
0 (Zero) reserve
Greek side:
130,000 infantry
1,300 cavalry
348 artillery
70,000 reserve
Greek side also had more machine guns, ammunations, trucks, supplies, planes etc and they were positioned very well in a valley between two mountains and many hills. Even so Ataturk decided to attack from the mountain to the south of Greek trenches due Greeks were very lightly defending that mountain as they thought an assault from there wasn't possible!! 2 infantry divisions and 1 cavalry division were going to join flanking operation and going to penetrate through greek army according to spearhead doctrine while capturing a series of hills in the valley and eventually cut the Greek army into 4 pieces!!! So majority of Turkish soldiers climbed the mountain in the last night to avoid detection by Greek planes and charged with first lights. Cavalry division successfully penetrated through Greek lines and completely destroyed communication and supplies lines in 20 km behind the Greek army. They also damaged the Greek moral greatly due when reserve forces saw Turkish cavalry so behind their lines they naively thought their front lines were fallen while in reality the engagement just began and they started to retreat due they couldn't also communicate with their command!! On the other hand Turkish infantry had serious trouble penetrating through Greek army for obvious reasons, first many of them were already tired because they climbed the mountain few hours ago and using infantry as spearheads in rough terrain was a little extreme even for a military genius like Ataturk even so infantry divisions penetrated most of greek army and captured a series of hills while Greek army was using a little gap left in northern side of the valley to retreat!! Then cavalry division who were behind Greek lines learned about the gap, charged upon retreating Greeks and encircled them!! So more than half of Greek army got encircled between mountains and Turkish soldiers in the first day of battle, they fought only 3 more days then surrendered. At the end the offensive only lasted 4 days, greek casualties were more than 50% while Turkish side only lost 10%!! Greeks could never reorganize in Anatolia again and retreated to the ports very irregularly while attacking Turkish civilians and burning Turkish villages and cities including even Smyrna because they couldn't stomach that their 3 years long campaign ended within only 4 days that you can read about these atrocities as well in the academic writing i shared..
6- ''Paris into a city of rubble would serve no purpose in the defense of France but to shed yet greater (primarily French) blood, destroy their culture, and invite greater hostility from their invaders.''/''to assume any power behaves in any way other than a purely selfish one''
You claim im writing with the advantage of hindsight while in reality YOU are the one who is doing that due you are trying to use relatively low French civilians and military casualties to justify their surrender while in reality there was ABSOLUTELY no guarantee Germans weren't going to act in France same as in Poland!!! You claim every nation is acting selfish then why other countries kept fighting against Germany?? Why US landed on France and liberated France while loosing hundreds of thousands people instead of French people??? According to your logic they should had just let Germany control France out of selfish objectives and soon or later Germans were going to colonize France exactly same as how France tried to colonize Algeria then i wonder what you were going to claim??? In fact even if you wrongly claimed ''France protected it's culture'' etc but i reality German forces literally plundered French cities and stole thousands of art pieces and allies bombed EXACTLY 1570 French towns and cities so their surrender didn't save a damn thing which is why we are claiming it was very wrong!! And you need to read my messages again due i never ever said French people were cowards, in fact some French people kept fighting rather i said their surrender was cowardness and they did that because a lack of will to defend their country which is completely true without any question that you can also see it if you could remove your rose-coloured glasses for a second!!! But ofc instead of trying to think objective rather you are blaiming me for trying to defame France while in reality why would i care about France??? I just like reading and arguing history but clearly you don't have such a hobby...
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@erios5057 If i summarize Kurdish side, after rebels split in 2014 as isis (mostly foreigners), FSA (moderate Syrian rebels), al nusra (radical mostly Syrian rebels) they all began fighting each others. The government used this opportunity to recover and slowly gained power. Ofc isis came out victorious in this infighting and began spreading its territories. In 2015 they began attacking northern Syria where both Kurds and Turkmens living while the west ditched rebels and began supporting Kurds at this point. Back then there was peace talks ongoing with PKK and Turkey so Turkey gave them green light and even allowed thousands of Peshmerga forces and PKK members traveling into Syria through Turkey. After isis was repelled Peshmerga forces returned to Iraq but PKK never left, even today there are 2-4 thousand PKK members in YPG ranks. Unfortunately peace talks collapsed in late 2015 and PKK and Turkey began fighting again. While instead of forcing PKK to leave Syria the west began acting like they didn't exist after a simple merge and name change to SDF. Ofc Turkey didn't accept this and began heavily arming Turkmen groups, kinda forming its own milita force inside Syria. Russia didn't like this and began bombing this force and this is why Turkey shot down a Russian fighter in late 2015 that they could not target Turkmen groups. In 2016 Turkey launched its own offensive against isis and pushed them away from Turkish border with Turkmen groups. From this point Turkey adopted FSA and began training and arming them, they were in a bad shape almost eliminated entirely, later on formed SNA from them. On the other hand the government was heavily fighting against isis too especially around Palmyra which changed hands many times and perhaps had the highest casualties in the war. So when SDF launched its great offensive against isis in east Syria, they were engaged from north to south and fighting against everybody. It is just a western propaganda US with SDF defeated isis, they helped for sure but even if they remained in the north and did nothing isis was still going to be defeated. Turkey continued trying to force YPG to expel PKK members but it didn't work, even the commander of SDF, Mazloum Abdi is a 'former' PKK member. So it launched an operation against YPG in 2018, shortly after US announcing they would form an army from SDF, ofc after Turkish operation US ditched those plans. Later on Turkey demanded SDF to allow Syrians to return Raqqa which was refused for 'security risks' and Turkey launched its second offensive against YPG in 2020. Even if the west protested a lot they couldn't do anything to stop Turkey so YPG began allying themselves to Russia and the government instead. There are Russian bases all over their territory including even some areas there are US bases. This led to Trump annoucing they would leave Syria but later on he ditched this plan when YPG threatened to release isis members They are shown like 'democratic' but in reality they are allying themselves to everybody nor they ever held an election in their entire history. You can also find UN resolutions accusing them for recruiting children, they promised to stop but as far as i know it still continues today. To be honest they are just a proxy against iran for US that US acts like supporting democratic people for legitimacy and political support..
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@erios5057 If i summarize Kurdish side, in 2015 isis began attacking northern Syria where both Kurds and Turkmens living while the west ditched rebels and began supporting Kurds at this point. Back then there was peace talks ongoing with PKK so Turkey gave them green light and even allowed thousands of Peshmerga forces and PKK members traveling into Syria through Turkey. After isis was repelled Peshmerga forces returned to Iraq but PKK never left, even today there are 2-4 thousand PKK members in YPG ranks. Unfortunately peace talks collapsed in late 2015 and PKK and Turkey began fighting again. While instead of forcing PKK to leave Syria the west began acting like they didn't exist after a simple merge and name change. Ofc Turkey didn't accept this and began heavily arming Turkmen groups, forming its own proxy inside Syria. Russia didn't like this and began bombing this force and this is why Turkey shot down a Russian fighter in late 2015 that they could not target Turkmen groups. In 2016 Turkey launched its own offensive against isis and pushed them away from Turkish border with Turkmen groups. From this point Turkey adopted FSA and began training and arming them, later on formed SNA from them. On the other hand the government was heavily fighting against isis too especially around Palmyra which changed hands many times. So when SDF launched its great offensive against isis in east Syria, they were engaged from north to south and fighting against everybody. It is just false US with SDF defeated isis, they helped for sure but even if they remained in the north and did nothing isis was still going to be defeated. Turkey continued trying to force YPG to expel PKK members but it didn't work, perhaps because even the commander of SDF, Mazloum Abdi is a 'former' PKK member. So it launched an operation against YPG in 2018, shortly after US announcing they would form an army from SDF and those plans were ditched. Later on Turkey demanded SDF to allow Syrians to return into Raqqa which was refused for 'security risks' and Turkey launched its second offensive against YPG in 2020. Even if the west protested a lot they couldn't do anything to stop the operation so YPG began allying themselves to Russia and the government instead. There are Russian bases all over their territory including even some areas there are US bases. This led to Trump annoucing they would leave Syria but later on he ditched this plan when YPG threatened to release prisoners. They are shown like 'democratic' but in reality they are allying themselves to everybody nor they ever held an election in their entire history. You can also find UN accusing them for recruiting children, they promised to stop but as far as i know it still continues today. To be honest they are just a proxy against iran that US acts like supporting democratic people for legitimacy and political support..
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
--Noam Chomsky
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
--Noam Chomsky
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@anastasiagazi8246 Your message is so ridiculous due you claim it explains something while in reality there is nothing solid in it at all rather only empty claims or even lies!! Such as you claim ''far-right'' aka terrorist ideology in Cyprus doesn't exist anymore while in reality none of those EOKA-B terroristswere arrested even if they killed both Turkish and Greek Cypriots and they still walk freely on the streets of Cyprus even today so care to explain why they weren't punished in any way if ''far-right'' ideology does not exist anymore??? Another major point which directly proves that terrorist ideology still exists is Annan plan referendum in 2004 where Turkish side which ''keeps the island divided and illegally occupies it'' accepted it by 65% while ''liberal'' Greek side refused it by 75%!! So it literally proves Greek Cypriots still don't want to live with Turkish Cypriots because of their ''far-right'' nationalist feelings. And you are literally lying by saying ''Greece never supported those ''far-right'' terrorists'' due their leader Georgios Grivas was actually a Greek commander who fought in Turkey between 1919-1922 and he remained as a part of Greek army for his entire life, even took control of Greek divisions on Cyprus between 1964 and 1967!! But after they killed 27 Turkish Cypriots while ''providing security to a village'' Turkey gave an ultimatom and Greek division was called back to Greece along with it's commander Georgios Grivas!! Which are very well known thanks to the British reports of the incidents but even then you people could try to refuse it, what a disgusting shame..
Your points became even more ridiculous somehow about the issue of demilitarized status due you literally claimed ''treaty of lausanne is invalid anymore'' while in reality what do you think gives Greece sovereignty over thousands of islands, islets and rocks in Aegean? There are Greeks living on them?? Nope, only 140 islands are inhabited!! Those were belong to ancient Greeks for thousands of years??? Just, LMAO!! Only Treaty of Lausanne grants Greece sovereignty over those islands which means if it is invalid anymore Turkey can claim sovereignty over thousands of uninhabited islands, islets and rocks in Aegean as vast majority of them are the natural prolongation of the Anatolian peninsula not Greek mainland at all!! So while you think you are getting an upper hand by violating treaty of lausanne actually you are openning the way for Turkey claiming half of Aegean which is why it is so ridiculous and moronic...
Here is a very long article FROM US about the subject which mentions every single agreement, previous arguments, international laws and even several similar disputes from other countries and it says Turkey can really claim Aegean islands, increase it's territorial waters even if it is cutting off some Greek islands and the best solution for Greece would be a partial increase agreement with Turkey!!! Read it fully and learn some international laws please and perhaps after that you would be able to see some reason:
''Prime-Minister Andreas Papandreau said on April 7, 1985: “Did we violate the Lausanne Treaty by militarizing the islands? Yes we did.” ''
''When Greece increased its territorial sea claim in 1936 from three to six nautical miles, the United Kingdom objected, but Turkey did not. Greece and Turkey were on friendly terms at that time, and were being threatened by Italy, and some ideas were being exchanged regarding the possibility of the formation of a confederation. When Turkey extended its Aegean territorial sea to six nautical miles in 1964, Greece objected, arguing that this extension interfered with Greek fishing practices.''
''Article 15 of the Law of the Sea Convention, supra note 28, reads as follows:
Where the coasts of two States are opposite or adjacent to each other, neither of the two States is entitled, failing agreement between them to the contrary, to extend its territorial sea beyond the median line every point of which is equidistant from the nearest points on the baselines from which the breadth of the territorial seas of each of the two States is measured. The above provision does not apply, however, where it is necessary by reason of historic title or other special circumstances to delimit the territorial seas of the two States in a way which is at variance therewith.''
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00908320590909088
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@EaizePeazy First of all because you completely changed the topic from Sweden's value to Turkey i guess you also agree my statement! Secondly it was quite amusing to read a nation with extremely brutal and bloody history lecturing us, Vikings killed and enslaved more people in 100 years than entire Turkish history and established your countries upon those atrocities!! But i guess you forgot who you are and could act like you are cradle of humanism somehow. Our biggest disagreement with so called ''humanist'' Europeans that you are murderers who became rich by killing, enslaving and stealing. And you Viking descendance aren't even among the worst nations in Europe despite raiding entire Europe for hundreds of years as British, Spanish, Portugese, German, Belgian, French, Russian committed far worse crimes..
What was the last one? Ohh yeah Russians who committed genocides from Circassia to Crimea, from Kazakhstan to Siberia and they are committing a new one in Ukraine today and that's the entire reason you want NATO protection. But even then you could dare to claim they were the ones who ''protected'' Armenians and ''condemned crimes against humanity'' first time in 1915. As i said in my first message you are CLUELESS about history, first of all Russian civil war didn't begin in 1915, there were no white Russians in 1915 rather Russian civil war began in 1917 so what you claimed can't be true at all!! Here let me teach more history since we already began. Armenians revolted against Ottoman in 1914 as a Russian proxy, believing Ottoman was about to collapse. They were armed and supplied by Russian empire which also invaded entire eastern Turkey at the end of 1914 which included ALL Armenian majority territories so Ottoman didn't even control vast majority of Armenians when they were ''genocided''. But nope it wasn't enough rather Armenians needed to have their ''historical lands'' which were Muslim majority for centuries. So they began targeting not only Ottoman forces also Turkish civilians in order to displace them elsewhere. According to ENTENTE sources at least 300,000 Turkish civilians were killed during the time. But unlike their belief Ottoman was no where near collapsing and stopped their rebellion by displacing Armenian population to Lebanon and Syria so Russian empire couldn't continue arming and supplying them. Some of them resettled into those countries while majority of Armenians migrated into Russian empire over Caucasus mountains where a lot of them died because of winter conditions and lack of supplies. It is really a sad incident for sure but this doesn't make it a genocide simply because Ottoman targeted them because of their rebellion not their etnicity nor religion that genocide definition demands to be the reason!! You can read the manifesto of Hovhannes Katchaznouni first PM of Armenia where he openly admits they revolted as a Russian proxy and even dares to say if they didn't revolt Ottoman wasn't going to target them. To be fair he also claims they didn't want to claim such a massive Armenia that most of it was Turkish majority anymore but first Russian empire then US forced them to do so in order to accept them as their mandate. Even if it is true it doesn't change anything, you don't make your neighbours your enemies while believing some foreign powers would protect you. It is an eye opening manifesto you ''humanist'' should read it and learn some true history.
About Kurds, im not a nationalist nor islamist we did a lot mistakes about our Kurdish minority especially about Kurdish language like it was forbidden to use other languages than Turkish for publishing books or operating radio and TV channels which discriminated against them. But we didn't collect their children to assimilate like Canada or Australia did to it's minorities! We didn't have anti-Kurdish laws which made them second class citizens such as anti-Black laws in USA or South Africa!! Every single Kurd is full and equal citizen of Turkey since 1923 and govenrment doesn't even know who is Kurdish or Turkish simply because there is no ethnic recording in Turkey. So it is very bold and ignorant of you to claim ''Kurds are genocided'', in fact Turkish army is actually 20% Kurdish force as every male citizen of Turkey has to do their mandatory military service. Then according to your claim those Kurds in Turkish army are genociding themselves, huh? Let me teach you another fact and reduce your ignorance a little bit, nobody in the region calls that Syrian group we are targeting just ''Kurds'', they are called YPG a Syrian branch of PKK which waged war against Turkey for decades. In this war do you know who has second highest casualty after terrorists themselves?? Ofc you don't know otherwise you wouldn't support terrorists at first place. It is KURDISH VILLAGE GUARDS, there are thousands of villages in eastern Turkey alone and the army couldn't protect them all constantly in 80 and 90s. So the government armed Kurdish villagers therefore they could protect themselves until the army arrived. Im sure you would expect Kurdish villagers and ''Kurdish'' PKK didn't fight against each others but you couldn't be more wrong. It is called terrorist PKK who was seizing their assets and even forcefully recruiting children so they pretty much always fought against PKK even if they were greatly outnumbered! While PKK simply declared them as ''traitors'' and mercilessly killed thousands of them!! Here is your ''freedom fighters'' and ''Kurdish genocide'', this is also reason why millions of Turkish Kurds in Turkish army are mercilessly attacking them as well because unlike you they know those are really terrorists who killed thousands of innocent Kurdish people...
I hope you learned something and reduced your insane ignorance a little bit, not that it doesn't matter much. We Turks are one side while you Europeans are another side we will be never ever same. But we honour our agrements unlike those cheeky russky bastards, stop supporting terrorists then Turkey would defend Sweden while no pressure can ever change it.
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It always surprises me how easily ''humanist'' and ''democratic'' west justifies supporting warlords, dictators, kings or princes if their interests demand it! Tobruk government was killing and destroying Libyan people elected government for years with foreign support like Sudanese, Egyptian and Russian mercenaries and weapons. And no western country did a damn thing to stop it, some of them were even openly supporting warlord haftar like France even if Russia also has been supporting Tobruk. Then when Turkey finally intervened and saved a democratically elected government, also finally enforcing a ceasefire after years of fighting suddenly it became ''a huge problem'' and some western countries even tried to block Turkish support to UN recognized GNA government like what the actual fuck?! If French and German navy didn't back down Turkish frigates were literally open fire on them especially in the case of German piracy, they had no right to stop a Turkish ship in international waters and search it illegally. Some might claim it is too aggressive but Turkey has every right to target pirates regardless what flag they are flying..
It is just a ridiculous joke that Turkey needs Libya to back it's claims in Mediterranean, it is not at all. Turkey didn't sign UNCLOS and it is not binding between Greece and Turkey while UNCLOS wasn't the only UN sea laws convention rather there were more of them before which were signed by both Turkey and Greece. So those previous conventions are binding and Turkey can literally ignore all Greek islands even in Aegean not just Mediterranean 100% according to international laws while only has to leave 12 nmiles EEZ for the islands. Also there is absolutely NOTHING found yet in the disputed area so claiming it was for ''billions of dollars'' is just nothing but another laughable claim! Turkey can not and will not allow Greece to use tiny islands that you need magnifying glass to see on a map and with only few hundred population to reduce EEZ of 80 million people regardless there are resources or not. It is also exactly same in the entire world, for example British islands next to France have both reduced territorial waters and EEZ, French islands next to Canada have reduced EEZ, Finnish islands next to Sweden have both reduced waters and EEZ, Spanish islands next to Morocco have both reduced waters and EEZ. But only God knows how exactly Greek islands next to Turkey must have full 12 miles territorial waters and full 200 nmiles EEZ, right?! They will need a war and also a victory to achive it for sure.
The fighting in Libya didn't stop because GNA forces couldn't defeat haftar forces, again completely false information. It stopped because russkies sent two squadrons into Libya, actual fucking russian air force! It created a dilemma for GNA side as they had no air force to speak off and Turkey could send some F-16s to Libya but Libyan bases were in terrible shape and Libya is too far away for air refueling operations. Those russian squadrons could not target Turkish forces but they could shoot down Turkish drones and freely bomb GNA forces while russkies could also send more of them. It is often overlooked in the west for obvious reasons but Turkish backed GNA killed HUNDREDS of wagner mercenaries in Libya and they were willing to further increase their presence. So instead of escalating the war sides signed a ceasefire agreement under Turkish and russky supervision..
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There were several big mistakes about Ataturk reforms, first of all it wasn't even done by Ataturk rather Turkish grand national assembly. It had islamists, republicans, secularists, communists you name it. And this was one of main reasons why Soviets thought Turkey could be an ally for them and supported Turkish war of independence. However the country was in mess and quick reforms were needed, so Swiss constitution was chosen as a template and altered according to Turkish people's needs. Turkish version even has socialist laws unlike Swiss version.
At first the grand national assembly didn't want to abolish Ottoman caliphate so it remained even after Ottoman as an empire was abolished. However soon problems began emerging as the caliphate was still acting like it was an empire, hosting foreign leaders in İstanbul etc and its demanded budget was massive. So the assembly realized this wasn't going to work and abolished the caliphate as well, two years later than the empire. However there was strong believe in the assembly they could not just abolish an Islamic instution as they wished so they established "Diyanet işleri" in same day. Diyanet işleri is essentially a caliphate, they give fatwas, all Mosques and Imams in Turkey are a part of them and they elect their own leaders from Islamic scholars. The only difference they don't have any political power, even today Diyanet işleri is working exactly same as it was established 100 years ago and Turkey isn't a secular country same as France or US at all. Simply because Turkey actually has an official government instution organizing religious affairs, you can not operate a Mosque apart from Diyanet işleri in Turkey like you can do in France or US. So i have absolutely no idea where he could learn Turkey copied French secularism, that's entirely false.
Same goes for banning women wearing scarves, that happened decades later than Ataturk died! Ataturk always aimed to unite everybody in Turkey including islamists too and tried to implement a multi-party system not once but rather twice. But both attempts failed as there were severe arguments, after his death ruling party CHP began simply oppressing islamic community with such bans and completely expelled them from the government. Later when right wing parties could win elections they began doing same to left wing this time. This is one of main reasons why there are still problems between islamic and republican populations within Turkey. As everybody claims they were a victim and when laws changing they weren't presented.
Alphabet change had nothing to do with religion. There are many Turkish sounds which are impossible to write with Arabic alphabet, in fact this was whole reason why Ottoman literature adopted many words from Persian and Arabic to replace those Turkish words which couldn't be written correctly. So the new government had two options either alter Arabic alphabet and make it usable for Turkish or choose another alphabet instead. Altering Arabic alphabet wasn't popular as it was going to be seen as anti-islamic. So Latin alphabet was chosen, even Latin was heavily altered to properly write Turkish language many letters were removed and new ones added.
Yeah, Turkish mosques in other countries are operated by again Diyanet işleri. It is pretty much like a modern Catholic church, nobody can operate Mosques but them. He knew this but still claimed Turkey copied French secularism? I'm sorry but there is clear propaganda purposes here or they did a poor research. Even Turkish government can not allow other organizations to operate Mosques rather it is stated only Diyanet işleri can do that in Turkish constitution. Again Turkish government has very little power to dictate what they do, they select their own leaders, decide their own fatwas and organize Islamic beliefs as they see fit. But it is true erdogan government has great influence over Diyanet işleri and they support him..
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@petteral94 Seriously your history knowledge is very very limited as you don't even know Ottoman ruled with Millet system which separated communities according to their religions such as Turks were a part of Muslim Millet and considered as equals to all Muslims, Arabs etc!! While Christians were separated as Orthodox, Catholic and Eastern Orthodox (Armenian) Millets and they were governing themselves under Millet system, freely issuing their own laws etc while only Muslim Millet was under direct control of Ottoman Caliphate but ofc Christian Millets had to pay higher taxes in return!! This is how Ottoman could control millions of Christians and Muslims for more than 500 years without any serious rebellion even if Turks were always a minority in the empire and this is the reason how Christians stayed as Christians in Ottoman empire while in other parts of the world millions were forcefully converted such as do you know what happened to Muslims in Iberian peninsula after Christians captured it in 16th century??? Christians forced them all to convert to Christianity and refusing ones got killed or enslaved!! Compared to that Ottoman was far far better and those people weren't only allowed to live freely they could also join the Ottoman government as there were countless non-Muslims and non-Turkish officials in Ottoman governments and armies but things changed ofc with the french revolution in 19th century which spread nationalism all over the world so having a religious identity wasn't enough for Ottoman minorities anymore rather they wanted national identities, their own countries and rebellions started to happen all around the empire such as in Balkans and even in Egypt that Ottoman indeed tried to supress those rebellions very hard same as all empires in the world and after that point Ottoman wasn't much better than colonial empires but even then Ottoman never ever tried to convert them to Islam nor targeted any spesific nation rather Ottoman was against all nationalist ideas in order to protect the old religious Millet system which was working for centuries therefore Ottoman was even against the Turkish nationalism!! Which is why extreme Turkish nationalists aka young turks had to stage a coup in 1909 to take control of Ottoman government and remove Sultan Abdulhamit who was also against nationalist ideas but this weakaned the empire even more as non-Turkish Ottoman generals and government officials turned against the empire and one after another Ottoman lost wars, in fact it was constant wars between 1911 and 1918 that Ottoman lost all of them expect the second balkan war. So after you took a short lesson of history could you please explain why Turks who let Armenians to live freely in Turkish empires from 1071 to 1914 for exactly 843 years suddenly decided to genocide them all?? Perhaps nobody decided to genocide them rather replace them so they couldn't attack Turkish civilians??? If we really wanted to make Anatolia Turkish we could do that centuries ago especially while Ottoman was literally invincible during 15-16th centuries!! And those young turks had nothing to do with the establishment of Turkey due those people were pro-Ottoman and they were trying to save Ottoman by modernizing it therefore they stayed in Istanbul when the Turkish war independence began in Anatolia and even worked against it...
Also your ''much better historic record'' claim is just laughable and shows you didn't read it due there are dozens of sources in that academic writing and it even talks about official investigations that USA and Allied powers started in Anatolia which reported that armenians and greeks were indeed attacking Turkish civilians and Allied powers stopped supporting Greece in 1921 as they knew after these disgusting crimes against Turkish civilians we were never going to sign a peace deal with them so they tried to get a deal by ditching Greece but we didn't accept that deal neither!! Your ''massacred them, forcing the remaining Greeks to flee'' nonsense also shows how little you know about history as Turkey and Greece exchanged populations in 1923 according to the treaty of lausanne that Turkey sent 1.5 million Greeks and Greece sent 500,000 Turks so nobody was forced to flee!! But i guess because im a Turk you always think im biased and trying to defend my nation or something then here is a Greek author who actually defends armenian genocide happened but he is honorable enough to admit Turkish genocide also happened and Greeks and Armenians killed hundreds of thousands Turkish civilians:
https://neoskosmos.com/en/23903/recognising-genocide-part-four/
But sadly western media isn't honorable in any level so they completely ignore this fact rather act like Turks attacked ''innocent'' people so those greeks and armenians who cry as genocide would get more sympathy as we can cleary see in your way of thinking!! These atrocities of them are no secret due just search as ''Greek atrocities in Balkans or Anatolia'' or ''Armenian atrocities in Anatolia'' you would find hundreds of articles about them but as i said before you can't find these facts mentioned in wicked western media that they also fabricated this ''Turks also did Assyrian genocide'' lie while in reality during WW1 Ottoman left entire eastern Turkey to the control of Kurdish militia while Ottoman armies were fighitng in Iraq, Palestine, Arabia, Caucasus etc so i think you can cleary decide who did that genocide Ottoman armies who were hundreds of km away or Kurdish militia who started to control pretty much an autonomous region while Ottoman became extremely weak...
''the Armenian resistance where too weak to carry out such a massacre''
sadly this shows again that you don't know much about the actual history due there were dozens of cities under Armenian-British-Russian control during WW1 from Turkish cities in Turkey to Azerbaijani Turkish cities in Azerbaijan and Iran so there were Armenian armies in Turkey not only some resistance and those Turkish cities stayed under their control for years until late 1918 when Ottoman launched a full offensive to capture and liberate them all including the cities in Azerbaijan and even Iran!! In 1918 everybody was aware that Ottoman was going to loose the war and Ottoman couldn't keep those cities at all but Allied powers were planning to establish a great Armenia there, in fact they were even planning to add Baku (The capital of Azerbaijan) to Armenia so Armenians were doing countless atrocities such as March genocide to clear Azerbaijani Turks from the region so Turkish armies marched into Caucasus regardless the overall war was already lost:
https://duyguadem.files.wordpress.com/2019/05/ofensiva_turca_de_1918_en_el_caucaso.png
It is very easy to picture as bad guys today as we kept controlling Anatolia and there are 80 million Turks against 10 million Greeks and 3 + 7 million Armenians today but it wasn't same in 1914 as there were 10 million Turks against 6 million Greeks and 4.5 million Armenians!! So Allied powers really believed they could annex Turkish majority cities into Greece and Armenia and they really had a chance indeed but ofc they miscalculated our will to fight very badly therefore miserably failed!! Which is the actual thing that westerners can't stomach that an Eastern power defeated them and kept Anatolia and even some parts of Europe which belonged to westerners once!! If they could actually take Anatolia from us there wasn't going to be such a thing called ''armenian genocide'' today due there are actually 7 million Armenians living in Europe and US etc today who are mostly descendants of Ottoman Armenians that were forced to migrate into Syria and Lebanon and after those places became western mandates they migrated to western countries but not all left as there are still several million Armenians in Syria and Lebanon!! But we Turks can't do anything properly i guess so there are so many survives of a ''genocide'' today!! You ''humanist'' westerners have absolutely no right to demand anything from us Turks until you recognize actual genocides like Turkish genocide, Native American genocide, Aztec genocide, African genocides, Algerian genocide etc etc then we would happily recognize our atrocities...
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
Noam Chomsky
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
-Noam Chomsky
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
Noam Chomsky
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
--Noam Chomsky
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
Noam Chomsky
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
-Noam Chomsky
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
--Noam Chomsky
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Russia is no threat to us, if the west properly supported us we could also end Syrian civil war 5-6 years ago despite their forces. Russians themselves also know we don't consider them as a threat and trying to kick them out of Syria. So it is all between the new government not hts and Russia, if they pay enough they can very well stay. Turkish backed SNA is at least 4 times larger than hts, it is a total nonsense in every way considering the new government as a hts government. It is a Turkish backed government consisting many different groups while hts is one of them. Officially Turkey doesn't support hts nor you can see Turkish arms in their hands but yeah, i have to admit at least MIT is sure supporting them or more like keeping them under control. If rebels learned something during Syrian civil war nobody can do a damn thing in our backyard without our consent. Russians and Iranians learned that too now while it is US/rael's turn and this is the whole reason USrael has been so aggressive since the offensive. They are literally sabre-rattling to prevent Turkish bases popping up in southern Syria by a massive bombing campaign like they would target anything. But Turkey is not Iran, if our forces are targeted we would retaliate ten fold if not more so it would escalate into a war in no time. This is the whole reason they are targeting everything from patrol boats to planes to scare the new government not us. They are also clearly protecting YPG as their bombing was the worst while YPG was under heavy SNA attack then quickly slowed down after time limited ceasefire. YPG is a dead horse, USrael can beat it if they like but they can never ever establish a buffer zone with them. And those 100,000 members will disappear into thin air as it did in all Turkish operations, SNA could kick them out of Manbij city in a single day. So the war still isn't over until YPG at least surrenders Arabic majority territories, hopefully Trump will just pull out all support but i guess we will see. If there can be really Turkish bases next to Golan, i really doubt it. We are surely disturbed by USrael's actions but this doesn't mean we are willing to stop them. This isn't our war rather Arabic countries' war, last time i checked none of them were eager to help us about Syrian refugees and displaced Syrians in Turkish controlled Syria who were total 9.5 million people! They were even normalizing relations with alasad despite everything he did, despite half Syria's population was still outside his control. Let's not forget Lebanon kept even supporting him for years. So yeah why would we care about their problem then? It is just ridiculous western propaganda trying to show us like a threat only because we aren't under their mind control..
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@themisthemistocleous1404 You are the one who needs to learn maritime law because countries can refuse innocent passage so easily and nobody has to give access to any ship, here are refusal conditions:
(a) any threat or use of force against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of the coastal State, or in any other manner in violation of the principles of international law embodied in the Charter of the United Nations;
(b) any exercise or practice with weapons of any kind;
(c) any act aimed at collecting information to the prejudice of the defence or security of the coastal State;
(d) any act of propaganda aimed at affecting the defence or security of the coastal State;
(e) the launching, landing or taking on board of any aircraft;
(f) the launching, landing or taking on board of any military device;
(g) the loading or unloading of any commodity, currency or person contrary to the customs, fiscal, immigration or sanitary laws and regulations of the coastal State;
(h) any act of wilful and serious pollution contrary to this Convention;
(I) any fishing activities;
(j) the carrying out of research or survey activities;
(k) any act aimed at interfering with any systems of communication or any other facilities or installations of the coastal State;
(l) any other activity not having a direct bearing on passage.
Greece can use so many of those points out there as an excuse to refuse passage of Turkish ships! The worst of all countries can inspect innocent passing ships so Greece can try to inspect all ships heading to Istanbul etc and delay them for weeks and even months!! As i said in my message lets switch shoes and assume Turkey was trying to do this against Greece, would you accept entire Greek fleet has to travel from Turkish waters and constantly be denied or inspected by Turkey, huh??? Ofc you would never ever accept such a thing because Turkey is ''untrustworthy'' but you total jokes are trying to do this against us while Greece is equally untrustworthy in our eyes if not way more. At least Turkey never ever directly violated international agreements like Greece's violation of demilitarization...
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
--Noam Chomsky
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
--Noam Chomsky
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
Noam Chomsky
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Sadly it was quite biased, for example no mention of how easily ''humanist'' and ''democratic'' west justifies supporting warlords, dictators, kings or princes if their interests demand it! Tobruk government was killing and destroying Libyan people elected government for years with foreign support like Sudanese, Egyptian and Russian mercenaries and weapons. And no western country did a damn thing to stop it, some of them were even openly supporting warlord haftar like France even if Russia also has been supporting Tobruk. Then when Turkey finally intervened and saved a democratically elected government, also finally enforcing a ceasefire after years of fighting suddenly it became ''a huge problem'' and some western countries even tried to block Turkish support to UN recognized GNA government like what the actual fuck?! If French and German navy didn't back down Turkish frigates were literally open fire on them especially in the case of German piracy, they had no right to stop a Turkish ship in international waters and search it illegally. Some might claim it is too aggressive but Turkey has every right to target pirates regardless what flag they are flying..
It is just a ridiculous joke that Turkey needs Libya to back it's claims in Mediterranean, it is not at all. Turkey didn't sign UNCLOS and it is not binding between Greece and Turkey while UNCLOS wasn't the only UN sea laws convention rather there were more of them before which were signed by both Turkey and Greece. So those previous conventions are binding and Turkey can literally ignore all Greek islands even in Aegean not just Mediterranean 100% according to international laws while only has to leave 12 nmiles EEZ for the islands. Also there is absolutely NOTHING found yet in the disputed area so claiming it was for ''billions of dollars'' is just nothing but another laughable claim! Turkey can not and will not allow Greece to use tiny islands that you need magnifying glass to see on a map and with only few hundred population to reduce EEZ of 80 million people regardless there are resources or not. It is also exactly same in the entire world, for example British islands next to France have both reduced territorial waters and EEZ, French islands next to Canada have reduced EEZ, Finnish islands next to Sweden have both reduced waters and EEZ, Spanish islands next to Morocco have both reduced waters and EEZ. But only God knows how exactly Greek islands next to Turkey must have full 12 miles territorial waters and full 200 nmiles EEZ, right?! They will need a war and also a victory to achive it for sure.
The fighting in Libya didn't stop because GNA forces couldn't defeat haftar forces, again completely false information. It stopped because russkies sent two squadrons into Libya, actual fucking russian air force! It created a dilemma for GNA side as they had no air force to speak off and Turkey could send some F-16s to Libya but Libyan bases were in terrible shape and Libya is too far away for air refueling operations. Those russian squadrons could not target Turkish forces but they could shoot down Turkish drones and freely bomb GNA forces while russkies could also send more of them. It is often overlooked in the west for obvious reasons but Turkish backed GNA killed HUNDREDS of wagner mercenaries in Libya and they were willing to further increase their presence. So instead of escalating the war sides signed a ceasefire agreement under Turkish and russky supervision..
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
Noam Chomsky
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@ReflectedMiles The maoist portion?? CCP is still 100% maoist organization not just a portion and China never actually became a respected country with enforced rule of law. Rather rule of law always meant what CCP wanted in China and one day they decided students were making too much noise and silenced some of them under tracks of tanks, another they woke up and decided Falun gong was a dangerous ''organization'' for the communist party and persecuted hundreds of thousands people only because they didn't like a harmless belief!! Lets not forget their aggressive stance against the west isn't something new neither rather they were always same since Korean war and they constantly threatened western countries especially UK for handover of Hong Kong process which still continues even today!! The only difference between today and those days internet wasn't common so there weren't hundreds of atrocity videos circulating and the west could easily look the other way. I really have no idea how come China became from Korean war and ''the evil empire'' communism to ''a respectful, reliable investment target with enforced rule of law'', just how??? Even then i would agree China was a better target for investment than many African countries like Somalia or Rwanda etc but not all of them. And there is still hope for even war torn African countries for example Turkey is investing several billion dollars into Somalia and heavily training their army. One third of Somalian army is already Turkish trained and it works Somalia is stabilizing greatly, then how exactly US which has hundreds of times more resources than Turkey can't do it??? Somalian people don't trust US, then fucking use Turkey that Somalian people trust after all it is a NATO ally!! But nope, why would US, EU etc bother with Somalia that their investment will take years to return while they can invest into wicked china and withdraw way more like it is a damn atm!! So it always ends in the same point, money decides what the west does not humanism, liberalism, anti-corruption etc like you claimed...
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
Noam Chomsky
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
Noam Chomsky
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@someoneinthecrowd4313 Im sure you don't have any real grudge rather simply feeling troubled because of Turkey's stance that ''denying genocides'' or still ''invading western countries'', however this brings us to that unfair treatment again because Turkey never did those things!! Turkey was a true western ally when soviet union still existed and was a very critical partner against them. But after it's collapse there have been both conservative and racist figures in western countries pushing a narrative against Turkey or Muslims in general. It wasn't entirely the fault of misinformation and some wicked figures in the west neither, rather Muslims fed this narrative as well with violence and radicalism, however as a secular country and one of the most modern Muslim communities Turkey never deserved to be a part of it especially while western countries are cooperating with backward Arabic kingdoms so much!! Anyway one of easiest ways to push such narrative was using what happened during WW1 after all hundreds of thousands Armenians indeed died so they re-wrote it in a way that Turkey would never accept it and look like guilty. For example im sure you read some articles about Armenian genocide, but do you know Russian empire invaded entire eastern Turkey in 1914 and Ottoman lost most of Armenian majority territories? Do you know Armenians began preparations for a revolt even before Ottoman joined WW1 and after Ottoman defeats against Russia they revolted against Ottoman in late 1914 thinking Ottoman was about to collapse?? Do you know during their revolt they didn't only target Ottoman forces also Turkish civilians and according to ENTENTE sources at least 300,000 Turkish civilians were killed in Anatolia??? The worst of all Ottoman and Turkey always accepted there were atrocities, in fact dozens of Ottoman offiicials faced trials and found guilty including an Ottoman governer. But do you know how many Armenians faced any kind of trial for their crimes against humanity???? ZERO!! Rather their killing of innocent civilians became ''Armenian resistance''...
Then westerners could dare to talk about humanism, justice etc, i even argued with an actual British journalist who claimed to be converted and truly humanist anymore but even he was claiming ''Turkish casualties are irrelevant because they were killed by militants'' like WTF!! Because in reality those militants were still armed and supported by Entente forces, in fact this was why Ottoman displaced Armenian population to Syria and Lebanon away from front lines with Russian empire where they were getting their supplies from. Turkey will never ever accept this moronity and forget about the killing of Turkish civilians, simply because it is spitting in our ancestors' faces!! We would rather becoming enemies again then accepting such moronities of the west which is why Turkey denies a genocide and will continue doing so forever, or until westerners finally become humanist not in name only and recognize Turkish casualties as well..
Very similar situation was in Cyprus again that far right EOKA-B militants staged a coup and began targetting Turkish Cypriots. As a guarantor state Turkey first went to another guarantor state UK and offered a joint operation to restore order in Cyprus which was refused. Then applied to UN and demanded immediate action which was taking forever so Turkey ''invaded'' or correctly intervened to Cyprus. As a guarantor state Turkey always had such a right and you can't find a single UN action against Turkey simply because it was according to international laws. However saying this doesn't mean i think Turkey is 100% right, it isn't at all. For example we could use smaller force in Cyprus and achieve same goals with a lot less civilian and military casualties. What can i say, we usually choose brute force approach it is an undeniable fact but nobody can ignore how we were provoked or forced to act then try to blame us for everything...
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
--Noam Chomsky
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@cheeseofultimatedoom Sure lets compare it with countless bad things Europeans did:
How many Belgian civilians got killed in Congo, huh? Zero??
What about German civilians in Poland, Russian civilians in Siberia, British civilians in India, French civilians in Algeria, Spanish civilians in South America, American civilians in North America?? Were they ever systematically targeted??? No, they weren't..
While on the other hand AT LEAST 300,000 Turkish civilians got killed in Anatolia by ''harmless'' and ''peaceful'' Armenians not according to Turkish sources rather ENTENTE sources!! Why is it so hard to admit that after Russian empire invaded eastern Turkey in 1914 Armenians wrongly believed Ottoman was going to collapse and rebelled as a Russian proxy while not only targeting Ottoman forces also Turkish civilians?? Yeah, you neutral jokes know it as ''Armenian resistance'' which began before they were genocided somehow and only God knows how exactly killing of women and children is resistance!! To suppress their rebellion Ottoman displaced them to Syria and Lebanon, far from front lines with Russian empire where they were getting their weapons and supplies from. It is true hundreds of thousands Armenians died during their forceful displacement but it is also another fact hundreds of thousands Turkish civilians died as well so as long as the west tries to re-write history while completely ignoring Armenian rebellion and their atrocities we will never apologize for defending our people and country even if thousands of years would pass. It is because humanism isn't something subjective like you jokes act rather humanism is about all people and Turkish casualties deserve to be recognized as equally as Armenian casualties!! But sadly you jokes adopted those values in name only so you could try to call our casualties ''resistance'' etc, the worst of all Ottoman actually never refused there were atrocities and dozens of Ottoman officials faced trial and were punished including an Ottoman governer. While Armenia never ever accepted any wrongdoings and not a single Armenian even faced any kind of trial for their crimes against humantiy!! Then you could dare to talk about justice, no wonder vast majority of countries which recognized so called Armenian genocide are western countries with such wicked hypocrisy...
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
--Noam Chomsky
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This was mostly neutral and accurate but there were some great mistakes like claiming majority of Turkish army remained loyal to erdogan which is completely false. Even today majority of Turkish army isn't loyal to erdogan rather the largest faction within army is republicans same as the largest opposition in the country CHP party. However they also stopped gulen led coup simply because it would cause a civil war. Nobody wants a civil war rather a democratic solution must be achieved. It is true there are islamists in Turkey but they wouldn't even make 10% of the population and islamist parties couldn't even pass 10% election threshold in the past! Until erdogan united conservatives from all sides not just islamists including nationalists and gulen party which did the coup because erdogan gave them positions in the army and government to convince them. So republicans which ruled Turkey mostly since it was established became around 30% opposition, however it is still republicans who hold the most power in Turkey from economy to the army! And that's why even if erdogan had majority vote to do literally everything he couldn't change republican laws at all. So it is just western moronity to claim ''Turkey will become an Islamic state'', in fact even Ottoman was the most moderate Islamic state out here that in it's entire 600 years long history a single woman was stoned after she admitted doing prostitution and challenging Ottoman laws publicly. While sadly hundreds of women are still stoned even today in so called ''the best allies of the west'' aka arabic kingdoms. Western policies are just full of wicked hypocrisy really and i don't care if we become enemies again, Turkey is our country and we will rule it according to our own wishes regardless it is bad or good. So mind your own business or perhaps actually try to fight radicalism for a change instead of arming and supporting wicked warlords, dictators, princes and kings like mbs, haftar etc!! Then perhaps i would believe you actually want freedom and democracy for us not meddling with our country to benefit yourselves, capish??..
Then comes straight out lies, it was never forbidden to speak Kurdish that how exactly it could be banned anyway, so moronic! Rather publishing books, operating radio and TV channels in other languages then Turkish was banned. So around two dozen etnicities were effected from this not just Kurds and those laws were changed decades ago, in fact Turkey is the only country on Earth Kurdish people are represented in it's parliment with their own party!! You could think 18 million Kurds want indepedence while Turkey suppressing so many people somehow but in reality 12 million Kurdish people out of that 18 million don't even live in eastern Turkey rather in WESTERN Turkey and the biggest Kurdish city in the world isn't Diyarbakır, Sanandaj or Erbil rather ISTANBUL with 3 million Kurdish population! There are also more than THREE million marriages between Turks and Kurds which shows those nations don't hate each other at all, in fact they are becoming one nation anymore!! And this is exactly what ultranationalist Kurds can not stomach as they see this great integration of two nations as the end of Kurdish nation therefore they launched ''a holy war to save it'' by severing ties between two nations. Luckly vast majority of both Turks and Kurds can see they would be living in far worse conditions if they were severed therefore PKK gets very little support from inside Turkey, mainly from uneducated Kurds from eastern Turkey. However PKK always received great support from outside, that's why they were marxists when it was first established and received great support from soviet union. After it collapsed they became Iranian proxies and fought against their ''Kurdish brothers'' in 90s during Kurdish civil war. After 2003 invasion of Iraq they suddenly became ''democratic Kurds'' and became US proxies even if same people rule PKK for decades and they didn't hold an election in their entire history anywhere on Earth. But ofc they are still somehow ''democratic'' according to uncle sam and ignorant people like you! So in short even if republicans became ruling party again nothing will change in Syria and Turkey will continue targeting so called ''US partners'' simply because they are actually terrorists. For example even the commander of YPG Mazloum Kobani is actually a PKK terrorist who ''retired'' being a terrorist and became ''a good democrat'' according to our NATO ''allies'' . You might eat this BS and believe NATO countries are perfect rather it is just Turkey causing problems but it is really hard for us even if we don't support erdogan..
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In 1920 there were 10 million Turks against 6.5 million Greeks and the biggest empires of the time were supporting Greece directly on the ground such as Brits and French!! The worst part Turks were constantly fighting for 9 years including a world war which is why Turkish side was actually outnumbered greatly in Turkish war of independence such as here is the last battle between Greeks and Turks:
Battle of Dumlupınar in 1922
Turkish side:
98,670 infantry
5,286 cavalry
323 artillery
0 (Zero) reserve
Greek side:
130,000 infantry
1,300 cavalry
348 artillery
70,000 reserve
Greek side also had more machine guns, ammunations, trucks, supplies, planes etc and greeks were positioned very well in a valley between two mountains and many hills. Even then on 26 August 1922 Turkish side launched a great offensive and slaughtered 60% of greek army within only 4 days!! Greek casualties were so sewere they couldn't even reform their lines again rather ran back to Greece in a complete disarray while attacking Turkish civilians and burning villages and towns...
Today there are more than 70 million Turks against 10 million thiefreeks who can't even survive without getting charity money from Europe while somehow you thiefreeks still think you can defeat us Turks even if you miserably failed in 1000 times more favourable conditions, LMAO!! You thiefreeks should watch what you are doing very closely otherwise you will end up getting slaughtered again without any question at all :))
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@FORGOTTENHISTORYCHANNEL Palestinians are building tunnels to attack Israel? Those Palestinians can not even dig wells without Israeli permission in Area C! They can not use their own water resources to agriculture, they can not fish in their own territorial waters, they can not go to work without waiting hours to pass walls!! In Gaza unemployment rate is 60% SIXTY PERCENT, seriously you really expect them to literally starve to death without doing anything in return?! What would you do if you were in same subhuman conditions, i really doubt you would quietly starve to death, nobody would. So it is completely false claiming ''Israel is under attack'' rather Israel creating this situation themselves so they could use it and annex more of West bank everyday, build larger walls everywhere, in fact it became such a culture even Israeli civilians going out and illegally seizing Palestinian assests under daylight but you could still claim otherwise, just wow..
I've never ever claimed Arabs acted rightly and even i would completely agree it was originally Arabic countries and Palestinian leaders fault but this doesn't mean Israel should be allowed to literally act as an apartheid regime even today.
Do you call Algerian war a genocide? France committed a huge list of atrocities during it, in fact almost 2 million Algerians lost their lives and France was indeed accused with committing a genocide. Do you know what their claim to prove it wasn't? ''Algerians started an armed rebellion against us''. Armenians also started an armed rebellion against us, in fact Ottoman decided to displace them only because Russian empire invaded entire eastern Turkey in 1914 and was supplying arms and supplies to Armenians! But ofc it is completely ignored for obvious reasons, there is another fact always ignored that Armenian militia didn't only target Ottoman forces also Muslim civilians and according to ENTENTE sources more than 300,000 Turkish civilians were killed in Anatolia. But ofc it was ''Armenian resistance'' like Ottoman was using battalions of women and children to target them!! You are a person who is way older than me so im sure you also remember Armenian casualties were 300,000 in 90s then became 500,000 and after erdogan showed up it became 1.5 million even if Russian empire was occupying ALL Armenian majority lands in 1915 and there weren't so many Armenians left in Ottoman territory. Im sorry but you people literally got blind anymore and even if you are such an educated person you could be fooled by propaganda and lies so easily. You can not even answer if i ask how exactly Turkey committed Kurdish genocide but you are so sure it happened you feel no second thought throwing it around. Our Kurdish minority has been always much more integrated than your African minority and they have been full citizens since 1923, in fact the government doesn't even collect information about ethnicity so it can not discriminate in any way! So if we still committed a Kurdish genocide somehow you Americans committed an African genocide without any question, would you admit that?? Ofc not, you would claim it was centuries ago with slavery etc but in reality Jim crow laws existed until 1960 SIXTYS that similar laws never existed in Turkey! You are always so quick to throw accusations around in the name of humanity but when it comes to your own country all of those important human values disappear instantly!! Such a shame really, if the country of freedom is like this we are so doomed. We will never become an advanced civilization rather destroy ourselves one way or another...
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This was mostly neutral but there were still downplaying facts and some huge mistakes, for example PKK was so wickedly attacking civilians including even Kurdish civilians the second highest casualty in this conflict after terrorists themselves isn't Turkish army, police nor civilians at all rather it is actually KURDS, civilians and especially Kurdish village guards that PKK killed thousands of them! There are hundreds of villages in southeastern Turkey alone and because the region is extremely mountainous Turkish army couldn't protect all villages constantly and Kurdish villagers were becoming easy targets for PKK raids. As a solution the government trained and armed Kurdish civilians so they could defend themselves until the army arrived. I bet some people may think ''Kurdish'' PKK and Kurdish villagers didn't fight against each others but in reality it is terrorist PKK which was seizing their assests while calling it ''tax'' and even forcefully recruiting their children! So Kurdish village guards pretty much always fought against them even if they were greatly outnumbered, while PKK simply declared them as ''traitors'' and mercilessly killed thousands of them!! Especially in 90s their violence was out of control if a Kurdish intellectual could talk against PKK would be found dead in their homes. Suicide bombing attacks in public buses, squires, markets, stations, stadiums you name it and this is the reason why literally DOZENS of countries recognize PKK as a terrorist organization as they really are terrorists!! PKK isn't committing as many terrorist attacks as before doesn't prove they magically changed like some westerners claim. Rather it is mainly because they can not smuggle both arms and themselves through Turkish-Iraqi anymore because of constant surveillance by drones. In 90s the best Turkey could do was building border outposts along the mountanious border to literally watch the border with soldiers and several dozen soldiers in a mountain peak were often becoming a target themselves..
It is true KDP asked support from even saddam but they did that out of desperation, after years of infighting they were exhausted and with great Iranian support PUK was gaining upper hand. This was also the point PKK joined PUK alliance not after KDP asked support from Iraqi government, there is a timelapse for obvious reasons! It was also completely ignored after PUK territorial gains in 1997 Turkey invaded norhern Iraq with 60,000 soldiers as PKK alliance couldn't be allowed to win the civil war and gain huge support. Instead of the truth it is told like Barzani stopped the civil war by swinging his magical wand for obvious reasons. This Turkish intervention and ending the civil war in favour of KDP was also the reason why Turkey and Barzanis have been allies since then and 15 Turkish bases were built in KDP territories started from 1998 for training Peshmerga forces and providing security.
It is also a completely a false Turkey blocked KRG's access to the world, in fact both Barzani and Talabani also many Iraqi Kurds have TURKISH diplomatic passports so they can travel through Turkey freely and ask for support from other nations. What more Turkey supposed to do than giving people diplomatic passports who aren't even Turkish citizens, huh?? Then they also completely ignored vast majority of KRG's trade travel through Turkey including 95% of their oil exports and this was the only reason KRG could survive so long. Then comes ''Turkey using PKK as an excuse to attack YPG'' nonsense, while in reality there are around TWO THOUSAND PKK terrorists in YPG's ranks, in fact even the commander of YPG is a ''former'' PKK terrorists called Mazloum Abdi! This isn't a secret or anything, just search his name you would see he is a known PKK terrorist, but no worries according to our ''trustworthy'' allies he retired being a terrorist and he is a democratic hero now!! Turkey will never ever accept this moronity, while the only way PKK terrorists can be declared innocent they will surrender and apologize to the people that they killed thousands of them. Until it happens Turkey will continue targeting them in every opportunity or YPG can cut it's ties with PKK, in fact Turkey actually asked it from US many times before starting operations against them which was ofc forgotten again! However with even it's commander being a PKK terrorist i guess it is extremely unlikely they can cut ties or could be even called seperate organizations...
PS: There aren't 30-40 million Kurdish people living Kurdistan, for example over 12 million Kurdish people out of Turkey's around 18 million Kurdish minority live in WESTERN Turkey not in Kurdistan. While the biggest Kurdish city in the world isn't Erbil, Sanadaj or Diyarbakır rather ISTANBUL with 3 million Kurdish population! They could at least research about populations properly but nope! By the way even if im a Turkish person im fully supporting a Kurdish state they suffered a lot especially in Iraq and we would rather having a border with a Kurdish state than Iraqis or Syrians. But a KURDISH state not a terrorist state, we will never ever support such a country and even fight against it's forces as long as those PKK terrorists are in charge..
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@صــقــر قــريـــش First of all you somehow failed to read a simple article which specifically mentions those numbers are from Kurdish sources and not confirmed by any other source such as:
''According to the Kurdish Red Crescent, attacks on Afrin by Turkish-led forces between 22 January and 21 February killed 93 civilians, including 24 children.''
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-43228472
So i recommend you to read the article again but it is true civilians died due it is impossible to avoid civilian casualties if you are attacking cities such as Afrin where around 200,000 people live! But during our entire operation according to SHOR total 380 civilians died and according to Kurds 500 civilians died. But lets check how many civilians died in Yemen:
6,592 civilians died because of attacks and 90,000 more civilians died who are mostly children because of starvation and sicknesses and you compare this miserable operation with Olive Branch? Suadis are responsible for protecting those civilians no matter houti tactics!! PKK is also a bloody terrorist organization which killed thousands of civilians and tried to use children and women as human shields countless times but we are doing everything we can to protect those people not bombing them like you..
About WW1 you need to learn that Christian empires started to invade Ottoman-Muslim territories long before such as France invaded Algeria in 1830, Russia invaded Crimea in 1856, France invaded Tunisia in 1881, British invaded Egypt in 1882, Italy invaded Libya in 1912 so Ottoman didn't enter WW1 to satisfy the German Empire that only Allah knows where you learned that!! Ottoman was already fighting against all allied powers and trying to protect Muslims long before WW1 and that's why Ottoman tried to use Germany to gain some of those lands back in a mentality that ''An enemy of my enemy is my friend'' i guess you know that ancient proverb? But thanks to you arabs we didn't only loose the war also lost many more lands and almost going to loose half of Anatolia if there was no Ataturk who organized and led The Turkish war of independence!! While you arabs became Christian mandates and let Christians to suck your resources, draw your borders and use you as they wished!! If you became completely independent after rebelling against us i wouldn't mind that but you fought against your Muslims brothers for freedom then agreed becoming Christian mandates!! What kind of logic is that?
It was 100 years ago and we somehow managed to protect our Anatolia so im not really against arabs anymore for these past sins but you still do same shit even today! Saudis buy hundreds of billion dolar worth arms from US and the west like that does any good for any Muslims while Turkey also produces very similar weapons but you wouldn't support Turkey because we are Muslims, right? Instead you are supporting westerners so they would produce even more arms so they can continue invading Muslim world and killing us as they wish!! Syria sides with Russia again exactly same as they sided with France like that did any good for them expect destroying their country!! Egypt sides with Israel and Cyprus against Turkey like israelis did any good for Egypt in their history what so ever!! We Turks won't invade your lands again nor we need your lands anymore so you don't have to act hostile against us in every incident, ok?...
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Turkish army is actually 20% Kurdish force and they also fight against those so called ''Kurds'' in Syria simply because nobody in the region calls them just Kurds here. It is called YPG a Syrian branch of PKK which has been around since 80s as a marxist organization first which wanted to establish a communist Kurdish country. After soviet union collapsed and accordingly their funding ran dry they became freelancers. They fought during Kurdish civil war between 1994 and 1997 as a PUK (Second largest party/tribe in KRG) and IRANIAN ally against KDP which is the largest party/tribe in KRG. And they were actually winning the civil war until Turkish army invaded KRG in 1997 with 50,000 soldiers and ended the civil war in favour of KDP, that's exactly how KDP and Turkey have been allies since then and there are 13 Turkish bases in KRG. After Turkish invasion they ran into Qandil mountains in KRG where regional government control is pretty much non-existing even today and stayed there until American invasion of Iraq. So after a bumpy ride they finally found the perfect master which is rich and could babysit them with it's lies and influence. Since then they have been a US proxy in both KRG and later Syria, cooperation in Iraq is often overlooked as on paper US army has been cooperating with PUK Peshmerga not PKK terrorists. But in reality PUK Peshmerga is not an army and they have all kind of smaller groups in their armed force as allies. And since Kurdish civil war PUK and PKK were allies for 2 decades, in fact it was PUK Peshmerga and PKK terrorists who captured and controlled Kirkuk for several years. However after Iraqi army could push them out of Kirkuk easily their relations went sour as both sides kept blaming each others for weak defence of the city. And later PUK completely banned PKK activities in their territories which ended their alliance in 2021. So right now they have no allies left in Iraq and being hunted down anytime they leave their caves, this is why more and more PKK members are running into Syria and becoming ''democratic Kurds'' aka YPG terrorists, in fact even so called commander of YPG is actually a PKK terrorists! But according to our ''lovely'' NATO allies Mazloum Kobani is a FORMER PKK terrorists who ''retired'' and became ''an angel of democracy'' now!! Yeah right, PKK/YPG didn't hold A SINGLE ELECTION in their entire history anywhere on Earth and same people are controlling the group for decades but they are somehow democratic that only God knows how exactly..
Here comes the excuses ''they didn't hold any election because turkish oppression didn't let them, they are freedom fighters that's why they are democratic'' etc let me ask you a question, who do you think has second highest casualties in this war after terrorists themselves? Turkish soldiers?? Civilians?? No, the second highest casualty in this war is KURDISH VILLAGE GUARDS! There are thousands of villages in south-eastern Turkey alone and the army couldn't defend all of them constantly therefore government decided to arm Kurdish villagers so they could defend themselves until the army arrives. I bet you would expect ''Kurdish freedomfighters'' PKK and Kurdish villagers didn't fight against each others, right? But in reality it is terrorist PKK which was seizing assests of villagers as ''tax'' and even forcefully recruiting their children so Kurdish village guards pretty much always fought against them even if they were greatly outnumbered! While PKK simply declared them as ''traitors'' and mercilessly killed thousands of them, that's how they have second highest casualties in this war!! Such example of freedom fighters i must say and it doesn't even end here, hundreds of bomb attacks against public markets, squares, stadiums, government buildings. Executions of Kurdish civilians who were against them, plating mines into rural roads against Turkish army which pretty much always killed innocent civilians passing, suicide attacks with trucks loaded with explosives which happened as late as 2016 when they attacked a police station and leveled down an entire block into ground killing dozens. Few months later another truck exploded while they were still loading it and leveled down several buildings killing all terrorists and many civilians. That's your ''freedom fighters'' if you can believe such an extreme moronity and this is the reason why dozens of countries consider PKK as a terrorist organization as they are truly. But ofc it was in the past, today PKK is a lovely, reliable and democratic US partner anymore even if US also considers PKK as a terrorist organization!! You westerners love to talk from your high horses about humanism, democracy, rule of law etc but at the end all you care is your own benefits and could even support terrorists for it, such a pity...
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
-Noam Chomsky
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
-Noam Chomsky
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Had been trading a lot during cata, mounts, raid drops, rare mats everything really. There were tons of whales paying a lot and shady characters selling items for like 5 times lower than market value. I was always asking if they were duped to prove ''i had no idea'' to blizz but i was 99.99% sure they were duped or stolen. I also had a bot friend who would just mail tons of stuff to me, he was sometimes making mistake and adding gold to the mail instead of asking. I was saying mate you did a mistake today, he was like forget about it np always. Even adding gifts often, i guess it was reducing his chance of getting caught as i was getting stuff for half of market value at least. Then blizz's fair play campaign began all bots got banned including him, shaddy characters disappeared, what a bummer it was for me lol! My all time gold obtained should be around 120 million if i remember correctly but ofc not even half is profit as i had great expenses as well. Still i was earning way more than selling runs, market manupilation is always way to go. Had to quit wow several months after panda but began doing same with new world recently. I could earn 1500 dollars in 10 days after season 1 release no bots, no exploits, no runs just market and storage...
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
--Noam Chomsky
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
Noam Chomsky
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This was mostly neutral but there were still downplaying facts and some huge mistakes, for example PKK was so wickedly attacking civilians including even Kurdish civilians the second highest casualty in this conflict after terrorists themselves isn't Turkish army, police nor civilians at all rather it is actually KURDS, civilians and especially Kurdish village guards that PKK killed thousands of them! There are hundreds of villages in southeastern Turkey alone and because the region is extremely mountainous Turkish army couldn't protect all villages constantly and Kurdish villagers were becoming easy targets for PKK raids. As a solution the government trained and armed Kurdish civilians so they could defend themselves until the army arrived. I bet some people may think ''Kurdish'' PKK and Kurdish villagers didn't fight against each others but in reality it is terrorist PKK which was seizing their assests while calling it ''tax'' and even forcefully recruiting their children! So Kurdish village guards pretty much always fought against them even if they were greatly outnumbered, while PKK simply declared them as ''traitors'' and mercilessly killed thousands of them!! Especially in 90s their violence was out of control if a Kurdish intellectual could talk against PKK would be found dead in their homes. Suicide bombing attacks in public buses, squires, markets, stations, stadiums you name it and this is the reason why literally DOZENS of countries recognize PKK as a terrorist organization as they really are terrorists!! PKK isn't committing as many terrorist attacks as before doesn't prove they magically changed like some westerners claim. Rather it is mainly because they can not smuggle both arms and themselves through Turkish-Iraqi anymore because of constant surveillance by drones. In 90s the best Turkey could do was building border outposts along the mountanious border to literally watch the border with soldiers and several dozen soldiers in a mountain peak were often becoming a target themselves..
It is true KDP asked support from even saddam but they did that out of desperation, after years of infighting they were exhausted and with great Iranian support PUK was gaining upper hand. This was also the point PKK joined PUK alliance not after KDP asked support from Iraqi government, there is a timelapse for obvious reasons! It was also completely ignored after PUK territorial gains in 1997 Turkey invaded norhern Iraq with 60,000 soldiers as PKK alliance couldn't be allowed to win the civil war and gain huge support. Instead of the truth it is told like Barzani stopped the civil war by swinging his magical wand for obvious reasons. This Turkish intervention and ending the civil war in favour of KDP was also the reason why Turkey and Barzanis have been allies since then and 15 Turkish bases were built in KDP territories started from 1998 for training Peshmerga forces and providing security.
It is also a completely a false Turkey blocked KRG's access to the world, in fact both Barzani and Talabani also many Iraqi Kurds have TURKISH diplomatic passports so they can travel through Turkey freely and ask for support from other nations. What more Turkey supposed to do than giving people diplomatic passports who aren't even Turkish citizens, huh?? Then they also completely ignored vast majority of KRG's trade travel through Turkey including 95% of their oil exports and this was the only reason KRG could survive so long. Then comes ''Turkey using PKK as an excuse to attack YPG'' nonsense, while in reality there are around TWO THOUSAND PKK terrorists in YPG's ranks, in fact even the commander of YPG is a ''former'' PKK terrorists called Mazloum Abdi! This isn't a secret or anything, just search his name you would see he is a known PKK terrorist, but no worries according to our ''trustworthy'' allies he retired being a terrorist and he is a democratic hero now!! Turkey will never ever accept this moronity, while the only way PKK terrorists can be declared innocent they will surrender and apologize to the people that they killed thousands of them. Until it happens Turkey will continue targeting them in every opportunity or YPG can cut it's ties with PKK, in fact Turkey actually asked it from US many times before starting operations against them which was ofc forgotten again! However with even it's commander being a PKK terrorist i guess it is extremely unlikely they can cut ties or could be even called seperate organizations...
PS: There aren't 30-40 million Kurdish people living Kurdistan, for example over 12 million Kurdish people out of Turkey's around 18 million Kurdish minority live in WESTERN Turkey not in Kurdistan. While the biggest Kurdish city in the world isn't Erbil, Sanadaj or Diyarbakır rather ISTANBUL with 3 million Kurdish population! They could at least research about populations properly but nope! By the way even if im a Turkish person im fully support a Kurdish state they suffered a lot especially in Iraq and we would rather having a border with a Kurdish state than Iraqis. But a KURDISH state not a terrorist state, we will never ever support such a country and even fight against it's forces as long as those PKK terrorists are in charge..
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@vasilisantonopoulos9326 First of all you don't sound like nationalist rather you are indeed a Greek nationalist finding ridiculous excuses to explain how exactly you could preserve your culture! For example lets assume Turkish culture indeed inferior like you claimed but care to explain please after 1000 years how exactly we are still Turkish not Greek, Persian, Arab etc if our culture is so inferor? Care to explain please if Greek culture is so superior and you could ''peacefully'' assimilate millions as far as central Asia how exactly we didn't become Greeks in 1000 years?? You simply can't explain and it is because your point is nothing but a nationalist moronity! Alexander or İskender isn't respected in Afghanistan etc rather his empire collapsed as soon as he died. While his successors began fighting against both each others and local people, hundreds of thousands died until successor states were established like Seleucid empire. Even then Seleucid empire kept fighting against locals and other Greek states while loosing most of it's territories. They managed to capture them back several decades later right before Romans started invaded their lands. So Greeks used FORCE not kisses and roses to invade those regions like moronically claimed exactly same as we Turks did. And it wasn't even Greek invasions which hellenized those territories, for example Greek states including Alexander couldn't capture even entire Anatolia! Rather it was ROMAN INVASION which completely changed the culture in the region. And nope, once again they didn't do it by kisses and roses rather they did it by crucifying MILLIONS along THOUSANDS of km roads!! Do i need to remind you how Roman empire was acting against minorities and their rebellions like what happened at Jerusalem? What about the suffering of Christians then Pagans when the empire adopted Christianity, such as hundreds of thousands Greek pagans who were masscared?? Do i have to remind you how Greek emperors of Byzantine killed and blinded hundreds of thousands like those poor Bulgars, huh??? I have absolutely no idea how you people could believe Alexander ''peacefully'' assimmilated millions of people by winking and sending kisses while literally millions of people got massacred. Or perhaps you are very well aware it is just a lie but you use it to mask your atrocities and claim your civilization is superior while ours is inferior. And you could even ask why we see Greece as a threat which is just amusing as you explained yourself why you are a threat by calling my nation inferior and accepting yourself as superior which EXACTLY sounds like a nazi member talking about Aryan race!! Without any question if EOKA terrorists with their right wing ideologies could win in Cyprus they were going to deport or kill every single Turkish Cypriot and with this kind of ridiculous mentality you will try to do same in Anatolia as well in case you could ever become stronger than us. That's why the problem isn't about Turkey at all rather you ridiculous people who live in a lala land. We could very well do same as you and crucify, blind, execute every single Greek on our path until you people became Turks. But we chose a different path and thanks to this fact you people are still Greeks regardless you lie to yourselves or not. And all we ask you to act according to this fact and see we aren't enemies, in fact we treated you better than not only other European empires also even how you treated your minorities!! But sadly with this kind of ridiculous and dangerous mentality you can never manage to do that and we will be really enemies if we aren't already. And nope, if there will be ever another Turkish invasion of Greece we won't be so nice again after all we are mindless inferior race who only knows how to kill...
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@vasilisantonopoulos9326 You could operate your own schools, churches, courts and even introduce your own laws! Care to share which European empire gave such rights to minorities?? Care to share even today minorities in Greece could operate their own courts and introduce their own laws?? NOPE, they can't and no European empire ever gave such rights to minorities! Even then it isn't enough and we are same as those colonial empires somehow even if we acted completely different!! This is just lying to yourself mate nothing else, sure i would agree we didn't do everything right Ottoman should had let minorities to become independent in 19th century instead of trying to forcefully control them. But we didn't do everything wrong neither as you claimed. If we didn't invade perhaps Byzantine was still here and Greek people were a strong and wealth nation today but perhaps some other force was going to invade Anatolia like Russians, Germans, Italians, Germans, British from all sides! Heck, even during only two hundred years long Greek independence they actually invaded entire Greece! And if they did same hundreds of years earlier you Greeks were going to be another once great but now disappeared nation like Romans, Egyptians etc, even without a Russian invasion you got significant slavic migration!! Your point that we destoryed Greeks is just baseless, with colonization and having much fertile lands Europe was going to be richer and stronger than Anatolia no matter there was Ottoman or Byzantine. So it is possible we actually protected you with our Turkish lives by fighting against European invasions which never ever stopped. And yep, Ottoman didn't even draft Christian population as it was one of benefits of paying jizya tax. On the other hand European empires levied millions regardless they were minority or not and used them as cannon fodders, such a terrible empire Ottoman was indeed...
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@vasilisantonopoulos9326 Sorry i was quite sick in last week. Once again you are claiming im misinformed or using/believing Turkish propaganda while in return you are doing EXACTLY same thing and only considering Greek propaganda as true! You don't even know what truly UN conventions mean, they are just CONVENTIONS which are only binding aka becoming international laws if all of subject countries signed and rattified it!! Did Turkey sign UNCLOS? NO, same as your ''great allies'' Israel, USA etc therefore UNCLOS is NOT binding between Turkey and Greece so Greece has no right at all to increase it's territorial waters to 12 nm in the waters shared with Turkey. Greece increased it's territorial waters in elsewhere did Turkey declare war on Greece?? Your whole point that Turkey is pressuring Greece is just a laughable joke as it is Greece which pressures Turkey with ridiculous claims, Aegean is already 50% Greek sea with 6 miles territorial waters and it is almost entirely Greek EEZ, what exactly you will gain if it is 70%?? Did you ever think about it, huh??? Absolutely nothing, Greece won't gain anything significant from increasing territorial waters while Turkey might loose many ports including even İzmir port which is third largest port in Turkey. And lets not forget entire Turkish shipping route to Istanbul and Black sea will be blockable!! Innocent passage is only a joke that Greece can delay Turkish ships for MONTHS with ''inspection'' excuse while can outright refuse passage of military ships!! And you somehow think it should be just ''ok'' for Turkey, imagine if there was your ''lovely'' allies Israel or US in shoes of Turkey, do you really naive enough to think they would allow Greece to inrease 12 nm territorial waters??? They would bomb the shit out of Greek cities instead and if you are even a tiny bit honest you know it is true. And not only them there are many more countries which wouldn't allow some islands to create such a great security risk and economic damage. For example British islands next to France have both reduced EEZ and territorial waters, Finnish islands next to Sweden have both reduced EEZ and territorial waters, Spanish islands next to Morocco have both reduced EEZ and territorial waters, French islands next to Canada have reduced EEZ, the list goes on and on even Finnish MAINLAND territorial waters are reduced to leave russkies an international corridor!! But only GOD knows how exactly Greek islands next to Turkey must have full EEZ and territorial waters even if it is causing huge damage to Turkey's ports and security and you somehow think it is too much Turkey considers it as a declaration of war!! If you can open your eyes even tiny bit you would see Turkey has no option but consider it as a declaration of war...
About airspace two wrongs do NOT make a right, if Greece was a law abiding country you would had reduced that illegal airspace which is only causing more tensions. Imagine there is a Turkish frigate in 8 miles away from a Greek island and somebody falls overboard. They launch a helicopter to pick him/her up and suddenly they are violating so called ''completely rightful'' Greek airspace, huh?? Do you seriously believe Greece ever had a right to increase airspace illegally and cause such an extremely moronic situation??? And nope, Turkey never ever ''silencely accepted it'' rather Turkey always considered Greek airspace as still 6 miles and it is same today simply because it is just illegal. It is completely true there are actual airspace violations from Turkish side but you somehow ''forgot'' to share there are hundreds of Turkish airspace violations from Greek side as well and that airspace isn't illegally increased rather COMPLETELY legal airspace of Turkey. What do expect us to do, wave behind you??? If Greece considers Turkish planes flying in illegal airspace as violations and violates legal Turkish airspace in return then we would take it further and violate legal Greek airspace as well, it is just that simple and this is how disputes escalate into wars. It is just a miracle there wasn't a war already between Turkey and Greece as there isn't many areas in the world with such extreme moronity and downright illegal actions..
UN doesn't accept any EEZ claims from any country at all and about Turkey they simply said it isn't a matter of UN and countries must decide with a mutual agreement! Then you claim Libya isn't a neighbour of Turkey but Greece is a neighbour Egypt, huh? You always claim you aren't biased but at the end you claim quite biased things because Turkey is closer to Libya than Greece to Egypt!! You are correct of Seville map being not official but care to explain please how exactly Greece, Cyprus and Israel sat at a table and planned building a pipeline through those waters if Greece wasn't claiming any EEZ there?? This was the exact moment Turkey sent it's warships to subject waters and began drilling so once again you acted first then blame us when it became too serious. Turkey won't allow a tiny island with 200 population that you need magnifiying glass to see on map to reduce it's EEZ over 100,000 km2, just can't happen and many other countries didn't allow such a thing neither as i gave examples up there. Many of those reduced EEZ of example islands aren't even 12 nm rather 6 nm. And again no, if your ''great allies'' US and Israel can refuse to sign UNCLOS Turkey can as well, you are literally ALWAYS biased that your allies are doing EXACTLY same thing but it somehow completely fine but Turkey can't do it, just laughable really..
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@vasilisantonopoulos9326 So you are trying to mean Entente sources are fake? Because they dropped their support for Greece in half way of the war while they even continued fighting Ataturk?? Then according to your own claim all Greek and Greek supporting sources are fake too! This again only showing how biased you are, all sources which claim Turkish civilians were killed are fake while all sources which claim Christian civilians were killed are true and a genocide happened for sure without any proof at all. For example you keep claiming Liman von Sanders was one of planners while in reality Liman von Sanders was a FRONT LINE commander and spent all his time in Ottoman fighting against enemy armies in trenches so i really wonder where you learned that and how you believed it is true. This really shows how clueless you are and blindly believing propaganda instead of doing your own research. It is also false Turkey refuses a conference, in fact Ottoman archieves have been always PUBLIC and anybody who wants to study can access it. If Turkey was trying to hide something like you claimed Ottoman archieves wouldn't be public, in fact not only Ottoman archieves British and French arhieves are also public and there isn't a single intercepted Ottoman/Turkish order to kill civilians in them! But somehow there were ''death camps'', ''gas chambers'', ''death trains'' etc without any orders nor plans and they became known 100 years later for obvious reasons. Turkey will never ever accept such a moronic re-writing of history, if you are willing to accept you rebelled/declared war to ''liberate your historical lands'' and targeted Turkish civilians as well after all your historical lands were Turkish majority for centuries, in return Ottoman army and also armed Turkish civilians targeted you in a civil war where hundreds of thousands were killed from both sides then lets host a conference today and condemn it all!! But im sure you ''honest'' and ''harmless'' jokes wouldn't accept it, Armenians don't even accept their russky backed rebellion, at least you are better i guess..
You act like it was Greece's choice to join WW2 but in reality you got invaded and had no choice at all! If Greece had a choice you would stay neutral as well and ''profit'' from the war EXACTLY same as Turkey, Sweden, Spain, Switzerland did. And all of those countries benefited from WW2 way more than Turkey, for example 270 tons of gold is only making 15 billion dollars today which is literally nothing compared to HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS Switzerland benefited from the war. Once again you are very quick to point a finger at us as ''war benefiters'' or something while your allies and friends are a million times worse than us. I wish Greece could stay neutral and didn't suffer so much including it's civil war which was also very bad but you can't blame us for anything only because we could stay neutral. And nope, Turkey didn't ask any islands from Italy rather Turkey asked treaty of Lausanne would apply to Italy-held islands as well which would mean Turkey would get anything within 2 miles while EVERTHING ELSE would be Greek. But sadly it was refused and several disputes were created by careless allies. There are many islets and rocks which are in grey zone not clear who owns them as a result both Turkey and Greece are claiming them..
Kemalists adopting a nationalist government system doesn't make them nationalists, if you know those names you have some understanding about Turkish politics while you could claim they are nationalists?? Kemalists are the most liberal side in Turkish politics and not nationalists at all. Also even actual Turkish nationalist parties aren't that nationalist for example there are African Turks in iyi nationalist party simply because they are statist more than nationalist!! There are only 10-15% nationalists in Turkey in sense of western nationalism and around 20% if we also include Kurdish nationalists which isn't much different than Greece. The real difference between Greece and Turkey is about liberalism that there are way more liberalists in Greece while there are way more conversatives in Turkey.
You once again show your bias because you know so much about TMT but care to share who was their leader? Nobody knows, lol! The most common claim i've seen is Denktaş while in reality he was a well-padded lawyer who spent decades studying and working, even questionable he ever held a weapon in his entire life. But somehow he established a right wing well organized group and committed so much crimes, even killed Turkish Cypriots, right?? I don't know how you believe such a thing really while Grivas was a soldier, he actually fought in Anatolia and got defeated so he had reason to target Turkish Cypriots for revenge and he did indeed! It wasn't even only EOKA which targeted Turkish Cypriots even Hellenic forces on Cyprus engaged against Turks as well that together with EOKA they killed hundreds of people and even invading entire Turkish towns between 1963 and 1974, you can't just ignore previous Turkish casualties and compare 1974 numbers alone!! So your claim that EOKA-B was anti-Makarios is only a joke really, there is no way at all you could actually believe such a thing so please stop it, you could perhaps convince ignorant people but not anybody who knows a little about those incidents. I understand it was really hard for Cyprus to hold them accountable for their crimes during that time but 50 years passed and still it is too hard?? You claim Turkish side didn't as well but there wasn't a known right wing organization in the Turkish side, nobody is proven to be committed attacks including bombings, noboy is proven to be planning assassinations including even Makarios III and many more Greek Cypriots as well. IT IS EOKA-B WHICH DID THOSE, IT IS PROVEN FROM MANY SOURCES, EVERYBODY KNOWS WHO THEY WERE AND WHAT THEY DID INCLUDING KILLING DOZENS OF GREEK CYPRIOTS!! But even then somehow Cyprus can't even hold a symbolic trial then how come Turkish Cypriots can trust such a country, ofc they will ask institutional rights and Turkish forces to protect them!! I don't know how severe those conditions were so i will check them from your sources but i doubt they were too severe considering the situation.
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
-Noam Chomsky
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
--Noam Chomsky
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
-Noam Chomsky
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
--Noam Chomsky
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
-Noam Chomsky
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“The Palestinians were offered two options: 1) to accept life in an Israeli open prison and enjoy limited autonomy and the right to work as underpaid laborers in Israel, bereft of any workers’ rights, or 2) resist, even mildly, and risk living in a maximum-security prison, subjected to instruments of collective punishment, including house demolitions, arrests without trial, expulsions, and in severe cases, assassinations and murder.”
Noam Chomsky
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