Comments by "John Zuma" (@johnzuma4688) on "Chris At Speakers Corner"
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Here is a list of 40 Qurans.
1, Qaloon Qur'an
2, Al- susi(ibn-katheer) Qur'an
3,Khaled QUR'AN
4,Idrees QUR'AN
5,warsh Qur'an
6, Hafs Ad- Dury (Abu - Amro alBasri) QUR'AN 7,Al- Laith QUR'AN
8,Al- Bazzi Qur'an
9,Al- Azraq QUR'AN
10,As - Susi (Abu Amro alBasri) QUR'AN
11,Ad - Dury(alkisa'i) QUR'AN
12, Ibn shanboodh Qur'an
13,Al- Asbahaani QUR'AN
14,Hisham QUR'AN
15,Ibn Dhakwan QUR'AN
16,Isa BinWardan QUR'AN
17,Sulayman QUR'AN
18, Ibn Jammaz QUR'AN
19,Ahmad bin Farah QUR'AN
20,Qunbul Qur'an
21,Showba QUR'AN
22, Ruwais QUR'AN
23,Shujaa' bin Abi Nasr Al- Balakhi QUR'AN
24, Abu Amro Al -Ala QUR'AN
25,Hafs QUR'AN 1924 Cairo edition
26, Sana QUR'AN
27, Al- Dury(Al Hasan AlBasri) QUR'AN
28, Hafs Al - Dury(ibn kathir) QUR'AN
29,khalf QUR'AN
30,Ishaq QUR'AN
31,Al Hasan bin Said Al- Matuu'l QUR'AN
32, Abu- Farah Al- Shan - budhi QUR'AN
33,Ibn Masud QUR'AN
34,Ubai kab QUR'AN
35, Ruh QUR'AN
36,Abu Musa QUR'AN
37,Hafs QUR'AN 1982 edition
38, Ibn Abbas QUR'AN
39,Topkapi Qur'an
40, Samarkand Kufic Qur'an
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I have read the hafs quran and some of the hadiths with an open mind and found the following very disturbing about Mohammed and his allah:
- Islam teaches that child marriage is OK which implies child rape (Surah 65:4) which is evil. And Mohammed of course led by example when he raped a 9 year old little girl.
- Islam teaches that it is OK for a husband to beat his wife (Surah 4:34) which is evil.
- Islam teaches that it is OK to use women captured in war to be used and sold as sex slaves (Surah 33:50) which evil.
- Islam teaches that Christians and Jews must be fought until they have been killed (murdered) unless they submit to Islam and agree to be oppressed second class citizens in the own country (Surah 9:29) which is evil.
- Verily those who believe not [in Islam], among those who have received the scriptures [Jews and Christians], and among the idolaters, [shall be cast] into the fire of hell, to remain therein [for ever]. These are the worst of creatures. << Quran 98:6, So according to Mohammed Christians and Jews who reject Islam are the worst of creature.
- And the witness of a women is worth only half of that of a man. (Surah 2:282). That is an insult to all women.
- Surah 3:151: "We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve (all non-Muslims) …"
- Surah 2:191: "And kill them (non-Muslims) wherever you find them … kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers (non-Muslims)."
- Surah 9:5: "Then kill the disbelievers (non-Muslims) wherever you find them, capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush …
So that is my problem with the many different Arabic quran we can all buy. And we should always remember all of Islam is only what Mohammed maybe recited and how he lived.
Lets see what Jesus said:
- Jesus teaches in John 14:6 English Standard Version » 6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. «
So who needs Mohammed and his allah? Logically no-one, especially as Mohammed does not explain how anyone gets to heaven following what he recited or how he lived.
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@maddaddy77 I see, you now change your tune. First it was just sources and now it is specific sources. But here are the sources on which I based my comment. I take you are not honest enough to leave islam anyway.
Mohammed changed the direction of worship from Jerusalem to Mecca in the year 624 AD which was commanded by Mohammed’s “the god” in surah 2:114-115, about 15-16 months after Mohammed moved to Medina. ( Heinz, Justin Paul (2008). The Origins of Muslim Prayer: Sixth and Seventh Century Religious Influences on the Salat Ritual. University of Missouri. p. 76 ) At that time the Kaaba was shrine dedicated to pagan idol god worship.
Mohammed the occupied Mecca around the year 629 AD (F.R. Shaikh, Chronology of Prophetic Events, Ta-Ha Publishers Ltd., London, 2001 pp. 3, 72, 134–136. ) Again at that time the Kaaba was a shrine dedicated to the worship of pagan idol gods. So Mohammed bowed down in worship for about 5 years to the Kaaba during which time the Kaaba was still full of pagan idol gods.
From Wikipedia >> The First Pilgrimage or Umrah of Dhu'l-Qada (Pilgrimage of the 11th month) was the first pilgrimage that the Islamic prophet Muhammad and the Muslims made after the Migration to Medina. It took place on the morning of the fourth day of Dhu al-Qi'dah 7 AH (629 CE), after the Treaty of Hudaybiyyah 6 AH (628 CE). The entire event was three days long.[1] << (Tafsir ibn Kathir)
Ar-Raḥīq Al-Makhtūm (Arabic: ٱلـرَّحِـيْـق ٱلْـمَـخْـتُـوْم, "The Sealed Nectar"), in the chapter The Compensatory ‘Umrah (Lesser Pilgrimage) the event is described as follows:
>> When Dhul Qa‘da month approached towards the close of the seventh year A.H., the Prophet ordered his people, and the men who witnessed Al-Hudaibiyah Truce Treaty in particular, to make preparations to perform the lesser pilgrimage. He proceeded with 2000 men besides some women and children [Fath Al-Bari 7/700], and 60 camels for sacrifice, to visit the Holy Sanctuary in Makkah. The Muslims took their weapons with them fearing the treachery of the Quraishites, but left them with a party of two hundred men at a place some eight miles from Makkah. They entered the city with the swords in their scabbards [Za'd Al-Ma'ad 2/151; Fath Al-Bari 7/700], with the Prophet at their head on his she-camel, Al-Qaswa’, while the surrounding Companions attentively focusing their look on him, all saying: "Here I am! at Your service O Allâh!" The Quraishites had left the place and retired to their tents on the adjoining hills. The Muslims performed the usual circumambulation vigorously and briskly; and on recommendation by the Prophet they did their best to appear strong and steadfast in their circumambulation as the polytheists had spread rumours that they were weak because the fever of Yathrib (Madinah) had sapped their strength. They were ordered to run in the first three rounds and then walk in the remaining ones. The Makkans meanwhile aligned on the top of Qu‘aiqa‘an Mount watching the Muslims, tongue-tied at witnessing their strength and devotion.<< ( Mubarakpuri, S. R., "The Compensatory 'Umrah (Lesser Pilgrimage)", Ar-Raḥīq Al-Makhtūm ("The Sealed Nectar"), archived from the original on 2011-08-20, retrieved 2006-07-25)
Here we read that Mohammed did the hajj just like the pagans did and whilst the Kaaba was still full of pagan idol gods.
I assume I don’t have to show you the source that Mohammed destroyed the idols in and around the Kaaba. But as we know today, the Kaaba as well as the black stone were not destroyed by Mohammed and from a hadiths from Umar we know that Mohammed kissed the black stone.
Here are some of the hadiths reported as regards the Black Stone:
1. Ibn `Abbas (may Allah be pleased with him) reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: “The Black Stone came down from Jannah (Paradise).” (At-Tirmidhi, Sunan, hadith no. 877, and classified as authentic hadith by Sheikh Al-Albaani in his book Sahih At-Tirmidthi, hadith no. 695 )
2. Ibn `Abbas (may Allah be pleased with him) also narrated that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: “When the Black Stone came down from Paradise, it was whiter than milk, but the sins of the sons of Adam made it black.” (At-Tirmidhi, Sunan)
3. Ibn `Abbas (may Allah be pleased with him) further related that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: “By Allah, Allah will bring it forth on the Day of Judgment, and it will have two eyes with which it will see and a tongue with which it will speak, and it will testify in favor of those who touched it in sincerity.” (At-Tirmidhi, Sunan)
4. Ibn `Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) quoted the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) as saying: “Touching them both [the Black Stone and Ar-Rukn Al-Yamani] is an expiation for one’s sins.” (At-Tirmidhi, Sunan, hadith no. 959. This hadith is classified as hasan by At-Tirmidhi and as Sahih by Al-Hakim (1/664), and Adh-Dhahabi agreed with him.)
Read More on islamonline: https://fiqh.islamonline.net/en/the-black-stone-history-and-significance/
No sure if I covered all the points, so if I missed something, then please let me know. But I assume you now know that the points I raised are all correct according to the sources. And that makes Mohammed a pagan idol god worshipper after the direction of worship was changed. So will you now leave islam my friend?
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So Sunnis and Shiites have been fighting each other for more than 1300 years and are still doing so today in Yemen, Sudan, Iran, Iraq, Syria etc. Not to mention the islamic terror organizations like Al-Shabab, Bokoharam, ISIS, Alqaida etc who rob, rape, commit adultery, enslave women and children just like Mohammed did. And yes, the Islamic debater and his followers started the violence and perpetrated the violence. All the issue you mention do not change this fact. So you sound very desperate to try and change the subject from this obviously very embarrassing event. Not only did the islamic debater clearly lose the debate and that to a Christian who is half his age but then the Muslim debater got violent and that on camera for all to see. It does show the true face of islam.
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@snf321gotti6 You say >> thank you for pointing out that 0.1 percent of that of the total words in the book can be read I different ways << In the more than 30 different Arabic qurans we can buy it states that Mohammed’s allah will guard his quran. As you agree the different qurans have verses that should be same but have different meanings. So did Mohammed lie that his allah would guard the quran as we see Mohammed’s allah did not do so, or was Mohammed’s allah not capable of guarding his quran? And of course even one difference between two different qurans would prove that the qurans have not been perfectly preserved. So 0,1 % differences between just two different Arabic quran shows a major failure in the preservation of the qurans. And then we have some 40 different Arabic qurans.
You say >> Your still not showing me 2 different books your just referring to the same book that is read in 2 ways << My friend, you seem rather confused. These two different qurans are not just read differently they have many verses that are written in a different way. And that my friend makes them two books. They even have different titles. The one is called a hafs quran and the other is called a warsh quran. So we have two books with different titles and many verses in them that have different meanings. Clearly the quran invented by Mohammed has not been preserved. Especially when we read that Uthman burnt all the originals. And then we read that even Uthmans qurans have all been lost. And then we read in the Islamic sources that more than 100 verses have been lost. And of course Uthman wrote one quran in one dialect, so who invented all the other qurans? So which source did Muslims trace all these diffferent qurans back to? Mohammed’s quran was burnt, Uthmans qurans have been lost. So which source are you talking about?
There is nothing hypothetical about the quran not having been preserved. The evidence we have factually as well as logically proves that the quran has not been guarded by Mohammed’s allah. That raises the following questions. If Mohammed lied about this then we have to ask what else did Mohammed lie about in the quran? This makes the qurans (plural) most unreliable as even the verses that are the same in all these qurans might not be what allah said via his angel but only be an invention by Mohammed. If Mohammed’s allah was not up to the task then he cannot be our Almighty God of the Bible which means that not one of the many different qurans can be from Mohammed’s allah.
You ask >> Well then how do you justify what the Bible is ???? << First of all, the Bible does not make the claim that it is the perfectly preserved direct revelation of God. So nobody would expect that the Bible has been perfectly preserved. And yes, some Christians claimed that the Bible was the inerrant Word of God, but nowhere in the Bible do we read this. So people made claims about the Bible that the Bible does not make. What should be believe? What people say or what is written in the Bible? I opt for believing what is written in the Bible and if people say something that contradicts what the Bible states then we know that the people are wrong in what they say. This is one of the many ways we know that Mohammed cannot be a prophet of our Almighty God of the Bible. Mohammed said something very different to what the Bible states.
So lets see what we do know about the Bible. We know from the Dead Sea Scrolls that what is taught in the Torah has been changed. And even though we do not have all of the books of the Old Testament, what we have shows that what is taught there has been changed either.
We have some 25.000 copies of copies of the New Testament which include some 5.000 handwritten copies of the Bible. And none of the changes in all these copies show any difference in what is taught in these copies. Even Bart Ehrman agrees that all the variances between all these thousands of copies show no difference in the theology taught in the New Testament. And remember there are many early translations of the NT as well a letters between the various churches, and none of them show a difference in theology.
And that is the difference between all these different qurans and all the variances in the Bible. The quran claims to be guarded by Mohammed’s allah but as the evidence shows this did not happen. On the other hand the Bible makes no claim that it is perfectly preserved but we find no difference in the theology taught. And that makes the Bible far more likely to be from God than the qurans.
In fact it is you who is trying to impose the claims Muslims make about the quran on the Bible. But when you dig a little deeper one sees that it is the quran that fails at all levels and the Bible comes out shining.
We read in the hadiths that some 20 years after Mohammed had died, different groups of Muslims recited the quran so differently that fights broke out between these groups as to who was reciting Mohammed's quran correctly. That shows that the memorization of the quran had failed completely just 20 years after Mohammed had died.
So Uthman rewrote the quran and made it one quran written in one dialect. Uthman then burnt all the originalswhich means nobody today has the quran according to Mohammed.
Today we know of some 40 different Arabic qurans, all written by unknown people after the time of Uthman. So the evidence is quite clear, the quran invented by Mohammed was burnt by Uthman, so nobody today knows what Mohammed actually said and the many different Arabic qurans we can buy clearly prove that all these qurans were corrupted.
And all of Uthmans qurans have been lost as well, so no-one can check what Uthman wrote. And we have Islamic sources that tell us that more than 100 verses of Surah 33 have been lost. And some sources tell us that the quran should have 111 surahs and other tell us that the quran should have 116 surahs. So did Muslims add surahs or did they delete them? So did Mohammed lie about his allah guarding the quran or was Mohammed's allah not capable of doing this?
So no, differences in the Bible are not any issue for Christian scholars, but differences in the quran are an issue due to the fact that different claims are made in the Bible and the quran. And as we see there are plenty and very significant differences in the many different qurans we can all buy.
But do tell me, why do you believe that following Mohammed will get you to heaven.
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@ferozmohamed5 Please do tell me, when did Mohammed order to destroy the Kaaba? Obviously Mohammed did not.
So tell me, why did Mohammed bow down in worship to the Kaaba just like the pagan idol worshipers did? And that at a time when the Kaaba was full of pagan idol gods. And why did Mohammed do the pilgrimage to the Kaaba just like the pagan idol god worshipers did at a time when the Kaaba was full of pagan idol gods? Why did Mohammed kiss the black stone like the pagan idol god worshipers did? And why did Mohammed walk around the Kaaba like the pagan idol god worshipers did? And why did Mohammed follow the prayer ritual of the pagan idol god worshipers? Clearly Mohammed followed the practices of the pagan idol god worshipers which in effect makes him an idol god worshipers irrespective if he destroyed the idols or not. And of course, with the exception of the Satanic verses, Mohammed always claimed to follow only one allah. So who was this allah who was happy to be worshiped as "the god" amongst 360 pagan idol gods?
But let us move on to your your point about the preservation of the quran.
We read in the hadiths that some 20 years after Mohammed had died, different groups of Muslims recited the quran so differently that fights broke out between these groups as to who was reciting Mohammed's quran correctly. That shows that the memorization of the quran had failed completely just 20 years after Mohammed had died. So your claim about the quran being preserved by memorization is false according to the Islamic sources.
So Uthman rewrote the quran and made it one quran written in one dialect. Uthman then burnt all the originals which means nobody today has the quran according to Mohammed.
Today we know of some 40 different Arabic qurans, all written by unknown people after the time of Uthman. So the evidence is quite clear, the quran invented by Mohammed was burnt by Uthman, so nobody today knows what Mohammed actually said and the many different Arabic qurans we can buy clearly prove that all these qurans were corrupted.
And all of Uthmans qurans have been lost as well, so no-one can check what Uthman wrote. And we have Islamic sources that tell us that more than 100 verses of Surah 33 have been lost. And some sources tell us that the quran should have 111 surahs and other tell us that the quran should have 116 surahs. So did Muslims add surahs or did they delete them? So did Mohammed lie about his allah guarding the quran or was Mohammed's allah not capable of doing this?
So your second point is proven fslse as well by the islamic sources. And not one of the sources claims that Non-Muslims had anything to do with it.
So tell me, why do you believe that following Mohammed will get you to heaven.
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I have read the hafs quran and some of the hadiths and found the following very disturbing about Mohammed and his allah:
- Islam teaches that child marriage is OK which implies child rape (Surah 65:4) which is evil. And Mohammed of course led by example when he raped a 9 year old little girl.
- Islam teaches that it is OK for a husband to beat his wife (Surah 4:34) which is evil.
- Islam teaches that it is OK to use women captured in war to be used and sold as sex slaves (Surah 33:50) which evil.
- Islam teaches that Christians and Jews must be fought until they have been killed (murdered) unless they submit to Islam and agree to be oppressed second class citizens in the own country (Surah 9:29) which is evil.
- Verily those who believe not [in Islam], among those who have received the scriptures [Jews and Christians], and among the idolaters, [shall be cast] into the fire of hell, to remain therein [for ever]. These are the worst of creatures. << Quran 98:6, So according to Mohammed Christians and Jews who reject Islam are the worst of creature.
- And the witness of a women is worth only half of that of a man. (Surah 2:282). That is an insult to all women.
- Surah 3:151: "We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve (all non-Muslims) …"
- Surah 2:191: "And kill them (non-Muslims) wherever you find them … kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers (non-Muslims)."
- Surah 9:5: "Then kill the disbelievers (non-Muslims) wherever you find them, capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush …
So that is my problem with the many different Arabic quran we can all buy. And we should always remember all of Islam is only what Mohammed maybe recited and how he lived.
Lets see what Jesus said:
- Jesus teaches in John 14:6 English Standard Version » 6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. «
So who needs Mohammed and his allah? Logically no-one, especially as Mohammed does not explain how anyone gets to heaven following what he recited or how he lived.
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@sunnyrainyday6820 My friend, you say >> I already explained to you why these 2 reading of the Quran exists. << All you did was to explain the fairy tale you believe in and nothing else.
Uthman burnt all the different versions of the quran invented by Mohammed and replaced them all with ONE quran written in only ONE dialect. So invented the different qurans that differ in MEANING my friend?
By the way, there is no evidence that any angel ever spoke to Mohammed. So at best you only have Mohammed’s word for it. So there is no evidence that any of the different versions of the quran invented by Mohammed came from Mohammed’s “the god” (that is all that allah means). And as the different versions all differ in MEANING, clearly we are not talking about the same quran. In fact we are not even talking about Uthmans one corrupted quran but about a whole lot of different corrupted qurans.
You say >> In order to refute the claim “The Quran is not perfectly preserved” you have to explain how you know more about Allah ﷻ ‘s book than Allah ﷻ himself. << Actually, all I have to show that I have two qurans that differ in MEANING in just one verse. And the hafs and the warsh quran I have differ in MEANING in a number of verses. So logically and factually I hold the evidence that the quran has not been preserved. The central tenets of Mohammed’s “the god” in the quran are not the issue here my friend.
You say >> For example if you can find God praying it would prove he’s not God, << We read that Mohammed’s “the god” prayer FOR Mohammed. So who did “the god” pray TO when he prayed FOR Mohammed?
And Mohammed’s “the god” did not even know that the sun did not set in a muddy pool, so clearly he is not GOD. Mohammed’s “the god” does not know that salt and fresh water mix as soon as they come together and that there is no barrier between them, so clearly he is not GOD. And Mohammed’s “the god” did not even know that there is no Uzair in Jewish theology, so clearly he is not GOD. All all these points disqualify Mohammed’s “the god” as being GOD.
And within the Trinity, the points you mentioned are not an issue at all. Jesus who is the Word of GOD which makes HIM GOD spoke to GOD the FATHER when HE prayed. The human body of Jesus died on the cross but not the divine, so again no problem. GOD the FATHER was there all the time and is there even today, so again no problem. So all you have shown is that you have no clue what Christians believe and only follow some islamic fairy tales when it comes to Jesus. Remember Jesus said that He and the Father are ONE GOD. So are you calling Jesus a liar my friend?
So tell me, why do you even believe that you will be with GOD in heaven on judgement day when you follow Mohammed? And do show the quran verses on which you base your belief. Remember our ONE TRUE GOD of the Bible promises every person that if they accept Jesus as their saviour and follow what Jesus commanded until they die, they will be with GOD in heaven. As Mohammed claimed to be the final prophet, surely he promised the same for people who follow Mohammed? If not where does it leave you my friend?
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Pact of Umar - what Muslims demand that Christians have to agree with when they live under Islamic rule.
• We the Christians will neither erect in our areas a monastery, church, or a sanctuary for a monk,
• Nor restore any place of worship that needs restoration
• Nor use any of them for the purpose of enmity against Muslims.
• We the Christians will not prevent any Muslim from resting in our churches whether they come by day or night,
and we will open the doors [of our houses of worship] for the wayfarer and passerby.
• Those Muslims who come as guests, will enjoy boarding and food for three days.
• We the Christians will not allow a spy against Muslims into our churches and homes or hide deceit [or betrayal] against Muslims.
• We will not teach our children the Qur'an,
• Publicize practices of Shirk (polytheism),
• Invite anyone to Shirk
or prevent any of our fellows from embracing Islam, if they choose to do so.
• We will respect Muslims,
• Move from the places we sit in if they choose to sit in them.
• We will not imitate their clothing, caps, turbans, sandals, hairstyles, speech, nicknames and title names,
or ride on saddles,
• Hang swords on the shoulders, collect weapons of any kind or carry these weapons.
• We will not encrypt our stamps in Arabic,
• or sell liquor.
• We will have the front of our hair cut,
• Wear our customary clothes wherever we are,
• Wear belts around our waist,
• Refrain from erecting crosses on the outside of our churches
• and demonstrating them and our books in public in Muslim fairways and markets.
• We will not sound the bells in our churches, except discretely,
• or raise our voices while reciting our holy books inside our churches in the presence of Muslims,
• Nor raise our voices [with prayer] at our funerals,
• or light torches in funeral processions in the fairways of Muslims, or their markets.
• We will not bury our dead next to Muslim dead,
• or buy servants who were captured by Muslims.
• We will be guides for Muslims and refrain from breaching their privacy in their homes.'
• We will not beat any Muslim.
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@DisgruntledNorwegian I assume our Muslims friend don't know that Uthman burnt all the different versions of the quran invented by Mohammed. So let me help them.
>> Narrated Anas bin Malik: Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman came to Uthman at the time when the people of Sham and the people of Iraq were Waging war to conquer Arminya and Adharbijan. Hudhaifa was afraid of their (the people of Sham and Iraq) differences in the recitation of the Qur'an, so he said to 'Uthman, "O chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book (Quran) as Jews and the Christians did before." So 'Uthman sent a message to Hafsa saying, "Send us the manuscripts of the Qur'an so that we may compile the Qur'anic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you." Hafsa sent it to 'Uthman. 'Uthman then ordered Zaid bin Thabit, 'Abdullah bin AzZubair, Said bin Al-As and 'AbdurRahman bin Harith bin Hisham to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies. 'Uthman said to the three Quraishi men, "In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Qur'an, then write it in the dialect of Quraish, the Qur'an was revealed in their tongue." They did so, and when they had written many copies, 'Uthman returned the original manuscripts to Hafsa. 'Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur'anic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt. Said bin Thabit added, "A Verse from Surat Ahzab was missed by me when we copied the Qur'an and I used to hear Allah's Apostle reciting it. So we searched for it and found it with Khuzaima bin Thabit Al-Ansari. (That Verse was): 'Among the Believers are men who have been true in their covenant with Allah.' (33.23) << . Sahih Bukhari 6:61:510
We read in the hadith Sahih Bukhari 6:61:510 that some 20 years AFTER Mohammed had died, different groups of Muslims recited the quran so differently that it was feared that fights would break out between these groups as to who was reciting Mohammed's quran correctly. That shows that the memorization of the quran had failed completely just 20 years after Mohammed had died as minor differences in pronunciation would not lead to fights.
So Uthman compiled the quran and made it ONE quran written in only ONE dialect. Uthman then burnt all the originals based on what Mohammed had recited which means NOBODY today has the quran according to the recitation of Mohammed. So you claim that Mohammed recited the quran in different modes is totally irrelevant as NOBODY today has any one of the recitation of Mohammed.
Today we know of some 40 different Arabic versions of the quran, all written by unknown people AFTER the time of Uthman. So the evidence is quite clear, the quran invented by Mohammed was burnt by Uthman, so nobody today knows what Mohammed actually said and the many different Arabic qurans we can buy clearly prove that all these modern qurans are corrupted as they differ in MEANING. And differences in accent does not change the meaning.
And all of Uthmans qurans have been lost as well, so no-one can check what Uthman wrote. And we have Islamic sources that tell us that more than 200 verses of Surah 33 have been lost. And some sources tell us that the quran should have 111 surahs and other tell us that the quran should have 116 surahs. So did Muslims add surahs or did they delete them and what happened to the missing verses of surah 33? So did Mohammed lie about his allah guarding the quran or was Mohammed's allah not capable of doing this? Again this all shows that the quran was NOT preserved which means that Mohammed was a false prophet.
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@kimiyoo5826 Surah 5:72 >> They have certainly disbelieved who say, "Allāh is the Messiah, the son of Mary" while the Messiah has said, "O Children of Israel, worship Allāh, my Lord and your Lord." Indeed, he who associates others with Allāh - Allāh has forbidden him Paradise, and his refuge is the Fire. And there are not for the wrongdoers any helpers. << — Saheeh International
Now we see that in the Shahada Muslims associate Mohammed as a partner to his allah. That means that according to this verse no Muslims will ever get to Mohammed's paradise.
Surah 5:73 >> They have certainly disbelieved who say, "Allāh is the third of three."1 And there is no god except one God. And if they do not desist from what they are saying, there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment. << — Saheeh International
No Christians believes that the ONE TRUE GOD of the Bible is "the third of three", Clearly Mohammed and his allah did not understand what Christians believe which proves that Mohammed was a FALSE prophet.
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@kimiyoo5826 We read that in the year 624 AD Mohammed changed the direction of prayer from Jerusalem to the Kaaba because Mohammed’s allah commanded Mohammed to do so. At that time the Kaaba was a place of pagan idol worship. So Mohammed bowed down in worship to a place where pagans worshipped some 360 idol gods at that time. We know from the Bible that our God of the Bible, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jakob would never have commanded or even condoned that one of His prophets would bow down in worship to a place where pagan idols were being worshipped. So clearly Mohammed’s allah is not the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jakob. So who is Mohammed’s allah who is happy to be worshipped as “the god” amongst some 360 pagan idol gods? All we know for certain is, that Mohammed’s allah is not our ONE TRUE GOD of the Bible.
So the many different Arabic qurans we can buy are only based on what Mohammed maybe said. In fact Mohammed’s message is the first and only message of Mohammed and his allah. Our ONE TRUE GOD of the Bible certainly had nothing to do with what Mohammed maybe recited.
And of course Jesus tells us the only way to heaven, so why would anyone need an evil war-lord who robbed, raped, murdered, committed adultery, tortured and enslaved women and little children and who corrupted what our TRUE GOD of the Bible taught? Obviously nobody needs Mohammed and the evil he taught.
The only one who is very confused is you my friend. Of course Christians believe in the OT and everybody knows that the OT was written before Jesus came to us here on earth. So why do you reject the Torah and the Gospel? According to the qurans (plural) the Bible is the unchanged Word of God. And according to the Old Testament as well as the Gospel Mohammed was a false prophet. So why do you not follow what God teaches in the Bible?
But do tell me, why do you believe that following Mohammed who is the only messenger of islam will get you are anyone else to heaven? I must have missed the verse in the quran that states >> if you follow Mohammed then you will get to heaven and be with God for all eternity <<
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@kimiyoo5826 I read the Bible were it clearly states that camel meat is as unclean as pork (Leviticus 11:1-7). So even you admit that the quran cannot be from God as it allows something that is forbidden in the Law of Moses. And as Mohammed forbade the eating of pork, he clearly decided to follow the Law of Moses. And as Jesus said, not a single letter or dot of the law of Moses will be discarded. So either Mohammed followed the Law of Moses which means all of it which would include not eating camel meat. Or Mohammed made up his own law which we know cannot be from God. So either Mohammed was not a prophet of our GOD of the Bible as he did not follow the Law of Moses (or the commandments of Jesus) or Mohammed was not a prophet of God because he changed the law of Moses and did not follow the commandments of Jesus. Either way Mohammed was not a prophet of God.
So again I ask you, who is “the god” that Mohammed talks about? And do remember “allah” only means “the god” in Arabic. All I know for sure is that Mohammed’s “the god” is not our ONE TRUE GOD of the Bible. And of course as we can all buy more than 30 different Arabic qurans today, Mohammed’s “the god” could not even guard his quran. And by the way, from the sources we have we know that what our God of the Bible teaches in the Bible has not changed in the last 2000 years.
In Surah 3:3 Mohammed tells us that God revealed the Torah and the Gospel, which of course make them the Word of God as that is how God reveals. And in Surah 6:115 Mohammed tells us that none can change the Word of God. Logically according to the quran, the Torah and the Gospel we have today must be the original Word of God. So we all (you included) should read the Word of God in the Torah and the Gospel.
I have read the hafs quran which is full of contradictions, so which quran do you use when you say your quran does not have any contradictions? And do remember surah 21:30 (all living things are made from water) contradicts surah 55:15 (jinn who are living things, are not made of water but of the flame of a smokeless fire). I did read the hafs quran carefully and found it to be full of mistakes and contradictions.
So tell me, why do you believe that following Mohammed who was the only messenger of islam will get you or anyone else to heaven?
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@kimiyoo5826 Most people in the whole world at the time of Mohammed could not read and write. So why would anyone believe that Mohammed was stupid because he could not read and write?
The quran clearly states that Mohammed made no miracles, so any claim that Mohammed did miracles proves that the quran is false.
If you actually knew something about mathematics then you would quickly realize that there are no mathematical miracles in the quran.
Now why would you reject the Bible my friend? In Surah 3:3 Mohammed tells us that God revealed the Torah and the Gospel, which of course make them the Word of God as that is how God reveals. And in Surah 6:115 Mohammed tells us that none can change the Word of God. Logically according to the quran, the Torah and the Gospel we have today must be the original Word of God. So are you saying that the quran is false?
And why would I hate a book, just because it logically must be false? If you are a Muslim then you should believe that the Bible is true because the quran states that the Bible is true. And that is where Muslims face one of the many dilemmas of the quran. You see the quran clearly states that the Bible is the revealed and unchanged Word of God, yet the quran contradicts the Bible. So if the Bible is true, then as the Bible contradicts the quran, which proves that the quran must be false. On the other hand, if the Bible is false then, as the quran states that the Bible is true, it proves that the quran must be false. Irrespective if the Bible is true or false, it proves that according to the quran, we know that the quran must be false. So why do you follow a book that logically must be false?
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@kimiyoo5826 My friend, I understand perfectly well what you are saying, I just do not agree with it.
Why do you even mention that Mohammed could not read and write? Mohammed could speak and so he could recite and he recited the quran, that is what islam teaches. There were plenty of poets in Arabic and they all recited their poetry, could they all read and write? Of course not, so where did they get all their poetry from?
There are plenty of different qurans. The two very different qurans I have here at home are all full of mistakes and contradictions. That alone proves that they are no miracle at all.
I mention Surah 3:3 because you believe in the quran. Or are you telling me that you do not believe in any one of the many different qurans we can all buy?
Actually Mohammed was so ignorant that he did not even know what the Bible (library of books) all contains. Mohammed seemed to only know about the Torah, the Psalms and the Gospel. But then the Torah and the Gospel are the two main parts of the Bible. And we read in Surah 3:3 >> He hath revealed unto thee the Scripture with truth, confirming that which was (revealed) before it, even as He revealed the Torah and the Gospel. « — English Translation (Pickthall)
So here we read that God has revealed in truth the scriptures which were revealed before the quran. The scriptures that were revealed beforehand by God was the Bible. Mohammed then refers specifically to the Torah and the Gospel which are the two major parts of the Bible. So the Bible (Scriptures revealed beforehand in truth) must be the Word of God as that is how God reveals. And in Surah 6:115 we read that “none can change the Word of God”. So according to the quran, the Torah and the Gospel we have today must be the same as the original. So the qurans (plural) all say that the Torah and the Gospel we have today are part of the Christian Bible. Did YOU get this?
I and do not attack you, I only tell you what is mentioned in the quran and the hadiths.
You say >> it's clear that the jesus in the bible is Lucifer not prophet jesus. << Do explain on what you base this assumption of yours. And do show which verses you are referring to. May I suggest that you actually read those verses and the context. I assume you do not refer to these verses as you have never read them.
You say >> why did churches burn your own Bible << You seem confused, it was Uthman who burnt the original qurans which were based on what Mohammed recited. Or do you not know that Uthman burnt all the qurans and replaced Mohammed’s qurans which his own quran?
You say I should defend the Word of God. So you agree that the quran is false? Now if you want me to explain a Bible verse to you, then you have to show the verse you are referring to.
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@kimiyoo5826 We read in the most authentic islamic source the following:
>> Narrated Anas bin Malik: Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman came to Uthman at the time when the people of Sham and the people of Iraq were Waging war to conquer Arminya and Adharbijan. Hudhaifa was afraid of their (the people of Sham and Iraq) differences in the recitation of the Qur'an, so he said to 'Uthman, "O chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book (Quran) as Jews and the Christians did before." So 'Uthman sent a message to Hafsa saying, "Send us the manuscripts of the Qur'an so that we may compile the Qur'anic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you." Hafsa sent it to 'Uthman. 'Uthman then ordered Zaid bin Thabit, 'Abdullah bin AzZubair, Said bin Al-As and 'AbdurRahman bin Harith bin Hisham to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies. 'Uthman said to the three Quraishi men, "In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Qur'an, then write it in the dialect of Quraish, the Qur'an was revealed in their tongue." They did so, and when they had written many copies, 'Uthman returned the original manuscripts to Hafsa. 'Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur'anic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt. Said bin Thabit added, "A Verse from Surat Ahzab was missed by me when we copied the Qur'an and I used to hear Allah's Apostle reciting it. So we searched for it and found it with Khuzaima bin Thabit Al-Ansari. (That Verse was): 'Among the Believers are men who have been true in their covenant with Allah.' (33.23) << Sahih Bukhari 6:61:510.
Here we read that at the time of Uthman different groups of Muslims were reciting “the quran” so differently that it was feared that fights would break between these groups. This required Uthman to put the quran into writing. This tells us that the memorization of the quran had failed completely just 20 years after Mohammed had died.
Then we read that Uthman wrote ONE quran in ONE dialect (not seven) and then BURNT all the original qurans that were based on what Mohammed has recited. Of course we see that Hafsas quran was incomplete and we see in other islamic sources that there are more than 100 verses were lost from just surah 33. And all of the Uthmanic qurans have been lost as well.
And as we can buy more than 30 different ARABIC qurans today, we know that they must all be corrupted.
So can you tell me, why do you believe that following Mohammed will get you to Gods heaven? And do remember Mohammed is the only messenger of islam. And do please provide the quran verses on which you base your belief.
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@kimiyoo5826 Where does the Bible say that it is a “perfect” book? I must have missed that verse when I read it and I certainly never made that claim. Now what God teaches us is perfect as it ensures that we can all make it to heaven if we accept Gods plan for our salvation. On the other we can of course reject God. Your choice my friend.
On the other hand we read in Surah 15:9 >> Indeed, it is We who sent down the message [i.e., the Qur’ān], and indeed, We will be its guardian. « — Saheeh International. As we can buy more than 30 different Arabic qurans today we know that “the quran” (the one revealed by Mohammed) has not been guarded by Mohammed’s allah. So tell me, was Mohammed lying about this or was Mohammed’s allah not capable? So tell me, why do you still believe in the quran you use? And of course which quran do you use and why that one?
So lets us look at the age of Jehoiachin when he became King.
>> Commentators on these verses explain that Jehoiachin was, in fact, crowned twice. Shortly after Jehoiachin’s father, Jehoiakim, began his reign, he (or the king of Egypt) crowned his eight-year-old son as heir to the throne, to ensure that Jehoiachin would become king after him.
Jehoiakim himself had to wrest the throne (with the help of the King of Egypt) from his younger brother, Jehoahaz. As a result, Jehoiakim wanted to ensure that his firstborn would be firmly ensconced on the throne before his own death.
When Jehoiachin was eighteen, Jehoiakim died and Jehoiachin in fact took the throne. <<
https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1452602/jewish/How-Old-Was-Jehoiachin.htm
This is the Jewish explanation and as it does not change what God teaches about His plan for our salvation, the issue you raised is totally irrelevant to Jews or Christians.
Now for your question. In Surah 18:86 >> Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness. « — English Translation (Pickthall)
So here we read in the quran that Dhul Qurneyn found the sun setting in muddy spring. You really believe that the sun sets in a muddy spring where people live nearby?
And by the way, I follow our God of the Bible, so that guarantees me a place in heaven. What will happen to you on judgement day?
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@kimiyoo5826 Your English is OK. Again you understood perfectly well what I said and that was that Christianity stopped the slavery in the islamic counties and especially in the Middle East. And Christianity stopped slavery because it is evil and no because anyone fought back.
Marriage in islam is like slavery for the women. Have you not read even one quran that you do not know this? And in Europe women can do any job they want to and do not need some man to marry them for them to have an existence.
From Wikipedia:
>> The Muslim slave trade was most active in west Asia, eastern Europe and sub-Saharan Africa. Muslim traders exported as many as 17 million slaves to the coast of the Indian Ocean, the Middle East, and North Africa.[13] Abolitionist movements began to grow during the 19th century, prompted by both Muslim reformers and diplomatic pressure from Britain. The first Muslim country to prohibit slavery was Tunisia, in 1846.[14] During the 19th and early 20th centuries all large Muslim countries, whether independent or under colonial rule, banned the slave trade and/or slavery. The Dutch East Indies abolished slavery in 1860, while British India abolished slavery in 1862.[15] The Ottoman Empire banned the African slave trade in 1857 and the Circassian slave trade in 1908,[16] while Egypt abolished slavery in 1895, Afghanistan in 1921 and Persia in 1929.[17] In some Muslim countries in the Arabian peninsula and Africa, slavery was abolished in the second half of the 20th century due to the pressure of the British and French: 1962 in Saudi Arabia and Yemen, Oman in 1970, Mauritania in 1981.[18] However, slavery has been documented in recent years, despite its illegality, in Muslim-majority countries in Africa including Chad, Mauritania, Niger, Mali, and Sudan.[19][20] <<
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مسائل اسلامية Your logic is of course totally off course. You cannot understand the quran without the hadiths. If the hadiths were of no importance, why have Muslims developed what they call “a science” to analyse these hadiths? And there is only the Bible which qualifies as source of Gods teaching. There are no hadiths required to understand what God teaches in the Bible.
>> Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death). << Sahih Bukhari 7:62:64.
So here we have the most authentic islamic source telling us that Mohammed married a 6 year old child and then had sex with that child when it was just 9 years old. Now sex with a child is rape which is evil, immoral and disgusting. So according to the most authentic islamic sources Mohammed was an evil child rapist and disgusting pervert.
Now your turn, show Christian sources that have a similar authenticity like the islamic hadiths have for islam. And do name the Bible verses you refer to, I will gladly explain to you how you have been lied to about what they they really say. Of course the content of the Bible or the content of some other Christian sources does not change the fact that Mohammed was an evil child rapist and disgusting pervert. Yet today billions of people follow Mohammed.
Christians follow Jesus, who never had a slave, never killed anyone, never raped anyone, never tortured anyone, never committed adultery, all which Mohammed did. So who is the better example to follow my friend?
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مسائل اسلامية Lets see how you will try and justify Mohammed being an evil child rapist and disgusting pervert.
You say >> christians don't have a book to start with even the Bible is not the direct word of God, <<
First of all this does not change the fact that according to the islamic sources Mohammed was an evil child rapist and disgusting pervert. And that my friend makes you look very desperate to try and change the subject. Of course you seem very ignorant as to what Mohammed taught in the quran. In Surah 3:3 Mohammed tells us that God revealed the Torah and the Gospel, which of course make them the Word of God as that is how God reveals. And in Surah 6:115 Mohammed tells us that none can change the Word of God. Logically according to the quran, the Torah and the Gospel we have today must be the original Word of God. And the Torah and the Gospel are the two main parts of the Bible. So besides Mohammed being an evil child rapist and disgusting pervert are you telling us that Mohammed made a mistake in the many different Arabic qurans we can buy?
And you have been lied to my friend, Matthew and John and Peter and James and Jude all knew Jesus and were eye-witnesses to what they wrote down. And we know that the Gospel was written down during the time when there were eye-witnesses alive. And do look up what was discussed at the council of Nicaea, it is well documented.
On the other hand can you show me a quran written by Mohammed? Of course not, as he could not even read or write. So can you show me a quran written by someone who was with Mohammed always during the 23 years Mohammed claimed to be a messenger of his allah? Of course not. So there is not even one complete quran today from the time of Mohammed. How do we know this? We have a sahih hadith that tells us that Uthman burnt all the original writings based on what Mohammed maybe recited. And Uthman replaced the many different recitations of what people claimed to have come from Mohammed and replaced it with his own new quran written in only one dialect.
Problem is that Uthmans quran and its copies have also all been lost and as we can buy more than 30 different Arabic qurans today we know 100% that they all must be corrupted. And of course nobody knows who wrote any one of these many different qurans. Or can you tell me who were the authors of all these many different Arabic qurans? And what were their interest and objections when they rewrote Uthmans quran? And is that the reason why in each of these qurans there are so many mistakes and contradictions my friend? Following your logic, that proves that all these different Arabic qurans written by unknown authors and being full of mistakes and contradictions cannot be from God.
So tell me why do you follow one of these qurans that according to you cannot come from God?
The scholars of the Bible have more than 25.000 manuscripts to study including some 5000 complete handwritten Bibles as well as some 10.000 translations. And all of them teach the same message of God. And of course not one Biblical scholar has discarded even one of these manuscripts as false. The hadiths writer who only recorded the hadiths some 200 years after Mohammed lived discarded more than 98% of the hadiths in circulation in their time as false. So why did they not discard the sahih hadiths (plural) that confirmed that Mohammed married a 6 year old child and then raped that child when it was just 9 years old? They did not discard these hadiths because they were convinced that they were true. So tell me, why do you believe that following an evil child rapist will get anyone to heaven?
So I challenge you again, show where in the Bible it gives the age of Mary and Joseph. And do show the scholars who you claim say that Mary was around 12 years old. I take you are asking me to research for myself because you know just like I know that nowhere is Mary’s age reliably given. And of course the video link you posted, only makes an assumption and nothing else. But lets assume Mary was 12 years old, that makes 33% older than when Mohammed raped prepubescent 9 year old little Aisha. So you really believe that by referring to Mary that justifies Mohammed raping a little prepubescent 9 year old child?
Lets see what the Bible says about Rebecca. Genesis 24:15-19 Expanded Bible » 15 Before the servant had finished ·praying [L speaking], Rebekah, the daughter of Bethuel, came out of the city. (Bethuel was the son of Milcah and Nahor, Abraham’s brother [11:27–30].) Rebekah was carrying her water jar on her shoulder. 16 She was ·very pretty [extremely beautiful], a virgin; she had never ·had sexual relations with [L known] a man. She went down to the spring and filled her jar, then came back up. 17 The servant ran to her and said, “Please give me a little ·water [sip] from your jar.”
18 Rebekah said, “Drink, ·sir [my master].” She quickly lowered the jar ·from her shoulder [L on her hand] and gave him a drink. 19 After ·he finished drinking [L she let him drink all he wanted], Rebekah said, “I will also pour some water for your camels [L until they have finished drinking].” <<
By the way the Book of Jasher is not part of the Bible. So does Genesis 24:15-19 sound as if Rebecca was just 3 or even just 10 years old??
You say >> or is that ok for Issac and god, but not for Muhammed peace be upon all the prophets. « And of course nobody today follows Isaac, and I assume you do not actually suggest that Mohammed is the same as our ONE TRUE GOD of the Bible? So why are you comparing Mohammed with Isaac and of course why do you suggest that Mohammed is the same as God?
You say >> I'm providing you from what you believe to be "God's word" while you are not providing me from what I believe to be "God's words", << So let me help you. In Surah 65:4 we read about divorce. The first part speaks about older women who have stopped menstruating. The next part >> and [also for] those who have not menstruated. … << So who are those wives who have not menstruated?? That refers to prepubescent children.
Logically a Muslim man cannot divorce a wife if he has not married her. So marrying prepubescent children is approved in Islam by Mohammed and his allah. And marrying children means having sex with children which is raping children and that is evil. So here we have Mohammed and his allah approving of Muslim men raping little girls which proves that Mohammed was never a prophet of our Almighty God of the Bible.
You refer to Numbers 31:17-18, so what is your point? Or are you saying that God does not have the right to destroy his creation?
You say as a Muslim you believe that Jesus never killed, raped, committed adultery or tortured anyone. Yet according to the islamic sources we know that Mohammed did all these things. So again tell me, why do you believe that following Mohammed will get you to heaven?
As Christians know that Jesus is the Word of God which makes Him God, we accept that God has the right to judge all human beings. And as you correctly show in 1 Samuel 15:3, our God is not this placid merciful God that Mohammed claimed his allah is. Just think what will happen to all those people who have rejected Gods plan for our salvation when we see what He did to the Amalekites for just fighting the Jews. What do you think will happen to you on judgement day?
You mention that Mary became distressed when she met an angel. You obviously have no clue how powerful God is and I certainly would get distressed if an angel came to me.
You say >> I don't believe such things that degrade God, Jesus, and Marry to the point that I just stated, « I fact you insult God, by criticising His actions, you insult Mary and you insult Jesus and of course you make Mohammed equal to God. I wonder how God will view that on judgement day.
I certainly do not believe that anyone in their complete mind would insult God and imply that Mohammed was equal to God. And of course our God has given us a free will. God gave us the choice to accept His plan for our salvation or we can reject God. Your choice my friend.
And by the way, not one of the points you raised changes the fact that Mohammed was an evil child rapist and disgusting pervert which proves that Mohammed was never a prophet of God.
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مسائل اسلامية My dear friend, it was you who jumped the topics and I only answered you. So if you want to stick to one topic, then lets go back to the original which was that Mohammed raped a 9 year old child. And when we read Surah 65:4 we see that here it implies that Mohammed and his allah approved of marrying prepubescent little girls (those who have not menstruated) which in turn implies that Mohammed and his allah approved of raping little girls. You did not answer why would thought such a disgusting and evil person like Mohammed could even be a prophet of God.
You say >> I notice you didn’t reply to how disgusting and evil rape is when Isaac did it, << As you have failed to show that Isaac raped anybody, what is there to answer?
You say >> or when your god decided to enter a girls uterus without her consent, << Mary did consent (Luke 1:38). You say “your god” referring to my God, does that mean that you agree that Mohammed’s allah is a different god to our Almighty God of the Bible? That would mean you believe in at least two gods, namely Mohammed’s allah as well as our ONE TRUE GOD of the Bible who is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. That makes you a polytheist. On the other hand if you believe that Mohammed’s allah is the same as our ONE TRUE GOD of the Bible, then you are blaspheming and I wonder how you will answer that on judgement day.
You say >> At the very least prophet Muhammed got consent from Aisha and her parents, << A 6 year old child cannot give consent to something that she does not understand. So Aisha did not give her consent. As we know that all the hair on Aishas head fell out, so it seems that she was very distressed at the thought of Mohammed marrying her. And of course Abu Bakr did not want Mohammed to marry Aisha, but Mohammed insisted.
You say >> you also didn’t reply to the evilness, violence, and cold blooded of your hod and Bible killing innocent children, pregnant women, and even animals. << Are you saying our ONE TRUE GOD of the Bible does not have the right to do with His creation as he pleases? And our ONE TRUE GOD of the Bible does not have the right to punish evil people? Is that what you believe? Remember, this is how our ONE TRUE GOD of the Bible dealt with the people God judged to be sinners. So you know what awaits you on judgement day. So tell me, do you really believe that you as a simple human being can prescribe to God what he can or cannot do?
So Bart Ehrman, who is an atheist, is the best you can come up with? You do know that Bart Ehrman clearly says that Jesus died on cross, so Bart Ehrman who you say we should listen to, clearly states that islam is false. So will you believe him that Jesus died on the cross, after all you said that he is the expert. On the other hand, if you do not believe him, why should I?
You say >> Don’t believe all the lies you been told, << So far you have not shown even one lie that I might have been told. So why lets hear at least one lie and why you consider it to be a lie.
And again, you are the one who is jumping from one topic to another and I am only following you. So answer, why do you believe that an evil child rapist and disgusting pervert was a prophet of our ONE TRUE GOD of the Bible?
So tell me, why do you believe that following Mohammed will get you to heaven? And remember Mohammed is the only messenger of islam.
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I have read the hafs quran and some of the hadiths and found the following very disturbing about Mohammed and his allah:
- Islam teaches that child marriage is OK which implies child rape (Surah 65:4) which is evil. And Mohammed of course led by example when he raped a 9 year old little girl.
- Islam teaches that it is OK for a husband to beat his wife (Surah 4:34) which is evil.
- Islam teaches that it is OK to use women captured in war to be used and sold as sex slaves (Surah 33:50) which evil.
- Islam teaches that Christians and Jews must be fought until they have been killed (murdered) unless they submit to Islam and agree to be oppressed second class citizens in the own country (Surah 9:29) which is evil.
- Verily those who believe not [in Islam], among those who have received the scriptures [Jews and Christians], and among the idolaters, [shall be cast] into the fire of hell, to remain therein [for ever]. These are the worst of creatures. << Quran 98:6, So according to Mohammed Christians and Jews who reject Islam are the worst of creature.
- And the witness of a women is worth only half of that of a man. (Surah 2:282). That is an insult to all women.
- Surah 3:151: "We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve (all non-Muslims) …"
- Surah 2:191: "And kill them (non-Muslims) wherever you find them … kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers (non-Muslims)."
- Surah 9:5: "Then kill the disbelievers (non-Muslims) wherever you find them, capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush …
So that is my problem with the many different Arabic quran we can all buy. And we should always remember all of Islam is only what Mohammed maybe recited and how he lived.
Lets see what Jesus said:
- Jesus teaches in John 14:6 English Standard Version » 6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. «
So who needs Mohammed and his allah? Logically no-one, especially as Mohammed does not explain how anyone gets to heaven following what he recited or how he lived.
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cdkablan5677 You should get your knowledge about the quran up to date before you worry about the Bible my friend. Of course if you are so embarrassed by the Mohammed and the evil he approved that you try and change the subject then I can understand your questions. Here a list of the 40 different Arabic qurans that are known.
1, Qaloon Qur'an
2, Al- susi(ibn-katheer) Qur'an
3,Khaled QUR'AN
4,Idrees QUR'AN
5,warsh Qur'an
6, Hafs Ad- Dury (Abu - Amro alBasri) QUR'AN 7,Al- Laith QUR'AN
8,Al- Bazzi Qur'an
9,Al- Azraq QUR'AN
10,As - Susi (Abu Amro alBasri) QUR'AN
11,Ad - Dury(alkisa'i) QUR'AN
12, Ibn shanboodh Qur'an
13,Al- Asbahaani QUR'AN
14,Hisham QUR'AN
15,Ibn Dhakwan QUR'AN
16,Isa BinWardan QUR'AN
17,Sulayman QUR'AN
18, Ibn Jammaz QUR'AN
19,Ahmad bin Farah QUR'AN
20,Qunbul Qur'an
21,Showba QUR'AN
22, Ruwais QUR'AN
23,Shujaa' bin Abi Nasr Al- Balakhi QUR'AN
24, Abu Amro Al -Ala QUR'AN
25,Hafs QUR'AN 1924 Cairo edition
26, Sana QUR'AN
27, Al- Dury(Al Hasan AlBasri) QUR'AN
28, Hafs Al - Dury(ibn kathir) QUR'AN
29,khalf QUR'AN
30,Ishaq QUR'AN
31,Al Hasan bin Said Al- Matuu'l QUR'AN
32, Abu- Farah Al- Shan - budhi QUR'AN
33,Ibn Masud QUR'AN
34,Ubai kab QUR'AN
35, Ruh QUR'AN
36,Abu Musa QUR'AN
37,Hafs QUR'AN 1982 edition
38, Ibn Abbas QUR'AN
39,Topkapi Qur'an
40, Samarkand Kufic Qur'an
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>> Narrated Anas bin Malik: Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman came to Uthman at the time when the people of Sham and the people of Iraq were Waging war to conquer Arminya and Adharbijan. Hudhaifa was afraid of their (the people of Sham and Iraq) differences in the recitation of the Qur'an, so he said to 'Uthman, "O chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book (Quran) as Jews and the Christians did before." So 'Uthman sent a message to Hafsa saying, "Send us the manuscripts of the Qur'an so that we may compile the Qur'anic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you." Hafsa sent it to 'Uthman. 'Uthman then ordered Zaid bin Thabit, 'Abdullah bin AzZubair, Said bin Al-As and 'AbdurRahman bin Harith bin Hisham to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies. 'Uthman said to the three Quraishi men, "In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Qur'an, then write it in the dialect of Quraish, the Qur'an was revealed in their tongue." They did so, and when they had written many copies, 'Uthman returned the original manuscripts to Hafsa. 'Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur'anic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt. Said bin Thabit added, "A Verse from Surat Ahzab was missed by me when we copied the Qur'an and I used to hear Allah's Apostle reciting it. So we searched for it and found it with Khuzaima bin Thabit Al-Ansari. (That Verse was): 'Among the Believers are men who have been true in their covenant with Allah.' (33.23) << . Sahih Bukhari 6:61:510
We read in the hadith Sahih Bukhari 6:61:510 that some 20 years after Mohammed had died, different groups of Muslims recited the quran so differently that it was feared that fights would break out between these groups as to who was reciting Mohammed's quran correctly. That shows that the memorization of the quran had failed completely just 20 years after Mohammed had died.
So Uthman compiled the quran and made it ONE quran written in ONE dialect. Uthman then burnt all the originals which means nobody today has the quran according to Mohammed.
Today we know of some 40 different Arabic versions of the quran, all written by unknown people after the time of Uthman. So the evidence is quite clear, the quran invented by Mohammed was burnt by Uthman, so nobody today knows what Mohammed actually said and the many different Arabic qurans we can buy clearly prove that all these qurans were corrupted.
And all of Uthmans qurans have been lost as well, so no-one can check what Uthman wrote. And we have Islamic sources that tell us that more than 100 verses of Surah 33 have been lost. And some sources tell us that the quran should have 111 surahs and other tell us that the quran should have 116 surahs. So did Muslims add surahs or did they delete them? So did Mohammed lie about his allah guarding the quran or was Mohammed's allah not capable of doing this?
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