Comments by "Iazzaboyce" (@Iazzaboyce) on "A Different Bias" channel.

  1. Isn't Martin Reynolds the privately educated Cambridge University lawyer who spent years at the top of the civil service working to make the UK part of a federal Europe? Isn't he the highly experienced and competent legal expert who wrote the lockdown party invitation containing the phrase: "bring your own booze"? I wonder which way he thought that would pan-out?
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  2. Brexiteer was walking along a path and he met someone walking toward him. 'You must be a Remainer' said the Brexiteer 'Yes I am' said the Remainer 'But how did you know' asked the Remainer .... 'You are going the wrong way' answered the Brexiteer.
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  3. BLM supporters are the true racists made up of BAME people who hate white people and white people conflicted with their inner feelings. Normal people are not bothered about race.
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  4. Under European legislation in 2000, it became a legal requirement to weigh and measure loose goods in metric and to provide metric price labelling. This meant every fishmonger, butcher or greengrocer must use metric weighing machines and provide a metric unit price. Steve Thoburn, a Sunderland market trader, was convicted for selling goods only in imperial measures in 2001. A number of traders, supported by the UK Independence Party, tried to challenge the Price Marking Order, claiming it was unconstitutional and infringed their human rights. All their arguments were rejected by the UK Courts and by the European Court of Human Rights (to which they appealed).
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  5.  @iandennis7836  If you actually think about this - you will see that we weigh ourselves in stones and pounds - we measure our height in feet and inches - we travel in miles per hour - we buy petrol in gallons and we drink beer in pints.... But why let thinking interfere with remoaning?
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  6. So the reason you do not support the leader of the party of which you are member, is because he hasn't managed to get the support of some members of your party.... That's idiotic!
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  7.  @maxharbig1167  You sound like a dumped ex telling everyone they will not accept their ex back when there's zero chance of it happening. The UK people told the EU to get lost and the UK people will never vote to rejoin.
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  8.  @Rbourk252  Not sure what your point is - there was a referendum in which both sides voted. You seem to think everybody should have to do what your late grandad and you want.
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  9. I suppose Boris was under restraint as London Mayor.... Now, he just has to say: 'Get on with it!' And we're driving from Scotland to Northern Ireland in under an hour...
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  10. Starmer is an EU supporter, but he and the EU know their 'UK' dream is over. There would have to be a re-join referendum and politicians know that is unwinnable. The only reason there was not a second referendum was pro-EU MPs knew it would make things worse for them.
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  11.  @olearyma57  We deal in Pounds which is the oldest currency in the world.
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  12.  @scottanderson2458  So, US imperial works because it's a bit different from English - I see where you're coming from...
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  13.  @isabelstokes4042  I'm living in the same country as you are: Great Britain.
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  14. Exactly! They tried to scare people with lies into voting Remain and now it's backfired spectacularly - leaving them very silent and caught out. They will always wonder what might have happened had they went with a positive message about the EU.
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  15.  @jiversteve  You should try seeing it through the eyes of the millions who was born in the UK and have struggled to find work and housing. What - you think 3 million EU workers in the UK don't elbow their way into available work and housing? We have more unemployed people and more homeless people, lower wages and higher housing costs, because of EU membership we never wanted. You claim old people with out-of-date ideas voted for Brexit and these people are dying-off - So how would the country have voted on the Maastricht Treaty had they been allowed? Perhaps you're OK - so you don't see a problem.
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  16. I think it's Keir Starmer who doesn't want to touch rejoin with a bargepole, because he knows losing twice would make him look even more silly.
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  17. I wish we were still in the EU - I could become an MEP and get a free suitcase full of used banknotes from Qatar officials.
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  18. Does Phil realise we can hear what he says? "Take me for example - I want to re-join the EU with all haste, but I could not give the following response to a survey": ["We were wrong to leave the EU and should concentrate on reversing that decision as soon as possible"]
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  19. Did any Remain campaigners mention the UK joining the euro? The pro-EU UK government leaflet paid for with £9 million of everyone's money (over and above the fair spend limit) stated: "We will not join the euro" did this mean 'never'? Why did no pro-EU activist complain or oppose that statement when the single currency is a flagship mandatory policy of the EU? Did not a single person in the UK want the UK to ever join the eurozone? Or did all the pro-EU activists keep quiet about their 'true vision' like sneaky little bastards?
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  20.  @bryangeake5826  Didn't hear you (or anyone else) mentioning this during the referendum campaign...
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  21. ​ @sueyourself5413  Many people have been misled in to thinking Brexit has caused UK food prices to increase. However, when these people learn that, the causes of this were not Brexit, but pandemic and war against Russia and that, when compared to EU countries like Austria, Italy, Belgium, Denmark, Norway, Southern Ireland, Netherlands, Finland, Sweden, France, Germany the UK is actually less expensive for food - they will understand they have been lied to.
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  22.  @Rbourk252  To pick up on your last point - we are still in Europe and the EU only represents 27 of the 50 European countries. On your other points - of course you would be content if your ideas were implemented, but others would not be content. It's like me saying everyone must only listen to Bob Dylan on the radio - I would be happy - but many others would not.
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  23.  @atomiccritter6492  That 'clamour' you refer to was an attempt by pro-EU politicians/media to weaken the validity of the Leave vote - 'some voted for this others voted for that - no one knows what they voted for' - this was no more than pro-EU propaganda. The UK electorate voted to be out of the EU, just as they would have voted to be in the EU had Remain won. As for 'education' the word 'educate' means 'to instruct a person what to think' so these 'educated' people are followers and not necessarily the people we should all follow. Besides, people like Enoch Powell and Tony Benn were the most academic and educated politicians of the last 100 years and they both advocated Brexit from opposite ends of the political divide. Any person with intelligence wold understand that, 'democracy' has nothing to do with the presumption of measured intelligence - it has everything to do with equality of citizenship.
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  24. It's getting clearer by the month the only way to 'stop the boats' is to leave the ECHR. The best way to sort this would be let the people decide at the next general election. If the Tories make a manifesto pledge to 'leave the ECHR and stop the boats' and Labour and Lib Dems oppose, we can have a full-on national debate and election campaign on 'immigration'.
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  25. Phil: "It seems quite clear that there's a drinking at work culture in Downing Street" Which means Downing street continued its 'normal work practice' during lockdown conditions. The rules did not mention 'alcohol'.
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  26. The clever thing about the new size rejoin march is if it rains the whole march can take shelter in a Tesco Express...
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  27. people are waking up to the reality they cannot expect the people who are giving their country away to give them their country back.
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  28.  @marcusfranconium3392  "Brits always point to others when they fail , change historic events in to their favour .and make them self more important during events where they only had a small part to play in." Do you think this applies to the liberation of your country?
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  29. You think the UK cannot import labour? What planet are you on? Every day people risk their lives to escape EU countries for freedom and prosperity in the UK. People don't want to live under EU tyranny, where their every act and thought is monitored and controlled by people who contribute nothing and think they know what's best for everyone.
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  30.  @Richie-j5p  I'm in the UK and travel to the EU 2/3 times each year. I simply buy Euros in the UK and the postman brings them to my door, what I don't spend in the EU, I keep for next time. As for getting through EU immigration with a UK passport - everyone ends up waiting for their hold luggage - so you can't get out any quicker.
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  31.  @VaucluseVanguard  Around 2% of people are narcissists that cannot accept not wining and 2% of 48% of the electorate is a lot of nutters on YouTube.
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  32.  @pmoran7971  I voted to change the system in the 2011 AV referendum. Of course, the FPTP system has flaws, but it's what people voted for. There are issues with PR too, as it's prone to handing disproportionate de facto power to minority 'quack' parties.
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  33.  @ab-ym3bf  Because, in any democratic society there are voters on the right and on the left and there are political parties on the right and on the left. In order to gain most votes (power) the political parties formulate policies to be popular and this results in the voters on the right and the voters on the left being evenly divided with a midpoint reflecting the average voter; and in a PR system, typically, the political parties on the left and right gaining a similar amount of votes. This then results in a parliament in which policies cannot be passed with majority vote. Enter the minority 'quack' party that most did not vote for and furthest from the views of the average voter. This party can now begin 'punching above its [democratic] weight' to provide the necessary votes to pass (or not pass) the policies and demand policies in return.
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  34. I expect Biden will tell Boris of his strong feelings about English history in Ireland and how his Irish ancestor went to the land of the North American Indians.
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  35. "The Off-Fish of Budget Responsibility"... Is that dealing with UK seafood stuck in EU customs?
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  36. You do know how these things work? Boris has a huge majority in parliament and there will not be a general election for four years. Going on past Tory governments, this one will do what it likes for the next two years and start getting very generous about two years from the next general election.
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  37.  @ADifferentBias  He has the backing of the members - as the Labour MPs have found out.
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  38. I'm in the UK and I voted for Brexit. We are not experiencing any problems because of Brexit. 'Brexit' is not even a news story - 'covid' is far more important. There has been some minor hiccups with hostile EU border controls, but this will be sorted and no UK business will lose out, because there is 100% government compensation. The only real losers are the EU citizens going without fish.
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  39. Information for all you stupid remoaners: A referendum to stay in the EU and a referendum to join the EU are two very different things...
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  40. I mean only goodwill when I say to Remoaners: Go live in the EU!
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  41. It's what you 'hope' for - just like you 'hope' for Scotland not to be in the UK and Northern Ireland not to be in the UK and Wales not to be in the UK and the UK to be in the EU and Labour to be in government... Based on the success of your wish-list - I think the UK will do just fine.
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  42. tings will improve in two or tree mounts..
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  43. We don't call you remainers anymore (one word) - we don't talk about you.
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  44. I know why I voted for Brexit. I wanted to live in an independent country and topple those that had connived to hand the UK to foreigners. I know that once the UK sets a new course away from the EU it will venture farther each day and re-joining the EU will be a political impossibility. Soon no UK politician will dare to utter the words: 'I think the UK should join the EU' for fear of being laughed out of town. We've been there done that - it was a massive mistake and we are never going back down that road. I feel confident I have got what I wanted from my Leave vote.
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  45. Isn't Adonis one of those crazy people that no one listens to anymore? You know like Blair, Major; people with loony anti-UK ideas who can't be trusted.
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  46.  @jiversteve  Live in a sovereign country. Can the 450 million EU citizens say that?
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  47. We hear non-stop from the media about 'the country being divided' - but had Remain won by 1% this would not be an issue... Phrases like: 'Now the people have decided' and 'The country has united behind the decision' would be used instead.
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  48.  @robtyman4281  What do you sound like when you wake up - do we have to wait twenty years for that too?
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  49.  @bryangeake5826  You are attempting to put the cart back before the horse. The reason we had the referendum was to establish whether representative parliamentary democracy was really serving the people well. There was a question that, with the main parties of government all agreed on pro-EU policy, MPs had become removed from the electorate on an issue voters could not pragmatically vote for in FPTP general elections. The country was divided and it was apparent parliament was not obviously representative of public opinion on a constitutional matter; this question needed to be answered. In the end, the referendum proved UK pro-EU activism was a political ideology that had infested UK politics and after half a century was shared by at best 20% of the UK electorate.
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  50.  @bryangeake5826  The referendum was only advisory - the Conservative Party did change policy - the Conservative Party won a general election on Brexit policy and then did Brexit. Nobody changed the representative parliamentary system - it was exactly the same as when the UK joined the EEC and joined the EU.
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  51.  @domhart9046  Why do you think six million EU citizens have applied to stay in the UK?
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  52.  @domhart9046  I've been to Canada and it's OK if you don't mind being kept awake all night by the noise of your teeth chattering. Two of my kids went to Australia and have been there for ten years. It's nice and warm and wages are good.
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  53.  @sueyourself5413  Would you agree domestic workforce employment is an indicator of how well a country is performing in economic and trade terms? Because, UK unemployment is 3.9%, France is 7.5%, Germany is 5.9%, Spain is 11.7%, Greece is 10.4%, Sweden is 8.5%, Austria is 7.6%, Finland is 8.3%, Italy is 7.2%. Portugal is 6.6%, Ireland is 4.2%, Poland is 5.4% and the entire EU is 6%.
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  54.  @siskinedge  Can you cite verbatim a statement made by the Leave campaign and demonstrate it to be 'a lie' with facts? For clarity, 'a lie' being 'a knowingly false statement intended to deceive.' Please note, I have asked for just one statement (your choice), cited verbatim and attributed to the Leave Campaign prior to polling day on 23 06 2016. I await with interest...
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  55. Thankyou, and should the need ever arise, I shall be voting for the UK to stay independent, as I'm sure will at least 70% of UK voters.
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  56.  @verystripeyzebra  "In 2022, the UK exported £340 billion of goods and services to the EU, 42% of total UK exports. The UK imported £432 billion from the EU, 48% of total UK imports. The UK had a trade deficit of £92 billion with the EU compared to a £5 billion surplus with non-EU countries." (House of commons Library) What about this suggests the UK is not accessing the EU single market?
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  57.  @verystripeyzebra  OK so, the 2023 cost of living index (which obviously takes account of earnings) shows that, when compared to countries like Norway, Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Netherlands, Southern Ireland, Iceland, France, Germany, the UK is an easier place to eke out a living.
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  58.  @verystripeyzebra  Good point! I was thinking in modern European economies that everyone isn't a subsistence farmer...
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  59.  @maxharbig1167  I don't know, but it means people are able to pay their bills and not have to claim out-of-work benefits from the government.
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  60. If remoaners actually think about this - they will see that we weigh ourselves in stones and pounds - we measure our height in feet and inches - we travel in miles per hour - we buy petrol in gallons and we drink beer in pints.... But why let thinking interfere with remoaning?
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  61.  @ncammann  Are you suggesting we shouldn't have allowed people who wanted the UK to stay in the EU to vote in the referendum?
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  62.  @atomiccritter6492  You were scoffing about 'A levels' and 'education', so I assume you have some kind of academic experience. What do you think your tutors might think about your last response? It does seem void of intellectual substance and rather loutish... More indicative of learning difficulties and poor upbringing than cognitive ability.
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  63.  @cyclocop1773  Is there any Vaseline left after the Remoaners bit the pillow and thought of England?
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  64. Here's one fact that Remain did not have on its side: 'Most people in the UK don't want to be in the EU'.
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  65. Starmer's decision to force Corbyn to stand as an independent will backfire spectacularly. The English people love a principled underdog and Starmer has just made Corbyn the big story of the next general election. It's the people who don't really understand politics that swing general elections. These folk usually choose a prime minister over a manifesto. Starmer has made himself look like a petty bunny boiler. Trust me, a million votes will go from Labour to Conservative just to teach Starmer a lesson for being such a two-faced bully. Starmer should have remembered nearly 13 million people voted for Corbyn to be prime minister in 2017.
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  66. There is a huge difference between a deliberate plan to murder/rape/kidnap hundreds of unarmed men, women, children and giving civilians advance warnings of bombing targets, The Israeli government must destroy hamas, because it has a duty to protect the people of Israel. Should hamas be able to murder Jewish children in cold blood and then run to hide behind Arab children demanding all decent people should not allow children to be harmed? How can Israel allow this despicable cowardice to continue? Phil is correct in saying nobody wants to see people getting killed, but meanwhile, in the real world this has been going on since man picked up the jawbone of an ass.
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  67. It's only hypocritical if you think Scotland leaving the UK is the same thing as the UK leaving the EU... Remainers argued strongly that, being in the EU did not mean the UK was not sovereign.
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  68. No one suggested Brexit would present no initial trade difficulties or that, there would be an instant upturn in the UK economy. And of course covid is making normal economic activity impossible. The British people were fully aware the UK leaving the EU would not be a seamless transition. The Remain campaign had ample opportunity to inform the UK electorate of all its perceived economic negatives of Brexit. There was a UK Government leaflet posted to each home in the UK at a cost of £10m (over the fair spend rules) explaining the UK would be financially better off in the EU. Then there were the Remain supporting economic experts, the Governor of the Bank of England, President Obama, The Conservative Party, The Labour Party, The Liberal Democratic Party, The Green Party, The leaders of the EU 28, The UK Universities, UK Business organisations, Tony Blair, John Major, Richard Branson, the BBC, the Guardian, the Financial Times, ITV News, Sky News, Channel 4 News. All giving the UK electorate plenty of information before the vote. The people listened, reflected and weighed the evidence and then when the arguing was over and in the seclusion of the voting booth they chose freedom over fear. These are the people who will make Brexit a success.
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  69.  @jonathanwetherell3609  People that voted Leave understood there would be difficulties to overcome. This was made clear by the Remain side. People listened to both sides and decided on their political future - this is called 'democracy'. No doubt, you think you knew better and that you should have been allotted more than one vote in recognition of your superior intelligence. However, the majority does not agree, so again, it appears you are confounded by 'democracy'.
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  70. You're married - you get divorced - you're single - do you marry the same person again? Of course not - it seldom happens - if it does - people think it's stupid - the UK will not be joining the EU ever...
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  71. Don't blame Labour voters for this mess - try to educate them.
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  72. It's just an instinctive desire to be independent - thinking they are able run their country and they don't need people from other countries taking control of their lives.
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  73. The Tories want to win the next general election and they will do this with 'Brexit benefits' making people think Brexit is the best thing since sliced bread. The obvious tool for this is the UK's newfound control over VAT. Expect massive cuts that help poor people (VAT off takeaway food, VAT off cheap adult clothes and shoes, VAT off potato crisps) these things will deter people voting to leave the UK and joining the EU for extra VAT.. 'Vote for independence and pay 20% more for you fish supper!'
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  74. An overcrowded unsuitable inflatable boat attempting to cross many miles of open sea with changeable conditions and busy shipping lanes is a clear safety concern. If someone wanted to operate a ferry across the River Seine, the French authorities would never allow such overcrowding on safety grounds. The French authorities are fully aware of the dangers and risk to life (including children unable to make decisions), but French officials just stand by and encourage this highly dangerous and illegal activity. It would be very easy to intercept the transit of these boats and very easy to render the boats unusable. There is no question France is responsible for people in France and should have at least made attempts to prevent these deaths. The sad truth is the French officials probably wished them 'bon voyage' and waived to them from the beach - so much for 'EU regulation'.
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  75.  @asasdsaasda  Bit racist! I like Chinese people... They don't moan all the time...
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  76. And here's the reality: The traitors couldn't get their way in 2016 - so they never will.
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  77.  @teddyboysdontknit810  Heath admitted he lied to the UK people on sovereignty. I don't know where you get I'm 'a hater' from? I suspect your own accusatory imagination.
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  78. What a silly thing to say. To begin with covid has nothing to do with Brexit and an independent UK with stricter immigration rules would have fared better. As for Brexit related trade disruption (that has not happened yet); it was obvious from the start that leaving the EU would involve some difficulties. The UK has chosen to take back control of its destiny and as history shows; freedom is never easy.
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  79. It's a condition of these talks that the details discussed remain confidential until agreement is reached. This does not prevent outside speculation and it does not prevent either side covertly feeding false information to those who will report it.
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  80. Isn't this channel dedicated to disregarding a democratic vote?
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  81.  @geraldhewing329  Brexit isn't right or wrong or they would not have held a referendum on the matter. If there was a referendum on 'what 25% of 40 was' then those voting '10' would be right, but we don't have referendums on that type of question. In any political campaign there are claims that might not be factual, but that's the nature of the beast. 'Vote for me and things will be better than if you vote for the other guy' don't both sides say this - how can both statements be true? Leave made statements and Remain was able to say why it believed those statements wrong and vice versa - the electorate heard all the evidence from both sides and voted - this is called 'democracy'. I don't believe Leave did lie during the campaign: if you example what you believe was a Leave lie - I will be happy to explain why I believe it was not.
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  82.  @anghelnisca4597  You do know six million EU27 nationals have applied for 'settled status' to stay living and working in the UK.
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  83.  @gloin10  Obviously, a translation problem. I wrote my comment in 'humour' - broadly translated into 'no-humour' it means: 'Why should I care about EU politics?'. Don't get me wrong - I like people in EU countries - I just don't want to interfere in their countries and I don't want them to interfere in the UK.
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  84.  @batcollins3714  Yes, but in Ireland you hate anything English, because the English are better than you.
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  85.  @aidannolan6656  You would guess wrong, as I work with minute measurements every day - I have several imperial micrometers, vernier calipers in constant use.
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  86. It was the EEC/EU and it's minority of UK supporters that 'took' something from a nation...
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  87.  @welshskies  Really? Are you a soothsayer? What were your predictions for the 2014 and 2016 referendums?
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  88. 100 000 subscribers and you will only need another 17.3 million to overturn Brexit! Oops! Most of those subscribers are not UK citizens..
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  89.  @abbofun9022  "An English bishop, John Wilkins, (1614-1672) invented the system part of the decimal metric system when he published a book with a plan for a 'universal measure' in 1668. To be more exact, Bishop Wilkins released his plan for what became the decimal metric system on Monday, 1668 April 13 when the Royal Society published 'AN ESSAY Towards a REAL CHARACTER, And a PHILOSOPHICAL LANGUAGE'."
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  90.  @abbofun9022  I think that it is fair to say that John Wilkins 'invented' the system we now use in the dictionary sense of the word invented (invent: to create by thought, originate, new method) because, although the parts had been around for a while, it was Wilkins' plan for a system that could be used to measure all things based on a single universal measure, that was completely new.
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  91.  @markhackett2302  In 1668, the distinguished scientist and philosopher, Bishop John Wilkins, one of the founders of the Royal Society, proposed a system of measurement which contained the essential features of what came to be known as the metric system. His “Standard” unit was almost exactly one metre and, like the metre, was to be used with decimal multiples and submultiples. He proposed decimal units of volume and weight similar to the modern litre and kilogram. However, it was in France that the first practical application of his ideas was implemented – leading to the modern metric system, properly known as the International System of Units.
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  92.  @markhackett2302  "I mention these particulars, not out of any hope or expectation that the world will ever make use of them, but only to show the possibility of reducing all measures to one determined certainty." (John Wilkins April 1668)
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  93.  @Spac3d1  If being in the EU is of no consequence - what is the point of being in the EU? If the last 20 years is not indicative of being in the EU - what is? Neither of us know what life in the UK would be like had we stayed out of the EU and neither of us know what the UK will be like in the next 20 years. We ether trust in democracy or become a fascist state run by a few that think they are too clever to abide by majority decision.
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  94. Fintan O'Toole sounds like a tool.
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  95.  @jjtighe8628  "Ireland will be reunited inside of 10 years and probably a lot less" Are you some sort of soothsayer? What were your predictions for the 2014 and the 2016 referendums? It's early days to see how Brexit will affect people's thinking. I wonder if cuts in VAT on takeaway food and cheap adult clothes and shoes might make people think twice about joining the high taxing EU?
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  96.  @roisinmalone3015  You do realise there are 66 million people in the UK and there's no way they are going to vote to re-join the EU? You were led up the garden path during the propaganda campaign to reverse Brexit - the EU is not going to politically invade the UK. Why do I look at 'remainer sites'? Because unlike you - I understand that it's over and the UK is one nation.
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  97.  @roisinmalone3015  This is not the only site I visit. Reading different points of view helps me understand political feelings and how I decide on my own political opinion. I think your predictions about Northern Ireland and Scotland are silly - we should all accept 'the future is not ours to see'.
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  98. Remain voters should stop finding fault with Brexit as it serves no useful purpose. The UK is out of the EU and that's not going to change. The political distance between the UK and EU will just become greater with time. Had Remain won by a whisker the losers would have been told: 'Old people wanted Brexit and the young voted for the EU, so there will never be need for another referendum'. There would have been huge pro-EU celebrations and politicians would have promised to address the economic and emotional issues that caused so many to vote against the advice of parliament. It would have been portrayed as 51% level headed vote, 30% angry protest and 19% swivel eyed loonies. The point is those that voted for the UK to become an independent, democratic and sovereign country would have been expected to shut-up and respect democracy.
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  99. What about the small village sized group of MPs responsible for attempting to give our country to foreigners? The UK's membership of the EEC/EU has proved to be the biggest failure in UK political history? We have wasted hundreds of billions and half a century. These people never had popular support for their 'true' vision and they were warned at the time the UK people would never give up sovereignty.
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  100.  @pmoran7971  Not 'strange' at all - the UK parliament has a 'first past the post' electoral system which favours established political parties. This is how a minority of citizens were able to gain power and impose the EEC/EU on the people of the UK. That's why it took a single issue referendum to put that minority of citizens in their box.
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  101. What if everyone bought British farm produce - like vote every time they shopped?
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  102. The only 'fine' Boris will be having is some 'fine' wine and cheese to celebrate...
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  103.  @OscarSommerbo  I can already drive HGV up to 7.5 ton on my car licence, because that's the way it was in the UK before the EU interfered. The idea of Brexit was to do things our own way and this is what we're doing. If the people of the UK think it's a bad idea they will vote for the 'Stricter Driving Rules Party'...
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  104.  @klausschumacher7126  If we look at the 2014 UK elections for MEPs in the EU parliament. The turnout was 35.6% of those eligible to vote. Just two years later mathematical logic tells us around 50% of those voters wanted the UK to leave the EU. This would suggest that only around 18% of the UK electorate were actively supportive of the UK being in the EU.
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  105. The pro-EU politicians and media caused this by misinterpreting the GFA in an attempt to stop a UK democratic decision to leave the EU. There is nothing in the GFA that prevents a trade border between all of the UK and the EU. All Irish citizens were able to live and work either side of the border since before the GFA, before the EU and before the EEC. The GFA recognises the UK and ROI to be two separate countries with a border and separate countries have trade agreements and pertaining regulation.
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  106. The reality is that 50% of 2016 Remain voters are now or will be opposed to the UK being a member of The EU. The UK's membership of the EU was not a grassroots thing, it did not spring from people, it was an imposition on the people by an elite acting covertly and ultra vires. Getting the UK out of the EU was the reaction out of the people. The UK is vibrant economic force and leaving the EU will open different doors and bring new prosperity. Don't waste your lives 'beating a dead horse'.
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  107. The difficulty facing rejoiners, is the 2016 referendum was heavily influenced by fear of the unknown and people in the UK now know what it's like to be out of the EU. We have seen the rejoin marches dwindle to insignificant numbers, because the UK people have seen an independent UK can perform as well as France and Germany. In a future join referendum, the join side would have no fear weapon to persuade the UK people. Contrarily, the stay independent side would be able to create real uncertainty about joining the euro, giving up sovereignty, uncontrolled immigration and straight bananas.
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  108.  @elwynjones763  Those things are not so in the context to which you apply them. Democracy does not decide what is 'right' or 'wrong' - 'good' or 'bad' it can only decide what should happen based on a majority vote. We would not hold a political referendum on a 'right or wrong' question, as there would be no point. Democracy is based on a principal that, all citizens are equal and each citizen has one vote. All that is required is each eligible citizen decides whether they wish to vote, and if so, which answer they want to give. To claim that a voter has been 'wrong' or has somehow voted for the opposite of what they really wanted, is ignorant of what democracy means and somewhat arrogant.
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  109. You and your father obviously have different ideas about what 'good' reasons are. This is quite typical so we invented 'democracy' to settle disputes.
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  110.  @harrylane3949  Guessing they pay experts to advise how to avoid paying UK tax.
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  111. Here's a list of things we will be putting on our bus: 1) An independent UK is doing OK - why take an unnecessary risk? 2) Let's not give the EU £30 billion each year - our NHS needs money. 3) We don't need more politicians on £100k a year - thankyou. 4) They want us to trash our British Pound - just say no! 5) We tried 'Europe' for 50 years and we ended up working more for less. 6) Why allow 450 million EU citizens to apply for any job in the UK? 7) Why give foreigners control over the UK's Armed Forces? 8) How can we have a functioning democracy in 24 different languages? 9) Do we want to hand the EU control of our fishing waters? 10) Should the UK accept EU poverty grants paid for with UK money? What are you putting on your bus?
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  112. I had the same dream - only in mine the Red Devils did a flypast and the pilots were pigs.
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  113. It's obvious the Tories are going to make 'the boats' the big question of next election. Vote Tory and they go to Rwanda - vote Labour and they come to a hotel near you...
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  114. Anyone watch the new 'Haw Haw Twins' double act last night?
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  115.  @ab-ym3bf  The flags gave it away - If there was no flags - no one would have noticed. I hope our politicians get the message and start getting on with improving the UK for the UK people that pay their wages.
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  116. I wonder if it will take Labour more than a decade to adjust to being out of the EU like it took them more than a decade to adjust to being in the EEC...
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  117. It's probable support for Reform will keep growing meaning when the GE is inevitable the Tory Party will be forced to make an electoral deal not to stand in every seat and not fight Reform in any seat. There will have to be common ground manifesto pledges put to the nation which will likely be headed with UK withdrawal from ECHR to stop the boats. The Tory Party is at breaking point and will put country first - this will be for the right of the party to action and for the rest to give up and go.
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  118. Actual post covid data shows UK economy outperformed Germany, France and Italy - Brexit must be working!
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  119. Glad you finally had some political success - a confiscated sandwich...
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  120. Great understanding of the political spectrum...
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  121. Government can give more powers to its recognised governing bodies (in this case: Football Association). Sport is not owned by any individual, so what happens in any sport must be decided in a democratic way by the people who have involvement in the sport .
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  122. Around 15 years ago I was invited to a wedding reception in England. The Bride was Scottish and the Groom English. There was a coterie of Scottish men gathered at the bar drinking a fair bit of whiskey. I attempted to join the conversation and soon got the message these guys really did not like English people. There was an unmistakeable sense of 'are you going to fuck off or have a head butt instead?' Not one to miss out on some fun, I persisted with a 'let's all enjoy the happy day' approach. Their distinctly frosty conversation drifted from football to politics and how their tribe had been oppressed by the English; obviously directed at me and perhaps the person who had married their sister/cousin and was paying for their drinks. Anyway, here's the point. I started bringing the EU into the chat - saying 'we were all being oppressed' and bingo! It turned out these guys hated the EU just as much as they hated the English. This experience caused me to wonder if in 2016, many Scots only voted Remain to get at the English.
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  123. There is a big word for that... 'Conservation'.
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  124. I like the way we find out the facts AFTER we have put our ballot into the box. According to the then pro-Remain UK government there were three million EU27 workers in the UK. It's only AFTER we voted we find out more than six million EU27 workers have applied to stay in Brexit Britain. Can pro-EU politicians in charge of a country be THAT wrong?
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  125.  @pf844  It was a UK government estimate statistic that had to be used by all to avoid being accused of exaggeration without accurate basis. The point I am making is the pro-EU UK government claimed to have got it wrong by 3 million which is like the combined populations of Bristol, Liverpool, Cardiff, Edinburgh, Newcastle. Really?
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  126. It's quite simple. The Brexiteers have not got what they wanted because Remainers were in power negotiating a Brexit they did not want and were trying to prevent. Brexiteers just wanted out, because 'the iron was hot' and they knew once the UK was out MPs could never convince the UK electorate to re-join. So, the process of getting a good Brexit for the UK is a work in progress. I think all of those that voted Leave and 50% of those that voted Remain accept this.
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  127. I expect there will be a very firm answer from the EU: 'Time is running out and this time we really, really, really, really, really, really, do mean it.... We really do!
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  128. Unreliable polling best at 55% for independence which is a weak starting point to change the status quo in such a radical way (Brexit was different because politicians had kept truths from electorate that were revealed during the campaign). 'If' indy2 went ahead, it would be very different from 2014, when all believed UK future was in the EU with the euro. Boris probably fancies his chances to shut them up for good.
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  129.  @jameshiggins8329  Yes, I doubt the government will allow it because the matter was settled in 2014. A lot of people argued the Brexit referendum should have needed 75% to change the status qou. This would be a good Idea for ending 'Great Britain' that has existed for more than 300 years. So, if we have another indy - say in 2054 - we could do it that way.
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  130.  @jameshiggins8329  Well, when it comes to court cases, referendums, and public feeling and support from other nations - it's best to wait until after the event before celebration. I would say this, the UK government, parliament and Tory Party will not be using kid gloves and they can be nasty bastards.
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  131.  @jameshiggins8329  And that goes for Unionist Scots too.
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  132.  @paulmcmahon864  You lot seem to forget that you're not the most important people in Scotland and that the law applies to the others too. There was a referendum in 2014 when Scotland decided it's sovereignty. Choosing Sovereignty is different to electing a political party to power.
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  133.  @paulmcmahon864  Yes, I understand your side has its reasons - just saying the other side has its reasons and rights in law too.
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  134.  @paulmcmahon864  By 'other side' I mean the people living in Scotland that want to stay part of the United Kingdom. The wishes of these people must count too. You want to force these people out of their British nationality, their national flag, their monarchy, their rights to have MPs in Westminster, their British Pound, their National Health Service. You want to end 'Great Britain' which has existed as a country for more than 300 years and is known throughout the world as being a country with its own monarchy, armed forces, democratic parliament, national flag, legal system and the oldest currency in the world. You seem to have a selfish attitude that democracy is somehow only about you and what you want. And what about the other 60+ million people in Great Britain? I live as far away from Scotland as is possible (10 miles from Land's End), But, I believe Scotland is an area of Great Britain, just as England and Wales is an area of Great Britain... We just don't do 'tribes' in the modern world and the courts understand this.
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  135.  @paulmcmahon864  And you can move to the EU if you want to be represented at Brussels.
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  136.  @paulmcmahon864  Scotland voted on whether to leave the UK in 2014. The people of Scotland voted to stay part of the UK. In 2016 the UK voted to leave the EU. If any UK citizen living in any part of the UK wants to live under the control of the EU they can go live in the EU... I think it's the rubbish you wrote about Scottish pounds and Roman coins being a currency that makes no sense.
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  137.  @paulmcmahon864  My mistake! I just checked the exchange rate, it's five denarius to a Scottish poond.
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  138.  @paulmcmahon864  Best wishes to you too. I'll leave you with some thoughts. As an Englishman I have never liked the Tories. I lived through the Thatcher years and was opposed to mass unemployment, the theft of public assets and the poll tax. We in rest of the UK also got what a majority did not vote for. I came to understand our politics is dictated from the EU and that it's called 'neoliberalism' which means the super rich own and control everything and the rest of us are charitycases. The reason we got this is the EU had infiltrated and taken over every major political party. This is the reason Blair kept the people's hands off the riches and why he's now worth 60m (his son 75m) and why Liberals opposed sell-offs divided the worker's vote to keep the Tories selling-off and when that backfired (2010) put the Tories in and sold the Post Office. And why Corbyn wanting to nationalise the railway is somehow 'racist'. The EU has been calling the tune on UK politics and what has been happening is what the EU wanted to happen. This is why I voted for Brexit and for Boris. I don't agree with all Tory policies, but I know as a country we will never be a democracy in the EU.
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  139. I don't understand why the UK isn't backing down - the EU has repeatedly said time has run-out and this time it really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, does mean it....
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  140. It's going to be interesting to see how quickly the Big Ben bong bill is raised.
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  141. I don't which team will win the FA cup this year, but no doubt the teams that don't win the FA cup will be because of Brexit.
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  142. "Our [UK] nearest comparable neighbour in terms of population and wealth France"....Omits to mention France is more than double UK in land area.
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  143. Starmer knows the UK cannot be sneaked into the EU by politicians, because now there would have to be a join referendum and the UK is never going to vote for that. In a nutshell, if they couldn't do it in 2016 - they will never do it.
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  144. I don't think it was the ERG that was 'responsible for Brexit'. Wasn't it the 17.4 million UK citizens that voted 'Leave' in the 2016 referendum? And let's not forget that most of the 2016 Remain vote is now opposed to the UK rejoining the EU. What a pathetic lot of losers Remoaners are.
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  145. That's the way it goes: remainer - re-joiner - rehabilitation...
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  146. If Nicola is so brilliant at caring for the well-being of Scottish folk, why hasn't she done something about the worsening 'drugs problem'? "The much-delayed figures show a record number of deaths for the sixth year in a row and the highest total since records began in 1996." "The figure of 1,264 is a 6% increase on 2018 and more than double the number of deaths in 2014." "It is the worst rate recorded in Europe and about three and a half times the rate for England and Wales." (BBC 15 Dec 2020)
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  147. The Cambridge Dictionary has just changed its definition of the word 'pointless' to "complaining about the 2016 UK referendum on the EU".
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  148. Jess Phillips and other pro-EU MPs have been put in their place by the people. They know they're never going to convince the people of the UK to vote to join the EU. The reality is that 50% of 2016 Remain voters are now or will become opposed to UK/EU membership. The next Labour Party manifesto will be all about a UK out of the EU. The ideological imposition on the many by a privileged few abusing the trust placed in them is over. As Tony Benn repeatedly said: 'The power was never theirs to give away'.
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  149. The UK is doing what any country would do in the circumstances which is get the best possible offer for a free trade deal and then decide between the available options. Really the UK is in the driving seat and will decide the outcome best for the UK in the long-term. Some appear to forget it was the UK that told the world EU membership is not its best future. The UK leaving the EU is a massive political and economic disaster for the EU. Plainly, the EU is 'stuck between a rock and a hard place' and fears Brexit success, as many EU countries are on the brink of EU exit. In the end people grow tired of being ruled by bullies and stop listening to threats like the ones in this video ('no allies' 'snubbing' 'severe' 'condemnation' 'brutal' 'can't survive' 'national isolation' 'can't manage as a hermit nation') because people have a innate need for freedom and will do anything to get it.
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  150. This is like the flat earth society only funnier.
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  151. "If you drive a nation to adopt procedures which run counter to its instincts, you weaken and may destroy the motive force of its action? You will realise that I am speaking of the frequent suggestions that the United Kingdom should join a federation on the continent of Europe. This is something which we know, in our bones, we cannot do" (Anthony Eden)
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  152. That's strong evidence the UK is leaving then. So, according to 'companies' and 'law firms' Chris Hoar is wasting his time remoaning on the internet... Thought as much!
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  153.  @nicholaswoolfenden5254  So this proves Brexiteers want to trade with the EU.
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  154.  @patrickokeeffe539  No one thought Brexit would be without difficulties or there would be an instant upturn in the UK economy - and that was before anyone knew about covid.
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  155.  @Honking_Goose  So, find me a pre-referendum quote from a Brexiteer that promised zero difficulties and an instant upturn in the UK economy. Oh! And the Remain side was allowed to mention the negatives. That's how democracy works. It was winner takes all - your side would have gladly taken all and gladly rubbed Farage's nose in it. But, your side lost - so my side gets to take all - and your side gets to get over it - or not...
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  156. But they are united now as the pro-EU lot have accepted defeat... In 17 May was able to win with them fighting like rats in a sack.
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  157. The chairman of Reform UK (support Brexit) is called Muhammad Ziauddin Yusuf.
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  158. Trump sees leadership as improving people's lives not war.
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  159. People opposed to an independent UK are fruitcakes and loonies.
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  160. The Tories are going to make 'the boats' the big question of next election. Vote Tory and they go to Rwanda - vote Labour and they come to a hotel near you...
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  161. So, since Brexit UK teams have not participated in European football, because other European teams didn't want to play with them - or is football a different thing - like apples and oranges are different...
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  162.  @QT5656  Why would UK teams not follow football rules when the UK invented the game and rules? Do you actually exist in an analogy - and if so what's the purpose?
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  163. Phil claims there were "tens of thousands of people - well here's a picture of ten thousand people: https://blog.lime.link/content/images/2018/12/10000.jpeg
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  164.  @errorswillmultiply1697  You mean the bit where he says he did not choose "re-join as soon as possible - because it's not up to us anymore"..... How does that make any sense?
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  165.  @errorswillmultiply1697  That's irrelevant - go ask a ten-year-old what 'soon as possible' means...
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  166. In the context of this discussion it means: ''the UK being able to re-join the EU'
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  167.  @errorswillmultiply1697  Have you any Idea how stupid the idea of re-joining the EU actually is to a normal person?
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  168.  @errorswillmultiply1697  The survey asked which statement was closest to the respondent's opinion and Phil chose we should work to make the best of Britain's position outside of the EU Phil has obviously become a 'rebrainer' ;o)
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  169. Maybe Suzzi Izzard could lead a 'rejoin crusade' and all the Leave voters would change their minds...
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  170. It's clear mainstream pro-EU politicians in the UK have given up on the UK ever re-joining the EU. They can see it's an 'impossible hill to climb' rather like reaching the summit of Everest wearing only budgie-smugglers and flip-flops. Yes, Lib-Dems will probably attempt to pickup the remoaner vote, but then; that tactic didn't do much for Ms Swinson's political career. The simple fact is if any UK government was to attempt to join the EU, there would be fierce and effective demand for a referendum. And anyone with an active braincell understands the 're-join' side would be lucky to get 25%. The same will apply to any UK government attempting to 'sneak' the UK into the Single Market - petitions would be raised and parliament would debate. The sneaky trick would be exposed and the idea of a referendum would put a stop to remoaner shenanigans. The minority remoaners have been put in a tiny box - and in a tiny box they must stay.
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  171. Phil you need to drop this gripe for the sake of your mental health (it's only a sandwich ffs!). The UK will not be rejoining the EU. You have to think of democracy as a spectator sport - you get one vote that never makes any difference. You're acting like a tyrannical despot demanding everyone accepts your opinions as being the only correct opinions. Why don't you plant some leek seeds, or build a pigeon loft, or take up angling for pikes in the canal, or buy a banjo and learn how to pluck a tune - instead of all this useless nonsense?
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  172. People are seeing a pro-EU establishment was never going to make was going to make UK independence appear successful. This is why Reform UK is on course to be the next UK government. The UK people don't want to be part of a federal Europe. This is why only 500 people turned up for the 2024 National Rejoin March.
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  173. UK doesn't need to sell fish to EU as UK only takes 20% of fish from UK waters. UK can buy this and sell elsewhere. UK shops full of basa and Alaskan pollack not caught in UK waters. No fish in EU shops is not a UK problem.
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  174. No need because the voters were made aware by Remain Campaign.
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  175. Yeah, a lot of people who voted for Brexit don't like it that 70% of MPs are life-long pro-EU political activists. Mabey, in 40 years time 70% of MPs will not want to join the EU and the people will vote 52% to join the EU. Wonder how well that would work out?
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  176. Thanks for not ruining it for us Brexiteers.
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  177.  @solidoperative  Life was so good in the EU - we voted out first chance. Sorry to break it to you, but your lack of effort only made a difference in your hubristic imagination.
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  178. I was in UK supermarket today and there was plenty of food.
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  179. We just make it in the UK better or find a new less expensive supplier or pay the extra for our freedom.
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  180.  @jiversteve  That was for the Remain side to point out - I seem to remember they tried to dissuade people from supporting Leave... I feel more free.
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  181. Has Phil and Angela Rayner ever been seen in the same room at the same time?
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  182.  @seang2700  Why guess and assume you're right?
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  183.  @englishcitystone1663  I'm going to need more...
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  184.  @bryangeake5826  Primary issue was leaving the EU which we did and we now just need to get the pro-EU activists out of parliament..
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  185.  @bryangeake5826  It takes a while for political change to take effect. We were in the EEC/EU thirty years before a UK single unskilled wage could no longer keep a family and buy a home...
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  186.  @englishsteve1465  We had a debate and a vote and your argument lost. The UK people want to be independent and to govern themselves. Your 'sensible' politicians will find it impossible to persuade the UK electorate to give-up independence. The UK parliament is overloaded with 85% pro-EU ideologues and not representative of the UK people - that's a problem for UK democracy which needs to get sorted.
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  187.  @englishsteve1465  My problem is the Remain campaign withheld its true objective from the UK people. 'Omission' is 'lies' - the 'movers & shakers' behind the UK/EU project want the UK in the eurozone - they thought they could trick the UK people to get it. If there is ever a UK referendum on joining the EU - an honest case for membership will have to be made - good luck with that...
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  188.  @Nannyirene  There were two sides to the campaign - Leave was trying to make a positive case for UK independence. Remain was free to set out all the things the EU was doing and wanted to achieve. The people listened to all the arguments and most voted for independence, choosing freedom over the obvious transitional setbacks pointed out by Remain. Remain could have made a more upbeat honest case informing the UK people of their wish for an EU army, Turkey to join the EU and the UK to join the eurozone. You have to accept 60% of the UK population never think about the EU - it's of absolutely no interest to them, and half of the remaining 40% only think about the EU, because they despise it.
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  189.  @bryangeake5826  Thing is you blame the Tories for this and that, but you skip over the fact those Tories were pro-EU activists and part of UK's 'put Europe first' problem. The woman you blame most was in support of joining the EEC (without referendum) and part of the government that joined the UK to the EEC when the Labour Party opposed. After Labour's Brexit manifesto failed at the 83 GE all main parliamentary parties of UK government became overloaded with pro-EU activists, thereby removing any realistic prospect of the people affecting that 'very' UK changing policy. In short, what I am driving at is, we were in 'Europe' with 'EU elections' 'EU politicians' and 'EU parliament' if life under the governance and in the political system of 'Europe' was making life significantly worse in terms of jobs/wages/housing and we had 10% say in the EU parliament - what else was there to blame. If 'life in the EU' wasn't 'life in the EU' - what exactly is your argument for membership? Whatever your counter arguments might be, working class people can understand that, more people bidding for employment makes it harder to find a job and causes wages to decrease. That more people bidding for housing reduces availability of houses and increases housing costs. And that, jobs, wages and housing costs are key to decent standard of living. Remain told us there were 3 million EU27 workers in the UK, yet 6.5 million EU27 workers applied to stay post Brexit. This is 10% of the UK population (never-mind the UK workforce). This is why the UK Unions and Labour Party opposed the federal Europe project before we were joined. In the end ordinary people rejected the EU because life in the EU was worse than before. Like I said a single unskilled UK wage used to be able to keep a family and buy a home. After decades of 'Europe' both parents are forced to work - go cap-in-hand for state welfare and cannot dream of buying a home. You blame pro-EU activsts - so do I - and so did the people of the UK.
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  190.  @englishcitystone1663  I don't think you're getting that the Remain side (including the UKGov leaflet) made out we would not be joining the eurozone, when it was clearly their intention to do so. This is the point I am making. UK Pro-EU activists were the reason the UK was in the EU and pro-EU activists support the aims an objectives of the EU. A pro-EU activist wanting the UK to keep the pound is like a UKIP member wanting the UK to adopt the euro. My question is why didn't the UK pro-EU activists say they wanted to join the euro? Not very honest of them hiding their true plan for the UK currency from the UK people.
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  191.  @englishsteve1465  It's also obvious any elected UK government can take us out of the EU. What's your problem anyway? Is it just because you want the UK to be in the EU? Is it just because you want the EU parliament to rule over the UK innit? What does it matter if the UK parliament (that you stated can decide what the UK can do) just actually does decide what the UK does?
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  192.  @englishcitystone1663  Who's 'we'? Do you mean the UK people? That's my point - those that are responsible for the UK being in the EU understand this, so have not pushed it. The thing is these people DO want the UK in the eurozone and had they won the 2016 referendum the anti-EU movement would have been defeated and the pro-EU activists would have started pushing for the UK to be in the EU single currency.
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  193.  @englishcitystone1663  If you are telling the truth - then you seem a bit dim. I'm not talking about 'your mates down the pub' - I'm talking about the people responsible for how this country got in the EU and has gotten deeper and deeper into the EU. These are the small village sized minority of people who have pulled all the strings on the last 50 years of UK politics. If they had not succeeded with their plan - you and your mates down the pub would never have marched to join the EU.
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  194.  @englishcitystone1663  If as you say 'the EU doesn't do much' then there's no point to being in it.
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  195.  @englishcitystone1663  That is where we are - we had a vote and all things considered it was a huge statement saying the disadvantages of membership did not outweigh the potential advantages of independence. We have to go with democracy and give independence a good crack. Autonomy is a useful thing, but it must be used in a sensible way.
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  196.  @bryangeake5826  There's a slight problem with your skewed version of how democracy is upheld. In the 2015 general election, MPs were elected on a voter turnout of 66.4% and there were 46.4 million registered voters meaning around 30 million actual votes. In our 'first past the post' electoral system, a successful candidate usually achieves around 40% - 50% of the constituency vote. If, for the sake of argument, we use the higher figure of 50% this would mean that those MPs you think should override the votes of 17.4 million voters (26% of the population) had been elected on 15 million votes, significantly less than 26% of the population.
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  197.  @bryangeake5826  If we had had PR Brexit would have happened sooner. There would have been anti-EU Left MPs and anti-EU Right MPs influencing party policy. The evidence clearly shows anti-EU voters were forced to vote for pro-EU candidates under FPTP. You shouldn't transpose FPTP into PR - they are different systems and would be used differently. The UK population is not interested in the EU and this would be represented in a PR parliament.
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  198.  @bryangeake5826  Not at all, I would welcome a referendum on the straightforward question: "Should we remain as an independent United Kingdom, or should we apply to join the European Union?" I am convinced this would put the issue to bed for good. By all means campaign for the political future you want for your country - just make a positive and truthful argument for the UK being part of a federal Europe.
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  199.  @bryangeake5826  The evidence is in the UK/EU and UK/GE election stats which clearly shows higher support for UKIP than under FPTP. These stats also prove lack of UK electorate desire for a federal Europe. If we look at the 2014 UK/EU election there was a 36% turnout and just 2 years later half of those voters must have voted to end EU interference in their country and lives. This leave 18% of UK voters (not UK people) positively participating in the EU political system. Furthermore, we have to factor that many will have voted Remain in the 2016 referendum, because the party they supported, supported Remain which eats into that 18% figure. You see why I want a rejoin referendum?
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  200.  @bryangeake5826  In the 2017 GE 80% of the electorate voted for parties which promised to do Brexit.
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  201.  @bryangeake5826  I don't think you get just how big a knock-down Brexit is to your cause. You do realise the entire political establishment could not persuade the UK electorate to stay in the EU? How do you think anyone is going to persuade the UK people to join? Who is going to make this referendum even happen? The entire 'rejoin movement' consists of half a dozen YouTube channels. Did you see the 'national rejoin march'? A few hundred pensioners trudging along in sandals and woolly hats wondering why nobody turned up to enjoy the sunshine...
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  202.  @bryangeake5826  First let's look at the 'polls'. These are polls of small samples of people not scientifically applicable to 35 million potential votes. They ask selected questions like Are you happy with how Brexit is going? Do you feel Brexit was a mistake? Would you consider voting to rejoin the EU? We are in difficult times and people are being told Brexit is responsible. The thing is life is generally difficult and people do believe big events like divorce are regrettable mistakes it doesn't follow they would remarry their ex. Of course by the time the first two questions are answered the respondent feels obliged to agree to consider voting to rejoin. This is the rather obvious tactic of the polls - to make people think others have changed their minds. Let's place a foot into the real world: The 2016 referendum was heavily based on fear over irreversible loss of the status quo and throwing oneself into the unknown. Ordinary people were made to identify wanting to leave the EU with being racist. The campaign was even halted (for the murder of one voter) while Remain MPs and media basically accused Brexit supporters of supporting the murder of a Remain woman MP. The law was changed mid campaign to allow more Remain voters to register. The media repeated lies like The EU pays for this very good thing and that very good thing in the UK The truth was the UK had paid the EU double what the EU had awarded to EU funded projects in the UK. As I have explained, the UK government leaflet was pro-Remain and cost £9 million over the fair spend rules. It lied about future UK eurozone plans telling the UK people both that, they would not join the euro and their voting decision would matter for decades to come There were countless fear-mongering stories about planes being grounded, no medicines, empty food shelves, emergency budget, job losses, house prices and more. All the main parties of government and 85% of MPs were telling the UK people to not jump into the abyss. You need to think hard how a 'join referendum' would actually go. Who would lead this? what would the message be? I can think of ten 'bus sized' catchy slogans - any one of which would persuade most people to stay out: Let's not be forced to join the euro! Let's not be forced to obey EU laws! Let's not make the same mistake! Let's not give the EU £20 billion every year! Let's not pay even more politicians! Let's not allow millions of EU people to take UK jobs! Let's not allow millions of EU people to use our NHS! Let's not allow millions of EU people to take our housing! Let's not have a foreign president - we already have a head of state! Let's not be forced to give up our seat at the WTO! Let' be a 'united' not 'divided' UK! Let's keep UK parliament in total control! Let's not end up in the EU with Turkey! Let's work on making our UK a success!
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  203.  @bryangeake5826  I am aware you have arguments and I am not saying these are wrong - I am simply saying they will not persuade enough UK people to bring to fruition. There is no right and wrong in this game - just opinion and fact. You can choose to eat five apples - you just cannot claim there were six apples - or claim the apples were oranges. These polls really are a nonsense - the last lie in the box of pro-EU lies. Who can challenge them 'they are independent' right? - So they just keep on and on with the 'Brexit regret' mantra boring the arses off a disinterested nation... I mean are these the same pollster experts that predicted a Remain win? Because, I won a lot of money believing the opposite of what they were saying. I drank three bottles of red wine that glorious night and hung an eight foot Union Jack in my bay window! There were ways of calculating the result those 'experts' did not even know about.
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  204.  @bryangeake5826  You talk about the 2016 result as though it is somehow relevant now or will be somehow relevant if there is ever a join referendum. The 2016 result is like an expired general election result - entirely useless in terms of predicting anything. We are in difficult times - these periods of public resentment never last forever. It's easy for EU carpetbaggers to make Brexit the UK's bogeyman, but people are not so easy to cajole with threats and fear-mongering as you seem to believe. No UK government is going to attempt to join the EU, because it would need a referendum and it's too big a political gamble a foolish 'hill to die on'. There's a whole list of important things for future UK governments to be getting on with to start going backwards digging up the Brexit debate. The country grew tired of it and wants togetherness and stability - not be marched up and down like silly soldiers by The Grand Old Duke of York.
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  205.  @therealjetlag  No - I mean require UK MPs to work for the UK people who vote them into power and pay their wages - not work for 450 million EU foreigners who don't vote for them and don't pay their wages.
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  206.  @bryangeake5826  OK! I don't know if you noticed, but the after the 2016 referendum a huge majority of MPs and a huge majority of peers and the EU and the UK Civil Service and the UK 'news' media and the UK's religious/education/medical/business Institutions were all opposed to the UK actually leaving the EU. The people of the UK were subjected to years of an unprecedented propaganda campaign, Leave voters were told they were stupid, racist. Democracy was dismissed and undermined. There was 'yellowhammer' the 'Brexiteers' suddenly became Farage, Rees Mogg, and the loonie right to turn a natural majority against democracy and independence from the EU - ignoring the fact millions of Labour voters had voted Leave. This anti-Tory propaganda turned hard-of thinking Momentum against Brexit. This was the drive for a second referendum to reverse/reduce the 2016 result IT FAILED What's not to understand?
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  207.  @bryangeake5826  If Remain had won with 52% and seven years on the UK was still not an independent country, would you think it was right to hold a second in/out referendum on the basis, people like me who had made up the 48% had not gotten what we had voted for? Because, if your answer is 'no' it would demonstrate you are not a real democrat, but a fascist who believes his own opinion overrules the opinions of anyone who holds an opposing opinion..
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  208.  @bryangeake5826  Ouote: The age of consent in many EU countries is 14 - so not all Remain voters are nonces but all nonces voted Remain...
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  209.  @bryangeake5826  Austria 14, Italy 14, Bulgaria 14, Germany 14, Hungary 14, Liechtenstein 14. All UK nonces voted Remain to use EU freedom of movement to live in above countries (and many more EU countries where age of consent is 15). Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Why would a racist vote to prevent people of the same race living in the UK? The argument was over when the 2016 referendum votes had been counted.
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  210.  @bryangeake5826  I never said 14 was the minimum age across the EU - you said I said that so you could pretend to be intellectually superior by googling the subject and correcting what I didn't say. I just said men that want to have sex with young girls would likely vote Remain to have equivalence with European mindset.
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  211.  @bryangeake5826  And so is your point about racists voting Leave irrelevant - I merely demonstrated that fact to you. Your attitude reveals an inner belief that, you can do things, but others cannot do the same things. Which is why you have this bee in your bonnet over Brexit - you just cannot stand it that, other people can think and vote and bring about democratic change that is different to your own political wants; that, only you should be able to achieve. You think you are the only one whose opinions should matter. You think your opinions are right and and all contrary opinion is wrong (or irrelevant) by very definition of being opposite to your own 'more important' opinion. In your mind's eye 17.4 million people are thick, racist, and irrelevant. I was ten years old when the UK was joined without referendum the EEC - I didn't like then and I never liked it - like others, I believed it was not the natural destiny of the British people - I could see it was a top-down imposition by an out-of-touch, greedy, selfish, uncaring anti-UK minority. I remember being disappointed with my parents for voting to stay in the EEC. The difference between me and you is, I accepted democracy, because I knew it was better than no democracy. Because no democracy would mean being controlled by people like you who believed anyone with opposing beliefs and ideas was simply 'irrelevant'.
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  212.  @bryangeake5826  Are you that self-obsessed to not see my comment about the age of consent was a response to your comment about racism? It was done to demonstrate the absurdity of your comment - but you just don't see this - do you? The reason I don't want FOM with Turkey, is because I don't want millions of Turks coming to the UK pushing UK citizens out of jobs, houses, public services. I believe a UK government should focus on training and employing the people already in the UK and have some vetting procedures in place to decide what kind of people we allow into the UK. I don't have any issues with race or nationality, I just make judgments based on attitude and behaviour. We cannot say anyone voted Leave or Remain over race because, the question was about other things. For all I know many people might have voted Remain for no other reason that hatred for English people. But I cannot say this. It would be like accusing a person of being a KKK member for no other reason than they had purchased a white bed sheet. I suspect you resorted to wagging your finger about race, because you know you have lost the argument and you think you thinking black people somehow need your superior white assistance, somehow makes you right about everything and me wrong about everything.
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  213.  @therealjetlag  Well, that's your opinion and you are entitled to have it and believe it.
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  214.  @bryangeake5826  Farage's poster depicted a few thousand mainly young men marching toward the UK in hope of a better life - last year forty five thousand mainly young men crossed the English Channel in boats illegally in the hope of a better life. The UK people are entitled to know the facts and the poster has been proved to have been factually correct. It's not illegal or unusual to want/expect your country to have a system of immigration control. If we have a labour shortage we should decide how many and who is allowed to live and work in this country. I cannot just go to USA or Australia or any other country to live and work without having permission.
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  215.  @bryangeake5826  I don't care what colour people are - it's you that seems obsessed with this immutable human feature. Why do you bang on about race - are you viscerally conflicted? It seems like so many, you have decided an easily identifiable type of person requires your prepotent assistance to exist in the world.
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  216.  @therealjetlag  Because MPs belonging to parties supporting the UK's membership of the EU and MPs of any party opposing Brexit were/are considering the best interests of EU27 people when they should have been/be considering the interests of the people who pay their wages. What 'Brexit lies' are these? Name the one you think is worse and cite it exactly and demonstrate with fact why you think it is a lie.
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  217.  @bryangeake5826  Well, If you are going to claim 5% of the Leave vote was based in hatred, I will claim 5% of the Remain vote was based in hatred. So, if we make a mathematical adjustment for 'hatred' - erm let's see - oh! We still have a thumping Leave victory! Have you ever been to Northern Ireland, Scotland, Southern Ireland? There's a lot of people in those places with an innate hatred for English people.
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  218.  @therealjetlag  Of course, it means working for what they support - what - do you also think UKIP supporters are trying to get the UK to adopt the euro? Political activists with political ideology have loyalty and work toward the success of the political organisations they support, this is sometimes called 'vision'. I did ask for one example of what you thought to be a Brexit lie cited verbatim and a demonstration with fact why you thought this, but, hey ho Lie number 2: that the EU is “unelected” I don’t think this is a lie, I know it’s a lie Fact: The EU Commission that is responsible for all EU policy for the EU parliament to vote on is not elected by a democratic vote of the EU people. Lie number 3: that it was an oven ready deal Fact: This is obviously an analogy based statement that, cannot be a lie. It would be like saying Bob's your uncle' is a lie, because you haven't got an uncle Bob. The deal was prepared to get sorted - like an oven ready meal is prepared to get cooked and enjoyed. Lie number 4: that they need us more than we need them Fact: The import and export figures of goods manufactured by and bought from each side suggest that to be a true enough statement not to be a lie. Lie number 5: that the NHS would get £350m a week Fact: The NHS gets more than £350m a week. If you mean it was claimed after Brexit the NHS would get an extra £350m per week - the UK government has confirmed this to be the case. Lie number 6: that we would stay in the single market Fact: This was not 'promised' and no one was in any position to make such a promise. The referendum was not a general election - there was no manifesto - no government ready to take office. In a referendum people not associated with the official campaign, can say what they like within the law. It's not against the law to say 'No one's talking about leaving the single market' No one was talking about joining the eurozone - but I did not believe they were not planning it - so I didn't trust them. Did you trust that statement about the single market? No - you just think other people are more stupid that you. Besides plenty of people said Brexit would mean leaving the single market. I think you said something about more 'Brexit lies' keep them coming..
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  219.  @bryangeake5826  What exactly is this "impirical [sic] evidence" were people spotted in KKK robes carrying burning crosses on the way to vote - and if they were how do you know they voted Leave? There might be racists in the UK, but if there are these people vote in general elections too - does this make the parties they vote for racist? A racist probably has a favourite flavour potato snack - would this make 'cheese&onion' racist? As for the victory; Leave was the high-risk option and Remain was the safe option - so we can say with certainty Leave voters really wanted UK independence. However, we cannot say all Remain voters really wanted to be part of a federal (EU run) Europe. There was no positive case presented for the political aims of the EU - most Remain voters voted out of fear of the unknown or selfish desire to retire in a warmer climate. I think had Remain been honest as David Cameron fleetingly was and said the UK will survive Brexit and still be a leading world economy - the vote would have been 65/35 for Brexit. In any case, a huge cold wet dead caught in British waters fish smacked on the smug face of the pro-EU policies of the main UK parties - Ha! Ha! Ha!
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  220.  @bryangeake5826  OK I'm not reading all that right now (I've got potatoes on the stove), but I think you mean complaints of race related incidents increased - typical false flag - just like Jess Phillips' 'strong room' - who would advertise a strongroom in the news papers? That's like telling everyone you have a safe behind the picture above the fireplace - silly and obviously done for effect. All done to paint Leave voters as the bad people. You are writing too much nonsense that nobody is interested in. To win a join referendum you need a catchy slogan on a bus - not a Ted Talk. It's like we had a vote on whether the town hall should be painted red or brown and you want to waffle on about how the stupid voters did not understand there are hundreds of different shades of red... Boring and ineffectual gibberish.
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  221.  @bryangeake5826  I don't know about all this race stuff - I have lived a while and I haven't seen any evidence the English are racist. Yes, there's a inescapable perceptible difference between people,of different race and this will flag up in various ways, but the same can be said about being tall or speaking with an accent or having red hair. There's no real harm meant in this. English white people don't consider themselves better than black or brown people and our history demonstrates this. Both my Grandfathers were career soldiers of Empire each serving five years in India, Iraq and elsewhere. My father was a career Fleet Air Arm serving in Ceylon and elsewhere. I only heard stories of affection and admiration for the people of these places. The British were never like other European countries with empires, history shows the British had respect for diverse custom and culture (OK we drew a line at throwing widows on their husband's funeral pyres). You just have to look at the White Rose Letters published in WW2 by German students which pointed out The British do not act this way against civilians Of course the German authorities quickly silenced the students under the guillotine. Or, let's look at Leroy Henry, a US GI stationed in England in 1944. A white English woman accused him of rape and the US Army court sentenced him to hang. The local English (you would call unconscious racists) began a petition, because it seemed the woman was a prostitute who had taken payment and consented to sex before making a false allegation. The petition raised 33000 signatures (before internet) and the US Army was forced to release Leroy without blemish to his record. The same year (1944) in USA they sat a 14 year old black boy (George Stinney) on a Bible on the electric chair and threw the switch while he pleaded his innocence. No we are not racist - people like you are more racist, because your superior attitude makes you bang on and on and on and on and on and on about how you think people who were not born looking like you need your help and approval to exist and you really do this, because it makes you feel good about yourself. I bet right now you support the killing of Russian soldiers because you don't like ethnic Russians voting for independence from the EU. I bet you support the pro-EU Ukraine government ban on the Russian language in education, on TV and in employment. You are so anti-racist you support the persecution of 9 million ethnic Russians.
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  222.  @bryangeake5826  Well, I don't mind a bit of arrogance, but it must be accompanied with success - nobody has time for a big-headed loser. The point I am making about race, is there's too much unnecessary talk about it which is counter productive and even racist. It is very possible to incite racial hatred by teaching young non-whites that, white people deprived them of something. There is obvious division - if you choose to exploit this for political gain, it will backfire. Look at George Floyd - the cops didn't kill him because he was black - they killed him because they were bad cops. But, The lefty 'news' media/politicians went nuts about how white people hate black people. The US cops killed a white man (Tony Timpa) in the exact same way, but no 'cops are racist' uproar. Lots of white people have been killed by US cops and a few weeks back five black US cops killed a black man (Tyre Nichols). How is this supposed to be racist? The thing is some political activists like to make these things all about race and stir-up racial tensions. The idea is anything or anyone they don't like gets slurred as being racist and they (the accused) cannot prove otherwise. Bit like when Jeremy Corbyn wanted to make Labour policies that reflected what Labour Party members actually wanted - like nationalise the UK railway - the Labour MPs and lefty 'news' media said this was anti-semitism and now any talk in the Labour Party of socialist policies are equivalent to bringing back The Holocaust. The reason you are racist is you select people on basis of skin colour and think they should have different treatment. Like I said, the cops are just bad cops - the white ones and the black ones.
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  223.  @bryangeake5826  If you claim police brutality by a white police officer against a black person is racist, but think the exact same brutality by a white police officer against a white person is not racist, and the same brutality by a black police officer against a black person is not racist then, you are making judgements about character based on purely on race. Martin Luther King dreamed of living in a world where people did not do this. You are essentially having a discriminatory approach to police officers having an 'equality based brutality programme'.
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  224.  @bryangeake5826  If you wind back and try thinking; it was me who first raised the issue of white on white racism, when I accused you of supporting the persecution of ethnic Russian people in Ukraine. Is not banning a people's language being used in education, on TV and in employment 'intended to degrade their humanity'? Why are you supporting the people who did this?
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  225.  @bryangeake5826  If you do some research the war in Ukraine is all about the EU, basically the people in the West want to join the EU and the people in the East want to join the Russian Federation. I used it as an example of your utter hypocrisy - and how you (and the EU) have very different human rights principles for different people. You support the people of Scotland to choose independence from the UK and join the EU. You support the Good Friday Agreement which states the people of Northern Ireland can choose to leave the UK and join with the EU Republic of Ireland. BUT when millions of persecuted ethnic Russian speakers vote twice for independence from a country twice the size of the UK - you and the EU stamp out their attempt at democratic self-determination with your EU jackboots.
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  226.  @bryangeake5826  It all comes down to the same thing - one ethnic group of people discriminating against another ethnic group of people - you are contradicting yourself - you have to because, your 'human rights' stance is plainly inconsistent.
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  227.  @bryangeake5826  So, there we are; you clearly think prohibiting the Welsh language in UK education, on UK TV and in UK employment would be "an arguable point"
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  228.  @bryangeake5826  You are making digressive strawman arguments to try and save your caught-out covert racist ass.
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  229.  @bryangeake5826  Hang on a minute! Are you actually saying the Russian Federation that, is twice the size of the US and spans eleven timezones cannot do democracy? Oh! that's right, I forgot you only pretend to like democracy when people vote in accordance with your dictate. You have spent the last seven years undermining democracy in your own country. Own up Brian - you don't really like democracy do you? You really want to tell everyone how they should live, because you think you know better that others.
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  230.  @bryangeake5826  So, according to your latest strongly held belief a nationalist that voted for Brexit cannot be a racist, because as you state: "Nationalism is different from racism" Can you not see my point about how you have different strongly held beliefs to suit your arguments? Because everyone else reading this can.
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  231.  @bryangeake5826  No Bryan, we are not in ancient Athens, but this did not prevent you taking part in the 2016 referendum and it would not have prevented you from rejoicing in a Remain victory, so again we are witness to your hypocrisy. Then we see you complain that, big areas of land/people like Russia are not democratic "the larger a country it is means its ability to be democratic goes up???? How odd that view is!!!!!!" Yet you vehemently argue the EU parliament with three times the population of Russia is 'very democratic', more inconsistency to suit your ideological narrative. You talk of killing people to influence the outcome of elections - one person with one vote was killed in the 2016 referendum and the pro-EU side shut down the democratic process (well the Leave campaign) to enable pro-EU politicians and 'news' media (Remain campaign) to accuse would-be Leave voters of supporting murder - not the first time this has happened in 'EU democracy'. You are being very inconsistent in your arguments Bryan - the knowable facts are catching you out.
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  232.  @bryangeake5826  Not at all, I was commenting on your lack of respect in dismissing a nation's democratic process. I have not said a large country cannot be democratic - you said this not me. I merely pointed out that, your contention was inconsistent with your belief in EU democracy. I'm Beginning to see this is beyond your intellectual ability, Bryan. In trying to be clever you have made a fool of yourself for all to see.
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  233.  @bryangeake5826  And what if 17.4 million people have voted not to be one of the "EU's citizens" do you feel anyone has a right to force this on them?
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  234.  @bryangeake5826  But you took part in the referendum Bryan - so, you must have thought it to be a valid process with a valid outcome. Are you really arguing it could only be a proper referendum if Remain won? You are revealing yourself to be mentally disordered, Bryan.
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  235.  @bryangeake5826  Yes, I do, because when you have an actual poll of 33.5 million votes the polling science tells us the opinion of those that did not vote would be the same result. It could be argued that, because non-voters are by definition opposed to 'politics' they might, if forced to vote be more inclined to go against the establishment.
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  236.  @bryangeake5826 Yes, your side has been arguing the opinion of a thousand selected people on hypothetical questions is somehow an accurate reflection of how 44 million people might think or actually vote. The result of 33.5 million actual meaningful votes made after an exhaustive political information campaign would be 99.9% accurate, if applied to opinion of those people who did not vote. No significant question about it. Your contention that, a majority of those who couldn't be arsed or were too young to vote, wanted the UK to remain in the EU is flawed.
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  237.  @bryangeake5826  My model is 33.5 million actual votes of all kinds of people in every postal code in the UK. There could not be a more accurate sample of voting intention. You took part in the referendum - so you must accept the outcome. Were you the kid at school who entered the running race only to protest it wasn't fair because the other kids ran faster? The 2016 referendum is 'in the bank' and cannot be changed - so just accept it. If you want the UK to join the EU you have to forget that referendum and start a political party or join a political party with a 'join EU' policy. There are still loads of MPs in parliament that want to join the UK to the EU, but they know they would need a referendum win and this is a big problem for them. I expect the plan is to gradually sneak the UK closer to the EU and then in time join the Single Market/Customs Union without referendum. Then who knows what they might try. Personally, I think the 2016 Brexit seed will begin to take root and will grow. It was a massive sea change in UK politics and people are waking up to the way MPs have not put the UK first. Never before has a UK political party been able to say to every voter: 'The country voted to leave the EU and the MPs fought against it and have not delivered what was voted for" That's a very powerful message - especially to those who voted for Brexit.
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  238.  @bryangeake5826  You say you do accept the 2016 referendum and then immediately start telling me why you don't accept the 2016 referendum. What I meant by 'in the bank' is that result stands until it is reversed - it can not be changed in any other way than by an in/out referendum. The UK did not leave with a 'no deal' and Leave voters feel the UK is still hampered by EU restrictions. The question on the ballot stated "Should the UK leave the EU" however, NI and the UK as a whole has not completely freed itself from EU controls. The thing about Brexit is it is a massive change in UK politics and in a democracy such as ours it will take time to see how this has changed voter thinking on how the UK goes forward. The 2016 result was in effect a revolution against the ruling political class - unfortunately that ruling class has just stayed in place. The question is will the people wake up to this fact? Your Lefty news article doesn't tell us very much about this meeting other than they managed to get hold of a document revealing the meeting was "private" Why shouldn't MPs of different parties discuss Brexit? For all we know the realisation might be sinking in the UK electorate is not going to vote to join any time soon and as time goes on and the economy/living standards inevitably improve people will be less inclined to even discuss the topic. They may have all decided constantly 'blaming Brexit' is a pathetic image for a country and it's time to get on with making the UK as good as it can be. As for your hopes for a Starmer led government. I should remind you that in 1990 the polls were showing Kinnock's Labour Party to be above 50% - at the 1992 GE John Major's Tories gained 2.5 million more votes than Labour. So, we will have to wait and see. Who knows the ghost of Jimmy Savile might appear in the weeks before voting. There is also a real possibility the Torries could split over Brexit and a hundred known MPs might stand as Reform MPs giving Reform a huge nationwide boost. Have you seen Reform's 'take back British ownership' policy? A lot of Labour voters are going to like the idea of all the profits going to the NHS and UK pensions. It's just plain silly to suggest Brexit has not been a success - nothing is a success until it's had a reasonable opportunity to work. We have only really been out for 2 years. 'Sour-grapes' Remainers claiming Brexit has failed already - just makes Remainers look petulant to most people.
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  239.  @bryangeake5826  I think questioning what was essentially a national democratic judgment with the intention of undermining the verdict is 'not accepting the verdict'. We've heard all your spurious arguments about it being 'advisory' and 'close' but these to not stand factual scrutiny: We know the referendum was advisory, we did not leave the day after the votes were counted - we left after the UK Government elected on a manifesto pledge to end the UK's membership of the EU won a general election landslide victory. So, the MPs were 'advised' and the Government decided on that advice to do Brexit. This is almost how the UK was joined to the EEC/EU the only difference being there was no consultation with the UK people. The 1970 Conservative Party general election manifesto contained a pledge not to join the EEC "We will negotiate; no more, no less" Yet, the elected Conservative government went ahead and joined the UK to the EEC. 'Close' - the 1970 Heath government needed to pass legislation making EEC law superior to UK law in order to join the EEC. This passed by majority of 17 votes. The 1970 Heath government had a majority of 30 MPs which included Ulster MPs. The 2016 referendum had a majority of 1 269 501 votes. The 2019 Johnson government had a majority of 80 MPs which did not include Ulster MPs. Now tell me. Is '80+ MPs greater than 30 MPs? And tell me. Is 1 269 501 voters greater than 17 voters?
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  240.  @bryangeake5826  That's where we are on the EU! Two political mindsets, one thinking the UK is better off being an independent trading nation and staying out of the EU - the other wanting the UK to be part of a single currency federal Europe. Which side do you think is best placed going forward?
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  241.  @bryangeake5826  That's it - isn't it? Everything and anything that doesn't suit you is somehow 'irrelevant'. How is "We will negotiate; no more, no less" not a pledge? It means 'negotiate: no more, no less' ... WTF do you think it means? You think my arguments are irrelevant, but in this debate it's you who is irrelevant. Please tell me what relevance did your X against Remain on the ballot really have? I'll answer for you, because there is only one answer: JACK S#!T
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  242.  @bryangeake5826  None of knows what the future will bring, especially in politics. If you are honest you will own up to telling everyone Remain would win the referendum 60/40. You asked if I will be around in 2030 - I don't know and neither do you.
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  243.  @bryangeake5826  Yes, I read all that in the 1970s. The point is thinking something is a good idea, talking about it and actually doing it are all different things. Stating you will not go further than talking about something means you will not do the thing you are talking about. You have to be insane by definition to think this is not the case - and an insane person thinking a thing - does not make that thing correct.
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  244.  @bryangeake5826  OK, let's look at your own words written today out of your own thinking about the EU: "So will we want to give up some sovereignty to be part of this alliance [EU] in the 2030's? I think we will" And let's compare your words to the words of prime minister Edward Heath addressing the UK nation in a TV broadcast in January 1973 to mark his signing of the Treaty of Rome: "There are some in this country who fear that, in going into Europe, we shall in some way sacrifice independence and sovereignty. These fears, I need hardly say, are completely unjustified" So, you see, by your own words you have demonstrated the people of the UK were tricked into joining the EEC/EU.
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  245. So, no food shortages due to Brexit then...
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  246.  @tonymcfeisty2478  That wouldn't be worth publishing, as there's only one idiot who thinks six million EU citizens applying to stay in the UK after Brexit has no relation to a comment about the post Brexit UK economy. Perhaps, you should write a book on how to waste your life entitled: 'Never Stop Remoaning'.
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  247.  @domhart9046  I think the latest figures are 2.8m granted 'settled status' and 2.3m granted 'pre-settled status'.
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  248.  @domhart9046  These are not ordinary people, they are economic migrants that have shown a determination to up-sticks and go where the grass is greener. Factor in that it is always easier to return to family and friends and one's own country. These people choosing to stay in the UK is a huge endorsement of the UK economy and demonstrates positive impartial belief in Brexit Britain.
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  249. ​ @domhart9046  Nothing new about that - Brits have been going to live in diverse places for centuries - have you decided which country you want to emigrate to?
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  250.  @domhart9046  "The figures also show more than six million applications (6,015,400) were submitted between the launch of the EU Settlement Scheme in March 2019 to its closing date of 30 June 2021. More than 2.8 million of these (2,846,700) were granted settled status, allowing them permanent leave to remain. And another 2.3 million (2,329,400) were granted pre-settled status, which means they need to reapply after living in the country for five years to gain permanent residence." (Sky News)
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  251.  @domhart9046  If we take unemployment as an indicator we see the UK was doing well post WW2 until joining the EEC/EU. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c4/United_Kingdom_unemployment_1881-2017.png
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  252.  @domhart9046  You not changing your position on Brexit is like King Canute ordering a lifetime supply of underwater breathing equipment.
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  253.  @domhart9046  Life was crap in the EEC/EU - we went from one unskilled wage being able to keep a family and buy a home to both parents having to work and being forced to claim tax credits to feed and clothe the kids - and no chance of buying a home. Seriously, where did you get your rose tinted EU glasses?
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  254.  @domhart9046  Sorry Dom, but your 'intellect and resolve' amounts to yesterday's wrong vision - half a century of wasted billions and wasted alternative opportunities. One great big mistake; an imposition that was never supported by the vast majority. Probably 20% of the UK electorate positively participated in the political EU project.
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  255.  @verystripeyzebra It was stated in this thread that, people had voted for Brexit on the basis of Leave campaign lies, so I asked for an example/proof of a Leave campaign lie. You came back with a false quote which I assume was manipulated from: "absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the single market" (Daniel Hannan).This is not 'a lie', because, it contains no knowable incorrect fact. After the referendum result, there was political uncertainty about whether the UK should remain in the EU single market. The oyster problem was solved with filter processing in the UK creating UK jobs.
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  256.  @sjd7810  Are you thinking of putting all that on the side of your bus lol? I think voters are more concerned about having a job...
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  257.  @sjd7810  How are employment figures my only concern when I have also said UK exports to the EU have increased and the cost of living and food prices in the UK are better than EU countries?
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  258.  @paultaylor7082  The bus didn't say 'extra' it said 'instead' - either get a dictionary or stop lying - or both!
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  259.  @maartenaalsmeer  I have been getting my info from a reputable impartial source, which leads me to conclude you are inventing your info..
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  260.  @maxharbig1167 What is the point in saying the EU will never agree to have the UK back when the UK people never waned to be in the EU and will never want to join the EU? It was always a top down imposition - go watch the 2023 _'national rejoin march' and you will see why you saying the EU will never agree to have the UK back is absurd.
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  261.  @verystripeyzebra That could be the rejoin bus message: 'We buy more from the EU than the EU buys from us, but we used to buy even more - let's give up the Pound and give up independence and give the EU 30 billion a year'
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  262.  @avalanche816  Is this the reason the '2024 National Rejoin March' has been cancelled? Perhaps the organisers were afraid too many people would attend...
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  263.  @verystripeyzebra  you're - and don't rubbish stats when they don't suit your position then use the same stats when they do - thicko...
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  264.  @verystripeyzebra  The UK has only really been out of the EU since 2021, so, either the average German and French workers have had recent wage increase and recent improvements to pensions, or it's clear the UK's 40+ years as a member of the EU did not benefit the average UK worker/pensioner.
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  265.  @maxharbig1167 There are 'reports/polls' suggesting the UK people regret Brexit, but the truth is 70% of UK voters don't even think about the EU. Of the 30% that do think about the EU, probably 33% (10% of UK voters) want to rejoin the EU. Unfortunately, this 10% of UK voters are more influential than most and are making a lot of noise (dodgy polls). However, the likelihood of any UK political movement persuading a majority of UK voters to rejoin the EU is around zero.
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  266.  @verystripeyzebra  I think it's remoaners who are living 'UK/EU La La Land' - you do get the UK is not a member?.
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  267.  @CliffUK49 The data I have used is based on local average income and shows for 'cost-of-living in Europe' the UK is currently at 13 so, better placed than countries like France, Netherlands, Austria, Denmark. The point being Brexit cannot be the cause for recent change in the UK standard of living, because any change is consistent with change in EU countries. The point you make about being able to work and afford a decent lifestyle is valid. However, the UK's membership of the EEC/EU 1973-2020 did not result in improvement in the lives of UK workers. We essentially went from an unskilled single wage being able to keep a family (before the introduction of in-work benefits) and even buy a home; to both parents being forced to work, forced to claim benefits to feed and clothe their children and not being able to buy a home. This is probably the main reason the UK's working class voted to leave the EU.
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  268.  @M.Linoge  If I ever need a loser - I'll let you know...
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  269.  @gloin10  To see economic growth there needs to be an increase in Gross Domestic Product (GDP). This can occur through an increase in consumer spending or an increase in products produced. The level of disposable income can determine the demand of consumers. This means that unemployment figures are a very important indicator when deciding if the economy is strong. When there is high unemployment and redundancies, people may have less money to spend on goods and services. Fewer demand for goods and services means that more companies will struggle, which in turn drags down GDP. The other effect of high unemployment and redundancies is that people who are already employed may not feel secure with their jobs. This can discourage them from spending money and they will save it in case they lose their jobs. Of course, this will also have a negative impact on GDP.
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  270.  @timonsolus  The UK being in the EU was a matter of undemocratic imposition by a political class overrun by traitors - the UK people never wanted the federal Europe that was always covertly planned. This is why the pro-EU 'movers&shakers' opposed a referendum on joining the EEC, opposed a referendum on staying in the EEC, opposed a referendum on joining the EU, opposed a referendum on leaving the EU - then when the people had seen the true picture and spoken - they wanted a referendum...
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  271.  @timonsolus  The Conservative Party leadership and government put an in/out referendum on UK/EU membership in its 2015 general election manifesto and won the 2015 general election...
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  272.  @atomiccritter6492  What is "oh deary me" supposed to mean? Let's have some facts for debate - not pretentious groans...
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  273.  @timonsolus  Problem with that course is although the UK had become a member of the EEC/EU without a referendum there had been a referendum on continued membership and this predicated having a referendum decision to leave the EU.
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  274.  @atomiccritter6492  You prove my point with more pretentious presumption - if I have stated something that you believe to be untrue then say what and why. Don't just allude to something without any proof.
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  275.  @saoirsehaslonglegs2313  We are discussing Brexit that was voted for in a way that each vote counted. The UK was joined to the EEC/EU by fptp after a manifesto promise not to join.
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  276.  @atomiccritter6492  I have not seen you post opinion or fact - just pompous sneers.
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  277.  @atomiccritter6492  So, you accept more than half the votes is a mandate for change and that the UK should not be member of the EU - at least we have cleared that up. The fptp system is not perfect, but it's not going to change because it would require a majority of MPs to vote to end their jobs and historic constituencies. As for re-joining the EU - that would require a 'should the UK re-join the EU?' referendum win for 'yes' and that's a fantasy for loons... My advice is: 'accept reality'.
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  278.  @atomiccritter6492  You have not asked me to provide proof of anything. What have I have said that you require proof for?
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  279.  @andrewrobinson2565  "Our sole commitment is to negotiate; no more, no less" (CP manifesto 1970)... Not everyone reads the manifesto of the party they vote for and whether the UK was in the EEC was a matter of concern for every voter. Besides, your point is negated by the fact 'joining the UK to the EEC' constitutes more than 'negotiation' - so a clear 'undemocratic' breach of the manifesto pledge to UK voters by 'traitors'.
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  280.  @andrewrobinson2565  Do you think I'm stupid? The Oxford definition of 'negotiate' is: "to try to reach an agreement by formal discussion" - so no 'concluding those negotiations' 'included' in the meaning at all. Oh, and language cannot negate fact. They knew what they were doing - it just scraped through UK parliament on arguments of UK sovereignty - so clearly a matter for the people.
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  281.  @atomiccritter6492  Good plan! While I am distracted your friends can reverse Brexit.
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  282.  @andrewrobinson2565  You omitted 'to try' from the Oxford definition - can we have the 'whole' truth please? Anyway, your need to argue the nuances demonstrates you accept the manifesto was at best ambiguous.... You're too easy ;o)
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  283.  @saoirsehaslonglegs2313  Prince Philip was not Russian - you probably misheard someone saying he was 'rushing'...
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  284.  @saoirsehaslonglegs2313  I had a brief look and it seems one of his eight great grandparents was half Russian - don't see how that makes anyone Russian.
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  285.  @andrewrobinson2565  Are you wrong about everything? There is a bloodline leading back to Romanovs, because his great great grandfather was Nicholas I of Russia. That does not make him Russian though, as he had fifteen other great great grandparents (including Queen Victoria) that were not Russian.
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  286. How are the Scottish Nationalists going to leave the UK when the ferry isn't finished and the police have their camper van?
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  287. So, which other PM went to a comprehensive school?
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  288.  @RomaCharly  Do you remember Enoch Powell and Tony Benn? Both were great intellects and both were opposed to the UK's membership of the EEC/EU.
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  289.  @derekmulready1523  'Sovereignty': supreme power or authority. "the sovereignty of Parliament" The authority of a state to govern itself or another state. "national sovereignty" (Oxford)
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  290. "House prices could take an 18% hit over the next two years and there will be an “economic shock” that will increase the cost of mortgages if the UK votes to leave the EU, George Osborne has warned." (The Guardian, May 2016) "In the chart below we show the average house price inflation by region in England and Wales since the EU Brexit referendum in June 2016. House prices have risen the most in the North East up 48.0%, followed by Wales up 47.0% and Yorkshire and Humberside up 46.8%.19" Apr 2023
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  291. Of course there are problems disentangling the UK from the EU. The whole idea of the EU is to replace democracy with economic subjugation. It doesn't mean those that got us into the mess were right to do so. No one can argue that the UK's involvement of this political project was not an imposition on the people by a minority in power. Half a century of wasted opportunities and hundreds of billions of £s wasted.
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  292. Steve Bray did a good job persuading the UK people to give up political independence, give up The Pound, give the EU 39 billion Euros each year and offer UK jobs and housing to 500 million EU citizens. "Where's your [burp!] Brexit benefits?"
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  293.  @ADifferentBias  A recent poll asked people would they vote to join the EU (if joining the euro was a condition) and only 24% said yes. Any opt-outs or delay in joining the UK to the euro were because those wanting the UK to join euro, knew they did not have the support of the UK people.
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  294. What's the point of moaning about something we voted for seven years ago? If we were to have a referendum on applying to join the EU - the 'Yes' side would be lucky to get 20% lol! Can you imagine the 'Woke Bus' with Suzi Izzard and Steve Bray shouting 'Give up sovereignty and give up the pound!' lol!
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  295. Andy 'Brexiteer' Burnham!!!
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  296. Why don't you lot form a political party to rejoin the EU - Oh - you did and it got destroyed...
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  297. And what is the EU's plan if there is no-deal and UK trawlers fish in EU waters?
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  298. Great comment! We can all agree on something you said...
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  299.  @lfcgero35  I was agreeing with the part where he says he knows nothing about politics or economics...
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  300.  @lfcgero35  I now live in a democracy in which the people I can vote for can forget having a vision about a federal Europe and get on with making my country as good as it can be.
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  301. At the next GE the Labour majority will collapse like a house of cards in an earthquake.
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  302.  @garyshepherd9367  That cannot be true as we would play the didgeridoo.
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  303.  @steveharvey2001  Unlike the very clear black on white statement "We will not join the euro" by the pro-EU UK government on its UK voter funded £10 million pro-EU leaflet (that would be £10 million over the fair campaign spending limit) urging the UK electorate to vote Remain. Of course the pro-EU politicians were dead against the EU flagship policy of a single currency...
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  304.  @rocketscience4516  The most important thing is the UK is out and the future will be about rebuilding our country and putting right past mistakes. The UK electorate never wanted MPs with gallivanting ideas about a federal Europe. MPs should get on with what they're paid to do - to make the UK the best it can possibly be for UK citizens.
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  305.  @rocketscience4516  I didn't say the cost of the leaflet was 'the most important thing'. You said I said that and that I had somehow contradicted myself. When it comes to the economy, no one knows what the future will be. That leaflet that you say I should have paid attention to also said this: "It’s a big decision. One that will affect you, your family and your children for decades to come." So, it was right to look at the long-term. Leave voters did not expect an immediate upturn in the UK economy - we all believed that big changes would take time to come together. The point is Leave provided an honest vision. Whereas, Remain just said 'We are the economic experts, we will not have the euro, there's no EU army, we don't want a federal Europe, do what we say or you will have no planes, no medicine, no food, higher taxes.' And they wonder why they lost! As for referendums; the pro-EU lot did not want a referendum on joining the EEC/EU, did not want the 1975 referendum on continued membership, did not want a referendum on joining the EU and did not want the 2016 referendum on continued membership... Then when they did not like democracy they wanted a referendum.
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  306.  @geraldhewing329  How's the campaign for a second referendum going?
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  307.  @rocketscience4516  "Better things to do" ... What's this - stapling bits of cardboard to sticks and painting them blue and yellow?
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  308.  @geraldhewing329  Whether the UK should be in the EU is not a left or right issue. Many people argue the EU is right and does not allow left policies like public ownership of things like electricity/water supply and public transport. The UK was in the EU for 40+ years and in that time the EU supporting parties oversaw the transfer of UK public assets to the private sector - this was 'life in the EU'. 'Freedom of movement of labour' always benefits the rich and individuals - it never benefits the poor. The simple truth is UK working class people have become much worse off. In the 1970s and 1980s a single unskilled wage could keep a family and buy a house. After 40+ years of EU, both parents have to work, claim Tax Credits to feed and clothe their children and cannot buy a house.
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  309.  @rocketscience4516  If you look online you can find photos of Grimsby's fishing fleet and fish processing factories before UK's EEC/EU membership. The facts show the UK fishing industry was decimated by the UK's membership of the EEC/EU. Brexit will bring huge new opportunities for UK fishing. There's no evidence the UK car industry will suffer because of Brexit and many reasons to think it will do better. The UK has most universities in the world's top twenty and most of the universities in the world's top hundred are either in the UK or have connections with The Commonwealth. Why would that suddenly change?
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  310.  @rocketscience4516  I'm sitting in my house two miles from the port of Newlyn - I used to work in the fishing industry on shore and at sea - I know the fishing community supports Brexit.
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  311.  @geraldhewing329  I don't think I'm ignorant about the EU at all. I happen to know a lot about the EU considering it has zero jurisdiction over my life as a UK citizen. The point I was making is that, whilst the UK was in the EU and being governed by EU supporting UK governments, the public sector became the private sector - this was 'life in the EU' - hardly 'socialist'... 'Brexit' was portrayed as being 'right-wing', because Remainers knew 60% on the electorate did not like Conservatives and many Conservative voters did not like Rees-Mogg - so Ress-Mogg became the Remain media's 'face-of-Brexit'. We didn't hear anything about 'No2EU' or even Kate Hoey...
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  312.  @geraldhewing329 Just a coincidence then? That: in the 1980s the pro-EU Liberals were opposed to sell-offs, but all the same split the poor vote to make sure anti-EU Labour did not get in and the pro-EU Tory sell-offs went ahead. Then when the pro-EU lot took control of the Labour Party public-ownership was somehow a 'vote loser' despite polls showing 70% in favour. Then when pro-EU Liberals split the vote again, but had the choice they put the pro-EU Tories in and sold off the Post Office. Then when Labour wants public-ownership again - the pro-EU PLP say this is same as being racist against Jewish people... And Tony Blair is worth £50 million (thank you very much)... Like I said: 'hardly socialism' being in the EU and governed by EU supporting people - is it?
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  313.  @geraldhewing329  MPs really get selected by those in control of political parties, so we the public get to 'democratically' select already non-democratically selected people into power. You think those with real power do not know this? The EU has been planting its cronies in all parties since Heath. If we have a democracy why does its actions not reflect public opinion? In my lifetime there have been four great impositions on the people of the UK. By this I mean significant changes the people would not have voted for by majority if, 1) they were aware of the facts and 2) they'd been given the opportunity. These are the UK's membership of the EU, excessive (mass) immigration, the handing of public property to a wealthy minority and excessive (mass) unemployment. You think Tony Blair worked his life as a true champion for the working class movement and as his reward the working class gave him £60 million? Who makes the most significant decisions in society? Politicians right? So, are politicians likely to be the nicest people in society, or the craftiest people in society? You're only seeing what they want you to see.
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  314. And I'm old enough to know not to believe everything in news reports...
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  315.  @angussoutter7824  1970 - 1980 UK was world 6th largest economy - so not 'sick man' of anywhere.
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  316.  @ab-ym3bf  I didn't realise UK population in the 1970s was greater than China.
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  317.  @angussoutter7824  Not sure what you're trying to say there Angus, but I think the gist is that you did not support 1980s Tory privatisation - well, neither did I.
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  318. Really, the UK has been one country for a long time and fulfils all criteria to be recognised as one country under international law. A national flag, one currency, one head of state, one army, navy, air force and a political government and leader. It's time we stopped all this tribal nonsense from centuries past.
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  319.  @Llortnerof  So what you're saying is one EU country cannot control itself?
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  320. Where is the EU going? It just lost its most influential member - ultimate worldwide humiliation.
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  321.  @geraldhewing2076  Would those be the same polls that said Remain would win? It's just that I said Remain would lose and thanks to your polls, I won a lot of money ;o)
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  322.  @geraldhewing2076  Just because 48% voted for a life in the EU doesn't mean 48% now want a life in the EU. That 48% has subdivided into 20% rejoiners and 28% rebrainers. I would guess the country is 30% really want out, 20% really want in and 50% couldn't care less. Because we left with a referendum, we would have to re-join with a referendum and that means the 20% convincing more than 3/5 of the 50% (11 million people) that the UK should re-join the EU. Serious politicians know this is impossible.
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  323. Greyfriars was a school for boys and had a headmaster. More Remain fact-changing to suit narrative.
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  324. After the Brexit referendum there was a majority in power that desperately wanted to reverse the vote. The only way to do this was a second referendum. Parliament stalled Brexit and waited for 'the people' to change its mind. A propaganda campaign was launched: 'the bus was a lie' 'racists voted Leave' 'Remain voters were more highly educated' 'ignorant people had not understood the EU' 'racist abuse had increased' 'Brexiteers wanted a return to the British Empire' 'many Leave voters were realising they had made a mistake' 'Brexit would mean empty shelves' 'Brexit would mean no medicines' 'return to IRA volence' 'unpicked crops will rot' 'bla' 'bla' 'bla' it was relentless (some are still at it). The idea was to make enough of those who had voted Leave change to Remain, hold a second referendum and cancel Brexit for good. The people behind all of this knew that patriotic types had voted Leave and that a good way to get at some of these would be to tell them 'Brexit will lead to the break-up of the UK'. If anyone thinks about it, Scots were far more likely to vote 'Yes' in 2014 with Scotland in the UK and the UK in the EU.
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  325. You're almost right - most people have knowledge of politics and vote the same way and it's difficult to get these people to change their voting pattern. But, there is a bunch of people that vote differently and these people know not very much about politics. Somewhat bizarrely, it is this bunch of people that decide who becomes prime minister. This is why politicians talk in simpleton during election campaigns and why Boris acts like a buffoon.
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  326. I think Boris wants a normal deal, but the EU doesn't. The EU needs a deal, but is very concerned that whatever free trade terms it gives to the UK it will have to give to another EU country. The EU knows it cannot say: 'Yes, we gave it to the UK, but that was because we had to - we can bully you'. So, the EU is going for 'no-deal' on the basis the UK will not play fair. In the end, the EU has to balance the hardship/dissent no deal will bring to EU countries against making it attractive/possible for those countries to leave.
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  327.  @JohnSmall314  There would have to be a referendum at some point. Applying might be possible if a government won a majority on a manifesto pledge to apply. However, this would be a high risk strategy, because losing the inevitable single issue referendum would sink the government. The reality is there's not enough support for the UK to join the EU and any government attempting it would soon collapse. The basic theme is the UK always moves forwards not backwards.
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  328.  @chubeye1187  It is the wrong way because the UK democratically decided to leave the EU and has embarked on a new course.
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  329. What do the political campaign to re-join EU and Meghan Markle have in common? They both cannot be found in the UK.
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  330. The truth about the face masks was there was not enough and they were more concerned about health workers in the front-line... 'Just in time supply' fail.
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  331. This is the Labour disaster 86% of UK people didn't vote for...
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  332. I see the UK Government is offering financial assistance to EU nationals residing in the UK to help them return to the EU, if this is what they choose to do. This is very good news for those who want to live in the EU, but find travel and relocation costs prohibitive.
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  333. I suppose the hardest thing for remoaners is seeing support for the UK's membership of the EU go from a public vote of 48% to perhaps 20% wanting to rejoin. Then again, it must have been hard getting the 48% and thinking - if only we had ramped-up project fear. If we had just lost by a few votes we could have had a paramilitary vote and run with it. We(BBC,ITV,SKY,C4) could have said it was old people and racists - so no need to ever have another referendum. Aww-diddums - it must be hard being a remoaner loser and very embarrassing too.
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  334. If, as Andrew Parker claims he is a Reform supporter and was "goaded" to making racist remarks - where are the recordings of other Reform supporters doing the goading? If Andrew Parker is a Reform supporter why hasn't he just said he isn't a Reform supporter and accepted cash to goad racist remarks out of Reform supporters?
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  335. The Brexit benefit is being the independent country we voted to become and not belonging to a political system we voted to leave.
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  336.  @Exploring_beautiful_world  Are you nuts? The UK has only been out for two years during which time there has been equally high inflation and food shortages in EU countries attributed to the same international (non-Brexit) factors. When the UK joined the EEC in 1974, food prices soon increased and two years later UK inflation based on Consumer Price Index was much higher than today two years after leaving the EU.
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  337.  @NeilCWCampbell  Well how about you cite some actual facts, instead of relying on your bubble resource of remoaner propaganda fantasy...
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  338. You lost me at 'What'
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  339. Perhaps, if you thought about it in a less partisan way. For instance, you cannot assume those that did not vote, somehow supported the status quo. A far more accurate assessment of that group would be to apply the 52/48 ratio derived from the more than thirty million sample of actual votes. You could apply variables such as non-voters being more likely to be anti-establishment and oppose the then majority 'Remain' stance of parliament. You could also apply your/mine thinking to the 2014 UK/EU elections when less than 36% of available votes were cast and just two years later half of those voters voted for the UK to leave the EU. This left around 18% of 2014 available voters positively participating in the EU political system... a tiny fraction of the whole UK population.
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  340.  @owlsrace  Why not just have the question 'Should the UK remain in the EU or should the UK not leave the EU?'
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  341.  @PanglossDr  The 1970 Tory Party manifesto did promise not to join "Our sole commitment is to negotiate; no more, no less."
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  342. Are you saying we should have stayed in the EU and only traded with white nations, only give free movement to white nations?
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  343. If 17.5 million people put 'European' this will reverse the 2016 referendum and Boris will be forced to rejoin the UK to the EU...
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  344. Just looking at Lady Lazza's latest haul from Sainos and I see there's some fresh raspberries from Spain, some fresh pears from The Netherlands and some fresh apples from France.... What a load of old tosh Project Fear really was!
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  345. This channel has persuaded thousands of people to vote Labour on Thursday, who had they not watched this channel would have voted Labour...
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  346. Tories leave no stone unturned and no closet door unopened 'As it appens - now then, now then'
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  347. We need to set up a new political party with genuine pledges to the UK people: 1, The UK will become part of the united states of Europe. 2, The UK will become part of an EU army. 3, The UK will adopt the euro. 4, The UK will allow anyone from Europe to live and work in the UK. 5, The UK will have a new principal flag. 6, The UK will have 10% say in a controlling EU parliament. 7, The UK will pay £350 million each week to the EU. 8, The UK will allow the EU to decide UK trade policy. 9, The UK will be ruled by an unelected EU executive. 10, The UK allow anyone from Europe to use the NHS and claim UK benefits. We should call our new party 'The United Kingdom In Party'.
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  348. Seems the BBC has stopped reporting on 'stockpiling food for Brexit' since Brexit became a certainty...
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  349. Yikes! I've ended up on the weird part of YouTube again
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  350.  @MalkWilliams  If, when there was a majority of pro-EU MPs in UK parliament, those MPs believed a second referendum would reverse the first, then those MPs would have voted for it. When you were hearing: 'People have changed their minds' this was pro-EU propaganda designed to change people's minds - it did not work. We don't really know what the future will be, but angry people predicting: 'The UK will break-up' is nothing new...
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  351.  @MalkWilliams  I think you're probably right. The majority of MPs that were against Brexit and were arguing for a second referendum had good information that a second referendum would be a Remain win, so they decided not to hold a second referendum... Feel better now?
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  352.  @MalkWilliams  War aside the whole thing was the biggest tragic and damaging waste in UK history and the UK will now have to rebuild anew. I blame the politicians that went ahead thinking they could induce the people into accepting foreign rule. There was always serious intellectual doubts as to whether the people would ultimately give up sovereignty. The movers and shakers were warned, but they were convinced they knew best and they were proved to have been very wrong. Ultimately, the people made the politicians understand who was in charge.
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  353.  @MalkWilliams  That's a good argument, but it's just one argument with one vote to back it up. There are different arguments and opinions. You are entitled to think the people were duped, but it's futile to do so. There's a documentary on YouTube called 'How We Fell For Europe' about the 1975 referendum - many argue the people were duped then. In its simplest form the UK people were asked whether a parliament based in another country with 10% UK representatives should make decisions for the UK people. It was necessary to have a majority agree to this.
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  354. The media are all remoaners who for years believed they were the 'movers and shakers' of UK society. Now the people have put them in their place and they are very bitter and angry and want to punish Boris. This is why so-called 'news reports' are more partisan than a 'party political broadcast'.
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  355. Basically, UK is in driving seat. The UK has told the EU its leaving and the EU doesn't like this. EU has made it clear it doesn't want no-deal and is desperate for UK to sign up to its controls making UK rejoining more possible. The UK will push for best free trade deal and then will decide between that and no-deal. It's all about what's best for the UK. The most damaging bit about this is billions of people in the world just see the UK dumping the EU.
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  356. Why should the UK give away its fish for access to the EU market? The UK is a market too and the EU will get reciprocal access to the UK market. The EU actually sells more in the UK market than the UK sells in the EU market. The EU is making itself a worldwide laughingstock with its absurd demands. The UK is aware Brexit is a humiliation for the EU and is being careful not to make it any worse for the EU than it need be. The obvious problem is France and Germany were defeated nations that believed the EU was them having power over the UK.
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  357. That's not how the Tory Party works. Boris won a huge majority putting the Tories back as the party of government from which they had seemingly hopelessly waned. The party now has a new vision based on national pride and a mandate. Boris is Tory champion and will fight the next general election and very probably win with a comfortable majority. The absurd hubris of Labour MPs in opposing a national referendum severely damaged the party's ability to gain power.
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  358. The whole point of the plot (going back to pro-EU activists arranging the 'parties') is to demean Boris and associate Brexit with lies. This is why the pious kangaroos will throw more mud at Boris. This is all about the pro-EU media being able to repeat the words 'Boris' and 'liar' over and over to indoctrinate the UK people. There is a slimy pro-EU blight preventing our people from flourishing. It's a foul disease with no decent plan, no positive message persuading us to follow; it only seeks to destroy from within. The people of the UK are not buying into the 'golden age of EU membership' we are not afraid to face the world as an independent nation. So, we need to stay strong and work together for the good of the nation.
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  359. People like Phil are a very noisy minority in the UK - did you see the recent 'National' Rejoin March? Just a handful of weird old people trudging along wondering why normal people were not listening to them. In the 2014 UK elections for the EU parliament only 35.6% bothered to vote - two years later half of that 35.6% voted to end EU interference in their lives.
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  360.  @justmenotyou3151  There is a lot of pro-EU propaganda. The people of the UK became much worse off during the EEC/EU period. Before that a single unskilled wage could keep a family and even buy a home. Now both parents have to work, claim in-work benefits to feed and clothe their children and cannot buy a home. Homelessness and unemployment have increased considerably. In the US you have 'sales tax' at 4/5/6% - the UK was forced by the EU to impose VAT which now runs at 20% on most goods. The UK economy has been damaged by the pandemic and war on Ukraine/Russia border - not Brexit. You probably confusing life on a Mediterranean island with life in the EU - that was much better before the EU too - My parents lived on Malta after WW2 and were married in Sliema.
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  361.  @cyberkraut5139  Interesting, that you believe the older generation of UK people voted for Brexit and that this element of pro-independent UK feeling is steadily decreasing. It would seem logical from your belief that, if the people of the UK had been allowed a referendum on the Maastricht Treaty and formation of the EU in 1993 (three decades ago), there would have been an even greater vote against federalisation. You appear to reveal an awareness of the EU project really being an insidious scheme of anti-democratic indoctrination intended to subjugate the peoples of Europe.
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  362. Cyber Kraut (deleted comment/copied and posted) "Most of the English haven’t learned anything. Read ​​the comment of lazza… just above. They cannot differentiate between cause and effect and mix up causes and effects so long until it is fitting their Brexit ideology. Let them first sort out their domestic problems and wait until the presently pensioned and propertied Brexit ideologists - the main voters for Brexit - have deceased"
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  363.  @ParcelOfRogue  We cannot know what the UK would be like today in terms of economic growth, industry national debt, employment, housing, healthcare, education, state pension, wages, standard of living - if we not joined the EEC/EU.
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  364. That's an improvement on invasion and occupation...
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  365. When you watch BBC Question Time, you have to factor in the BBC is a politically corrupt propaganda machine. It's obvious the audience is selected and the questions/responses deliberately framed to influence TV viewers. I only see/hear the tricks the BBC is using to indoctrinate people - I don't blindly follow like a hungry sheep. The BBC slipped-up when it 'accidentally' (an 'accident' which cannot happen) announced the collapse of WTC7 twenty minutes before the collapse (obvious controlled demolition) of WTC7 - so, irrefutably revealing it was covertly linked to the organisers of 9/11.
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  366.  @johndonson1603  Don't take the mickey - these people are 'special'. If we upset them they will go back to trainspotting and we will have no one to laugh at.
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  367.  @DavidMoxham957  But, the 1970 Tory manifesto promised not to join the EEC ("we will negotiate no more no less") - you make a very good point based on invented wrong claims.
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  368.  @DavidMoxham957  Does everyone you disagree with get compared to the Nazi regime in Germany?
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  369.  @DavidMoxham957  Yeah, but you left this bit out: "Our sole commitment is to negotiate; no more, no less." I think 'joining' constitutes 'more' than 'negotiation' - don't you?
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  370.  @DavidMoxham957  My apologies - I didn't know you were being so cosmopolitan.
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  371. Brexit is about making the UK successful, so as a Brexit voter I want to see UK businesses expanding into other countries. We heard much from Phil about how great and powerful Nissan is. Well, guess what Phil? Nissan is a Japanese business that has set up a company in the UK and is hiring UK workers. Japanese unemployment is half that of UK.
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  372.  @errorswillmultiply1697  I would use the word 'profitable' as in 'it can be profitable to set up companies in other countries'.
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  373. Does anyone else think he means 'riding'?
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  374.  @TheBeast-ub9jo  Did you know the 13 stripes on the USA flag represent the original British colonies and the blue bit with the stars on started out as the British flag....
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  375.  @paulwilson2651  It will be possible to make those cuts and more and raise tax revenue in other areas. The idea is to target people who might dabble with an anti-Brexit vote and make them think again. Particularly when they're in the polling booth all alone...
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  376.  @jimstirling7223  In my experience the Tories always get rather generous when they want to win an election. Anyway this is a different Tory Party the pro-EU lot have been defeated. The UK Parliament will do anything to keep Scotland in the UK.
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  377.  @paulwilson2651  You think 20% off takeaways and 20% off clothes will not make people think? You're obviously out of touch with ordinary folk. Johnson will have to show the voters something to prove they were right to follow him out of the EU.
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  378.  @paulwilson2651  Those cuts could be compensated for in other areas. The pandemic has cost a lot and this needs to be paid for. When the country is back to normal the UK government will announce a plan that will involve more tax but targeted VAT breaks will be used to protect the poorest in society. An independent Scotland joining the EU customs union and single market would have to reverse any VAT changes to be inline with EU VAT rules.
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  379.  @paulwilson2651  VAT can be used like the Purchase Tax that was in the UK prior to joining the EU. It can be taken off essential items and increased on luxury items. Also, other forms of taxation can be increased or expanded. VAT at 20% hit poor people in many ways. People will see the EU as a regressive tax regime and want no part of it.
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  380.  @paulwilson2651  Scotland voted to remain in the UK and the UK voted to leave the EU.
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  381.  Karl Zaraiva  They just give low paid families £500
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  382.  @paulwilson2651  So why did you vote 'Yes' in 14 - after you had been told that? You either believed an independent Scotland would be accepted as a member of the EU or you wanted an independent Scotland out of the EU.
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  383. 'Sovereignty' is being able to decide your relationship with other countries and not have a president you have not voted for decide your international affairs.
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  384. Don't forget folks that when the UK joined the EEC/EU UK citizens were forced by the EEC to pay VAT on almost everything they needed. Prior to this the UK had a 'Purchase Tax' that was only levied on luxury non-essential items. The EU currently forces EU citizens to pay a minimum 15% tax on the purchase of standard rated goods/services. The UK government had to charge 20% on purchase of standard rated goods/services in order to raise the billions of pounds demanded by the EU for so-called 'free' trade. In other countries like Austrailia and the USA business pays tariffs for their trade with the EU and sales taxes on the consumer are 10% or even less (average USA only 7.25%). So, if the UK goes to WTO tariff based trade with the EU and UK citizens are no longer forced by the EU to pay VAT. The UK will be able to lower this horrible tax from 20% to whatever it likes on whatever it likes making the things UK citizens need more affordable.
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  385. I just heard from a 'friend of a friend' about Starmer's secret strategy for the next general election. it's called 'Plan Borbyn' and involves Keir growing a beard and dyeing his hair blonde. ..
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  386. He got 3m less votes than Corbyn in 2017 and is losing more voters everyday - the last thing he wants to do is alienate 17m Leave voters...
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  387.  @jonathanwetherell3609  If you are correct about 'no-deal' - what do you predict will be the most significant single impact on the UK people. What will this be? What will be done to counteract? What will the effect be?
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  388.  @batcollins3714  The world sees it differently. Most people think if they were a child being put into an overcrowded inflatable boat to venture into dangerous seas, they would hope a policeman would puncture the boat before it was launched, not look on smiling.
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  389.  @Noises  I'm actually gong to China for the first time next month - so I might change my mind.
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  390. Wow! Phil has become a remoaner lodestar, leading the way for mainstream remoaner media - well, according to Phil he has....
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  391. A week ago I posted the following comment on one of Phil's videos: "Notice how nothing has been mentioned about stockpiling for Brexit since it became certain that Brexit was going to happen... Says it all really. " Take a look for yourself; Google: 'stockpiling for no-deal Brexit' and you will see hundreds of 'news' articles which all pre-date the Dec 2019 general election. Now do the same search for the last month and you will find nothing. This is proof the UK people are being fed propaganda by pro-EU media. Obviously, Phil feels caught-out and has made this video to appear more consistent - nice try Phil.
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  392. If today was 'opposites day' this would be the most interesting video on YouTube.
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  393. Did anyone see Farage wearing shoes? Photographs exist of Hitler, Mosely and Putin wearing shoes!!!
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  394. Why does Phil think Europe is the EU? Is he thick? Must be...
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  395. The world is very impressed by Boris speaking Russian 'like-a-boss'. CBS News reported that, President Biden had also addressed the Russian people in fluent Russian, but translators later confirmed it was 'no known language' and President Biden had 'actually been attempting to read his notes in English'...
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  396. Do keep us up-to-date on Femi Oluwole's political views - he's a great statesman speaking for the British people.
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  397. Here's what could have happened: C4 hires undercover experts to do 'racist' sting on Reform UK. Undercover experts hire Andrew Parker to pose as Reform canvasser and goad racist remarks. Andrew Parker is not to be used on TV (unlikely he would agree to this). Undercover expert and Andrew parker infiltrate genuine Reform canvassers. Andrew Parker fails to goad racist remarks from genuine Reform canvassers. All video and recordings are handed to C4 news staff. C4 news staff are aware of undercover expert, but mistake Andrew Parker for genuine Reform canvasser and use Andrew Parker on TV. Andrew Parker's 'actor' cover is blown and C4 are looking very silly. C4 state 'he's not an actor we didn't hire him an we never seen him before' Andrew Parker claims he was "goaded" into making racist remarks. So, where are the recordings of genuine Reform canvassers 'goading' Andrew Parker?
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  398. And what was your pre-referendum prediction for the UK's future in the EU?
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  399. Just letting you guys know there's petition on UK Gov for re-joining the EU and it's already got 43000 signatures! Oh! Hang on! Too late - it's already closed after six months...
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  400. Isn't that loud mouth Bray?
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  401. 80% of the UK electorate believe Brexit is not to be revisited - which is why it cannot be revisited - better to pretend there is support for rejoining - than kill the dream.
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  402. Hey Phil, there's a good bit of anti-UK propaganda going about that you might like to use for your channel. Some lorries in the EU have been spotted with stickers saying: "We don't go to the UK". Clearly, the purpose of the stickers is to deter migrants from entering the lorry to effect illegal entry into the UK. So, here's how you spin it; first make a sneaky alteration to the wording and cite as 'We won't go to the UK' then make specious argument about how EU lorry owners are now refusing to facilitate EU trade with the UK. You could always let slip that, actually you were the first to see this story, but at the time you seen better ways to damage the UK.
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  403.  @AaronOkeanos  Are you Greek? I am in Greece for all of September extending my friendship to the Greek people and spending my GBP. Phil is an anti-democratic know-all whose actions create and spread discord.
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  404.  @johnmunro4952  No I don't believe you. Your ideas are yesterday's mistake. The UK's future is bright. The UK people made a decision not to believe lies and not to cower to threats. They made a decision to be free.
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  405.  @AaronOkeanos  Not at all. Your mind appears full of suspicion and hatred for foreigners. I suppose you chose a Greek user name to mislead people.
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  406. Remoaners are starting to get 'project fear fail jitters'...
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  407. The UK was joined to the EU(then EEC) by a UK government that had stated it would not do so in its election manifesto and without holding a referendum.
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  408.  @batcollins3714  Well, to begin with 'treachery' is acting on a 'difference of opinion'. The reason I refer to the 'movers and shakers' behind the UK's dalliance with the 'united states of Europe' project as 'traitors' is straightforward and justified. As educated people like Tony Benn and Enoch Powell pointed out, the UK is a sovereign democracy in which the UK people are rulers. It is not practicable for the UK people to fulfil the office of government or the function of parliament, so representatives are chosen by the UK people and bestowed with temporary power. This power belongs to the UK people and is on loan from the UK people and must be returned to the UK people in full. The UK people never asked for 'the project' and the project involved the handing of power from the UK people to people who were not UK people. Those UK politicians that did this were small in number and did not tell the truth to the UK people, because they knew the UK people would not consent to their objective. For this reason it was a clear act of treachery against the UK people (UK).
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  409. Brexit voters didn't care about UK trade disruption - they just wanted the UK out of the EU. Remain voters were split 50/50 between those that wanted the UK in the EU, even if that might be worse for the UK economy, and those that only voted Remain because of disruption to trade and the UK economy. There has been no noticeable difference on trade and most people take the view that 'teething' problems will be resolved. This means that, in a 're-join' referendum around 75% would vote to stay out.
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  410. I wonder if Jim'll fix it for Liz - 'As it appens'
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  411. The EU will not want them because it would constitute an act of aggression against the UK. The EU will likely pull away from Southern Ireland, as it does not want a far-flung weak border and it does not want republicans to drag it into conflict with the UK. In any case, many EU countries also have breakaway regions and would not give their support. It's more likely Southern Ireland will want to join CANZUK.
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  412.  @hornblowerkarl1966  Nigel Farage is on the adverts on Phil's channel.
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  413. Where's this channel going? The UK people are never going to vote to join the EU - why would they? To payout thirty billion a year? To give up independence? To end the pound? To open UK borders? To join the EU Army? To enjoy the social harmony of EU France? To experience economic vitality of EU Germany? To have even more useless politicians and national elections? Exactly what's your selling point?
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  414. I agree! We should have stayed having foreigners rule our country, adopted a foreign currency and allowed any foreign person from 27 foreign countries to live and work in the UK - that way we could have avoided a couple of petrol stations running out of petrol and a temporary queue of lorries...
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  415.  @tomd5678  If that makes you feel better Tom - you say it...
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  416.  @vsiegel  Before you start shining your jackboots - just think about what happened last time...
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  417. What? How do you think anyone is going to 'force' the removal of NI from the UK? The only way NI is leaving the UK is if the UK government allows a referendum and that referendum results in a majority vote to leave the UK. In reality, persuading 50+% to vote to give up their national identity, benefits, free healthcare, pensions, currency, national flag, national anthem, passport, monarchy, legal system, education system, UK armed forces, Commonwealth membership - is going to be more difficult than you might think.
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  418.  @SirBlade666  Not sure what you mean by 'the government' - the way it stands - it is up to the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (UK gov) to decide if a referendum will take place. This should happen if it appears to him (or her) that there's a clear majority to leave the UK. At the same time there should be a referendum in ROI on unification. Only the UK government can organise a referendum in NI/UK and I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon. Though in theory, the UK government could hold a referendum when it wants.
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  419.  @hasse102  Why is it a 'fact' that England will not be able to afford NI? The UK is a country with an economy the same size as France, yet France is more than double the size of the UK - so by your reckoning France should be breaking apart long before the UK does. What people like you don't understand is that after the Brexit referendum, the pro-EU establishment was desperate to change people's minds and reverse the 2016 vote. They knew patriotic Brits had voted for Brexit, so they tried to frighten some of these types by saying 'Brexit will lead to the break-up of the UK'. It was nothing more than propaganda that only Remain voters believed. The simple truth is that, UK membership of the EU and EU future made it much easier for people in Scotland and NI to vote to leave the UK and Brexit has made separating from the UK much more difficult.
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  420. Don't forget folks that when the UK joined the EEC/EU UK citizens were forced by the EEC to pay VAT on almost everything they needed. Prior to this the UK had a 'Purchase Tax' that was only levied on luxury non-essential items. The EU currently forces EU citizens to pay a minimum 15% tax on the purchase of standard rated goods/services. The UK government had to charge 20% on purchase of standard rated goods/services in order to raise the billions of pounds demanded by the EU for so-called 'free' trade. In other countries like Austrailia and the USA business pays tariffs for their trade with the EU and sales taxes on the consumer are 10% or even less (average USA only 7.25%). So, if the UK goes to WTO tariff based trade with the EU and UK citizens are no longer forced by the EU to pay VAT. The UK will be able to lower this horrible tax from 20% to whatever it likes on whatever it likes making the things UK citizens need more affordable.
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  421. Where did you buy a laugh - was it the Comedy Store - is that open on Monday mornings?
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  422. What if a woman was living with her husband at their own privately owned home whilst subletting her prior council home (that she was still claiming benefits for rent/council tax/water charge) and then buying the council house at discount price to sell as soon as they could keep 100% profit and dodging tax on the profit?
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  423.  @emm_arr  Exactly!
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  424.  @roisinmalone3015  I suppose the UK could have took the Southern Irish approach. Refuse to fight against tyranny, issue condolences on news of Hitler's death and blacklist Irish heroes that fought to prevent them ever getting a decent job.
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  425.  @rais1953  Yes, old Winston was a blighter for causing continental droughts.
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  426.  @Fordnan Southern Ireland has had 50 billion out of the EU - a lot of that was donated by the UK.
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  427.  @williamMcsweeney2024  Of course the Native American Indians have been paid in full by the Southern Irish settlers you seem so proud of... Now learn to live in the real world , my English speaking friend.
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  428.  @memisemyself  'Donate': "to give money or goods to help a person or organization". So, in this case the UK 'gave money' to 'help' an 'organisation' that helped 'people'. So, as you say the UK provided the money to build new piers for the Duchy of Cornwall and similar projects in the UK and to build new roads, develop sea and air ports, develop the electricity network, telecoms and education system in Southern Ireland.
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  429.  @memisemyself  I think you might be judging me by your own standards. I'm not bitter about the UK giving SI money. I hope your country continues to prosper and the UK will continue to trade with SI. I haven't said or implied otherwise. I was just informing anyone disparaging the UK that, the UK has helped SI and other countries.
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  430.  @memisemyself  People in the UK are not bitter or resentful about UK money used for development in other countries. There are countless examples worldwide of UK money being used that way. Of course in any political election every vote is needed and every argument is used. However, the main reason people in the UK voted for Brexit was for sovereignty. The 'bus' was complained about after the vote because Remainers believed it had 'made the difference' causing enough Remain swayable people to choose the NHS. In the UK we would normally say 'Northern Ireland' and 'Southern Ireland' when referring to those places. It's not meant to cause any offence - I don't see why it might.
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  431.  @memisemyself  It's not intended to undermine your national identity. All of Ireland was once a part of the UK and people in England referred to it as 'Ireland'. I'm English; my Grandfather and his brother grew up in Dublin as boy soldiers in the British Army. Then Ireland was divided into North and South - so we in England refer to the different parts that way. This doesn't alter what people there now call their country. In England we call other countries different names to what the people there call their country. 'Spain' - 'Espana' - 'Germany' - 'Deutschland'... In Spain they call 'Germany' -'Alemania' - it's just a thing - there's really no need to be so touchy.
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  432.  @phillipwilloughby5013  I wasn't talking about that Phillip. I was referring to the membership contributions made to the EU by each country and how much each country has taken from the EU. Since joining the EEC/EU Southern Ireland was given 50 billion more than it contributed. And since the UK contributed twice what it got back - some of that 50 billion did come from the UK 'poking its nose in'...
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  433.  @Bruce-1956 The meaning of 'independence' is always decided by those who seek it.
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  434. Brexit has led to Phil expelling an excess of carbon-dioxide.
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  435. Lammy can tell the Germans how he knows Marie Antoinette invented radiation.
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  436. It doesn't matter what some people wanted from the UK becoming an independent country. What matters is the UK people voted for the UK to become an independent country. The only thing that matters now is the UK people are never going to vote to give up UK independence. 'Fool me once shame on you - fool me twice shame on me'
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  437. I doubt it - most SNP voters voted Brexit and think they will be better off with the English.
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  438.  @lfcgero35  Do you mean the idea is doing well in the polls - just like Remain was doing very well in the polls?
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  439.  @lfcgero35  This might come as a surprise to you, but more people than you have an opinion. As a matter of interest, what was your pre-2016 prediction for the UK's future in the EU?
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  440.  @herbsttkis989  The SNP made a big mistake in agreeing to Scotland taking part in the 2016 referendum, as it accepted the known possible outcome of leaving the EU as part of the UK. If, Scotland is sovereign to hold a referendum without UK parliament consent, then it was sovereign to refuse taking part in the referendum, when it was Scottish government policy for Scotland to remain in the EU. Whether a indy2 goes ahead will rest on which parliament has legal authority to give the go ahead. UK parliament is saying no and a court will uphold UK parliament authority because of above unequivocal acceptation of such.
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  441.  Benny Reed  It's against EU law to deprive a person of property - are you always a hypocrite or just when it suits you?
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  442.  @lfcgero35  So, you think there's no nationalism for the UK in Scotland and 'Yes' won in 2014? .... Did everyone else get the result wrong?
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  443.  @lfcgero35  If Cameron said that he was not in any position to - so no one should have taken any notice. Politics doesn't work like that. There's no proof the Scottish people want to be in the EU - they might vote differently if a re-join referendum was held in six weeks time. In 2016 Scotland and Northern Ireland voted as part of the United Kingdom. It was the Leave votes from Scotland and Northern Ireland that stopped a Remain victory.
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  444.  @mwuerz  In English we use 'your' for possession (your sunglasses make your eyes appear blue) and 'you're' (shortened 'you are') ('You're looking very cool wearing your sunglasses').
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  445.  @stephenfowlie742  You clearly don't speak for the Scots, because the Scots voted to stay a part of the United Kingdom.
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  446.  @stephenfowlie742  Had Scotland voted to break from the UK, there would have been no obstruction to EU membership, either from the UK or the EU. There would have been a transition period in which the Scottish government and EU would have made arrangements for Scotland's EU membership to commence on the day Scotland left the UK. It's not clear that Scots would rather be with the EU than the UK. The present circumstances are very different from 2016 and more 2016 Remain voters would now vote Leave than vice versa. The Scots have not 'voted that way twice in 6 years', because the SNP have not gained more than 50% of the vote and many SNP voters did vote for Brexit seeing EU membership as the opposite of 'independence'. We will have to see what happens in May, but I hear many SNP voters are opposed to EU imposed Greek/style austerity.
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  447. @Panzawurst Actually, the 'reality' is that vote was in 2016 and in very different circumstances. Many Scots would vote differently today.... Or are you now saying the 2014 Scottish independence referendum is 'proof' the Scottish people do not want independence?
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  448.  @panzerkami2381  That's easy SNP voters cannot decide who they resent most, the English or the EU. Now the UK is out of the EU they are smart enough to understand where their bread is buttered.
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  449.  @stephenfowlie742  If you think back to 2016, the Conservative Party was urging its supporters to vote Remain - the Conservative Party policy is now for an independent UK. Many Scottish 2016 Remain voters would see the problems of the UK rejoining the EU.
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  450.  @panzerkami2381  No one thought Brexit would have no difficulties or instantly increase the UK economy... And that was before anyone knew about covid.
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  451.  @stephenfowlie742  Well, stop voting SNP then...
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  452.  @stephenfowlie742  You are just like the losers in the last referendum that are known as 'remoaners' because you, like them, think democracy is all about you and you cannot accept other people have a right to democracy too. In 2014, a majority of Scots voted to stay in the UK. You should respect those people's wishes, as you demand everyone respect yours. You did not win in 2014 and you did not win in 2016. Allow the winners to have democracy.
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  453.  @stephenfowlie742  So what do you want me to do - think the side with the least votes should win?
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  454.  @theprintfloor  So, do you just want their right to vote taken away? The reason I ask is elderly English people use up houses and food - does this bother you too? What with you experiencing redundancy and all...
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  455.  @stephenfowlie742  I look at the result of the 2014 referendum and your 'we' was not the majority...
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  456.  @theprintfloor  The reality is most young people do not care about Brexit. In fact most people don't care about Brexit. In 2014, just 36% of the UK electorate participated in the UK/EU elections for UK MEPs - two years later half of those voters voted to leave the EU - that leaves 18% of the UK electorate positively participating in the EU... What's the point of living a long time with that?
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  457.  @pspence9569  Am I supposed to say: "no it isn't" then you say: "yes it is" and we keep going until one of us gives up?
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  458.  @pspence9569  I would hope I have been making serious factual political points. I understand others may make opposing arguments, as is their right. Isn't that how it works? I'm English and I feel I have a stake in Scotland, just as I feel a Scot has a stake in England. Our peoples have been united for 300+ years. It seems to me a handful of resentful haters want to destroy everything to satisfy their bitterness and some others to satisfy their own remoaner egos. I will oppose the breakup of the United Kingdom and so will many millions like me.
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  459.  @pspence9569  Is politics tiring?
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  460.  @lours6993  You do know Brave Heart is a movie - right?
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  461.  @panzerkami2381  No one promised me anything - I wanted Brexit since 1973.
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  462.  @thevoid5503  That sounds way more plausible than the SNP ever achieving Scottish independence. Don't forget there's a hefty wall there built by Europe because they didn't like the Scots.
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  463.  @panzerkami2381  Boris Johnson was leader of the Leave side. It was his role to give a positive picture and sell Brexit, I'm pretty sure he acknowledged some transition bumps at the time. However, it was the Remain side that pointed out the negatives. This is how it works. There were two options. Each side pointed out the positives of one option and the negatives of the other option. So, when the electorate was ready to vote they'd heard from both sides. At this point: "No one thought Brexit would have no difficulties".
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  464.  @panzerkami2381  Just a thought on indy2. In 2014, the UK establishment seen the UK future in the EU. The plan was all of Europe being regions within the EU using the euro. Had Scotland left the UK and adopted the euro it would have softened resistance to UK adopting euro. It's now 2021 and that establishment has been defeated - the future plan has changed. Scottish independence would now mean the end of Great Britain and foreign forces in charge of what had been in Great Britain for 300+ years. Do you really think the people of Great Britain (60m) are going to allow it to happen?
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  465.  @mike-bv2jc  So, are you saying all 'No' votes were really 'Yes' votes and all the 'Yes' votes were really 'No' votes? I suppose that would be grounds for another referendum, but there would be no point, because nobody would know what the result was.
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  466. The reality about Brexit is in the analogy of 'driving a bus over a cliff' though, I prefer the analogy of 'trying to get a bus up a cliff'...
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  467. You cannot claim that, because 'SNP has 45 seats in Scotland' the Scottish people somehow want independence. If the Scottish parties supporting UK alliance formed an electoral-pact offering an anti-independence alternative to the SNP - it would be a very different outcome.
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  468. This is like having to listen to a trainspotter explain why all the people in England should not travel on a train pulled by a locomotive with a serial number ending with an odd number, but it's perfectly OK if the locomotive with a serial number ending with an odd number pushes the train for 17% or more of the journey - only much less interesting...
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  469. I was recently in Austrailia and just wanted to say I found the meat there to be much better than in the UK and EU. The beef roasting joints have an amazing flavour and are much more succulent. The lamb, pork and chicken is excellent too. The price is comparable with the UK, but much more affordable to Aussie wage earners. Last time I checked, Australia was not a member of the EU.
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  470. The UK has not become the fully independent country the UK people voted for, so we must blame those that stood in the way for all shortcomings
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  471.  @NeilCWCampbell  You need to learn to understand 'words' lad... The UK people voted for the UK to be fully independent and this has not happened, because EU supporting MPs opposed the will of the UK people. This is not the Brexit the UK people voted for - so blame the pro-EU MPs for all problems. Had the Leave campaigners been given the absolute power to deliver the Brexit the country voted for - you might be able to criticise lad...
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  472. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJsrJUuonkM
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  473. Do you lot never learn? - The goodie bag will replace the hatchet 18 months before the next general election.
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  474. The people of the UK have been subjected to an anti-Brexit propaganda campaign in an attempt to change the 2016 result. The position now is that a second in/out referendum would produce a 65+% vote for leaving the EU. The people know that, if the UK goes to WTO it will not adversely affect their lives. There has been so many people 'stockpiling food' that the media can only find pictures of a few known anti-Brexit activists with a normal week's worth of groceries. Remainers are desperate to avoid no-deal, because there would be no unresolvable problems and plenty of advantages and new opportunities and people would see there's no point being in the EU.
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  475.  @ADifferentBias  All we have left is a manipulative political elite that refuses to accept it was wrong. Yesterday, on Jeremy Vine a woman said: 'I voted Remain but, I'm done! We have to get out now and do our own thing!' This is what 20% of the 2016 Remain vote now thinks - you're living in a land of unicorns to imagine otherwise. People don't want to be 'frightened' into a 'good' thing - it's all over 'mate'. Time to make a decision: relocate to the EU - or waste the rest of your life on YouTube flogging a dead horse.
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  476.  @ADifferentBias  Our 'own thing' is being an autonomous country with its polices and laws determined by its own citizens. The people that voted Leave do not want 'empire' they have voted to leave an empire. The people of the UK want to be like Canada, India, Australia, New Zealand with a national set of lawmakers, one flag, one head of state. The UK has a 10% say in the EU - by definition this means the UK people do not control UK destiny.
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  477.  @sebastianlahns8023  That's really interesting... Got any more gems?
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  478. I suppose if Labour wins the next GE the remoaners will have to bash Brexit Britain and its Labour government and argue we need to give the EU money and beg for some of it back in handouts...
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  479. Perhaps pretending to sleep in a tent is how you win the power to change things. Perhaps finding fault and laughing at such tactics is how you become powerless to keep the things you want to keep.
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  480.  @ADifferentBias  All we need is 326 MPs to vote to give up their well-paid and important jobs and to end their historical constituencies - can't wait for that to happen...
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  481.  @geraldhewing329  Because he makes money creating La La Land scenarios that people like you want to hear.
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  482.  @geraldhewing329  "Really?" What? Does Phil make money out of this channel? According to information on said channel - yes he really does. Is the content of said channel to build a political case against the UK not being a member of the EU? According to information on said channel - it really is. Do people like you want to hear this content? According to information on said channel - yes they(and you) do. That you disagree on a minor hypothetical issue does not alter any of the above.
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  483.  @geraldhewing329  Farage was not a representative of the Leave campaign and as an accuser you should name the Conservative Minister and provide a precise quote of what was actually said. Any person is free to say that, they believe a country will join the EU in the future and any person is free to agree or not. I have found this Vote Leave statement: "Turkey is one of five new countries joining the EU". There is no question that Turkey had began the 'joining' process and this can be proved by its 1987 application to accede to the EU and other facts. The UK government referendum leaflet advised voters: "It’s a big decision. One that will affect you, your family and your children for decades to come." So it was understandable people would think Turkey might be an EU member by say 2035 and decide to vote accordingly. If Turkey joined the EU, then its citizens would be EU citizens and would be able to live and work in an EU/UK. It seems you would have preferred this information was withheld from voters by pro-EU forces.
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  484.  David Riffon  And now all the world thinks the EU is worth nothing because the Great Britain has done a Brexit.
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  485. It's not about what is 'better' it's about what most people wanted. Brexit is like moving to a different city - you make a decision based on various factors and you get on with it. It's no good saying: 'There was jobs, houses, supermarkets, hospitals, schools, police and a swimming pool in the old city, because nothing is gained from negativity? The point is all of those things are in the new city and we made the decision to move. Life is not about looking backwards and moping over past actions - there has to be change and a positive outlook in order to prosper.
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  486. The inherent problem with this show trial is it's being decided on political/personal grounds not evidence - if you want/like Boris, he is innocent, if you don't want/like Boris, he is guilty. It's the same sort of propaganda fueled ('people couldn't visit dying relatives') 'justice' meted out by The People's Court in 1930s/40s Germany.
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  487. The comment section reads like a lost chapter from 'One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest'
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  488. Vote Reform UK on July 4 - those holding you back don't want you to.
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  489.  @emm_arr  Putin = A leader that protects Russian speaking people from nazis who banned their native language in education, employment and on TV. Zelensky = A leader who takes a murdering nazi to Canada parliament to be applauded.
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  490.  @errorswillmultiply1697  How am I facing oblivion? As for the rest of your comment; I would respond, but it reads like something Joe Biden would splutter...
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  491.  @ignaciom8906  Good! It is not that UK people do not want to work. UK employers used EU labour because it was easy to get young strong people. This pushed many UK workers out of work. Imagine a greengrocer continually restocking shelves with fresh apples - there would soon be lots of not so fresh, but eatable apples left to rot. In the UK the people don't want our people to rot.
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  492. @mark totton So, what do you think millions of EU workers come to the UK for - the weather?
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  493. @mark totton They are taking them - just not overnight.
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  494.  @jounik  It took UK membership of the EEC/EU around a decade to produce permanent UK mass unemployment - so give Brexit a chance.
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  495. Love him or hate him - probably the most impactful individual in modern British politics. And as often pointed out - he has never been elected to Westminster. It could be argued that, had it not been for Farage the establishment would have pulled it off.
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  496. There's no point trying to predict a fantasy referendum. At this point in time it seems very unlikely a rejoin referendum would happen in the next 10 years. One thing the 2016 Brexit referendum and the Australia Voice referendum proved is that, a Government cannot tell people what to do.
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  497. Can't see Starmer getting into No10... 'Jim'll fix it' for the Tories.
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  498. Of course it could be argued Brexit is a mistake. We have had a referendum campaign and years of political debate in which many intelligent people did exactly that. The problem for those people is we live in a democracy and they were not able to persuade the electorate to support their argument.
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  499.  @emm_arr  That is one of the many arguments that have not been supported.
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  500. So, it turns out Brexit is like the UK and EU being separate political organisations! Good! That is precisely what we voted for!
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  501.  @gloin10  Silly me! I must try to think of something that is relevant to EU citizens.
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  502. The EU is not interested in any other UK countries joining, because it would be seen as open aggression against the UK, also many EU members have similar breakaway issues they don't want to ignite. It's more likely the EU will withdraw from ROI, because it really doesn't want a far-flung open border and any sectarian trouble would inevitably drag it into unwanted conflict with its much larger trading partner. There might have been lots of GFA hot air when they thought they could prevent Brexit, but things have changed and ultimately money will make all the decisions - as it always does. It's looking like Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the UK will be getting close again - the ROI might see advantages in forgetting about potato blight and going down that road.
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  503.  @wodmarach  It is the same currency because it is the same entity.
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  504.  @michaelmayo3127  What is 'a gammon'? Is this going to be the rejoin slogan on the rejoin bus when the rejoin referendum never happens? _Vote rejoin or we will call you a gammon!' How old are you?
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  505.  @seriousoldman8997  The inch, foot, yard, mile, ounce, pint etc. are part of English culture/heritage - if people want to continue using these things - that would be called: 'living in a free country' - what makes you think everyone must do as you want?
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  506. She didn't mean the court was in Germany - she meant the judges do what Germany tells them to do.
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  507. @dondoodat Just correcting the lies. Difficult to see the Englishman as a 'victim' what with the entire world speaking English and playing English sports lol!
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  508.  @Leszek.Rzepecki  You should think of it the way politicians are forced to. The country does not go backwards. The people and parliament has chosen a future out of the EU. A referendum is a snapshot of opinion. Just because 48% voted Remain in 2016 doesn't mean 48% or more would vote to re-join the EU. The fact is most Remain voters were just afraid of change.
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  509.  @Leszek.Rzepecki  A lot of SNP voters and Yes and Scottish Remain voters done so in the belief an independent Scotland would be in the EU with the rest of the UK, that Scotland would introduce the euro into the UK and all would be good for those that hate the English. Things have changed. Also, many Scots that voted Yes then voted Leave because they hate anyone telling them what to do. The desire to be in the EU is nowhere near as strong as the SNP claim - Tory voters were voting Remain and many people were simply voting against change -'project fear' was the UK's biggest ever propaganda exercise - and there's plenty more where that came from.. Scots would not be so brave to vote for independence 'if' an indy2 was to happen.
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  510.  @Leszek.Rzepecki  'scexit' - is that the planned new currency? There's been a referendum and there's no need for any more. It's disrespecting democracy and disrespecting the actual winning majority for a minority to keep asking for more. If it goes to the courts SNP will argue Brexit represents a material change in circumstances. I'm sure the UK government lawyers will conduct a survey to see if Scots really do want to be in the EU after Brexit.
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  511.  @Leszek.Rzepecki  Somehow - I think if Great Britain's demise was imminent, I think I might of heard some concerns from the 60 million Brits that don't want it to happen. Indy2 will be declared illegal and that will be the end of the matter. Great Britain is a country as established by Act of Union in the Scottish parliament and the subsequent three centuries of being a de facto country and of course the 2014 referendum.
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  512. Something to think about: The six counties of Northern Ireland being part of the United Kingdom for more than two hundred years. That's longer than thirty three States have been part of the United States of America.
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  513. "This wasn't a privileges committee, it was an unjust, petty, vengeful, blatant, political stitch-up." (Narinder Kaur)
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  514. Remainers before Brexit referendum: 'UK stocks will collapse' 'each family £4500 per-year worse off' 'UK economy will break' 'recession' 'emergency budget' house price fall' 'no food' 'world war three' 'high unemployment' 'no medicines' 'no air travel'...... Remoaners six months after Brexit on family having potatoes and beef instead of pasta and beef for dinner: 'We told you so - but would you listen?'
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  515. Most of all it takes UK politicians who want the UK to re-join the EU to first gain power and then persuade the UK electorate to vote in a referendum to re-join the EU. Why on earth would 51% of the UK electorate vote for that?
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  516. If any future UK government initiates policy seen to be against the decision taken by the UK electorate in 2016, then a petition would be raised to prevent the UK government proceeding without the direct consent of the UK people. This would have to be discussed in parliament and would be highly embarrassing for any MPs seeking to fool/bypass the UK people.
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  517. Remain votes were 10% pro-EU political activist, 50% following Tory/Labour/UK Gov guidance, 20% wanting to travel/work/retire more easily in the EU and 20% suffering from Project Fear. So 'Stay out' now has at least 70% of the 2016 Remain vote.
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  518. Biden looks like he needs a potty nurse.
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  519. 'Brexit' means the act of UK leaving the EU not the UK not being in the EU. The UK is seen as an independent country and the UK's membership of the EU as history. Ordinary people are not very interested in current affairs - they don't want to hear about things that happened years ago.
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  520. One thing we did gain from Brexit is we are no longer members of the European Union, because this is what the referendum result asked for. We gave the EEC/EU more than four decades of alternative opportunities and hundreds of billions of UK pounds, just to find out we were not very keen on being in. So, it's only reasonable that, we give 'being out' a few decades to see if this way suits us better.
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  521. Anyone see the 'SOO' (Shuffle of the Old and Odd)? The true picture of Remoanerism...
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  522. Listening to Phil it's clear he's been completely brainwashed by the EU... His 'politics' reminds me of my grandkids talking about superheroes.
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  523. The BBC has no business bigging up the European Union any more than it has bigging up the Russian Federation.
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  524. The Reform Party will be standing in every GB seat - though, at this point it's uncertain as to how many current Tory MPs will be standing in their present constituency as Reform candidates. 'You're going to lose you job' is a powerful incentive and then there's 'the policies' issue to contend with. Reform UK will be in a position no UK political party has ever been in before, as it will be able to say to half of the electorate 'You voted for Brexit and it's only been half-done' and to the other half 'The country voted for Brexit and it's only been half-done' Great! If fptp gives Labour/SNP/Lib Dems all the seats (it's entirely possible), as this will bring to the fore the lack of democratic representation; likely kick-off riots and inevitably result in immediate electoral reform and another general election.
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  525. It seems unlikely the Conservative Party will go into the next GE in its present form. I remember my Dad telling me in the 1980s that, 'Europe' would end up destroying the Conservative Party. I can see a huge breakaway of Conservative members, Councillors, MPs moving to Reform and putting a 'Let's do Brexit properly' proposition to the UK people.
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  526.  @abbofun9022  Not guessing anything - Brexit is a huge success in the UK - a few tiny issues with EU exports - not even making the UK news. Any UK business will be 100% compensated - so the only losers are EU citizens with not enough fish. UK people are getting on with it as they always do.
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  527. Yes, those Labour MPs whose secret purpose is to keep the privatised utilities in the hands of the wealthy minority can breathe easier now.
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  528.  @heliotropezzz333 Not everyone has the ability to move abroad for work and it seems we prefer Austrailia. It's not the responsibility of the UK to provide jobs and homes for go-getters in 27 other countries. People do not have the same value as workers - not everyone is young and strong and some need a helping hand. Those who are disadvantaged are forced to compete. There would have been plenty of jobs in the UK had EU citizens not had unrestricted access to the UK job market.
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  529.  @joepublic5119  The advantage of Brexit is that UK politicians now work for UK voters - they have been put in their place. We didn't pay them to 'do Europe'. Only 35% participated in the 2014 UK/EU elections and two years later half of them voted for Brexit...
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  530.  @heliotropezzz333  I don't think you understand how it works. Imagine a greengrocer putting more fresh apples on the shelf than were being sold. The customers would select the freshest apples with no spots or bruises and the apples not sold would become less likely to be sold. This is what happens to people in society when there is an anomalous supply of very employable workers. As for Australia, I have been a few times and the standard of living is way better than any of the EU countries I have been to.
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  531.  @koolaak2926  The UK did not join the EU in the 70s because the EU was not formed until 1992. People in the UK never voted for that - you lot say 'old fashioned people voted for Brexit' - well how many more were there in 1992 not allowed to vote on the future of their country?
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  532.  @heliotropezzz333 The spotted apples in my analogy are the over 40s, the people with physical and mental health conditions, the people who are not the brightest.... These people get left out when employers can select from an endless supply of go-getters. As for Austrailia - things are cheap, wages are high and jobs are easy to get.
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  533. @channeleightyeight088 You seem very misinformed - the people of the UK never wanted to be in the EU - it was just the politicians. Those politicians have now been put in their place and will be replaced with those with a more representative vision. 'UK EU' is finished.
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  534. @channeleightyeight088 The English do not 'hate' anyone - that's a word/emotion that comes from feeling inferior.
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  535. @channeleightyeight088 English is the most spoken language in the world and football, cricket, rugby are very popular too - that's a lot of 'dislike'...
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  536.  @koolaak2926  The Heath government was elected on a manifesto commitment not to join ("negotiate no more no less"). So, we did not vote to join.
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  537.  @heliotropezzz333  I will try to explain a different way. Imagine ability to get a job was scored 1-10 and everybody wore their number on a badge. Imagine employers prefer to give jobs to high score people. Imagine economic migrants are always high scorers '7s 8s 10s'. Now imagine that your number is 3. Here's an up-to-date fact about Australia: Sales tax (VAT) is 10% - in the UK it's 20%. Here's another up-to-date fact about Austrailia: 3 hours minimum wage after deductions wage fills your tank with petrol - in the UK 10 hours minimum wage after deductions fills your tank with petrol.
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  538.  @koolaak2926  "Our sole commitment is to negotiate; no more, no less" (Conservative Party Manifesto 1970) ... That government joined the UK to the EEC which constitutes 'more' than 'negotiation'.
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  539.  @heliotropezzz333  I'll try to explain it another way: Imagine a man who works in IT and is finding it difficult to get work for which he is qualified because of his age (in his 50s). When he was young he had a high number and now because he is older he has a low number. The employers are choosing people with high numbers making it difficult for him to find work.
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  540.  @heliotropezzz333  Let me help you remember - you defeated your own argument.
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  541.  @heliotropezzz333  The thing with remoaners is they just will not accept they have lost the debate. We live in a democracy and the minority with big ideas about how the majority will live have been put in their place. All the shouting the loudest and subterfuge has achieved nothing.
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  542.  @koolaak2926  Unlike Remoaners - I do not claim to be able to see the future. The advantage of Brexit is, UK politicians will have to get on with what we pay them to do and forget any stupid ideas about 'Europe'.
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  543.  @peterebel7899  Yes, EU membership/free movement has resulted in around 3 million people coming from the EU27 to the UK. Because of wage, living and currency differences, these workers have tended to offer their labour for less wage and this abundance of available cheap labour has enabled UK employers to pay less. Economic migrants are by nature very good workers, young and strong - their country's finest. They are wanted by UK employers and are successful in getting UK jobs. The upshot is UK nationals that are not so young/strong find it difficult to compete and are forced out of work. These factors over time create a low wage society. The double whammy comes because economic migrants also want houses to live in and this puts extra demand on the UK housing market causing the cost of housing to rise against falling incomes. Hey Presto! Now you have 'low wade/high rent' poverty for the UK working class and EU27 workers converting pounds to euros and paying cash for houses in Poland.
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  544.  @peterebel7899  So, are you saying having 3 million extra people bidding for jobs and housing makes it easier to get a well-paid job and easier to get a low-rent home?
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  545.  @koolaak2926  I think immigration is good for the UK, but it must not result in UK nationals being pushed out of jobs. The UK will now have a system that does not give privilege to EU27 countries.
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  546.  @koolaak2926  I didn't say that - you said I said that - then claimed I was wrong - it's called 'strawman argument'.
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  547.  @koolaak2926  I said this: "The advantage of Brexit is, UK politicians will have to get on with what we pay them to do and forget any stupid ideas about 'Europe'." UK politicians will be tasked with making the UK as good as the electorate expects it to be or they will be voted out - they must put the UK first or get replaced with someone who will.
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  548.  @koolaak2926  We can still bring people in from the EU to do work we don't want to do - immigration is not stopping because of Brexit.
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  549. The chances of the UK re-joining the EU are zero. Most people are already more concerned about a virus and grateful for the extra money Brexit has allowed for the NHS. Your complex arguments are wasted on those that will not change their minds.
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  550. LOL! These are not real members with real power like the Labour Party membership that voted against the Labour Party policy to freeze old Brexit voters to death...
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  551. Why should someone with a disposable income of say £30k a year get 100% free medical treatment when the country is borrowing billions to get by? Better off people are also more able to access treatments ahead of unskilled workers. In Australia people who can afford it contribute to their health costs - the care is a much better standard than UK. This idea we have unrestricted immigration and provide a free health service, is very clever until you have to find the money to pay for it.
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  552.  @rogerphelps9939  Are you being serious? What's your campaign message - 'Let's give up independence'? Lol!
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  553.  @rogerphelps9939  OK! So, make that a bus sized catchy slogan: 'Let's share sovereignty, give up the pound and give the EU thirty billion euros each year' Good luck with that!
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  554. Strange how people see things. I read the title of this video as: 'Oh Dear, Phil Still Doesn't Get Brexit Is Real, Does He?' Imagine poor Mrs Phil watching The Chase with Phil and then having to endure days of explanation about how Phil knew the answer to every question and how show got it wrong. Poor Mrs Phil.
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  555.  @roisinmalone3015  Because the only UK people doing any blaming are a minority of people that voted against Brexit and don't like the only significant consequence which is the UK not being in the EU. The rest of the UK population is either loving Brexit or accepting reality or couldn't care either way. Fintan O'Toole had been believing the EU was the road to a defacto reunification of Ireland. Now poor Fintan has to deal with the reality the EU will make the divide greater than it was when he was young and all of Ireland used the same currency.
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  556.  @roisinmalone3015  Those Brexit voters complaining about the UK/EU trade agreement in relation to NI are not complaining about Brexit. If you were released from prison with a tag you might complain about the tag, but you wouldn't want to go back to prison. The Tories were divided on the EU and the old lot negotiated the terms for Brexit. The Tories are no longer divided and new lot will be in power for at least a decade and they will sort it out.
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  557.  @jjtighe8628  Why don't you tell me what I have said that you think is not fact?
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  558.  @EDD-xr4ub  Obviously prisoners agree to a having tag to get out of prison then try to get the tag removed. If we are talking about agreements the UK has signed with the EU - getting out of the EU was a political quagmire and things were agreed that had to be agreed to get free. Now the UK is free with a strong Brexit government that should be in power for at least 10 years - the UK will gradually get the irreversible hard Brexit it wants.
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  559.  @EDD-xr4ub  Any contract is only as good as its enforceability. It's obvious the pro-Brexit side of the Tory Party had no intention of sticking to any policy made by the pro-EU side of the Tory Party and agreed by a pro-EU UK parliament - they did not like. UK politics is about Commons majority - a government with a big majority always gets what it wants.
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  560.  @EDD-xr4ub  What I am saying is the pro-Brexit side of the Tory Party did not have power when negotiations were made. When it came to the UK actually leaving the EU - the attitude was to get it done (over the line) and then gradually make changes from a stronger place. Just saying this is what's happening.
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  561. Of course Phil thinks he can win an argument with Brexiteers - this is because Phil's idea of an argument is Phil asking and Phil answering and Phil talking and talking and talking....
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  562.  @peterebel7899  People voted for Nigel Farage - so perhaps the European Parliament should not force itself on people that don't want it.
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  563.  @tomvanaarle2622  That's not really true. When the UK joined in 1973 it was without referendum and the UK parliament was closely divided. There were for and against within both the Labour and Conservative parties. At the 1975 referendum the EEC was seen as little more than a trading arrangement between 9 countries. The Labour Party was opposed to EEC membership at the 1983 general election when it proposed immediate Brexit.
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  564.  @dickhelling3529  How can pro-indy say how anything will work when they cannot speak for the other side? It is the UK government that will dictate how things will be in relation to 'trade with the UK' 'Scottish citizens entering the UK' 'Who gets to use GBP'. Pro-indy are in no position to demand/state anything and the EU will have to keep its nose out or be guilty of interfering in the internal political affairs of a non-EU country.
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  565.  @ab-ym3bf  Oh, I see, I think I understand what you mean. You are saying that, if a party of 'the left' doesn't win enough seats to govern, then it will make a pact with a party of 'the right' to form a 'left-right' coalition government... Because, if you are not saying this - you have not made any point to confute my comment.
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  566. Labour should never have attempted to overturn the referendum. The people had accepted the result, but fools like Benn began turning the party against the people to propitiate their own out-of-touch egos. In truth, the majority of MPs and Lords were just as absurd, but the spectacle of the Labour Party with its face set against the people was nothing short of perverse. It caused millions of life-long Labour voters to see Eton educated toffs as Webley wielding subalterns leading the Pals over the top. Those that tried to hand the UK to foreigners had had time, power and money, but the people had never wanted to be anything other than sovereign and British. This could have been a Labour Brexit with the real opportunities that exist and the Tories in tatters.
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  567. UK voters will not care about a 'no-deal Brexit' after this crisis 'Project Fear' will be as scary as no lemons on pancake day. The people of the UK expect the UK government to use its resources on the NHS and the people of the UK; not moving the EU parliament to and fro every month.
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  568. I suppose the apparent average age being around 60 contributed to the lack of fervour.
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  569.  @stephengraham1153  The country made a democratic decision and is getting on with it - there's no turning back.
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  570.  @stephengraham1153  We Brits are famous for that... Out of interest - where are you thinking about going?
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  571. If they couldn't get it passed the UK public in 2016 - they could never win re-join referendum and politicians cannot attempt the 'back-door-bit-by-bit' trick again - we're just left with the fruitcakes and loonies who cannot accept reality.
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  572. You Remoaners must have different kids. In my Brexiteer family whenever we tried the 'we'll leave you here' trick the kids said: 'OK'...
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  573. We need to set up a new political party with genuine pledges to the UK people: 1, The UK will become part of the united states of Europe. 2, The UK will become part of an EU army. 3, The UK will adopt the euro. 4, The UK will allow anyone from Europe to live and work in the UK. 5, The UK will have a new principal flag. 6, The UK will have 10% say in a controlling EU parliament. 7, The UK will pay £350 million each week to the EU. 8, The UK will allow the EU to decide UK trade policy. 9, The UK will be ruled by an unelected EU executive. 10, The UK allow anyone from Europe to use the NHS and claim UK benefits. We should call our new party 'The United Kingdom In Party'.
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  574. Idea for the slogan on the re-join bus Join the EU for more Tomatoes Everybody will be like WTF do we need more tomatoes for? but that won't matter, because there's not going to be a re-join referendum...
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  575.  @EllieD.Violet  I didn't say everyone bought 'only' British farm produce.
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  576.  @MrsGardiner Where did I say I'm against importing meat?
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  577. Comparing the current crisis to WW1 is very silly. UK WW1 deaths and serious life changing injuries numbered around two million of a UK population half it is today. These were mostly young men at a time when jobs were more physical and men were breadwinners. Today's crisis may cause twenty thousand deaths. This would be less than one person in each three thousand. The majority of these deaths will be older retired people. Of course this is serious in personal terms, but it's not going have a similar impact on society as WW1 and to suggest it could is just plain silly.
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  578. So glad we left - the UK is already a much better place. The best thing is 're-joining' will not even be a manifesto topic for debate.
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  579.  @patarciepaul UK MPs have given up on undemocratic ideas about a federal Europe and are tasked only with making the UK the best it can be.
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  580. Remain propaganda Leave voters voted for different things (they didn’t they all voted Leave). Anyone wanting a controlled UK immigration policy is racist. The EU has always funded the UK (the UK has always funded the EU). Voting Leave condones the murder of Jo Cox MP. Leave voters did not know Southern Ireland was not a part of the UK. UK unemployed are either too lazy or too greedy to work as fruit pickers. The UK cannot use money the UK does not give to the EU. The EU has prevented war in Europe (there has been war in Europe). There are no plans for an EU army (there are plans for an EU army). There are no plans for Turkey to join EU (there are plans for Turkey to join EU) EU is good for UK environment (12 UK wild mammals in threat of extinction). EU is democratic (EU leaders are not voted for by EU citizens). The Leave votes of older people don't matter, because they will die sooner. Remain votes by old people are valid as life experience brings wisdom. Thinking UK electorate should decide all UK law is xenophobia. All UK citizens that did vote wanted the UK to remain in the EU. Not accepting a democratic result is ‘democracy in action’. Only economic forecasts made by anti-Brexit economists are accurate. Any professional person who supports Brexit cannot be an‘expert’. ‘No one voted to be poorer’ means everyone voted to stay in the EU. All Remain voters are economic experts that can forecast decades into the future. ‘People’ want a second vote because there must have been a mistake as ‘people’ are the majority. ‘Democracy’ is to keep on having referendums until the unelected EU Commission gets its way.
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  581. ​ @skyblazeeterno  When the UK electorate voted in the 2016 UK/EU referendum - the question on the ballot paper was not: 'Do you think the future UK economy will be better or worse over the next 20 years if the UK leaves the EU?'..... For some reason you act as though this was the question.... You appear to be living in a 'make-it-up-as-you-go-along-world'?
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  582. Have you ever been to the EU? There are roads barely wide enough for a single small car with the door mirrors turned in. People talk about 'EU health and safety' but I have visited many countries in the EU where even basic safety conditions like helmets on motorcycles are not enforced.
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  583.  @OscarSommerbo  No one is allowed to drive a motor vehicle on UK roads without training and qualification. In the UK we don't need other countries telling us what is safe - particularly when those counties are not as safe. You will see from the actual statistics that the UK probably has the safest roads in Europe. "Road deaths per million inhabitants - Preliminary country by country statistics for 2015: Belgium 77 Bulgaria 105 Czech Republic 77 Denmark 46 Germany 45 Estonia 59 Ireland 47 Greece 112 Spain 53 France 64 Croatia 99 Italy 70 Cyprus 73 Latvia 103 Lithuania 95 Luxembourg 64 Hungary 74 Malta 36 Netherlands 32 Austria 66 Poland 102 Portugal 80 Romania 117 Slovenia 67 Slovakia 65 Finland 51 Sweden 28 United Kingdom 30"
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  584. The UK citizens that wanted to live and work in the EU27 voted for Remain - the UK citizens that just want to hop on a plane for a break in the sun voted for Brexit. I don't see any problems there (covid aside) because every plane that flies into those holiday destinations if full of £s pounds and the locals don't want that to stop.
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  585.  @gravityskeptic8697  I think you are mistaken. The typical UK person has no real interest in 'Europe'. We relate more closely to Australia, USA, India, Canada, Africa, Hong Kong. We see Europe as a place of historical enemies we cannot converse with. And then there are two world wars that, we believe were started by 'Europe' and cost us severely. Please don't misunderstand, we do not dislike anyone in 'Europe' - we just understand that we are mostly despised for our nation's influence on the modern world and we just don't care. Put simply; we have other things we would rather do than pretend to be 'European' - whatever that is supposed to mean.
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  586. Most people see Elon as someone who should be listened to.
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  587.  @PFWoody488  I think most people see Elon as a person who can achieve things make money and career politicians are increasingly seen as people who live off and spend other people's money.
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  588.  @PFWoody488 Democracy allows for people to have opinions and share legal information and make legal donations to political parties. Elon Musk is not excluded from this, because some people disagree with his views.
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  589.  @maxwild1212  He can do what he wants - it appears he has built a personal fortune that would fund the NHS for several years - so he must have some business acumen.
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  590.  @maxwild1212  Did Starmer, Reeves and Rayner actually create any wealth?
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  591.  @maxwild1212  I don't know the situation at X and I doubt that you do. It seems there is a msm smear campaign against X because people are allowed to express their opinions on X.
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  592.  @maxwild1212  There is an answer which is: No, Starmer, Reeves and Rayner have not created any wealth.
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  593.  @salzach353thomas8  In 2014, the UK establishment seen the UK future in the EU. The plan was all of Europe being regions within the EU using the euro. Had Scotland left the UK and adopted the euro it would have softened resistance to UK adopting euro. It's now 2021 and that establishment has been defeated - the future plan has changed. Scottish independence would now mean the end of Great Britain and foreign forces in charge of what had been in Great Britain for 300+ years. Do you really think the people of Great Britain (60m) are going to allow it to happen?
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  594. WTF is a chicken civ?
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  595. Just spent Christmas in Aus - had two beef 'blade' joints from Coles for Christmas dinner - I doubt there's a more tasty succulent beef.
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  596. If you don't like democracy - why don't you go live in the EU?
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  597.  @simmybear31  You have to accept not everyone is as obsessed as you are. You belong to a group of people called 'remoaners' that are around 10% of the nation. The reality is there is around 10% active rejoiners and around 20% active Brexiteers and around 70% that couldn't care less about the EU. The advantage your side has is more people in positions of power. However, the obstacle they must overcome is persuading 60% of the 70% to vote to join the EU - and unfortunately (for your side) that looks like an impossible task.
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  598.  @simmybear31  So, you can choose to live in any EU27 country and you have chosen to live in the UK - you have voted with your feet for the UK. I seem to recall 7 million EU27 nationals have applied to stay in the UK. With evidence like this, there's clearly no need to waste public money on an ideological inquiry.
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  599.  @NeilCWCampbell  That is not true - it's possible for UK citizens to apply to live in any EU country.
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  600.  @NeilCWCampbell  This is the problem with remoaners - relentless internet propaganda based on false statements. This is the good thing about leaving the EU and living in a democratic UK. Any referendum will force both sides to make true statements and argue the facts - then the people will decide.
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  601.  @simmybear31  Why do you assume people who have died since 2016 all voted to leave the EU? Do you think somehow Paddy Ashdown and Shirley Williams voted for Brexit? Why do you assume all new voters will vote to join the EU or even vote at all, if there ever is a referendum? This is absurd fantasy think generated from your own delusional bubble mindset. Perhaps, you are arguing that in 2016, older people were more inclined to be patriotic and have faith in the UK's ability to succeed, because they could remember a time before the UK's EEC/EU membership. If you are right about this, it just proves the UK would not have voted to join the EU in 1993, had its people been allowed a vote.
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  602. Yep - giving our country away without the consent of the people was treason...
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  603. I expect Trump and Farage are working on ways to steer Keir in the correct direction...
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  604. How many people would have voted for the Referendum Party and UKIP if Westminster was PR? It's likely that PR would have made Brexit happen a long time ago.
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  605.  @ab-ym3bf  I was thinking more of specific policy. For years those in control of the main parties were able to pursue a pro-EU course. Had there been a PR system a Brexit left party and a Brexit right party would have exerted pressure on the main parties. A voter wanting a left government and Brexit could have voted for a party safe in the knowledge its MPs would support Labour MPs and likewise a voter wanting a right government. The same kind of pressure would have been exerted on Blair to re-nationalise as voters could have voted for a left party pushing for this creating a real problem for the Labour leadership. The big problem with FPTP is that voters are unwilling to waste their vote and as a result politicians have too much say. This is why we get impositions like EU membership, mass immigration, mass unemployment, privatisation of pubic sector... Things the majority of voters never wanted
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  606. Big prize for anyone who takes a photo of the national rejoin march with more than fifty people in it - photoshop not permitted.
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  607. So, a guy working with machinery is a "knob head" - doesn't he know a 'socialist' is trying to make propaganda?
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  608.  @PaulSmith-pf2uq  History shows the English always seem to do OK. It is countries like Germany that have caused ruination and misery to themselves and others. I'm sure the English will manage Brexit just fine.
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  609.  @PaulSmith-pf2uq  Can I name ten instead? Newton’s Laws. The Programmable Computer. Smallpox Vaccination. The Electric Motor. Television. World Wide Web. The Telephone. Photography. Jet Engine. Railway Steam Locomotive.
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  610.  @PaulSmith-pf2uq  I just quoted what was on the internet about British inventions. The idea the British are guilty of atrocity is simply not realistic. Why do countries such as India love to play cricket? Why do statues of British Empire figures still stand in India? Why did India raise the biggest volunteer army to fight under British command? The British have a world-wide reputation for fair treatment. Countries of the British Empire still retain links with Britain today - would this be the case if there was bad-feeling?
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  611.  @PaulSmith-pf2uq  Both my grandfathers were British soldiers in India in the 1920s, each serving 5 years there without home leave. So, I heard many stories about India from my parents. Of course empires are resisted and blood is shed; this has been the way of mankind since the beginning of civilisation. The practice of ruling other countries gradually became unacceptable and the British Empire was the last of the great empires.
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  612. Stupid bloody war never should have started. Zelensky should have held independence referendums in the disputed regions.
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  613. It's not like Boris is the only party leader blamed for Brexit - remember anti-EU Jeremy Corbyn failed to persuade the Labour vote. Why are they just going after Boris? Oh yeah! I forgot - Jeremy is being hounded out of UK politics too...
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  614. What is the difference between the political movement to re-join the UK to the EU and Lord Lucan? Lord Lucan is more conspicuous.
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  615. Yep. Who would have thought all the political triumphalism of the UK's EU membership would end up as a YouTube channel run by a chap called Phil?
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  616.  @smoosview6103  Those facts cannot be true because the experts and clever people said Brexit would be a disaster.
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  617.  @smoosview6103  At least we have solidarity from French fishermen - they are burning tyres and blocking ports in protest at UK fishermen getting such a bad deal.
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  618. That's fascinating. I find the thing about re-joiners and train-spotters and anoraks in general, is they never seem able to tell when normal people are not interested...
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  619. Slight problem you've not thought about. To join the UK to the EU a UK government would have to put the idea to the UK people as being something the UK should do - what reason would any UK government have for doing this?
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  620.  @roseanne9986  You (and others) use the term 'hard border' but no one else is talking about anything that even resembles a typical national border. The alternative plan to the current situation involves a border that people can pass freely without checks and traded goods would be subject to random checks away from the border. So, this 'hard border' you keep mentioning would in reality be hardly noticeable. The GFA does accept Sothern Ireland and Northern Ireland are separate democratic countries and that, Northern Ireland is part of the democratic UK. The GFA also accepts there is a land border between Southern Ireland and Northern Ireland. So, objecting to the border being democratically functional - is contrary to the GFA.
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  621.  @roseanne9986  Sorry to disappoint you, but there is a border. If you were happy with the way things were before Brexit then you were happy with a divided island of Ireland.
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  622.  @roseanne9986  I think I've covered that...
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  623.  @roseanne9986  It doesn't matter whether I think there should be a land border between ROI/EU and NI/UK - the fact is that border exists and has done so since 1921. The border is patrolled both by the ROI/EU and NI/UK. It is a very relaxed border because of the 'Common Travel Area' agreement and both countries membership of the EEC/EU and since Brexit the 'Northern Ireland Protocol' agreement. There is no question that, ROI/EU and NI/UK are separate countries with a shared land border.
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  624. @Brexitisfor dummies If there's problems buying EU produced food the UK will buy from other countries and produce more in the UK. EU producers lose - not UK.
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  625. Why has the 2024 London 'national rejoin march' been cancelled - anything to do with the fact only around 1000 people (mostly geriatric hippies) appeared at last year's event? Must be better to pretend 'Bregret' than to actually demonstrate it.
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  626. I seem to remember Remain votes didn't count for anything...
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  627.  @peterebel7899 Is the solution for the UK to join the EU, because farmers in the EU never protest?
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  628.  @peterebel7899 Peter, the truth is the UK people do not want to join again. The prospect of any political campaign persuading a majority of UK voters to vote to give up UK independence is south of 'just not going to happen'. The pro-EU side which comprises about 10% of UK voters is aware of this, so has adopted the strategy of blaming any unpopular thing on Brexit and claiming the UK people regret Brexit that, old dying people voted for Brexit and the future generation of young people want to rejoin the EU. The reality is only around two thousand old people attended the London 2023 National Rejoin March and the 2024 event has been cancelled, because the UK people are not interested in the EU. The plan is to use this false propagandised narrative to avoid a referendum and hold on to the 2016 48% (which they know is the closest they will ever get to mandate) to sneak their way to the EU's back door when UK voters are not watching.
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  629. @ss ss more relevance than the decision to join UK to EU..
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  630.  @nigelsynnott7344  In order to be elected to parliament and become a 'member of parliament' (MP), a candidate must gain more votes than the other candidates. It's not everyone's idea of the best democratic system, but other systems do have shortcomings too. There was a recent referendum which offered the UK electorate a different system, but the electorate voted by majority to retain the current system. Really though, I was responding to a comment about the 2016 UK/EU referendum. In the end, 'democracy' in any form is not perfect - it just appears to be the fairest way to run a country.
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  631.  @nigelsynnott7344  Much of what you say has merit. Somehow, I can't imagine JRM wanting a referendum on the nationalisation of electricity, water, gas, public transport and Royal Mail. And PR would allow people to vote for a party proposing this, to be secure in the knowledge their votes would not be wasted, not help the Tories and would apply pressure to Labour to change its policy. On the other hand, PR would have resulted in a hundred UKIP MPs on the FPTP votes and that's not taking into account that, voters would have not worried about wasting their vote/helping a party they did not want to succeed. It's very possible that PR would have delivered Brexit 30 years ago.
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  632.  @nigelsynnott7344  Like I said, it most likely would have brought Brexit sooner - those UKIP MPs would have applied pressure on the Conservative Party - many top Conservatives would have joined UKIP with a deal for a seat. It was Conservative MPs defecting to UKIP (under FPTP) that, forced Cameron to promise his anti-EU faction a referendum in the 2015 manifesto. Cameron believed a likely second Lib Dem coalition would let him off this promise. As they say: 'The rest is history'. It doesn't matter what any individual thinks about the why other people voted the way they did - all that matters is the question on the ballot paper and the result.
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  633.  @nigelsynnott7344  But, looking at the 2014 UK/EU election we see there was a 35.6% turnout and as we know, two years later +50% voted to leave the EU. These are very large 'samples' and we can extrapolate from them that around 17% of the electorate had positively participated in the EU political project. One might conclude, it was only the Eurobelievers who were that bothered about it.
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  634. In 2016, the UK was £2 trillion in debt and was borrowing £100 billion each year to pay for NHS and other government spending - so really, any UK money (less than the NHS budget) not paid to the EU would in real terms be going straight to the NHS. Think of it this way, imagine you and your partner have a £30k annual income and a £10k credit card debt, you spend £150 each week on groceries and among your other outgoings you pay £10 each week for gym membership. Unfortunately, you calculate your total outgoings in a year is greater than your annual income - you need to add to your credit card debt to get by. Now you have a brainwave - you say to your partner: 'Let's cancel our gym memberships and spend the £10 saving on our groceries each week instead' The upshot here, is you have a limit on your annual spending and debt to repay, so you have prioritised your spending and you are now giving your grocery budget an extra £10 each week EVEN if you wanted to limit your grocery spending to less than £150 each week.
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  635.  @alba9507  If it was not for the Leave votes from Scotland and Northern Ireland Remain would have won the referendum...
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  636.  @alba9507  When was this? There has never been a vote in Scotland about Scotland's membership of the EU - because Scotland has never been a member of the EU.
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  637.  @alba9507  That vote was about whether the UK should leave the EU. You appear to be arguing the vote in Scotland was about Scotland should stay in the EU if the rest of the UK leaves That was not the question - no such vote has taken place.
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  638.  @marcusbiggestfan6998  Good! If we give them another referendum - we'll tell them leaving the UK will mean they will have to live on the moon.
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  639.  @Glasgow_kiss  Sounds more likely than Scottish people ever getting independence from England on Earth...
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  640. When are the remoaners going to get on a bus and drive it off a cliff - like they promised?
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  641. How do I keep getting in the weird part of YouTube?
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  642. Big mistake using the economy because no one has noticed any difference - now you have to sell the political ideology - good luck with that...
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  643.  @peterspowage5752  So, basically you agree that no one has noticed any difference - the reasons are immaterial and calling people stupid or a 'good-old' remoaner analogy comparing Brexit to something really scary will not work. The federal Europe project has really been an imposition on the UK people by a tiny minority of people in power. The UK was joined without a referendum and that minority opposed the 75 referendum and the 2016 referendum. The true 'idea' was never sold to the UK people - it was always 'just' about trade and fear of economic ruin. That worked well and came so close to succeeding - and why wouldn't it? The people devising and implementing that strategy were nobody's fools. The thing is a different bunch of people gained power in the UK and Brexit happened. The UK is a wealthy country with the oldest currency in the world - it's not likely to suffer economic catastrophe. Most people will carry on as usual and be unaware of trade deals or economic anything. The problem that pro-EU minority has is the old 'Heath' trick of winning a UK general election and joining the EU will not happen - there would have to be a referendum. Let's say 20% are very for 're-join' and 20% are very against 're-join'. The pro-EU minority would need to persuade more than half of the other 60%. Because people (as you agree) are for whatever reasons not noticing any UK economic problems - The case for a 'federal Europe' would have to be made. like I said: 'Good luck with that'.
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  644.  @peterspowage5752  You really need to accept it's over. You were/are not wrong (or right) you were just defeated by democracy. I never wanted to be in the EU - so I learned to view democracy from the perspective of a spectator. A single vote isn't very much really. The EU is there - it exists - you could move there. If you had gotten your way the independent land I was born in and wanted to live in again, would not exist.
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  645.  @peterspowage5752  Wow! You really have got it bad. There is nothing 'ignorant' about not wanting the UK to be in the EU. You do not have the final say about what is right or wrong for the UK as a country to do. People like Enoch Powell and Tony Benn were far more knowledgeable than you and they both wanted the UK to be an independent country. The 2016 referendum was fair - everybody had a chance to promote arguments and to challenge arguments. The people listened and voted and Leave won. You appear to be arguing that, the people should not be allowed to vote, or that people you get to identify as being less intelligent than you on the basis they do not agree with you should not be allowed to vote. That sort of thinking makes you a fascist.
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  646.  @peterebel7899  Don't concern yourself Peter - the UK will not be asking to re-join. Newsflash: It was the UK that dumped the EU. You saying the EU will not take the UK back is just silly.
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  647.  @peterebel7899  How is an EU country going veto an application that will never be made? The UK is hundreds of years older than the EU and the £ is the oldest currency on the planet - the UK will stay together - the EU has already started to break having just lost 66 million citizens. What will the EU do if the UK government puts Nicola Sturgeon in prison just like EU Spain did to the Catalonian seditionists?
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  648.  @peterspowage5752  I think we are getting muddled. The point I was making is there is plenty of EU territory for people to live in. Any person wishing to be an EU citizen, can live the 'EU dream' in the EU. The Brexit debate was a binary choice between the UK being a part of the EU or the UK being an independent sovereign country, as it was when I was born in 1963. The UK has returned to that 1963 independent sovereign position, the Beatles are not number one, the people do not own the trains, but UK parliament is the same legislative power. That is what I wanted and what I voted for. Had Remain won, I would not have been able to live in the independent and sovereign country of my birth. As for lies in the referendum, I don't believe Leave made any false statements. I am happy to be proved wrong.
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  649.  @peterspowage5752  If you have evidence of a false statement made by the Leave campaign then cite the statement verbatim and explain with supporting evidence why you believe the statement is false. What laws the EU did or did not make is immaterial - the fact remains the UK had 10% of the EU vote and the UK people did not have democratic control of their lives.
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  650. I'll ask some straightforward questions: In the weeks leading up to the EU referendum was Peter Spowage in favour of the UK eventually adopting the euro? Was Lord Adonis in favour of the UK eventually adopting the euro? Was John Major in favour of the UK eventually adopting the euro? Was Richard Branson in favour of the UK eventually adopting the euro? Was Tony Blair in favour of the UK eventually adopting the euro? Was Ken Clarke in favour of the UK eventually adopting the euro? The reason I ask is the Remain supporting government leaflet that cost the voters £10 million over and above the fair spending limit for each campaign stated: "We will not join the euro"... Was that a lie?
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  651.  @peterspowage5752  There were two possible political outcomes. A future in the EU that created the euro currency and a stated policy that, EU members should use the euro. And a UK outside of the EU not using the euro currency. I think it is clear those people most politically active in achieving the first outcome wanted the UK to convert to the euro. I think it is clear those people most politically active in achieving the first outcome were in control of the £10 million government leaflet. I think it is clear those people lied to the UK people about their true intention in relation to future of the UK pound. "It’s a big decision. One that will affect you, your family and your children for decades to come. The UK has secured a special status in a reformed EU: • we will not join the euro"
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  652.  @peterspowage5752  I provided you with a quote from the government leaflet: It’s a big decision. "One that will affect you, your family and your children for decades to come"
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  653.  @peterspowage5752  Before the UK entered the EU a single unskilled wage could keep a family and buy a house. After years of 'The Federal Europe Project' two semi-skilled wages cannot buy a home and rely on tax Credits to feed and clothe their family. Why would people vote for a life that's been getting harder by the year?
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  654.  @peterspowage5752  Life in the UK 1993-2019 was life in the EU, if the EU had no effect then surely there was no point being a member. You shouldn't conflate the policies of the Conservative Party with the UK being an independent country. The pro-EU media have pointed to the right of the Tory Party to make Brexit unpopular. However, many on the left have been campaigning to leave the EU for years. Now the UK has left the EU the Labour Party can formulate a winning strategy and be in government for 45 of the next 50 years.
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  655.  @peterspowage5752  We have barely left the EU and we have had the worst virus crisis in living memory. Nit-picking at every problem arising in transitioning out of the EU is hardly intelligent criticism of Brexit. There were problems joining the EEC in 1973, such as butter quadrupling in price, but I don't remember Heath giving up on his dream of 'ever closer union'. Let's give it ten years and see what Brexit brings. Harold Wilson famously said 'a week is a long time in politics' - the decision of Leave voters for Brexit was based on "decades to come".
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  656.  @peterspowage5752  It's normal in a democracy for those wanting to win to say things will be better if they do win. The Remain side had very little to say about a positive future in the EU because they knew people in the UK were against federalism and against losing the pound. The Remain side put all its eggs in a basket of fear. Honestly, the only thing that would have made me vote Remain would be a convincing argument that young people wanted to be part of a federal Europe. That argument was not made and I took the view young people would be better off out of the EU.
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  657.  @peterspowage5752  Already the UK has outperformed the EU in covid vaccinations. While we were in the EU Nissan was considering relocating its Sunderland factory, now the UK is an independent country Nissan has decided to stay in the UK.
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  658.  @peterspowage5752  Well, at the end of the day, I'm very happy with Brexit. I think the UK is big enough for a democracy, because smaller democracies tend to produce more popular policy. The UK is a union (though, it might be argued successfully the UK is a country) and there are problems with people not feeling represented. A union of 28 counties with 550 million people speaking different languages was never going to be representative of the UK's character. I would like the UK to link up with Canada, Australia and New Zealand, as the people and culture in those countries is akin to the UK. I think CANZUK is the future for increased cultural, economic and military capability.
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  659.  @peterspowage5752  And that is your opinion. Unfortunately for you, your opinion about the future of our country is of no consequence. History will show the UK's membership of the Europe project to have been an imposition on the people of the UK. The people were lied to and when they discovered the truth they voted to be independent and sovereign at the first opportunity. "I am still convinced that the people of this country cannot be absorbed into a European state" (Enoch Powell on 1975 EEC referendum result)
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  660.  @peterspowage5752  I'm glad you provided me with a mutually acceptable description of what we can call 'a lie': "Breaking a promise is not a lie, but a promise you did not intend to keep or should have known you could not to keep, is." So, we can both agree the following statement made by then prime minister Edward Heath to the UK nation in a TV broadcast on joining the EEC in 1973 without a referendum or clear electoral mandate to do so, was in fact, a lie: "There are some in this country who fear that, in going into Europe, we shall in some way sacrifice independence and sovereignty. These fears, I need hardly say are, completely unjustified."
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  661.  @peterspowage5752  Well, I suppose you do make some reasonable points. A lot of my friends that voted for Brexit say they have learned more about the EU after the result than during the campaign. There was a definite sense of loss, a person could not help thinking about all those who had battled for years over this. How Shirley Williams must have felt when Tony Benn passed in 2014 (Googled that fact) and what she must have been thinking at her own end. Perhaps, if Remain had been less insulting to the British people and explained the true objective of the EU, more people might have been persuaded. But, it was clear they believed they were superior in intelligence to the UK people and thought they could frighten the nation into doing their will. Ah well, Good or bad, right or wrong, we're stuck with it now. That political dream has been properly crushed under foot. Time to accept that; 'we're all Brexiteers now'... Hey?
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  662. The most important thing about Brexit is the democratic decision of the people has been respected. The UK's political system is renowned throughout the world and it would have been very damaging to the concept of democratic rule, had the 2016 vote been disregarded. The activity of those openly opposing the vote on the basis people are too ignorant to make choices about their country's future, was despicable and no doubt led directly to similar behavior following the US presidential elections.
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  663. No one is pretending there is not a fanatical group of UK rejoiners. I estimate this to be around 10% of voters (3 million people). Obviously, 3 million people obsessively angry about Brexit are motivated to participate in an online poll.
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  664. They will just leave the country. Eleven thousand millionaires have taken their money from the UK since Labour came to power.
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  665. Lucky for me your vote counted for nothing... 'Juicy Falls' Remain vote = zilch'
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  666.  @vertigo4236  Actually, what you are referring to is not a border, it is a trade demarcation. No land borders in the UK have been altered by the EU. As for influence on the planet - there is no country that can claim greater impact on the modern world. Most of the world's top universities were founded by the British. The British Empire was the largest and most impactful empire in human existence. Because of the internet (invented by UK) the entire world will one day communicate with one language. There is no question that language will be English and the true English people will have won the race of nations.
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  667. The UK news media has finally got the 'Brexit is over' pill down. The UK joining the EU is simply not a serious political story to report. No doubt some fruitcakes will set up a 'grassroots' movement and share office facilities with the Flat Earth Society.
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  668. The Remainers understand full well what the referendum result means - it means the UK must leave the EU. There is only one way to stop this - reverse the 2016 decision. This is why leaving is being dragged out - to subject the British people to a propaganda campaign. The plan was/is to get opinion to 60% Remain and use this as justification for a second referendum. It hasn't worked and now they want even more time.
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  669. I'm in the EU now - the fruit and veg is not good. Two varieties of floury bad apples, bad plumbs, rotting onions, rubber carrots, floppy cucumbers, insect ridden tomatoes.... Rather than fantasising propaganda remoaners like Phil should come see how crap much of the EU actually is..
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  670. We need to set up a new political party with genuine pledges to the UK people: 1, The UK will become part of the united states of Europe. 2, The UK will become part of an EU army. 3, The UK will adopt the euro. 4, The UK will allow anyone from Europe to live and work in the UK. 5, The UK will have a new principal flag. 6, The UK will have 10% say in a controlling EU parliament. 7, The UK will pay £350 million each week to the EU. 8, The UK will allow the EU to decide UK trade policy. 9, The UK will be ruled by an unelected EU executive. 10, The UK allow anyone from Europe to use the NHS and claim UK benefits. We should call our new party 'The United Kingdom In Party'.
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  671. The entire UK rejoin movement consists of a handful of YouTube channels with less views than live nest box cams...
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  672. Remoaner hypocrisy is off-the-scale here. When remoaner Starmer was in charge of the of Crown Prosecutions Service, it was apparently not his responsibility when that office failed to prosecute the life-long child molester, Jimmy Savile. On the other hand, when the Brexit prime minister is busy running the country, he is somehow responsible for the shenanigans of remoaners ("bring your own booze") operating the offices of government...
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  673.  @timjackson8516  Dream on 'Braveheart' - Brexit has made the change much bigger and the bigger the change - the less people will want to vote for it.
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  674.  @timjackson8516  So, oppose on those issues - not 'birthday cake'.
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  675.  @timjackson8516  Thatcher probably was responsible for Savile's knighthood, as he was knighted just after she left office... What's your point?
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  676.  @CmdrMaxHeadroom  No, I am not at the bottom of any barrel, because I would have prosecuted Savile, on account there was a mountain of evidence proving he was a child sex offender.
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  677.  @errorswillmultiply1697  Firstly, if you seriously think that photo shows 'a party' - then all I can say is, you must have led a very sheltered life. Secondly, it appears BJ did not organise that 'socially distanced gathering of essential work associates with cheese and wine'. The event was organised by a person called, Martin Reynolds who is a privately educated, Cambridge University lawyer and top civil servant with years of experience taking the UK into a federal Europe. Thirdly, BJ is unlikely to be concerned the day-to-day affairs of offices employing hundreds of people, because as you would no doubt claim; he's otherwise engaged implementing policies that, your lot disapprove of.
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  678.  @moon_knight8578  I agree - and I'm made as Hell about it!
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  679.  @CmdrMaxHeadroom  No you are even bigger seriously this dense - get out of that!
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  680.  @errorswillmultiply1697  It's not unusual or illegal or prohibited by covid regulations to sit in at a gathering of essential work colleagues and drink a glass of wine. We have all seen the photo of remoaner Starmer at 'work' with beer in hand. Boris was running the country - what the f**k was 'essential' about whatever it was Starmer was pretending to do?
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  681.  @errorswillmultiply1697  What are you on about? Why can't you stick to the facts? I haven't said anything about 'angling'. Simple fact is: When Boris is in charge of something - he's responsible, but when Starmer is in charge of something - he is somehow not responsible. And that folks - is 'grade A Hypocrisy'.
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  682.  @errorswillmultiply1697  If you would pay attention, you might actually learn something. Your silly attempts at counter argument are neither funny nor clever. Now, stand in the corner and don't forget to put the dunce's hat on your dopey head.
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  683. The majority of young and more intelligent people that want to be in Europe should start a new political party called: 'United Kingdom In Party'.
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  684.  @royfearn4345  It's never about going backwards. The British Empire is history. The future is a political and military alliance between Canada. Austrailia, New Zealand and the UK. These individual countries need their collective strength.
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  685. Scots will not vote to leave the UK - the change is bigger than in 14 - so the vote for change will be smaller - nobody voted 'No' because they feared being out of the EU - that is just silly.
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  686. Exactly! They should have told the truth about wanting to join the euro - it is EU policy.
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  687. Phil has got 125K subscribers - if he's not careful he will be invited on a TV discussion where instead of regurgitating his own pre-prepared spiel unopposed - he will get 'ripped a new one'...
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  688.  @edwardbernthal160  The government does plan ahead. There will be experts for agriculture and fisheries and food doing precisely this. Of course it takes time to grow food, but they will probably buy from elsewhere until more homegrown becomes available.
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  689.  @molybdomancer195  During WW2 people were encouraged to grow vegetables and produce their own food. My Grandfather who had fought in WW1 and was too old for WW2 was able to swap his family's egg ration for chickenfeed and he kept some chickens.
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  690.  @edwardbernthal160  I think we were all in a political purgatory from the referendum to Boris Johnson wining a Brexit majority. Now we seem stuck in a 'get covid done' quagmire. When we get out to the other side (whatever that might be) the government should begin looking like it has a vision for a renaissance UK. Worst case scenario: we will all muddle though and Brexit will be a workable success.
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  691. A good starting point could be that vengeance is not a virtue. Also, that political opinions and morals are (in political terms) the same thing.
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  692. Don't forget the people surveyed are on the poll register - so they know the pollster knows how they voted in 2016. These people are too embarrassed to say they've changed their minds - so they pretend to accept democracy. If they ever got in a private voting booth on the question of UK/EU - that would be a very different matter.
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  693.  @darrenwithers3628  Plenty of stupid people voted Remain too. I was at a meeting where someone said the main reason they voted Remain was to 'keep the pound'. slightly perplexed, I asked them what had made them think the pound was at risk by voting Leave - they said it was in the government leaflet to not join the euro and that advised vote Remain. Clever people understand that all kinds of people are allowed to vote and everyone's vote is equal in worth.
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  694.  @stephenconway2468  You could tell all that to the birds - they should be getting up soon... ''cheep' 'twitter' 'twitter'...
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  695. Poor Phil, all his hopes for deprivation have not materialised - it must be hard for him seeing the UK people doing well.
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  696.  @nicadi2005  I used the word 'Remoaner' not 'Remainer'. Most people who voted Remain have accepted the result of the referendum. This idea that a majority in the UK would now vote to stay in the EU is absurd propaganda designed to change minds.
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  697.  @forenamesurname6147  That's not true. UK citizens have had and still have the opportunity to move to any EU country. Brexiteers have not sought to dispossess any EU citizens of a democratic sovereign homeland. It is undemocratic Remoaners that seek to do this to Brexiteers. Where were the Brexiteers to go to?
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  698.  @flitsertheo  The UK should not have joined the EU, as there was no referendum on this. It's the EU that is taking rights away from EU citizens. Millions of UK nationals were born EU citizens - whether these people are allowed to live and work in the EU - is a matter for the EU to decide.
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  699.  @flitsertheo  It's all in the words - often referred to as 'the subject matter' or 'topic'.
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  700. Millions of people in the UK were born EU citizens - it now appears the EU is going to rescind the rights of these people to live and work in the EU.
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  701.  @flitsertheo  That's silly. It's no different than saying: 'It's not my fault I raped a woman - her friend is a slapper'. The EU has the power to allow these rights to continue. Obviously a vindictive organisation that has zero respect for the rights of its citizens. The UK would not act in this way.
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  702.  @flitsertheo  Of course the EU could say 'Any person who has held the right to an EU passport shall not have that right removed by the EU'... What kind of organisation cannot make rules which apply to that organisation? Why would any 'state' turn it's back on its own citizens? Very bad! The UK might be leaving the EU, but the EU is still a 'political state'. A political state it seems willing to ostracise its own innocent citizens in punishment. When Southern Ireland decided to separate from the UK (1920s), the UK allowed all Irish people to live and work anywhere in UK - a right which continues to this day. Perhaps this shows the difference between the Great British Empire and the Fourth Reich.
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  703.  @flitsertheo  Once more; when Southern Ireland 'chose to forsake its membership of the United Kingdom, the United Kingdom did not forsake its Irish citizens.
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  704.  @flitsertheo  The UK is just saying to the EU the UK will no longer be a part of the EU. It does not follow the EU should deny UK people anything. It might be that after Brexit some people go to the European Court of Human Rights and ask that Court to make the EU respect their birth right to live and work in the EU. It's not easy in law to remove rights from people. In reality, it would benefit the EU to allow UK citizens to live and work in the post-Brexit EU and I think there are already some plans to do this. The EU will want to encourage UK membership in future and since the EU benefits from UK workers and pensioners it would be politically wise to be looking like 'the good guy'.
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  705.  @flitsertheo  EU 27 citizens were never UK citizens by birth, whereas UK citizens were EU citizens by birth (being born AFTER the UK joined the EU)... Clearly it is you who has entitlement issues.
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  706. If Labour loses the next general election, by the time of the following general election they will have been out of power for twenty years. Imagine the manifesto: 'We are very experienced in complaining about the successful politicians"...
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  707. Labour has been doing very well in the mid-term polls since 2012.
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  708. I recall a TV article filmed on the day after the referendum. It showed a working class Brexit voter learning the result. She said: 'We knew it was going to be tough at first but it's what we want.' It's called 'democracy' - if the losers like the result the winners don't give a ****.
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  709. The Tories might wake up to the fact they have been in chronic decline and were looking like history until saved by Brexit and working class voters. We now have a united Tory Party with a huge majority that understands how close they came to a left-wing prime minister. For these reasons we might see the Tories in a new light, as they attempt to hold on to that 2019 vote.
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  710. The UK leaving the EU is very different to Scotland leaving the UK . I Remember during the Brexit referendum, Remain was telling everyone the UK is a sovereign country.
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  711.  @AidanParle  The EU built a wall before Trump was elected.
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  712. How many are Remoaners having a moan and how many are Leavers having a laugh? And what difference does it make?
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  713. They haven't won a 'UK join' vote yet and after 40+ years they couldn't persuade the UK electorate to 'stay joined'. The next Labour manifesto will be pro-Brexit.
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  714. Saying "Allowing a breach of the GFA" sounds very serious - so what exactly do you mean? What might happen that you say would be a 'breach of the GFA'?
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  715. Yes, it's America and Russia now against woke...
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  716. Did you see the rejoin march? LOL!
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  717.  @QT5656  Exactly! When I meet a remoaner I just say 'I suppose so' and think to myself 'what a thicko'...
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  718.  @QT5656  The benefit of Brexit is we are not in the EU and can make political decisions without giving foreigners money to control us. What would be the benefit of joining the EU? I haven't met one rejoiner that can name a single benefit - perhaps you could think of one worth giving up independence and paying billions for. End of the day - UK inflation is the EU average with several EU counties having much worse levels. We have only really been out for 20 months - it will take time to find the ropes, steady the keel and set a new course. The problem is we have a parliament/establishment full of EU deluded gonks chasing their tails. "But they will learn"
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  719.  @bonariablackie4047  We Brexiteers were under no illusions as to the true psychological nature of ardent pro EU activists.
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  720.  @janebedden8618  toilet humour - really? is this the best remoaners can do now?
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  721.  @sockjuice8795  Same thing they were saying about people in 1930s/40s Germany...
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  722.  @carlosonliones202  Thank you Captain of Thought Police - I dream about an independent UK every night and every morning I wake up and it's true.
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  723.  @theon9575  We'll see what Jimmy Savile's ghost does about that theory!
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  724.  @bryangeake5826  Good point! We've got to stop talking about Brexit, because whether the UK should be a member of the EU has been decided and there's no point being negative. We should all pull up our socks, put on a smile and get on with it!
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  725.  @bryangeake5826  I was responding to a comment from an opponent of Brexit who was wishing Leave voters would lose their jobs/homes and suchlike....
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  726.  @bryangeake5826  People in general are fed-up with remoanerds complaining about Brexit. There's probably less than 10% of Remain voters which is about 3% of eligible voters who will not accept democracy and cannot stop themselves trying to impose their weird political vision on everyone else. Unfortunately, this is around a million weirdos and many of these weirdos are in positions of power which they abuse to damage the UK.
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  727.  @bryangeake5826  'If' my figures are as you claim "pure speculation" then your reasoning for thinking this "I doubt it very much" appears to be speculative. I don't claim absolute accuracy, but looking at turnout in the 2014 UK/EU elections (36%) and knowing that, just two years later at least half of those voters must have voted to leave the EU. It is reasonable to say, at best 18% of the UK electorate were positively participating in the EU's political system and since then the two main parties have changed policy. With regard to the perceived 'rights and wrongs' of the referendum, one simple fact cannot be overlooked and this is 'citizenship'. Every voter was aware of the concept of 'EU citizenship' and the question on the ballot pertained to this much more than it could: 'future GDP' 'NHS' 'Immigration' or any other matter. In the end, a majority of UK voters rejected EU citizenship and that cannot be set aside.
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  728.  @bryangeake5826  I just explained where the data came from. Did you know the EU has just announced any country (Scotland/UK) applying to join the EU must first commit to joining the euro? Can't see many voting for that...
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  729.  @bryangeake5826  Think up all your arguments and imagine what they would look like on the side of a bus...
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  730.  @bryangeake5826  I'll try again. My initial claim which you 'doubted' was that only around 10% of 2016 Remain voters were now committed to UK rejoining EU. In arriving at this figure, I pointed out that just 36% of voters had voted in the 2014 UK/EU elections and that, in 2016 +50% of all voters voted to leave the EU, so applying a huge sample we can extrapolate that half of the 2014 vote voted Leave leaving 18% actively pro EU. Subsequent to Brexit and Labour/Conservatives changing policy on EU membership it is reasonable to assume that 18% figure must have reduced to at best around 10%.
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  731.  @bryangeake5826  Yes, it came from official source in Brussels - several leading newspapers have the story.
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  732.  @bryangeake5826  You're trying to rerun the 16 referendum when it's impossible, immaterial and absurd to try. The only relevant question is what would a referendum held now on 'Should the UK apply to join the EU?' look like? Who do you think would front the 'Yes campaign' Eddie Izzard, Richard Branson, Bob Geldof, Tony Blair, John Major? They couldn't persuade the people to stay in - whatever makes you think they could persuade the people to join? I really can't see it happening...
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  733.  @bryangeake5826  Oh, I see, a referendum on your terms with you disallowing any input you consider 'wrong opinion' - why don't we call it the 'Let's Make Bryan UK Despot Referendum'?
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  734.  @bryangeake5826  Like I said Bryan, put it on a bus: 'Only 26% voted for Brexit - We were robbed' Very catchy!
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  735.  @bryangeake5826  What makes you assume actual votes of 36% of the electorate and 72% of the electorate are not representative polls, when it is shown a general election result can be calculated on exit polls of a few thousand voters? What you don't seem to understand is the referendum result was such that, every person the UK voted the same way.
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  736.  @bryangeake5826  If you have data of 33.5m actual votes then, you can use this to calculate how those that did not vote think. It's been proven to be so - it's scientifically correct to say: 'The UK was 52% in favour of Brexit'
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  737.  @bryangeake5826  Well, that's still a win for Brexit under the rules - what evidence is there that people would vote differently now?
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  738.  @bryangeake5826  So, why do you believe a Mori poll based on instant reaction of 1115 people is an accurate representation of how the UK feels and that, 33.5 million actual votes made after extensive political campaigning is not?
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  739.  @bryangeake5826  The rules are when the country is divided on a political issue a majority will decide the way forward - it's a direct form of 'democracy'. If you don't agree with this method why have you asked for another referendum? If you were to have another referendum and lose would you want yet another? If you won would you agree to the other side getting another?
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  740.  @bryangeake5826  Who's saying the referendum was not advisory? The people advised the MPs, the MPs debated, the MPs put the matter to the people in a general election, the people elected a government with a pledge to take the UK out of the EU. As for 'lies' - it's very easy to say 'Leave told loads of lies' A lie is when a person makes a statement claiming something to be true, when that person either knows the message is not true or does not know the message is true. So, using that criteria why don't you cite any Leave statement verbatim and demonstrate with fact why you think it is a lie? Remember - just one example and you choose.
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  741.  @bryangeake5826  I just explained the UK did not leave the EU solely on the basis of the referendum. There was a general election in which Brexit was a Conservative Party pledge and the Conservative Party gained most seats, so was able to form a government and fulfill its promise to the people. Surely, this is far more democratic than when the UK government joined the UK to the EEC with no prior referendum approval and on a manifesto pledge not to join "Our sole commitment is to negotiate; no more, no less"
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  742.  @bryangeake5826  And in the 2017 general election more than 80% of votes went to parties promising Brexit - your point is?
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  743.  @bryangeake5826  That's not the accepted way to cite a statement, however, for the purpose of our discussion, I will assume Farage said exactly that and respond to it. Farage was not a member of the official Leave Campaign and therefore able to say what any person was allowed by law to say. It appears he meant that, supporting the EU would be supporting the well documented negotiations between Turkey and the EU which prove that Turkey is engaged in the process of joining the EU. a person stating an opinion you do not agree with is not the same as that person telling a lie.
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  744.  @bryangeake5826  People in the UK are allowed to not want to belong to a political union that is in negotiation with Turkey to join. People in the UK are allowed to talk about such things and allowed to vote against what they don't want. I can see you would rather remove these rights from UK people and have them only be allowed to discuss and vote in a way you approve of, but we don't live in a fascist state run by you.
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  745.  @bryangeake5826  So, if as you say: 'Turkey is nowhere near meeting entry requirements' People like me who did not want to be in a political union with Turkey ever were right to heed the UK government advice: "It's a big decision. One that will affect you, your family and your children for decades to come"
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  746.  @bryangeake5826  It's early days - pretty sure in 2015 you were telling anyone that would listen the UK would never leave the EU...
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  747.  @bryangeake5826  No Leave voter expected immediate economic benefits from Brexit, as it was obvious the upheaval would be problematic. This doesn't mean the decision to leave was wrong. The Remoaners are using the cost of living crisis to claim Brexit has not worked, but UK inflation is same as the EU average and several EU countries have double the UK level. Has the EU left the single market and customs union? No, it's clear the cost of living crisis has been caused by the pandemic and war on the Ukraine/Russia border.
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  748.  @bryangeake5826  Correct.
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  749.  @bryangeake5826  The point about 'Has the EU left the Single Market?' is the EU having the same cost of living crisis and being subject to the same economic pressures as the UK, can only mean the cost of living crisis in the UK has nothing to do with the UK not being in the Single Market. I don't think you fully understand democracy; how the referendum worked - it was not a general election giving power to a group of politicians with any promise to the electorate. it was just a way of sorting a binary issue allowing politicians to gain democratic approval for either keeping the UK in the EU, or taking the UK out of the EU. Once the referendum decision to take the UK out of the EU had been delivered to the politicians, they had to change policy on the UK's continuing EU membership or face the wrath of the public. As I already explained, the UK exited the EU in a far more democratic way than it joined the EEC or joined the EU - this is a matter of record that cannot be denied.
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  750.  @bryangeake5826  Like I said you don't understand - you use a lot of important words, but you don't really know what they mean. Try to think of it this way: If the referendum was as you seem to think not crucial, why did the leaders of the opposition to Brexit want another referendum?
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  751.  @bryangeake5826  So, you think parliament should have looked at the referendum result and said: 'It's pretty close, let's take a vote and decide whether we should leave the EU' and then voted to stay in the EU. Well, parliament could have done this, yet parliament decided not to, so it appears you will only accept parliament decisions if parliament decides what you think is right. Yet, you expect the 52% to accept parliament's decision when you will not. I have explained before; the UK could not have left the EU without parliament voting for it.
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  752.  @bryangeake5826  Did the UK people in any way vote enthusiastically to endorse the political/federal/citizenship concept of EU? It appears from the campaigns and result that, most Remain voters were more 'scared of pending economic disaster' than they were 'wanting to be EU citizens'. Have you thought about what would be the 'Yes' message in any re-join referendum? I mean a 'project fear' type approach would not be possible.
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  753.  @bryangeake5826  Well, whatever take you put on it - Brexit got done and we are where we are. As for another referendum, there would need to be some sort of political 'call to arms' for it. I suppose the plan is for a future government to slide the UK sideways into the Single Market on an 'economic necessity' excuse then argue the UK should join the EU, so as not to be a 'rule-taker'. There could be no getting around there would have to be a referendum on membership and this would present a huge gamble/obstacle. In reality, anti-EU forces in the UK would demand a referendum before any UK government could join the Single Market and start making further contributions to the EU.
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  754.  @bryangeake5826  We covered this already; there was no Conservative Party Manifesto in 1972, because there was no general election in 1972. The relevant general election was in 1970 and the Conservative Party Manifesto promised not to join "We will negotiate; no more, no less." despite this assurance to the British people Heath's government went ahead and joined the UK to the 'European Economic Community' (which became the much changed the EU in 1993). The referendum was in 1975 and was on the UK's membership of the EEC, not the EU - so, there was never any UK referendum giving mandate to the UK's membership of the EU.
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  755.  @bryangeake5826  I seem to think if Remain had won by a single vote you would have claimed victory saying: "There was a protest vote against politicians and a lot of old people had nostalgia about the Empire and of course many did not understand the complex economic issues and unfortunately there was a racist anti immigrant element.'
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  756.  @bryangeake5826  Are you living in another dimension? I was talking about the 1970 general election and the 1970 Conservative Party manifesto! There was no '1973 general election'!!!
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  757.  @bryangeake5826  The ERG was told if they got their referendum that had to be the end of the party division and they must accept the result - they understood a vote to stay would end their cause so they agreed - didn't turn out as Cameron and Osborne had anticipated.
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  758.  @bryangeake5826  It only scraped though parliament by about 10 votes - all those argument and look how it ended (what a waste). 23 June 2016 was last chance saloon for both camps. As Enoch Powell predicted while the votes were being counted to stay in the EEC - the British people had not understood what they had voted for, but they would learn.
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  759.  @bryangeake5826  But, like Enoch said, the British people would never agree to being part of a federal Europe - so it was the wrong way to go and therefore a waste of time and money. BTW that's not how to use 'empirical'...
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  760.  @bryangeake5826  Well, people seen it as being increasingly federal and it's a lot more like federalism than being an independent sovereign nation state. At the end of the day, there were other countries making rules over UK lives and taxing UK citizens, people in the UK were entitled to oppose and vote against that. What an elected post Brexit UK government might or might not do is not relevant to the argument of Brexit - the idea was be different to being in the EU. We are not 'going back' to inches and pounds - we use them every day - we weigh ourselves in stones and pounds and we measure our heights in feet and inches. BTW I think you mean 'imperial' not 'empirical'.
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  761.  @bryangeake5826  I think it's silly to suggest any Leave voter wanted a return to the British Empire. However, I would argue the British Empire was on the whole, a good thing. OK, things were done hundreds of years ago we might think wrong today, but 'hundreds of years ago' was not 'today'. There's a lot of people like to denigrate British history claiming the British/English were/are racist and tyrannical - I think the empirical evidence shows the opposite is true.
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  762.  @bryangeake5826  I think you are being 'selective' because the British Empire spanned roughly a quarter of the globe, a quarter of the people in the world over a quarter of a millennium. There are bound to be some instances where the British are seen as being unjust. However, we have to look at the big picture and understand those were very different times. Like I said, there is much evidence to show the British Empire did good for the world - much more good than the empires of those EU countries you seem to grovel to. Are you one of these people who thinks the white man should never have landed on Australia (or if you prefer 'the big continental island with no known name'). And should have allowed the indigenous people to remain in charge careful not to fly aircraft or sail seacraft within eyesight of the shores? Are you one of these silly, unrealistic people who cannot comprehend the obvious implication and alternative consequences of their absurdist whimsical notions?
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  763.  @bryangeake5826  We have been through the 'let's blindly follow the politicians' period and that ruse will not work again. Politicians will be expected to work for the UK people and will become increasingly accountable. These things take time, but history shows political awareness is never regressive.
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  764.  @bryangeake5826  Of course, it's absurd - you are basically saying the English should not have settled in other countries - how do you think that would have worked (explanation required). If we look at republicanism in Southern Ireland and Northern Ireland they don't like that British people took over land on the island of Ireland, but if we go to Dublin we see a museum celebrating Irish people taking over the land of indigenous peoples in North America and Australia. "At EPIC you’ll discover the far reaching influence of Irish history and the impact that the 10 million Irish men and women who left Ireland had on the world." Complete hypocrisy!
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  765.  @bryangeake5826  It's not just the ERG that wanted Brexit - there were people like Tony Benn and Jeremy Corbyn and left-wing organisations such as NO2EU that were opposed to the aims of the EU. Millions of life-long Labour voters decided to vote Leave. Following the referendum, there was an elite/establishment/media propaganda campaign to achieve a second vote - this propaganda campaign attempted to make Brexit the same as the right of the Tory Party to turn ordinary people against Brexit. The UK people were subjected to lies by a minority of elite ideologues who thought they were the 'movers&shakers' LOL!
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  766.  @bryangeake5826  So, what is your point - 'The UK people government was wrong to leave the EU and the UK should rejoin the EU?' I wrote it down so you might see how nuts it is. Here's a reality check: The UK is not a member of the EU and as time passes this will become 'old news'. I explained in the beginning; the EU was imposed on the UK people by politicians and Brexit has been imposed on politicians by the UK people - it's all over!
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  767.  @bryangeake5826  In 2016, people did not/could not understand the economic arguments surrounding Brexit and even experts provided differing opinions on how leaving the EU would impact the UK economy in the short and long term. In reality, the size of the economy is not uppermost in most people's minds, also evidence shows working class people can live happy and fulfilled lives in poorer countries. What every person did understand, is the concept of 'EU citizenship' and 'EU governance' and the question on the ballot paper pertained to this much more than: 'GDP' 'exports' 'tariffs' 'trade deals' or any other matter. So, every voter must have known that, voting Leave would mean renouncing their EU citizenship and repulsing the EU's political control over their country and life. That, every Leave voter did not want to be an EU citizen is a certainty. Whether every Remain voter wanted to be an EU citizen, or had voted for the UK to stay in the EU over other concerns is far less certain. The EU has been wholly rejected by the UK people.
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  768.  @bryangeake5826  I said people can be happy in 'poorer' countries - you said 'poor' countries - stop arguing against yourself in the bizarre hope it will somehow defeat something I did not say. The point I was making is 'it's only trade' won't work again - you will have to sell the 'united states of Europe' to the UK electorate and that will be (according to Enoch) *impossible*. You have no 'facts' you haven't even got a referendum - you don't even know the question of the referendum which you haven't even got. You are attempting to relive the past to prove you were not wrong, because you have taken it all personally. We don't live in the past - we work toward a better future.
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  769.  @bryangeake5826  Well, if you try to put all of that on the side of a bus most people will take no notice. What I was saying is 'standard of living' is more important than how wealthy a country is. I have travelled a fair bit - there are countries where unskilled people can get employment and earn enough to pay their bills by Wednesday and have Thursday's/Friday's earnings to enjoy. Ordinary people in the UK got a lot worse off in the EU. The irrefutable evidence for this is; before 'Europe' a single UK unskilled wage could keep a family (without in-work benefits) and even buy a house. Most people do not think about the economy, a complex subject over which 'experts' disagree and usually get wrong. If you're going to ask people to vote to join the EU - you're going to need a better reason than trade. "Vote for a better economy" just won't cut the mustard when people are doing OK.
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  770.  @bryangeake5826  The red bus did not lie. It used an official EU figure taken from official/public EU documents. There was a 'UK rebate' to be applied, however, this was in the EU's hands and plans were afoot to remove it. Also, UK pro-EU MPs were opposed to UK having a rebate wanting the UK to pay the full EU calculated amount for membership contribution. So, since UK voters were advised by the government to look to the future "It's a big decision. One that will affect you, your family and your children for decades to come." it was entirely reasonable to assume the UK rebate would in time, be removed. Now we have the 'NHS' bit. The easiest way to explain this is using an analogy (and we all know how much Remoaners love a good analogy). Imagine a family spending £25K each year on various outgoings and having £22K in income. Imagine the family wants to cut back on spending, because they are actually borrowing each year to pay the bills. Imagine the wife/mother suggests to the husband/father: "We are spending £1K each year for our gym membership - why don't we put this toward more crucial things instead?" So, what is principally different about that question/suggestion and the question/suggestion on the red bus? And how can the question/suggestion be 'a lie' given it is not possible for a question/suggestion to be a lie?
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  771.  @bryangeake5826  Bryan, it's an inescapable fact that any money not used to fund the EU would be used to fund the NHS - this is because all UK government spending comes from the same UK government coffer. I agree the words on the red bus can be made into a lie by replacing words like 'extra' in place of "instead" two different words with very different meanings. It's clear all you have is extraneous waffle and let's face it, you have waffled incessantly throughout this entire conversation. As I keep telling you: put all your waffle nonsense on the side of a bus, drive it around the UK and see the 'WTF' expressions on people's faces.
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  772.  @bryangeake5826  You cannot know the UK will not be more wealthy in 10 years than it might have been had it stayed in the EU. You think you some kind of soothsayer or something? Democratic politics is always about hoping for 'a better future' - what's new about that?
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  773.  @bryangeake5826  I think when many people seen the red bus - they just thought: I don't want to waste my taxes on the EU - I'd rather all that money was used in the UK for things like the NHS. So, no 'lie' else that guy who took Boris to court would have won his case.
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  774.  @bryangeake5826  If the EU membership was so financially beneficial to the UK economy - why did the EU agree to the UK contribution rebate? Are you saying the EU did know how much it was helping the UK economy?
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  775.  @bryangeake5826  'Peace in Europe'? The EU is busy providing smart bombs to kill Russian soldiers and fuel a bloody war that would be over by now. Just because the EU wants to control the territory/lives of Russian speaking people who want to be part of the Russian Federation.
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  776.  @bryangeake5826  Perhaps, but you digress, as the point of contention is whether or not the suggestion on the Leave bus was a lie - not whether the proposal was fiscally prudent in the long-term. As I said, a suggestion cannot be a lie, unless it contains a statement which is untrue and the only statement in the suggestion related to the '£350m p/w' figure which was the EU's official figure taken from a public EU document. Also, we mustn't forget there was an opposing 'Remain' campaign that was capable of challenging any of Leave's claims. We know this was not forthcoming, because Remain politicians did not want to talk about handing UK taxpayers' money to Brussels.
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  777.  @bryangeake5826  I think the sovereignty of territory has to be decided by a majority of the people who live there. It's clear the majority living in those disputed regions are pro-Russia. There was civil war there since 2014 caused by Ukraine government persecuting Russian speakers in Ukraine. There are millions of Russian speakers there and laws have been introduced banning the Russian language on TV, in schools, in the workplace. Why is this dispute any of your business that you feel a need to cover yourself in the blood of people's loved ones?
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  778.  @bryangeake5826  What about the security of Russia? Russia is bigger than USA and the EU joined together - why can't Russian people be concerned about their security when NATO is essentially a club of nations threatening Russia. Why do you think The West can invade Iraq and Russia cannot intervene in civil war involving Russian speaking people being killed by soldiers with Nazi symbols on their uniforms?? Why do you think people in Scotland and Northern Ireland should be able to chose their independence, but people who speak Russian because their ancestors were Russian cannot?
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  779.  @bryangeake5826  In war there are always two sides of people that really don't get along - it's wise to understand both sides and seek peaceful solution. I see you have chosen not to answer my points directly, but instead opted to subterfuge immaterial one-sided waffle as usual..
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  780.  @bryangeake5826  So, tell me why you believe people in Scotland and Northern Ireland should be able to decide independence/affiliation by majority vote, but you believe this democratic principle of self-determination should not apply to the people living in the disputed regions of this war?
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  781.  @bryangeake5826  The UK is a 'sovereign country' I know this to be a fact, because Remain politicians made it very clear during the EU referendum. So again, how can the people of Scotland or Northern Ireland leave a sovereign country by majority vote when the people of another sovereign country cannot?
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  782.  @bryangeake5826  So, you are now saying the UK is not sovereign, but an alliance of sovereign countries. Why has two of these sovereign countries left the EU, when the people in those countries voted by majority to remain in the EU? That doesn't sound very much like 'sovereignty'...
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  783.  @bryangeake5826  So, you are saying definitive demarcation of sovereignty is drawn on maps by people and as a consequence of this people do not have a right to democratic self-determination?
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  784.  @bryangeake5826  You are just dodging the question with waffle as usual. Constitutional law is made by people and constitutional law is changed by people, the consensus being, this is best done by a consensus of those wanting the change. Are you aware 50,000 young Russians have been killed by/with your support - just so you can control the lives of people who don't want to be controlled by you?
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  785.  @bryangeake5826  The obvious error in your reasoning is that in the context of 'constitutional change' 'the people' literally is 'democracy' and it can manifest by different means the important part being 'consensus'.
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  786. It seems all these remoaners think about is money. They need to learn there's more to life than capital wealth. There are countries in the world that have low per-capita wealth, but have good quality of life. Not everything worth having is about money.
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  787.  @MarkBuckleyCorkTuba  How exactly does a land border break the GFA? The GFA doesn't pretend there is no land border between two separate countries. You cannot call someone a liar when you have stated an untruth.
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  788.  @MarkBuckleyCorkTuba  That is incorrect. The trade border between ROI and UK was eased because of both country's participation in the EEC/EU single market. Prior to this there was a trade border, but people were able to pass freely (Common Travel Area 1922) except for security posts occasionally checking for illegal weapons during 'The Troubles'. The GFA says nothing about trade or free movement and recognises the border as being between two separate countries. The GFA ended the security posts, as these were not required with agreed end to terrorist activities.
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  789. Open invitation to all Remainers, please gather on Brighton Beach (between the piers) on Saturday 7 March at 3:00pm. Bring a chair, refreshments and EU flags. The object is to form a 'line of wisdom' across the beach and use collective intelligence to prevent the tide from coming in. This will prove to the world that we know best and that Brexit is wrong.
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  790. Quick reminder guys - all meeting 3:00pm at Lord Adonis's cockle stall - it's the one that's boarded up with an 'in receivership' sign on in.
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  791. Just driving in Cornwall and seen hundreds of workers in the fields picking daffodils.
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  792.  @weissblau  You can't - that would be illegal - you have to pay them.
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