Comments by "justgivemethetruth" (@justgivemethetruth) on "Julia Hartley-Brewer and Peter Hitchens' fascinating clash over the war in Ukraine" video.
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Hitchens:
0:55 - Opening remarks. The facts and history show that Russia was provoked by NATO encroachment for years, even more than a decade. There is no debate on the war, which was already started and set up in the last decade. Hard to debate when things have already gotten out of hand by dishonest Western agreements - i.e. Minsk.
5:15 - Asked what part of Ukraine should Ukraine give up, like Ukraine equals Britain. UK != Ukraine. Ukraine's border came from Russia and have changed drasticly in the last hundred years, and they are at war with their own people who happen to have ties to Russia. This lady, Julia Hartley-Brewer, is completely dishonest.
10:55 - Julia Hartley-Brewer again is dishonestly framing this war basically again saying it was unprovoked and that Putin has designs on other countries. This is fantasyland. Putin does not have the power to even take Ukraine, how is he going to take other countries? Framing Russia like WWII Germany is scare tactics for the ignorant.
The original status quo that the West failed to live up to was that Crimea is Russian - period. They voted to be part of Russia, and it is Russia and strategically important to Russia. It was given to Ukraine by Stalin in the 50's, but look back at Ukraine's borders over the centuries. How did it get from a tiny landlocked country to the largest country in Europe with access to the sea? Mostly in the last 100+ years - at the expense of Russia now.
What is fair is what was agreed to, but now, how can Putin ever trust the West? The West signed an agreement to not pull Ukraine into NATO, and to end the fighting in Donbas - that is what got Zelensky elected? Then he reversed course and headed towards war - with words about joining NATO. Yanukovych wanted Ukraine to be neutral and to trade with both the West and the East - which points towards this all being an economic war of the US against Russia.
This woman blathers on about how Ukrainians should have the right to do what they want to do, or more specifically what the Western PR propagandists have tried to convinve them of and say they want. But the Crimeans wanted to be part of Russia. Many polls and interviews with people have shown that Crimea wanted to be part of Russia, and of course after years of shelling the Donbas does not want Ukraine to be able to continue that. She is just outright lying and propagandizing a real mind-screwed story that does to reflect reality.
15:24 - Peter tries to get a word in edgewise several times while this women goes on about how he wants Ukraine to be an abused wife? How infinitely absurd. Peter nails it 100% here.
Now, the real argument against Russia, or Peter is that the US does not want to take the chance on Russia becoming the free and democratic powerhouse it might could become - because they are so close and influential to the EU. That is the core of the real argument here ... is that legitimate? Is the US validated in keeping Russia down for fear of what it might become - and for fear of what it might prevent the US from doing viz-a-viz expanding a liberal global economic system ... under US management of course.
There are arguments both ways, but the US in recent years has done the exact opposite in term of winning the world over to our point of view.
Julia Hartley-Brewer claims Ukraine has had elections since the overthrow, but that is when the Ukrainian government decided to go to war on the Donbas, and when Zelensky ran on a peace platform to end the war - that is what got him elected, and then he did the opposite ... how is that democracy Julia Hartley-Brewer ??? What she has said is ridiculous lies and propaganda.
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@ThomasDanielsen1000
He was right - it's not for him to say, it is for peace negotiations to hammer out.
Personally, in my completely irrelevant opinion, the status quo before the war should have been according to Minsk agreement, that
- the fighting in the Donbas should have been ended, and
- those oblasts should have been giving autonomy while still belonging to Ukraine.
- Russia keeps Crimea because Crimea was given to Ukraine by the USSR under completely different circumstances, AND a vote and polling revealed the majority of Crimeans wanted to be with Russia.
- If you look at the history of Ukraine's borders they benefitted from expansionism from the 1600's. How did it go from a tiny landlocked country in the middle of today's Ukraine to the largest country in Europe? In the last hundred plus years Ukraine gained all those oblasts - from Russia. Now for secruity purposes and defense Russia wants them back.
- That goes to the invasion with money and CIA of Ukraine, first the US appointed Victor Yushenko President, remember his so-called poisoning that made world news. Yushenko was a terrible President and was voted out. Then Yanukovych, where Hitchens picks it up ran and was duly elected President. He was called a soviet puppet because his vision, and Putin's as well was to have a neutral Ukraine trading with both sides, Russia and the EU.
- Go look at Hitchen's Twitter feed and you'll see a book he quotes from explaining how Yanukovych was forced out of office - without due process. This was American meddling which pandered to the Nazi Nationalists.
- Then Poroshenko and Zelensky, both were in on arming training and preparing for - AND PROVOKING WAR by shelling the Donbas - even though Zelensky got elected on the promise to end the war.
The point is that the situation is so heavily slanted towards this Western narrative that answering that question out of context would be tantamount to saying Hitchens is Putin's puppet. This is very masterful, brilliant, mass-murderous vicious cold-blooded manipulation by the West - like the Nordstream pipeline that at this point people are brainwashed to not understanding. Again thousands, tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of people are killed for US interests and Ukraine is completely destroyed - ready for US interests and oligarchs to take over.
What is just in this case. It's almost impossible to say - but there were peace negotiations that started with what I was saying above that the West forced Zelensky to pull out of. Believe me, I hate putting my country, the US in the role of the villain - unless there was a solid reason for it. So far we have not even admitted to what we've done, and we are lying like crazy even about the Nordstream pipeline.
Do I think it would be better if Russia was to move on from Putin and become more democratic ... yes. But how would that happen and what would be next. Huge revolution and bloodshed in Russia next.
And - all of this happening like noithing else in the world matters ... like Global Warming. This may be the final action that has pushed us to be unable to solve that issue.
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