Comments by "Pantherparatrooper" (@506thparatrooper) on "WSJ News"
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As an American, I'm grateful for NATO's support after 911. Also, many victims who died in the twin towers in NYC and on the planes were Europeans. It was much more than an attack on one NATO country. The presence of over 300,000 American troops during the height of the Cold War and over 100,000 troops stationed there currently, especially in Poland and the Baltic States, over NATO's 75 year existence, is a major profit for all European NATO countries enjoying 75 years of peace.
Some historical context to why America invoked Article 5 assistance. At 911, the US AWACS fleet consisted of 28 AWACS aircraft and 3,400 personnel, engaged in four different theaters of operation globally in support of American military assistance commitments to other allies including Europe. The United States requested NATO deploy its AWACS to reduce the operational pressure on the US AWACS fleet, allowing them to continue to conduct much-needed training and maintenance. On 8 October NATO agreed to provide five NATO AWACS and crews in support of the anti-terrorist campaign. Operation Eagle Assist ended on 15 May 2002. In more than seven months of patrolling the skies over the United States, the E-3A Component flew 447 sorties with a total of 4,719 flying hours. The majority of these flights went to the East Coast, and other flights guarded major cities, nuclear power plants, bridges or major sports events.
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I served as an American Soldier on two senior US Generals's staffs in Kaiserslautern & Wiesbaden, Germany, 2013-2017, I understand host nation's cost sharing and actual costs to the American taxpayer. I believe America has benefited from the NATO alliance like post 911 and am grateful. Lets compare without complaining Europe's contributions with America's.
Even while enjoying the tremendous economic benefits of over 100,000 American Soldiers and their families as well as the taxes of thousands of EU national workers paid by America, Germany reimburses a fraction of the billions of taxpayer dollars for these expenses. Like most American Soldiers, my German rent was three times the local German's rent in the same area.
According to NATO, why is 20 of 31 nations failing to fulfill their commitment of 2% for almost 10 years acceptable but America failing for 5 months to fulfill her commitment to Ukraine some unspeakable failure? Several dear Ukrainian friends are in Ukraine so I understand the urgency.
During NATO's 75 years, America ALWAYS fulfilled her commitment resulting in Europe's longest time of peace. According to NATO, America paid 70% of NATO's financial expenditures in 2022 alone.
The 911 terrorist attacks occurred in America and also killed 133 citizens from 12 other NATO countries. It was an attack on more than one NATO nation.
Operation Eagle Assist ran 7 months, 9 October 2001-16 May 2002, To date, 830 crew members from 13 NATO nations patrolled US skies. Since NATO's creation, America flew tens of thousands of combat, refueling and reconnaissance air patrols over Europe. These were supported by hundreds of thousands of American airmen, planes equipment and weapons costing the American taxpayer trillions of dollars.
According to the World Institute for Economic as of January 2024, EU support to Ukraine=$90B including $10 billion for military aid & 70 billion finances to Ukraine government. Uk provided about $15 billion in military and some humanitarian aid while the US provided $42 billion in military aid, $20 billion financial and $8 billion humanitarian or $70 billion total. Once America resolves several critical issues through the democratic process and passes an expected $61 billion aid package, total US aid to Ukraine will jump to $131 billion total.
My Danish friend, when can America expect the EU will get its house in order and provide the remaining two thirds of the one million artillery shells it promised to Ukraine last year? North Korea with an economy a fraction of the EU's possibly Denmarks provided Russia with 1 million artillery shells.
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Most Americans support giving Ukraine additional military support. They do not support endless military aid for a war President Biden has yet to declare a Ukrainian victory is America's policy and how this is achieved as General Ben Hodges, former US Army Europe Commanding General, repeatedly states is critical for sustaining the American people's support for Ukraine.
The Republican led US House passed a combined aid packaged in December 2023 that included bipartisan supported reforms to asylum processes and funds for securing America's southern border through which 8 million and growing illegals crossed in the past 3 years. Biden threatened to veto this bill and his democrat colleagues in the US Senate defeated it. The same Biden whose idea of supporting Ukraine as Russia's imminent third invasion loomed offered President Zelensky a flight out of Ukraine! The same Biden who delayed for months and years in some cases, F-16's, ATACMs, American armor, Ukraine's request for military assistance.
EU countries and the UK with stricter immigration policies than America resulted in Poland closing its borders with Belarus when Russia tried to flood Poland with illegal immigrants ignore this same threat American national security. Europeans depend on America for defense manufacturing because they gutted their own defense manufacturing capacity for the past 30 years to inflate government pensions, raise their standards of living and pursue green agendas. Germany produces two tanks a month and needs 7 years to produce the artillery ammunition Ukraine fired in one month during the height of its counteroffensive last summer.The British military—the leading U.S. military ally and Europe’s biggest defense spender—has 150 deployable tanks and a dozen serviceable long-range artillery pieces. In 2022, the British military considered sourcing multiple rocket launchers from museums to donate to Ukraine!
Like 300,000 American troops stationed in Europe during the Cold War (over 100,000 since 1991) over 10,000 American Soldiers stationed in Poland since the war began in Ukraine also excellent for the Polish economy. This includes an American armored brigade & combat aviation brigade, America's Fifth Corp Forward Headquarters in Poznan, missile defense system in Redzikowo, equipment & ammo depots in Powidz.
What does 20 NATO allies' failure to fund their defense with 2% of its GDP after committing to do so in 2014 say about their credibility and commitment to NATO's collective defense?
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@Blanka1100 As an American Soldier, I am grateful for Poland's increasingly strong contributions to NATO and Ukraine. My point is while the Foreign Minister calls on America to do more for Ukraine touting Poland's efforts, he would do well with the American people comparing Poland's efforts with America instead of only mentioning invoices for Polish troops, Poland's most recent percentage of GDP for defense and recent Polish contracts for advanced American weapon systems. Percentage of GDP: America's 6% GDP for 75 years compared with Poland's 2% of GDP average beginning in 2015, invoice for 2,500 Polish troops annually to Afghanistan compared with an invoice for 10,000 American Soldiers in Poland, and Polish military contracts for Abrams tanks, Patriot air defense and F-35's fighters (All top military technology America spent trillions of dollars researching & developing) compared with America's millions of dollars pumped annually into Poland's economy also good for Polish business as those 10,000 American Soldiers spend on the local economy, local nationals on American bases pay, etc. According to Polish government information, Poland spent 2% annually for defense 5 times over 15 years 2009-2022, 2.1%, (2015), 2% (2018 & 2019), 2.2% (2020 & 2021) and 2.4% (2022). From 2000 to 2011, Poland spent 2% once in 2007.
Poland is a great ally and strong force for NATO's collective defense. America demonstrates her commitment to Poland and NATO always meeting her NATO commitments and putting American lives on the lone stationing 10,000 American troops in Poland in addition to the 100,000's of American Soldiers in other NATO countries.
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@karolinawww6834 Much of what you say is true. Also, true and ignored by the Foreign Minister is those expenditures do not cover a fraction of the trillions of dollars America spent researching & developing these weapon systems and the cost of keeping these defense manufacturing factories running and making up the difference until Poland finally met its 2% GDP spending on defense commitment, only 5 times 2012-2022. While America always fulfilled her commitment spending 6%, $1.573 trillion, 2022, or more of its GDP for all of NATO's 75 years and covered 70% of NATO's financial expenditures, 20 of 31 NATO countries still do not since 2014.
Any money Poland spends on these expenditures and will be more than repaid as those 10,000 American troops stationed in Poland pour millions of dollars into the Polish economy through rents, maintenance, local national workers salaries, etc.
America will be just fine. You mean Europe won't be safe especially as long as 20 of 31 NATO countries continue to fail to minimally meet their 2% spending commitment and Europe continues to send billions of Euros to Russia in oil/ LNG profits.
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@marcinpok4264 I would agree with you but then we would both be wrong. Having worked for two US Army Generals in Europe, 2013-2017, I understand the difference between host nation financial support and the much larger unreimbursed expenses to the American taxpayer.
Poland will pay about $300 million for infrastructure like barracks, naval & aerial port improvements, etc. Keep in mind America pours millions of dollars annually into Poland's economy often employing Polish and other local nationals on for utilities, cleaning, shops, maintenance, etc.
Poland will pay about $300 million for infrastructure like barracks, naval & aerial port improvements, etc. The largest initiative is $93 million for new Army barracks & dining facility in Powidz, a major aviation and logistical hub for the U.S. military. Other projects include a $35 million rotary wing apron in Powidz, fuel storage and rail improvements in Swietoszow, and aerial port and taxiway upgrades in Wroclaw and $16.2 million to establish a “company operations facility” for U.S. special operations troops doing missions in Lubliniec. Source - Stars and Stripes
Poland will recover most if not all its expenditures through the millions of dollars injected into the local economies and Poland assuming control of these bases whenever the American forces withdraw.
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We agree on several points. Allies and Germans imposed restrictions on Germany after WW2. And yet a divided Germany overcoming the devastation of WW2 fielded a 495,000 manned army in the west and a 300,000 manned army in the east and spent over 3% of GDP. Today with the strongest economy in Europe a unified Germany has 183,000 Soldiers. Having used the peace dividends to pursue an aggressive green agenda, higher government pensions and standard of living, Germany produces only 2 tanks a month and only 200,000 artillery shells in its yet constructed new factory. This is the equivalent number of shells Ukraine expended in one month during its counter offensive last summer.
Germany agreed on its own to spend 2% on GDP in 2014, but still fails to do so like 19 other NATO allies after 10 years. This is not trying. It's more talk while expecting the American taxpayer to make up the difference after 75 years of always paying 6% of her GDP for defense. T America met her commitments while fight costly wars in support of other allies like the UN mission in Korea and the Gulf War. Imagine any EU country failing to pay its EU taxes or other commitments? Can America trust her European allies to be there in the current conflict with Iran & the Houthi's let alone a conflict with China when it could only deliver 200,000 artillery shells of the 1 million it promised Ukraine?
Finland and Sweden are great examples European socialist & environmentally friendly countries did on their own so why can't 28 unified European nations do the same?
You are absolutely right the best guarantee of peace is through our collective strength. Like a chain, NATO is only as strong as our weakest link. Right now, there are 20 weak links.
Germany, America and the west wisely attempted economic and political engagement with Russia after the collapse of the Soviet Union. Nord Stream 1 is understandable but Nord Stream 2 and other EU business with Russia was reckless. Golda Meir wisely said, "You cannot negotiate peace with someone who has come to kill you." Europe not only negotiated peace but paid the money to Russia build the weapon systems responsible for the death and destruction in Ukraine and threatening Europe.
President Trump was right about Nord Stream 1 & 2, 2% of GDP for defense, providing lethal aid & military advisors to Ukraine, and confronting Russia. He is mocked and dismissed today by Europe even more than he was during his Presidency. Ironically, President Trump's words already accomplished in the past year what every President since President Eisenhower failed to accomplish in 60 years-8 more NATO allies paying at least 2% and Europe actually planning to defend herself without America. I would call that a brilliant win, win for America, Europe and NATO. Unfortunate it takes such harsh & threatening language but a win is a win.
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