Youtube comments of (@premodernist_history).

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  31. You touch on two important points, each of which would be a good topic for a stand-alone video: (1) The Spanish didn't defeat the Aztecs single-handedly but were in coalition with a very large number of indigenous allies, and (2) The European conquest of the Americas was not total in the early modern period (e.g. the Maya). They would both be important correctives to widely held historical misconceptions. With regard to the second point, it is worth noting that the period in which Europeans and people of European descent finally did attain complete mastery of the Americas was in the late 19th century, in the wake of industrialization. Regarding the Aztecs and Incas, just to clarify -- I'm not saying that they fell simply because of disease. You and I seem to agree that European technology was not an important factor in their fall. I didn't mention the Spaniards' indigenous allies in Mexico in 1519-21 because I was making a wider point about the Americas in general. That said, disease did in fact play a role in the conquests of both the Aztecs and Incas. Tenochtitlan was hit by a smallpox outbreak prior to the final siege, and the Inca civil war you mentioned was precipitated by the Sapa Inca dying of smallpox. (Smallpox was one of the diseases inadvertently introduced from Europe.) Disease in Africa DID hold back the Europeans. They did not go into the interior of Africa until modern drugs started becoming available in the late 19th century. The modern pharmaceutical industry was made possible by industrialization.
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  43. I love this. Great explanation of the issues involved. A little off topic (because I don't want it to take away from your overall comment, which is awesome), I think your thoughts at the end about my France analogy support my point in an interesting way. I'm guessing you and I would probably agree that we COULD see the Ottomans as a continuation of the Roman empire, if we look at it from the Ottomans' point of view, recognizing that others at the time might well have disagreed with them. When you say republican France is in continuity with the ancien regime, "organic," "integral to the French identity," aren't you doing the same thing? We COULD see the French Republic that way, if we look at it from the republicans' point of view. Would we see it that way if looking from the monarchists' point of view? I'm not saying you're wrong, necessarily. But it seems you're adopting the republican narrative and assuming that opposing French narratives don't exist. It would be like taking the Ottoman definition of "Roman" at face value and ignoring the Byzantines who would have disagreed with them. To paraphrase the video, the French Republic happened, but to call it a continuation of pre-revolutionary France is an interpretation we project onto it. Maybe a mistake in my video was taking for granted my own interpretation of the French Republic (one of rupture rather than continuity with what came before) and not explaining what I meant or why that comparison makes sense to me. But anyway, thank you for summarizing your paper. I enjoyed reading it.
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  72. Hi, thank you for your kind words. The prejudice surrounding the video title that I was aiming at wasn't so much white-on-black racism as simply eurocentrism. I initially just found the question innately interesting, which is why I researched it. But then I reflected that we never ask this sort of question about Europe. We never ask, "Why did it take so long for Europeans to borrow paper and printing from Asia?" or "Why weren't their cities more like Southeast Asian cities?" There seems to be an implicit bias of regarding Europe as the default version of history against which the history of everywhere else is compared. Moreover, I don't think it's possible to address the question without interrogating that bias. Why would it even cross our minds to ask that question? It's because wheels were used in Europe. Why do we never ask why Europe didn't have a technology the Asians had? If I had only done the second part of the video, the video would have been incomplete. Regarding racism, As I recall I only reference racism at the very beginning when I say that Africans had other technologies so we can rule out their being unable to use technology. My sarcastic spiel in the middle about "Were Europeans unable to grasp camel tech" was to poke fun at the eurocentric trope that Europeans were the only dynamic civilization in world history. Granted, there is overlap between eurocentrism and white racism, but not entirely. I intentionally made it about eurocentrism in particular because that's more what I'm interested in. I don't think my choices with the video are really to blame for the backlash happening in the comments. This "anger" we're seeing now only started a few days ago when a white supremacist tweeted about the video. Then it started making rounds on the alt-right grapevine. This isn't average white people being offended. This is identitarian cultists whistling at each other and shitposting for giggles.
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  98. @Adam Shepherd You seem to be thinking about this from the standpoint of a construction tradesman. That would have been a rare occupation in sub-Saharan Africa before modern times. Remember, almost everyone was a subsistence farmer or gatherer. They didn't specialize in the building trades. It isn't a matter of a ruler forcing people to work inefficiently. It's a matter of subsistence farmers who occasionally, as a side project, put up a building. Laborers on building sites did exist in areas with higher population densities, i.e. areas with cities. Those areas were the Mediterranean region, the Middle East, India, Southeast Asia, and East Asia. Areas of low population density, like Siberia, Australia, sub-Saharan Africa, the far north of Europe, and most of the Americas, did not have regular construction projects because populations were extremely low and spread out, and what building they did do was occasional and ad hoc. What you said about the quality of the ground applies too. Wheelbarrows make sense when the land's been graded -- in the medieval world that would be cities (again, found only in certain regions) or in rural areas where wheeled traffic is already prevalent. An African farmer who decides to design a wheel-and-axle to ease his work will also have to invest the time and effort in grading the paths that his new ad-hoc wheelbarrow will travel on. Or he can take the path of least resistance and just pick the load up and carry it. It wasn't that Africans (or any of these other people, e.g. Siberians, Laplanders, Eskimos) rejected work multipliers. It's more that they could get by with what they had. They weren't full-time construction workers, so we shouldn't expect them to think like one. The way construction work is done now is a product of the Industrial Revolution and the rise of the modern capitalist economy. Now we expect construction to be happening constantly, and if an area doesn't have a lot of new construction, we say it's dying. That mindset is part of modern industrial capitalism and doesn't apply to the preindustrial world. About the similarity with medieval Europe -- yes, in some ways the lifestyle of a medieval European farmer was very similar in broad strokes to that of a medieval African farmer. The standard of living was similar too. When the Portuguese visited the western coast of Africa in the 1400s, they described big, flourishing, rich kingdoms with big boats and powerful armies. But Europeans who visited those same areas in the late 1600s and 1700s described poor, ragtag kingdoms (which they were now calling "chiefdoms" and "tribes") with puny boats. Africa hadn't changed. Europe had. The Portuguese of the 1400s, as medieval Europeans, saw societies equivalent to their own. The Europeans of the 1700s lived in a much more complex and wealthy society, and therefore saw big gaps between their own lifestyles and the lifestyles of their African contemporaries.
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  123. Did you watch the video? I didn't say that Africans used waterways (although they in fact did). Africa does have inland navigable waterways. You might be thinking of the fact that African rivers hit falls and rapids shortly before reaching the sea, making them useless for sailing INTO Africa from the ocean. But there were trade routes along rivers within Africa. When away from rivers, Africans used pack animals or, in tsetse areas, human porterage. I don't believe that "all human civilization must be equal" and I said no such thing in the video. My not-so-silent premise was that all humans are capable of creating and using technology. There is abundant empirical evidence that Africans did. The "real answer" you so coyly refer to is not a real answer, because it can easily be turned around against Europeans. (You would know that if you watched the video.) There are many technologies that were in use in Asia for centuries before they were introduced into Europe. The abacus was used in Mesopotamia 2,000 years before it was used in Europe. The Chinese were using magnetic compasses 1,000 years before Europeans were. Paper and printing were in use centuries before, and literacy rates in China and Japan in the late Middle Ages were higher than in Europe. The Iron Age began in the Near East in 1200 BC, but it took 300 years after that for Italians to start working with it and 700 years for Scandinavians. What took them so long? Were they stupid? I don't think Europeans were stupid. But by your logic, you have no choice but to conclude that they were.
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  188. Hi, thanks for your comment! It's misleading that the Wikipedia editor put three sources because they aren't three independent, corroborating sources. The first one (Reference 38, Ho 1970) doesn't make any claims about Mongol-caused fatalities. As its title suggests, it just gives population figures for China before the Mongols. But it is cited in the second source (Reference 39, McEvedy 1978). And the third source (Reference 40, Coleman 2005, cited in Wikipedia as Graziella Caselli, etc.) cites McEvedy 1978. So it's one source: McEvedy 1978. McEvedy 1978 is the book I was referring to in the video when I said, "There's a book from the '70s that claims that North China's population dropped 75% due to death and displacement." He also claims that the Mongols massacred 35 million people in China. McEvedy is as far back as I've been able to trace this idea so far. He's basing this on reported census figures in China. That by itself is not enough evidence to say confidently that the Mongols killed that many people. Moreover, his discussion of the Mongol wars and their motivations is quite inaccurate. He was not a trained historian, definitely not a Mongol specialist, and apparently relied on pop culture for his information about the Mongol empire. Also, the sentence these references are attached to reads, "it is possible that between 20 and 57 million people were killed between 1206 and 1405 during the various campaigns of Genghis Khan, Kublai Khan, and Timur." I might have missed it, but I don't believe any of the sources directly say this. Maybe the Wikipedia editor collated figures from different parts of one or more of the sources. (And if so, does that count as original research per Wikipedia rules?)
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  273.  @monarchofthesea9395  I thought the emperors of Trebizond claimed to be the legitimate rulers of Constantinople, but I just looked it up and apparently Emperor John II renounced the claim to Constantinople in 1282. I wonder if they still called themselves Romans though. If so, then 1461 would still count, I think. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the Ottoman claim. They occupied the same territory that the Eastern Roman Empire did, with the same capital. They were recognized as the legitimate Roman emperors by the Patriarchs of Constantinople. Sure, they seized control through military conquest, but then so did a lot of previous Byzantine emperors. Many new Byzantine dynasties were started by a general seizing Constantinople (sometimes through a violent sack, e.g. the Komnenids) and taking the throne by force. Maybe the chief argument against the Ottoman claim is that they were Muslim instead of Christian. But that's a matter of one's personal definition of Roman-ness. Is Christianity an intrinsic part of Roman identity? Medieval Byzantines would have said yes, but I can imagine other Romans in other periods not necessarily agreeing. If the Ottomans had been Christian, I strongly suspect modern historians would see them as one more in a long line of Byzantine dynasties. As for the Russian claim, I know less about it, but as far as I know that was more a notion of spiritual successor. One defines the Roman empire as the bastion of the Christian faith. With the fall of Constantinople, Moscow is now the bastion of the Faith, ergo Moscow is the third Rome. I could be getting that wrong though. I'll need to do more research.
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  275. Thanks! As a starting point, I'd look at this article on Wikipedia. It includes charts that summarize the various estimates, broken down by region: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimates_of_historical_world_population I'd also recommend learning about the demographic transition. That's basically the mechanism by which we quintupled our population in a century (stage 2 especially -- lowering death rates and high birth rates). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_transition The site Our World in Data has lots of really awesome graphs and visualizations: https://ourworldindata.org/world-population-growth I used their graphs in my video. Their historical estimates are actually a little higher than some others. If you look closely in the section of my video with all the graphs, the numbers I say don't always match with the numbers on the graph. That's why. I like these two publications for an overview of historical demography: 1. United Nations, The Determinants and Consequences of Population Trends, 1973 https://archive.org/details/UN1973TheDeterminantsAndConsequencesOfPopulationTrends 2. John D. Durand, Historical Estimates of World Population: An Evaluation, 1974 https://repository.upenn.edu/psc_penn_papers/9/ For the link between food supply and human population level: Russell Hopfenberg and David Pimentel, "Human Population Numbers as a Function of Food Supply," Environment, Development and Sustainability, Vol. 3, no. 1 (2001), pages 1-15 http://www.bioinfo.rpi.edu/bystrc/pub/pimentel.pdf
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  282.  @Jim777425  You say Osman declared jihad against the Romans. That's called the Ghazi Thesis, an old idea in Ottoman studies that Ottoman specialists today generally don't adhere to. The common view among specialists now (as far as I know) is that Osman was not motivated by religious zeal to spread Islam, and that he had Greek Christians as well as Turks among his followers. More generally, there was not a strict distinction between the two sides, where all the Byzantine forces were Greek-speaking Christians and all the Ottoman forces were Turkish-speaking Muslims. There was a mix on both sides. Late Byzantine history includes lots of Turks participating in the Byzantine military (turcopoles) and of Ottomans fighting as allies alongside one side or the other of Byzantine civil wars. Regarding ethnicity, countries in Antiquity and the Middle Ages didn't define their country according to ethnicity. That's generally a modern practice, less than 250 years old. For the Byzantines, what made you Roman was your culture and religion. Anyone from any (what we would call) ethnicity could be Roman provided they acted like a Roman and believed like a Roman. If the Ottomans had adopted Orthodox Christianity, then the Romans (Greeks) would have shrugged and acknowledged them as the next Roman dynasty. As a matter of fact, many of them did shrug and accept them, but that was often accompanied by conversion. The population of Turkey today is genetically largely the same as it was 600 years ago (albeit with some Turkic admixture). We only call them Turks because their ancestors converted to Islam rather than remain Christian.
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  331.  @joerogue231  This is a great list. Very interesting putting the Achaemenids first. My instinct would have been to put the Mongols first, but after seeing your list I'm not sure. In the period of the Achaemenids, the next biggest countries were (I'm guessing) some of the Warring States in China (Chu? Yue?), Magadha in India and the Carthaginians in the Mediterranean. A case could possibly be made for the Persians being far beyond them in power. A case could also be made for ranking Alexander's empire first or second. The trouble with ancient dynasties is we usually have so little economic and military data to go on. Where would you put the Umayyads and Abbasids? I'd probably put them near the top, around 4th or 5th place. I'd rank the Buyids and Samanids lower than you have them. Last place should be the Hotak, I think, and then Zand maybe next to last. Or the other way around. The Pahlavi should be higher. I think their military was considered the largest in the Middle East at the time, and with lots of American hardware. I'd probably rank them somewhere between 15 and 20. Now, if you changed the parameters and just compare the power of each dynasty directly with each other, then the Pahlavi would be on top by far because their tanks and fighter jets could blow away every other dynasty's military. The Achaemenids wouldn't stand a chance. I don't think I could actually pull off a proper ranking though. I'd second guess myself too much. Do the Kwarezmians go above or below the Seljuks? That sort of thing. I'd just keep rearranging them forever. That said, after some thought I think the top of the list would be (1) Mongols, (2) Alexander, (3) Achaemenids, (4) Abbasids, (5) Umayyads, (6) Sasanians. (The Parthians could maybe be in the top 6, but we know so little about them.) After that it gets hard to choose.
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  413.  @SomasAcademy  In the video I was talking about livestock that could be used for traction. I only said "livestock" at 10:25 but from context I hope it's clear I was talking about livestock that can pull carts. I had a thesis to communicate regarding the use of the wheel. It would have been extraneous to the video for me to talk about small livestock. Medieval Ghana was in the Sahel. I didn't talk about that region at all in the video. That has its own unique circumstances with regard to the question of wheeled transport, and I wanted to keep things simple. Just to clarify, I didn't say that resistant breeds originated recently, only that their spread southward is recent. My source for this is Paul Starkey, Emmanuel Mwenya, and John Stares, Improving Animal Traction Technology: Proceedings of the First Workshop of the Animal Traction Network for Eastern and Southern Africa (ATNESA) Held 18–23 January 1992, Lusaka, Zambia (Wageningen, The Netherlands, 1994). On page 73 it says that trypanotolerant cattle are found in the northern part of the West African forest areas (e.g. southern Senegal, northern Cote d'Ivoire, northern Benin) and are used for plowing (doesn't mention traction), but in the coastal areas "there are very few cattle and no donkeys." It also says on the next page, "The southern limits of the trypanotolerant cattle, the zebu cattle, and donkeys seem to be extending southward year by year. ... Cattle are increasingly being brought into the coastal area, and animal traction is steadily spreading southward in most countries in West Africa." The article "Genetic Resistance to African Trypanosomiasis" that you mentioned doesn't address the original range of trypanotolerant cattle or whether they can pull carts, but it does say that the resistance of N'Dama drops as exposure to tsetse challenge increases (p. 313). Maybe that could explain why they were restricted to the northern band of the West African forest zone (assuming Starkey is correct that they were)? The other article you mentioned, "Unraveling Admixture, Inbreeding, and Recent Selection Signatures," seems to say that only dwarf breeds of West African Shorthorn are found in coastal areas. It says the smallest, the Lagune breed, reaches 93 cm at the withers. That's one yard. Holy cow that's small. Pending further information about them, I'm going to tentatively go with the assumption that they couldn't be used for traction. It seems like perhaps there was some miscommunication among the three of us (including your professor). My source, Starkey, was talking specifically about cattle for traction, and that was what I was interested in for the video. Perhaps your professor thought I was talking about all livestock, including dwarf cattle unfit for traction.
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  462. Naming nowadays is similar, but with some modifications. As I understand it, the kunya is always treated as a nickname. Someone will be called that, but they wouldn't write it on a form. In the Egypt/Levant area, people's names tend to be [name] [father's name] [grandfather's name] with no ibn in between, e.g. Tariq Abd al-Razzaq Muhammad, where Muhammad is the grandfather's given name. A lot of people also seem to have nisbas, but not everyone. On the Arabian peninsula, naming is more conservative (in my understanding). When Arabs travel to the West and have to fill out forms, they'll often use their grandfather's name as their "last name" for legal purposes, or they might use a nisba. You can see an example of a modern Arab's name in Yasser Arafat. His complete name on Wikipedia is Mohammed Abdel Rahman Abdel Raouf Arafat al-Qudwa al-Husseini. Abdel Rahman is his father and Abdel Raouf is his grandfather. On the other hand, Mahmoud Abbas is just "Mahmud Rida Abbas," with no nisba (based on the Arabic Wikipedia). All that said, I don't really understand modern naming customs because there seems to be a lot of variation. Also, a lot of names are hard for me to parse. For example the Egyptian author Taha Husayn. His full name according to the Arabic Wikipedia is Taha Husayn Ali ibn Sulama. I would think Husayn was his father's name and Ali was his grandfather's, but then what's the "ibn Salama"? I would assume, since Ali would have been born in the mid-19th century, that "Ali ibn Salama" was his name. But I'm not certain. Thank you for the kind words. About pronunciation, that reminds me of an old SNL skit where they made fun of U.S. journalists who pronounce Latin American placenames with a self-consciously exaggerated Spanish accent. I think about that sometimes when I'm using Arabic terminology.
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  588. My understanding is that the Ottoman dynasty was fine with people carrying on the old Byzantine customs (with some exceptions, like no more religious processions or other public displays of Christianity), but the dynasty itself did not assimilate to Byzantine culture. There must have been some cultural mixing in the dynastic family given just how many former Byzantines there were knocking about (including some of the sultans' mothers). But I get the impression the Ottoman sultans treated the title "Caesar of Rome" as a piece of property they had inherited from the former owners of the city, rather than something they actually took to heart. Except Mehmet II -- he seemed to really dig the whole Roman thing. The way I think of it (though I'm not an expert on either the Ottomans or the British, so take this with a grain of salt) is like this: Charles is the Lord of Mann, but that doesn't make the people of the UK Manx. The Roman empire became a component of the Ottoman empire. The Ottoman sultan was Caesar of Rome vis-a-vis his Greek Orthodox subjects (to the extent they cared about such a title), whereas he had different titles vis-a-vis other subjects. The difference with the Isle of Mann was that the Roman empire wasn't a geographic section of the Ottoman empire. It was more like, those subjects whose allegiance had been to the Byzantine emperors, wherever they were in Ottoman territory, were the sultan's Rum subjects. The people of Egypt or Iraq, or indeed most Muslims in Anatolia and Greece, didn't care about Byzantine legitimacy so they ignored the sultan's title of caesar and weren't called Rum. To answer your last question, your hypothetical person/country could call themselves Roman. Whether others would accept them as Roman would depend on their own expectations of what a Roman is supposed to be.
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