Comments by "" (@RedXlV) on "Drachinifel"
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Another suggestion I've seen is that the "Saints" would've been the names assigned to the N3 battleships, and that the G3 battlecruisers would've been named Invincible, Inflexible, Indomitable, and Indefatigable.
At any rate, if the Washington Naval Treaty had never happened, I strongly suspect that the G3 and N3 designs would've been been revised before construction to place the third turret forward of the bridge, as was actually done with the Nelson-class. That all-forward layout was universal to the different designs considered for the Nelsons, both the O3 design that was actually adopted and the F2 and F3 treaty-compliant battlecruisers (with 3x2 or 3x3 15" guns) that were considered.
Incidentally, I consider the F3 to be something of a masterpiece of capital ship design. On a displacement of only 35000 tons it would've had armor close to that of the much later 45000 ton Iowa-class battleships, and a design speed of 29 knots. And given the broad similarities to the Nelsons, I'm fairly confident it would've exceeded that design speed. Even with engines in need of an overhaul, Rodney was able to make 25 knots (design speed was only 23) in the rush to intercept Bismarck.
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Regarding Tiger vs Scharnhorst and Gneisenau, the reason for Admiral Lütjens refusing to engage Convoy HX 106 because it was escorted by Ramilles wasn't that he doubted his ships' ability to take Ramilles. It was that he was under very strict orders from Hitler not to engage capital ships at all. The same would've applied to Tiger.
Had Lütjens defied those orders and tried to fight Ramilles, even given the inferior guns on his ships I suspect that he would've won that engagement. He did after all outnumber Ramilles 2 to 1, and his ships were 11 knots faster and also better armored.
Thus, I disagree with the assessment that Tiger would've had less utility than an R-class early in the war. Even if she had a very limited refit, her speed would've allowed her to be used in duties other than just convoy escort. And Revenge herself did little of any importance during WW2, so discarding her to keep Tiger (or keeping her as the training ship instead of Iron Duke) would've been no big loss.
And in terms of the logistics of keeping the BL 13.5-inch Mk V gun in service for a single ship? That would be somewhat of an issue, but remember that those guns were still in use as land-based artillery in railway mounts as well. Three of them were brought to Dover as part of the battery of cross-channel guns. So it's not as if Britain discarded their stores of shells and charges for guns of that caliber. And if Tiger's refit came in the late 1930s, it's possible that she could've had her 13.5-inch guns replaced with the same BL 14-inch Mk VII used on King George V. IIRC, those guns were designed so that they could work with the turrets, cradles, and shell hoists of the 13.5-inch Mk V, because initially there was consideration of using Iron Duke's remaining turrets to test-fire the new gun design.
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Many of the British destroyer classes were so closely related that it's a matter of interpretation how many classes they actually had. For example, are the J/K/Ns three classes of 8 ships each or just one class of 24 ships, given that they were for all practical purposes identical?
At any rate, Britain's desperate need for more destroyers resulted in the 112 ships of the War Emergency Programme, which were smaller and less capable than the Tribals, J/K/Ns, and L/Ms. They could be considered anywhere from one to 14 classes depending on how you define it, since they all used the same basic hull design but were constantly improved during construction. It wasn't until the Battle-class (only one of which was completed in time to actually fight in WW2; an additional 25 were built and 18 were cancelled and scrapped partially built) that Britain went back to full-sized fleet destroyers.
The US, on the other hand, had the industrial capacity to meet its needs by just spamming out Fletchers, followed by Sumners and Gearings rather than reverting smaller designs. The British "emergency" scaled-down destroyers, like I said, added up to 112 ships. The Fletcher-class? 175 ships.
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