Comments by "Zrips" (@Zripas) on "Johnny Harris"
channel.
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@Gottum365
Ironically enough you are complaining about some one calling flat earthers dumb and ignorant while you ended with a comment about NASA and their videos... Some bad news for you here, first of all, NASA is 100% irrelevant to the shape of earth, second, there are dozens of space agencies across entire world and not only NASA, third, i can bet you will fail to present a method how you determined that photo/video X is fake and photo/video Y is not.
To make as simple argument here for earth being a globe will give you really simple example: sun. You have 4 things about it which matches globe model 100% and doesn't match flat one entirely.
1. Moves at constant speed (yes, earth rotates and sun doesn't really move across the sky, but you get the point here)
2. Doesn't change perceived size across the day
3. Moves in a straight line
4. Sunset/sunrise
All 4 things are basic observations anyone can perform from their backyard with 1 buck solar filer and some spare time, doesn't even require any math, simple basic observation with rudimentary knowledge of geometry.
Forget NASA, forget any information provided by anyone, address this basic observation anyone can do and if you can actually explain ALL 4 of those and how could this be possible on a flat earth, then we can move to more complex things.
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@yestervue4697
"you can track nearly anything you put your mind and attention to"
Well yea, you could, but then there is all this legal side of your actions...
"It takes the dedication of an investigative journalist"
Being a journalist doesn't make you correct by default.
"But the worst thing in the world to do is just accept blindly what you are told without ever questioning things."
I have said this exact thing to flat earthers over and over again... So we agree on this one.
"Show me where researching that is illegal?"
You want to claim that Johny gets funding from government, do you seriously want to claim that this funding is public? If its public then you should be able to present evidence for it without any trouble. Another option would be that its not a public information, which means you used some methods to get this private information which would be, most likely, illegal. And third option would be that you are full of shit and Johnny is not funded by government and you simply - just accept blindly what you are told without ever questioning things.
"I have been doing investigative journalism for years"
You seam to be terrible at getting correct answer tho, so sad to say this, but you wasted years of your time on a thing you are bad at... Get new hobby.
"I am well versed in my "arguments'...sorry"
Atleast you put it into quotation marks. Those are not arguments, those are empty baseless assertions.
" I am over a half-century old..."
Congrats...
"here I am free never arrested or charged..."
Congrats?... I mean, you can get away with murder if you smart enough... Does that change anything?...
"How do you think people make these channels?"
Simply: Create account, post a video and you are done. have you ever investigated what it takes to create one?
All this is quite out of topic, as you cant prove that Johnny lied here or that he is a fraud, that claim got dismissed. But like seriously, are you one of those who thinks that earth is flat or that it is normal shaped, spherical?
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"Well, first of all, kids are brainwashed and indoctrinated in schools."
Maybe if you are in religious school.
"Third, all of you who see this comment have never been to the moon yet you sit there and criticize flat earther's belief."
By this logic Australia is not real because you never been there... You dont need to go to moon to know that earth is spherical...
"You too believe Nasa has been to the moon"
No reason not to believe and NASA is 100% irrelevant to this topic anyways.
"You too believe the earth is a sphere"
Yes, because its a provable fact from reality which can be done by anyone with IQ above average.
"You too BELIEVE everything you have BEEN TOLD is real"
No, I don't. But thanks for creating this dishonest straw man.
"You too have believe in just another BELIEF but that doesn't make it a fact"
Correct, evidence can make it a fact, this is why earth being a globe is a fact and not some random belief.
"Know your facts from beliefs."
Correct, this is why flat earth claim gets dismissed entirely as it nots supported by evidence or facts or basic logic.
"Lastly, you do not know more than the same person who believe the earth is flat."
This is definitely false. I'm yet to meet flat earther who understands basic geometry. I would like to see research in how smart flat earthers are, but from what i have seen, not that much... So no, they are not on same level and I know allot more than they do.
"You think you do because you are part of the mass and the mass believe the same thing"
No, i know that earth is a sphere independent how many believes that.
" So you are confident the earth is a sphere even though you have never been to the moon"
So you are confident Australia is real even though you have never been there
"You are just another sheep and too stubborn to accept someone's else belief"
Stupid beliefs should not be accepted, unless you want to be stupid, but that would be stupid by itself, so you would have achieved your goal already.
"Your belief is right and others are wrong"
Yes, when you can demonstrate that you are correct, then you are correct and person with opposite claim will be wrong. Welcome to reality.
"And when a flat earther gives his opinion about the shape of the earth, you laugh and call him stupid."
Because he is. If you have stupid opinion, then its just stupid. How would you react if i said that earth is in shape of unicorn because my drawing book said so? Would that be smartest thing you ever heard? How would you react to claim like that?
"Oh wait, that is too much work and NASA is already doing that for you and televising for the sheep."
You do know that each trip to moon (man made) costs over one billion bucks? Do you seriously expect a bus to moon for simpletons like you just to show that earth is not a flat pancake? You already cry that NASA gets to much money, yet you cry when you cant go to moon...
And just FYI, earth shape can be confirmed from your backyard with like 1 dollar solar filter and some spare time. Due to this fact, all of your childish objections are just childish, at best. But in general, those are just stupid. And before you get insulted, check definition of "stupid".
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@ST8URCASE
You still failing to see bigger picture here... If you had a flat earther who lives alone in woods and never interacts with anyone else, nobody will care, no one. Issue is that people live in societies and your beliefs will effect your actions. Having conspiratory beliefs will more likely lead you to another ones. After all, flat earthers already proved to have broken method in determining what is the correct answer and which source they should trust. One conspiracy can lead to another one and on and on and on. Issue is not with their beliefs, issue is with what they will do with those. After all, antivaxers is an issue, flat earthers is smaller issue, but still an issue, its basic failure of education system and leaving it like this will not get you anywhere.
have you seen facebook or twitter or any other social media platform where people will post some random false statements which will create hate towards particular group just because people who read those posts never fact checked? yes those, those are the same category of people like flat earthers, never fact checking basic reality and believing anything they see on internet just because some one said so. This needs to be fixed.
And to end this, you seam to be part of the issue... You only see what's in front of your nose, which is fine for short term, but will cause quite a few issues in long one. But well, you do you.
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"my comments have been deleted, why?"
To many links and looks more like a spam or advertisement then actual comment?
"Why didn't science teach that it wobbles from the beginning?"
Learn to walk before you try to run.
" the earth curvature for 1 mile is 0.666(9) ft."
That produces parabola and not spherical one... Might work for short distances, but its just that... And it doesn't even include observers altitude or object altitude or its size or something. Well, basically, useless number.
"JPL was created by Jack Parsons who was a known occultist, who practiced sex magick in the deserts."
Its called: Ad hominem attack logical fallacy
"Nikolas Tesla once said"
And bob from apartment 3a once said: Flat earthers are full of crap.
Who should we believe?
"Speaking of the moon, it is now in our earths atmosphere according to contemporary science"
It its, speaking loosely. There are no defined boundaries for earths atmosphere to simply end. As some atmospheric particles from earth have been found beyond moon it was determined that there are some of those dragging along, in general, its a vacuum, on general scale, its a perfect vacuum, but there are still some particles from earths atmosphere due to gravity and shit.
Doesn't really change anything... Sun could be in earths "atmosphere", earth would still be a globe...
"It takes great faith to believe nothing created everything"
Who believes that? You?
" to believe a loving Creator"
That guy who kills for shits and giggles?
"This is not an argument"
We know... This is why no one takes you seriously.
"I have chosen to believe the Biblical narrative."
And you just, ironically, said this "Most of this world have chosen to believe the occultic explanation of their reality" och that sweet sweet irony with flat earthers and theists...
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@cheelong72
"any explanation but rather ridicule the ideas and facts mentioned."
Its not a fact if its only your opinion.
"So I won't be taking you seriously."
Nether i'm taking you seriously, so all good.
"You also forgot to ridicule the fact that all the mainstream scientists being occultsts"
Sometimes i tend to skip extremely batshit crazy things, maybe i should not... But thanks for your opinion.
"And the fact that NASA was created by more occultists."
Even if that was true, which is not, earth would still be a globe as NASA is 100% irrelevant here.
"Obviously you haven't even opened the Bible to read it."
Have you? By bible alone god killed over 2million people, not because he needed, but because he could. Lets takes basic story about global flood, which dint even happen, god supposedly killed everyone on planet instead of simply ether killing only humans or simply changing bad people into good ones because he has this power, so he killed for shits and giggles. Was was the point in killing everyone if there is no one to tell the story that it happen besides some random one single family?
"And you regurgitate gossip you've heard that you want to believe"
Well one of us is clearly speaks from personal experience here.
"My conclusion is you act exactly as Satan has programmed you"
And you just said "And you regurgitate gossip you've heard that you want to believe" och that irony...
"You have been initiated into an occultic belief system but are not intelligent enough to know that you have been nor manly enough to accept it."
Now read this and try to realize that this applies to you.
"it seem you don't even know who Nikolas Tesla is."
I know who he was, I don't give a fuck what he said. Its basic argument from authority fallacy.
"He is the man who invented almost everything you use today"
That's false. Did he invented smartphones? Nope. Did he invented my car? Nope. Did he invented PC? Nope... I have quite a long list he dint invented, so you clearly are wrong here. But even if he was this magical man who invented 100% of everything i use, so what? Doesn't change anything.
"So he is not just an average Bob the flat earther living next door."
His word is worth same as Bob's, some ones personal opinion is just opinion independent how smart or how many things they invented. You would known this if you ever invested time in logical fallacies...
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@lilymaul3880
So mush ignorance in one comment... Should i dare to address all of it?...
"The Government never lies!"
Government is made of people, people lie, doesn't mean government always lie. The fact that we are not talking about one individual here but about thousands which constantly changes should indicate how poor your argument is relating to government in general. US government failed to hide something relating to sex... You know that story... Which involved like 2 people... Yet it can hide something what literally involves millions of people across entire world... Riiiiiiight, sounds legit.
Skipping bunch of random nonsensical statements.
"Just like we obviously landed on the moon because NASA said we did"
You do know that we left shit over there? Like light reflectors which can and are used to measure exact distance from moon to earth?
"they are an extension of Government so they would never fake anything "
Why would they?
"we never ever used that technology or tried to attempt it again in 70 years!!!"
We landed on moon 12 times. Atleast when it comes to maned ones. Each trip costs over one billion bucks. ONE BILLION. Its with a B. Moon is a dry rock in space, we went there, investigated, found nothing, so why would we waste extra billions by going back there? And on top of this... We have probes, we can send rovers over there with fraction of the cost and with same results.
And on top of that, we are going back to moon soon enough, so you can scream at 4k 60fps video from moon that is fake or some stupid like that.
So yea, you wrote allot, said nothing. And most importantly dint answered to original question: Why is everyone lying about the shape of the Earth?
You failed with one thing you should have done... Cant say i'm surprised.
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"Freemasons aren't smart, they are good liars, just because they came up with equations doesn't mean they were right."
Correct, this is why earth is still a globe even if you have some one saying that their equations show otherwise. Like that nonsensical 8 inches per mile shit which is completely wrong and doesnt even include observers altitude into it... Yet you have flat earthers using it as proof that earth is not globe... So yea, i agree with you, tho its on different basis then you wanted.
"You're trusting the theories of man over the prophetically proven word of God,"
? You do realize that you are using ancient book written by man to go against today's proven scientific facts from reality? isint that ironic?
"psueduoscience isn't science"
True, this is why flat earth claim never got accepted into science, because its not science based claim.
"They may dress it up fancy so you think you can't ever understand it, it's not science, it's a big dupe. You're all going to wake up in this life or the next"
Its like you talk about flat earthers even tho you tried to apply that to normal people... Ironic, i know...
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So what you are saying is that ONE's scientists word overrules rest of them just because he said so?... Evolution is a fact, heck, even you just now admitted that evolution is a fact by saying that all humans have only 2 ancestors while we have wide range of humans on earth. All those races, all those different body builds, the fact that I'm lactose intolerant and majority of people are not, is the thing we call "evolution" which you want to deny for some weird reason.
And yes, every human shares same common ancestor's, as a group of them and not only 2, there is a thing called "viable minimal population" and for humans it's around 500. So no, it's not Adam and Eve, otherwise we would not have existed due to enormous incest it would have been which would have causes DNA degradation really quickly.
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@a_mustache_of_great_repute
Differently then religion science will not make 100% certainty claims, this is why in general you will have label as "Theory of gravity" and not "fact of gravity", that doesn't change the fact that this theory represents reality in best possible way. And evolution is a fact and a theory at same time. Earth is a globe, factually.
And as you like to go by definitions, then, definition for fact is: a thing that is known or proved to be true.
Scientific theories in most cases have been proven to be true, yes, most, not all, doesn't mean that those which got proven are not factual while still being called a theory.
And to make it even more clear, there is no possibility for evolution to be false because that one was proven to be a fact.
So yea... No idea why you tried to lower science and what you tried to achieve here, but well, you failed. Care to explain why you tried to do that?
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@a_mustache_of_great_repute
"I'm not trying to knock science down, I'm trying to lift it back up"
Science doesn't need a lift up, it never was as high as it is right now...
"We don't even KNOW what's at the bottom of the ocean or the core of our own planet, but we try to say we know what's in space?"
Yes?... And we do know what is the core of our planet and we do have quiet good idea what is on bottom of our oceans. Space in comparison to those two is easy to check, atleast if you are talking about space and not the entire universe...
"Its silly on the face of it, not to seek the answers, but to claim to have them. "
? So by your logic you cant even say that you have answers? So you basically saying that you know nothing?
"You think I'm attacking science and I'm just not"
i have no idea what your point here is in general as you are all over the place.
"All I'm saying is, when a scientist says a black hole is a point of super density, i say "could be". And as someone who loves science i don't understand how it can be anything except "could be". "
Ether you have no idea what science is or you seriously have no idea that argument from authority is a fallacy... Even if you can find scientist who says that black hole is super density, that doesn't mean that science as a whole says that. And your personal opinion that it could be, well, cool, you have your opinion, but that super density is actually supported by evidence and not some fuzzy feelings in your balls.
"Granted, i do have my doubts about macroevolution"
So another thing you have no knowledge about then, evolution. Micro and macro evolution have only ONE difference: time scale. To put it in analogy, micro is one second and macro is one year. So for you to say that seconds exist but it will never end up as a year is just silly and ignorant, at best.
"No stages with half formed limbs on their way in or out"
personal ignorance is not evidence for anything. Mudskipper, fish which can live on land and "walk" on its fins. You literally have transitional form which is alive today and you complain that you can see any on fossil records... C'mon...
"I'm saying i have enough doubt that i can't call it fact"
And? Reality is not driven by your personal opinion. You are literally commenting under the video which talks about people who thinks that earth is flat... So its clearly a fact that some ones personal opinion doesn't determine reality.
"as long as their are such massive gaps in the fossil record"
Generic creationist excuse... "Look there is a gap between those 2" we find fossil fitting in that gap "look, there are 2 gaps with missing links"... your personal ignorance is not evidence for anything.
"is why do you insist on being so defensive of scientists when you claim to be defensive of science?"
I'm not defensive towards scientists, as i'm not you i will not go with argument from authority, what i'm advocating here is fact based reality basing your reality on all the evidence we have to day and not simply say "Well i cant understand this so it must be false. That's how we got religions and that's why we had dark ages. Science is best current method in determining what is true or most likely to be true, if you can come up with better method, go for it, until then you have nothing to complain here.
"A scientist should be able to hear "you could be wrong" and say "could be"."
Not on factual reality. Could you be wrong about shape of earth? Could it be concave? Could it be in a shape of unicorn? How many laws of physics you would need to break to get those answers as reality? Is it a fact that earth is globe? Should we be open minded and say "it could be a unicorn"?
"and that I'm attacking science itself when that is plainly not the case"
You are trying to discredit or atleast lower scientific stance by exposing your ignorance on basic things, nothing more.
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@chris73brown
"Basic observation of the sun shows goes from one end to the other over flat land"
Will list 4 things about sun which matches 100% to globe model and missmatch 100% flat one:
1. Sun moves at constant speed. I know that sun isint moving, but earth rotates, but you got idea. Due to flat earth model sun should get closer until noon, so perceived speed should change, but its not
2. Sun doesnt change perceived size. On flat earth model sun gets closer until noon and further away after that, so on flat earth model it should change size.
3. Sun moves in a straight line. On flat earth model sun circles around, which is not what we observe in reality.
4. Sunset/sunrise. On flat earth model sun always remains above surface which would prevent it from ever going under the horizon.
Those are 4 basic things about sun which disproves flat earth. Not even talking about dozens of others things, with actual calculations and tests. But this is my go to due to its simplicity, but well, as flat earthers has 0 understand how geometry works, even this flies over their heads.
" Take note: U came back ruding me after l was just giving a summary from both sides and not ruding noone so...
"
Like I said, you personal ignorance isint evidence for anything. Just because you cant understand why earth is a globe and trying to place both sides on same level, will not make it so. Flat earth claim is just empty assertion, globe is proven fact. Those cant be compared by any reasonable person.
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@chrisross4898
"Have you noticed how you can talk of only fiction characters."
Like god?
"Enoch was no fiction character."
Who cares? If you will have some generic human spiting out some random stuff, who cares?
"He walk with God"
Fictional character?
"Enoch walked with God"
Say who? Enoch? So if i say that i walked with Harry Potter, does that mean i did?
"In the book of enoch, there are portals that the sun and moon go thru, read it for yourself . "
As much i would like to read some fantasy books, that one doesn't seam to be attractive...
"the reason why the us education system is failing, cuz all the numbers are wrong"
What? What numbers? What?...
"with more science, we as a people are getting dumber."
Nope, with more science we are getting smarter. We have more knowledge then ever before, people in schools learn more and more complex things then ever before, atleast in normal countries.
"Science and video is so far gone, people cant tell the difference between reality and fiction."
This is why we still have religions and people talking about gods...
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@chrisross4898
"why is God fiction?"
Definition of fiction: literature in the form of prose, especially novels, that describes imaginary events and people.
AS you have your book talking about some imaginary events and people, its a fiction. God is as real as harry potter, yet you would straight away say that this one is fiction, while both are written by man about some wizards with some real places and real events mixed in them and supported by same amount of evidence: none.
Why is that?
"In every story of the earth, it talks of a flood."
Correct... Annual flood is a thing... You know that time of the year when snow melts and you get a flood?... Yea... That type...
"Everyone knows this story. How are they fiction? Cuz you say so?"
Knows what? That flood happens on regular basis? Well that part is not a fictional, its natural thing quite a big part of the world experiencing every single year...
"You and scientists are always making shit up!!!"
Yea, we and those smart bastards... What could they know... Pfff... Its not like they are the smart ones here... Pfff.....
"If you unplugg yourself from the matrix, we can build a better world"
I mean, it seams that you are trying to troll here, maybe not, but in any case, its just sad, troll or not, its just sad to see people like you...
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@Peterpan2355
"If gravity pulls everything straight down to the centre of Earth and Earth is a ball then all building CAN NOT be straight"
? In comparison to what? From whose point of view? Every single building you see is leaning from you by certain amount, while 69 miles for one degree lean FROM YOU is literally undetectable without special setup and special gear. You cant even notice 1 degree lean to the side, how the hell do you expect to notice 1 degree lean from you?
Instead of repeating what some one who has no idea what perspective is, create basic 3d model on any 3d software, you can create that to the scale, place couple cubes to simulate buildings and try to notice any lean from the point of some one on spheres surface...
This is what i'm talking about, ether you have no idea what geometry and perspective is or you have some understanding but you blindly repeating some nonsensical claims some one make while never fact checking them.... Which one it is?
"As for My Perspective he does not have an account that you can donate money to like most you tubers."
And how is that relevant to anything? And quite few youtubers gets payment from adds and not from donations. Tho i still have no idea why you even mentioned that.
" Yeah The Sunlight Reflects on the water towards peoples feet, If you can't understand that, what the what from where to when what can you understand?"
i dont understand what you are trying to say here, i have good understanding of perspective, geometry and light reflections.
How is sun reflecting from water is relevant here? What is your point here? Yes, sun light reflects from reflective surfaces... So what?
"If there was 24 hours sunlight in Britain where I live I would not be a flat Earther"
? I just assume that you are an actual troll here. Will stick with my original look at your comment.
Do you seriously made a claim that on sphere sun should be visible 24/7? Do you even know what sphere is? Maybe you are mixing flat and globe models here, because you literally arguing points which apply to opposite models then you say. On flat earth model (while there isint even one actual which doesn't contradict reality) sun should be visible 24/7 and on a globe it should be visible only at some times depending on your latitude
" If I am getting duped by anyone it is you"
And like 98% of humanity... Who could known that smartest people on earth are actually wrong because one person named "perspective" is correct because he said so... Riiiiiiight.
" I would gladly become a globe believer If only I could find one piece of evidence to believe in it"
Sorry, but you will not find that. Not because there is none, there are more then needed. But because you will not understand it. Sorry to say this, but you are too ignorant to have any say about this topic. Face reality, you need to real basic things about reality before you have conversation about anything what is as complex as basic geometry... Yes, basic geometry is to complicated for you... Yet you are here claiming to be correct because reasons... Damn...
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@yestervue4697
So you are flat earther after all... Ok, as we established that thing, you want proof that earth is a globe? Not a problem, tho i will remind you that even if we could not prove that earth is a globe that would NOT prove that earth is a flat.
So, proof, we will start from really simple ones, no math required, no expensive equipment required, no traveling required. 4 thing about sun and its behavior.
1. Sun moves (well, technically earth rotates and not that sun moves, but lets avoid that complication, for now) in a straight line across the sky. This matches 100% to globe and fails 100% on flat one
2. Sun doesn't change perceived size through entire day. This matches 100% to globe and fails 100% on flat one
3. Sun moves at constant speed. This matches 100% to globe and fails 100% on flat one
4. Sunset and sunrise. This matches 100% to globe and fails 100% on flat one
Those are basic 4 observations anyone with a solar filter and some camera can perform from their backyard. None of those real life observations matches any proposed flat earth mode, while matching 100% to a globe one. Why is that? Why cant you even explain basic observations with your magical land claim?
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Texeira Correa
"centrifugal force is always accelerating, its constant acceleration"
? how is this relevant exactly? Centrifugal force created by earths rotation is something like 0.4% So why does it mater exactly?
" it’s in a container and magnets keep the plasma in place or you wouldn’t have that CHAMBER"
Right, just like gravity keeps atmosphere in place... you dint realized that? Don't you now? You have pretty much 1 to 1 comparison here: Plasma in vacuum held by a force in place with atmosphere on earth if held by gravity in place.
"and we’re not talking about plasma being held by magnets above the earth"
i know, but you asked about gas being surrounded by vacuum, yet you failed to understand that vacuum doesn't suck.
" then why is it that the vacuum of “space” doesn’t equalize the “atmosphere” into an equilibrium ?"
gravity?.
"Your saying there is no loss at all?"
there is, tiny portion, due to cosmic winds or something like that, i'm not really familiar with that particular topic, but there is tiny loss of atmosphere.
"If you look it up NASA"
DON'T CARE!
Why do you people think that bringing up NASA would prove/disprove anything? They are irrelevant!
"Lastly I’m just saying it’s more of a claim that you “know” where moving and you don’t feel centrifugal force at all"
And we dont, once again, you cant feel motion, this is FACT, then you have this "ENORMOUS" centrifugal force which is 0.4% of gravity... Tho funny enough you can even test that by weighting something on pole and on equator, it will be lighter on equator.
" I don’t have to prove anything to a keyboard warrior"
Then why the hell do you even made original comment? If you are not interested in defending your ridiculous claim, then why you even started it? i asked for simple proof, one flipping image from your magical 50k collection, yet you failed multiple times to provide it. Which only proves that you dont have any actual evidence, you simply came here to get some attention from people, nothing more.
"I didn’t come here to talk to Zrips unless your the creator of the vid in that case let’s talk, otherwise we can banter."
Its public forum, you make comment on a public forum... What the hell do you expect to see? its like complaining that people looked at you when you went outside to the street and started to scream that earth is flat while this "conversation" was pointed to some specific individual... Damn...
We both know that you dont have any evidence to present here, because if you did had, you already would have presented it. But you are here tap dancing, trying to disprove globe model, complaining that i'm not the right person and all that nonsense... Grow up...
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Texeira Correa
"plasma ima vacum chamber isn’t held in by gravity it’s electromagnetics"
Correct... Damn... you still failing to understand a point i made... You wanted to claim that gas cant be in vacuum, i provided example where it is because its been held by some force, in this case its electromagnetism, in case of earth we have gravity... Do you still not realize this or what?
"I know vacuums don’t suck"
Then why the hell you said that gas cant be near vacuum if vacuum doesn't suck?
"what I’m saying I just told that earth would lose its atmosphere if it was next to a vacuum without a physical barrier"
GRAVITY?
"hence you telling me it loses its atmosphere lol"
And it does... its not like we loose 5% every year... but it does loose some of it... Whats your problem here exactly?
"We’re do you think it all came from"
are you asking about origins of life on earth? or what?
"if it goes into space sure nuff no atmosphere"
Yea, you have no idea how exactly we loose, dont you now?... And you do realize that we have a way to refill atmosphere? Right? its not like we have defined amount of air...
"It doesn’t make any sense that the large vacuum of space isn’t enough for the air pressure and “gravity” to be equalized"
Why should it? You have GRAVITY which holds atmosphere "stuck" to earth... This prevents from gas equalizing with a vacuum... its basic physics 101 yet i have to explain this to you... Why?
"to be dispersed it quite literally doesn’t even equate to physics"
Riiiight, so every single scientist on the world is wrong because you failed to understand physics?.... Riiiight...
"Look up what happens when open a vacuum chamber what happens?"
Open here? On earth? Where you have huge air pressure? or in space where you have dont have outside pressure and you dont have large enough mass to hold it in place? Its one of those situations where i have to explain people basic physics instead of disproving their claims... Did you skipped school or what?
"SO GIMME PROOF!"
Of what? That earth is spherical? Ok, check out suns behavior, shatters flat earth model (do you even have one?) straight away, not even talking about other 100+ issues. And this is basic observation, no need to understand how vacuum works or believe in gravity, basic understanding of geometry would be enough...
"you need growing up because my message was quite literally put into reference to the author of the video"
if you cant even win argument against some random dude like me, how do you expect to win against some one who made video like this?
"and also can someone explain how I put a screenshot up on YouTube comments for this guy?"
imgur.com decent site where yo can place images for free and get short link to them, no need to create account or log in or anything like that, drag and drop, you get a link, you post it here, as i'm still waiting your BEST image proof that earth is flat...
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Texeira Correa
12 comments in and you still have no examples from your magical 50k image proof you claimed to have? Whats going on? Did you lied about that? Or you realized that all of those pictures you have are not evidence?
"has can’t be near a vacuum because it’s will meet disperse evenly into the vacuum because there is no physical barrier to stop no air pressure to attract a pressurized system"
One more time: Gravity.
"And second when your talking electromagnetism and then jump into gravity which is a farce I just can’t follow you there"
i know that you cant follow me here, this is why you think that earth is flat... Electromagnetism and gravity are both forces, different ones, but still effect matter in similar way. We even managed to counter gravity by applying electromagnetism on a frog...
"I believe there isn’t any gravity"
Who cares? Gravity is real, testable thing from reality. Cavendish experiment demonstrates that quite nicely.
"it doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist"
Flat earth doesn't exist because it doesn't exist. There you go, used your logic to debunk your argument entirely. Are we done now?
"Plasma being held in to place by a magnet inside a CONTAINER..."
? Seriously? You are joking?... Right? We have container because we cant have vacuum on a surface of earth without it... We could run fusion reactor in space without container, but that would be terribly impractical and would cost 10000x more to create one and test it... Nah, you must be internet troll... You cant be that ignorant...
"you can’t have 8 inches per miles squared"
Simple question to you: you have this equation, where exactly do i insert observers height? Before 8 inches or after?
"because there is no curve seen on the mirror like floor for 400 miles and sometime farther"
? 400 miles? Please, provide coordinates where you have 400 miles of flat plane... Do you even live on earth?
"the HORIZON if flat"
But its not. Create 3d simulation with accurate scales, test your claim, after you fail, come back and say: i'm sorry, i was wrong.
Earth is HUGE, dont expect to observe curvature on its surface... Atleast not to the sides...
"there is no experiment of a vacuum and air coexisting at all "
Fusion reactor. I told you about this once already... Another example would be... Wait for it... Earth and its atmosphere.
"demons Tatar’s"
What the what now?
"There is no such thing as gravity and there is no such thing as space time"
Gravity is a label on observable fact that objects with mass attract objects with mass. Space can be seen by going outside and looking up. Space time? No idea what this should even mean at this point.
"VERY SPACE OF REALITY BY CURVING FROM MASS?"
What?
"Someone must show me how a vacuum would have no affect on a high pressure system"
Lets test your basic knowledge about reality: Does atmosphere have gradient? Like that thing where if you went up it would become less and less dense? Is this a thing from reality? Because it is, unless you even tan to deny this one, then you are being help. So as we do have gradient of atmosphere, going roughly from 1 atmosphere to... Wait for it... Wait... 0! its not highly pressurised as there is no point where you would have big differences between pressure, its a gradient... GRADIENT. Wait, you do know what gradient is?
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@dragonoftheeast695
I'm saying that you can't have both at same time, just like every single game out there are based on either flat world or a globe, one or the other, you can't have both at same time, its just logical contradiction like having "round square" it just can't exist.
And most games are based on flat surface for simpler calculations, down is just down on Z axis, no need to calculate complicated stuff based on 3D coordinates where it would change based on where you are on the map. It doesn't produce life like results, but its good enough for that purpose, still, its just a flat map. Games which needs full planets simulation, like flight sims or some space games, those would use globe model with more complex calculations, still, its just a globe even if you want on the surface and horizon is being rendered ahead of you.
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@lyvinlyphe9644
"Respond all you want, I won’t bother to comment back"
Trying to scream that you are correct and then run away like a child? Nice...
"I’ve done more of my fair share of back and forth with people like you."
So does that mean that your personal experience of being put down into place got to you and now you want to avoid that by running away? And just for the record, it was you who made original comment, so you came here looking for a reply, you got it, now own it.
"Science’s single most important goal is to remove a creator from your mind,"
That's false. Science goal is to determine reality, if we cant find god in reality its not a fault of science, its fault of your empty god claim.
" along with being one of the biggest money making schemes in global history"
Then don't support it, go and live in a cave naked, why are you using scientific tools to make such silly comment and complain out tools you use? Dont like it, dont use it. Lets see if your god will give you better ones.
FYI Biggest money scheme is a religion, you might want to fact check how much its making while not even paying taxes.
"With an infinite number of galaxies"
Who said this? Who said that there are infinite number of galaxies? Did you counted them?...
"and all that mumbo jumbo, you feel fairly small and insignificant don’t you? "
Yes, on grand scale you are nothing. I know that you dont like that feeling and you want to feel special, but sorry, this is reality, not America, you are not special, you are who you are.
"You don’t matter and were created out of pure randomness and coincidence. "
Who said that we are created? Are you trying to smuggle in creator?
And dint your god supposedly created us from nothing when he got bored existing outside space and time?
"That’s what your science tells you."
That's what reality tells us, its not our problem if you dont like reality.
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@10697018
"then why can't anyone ever prove it?"
It was proven, 97% of scientists accepts that. Smartest people on earth accepts that. People with IQ above average accepts that... Just because you dont like something, doesnt make it false. Evolution, aka change in gene pool over time, is a proven fact. You can try adapt this reality to your story, but you cant deny facts.
"You can say it is a fact all day long but without proof, you are just grasping at straws"
Do i seriously need to educate you on something you should have learned in middle school?
"We have proof of creation"
Cool, prove that proof of creation. Because you know: You can say it is a fact all day long but without proof, you are just grasping at straws
"In fact, Kent Hovind will give you $250,000 if you can actually prove it."
No he is not. Because that would already happened by quite few people who would gladly take this challenge and humiliate Kent. Where is this official statement from Kent that he will give 250k for some one who proves evolution? Because i know couple names who will gladly take this challenge... Spare money is a nice thing to have...
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@mickeywicked478
Sort comments by "Newest first" scroll little bit down and you have example as
"
INSANE DISAPPEARANCES!!!!
I can’t believe people think we have a molten core 😂"
or
"
Alex Bereczki
How can you know for sure that it is round ?"
or
"
Djss The One
Oh.... I just laugh on both side.... We dont have clue about anything.... We only know what they alow us... We only know what they teach us in school.... Dont bother about this , live life with family, ITS actual so short
Cheers."
or
"Outcast Outdoors - On a Fishin' Mission
When government lives off of you like a parasite, why would you believe anything they say?"
Tho i can agree, in general this video does have quite a few flatearthers commenting on. Interesting.
"My point is that if flat earth isn't as rampant as the "debunker" videos will have one believe, then why is there such a campaign against it??"
Because people like nice good laugh? You can find videos about debunking pixie existence... Doesn't mean claim that pixies are real have any solid ground...
"But, please, tell me more about these "normal people" who are dedicating their lives to the campaign.."
Normal are those who can determine shape of earth by basic observation of sun, no math is involved, no government is involved, just plain basic observation from actual reality. Its not a campaign, just a hobby and in some cases people make videos about it because it gets some attraction and makes money for them, its a fun topic in some weird sense.
What is your entire point here? What difference does it make if there was 0 or 1 billion comments from flat earthers? Would amount of comments make it less false?
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@reportercrusher2411
"especially if it’s not from earth"
What difference does it make? If i show you 2 images of a tree, how would you determine that photo X is real or fake? How would you determine that photo Y is real or fake?
"I don’t know how images wil turnout from the moon ... nobody knew , at that time"
Its basic photography... Exposure time... Try taking picture at night of stars while having bright object in view, like a moon... You simply can't take photos like that. You could do it in multiple passes, like taking photo of moon, then covering it up and taking photo of stars and then super expose one on another with some software, image will not be fake, it will be photoshoped, but it will represent reality.
"Photoshop and animation is for the untrained eye very difficult if not impossible but I still believe there is not shared knowledge about this subject. "
? First images of earth have been done in 1946, photoshop invented 1987... There is huge gap between those dates... When first photo was taken such expression as "CGI" was not even existent, as at that time computers have been as smart as calculator in a dollar store... Tho at that time, computers took couple rooms in size and required multiple people to insert equations into it for processing...
Photo realistic rendering have been possible only in last couple years, not 74 years back...
"I’m not a it-specialist"
I'm.
"But when I have the images in my hands then I can see if they are messed with. "
How? I still want to know what method you are actually using to determine that.
"that said I don’t know how it works in space with the absence of earths conditions"
In same way as it works on earth... Physics doesn't stop working just because you are in vacuum. And you can even get better/sharper looking photos due to lack of atmosphere which usually creates blurriness due to particles in air.
"So show me video then ...."
Of what? Earth? Space? ISS? I mean, you have dozens, hundreds, maybe even thousands of videos on youtube alone which are from space. Pick any official video and debunk it... You can go and google out original photo "blue marble" which is one shot image of earth and debunk that... As it should be simpler to debunk one image then entire video.
If you honestly want to know the truth, but you cant even debunk ONE official video/photo from space, what does it say about your investigative capabilities? Do you reject globe model/space/moon landing just because its official stance and you want to be special one? Do you have evidence for anything?
"I am not satisfied with the official narrative and therefore asking questions.... "
Cool, ask questions, but don't assume that you are even close to truth if you simply want to reject official narrative just because you don't like it or you failed to understand it. Pick on single topic/image/video and lets dissect it.
Because now it simply looks that you want to be different from others for sake of being different and not for sake of being correct.
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@glenrisk5234
""evidence" Big Bang" theory was originally predicated on has entirely been debunked"
When? By who? Why scientific world is not aware of this?...
"despite there being absolutely no evidence that there even can be a beginning?"
Big bang is only a starting of already existing energy and matter, it beginning of our local representation of this universe. Simple expansion.
"there is absolutely no evidence that matter or energy can truly be created or destroyed, only transformed"
Correct, this is why claim that god created everything from nothing contradicts that and big bang never claimed that everything came into being from nothing... So you are proving my point here.
"I agree that the available evidence is that your God is false"
First of all, i dont have god. Second, some of god claims cant be shown to be false as they are not falsifiable.
" But you have no idea what my concept of God is"
Does it really matter if you cant prove that he is real in any case?
"clearly no understanding of what the words "one true God" mean?"
I do understand, its a buzz word, have no real meaning, simply looks cooler than saying "god"
"No doubt you believe yourself the most intelligent creature in all existence"
False. So avoid making straw man here.
"there are species in this world known to have brains some ten times the size of your entire body"
And? Size of brain is not directly connected with ability to use it.
"So yeh no reason to be respectful of a possible higher intelligence than your own right?"
When you manage to show that higher intelligence is there and is responsible for anything in this reality, then we will talk. But for now you simply made a claim that there are smarter creatures on earth and that there are creatures with bigger brains... Cool... Dont care... We are talking about god claim here, not about size of brains... Why the hell you thought that bringing up brain size would prove your god in any shape or form?...
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@Paull1398
"So since the globe model claims to have all the answers i would dare to ask for a proof of it's curvature"
You do realize that even if you could disprove globe model that would not prove flat one?
"Because there are countless videos and images where one could see WAY more and farther then the mathematics of the sphere would allow. "
And? The fact that you cant see across ocean and you can only see some what further then bare minimum of math suggests shows that you have curvature. Its not a question if there is one, question would be: why you can see further then you should on a spherical surface? Well, there are many variables here, one of those is observers altitude and size of observed object. For some magical reason every single time when flat earther comes and makes a claim that you can see further then you should its about some huge object and in some cases video is taken from a mountain... Doesn't disprove globe, not a tiny bit. At worst you will prove that earth is a bigger globe...
"This is a very interesting video because the sun happens to set behind those mountains"
Which should not be possible of flat earth model... But well... Who fact checks these days.
"are 163 miles away and therefor should be hidden behind 10300 feet of Curvature. The height of the mountain is 9150 feet."
And observers altitude is...? What about light refraction? And the FACT that you can only see top part of it demonstrates that you have curvature... You seriously proving globe earth here...
"This video is not from a person that supports flat earth"
And? Its still doesn't prove flat one or disprove globe, it actually supports globe model, like i said, only tip of mountain is visible, which means that bottom part is hidden by the curvature.
So yea...
And to prove globe without using any math or NASA or media or government or brains... things about sun: Size, speed, straight line movement, sunset. Four things observable by anyone which match globe 100% and missmatch 100% flat one. NO math is needed, nothing, just a solar filter you could get in local home depo for 1 buck and some spare time.
Was this enough or should we continue?
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@kumarslvr1
"You are not educating me anything new."
If its not new, then why you dont believe that we landed on a moon? If you know all this already, you would know that there is nothing preventing us to land on the moon.
"I just simply don’t believe human beings can survive beyond the van Allen belt with the technology they had back then . "
Again, thats cool personal ignorant opinion of yours. But when we look at what actual experts say, they would disagree with your personal opinion. So why are you who clearly dint do any actual research on all this radiation thing would reject what experts say and would go with his personal opinion?
I'm not questioning your beliefs, I'm questioning your rationality in picking them.
"I am just saying that they have not successfully put a living being on moon and got them back alive. "
Based on what evidence? Like seriously, based on what evidence would you conclude that putting people on moon would not be possible?
"Putting man on ISS is not bloody same as putting someone on the moon"
Actually its not that far away. If you can put some one into space for long period of times, then its just few steps away from sending some one further away.
"Stop being so arrogant just accept you don’t really know all the facts of what you are talking about for sure , you are not an Astronaut or a scientist. "
But i know more than your do, as it seams. Just because you want to believe that we never landed on the moon, doesn't mean we dint. And again, going back, by this logic you should reject existence of atoms, after all, you are not a scientist who actually observed those, arent you now? So why do you accept that atoms are real which you never observed, but you reject moon landing on basis that you are not the astronaut or scientist?
Do you seriously not getting where I'm going with this? You literally cherry picking what you want to believe from same group of people while rejecting something just because you cant think of a way it could be possible. Its like if I said that i have dog and you completely agreed with that and when i said that i have cat you would say that its impossible... You ether confirm both with same amount of tests/experiment/evidence or you reject both, but you cherry picking one of them while rejecting other.
"choose to believe"
You are not choosing what you believe.
" I don’t believe in one countries claim of doing something that I think is not possible."
But its not one countries claim... People, experts from across entire world says that they did it, so you reject actual expert words just because you as some one who did 5 minute google search cant think of a way it could be possible.
"you keep calling me ignorant just cause I don’t agree with what you believe in."
I'm trying to get to the core issue here, like actual reason why would you reject part of science and accept another one. I understand what you believe, now i want to know "why?"
" in fact i would say I have little more knowledge in this field cause I researched about it as I did not believe in it. "
That's false. You mentioned Van Allen belt like that could have any impact on people going to the moon, while in reality we simply went around it. Your knowledge about this topic is lower, that's clear. Get any rocket scientist, well, get any scientist and ask them if moon landing is possible or not. How many of them would say that it is? 98%? You literally trying to say that people who invest their entire lives in this topic knows less than your 5 minute google search... C'mon...
"So grow up and agree to disagree on something."
You cant agree to disagree on facts. You can have your wrong personal opinion, but it will not change the fact that we did sent people to the moon.
To put it simply: You have right to your opinion, you don't have right to your own facts.
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@clintonbeavers8311
"I dont believe what the goverment tells me"
Why not?
" your a fool if you do"
Why?
"you should care what the bible says because god created you"
Says who? Bible? So we should care what bible says because bible says that its true?... Do you know what is circular argument? Its a logical fallacy and you just made it...
"we all had to start somewhere and that is with adam and eve"
While in actual reality there was no Adam and Eve. Proven by actual science and not by blind belief that some ancient book said so
"the prophecy have come true"
First of all, no they dint. Second, even if you had 1000 accurate prophecies in your book, that would NOT prove that god is real, that would only prove that some one got accurate predictions but you would not had any idea how.
Ok, will not bother to poit out dozens of issues with rest of your blabering... First of all, please, for love of your imaginary friend you call god, use punctuation marks... Its really hard to read one long sentence while at same time you make it in multiple different things... So i have to reread parts of your text to know when one claim ends and another starts and avoid mixing couple of them into one huge pile...
Another thing, i dont really care what you have to say or what your book of fables has to say, i'm interested in reality, you until now only presented your opinion, which is cool, you have your opinion, but its worthless when it comes to reality. So if you want to convince anyone in here, start by presenting actual evidence and not simply making circular arguments...
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@wolfofmilan
Short reply... Skipping quite allot of what you blabbered here as most of that is quite irrelevant, just bunch of random sentences and accusations what i'm while you have no idea who i'm... Tho says allot about you.
This should have been at end, but you might not even get that far and this is most important thing to resolve anyways.
Lets take ONE topic here: Your claim that wearing masks creates toxic environment. CAN YOU PROVIDE EVIDENCE THAT THIS CLAIM IS NOT RANDOM BULLSHIT YOU MADE?
"you lack the awareness to see past all these lies"
Can you prove that those are lies?
" it's if I want to even bother explaining to simple weak mind like yours"
That's a good start.. Call others dumb and be done with that... That's what "smart" people...
"to feel right from wrong"
Feel? Is reality defined by your feelings?! And you called me weak minded?! Ok...
"you take word for word what they tell you, you support the very situation and condition placed upon the people without a second guess as to why?"
Em I? Do i look like you who never actually fact checks? You keep spiting out random stuff here while presenting 0 actual evidence to support any of your claims... Why is that? Do you think anyone will believe you without second guessing?...
"its been proven all around the world if you but open your eyes"
So maybe present that proof instead of screaming like a child that it was?
"instead of remember what humans are capable of from our past"
you know whats ironic about this? You reject majority of experts because of what humans did in past while accepting minority of random facebook warriors because they said so... Why is that?
"Learn to use your heart and mind"
Heart pumps blood... So i'm not really in control of it, atleast not willingly... It just pumps my blood...
"learn to actually care for people you don't know"
Like wearing a mask?... Damn, this cognitive dissonance is extreme with you...
"not of a virus but of the lack of everyday human life interactions and freedom"
You know what limits your interactions with others? being in hospital and connected to a breathing machine... Or being dead... And what freedom are you talking about? Are you against seat belts too? What about wearing pants? Because its not allowed to walk around with your junk flapping in the wind, yet you are fine with that... But och no no no, wearing a mask is too much... Or not having some party... Flipping hell...
"You have no arguement but the delusion that you do"
Och this irony... This irony with you... Its not strong, its extreme!!!
"they will say even the slightest lie to get you to do what they want you to do"
Like saying that wearing a mask takes away your freedom? That lie?
" defend something they don't even understand themselves with zero proof to back it up"
Well you clearly have experience in this one, as you are prime example with this last comment of yours. You just spit our some but hurt conspiracy theory type nonsense while providing 0 proof for it. I know i mentioned this, but this irony is just... Amazing...
"Trying to explain masks, distancing, the virus to you and whats happening around you as the truth won't do a damn thing because..."
Because you have no supporting evidence that you are correct? Ok.
", yet it's only so effective, it won't keep out everything at all"
Are you stupid or just pretending to be one? You literally saying that masks help... yet you are against them because they are not helpful enough?... Damn... If masks help even tiny bit, conversation is over... Sonner we eradicate this pandemic sooner you can go back drinking your beer with your pals or something...
"in a car, "
From when do you need to wear one in a car? maybe when you have random passenger... But when you need to do that when you are alone or with your familly?
"in public or in a store"
Yes... Because otherwise it would defeat entire point of them... Crowded places like stores is a hot spot to get virus or to infect some one else...
"the longer you wear a mask the more harm you will do to yourself"
based on what evidence? Your feelings in your balls or maybe some actual scientific research some actual experts done?
"as soon as you place on a mask the ppm levels that are trapped withing the confined space of the mask become extremely toxic within a manner of 20 seconds"
nah, you just stupid... There are actual measuring devices to measure your O2 levels in your blood, quite a few experiments done all over the place, none of them supports your childish. And let me guess, your evidence for this is facebook post? Or was this youtube video?
Ok, skipping everything else, no real point and you just blabbering random shit here...
So now, first of all, friendly advice: KEEP IT SHORT... You terribly like to go into this tangent and talk about what i want or do or em or all kind of shit, just some random preamble and then you simply end it with some random claim like its a fact... Learn to make normal arguments and include actual evidence, like actual citations, links to research, anything... Its just huge waste of time to address all of your random claims, random blabbering...
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@billwilliamson1506
"If you think the Bible is a book of fables but Ancient Greek historians are 100% factual then you’re wrong. "
First of all, dint said that Ancient Greek historians are 100% factual. Second, there is HUGE difference between a claim that dude named bob was real who built a house in comparison to a Jesus who was a god himself and performed magic... One of those requires more than a book to be taken seriously. And the fact that you have false claims, like global flood, which never happen, only indicates that its not a representation of reality, aka book of fables.
"The Bible is more than fable but not true fact 100%."
Get definition for a fable, read it, realize that bible fits it perfectly.
"It is better suited fore moral claims since it at least outlines sound principles"
Stoning homosexuals? Killing adulterous? Burning witches? Beating your slaves?... Those sound principles?
Bible is useless when it comes in determining reality and for moral guidance, its simply useless... Because it is book of fables, nothing more.
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@HaydenEvanoff
"Scientists: “oh it’s cause of light refraction duh”"
Well yes... Is a known FACT that due to cold air, which you will have near water surface, tends to bend light down, which means that you will see slightly more then you should. This is basic fact which needs to be counted into, just because flat earthers doesn't like reality will not make it false.
"It’s constantly being corrected, improved, changed."
Key word is "Improved". If you have ruler with 1cm accuracy then your accuracy will be... Well.. 1cm... If you get new one with 1mm accuracy you will change measurement number, it will be different than previous one but it will be more accurate, so you will introduce change in result but doesn't mean that original was incorrect, it simply was less accurate.
"but I’m also willing to admit that I can’t prove it’s a sphere. "
Earths shape can be confirmed from your backyard, just because you, personally, cant do this will not mean that earth is not a globe. This is basic argument from ignorance.
"And your reaction to how much you belittle these peoples opinion shows that you never actually even considered it to be possible in the first place."
You cant have opinions about facts... There is no real debate here, earth is a sphere, its a fact, having debate or having some ones ignorant opinion will not change this fact.
"You would have been one of the people debunking scientists that called the earth a sphere first, only because of popular opinion. Think about that."
There is difference between argument from popularity and actual testable and provable fact. Earths shape can be proved to be spherical, what you feel in your balls while looking at horizon will not be on same level as actual evidence for the shape of earth.
"You believe that sight can bend?"
Sight? What? Sight is ability to see, while this conversation is about light refraction... Which can bend... Provable fact.
"We are bound to keep proving things we previously thought were true to be false."
This only applies to theories, some of them, while earths shape is not a theory, its a fact.
"And it doesn’t help that we live in such an evil world filled with agendas and deception."
Yea, like people who tries to convince others that earth is flat...
"and inverted around a spherical object at that"
Invert? What are you talking about?
"Also, a man’s height in no way is going to throw off a SIX MILE test.."
? What? You dint realized that altitude will have effect on how far you should see on a globe?... Seriously, you might want to start from basics of geometry here.
"we are talking about inches, maybe a foot. The boat was supposed to drop over six feet alone."
So it did dropped then? If it did, then there is no longer question if earth is a spherical, it would only be a question: How big it is?
"Even the YouTuber above said the math was supposedly correct though? Am I missing something?"
Youtuber above tried to reproduce place experiment is which is as stupid as it gets as it should produce same exact results on both models, so i would not trust what he says on any topic in general...
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@hussainal-hussaini8483
"I can say the same thing to you!?"
Yet you cant. My understanding of physics doesn't contradict reality.
"And please can you explain what part in physics you are talking about?"
Aerodynamics?...
"Because as far as i remember I wasn't talking about the aerodynamics of the takeoff/ landing process.."
And? I just give you simple example showing that plane doesn't need to point its nose where it wants to go...
"alot of things left without fine scientific explanation in the global model!"
No, science explained everything, YOU simply dint understood some points from that. Your personal ignorance is not counter evidence. We can sit here and teach you about some basic things and explain stuff, but this should have been done in middle school and we are not here to teach you.
"so instead of systematically defending your own beliefs.."
Its not a belief, its a fact, earth is a globe, factually round. You cant have personal opinion on a established fact...
"as you can about the idea behind the airplane flying straight without any adjusting during the flight..Gravity?"
Gravity and aerodynamics. In general plane could fly from point A to point B while keeping it perfectly perpendicular to center of earth. Would be extremely inefficient but possible. So i have no idea what is your complain here... Go and learn shit about aerodynamics after that you can complain that something related to it doesn't make any sense and then you can actually present counter evidence, because again, your ignorance on the topic is not evidence that its false.
" Am so hungry to know about gravity and how it's really work.. "
Cavendish experiment proves gravity.
And to put it simply: gravity is attraction between 2 objects with mass.
Yes, any objects. Even you have your own gravitational field, tho because you have such tiny mass in comparison to 5.972 × 10^24 kg earths mass, you have no impact on that.
" And why there is many air trips crossing unreasonably great distances while there is shorter once based on the global model.."
Like what? Give me example and not empty claims... And before you even done that, so what? Even if there was some flight paths, why cant you simply google out why they are in this way instead of making your own shit?
"And am going to ask that again why we don't see the curvature on water surfaces even when mathematically we should.."
On a 6,371 km radius spherical object you want to see actual curvature on water? Are you kidding me?... How small do you think earth is? 69 miles gives you around 1 degree of lean from you... Do you seriously think that you could observe this curvature on water?...
And... Google... Ships disappearing OVER horizon. Ships (or any object) literally disappears bottoms up over horizon which is only possible if there is curvature.
"And if you are going to explain that with your super natural, physical, rare and mysterious air density/light theory that you can't actually make or explain.."
Basic geometry 101... Do you even have knowledge about geometry? because as of your last sentences it doesn't look like you do.
"am 100% OK with what you've been saying about the sun facts and i have no problems with that.. I have problems with the other issues as I mentioned before"
So basically anything you ACTUALLY understand you are fine but anything you FAIL to understand, that makes you doubt globe earth?... Do you notice pattern here? You literally think that earth could be flat because you lack of knowledge in particular area... Does that mean that rockets are not real because you have no idea how those work?...
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@tylerdordon99
First of, difference between height and width is tiny, if you had picture of earth in size of your monitor, difference would be around 0.5 or 1 pixel, which is literally undetectable. So even as earth is oblate spheroid and slightly wider on bottom part, on grand scale its a perfect sphere.
For photos, most photos are taken from ISS which is ONLY 400km away from earth. In this case you will get enlarged continents as you simple are too close to earth. If you want picture without distortions then you will need to go quite a bit further, "blue marble" photo is a nice example of a photo taken from appropriate distance.
Tho... That's not even a point here. You could prove that 100% of photos and videos from space are fake, that would NOT disprove globe model. Earth is a globe because its measurable and observable fact anyone can do. Even basic observation of sun have 4 things which proves globe and disproves flat one without any need to trust anyone or do any calculations. So yea, photos are irrelevant, earth is a globe independent of those.
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"For instance NASA will say we've shot things into outer space"
You do know that you can observe ISS from earth?...
"That's a lie and they admit it by saying, we've never left lower Earth orbit"
Which is a lie spread by people who have no idea what they are talking about. Like seriously, find us actual quote for this one with actual context of it, i dare you.
" You accept that. Even though there is no legitimate photo of it."
Question for you: If you could explore some ones house from inside, check every room, but never leave house itself. Could you make a rough picture of how it should look from outside?
"So honestly I can't say these flat earther's are exactly crazy or stupid."
Not stupid or crazy, atleast not all of them, but brainwashed and gullible, definitely. And what is interesting about your comment here is that you tried to compare our galaxy with the shape of earth... Shape of earth can be determined with anyone, for f**k sakes, observation of sun proves that earth is not flat... But you want to compare that with shape of gallaxy which would require quite abit of knowledge and technology to determine that... And on top of that, shape of our galaxy doesn't really have any impact on actual reality, it could be round, it could be frisbee, it could be flat pancake, would not overturn entire scientific world like it would if earth was a flat space pizza.
" I'll just stick with the answer that nobody knows"
But we do know... You are slightly better than flat earthers, but still quite bad...
"If it was based information there wouldn't be an opposing perspective!"
? Will say it again, 4 things about sun disproves flat earth, no need of special training or expensive equipment. Shape of earth is based on facts and evidence, just because you have some one who doesn't want it to be true doesn't mean that its not true... Pick anything from reality and you will find atleast one person who will disagree with that, hell, you can even find people who will say that you are not real... Does that mean that he has a valid point that you are not real and that your existence is not based on facts?... Do you see flaw in your thinking?
"2+2=4... Based"
Because its how we defined it... its not a claim about what is true, it is what it is... Even tho, ironically, you can get 2+2=5 throw some mathematical gymnastics.
So yea, please, for sake of your own well being, try to educate yourself on basic reality... Earth is not flat, this should be obvious for everyone.. Well, atleast for most it is.
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"The earth is definitely not flat. But..."
I'm not racist, but...
"fact that you did not mention the number of pictures of the earth and other space bodies when supposedly the earth is surrounded by thousands of satellites"
Lets do 5 grade math here. Surface of earth, 510.1 million km², for sake of argument lets use this number, even tho actual would be bigger for this case. Now, buy current estimation there is around 2666 satellites in earths orbit. For sake of argument lets say its 5000, because why not. Now hardest part: 510 000 000 km² / 5000 = 102 000 km² for ONE satelite, while general satelite size can be as small as basketball or as big as mid sized car.
Now, another question on top of this. How far does car need to go from you until you cant see it? 5km? 10?... Do you see where i'm going here?... I hope you do...
"Sun, Moon and every light in the night sky, you'll see that everything moves in the same direction"
maybe because earth rotates?... Like seriously, what do you expect? Moon does one rotation around earth in 28 days, so even tho you can see that moon is moving at different speed than stars in background, its still quite slow. Then sun, earth does full rotation in 365 days, which means that stars in background in relation to sun will move even slower, but it will.
Did you skipped geometry class?...
"Basically, with all the rotations and movements in the universe, this shouldn't be possible"
Says who? Closest star is over 4light years away... And you want to notice movement on daily basis?... Are you kidding me?
"The fact that we can read the same stars our ancestors could and they don't seem to change pattern is odd"
Present to us picture of stars from 2000 years ago and lets compare... Och wait...
Berdard's star, is a start in record which moved by quite allot (relatively speaking) in last couple decades which was actually recorded. So yea, stars do move and it was proven.
"there isn't a lot that disproves the flat earth apart from the obviously honest NASA (Nazi safe zone) and other space agencies"
And you said you are not flat earther?... Seriously?... Sun disproves flat earth... Your ignorance is not proof of anything...
"If you don't trust the government you shouldn't believe what they say is true or not true"
Government is irrelevant to the shape of earth... Or to astronomy...
Questioning is fine, being ignorant intentionally is not.
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@sammydark9
"Ignorance is stating info given to you by others as facts without proving it yourself"
Do you even know what ignorance is?...
"Let me guess, you did all that math by yourself?"
Yes?.... its like 5th grade math... division... Did you skipped that class?
" all of that is almost impossible to occur naturally"
"Almost" doesn't make it impossible.
"The sun and moon can align perfectly despite them being different sizes and different distances from us"
Why not? planets rotate on generally same plane, so why should it not align?
"yet there are some that are completely fixed straight above us?"
Yes?... You literally answering to your own question... Objects which are further away will move slower, relatively speaking, when you move to the side. Have you ever been in a car and looked to the side?... Its basic geometry 101... Tho you think that i need google to perform basic division, so maybe its not that simple for you. So sorry about that...
"the fact that plane simulators can't even use a globe terrain"
Why would they use globe? Its allow simpler to simulate physics on a plane and there is no point in making it curved, unless you are simulating space travel, in which case you have multiple games doing that with some wonky physics because of that. Its exponentially more simpler to code on basic X Y and Z coordinate plane instead of trying to do it on a spherical one, you would known this if you had any knowledge in coding, but i do...
"There's no flight simulator that allows you to go all around the globe"
Google maps?... Not a flight simulator but provides map of entire earth on a globe... What else do you need?
"And my question to you is, why all these flat earthers?"
Internet. Give access to internet and you will get rise in stupid claims, because its simpler for people like that gather into one bigger group. We dint got more flat earthers, they simply got money to pay for internet...
"Why can't NASA just disprove all of them?"
First of all, they did.
Second, they dont need to.
Third, NASA is irrelevant, basic sun observation disproves them.
Forth, its not a question of disproving them, this was done long time ago, its basic education, as all of them (seams to include you) has no idea about basic geometry or even 5th grade math...
"All they need is to live stream a rocket going from point earth to the moon's surface"
Trip to moon is like 2 week travel, or its one week to one side. In any case. Nobody went to the moon for quite some time now, there are plans to return in couple years, so you will get your 4k 60fps video from moon. But this is not the issue, we can provide live stream from space being taken currently, there are live streams from space... Doesn't help out... So why would trip to moon help?
"Scientists tell you that you live on a pared shape elliptic spheroid, but every single image you see is a complete round globe"
because you are to ignorant to understand basic geometry. Difference between height and width is around 0.4%, its even smaller between hemisphere which creates this "pearshape" so it would be more suspicious if it actually looked like oblate spheroid in pictures... Please, learn basics about earth before you try to debunk it...
"Or just with a telescope from earth show us the Flag on the Moon, that's literally all they have to do!"
You do realize that you will need quite big telescope for that?... Like HUGE one... Which is none existent on earth to take such picture... You literally want to see flag which is like 1meter by 50cm in size at 384,400 km distance which is not even faced at you... Damn... Seriously, that initial "I'm not flat earthe, but" say more than we need.. You are flat earher, dont pretend that you are not...
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@sammydark9
" It is none existent ? "
What is?
"Sun observation proves what?"
Globe earth.
"You say that they disproved it back in the day, who? NASA, the Greek's?"
People with IQ above average. Flat earth doesn't need to be disproven, you don't need to disprove something what never been proven... Its like asking "Who disproved unicorns?" simple doesnt make any sense... People proved that earth is a globe, you can prove that too with some basic observations of reality and some basic understanding how geometry works.
"You are basing your 5th grade maths on numbers they've given you... "
? how big do you think earth is? Like seriously, how big it should be? because it doesn't matter what they provide, we can take 1/4 of actual surface size, my point will still remain same...
"You know for a fact the distance between the earth and the moon, the size of the earth... "
I know approximate size, i can get more accurate from some one who did actual measurements. have you ever been to Australia? No? So its not real, right? Using your logic i we cant trust people who are saying that they live in Australia... So its not real? Right?
"Don't lie to yourself when I ask you if you did all these calculations by yourself, trying to act smart when you're just a blind believer"
Division? Its to complex for you to divide a number by another number?...
"Both are basing their beliefs on scripture and what has been passed down through out history"
doesn't
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@sammydark9
"Questioning the existence of a country that you can perfectly visit or contact people from there is the same as questioning the existence of space black holes or the size of stars..."
So now we are talking about black holes and size of stars?... How many topic will you change during one conversation?... You need to learn to walk before you attempt to run. So, still waiting your agreement that earth is a globe. Then we can move to something more complex than this. Deal?
"You say flat earth doesn't have to be disproven..."
Its not, same as god claim doesn't have to be disproven. Any claim without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. Its simple.
"Since day one on this earth every single civilisations describes an enclosed world"
And? And since day one we had people thinking that thunder is controlled by some god in clouds... its still an empty claim which can be dismissed without any need to disprove it...
"but rather a dome like shape"
Which doesn't resolve anything. Well, you could some what resolve issue with sunset/sunrise, partially, but its still false, its would only be less false than actual flat earth.
"You're saying that it doesn't have to be disproven because of Greek studies on shadows and lights / NASA images and studies...."
Do you even read what i write? Because now you simply making shit up here... Shape of earth can be determined by YOUR PERSONAL observation of suns behavior. Will repeat, because it looks like its to hard for you to understand this basic point i'm making here. Shape of earth can be determined BY YOU without ANY outside help. NASA, government, greeks, Bob form 3a apartment or your dog are irrelevant to the shape of earth, if you have basic grasp how geometry works you can determine shape of earth. But i guess you are not wiser than Greeks who lived 2300 years ago...
"You can't prove it with just observations"
You can.
"Everything we observe indicates that we don't float in an infinite space"
Do you see what you are doing here? You just talked about shape of earth, where you made a claim that its not possible to know, now you complain about allot more complex not being possible... Seriously, learn to walk before you start running, you will hit your face to the ground less frequently if you do that...
"It doesn't indicate that is completely flat or that it's round..."
Yet observation of sun proved that it is round. Do you understand that?
"Stop talking out of your a** and actually send me a link of an actual picture of the earth... I'm still waiting."
Don't care, like honestly i don't give a f**k, i'm not your mom to wipe your ass when you shit all over yourself. if you are too lazy to do 5 second google search then there is nothing i could provide to you what would actually convince you. You are too lazy to know what is real.
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@sammydark9
Its like you are trying to troll here or something...
Do you even understand what "Belt" is?... Have you ever seen one? Its a strip of something... In this case its a strip of radiation... We cant go past throw it... But... Held on your chair, because this will be like a university grade stuff: We went around it...
Like seriously, i'm reading your comments and it looks like you are some sad person who just makes some silly comments just to get attention...
" It just doesn't add up"
With what? Your personal ignorance? Maybe not, but reality is not dependent on it. I will say something scary here, sunshine, but reality doesn't give a f**k about you, your ignorance on basic things, like shape of belt, doesn't disprove our trip to moon.
"so please don't call me ignorant if you believe humans with 60s technology did all that"
But you are, you literally are ignorant human being. You want me to prove that? Easy. Explain to us ignorant people WHY it was not possible to go to moon with 60s technology. And just to save some time, avoid continuing with your random meaningless accusations that it wasn't, but actually provide evidence that it wasn't. Can you do it, sunshine?
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@sammydark9
"The white house phone in the 60s was incapable of reaching a stable signal all the way to the moon, do I really have to explain why?"
Should i care?
"And this is the type of technology that took us around the Van Allen belt, which you say is just a strip"
You seriously comparing white house phone with trip to moon?... You do realize that there is difference between sending signal to moon and back and having technology to go there?... Those are not the same technologies... Flipping hell...
And if you would have spent 5sec and actually used google and entered "Van Allen radiation belt" you would known what i mean by it only being a strip... You can go around it, this is what they did in 60s... Not convenient and uses more fuel to go to moon, but as we cant go directly throw it, we simply went around it... This is where you complain about astronaut saying that we cant go pass throw it which was a fact but doesn't disprove a shit...
You dont even know what you are trying to disprove here, no wonder you are failing on each step.
"Please don't tell me you're naive enough to believe we actually we're able to do such a thing yet struggle to do so now"
We are not struggling to do it now. It was over 23 billion dolars to go to moon, yes, with a B... After couple trips we realised that there is nothing in there, no resources to be used, nothing, just a rock in space. So no one will invest another 23 billion bucks just to make a trip back to this space rock for shits and giggles...
But due to advancements in rocket science, mainly in reusable rockets, like spaceX have currently, this cost can be broth down to something like 80million per seat. This is why there are plans to go back there and establish research base, just like ISS. Which will be more or less test grounds before going to mars.
Seriously, you are lazy and ignorant on so many things that its even sad to read your comments...
"Please don't tell me it's not a coincidence that humans decided to stop going to the moon as the normal user's technology increased and Photoshop started being used by the common people"
? Isint this actually a proof that moon landing did happen?... We dint had technology to create fake images when moon landing happen, when we did had technology like that we dint went there... Isint this should be opposite if you have been correct? Like moon landing would have only happen after technology to create CGI images have been invented and not before it?...
Honestly i just hope that you are just trolling here, otherwise your life will be difficult. Tho even if you are trolling, your life is already difficult... So i'm sorry about you.
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S.C.
Short answer: Because they vote.
To go more into specifics, people like flat earthers or theists tend to push their fantasy on others, especially children, brainwashing them with all this nonsense, which is objectively harmful. Issue is not with their belief, but what they are doing with it. If you had some one believing that we live on a back of unicorn and he lived alone in woods, no one would care, but this is not the case, they are trying actively promote their fantasy, trying to promote pseudo science... And even more ironically, majority of flat earthers are believers.
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@davie7670
"Well thank you for caring enough to reply to someone who doesn't care"
Some one who doesn't care doesn't make comments saying that they don't care. Like seriously, if you dint cared, you wont even watch video about this topic, let alone create comment...
"I made this comment because I see all these comments calling them stupid"
But they are. I mean, you might not like this, but by definition of stupid, they are stupid, atleast their actions and claims are.
". I just don't think it's right to bash other people for what they believe in"
That's not the issue. Issue is with people who screams that they are correct because their book said so. Issue is not with their beliefs but what they are doing with them.
"I would still treat them as a normal human"
Define normal. Because its not normal to think that earth is flat. So you should mean something else when you say that they are normal.
"Sometimes it's not about being right or wrong, if it works for them, so be it."
Yet they dont live on island alone... They beliefs effect their actions. How many do you think of them decides not to send their children to school just because it spreads "lies"? How many of them decides to teach their children that earth is a pancake? That's the issue, not that they have some stupid beliefs, but what they are doing with them.
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Level is not equal flat.
"Gravity has never been understood"
Yes, nobody knows what is actual cause of gravity, but most knows what gravity is: attraction between objects with mass.
"Ballers deny the Earths Curvature formula"
Maybe because its moronic one? its literally is a parabola equation... PARABOLA. And it doesn't even contain 2 essential variables in it: observers altitude and observed object height.
"Ballers are followers of disinformation from paid puntiffs"
Och that irony...
"Ballers are Lazy and have no Common sense of their own Reality"
Damn... This irony... Its strong with you...
"Genesis overrides any science book "
And Harry Potters book override science books too, whats your point?
"The Creator says the Earth Unmovable and Stationary.Case Closed."
Issue is that you cant prove that god is real, that god gives a damn about us, that god ever said anything, that god created earth or us or that your ancient book of fables is actually word of god, which cant even be true because it is full of false claims, self contradictions and bunch of immoral rules you should follow. So yea, Voldemort said so, so it must be true.
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@squadabingo7290
"I excelled in math as well"
Me too, yet you failed in geometry class as it seems.
"How do we explain the eclipses when the sun and moon which are millions of miles apart?"
? Are you saying that objects doesn't create shadow it they are further away? What is your question here?
"How do they line up perfectly"
? Orbit? No idea what you are asking. They don't line up perfectly each time, there are quite big variations between eclipses.
"Have you not seen videos that provide proof that the sun and moon are more local than once taught to us by the establishment"
Have you seen 10000x more videos and more books and more people in general saying that this claim is bullshit? And just FYI we are talking about shape of earth here, so lets stay on this topic. After we can agree that earth is a globe, as this is demonstrable observable fact from reality, then we can talk about distances to the moon and sun. Deal?
"Government worldwide has been caught lying to us on more occasions than we can fathom... agreed?"
You know whats funny? Government is made up of humans, you want to make a claim that just because government lied at some point about something invalidates everything what it said, which essential means that anything what humans say is bollocks would mean that what you say is bollocks too..
Have you lied in your life? I can bet you did. Does that mean that anything you say here is bullshit and a lie? Do you see issue with your broken logic here? And yearth is a globe NOT because some one said so, but because its observable and testable fact from reality anyone can do to verify it. Your childish excuses that its false because government said so is just... childish...
"Why wouldn’t they provide a cover story to keep us locked in a small area(hunger games, elysium)"
Wait, wizards are real because we have Harry Potter movies? Matrix is real? Aliens are real?!!! Damn... I guess everything is true if its in a movie...
" i believe there are more land masses than we are taught and why can’t “regular” ppl explore more."
Cool opinion, but as you lied in your life this is a lie.
Tho to be more serious, cool opinion, but lets go back to reality. Lets for sake of argument imagine that earth is a globe, you know, for sake of argument and not because its a fact. Antarctica is a continent belonging to quite few countries and it was put under general protection where people are not allowed to go there and pollute just because they want too. This was done for multiple reasons and main one is to preserve it as it is with else impact from humans as possible. Now, reality check. You can buy expedition ticket over there. You can buy plane ticket over it. You can buy cruise ship ticket around it. But its still a continent and you will not be allowed to go there without permission in same exact way as you are not allowed to cross country border without going throw customs...
So maybe, just maybe regular people are not allowed there because there is no reason to do so? Do you allow any person who want to enter your house to enter without your permission? Do you? Could i just get into your house, use your toilet, watch tv and then leave without your permission? If i asked, would you let me in? Because if you would ask appropriate institutions for a visit of Antarctica, they will allow that. Have you tried it?
"space and earth beyond the continents without being told to go away(military air aNd land space) once again... thought provoking statements"
Childish statements. You can literally fly over Antarctica... I think is 2k for plane ticket, 5k for cruise ship and I think its 15 or 50k for expedition to the pole itself on foot. So yea, you are demonstrably wrong and quite childish.
"what did I say that’s childish?"
More or less, everything.
"Did I hurt your feelings because you think you know the truth"
Och no no no, you cant really hurt my feelings over internet, i'm not a millennial. And i know that earth is a globe, that's just a fact. Every other statement of yours got demonstrated to be factually false.
"You have no idea what the truth is"
I do, but you dont as it seems.
" You only take information in and believe what you believe"
Talking from personal experience?
Like seriously, do we agree that earth is a globe? No? Can you explain why sun doesn't change perceived size, speed and moves in straight line over a day and actually does that thing we call sunset/sunrise which is only possible on globe model and fails on every step on flat one?
And let me guess, you think that earth is flat because book said so? Or is this because its against mainstream? What is your evidence that earth is flat pancake?
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"I don't think the world is flat , but..."
In most cases anything what was before "but" becomes incorrect... You might be exception, but its funny to see comments starting with something like this and then ending with same exact broken reasoning as any flat earther has.
"For example weather modification!"
Well, we have technology to shoot some chemical compositions into clouds to disperse them. This is not really weather modification, its simple cloud dispersion.
"NASA just admitted there are UFOs"
Correct, we have records of Unidentified Flying Object. Now, for sake of everyone's, read again what UFO stands for... Then try to realize why saying that you have some records about Unidentified Flying Object is nothing special... UFO is not equal aliens... Its literally Unidentified...
"A nation wide (maybe worldwide) human trafficking ring"
Maybe? From where do you get this information?
"The defense department just announced they invented a microchip to put under your skin so everyone will be tracked"
Why would they announce that? If they had any plans to track everyone, which they most likely can do already as everyone own smartphone which has GPS in it anyways... Why would they announce that?
"So many people labeled "crazy conspiracists " turned out to be correct. "
Like what? And its a crazy conspiracy UNTIL you can provide evidence that its not. Just because some one made up conspiracy theory we should not take them seriously, especially if they have 0 evidence to support that.
"As we judge the people who fall into the flat earth web lets also remember sometimes some conspiracies are true and the word needs minds that question"
We need minds that question things, but we dont need minds that question facts. Flat earth claim is just stupid on its core, its claiming that reality is not reality, as for flat earth to be real you would need for magic to be real and everything we observe in reality relating to shape of earth, gravity, galaxies, stars and so on would be faked somehow.
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@MorganHill8
In any case your testimony about Jesus would be the same, you can believe in flat earth, forest pixies, aliens, have 50 Nobel prizes and have IQ of 500, your testimony would still be the same, which is: without actual evidence its only your opinion/claim.
So yea, half way there, we will wait you on our side, dark side, we have cookies!!!
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@markiankchik1338
"well that is not what i was trying to say,"
Yet you said it. You literally said "So what you are saying is that 90% of people are wrong and only a small minority are correct?" which is argumentum ad populum logical fallacy. Amount of people believing X is not indication of it being true.
And to poke your wound here even more, majority of scientists, who have in average IQ by 25 higher then general public, are atheists. And there are basic studies done to show that increase in intelligence leads you to atheism. So even tho i never said what you implied that i said, you are in some way correct.
"what i was trying to say is that you obviously think that you are the smartest person on the planet"
And i never said that... I'm not a smartest, never was and never will be, so avoid misrepresenting what i said while i never said it.
"Rowbotham to prove that earth is flat is exactly the same as you are using to prove that there is no God"
That's false. Like those not even comparable... Shape of earth is a demonstrable, you can literally test shape of earth in multiple different ways and prove its shape with quite nice accuracy, can you do anything like this for God? No. Thing is, we dont need to disprove you god, YOU need to prove that god is real and any claim without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. And then you have basic golden rule: "nothing exist until its proven to exist". Same as you dont believe that unicorns are not real, that magical space pixies are not real and so on. You dont need to disprove them, some one needs to prove that they are real. if you can disprove, cool, bonus for you..
And to be crystal clear here, atheism is NOT a claim that that god is not real, Atheism is lack of belief that god is real, AKA rejection of claim that god is real. Same as you reject claim that bigfoot is real or that unicorns are real and so on.
"And based on this i would say that both extremes are always kind of same, they just dont make any sense lol."
YEs, claiming that earth is flat and that god is real while having 0 evidence doesn't make any sense, i agree.
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@Lux
"I feel that you won't reply because it's too difficult to accept that the first human wasn't brought by the stork "
No, i dint addressed rest of your comments because it would have been huge waste of time. If we cant stay on one topic and we will have to jump all over the board, whats the point. Its already gets a long replies and for me to address 100 sentences from your each reply is just to much of time consuming thing to do... Lets stay on one topic at the time... One claim at the time...
"Common nouns don't feel (a chair doesn't) so are you a chair or a spirit moves your body?"
My brains move my body, feel free to prove it otherwise.
"as I know, the brain is the system that carries information to activate your bones and all your biological anatomy, not your personal desires and occurrences."
As i know, the brain is the system that carries electrical signal to and from it. It can send signals to your muscles (not bones) to make them contract. It can process input from your eyes or any other sensory input your body has, process and react accordingly. This is actually proven fact, by actual science and using actual evidence for it.
Damage brain and it can damage your entire personality, it can change you entirely, what you like and what you dislike. Damage brain and you can loose memories... Which should not happen if there is something else controlling your body which is outside your body... So sorry if reality is to painful for you, but reality doesn't give a sh*t about your personal wants, it is what it is.
"The evolution of hominids is the most stupid thing made official in science"
Just because you don't like it or you failed to understand it, doesn't make it false. Evolution is a fact, observable, demonstrable fact. This is why religious people started to adapt evolution into their religions, to make them coexist, even tho that demolishes quite few things from it, but well, whatever makes them happy.
"it's like a cat taking the shape of a witch with the passage of time."
Its called: argument from ignorance.
You have no idea how evolution works if you think that this sentence of yours is accurate representation of evolution.
"A total irrationality and yet you still believe it and those things are naturalized in schools."
Maybe because its actually supported by evidence and not by some old book of fables?
"Not even bible (old testament) can be credible and you know why. "
Correct, but evolution is true not because some book said so... So... What now?
"If you believe a monkey turns into a man,"
I dont believe that. Why you ask? because this is yet another argument from ignorance of yours, or more likely straw man argument. In any case, logical fallacy.
Humans dint evolved from monkeys, we and monkeys have common ancestor. You would known this if you had any idea what evolution is.
"then why would you deny God when He is about energy, light, air, water, earth, fire and wind?"
Maybe because there are no evidence to think that such magical being could exist? Why dont you believe that Voldemort is real? Its written in a book that he is... Your god and Voldemort share same amount of evidence: none. Yet you accept one and reject another, why?
"most of the time God is represented as a giant light like the sun."
And who cares? i could be represented and giant banana, would not change anything...
"People repeat nature is wise because works surprisingly and intelligently as if a superior entity manages it, well, that's it."
Yet its not. Which part of nature looks for you to be managed by intelligent being? and why?
"I can't prove my experience because you didn't live with me all these years"
Then your experience isint any different from people who claims to be abducted by aliens. We cant confirm their claims ether... So does that mean they are correct?
"Point blank, that belongs to your thirst to investigate and demolish your own myths, not mine."
What myths? Its not me who literally claims that magic is real... Its you... So prove that magic is real, then we will talk about your personal experience and its validity...
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@afterthestorm7012
"In the flat earth model the sun and the moon travel over the earth
in constantly changing rings depending on the season"
I know... This is why those 4 observations disprove flat earth model... They do not match...
"the sun does change in size"
No, its not. It was proven multiple times that its not... And just FYI talking about actual sun size, not a sun flare size... Because this is common mistake flat earthers make...
" It comes down to perspective"
False again. Actual perspective demonstrates that earth is not flat.
"just like looking down a set of railroad tracks"
Yes, and further object is smaller it will get, while sun doesn't change size. https://flatearth.ws/sun-apparent-size like this one, prime example that sun never changes size
"the horizon should drop below eye level but it does not"
While in reality it does... How did you tested this one? I'm like curious now, because i can bet that your test was more or less "Well it looked to me that its on same level"...
"buildings would look like they
are tipping away from the observer but they do not"
? You will get 1 degree lean FROM you every 111 km. ONE DEGREE FROM YOU. Longest photo taken on earths surface was from one huge mountain of another one at distance of 400km or something, so longest taken photo would have introduced less than 4 degrees lean FROM YOU which is literally impossible to detect, atleast not with "This look straight to me" method... Do you seriously think that you should see buildings at 5km at 45 degrees?...
"There should be some videos that haven't been scrubbed from the internet,
explaining all of this more completely"
There are, that youtube by keywords "flat earth debunked" you will get quite few of them and they will provide extensive explanation on all of those silly claims flat earthers make
"Now there are mostly debunking videos"
What videos are you talking about here exactly? You have millions of videos on youtube, you cant find one which explains basic geometry?...
"Why would
they remove them, if they didn't want us to see them?"
maybe because they never did removed them? And even if they did, its internet, you should be able to find anything you want at any place... You have dozens of flat earth web sites... They should contain your videos if they ever existed... But like seriously, what videos are you looking for? And by what keywords you did looked for them?
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@afterthestorm7012
"Don't fall of the ball"
? Its a ball... As gravity is a fact, you cant fall of the ball... But you could from your space pizza.
"Check Gleasons Map"
Yea, what about it? Its flat representation of globe earth... And?
"read Terra Firma by David Wardlaw Scott."
Why? If your best proof that earth is flat to suggest some ones book... Well... then you dont have any actual proof here. I can list you dozens of books written which talks about globe earth.. So what?
"Look up Admiral Byrds "Operation High Jump""
Look up... Reality...
You seriously trying to use some ones personal opinion based on personal experience that earth is flat?...
And do you even know what argument from authority is? Its a fallacy, logical one...
"Look up "Operation Fish Bowl""
Look up science book...
"Check out gyroscopes on planes, ships, and submarines. etc. etc."
What about them? They are self adjusting and compensates for earths curve... if you spent 10 seconds actually fact checking any of this shit, you would not be a flat earther, but you did not... So why should i bother rechecking your offered nonense? You failed to debunk 4 simple things about sun, and you spitting out random things here which cant even be verified, like your magical story about Byrd... Address 4 points about sun, if you manage to explain those without contradicting reality, then we can move to more complex things.
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Dakota Black
"they found Noah's ark in the 80s measuring the same size the bible said it was built to"
? lets set some facts straight here. Global flood never happen based on evidence we have today. So even if there was a boat, that would not mean anything.
Second, how the hell do they know its Noah boat? Does it have license plate on it? Does it glow in dark? And Noah boat was "found" like 50 times already... And every time actual experts investigate that, it becomes yet another false story created by creationists...
"they also found Mt sinai where moses recieved the commandments along with the altar he built to god with all 12 pillars still there just in pieces"
Och, so by your logic spider man is real because New York is real?... having real places will not prove fantasy claims.
"they also found chariots and bones at the bottom of the red sea"
So it was impossible for some one to transport chariots and horses over the red sea and sink? This explanation is less likely then wizard spreading sea apart?...
"tell me how that shit got there"
No idea, same as you, i have no idea, so lets keep it at that until we will actually figure out cause of it instead of making shit up like you just did.
" media will never cover these things but I assure you its 100% living proof of our creator"
Majority of media is run by Christians and some of it by creationists... Yet its not covered by them... I wonder why... Maybe they understand how bollocks it is?
"also if all of this in the bible is true and you can see it for your own eyes maybe other parts of the bible hold truth as well,"
False. Having 9 true claims will not mean that next one will be too... Each claim requires separate evidence, you cant scream that 9 claims before it was true so this next one which claims that magic is real will be actually true just because you like it...
"like how on the first page it says our earth is flat with a dome over it"
Which is demonstrably false. basic observation of sun disproves this claim... And then you have like 100+ other things you can shatter flat earth claim... So you have atleast 2 false claims in your book: flat earth and global flood.
"but dont take it from me"
And i will not.
"pray to god and the truth will be revealed to you my friend."
Why? Is he too lazy to reveal truth? Why the hell do i need to engage in self deception before he could reveal truth to me? I'm following where evidence leads, you made shit up and trying to find evidence which fits that while ignoring everything else...
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"The airplane with the level is one of many ways to prove the earth is flat. "
Yet in actual reality BOTH model would produce same exact results... So how exactly does this level experiment proves that earth is flat and not a globe? What do you expect to observe if earth was a globe?
"Let's not forget the pyramids of giza were built by using the stars"
As related to the shape of earth as caramel icecream...
"This is your curvature theory you round earther."
Your terrible eye sight is not a curvature or even vanishing point...
" Water is flat, which is why we use cups"
What? like seriously, what?
"With over 300 or more satellites in orbit"
Its actually around 6000
" the round earthers would have no problem winning this debate"
And we dont have any problems winning this "debate", it was won 2300 years ago
"One more thing science theory always are changing from this to that"
not always, some times, to more accurate one if new evidence comes along. What's your issue with that? Science is not a religion, if new evidence comes, it will change previous theory to fit new one. Or adjust existing number to more accurate one, like age of earth, its always over 4billion years, its only getting more accurate with new technology we get.
"Then you wonder why the flat earth movement is getting larger and larger."
Its not getting larger, its getting smaller. You simply got means to get into contact with flat earthers across entire world, which isint indication of anything.
I mean, c'mon, lets be real here, i can bet you will even fail to explain how perspective works, let alone provide actual flat earth model without contradictions. You will never prove your case here, we dont live in stone age anymore.
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@chrisross4898
"my friend if I wanted to troll.....don't know what that is. "
If you dont know what that is, why do you imply that you are not doing that?
"In 2002 in Kandahar Afghanistan they killed a giant. Tried to find information about this, the only thing is the soldiers who lived to tell they're story"
So they killed giant and evidence for that is some one saying that it happen?... Ok... Sounds convincing...
And define giant... I once had a long conversation with some one about giants and then he simply defined a giant as a tall person, like 2.2 meters in height... Wow... Giant...
"Back to the point their are people in our government who made deals with the ones in Antarctica that I heard"
Cool that you hear random stories, but do you have any actual evidence here? And how is this related to the shape of earth?
"There is more, they are say that they are portals and they are going to open up this month of March sometime after 16"
So when match ends we can call bullshit on your claim after nothing happens? Atleast you give a short time frame. Usually people simply say that in near future something will happen without specifying actual date, you on another hand have only 2.5 weeks left to be shown to be wrong.
" You dont have to believe in anything that I say to you but it's TRUE."
And i will not believe that and you can say that its true, will not make it so.
"I heard of a report of people going thru portals."
And i heard of a report people being probed by magical forest pixies... I guess i should avoid going to forests from now on...
"I know this sounds crazy."
Yes, if we would scale something from 0 to 10, where 10 is batshit crazy, your claims would be around 8.5
" Look it up for yourself. It on gaia.com."
Why i'm not surprised that your link leads to some site which offers paid services or sells books?... If some one has such world changing information and puts it behind paywall, its more or less 100% chance that its all bullshit. You have been duped, conned, they simply want your money and you willingly give them for some fantasy stories.
"My friend these are scientists, real scientists talking. "
Con artists. They might be real scientists, yet still con artists. And avoid making such argument, its basic argument from authority fallacy.
"If you debunk them, then you are plugged into the matrix"
I dont need to debunk them, they need to prove their case, if they cant, as they cant, then we can dismiss their batshit crazy claims as invalid without any need to present any counter evidence.
So yea, no idea if you are trolling or just got conned by some con artists, but in any case... Its just sad...
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@penguin82875
There is difference between knowing that earth is a sphere and what bible says...
It was you who came here with those verses, cherry picked verses. Actual word is used as "circle", aka flat disk. Majority of translations have been made in that way because this is how it translates, because this is what original writers intended to say, because original writers used their beliefs at that time and common belief was that earth is flat. It was you who failed to give valid verse where it says that earth is a sphere, not me. So give me a verse which actually says that earth is spherical... Not cherry picked translation, but actual verse which actually translates from Hebrew to mean spherical.
Some extra verses for you to think about while you do your homework here:
"Revelation 7:1
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. (KJV) "
"Job 38:13
13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV) "
""He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 104:5)""
""He shakes the earth from its place and makes its pillars tremble. (From the NIV Bible, Job 9:6)""
""Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me, if you understand. (From the NIV Bible, Job 38:4)""
""that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it? (From the NIV Bible, Job 38:13)""
""He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in. (From the NIV Bible, Isaiah 40:22)""
Now, give me one which implies earth to be spherical, I will wait.
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So by your logic we should ignore every single problem in the world and only concentrate on one single biggest issue? So lets ignore wars and concentrate on global warming, because global warming will kill more people? Do you see issue here?
"If it isn’t true and you think it’s so silly than who cares why make this video"
Because unchecked stupidity will cause harm... How do you think religions have been created?... If you allow some one to spread lies you will get even more people believing that nonsense, its called: brainwashing.
"The last I heard the earth was an oblate spheroid. Or pear shaped but I guess not we are back to the round ball? Ok."
Well you are prime example. You never fact checked, you never spend 5min google search to actually figure out why its sometimes labeled as sphere and some times as oblate spheroid or even pear shaped.
So let me do your job here: Earth on grand scale is a sphere, perfect sphere. Its rounder than bowling bawl. On another hand if you would use accurate measurements you will have difference between height and width, which is around 0.33% difference. Which makes it oblate spheroid. If you want to be even more accurate then you will have bottom part of sphere slightly wider than top part, its even less difference than 0.33%, which makes it some what pear shaped.
To put it simply, earth is always a sphere, but depending on how much accuracy you need for the conversation you will ether call it a sphere, oblate spheroid or oblate spheroid which is slightly wider on bottom. Do you get it now?
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@johnlindeman8172
"scientists who are really the modern day priest class"
While in reality, they are not. Science doesn't even come close to religions... Comparing them with priests only shows how ignorant you are on scientific methods. In science you can become famous for proving some one wrong, in religion you can be put to death for simply questioning some one... There is no comparison between them... Never was, never will be.
"Some scientists believe that the more they learn the more they realize they don’t know and that’s why so many things change"
generalising
"I know I can google stuff but I’m not gonna waste to much time on the flat earth more should anyone because these people won’t listen to a single thing you say because it goes against what the believe is fact"
I have learned quite few things while debunking flat earthers claims, i could even dare to say that i have learned more while talking with them then i did in middle school when it comes to physics and any stuff related to flat earthers claims.
"I was watching a NASA video and the engineer doing the video was explaining how they haven’t quite figured out how to get a manned craft to pass threw the radiation belts"
have you watched it without cherry picking one part of it? And do you even know what is this radiation belt? Or how we simply went around it when we went to moon? He is correct that we cant go trow this radiation belt, but we can go around it... Which is not convenient, but with that time technology it was only option. Currently i dont know, there are plans to go back to moon in couple years, so we will see like 4k 60fps video from moon.
But in general, when you get questions like that, simply google it out... Because you literally having issues in understanding what this astronaut meant by it and instead or factually researching it you will simply think that maybe we never went to moon...This is how flat earther is born... Laziness...
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@yestervue4697
"Well?"
What's well? You are not priority in my life, when I'm in a mood to go through youtube comments, I will.
"SHOW me ANYTHING....do it"
I have presented observable things YOU can do yourself. This is basic geometry, its not some random claim you could never confirm to be true, its basic geometry... Yet that was not even for you... So what do you want to get? A ticket to space?...
"If this globe earth is indeed fact we should be OOZING with proof you can see with your own eyes"
And we are. You cant even address basic observation of sun which contradicts flat earth and supports globe, not even talking about dozens of other points proving globe earth, but if you cant even understand basic geometry, which is only requirement for my sun example, then anything else i have to present will fly over your head even more.
"not a single picture of it exists"
We have thousands of those and we have videos. At moment you explain how you determined that 100% of those are fake and present actual method you used to determine this, you simply making shit up here to feel better.
"You guys believe in a religion, a dream that only exists in calculations"
Let me guess, you are Christian? Or some one who has its own religion and a dream that only exists in a book?
"it is a religion and a religion must be taken on faith"
So you admit that you have shitty position here? That your position is based on religion which is based on faith? Well thanks, I already knew this, but atleast now we know that you know this too.
"Do you even understand the definition of faith?"
Thinking that something is true without any supporting evidence? Like flat earth? Yea, i know.
"Does your chin hurt?"
Not really, i have comfortable pillow, sleeped like a baby. You?
"POST ANYTHING YOU CAN SEE"
Again, observation of sun. Can't you see a sun from your basement? Should i pick something different? What's your issue here exactly?
" At least say something original..."
So basically when some one asks: what is 2+2? I should say "banana", because saying "4" would be just same old not a original answer... Ok... Good to know... I will stick to old ways, as i like reality and accurate answers.
"I believe what can be shown..."
Nice, then show us that earth is flat, we will wait.
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@jaynenord101
"Sorry but you can't just say I'm wrong and the 6" per mile squared curvature calculation is wrong"
First of all, it should have been8 and not 6, atleast that is common flat earther claim. Next. This equation creates parabola, not a circle... Third... Where do you insert observers and observed objects altitude? Nowhere... This is why its bonkers to use this magical equation, its worthless at best.
" Please give specific details so we can calculate it and perhaps end the debate there."
Go to google and enter "earth curvature calculator" you will get multiple results with online calculators which actually include ACTUAL equations which SHOULD be used when calculating things like that.
"Gravity is a theory and interestingly the word hypothesis is listed as synonym for theory and vice versa. . . "
Scientific theory is a model created from all known evidence and data, its fact based best current explanation for given question.
Please learn what scientific theory is before you expose your ignorance on this topic again.
"Since admittedly Gravity is a hypothesis only it can not be used to PROVE anything"
Still false. Gravity is a fact. So let me educate you little bit here.
To simplify label Gravity: attraction between objects with mass.
Cavendish experiment demonstrates just like that, there is attraction between any objects with mass, aka gravity is a fact.
"both water properties and the void of space next to the molecules of our atmosphere."
Vacuum doesn't suck... Again, use google or search on youtube, there are dozens of videos explaining that with pictures and stuff....
"Nasa means deception in Hebrew"
Jayne Nord
means liar in trolish language...
Once again, lets educate you on basic reality: N.A.S.A stands for National Aeronautics and Space Administration. Its abbreviation, not some secret word... And... For f**ks sake... NASA is 100% irrelevant to the shape of earth...
"Nasa themselves have admitted to losing the technology"
Yes... It literally burned in earths atmosphere... AKA loosing it... They dint said that they lost blue prints, they said that they lost physical thing... Please, watch entire video instead of cherry picking one sentence from it...
"Please give the exact means by which the land line was connected and how that works in detail please so I can verify the technology."
Can you teach of quantum mechanics in a 2 sentences? No? Why not? Would take too long?... Exactly... We are not here to teach you such things, if you want to learn, go learn... You have access to internet, use it.
"again words have meaning and they are telling you in plain sight what they actually are"
Word "set" has over 300 meanings, so i would recommend for you te rethink your sentence... Like carefully rethink it... Couple times... like 300+ times until you realize how badly you f**ed up here.
"yet not looking as saddened and at a loss for words as those men who should have still been pumped up on the adrenalin from their experience. "
Is not peoples emotional expression become evidence of something?... We know that earth is a globe not because we have astronauts...
"I would also like to know more about how the north star has moved when it is still used for navigation"
Maybe because its movement is really small?... Do you seriously think that north star should have moved to another side or something?... Have you even checked time frame for noticeable change to happen with it?
"Also explain how it is that Galileo was never put to death over his "heretical hypothesis" regarding the cosmology of the earth when that was the normal practice of the day? "
Do you seriously asking why some one was no killed just because he had different idea of earth surface?... Ask religious people... Tho Galileo went into prison for that, so he dint avoided punishment.
"Could it be because he was what today we would call "controlled opposition" ?"
Or maybe because it would be to much for religious people to kill some famous scientist just because he questioned their book?
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And here you go, you will guess stuff instead of actually measuring stuff and getting actual correct results. There is nothing complicated about metric system, nothing... No idea why people are scared.
And we have 12 months mainly due to amount of lunar cycles. There is no good reason to change it now, entire world uses 12 months as standard, switching it to 10 will not bring you any real benefit besides generalizing things with metric system.
Similar thing with clocks, even tho in normal countries you have 24 clocks, US still uses 12h clocks... This could be changed to 10 hours in a day, but it just gets messy, you would need to change minutes too, so 10 hours, 100 minutes in hour, 100 seconds in a minute. So it would be switch from 86400 seconds in a day to 100000 of those, which isint that big of a difference. Would simply things, but it would cost quite a bit of headache to make this switch. And issue is that you kind of need to do it in one go as you can't just have 2 time measuring systems at one time which uses same names, so then it would need to introduce new names for those seconds, minutes, hours, weeks, months and so on... Do you see how much trouble it would cause? This is not the same with metric system, entire world already uses it, we have separate names, entire scientific world uses it, only 3 remaining countries tries to stick with outdated measuring system for no good reason.
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@dreadroberts7283
"you do realize that "gravity" has never been weighed , touched , smelled , or seen right ?"
Have you weighed , touched , smelled , or seen radiation? No? Well then its not real, i have one ticket to Fukushima, you might like it there this time of the year.
And just FYI There is such simple experiment as Cavendish experiment which demonstrates gravity in action. So yea, gravity is detectable. So you are, no surprise, fundamentally incorrect.
"so why does one believe it exists ?"
Because some of us have IQ above my shoes
"because your government school teacher told you it did ?"
No, because globe model matches reality 100% while you dont even have flat earth model without basic contradictions...
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@dreadroberts7283
"i do not know what shape the earth is"
I do... People 2000 years ago knew that... Whats stopping you?
"i have never been far enough away from the earth to get a good look"
And you dont need to. Go to a beach, observe ships disappearing bottoms up and you will have evidence of spherical earth.
Go to your backyard with a sun filter. Observe suns behavior. You have 4 things to look up: Sun moves in straight line across sky, 100% match to globe, 100% mismatch to flat one. Sun moves at constant perceived speed, 100% match to globe and 100% mismatch to flat one. Sun doesn't change size, 100% match to globe and 100% mismatch to flat one. And then you have sunset, 100% match to globe and 100% mismatch to flat one.
Do you seriously think that you can only know what shape is earth by going to space?... Every single observable planet is spherical, but you think that earth could be flat just because?...
What else do you need?
"my comments are only to say belief in another mans words is religion , and man should think hard about what it believes"
Cool, do that, but starting to reconsider something what is factually true is not healthy...
"now you can say this test and that test prove some thing but unless you personally do said test you truly know nothing and are taking another mans word for it."
have you ever seen a sunset?... Because that's enough to disprove flat earth... And yet you want to suggest that people need to question something like that... There is place and time for that, questioning shape of earth is not one of those.
"also i wonder if the cavendish experiment will work if you replace the iron balls with wood ?"
Yes. And it was led, not iron. And led was used for its density, as more dense object will create bigger gravitational pull. Having wood will create gravitational pull, but it might be not enough to counter strings tension which can prevent from this experiment giving you any results at all. Any object with mass attracts another object with mass. Simple as that. Only difference is in how strong this attraction is.
" it would still be to objects but without the magnetic properties of iron."
Again, Cavendish experiment is specifically done with none ferromagnetic materials to eliminate possibility in it attracting each other due to electromagnetism and not gravity. Again, wood could work, but due to its low density it could not produce enough of attraction to make any noticeable effect.
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@dreadroberts7283
Ok, now i see 2 links. So lets begin.
Second link uses nonsensical lens to make a point about disappearing objects over horizon. So couple glaring issues with that. Atmosphere is not a magnifying glass... You can have some distortions, but its not huge magnifying glass.
Next, this example doesn't show objects being broth up to the view with a zoom... So no idea why you give me link to 10 minute video which talks about none existing glass lenses...
Now first one... Are you kidding me? At which point in this video you see ship disappearing over the horizon which gets broth back with a zoom?... You have some one standing on a beach, quite high from water, zooming into a ship which is not over horizon and you posted this link as evidence for you original claim? Are you ok?... Like seriously, are you?... This is not evidence that you can bring ship back to view after it disappears over the horizon, it proves that zoom can magnify things... That's it... Ship is not over the horizon, its still before it...
Now, this is what actual link to actual video which proves some ones position should look like
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSMRhTPMSfk
You have 2 ships on the horizon, one is not yet went over the horizon, another did. Zoom as much as you want will not bring back into view ship which is already hidden by the curvature.
And just one additional note here in response to your second video. Why is this magical glass lense effect is present at same distance (give it or take couple km) independent of weather conditions? You can be in a desert you will have objects disappearing at same distance as you will have them do the same over the ocean. Why is that? If you have completely dry air, how do you get same exact water magnifying effect as it supposedly is over the ocean? Why does distance at which objects start to disappear match globe model?
So yea, maybe another link got filtered out which actually proves your point, but from those 2 links... You failed... And i cant really leave that one, but you seriously think that you could compare water particles in air distributed relatively evenly between you and object you observe with a solid block of glass in middle? Are you even serious here?...
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"Just wondering what actual proof you have it's a ball. "
Sun observation proves that... Not counting in other 100+ proofs based on evidence...
"There is not one single real photo showing it is. "
There are, hundreds of them, even videos. Issue is not with that, issue is that you will reject everything presented for globe earth not because you can prove it to be fake, but because you dont like it. How do i know this? Simple... What method you used to determine that picture is fake?
"You would be killed if you flew anywhere near the North Pole, "
Its 5k or 2k for a plane ticket which goes over south pole, same goes for north one. Tho i think you wanted to say "South" and not "north"...
And you can go there on your actual feet for like 50k. (Still talking about south pole...)
"Gravity is nothing but a theory. Not actual evidence."
Cavendish experiment.
"There are more than one thing the majority of the population believe is true without actual fact. "
Like god?
"Now I'm not a flat earthier"
Yet you are...
"however I do question everything"
Which would be fine if you would not be one who is rejecting evidence because you question everything...
"There are scriptures in the Bible eluding it's flat. "
Right, because bible was written by simple people who lived 2000 years ago... What did you expected? That it will match reality?...
"I challenge you to question all of this "proof" you've been taught. "
We did, still believe in globe earth because its demonstrably true.
"Ever wonder why those who break through with cures and other ways to live die? "
Deep into conspiracies? And how is that related to something you can yourself observe?
"I will stay neutral until NASA"
Why? NASA is 100% irrelevant to the shape of earth... Why do you talk like generic flat earther and bring up irrelevant things and yet you say that you are not one of them?
"NASA can actually show some real prof it's round, not a computer generated photo."
Cool, now debunk every single photo NASA presented and present us your method you used to get to that conclusion. We will wait.
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@thewonderblunder3421
I'm not racist, but...
This is how your comment started. It always looks like anything what was before "but" is a lie.
"I loooooove the concept of "The more you know, the more you don't know.""
Which is misleading. More you know, more you know. That's it. You might get 2 new questions after you got one answer, but that quote implies that you are going back in your total amount of knowledge, while you simply accumulate more questions while getting more answers.
"Space and time = gravity? How would one explain this concept to the general public?"
Who cares? We are not expecting for regular Joe to understand things like this, but to understand how basic geometry works should be expected... Which is more than enough to know that earth is not a flat pancake.
"It's such a tragedy that more people are turning to the simple dependency on their own senses"
This was for like... Ever... Globe model was only introduced like 2300 years ago, while human civilization (well, relatively speaking, as this doesn't really have starting point) existed for like 250 000 years. So majority of time humans used their senses to get to conclusion that earth is flat, but only recently this was replaced with actual scientific method and not personal opinions.
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Texeira Correa
5 comments in a row?...
“Forbes, Scientist admit they don’t know how strong the force of gravity is”
Cool, now get entire article and get context for this one... Tho interestingly enough this would suggest that you do think that gravity is a real thing, there is only issue with not knowing how strong it is?... What difference does it make? You just admitted that gravity is real... Och that irony...
"literally varied results with no constant?!?"
F = (G x m1 x m2) / r^2 , where
F = force of gravity
G = gravitational constant
m1 = mass of the first object
m2 = mass of the second object
r = the separation between the two masses
"You get direction because you are in a fluid that cause you to either go up or down because you or dense or not dense enough I really don’t know why you say it like"
Once again you failed to understand my question here. I'm not asking how things behave, i'm asking "WHY" they behave like that... Why things fall down and not up? What force defines direction? Density is not a force, neter buoyancy. So what defines direction?
"in the beginning there was no time(4th dimension )"
First of all, prove it. Second of all, what difference does it make? you could not even have 3 dimensions... Doesn't make any difference to the shape of earth... And this is quite red hearing from your side, stick to the topic...
"it simple terms having mass doesn’t turn up anything but density does."
? Will make it caps, because you have issues with reading: WHAT FORCE DEFINES DIRECTION?
"the cavendish experiment to this day isn’t used because"
? Dude come back to reality! Cavendish experiment is done countless times, especially in universities. Anyone can do it, you can find dozens videos of this experiment on youtube alone... So avoid repeating this nonsensical statement, you will look even more ridiculous then you look already.
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Texeira Correa
7 comments?...
"hence you saying gravity isn’t constant then showing a formula"
When did i said that gravity is not constant? Do you even read?
"just because someone does it doesn’t mean that the documentation showed already it’s useless dud of an experiment if you can call it that"
It demonstrates repeatability of that experiment.
"It says in big bold letter so even you can read that the 4th dimension isn’t time"
In most common situations you will see all those 4 dimensions: length, width, depth and time.
Tho i still have no idea how this is related to anything... You can debunk Big Bang all day long, will not change the fact that we dont live on flatardia...
" and you failed to explain as simple as I did, it doesn’t have to be complicated"
Having simple answer doesn't make it correct by default. Maybe this is why you think that gravity is false because it too complicated for you to understand...
"You through on gravity I’ll throw on buoyancy"
Will repeat, just for you: BUOYANCY IS NOT A FORCE.
Its on a level of saying "You through on gravity I’ll throw on banana" like that makes it on equal level... Its not...
"you still haven’t explained what gravity is or how it works"
? Seriously, you ether have no capabilities to read or you just some sad internet troll...
But well, lets repeat this one more time: Gravity is a label put on observable fact from reality where objects with mass attract objects with mass.
What it is exactly and what causes that action in particular is still unknown, but we know what it does. Which is perfectly fine and enough to explain all this jazz about spherical earth.
Skipping bunch of nonsense, no point in debunking them for the 50th time...
So, lets go back to your original claim, that you have 50k photos which proves that we live on flatardia. Where are those? Because you can scream like a child here that gravity is not real, that your buoyancy explains something and all that nonsense, but that will not prove that earth is flat. Disproving gravity will not prove your flatardia. So maybe lets avoid wasting time on disproving globe model and lets prove yours? Sounds like a deal? Cool. imgur.com upload your best photo and lets screed it into peaces.
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@answerstotoviasinger6742
"The model of flat earth is not made yet"
Why the hell not? It should be extremely easy to map out flat plane on flat piece of paper. What's stopping you? Reality?
"no rocket has a camera seeing ahead, always seeing back, why?"
Why would it look forwards into space?... Go outside, look up, this is what rockets would see... Would that be productive information to have? No. Its way more interesting to see ground and not to look at sky. When rockets starts to get into orbit those will start flying more horizontally and will include portion of the sky. So no idea what you are complaining here and what point you tried to make.
" the planes dont go to space"
Yes, because those are planes and not rockets...There is a reason why rockets are being used to go into space and not planes... Hint: air density.
"nobody feels the movement"
Correct, welcome to reality. You can't feel motion, only changes in it. This is basic reality you fail to understand. Have you ever been on a plane? It goes like 500km/h and you can't feel that speed, especially if its on cruising altitude, if you close your eyes it will not be any different than being at home in your bed, aside of cabin noise there is no difference, as there is no actual change in speed.
"nobody sees the curve"
We do, like, sunsets are the thing caused by curvature...
"all photos of the globe are fake or not faithful"
Or not faithful? So some are not fake photos of globe? Good to know, atleast you admit that much.
"nobdy has gone to space"
We did, and you just said that some photos from space are real, stop contradicting yourself here.
" they always lie"
Who are they? Lizard people?
"this iswhy russia dont say that apollo to the moon is fake"
Or... Or moon landing actually happen and Russia lost? Like, what situation do you imagine to be if we actually went to moon? Russia screaming that its all fake? Well russia are not that stupid to deny basic reality and make themselves look stupid.
"A lie needs more and bigger lies"
Like religions?
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@samueltriad7103
"Just as society once thought that the earth was the center of the universe and it was common belief it got proven wrong"
Correct, by those same people who proved that earth is a globe, in space, in a huge galaxy, surrounded by billions of other galaxies...
And from where do you think this "center of the universe" came from? Religions... And who corrected this? Science... And what science says about earth? Its a globe... Do you notice pattern here?
"Also experience is the best teacher, so don’t just take everything you hear on the news as fact, do your own research!"
Cool, and basic observation of sun you can perform yourself proves that earth is a globe. So what now?
"That would be my one point to you and others who are too afraid or narrow minded to think outside the box, or in this case outside the “globe”"
Thinking outside box is cool and you should do that, issue is not with that, issue is with denying reality or having 0 understanding of geometry and making positive claims based on that... There are no chance for earth to be flat based on dozens of experiments anyone can perform and dozens of observations anyone can do... Flat earth claim in on same level as to say that water is made up of magical space pixies... It just doesn't make any sense...
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@Nikki67762
"First there was nothing,,, then it exploded!"
Is that should be straw man? Are you trying to create some childish claim no one in their sane mind claimed so you cloud "demolish" it and call a victory? Big Bang is not explosion from nothing, its expansion from already existing energy and matter. Please, for your own sake, learn what you are trying to debunk before you do so, as now you just look silly.
And just side note, didn't your god supposedly created everything from nothing? Are you trying to make fun of your own religion?
"you gotta start with the Big Bang right?"
you gotta start with non fallacious argument.
"Einstein admitted it was his biggest mistake"
Proves jack shit.
"Hesitation Model"
No idea what's that and I honestly don't care. How is that related to anything exactly?
"Oscillation Model "
Again, no idea and don't care.
"Requires Antigravity forces
Never observed"
Nether your god, so i guess we can stop at this? None observed things don't exist? Right?
"I’ve done my homework, "
You might double check logical fallacies and how to make sound and valid argument here. You dint proved/disproved anything here, mentioned bunch of random stuff and thats that. Even if you could disprove Big Bang, that will not prove your god. So go and learn how to make appropriate argument.
"You’re brainwashed by “the powers that be! “"
Says some one who believes in god because got brainwashed by their parents and local church... Riiiiight, its me who is brainwashed... You cant even manage to make sound and valid argument here and you call me brainwashed... C'mon...
"How about Nachmonides? "
How about caramel ice cream?
"You gonna do your homework here or shall I do it for you?"
Not my job to prove you wrong, its your to prove you correct. So, start by presenting actual evidence that your god is real, not that big bang could be false, but that your god is real... Disproving X will not prove Y by default... Logic... Use it...
"How about the speed of light?
Let me guess,,, you believe it’s a constant??? "
How about you bring actual relevant topics here? You like a lost puppy, jumping all over the place without any real meaning. I dont have time to teach you every single thing from entire universe... Pick ONE topic... Even better, present your BEST evidence that your god is real and lets see where it fails. Can you do this?
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@Nikki67762
I understand that you can busy, i'm not in a rush here. I had replies which happened like 6 months later. Things happen.
"I’m into Quantum Physics! Hyper dimensions. "
Into like having actual degree or simply watched few youtube videos?
"Michio Kaku said: "
That's called: argument from authority fallacy.
Skipped everything mentioning names.
"Okay so there are many top physicists and scientists for you. "
And no one cares. Even if Einstein said that god is real, that would not make it so. Some ones personal opinion is not evidence for anything.
"Seeing a baby born"
natural process for which we have complete explanation is some how proves that god is real? How? Why?
"plus he has proved himself to me"
How do you know that its not a delusion but something what actually happen?
"He is our Heavenly Father who created us and loves us. "
Well, you still dint proved that he is real, let alone that he created us. On top of that, if we would go by bible alone, god supposedly killed over 2 million people for shits and giggles, and he would send none believers into hell to be tortured for eternity for simply not believing that he is real. That is not a loving god...
"I don’t view the Bible as religion I view it as a book of instructions"
Like that part that you can own slaves, that you can beat them as long as they dont die? That part which says that you should kill homosexuals, or adulterous? That part talking about burning witches?... Should i continue?...
"Adam and Eve messed everything up so Jesus had to fix it by dying. "
Doesn't make any sense. First of all, by your religion god is all knowing, so when he created Adam and Eve he already knew what they will do, because he made them that way. So punishing some one for action they have been forced to do is just stupid. and Jesus dint died... Do you seriously think that Jesus is dead right now? If you answer is no, then he dint died. All this presupposing that Jesus as a god is even a real thing.
"They couldn’t kill him!!! "
So did he died or not? Can you make up your mind here?... Did he died or not? Was he killed or not?
"Genesis 1:1
Romans 1:20
Ephesians3:9
Acts17:24
Colossians 1:16-17"
Why are you posting verses from bible? What do you expect to achieve here? Like seriously, if i start quoting Harry Potter book, would that make you believe that wizards are real?
"It has 50 scientists that believe in creation. "
50 scientists?!?!?! Och wow, its like 0.001% of all scientists...
Majority of scientists are atheists, and of those who are theists, majority of them doesn't mention god at all in their research. So if you want to go by what scientists say, you will loose.
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@Nikki67762
"astronomy answers that! So does the Bible! "
Answers what? And making claim is not answer. For you to use bible to prove bible would only create circular argument, which is logical fallacy by itself. You need to prove that bible is correct, you cant use bible to achieve this...
"Why don’t you ask him to prove himself to you? "
Ask who? I'm atheist, i dont believe that god is real, so who will I ask? Should i talk with myself? And even then, why should i ask? Is your god so dushy that i have to ask him while not believing that he is real so he could save me from his eternal punishment?... What?
"I think you know he’s real and are trying hard to prove to yourself that he isn’t! "
I know that god of bible is not real, thats for sure. I'm not sure that god in general is not real. But that besides the point. I'm here explaining to people why they have irrational beliefs, this includes you. Even if god is real, even if god of bible is real, your beliefs are still irrational due to your inability to prove that he is real.
Fun fact. Over human history we had over 50000 god claims, so by presupposing 2 huge things here, that god is real and that he is one of those already presupposed, you literally have 0.02% chance in getting correct one. And the fact that humans to create god's, obviously, chances that yours is made up is quite astronomical, while you cant even prove that your god could be possibly real.
"You will have to answer to him someday wether you believe that or not."
Is that a threat? Because its sounds something like "Pay me monthly fee and I will not brake your legs" if he is such an asshole to punish some one for simply not believing that he is real while he never bothered to present efficient evidence that he is real, then yea, i have no interest in a god like this, even if he is actually real.
Funny side note. By bible alone god killed over 2million people for shits and giggles, while devil only 2 after he got permission/instructions to do so from god. On top of this, by original Adam and Eve story god lied while devil said truth. So who is the worst one?
All this presupposing that your god is real and that your bible is accurate, but you got the point.
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@Nikki67762
Youtube notifications are pain in butt... I'm not getting those sometimes too, no idea why, but i have to check old conversations from time too time to make sure that there isint any replies. Youtube does its thing, i guess...
"I study my Bible everyday hun"
Slow reader? Did you got to the part where it says that you should kill homosexuals?
"I UNDERSTAND the Bible!"
I do too, its quite simple: Bible was written by people from that time and not by god or inspired by god, based on a fact that you have bunch of self contradictions, bunch of immoral instructions, bunch of false claims and so on. Unless your god is actually real and he just wanted to make a prank by making bible in a way it is right now.
Like seriously, for one second try to consider small possibility that bible was actually written by simple people from that time and you will realize how every issue you try to explain starts to make actual sense, why its written like this and so on. Just for one second.
"It makes me feel very sad for you but I won’t give up praying for you no matter what you say."
Well brainwashing clearly did its thing on you. Once more, praying has no actual effect, its just talking to your self, better do something what actually gives you results, like plant a tree or something...
But seriously, as you seam to claim to know bible better than me, then please, explain to me how you justify instruction which says that you should kill homosexuals? Or adulterous? Or burn witches? Beat your slaves? I'm curious what excuse you will make here to try justify something obviously immoral.
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"Flat earth is a CIA creation to make conspiracy theorists look stupid"
You dont need CIA to make flat earthers look stupid, they are experts on that already.
"NASA IS lying to us"
based on what evidence?
"They are a bullshit company with a bullshit agenda and have done nothing for years"
Couple inventions by NASA: Camera phones, Scratch resistant lenses, CAT Scans, LED's, Land Mine Removal, Athletic shoes, foil blankets, water purification system, dust busters, ear thermometers, home insulation, the jaws of life (tool, used bi firefighters, usually) wireless headset, memory foam, freeze dried food, adjustable smoke detector, baby formula, artificial limbs, computer mouse, portable computer...
"I think they are hiding our true origin and place in this galaxy"
And i think i can fly. Can I?
" For example try debunking why there are no stars on the moon from the NASA space programs"
Camera exposure time?... Try taking picture of stars at night while having bright object in that same picture... You cant have that... Cameras dont work that way.
"Why do they not take beautiful shots of the earth from the moon"
They took realistic ones. Again, you cant have stars and bright object in same picture without actually using Photoshop and overlapping 2 separate photos to get this beautiful photo you want... This is not how cameras work...
" I could go on and on"
And you would fail again and again... So maybe dont...
"This all sounds crazy"
It does and i showed why.
"Trump 2Q2Q!"
Well, that actually explains allot.
"The background is completely blacked out which is why you don't see stars"
Actually if you had basic knowledge how to use photoshop or any other decent photo editing software, you could crank up contrast to crazy values which would reveal couple stars in those photos.
"But there are missions that are completely faked"
Based on what evidence?
" Those missions you can see the wire holding up the astronauts"
You cant, your imagination and ignorance is not evidence.
"You cant just throw moon conspiracy theorists with in the flat earth idiots"
Why not? Both denies reality, so why not?
"everything can be logically explained through science of the earth being round"
And everything (as i have explained) can be logically explained through science that we went to moon, multiple times.
"Use your brains to decipher truth from fiction, common sense from bullshit."
Well you are atleast not a flat earther, so you are half way throw a bullshit sea.
"Oh btw the earth isn't exactly a perfectly round ball either."
Yet on grand scale its a perfect sphere. Tho its nick picking, so who cares, its still a spherical.
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@baubljos103
"you cannot know what "someone thinks" because you cannot read their mind"
Was I not clear enough?... Ok, will put into different words: What would you call some one who CLAIMS...
"I would call them a person making interesting claims"
Seriously, person who claims that pigs can fly because its written in a Childs book would be interesting claim to you?... Seriously?
"I would not call them bad names - that's what kids do."
Funny enough only kids are afraid of bad names.
"Inter alia, I concur w/u - test the level on ground as a control."
You are joking here? Right? You cant be serious... level on ground as control?... You are joking?
" I believe your "would be" claim is premature and implies bias."
Its like literally what it is... This is literally how level works... It shows deviation from perpendicular position from earths center. Its like saying that because i said 2+2=4 implies bias... What the hell?
" In other words, if you declare (explicitly or implicitly) a preconceived notion about the earth shape BEFORE considering the data then your conclusion may be clouded by your preconception."
First of all, we already know that earth is a globe and that gravity is a thing, so there is no real experiment here to be done. Second, in BOTH models, globe or flatardian one behavior of level would be same, because this is what those models says we should observe... So doing experiment which should produce same results for both models is just... pointless...
"is the term "horizontal" equivalent to "perpendicular from the center of the earth"???"
Definition of horizontal: parallel to the plane of the horizon; at right angles to the vertical.
So yes. Should i explain it in more detail or are we good here?
"AS I understand the term, "horizontal" means parallel to the horizon."
Cool. And? Horizon would be perpendicular to earths center. Should i really explain geometry to you here?
"However, he could and should improve the test - and I support improvement and further testing."
What test? He wasnt testing if earth is flat or globe with that test. So why would you support it in general? Its irrelevant test for what it was performed for. So why would you support tests like that or why would you want to improve it which would not change actual outcome of that test?
"You know, electronic transit levels today have an auto-read mechanism."
And apple released colored mac's... Your point? If we keep talking about random irrelevant things here, why cant we change topic to something more interesting?
You could have 1million worth level with 500+ decimal values precision, would not make any difference here.
Will put in analogy here, you literally talking about tool which have better temperature measurement range when conversation goes about car having square wheels... How is that relevant? What would it change?
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@baubljos103
"I did not see the pig claim, so I reject your premise."
Its not premise, its analogy...
"No I'm not joking because a control group is an element of scientific hypothesis testing. "
Its quite interesting, you seam to have this mental defense here where i will point out absurdity in your comment and then you will return with a valid sentence which is not a direct answer to original one. Yes, having control is needed when you perform experiment, but that was NOT the point i was making here... Placing level on ground to have this control point is just stupid. Should I explain why or maybe you can understand it by yourself?
"Did you test that hypothesis on Antarctica? "
? What the hell does Antarctica has anything todo with anything in here? Are you saying that gravity works differently in Antarctica?... What the hell? Are you drunk or does this random sentence generator you have in your head just comes up with random sentences by itself on regular basis?
"Who is "we"? "
Normal people. People with basic knowledge about reality and how to test shit.
"If you want to represent other people then I want to see their written authority allowing you to do so"
Damn... How thick headed are you? Did I said that I represent others? Its like you desperately trying to discredit anything I say while miserably failing on each step... Its quite sad...
I don't need their written word saying that i can simply point out that majority agrees with what I'm saying here.
"So - PLEASE - go ahead and explain gravity."
Well you clearly dint aces gravity, so let me to educate you about it. Gravity is a label put on observable and testable phenomena where object with mass attract objects with mass. This was demonstrated and proven with experiments like Cavendish.
"You might find that Flat Earth theorists have some interesting gravity arguments related to the putative gravitational pull of the moon"
Who cares? Why should we care what some random person thinks reality to be when they cant present any evidence to support that?
"Young Earth Creationists argue that because the Moon gravity was not strong enough to keep the moon's alleged orbit constant they've actually calculated that the earth must be much younger than is commonly claimed"
Personal ignorance is not evidence for anything. This claim was debunked long time ago.
"So - there's some interesting gravity arguments out there in addition to yours."
Interesting arguments? No, not really. There are bunch of empty assertions based on personal ignorance and personal incredulity, but nothing interesting about those.
" Your claim was "Horizon would be perpendicular to earths center..." But the definitions don't read that way, because you alluded to "perpendicular" but the definition gets at "vertical""
Draw a circle, because you might even understand 2D, place a point in center, draw a line towards circle side, you will have reference line which will be the vertical one, then you can make line which is 90 degrees (perpendicular) to that original one and you will have horizon line. So that horizon line would be what bauble level is showing. Should i explain it one more time or are we good now?
"Seems to me that you are not really prepared to determine what is relevant to what the test administrator intended to achieve."
Isint thats the entire point in performing tests? If i want to measure buildings height and i start performing tests how animals bread, why would that test be relevant? You keep talking about some unrelated shit like that could impact main question here...
Ok, as you seam to like making shit up as you go, please explain how would having digital self recording level change outcome of plane experiment which was done to "prove/disprove" earths shape in relation to using basic level?
"I have not decided whether a level test is relevant or not."
So then you might know less about reality then you think. You might start looking into globe model, how it works, what it predicts, how gravity works and all that jazz, after this you can come back and apologize for wasting time with your nonsensical "arguments".
"I'm inclined to favor the level test because I like people who test hypotheses."
Riiiight, so you might like people who tests forest pixies too... Different than you some of us dont really like wasting time on crazy/ignorant peoples claims. We know that earth is a globe, thats simply a fact. Having different opinion about established fact isint interesting in any shape or form.
"AS to your "analogy" I did not find it compelling."
maybe because you are failing to understand even basics, like the fact that having level on a plane, even if its digital self recording with 50 decimal points, would not prove/disprove a shit when it comes to the shape of earth. You cant even understand that, so no wonders you failed to understand my analogy here.
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@baubljos103
"She said that if other don't comprehend your points - it's your fault"
Exactly what i was talking before, you keep adding some random stuff and now you simply saying that it my fault that you failed to understand basics here... Ok... Doesn't change the fact that you failed to understand basics here...
"If you don't like the "control" then you are free to propose an alternative. "
Why would I? Your "experiment" is pointless and would not prove anything. Having some control point for your level is meaningless in any case. You can have most accurate level in the universe, will not change the outcome of your experiment...
"But you failed to do so, which seems to imply that you oppose a "control"."
I'm not oppose to have a "control", I'm opposite in performing experiments which are useless.
"But I support the "level" test and I support other tests as well."
And i support caramel ice cream. What's your point?
"I asked if you've tested your hypothesis on Antarctica because Antarctica is a key factor in the Flat Earth Theory."
Why? Why would Antarctica have any impact on a level test? Why do you keep making nonsensical side steps over and over again? Will your next comment be about me going to moon and checking if some one landed on it to prove moon landing deniers that they are wrong?... C'mon... You sound more and more like some internet troll here...
"To which I say - 1st - even if they are "normal" - you failed to provide any proof that they authorized you to speak on their behalf. 2nd, you failed to prove that they are "normal". "
1st, i dont need their permission to say that i agree with them. Second, normal is something what is in majority. Hundreds of years ago it was normal to believe that earth is flat, it was wrong belief, but it was normal. While going back to reality, majority of people are educated enough to know that earth is not a pancake under the magical dome or something.
Are you some one who thinks that earth is flat or globe? If you know that its a globe, then you belong to normal people group, so you are part of "we". if you are not a normal person, then you are not part of that. So which one are you?
"You allege the insult "... How thick headed are you? ""
Ok.
"When you make a claim about "WE" - you are representing others. On doing so, your opponent is rightfully entitled to ask for your authority."
Which is false. I can happily say that we as a humans agree that we should not kill each other. Should i get written confirmation that i can say this too? I'm static basic things here where I agree with majority on specific topic, i'm not saying that i'm representing specific group of people and anything i say will apply to them... Why its so hard for you to grasp this basic thing?
"Without authority from your so-called "majority" you have not proved that they agree with you."
Jebus... Should i get some statistics to prove that i'm correct here?
"Also interesting that now you seem to support testing, whereas you seem to have opposed the level test."
That would be a straw man fallacy. Have you ever read what that means? You seam to toss some fancy words and names all over the place, yet you dont even know that you should not make basic logical fallacies here.
"For example, the tests could possibly be performed in outer space, or possibly at the center of the putative globe"
So like I said before, your personal ignorance isint evidence for anything. You don't need to perform Cavendish experiment in outer space or in a center of earth. Entire point of that experiment was to demonstrate that objects with mass attract objects with mass, where it was done will not impact actual results.
"The basis of the claim was not personal ignorance, the basis was the moon's alleged distance from earth. As such, your claim is false."
We, yes, we can calculate distance to the moon with 2mm accuracy, its not alleged distance from earth, we know what that distance is exactly.
And to got this basic thing through your thick head, "we" would be a human race in general, "we" as a accumulated knowledge by humans.
"I find the arguments and counter arguments are interesting."
Then you do you, i like actually meaningful arguments, you like random speculations and you like to waste time on those random speculations.
"Your analogies have failed previously, and you've previously resorted to fallacy and misrepresentation. AS such, I do not accept further analogies from you. "
So not only you failing to understand basic things here, you cant even understand analogies... Good to know.
"You are - essentially - advocating censorship. I reject that . "
Censorship? Are you drunk?
"I say the post is open to the public and anybody can reply."
Yes, you can reply, but when you start misrepresenting what other said and waste time with nonsensical irrelevant arguments, some apology could be nice to see. But you do you.
"You are not "we""
You keep repeating same point over and over again. Why? Do you think i will not get your objecting from first 5 times you said this? Or do you think that repeating something will make it true by default?
Tho funny thing about that word "we", definition would be: used by a speaker to refer to himself or herself and one or more other people considered together.
If you want I can get my GF written agreement that I can represent her about this specific topic and that she agrees with what I'm saying, so my usage of "we" is 100% accurate and your childish objection to it is just... Childish... Tho ironically you did complained about bad word usage which i said to only be issue with kids... So yea... ironic, I know...
"I understand precision because I was instructed in precision in calculus physics and statistics, among other courses which I ACED."
And? Are you saying that just because you got good grades you cant make a mistake? you could have 50 Nobel prizes will not make you correct on everything by default... If you ever aced anything relating to logical fallacies you would known this... So maybe go and learn that one instead of calculus?
"I've used extremely sensitive and precise measuring devices in testing hypotheses. So I claim that I do understand."
Sorry, but you don't understand. Having digital level for that plane "experiment" is as useful as having red shoes while measuring buildings height... How accurate your level is in that plane experiment will not change outcome of it, because that plane experiment will not prove anything in ether way. So your entire argument falls on its face.
"I reply that you failed to engineer and compose valid analogies and you failed to defend your analogies."
You dont need to defend your analogies, those are analogies... Do you even know what analogy is?
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@baubljos103
"If I failed to understand your claims the responsibility is yours, according to my instructor, because you composed your claims"
Does that make me wrong? If i say that 2+2=4 and you fail to understand this, would that make it wrong?
"The mere fact that you don't recognize a point does not mean that a point does not exist."
Then explain how would this plane experiment by using most accurate level in the universe would prove/disprove shape of earth? If you cant explain this basic thing then your experiment is pointless for the question given.
"And I asked if you've tested that hypothesis on Antactica because Antarctica is a significant location in FE theory"
You keep repeating what you said without actually explaining why it even matters... What difference does it make where i perform that experiment? As earth is a globe, what difference there would be to perform it in Antarctica? And if earth was flat, what difference would be then?... Like seriously, you keep coming back with some random irrelevant sentences here and then never actually explain why you even mention them...
"But if you want to make claims and not test them - that's fine with me"
Talking from personal experience i see. Tho that wasn't my claim or position, so thanks for yet another straw man.
"Based on my review of your claims here I infer that your claims and your reasoning are defective."
Says some one who thinks that we need to use digital level for this pointless plane experiment... Riiiiiiiiight, it is my reasoning which is defective... Whatever helps you sleep at night.
"My understanding of normality arises from the Statistics course I Aced"
You keep mentioning that you aced something like that would make any difference in your arguments... If you ever aced area relating to sound and valid arguments you would known that your "aced" is irrelevant. So you clearly dint aced more important thing here.
"And I'm inclined to infer that your claims about "normal" are fallacious."
You can infer, but until you can actually prove it to be false, we will stick with my claim.
"You made another "...thick headed ..." insult."
I did. Does that hurt? Will you go an cry in a corner? Why do you keep behaving like a child and crying that some one used words you don't like?
"Ok so you know how to insult people."
I do know how to insult people, but that wasn't meant to be an insult. If you think that it was... Och boy, you clearly never been in a real world and never heard actual insults...
"You claim "... Having digital level for that plane "experiment" is as useful as having red shoes ..."
Reply. I disagree."
Care to explain why? Or is this on a 3 grader level where you put your fingers in your ears and scream that you are correct and everyone else is wrong just because you said so?
"You ask "Do you even know what analogy is?"
Reply. Yes."
Care to elaborate your knowledge about it and explain why I should defend my analogy? Because if you know what analogy is then you would know that it doesn't require defense, its analogy and not a claim/argument...
Its interesting to see pattern here. You keep coming back with basic: "nah i'm correct and you are wrong" ok, care to support that statement? Care to explain why you think to be correct or to think that i'm wrong? Care to explain why would digital level have any impact on plane experiment? Or will you keep this childish behavior?
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@baubljos103
"You might be correct twice a day, but you could possibly be not right at all."
And?... You keep making some random irrelevant comments here... Over and over and over again... Why? Is this your intention or does it come naturally for you?
Your entire clock example, not analogy, is pointless and not relevant to the topic or to anything i said here, you simply make an example about broken clock being correct twice a day and maybe not even that in case its still some what ticking... Ok... Cool... And?...
"Whatever explanation I might try to provide you would be a waste of my effort"
So basically you are trying to say that you have perfect explanation which could stop my questioning why you made that silly comment but you will not provide it because i will not accept it?... Maybe before you start talking in behalf of me, for which i dint give you my written permission, and actually present your explanation and then we will see if i will accept it? Right?
"Levels test level, but the Globe Earth Theory is based on roundness."
Level tests level, which would be 90 degrees from earths center. So your word play is childish at best.
"Levels that I use test lines that are not necessarily horizontal, in other words lines that are sloped."
That still uses same exact principle as generic level... you still measure that slope in relation to the earths center.
"But you have already argued that you oppose the type of levels that I use, and that level is perpendicular. "
What is the reference point for your sloped levels? Is it banana? Is it apple? Maybe sun? What reference point do you use when you determine that this slope is X degrees?
"the person who Aced physics, calculus, statistics"
You keep repeating that like it has any relevance here... Argument stands on its own, not on who said it. Your aced physics, calculus, statistics will not change your argument, your argument is flawed even if you had 50 Nobel prizes and you would be some one who aced 50+ other categories. So why are you repeating same irrelevant information here?
"But you seem to oppose testing - and you cite your reasons."
Still a straw man fallacy, its a logical fallacy, but you should know this already as you made it before.
"Yes - you can draw 2 lines on your paper and claim they are perpendicular. However, your perpendicular lines are hypothetical, it's below the theory level."
Do you even understand what perpendicular is?... How the hell drawing 2 lines which are 90 degrees from each other would not make it perpendicular when this is what it is by definition of perpendicular? How often do you make shit like this?
"Applying your perpendicular hypothesis to a Globe Earth Theory, requires testing"
It requires knowledge of geometry you clearly dint aced.
" From a statistical point of view, a single perpendicular point compared to an infinite multitude of non-perpendicular points raises the potential for mathematical inference."
Its not a point, its that same width of your level. You have perpendicular short line, aka level. But now you just starting to play childish word game.
"Then there's the issue that a line is only 1 dimension"
And then we have issue that banana is yellow... At this point, you ether a internet troll or just some confused one, i will give it 50/50 chance.
When will we start talking about caramel ice cream? As that one seams to be related to the topic as any of your comment in here, so atleast we could talk about tasty food.
"Have you ever seen a suckling baby pulled from mammy's titty?"
Have you ever seen monkey throwing shit?
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@baubljos103
"Generally the "broken clock" analogy is used to address the issue of being "wrong" or "right" without a reliable formula for reasoning. "
Cool, now explain how this side track relates to the main topic here?
"Reading your claims has un-motivated me."
Truth hurts?
"And then you admonish me for doing what you've done "...before you start talking in behalf of me, for which i dint give you my written permission...""
Just using your own silly rules against you. You dont like that? Then avoid making such silly rules.
You keep repeating that i'm against tests or having base ground, while i have repeated that I'm not against that multiple times by now. So why are you keep trying to misrepresent my position even after you got correct?
"You seem to be missing the point, that only a single point on the level is putatively perpendicular. "
And? Its a reference point in any case and entire level is built to utilize that one single "point" to show at which angle you have more or less perpendicular angle. You side tracking is just amusing at this point.
" It's not like you've actually been to the center.
"
What? Mars doesn't exist because we never been there?... Yes, this is accurate analogy for your statement... Just because we never been at center of earth, doesn't mean there isint one... Center of earth is... Center of earth... Center of sphere... Center... Do you understand what center is? You do realize that not traveling to the center of earth will not imply that center of earth doesn't exist? Right?...
"Problem is that drawing pictures on paper does not test the hypotheses that you claim. "
If you cant even grasp basic geometry on 2d plane, how the hell would you grasp it on 3d space? Learn to walk before you attempt to run...
"According to the perpendicular picture you drew - there's only 1 point of intersection of the 2 lines. Now you seem to be claiming there's a multitude."
First of all, i dint drew any picture here, but i might, as you seam to have trouble by using your imagination, maybe you want to ace that one next time. Second, having level and its width is just a nice simplified representation of perpendicular line. But you failed with that one too, so i guess we are done with that topic.
" A yellow banana does not change the fact that line is 1 dimension but the earth is 2 or 3 dimensions, maybe more"
And? Your side tracking to say that i'm talking about 2d while earth is 3d would be a irrelevant,. again, side track. BEFORE we start talking about 3d space, YOU will have to understand how things work in 2d space. After all, 3d would be extra step and complexity above 2d space, so until you get basic understanding about this topic in 2d we cant move to 3d space. So your another thing to ace would be geometry in 2d space.
"I did see at the neuropharmacology lab a scientist had cut the skull off of a monkey head and implanted various wired electrodes for testing."
No no, it was instance on YouTube, cant remember if it was literal video or just some one in comment section doing that figuratively. Who knows, more investigation is needed, which is currently in progress.
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@scottheller1663
"You goona get vaccinated?"
Why not?
"You believe the covaids story?"
What?
" Trust fauci?"
What?
"Cant fix stupid"
True true, atleast we agree on one thing here.
"Well, what the fuck happened? We lost the map?"
We went there, investigated, found nothing in value or interest, we stopped going because each trip costs over 23 billion bucks... Its not cheap trip... Especially when there is nothing todo there...
"Go ahead, haven't been back in fifty years, goin back soon...."
Yes, going back soon, in couple years, to establish base on moon similar as ISS currently is in earths orbit.
"You've apparently already got it all figured out. Funny youth."
Ironically enough, yes. You have been brainwashed, nothing new here. Younger generation have more knowledge about critical thinking then you because we use internet more than you and we look for information more than you. Better education you get less likely you will be religious, because you know what is critical thinking and belief in god doesn't flow with critical thinking...
No one ever managed to present evidence for god's existence, no one even managed to prove that god could be actually real, yet you think that its more likely because some ancient book said so... C'mon... lets be real here... You simply want it to be real independent if it is.
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@ReturnOfHeresy
You dont need to verify everything. You can simply verify what you can, if that agrees with previous claims and results would lead to the conclusion of claim, you have good basis to take experts word. This in general only applies for natural claims. Like for example if i said that i have pet dog, you can take it on face value, as we know that human can get a pet dog, that dog's exist and so on, so there isint anything to indicate that i'm lying. If i said that i have pet tiger, well, this might require some extra fact checking, like basic checking where i live, do laws in my country allow pet tigers and so on. If i said that i have invisible fire breathing pet dragon, then you can straight away call bullshit and request actual evidence.
There are levels of trust, not just black and white. I dint investigate Big Bang theory in every aspect possible, but from everything i know it sounds quite a reasonable conclusion and I'm fine with that. Even if that gets shown to be false, it will not alter my world view that much. But if earth is actually true, then everything breaks apart, everything i can observe with my own eyes is a lie, so that would require allot more evidence to convince that its even possible to be real.
Like basic observation of sun shows that earth cant be flat. This is one of many things which can disprove flat and prove globe, but its enough to atleast dismiss entire flat earth claim.
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@justnoah2073
Well voting for Trump was voting for something different, to go against mainstream, same thing with flat earthers, quite few of them simply want earth to be flat because its against what government says. I don't know exact statistics but i can bet that you will have more flat earthers amongst flat earthers then amongst normal people.
I have no no idea what type of statistics he used here, but by my knowledge there are around 2% of flat earthers from US or globe population, cant recall exactly, but it could have been US, because most polls are done there. In any case, it is around 2% which would make sense. He might have included people who dint had any opinion about earths shape or people who never thought about it, like if you asked some one without education what is the shape of earth, more or less all of them will answer that it is flat because it looks like one. Doesn't mean they are stupid and we are doomed, we just need better education system.
Its hard to find decent research in how many flat earthers we have, because its quite useless thing to investigate. And we will always have stupid people, but due to access to internet we have quite few of them grouping up and making big fuss while actual number of them should be decreasing due to access to information.
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Kevin Moyer
"Is this your first time hearing about flat earth?"
Sadly, its not. I was "debating" flat earthers some time ago, then i realized that they have little to none understanding about basic geometry, so i stopped and found some what more logical people: theists... Tho that one started to look similar to what i had with flat earthers, some what better, but not really. This video showed up in my recommendations, so i watched it, then started to comment, duno if it was good idea...
"I'll take the time tomorrow and destroy those stupid links you posted"
Och, this will be fun to watch. I wonder if you even understand basic geometry. I need to get some popcorn or something.
"Then when I'm done, you won't reply (with anything of value)"
I have more links, tho you will not even manage to disprove those i provided, so no need. But in general i'm not the one who stops replying. Unless youtube decides not to put your reply into notifications... Which happened multiple times already with other conversations which sucks... As i have to manually go throw old conversations to check if there are any replies...
"And you'll disappear, like the rest of them"
NEVER!
"You'll hear from me soon"
Why not now? Its literally takes like 2 minutes to make a comment, even tho you already made one right now... And instead of actually debunking atleast one of the links you ended up with pointless comment announcing that this magical destruction will come on later date... I can wait... But i'm always baffled with people who makes comment to announce that they will make a comment... Ok...
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Kevin Moyer
"and you never mention the basic geometry that I'm explaining to you"
Ok, lets test your basic geometry understanding:
1. What curvature should we expect to see if we would lived on a such huge spherical object as earth and we would be on its surface?
2. Should sun size change throw day if we lived on flat plane and sun circled around us?
3. is it possible to bring back object with a zoom when its disappeared over the horizon?
4. is it possible for sun to be hidden over horizon if we live on flat plane?
I have quite few more, but lets see if you manage to answer to those ones.
"there will need to be 7.98 inches per mile squared of curvature"
At which place in this "equation" you insert observers height? Because without that this is worthless number when we are trying to apply it in reality. Right?
"And you don't address the 12 mile observation of the geothermal stations"
because i have no idea how far that object actually is or how high photographer was. i will not trust flat earther who will try to twist reality to his needs... This is why i presented photos and videos which are independent from what i could say about them, like height at which it was taken. Because that becomes irrelevant when you can see obvious curvature.
"or the 275 mile observation of the world record long distance photo"
Och that one... Do you know what it was photographed and from where? Will help you out here: Big mountain from top of big mountain... Did you ever wondered why it is like that? Why do you need to go up and photograph something tall to get this distance record? Maybe because earth is not flat?
"then you claim you won't see any curvature left to right in your vision"
On surface of earth, you will definitely not see that.
Och, one another question from basic geometry: When you increase circle radius, what happens with its edge line? Does it sustain its curvature or does it starting to flatten out until you cant really notice that it is curved?
"Its pretty clear who's not understanding geometry and looking at all the evidence"
Och, this will really be fun after you fail to answer to all those basic questions!
"'ll get around to explaining to you why your links are wrong, but I've had company the last several days"
Cool excuse... But that would took you less then it took you to make those 2 comments... Why cant you explain why first one of Toronto is wrong without spending 1 week with preparation for that?
"I haven't had the time to completely make you look foolish"
Yea, you have been busy by making yourself look foolish, its understandable... I can wait... No rush... Globe earth will not go anywhere anyways...
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@foreverbooked2964
Well you have right to your own opinion, but you don't have right to your own facts. Belief is not a choice, you ether believe or you don't, i cant choose to believe in magical space pixies farting out universes after eating tacos, this is not how reality works. And core issue with religions is not that you have people having those beliefs, but that those individuals will use their beliefs in their daily actions, which in case its based on fantasy, will more likely cause harm than good to others. I have no issue with some one believing in god is he is living alone, his entire life, but this is not the case, you will effect others with your belief and we should eliminate false beliefs as many as possible.
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@foreverbooked2964
"Because I do not fully know if gods exist or not"
Knowing and believing are 2 separate things.
"But i guess why for the time being I believe they exist is because they give you a sense of hope"
So you just want it to be true independent if its actually is true?
"Even If that's running away from the harsh truth, i couldn't care less about it"
Which is main issue with religions. You hide from reality. Its like when some hurricane goes throw thousands of people houses and instead of actually doing about it and helping people you simply pray... Praying doesn't work, has no effect on reality. Same as believing in something what you cant demonstrate to be true but you will make decisions in your life based on that will lead you to more destructive route.
"The sense of security stays with you forever"
False sense of security. You are not secure, you simply think that you are, which, again, is dangerous. Jumping from a building and having sense of security that your imaginary thing you call god will save you will result in quite predictable way... Splash...
"At the same time, I have nothing against atheism"
if you are rational then you cant have anything against atheism, as its just a rejection of empty assertion that some gods exist.
"both atheists and theists are equally correct and equally wrong."
False. Atheism is not a claim that god is not real, atheism is rejection of your claim that god is real. We are not on equal grounds here, not even on same category. Its not 50/50 that you are correct and i'm wrong, you cant even give chance value in how likely god is real, so you cant calculate any probability from that. But share fact that your position requires for literally magic to be real, you are on terribly low footing here
"consider me as somewhat an in between."
You ether theist or atheist, you cant be in between.
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@foreverbooked2964
"You forgot to quote that I also separate my contemporary from my religion"
But you cant. Your beliefs will effect your actions and your thoughts even if you try actively separate them. In one or another way, it will have effect.
"I loved how you ignored it."
I did not, i simply skipped it as it was irrelevant.
"I never said that I want it to be true irrespective of whether it actually is. Dont take it out of context you're complicating matters for yourself."
So when you said "Even If that's running away from the harsh truth, i couldn't care less about it" was what exactly?
"Because I know going to deep into religion or being overly religious is harmful."
Yes, and your smaller amount of religion only lowers harm, not eliminates it.
You seam to agree with me while at same time attempt to disagree...
Religions are based on personal opinions and not on reality, this can't get you any actual value. Like for example, if you encounter some one believing in Santa you would look at this person strangely, yet when you look at yourself believing in pretty much same exact thing just labeled as "god(s)" its seam to you perfectly fine. Why is that? is believing in Santa until you die at age 90 gives you only benefit without any harm?
"The sense of security is enough"
Which is dangerous when you think that you are secure while you are not. Correct?
"As I said earlier I believe gods exist but they left the universe to work on scientific principles."
Which is purely based on your personal opinion and not reality. So why would you believe that?
"And yes there are people who are in between. There might not be a term for it."
yes, its called: nonesense.
You can only be one of two things: theist or atheist.
Its impossible to have another option. You ether believe in god(s) or you dont. That's it. Your "i dont know" is not part of theism, so dont mix those ones. Its binary option, not a quantum mechanics with infinite positions..
"But these people are like me who KNOW science is real but only BELIEVE that god(s) are/were real."
So you are theist. Full stop. You are not in between theism and atheism, you are theist.
"Why do atheists always assume that all religious people are religious fanatics who see god as the only answer and completely disregard science?"
Why do all theists assume something what atheists never claimed to be?
I dint said that you are fanatic in any sense, what i actually said that your personal opinion about reality will cause more harm than good because its not based on reality. You could be some one with 50 Nobel prizes, would not change my point.
"what problem do you have with a person who believes in gods but also believes in science"
in general nothing, in some sense i dont give a flying f**k what people believe, issue is what you will do with your beliefs. You could believe in space pixies farting out universes, would not care if you lived alone your entire live, but you are not, you live amongst others and you will spread your personal opinion about god's to others like its some fact from reality or this belief will effect your actions in one or another way. This is the issue.
"I mean, they are not doj you any harm, as opposed to people who only rely on religion and never on science"
So you want to say that 9/11 was performed by flat earthers? You have quite few religious people who accepts science while believing literal interpretation of their book. Yes, its contradictory to accept science and believe in literal interpretation, but we are talking about religions here, not about actual scientific approach...
Just to be clear here, if i sound harsh, well, sorry, but it just tingles my spider senses when some one tries to put science and belief in god(s) on same level when they are not even from same category. Science is based on reality, belief in god is based on your fuzzy feelings in your balls. So in general i cant see some one who is actually intentionally rational and knows how science works and at same time thinks that god(s) are real. That just doesn't add up.
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@foreverbooked2964
"No I am talking about the many atheists who say that all theists are fanatics who'll do anything in the name of god. "
? Its like for me to say "I'm talking about many theists who impose their fantasy on others"... First of all, not many, poor choice of words, in both cases, theists or atheists, you only have tiny part of them who behave like that. But lets not generalise everyone on a small portion, just a friendly advice, after all, you would loose comparison like this, badly.
"That's great but as I said I assure you, I will never do anything stupid or idiotic in the name of religion."
Yet it wasn't my point. Any belief you have will effect your actions even if you are not avare of this.
"As I said I dont know if that's true because science hasn't yet predicted what happened way before, in nothingness"
Doesn't that make it god of gaps argument? FYI Its a logical fallacy.
"The moment we know for sure that gods never existed at all, I'll turn to being an atheist."
And this is your fundamental issue. Actual rule you should follow is: Everything doesn't exist until proven to exist.
In you case you believe in god(s) until some one manages to disprove them... Which is not how rational human should actually approach things like that.
"that's because i know Santa isnt real. But the same can't be said about gods"
Can you prove that Santa is not real? No, you cant. Can we prove that God is not real? No, we cant. Yet, you accept one and reject another. Why? They are on same exact level, both made up by humans, both have no evidence and both can be real or not.
"As I said before, we dont know what happened way way before."
So then say "I don't know" and not "i don't know there for god did it", this is god of gaps argument 101, aka argument from personal ignorance or personal incredulity... In any case, its a logical fallacy, unless you are not interested in logical fallacies... Are you?
"And man you sure do type long comments."
Yes, i do. Well, i have to. When you make bunch of sentences and each of those needs to be addressed in atleast one sentence or more, you will have long response. I could skip some of them, but then, skipping and not addressing them would kind of imply that i agree with you and you are correct, which is not the case.
To sum up issue with your particular world view: its based on logical fallacy.
if you are not interested in being logically consistent, then its fine, keep your belief, but that is not a scientific approach in any sense. Saying that you will stick with god until some one proves it false when you never proved it to be true, is logical fallacy. By this logic you can believe any crazy thing until some one manages to disprove it. While at same time your particular belief is more or less unfalsifiable, which means that it cant be shown to be false, yes, you cant prove that god(s) are not real, so you literally picked position which cant be shown to be false and your criteria to stop believing in it is when some one does impossible... Do you see issue here?
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@zepkauvaka8316
"your condescending talk down on me is laughable and I'll let it go seeing you resort to ad hominem"
Stating facts is not adhominem. You literally don't understand basic physics here, I'm not saying that you are wrong because you are ignorant, I'm stating the fact that you are wrong and you are ignorant about this topic.
"since you can never humble yourself and admit you can't and will never be able to prove a GLOBE EARTH"
First of all, i can, but then what's the point. We already established that at this moment in time you lack of basic knowledge about basic physics. You can count this as adhominem if you want, but currently its like teaching a child about nuclear fusion reactor, you can explain it as many times as you can but you will still not get any results because child needs base understanding of some fundamental physics before we can talk about anything more complex. In this case you lack basic understanding about basic physics, so i have no idea where we can go from this point on. I'm not here to teach you middle school science, i'm not getting paid for it... So maybe learn that and after you do, return and we can have a talk.
And just FYI basic observation of sun proves globe earth which only requires 1 buck solar filter and some spare time, you dont even need to do any actual calculations. If you can grasp this basic concept then we can move into anything more complex then that, but if you cant, then there is no point. Learn to walk before you try to run.
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@shedroids
"Just like your name"
What about my name?
"Why do you think it's a globe---> when did you last get a look!!"
Have you been outside of your basement?... Sun has 4 glaring (cha, pun) proofs that earth is globe and not flat. Simple observation of sun proves that. Not even talking about couple dozens of other things which proves globe earth and disproves flat one.
"Now, I am just an "earther"..."
Ignorant earther*
"So, when did you last SEE the entire freaking earth LOOK like a globe??"
Och, so Australia is not real because you never seen it with your own eyes? Right? Do penguins exist? Have you seen them? Em I real? You never seen me, so by your logic i could not be real. Right?...
You dont need to see actual earth from 4000km away to know that its globe...
"you mean you saw the GLOBE at the store with the map on it, OH... I SEE!"
Sadly, you dont see... Your ignorance is not proof of anything,
"Good luck with that DUMB argument"
It is dumb, but i dint made it, you did. So what does it say about you?
"People like you are dead-ended, suffer from cognitive dissonance"
? Do you even know what cognitive dissonance is?... Because its clear that you dont if you think that its correct way to use it here...
"and very mocking of others"
Ridiculous ideas can be ridiculed. Right?
"Let me guess---> Liberals!"
Let me guess---> Muricans!
Yes, A is missing, as you don't deserve it because of your ignorance level.
"return with an intelligent explanation to why you believe it's round"
We have brains and basic understanding of geometry. Do you have that?
"You hate being put on the defensive, eh!"
Not really, i can put anyone into place while being in defensive or offensive, doesn't make big difference here. You would only hate that if you could not defend your position, which says allot about you.
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@reportercrusher2411
"Not trees on earth so I mean if I have the real photocopy-roll"
Yet you want to make an argument that photos are fake, which should not matter what is shown in them in general. Tree or an alien. If you want to say that photos from space are fake then you should have a method to determine this. Do you have one?
"Stalin was photoshopping in 1942. "
Did you photoshoped videos too? Did he photoshoped in an earth from space?...
"there are more things possible because they or people or governments hide patents of very unknown techniques"
And? First of all, you have no idea if there is such thing. Second, even if there was one, there is no need to photoshop photos from space when you can simply launch a rocket over there... Third... First photos appeared during cold war with rusia, which means that if some one would have photoshoped anything and faked shit it would have been publicized all over the world... Your argument is as sound as pineapples on pizza... Just doesnt make any sense...
"When its digital , I do not have the equipment at home to run a decent program over it or in sink with it. "
Then you have no rational justification to say that those are fake if you cant even confirm that those are fake... Your personal opinion is not evidence for anything, its not even evidence for yourself...
"But Stalin ( or his IT specialist )is already a photoshopping in WOII. "
? Do you seriously think that they used computer to remove people from photos?
"Ánd I have bin fighting 31 years to prove and convince people of massive corruption by the fifa en the KNVB"
Good for you, when you can do that you will prove that there is corruption in those places but it will not disprove photos from space... Why do you even mentioning this? Its irrelevant to the topic...
"And if I’m wrong a have no problem admitting that. "
What would convince you that you are wrong about phots from space? like seriously, what?
"If you whant proof of the photoshopping being much earlier then you claimed to know. Leave your email ...."
Painting over photos is not a photoshop. Even if you have photoshop 500 years before first photo of earth from space was taken, that will not prove that photos have been photoshoped... Lets say for sake of argument that government is 500 years technologically ahead of general public, they are not, but lets pretend that its true, how would that disprove photos taken from space? Or even, how would that disprove globe earth?
Earth is round not because some one said so, but because it provable fact from reality. Anyone can do this, anyone can determine shape of earth without even using a single equation. Photos from space are just cherry on a cake, you can remove cherry and you will still have that same cake... And i don't even like cherries...
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Dirkardo StEvergreen
"But besides that, my main point is that you can't prove that God doesn't exist any more than you can prove that he can"
Once again, this is false statement. If god is actually real then you have actual chance to prove that he is real. While if god is not real then you have no chance to prove that he is not real, because he could be real and be expert on hiding. God claim is unfalsiable, which means that you cant prove it to be false, but you can prove it to be true. Keep in mind that i'm not saying that he is real, its just basic logic 101.
" I don't think a society where we tell people what they can and can't believe is a very healthy one"
Its double edge sword. In on hand, yea, we should never limit what you can or cant believe. But... There is the main issue with things like beliefs in sky wizards. Your beliefs will effect your actions which will effect everyone else around you which in most cases will lead to more harm then good. Belief in imaginary things which doesn't fit reality is not a healthy thing while at same time you should have right to have those fantasy beliefs... There is no win/win situation here.
"churches actually do a lot of good that isn't necessarily broadcasted"
And yet you can achieve that and even more without any need to have 30 minute pray before they give out food for hungry...
Do churches actually do some good? Yes. Should we have them just because of that? No. We can achieve same things and churches becomes useless.
"they do a lot of good things both locally and abroad, particularly with youth"
Don't want to throw a stone into your garden... But... Churches prioritize youth because its simpler to brainwash them with all of that whoho. So this sounded like a terrible thing to me... Please leave youth alone...
"They don't advertise that but there is a lot of good that they and many churches do behind the scenes that most people aren't aware of."
Cool, now find secular groups which help out people, they dont advertise themselves ether, yet they dont ask from people anything, while on another hand churches agenda is to get as many followers as possible while doing all those good things.
But this all is quite besides the point: Do we even need religions? Short answer: No. Long answer: No.
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@glenrisk5234
"Claiming that you do understand is obviously dishonest."
Interestingly enough you dint bothered to present actual definition of god you believe in... Yet you complain that people don't understand what you mean by your buzz words... C'mon... Lets be real here... You just want to find excuse here to avoid presenting your argument as you know you cant defend it with actual evidence.
"A common misconception but then there is an awful lot of that in the English language?"
Word "set" has over 300 meanings, so if you still continuing with your complain that some one doesn't understand you personal interpretation of some particular word while you never bothered to present actual definition of it... What does it tell about you?
I'm using most common definition from most common religion, if i got it wrong, cool, correct me and present your definition, otherwise you just complaining here. And what is more interesting that i had similar conversation with some one who complained that i presupposed their position while after couple back and fourths was clear that i did not, he simply wanted to complain about my presupposition what his position is even if it was correct one... This maybe is not the case with you, but as you want to avoid to present your god definition, well, will have to go with most common.
"The problem people such as yourself face is that willfully ignoring reality so that it has to be proven to you will sooner or later result in being so far at odds with reality that your survival is no longer tenable?"
Whats your point here exactly? It sounded like a word salad to me, can you put it into simpler words? I'm not ignoring reality, i'm atheist, this is most real you can be at this point. So what the hell are you talking about?
"Good luck but I have had my fill of dishonesty"
What about ignorance and/or dishonesty? Your original comment implies that universe started with a bang, while big bang is an expansion. So ether you know that its expansion and you have been dishonest by saying that its a bang or you are ignorant on this topic. Which one was it?
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And once again... Provide a flipping evidence of your claim... Why its like this always? Some flat earther screams that something is true, that he made experiments, that he even have pictures or videos of it, but when asked to present it, they simply ramble for next 50 comments without actually proving a jack shit...
But let me be a prophet here: You had a ship or something, it went far away for you no longer being able to see (naked eye) then you took your magical p9100 camera, zoomed in and you got your boat "back"... This is NOT bringing boat back when it went over the horizon... This is simply zooming into an object which was too small for you too see with naked eye...
http://stupidconspiracies.org/misc/toronto.gif
There you go, simple picture, simple proof of curvature, you can zoom as much as you want, will NEVER bring back missing part, because its obstructed by actual earth curvature...
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@kumarslvr1
"ISS is such a lame excuse that everyone use,"
It wasn't an excuse, it was to clarify how much you accept and how much you reject. Same institutions which made claim that you have Van Allen radiation belt or ISS with people on it says that went to moon, yet you accept one thing while rejecting other. So i'm wondering how did you picked one over another.
"I just simply don’t believe we had the technology during that time to survive out of the van Allen radiation protection belt"
Why not? What is the radiation levels beyond this point? Is it dangerous for a mission which takes a week? Even if it was possible death sentence or extreme chance for astronauts to get cancer due to radiation, how would that even disprove that we never went to the moon? And whose data are you using here? NASA? Those same guys who flew people to moon?
"no other countries have been able to place a man on moon other than America despite technological advancement by countries like Russia, China etc ."
Because one trip costs over 1 billion bucks... Yes, with a B... Its expensive vacation to go and see a dry empty rock... Its not that they cant, they simply don't want to waste money on something pointless as this when Americans already paid for it 12 times... Its allot cheaper to send probes, you can get more or less same results with fraction of the cost.
"I think it’s a hoax that was spread intentionally to claim technological superiority over other countries. It’s all a lie according to my opinion"
ok, but that just your personal opinion based on your personal ignorance, at best.
And maned mission to moon was due to race against Russia. Do you seriously think Russians would have been quite if Americans pretended to be the first who landed on the moon?... Or are you think that every country in the world who has space capability is in this conspiracy? How does that work? Its not enough to have photos of rovers left by those mission on moon? Light refractors left there does cut it ether? What would be enough as evidence for you that we actually been there?
"also not believing in moon landing is not same as not believing in atoms"
Why not? have you seen them? Who said that atoms are real? scientists? Same people who said that we went to the moon? Like seriously, how do you pick conspiracies? Where is your personal line when you say "Nah this is real" and "yea, this is conspiracy i believe in"?
You dismissing moon landing while using data from same people who sent people to the moon, while accepting that there are such things as atoms from same people who sent people to moon, but at same time, not believing in atoms would be ridiculous, but rejecting moon landing is fine... How does your logic work exactly here?
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@kumarslvr1
"You are just so arrogant to force me your opinion or what you think as facts."
I'm not forcing my opinion on you, i'm trying to figure out how you decided to cherry pick one thing over another.
"You don’t have much knowledge in the field you defending so much about. "
But it seams that i have more than you do, its not being arrogant, its static a fact.
"You literally compared ISS and moon landing that if I believe in one I should believe in the other"
No, what i actually tried to ask here is if we can put people into earths orbit, house them for infinite amount of times in actual space, what prevents us from sending people to the moon? Will use basic analogy here, you have a bicycle, you can use it to ride to local shop 2km away, that fine by you, but you are saying that its not possible to use same bicycle to ride 20km. So I want to know why this is not possible, what prevents this from happening? You dint presented any actual rational explanation, you basically said "I simply don't believe that" ok, but why?
"They are so completely different apart from the fact they both involve rockets and few other things, that’s all. "
Not that different. You still need a way to launch people into space, you still need a way to safely house them in space for longer periods of time, provide food, water, air and so on. At same time, ISS gets regular resupplies, but those are not weekly ones, while moon trip took around 1 week, which simplifies quite few things here. Its basically comparison between building a house and simply backing your backpack for a short trip into mountains.
"You really are just as ignorant as you assume people who don’t accept your “facts” are"
Ignorant? Of what? What i'm ignorant of? Just because you want to reject reality doesn't make you correct by default. Provide me ONE example i'm ignorant about, do it, prove that you are correct and that i'm ignorant here.
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@TOM-ei9nb
"You would have to ask that of flat earth believers then"
But it was you who made claim that flat earthers have upper hand in some weird situation, so what it is?
"And I clarify that observation of sail or rod technique is a poor technique, because it leads to TWO conflicting result outcomes, period"
But its not... Give me second result which could be a cause of objects disappearing bottoms up.
"As I said I don't care what shape it is"
Which is an issue by itself. That would mean that you dont care what is actually true, I do, many people do care, and less false beliefs you will have less stupid actions you will take. After all, you beliefs will effect your actions in one of another way.
"I'm after a clear scientific result, no matter the outcome, while perhaps you wish to say the earth is a globe"
Yearth is a globe based on actual scientific results... I have no idea what you are even trying to imply here. I know that earth is a globe because of scientific methods, not because i have this feeling in my balls or something.
"But 100 years ago I can see how people would be able argue othetwise"
First globe model was made 3 century BCE in Greece... Like I said, there are multiple ways to prove earths shape which doesn't require you to go into space. Size of earth was determined by using sticks or/and by using water wells. You seam to know little to none surrounding this topic in general, yet you want to make comments about it... Why?
"By the way earth is not a perfect globe, you know this, it is an ellipsodal globe"
Well its oblate spheroid while slightly wider on "bottom" part. I know... Its clear that i know more than you about this topic. I'm not using actual complicated description of earth due to share fact that its irrelevant for basic conversations, its enough to agree that earth is a globe and not flat pancake, what exact shape it is would be quite irrelevant and waste of time if we cant even agree on basic shape.
"So I could argue that nearly 100% of globe earths sold in shops are at least a false representation of reality"
And i could argue that you are 100% wrong here. That difference in size would be more or less impossible to replicate on globe replicate sold in shops and it would be stupid to even attempt to do it as it would not change anything. On grand scale earth is a perfect sphere, if you want to go into details then yes, you have variation, but that variation is meaningless on globes sold in shops...
So yea... Globes sold in shops are NOT false representation of reality, it only could be false if it was shaped as cube or any other shape except sphere.
And just to educate you on reality, difference between "height" and width is 0.3% I dare you to find globes sold in shops which doesn't have any warping introduced in their castings which are perfect spheres... You are trying to nick pick some silly things here while exposing your own ignorance while doing that... For your own sake, stop it...
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@TOM-ei9nb
"What makes you pressume you'd qualify as somone who could educate me or others for that matter."
Because it clear that i know more than you about this topic? I mean, we already established this fact, we could continue arguing if i know more than you, but it would be quite a waste of time at this point.
"You are being aggressive and very arrogant, for what reason?"
Aggressive? Arrogant? When did that happen?
"Mirrage (things also disappear bottoms up) is a second reason."
And when you don't have mirage and you have objects disappearing bottom up, what's then? If you want to start including random phenomenon which could cause similar effect then i could say that in case you have object in between you and ship and you lover your altitude you will observe same effect... Well.. You will... But we are not talking about that, we are talking about clear examples when you don't have mirage, yet objects disappear bottoms up. This is what you would call correct scientific observation when you eliminate anything what could f**k up your results.
Tho, what was the first reason?
"Which is way closer than the 5.3km horizon line (i may be corrected on this)"
Depends... 5.3km would only be correct at specific altitude. So you kind of are and not really.
"Arrogance doesn't make one qualify to educate others for that matter"
Arrogance is irrelevant in your ability or qualification to education others... Ironically I need to educate you on this one...
"Would you care to point out exactly where I made a claim to earth being flat?"
Care to point out where i made a claim that you are flat earther? Felling silly?
"If you cannot, i urge you to apologize."
Yes, please, apologize for implying that i said something i never said. So where exactly did i said that you are flat earther?
"Otherwise I'd seem like you are putting words into my mouth and then arguing against them."
EXACTLY! You seam to have personal experience in this one, so maybe avoid doing it? Just a friendly suggestion.
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@clintonbeavers8311
"yes the bible says god flooded the world"
And? In Harry Potter books said that there is a magical place...
While in reality we know that global flood dint happen. This is one of the reasons we know that your book was not inspired by all knowing being but was written by common people, just like Harry Potter book. There is only one difference between them: One of them claimed to be factual.
"besides that the earth is flat"
Again, false. basic observation of sun proves that earth is a globe.
"if you need the scriptures to any of this I will be gladly to send them"
I dont need your fairy tales, i need actual evidence that your fairy tales are true... Quoting book will NEVER prove that its correct, especially when its demonstrably false.
"water dont bend"
Tides? Even on flat earth water bends... So you literally contradicting your own model or basic observable reality...
"sun needs oxygen to keep burning"
Sun is not burning, its glowing... have you ever seen old fashion incandescent light bulb? That one where its in a glass compartment, yet glows brighter than your future if you keep going on this path of ignorance...
"moon landing video shows the american flag waving why because there is air"
And now we talk about moon landing hoax... You cant even understand that earth is a globe, how the hell you could understand moon landing?
"I can prove all of this"
Cool, then prove it. Instead of wasting time with empty claims and some demonstrably false ones, prove them.
"can you disapprove it"
I did. Next.
" the cgi that nasa uses sucks"
What CGI? I will ask you same question i asked couple dozens of flat earthers like you, 100% of them failed to answer, so maybe you can: What method you are using to determine that photo/video is CGI?
"how man lies to you"
Like those who wrote bible? That type of man?
"nasa means in hebrew"
While in reality N.A.S.A means National Aeronautics and Space Administration
" you can thank me latter "
For your attempt to brainwash me? No thanks.
"do your own research"
Why? All of those are your claims, prove them or we can dismiss all of them as invalid without any need to provide counter evidence.
"whem you do you will see the truth"
Yea, i see it, moon if a globe, sun is a globe, earth is a globe.... Hmmmm...
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@Mr.Ramirez95
You completely missed my point here. What i was saying that just because you cant see, feel, hear, smell, taste something doesn't mean its not real. And just to clarify things here, i'm an atheist, but your approach is still broken. One simple example would be black holes, only recently we got an actual image of it, until this point no one ever see, feel, hear, smell, taste it, yet it was real. Do you get my point now?
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@Mr.Ramirez95
Einstein dint prove that black holes are real, he only showed that those are possible and should be real. Bu then again, go 50 years before Einstein and you don't even have that, yet black holes existed for quite some time now.
And not having evidence for something doesn't make it not real, it would only invalidate claim that it is real. Going back to the black hole claim, if some one made a claim 1000 years ago that black holes are real, claim itself would be dismissed as invalid due to none existence of evidence, yet black holes existed, but claim that they are real was never justified at that time.
All this comes back to your original claim: If I can't see it, feel it, hear it, smell it, taste it... It's not real.
Which i showed to be false. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
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@RobHappiness
First video... You have video trying to explain why upside down moon makes sense on flat earth... ok... What? You do know that globe has a valid explanation too? So why do you even post this video?
Second video, skip to around 0:59 time stamp. What do you see? rotating stars right? Is it missing something?... You do know that we have 2 points around which stars "rotate"? Right? So again, you have video which tries to explain why something we observe on reality makes any sense when trying to claim that earth is flat, while globe did that long long time ago.
Both videos fail to actually explain, but besides this point, at best you would have something what works on both models and none of those things could be used to prove/disprove anything...
"do you care if you're correct?"
I do, this is why i like fact checking. You seam to like just feel good and go with option which makes you feel best and not the one which can be supported by actual evidence.
" You came to argue under my comment"
And you made original one. I came here to respond to your "argument" aka "empty claim". If i wanted to argue for sake of argument, i would go and post comments under flat earth videos.
"and I'm proving you it's flat."
False. You are not proving anything here. Both videos you give here can be perfectly explained with globe model. So again, even if those videos dint failed to prove that observable reality matches flat earth, that would not prove that earth is flat... You need observable reality which would match flat model and missmatch globe one. If you have something what matches both models, then you proved nothing here.
Lets go with simple thing, simplest one i can give you. As by your flat earth model sun is always above earth circling it, how come we have sunsets? How come sun sets under horizon without changing its size while by basic geometry sun should never ever for ever touch horizon? Seriously, make an experiment in your house, get a round table, place light source above it, try to make it go below horizon... its basic geometry 101...
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@RobHappiness
If its so easy to prove, why you dont prove it right now? Its a basic geometry when it comes to sunsets, those should never happen if earth is flat, yet we have those. I can give you even more to think about. Sun moves (actually earth rotates, but well, you got the idea) in a straight line, while it should circle around if earth was flat. Sun should change perceived size if earth was flat, yet its always the same size. Sun should change perceived movement speed, yet its not.
There are 4 basic things about sun you will fail to explain on flat earth model, and this is even basic example which doesn't require any calculation, just basic knowledge of geometry, but you still think that earth is flat...
Wild guess (not really) here, your main drive to believe that earth is flat is because bible said so?
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@CarsSlavik-mt2rt
" it is called straw man argument that you are trying to pull here"
Feel free to actually explain where I made this strawman fallacy and not just assert it.
"Asking me of evidence of something that you yourself don't have"
You are correct, I don't have evidence of flat earth, this is why I asked you... Did I missed something here?
" number one most overwhelming evidence of our flat Earth reality is that there is absolutely nothing that shows us that we live on a spinning globe"
That's a logical fallacy 101. And like I said, don't tell me about a globe, present evidence for flat earth. Earth could be a cube if its not a sphere, you can't just say that because you fail to see evidence for a globe it must be flat pancake... That's not how logic works.
"Curve ? Nope , only in cartoons"
You can observe a curve on a beach. Heck even sunset/sunrise proves curve.
"Measurable speed?"
No idea how that's related to the shape of earth. Maybe earth is a sphere and its stationary? Have you ever considered that? No? Just silly flat earth troll points?
"in fact every single person try to measure the speed came to the exact opposite conclusion"
That earth is rotating? Yea, I know.
"Nope only a theory based upon a theory"
Cavendish experiment proves gravity, anyone can perform that one too. You don't really anything special, just some spare time.
"Electrostatic charge of the ground along with density and buoyancy will do just fine"
In which reality? And why is there gradient of pressure? Why does objects fall down? Why does objects which are not electrostatically effected behave in same way as any other object? You throwing around random words doesn't prove your flat pancake world.
"All of which by the way on light gravity are measurable observable and verifiable"
Funny enough buoyancy is the result of gravity. So like, yea, you do play yourself here nicely.
"Vacuum of space? "
Yes, what about it?
"Scientifically impossible"
99.99% of scientists disagree, why?
"and also provable"
What's provable? Because I can bet that you don't even understand what vacuum is, let alone how it works and why earth with its atmosphere existing in it doesn't break any laws of physics and it is scientifically possible.
"How many times do you have to catch someone in lies before you call them liar?"
Depends, its really wage question. Like, if I said 1 lie in 100 years I lived, does that make me a liar? What if I said 1000000 of those? Like at which point does saying a lie makes you a liar and at which point saying a lie makes everything you say a lie?
Have you ever said a lie? Yes. So does that mean that you are lying here and no one should take you seriously because you are liar?
Every single thing you said there wasn't proof of flat pancake world, you just desperately tried to misrepresent globe model. Do you have any actually interesting argument, proof, evidence or something for me here or was this the best you can do? Because its getting really boring...
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@billwilliamson1506
"You are so angry with Christianity that you can not even agree with a basic fact that the Bible is not a history book, and nor is it 100% fable."
I agree that bible is not a history book, but when it comes to it being book of fables... Well, that is factually true. If you want to nick pick that something in it is not a fable, cool, doesn't mean that book itself is not a book of fables.
"something like the flood likely never happened"
Its not likely, we know that it dint happen.
"and if it did it was WAY overstated and fictionalized to be a fable. "
AKA Fable.
Definition of fable:
1. a short story, typically with animals as characters, conveying a moral.
2. a supernatural story incorporating elements of myth and legend.
3. myth and legend.
4. a false statement or belief.
Pick your poison.
"The Bible is better suited for moral claims because those do not require scientific proofs"
And yet bible is still useless when it comes to morals... Is killing wrong? Bible says that it is and that its not... Sooo, which one it is? By 10 commandments its wrong, by the verse where you should stone homosexuals its fine... So which one it is? And how would you know? Would you use bible to determine that or some completely unrelated source?
"Jesus Christ existed and was crucified"
Jesus like generic human being with this name or Jesus like a god?
"that is a fact,"
Not a fact, claim at best.
"(proving how two separate eyewitnesses claim the same thing in different sources, etc)? "
I can get you 1000 different sources claiming to be probed by aliens... Does that make it true?
The fact that you can have those 2 different source being same one just dressed as different is quite big possibility, bigger then having some god being crusified.
But i could give you for sake of argument that some guy named Jesus got crusified, so what? Having Peter Parker who lives in New York will not prove that spider man is real... So again, bible is useless.
"Of course, both must be combed through, but it is false to claim the Bible is just a book of fables."
Bible IS book of fables by definition of fable... Its BY DEFINITION book of fables. And again, for some historical person not being actually real will not change our world view, but if you want to claim that some god lived and died (well he dint died as you cant kill immortal god) will require more than a book said so. I can believe you on face value that you have pet dog, but if you will claim that you have invisible pet dragon, that will require more than your word.
So to summarize: Bible is book of fables by definition of fable. Bible is useless when it comes in determining that is or was real as any claim made by bible gets verified by actual external sources and then its been shown to be accurate or false. Bible is useless when it comes to moral values.
Conclusion: Bible is useless book of fables.
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@shavrael
That doesn't answer to my question, so will try again: What shape does earth have?
Will give couple valid examples: Sphere, torus, cylinder, cone, cube, cuboid, triangular pyramid, square pyramid
, triangular cylinder, triangular prism and so on...
So which one it is by you?
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@rg5445
"I don’t belong to any group a can assure you"
You belong to the group who doesn't care about others if they don't effect your life directly. Wasn't this what you said?
"doesn’t mean I don’t care about actual important issues"
So you simply ignore smaller issues? Small issue is not an issue for you?
"if you really are indeed worried that everyone needs to believe what you believe"
No, what i want is for people to know how to evaluate claims, to understand logical fallacies, to understand basic reality and to simply go with facts and not with personal feelings what is true or false. I care what is actually true, i want others to care about it too. I want to educate people about reality and not spread some silly unsupported claims.
"ridiculing them won’t change their minds. Would it change yours?..."
Maybe. If you present a claim and i can actually ridicule it and my ridicule is not invalid, shouldn't you stop and reconsider your claim? I can agree that ridicule is not the best approach, but doesn't make it invalid.
"because where I come from the only thing that would’ve got you is a busted lip. "
And? Does that make people who busted my lip correct just because they dint liked ridicule? Which brings yet another issue... Thin skin... Resulting in hand waving is not something you should do, if some one doesn't like what they hear, they can leave, but this is not the case for actual physical assault, so try not to compare those.
"if you’re on a mission to rid the world of ignorance good luck with that"
Thanks.
"What are you the thought police?"
What are you, ignorant one? I don't advocate for specific thoughts, i don't even advocate for speech being limited, what i advocate is that you cant go around and claim that earth is flat because you feel it in your balls. You could come along and propose claim that earth maybe could be flat while it would be shut down straight away as nonsensical claim as its a observable fact that its a globe. Again, ridiculous ideas can be ridiculed. If you don't want to be ridiculed, don't propose ridiculous ideas... Which is quite strange, as on one hand you say that people can make ridiculous ideas and propose them as possible reality while we cant actually ridicule those ideas... You cant have only one of those, if you have one you will have another, if you want to ban ridiculing then band ridiculous ideas, if you don't want to ban ridiculous ideas then you cant ban ridicule. Its simple.
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@PhillyDee215
"if that core was strong enough to keep over 70% of water 💧 pulled to this earth then we as people would be pancaked "
? Do you have bones or muscles? Yea, those things which allow you to not be a pancaked... And gravity is relatively weak force, its enough to keep things on its surface, but it is relatively weak force. So i have no idea what you tried to even say here... Do you even know what gravity is?
"So we're just walking freely within this same gravity that's holding this entire earth together"
Yes, welcome to reality.
"but that would mean this earth is made out of a sphere and all this water was poured in"
no... Again... gravity... Object in size like earth and with mass like earth will tend to collapse on itself creating most optimal shape for that: sphere. Where you have equal distances towards center of mass. Its basic physics here... I just assume that you are trying to troll here.
"So the astronauts have to penetrate thru a sphere not the atmosphere to get to the moon"
Are you drunk? What sphere?
"if we're within the same gravity that's holding down the mass amount of water then it would be impossible to even walk"
Says who? You? based on what? Your personal opinion?... Ok... We dont care. present actual math, actual calculations which would prove your point, otherwise its just an empty claim of yours based on your ignorance about... well... everything...
"Gravity is a made up explanation to explain what goes up and y it comes down"
Cavendish experiment proves that objects with mass attract objects with mass. So, lets use big brains here: earth, big mass attracts humans.
Gravity is a fact, i know you dont like reality, but well, you cant escape it in your fantasy world.
"its called weight"
How does weight calculated? Because i can bet you dint realized that but to calculate weight you need to include gravity into equation. Isint that ironic?
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@PhillyDee215
"water don't naturally bend nor curve unless its taking the shape of something"
Tides?... Like seriously... TIDES... You have literal water bending even if we lived on space pancake (assuming you believe in space) and you want to say that water doesn't bend?
" So since the earth is round u say..."
I'm not saying, its just a fact. Grass is green not because i said so, but because it is...
"So we're living within a ball shaped object in order for the water to take this shape your saying?"
What?
"Gravity alone does not cause water to shape into a ball....Common sense here."
We left common sense when we started to talk about earth being flat...
But like seriously, i will assume that you just trolling here. But well, troll or not its always nice to educate people. Like i mentioned before, gravity, attraction between objects with mass. So as water have mass if you would put water in a 0g environment it would form into a ball due to gravity, that's basic physics 101. In our case we dont have only water we have bunch of earth and other stuff which is heavier then water, soooooooo, hard thinking moment here, as we have gravity everything will tend to take most optimal shape, which is... sphere...
I know its hard for you to understand this as this requires thinking in 3 dimension and not on 2d like flat earth, so it might require some extra thinking, but well, reality just disagrees with you and your personal ignorant opinion will not change it.
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@jakestarr4718
"Lol the ISS is in lower Earth orbit, go read. All satellites as well."
First of all, you do know that orbit is only possible on a globe?...
Second, most satellites are on lower earth orbit, but not all of them.
"We've never left Earth buddy. EVER!!!"
Dint you just said that ISS is lower earth orbit? And are we talking about shape of earth or your claim that we never went above that? Because we need to establish shape of earth first of all, before we go something more complex than that...
"Read the NASA page with pictures, "Renditions". Not including project fish bowl. "
Yes, please, read, all of it, not only one sentence you cherry picked but entire thing... lets see who is incorrect here... And what is even more funny that you literally believing what NASA says on page X while dismissing everything on page Y from same NASA...
"No I couldn't determine how it looked from the outside without actually seeing it"
Why not? And especially when using same analogy and applying to our galaxy, walls of this house are transparent. You know how far away each room stretches, you can determine actual size and shape of the house without looking at it from outside, no need to be 100% accurate, but you can do that...
"You could make any geometrically shaped light bulb and from a far enough distance it will appear round. "
? have you ever heard about sun filter?... You know, that thing, that glass with some tint on it which removed glare and you can actually see real shape of light source, that one...
"Philosophy is a tool of understanding or realization"
And how is this related to the shape of earth?...
"Language gymnastics is next?"
Correct. Word "set" has over 300 meanings depending on context, so we can perform literal language gymnastics.
"Ok then Mrs Butterworth"
Well atleast its clear what is your mental age.
"Your name is irrelevant."
Correct, my name is irrelevant, something is true/false independent who said it, what matters is argument itself not who said it.
"I'm not going to claim something that isn't concrete or based in proper evidence"
Cool, so you cant claim that earth is flat, especially when its proven fact that its a spherical.
"I suppose the Earth's core is a molten chunk of iron and surrounded by water waiting to explode too!"
Who made this silly claim?
"I suppose the frequencies emitted by the Black Knight satellite is fantasy too"
Do you have evidence that its not?
"But no one actually knows. If someone does know and has proof it's hidden for some reason. "
Which is more likely: Natural object which follows natural laws of physics or magic?
"to try and manipulate my mind to think like yours"
Like a normal human being you mean?
"However you brought nothing but absurdity in thought"
Says some one who thinks that flat space pizza is possible because he failed to prove to himself that earth is a globe... C'mon, lets be real here...
"There ya go... Obama on lower Earth orbit. Big break throughs... Yeah like leaving lower Earth orbit."
? What this video should even prove exactly? That earth is globe? Because you can only have orbit on a globe. That we dont have appropriate technology to safely travel further than lower earth orbit? Well we are working on that one. Moon missions have been performed just to piss off Russians and maybe find something useful on the moon in regards of dangerous trip to it. There was nothing, so after couple missions it was shutdown as each trip costed like a billion dollars, quite expensive trip to the place which has nothing to offer... Now as we have different companies investing their money, like spacex, which can lower costs of space travel multiple times, traveling to the moon became something reachable and in near future we will go back there to establish some basic base like we have with ISS. After that will be Mars with an actual self sustaining base.
So your provided video only proves my point here... So thanks.
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@jakestarr4718
"Orbit is only possible on a sphere... Looks at sun and moon..."
Moon orbits earth, sun is a center of our solar system, while sun doesn't orbit another planet, it does orbit center of the galaxy which by current understanding is a black hole. Did i need to be extremely specific when i make some general claims?
"Everything else works elliptical. Not on Earth! It's special!
"
What? What works elliptical? What the hell are you talking about here? Could you be any more specific?...
"I was designing a road yesterday for a sphere. But I used a plane model for it."
And? if we are talking about 3d design and you have sphere in size of earth and you have road in size of a regular one, then i cant see any issues in using plane of a road... What issue there should be?
"I tried to use a compass on a sphere, but it works on a plane model."
? Compass point to the poles, what issue do you find with that exactly? And why would compass point to south pole on flat earth model?
"I dunno man, there's like reoccurring incident."
Yes, your ignorance.
"Even when looking at shipping lanes to flight plans."
How do they look like? Take any plane flight path on southern hemisphere on a flat map, how do they look like? They have an arch, right? Why is that? If you would take same exact plane flight path and put on a globe, how would it look like? Nice and straight line... Who could knew, its like earth is actually sphere and not flat pancake...
But seriously, all 4 comments you made here are more or less you being but hurt and screaming at me while holding your fingers in ears... Did you had any point to present here or did i missed one?
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@ultraniusmaximus1536
"What is it with you people with the whole "...says every Flat Earther" line?"
What about it? Its just basic observation that flat earthers like to use phrase like this when they cant actually prove their point so they simply say that we should go and find information which should prove their point... Its not our job to prove you correct/wrong, its yours.
"our beliefs are the same, so obviously you'll hear similar truths"
What truths? Your statement that i should find information supporting your claim is some what a truth? Its your empty claim and i will not waste my time doing your job here, if you cant prove your point, then thats that, we can dismiss it entirely as invalid without any need to provide counter evidence.
"And even asking the question how NASA is even relevant here shows how much you've missed the mark"
But NASA is not relevant here... There are dozens of space agencies across the world while those are irrelevant here too... We know that earth is a globe not because NASA said so, but because its provable fact from reality anyone could confirm from their backyard with 1 dollar solar filter...
"Lastly, I won't ask for your backyard proofs, because they don't exist"
So if you dont even know what are those, how do you know that those dont exist? Scared of reality? My proofs are really simple, doesn't require any math, no expensive equipment, just spare time and 1 dollar solar filter. If you cant even pass this basic observation anyone can do, then anything else than this will fly over your head. So lets from basics and lets see at which point we disagree.
Learn to walk before you try to run.
"and you couldn't prove anything even if you wanted"
Yet I can.
"which you obviously don't because you don't seem to understand what truth is."
Do you? Because until this point you only presented your ignorant opinion, nothing more. So what do you call "truth" and where can i find it in your comments exactly?
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@ultraniusmaximus1536
"You calling anyone's opinion ignorant is, in itself, ignorant."
If your opinion is based on your ignorance, its it ignorant. What objection can you even have against this?
"I've been stating truth from the start"
If its a truth then you should be able to prove it to be true and not only make a claim that it is. What you did so far was only a claim that something is true, you dint proved that it is true.
"You seem to want to fight instead of learn"
False, i want to know what is actually true independent of how i will feel after getting this information, if you could prove that earth is flat then i will accept it in no time, but as you failed to do so i will go with things i know to be true which in general matches globe model without any issues.
"I have better things to do than to deal with cognitive dissonance."
What? Where did I engaged in cognitive dissonance? Do you often make shit up just to create excuse to run away when you got your ass put on fire?
Basic reality is quite basic, you made a claim that earth is flat, you failed to present ANY evidence that it is, so claims without any evidence can be dismissed without any. While i can sit here and list dozens of separate methods proving that earth is a globe. Its not a cognitive dissonance, its basic education.
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@derekgreene7436
"How did they get the buggy they were driving on the moon."
Got from local home depo on moon, duh...
"Not one piece of footage of earth turning mate!!"
? Earth makes 1 rotation every 24 hours. You want to observe that rotation in a live video?... Will repeat: 24 hours results into 1 rotation
"Look, we cant trust NASA in my opinion"
Who cares? In both cases, who cares what NASA says and who cares what is your personal opinion? Earth is still a globe independent of you or NASA. Moon landing still happened independent of NASA or your personal opinion.
"But the video is making people out to be idiots"
No, people make themselves look like an idiots, video just shows them behave like one.
"and been ridiculed for having an opinion"
Making active claim that earth is flat is not just an opinion
"Einstein admitted all his theories are not fact"
And?
"theres people who teach in colleges who believe the earth could in fact be flat"
Then they should loose their jobs for doing that, actively promoting fantasy as reality should not be allowed in educational institutions.
"With all the facts we have I think its flat"
What facts? Basic observation of sun have 4 facts which match globe model 100% and missmatch flat one on same 100%. So what facts do you have to prove that earth is flat? And to me extremely clear here as i have seen this countless times by now, disproving globe will not prove flat one, if you want to prove that earth is flat, prove that earth is flat, avoid making claims that earth is not a globe, that will not prove that it is flat. And especially avoid bringing terribly irrelevant things like NASA, goverment or moon landing...
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@pepperdeez
". The fool is you for thinking it's a fact and saying it's a fact because it's "the best" explanation we have..."
You need to learn how to read here. What i said is that Big Bang is currently best explanation based on a currently known facts, like the fact that universe is expanding or Cosmic Microwave Background radiation or few other things. Those are facts, Big Bang is an explanation based on those facts, it could still be shown to be incorrect at some point, but currently its a best explanation we have.
So again, learn to read instead of making your own shit.
"It is on you to jot believe in God and to believe there was a big bang"
Yet one is just a claim and the other is based on evidence and facts... Which is more reasonable? And on top of that, having big bang doesn't disprove god, so you can have both or none of those...
"Maybe really look into it and understand the entire theory and look through all the "evidence".
"
I did, did you? And at worst you would point out issues with Big Bang, maybe even disprove it entirely, but you know what you will not achieve? You will not prove that god is real... Disproving X will not prove Y by default...
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@josephscott6642
"Revelation 7:1
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. (KJV) "
"Job 38:13
13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV) "
""He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 104:5)""
""He shakes the earth from its place and makes its pillars tremble. (From the NIV Bible, Job 9:6)""
""Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me, if you understand. (From the NIV Bible, Job 38:4)""
""that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it? (From the NIV Bible, Job 38:13)""
""He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in. (From the NIV Bible, Isaiah 40:22)""
Issue with that book of fables is that you can have any interpretation you want from same exact sentence. Like for example you would say that "circle" means that it said that earth is round, while definition of circle indicates flat disk. I have seen flat earther and not using same exact verse to "prove" their point...
And no, bible doesn't contain any useful scientific data which could not be known at that time. I dare you to present any verse which provided actual information about reality which cant have more than one interpretation. Lets see with what you will came up here.
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@robertpunu7624
"the working model is the polar azimuthal equidistant map"
Yet we asked for working model... So lets check yours, Australia, width shown on that map doesn't match reality. Why is that? And as it doesn't match reality, its not a working model. And FYI map is not a model of earth, its a map... Which is not even accurate... So try again.
"this map is in the White House Situation Room"
Maybe because having a globe would make only one side visible and it would take quite allot of space?...
"and in the ancient world..."
Yes, ancient... That time when people known shit about world...
"how can observing the sun disprove the flat earth?"
Sunset. Only possible on earth with curvature. None changing perceived sun size. None changing perceived sun movement speed. Perceived sun movement in a straight line across sky. All four matches Blone model 100% and fails 100% on flat one. Why is that?
"I don't believe the earth is flat because the internet said so"
Yet you best "evidence" was flat globe representation in WH... Yea, riiight...
"but because of the overwhelming evidence brought about by scientific research"
Like what? Flat earthers like to mention science or scientific research, but every single time they present that its not even close to be scientific...
" which are not publish by the ''scientific community"
Maybe because they are bollocks? have you ever considered that?
"scriptures in the Bible and the Quran"
Och... Right.... Completely forgot, earth is flat because book said so... Sorrrryyyyy.... Not internet, it was a book...
"so use your critical thinking and don't be easily led astray, like sheep."
Correct, so why do you behave like a sheep and follow blindly what some ancient book says without ever actually thinking about it? Explain to all of us why sun doesnt change perceived size throw day while it should in your world view. Why it moves in straight line? How is sunset possible over flat surface? None of that makes any sense o flat earth, none. Yet you are here saying that you have scientific research... No, you dont, you dont even know what science is if you trying to claim that ....
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@robertpunu7624
"Australia in the map matches reality or as close as possible, but in what way doesn't it match reality? "
Width. By flat earth map Australia should be allot wider than it is in reality. Quite simple.
"it shows it better than a globe would"
False again. BY globe model Australia size matches perfectly to actual size.
"compare the actual airline plane's flight paths on a globe to that of the flat earth map"
Actual flight paths? So you want to say that when you change flight path to something you want it to be then its matches something you claimed to be true?... Isint that convenient?... And no, flight paths makes no sense if earth was flat. But it does make sense if its a globe and flight paths got projected on a flat surface. This is why you have those arcs in flight paths while plane flies from point A to point B in a straight line.
"they could show the globe in 3D graphics on a flat screen, regardless of the size"
Yes... But why should they? That map is not made to used for war purposes or something, its just for decoration... If they need to plan something which requires actual globe, then they will use a PC for that...
"Since the 600s AD, scholars have supported that view, and by the Early Middle Ages (700–1500 AD), virtually all scholars maintained the spherical viewpoint."
I think it was 3 century BCE and not 5th... But well, doesn't really make any difference here. People thought that earth is flat because it looked like one until some one which geometry knowledge realized that it cant be flat due to multiple things. Proved that and it became settled thing. This is how science works. While flat earth was not based on science, but just on personal feelings and opinions.
"According to Stephen Jay Gould"
According to me, i dont give a flying f**k what some one said... If you want to make argument from authority as evidence that earth is flat, we are done here. You clearly have no idea what counts as evidence and why using logical fallacies wastes allot of time...
"the sun goes into the horizon and disappear from your sight just like when you see a railroad track, as it goes further away from you"
False again... Can you get one thing correctly here?... Railroads don't disappear, they getting to small for you to see them. They will only disappear if they go over horizon. Sun on another hand doesn't change size, which is in contradiction to your rail road analogy, and disappears over horizon bottoms up, which matches globe model 100%. So ether you have no idea what perspective is or you never observed sunset or both... Stop acting so ignorant, read a book about perspective or something...
"it's how your vision works, it's because of perspective. "
False again... Objects become too small for YOU to see them, but you could still bring some of them back with a zoom. But... ALL objects on earths surface have set hard limit how far you can see them before they start disappearing bottoms up. This is proof of curvature 101. Your failure to understand geometry is astounding... Sun doesn't disappear due to perspective, its been hidden behind curvature... Which is observable fact.
Article like this explains why you are fundamentally wrong on all possible levels
https://flatearth.ws/sun-apparent-size
" yes, its in the internet, so what?"
So what? You blindly believe what internet says instead of doing some basic experiments by yourself to get to correct conclusion... Something is true/false not only because internet said so... And blindly believing that earth is flat because internet said it will not get you far in life.
"the visual evidence for it is still better than any ''peer reviewed paper'' from incorrect modern day scientist. "
First of all, you have no visual evidence for flat earth, but we do have visual evidence for globe one. Like that link with sun size. Second, peer reviewed papers are exponentially more trust worthy source than random article on random web page which says that earth is flat because it looks like one... Do you even know how peer review works?...
"and what makes the evidence presented by flat earthers not scientific? "
Because they are not scientific?... Because they are not using scientific methods? Because they are not based on science?... Because they are demonstrably false?...
"because you can't accept anything that would shatter everything you've been taught since kindergarten. "
Talking from personal experience? As you literally cant accept something what would shatter your world view even tho i'm showing facts into your face.
"not accepted maybe because modern scientist refuse to let go of their religion of the heliocentric model that's found in the Jewish Kabbalah."
or maybe because its actually true?... its like you expecting something different in case it was actually true... How would scientists behave if heliocentric model was actually true by you? Like how would that be different?
"why the quick capitulation?"
Maybe because its demonstrable reality? Anyone with any capability to understand geometry realizes that you cant argue against globe earth model... Which actually exposes some issues with you...
" the scriptures in the bible and the Quran just proves that the religious view has proof of the flat earth"
False again... What some ancient books says are irrelevant. We know that earth is globe not because some book said so, but because its verifiable fact from reality.
"observable and repeatable= Known and, Known= ''science''. all else invites deception. "
Well correct... Strangelly... Tho on that note, earth is observable to be a globe, repeatable experiments and observations. So we know that earth is a globe, you dont know that, so by your own words, you are not using science and you invited deception into your world.
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@robertpunu7624
"I go where the evidence leads me"
Issue is with your "evidence".
"and exactly how do you know what the real shape of Australia is? from a globe?"
? Go and measure it... Width... Compare to globe and flat earth map, what you got in reality and what you should get by those maps.... One of them are bonkers, make a wild guess which one... Its direct scientific experiment anyone can go and compare results with both model claims. Easy. But it always results into 1:0 for the globe.
"from CGI images from a satellite?"
Cant remember if i asked you this already, but lets try. As dozens of other flat earthers failure to answer to this simple question, will ask you: What method you are using to determine that photo X is CGI and photo Y is not?
Be the first one from dozens who i asked and none of them managed to answer! Do it!
"but you've already judge my video as nonsensical without seeing i"
Should we watch a video which is 3 hour long proving that magical space pixies farting out universes after eating hot tacos are real?... Especially when i know that earth is not flat due to basic observation of sun. Unless your video provides evidence that reality is not real, then you might have a valid point here, otherwise your video is bollocks. You literally would need for magic to be real for flat earth to be real at this point... So why should i waste 90 minutes of my life on claims i cant bet i already heard dozens of times?
"which means you don't want your worldview challenged"
I want to know what is true, challenging it with nonsensical claims is waste of time. You can challenge about belief of god, atleast that one cant be proven to be false and never was proven to be true. So we could talk about that. But when it comes to the shape of earth, there is no real debate here, we are here to educate ignorant people like you about reality.
"I don't want to provide timestamps because there are a lot of convincing proofs on the video that I want people to see"
So you dont care to defend your point?... So if i will provide links to 5 000 scientific papers which contain 500 pages each and will say that you need to read them all and it will prove that earth is globe, would you? Will you want to be challenged on your world view like you want me to be? Will you spend months o reading pages after pages after pages?
"and I still don't get what these ''observations from reality'' that would prove the earth is a spinning ball is, that spins faster than a bullet flies, I might add."
Learn to walk before you try to run. First thing you need to learn is how to determine shape of earth. After we establish that earth is a globe, we will talk about earths spin and all that jazz.
So, first step for you: learn what perspective is and why it DOESN'T explain sunset.
After you understand this point we will move slightly further, after like 50 steps we will talk about earth spin.
So yea, learn to walk before you try to run.
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@pavlo_herasymchuk
You seam to be new here, so will drop few verses for you to think about.
"Revelation 7:1
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. (KJV) "
"Job 38:13
13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV) "
""He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 104:5)""
""He shakes the earth from its place and makes its pillars tremble. (From the NIV Bible, Job 9:6)""
""Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me, if you understand. (From the NIV Bible, Job 38:4)""
""that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it? (From the NIV Bible, Job 38:13)""
""He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in. (From the NIV Bible, Isaiah 40:22)""
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@Otome_chan311
"If an organization lies, then it is not a reputable organization."
Organization is made of multiple people while at same time those people change over time and at same time, organizations usually make quite a few statements from which you can have some incorrect. After all this you will need to determine if people who made that claim knew that it was incorrect or not.
"Academia lies time and time again. Media lies over and over. Governments lie constantly."
And all of those are made from people. So people lie over and over again. So are you a liar?
"So why wouldn't they lie about something like the shape of the earth?"
Why would they? Especially when shape of the earth is a factual spherical one?
"But the fact that we even had to pause and wonder"
You can and you should pause and wonder on every claim. Issue is not with that, issue is with you deciding that everything what government says is a lie, that's the issue. Everyone lies, one less one more. But to simply scream that government always lie is just silly.
"just look at all these people who genuinely believe that "gender identity" is a thing"
Och for f**k sake... Why do you keep bringing that one up?... Who cares... Its like you are trying to use one thing to prove that another unrelated is relevant to the topic...
"People assert a lot of things about history simply because they were told it by an authority figure"
History is hard to fact check, so somethings NEED to be taken on its word, if its some sort of authority, then well, its better to take word of authority then word of Bob from 3a apartment.
"But since authority figures have declared we should worry and pass restrictive laws and declared that viruses now work in a new way, they change it all up and everyone falls in line"
So i guess you have scientific papers showing otherwise then? I mean, i'm always for the facts, so present your facts and we can go with that. Can you? Because now you are trying to make a claim that entire world governments decided to screw up economies of their countries for no reason at all. Why? What would be the point in doing so? And how the hell every single government agreed with this move?
"I find more often than not, when someone declares that their belief is based in "science" what they really mean is that they blindly accepted what an authority figure told them"
So by your logic we should not believe anything what some one says and we should only believe what we can personally test? So, is Australia real? Yes? No? Have you ever been there? No? So you are trusting authority that it is real?...
There is a point where you need to go with experts instead of starting to fact check every single tiny detail. You will spend your entire life fact checking and you will get like 1% of everything we know now by doing so... That just pointless...
Create base line for your knowledge, have basic understanding of reality, how it works and so on, and then when you see claim like "Earth is pancake" you can quite quickly realize how little sense this claim makes based on huge amount of other things which would not allow this pancake thing to exist in actual reality. Just the fact that you stopped to consider that flat earth could be possible exposes issue with your lack of knowledge in how world works.
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@sammydark9
"What good has space travel and NASA..."
Still with red hearing fallacies?... You keep changing subject at moment some one shows you fundamentally wrong... Its like you desperately trying to find atleast one thing you can use and claim victory while ignoring 100 times you failed...
To answer your ignorant question, couple inventions by NASA: Camera phones, Scratch resistant lenses, CAT Scans, LED's, Land Mine Removal, Athletic shoes, foil blankets, water purification system, dust busters, ear thermometers, home insulation, the jaws of life (tool, used bi firefighters, usually) wireless headset, memory foam, freeze dried food, adjustable smoke detector, baby formula, artificial limbs, computer mouse, portable computer...
How many things from this list you are using in your daily life? Quite few, isint it? So yea, again, you have been shown to be fundamentally wrong, so go, change subject again, we will happily show you wrong again.
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@sammydark9
"Ships disappear unless you use a camera or a pair of binoculars, they come back"
Do you try to look ignorant or this your natural behavior?...
I'm not talking about ships becoming smaller then you could see, i'm talking about ships literally disappearing bottoms up over the horizon... You ether trying intentionally twist my point to some straw man or you seriously have no idea what you are talking here.
Go to google, enter "ships over horizon" and try to understand difference between ships become to small for you to see and ship actually disappearing bottoms up...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSMRhTPMSfk
Video for you, its short one and demonstrates you being fundamentally ignorant and wrong about reality.
"You said it, bored of getting my ass whooped"
Then stop making ignorant claims and you might not be whooped next time...
"Just keep believing spoon fed theories as facts, I'll keep living in my fantasy land"
You have no idea how ironic this one sounds from some one who thinks that we live on a pancake because some one said to him that we do... Your fantasy land contradicts reality and we demonstrated that over and over and over again, your willingness to keep this fantasy only proves that its you who got brainwashed as you dont care what is true, you simply want your fantasy to be real even after your failure to prove that it is real and especially after we showed that you are wrong.
So yea, you have right for your own opinion, you have no right for your own facts.
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@sammydark9
"I never said we live on a pancake"
Yet your every single argument and objection is copy/paste from any generic flat earther...
"I just don't know"
its called: Willing ignorance
" and I question people who think they know"
Cool, you questioned, you failed, multiple times, yet you still think that you are correct here in continuing questioning something about reality which is demonstrable... Its not being open minded, you questioning reality itself...
"You literally call me this and that when you know nothing about me"
We know that you are ignorant, you demonstrated that yourself multiple times. What else should we know about you?
"and I know you think about me in your spare time"
Actually i dont, i have multiple conversations in my notification section, everyone gets put into same bucket.
"which must be a lot mate judging by your replies."
? Judging by what exactly? That i'm curious if you are real or just a troll? because i'm curious about quite people i'm having conversation on same flatardian topic, you are just one of many and nothing really special about you.
So yea, you have your fantasy, we have reality and we can end on that note.
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@TheCarter84
"However, he then goes on to say that it's the result of light refraction, air density, and other factors tricking our minds into seeing something that's not real"
Mirage? Visual illusions? Ever heard about those?
And, there is ALWAYS specific range you can see, it only slightly changes based on atmospheric conditions, but its always in specific range of it, you will NEVER see something 400 miles away while looking from sea level altitude, like NEVER.
"I believe the Earth's curvature calculator should work if the earth is a globe, but it does not"
But it does. Like seriously, it does work, as long as you will properly include observers altitude, observed objects height and atmospheric conditions, it will produce results within margin of error, which is like 1%. Feel free to prove me wrong here by producing video which shows something you should not be able to see based on globe model, just again, a remainder, your calculations NEEDS to include observers altitude, as I have seen to many times people using that stupid 8 inches per squared mile equation telling that we see to far, where this equation is a parabola and doesn't include observers altitude, which is major thing for globe earth model if you want to calculate how far you should be able to see.
"Maybe I'm just untrusting of the whole system like he says, and I am just skeptical about everything I've been taught"
This. And you are not being skeptical, you being paranoid more likely. You can disprove flat earth by simply observing suns behavior from your backyard, no math required, single days observation would be enough to shatter flat pancake world idea. What about sun in particular? It "moves" (actually earth rotates, but its different topic) in straight line. Sun "moves" at constant speed. Sun remains at same exact size (use light filter to actually see its actual size and not its glare). Sunsets/sunrises. Simple 4 things about sun you can observe on your own which matches 100% to the globe and are 100% imposible on flat one. That's it, no lizard people controlled government conspiracy brainwashing doodly do thing needed, just basic observation with your own eyes.
"I'll know for sure when someone actually lands on the moon and sends me a picture that I can verify as legitimate."
We got that in 1969, yet you still don't believe it. So why do you think it would change when we land next time and send 8k 60fps live videos back? Especially when in 1969 things like CGI wasn't even a thing and today we can actually create photorealistic CGI images? Silly flat earthers claimed that videos and photos from the time when CGI term didn't even existed have been CGI, and you want to say that today would be somehow different?... C'mon... We both know that you will not believe that... You just want to be special here who has different opinion from everyone else, nothing more.
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@s.c.6157
"but I don't see people helping others in undeveloped countries"
First of all, they do. Second and main thing, there is huge difference between simply educating some one across entire world on internet which costs you basically nothing and actually going to a country to some remote village, learning their language and trying to convince them that they need to know why earth is a globe and why earth rotates around sun. One of those actions requires allot more time and money.
" but to survive,they die constantly hungry,sick.."
Yes, and educating people in those areas could help out with finding food or curing diseases.
"there are some much worse things in the world then lacking some classes of geometry..."
And? Should we ignore every single issue in the world and concentrate in one biggest one? Because in that case we will have quite few issues in not time... Like "Och my house have been flooded by bursted pipe, well who cares, children in africa starving, lets ignore this issue and concentrate on more important one"... Well you could do that, but you will be homeless in no time and its gonna be you who needs help with world view like that...
"first we need to work to end racism,hunger,illnesses,war,discrimination..."
Cool, do that. But ironically enough racism was resolved by educating people that everyone is the same because we all are humans. Hunger can be solved with better knowledge how to make more food. Illness can be cured with knowledge how to do that. War is... Well that one is driven by stupid ideas. Discrimination again, can be solved by educating people. Do you notice pattern here?
"and yet here we are,nothing has changed only evolve in sophisticated slavery..."
Slavery got banned (in most countries), because people got educated on it.
"still lies,wars,and controling the stupid masses..."
Yes, like a flat earth movement... How do you think wars start? From putting 2 groups of people with opposing world views... So if you want to avoid wars, again, educate people.
"I've seen too much bad thing in the world and so little good things..."
Then you need to educate yourself on some basic human psychology where you will only notice bad things while ignoring good ones because bad ones will leave bigger impact on your than good ones. You could witness 100 people sacrificing their lives for others, but if you have seen ONE instance where some one kills some one just because he can, you will think that we are doomed, while in reality this is not the case.
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Randal Fracasse
"Due to our perspective on the ground"
You mean flurspective? Because its definitely not a perspective.In reality, because of perspective objects moving away from you becomes visually smaller, which sun should do it if moves in a circle over circular earth. Right? basic perspective 101. Next, if you have a flat plane and you have object above it, it will NEVER go under its plane... Perspective doesnt hide object behind something... This is not how perspective works, or reality in general...
"the sun moves closer (rise) away (set)"
Yet its not. If sun was moving closer its size would change and its perceived speed would change, not even talking about the fact that it should move in circular motion not in a straight line... So you have 4 issues now: size, speed, movement path and sunset/sunrise. None of those works on flat earth model... All of those works on globe model. So yea, ether you have no understanding what perspective is and you simply repeating what some numbnuts said to you, or you simply trying to troll here. Duno which is worst...
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"This is why both THEORY are still today described as such and far from becoming a science fact"
Earth is a globe, thats a fact, not a theory. Flat earth is just a claim, false claim by itself as we can prove that earth is a globe. Try to avoid comparing something like that in future.
"Each day we expand our knowledge of the universe and with it, we get closer to the day where our science will fail to stay standing, forcing us to rewrite it from a to z"
You seam to not even know what science is if you made statement like this. Science gets more accurate results as time goes, we don't rewrite everything with something completely new, we refine current understanding.
"A smart person like you otherwise, won't be so ashamed of sharing his feeling towards a minority of people who think differently..."
You can think differently about best tasting ice creams, but at moment you start saying that 2+2=banana, we will have issue with that. As now you are trying to redefine reality which is not the same as to simply have different opinion about some trivial topic.
"considering that what you believe came from a mirrored story and the same is valid for anything we known today"
Earths shape can be proven by anyone at any time with some spare time and minimal amount of equipment. You don't need 5billion equipment to determine shape of earth... For flipping sake, first people determined approximate size of earth with sticks...
"No matter how crazy the ideas are, there is no wrong doing and instead we should listen, discuss and be always ready to agree to disagree without closing any door."
Are you seriously saying that we should waste time in discussing if 2+2=banana or not?...
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@RS-ij8id
"I have studied computer science and software eng"
Congrats?...
" The Globe model is and stays a theory and the reason why it is simple"
First globe appeared in 3 century BCE in Greece, people at that time quite accurately estimated earths size with sticks... Earth is a globe, factual, testable and observable globe. Its not a theory, its not a opinion or claim, its simply a fact. Your personal incredulity will not prove anything here.
"get the attention of someone who may financial them etc."
Why? To put into analogy, you are saying that we should fund research in determining if chopping some ones head would kill him... It will... We know that it will... No need to waste money, time and human resources into research like that...
" It is not a reason to simply dismissed those and simply refer to them as "stupid, ignorant, less intelligent, reason to feel sad for them or for the world" etc. etc."
Why not? Again, analogy, if some one makes a claim that chopping humans head will not kill him, what would you call hi? Smart? Educated? All knowing?... Or simply stupid?...
You said allot, while at same time nothing... Congrats with that too...
There is difference between being open minded, what you seam to try to say with all this ramble, and simply behaving stupid. Earths shape is not a question, you might have slipped through if you lived 500 years ago in some remote village without any education, but now... Anyone on internet has access to all human knowledge, so there is no rational justification to even say that earth is flat. You might question it, for like 5 minutes, but at some point you have to realize that its just not a questionable thing. And then it comes to people who actually claims that it is... Not that it could be, but that it actually is...
FYI definition for stupid: having or showing a great lack of intelligence or common sense.
Flat earthers who screams that earth is flat matches this definition, so by definition they are stupid. You might not like this word, but lets call it as it is.
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@RS-ij8id
"I agree to disagreed with you"
You cant agree to disagree on fact, you can agree to disagree on best tasting ice creams, but when it comes to the facts, you cant have personal facts...
" You may want to claim your "it is not a theory" theory"
Earths shape is not a theory... Its a fact... And even then, scientific theory is not some simple theory, its a best current explanation supported by all evidence we have and contradicted by none.
"in every science book you will find most of the modern science and more, always presented as a THEORY"
Again, your personal ignorance is evidence for nothing. Please learn what scientific theory is, because now you sound like a young earth creationist.
"All the biggest discovery came from those who questioned the "unquestionable""
Those are not comparable, not even close. Questioning origins of universe is not the same as to question shape of earth. There are no more debate about the shape, its a globe, provable and testable fact. If you start questioning facts from reality you basically claiming that reality is not real, which opens new can of worms for you to deal with...
"Questioning it is not wrong as long as it possible to identify "weaknesses" to allow and justify that."
Cool, identify weakness in a globe model... I will wait...
"It is always possible to find a multiple if not infinite possible description that produce the same results.."
Are we still talking about shape of earth or are you now just making some general unrelated statements here?
"so again, questioning a given knowledge is A) Sign of intelligence"
False. Just because you question something doesn't make you intelligent, it might simply indicate you having paranoia.
"B) Train the brain and learn how to reach the same conclusion "
Thats false too. You should not learn how o reach same conclusion, you should learn how to reach correct one. Even if conclusion changes every single time you do same thing, you still need to get correct conclusion and not dismiss it just because you dint got what you wanted...
You literally trying to say that we should try to find evidence for conclusion we already made instead of following where evidence leads... Being flat earther 101.
"C) Make the knowledge your own instead of confusing science with religion. "
Science isint religion, it never was and it will never be. And your personal knowledge is anecdotal evidence at best. What seams real to you might not be real at all... Like people claiming to be abducted by aliens... Is that a knowledge about reality or delusion? How would you know?
"you are having faith in someone else and the entire system built on it."
I have reasonable expectations from previous experiences when it comes to claims. At moment my personal understanding of reality mismatch the claim presented, i will investigate it further, but i cant research every single thing from every single topic in the world. Should we not believe that atoms are real just because we never created our own equipment to see them?
"No difference with any other religion. "
Its like you desperately trying to lower science to religions level just to have fighting chance here.. Will not work.
"This is very important, because gave us the chance to understand that our educational system is failing to provide everyone with a clear understanding of the teaching provided."
Well, this is only issue with some countries, after all, majority of flat earthers seam to be located in US which has terrible educational system.
"valid argument regarding the transparency of the information behind the current science"
Who the f**k cares? Its like you are trying to imply that just because some where at some time some one behind label of science presented some invalid information that because of this now everything in science can be questionable even tho something like a shape of earth can be verified by anyone with IQ above 80?
"mistakes currently still present in our science book"
Like what?
"while their model does not have a clear description and while offering interesting and valid (within the model)"
If you don't have valid model how can explanation fit within that model? Flat earthers can even present world map without distance distortions, not even talking about dozens of other issues. Flat earthers doesn't even have what to defend, this is why their main thing was to attack globe, because in their delusion they think that debunking globe would some how prove flat...
"answers to those void left by the globe model"
Making shit up just to fill up gap is not an answer, its literally making shit up. If globe model can't explain something (what exactly it cant?) then it means there isint enough evidence to get to one or another conclusion. So how the hell would flatardian model provide any better explanation? Is taking something out of your ass makes it more valid than simply saying "we dont know, lets investigate"?
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@RS-ij8id
You wrote allot, so will be skipping some random nonsense.
"like Einstein, with the intent of proving the globe model have produced unexpected results forcing them to find quickly possible reasons to justify those values so that the theory could stay standing"
Are you drunk? Earths shape was determined 3 century BCE in Greece, what the hell are you talking about here? When did Einstein tried to prove that earth is a globe?...
" Plus, do not forget that the globe model has been chosen for its simplicity"
Or maybe because earth is a globe?...
"That's why, as an example, the maps for navigation are all projections of the globe model on a flat version"
False... We have flat maps not because it produces better results, those actually produce allot worst ones, but we use them for convenience sake. After all having think sheets of paper is allot better than having huge globe. And when it comes to smaller areas, you can use flat maps without terrible issues, those will have some distortions in distances, but for smaller areas its fine.
" And how do you classified your beliefs any better than a creationist one?"
Rational.
"But the chances for it to be correct are the same (if not less) than being created by the Creator."
False... You cant even prove that creator could possible be real, while Big Bang theory is based on all current evidence and contradicted by none of those while uses natural laws without any magic involved. Your creation claim doesn't even fall into bucket of possible explanations, because you cant even prove that it is possible.
"I am not inn, but this does not stop me to be rational when comparing the two"
But you are not rational.. not even close... You literally saying that option which cant even be shown to be possible is more possible then something what was shown to be atleast possible... That's not rational...
"So...It will always be a theory, no matter how close to the answer you may get."
It might always be a theory, but its atleast a scientific theory and not a empty religious claim which has no supporting evidence.
"And yet it is not correct to claim even the globe model (part of the heliocentric theory) as testable fact since many experiments still now have produced unwanted results"
What unwanted results from which experiments? And how would that be relevant when earths shape can be determined from your backyard?
"The globe is not a perfect sphere but rather like a damaged ball"
False again... Can you get anything correct here? On grand scale globe is a perfect sphere, its rounder than bowling ball. That tiny difference between equator and poles are like 0.4%. Earths surface would be hardly noticeable if you would shirk it down and tried to touch it with your fingers. Do you even know how tiny all of those differences are?...
"it is often justifiable a wrong predicted result and so really not possible to prove or disprove the model description"
False again. Tests do produce predictable results, your inability to perform them correctly isnt proof of anything.
"There is not a valid globe model with globally accepted math"
Are you drunk? Now you talk like generic flat earther... Should I literally do this 2minute google search and give you globally accepted math?
"The Ones available in different sources including Wikipedia are incorrect and approximated"
First of all, how do you know that those are incorrect? Second, due to huge variation of variables, like light refraction which cant be 100% accounted for, you will get results with some margin of error, but that doesn't mean that calculations are incorrect.
And now you simply trying to do hair splitting here... Its like you are complaining that results is 123.25456 and not 123.25456789563... C'mon...
"Again, Globe means "Sphere", and the name of the model is by itself a weakness."
Playing word game? Earth is oblate spheroid, slightly wider on "bottom". But in general its a sphere. Its labeled as sphere for laymen, if you will start talk about earth with 100% accurate description of it, this might take few minutes... Do you even know how words work?
"Other weaknesses are several phenomenal events observable in time like the "two suns in the sky""
Never happened. On top of this, even if it happened, that would not disprove globe... How the hell you even got to conclusion that having magical second sun would disprove globe?
"the second moon"
Same irrelevant point as it was with suns.
"the ability of seen from one city, another city which is located more than should be allowed to using the globe mode"
And? This at worst would prove that earth is bigger and not that its flat...
"Being a globe, you will always be falling off the sphere... so I need gravity"
Yearth is a globe because there is such thing as gravity... And while gravity is provable fact, you have extra thing to put into evidence bucket for globe.
Damn... Your ignorance is just... Damn...
"And when considering gravity, we must also apply gravity in space.. but the math won't work. "
What? Which math doesn't work in space and why? How often to you take stuff our of your arse without fact checking?
" For example the ship disappearing behind the curve of the globe."
Yes, objects disappearing bottoms up while going over horizon indicates curvature, while having curvature to all sides you will have a globe. This another evidence into globe bucket.
"You don't feel like you are constantly moving together with the earth at high speed"
Why should you? You CAN'T feel motion, only changes in it.
"while getting a push and pull from gravitational force"
And what do you expect to observe here? That you would be flying all over the place while we do spin every 24 hours?...
"This does not mean I don't agree with it, but it is fair to say that it is the least to be considered logical, experienced and observable"
Your personal ignorance isint evidence for anything.
"The lack of transparency from Nasa regarding the data obtain from out of space is another weakness"
NASA is relevant here as much as caramel ice cream... You as some one who claims not to believe in flat earth you make silly flat earth claims left and right...
"In fact, 2021 and we have yet not given one single real picture of the earth."
So you are ether a flat earther, troll or just to stupid to have decent conversation.
As dozens of flat earthers i have asked, i will ask you same thing: Which method you used to determine that photo X is fake and photo Y is not?
Be the first one who manages to answer this and show that you are smarter than generic flat earther.
Skipping rest of that... So yea... You are no rational thinking skills, you have no critical thinking skills, you lack of basic knowledge about basic things, you are ignorant on multiple topics and you dint presented anything in value here... Should we continue this pointless conversation or are we done?
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@RS-ij8id
"And yes, I do understand "grand scale" bu it is still not so."
Is bowling ball a sphere? Your first though would be: yes. But its less a sphere than earth if you would shrink it to the size of bawling ball. So your failure to understand what "on grand scale" means will not change the fact that earth is a sphere.
If you want to go into hair splitting, then nothing in reality is a sphere, as there is no such thing which would have its entire surface perfectly at same distance from its center, you will still have atleast one atom slight close or further away which would make it not a perfect sphere or a sphere by definition of a sphere, but yet we would still call it that way.
"It is not a perfect sphere and even from space it won't look as such"
FALSE. Again... Listen... Closely... Difference between "width" and "height" is 0.4%, without specialized measurement tools you will NEVER notice that difference, NEVER.
""The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance but the illusion of knowledge" by Stephen Hawking"
Correct, and you are prime example of this. You seriously think that you could notice 0.4% difference... Your illusion of knowledge is just... sad...
""The important thing is to never stop questioning" by Albert Heinstein"
That would only apply to none factual things. Do you exist? Is your existence factual? Ask yourself if you exist. Och wait, as you can ask yourself if you exist, that means you do exist. So why would you question your existence?
Being open minded is fine and you should be, but questioning basic facts is just stupid.
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@RS-ij8id
"It is not a perfect sphere. Because of the force caused when Earth rotates, the North and South Poles are slightly flat. Earth's rotation, wobbly motion and other forces are making the planet change shape very slowly, but it is still round" by NASA"
Riiight, maybe not a perfect sphere, yet its still a sphere... your entire argument was that earth is not a spherical, but by your own quote its a sphere... And like I said, if you want to hair split here, then nothing is a perfect sphere anyways.
""It is not even a perfect oblate spheroid, because mass is distributed unevenly within the planet. The greater a concentration of mass is, the stronger its gravitational pull, "creating bumps around the globe," says geologist Joe Meert at the University of Florida in Gainesville." by scientificamerican"
And? How big are those bumps? 0.1%? 0.0001%? You keep quote mining here in attempt to find any quote with some key words while missing entire point of this quote...
"From space it is less but still very much observable"
Nope. Will make it simple for you. If you have 1080p monitor, enlarge earth to fit its height, difference between height and width will be HALF of the pixel. HALF. And this would be on a screen where you could actually observe pixilation and maybe notice some difference where earths edge ends, but in reality you will NEVER notice that without specialized equipment, NEVER.
"This is why NASA officially mentioned that the picture of the earth offered by them, are in fact made from collection of different pictures on a 3d perfect spherical model of the earth."
No idea what this should even mean or imply... Like i said, multiple times already, there is no big difference if you will use perfect 3d sphere on your computer to project earths surface or if you would use sphere which is 0.4% wider than taller for that same purpose. You will still get visually a perfect sphere.
" It is actually really interesting how you not just only decided to believe whatever you have been told, but also have no even a clue of what you actually been told."
Says some one who fails to understand that 0.4% difference cant be noticed by naked eye and claims that this should be visible on photos... C'mon...
"Anyway, I will respect your religion - alternative version of what actual science means.
First of all, not a religion, basic fact you failed to rebut here. Second, your silly attempt to lower my position to religion is just, silly, at best. Third, ask any scientist if earth is flat, 99.9% will say that its not. Would that mean that scientists are not using science? Your entire argument is one big pile of ignorance with sprinkles of personal incredulity and you think that you know more than me... C'mon...
Your failure to understand basic geometry isint my problem, its yours.
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@RS-ij8id
"But it was about how unfair was to talk about people with different opinion from the mass as they were stupid"
Lets fact check here, definition for stupid: having or showing a great lack of intelligence or common sense.
While every single flat earther fails with basic geometry, not even talking about actual more complex calculations, we can safely call people like that stupid. You might not like this word and we could use something else, but facts remain facts, by definition of stupid flat earthers are stupid.
"Also how illogical is it to do so when modern science came from the same logic from people who were revolutionary at their time"
There is difference between creating new ideas for answers we currently dont have and questioning actual facts... You could have gotten away with flat earth claim few hundred years ago, but now you cant, questioning it only makes you look ignorant, at best.
"you use the "Perfect Sphere" which now you can put as you like.. but finally, you agreed."
Agreed on what exactly? That earth is spherical? Well yes, it is.
"Since you love Nasa"
Never said I love NASA or even care what they have to say in this matter... Avoid making straw man fallacies here...
"I do suggest you review the apollo 11 video"
Who the f**k cares? Like seriously, even if some one could demonstrate that 100% of everything NASA ever produced is fake, that will NOT disprove globe earth... We know that earth is a globe not because NASA said so... NASA only adds extra information in addition to dozens of other space agencies located across entire world. We knew that earth is a globe 2300 years ago, NASA isint that old...
" Even Thou, they are so far and the Earth looks that small, you clearly can still see the Earth Shape Irregularity and "asymmetric" characteristic as explained and aspected"
Do you not know what shadow is?...
"Quoting is a very known and widely used way to add more value to the content"
Quote mining isint. In general you can find quote for any position from any person if you will take quote out of context or try to miss interpret it in your own way to fit your personal needs.
"Well answered in the previous quote/reply"
What answered? You made a claim that you should notice earth not being perfect sphere, yet you failed to explain how would you notice HALF of pixel difference even when is a photo on your monitor, not even talking about real observation where you will not have any pixels you could use to count that difference... So explain to me instead of avoiding it.
"As explained earlier... you are incorrect."
As explained earlier... you are incorrect.
"Yet many things remain unexplained and need more digging."
Its like saying "Well I see this car, but I cant accept its existence because we dint explained how quarks behave in absolute zero environment"... You seam to want ALL answers to EVERYTHING what is slightly related to earths shape for you to accept that earth is a globe/sphere. Why? Earth is a globe even if we have no idea how rest of the world works, we know for a fact that its a globe, everything else is irrelevant here.
"The theory of Gravity is not the only one"
Which is relevant as caramel ice cream... You could debunk gravity and earth would still be a spherical... You can explain gravity and its still a sphere... You could prove that gravity is not a attraction force earth would still be a spherical... And this would be actual example of red herring fallacy.
"That is not it there are many other theories with equal resulting predictions"
Of what? Earths shape is not a theory, its a fact. Anything else is just your attempt to make red herring fallacy.
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@glennrobards585
"he setting sun can be zoomed in on by anyone, and show you it's the sun that is moving away."
But its not. Seriously, you never seen sunset where you can see half of the sun? Are you blind?
"Nobody can take a video of our observably flat and stationary earth."
What you feel in your balls doesn't determine reality.
"Anyone that says that the earth is a spinning globe is lying."
Or maybe they are just some one with basic education. Who knows...
"You can allege anything you want, but it's impossible for the earth to be rotating."
Why? Which laws of physics does spinning earth break?
"I would love to go to court with anyone that actually believes in the spinning globe."
Why would anyone want to do that? I mean, it would be hard to believe that anyone even allow for court case as stupid as this to even be accepted, but even then, what would we get from you? You clearly dont have money as you would already spent 2k on plane ticket witch goes over south pole or 5k for cruise ship around or 50k for 2 week trip to south pole on your own feet. So what can we gain from that? To prove that you are incorrect? We did that already... For free...
"I could sue some of these fight the flat earth people for libel who have called flat earthers liars"
Flat earthers are not liars, they are simply ignorant or uneducated. Well some are just trolls, pretend to be flat earthers for sake of attention.
" but I have observable proof of a flat and stationary earth."
Then come back when you get your Nobel's prize for your "evidence" that we live on space frisbee... Och wait, you don't even believe in space?...
"It would be like being offended if somebody called me a liar for saying that the sky is blue."
no no no, you are not sayin that sky is blue, you are saying that sky is made of flying elephants made of candies and they are pink and they are magical and evidence for that is your feelings in you balls!!!...
There is a reason why 99.9% of smartest people on earth are not flat earthers... Go figure...
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@vojislavdragic5090
"if sun was local and was follow following* flat earth bowl * it would still be going straigh while not changing size.."
False... Demonstrably false...
Do you even understand how reality works? Objects getting closer to you will get bigger, while going away from you, smaller. On flat earth model sun goes in circle over earth, which means that not only it should move in circular way, it should get closer to you under midday and then further away until sunset. This is not how we see sun in reality. It doesn't change size or speed, and moves in straight line across sky.
"do the experiment your self with a ball attached to string, while you being pivot( center).."
Yes, and it fails. ball changes size, you can always see ball, so no sunset or sunrise and it moves in circular way and its changing perceived speed... So your experiment proves that earth is not flat.
"therefore, your observation can be applied in flat earth mdel as well.."
It cant... if you seriously think that they can, then you need to go back to middle school and learn how geometry works... We are not even talking now about shape of earth, we are trying to educate you on geometry...
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@shmh6002
"It's in the Bible people."
Bible is not evidence, its a book and nothing more.
"I'm so sorry if none of you are believers but there's literal proof in the Bible and that's all I need."
Again, bible is the one which makes the claim, you need evidence to actually prove this claim to be true without using source of claim, otherwise you are just doing circular argument fallacy here.
"Not once does it say in there that there are even planets or that we live on a round earth spinning at astronomical speeds through outer space"
Exactly, while we know that we do live on a globe and we do fly through space and spin around, that would mean that your book is wrong.
"does anyone not realize how silly that sounds?"
Do you? Have you ever looked at your bible objectively and realized how silly that one sounds?
"How about we think for ourselves...."
Says some one who blindly believes what his book says because book said that its correct one... C'mon... How dont you see irony here?
" It was something that was made up by man all put into place to control"
Are we talking about globe earth or bible? Because this perfectly applies to bible, so now i'm comfused.
"Try doing research on your own and open your mind and be smart..."
Please, do that.
"Not everything we've been told in school is true"
Not everything we've been told in church/bible is true
" the " scientific" evidence to back up what I'm saying"
So can you present your BEST evidence for what you are saying here?
"I'm not claiming to be smarter than others or know things that others don't LOL just plain facts is all..."
Yet you want to claim to know more than smartest people on earth... I mean... C'mon... Majority of scientists are not even theists, waste majority of smartest people on earth knows that earth is a globe, yet you are here saying that its not because your book said so...
"God bless"
Which god?
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@timneilson5812
"so you with an open mind have looked at all these different theories cuz they are just theories"
There is reason why its called "Conspiracy theory"... Its no longer conspiracy theory when you can actually prove it.
" if you have studied the mud floods can you please explain to me why it's not in our history books and it only happened 200 to 250 years ago"
How is that related to anything? Even if this conspiracy was shown to be true, that doesn't change the fact that earth is a globe. I dont have time to go around and fact check every single conspiracy theory out there... We have thousands of those floating all over the place... But independent what that one says earth is still a globe...
"why it's not in our history books and it only happened 200 to 250 years ago"
Maybe because it never happen?... You literally asking me to explain why your unproven conspiracy theory is true... Its not... First of all, its not proven, second, we can present counter evidence for that, third, nobody really cares... This conspiracy is just slightly better then flat earth one, because flat earth is demonstrably false, while for this mud conspiracy you would actually need to look into evidence...
But like seriously, which argument you think is the best to prove your mud flood conspiracy?
"go to your own city and find those buildings in your own city"
What buildings? Building with windows near ground? That's what you think proves mud flood?... Are you kidding me? My parents house has those, and house was built like 30 years ago... Not because mud flood, but because its convenient to have natural light in basement...
Damn...
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@philaypeephilippotter6532
"Since my beliefs go beyond atheism it isn't semantically the right word."
What? Beyond atheism?... You can't have anything beyond atheism... You ether believe in god(s) or you dont, there are only 2 options here. Why its so hard for you to simply realize that you are atheist and then on top of that you have some extra beliefs which are not tided directly to atheism which are not relevant to my actual question?...
"But you limit yourself to either/or definitions (theist or atheist) which isn't semantically unreasonable but I've never limited myself that way"
And i'm not limiting myself to one single label... Its like for me to ask if you are a man and you answer with "I cant label myself as a man because i have more things about myself which requires more labels"... OK... I dint asked that... You can be something else on top of being an atheist, that label only indicates ONE thing about you, nothing else. If you want to add your new fancy word "apistevist" cool. Majority has no idea what that word even means, but yet you want to label yourself with that one instead of simply answering to the given question... Why? Why do you tap dance like a religious person instead of simply answering to an actual question?
"Why so aggressive and didactic?"
Not aggressive, just trying to figure out why are you so afraid to label yourself with some generic label and you want to tap dance all over the place.
"Have I offended you?"
You cant really offend me on internet, like seriously, you can talk anything you want here, will not get offended, i might get frustrated when people keep avoiding answer and i have to repeat myself multiple times in a row, but you will never offend me here.
"But there's no point in trying to get more information from me about my beliefs as none will be forthcoming."
In general i'm no longer interest in your actual beliefs, i'm more interested to know why you cant label yourself with a basic label which fits your current beliefs. For some strange reason you think that labeling yourself with "atheist" prevents you from having any extra beliefs or positions. Why?
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@philaypeephilippotter6532
Wait wait wait, you want to report me for harassment? Wasn't you who responded to my comment first? Shouldn't I report you for harassment then?... Damn... Its public forum, if you dont want to engage in conversations, then don't... I dint asked you to respond to my comment, yet you did, i responded to your response, we engaged in a conversation and now you want to report me for harassment?... Are you ok? Like seriously, think about it. You see 2 people talking on a street, you come to them and start talking with them and when you no longer like where conversation goes you start threatening that you will call police and accuse one of those people of harassment... What?
Going back to actual topic, what i was explaining to you is that you can only be one of two things: theist or atheist. If you dont like those labels, fine by me, wont change the fact that you are one of those things. You can label yourself in any way you want, but by general most common definitions of atheism/theism you will fall under one of those categories. Its like you would object that I labeled you "some one who is alive" and you responded with "But I'm not alive or not alive, I'm giblegook"... Well... Cool... You can say that, but you are still one of those things, ether alive or not, what you want to label yourself with will not change that fact...
So yea, good luck...
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@williammeadows3965
So every single translator who translated bible from original Hebrew is wrong by you then? I will suggest for you to go and fix it before making a claim that it actually should be different thing than it actually says... Will make it simpler for you.
"Revelation 7:1
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. (KJV) "
"Job 38:13
13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV) "
""He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 104:5)""
""He shakes the earth from its place and makes its pillars tremble. (From the NIV Bible, Job 9:6)""
""Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me, if you understand. (From the NIV Bible, Job 38:4)""
""that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it? (From the NIV Bible, Job 38:13)""
""He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in. (From the NIV Bible, Isaiah 40:22)""
All of those implies that earth is flat, your best thing you have to say that bible says that earth is sphere would be Isaiah 40:2 where you would pick different translation option which fits with reality better independent that actual expert scholars used different word for it.
Bible was written by ignorant people from that time, so its not surprising and natural to see that people implied that earth is flat because it was common belief at that time. There is no real reason to defend that in any shape or form. You have bigger issues with bible than making statements about earths shape.
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@williammeadows3965
"Most languages lose something going from one language to another it is the way of things"
Correct, yet actual expert scholars used word "circle" instead of "sphere"... Why? Maybe because this is more accurate word from a context? You might not like it because it contradicts actual reality, but again, it was written by ignorant people so mistakes are expected.
"Which is why U have to go back to the original languages to see what they really say"
So you want to claim that actual scholars made mistake translating?... Why are you here then? Go and fix bible...
"In the original language it say Sphere"
In original it says word which can be translated to circle or sphere or few other meanings. So on what basis you want to claim it to be "sphere"?
"We globe not a pancake. The old ones knew this."
They don't. Book of Isaiah is from 8 century BCE, while first globe model appeared around 3 century BCE in Greece. It wasn't common knowledge that earth is globe for long long time... And due to wage verses you "forgot" to address which talks about earth having pillars, corners and so on, its clear that people who wrote those verses thought that earth is flat.
Again, your best argument here is that one word might be translated to sphere if you use different translation meaning while actual scholar experts disagree with your personal opinion... C'mon...
"If U really need to believe the Earth is flat then U go a head then U go a head and believe that"
When did i said that i believe that earth is flat?... Earth is a sphere, oblate spheroid to be more accurate, but that doesn't change the fact that bible implies earth to be flat.
" U can also believe there are workshops at the north pole too"
Says some one who believes in wizards and magic because book said so.. C'mon... Lets not make insults... Och wait, too late.
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@williammeadows3965
"to call Ancient people primiive is very arrogant on your part"
Its not arrogance, its a fact. People at that time knew least amount about reality than at any time after that. Our knowledge increases with time, so in comparison to todays world they have been primitive.
Most people at that time dint even know how to write or read... If this is not primitive for you then i have no idea what is...
"They were a lot smarter than u are"
How? And on what basis would you claim that?
"Cirlcle does mean globe"
Circle by DEFINITION means flat disk. Avoid making shit up to justify something.
"the four corners means the four direction"
Making shit up.
"I must have stuck a nerv with u when i started using scripture"
No one struck my nerv, you can get annoying if you start spitting random silly nonsense. And scriptures are completely irrelevant, like completely... Bible is book of fables, its worthless when it comes to reality. So when i see some one quoting bible like it has any worth, its just annoying.
"I was mearly showing the the Bible says the Earth is a globe"
Which is incorrect, which what i was explaining to you. Bible doesn't say that earth is a globe, bible implies it to be flat.
There is another story in your bible where it says that you can see entire earth from big tree/mountain which is only possible if earth is flat.
"Now in your mind if it needs to be a flat disc okay. The rest of us know it is a globe"
You seam to not even read anything i write here... Earth is a globe... I know... I'm not flat earther... Will repeat: I'M NOT FLAT EARTHER. Surprised? Because i'm not.
"Arguing back and forth is not going to change that"
Correct, even after weeks of us arguing here bible will still say that earth is flat, that wont change as much as you would like it.
"At the end of the day you are still going to have your beliefs and I will still have mine."
Yet only one of us have rational beliefs based on reality.
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@Lux
"Science cannot explain certain phenomena."
Cannot or dint? Science could not explain why you have brown eyes couple hundred years ago... Doesn't mean reason behind your brown eyes is magic...
"they even lock you up without your own consent"
If you are some one who can cause harm to others, then well, there isint any other option here. Ether lock you up or risk in having injured or dead people. Cant say that everyone deserves that who got locked, but when you have unstable mind state its better to be safe then sorry.
"When I was battling with those demons"
You mean when you had broken mind state?
"they imposed me pills when I was clear about the fact that I am christian"
How is you being Christian makes you expert in human brain work? Do you seriously think that being Christian makes you a neurologist or psychiatrist?
"because I know from where it comes from"
Your brains, everything you do comes from your brains... Proven fact from actual reality...
"So what's your point about saying that what science tells you is objective and credible?"
Evidence. While your claim that your fu**ed up state was caused by demons living in spiritual plane is just... Well... Delusions of yours... Tho its just result of your brainwashing done by your parents or local church or whatever did that to you.
"For example, "schiz*******" is not a mental issue, but demonic"
Based on what evidence? Like seriously, do you even know what evidence is? Or reality?
" The victim claim to hear voices"
yes... We have plenty of those... From different religions... Claiming to hear voices from dozens of different sources... Its like they are victims of their own mind making shit up...
Do you even believe that humans can experience hallucinations? Now i'm just curious here...
"but Jesus after a lot of prayers and certain spiritual procedures."
So when you will break your leg you will not go to hospital but you will pray and it will get healed? Or not? When does your praying actually works? Can we test it? Because some one already did test pray, it failed... Miserably...
"Believe what you want, this is my testimony and some people know about my spontaneous change."
And some people say that Elvis is still alive and some say that they got abducted by aliens and some say that forest pixies are real because they seen them with their own eyes... So i guess we should believe ALL of them just because they say that its true... Well sorry, this is not how reality works.
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@Lux
4 long comments?... And then you accuse me of not addressing your every single claim... C'mon... I have better things to do then writing essay on youtube comment sections...
"Redundant. Check the meaning of "ancestor", we humans use it."
? You claimed that by evolutionary view we evolved from monkeys, this is factually wrong, its not redundant, its just wrong... Humans and monkeys share common ancestor, that doesn't mean we came from monkeys...
"you claim is the ardipithecus ramidus (a monkey, check)"
Ardipithecus ramidus is not a monkey, its a primate... Check...
"So, basically, we have animal features because our (great(x1M)-grandmother) experimented with one of them? "
What the what now? We are animals, by definition of animals, we are animals. We don't have features of animals, we are animals... Check...
"Do I?"
Yes.
"graphical explanation (which is more accurate) shows the EVOLUTION of a monkey becoming a man"
Once again, false. Not a monkey, primate. You could say it was an ape, that that would actually be redundant, because humans are apes. So yea... You not only have no idea what evolution is but you have no idea what some words mean...
""Who did create you?" lethal weapon is: "no, we are descendants of the monkeys". LOL"
First of all, that's a loaded question. Who said that we are created? Second, cherry picking random atheists who miss use word are not representation of atheism or evolution in general... If you have some one saying that we evolved from monkeys, then they are factually wrong. So i have no idea what are you getting to here. I can point you to theists who says that magical forest pixies are real, does that mean its your position too?... Lets talk between us and avoid bringing up some one else... Otherwise you will loose even more then you did already.
"According to the dictionary, it means gradual change and there is no such thing as passing from one specie to another."
Just a friendly suggestion to you. When you try to present definition of a word, actually present definition of a word... Like this
Evolution: "is change in the heritable characteristics of biological populations over successive generations"
Speciation is just a label put on groups of animals which cant inter breed. And we have actual speciation recorded. Check "ring species" or fruit fly experiment...
And just FYI your personal opinion doesnt define reality. Present evidence that change in gene pool cant result in speciation. I will wait.
" The caterpillars are born insects and even when they pass metamorphosis to become butterflies, they are still insects"
? Insect is not even a species... Its a whole category... Like mammals... Or fish... And you terrible understanding what evolution is, is just... sad...
"Even in the animal kingdom itself, cats don't turn into tigers"
Yes, because that would be stupid... Luckily this is not what evolution says to be true... Who could known...
" So I'm not wrong when I refer to hominid theory as a "mutation""
What? Theory is a mutation? What the what now? Do you speak english?
"I didn't call it that way, your illuminated scientists did."
I have no idea what you called it, but it was as scientific as to call Ardipithecus ramidus a monkey... Damn...
Ok, as you can see, even one comment resulted into esey. Will not bother to address anything else. Lets stay on ONE topic.
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@Lux
"Repeat with me: humans and monkeys share a common ancestor."
Yes, and whats your point? You repeating what i said...
"Why are we humans related to animals?"
Humans are animals. Dint you get that first time i said it? How many times i need to repeat same thing before you understand it?
"do we have a shared gen because of our grand(x1M)-father had king kong complexes?"
We have shared genes, not one, quite few of them, because we have common ancestor.
"I'm glad those we mention here are theories, imagine if they were universal laws."
Och, you one of those.... Sorry, dint realized that you dont even understand what scientific theory is... Sorry about that... Well, homework for you then: learn what scientific theory is.
If you fail with next replay, i can educate you, just to make you look less ignorant on basic things.
"It's a fact gorillas, chimpanzees, bonobos, orangutans, whatever... don't turn into humans."
evolutionary
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@Lux
"I made a question, so stop making assumptions, develope your texts."
Ironically i have no idea what was your question as you never developed your own text properly... Irony...
" That assumption makes me realize how traumatized you are after watching Tarzan a lot of times."
What? Tarzan is a animated movie (original one) which depicts fictional story. Tho i have no idea why should i be traumatized... Can you develop your text more properly? Like actually explain why should i be traumatized?
"Oh really? so tell the scientists to stop categorizing us as exclusively humans"
? Just because you got categorized as human doesn't mean you don't share same genes as other animals.... Damn... Your sentence makes as much sense as for me to complain that house and motel doesn't share similar things when they have different labels... They are different, but at same time they have similar stuff in them... Same as Humans and monkeys are different but share quite allot of same DNA...
"(because as far as I know there are 3 kingdoms)"
? Are you trolling here? Like seriously, are you just trying to troll me here? Well i will assume that you are, you cant be that ignorant...
"or to invent a new word to define a mixture between an animal and a human"
That's how reality works... We literally are making labels to separate one animal from another... bonobos have 98.7% DNA what humans have. That tiny 1.3% defines them as different species and due to that bonobos got different labels than humans... Its just a label...We are always putting it on a new species we discover even if it looks like another, if it cant interbreed, its a new species for which we will make a new word... Welcome to reality...
"I am going to use my ace up my sleeve to challenge and expose science"
I can bet this will be gooooood!
"Yes, then if it's a LAW, explain why the members of the rainbow flag (code words) break that supposed LAW."
Yeap, i was correct, this one was a gooooood crazy one.
"Yes, they can't explain it because demons hate original nature and love to create chaos"
Wait, dint you just tried to make a joke by saying "Yes, you love fairy tales a lot. " and you continue this with talks about demons?! Ok...
"So, they will never finish developing that answer because science doesn't believe in demons."
Yes, stupid questions should not be answered, just a waste of time.
"And going back to the main theme "what I don't see or touch doesn't exist", I already beat you apparently."
I dint see that... Where was it? Can i touch it?
"You don't see the wind and oxygen, but you feel them going in and out of your nose, PERIOD."
Yet i can detect wind and oxygen, measure it and so on. And in general, you can touch wind (like literally, wind creates pressure difference which is same thing as touching) and i can touch oxygen, ever seen liquid oxygen? What about solid oxygen? PERIOD.
Damn, that was easy do demolish your card house. Lets do it again!
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@Lux
"Go back to school and then you will to be able to conclude an idea."
I see you have experience with that...
"atheists die and nobody will remember them"
Which is obviously false statement. Do you remember guy named Stephen Hawking? That one was an atheist... What about Christopher Hitchens? Atheist and his name will is remembered and will be.
So yea, you are wrong, again.
"meanwhile God's name"
God is just a label, abstract label. Zeus is a god too, yet you would not say that he is same as god you believe in. And making argument from popularity will not get you anywhere. You would know this is you ever went back to school and learned some basics about reality.
"What happens here is that some people like you are angry because he doesn't save children that are suffering right now"
Och no no no, i have no anger towards Voldemort, i dont have any towards your god ether. I LITERRALY dont believe that he is real, i cant be angry about his actions... Do you even understand what atheism is?...
"Life is well designed"
First of all, who said that its designed? And second, life is good at killing people... Do you know what average life expectancy was like 2000 years ago? Around 30 years... Do you know what it is right now? 72.6 years. Do you know why? Science. Due to progress in science we have learned how to live longer and better lives, not because your sky wizard did something, but because humans learned how to do shit.
"the problem is that a rebel angel wants"
The problem is that you still presuppose that magic is real without actually proving that it is...
"you're fleshly and I am spiritual"
? Are you saying you are not human? If i damage your brain, will you remain you? What is the difference between being this "fleshy" and "spiritual"? Is this just a mental state? Belief system?... C'mon... Use your own advice "Go back to school and then you will to be able to conclude an idea."
"flesh dies and spirit not, because it's energy."
PROVE IT.
"Demons won't show their horrible faces if they don't possess a body"
PROVE IT.
"but they can fly around a house breaking objects"
PROVE IT.
"they're fallen angels who turned themselves into demons "
PROVE IT.
"Their energies stay in the earth's crust and they can go up and down as long as humans want."
PROVE IT.
"that's the purpose of the devil, to corrupt you"
Does that mean that devil is more powerful then your god or your god just like to watch how devil does this to humans? It needs to be one of those options. Well, presupposing bunch of shit before hand, but if we do, you have to pick one of those.
"The consequences of the path you chose will be yours, not mine, I already warned you."
Why does this sound more like a threat? You cant even prove anything you said to be true, yet you are here saying that i should believe you because otherwise i will be punished... C'mon...
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@Gottum365
" limitation meaning there's a limit of what you can see with your own two eyes"
And? buy a 1 million telescope, will you be able to see entire US with it?... Nope... Your eye limitation is irrelevant here because we can't see entire earth not because your had bad eye sight, but because we have curvature.
Yet you dint addressed my question, again, why cant we see more than 50% of stars? How the hell does it work when entire sky, from horizon to horizon, is covered with stars but its only 50% of those... How the hell would that work on flat earth?
" we do have Valleys mountains and Hills plus countless trees all of these things could obstruct your field of view"
Yet that doesn't explain why you cant see entire earth from Mount Everest... Or from a plane... Or from anything what flies above your mentioned obstructions... We still have that same limitations which slightly increases with your increased altitude matching 100% to globe model, its like earth is actually a globe...
" but the Earth's curvature I have never seen it but I have seen the flat Horizon"
Horizon is not flat... Get any photo editor, even MS Paint will do... Draw a line representing you as human, then draw a circle in same scale to be 1:1 matching globe model and realize that you need to zoom out quite a bit before you start noticing any curvature in that circle...
And just FYI give me ANY image/video taken from high altitude without fish eye lens distortion and i will show you curvature in that photo, I dare you!
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@afterthestorm7012
"Why do most globe earthers have to get abusive"
Because we are allergic to ignorance.
"while they try to defend the ball earth?"
We dont defend globe earth, we educate people like you about reality. I rarely need to actually prove that earth is globe, 90% of time i have to educate people about basic geometry and basic physics and so on.
"Air pressure because we live under a dome"
Why? Air should be dense equally on all altitudes, why does it have different density? It does make sense on globe earth with gravity, but it makes 0 sense on flat one... What force crates this gradient of presure?
"Here watch these"
Eric Dubay? Are you kidding me?... He is one of the worst ones who tried to prove flat earth... Tho i don't even think he is actually a flat earther but simply makes living from selling snake oil to people like you.
"He has many vids to look at"
And? Quantity is not equal to quality. And instead of pointing to bunch of videos, why would you simply present your best argument from flat earth and lets see if it holds or not?...
"Until you've watched them, stop your aggressive attitude. "
Why do you think that i'm not familiar with flat earhers claims? I can bet i have seen more of them then you did and i can debunk all of them in no time... So present YOUR argument here or go home.
"You're going to look silly, when you finally succumb to the truth."
You have no idea how ironic this one sounds.
"I posted a long reply with videos for you to watch. It all got removed"
Well actually i can see it. But in general avoid making comments with bunch of links, youtube tends to filter those ones out automatically.
"ask yourself why would U-tube do that"
It did not did that... And if it did its a basic content filter to avoid people coming here and posting advertisements. Youtube doesnt care about your flat earth opinion, if it did you would not have Dubay videos on youtube... You do realize that you contradict yourself here? You literally have hundreds if not thousands of videos promoting flat earth on youtube and you think that its removing your comments about flat earth?.... THINK BEFORE YOU POST.
"watch the over 6 hour vodeo"
Are you kidding me?... You seriously think that i will waste 6 hours of my life watching some propaganda when even his first point from any video is demonstrably false?...
"Stop your condescending attitude"
Cant stop myself to talk with people in this way when they think that they are smarter than 98% of human population because Dubay said so... C'mon, lets be real here...
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@afterthestorm7012
"Look, I am being real"
And you ended your comment with a quote from your ancient book... C'mon... Lets be real here...
"There is so much deception in the material that NASA has put out"
Who cares even if this empty assertion of yours was true? Earth is globe not because NASA said it...
"Not one full image of the earth, is real"
Provide method which you used to determine that. Be first flat earther who does that from literally dozens who i asked and 100% of them failed.
"In the earth photos, they are using photoshop, copying clouds"
its called: composites... Just like you have with panorama photos you make with your phone... And not all photos of earth are composites, we do have single shot photos.
"n one of the cloud groups, it says the word "sex", this is no accident"
Seeing recognizable objects or patterns in otherwise random or unrelated objects or patterns is called pareidolia
"Over the years, all the different countries are all different sizes"
yes, because it depends from which altitude you take photo of earth... Should i seriously teach you basic geometry?
"They have supposedly lost the telemetry data, to the moon. So they can't get back there"
Cant go back there? From whose ass you took this information?
"They talk about the big problem of getting through the Van Allen Belt. Yet, supposedly they did it in 1969, in an aluminum can. "
Do you even know what belt is?... Its a strip... If you cant go throw it, you can... Wait for it... GO AROUND IT... What they actually did in 69... They are not lying and not contradicting what happen, you simply failing to understand basic reality... Belt is not a dome, you can go around it... Not so convenient as to go throw it, as you need more time and fuel, but as we cant go throw it, we have to go around it... Do you understand?
" How does a plane land on this moving object 19 mp/sec?"
Basic physics... Conversation of momentum... For same exact reason if you jumped inside of plane which goes at 700km/h you will not be smashed at end of it... Same exact principle... PHYSICS.
"How come a flight from the east coast of the US, to the west coast, take about the same time"
Cha... About... Yea, about, not exact. Travel times are slightly different, you can check any longer flights to both sides and compare times. One way will be slightly faster.
"There are many more questions you should ask yourself, concerning these areas, I have identified"
I did, differently than you i got basic education how physics or geometry work and i know that everything about global earth is correct and doesnt contradict reality. Flat earth on another hand... Doesn't even have working model...
"You have no idea of all the information I have seen pertaining to this subject"
Is this information you have seen is similar to what you just presented... Then sorry, but you have nothing.
"Absolutely, nothing YOU can say, will change my mind"
Its called: being closed minded.
You dont care what is true, you simply want it to be true independent if it is. This is literally what you just said. Think about it.
"Calling me names and others"
What names? Which part was insulting to you?
"with my new (approximately 5 years) understanding. "
So basically like i said, 5 year old arguments...
And then you listed bunch of quotes... Ok... Good for you... How this helps your case exactly?
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@ronfrederico7251
"Knowing God is real has nothing to do with religion it’s about faith."
Which position you CAN'T take based on faith? Can I say that your entire comment is 100% false based on faith? Because I can, which would mean that your entire argument got demolished by using your own broken rules here.
"My faith and knowledge comes from the Holy Spirit."
Which you cant prove to be true. So what is the difference between your knowledge and some one having delusions?
"Your the one claiming to have a religion which is based upon your selfish feelings upon a foundation of “me, I , my feelings”"
Isint your entire religion based on the idea that god created everything just for you?
"I have heard about your religion and you did not create it."
Yes, because I dont have religion, so there is nothing to be created.
"Satan is it’s creator and you are blinded by the veil of satan who is the king of lies."
Dint your god created lies? By the way, in bible, garden of eden story, when god says that if Adam eats the apple that he will die and when he doesn't, did god lied?
"God will deal with your blasphemy"
If god cant handle Satan, then he has no chance with me.
And, is this a threat?
"In the end you will be pulling your hair and gnashing your teeth!!!"
Why?
"Don’t respond this is between you and God then you will know He is God."
Which god? You never proved that there is god... So why are you saying all this? Why should I even care what you are saying here while you never proved that anything in your words is worth listening too?
"I’m blocking you"
You might want to read your own book of fables, there is a verse which says that you should obey your master and be ready to present your reasons why you believe, otherwise you will burn in hell, so if you block me you will burn in hell, right? Soooo, using your own religion against you. Explain to me your reasons why you believe. Obey your master!
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@statinskill
"Hitler was a movement of millions with a million of grievances"
You do know that Hitler was a person in power?...
"I wonder why Germans never did anything to them?"
Red hearing fallacy?
"I'm asking people to critically evaluate information and to distrust"
Thats cool and dandy, but only when you apply this to something what was not factually confirmed... Earth is a globe, thats a fact, you might lack of basic understanding of it, but it doesnt change the fact.
"Alleged, because I really have no way of knowing whether that really happened"
You do know that they left reflectors on the moon which can and are used to measure distance to the moon with lasers? With some basic knowledge an some what expensive tools, as you need relatively powerful laser, you can test that yourself.
Tho this is besides the point. We know that humans can go to space, ISS is prime example of that. Going to the moon isint extremely more difficult than this, so there is no good reason to think that some one would create such conspiracy, there is no point in doing so. Especially when this was done to piss off russians and beat them to the moon. If this was a hoax, Rusians would have happily exposed that to entire world and humiliated US with that. But it never happen, because we actually went to the moon...
"All you have is a bunch of greyish pictures"
Yes, moon landing was in 69... What do you expect, 8k video?...
There are plans from NASA to go back to the moon in 2024, so you might actually get 8k 60fps video from that trip. After all, spacex made space travel allot cheaper now, so we can start planing bigger trips to the moon and eventually to mars.
"And they're not even the originals because NASA supposedly "lost" those"
Is loosing original makes copies fake? Because if this is the case, you might want to talk with Christians, they might be quite unhappy with this view, after all, bible is based on copies of original texts, which would make bible a fake book.
"This singular most notable and exceptional accomplishment of the twentieth century, bug nobody took care to preserve it?"
You do know that we went to the moon more than once?... You do know this?
"my friend are sharp daggers that poke holes into the official narrative"
Not really, well, not at all. In general, nobody cares what some tiny portion of uneducated people claim to be true, reality is independent from those individuals. We might spend some time with them, but in general, moon landing did happen, earth is a globe and what is your personal opinion about that will not change anything.
"And it seems the official narrative is also your personal comfort zone, so I think I'm looking holes into that as well. And I really like that idea."
Lets get this straight, because i'm encountering quite few people like you here. Lets for sake of argument say that: moon landing never happen, NASA lied 100% times, government lied 100% times, there is global conspiracy which is made of 2 billion people. Lets just say that this is the reality, for sake of argument. Even if all this was true, that would NOT disprove shape of the earth. You can dismiss moon landing, dont really care, that doesnt change actual point of this video and this conversation, shape of the earth.
Your attempt to redirect conversation in attempts to present some nick pick and say something like "See, they said that X is true, but its false, so that means that everything they said is lie", sorry, but this is not how reality works. If you want to disprove moon landing, then do that, you will need to disprove every reported moon landing and avoid making irrelevant points about lost tapes from original one... Even if they dint filmed original landing that would not make it false.
So yea, earth is still demonstrably a globe, moon landing is still irrelevant and you still dont have a valid argument here. So whats new?
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@chrisross4898
"Question what are reading or studying from?"
What?
"To call everything you see as false or fake, what kind of education do you have?"
When did I made such claim? And how is my education relevant here? I could be some one who never went to school or some one with 10 Nobel prizes, would not make any difference in what i'm saying here...
" This again lets me know you not to bright"
Riiiiiight, and some one who blindly believes some con artists that there are magical portals because they said so in their paid book is the bright one...
"to me gaia.com is way more accurate to me than everyone in this chat."
Yes, because you have no idea how to evaluate actual evidence or what counts as evidence. I can bet that you cant present any actual evidence for your portal claims, cant you now? And how do you know that their claims are accurate? Because they said so? Have you fact checked their claims or just blindly believing?
"The only reason they make people pay, is cuz they want to oppress the knowledge"
Riiiiiight... Most important information about our universe should be behind paywall... Sounds legit... Not...
"You want too want to suppress people knowledge, saying that not true"
Do i have knowledge behind paywall or your gaia? I'm not suppressing anything. You failure to realize that gaia is just con artists making a buck from people like you is just... Sad... Well, my suspicion is that you have spent on them couple hundred bucks by now and you simply cant face possibility that you might have been conned. Em I wrong here? How much did you spent on their "information"? 10? 100? More than 1000? I dont need exact number, just approximation, if you brave enough to disclose that.
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@carsonkendall1924
"You guys always get hung up on the model.."
Maybe because its a core thing?... If you don't even have model, then everything else flies throw window... I could literally make a claim that earths surface is convex, or that earth is donut or that earth is shaped as unicorn... That will never fly if i cant provide actual model how earth like this could exist while at same time this model would not contradict reality.
" Don't worry about how it works, we will never fully know"
But we do, this is why we know that its a globe. Your ignorance if not proof of anything.
"No one is saying they have it all figured out.."
I do and billions of others...
"You should try and first prove we are on a ball"
Sunset. Boom, done.
"Try and prove the curvature over long distances using the earth curve formula, 8 inches per mile square"
Its a formula for parabola... And where do you insert altitude of observer and observed object in this formula?... Do you see issue here? Do you understand why flat earthers never prove their claim?... You dont even understand what you are trying to defend or debunk... So how could you achieve anything at all...
And lets ignore formula, because its clear that you have no idea how those work, lets simply look at reality, that reality where objects at some distance start to disappear bottoms up over the horizon and even having 1000000x zoom will not bring them back. This is only possible on a globe, not on flat surface. So there you go, another proof that earth is a globe.
" but just because we don't understand something, doesn't mean it can't work or isn't true"
False. Your ignorance is not proof. We have people who do understand how reality works and do understand how to determine shape of earth. Just because you failed on 7th grade geometry doesn't mean that everyone else did too... Smartest people on earth knows that earth is a globe, majority of humanity knows that... So just because you dint understood something in school, doesnt make it false.
"The top reasons are, lack of curvature over long distances"
Which is false.
http://stupidconspiracies.org/misc/toronto.gif
Simple image, we have thousands of those. You are demonstrable wrong here... Still...
"gyroscopes and plane travel in general,"
Gyroscopes in planes compensate for curvature, there are videos demonstrating that...
Planes follow earths curvature due to basic physics... Gravity is a thing too... And if you looked at plane travel on a flat representation of earth, they do look strange, until you put those flight paths on a globe, then you have nice straight lines from point A to point B
"the lack of movement in the stars"
False again... Bernard's star, is one of those which got recorded movement over couple decades. Google that one out.
"and the bible and how that describes the earth."
Who cares what some book says? Bible was shown to be irrelevant for multiple reasons and one of this is that it claimed that earth is flat when its not.
"Check out the michelson morley"
Honestly, i dont care. Ether present your best evidence or dont mention some random people here.... Because i can mention you 100x more of those who will support normal position here... Globe...
"Bedford Level experiment."
Which proves globe... Try again...
So i will ask again, what is the difference between flat earth society and flat earth movement?
You literally presented 101 arguments from every single flat earther i ever encountered, you dint presented anything new here... nothing... Failed on every single point... Exposed your ignorance on basic geometry and math... So i still cant see any difference here...
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You can believe in 2 different self contradictory claims, tho that one is called cognitive dissonance.
Scientific theory is wildly different from just a theory... In science you can't go any higher than a theory, it's the final point in explaining something. To convert it in layman's terms it would be more like "Scientific fact", tho science doesn't like it and used different, more honest, word.
I have no idea what you tried to say about that bar showed across planet... And no idea how that leads to capitalism... Do you even know what science is?
And global warming? What the what now? Going all heads on into woods?
Just under 3000 miles under your feet? JUST? And its more complicated question, at exact center of earth you will have ZERO G's, because gravity is caused by the mass and when you have all this mass all around you in more or less equal proportions, then you will have zero G's at exact center. Digging straight down would lower gravity until it hits Zero, gradually. No idea what that has todo with anything here, but there you go, you got your answer.
G is just acceleration... If there is no acceleration then there is no G forces being applied to you... We are orbiting sun, aka falling towards it, aka experiencing zero G's from it. Moon dos have tiny amount of effect, this is why we have tides, but its so small effect hat you will never notice it on your own. For remaining planets, those are too far and too small to have any actual effect.
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@chasleask8533
"Like , can they spell? Do they understand basic grammar?"
You do realize that there are more than one country and more than one language in the world and people you are talking with might not be from your local area?... Its internet... It doesn't have borders... Unless you are in north Korea...
" 'When you go up in a plane you can see the curve' . Go and get a ball and see why you don't"
What the what now? Ball is flat? What the hell did you tried to imply here?
"'Ships disappear over the horizon'. Until you view them through a suitable optical device"
False. Ships which actually disappear over horizon and not those which got too small for you to see will not be broth back into view. This is generic flatardian claim 101 which is as childish as it gets. Disappearing OVER horizon already defines that ship is partially or completely hidden by horizon, getting 10000000x zoom will not make it go back... Do you even know how zoom works?...
" Unlike you people , I haven't made up my mind yet"
Because you are too ignorant on basic reality, like how zoom works...
"That's because I'm extremely intelligent"
Its a joke? Right?
"and I realise that I am not yet in possession of all the facts."
Well you are right about that...
" Consider that I may be stupid"
Och, and we are, all of us consider that.
"Reality ALWAYS makes sense. ...........Unless you're stupid , of course."
Yes, like thinking that we live on flatardia while basic observation of sun with a solar filter which costs 1 buck disproves it...
So yea, globe model is not stupid, your questions are.
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@Люба-б7ы
"for Jesus to come come back everything has to be for fulfilled"
Which was said for hundreds of years by those screaming people... You are not original here, everyone said exactly same thing you are saying now, all of them failed, why do you think that you are correct?
"Look back how the world use to be and how it’s now??"
So you think that dark ages have been better times than today's world? WW2? Bubonic Plague from 1346 to 1353? And you think that having corona is worst than that?... Have you ever opened history book?
"Look at how many Christians fallen away from God??"
Thank god... Pun intended. Luckily religions are on downfall and this is mainly due to easy access to information so any empty assertion you will make can be fact checked, just like you claiming that its the worst times we live in can be fact checked and shown to be false in no time.
" Bible predicted it, it will happen so it’s happening."
Bible predicted that in 2022 there will be less Christians? Which verse are you talking about here exactly?
" Keep on waiting and thinking it will get better, it won’t!!!"
And when it does get better, will you become atheist or will you change your tune and simply push this end time date few decades down the line just like every other theist until now did?
"I have a feeling you were also religious person part of those millions that had fallen away from God"
Yes, I was brainwashed into being religious, luckily my parents haven't been hard core believers and we haven't been forced to attend church and similar noesnese, so all this religious nonsense just faded away over the years and one day realized that i'm an atheist.
Getting rid of brainwashing takes time.
"will you still love him in the dark times or not? "
I dont believe that he is real... Why do you even asking me question like that?... Its like me asking "Would you worship Voldemort in dark times?" it just makes no sense...
"How it’s better? Crime has increased, is that called better? "
Global crime rates are basically at its lowest in entire human history... What the hell are you talking about?
"People don’t socialize with each other like they use to, is that called better? "
Like you mentioned before, people change, socialization changed too. Now you can talk with people across entire world without leaving your house, just because you tend to have less eye to eye meatings doesn't change the fact that currently you know more people than before.
And is this seriously your criteria for your Jesus guy to end the world, Facebook?... I mean... Facebook is a cancer, so maybe...
"You can’t go for a walk in a beautiful peaceful night, is that called better??"
You can, if you live in shitty country with shitty community and you cant do that, then yea, it bad for you personally, but in overall its none issue, its none issue for me, i can go outside at any time without any fear to be shoot in a head.
"In fact world gone worse!!"
Your "facts" doesn't match reality...
"The way world is going i hope i die soon!! Don’t wanna wait till I’m 50,80 or 100."
So world wont end for next 50+ years? How long should I wait until I can call bullshit on your claim that its "end times"?
"nearly every single thing has been for filled in the bible and you still don’t believe that there is God??"
First of all, nothing was fulfilled from your book what counts as actual prophesy, but aside of that, even if your book had actual predictions, like it said "In 2019 by Gregorian calendar there will be world wide pandemic" that would still not prove that god is real, you would need to determine that it wasnt self fulfilling prophesy, like some believer releasing virus just to make this "prophecy" come true, aside of this, it could also be just a lucky guess, because atleast lucky guess can happen, your god wasnt even shown to be possible, let alone that he is real.
"That is trying to talk to us and it is God! "
If he is real and he is actually trying to talk with us, he is shitty at it... Even I could give more clear signs that i'm real, heck, this comment is better proof that i'm real than anything else you have to show that your god is real.
"God show me that he is real!!"
How do you know that it wasnt delusion? Because Muslims will say exact same thing about Allah, so who is correct here?
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@petercat4481
"3D model in sketch up make arrangement for its reciept"
From when does sketcup includes atmospheric refractions and similar shit? Is there a option to simulate that? Or is this a extra plugin i need to install? Och wait, there is none... Because its not made to do that... So you literally using tools to try figure out something what it was never made for... Do you even know how to science?... And ironically enough you said "that how science work" och no no no, that's not how science works, this is how you work when you are far far far away from being a scientist or even using scientific method.
"Your answer is devoid of any Geometery or reason"
Ok, lets check your knowledge about geometry: Should sun change perceived size over flat earth? Should it change over globe? What does reality say about sun? Does it change size?
" its amazing all you scientism religious"
Its fun to see people trying to lower science to religions level just to have fighting chance while at same time admitting that their position is in shitty place and they need to do that in order to keep floating. Thanks.
"How convienent you have no 3d model showing how its possibe to see mercury 22.5 degrees after sunset"
And you will not have it. There are multiple complex things involved into this and your basic model in sketchup will not demonstrate a shit... You could have atleast used some decent 3d software which could simulate light refraction... But no, you picked generic 3d modeling software which is made to create chairs and you complain that it doesn't match reality... C'mon... Are you joking here?
And the fact that at some point you can no longer see it shows that it does hide behind curvature. So, as you admitted that we live on a globe, lets talk about more complex things: light refraction. What do you know about this phenomenon?
"There is a reason for this its not possible"
Like what?
"The are of course other tell tell signs the heliocentic model and globe are BS such as gyroscopes"
Care to elaborate? You keep making shit arguments here while never supporting them with actual evidence... You do realize that for you to prove something you actually need to... Prove it?... You do know this? Right?
"thanks for the chat and lack of any evidence caluations or model "
Not my job to teach you basics about reality. If you skipped middle school, then i would suggest to go back there and learn something... Then we can talk like grownups.
"Guess people should just believe in your religion because you insult people"
Not a religion, cant be a religion by definition. And my insults are irrelevant to the fact that you are demonstrably wrong on all fronts.
Like seriously, by using your "scientific" method i can pick a earths map, lay it on table, turn on lights in a room, realize that entire map is lit evenly 24/7 and call flatardia bullshit. Done, i did your "scientific" experiment and proved that we dont live on space pancake. Tho you already admitted that we live on a globe, so maybe that one was not needed to do, but well, dint hurt.
Sooo, light refraction, what do you know about that?
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@petercat4481
"See your loosing your religion."
Id don't have religion, so maybe you are right and i'm not only loosing, i completely lost it which was called: Catholicism.
" As a scientist find you religious ferver is very tragic especially as you claim to be scientific lol"
Yea, lol, when i see people claiming that my position is not scientific when entire scientific world supports my position. Lol.
" to do so either running away at the first hint of getting into actual mathematics or true reviewable models."
You literally using incorrect tools for your "experiment" and you want to call me none scientific one? Are you joking? FYI I used your method and disproved flatardia already. Yet your experiment only rises question why we see something for longer period of time then we should and not that earth is not a globe.
"Despite years of time it appears no Glober (preprogrammed NPC) has produced a working 3D model that can be examined and scrutinised"
Google maps?
"Offering you the same you try to distract with BS are you claiming we see a reflection of mercury in the DOME at 22.5 degrees after sunset ?"
What dome? What reflection? Are you drunk? I said REFRACTION not reflection... Do you even read? Can you read?
"When you or your ilk want to demonstrate something by producing models maths ie a scientific explination go ahead"
I'm not here to teach some ignorant people something more complex than + when you cant even understand basics about geometry. Earth is a globe, observable fact. After we will agree on this basic reality then we can move to something more complex. Light refraction, like i said before, is like fifth step, we currently are at step 0 you still failing to understand. So, step by step we will get to your silly question, but we cant answer it if you cant understand first 4 steps. It will be waste of time if we will skip steps. So yea, do you agree that earth is a globe?
"Suggest you go back to school and learn how to argue your case"
Exactly, please do that.
" to examine an actual 3D model which destorys your religion (the heliocentirc model)"
Like i said, learn to walk before you try to run. We dint got to the heliocentric model, that would be step 7 or step 8.
Soooo, lets try it slowly this time: Is earth a globe?
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@petercat4481
"Your religion is the heliocentic model "
Still not a religion. Tho its cute that your still trying to imply that.
"We can agree that a 3D to scale model will not show how its possible to observe Mercury 22.5 degrees (1.5 hours) after sunset."
Did you sketchup model included light refraction? No? So your model is invalid, case closed.
See how its simple to destroy your silly experiments?
"the heliocentic globe model does not represent reality"
How would you know this? How would reality look like if it was heliocentric? Would we see unicorns flying around?... Like seriously, you are trying to argue against something what by your words doesnt make sense while you cant even explain why it doesnt make sense... And... What makes sense to you and what is actually real are completely different things.
"you fail to produce any mathmatics, model or data to support your case."
Once again, light refraction. I already provided this couple comments back... Your failure to realize that light refraction resolves your main issue is not my problem, its yours.
"Thats why your loosing your religion because your belief dont align with reality"
Damn... Atleast you make me laugh.
"Incidently this is just one of many failings of the heliocentric globe model"
You have more ignorant argument to present?... Ok... Go for it!!! We can debunk those too.
FYI You need to prove flatardia and not to look for possible issues with globe model. After all, even if your issues with globe model would even been correct you would still need to actually disprove globe model and that in general could only be done by proving that earth is a space pancake. So good luck with that.
"RIP globe theory"
If that helps you sleep at night, ok.
So yea, no idea if your are just some sad troll here or just some religious nutjob. Your sketchup model doesn't disprove anything, not a tiny bit. You can repeat it over and over again, will not disprove globe model, because globe is a fact, observable and testable fact from reality and not your sketchup model... I still cant stop smirking while realizing that you tried to disprove globe model with sketchup... Make a chair in it, will be more usefull.
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@petercat4481
"So your sayingthat in order to believe in your religion"
Still trying to compare science with religion? That's cute.
"to believe in your religion I must accept the globe"
No, first of all you need to understand basic observations and what they mean. Like a sunset. Only possible on a globe. And couple other dozen things which can be confirmed by you independent from any sketchup models and similar. If you cant even understand how basic reality works, then there are no chance for you to understand explanation for your original question and at this point, your original question is irrelevant. Earth is globe even if you could see Mercury 24/7... Why you can see that would be separate question AFTER we can agree on the shape of earth, not before that.
its like trying to teach 5 year old about rocket science when he cant even understand what is fire... Or combustion... Or rockets... Learn to walk before you try to run.
"Are there any members of your religious sect who are more intelegent than you that are capable of showing their workings out?"
I just wondering why you behave so childish. Your original question is irrelevant here, you dont understand basic geometry, you dont understand basic reality. Providing detailed explanation of globe model will not get us far if you cant grasp basic things about basic observable facts which prove that earth is a globe.
"what are your angles of incident and refraction where are your calculations ?"
Damn... You still trying to understand rocket science while failing on basic math...
Lets try it simple, like really simple and lets see if you can handle anything more complex. If earth was flat, should perceived sun size change throw day? If earth was flat, should perceived sun movement speed change throw day? If earth was flat, should perceived sun movement across sky should be circular? If earth was flat, can sun ever hide under horizon?
4 really basic questions from geometry, lets see if you can handle those and then lets see if your answer matches reality and what we should observe if earth was flat.
Good luck.
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@petercat4481
"You are loosing your scientism religion"
Damn, its like you cant even think of better insult than repeating same one for the 10th time in a row... C'mon, use your brain and imagination, you can think of something better which would not be nonsensical statement by itself. I believe in you!
"Just provide a link to a model that can be reviewed to explain why we can see Mercury up to 22.5 degrees after sunset"
Don't care, earth is still a globe even if you could see Mercury 24/7
"or show you workings out with Mathematics "
To whom? Definitely not to you, as you have no idea how that thing works. So who else?
"Whilst these are difficult concepts for you even though you claim such models exist if you cannot do the above "
Riiiiight, says some one who cant even understand basic geometry which proves that earth is a globe independent if you can see mercury 24/7 or not... Riiiiiiiight, its me who have difficulties understanding...
"Go home get yourself a nice warm glass of milk tuck yourself back in to you delusional dream world and go back to sleep poppet"
Well atleast this insult is some what better than first one, so congrats on that, couple more weeks of this talking and you might even make one which could actually insult me.
Now i just wondering if you are a troll or just some one who cant even read. How do you explain sun matching 100% globe model and mismatching 100% flat one? No need to have some model put on internet, no need to use this magical sketchup which is made to create chairs to use in checking if you could see mercury, you can simply do some basic observations by yourself in actual reality. So why even basic sun observation proves that earth is a globe and not flatardia?
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@lagresomadsl
"what is it for you want I believe or not believe?"
Because you vote.
In general, nobody gives a f**k what you believe, but you are part of society, so your beliefs will effect your actions and your actions will effect people around you. So fixing as many issues with your belief as possible will be beneficial not only for you, but for everyone near you.
"If I believe the earth is a flat stationery plane, look up the word plane, how does this change anything in your life?"
If you believe one silly thing then you will be more prone to believe another one. People who starts believing one conspiracy tend to accept bunch of others and then you have one nutcrack screaming on facebook and saying that people should not vaccinate because government lies or some stupid stuff like that. Again, you are part of society, if you lived alone in woods, no one will give a f**k what you believe, but you are not.
"If I believe in science, big bang and pray to the sun, believing we are flying into space on a moving ball, what does this line of thought change in your life?"
No idea why you would pray to sun, but if you would accept actual reality then you would live in actual one and not in fantasy. Having less false beliefs will lead to more correct actions. Do you remember 9/11? People believed in some specific fantasy idea and acted upon it, and what you got? Bunch of dead people. Yes, its extreme example but its on same exact line as belief in flat earth, might be different scale, but basic idea is the same.
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