Comments by "Joe Qi" (@i6power30) on "Technology Connextras" channel.

Keep in mind the lifespan of battery are a alot shorter than solar panels and it will degrade even without maximum usage, more of a function of time then just charging and discharging cycles.
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@ozobken probably even more valuable in PHEV since it can charge battery with gas engine dubbing as a generator
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@robertschnobert9090 running noisy generator in time of disaster will only invite hate and envy. Best to minimize it's use. I'd go with deep cycle AGM batteries and vehicle charging them instead
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@DHClapp Where did you get the multiple decades number? everywhere I looked, it says LiFePO4 battery lasts up to 10 years or 5000 charge cycles.If you are doing load shifting on daily basis, you get 13 years very optimistically. Even if you just use it as backup power, and not charge / discharge frequently, it may get you 15 years best case scenario.
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Putting your faith in Korean product quality is your own fault.
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@jordanhazen7761 Correct. Just remember to turn off main breaker switch when using backup power. If everyone did that, we woudln't need the damn transfer switch and expensive secondary panel.
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@FishFind3000 I thought about that too. But do you really want to run generator continuously? Especially when you are sleeping? I couldn't sleep with that much noise, and also will attract attention from neighbours and other people without power potentially wanting to break in and steal your generator. A portable car battery hooked up to inverter to power furnace blower motor while you are sleeping is much better solution. I would keep a couple of deep cycle SLA batteries for power backup, then charge it up in car (or generator during the day).
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I'm detecting a theme on this channel to encourage electrification. But there is no replacement for real fire when it comes to BBQ.
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A much elegant and resilient solution is to keep a couple of deep cycle SLA batteries and an inverter to power blower motor of furnance. Then charge these batteries in a car or better yet 200W solar panels during the day time. Then you don't have to worry about the entire grid shutdown scenario. All of these can be gotten for less than $1000 (two 100 AH batteries, 1000W inverter, and 200W solar panels). Sounds expensive, but much cheaper than an EV with 120V outlet option. EV chargers won't work if entire grid shuts down for extended time.
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@DHClapp id like to see evidence of that especially they haven't been around for that long, how can you predict how long they will last?
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@FishFind3000 you don't need a noisy generator to keep the house warm. Read my post about using a cheap car battery hooked up an inverter to furnace blower motor
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@tom-sn4gd a generator can last 30 years plus. Solar panel 35 years with only 20% degradation. Batteries are the weakest link in the whole energy food chain.
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@lorc yeah but if power outage is a rare event and generator is not heavily used it can last 30-40 years if properly maintained. A sitting idle battery will degrade even if not used
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@Bigolg1975 it will also degrade with time.. The chemistry inside battery is fluid and will degrade slowly even without much usage
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@pilotavery lithium battery hasn't even been around that long. 40 year lifespan is not proven. Even if it turns out to be true, better and cheaper batteries will be on market way before then and your current state of art lithium battery will depreciate way faster than a generator which usually holds value well over long term. My position is that if you need to backup power for the entire house, a portable generator makes more financial sense than battery pack. $1000 generator will have enough power for 7-8kw and maybe depreciate 50% at most over 15 years. A 10kwh battery pack will cost $20k with inverter and installation and will depreciate 90% after 15 years.
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@s.i.m.c.a it's not the same. Generator ages more on running hours, battery ages on calendar regardless of usage
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@BrandEver117 I think they have to do that given how easily bolt EVs catch fire.
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@johnburr9463 Very true. Inverters also have short lifespan. They usually burn out every 10 - 12 years. Costing $4-5k just replace them for solar panel owners.
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@nc3826 we are talking about how to survive disaster situation of prolonged blackout. Efficiency and clean energy are only secondary consideration to robustness and reliability.
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@synapticburn no actually 300 amps
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@dwarftoad well it varies from car to car. Most PHEV will charge the 12v battery as long as car is turn on not necessarily ICE engine, just ready to drive position, the traction battery should be charging the 12v battery
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@synapticburn I was speaking of alternator specs. Not sure what car engine will actually make 300 amps. Maximum amperage of typical auto alternator is 300
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You shouldn't have to buy an EV just for power backup. That's very financially inefficient. Just get a couple of deep cycle SLA batteries for $500 tops, that will sustain your furnace and critical appliances for a day or so, then you can recharge these batteries in your car - gas or EV. You also need inverter and battery charger. I think it's a more elegant solution as well since you don't have to run extension cord that long especially if your car is parked far from where you need the power.
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@wzDH106 the same legislation should apply to ICE vehicles too. Essentially every ice car has a gas generator in it. Why take up space to store another generator if you already have one in the car?
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@wzDH106 Surely most people know not to idle their fuel burning cars inside closed garage. As for efficiency, we are talking about once in 5 year if not 10 year large scale power outage, survival is more important, I could care less about efficiency at that point. it's only going to be short time period hopefully.
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@wzDH106 Sure your battery storage solution is beautiful and safe. But at what cost? Especially in a rapidly improving technological era, your expensive battery + inverter system will depreciate like there is no tomorrow, if you will ever get to use it in an emergency situation at all is a question given how rarely long lasting blackouts are. But if you have money to throw around and need to buy a peace of mind be my guest, but don't criticize others who are more financially frugal about being less efficient etc. We are more financially efficient, maybe you are more energy efficient but financially wasteful.
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@wzDH106 curious how much was your 5kwh LFP batteries? Everywhere I look LFP batteries are twice that of deep cycle AGM batteries. If you are just using it for backup power 99% time it sits idle doing nothing I can't justify spending thousands $$$ on it. $500-1000 is my limit
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@wzDH106 Thanks. You maybe right. However, I was leaning towards SLA batteries due to its easy maintenance. All you have to do is to keep it topped up. Whereas Lithium based batteries need to be charged / discharged regularly to keep healthy. Also there are deep cycle marine and AGM batteries that can be deep discharged / charged 80%+ up to 1000 cycles that's more than enough for emergency usage. Granted, that LFP batteries are superior if you use it on regular basis it will last a lot longer than SLA batteries even deep cycle ones. But I don't plan on using it often, maybe not at all unless power goes out for a long time. Plus the easy of maintenance of SLA and not having to worry about leaving it outside to charge in winter is a bonus. During power outage in winter, I plan to charge the batteries with generator or in a car outside in the cold.
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@wzDH106 I also see that battery technology improving fast pace and prices may keep coming down. So why spend premium on high end battery now. Just buy some cheap sla batteries if you only use it as backup. Wait for cheaper and better batteries come to market in a few years
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I don't get it. Why use fuel based lanttern when there are rechargeable battery lantterns for less money and more reliable?
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You didn't mention that long range EVs are heavier than PHEV that consumes more wh per mile then PHEV in ev mode. So depending on how you use it, long range EV could be more polluting then PHEV
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Don't forget you also need to replace the costly inverter every 10 years
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Are you sure about that? If power on the grid goes out you can't use your own solar power during the day? Or do you mean you just at night?
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It's not just matter of efficiency but also resilience and redundancy. Grid is too fragile. Any natural disasters or cyber hacking can shut down entire grid. Distributed solar generation at home level makes it more resilient even if it costs a little more.
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For sure metering is not sustainable. Imagine you just paid for solar panels then your utility company cancels net metering. You just lost money
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@mewoozy2 My thinking is that once it's reduced to 75% after 5000 deep cycles, it will go down rapidly, like to 50% within a couple years, then to almost zero in next 3 years. IBut what you are saying is it will just keep going forever in ever slow decline for 20 - 30 years or more? I'd like to see your source for that.. By then, better battery technology will come hopefully.
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@pilotavery 50 years? I think this figure maybe related to EV battery usage where most of battery is not cycled on daily basis - think a 200 - 300 mile range car, the daily driving range being around 50 miles or less. That way the battery can last a long time. But if you are shifting load at home with say 10kwh battery pack, you could be cycling through 80+% of that battery pack every day. Then it'll dramatically reduce its lifespan. Any savings you get from load shifting will be offset by battery decay in this case.
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@Imaboss8ball I haven't seen any lithium battery last more than 15 years. After the initial 20% decline in the first 10 years or so, the decline becomes more rapid and will completely stop working in a couple years it varies from bettery to battery. We have data from this on many personal electronic devices.
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@this_time_imperfect just get a $300 deep cycle battery that's going to power your furnace for a night then recharge it next day with car or portable solar panel
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@dogbreath6974 again it's not the mileage that degrade battery. Unlikely ice engines. Battery has no moving parts. It degrades with time regardless of mileage driven
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@pilotavery battery not used will degrade due to chemical composition.
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@pilotavery lithium battery is also chemical battery. Chemical compounds degrade over time it's a fact.. it's not a magic black box that holds electricity forever and ever
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@pilotavery I'd like to see your source
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@benjaminbridger7771 yeah of course.. But even without charge discharging, the chemical solution inside the battery degrade with time just on its own. Unlike mechanical system such as generator.
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@Zhiroc Sounds like you are pretty well off guy. To have a automatic standby generator, it would cost around $20k installed. If you have that kind of money, you should replace it with solar panels and battery bank. quiet and reliable. completely offgrid.
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@Zhiroc yeah that makes sense. The generator runs on natural gas I assume? If it runs on gasoline or diesel you'd have to consider not easy to get fuel in times of wide scale power outage as most gas stations will be also be closed or queued up a mile long
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@benjaminbridger7771 yes of course I agree if you already have an EV then might as well make use of its battery pack. However most of EV manufacturers don't do this because the cost of inverter is a couple thousand and not everyone wants it. I guess they can make it an option but then it complicates the manufacturing process . I was just comparing generator to a dedicated battery bank for home power backup. The latter is magnitude more expensive and even if you do load shifting on tou scheme you still wouldn't recover the cost not even close. Yeah maintaining a generator is a pain.
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@eDoc2020 you should write to EV manufacturers hopefully they will listen
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