Comments by "whyamimrpink78" (@whyamimrpink78) on "POLL: Record 62% Of Americans Have Positive View Of Medicare For All" video.
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LaseRamon, I do not know your personal financial situation. I admitted that some people will save money. Bernie's plan is a 4% payroll tax increase. Say you make $80,000 a year. That is $3200 a year you have to pay in taxes. Bernie plan would only cover half of what medicare for all would cost.
In a debate against Cruz a guy from Denmark pushed Bernie into a corner and made him admit that he would have to raise taxes on everyone. That includes sales taxes and income taxes. The US has around 30% of its GDP that is taxed. Those Nordic countries tax around 45% with Denmark going over 50%. So Bernie would have to raise the tax rate by 15%. So say you are earning $80,000. A 15% increase on your taxes would be $12,000 a year.
However, Bernie wants a progressive tax. So if you earn less than $37,000 you will not see a significant tax increase. Everyone else will. That $37,000 is a little less than the median. So over half of the country will see a significant tax increase of over 15%.
Around 55% of people have some of their healthcare paid for by their employer. For me they pay for all of it. So I would go from paying $0 to something in healthcare just by that tax increase. Even if an employer only pays for part of it the employers will stop paying for healthcare so those individuals would end up paying more. On average workers pay around $4300 a year in premiums. Just out of the increase in the payroll tax alone has someone who earns $80,000 a year paying $3200 in taxes. Now add in consumption taxes, higher income taxes, etc., the value becomes higher.
We are also not including quality of healthcare, or the fact that Bernie wants to increase the payroll tax on employers by 7% which will mean lower wages. Businesses can avoid payroll taxes by paying lower wages. Lower wages means lower payroll thus lower taxes.
In the end it would cost the majority more. Maybe not your individually, but the majority it will.
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mezzaninex, I never said the UK's system is worse than the US. If I did then please quote me in saying that.
Next, I do not deny the facts. The reality is that just regurgitating facts is only part of the issue. Being able to analysis them logically and understand what the mean under different conditions is important. Compare it to the progress in education and specifically Bloom's Taxonomy. At the very bottom you learn basic facts, as you move up you learn how to analyze them, then you have synthesis which is applying the facts you learn to other elements, and then evaluating which is arguing your opinion based on different ideas and criteria. In education at the very basic level in kindergarten you learn "site words". As you move up you learn how to create sentences, then how to make paragraphs, how to write essays and so one. Or in my field, science. You learn, say the atom. The parts of it as in the neutrons, protons and electrons. Then you learn about their functions and role in the atom, then you eventually go up to there being an entire book called the "Physics of the Atom" that is a college text book. And after college you do your own research if you go to grad school.
This is not to be rude but you are near the bottom on this issue. You are just presenting two data points, cost and infant mortality. I explained to you why cost is so high and how it is not all bad. In infant mortality I explained to you the factors beyond healthcare that influence those numbers. I take those facts and go deeper. You are at an elementary school level of thought and I am at an undergrad college level of thought here.
This is why you are replying back say that I "lost the argument". You have no argument. You are still on the playground and you are taking your ball and going home.
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Phillip Evans, saying my arguments are "wrong" is not an argument in itself.
To start, people do die for "elective" care in Australia like they do in other countries. If they don't die they become worse off due to longer wait times. I believe I cited a paper that did a study in New Zealand about that where that paper referenced another study from Canada on that issue. Something like a knee injury may not be "life threatening" to an outsider, but to the person who has it that injury could very well greatly influence their life. If I need knee surgery I want it quickly so I can rehab and get back to work and to my activities and be productive. I do not want the government saying "we feel it isn't life threatening so you have to wait". To me it is my life. The longer you wait to fix those issues the worse they become and the mental repercussions start to build as well.
That is a problem with calling those types of care "elective". To an outsider they are elective, but for the person involved they aren't. Also, you just agreed with me that every country lacks resources, so people do die because of that. According to the Australian Institute of Health and Welfare over 7000 people died or were not contactable a year since 2012 while being on waiting list that were classified as "elective" surgery. So what you are saying is wrong.
The WHO's ranking is arbitrary. To start, it is valid to compare the US and Australia to a country like Malta? Next, what are their methods? Everyone who points me to that source never read the methods nor can understand them. They just blindly follow it as it supports their confirmation bias. Finally, that ranking is arbitrary because anyone can do a legit analysis and create any ranking they want. For example, two professors showed that if you remove car accidents and murder the US is number 1 in life expectancy. For infant mortality being obese increases the chance for pre-term births where pre-term births increases the chance for infant mortality. The US has a high obesity rate. You can weigh that in as well. The US is number 1 in cancer survival rate, that is never considered. The US is number 1 in R&D. There are so many ways to look at the data. You should read the book "How to Lie with Statistics".
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Phillip Evans, your character attack is when you asked if I like being wrong all the time. That aside, on that report it is listed as "elective" surgery. That 7000 deaths can be from numerous "elective" surgery. I question if they are "elective" when people die. They seem pretty important to me.
I will be fair, many do die from more than just the ailment they are waiting to cure. But you have to be 100% honest, some die due to the ailment they are waiting to get cure. The term "elective surgery" is very broad when you read it. One is "unlikely to deteriorate quickly" which is hard to determine unless you get it looked at to begin with. One case in the UK was a girl with headaches. It was considered to be migraines so an MRI was delayed for months and ended up being a tumor where she died.
As for people getting the private option, only the rich can afford that, at least in the US. In comparison 90% of students in K-12 attend public schools. Why? Because the middle class cannot afford higher taxes plus the tuition for a private option. They cannot afford to pay twice for education.
The WHO has valuable material, but that ranking was criticized so much that they have not created another one in almost 20 years. Again, is it valid to compare the US and Australia to Malta, or Iceland? We have football stadiums in the US that can hold the entire population of Malta with room to spare.
What motivation does that WHO have to lie? Recognition. The WHO has always favored universal healthcare systems. They are an organization that has very little oversight. Why do they exist? Who created them? Who runs the WHO? I agree that some of their information is valuable, but their information is just one piece of a complex situation.
As for the two professors I referenced, no one paid them. Their book is free online. One is from Texas A&M and the other worked for the University of Iowa. The book is called "The Business of Health".
But again, what were the WHO methods in creating that ranking? If you cannot explain than you are just blindly following a source to support your firmly held, religious like belief in healthcare.
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GoinSupaOnEm, it isn't that simple. Just because the government decides to cover everyone does not mean you increase the supply of healthcare. Also, you saying "common sense" is not an argument as there are strong arguments against what you said.
More mental health treat: The issue is, besides lack of mental healthcare providers, is the fact that mental health is a very challenging issue to tackle. There is little quantitative data on mental health. It isn't like diabetes where you can take blood sugar readings. It is very personal and there is a culture stigma on people with mental health. Many relate mental health with those who are homeless or can't keep a job where many have a high enough intellect and thus a high baseline and can manage but still have mental health.
Americans get treatment: Again, lack of resources. However, the US has high obesity rates. A major problem in the US is that we simply refuse to take care of ourselves. As Bill Maher told Michael Moore, we eat shit. We poison ourselves. We see this especially with the poor. It does not require healthcare to know how to eat healthy.
Businesses: The reason why businesses pay for healthcare to begin with is because of the payroll tax. A government tax created the employer based healthcare situation. Businesses would rather pay with a higher wage as it is much easier than paying with healthcare benefits but they don't.
For most the tax increases will not save money. The very poor might, but for most the taxes would be higher.
Insurance companies do have a lot of power, I agree. However, the reason why is because of many government regulations that killed the free market in healthcare. Also, the government can deny you care as we have seen in other nations.
Healthcare is not that simple, it never will be.
Just because other countries have universal healthcare does not mean it is the best system. They have many shortcomings as well.
Bernie's plan is asinine. He will push for an increase in the payroll tax meaning that employers will pay lower wages. If they paid a higher wage they will have to pay a higher tax.
Your "counter argument" you gave shows you have little desire to actually listen to the other side so most likely you will ignore my comment.
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GoinSupaOnEm,
There is no "common sense" here as there is a debate to begin with. I feel that the phrase "common sense" is used by people to pull wool over others' eyes. Or it is a degrading term as if you are saying "if you don't agree with me you are clearly stupid". And I saw that at the end of your comment.
Mental health is complicated and a lot of people who need it usually do not pursue it until it is too late because of the stigma and the fact you cannot quantitatively measure it.
Ever thought we are rich due to us not having universal healthcare? Also, lack of resources means lack of doctors, medicine, equipment, etc. We have a waiting list for organs. This is why other countries ration care. Read the paper
"The Ethics and Reality of Rationing in Medicine" in Chest by Leslie P. Scheunemann and Douglas White.
Yes we eat shit. Other countries don't. For example, over 40% of our food dollar is spent eating out where in the UK it is around 20%. That is a reason why universal healthcare "works" in other countries, they simply have healthier lifestyle choices.
We don't have to gut social welfare programs, we can reform them and give power to the states. States can manage these programs better as they can factor in cost of living, inflation at the state level, contributions of charities, etc. At times the federal government tries to account for those factors, but it is difficult. If we ran those social welfare programs like Social Security locally then we can save money. There is value in having those programs, but government has to manage money correctly as well.
When Bernie was pushed in a corner by a guy from Denmark Bernie admitted he would have to raise taxes on everyone.
For regulations read the Mises Institute article "How Government Regulations Made Healthcare So Expensive".
To me the main one is the payroll tax and how paying with insurance is tax free for employers. Because of that insurance has become a form of payment thus healthcare insurance has become healthcare. People do not shop around for their own plans and use insurance strictly for insurance. Most rely on their employer for insurance and thus it becomes healthcare. They cannot force insurance companies and providers to compete thus prices go up. In the end we do not have a free market in healthcare.
The problem with pointing to other countries is that you are ignoring a lot of factors. Denmark for years has had mandatory military. S. Korea has the culture of wanting their kids to be highly educate so they send their kids to private after school programs to simply study where our kids play football and get CTE after school. Norway is a large oil produce to pay for their things. Those Nordic countries have no min. wage and lower corporate taxes where Bernie wants a higher min. wage and higher corporate taxes. You can't just look at one other countries and say "look, it works". It isn't that simply. Their culture and diversity is much different than ours.
I listen to policy. The problem with Bernie is that he is pretty much a joke anymore. He repeats the same things over and over again. He rants about how we need to talk about how "we are the only major country on earth that does not guarantee healthcare as a right". Well, that has been discussed and quickly shot down. Also, that is not a policy discussion statement. It is a statement of wanting to push for universal healthcare. A policy discussion statement would be "we need to discuss about healthcare, the issues surrounding it, and how to improve it". Bernie's remark is simply him wanting to know why we don't have universal healthcare. Well, we can discuss that all we want and never get to how to improve our healthcare situation. He has no desire to keep our current system which is a problem. It is reasons like that and many other why Bernie is a joke to many. It is why Ben Shapiro said that Bernie has no policy substance in his argument.
I can write a whole long comment on Bernie if you want showing how he has no policy substance in his arguments.
I agree with some of your reforms. We need stricter immigration laws. We need term limits on politicians. No need to remove them when they are done after a while. Ending wars is difficult as most of what our military does is actually working towards peace and civility.
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