Comments by "Titanium Rain" (@ChucksSEADnDEAD) on "Real Engineering"
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@DavidRichardson153 "Only the F-35 was having its fleet built as it was being tested" - the F-22, F-14, F-15, F-16, F/A-18, C-17, T-45 and B-1B also had concurrency, aka they entered low rate initial production before initial operational testing and evaluation.
"but every general and admiral in the DOD has connections - often close and sometimes personal - to defense contractors and weapons manufacturers" - you're preaching to the choir. This is external to the F-35 design. Even getting a freaking road built involves government connections to the private sector.
"they aren't marketed as all-purpose fighters" - whaaaaat?
"the Eurofighter and Typhoon planes are not designed or sold as long-range fighters/attackers but as quick response defense craft" - I really don't understand what's being implied here, just like the F-16 was the "low" to the F-15's "high" the F-22 and F-35 are a "high-low" combo.
"Also, citing the F-14D doesn't help you." - good thing I didn't, because I said F-16D. My comment remains unedited if you want to look.
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"Proper, accurate, and effective CAS cannot be done at jet fighter speed" - And yet, it is. The majority of CAS missions are performed by F-16s, F/A-18s, Strike Eagles, B-1s, etc. From 2006 to 2013, the A-10 only got 19% of CAS missions in Afghanistan. By 2014, it was only flying 11% of CAS missions. Seems to me that jet speed has nothing to do with performance.
"You can’t always count on smart or laser guided weapons" - But we can, and we do.
"We can make 1000 of these for the price of how many F-35’s" - You can't because Fairchild went out of business. Can't make new ones.
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@DavidRichardson153 that doesn't really "explain" anything away. If there's USAF A-10s available, why are carrier borne aircraft being called in? On the other hand, even if the Navy lacks other attack aircraft it still doesn't undermine the fact that the F/A-18 is taking A-10 missions. It proves it is capable. The Harrier was showing its age by Desert Storm? The A-10 was showing its age by Desert Storm! 6 of them got brought down. Almost 30 years ago we realized that the A-10 was treading dangerous waters.
"In urban areas, the F-16 needs more room to maneuver around to line up its weapons" - what?
"the F-16 usually uses missiles, rockets, or bombs, which also have explosive radii - not good for collateral damage control" - the A-10's payload is essentially bombs, missiles and rockets. It's main weapon in 1991 was the AGM-62 Maverick.
"The A-10 has a much smaller turning radius" - the F-35 can turn very tight https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaHlWow6Yc4
"something no supersonic fighter can do." - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELo1NRMHuR8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5amEQpxHSSc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoVGz9xai1M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beNOyZHVjEg at this point I'm gonna have to ask, who the hell has been telling you these things that are demonstrably false?
"only the A-10's cannon actually fires one of the (currently) best anti-armor shell: a depleted-uranium core." - which is not used due to the bad optics in spreading an aerosol of depleted uranium dust. Amazing how you bring up collateral damage and then ignore the massive heavy metal poisoning of civilians that lead to the discontinuation of the DU round. It leads to birth defects.
"The A-10 is not going away anytime soon" - it's already receiving less and less CAS missions. The USAF will begrudgingly keep it in inventory, but is not going to ask it to do much.
"their radar systems' signals can give them away to SEAD" - my dude, what do you think allows AAA to track and accurately hit fast moving jets? Radar.
"but once their radars are switched on, they might as well light a flare above them." - same as AAA
"Replacing the A-10 with the F-35, though, is incredibly foolish." - it's like you're not willing to listen, it's already been replaced for the most part. What you're saying is foolish already happened 5 years ago.
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@DavidRichardson153 "Has the F-35 already been doing what the A-10 can do?" - not even the A-10 has been doing what the A-10 can do. Comparable multirole fighters have taken over the A-10's job. It only stands to reason an even better multirole fighter is gonna do it even better.
"Do you not know that the F-35 was promised to be in full service by 2010" - most operational milestones were achieved by 2013. Compared to the clusterfuck that is military aircraft development that was pretty acceptable.
"it couldn't even fly in adverse weather because its avionics would shut down and restart as lightning and thunder went around it?" - do you keep track of how often other aircraft have to be grounded because of issues? Just this year 75% of C-130s had to be grounded. The B-1B also had to be grounded due to parachute issues. T-6 trainers were grounded due to hypoxia and the same happened to 28 A-10s. In 2014 86 F-16Ds had to be grounded.
Not to point fingers at others, but Germany can't even maintain the minimum training standards because most of the Eurofighters are grounded.
"Its entire development process has been a scam" - every government program is a scam. That has fuck-all to do with the aircraft design.
"The DOD would have to pay Lockheed for every single one of these fixes." - lol that's the government for you.
"Name another plane that has had a development process like this" - considering that aircraft development used to straight up KILL pilots in the old days, and that a lot of the problems of the F-35 stem from the fact that it's inherently more complex, I'd say the F-105 and F-111 were proportionally just as bad as the F-35. Mind that the Eurofighter has also been in a politically-generated boondoggle as well.
"they're even looking to just expand the F-22 into the attack role as well" - who's "they"? The F-22 isn't as good as air to ground and nobody is going to rebuild the manufacturing line. It's gonna be a 220 million per plane job to reactivate the F-22 program. You can expand it into the attack role but that doesn't mitigate the fact that the US eventually will need to replace the aging F-15 and F-16 and there's not enough F-22s for the job.
"The F-35 just screams of being a massive scam" - if any other aircraft procurement was put under the microscope like the F-35 it would sound like a scam. Not only are we living in the information age which means you can't get as much details on the issues other older planes had, we're also living in a world of clickbait and deliberate propaganda. Let's not forget that some of the F-35's biggest critics are tabloids and outlets like Russia Today.
"Sounds good in theory for building trust between allies, but it allowed Lockheed to use other nations' economies to pressure the US to keep the contract going." - Again, mind that the Eurofighter Typhoon did the same thing - fuselage is built in Germany, one wing is built in Britain and the other in Italy. I wouldn't say it allowed Lockheed to use other nations to pressure the US, because the US got the most subcontractors working on the F-35. It's simply a jobs program so that on a multinational project one nation doesn't get all the money.
"I am not going to see the F-35 as anything other than a scam, so if it's going to be serving on the frontlines, it better be a miracle plane," - everyone who flew it says that it is.
Who says that it isn't? Russian state-ran media, lunatics like Pierre Sprey, """journalists""" (which as we all know are extremely reliable) and people who never flew it.
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@jonbbaca5580 "But we have several very successful jet fighter designs we could keep manufacturing" - It's more expensive. A new F-16 contract is upwards of 100 million per plane because of all the bells and whistles you have to buy just to keep it a strong "4.5 gen" aircraft. If you don't buy all the avionics upgrades and pods you're limited.
"I just still haven't seen the need or payoff" - It murders everything in the air, rookie pilots wiped out experienced F-15 and F-16 pilots at Red Flag. They can't see it until it's too late. The pilot has unprecedented situational awareness. And it will do the job of multiple aircraft. The need? Retiring older aircraft. The payoff? Having the privilege of enjoying near total air superiority until something better comes along. And I'm not holding my breath for the Su-57.
"wouldn't it have been smarter to spread that money around and develop several cheaper, purpose built designs" - No. Everyone's multirole now. It makes very little sense to deal with the logistical nightmares of the past. For example, the F-117 that got shot down by Serbians only had missiles fired at it because there was no EW or SEAD support. It took at least 3 types of planes to do a job. Only one went in, so the SAM crews felt confident in firing missiles without reprisal. In the Package Q Strike during Desert Storm this was also apparent, as by the time the F-15Cs and F-16s approached the target the F-4s had to leave due to low fuel, leaving the attack aircraft and escorts with no SEAD support. When the attack was finished and the F-16s were turning back, they had MiG-29s coming for them. At that point the F-16s had no F-15C cover. Fortunately the Iraqi MiGs fled once they met resistance from the F-16s, but this shows the problem. You have three different aircraft with different fuel tanks, different fuel consumption rates and different weapons load and you have to coordinate their flights to make sure they're all on target for the entire duration of the attack. If instead of multirole F-16s, single-role attack aircraft were carrying the bombs, they might have been unable to face the MiGs head on and got shot down.
"Just seems like a money pit at this point" - Every government program is a money pit. When it comes to aircraft I just turn off my brain and enjoy. I can't be mad at everything.
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@The Legacy
"the F-4 was designed without an internal gun, as it was thought that subsonic dogfighting would be impossible" - No. The F-4 Phantom was designed for fleet defense. The way to do it is to go FAST, meet the threat head on and fire missiles at beyond visual range. If you had to come around and circle for a guns solution, you've already allowed the enemy to fire anti-ship missiles. Against the carrier you needed to land back on. The gun was dead weight for this purpose.
"basically had the helpless F-4's dead-to-rights" - Because due to gaps in radar coverage, F-4s accompanying strike packages were vulnerable to MiGs coming around the border and doing high speed passes in ambushes that could not be reversed because the F-4s were flying slower to keep up with the strike aircraft. F-4s that participated in MIGCAP missions and went around looking for enemies had a satisfactory kill ratio. The Navy F-4s, which were not in a position to get ambushed and had radar coverage provided by the ships behind them, also had no issue going toe to toe with the MiGs.
"at extreme risk of the F-35's weaknesses in dogfighting" - Pilots compare it to the F/A-18. There's footage of a pilot fighting Su-30s with the Hornet in training exercises and he did well.
"the F-35 will be a flying target, forcing the F-15 (and the vastly superior F-22 [...] to take over" - This makes no sense. The F-15 and F-22 are air superiority platforms. They're the expensive, overpowered, premier air to air platform. The F-35 is the cheap companion multirole that fills the gap left by the fact that there's not enough F-15s or F-22s to handle everything else.
"ever since the F-22 was adapted to carry air-to-ground weapons, there is really no reason why the F-35 is needed at all" - This is completely incorrect. The F-22 has very limited ground attack capabilities. The F-35 is needed to fill all the gaps.
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@محمد-م5ث1ش No, I didn't want to talk about Palestine, and no I didn't want to make the invasion legal. You're the one who brought it up. Well, the world had just come off a world war. Europe was destroyed, taking with it a large amount of industrial production capabilities. Palestine was British territory at the time. You really think people in Europe wanted to start a war over Israel?
It's not the same situation as Ukraine. Ukraine is Ukraine. Palestine was Britain. Ukraine was invaded militarily. Britain ceded territory for the UN to create Israel. You're reaching here.
I didn't support Assad. My point is that Assad asked Russia for support. How are we helping Assad? If anything, the attempt to topple Assad made things worse. The West armed and trained the FSA and "moderate rebels". The moderate rebels turned out to be ISIS. The West created a massive terror organization trying to topple Assad. That's how poorly things went.
The Soviet Union was not a single country. It was an alliance of countries. You know the European Union? Also a union. That doesn't mean that France belongs to Germany. The UK voted to leave. Yes, I'm not denying that Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union, but that doesn't mean that they couldn't ask to leave. And they did. The Soviet Union did not own Ukraine, so Ukraine doesn't belong to Putin, and Putin isn't the Soviet Union. It's over. It's been 30 years. The peace agreement between Russia and Ukraine only said that Ukraine would give up its nukes and if invaded, Russia pledged to use the UN security council to help. Well, Russia invaded Ukraine and has veto power in the UN security council. Ukraine didn't break any rules. Russia did. Stop trying to invent rules after the fact.
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@asdf3568 Funny, so Yanukovych can use politicized persecution of his opposition, stifle free speech, etc. but as soon as the tide turns he can't handle the heat of politics in a corrupt Eastern country. The man could have personally shot someone at the square and you people would still simp for him.
The subject was not changed. Russian aggression is Russian aggression. Oh, radars. Oh, manipulated audio. I guess that undoes the criminal culpability?
You might now know, but that's because you're willfully ignorant. The West didn't have to do anything, the cover-up was just sloppy enough that the timeline of events could be pieced back together, and separatists posted on social media that they had shot down a plane that day. Was that also manipulated by the SBU?
The airspace was not closed because as usual, airline companies thought that flying over 30k feet would be safe as military aircraft typically do not use that space. Airliners flew over wars before this. Russian backed separatists (or even Russian troops on "vacation") shoot a missile at a civilian airliner, and you still put the blame on Ukraine. You people will literally blame Ukraine for everything. It just doesn't stop, it's just bias. And the sooner you recognize it, the better.
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