Comments by "" (@krollpeter) on "Dr. John Campbell"
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@grumpyrabbit1934 This precisely is my entire point, actually.
The first - by then still mystery - infection cases were reported by beginning of December. By end of Dec several doctors exchanged information about it on Wechat. They have been reprimanded by the police.
That means by end of December the problem should have been taken serious at 100 % level. By then it was a problem only. They said Dr. Li is not a virus specialist, only an eye doctor. Why would he not know about viruses? Are Chinas doctors idiots? Does the police know better about viruses?
Your government did everything to suppress the information until 23. January factually. They still let 5 million people go, 70 % of them stayed inside Hubei. About 18 % travelled to other places inside China, mainly Shenzhen, Beijing and Shanghai, which are now clusters. And 12 % travelled outside China, mainly Singapore, Japan, and Thailand. Which is now a health crisis.
Please, I do not want you to be feeling bad, it is not your fault. But this was handled wrongly right from the start. I also do not want a discussion about racism or blame. These are the facts. Facts are being displayed differently internally in China ... well this is not the first time.
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@aylbdrmadison1051 They did not immediately build hospitals, they did not immediately do other things.
What they did is, they suppressed the bad news from the beginning of November, some eben think from the mid of October after the Golden Week, judging from satellite images.
Wearing masks was not common for Chinese citizens. Yes I saw that occasionally, but that was far from common. Most wore them against pollution. Of course surgical masks do nothing against polluted air. But who in China would think that far?
And what did they do with protesters? Locked into their house and bolted the front door close, or put them into a wooden box, just like dogs.
Oh, and then call these barracks hospitals, actually more or less detentions camps so there would be no more pictures of dying people on the roadside or in front of the lobbies of real hospitals.
And now, bye Wumai.
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@Dermahon13 Sweden has not done any better than other countries, and not worse either. That with the herd immunity is a myths, it is mathematically impossible to get herd immunity in 6 months. You are asking for article links, but if it is written somewhere on the internet it's more worth than I said?
However here is an article from last month, it talks about 15 % herd immunity for Sweden. https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200813/swedens-no-lockdown-policy-didnt-achieve-herd-immunity
Now one months later I read somewhere it's about 20 %, but only around the Stockholm area.
Instead of using one single country as a prove for weird theories, look at all these countries such Taiwan, Hong Kong, New Zealand, Singapore, Vietnam, Thailand with their strict measures, and all of them fare comparable so much better. Just now in exactly this video you were given the opportunity to see the data of the Melbourne area and how draconian measures protected the rest of the country. But you keep on pulling out one single country and that's for your a prove of a tin foil hat theory. The problem with people like you, selectively chosing articles and stuff that confirm your believes, not acquiring knowledge.
You can't expect others to fill your lack of knowledge, you have to do that yourself. In particular in the last 6 - 8 weeks there are so many flat earthers and tin foil head theorists around. I connect this post also with the call to Dr. Campbell and others to take this finally serious now, and not continue ignoring this very serious problem.
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Felipe Murillo Indeed, it is worth taking a closer look at Sweden's strategy. It is however wrong that they didn't do anything, as what some believe. Protecting the weak and vulnerable but at the same time accepting a certain risk for the young and healthy is not unreasonable to me. I do however believe the Swedish strategy does not fit everyone.
I do strongly oppose Dr. Campbell's position on what he calls euthanasia in Sweden. Euthanasia is the intentional ending of somebody's life to relieve pain and suffering. They did that in this cases where they believed that the person had not much life in front of him anyway, because of other serious sicknesses for example, and treating a heavy virus infection would not do anything for the patient anyway. One can criticise this, but I would be more careful doing so.
My father (87 yo) says to us, his family: "If it gets me let me die. I don't want to be in a hospital bed suffering this for weeks and connected to oxygen, and then later my lungs do not work anymore well, or such". Would you respect his wishes?
The UK and the USA are two countries where for too long nothing had been done, and then what was done was too weak, too little, and wrong. How about calling that murder? Just now at this very moment the numbers in Britain are soaring, but their response is weak.
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@Dermahon13 That was months ago, when they followed the WHO-BS, just like many others. Forget about that, they changed the approach since long.
Under your definition how you look at Sweden, then Singapore should have herd immunity, too. I mean you can't just take these numbers for a definition of herd immunity.
There is one point that Singapore did right from the beginning. And this is they did not put 50 % of Covid patients into ICU's and then ventilated most of them. That's what they did in the US, for example. They isolated them, and then relied much more on self-healing, only support the immune system and give the medical care that is needed. That's what Thailand also does. Look at their numbers. Singapore health system is state driven, they want to keep things reasonable, and cost low.
A doctor visit here cost in between USD 15 - 50 per consultation, second consultation for the same cause is free. Not like in the US, you only open the door and the cash register rings already "USD 150". Just explaining the diff.
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wildcatter63 which is why many scientist are shocked the WHO does not oppose them.
In Singapore it was - on a smaller scale - like this still until the end of the 80'. You could find snakes, bats, pangolins, and other animals on wet market, things which the west would not have the slightest idea to take for a dinner, and which I don't want to mention here.
The government imposed restrictions. But even after there the restrictions, there were still for a while some wild animals sold, but they dried them up. According to people's talking there were still some restaurant around in the early 2000 years, from which you could ask the "house menu" on they sold dog meat, monkey and such. It took more than 20 years for the government to end this.
What I want to say is, it's very hard for Chinese to drop these things. There are still wet markets in Singapore, they are operated in a safe way, generally. I do not think that would be possible in China.
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The R value for Germany is 0.57, source is Robert Koch institute from 06 June 2020. The number of active cases in Germany is 6300 people (at 84 million population). From all bigger western countries Germany presents the by far best results.
By litres of alcohol consumed per capita, Germany and the UK are both at 11.6 liters on average. There is nothing remarkable about the German alcohol consumption except stating it is generally too high, as in many western countries. Alcohol is a big problem in far too many countries.
I believe it is really necessary to take more and closer looks at positive examples, countries such as New Zealand, Australia, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Malaysia, Thailand, Finland, Germany, Austria, Iceland, and others. It makes no sense to always bring up the countries that have failed.
And lastly, who believes any figures from China? Not me. I only need to have a look at the tables by John Hopkins to get a good laugh.
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@iggle6448 I heard about cases in the US, too. People were sent home to take a rest, instead of treatment.
If China had responded appropriately and only 2 - 3 weeks before they did, the entire Pandemie could have been contained in Wuhan very easily.* To me at that point of time it was not important where it originates from ... they should have done everything to contain it early, not keep quiet as long as possible to avoid loosing face.
Instead, they still held a mass banquette in Wuhan on 14. of January with 140,000 people enjoying the food, to celebrate their Lunar New Year. One week later and one day before the official "Houston, we have a problem", on Monday 20 of January they still let 5000 people travel to other countries, 12,000 on the weekend before, mainly to Singapore, Japan, Thailand.
* the Wumaos will usually tell you on the internet, China reacted right after genetic structure of the virus was know, which took ONLY one week, and they can not risk early alarms to avoid mass panic. Official government fake news.
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Big Deeper look at these pictures from the party kids, or demonstrators, or the holiday-ers, etc, and the accompanying current world statistics, we have the prove that people are unable to be responsible.
Swedes trust eachother, their government, and they do not suspect a secret plan or a deep state behind each new rule.
Their entire model is not suitable for the UK or the US, as people there are much more selfish, and also the Swedish model is widely seen as communist. Which is nonsense of course, but here we are.
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@andyb5216 There is somewhere a video that shows the results of a study using hamsters (yep they get sick). The original aim was to find out about the efficiency of wearing a simple mask with regards to the wearer and the receiver. They managed to get a rough idea from that. Dr. Campbell did talk about it.
Another unexpected result that later came out, after more data analysis was done, they found that higher virus load leads to more serious infections. And: Those who got infected did receive a lower virus load though the mask, which then often could be handled by the immune system, which then results in a symptom free course of the infection. They can't put accurate numbers to it, but the effect is proven.
I m just answering this one question of yours, because you were specifically asking this "how do they know". It explains why countries with early masking rules had low death rates from the beginning. Examples are Taiwan, Thailand, Vietnam, Singapore. Other countries with a high number of anti-maskers have bad numbers. The UK is probably one of them. Too late, to weak, to less pro-active.
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Vitamin D seems effective, but it is to cheap to raise any interest. There are other drugs that we suspect can have a positive effect in certain cases. However, we do not get to hear much about them, because they cost cents only per dose.
All these cheap medicines seems being ignored. Someone can not earn from it, a handful of multinational oligopolistic pharma companies. And someone else, a world aid organization, is helping this someone. That's how it appears.
Our approach must change completely. With every product and every service offered companies need to look first how does it help humans, how does it help the world to improve, how does it really improve our lives and help the planet. Leaders and governments must come up with policies that help mankind, and enforce them. Afterwards, as the second step we can think about the profit.
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@Brigid Singapore has first listened to the WHO as so many others. The government followed their recommendations closely ("probably not transmissible in between humans", "no need to wear masks, they probably do more harm than good", "there is no reason not to travel to China", and many more very funny things, I am not that forgetful).
After they came to senses, Singapore's measures showed quickly positive effects. Now there are few cases every week, most of them imported. Community spread is tackled very well.
Government has followed Taiwan's strategies, the most successful country in fighting that shxt, probably.
End the WHO, take their leaders in responsibility for what happend.
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Finland, Denmark, Germany, Greece, Poland, Norway, Austria ... just some examples for European countries which have done well so far, and there are several more. Can we please reduce mentioning always the bad examples?
Overall the US, Brazil, Russia, and the UK are on the high end of bad numbers. These are all countries where the leaders seem to have their own, parallel realities and "alternative" facts. This crisis quite well reveals the countries with bad governance.
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Thailand had from the first days a very different approach. They started "Mask up, people!" when the WHO still said to the world "The mask may do more harm then be useful". The Thais followed the rule to almost 100 %.
The government made people switch off air-cons in public buildings, public transport, etc, and asked everyone to open the windows instead.
They prepared disinfection solution and made it available for everyone for free. Every shopping mall has several stations. Even the Thai company I work for prepared hundreds of Liters, and gave it away to people for free. Hygiene.
They treated patients in Thai hospitals with Remdesivir, the few they did get after all these measures. While the WHO was still busy proving that Remdesvir does not work.
Just look at the Thai stats. The OP is absolutely right. Similar applies for Vietnam. Strong measures, early on. Malaysia fared so much better than most western countries. Hong Kong, Taiwan, all the similar good.
And then come these anti-maskers, anti-hoaxers, Bill Gates want to own the world believers, and other tin foil hat wearers, and say: "I don't believe any statistics from Asien countries.
The entire thing is a lie and masks are useless. I only believe stats from Western countries".
The later might contain more lies than a grandma had counted in her life-time.
Could it simply be that they have more common sense than we? Could it simply be that these countries know their big neighbour to the North much better than we do?
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@annoyedaussie3942 Thanks for your detailed explanations.
The quarantine and strictness of Covid measures in Europe generally is a far cry away from what you do in Aussieland, except may be France and Italy.
Ironically, in these other countries with the loosest measures are the most vocal people protesting against masking, quarantine and physical distance.
Even in my own German family who had (and has) almost no restrictions (compared) they sigh as if their life had been amputated.
And lastly, if we look at the figures, exactly the countries with most "Anti-Mask" and "Anti-Hoaxer" and "Bill Gates is a Murder" demonstrations, they have the worst crisis from all countries. The UK, France, the USA, Brazil are examples. Columbia and Peru are in a horrible shape, but nobody talks about them. The USA is giving the picture of a 3. world nation.
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We expect the death rate to stay low, because most infections are U50.
More and more are anti-hoaxers, anti-maskers, Deep State worshippers, and tin foil heat wearers. These are the ones who think they have eaten wisdom with big spoons, they flout the rules.
I warned about them a month ago, here, several times. Nobody listened, Now they are here, too, with their brain salad.
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Peter Mortensen
I am by no means an expert. So this is my opinion only.
To my personal opinion the way that Sweden went is something to consider, a mix in between the Swedish model and stricter, more conventional measures. That would depend how an area is affected.
There is a certain number, then you are left with no choice but drastically separating people. Probably the capacities of the health systems are a suitable benchmark. I believe this is what Germany does. The other extreme is what Italy and France needed to do last spring, completely separating all people. Could be Czechia has reached that level now, some parts in the UK, most parts in Spain soon, and France, too.
And keep in mind we have only October! The Winter hasn't even come. Whatever it takes, but prevent that lockdown at all cost! Don't fight masks, do not have private parties, but do not fear if your child has to go to school.
BTW. One of the first problems I personally had from the beginning is calling physical distancing social distancing. Which idiot came up with this idea? We may need to keep physical distance in between us, but not social distance. Call your friends and ask what they do, how they are, care for your parents, send you ex-lover a greeting card, go on your balcony and play a nice piece on the trumpet for your neighbours, if you can. Whatever.
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