Comments by "" (@BobSmith-dk8nw) on "HMS Renown - Guide 031 (Human Voice)" video.

@rutabagasteu That's not true. It's not like they had an easy time of it - but their reputation was worse than they deserved. Their real problem was poor tactics on the part of their pilots for fighting Zeros and being heavily outnumbered. In any case - they were certainly better than nothing - and were more than good enough to do some serious damage to the bombers the Japanese were using against these two ships. .
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@deeznoots6241 The Choice seems to have been between Halifax and Churchill. Chamberlain wanted Halifax but Halifax didn't want the job and there might not have been support for him in Parliament. Thus - the GREAT thing about Churchill - was that he kept the UK in the war when Halifax wouldn't have. So - don't belittle those speeches. Yes, Winston was a pain in the ass about a lot of things and didn't know half as much as he thought he did - but - he kept the UK in the war and that was a MONUMENTAL contribution to ultimate victory. .
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@deeznoots6241 Tactically - sending Force Z was ... not a good idea. It was two Capital Ships in the face of all of Japan's Navy. They were clearly not enough to protect British Interests. Anyone - including Churchill could see that. So - why did he send them? He sent them to send a message to the Japanese - that the days of the Chamberlain Government's Appeasement (as with the Burma Road) - were over. He sent them to let the Japanese KNOW that the UK WOULD fight them if they attacked. This is the same reason the Americans sent their battle fleet to Pearl Harbor from San Diego. Now - both these strategic moves by the US & UK - failed to deter the Japanese. They either had to pull back in China, to get the US to restore oil exports to them - or - run out of oil. The Japanese KNEW that going to war with the US & UK was tantamount to committing national suicide - BEFORE - the war started. They KNEW that. Yet - they chose national destruction over backing down to a colonial power - which in their eyes - was a slippery slope to becoming a colony. Committing these military forces strategically - was all that Roosevelt and Churchill could do - to try and dissuade the Japanese from doing something that both they and the Japanese KNEW would lead to Japan's destruction. It was all they could do - but it failed - and a lot more people died in that war than aboard those Capital Ships that were lost. So - these American and British Capital Ships were lost off Malaya and at Pearl Harbor - for Strategic Political Reasons. To paraphrase von K - war is politics by other means. How do you measure the loss of these ships and the men that were killed against the CHANCE that it might cause Japan to back down? That's one of the problems with being a President or Prime Minister. You get to make decisions like that - and people die because of them. .
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Well ... there were elements of both factors. There were people who claimed that no Battleship underway had ever been sunk by aircraft but there were also people who did recognize that things had changed. You should also remember that these ships actually did really well in defending themselves - it's just that the Japanese had over 40 aircraft. If the Japanese had had fewer aircraft they might have gotten away. These two capital ships were NOT just sent off without any attempts to provide them with air cover. First off they were supposed to have an aircraft carrier with them when they went to Singapore - but - it ran aground. Then - they were supposed to coordinate with the RAF at Singapore to provide air cover and that got fouled up. So, what I would say, was that the people involved in the decision making of the day - DID realize that things had changed - but - they didn't take that change seriously enough. It could have been decided to NOT send the surface ships unless they could come up with a Carrier to provide them with air cover - and - they COULD have made damn sure that the plans to provide them with land based air cover were better carried out. The trouble with that last is that it never seemed to work that well. The land based air was always to far away and communications were never good enough, that, and there wasn't enough time between the realization that they were under air attack and the time at which land based air could have gotten there. The only way to do that - would be to dilute your air cover by sending in small numbers to constantly patrol above the ships they were protecting and the coordination of something like that - wasn't something the people involved had ever really practiced a lot. The other factor in the losses suffered by the Western Allies was that ... they were in Japan's back yard and it could bring to bear the full weight of it's Armed Forces on whatever they had there. If the only criteria were the preservation of human life - then all the Westerners should have been evacuated. A lot of dependents, women and children - were - evacuated but politics was a factor here. If they had just evacuated EVERYONE that would have assured that there would have been an attack on their holdings. By keeping a military force there - they hoped to send a message that they WOULD fight and hence the Japanese should know better than to attack them - as ultimately the Western Powers DID have the strength to not only defeat Japan - but to destroy it. On the one hand - there were Japanese who DID know that and tried to prevent the war but there were others who felt that they had no choice but to attack - unless - they wanted to become yet another Western Colony. So - they did. .
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Prince of Wales and Repulse were supposed to have a carrier with them - but it ran aground ... didn't make the trip and wasn't replaced. So - the ships were dependent on Land Based Air - and that just never seems to work - does it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Indomitable_(92) .
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@ironmantooltime A few things. The Repulse and Prince of Wales were supposed to have an aircraft carrier with them - but it ran aground ... They were supposed to have air cover from the RAF but ... that never really works ... Here - though - all the battleships that had been sunk by aircraft - had been at anchor - so they still didn't know that aircraft could sink fully alert, maneuvering battleships. The other thing was there - was that the Japanese had like 40 aircraft. The original plan for Gallipoli wasn't that bad and might have worked. They were going to have the Army land at the top of the Peninsula, then the Navy would use battleships they were already going to scrap to force the straits. The idea - was that if they could put a battleship a hundred yards off the coast of the Turkish Capitol - it might surrender. But - the Army didn't want to do it. So the Navy tried to force the straits by themselves - but - the mine sweepers they had had been civilian boats before hand that still had their civilian crews. The moment they took fire - the mine sweepers fled. The Navy was making arrangements to crew the mine sweepers with Navy crews - but - then the Army got pressured into participating. At that point - the Navy's plan - which could have worked with Navy Personnel in the mine sweepers (none of their crews had been killed) was abandoned to support the Army. The Problem was - that those nice beaches at the top of the Peninsula were now heavily guarded - so - the Army elected to land at the bottom of the Peninsula - and fight their way up it ... And we all know how that worked out ... The odd thing here - is that the Navy Plan - still could have worked. Churchill DID have a lot of squirrely ideas but people were able to talk him out of most of them (which is more than can be said for Hitler). .
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