Comments by "Ōkami-san" (@mweibleii) on "Thom Hartmann Program" channel.

  1. BramSLI1 Care to name some so-called 'Free-Markets'? They certainly do not exist anywhere in the USA where 30% of the occupations require a licence and the other 70% are heavily regulated. And where the regulation is the most, the markets are the most crony and corrupt, as an example see Finance (has the most regulations by number) and Health Services (runs neck and neck with Finance and may take #1 position depending on the year). In the USA where selling raw milk, that humans have drank for 1 million years, is illegal but selling Pink Slime made of ground snout, hooves, skin, teeth, ears and tail mixed with wood pulp, died pink is 'Regulated' as safe to eat 'food'. As of now, the ONLY place we see semi-free markets is the Internet, and it's probably the best place for someone to attempt to start a business and get anywhere in life. All the other markets are so hyper-regulated that I wouldn't waste my time bothering with them unless you have a very highly in demand skill and/or the money to buy off politicians / Regulators / Law-Makers in your favor.  So, again, please name this time and place where these FREE markets exist. It certainly isn't in the USA for the last 115 years. 
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  2. +BramSLI1 You're kidding me? "Robber Barons"? THAT is your argument? A few Americans got rich in America during the late 1800s...therefor it's a FACT that Free-Markets (which is to say free people) can never work for all of human history ever. Just what sort of crapping are they teaching you at your Business School? Not much by the looks of it. If you think a Political Slogan is an argument then think again. And if think having a business degree makes any difference then look up Appeal To Authority fallacy to find out different. So? Why don't you list 5 of these so-called Robber Barons and explain exactly who they robbed, why they weren't jailed for robbery, and what they did that was so wrong to make you think Free-Markets can therefor NEVER work for all of time.
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  3. Rusty Mckee Are you or Bram over here going to provide an example of a so-called Robber Barron or not? And I'd like to know who they robbed and how. Surely you can list a few names given these titans of history, prove free-markets (which is to say free people) can NEVER exist ever - in all of human history, ever. Merely their historical presence in the 1800s is evidence enough to prove free markets can never exist, even in the year 2500.  Have you ever heard of cherry picking? When you look through the past and find something that fits with your cognitive biases and then convince yourself that this is evidence for something more than it is. Where there rich industrialists in the USA, in the 1800s? Yes, so what? That's not evidence that free-markets do not work. Talk about hyperbole and making a mountain out of a mole hill.
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  4. RE: Robber Barrons. So, let's clearly state the argument. In the 1800s a few Americans got lucky and capitalized on the second industrial revolution and got rich providing other Americans with goods and services. Like electricity, radios, trains, planes and automobiles. Okay, so their crime was they GASP got rich. Now, let's compare that 'Crime' of the GASP Robber Barron's against today's HYPER REGULATED MARKETS. You know, the ones where you need a licence to cut god damn hair, to legally marry someone, to sell alcohol, to drive a cab and in some states to sell arranged flowers. You know, where selling raw milk will send you to prison but selling FDA Regulated Pink Slime is A-Okay. The one where the State makes our currency by fiat and then charges us an income tax to use it - forcing us to us it. THIS ONE. Let's see now. HAS 100 years of REGULATION WORKED for us? The richer are even RICHER!!! They'd make those Robber Barron's blush they're so god damn rich. The mansions of a Robber Barron wouldn't house the cleaning staff for these rich f$ckers. AND get this, 2015 was a RECORD BREAKING year for number of regulations - how's it working out??? Why don't YOU apply YOUR same god damn logic? If you didn't think free-markets worked in the 1800s because a few guys got rich, well that isn't shit compared to what the Regulated-Markets and the State have done in the last 100. Korean War ring a bell? How about napalm set alight and dropped on children over Vietnam? How about the phony war on terror that has killed a million children in Iraq? NSA wire tapping? And you have the god damn GALL to sit over their and whine about a few fat rich old industrialists over 100 years ago!? Give me a f*cking break.You are clueless. No wonder Sanders wins the likes of you over to his side, all he has to do is off you Moar Free. Because, at the end of the day, that's really all it is for people like you. You sit there and say Robber Barrons 'proves' free-markets can NEVER EVER work while Regulated Markets have literally destroyed entire civilizations. 100s of million of humans have died due to State regulations. Oh, but but but, Robber Barron's got rich. The Ford Family was rich. The Rockefeller's made some money. Jesus H Christ, what load of crap are they teaching at Universities now-a-days. Not like I'd know, I'm only a doctor, but hey, you have an undergraduate in business. While I was doing Physical Chemistry you were probably playing cards and watching TV. And, if you made it this far, I'll end on this note. LOOK UP the word Argument, because you don't appear to have a clue what that word means. I'll clue you in, there's two big families, deductive and inductive, try not confusing them next time you attempt to make one. Good Day
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  5. Heads Tails A bunch of crony crooks that work in the Regulated Markets? What of them? We do NOT live in a free-market society. We live in a very very VERY top down State regulated society. Finance and healthcare are by far the most regulated, and (not) coincidentally, the most broken. This is an objective fact, you can look up the total number of regulations and count them yourself. 
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  6. Heads Tails You listed crony capitalists of the 20th century. Robber Barron's refers to Industrialists of the 1800s. Two totally different groups of people. Do I think removing regulations that protect crony capitalists and provide regulatory-capture for rent-seekers by replacing them basic common LAWS that protect property right and contract? Yes, that's correct. As an example: FDA regulates ground pig snout, hooves, skin, tail, anus, hair, boiled in ammonia, mixed with filler (wood pulp) and dyed pink as FOOD and raw milk as POISON. You understand how insane this is? Today, thanks to regulatory capture (primarily Rx) by the AMA, we have the largest population of non-violent humans in prison (Drug War) AND at the same time a heroin epidemic! Oh, and medicine is now the most expensive its ever been - due to AMA enforced limitations on supply side of the curve. Oh, and to boot, Government Regulated Medicine now has Medical Error as  the #2 reason you will die in the USA. How's that for 'Regulations'? You do understand out Regulators BAILED OUT the criminal bankers and then fed them trillion MORE in money. And that doesn't even begin to mention the MIC. You'd literally have to be insane to think Government Regulated markets are in ANYWAY better than free-markets, lawful markets. Notice I said LAWFUL. We were NOT an anarchy in the 1800s and we would not be one if we had free-markets. Yes, some people got rich - so what? No where near as rich as the crony crooks of today's hyper-regulated markets. 
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  7. Rusty Mckee The only person who doesn't live in the real world is you Statists. Here's some facts: In 2015 the US Government passed the most regulations ON RECORD. The US Government has invaded numerous countries and killed millions of innocent people and is doing so again, today, over phony made up reasons. They did it in Vietnam and did it again in Iraq (WMD). The US Government is the largest polluter in history. The US Government consumes the most energy in the world. The US Government imprisons the most non-violent humans in all of history. We imprison MORE total humans than China, and China has 1.3 billion people AND is Communist. So, again, it is YOU people that do not live in the real world. A few more FACTS you can look up. The two most regulated markets by number of regulations written are finance and healthcare. Oh, and geee, which are the two most broken markets? Finance, which is in the process of destroying society, and healthcare, which is now the number #2 reason you will die in the USA, Medical Error - feel free to look up that Stats. In addition, I have lived in 5 different countries. And by lived, I mean, LIVED. Not visited, not attended school at, but lived in. Some in the West, some in the East. The problems we face are due to Governments - ALL Governments. How do I know? Because they arise in Government that do not have Congressmen and POTUS and they arise in societies where there are no Koch Brothers to blame.
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  8. BramSLI1 We need a Bernie Sanders. Jesus H Christ we Americans have become so f#cking pathetic. You remind me of an Iranian I knew who said, The Ayatollah is trying his best it's just bla bla blah. Seriously, you sound like her. Or a Chinese I knew who just knew Dear Leader was trying his best - if only he had some help from blah blah blah....  News Flash, thanks to the DoED regulated Government Schools 1 in 5 (20%) of Americans graduate from high school FUNCTIONALLY ILLITERATE. You do understand that electing Bernie Sanders will do NOTHING to change this. His wife is part of that problem by the way, and she has done NOTHING to fix it. How do we know? Again, look up the DoED own stats on functional illiteracy rates. If anything he'll make it worse. You do understand that Government regulated healthcare is f&cked. More regulations are not going to fix it. Take a look at Government run welfare ghettos - you think Sanders is going to magically fix State sponsored generational dependency?? The Government created the problem and you want it to now fix it?! Are you insane. You Statists are no different from Theists. Seriously, the only difference is you worship the State. Instead of Bishops you praise your Senators. Instead of the Pope you pray to the POTUS. Yes, let's hope Sanders is elected, maybe he can fulfill his promise to turn the USA into that Democratic Socialistist Progressive Utopia Sweden he's always crapping on about. The quicker Progressive Socialists sink this economy, the quicker those of us who will fix things ourselves can to work. So, yes, vote Sanders.  It should be noted, if you go to Sanders website, most of his list (pretty much every item) is MOAR FREE. Free free free.... how pathetic. It seems to get elected in the USA today, all you need to do is promise free stuff. What you will NOT see on his website is ending Teachers Unions, make it easier for common people to access Private Schools, ending the AMA, or anything else that might change things over the long run. The problems we face will require at least 3 decades to fix, just to give you a clue as to the magnitude of the problems. 
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  9. Heads Tails Except you haven't made a counter argument. You've literally confused 20th century crony capitalists with 19th century robber barrons. I'll tell you what, type in the words 'Material Implication', into Google Images, see all those funny squiggles? THOSE are HOW proper arguments are formulated. Any of them look familiar to you? No? Oh, well you can thank the DoED regulated Government Schooling for that. Had you attended a Private School run by people who actually get paid to TEACH you might understand what an argument is and why you're not making one. Oh, and what's Sanders solution? More money to Teachers Union. Seriously, look up his platform. What a joke. 
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  10. +Rusty Mckee The last 30 years have decimated the middle class the massive government expansion and regulations. As well as seen the erosion of many public institutions, as exampled by the 20% functional illiteracy rate of Government School graduates, loss of civil liberties and loss of privacy. Medical Error rose from 85K in 1990 to 450K in 2010. That aside, labeling is not an argument, it's sophistry. My family isn't white, I'm an atgeiy, pro-gay rights, and against the drug war. You on the other hand are nothing but more of the same, you're the Conservative. You just call it progressivism. Essentially, you are an authoritarian Statist.
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  11. +Heads Tails The argument made was that because "Robber Barrons" existed in the 1800s (at a time correlated with small Government and relatively Free-Markets) that because a few Industrialists GASP got rich, therefor free markets have been "proven" they cannot ever exist - ever. They don't "work". All I did was apply this reasoning to the last 110 years of Government Regulated Markets. The rich are richer than ever. Much much richer than Robber Barons, therefor Regulated Markets are a bigger failure. Thus universalizing the conclusion shows free markets work better.
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  12. +Rusty Mckee LOL One more time, you're not making an argument. You are blabbering. Look up Propositional Logic, deductible arguments versus Inductive. You go right ahead and vote Bernie, Hillary, Trump. It's not going to change the fact that Government School graduate functional illiterates at a rate of 1 in 5. Innumeracy is even higher (go ahead and Google that term if you can't read it). Paying Government Teachers more or less isn't going to change this fact. Medical Error will continue to rise and cost more and some services will become scarce. The financial system isn't going to work for you in your Magic Land of magic thinking. Sorry, but those are the facts.
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  13. +Rusty Mckee The Government has near total control over education, spends nearly 100 billion a different year, and after 12 years still produces functionally illiterate graduates at a rate of 1 in 5. And these are the people who bother to graduate. Tens of thousands just quite wasting their time. Ever hear the idiom: "Good enough for Government work"? That phrase is over a century old in the USA. The fact is, Government has been, is still, and will always be crap quality. You Progressives seem to believe the government just needs to tax the "rich". Why? Taxation doesn't increase goods and services. That requires productive investment. Not to mention the Government has NO problem raising capital. It already blows through over a TRILLION dollars a year. You literally live in Magic Land. For example, you qualify democracy with "strong". A) This is meaningless. Strong is only used to qualify cogent and requires statistical analysis. It's like you just threw the word in because it sounded good. B) We live in a Republic not a democracy because history shows democracies do not work C) I have no idea why you think Democracy (strong or otherwise) is going to be more productive than other forms of government. Unless you're suggesting freedom is important / free trade.
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  14. +Rusty Mckee The Government has near total control over education, spends nearly 100 billion a different year, and after 12 years still produces functionally illiterate graduates at a rate of 1 in 5. And these are the people who bother to graduate. Tens of thousands just quite wasting their time. Ever hear the idiom: "Good enough for Government work"? That phrase is over a century old in the USA. The fact is, Government has been, is still, and will always be crap quality. You Progressives seem to believe the government just needs to tax the "rich". Why? Taxation doesn't increase goods and services. That requires productive investment. Not to mention the Government has NO problem raising capital. It already blows through over a TRILLION dollars a year. You literally live in Magic Land. For example, you qualify democracy with "strong". A) This is meaningless. Strong is only used to qualify cogent and requires statistical analysis. It's like you just threw the word in because it sounded good. B) We live in a Republic not a democracy because history shows democracies do not work C) I have no idea why you think Democracy (strong or otherwise) is going to be more productive than other forms of government. Unless you're suggesting freedom is important / free trade.
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  15. Rusty Mckee LOL The problems with Education are over 100 years in the making - and took on a whole new meaning in the 1970s with the rise of the Teachers Union and then DoED under Carter The DoED is forced to publish their data and the yearly statistics show (if you believe in facts) education standards have been dropping through ALL administrations, for over 50 years. You suggesting this has anything to do with "Republication Austerity" shows you are a joke. Parroting back when  you are told to believe. The fact is The federal government allocated approximately $154 billion towards education in fiscal year 2015 you turd. The DoED blew though nearly 70 BILLION of it. And guess what? STILL 1 in 5 Government School graduates can barely read and write - and these are the GRADUATES!! My suggestion to you is you vote Sanders and then whine about the GOP or DEMs or LibTards or whomever in 8 years when the economy is in an even bigger mess. Then, when Dear Leader asks you to vote for him, do it. Be the little Sheeple you were bred to be. Wave our flag and vote. That*s what you*re role in our society is. 
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  16. Rusty Mckee One major reason why the private sector is more efficient right now is because they do not have to deal with austerity cuts" HAHAHA.... yeah, because they EARN their money. But, the solution is simple, sell off your Governmental Services TO the Private Sector. See how simple it is? IF what you say is true, and you are providing value for money, then you will continue to do so in the PRIVATE FREE MARKET. It really is THAT simple. If you DO provide a valued service, and maybe you do, then you will continue to do so through making GASP a profit selling said service. It means people in society WANT you to keep doing what you're doing and are willing to pay you to keep doing so. This is why we NEED Privatization - which also means, no need for you to worry about CONgress, because you"ll be working directly for the people you claim to want to serve.  As for your allegation that if schools were private then ONLY the rich would learn - again, you are clueless. The 1910 US Census showed in a Chicago Suburb African Americans had a literacy rate of 85% in 1910. This is without Government Schooling. Why? Because African's THEN valued learning to read and write and wanted to better themselves and the lives of their children. The 2010 census showed this SAME neighborhood, these are the great grandkids kid, THEIR literacy rate was under 50%. Again, you turd, you are wrong. The facts show you are wrong. Government Schooling does NOT work. Unless you call 1 in 5 functional illiteracy "working". You can look up the data for yourself. Unlike in 1910, Africans in 2010 can just get on generational Welfare, there is no NEED to improve. Raising children is tough work, why do that when Progressive Democrats are willing to foot the bill.   Lastly, taxing does NOT increase the supply of good and services you dolt. Taxation only redistributed existing goods and services. As an example, the DoED spends more than the Koch Brothers lifetime earning in a single year and have nothing to show for it. You keep thinking we need more tax money - News Flash Sherlock, the Government raised over a TRILLION dollars this year. The US Government has NO problem raising capital. Jesus, are you completely clueless? The Government has MORE than enough money. One more time, taxation does NOT  increase goods and services, it redistributes those that exist. 
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  17. +Rusty Mckee You seriously need to read a book. Do crashes occur in free markets? Yes, and they self correct quickly. The MASSIVE crashes are caused blin regulated markets. The Great Depression was caused BY the Central Bank. Ben Bernanke himself stated this was the case. It was then prolonged by Government actions. For example, the government paid farmers to burn produce and kill livestock to raise the price of these goods by limited supply, while at the same time American starved. THAT level of insanity only occurs in Regulated Markets. The GFC is another example of failed Government regulations in the market. We live in hyper regulated markets, NOT free markets. Hell, you can't even get married without Government telling you who you can marry. You can't even cut hair without a license.
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  18. +Rusty Mckee American Government School teachers are some of the highest paid in the world you dolt. Japan spends about 1/2 GDP and their graduates run circles around ours (and can reading write). News Flash it doesn't take much money in resources to teach a child to read.
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  19. Free University will be similar to free Government School with its 20% functional illiteracy rate.
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  20. bgregg55 According to a study conducted in late April by the U.S. Department of Education and the National Institute of Literacy, 32 million adults in the U.S. can't read. That's 14 percent of the population. 21 percent of adults in the U.S. read below a 5th grade level, and 19 percent of high school graduates can't read. DoED study found here: http://www.statisticbrain.com/number-of-american-adults-who-cant-read/ 
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  21. +Leonard Freckleton Americans spend about double Japan with less than half the outcome. I can tell you now, Japanese middle schools don't even have 20% functional illiteracy, let alone high school.
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  22. Leonard Freckleton Immigrants account for 13% in total, most of whom can speak some English or speak English as their first language.That said, you're assuming immigrant children read and write at a lower level than native Americans by the time they graduate. In my experience, that is not always the case. Many times they can read and write two languages fluently. The problem is Government Schools unsound structure of 9-5 learning and poor teach to the test pedagogy. "Free" / tax payer paid for Government Universities will simply drop standards to gain more enrollments and make more money. Soon a University degree will be as valuable as a High School degree, which is to say: not much. As it is, University degrees are already becoming less valued. 
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  23. Does Thom realize life was tough and goods were severly rationed during WWII?
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  24. ***** Sure, there are a teeny minority of people who would happily pay a plumber to do brain surgery on them. Yes, the world is full of complete morons and yes I support you/them being free to be that level of stupid - preferably before you/they breed. That's just part of living in a free society. As for the rest of society, namely hospitals and insurance companies, we'll require a certification of competence to tender for brain surgery.  Note: I wonder why electronic companies never hire plumbers to do complex computer coding? Geee, and without any State requirement to only hire people with State certifications somehow GAAASP the free market is able to align goods and services with customers to produce $150 super computers that fit in my pocket. While the current system sees the AMA (a private fraternity) with a near total monopoly (thus quality is low and price is high), in a free-market more certification options (example: DO and others) will drive quality up and price down.  Oh, and by the by, you are indeed free to walk over the magic State line and have surgery elsewhere in the world by people without USA regulated medical background. In many instances for a much lower cost and much higher quality of care. Japan is a good example of this.  One more time, healthcare IS the MOST regulated market in the USSA. It has the most regulations. No other market is more highly regulated than healthcare. And as a result we have extremely crap outcomes (400,000 Americans an KILLED each year due to medical error in our State-regulated medical care) 
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  25. ***** Do you work in the medical field? I do. I can promise you, the millions of regulations are harming healthcare. It's that simple. We need healthcare competition and a lot less regulation. 
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  26. ***** I don't think you understand what logic is. You don't seem to be making a logical argument and your premises are unfounded therefor your conclusions are unsound. As an example, you state the 'clusterfuck' we had prior to Obamacare was due to lack of regulatory enforcement - this is not true, further, the added regulations are NOT making us safer. Empirically, the data shows there were 90,000 deaths due to medical error in 1990 and with the addition of millions of more regulations the deaths due to medical error are now 450,000.  The 'clusterfuck' (as you say) is due to (a) too many regulations (b) AMA monopoly (c) regulatory capture and rent-seeking. Again, you're showing your ignorance, regulation is being used to maintain profits. It's the exact opposite of your presumption (that regulation is to bring down costs). One more time, regulations are there to keep profits high. As an example: cities in the USA are restricted on how many hospitals can be opened. IF it's determined (by people using the system to make money) that a new hospital will impact on the profitability of an existing hospital - then the State will refuse a new hosptial from opening. The same is true of all sorts of medical care. The number of fMRI that can opened in a city is also limited. LIMITED - to maintain profit.  Summary, the reason why medicine costs to much is due to State-enforced regulatory capture by the AMA to maintain it's rent-seeking.  I promise, more regulation, ObamaCare or otherwise, will see that 480,000 dying per year going up to a million. You'll see. Much like you think you understand what 'logic' means, you'll find out you don't - and you also don't understand medicine and how regulations is making it more expensive and more dangerous. The problem is IMO, people like you are allowed to vote. You 'think' you understand something and you think you should have your say. But in reality, you don't really understand anything and having your say with 'your' logic is the very last thing we need as a society. Therefor, limited government and free-markets are the only solutions to people like yourself. It's not that you are intentionally trying to destroy society, it's just what you do. You like to think you know much more than you actually do know and that makes you, when in aggregate, dangerous to the rest of us. 
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  27. ***** Prior to AMA Rx monopoly the USA never had a problem with medical coverage. As a matter of fact, in the early part of the century, the price for medical care was CHEAP - too cheap. So cheap, that the AMA fraternity set about grabbing Rx monopoly and have milked the system ever since. The USA (back when it was a free-market) is itself my example.  Citation here:   How Government Solved the Health Care Crisis  Medical Insurance that Worked — Until Government "Fixed" It  by Roderick T. Long http://www.freenation.org/a/f12l3.html
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  28. 2snoopys I don't watch TV, I do however, train and qualify medical doctors to practice as a member of the AMA. I suggest for now, you watch TV (you pick the channel), listen carefully to what our political leaders/masters/regulators tell you and vote for the one that tells you what you most want to hear. Then complain. Blame the alternate Political Party for why Dear Leader couldn't usher in the Promised Land. Rinse. Repeat.  
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  29. ***** The USA does have a problem with healthcare, and the main problem is Government regulation leading to rent-seeking and regulatory capture. Did a Black man die next to you waiting? Maybe. If you don't think that happens in countries with socialized healthcare you are wrong. Medical Error is horrid in the USA, but it's probably double in AU. I know of a man who had a slight kink in his neck, was advised to have unnecessary surgery, and was killed. It happens all the time. Also, socialized medicine is NOT free. In AU a collegue of mine had knee surgery (routine) and he pays for Private PLUS has Government and the cost was $3750 (so far, that's on top of paying for private healthcare in addition to 'free' healthcare). In Japan, probably the best care I've seen (mainly due to the Japanese competence and high numbers of doctors leading to high competition) our family 'free' healthcare costs $800 a month. So, I really don't think you have much of an idea of how things actually work. You just hear a politician tell you 'free' and you think it means it should be 'free'. That's just not true. What IS true is IF we had a free-market in healthcare we'd have much cheaper and much better healthcare options. Many the likes of which will not be invented for decades to come thanks to over-regulation by Government. Government is the root cause of the problem, it's not going to fix the problems it causes. 
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  30. Thom got trapped in his own illogical thinking.
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  31. ***** What didn't you understand during the caller's interview? Do you want me to transcribe it for you? If one were to apply Thom's argument to other behaviours it's seen for the absurdity it is.  Hence Thom starts babbling about how lack of sleep is 'taxing the body'. LOL Yeah, just like fast food. Sorry Thom, that's a metaphor not a real tax. 
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  32. ***** RE:" .... wanted to shift the tax onto the people consuming the sugary shit, i.e. a fat tax" This is called strawman. The rest of your post is ad hominem. Thus, you're not worth further communication on this thread with.
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  33. "Cheap junk from China" Spoken like a true Progressive. Free trade in goods (including the high quality for price electronics Thom enjoys using to produce his show) has pulled hundreds of millions of humans out of poverty. Free trade did that Thom. Not progressive income taxes. Not the Police State. Not welfare redistribution. Free trade pulled hundreds of millions of humans out of poverty.  All the Progressives have given us are welfare ghettos, generational dependency, a Police State needed to 'redistribute' the scraps and a whinny generation of Americans.
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  34. Joshua J Free trade with Asia has pulled millions of hard working Asians out of poverty and at the same time given millions and millions of Americans higher standards of living by producing electronics cheaply ushering in the internet age. If Asians weren't making smart phones, and they were made here in the USA, they'd cost thousands of dollars and most poor would never afford them. As for why the poor are left with crappy low end jobs. Well, that's pretty easy to answer. Government schools are next to useless. As a matter of fact, the DoED found 1 in 5 American graduates are functionally illiterate. Further, the DoED found the average American reads at the level of a 6th grader. Next, thanks to Progressives like Thom, there's sooooo many millions and millions and millions of regulations making it impossible for poor functionally illiterate Americans to open up their own businesses. Thus, they have only two choices, work at McDonald's et.al. or go on to Government Welfare. Just think, if we didn't have a central bank, and didn't have minimum wage, and a trillion regulations, maybe all those jobs would have stayed in the USA?  The American middle class has spoke, when given the opportunity, they'll buy made in Japan, Hong Kong, China, Taiwan etc... over made in America. The only thing a tariff's do is prevent free Americans from purchasing the items they want. And what they want is made in China.  Notice Japan and Germany are still able to compete. That's something to think about.  Let me ask you this, in the next decade, we'll have 3D printers that put most Chinese out of a job, as we'll be able to produce anything we want in our own homes. Are you going to suggest this is going to make us poorer? Because, a cheap Asian making stuff for next to nothing, is pretty much like a 3D printer.
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  35. yourmomsajedi117 My suggestion to you is to go get out there and vote Sanders. He'll promise to tell you what you want to hear. And, that's what you want after all, to be lied to. If anyone told you the the truth, why, you'll feel insulted - and we can't have that now can we?
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  36. thrisbt1 Voting for anyone who promises to redistribute other people's money for the 'good of society' is a waste of time. What exactly has Bernie Sanders himself done that doesn't involve taking other people's money and spending it? I mean, that's a god damn good gig if you can get it. Has Bernie inventing anything? Discovered anything? Created anything of note other than increased taxes and more paperwork? Has he created any successful businesses?  Or is he a career bullshitter?  Politically, has Bernie taken on the Teacher's Unions? Has he radically tried to change the broken system that is Government schooling? I'm not talking about throwing money at Union officials, I'm talking total reinvent education? Nope, No, and No. Is Vermont reducing regulations to make it easier for the poor to open businesses? Nope. How about reducing income tax? Nope.  Bernie Sanders is successful at one thing, and only one thing - spinning bullshit people want to hear. It generally goes like this: Yes, I agree with you. Yes, you are right. The Government is failing the middle class. Yes, I'm here to take from the rich and give everything and anything you want. Free education? Done. Free healthcare? Done. Free University. Done. Free roads. Free internet. Free free and more free. Oh, and we'll stick it to the rich while we're at it.  As I said before, I'd be happy if Bernie won. 8 years of more failed Progressive bullshit and maybe people might start to get it. Probably not. More than likely we'll have to sink into 3rd world nation status with a banana republic dictator before Americans get that what made America prosperous was a LIMITED government. Maybe we'll move back to Japan. Japanese generally agree on two things: politicians are full of crap and American politicians are a joke. It's also a much freer country in many respects. Progressives don't make much headway in Japan as Asians in general don't buy into airy fairy bullshittery. 
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  37. Joshua J  Free trade with China has benefited much more than the 'corporate elite', it's pulled hundreds of millions of poor working Chinese out of poverty (a poverty caused by central planning I might add. The same sort of central planning that's leading to our lower standard of living). Chinese aren't making us 'poorer' because they're taking our jobs, they're actually propping up our standard of living by offering us extremely high value electronics for next to nothing. Just imagine, a super computer that fits in your pocket, and as soon as a new model comes out, Americans just toss the old super computer into the trash bin.  Corporations probably will move their operations to a cheaper country. And they'd have to. Or they go bankrupt. Not because THEY are greedy, but because Americans want the best of everything and they want it for next to nothing. Blame the middle class American consumer for the need to make everything so cheaply. They COULD have supported made in America, but they don't want to. Free trade simply shows the true face of America. Which is the price we pay for living in a free society. People are free not to buy made in America. Further, many Americans have the entire retirement dependent on stocks. Hundreds of millions of Americans REQUIRE that corporations turn a fat profit and if they don't, the CEO is quickly fired.  I personally make a distinction between making a profit (which is virtuous) and spoils (which is stealing, indirectly or otherwise). If you open a cafe and make a profit (be it a chain or otherwise) and you're competing in a free market, then this means you're providing people with something they want without threatening them in the process. That's virtuous. If you were not making a profit, that'd be a signal to you, people do not want what you are selling - regardless of your good intentions, or ill intent. That's the reason we need profit in a free market. I didn't understand why you said small business need help from the government and then say you support crowd sourcing. Those are mutually exclusive statements. What we need is deregulation to make it fairer to compete. Just look at the Taxi scam as an example. Taxi's are small businesses, but as soon as Uber came along and offered competition, many ran straight to government trying to outlaw this competition - which has happened in some places via 'regulations'. The only viable solution is to eliminate government's role in regulating the markets. It seems to me that you're hung up on 'money' and 'jobs'. You suggest 3D printing is both going to put everyone out of a job AND at the same time bring on the Great Depression? This makes no sense. People do not 'have' to work and money is only a means of transaction. For example, if we have solar energy and 3D printers and recycling centers, then yes, there won't be as many jobs. That's a good thing, it means we can spend more time doing things of leisure. Life therefor is better - and the end goal is no one works at all and there's no need for money. Right now we live in a time when people toss supercomputers in the trash because they don't look nice, so, minus the State starting WWIII, we have a bright future IF we can return to free trade / free societies. 
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  38. thrisbt1 As it stands, there is no one I would vote for.
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  39. liquerinfrnt The story about 'FoxConn labor camps" was made up by a person who had never been to China - ever. He made it up, and then retracted it. http://gizmodo.com/5894297/why-did-mike-daisy-lie-about-foxconn-according-to-mike-daisy The truth is Chinese WANT to work at FoxConn and stand in line for hours at the chance to get an interview. The truth is suicide is higher in comparable corporations in the Progressive USA than in free-market China. Essentially, someone lied to you, feeding in to your cognitive biases, and you believed it. But, it was all a lie. This IS what Politicians do. This IS Thom's business model (and Fox New and MSNBC, ect....). Bernie is just another liar demagogue. You'll see.
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  40. Rusty Mckee Welcome to the end result of Progressive 'Socialism'. Of course we are worked to death - it costs a ton of money to pay for all the governmental 'free' services we are 'entitled' to. Particularly when it comes to the Federal Government bailing out the richest 0.1% crony so-called 'capitalists' that run our country. In a FREE society competition FOR labor ensures wages remain high. I've personally witnessed this. We don't live in a free society. We live in a hyper-regulated society, thus, demand for labor remains low - and will continue to remain low until we admit we have a problem with too much government. Which isn't going to happen. Then there's the trillions and trillions wasted on the Government's wars. Next comes the Federal Register which churns out approximately 80,000 pages of fine print regulations every year. This regulatory order is cumulative. Most of these regulations stay on the books. They are not repealed by the bureaucrats; they are amplified by new rules.These regulations are primarily aimed at protecting market players and locking out competition.  Imagine, today you can be fined for letting your children sell lemon-aid. THAT'S how 'free' the markets are in the USA. While you'd go to jail for selling open BBQ chicken without a licence, your neighbor can open a State 'regulated' tacobell and sell boiled in ammonia pig hooves, tail and bone meal mixed with HFCS, filler and food coloring. You know, because the Government wants to make sure we're "safe". Why are we working to death? The DoED costs nearly $100 BILLION a year. What do we get for our money? Institutionalized 'education' where 1 in 5 graduates are functionally illiterate. They graduate with a degree in uselessness, barely able to read and write, little practical knowledge into hyper-regulated markets where they'd go to prison for selling unlicensed lemon aid. Yes, the corporation of the USA is a huge problem - one the Government perpetuates. And will continue to perpetuate regardless of WHO is elected. Do you think Bernie Sanders is going to do a god damn think to decrease sales at Walmart? No way. Walmart is paying the lion's share of the taxes to the Government - which Bernie thinks is fantastic, because he's going to magically redistribute 'money' and this will someone make all our lives better. Americans are addicted to Government. And, in this case, we'll have to hit rock bottom before MAYBE we'll admit we have a problem and do something about it. I'd say, in another 40 years of so. Give or take a decade or two. 
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  41. Rusty Mckee RE: China outsourcing.  Yes, our low end low skilled jobs are going overseas and they will continue to go overseas. And this is GOOD for the economy. It means Americans don't have to waste their time going to work performing low skilled jobs. It's no different than when tractors replaces farm hands. In the 1800s around 85% of Americans worked in fields on farms. Now it's less than 3%. And just like today, nutty people back then (Luddites) attacked the tractors because it was 'putting people out of a job'. But guess what? That's a GOOD thing. As we move forward, more and more jobs will be lost to Asia. Also, of those that are left, many will be automated. Finally, with 3D printers, many more will be lost too. This is GOOD for society. 
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  42. Rusty Mckee RE: Walmart Yes, I totally agree that giving some companies unfair advantage is wrong. You can thank the Progressive socialists for this. I want a FREE market. They don't. They want the State to regulate everything from who can sell lemon aid to who can cut hair. When Progressives aren't trying to licence any and ever occupation, they'll passing billions and billions of regulations into law. It's now illegal to sell raw milk! THAT'S how "free" we are. We can't even buy milk.  Well, Walmart is the end result. Lastly, if you want the price of labor to go up, then you need the supply labor hours to go down. This is econ 101. The only way to reduce labor is to get more people to open more businesses - which means LESS regulation, LESS licencing and MORE free markets. Pretty much everything Progressive Socialists hate. I'd also add in to this, we need to eliminate Government schools and bring in actual pedagogy that teaches something useful. Other than how to take an MCQ test. 
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  43. Rusty Mckee So you'd prefer to let millions of Chinese children starve to death? Is that your solution? No one in the USA is starving to death. Americans are, in reality, fat. 80% of Americans have air conditioning in their homes. Americans in the bottom 15% live in homes that are larger than the middle class in France. You have a distorted view of what's real. The jobs ARE going overseas. There is no stopping that. Just as tractors replaced low skilled labor, Chinese are replacing low skilled Americans. One day 3D printers will replace Chinese. And our standard of living is rising. We live in an age where Americans toss away old smart phones like trash because they want a new 'look'. We have access to ultra cheap electronics. People aren't starving in the USA, they're getting fatter. Food is plentiful. Education is nearly free and higher education has guaranteed for anything through State loans and tons of scholarships. We are going to gain access to solar power cells (made in China) that will make our lives even better.  If you have a high level skill, getting a good paying job in the USA isn't that difficult. Engineering, writing computer code, law, medicine, biotech, etc.... if you have a low skill, then you are not getting a high paying job in the USA any longer. Primarily because other Americans do not want to buy your stuff. They prefer made in China. It's that simple. You can try to restrict what other Americans can or cannot buy, but it won't work. They'll vote for the person who is giving them a cheap iPad not a job making a cheap iPad. It's called Democracy.  I personally have only bought 1 thing at Walmart (bag of pretzels). Not that I think they're a bad company, I just don't like their crappy products and their food is low quality. But Walmart makes its money serving the POOR. I've spoken to well connected people who suggest one reason the government gives Walmart subsidies is because Walmart does such a great job feeding the poor. While the Government on the other hand does a wonderful job creating poor. It's sort of a hand in glove relationship. That may or may not be true.  What is true is low skilled manufacturing is going overseas and when it comes back, it'll be in the form of a 3D printer.
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  44. Rusty Mckee  I agree that productivity gains are going to rich - you can blame government education and government regulations for that. The only way the price of labor is going to go up, is when the supply of labor goes down. This is Econ 101. Supply and Demand.  Government schools function as labor cog factories. They produce laborers instead of entrepreneurs. This means there's more labor sellers than labor buyers. Regulations make it hard to open a business. This means there's there's less labor buys competing for labor and thus the price of labor goes down. As for the "air I breath" - basic property laws protect me, my health and my property. You are living a delusion is you think regulations are to protect you from a corporation. No. The regulations are to protect corporations from you, in the form of frivolous lawsuits. This is a simple historical fact. If a chemical company pours chemicals into the river and it 'catches on fire' then you can sue the person who owns the company for property damage and a jury can send that rich person to prison for life. Regulations ensure the 'regulated' amount of chemicals can damage you and your property, without fear of being sued. As a matter of fact, once it's legal, you cannot sue.  Was there cases of pollution? Yes. Primarily in the East. Most of the USA was fine. And get this, there's STILL a lot of pollution in the USA. Primarily in government ghettos and inner cities. Farms also pollute the land and water. Only now there's nothing we can do about it, other than hope a "Regulator" passes a regulation - which it does, to protect the company's interest (see Monsanto as an example). 
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  45. Rusty Mckee Before free trade it's estimated that more Chinese starved to death (Great Leap Forward) than died in WWII. Over 30 million. That's not counting the 100s of millions who lived in abject poverty.  I don't disagree that Chinese can decrease their currency - this isn't the free market at work. This is the Progressive Central Banking regulated monetary system at work. Progressive Socialists gave us the Central Banking system we have today. The one that just bailed out the richest 0.1% under a so-called "Conservative" AND a "Progressive" POTUS.  I'm telling you, I've lived in 4 countries, I work in a high skill area - the ONLY solution is free trade. This is the ONLY solution. And the first place the USA needs free trade is INSIDE the USA. The US is one of the most heavily regulated markets in the world. Secondly, Government schools are horrid, they must be phased out through private education competing for tax money and letting the parents choose the school.  The problems facing the USA are not unfixable, but I don't see Americans fixing them. Primarily because people like Thom and Bernie keep bullshitting the public.  Sound money, limited government, laws that protect property and contract and free trade (which is to say, freedom) - these are the ingredients for a prosperous society. 
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  46. Rusty Mckee Two last points: Again, imagine if we had 3D printers that could make anything and recycle back those items. And imagine if we had cheap solar panels that could be printed when needed. Are you telling me our lives would be worse off? No way, we'd live at a much much higher standard of living. But, imagine the billions of lost jobs. So, jobs isn't the end point. It's a means to an end point.  Second, yes, our monetary system is totally broken. 100% broken. That included the trillion in student loans. I don't know what the answer is. But I know who we can thank for the system we have - Progressives. THEY gave us this system. They also have us labor tax (income tax). They also gave us our horrid public schools. Conservatives are also a mess, they gave us the war on drugs and never ending wars that both profit and support (war on terror). The ONLY lasting solution will be centered on limited government and include sound money, law and free trade. 
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  47. Rusty Mckee RE: Race to the bottom.  This is more demagoguery from the Progressive Left. Our standard of living is higher thanks to free trade. We benefit by having someone else make us cheap electronics and will continue to benefit when 3D printing comes along.  I think I see the miscommunication. You do understand that there wouldn't BE any of those electronic jobs if there weren't a China making the electronics? If there was no China, there's be no Apple, we wouldn't HAVE an iPod or iPhone etc.... none of this would exist. The ONLY reason these items exist is because Chinese made them so uterly cheap that the middle class could afford to buy them. No Chinese and no Apple and no modern internet age. A smart phone made in America would cost $4000 minimum. Great for the rich. Not so great for the middle class. 
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  48. Rusty Mckee Our entire monetary system was designed and implemented and voted into law by Progressives. Most notably Woodrow Wilson, he started the Progressive Party for Christ's sake. You saying there's been 'no Progressive in 35 years' is the "No True Scotsman" fallacy. The fact is Progressive Socialists are ALL we have - they come in two flavors, Fascist Corporatists and Fascists Socialists. Think of it like this, what is "Progressive" one day, is "Conservative" the next. A 100 years ago a Central Bank and taxing people by their Labor-hours was all new and "Progressive". Now it's unthinkable not taxing labour-hours and not having a central bank. It's "Tradition".  As for the worker missing out on the gains in productivity. Like I said before, until Labor is in demand, then the price will continue to fall. You can use the State to force the price of low end labor up, but you can't make people buy it.  Anyway, we can agree the monetary system is completely unfair and no longer functional. I think the way to fix it is to limit government and maximize personal freedom (the entire foundation of our society) and you can think redistributing from one group to another using a Police State is going to fix it (the antithesis to the foundation of the USA). I can promise you, the only thing the Police State is going to do, is work for the highest bidder - which is NOT the middle class or the poor. We can see they did exactly this when they bailed out the richest 0.1% during the GFC.
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  49. marisafari Inflation should NOT be occurring. As we become more productive and can make things cheaper, the prices of these items should drop. Therefor the normal way the worker enjoys 'productivity' gains is by paying less for the items at the store. The reason why we instead have inflation is (a) Central Banks cause inflation by expanding the money supply and (b) the Government NEEDS inflation to pay off it's T-bonds as well as municipals and their gawd awful bonds. In short, the Central Bank and Government work like hand in glove to maintain high inflation - because it benefits THEM. Ask a Central Banker about deflation and they'll blabber on about how we 'need a magical 2% inflation' of no one would buy anything, which is asinine. Electronics have seen prices drop year after year and sell like hotcakes! Anyway, as to your point about labor-hours. Labor-hours are just like anything else. If the supply is high, then the price is low. If the supply is low, then the price is high. To reduce the supply of labor-hours we need more entrepreneurs. But, thanks to 80 years of Progressive regulations and 100 years of Progressive Government Schools - all we have are laborers. Just imagine, in the 1960s America was seen (from the outside) as a country of businessmen. Literally, EVERYONE wanted to open a business. THAT was the norm. Now everyone wants to get a 'good job' or a handout. Very few Americans want to start a business any longer. And I don't blame them. Who would? The better option is to get a 'good job' working for the Government - nice benefits, high pay, job security, holidays off, no weekends, etc... Not the way to a prosperous future. 
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  50. marisafari I didn't say the inflation is only due to QE. The State has had inflation as a goal since going off the gold standard. In a free market (with sound money) as goods are produced more efficiently, the price of the goods become cheaper. This includes labor-hours. Something workers do not like. Which is probably part of the reason why we have inflation. According to Keynes inflation done through the State can lead to deflation of wage, without the wage earner knowing it - and he supported this as a way to reduce labor costs. Anyway, modern day Central Bankers attempt to get to 2% inflation as this benefits them and the State. Why we've had deflation in electronics is the massive productive gains coupled with ultra cheap labor.  As for: Why not let the government provide needed goods and services?. Have you seen what a shitty job government does at providing any good or service?!?! If you think the free market is expensive - try government!! You can expect to pay 4 times as much as you do now, and to get 1/10 the return. Ever see a Government run housing slum? Ever had to wait in line at the DMV? Government schools graduate functional illiterates at a rate of 1 in 5, and at a cost of $250,000 per student!  Think of it like this: If you don't like monopolies, well, you should hate government. It's the ultimate monopoly. 
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