Comments by "vinm300" (@vinm300) on "Let's Talk Religion" channel.

@shd1394 , you are quite right, and when Mehmed II captured Constantinople (1453) gave tax breaks to merchants and settlers, invited scholars in Greek, Latin and Persian, and tried to re-establish a multi-ethnic Roman Empire. The Ottoman Empire then expands to its zenith under Suleiman the Magnificent, the 10th sultan, and the next 25 sultans preside over utter decline. We are talking about the 25 sultans of decline. Just as in Latin America we aren't talking about Spain's success (they dominated Europe for a century), we are looking at the roots of failure. You don't want to confront failure, you just want a snap-shot of success. You'll never comprehend anything with that attitude.
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Let's talk the Enlightenment : rational debate and enquiry. Why lose yourself in superstitious nonsense ?
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@Thatsit36 Good question. I've no idea how I got here; I can only imagine I was looking for the Arab historian Ibn Khaldun.
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@shd1394 , The Venetian ambassador to England ~1570, said, In England they are neither Catholic nor protestant." Elizabeth I forbade parliament from discussing religion. That is how you make progress : by side lining religion, and letting folks decide in private. In the Middle East Islam was always part of the state : making major decisions, and keeping the medieval ways alive.
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Patel Yusuf , thanks for that reply. Ibn Khaldun was encountered in an essay by Hugh Trevor-Roper. When Ataturk abolished the Caliphate, where did the last caliph go ? He headed to Switzerland but couldn't get in as a bigamist......the Swiss relented, but I'm not sure if they allowed him to bring all his wives. Kemal Ataturk said he "feared the people" because Islam had so brainwashed them. and at one stage, in desperation said, "I wish we could convert them all to Christianity". Why did he say that, he was an atheist ? Because Christianity is a veneer and easily shrugged off : Islam penetrates every aspect of life and thoroughly retards the individual making them incapable of rational thought.
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Ali Al-Yunani , A biography by Lord Kinross. Are you suggesting it may be a fake quote ? It is entirely in-keeping with Ataturk's philosophy. He was 100% committed to transforming the Ottomans into a part of Western Civilisation. He despised the Fez. His mother thought the Sultan was "Our Lord on Earth" and Kemal despaired at her ignorance. "The only thing I fear is the Turkish people" he said. He meant the ignorance, and their propensity to back-slide into backwards Ottoman Sultanate ways.
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@shd1394 , Compare Latin America and North America, you will notice a huge difference. That is because North America was built from the bottom - representative assemblies, electing a church council, a town council and a government. Latin America was built from the top : the Catholic Church controlled education, censorship, the postal service, hospitals etc ; and the aristocracy controlled governance, the military etc. One of them was a success and the other a failure. Now take a look at the Caliphate and tell me which one you think it resembles. Was it built from the bottom (with representative assemblies) or from the top (with a despotic sultan and authoritarian Islam). Was it open to innovation, or did it champion medieval tradition ?
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@shd1394 , Anthropologists reckon there have been 10,000 religions invented over the period of Man's evolution. I don't comment on the content of these : I'm simply saying how they perform historically. When Maria Theresa (d.1790) refused to have a science academy because it would spread heresy, it left the Austrians backwards, in comparison to Northern Europe, and Austrian Ministers pointed this out. When Austria expelled the Jesuits the education minister, who had been educated by Jesuits, said "Before they do any more damage to future generations". I'll leave you to draw the comparison with Islam. (Was it wise for the Ulema to ban printing in 1515 ? etc)
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@shd1394 , forgive me for labouring a point :- The Ottomans attempted constitutional government twice : A) 1876 the Europeans forced it on them with the Treaty of Berlin. Abdul Hamid II simply accepted the constitution and parliament then dismissed both to rule as a despot for 33 years. Atuturk's mother said "The Sultan is our Lord on Earth" do you think Islam had anything to do with that ? B) The Young Turks deposed Abdul and the CUP held an election which they rigged and then banned opposition parties. They demanded respect and obedience not opposition and debate. Can you think of a religion which demands respect and obedience, with no debate, would that be Islam ? Catholicism is the same - it never promoted democracy : look at Latin America (which bears a close resemblance to the Middle East).
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@shd1394 , Consider "Paradise Lost" Milton (1667) : the hero is Satan who rebels against the tyranny of God. There is nothing like that in the Islamic world. Anyone daring to write that would be decapitated. Milton is a product of the Enlightenment. Consider Henry VIII placing an English bible in every church (1535). The congregation would sit around debating the scriptures. A century later the Diggers and Levellers would use bible verses to justify their communist beliefs. There is nothing like that in the Muslim world.
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@HaithamAmar-u9o "Islam is the religion with no priesthood, papacy, or central control" What nonsense. What do you think the Ulema is ? The Ulema banned printing in (1515) and condemned the Caliphate to 90% illiteracy. So when the Caliphate collapsed (last Sultan fled by night in a British ambulance in 1922 , the last Caliph fled to Switzerland in 1924), the people were totally ignorant. Palestinians ,for example, had never heard about 'parliament', didn't know what a President was, or an election, or a nation. Whose fault is that ? The Jews held their first election in 1920 (to shadow the British administration). The British installed a Mufti in Jerusalem to give leadership to the Palestinians. How is that "strong individualism " ? When the people are looking to the Mufti for guidance.
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@shd1394 , anthropologists reckon there have been 10,000 religions invented over man's evolution : they are all products of their time (the Old Testament reads like a Bronze Age myth etc), and they all hold progress back. Christianity didn't produce Galileo and Newton : they were individuals using their great intellect. Religion opposed both, and tried to destroy Diderot's encyclopedia. Christianity (especially Jesuits) tried to drag Europe back to the Middle Ages, and Islam succeeded in keeping the Middle East in the Middle Ages.
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@atakansakarya5795 "Some Turkish sources claim he was a devout Muslim. However, according to other sources, Atatürk himself was an agnostic, i.e. non-doctrinaire deist, or even an atheist, who was antireligious and anti-Islamic in general. Sources point out that Atatürk was a religious skeptic and a freethinker." Gordion, you represent 'some Turkish sources'. Most biographers describe Ataturk's dislike of religion.
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@atakansakarya5795 That is an impressive lexicon of Islamic sects you possess. But Ataturk hated religion. He was in a nightclub when he spotted a man wearing a Fez and shouted threatening insults at him - forcing him to remove it. The Hat Law of 1925 is still in place. It is part of the Turkish Penal Code, which continues to include the infamous Article 301. All the evidence points to Ataturk's disdain for religious backwardness. There is no evidence to support his membership of any sect.
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@HaithamAmar-u9o Apropos the Ulema banning printing (1515) :- By contrast, during the Fronde in France (1649) there were 300 printing presses in Paris producing thousands of pamphlets. The pamphlets were filled with news, commentary, comedy (mocking the nobles) and ideas of liberty and justice. The caliphate, even at the end in the 1920s, had nothing like this. The Young Turks were ALL western educated.
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Torsha Samy , It isn't just Islam & Christianity : all religions are invented. Anthropologists reckon there have been 10,000 religions invented during Human Evolution. Each religion reflects the epoch in which it was invented. The Torah (Old Testament) reads like a Bronze Age myth. The Koran is full of medieval superstition. No religious text contains information that was unknown at the time (ie nothing comes from "God"), everything written is simply what was known at the time. There are no revelations from "God".
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@cultureclashmusicvideo4545 , you must be remarkably brainwashed to think there is no oppression in Islam. Take a look at the Taliban, Pakistan, Iran, the Gulf states, or North Africa. All these Islamic countries are oppressive. Islam teaches obedience to authority : it doesn't encourage independent thinking. Christianity was the same : when the English attempted to produce a Bible written in English, John Wycliffe's followers (Lollards ~1400) were tortured and burnt. The Pope began the savage "Counter Reformation" in the 1560s, after Martin Luther had revived John Wycliffe's ideas. Again there was savage authoritarian persecution. The contrast with Islam is that Islam has yet to have a Reformation : Islam is still authoritarian in the medieval tradition. Only in Western countries are Muslims allowed to say they no longer believe. In Islamic countries, an apostate must be killed (according to the Koran).
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