Comments by "Taint ABird" (@taintabird23) on "Scottish independence: How likely is a second referendum? - BBC Newsnight" video.

  1. The break up of the union is necessary for the English to learn to stand on their own two feet.
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  2. Johnson will not grant another referendum as the English are not yet ready for self-rule.
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  3.  @Jack-uy7ie  Well, the Irish admitted they were a nation and shot their way out of the Union more than a century ago. Ireland has been making decisions free of Westminster ever since. Welsh national identity it less developed politically because of the large English population living there, but is on the rise. So that leaves the Scots and English. The Scots seem to be ready for independence in increasing numbers, while the English still need others to depend on them as part of their own identity and simply managed to leave the wrong union.
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  4.  @Jack-uy7ie  Oh I get it now. You think I'm Scottish. Incidentally, the Spanish veto is dependent on the manner of Scottish independence, but you won't read that in The Sun. As for EU , it is likely the Scots will be fast tracked into the bloc as the PR value will be delicious. Remember, Brexiters think the EU can bend the rules for them, so why not the Scots?
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  5.  @Jack-uy7ie  You either did not read my post properly, or did not understand it. I'm married to a Welsh woman, she will be amused by your observation.
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  6. What if the English are not ready to stand on their own two feet? Why should the Scots be held inside the UK just because the English are not ready to be a nation?
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  7.  @gordonmills7798  On the contrary, it has exposed the extent to which England not ready to stand on its own two feet. It is insecure about its place in the world and is going for the hardest Brexit possible, dragging out Scotland and Northern Ireland and attempting to impose Brexit on the Republic of Ireland in order to get the Brexit it wanted. Dublin saw that coming though. When are the English going to grow a pair, admit they are a nation and become an independent country? Why do they need to believe that the EU, Scotland, Ireland, everybody needs them?
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  8.  @Jack-uy7ie  CANZUK is a figment of the Brexiter imagination. Trading EU membership for it is like trading a Ferrari for a fancy push bike. It is a basic rule of economics that we trade more with our neighbours than we do with those far away because it worth more us as it costs less. I'm looking forward to Brexiter exceptionalism turning economics on its head. As a Brexiter, you are deeply ignorant of the EU and have no time for these (nameless) experts - why champion them now? Scotland, as a former member of the EU through the UK, already meets their standards to join. Throw in the fact that Brexiters believe that the EU can be flexible when it suits them but not when they are punishing Brexiters, then I would have thought early accession would be a slam dunk. No need to worry about any Scottish deficit!
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  9.  @gordonmills7798  My opinion is based on evidence and rational deduction. You should try it sometime. It is quite true that everybody in the UK had a vote. However, against a backdrop of a diminishing British Demos across the union, it has left the union deeply divided. It is no accident that the areas of England that voted most for Brexit corelate closely with the areas of England where people in the 2011 census people identity firstly or exclusively as English; the Scots are increasingly divorced from the union and they voted to remain as did Irish nationalists in NI. Even in Wales, were there is a large population of people who identify as English, we can assume there would have been a vote to remain but for the English who brought their politics with them. This whole issue of the democratic deficit of Brexit was been the subject of academic study. The fact is, there is no democratic account for the fact that Scotland and NI voted to remain in an country where the overarching common British identity is rapid retreat. That's the problem with Brexit. There was no need for England to 'force' anybody , the die is already cast. In your country large swathes of your print media are owned by Rupert Murdoch and other right-wing tax exiles. They controlled the narrative of Brexit. And they lied and distorted the issues to an infantilized audience into thinkin that EU membership is akin to being 'governed by the EU'. England is not bad, but it is big when compared to the countries it hides behind. My question is this: when will the English grow a pair, admit they are a nation, stand on their own two feet and leave the right union?
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  10.  @gordonmills7798  'When the English voted for Brexit, I would say that was wanting to stand on their own two feet and get away from the EU dumtit...' No, that was just a hankering for the good old days when the English were able to tell everybody else what to do. The English needed to believe that everybody is dependent on them, it is a central part of the identity of many (though not all) English people. They make the decisions and everybody else needs to know their place in relation to their decision. That's not standing on your own two feet, that is a need for enablers. England is not ready to stand on its own two feet, and does not really believe in sovereignty. It is quite happy to impose its Brexit on Ireland, including the sovereign independent bit, and to take the Scots out against their will. English people will never be heard to complain at the democratic deficit of English elected Tories imposing Westminster decisions on Scotland and Northern Ireland where are are few and no votes for Tories, respectively. The English should be championing Scottish independence because of their love of sovereignty. But they can't, because they are not ready to stand on their own two feet.
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  11.  @gordonmills7798  'You never cease to amaze me with your anti-English/Westminster rhetoric.' I'm not anti-English, but I am against the form of English nationalism that led to Brexit. You don't find it in Scottish, Irish or Welsh nationalism, which is inclusive and civic, not binary and ethnic. As for Westminster, it is a joke. 'You really do believe you have all the answers wrapped up in your oracle of facts and assumptions.' I don't have answers, I only have observations and logic. 'This is your arrogance of which I repeatedly lay at your door each time I correspond with you.' It is me calmly and coldly holding a mirror up to you, and all you are doing is focusing on my lack of emotion and confidence. Sadly, like many English people unaccustomed to he being critiqued, you assume I am somehow 'anti-English'. There is no reason why the English cannot be their own nation, they are as entitled to it as anyone else - my question is when are they going to grasp it, admit it and stand on their own two feet? No answer is ever given. 'The arrogance you portray is equal to blaming all Germans for the Holocaust.' You have lost me here. If you have a guilt complex because your ancestors past, that is your business, but it is not healthy. English nationalists need to be able to acknowledge the good and the bad of their past in equal measure. Then you will no longer feel bound to defend the indefensible but be able to critique and understand yourselves and where you have come from as a people. Most of Europe has gone through this process in recent years, including the Germans. But not the English.
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  12.  @Jack-uy7ie  Read it and weep: https://forums.digitalspy.com/discussion/2212292/spains-foreign-minister-confirms-that-spain-would-not-veto-independent-scotlands-eu-membership
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  13.  @harisadu8998  A comedian? Me? It is demonstrably obvious that the English have a psychological need to be needed as part of their identity. It means they don't have to stand on their own two feet, regardless of whether they can or not. The English are a nation in hiding from themselves.
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  14.  @dm121984  You have my sympathy, and if I were you I would head to Scotland also. Scottish values are not English values, while the Scots are at peace with themselves, it seems like many English people are ill-at-ease with their place in the world. They seem unhappy unless their country is shafting Brussels or Dublin or some other foreigners. They are also quite incoherent. As you point out, they love their ruling privately educated and privileged upper classes to whom they will readily doff their cap but seem to they are against 'the metropolitan elite', who appear to me to be the same people. These are the same ruling classes that have shafted most working and middle class English and everybody else for centuries, ut they love them. Of course, non-English ruling classes are simply beyond the Pale. To remain in England is to accept Tory rule forever. Another reason to move to Scotland. I wish you all the best, whatever you decide.
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  15.  @gordonmills7798  You are just not used to being told the truth. And you never answered my question.
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  16.  @gordonmills7798  Whatever. Times have changed, and the question remains unanswered.
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  17.  @gordonmills7798  'My version of history'. Discuss.
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  18.  @gordonmills7798  I disagree. Two people can interpret the same events differently, depending on their perspective or experience of it. In some cases it could be argued that both perspectives are correct. There is no 'true history', only perspectives.
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  19.  @gordonmills7798  I agree, but it is possible to wrong all the time, as you are so keen to demonstrate.
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  20.  @gordonmills7798  I refer to my previous post.
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  21.  @gordonmills7798  The Irish don't feel they are in any kind of prison through EU membership, which is why EU membership is so consistently popular with the Irish public. Having been part of a the British empire and the United Kingdom, the Irish know exactly what the kind of prison you alluded to looks like. The EU does not fit the bill, sorry. EU oppression the product of the English imagination, the collective projection of a people too scared to leave he right union. The Irish stand on their own two feet in a world of interdependence while the English have yet to manage to have their own devolved assembly, ffs.
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  22.  @gordonmills7798  I didn't forget anything. Every club and organisation has rules regulations. The problem with the English is that because they are not the ones telling the rest of the EU what to do they think they are oppressed. Pathetic.
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  23. 'European countries dont have that luxury' What??
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  24.  @spillarge  It is a rhetorical question based on an ridiculous statement. The UK is one of the least democratic states in Europe, as you well know.
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  25. If the wanted English money they would hardly be looking for independence from Westminster.
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  26. China is the biggest dictatorship on the planet.
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  27.  @olcapone3039  No, it is China.
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  28. Because it means the English will have to stand on their own two feet, and they don't have the confidence to do that yet.
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  29. Scotland would have vastly more 'autonomy' as you call it, as an independent member state of the European Union than it ever could as part of the UK.
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  30. No country in the world has 'true independence' - whatever that is - every country is interdependent on others. The Scots want independence from London, and as a member of the EU, the Scots would be far more independent that it is now.
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  31.  @olcapone3039  Italy and Greece both have more independence than Scotland does as part of the United Kingdom - but it does have more independence than England, because of devolution. It is true that it is harder to leave the EU if the country is part of the Eurozone, but the EU is not a dictatorship like China, and was has nothing to do with the trio you wheeled out - the bolt hole of every conspiracy theorist ever. The only sinking ship in Europe is the UK - it will eventually break up with England eventually rejoining the Single Market and Customs Union.
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  32.  @olcapone3039  But the UK is the one owned by the EU ..it is the only country in Europe with an internal customs border because it left the EU without a plan...
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  33. Apparently there is not a port/harbour deep enough in England for the those nuclear submarines.
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  34. Hey moron - Ireland has a long history of voting again, it is the direct democracy of this sort is a normal part of Irish democracy. Ireland hold constitutional referenda on average every second year and in the last 35 years has held three on abortion, two on divorce, two each on the Nice and Lisbon treaties. The only people with a problem with that are Brexiters with their abhorrence for direct democracy the Irish favour and inexperience of referenda. You don't even have a codified constitution British citizens can vote on!
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  35.  @gordonmills7798  I understand English temperament very well, and I also understand the exceptionalism that comes with it. I understand the role the UK print media played in distracting their readership with ridiculous stories about the EU, allowing Brussels to become the scapegoat for failed domestic policies. I understand how devolution has led to a crisis in the English sense of national identity, as it is a response to the fact that unlike the Scots and the Irish, it has no coherent vision, leadership or outlet. Without those, your national temperment will be deployed without solving the problems the Brexiter toffs exploited to deliver their agenda. A the moment the English voter is happy to be lied to, but the next generation will not be so supine.
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  36.  @gordonmills7798  I read the first few lines and I quit. Its nonsense. It remains to be seen how much longer it will take for the English to grow a pair amd the right union. The sooner the better.
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  37.  @gordonmills7798  Listen here Gordon, it was you who responded to me, not the other way round. Instead being angry at me, perhaps you should engage in some reflection...
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  38.  @gordonmills7798  I understand the English perfectly.
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  39. Spot on, Crocuta.
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  40. What benefits did Ireland lose by not being represented in Westminster?
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  41.  @gordonmills7798  Delusional bullshit. The industrial revolution was a British achievement. The English aren't yet fit to rule themselves.
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  42.  @gordonmills7798  The EU does not make 'all the decisions' for any member state. All member states agree rules where they share a common interest and outside of that, they make separate decisions. All countries maintain their own foregin policies, their own embassies, their own passports, their own militaries, their own tax policies and their own economic policies. Only Brexiters think otherwise.
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  43.  @gordonmills7798  Ireland has no favoured position in the EU. It is normal to support a member state over a third country, otherwise what would the point of the bloc be? The UK overplayed its hand and Brexiters need to accept it.
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  44.  @gordonmills7798  There is no manifesto between Ireland and Greece. Wtf are you rambling about.
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  45.  @gordonmills7798  I have nothing against the English, I'm simply sneering st the incoherence of English nationalism. And I'm not Scottish either.
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  46.  @gordonmills7798  And what side of the border will I be on?
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  47.  @gordonmills7798  In the scenario you paint, England will be forced to stand on its own two feet. Scotland will be seeking it. Scotland will find independence economically difficult initially, but in the long term it will be fine.
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  48.  @gordonmills7798  The EU will not reject Scotland, and it may well be fast tracked into the bloc if it decides to join.
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  49.  @gordonmills7798  I would be surprised if England did anything other than continue its slow decline, if English nationalism continues on its current trajectory. England's problems are at home, not in Brussels. It left the wrong union and took thw whole UK with it. An independent Scotland will face a rough period decoupling its economy from its southern neighbour, but in the long term, once it joins the EU it will prosper quickly.
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  50.  @gordonmills7798  There is precisely no evidence to suggest that the UK will prosper outside of the EU. None. All of the evidence indicates that living standards will rise in Scotland, following a period of readjustment, as a member of the EU.
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